I’m Building an NFT project. Advice?

Recorded: Jan. 19, 2024 Duration: 3:00:43

Player

Snippets

This shit makes me want to, uh, take another 3 month hiatus from here for the prices.
No, I'm not even joking, bro.
That's how annoying that is.
I've been there before.
Yup, definitely been there before.
What sucks is that I already shilled the previous spaces in, like, 3 group chats.
So if I did it again, I'm just an asshole, so I'm like, I can't do that anymore, either.
Yeah, well, guys, support Ruto, support us, post out the space, tweet the space, DM it.
I just damped a few of my friends, our friends, our new friends, so we'll see what comes of
Um, yeah, that's, it's unfortunate, a thousand percent, but unfortunately there's, there's
nothing we can do.
Ruto, it'll be funny, tomorrow morning you're probably gonna go check it out, and it's
gonna work, and you might as well just start it tomorrow morning again, like, just name
it something different.
Cause people already RSVP'd.
No, this is my last Twitter space, I'm literally quitting hosting Twitter spaces after this,
so just shout out to TDA for helping us host the last three, I'm sick of it, I'm so sick
of it, dude.
I was like, yo, let's run some impromptu spaces, these usually turn out well, we did
the impromptu spaces, and they were like, okay, like, they weren't terrible, and then
I actually planned one, a little bit in advance, got, you know, got a pretty decent amount
of reminder set, and then sure enough, Elon was like, nah, you're good on that, Ruto,
you're good on that.
So it's good stuff.
Um, let's get back to, let's get back to what we were talking about, Matt, what's
going on, man?
I know you mentioned earlier that you're just chilling, it seems as though you've
had a long day of spaces as well, what else is going on?
Not really a whole lot, um, I mean, obviously you guys know we're talking with Luca tomorrow,
but other than that, it's like the only other cool thing, I guess, that's happening so
far, other than that, it's just client meetings and telling people and wrestling them down
for signs of contracts.
Nothing crazy.
What was the, how was the process of, because Luca's actually, he's relatively open to doing
like interviews and stuff like that, but I know it's not like entirely the easiest
person to get a hold of, so what was that process like, and what are you looking forward
to the most about it?
So the process was basically, we got him on one of our spaces during the whole, like
when I was running my own spaces for a minute, we got him on for an interview, basically did
well with the interview and asked unique questions, so he was like, hey, you know, I'd
love to talk with you guys again, kind of told him a little bit about what we're doing
behind the scenes, um, before, you know, before we went public or whatever, and, uh,
we just set it up for a follow-up conversation through his, uh, through his, like, assistant,
so it worked out pretty good.
It was, it was pretty seamless, but it takes time, right?
Like, cause you're working through somebody to get their schedule, like somebody else's
schedule.
So I was the only rough part.
That's true.
Do you, do you have, like, do you have questions ready to go already?
Bossa, Bossa, you know, I, I, I did the BD work, right?
And then I, and then I handed the keys over to the, uh, to the kingdom to bossa and I was
like, Hey, listen to your, put the show together.
Let's you know, let's talk about some commonalities that we have, you know, let's focus on some
topics that we can both, you know, kind of, um, go through.
And then we also got, uh, Leon coming from unfungible tomorrow.
So should be, I should be a good one.
I'm excited.
That's going to be a really dope one.
Andrew is excited to top in there as well.
Um, brutal.
Oh, I have a space with Steve tomorrow with, with Steven Scott from a 16 Z with the book.
Well, listen, Matt, if you want to stop being friends with Andrew, then like I, I'm totally,
uh, I'm totally on with that as well.
We'll have like, we'll have some, we'll have some panel room, so we're keeping it pretty
open right now.
It's not a lot of come though.
I don't know if anyone else, welcome, brutal.
I don't know.
There's something, there's something about me I need you to know, uh, which is that I
could dish it, but I can't take it.
I think, uh, I think breads wants to talk about marketing again.
So did you not know I was, I literally do marketing all day.
I was like, why does this guy know so much technical shit?
Uh, and then I found out behind the bozo.
I'm going to say, I'm going to say, let's see if he shows up, let's see.
Fingers crossed.
Just hit him up.
So we can just get, so we can just get absolutely wrecked with knowledge.
That'll be fun.
You know what?
I think he would, I think he would show up.
I think he would show up.
Honestly, he's been super, super active on spaces lately, much more than I've seen
him previously.
And it's actually been really surprising to see actually, um, it's super cool though.
Super cool.
So, okay.
Um, I just want to give a huge shout out to everyone who tuned in tonight.
We had some technical difficulties at the start.
The old Twitter space link, rugged.
That seems to be a common theme lately with spaces, which is totally fine.
But I do want to say thank you guys for tuning in.
Huge shout out to everyone who's up here, um, speaking for the topic tonight.
I wrote on the original tweet and I say, I said, um, I says,
I said that GM, I'm building a project.
What's the best advice you give someone starting from scratch if they want to compete with
the top projects?
Let's dive into it.
And so the question at hand really is I hear a lot of people who give takes on like, okay,
this project did that, that's bad.
This project did good.
That's did this.
That's good.
This project is doing well because of XYZ.
But then I always think to myself, okay, if I were to start a project and if I wanted
to start a project, let's say in the next, you know, six to eight months, um, and I wanted
to build it from scratch.
I wanted to hear from a lot of people, what their thoughts were on kind of the process
and really try to get a better understanding of like people's a experience or be what their
opinion on the matter, like what they might be wanting to do on that side as well.
Because I think it's just super interesting.
Everyone has an opinion about how projects should operate or like, what's a good one?
What's a bad one?
So I wanted to have like a really a room full of people kind of giving their own personal
takes on the matter.
And then I, you know, I could throw in mind here and there as well.
Yeah, I think it's gonna be an interesting conversation.
I don't know if it's gonna be a good one, but I'm hoping it is.
So what's going on, Andrew?
I wanted to say what's up to you.
If you guys don't know the homie Andrew already, I'm sure you do this, this goddamn flightless
bird is all over the timeline lately on every single spaces that I've seen for the last
like two weeks, mega bullish, Andrew, my brother, how you doing, man?
Doing well, doing well.
I will say this, the flapping is definitely an effect.
And I will keep using that word, the flapping for however long we are flapping for good
Um, everyone, please, please retweet the room.
There's only nine reposts and there's 29 people in here.
I'm not good at math.
It's not my floor today, but some of that doesn't really add up.
We'd appreciate it if you guys put out the space and we will get started soon.
As we said, we would love your guys opinion, your feedback on how to build a project from
And Ruto, I assume the theme is obviously within web three, right?
Yeah, I'm not going to go down the rabbit hole of like, you know, micro sass products
or like, you know, e-commerce stuff.
That's a whole other animal and it's yeah, we're not going to go down that road.
That's a rough one.
But don't, but I will say if you were going to start a web three product and let's say
it's like a character IP based one, a PFP, whatever, and part of your like roadmap or something
that you wanted to do and it was like, build software within the project or like whatever.
Then sure, we could talk about that too, but yeah, we're not going to do like e-commerce
or something like that.
Unless Luca comes up here and then he's like, yo, let me spit some straight fire drop shipping
e-commerce stuff.
And then I got you and I was like, okay, yeah, let's turn this into that.
But yeah, anyways, I'm rambling already.
I want to pass it on to the homie breads and say, what's up, breads, how you doing, man?
You've also been absolutely crushing with spaces lately.
You have, you hosted a really spicy one last night, actually, I'm glad you made it
through the night.
How you doing, man?
Um, are you talking about two nights ago, not to make sure I get confused, but I don't even
know what day it is.
If I get confused, oh, X bread a lot.
So I want to make sure, you know, you got to, um, yeah, we're talking about like Jeremy
Jeremy horn controversy.
Listen, I don't know if that was spicy, but, um, you know, that's if that's considered
Then yeah, I think that one.
Well, it was a great, yeah, honestly, it was one of the best spaces I've ever attended.
So no pressure.
Just know that I've, what was that?
You're welcome.
You're like, should I change the title?
Dude, I don't even remember the first title, that shit was so long and I was like, please
change the title.
It was like interoperability to the structure of TXN transactions, transactions, some shit
like that.
Uh, listen, I'm just here to learn how to be a founder.
Uh, I just want to build a project from scratch and I just don't know.
So I'm here for Chulo and that's really all I have to say about that.
Thanks for having me.
Appreciate you, man.
Cause you just asked the question.
Um, I really want to be a founder and I want to build one from scratch and I don't know
how to do it.
Someone teach me.
That's, that's, I think that's a question that a lot of people have, man.
And so that's hopefully what I was trying to do.
I even tagged a bunch of founders, but you know what, they're probably sitting around.
They're like, Oh, well, you know that he never started the space.
I don't see a space started because the last one rugs, but you know what?
I'm not going to keep it hammering on that cause it's just going to bother me and I'm
going to have to put in another zen in and I, I don't have time for that.
Andrew, go for it.
I was actually, Oh, sorry.
Go for it.
You got it, bro.
Well, I'm just going to say quickly.
Yeah, well, I get, I get left.
I don't know about you guys, but, um, my entire career, I don't think I've been ghosted more
times than in web three.
Um, yeah, it really is a detriment to my mental health.
Go for it, Andrew.
Yeah, I look at the list of the founders you tagged some of them.
I have some questions for, uh, hopefully they can answer the questions.
I was just honestly curious to know from a web three perspective from the founders that
you tagged, um, how to scale a software products.
I just wanted to know.
I was really curious.
About many software products on industry and like Google speech is not one of them.
I want to know how you guys scale it.
It's like just out of curiosity.
Our software product is actually a customized notion template.
Um, and so yeah, we're really going to scale that out.
We're going to put cool gifts on it and it's going to sell like hotcakes on it.
Only the, only the, I guess the, you know, the OGs know what we're talking about here.
Can we, can we continue the rest of the space like this where we have to answer generalities
and not talk about a single topic?
I think it would be pretty interesting.
Like we just, we have enough smart people on the listening board where we could dodge
the effective questions with slight insult pretty well, I think.
I don't know.
We'll see.
I believe it to be able to do that.
I think we could honestly do it.
Um, I'm feeling a little fidgety though.
I just recently had tried to stop, um, nicotine and like smoking babes.
Cause I was like, listen, I looked at myself in the mirror, blew a fat, a fat cloud.
And I'm like, you're, you're a grown adult now.
Um, I think we got to put this down 2024 seems like a good way to do it.
But I'm 24 hours deep into it and I have been rubbing my shoulders.
I have been sweating.
Um, it's like 72 degrees in my, my, my place and it feels like it's 50.
So we're just riding tonight.
Um, we're really trying to push through, we're really trying to push through this shit right
So this is your support line.
Yeah, no, no, I, I literally need you guys, um, so that I don't relapse.
So this is, this is great, but I do, you know what, I do want to pass the mic over
to my good friend, Sal Sal.
What is going on?
Um, we have been on a trillion spaces lately as well.
Um, I thought, you know what, I only came here because Andrew said that he's changing
the space to behind the bozo.
Everybody's naming their spaces behind the something, but like behind the bozo, like
like I'm sold, um, dude, I'm, I feel like, you know, one hour is like a thousand years
and discord slash web three days.
And I'm just like, I'm beat, but I came out here tonight cause I saw all the homies in
the crowd.
Um, you know what?
It's crazy.
You're actually, you picked a really good topic because this is actually quite attainable
in web three, but I will say some stuff later on that I feel like could be some pretty
solid tactics.
Um, but just because it works for a certain project in, I guess builders, it doesn't really
work for everybody else.
So, you know, should I change the title to, should I change the title to I'm starting
an entity project?
No, I like behind the bozo for sure.
Behind the bozo.
And then, yeah, then we just switch and it's just, um, it's just breads and Matt hosting
Are you taking shots bro?
No, no, no, no, no.
They were supposed to be in direct, not direct.
I mean, I'm pretty much, I'm breads.
Do you want to go do your own space with me?
No, dude, don't do that.
Seriously.
I literally don't have any friends and I need okay.
The backpedaling.
Uh, yeah, Matt, I think that might sound, uh, pretty good, pretty, pretty, pretty good.
That was, that was great breads.
That was great.
I'm going to pass it over to Chulo, Chulo, my brother, man.
I've noticed you've been a lot more active lately and it warms, it warms my little ruto
heart, man.
So how you doing, man?
Hey, I'm doing good, man.
Um, look, I felt for the clickbait ruto.
Um, I really liked the space title and I was like, Oh, like I want to talk about this
is a good topic to talk about.
Um, so just excited to hear what people say.
Yeah, I just put at the end advice because yeah, I'm just going to let everyone know that
I'm building an NFT project and um, yeah, I just want to hear people's advice on this to
be honest.
Uh, I want to go over to phase and say, what's up.
And then I think let's honestly, like, let's actually, let's hop into this.
Like I actually genuinely want to hear people's advice and just cause I know we have some
people even up here who have experience with it.
So what's up phase?
How you doing?
I'm good, ruto.
I appreciate the space.
Just came to get whitelist for your new project.
So let me know when that drops.
There's actually no whitelist.
Um, I'm doing, okay, I got to stop doing it.
That's already laughing.
No, listen, I'm sick and tired of this.
I come, I'm in your discord.
I'm making fan art on their 24 seven and like when whitelist literally, I'm fucking sick
and tired of the shit.
So I'm going to tell you guys right now, okay, cause I actually want to dive into this now.
Um, I have truly considered building an NFT project or starting an NFT project for probably
two years now.
I think I legitimately had multiple discussions.
I even had friends.
They used to come over.
We used to have like little brainstorm sessions.
We used to talk about this over and over.
So this all started probably early 2022.
I've been an NFT since middle of 2021.
So like summer of 2021.
Um, and I have thought this through multiple times.
I have literally, I have literally gone to my loved ones and family and have brought
it up as well throughout the last couple of years.
And I have been sitting on the sidelines watching at this point, what feels like thousands
of projects.
I have analyzed research, deep dived into successes, failures, um, I've researched founders and
marketing strategies and drip campaigns and different types of creatives.
And I've always thought that this time would come sooner than later.
And maybe those listening in, if you're not listening in, then maybe you'll hear it later.
But I think I'm going to say that I want to start one this year.
I think that's, that's the goal of mine.
So go ahead, Andrew, what are your thoughts, man?
What do you got off your chest?
Do I have two questions?
The first one, have you ever released something before?
And are you okay with the stigma of releasing one and then having to kind of bear that
Cause it is a burden to certain extent after you, if you, if when you release something.
No, I, so it's funny that you asked that because I have been brought, people have proposed starting
projects with me multiple, multiple, multiple times, um, in the last couple of years.
And I have always said no, because, uh, I told myself, I never wanted any sort of background
or past that people can look to and be like, well, you did this and it was a failure.
So like, why should we trust you with this?
Um, and so I never did that.
I don't have any projects.
I never minted anything.
I've never did any of that, any of that, literally nothing.
So I've even watched what I said, man, because like, there's no one that really knows me
IRL here except for a few people.
Um, and like, I'm very, for the most part, like politically correct.
I curse a lot, but that's because I'm Colombian and I was raised by a bunch of Colombian
New Yorkers.
Like that's just in me, but I don't say anything that's like wildly offensive.
I don't talk shit to people.
I don't like, you know, talk behind people's backs.
I don't do none of that stuff, um, because I thought that this day could potentially come
if it were, if it were to happen.
Yeah, I've also asked myself that question too in the mirror for times, if I would
ever start something and the answer for me has always been no, um, I won't start something
and this is my opinion.
I've told Matt this too.
I think I've also told bread this that I wouldn't do it unless I know it's almost kind of a shoe
in that I'd be top 30.
If I wouldn't be top 30 with my current team, current knowledge base, current everything,
I wouldn't do it.
And right now at this moment, I can confidently say, do I think I'd be 30 all time NFTs
at this moment right now here today?
With that, with that conviction that I wouldn't be, I wouldn't bother starting it.
I'd rather assist the space with infrastructure than start something because we don't need
another founder.
We need better products.
So that's kind of where I'm at with this.
I mean, you know, everyone's got their own take.
This is just me speaking.
That's a, that's a point.
That last one is a banger.
Like I don't want to be a founder.
Like I don't think we need more projects.
We need better products.
And I couldn't agree with that more.
And so yeah, I don't take something like this, like very lightly.
And that's why I've always said it.
And I've said this on multiple spaces recorded ones, where people will come up on stage
like, yeah, we're starting this project, like you guys should check it out.
You know, we've all been there, right?
A random like no name project, no one's ever heard of, they come up on stage and try to
show the stuff.
And then they're like, what do you guys think you should check us out?
And I'm like, and I'm usually brutally honest.
I'm like, look, dude, like I appreciate the show.
But I've told people time and time again, why on earth would you want to start a project
unless you're doing it for fun.
It's like, you know, it's just you and your friends and like, you're not looking to make
millions of dollars, there's like 500 of them and it's like free mint or something like that.
That's fine.
But to me, it's like, why would you ever want to start something if you don't want to or
plan to be the best or at least in the discussion like walking amongst giants like that's maybe
that's just the competitive nature in me, grown up, but I don't I refuse to start
something, build something, do anything unless I'm really good at it and will be good at it.
So I'm the same boat as you, man.
I've literally thought about this for like years and years.
It's scary, right?
Like the thing is, it's scary because you know, the whole Zagabond thing I feel for him,
like what happened obviously sucks, whether he did or he did not.
But the fact that it came to blow up in his face is never a positive thing.
And you know, maybe he's deployed three projects before.
Maybe he hasn't.
We don't know.
Obviously, people think he has.
And that's obviously what matters too.
But I mean, imagine real being here for the next five years, because we're super early
into this, and you release something and it doesn't go away in corner plan.
And then your corporate job because eventually the space is gonna go full time corporate.
It just is the natural progression of business, right?
And they're gonna say brutal.
So in 2023, you launched something or 2024, you launched something, I forgot the year,
and it did this, and you didn't fall through with it, and it sucked.
So is your experience in marketing actually that good if your project four years ago sucked
or you didn't market?
You know what I mean?
Like, if you're a good marketer, you hope you can market a product.
I'll give an example.
When I buy a book, right?
In the books about marketing, and there's fucking four reviews, I'm like, this person know what
the fuck he's talking about?
There's four reviews, right?
If you're good at marketing, your book would have more than fucking four reviews on it,
Use your tactics.
You talk about in the book to market your actual book, right?
Yeah, dude.
And I had a discussion with someone lately, I'm not gonna tell like name their names,
but they on a social media platform, they had in their bio, like web3marketer.
And they came to me saying that they wanted to sell a course on like web3 marketing, or
starting a web3 based podcast.
And then so I asked them like, okay, well, what experience do you have with web3?
If I were to ask you, what are the top, you know, 10 projects upcoming?
And who are their founders?
Could you name them?
And they were like, no.
And I was like, okay, have you ever built any web3 products or been part of teams that have
done so they're like, no.
And so I was like, okay, well, why on earth would you try to sell a product about being
like an expert on something when you've not done any of those things?
And so they're like, well, that's what I'm trying to do.
I'm trying to build experience with it.
Okay, so you kind of see my point here that I would never want to go down the route.
And to your point, I think if you go and try to build a web3 project, and it does relatively
decent, as in like it's gotten a ton of eyes on it, you've been able to scale out socials,
you were part of the planning and execution from ideation to execution of like, multiple
things from design to, you know, implementation, all of that is like a net positive, right?
So like, if you're going to talk to a company, and they saw that you did something decently
substantial, all the experience you gain from that would actually be good.
But again, if it's trash, and it's terrible, and you got flooded, and people called you
a scammer, then obviously, that's not good either.
But I'm rambling now, I want to pass it to breads breads, what's your take on everything?
Uh, everything, I don't know if I could bullet down this quick.
But I, I wanted to get a little guidance on how you want to approach the conversation.
Do you want to have this as like, you know, people giving you advice asking you questions?
Because I mean, you know, the first thing for me is kind of like, what your why, you
know, what, why do you want to have a project?
And that's such an essential aspect of it's like, the most important thing about a project
is the founder, most important thing about a founder is his motivation.
So I, you know, I don't know if you wanted to just have tidbits of advice, or, you know,
maybe we could start talking about, oh, okay, what do you want to do?
Oh, how do you go about doing this?
Oh, you need a product?
Here's where you should go.
So yeah, that's what I like.
I like both.
I like both routes, to be honest.
And I think me being in a seat where people ask me those questions, I think that's beneficial
for anyone listening as well.
And then on top of that, if you want to go down the route of like, okay, well, let's
say, and I'm going to pretend to be kind of naive with all this, just for the sake of like,
you know, educational purposes.
So like, if I wanted to say, well, breads, maybe you have a little bit of experience,
like what would be your advice, if I just, where do I start?
Like what would be, what would be step one, if I wanted to build a project?
And again, I'm going to come from this angle as like someone really naive, just for the
sake of the discussion.
But then if you had any actual questions, like, well, Ruto, if you generally want to
start a project, like, where would you start?
Or, you know, what were, what are the top three?
What's your why?
Like everything you just said.
I think that's kind of the direction I want to go.
Hopefully that helped answer your question.
Well, it is.
And I think this kind of conversation might be hard to have with so many people
involved because you're going to get to throw it over to all the hands.
But really, you're the one who's going to be like answering these questions.
So I like I'll just, you know, I'll ask you and then I'll let you decide how you
want to run it, but I'd love to hear, you know, what's your why and what are you
trying to accomplish or how are you trying to accomplish your why?
Because I think that'll influence how you, you know, you start from the inside
of work your way out.
Yeah, for sure.
I think, I think for me, my why would be, and maybe anyone else could answer
this too, if just hypothetically, maybe even Matt, Matt's the founder himself.
So I would love to hear his why.
For me, my why is I have worked professionally for almost a decade.
I have worked full time in Web3 for since 2021.
I have seen projects come and go.
I have been part of Web3 startups time and time again as well.
And I've kind of come to the point in my career where I love building products
and I love being part of teams and stuff like that.
But I've also never really truly worked at like, let's call it like a dream job.
And even if I did, I marinated all this a little bit.
Even if I did, I would always feel as though I'm just helping build someone
else's dream, if that makes sense.
And so if I wanted to start a project, I want to because A, I feel like
I'm competent enough to do it, but also B, because I have this creative
outlet that is so like, easy for people to come into with with Web3.
And I think building out like either a character IP or just a brand in general,
like a branded product from scratch in Web3 just sounds like a shit
ton of fun and something I feel as though I could be pretty good at.
And ultimately, my goal would be just to add another, you know,
good project to a list of like a shrinking list of projects
that are kind of fizzling out.
I don't know if that's a good enough why.
Maybe I need to write one down and just stare at it every single day
for whenever someone asked me this question.
I'm very conscious of when founders it.
I think there's like a it's very easy to get enamored with the founder life.
And I hear founders talk about all the time how bad and hard it is.
But from the outside, looking in, you know, it's glamorous.
You're in the spotlight in Web3.
And I'm always very conscious of founders who say
and I'm not talking about you, but I'm talking about, you know,
when I when I do talk to founders who say, you know, I think I could do it
and I could do something different.
But to me, that's not a good enough like found it like you need
a foundational interest of like even just like improving the space.
You know, OK, great. But how do you want to do that?
You know, yeah, I have a bigger why.
But I can't like I'm trying to answer it without giving.
Let's just say like giving away exactly what it is I wanted to do,
if that makes sense.
So I definitely have a why that's probably stronger,
that it's a better answer than me being like, I think I could be good at this.
So, yeah, I'm just trying not to be like give too much information about it.
And then people like hold me to certain shit, if that makes sense.
So. But yeah, that's good, dude.
Andrew, what do you got, man?
And then I want to pass it over some hands.
Yeah, my thing is more of a statement opposed to a question.
Breds, those are amazing questions.
I think overall founders that are listening to this as well, not just up here,
need to document what you just said.
Absolutely great points.
I do want to say, though, Ruto, so we you and I have a tendency
and sometimes, you know, Matt, as well, we say the quiet thing out loud
when it needs to get said for the right reason.
So we'll ask questions that people need to be asked, especially during AMA's,
which obviously people do respect because they are respectful questions
and respectful tones.
But, Ruto, like being a founder, you probably
maybe in the future wouldn't have liberty to those things.
Whereas a founder in my head acts like the quarterback of a team.
You say certain things.
You can't say certain things.
You have to watch what you say and be more careful.
Imagine if you're a founder and you're taking shots
or asking questions about XYZ founders gaming products or their IP brand
or their scaling of this or their fake software or whatever it is.
You probably now are going to be under some heat
and your project takes a backlash because of it.
The way that a quarterback would not say those things about, you know,
another quarterback, another team, another division,
because those things come back and haunt you.
But other than that, though, I mean, it's always tons of discussion.
Get to dance.
Yeah, dude, that's and trust me, I feel as though if you did want to start a project,
if anyone did, I feel like it would be worthwhile to like hire someone
to go back and look through either tweets or pretty much all socials.
I think hiring like someone who handles PR shit.
I was going to say that, too.
Yeah, that's super important, man, because do you guys remember Last Bull Cycle
where like these founders were coming out and like maybe it was a hype myth
and then people found tweets or Facebook comments
of like them saying the wildest shit ever
and then completely flooded the project, basically, to do like I got Canada.
I mean, you got you got socially got canned
a month ago for some racist claims on his ex.
Dude, yeah, that was crazy because they said all that shit
like not even that long ago, like it was like three years ago.
Yeah, it was like two years ago or something wild and they still got hired.
So, yeah, I'm not saying that I have said any crazy racial stuff
or anything like that, because I definitely never have.
But yeah, you would say if you're a project founder,
definitely try and hire someone or bring someone in
who might be able to like comb through some of your socials
to make sure that when you were like 14 years old,
you didn't say something wild on Myspace or something.
I don't know.
But yeah, let's go pass it over to Sal
and then to Chulo and then over to Bitcoin, man.
Go ahead, Sal.
Yeah, I do. I wanted to actually comment.
I had a random space last night with Andrew
and I was like the truth of Andrew Forte.
You all remember that shit when like in the bull run, everyone just
if you wanted to find a founder, you just had a space.
The truth of this person, the truth behind like it was just so toxic.
Anyways, I thought that was kind of funny.
I wanted to actually say something, Ruto, I think you definitely
I think you are more than capable.
I've seen your skill set since I started the space and like 21 with you.
I've seen your skill set since then.
And I do think that you would be really good for as a founder.
I mean, it's kind of crazy
just to see a lot of founders that actually are not ready.
Like the more that I had calls with them, the more I realize
it's a lot of them.
I don't really understand the expectation of what it takes to be a founder of Web3.
And I'm only saying that because it's not like Web2.
Like you have to realize things are really it's really small here.
You're all you're dealing with cryptocurrency.
You know, everything what you say is literally recorded.
What you say, everyone's just keeping tabs on you. Right.
And one thing you also have to consider is I think like being a founder
just when I'm seeing other people is like just the added to ability.
Like shit just change changes here in one month.
Like one month is equivalent to like a year.
What actually happens in like Web2.
But yeah, I think that's like I think I mean, even advice.
I mean, like if there was one piece of advice I'd give to anyone,
I think that you have to be realistic with your your output, because I mean,
I've had founders be like, we want to launch a gaming project
and it's going to come next year. Next year's you buy.
Like people are not going to be interested in your product.
You know, you don't have the funds like what are you going to do?
But yeah, I think that's like I think that a lot of founders
don't realize like you're selling out, you're you're you're creating something
that is answering the problem to something.
And that's that's every found every founder is creating a project
or a business because they are solving an issue.
And that's how they make money.
That's just how it is.
It's very simple. But I mean, you can't just have you can have great ideas.
But like there's a lot of people have great ideas, but it's not realistic.
Yeah, there's also a bit of luck that goes into it, too, because let's say
you had a bad idea, but you were the right place, right time.
Even that can still work out.
We've seen that time and time again.
We've seen amazing products or ideas or services
that were launched at the wrong time.
And those don't do very well either, you know.
And then sometimes lightning strikes and you're in the right place
at the right time with a great product, a great brand service.
And everything just works out amazingly.
We've also seen that.
So yeah, timing and luck definitely play a huge substantial role
in any single business, to be honest.
So I think it's definitely a good take for sure.
So I want to pass over to Chulo, my brother, go for it, man.
So I want to go back to Brett's question about why.
I think what's important, too, that, you know, we haven't really touched on,
is to inspire people in the in like all like every in every aspect that we do.
Right. So like the reason we're here, we like we somehow
were inspired to get into Web 3.
Right. So like me personally, like Borde of Yacht Club is what caught my attention.
And then a few of my artist friends telling me.
Right. And they inspired me in a way.
Right. By like just showing off their art and then in a way like bringing
a community within themselves. Right.
But I don't want to focus on the community aspect of everything.
I think inspiration is important, especially since like the product is the NFT,
which is like the art behind it. Right.
That's what most people are selling.
And so, yeah, you know, inspiration goes a long way.
And like, you know, trying to be remembered for something that you create
in the space is important. That's why we like.
That's why what is it called?
Like CryptoPunks has like such a lasting legacy here.
And same with Borde of Yacht Club. Right.
Like I think they inspired everything that's come
and they'll only continue to inspire to do better. Right.
And even like this this hate and love that they get from other people,
it's like let's just focus on the hate for a second,
because obviously love inspires everybody.
But the hatred people have for these projects make people want to do better.
Right. So I think like hand in hand inspiration from hate or love is amazing.
So, yeah, that's my take.
No, that's good. And I think what you said really resonated with me.
In my opinion, I think the best products, services or whatever it may be.
It it's all about experience. Right.
Whether it solves a problem for you, then that you have a good experience with it.
Or if it's just like a brand, right?
If you just enjoy purchasing stuff from a company because you enjoy the brand,
you enjoy the experience that you get from being part
or being associated with that brand.
That's the reason why, you know, your your your favorite.
As a kid, you liked wearing certain shoes or certain brands or your favorite.
You got a favorite Pokemon or whatever it was. Right.
It's because all these products or brands instill a sense of like emotion
or experience in you.
So that's definitely part of the process of building out good products,
even if it is just like an entity.
So I love that you said that and legacy more than anything.
Like, I think it's really hard for someone
to really like ingrain their name within the Web3 space.
I think right now it's the it's the best time to do it
because we are cheesy enough to say, but we are so early
that if you do build something existential, like your name is literally like etched
in the Web3 like history books moving forward.
You know, like I think in 10 years, we'll have a lot of people know who Lucca is.
A lot of people will know who Gordon Goner is.
Like a lot of people know these people are because they've established
like a legacy through a brand that they've built.
So I think that's definitely part of it, too.
I want to pass it over to Bitcoin, man.
What's going on, man?
I don't think we've ever spoken before,
but I appreciate you coming up here, man. How you doing?
Yeah, what's up?
So basically just want to start off with
the reason I'm here is because I guess this space popped up
because breads was talking.
I don't think I'd land here any other way.
And what he was talking about, though, why is
is totally on point.
That's that's really the main focus right there.
You got to because without that, you're not going to have the direction.
But as for the advice, I would say for building an NFT project.
Don't like I'm not saying don't build on Web three.
But I just honestly, I'm sorry.
And if these have use cases, but like I ain't seeing them.
That's not what it's supposed to be about.
Like that's just the sad truth.
You know what I mean?
Like it's not that at all.
It's not useful like that, but it could be used for other things.
Like I can give you an example.
So like it could be used like, oh, you buy this
whatever clothing piece of clothing and now you have a certificate
that says, oh, it's legit.
That's your NFT. OK, that's cool.
You know, something like that.
And then like, oh, when you're trading it or whatever,
someone else might steal the shirt, but they're not the rightful owner.
You know what I mean?
So now it's like a black market thing or whatever.
So yeah, that's what I would say.
I would just say reconsider like and just like maybe it's hot or whatever.
But there's other ways you can build, you know, and block chain in the space.
So that's all I have to say.
I think that's I think that's an absolutely fair take, to be honest.
If you were to I think anyone who's ever asked me, even even like
my quote unquote normie friends, they're like, hey, I see cryptos doing good.
Or like, you know, I hear NFTs are kind of popping off again.
Like, you know, what's a good NFT I should buy?
I just tell them straight up like don't like I tell a lot of my friends
like don't buy any NFTs, man, if I could be completely honest with you,
I don't think you should unless it's of course it's like one of my friends
with incredibly disposable income, then I'll be like, sure, like you check these out.
But, you know, majority of people I would recommend not buying NFTs, to be honest.
And being a founder of one is even crazier to be like that's you're basically
walking in to probably the most stressful anxiety ridden like time of your life
by like willingly wanting to go and be a founder of a goddamn NFT collection.
Like, that's it's got to be the most insane thing to want to do.
And I want to actually ask Matt his position on that as to why all the bad things aligned.
What made you want to like ask yourself, should I start a project?
You know what? Yeah, I know this is going to suck kind of pretty bad, but I'm going to do it anyway.
A couple of different reasons for the most like personal reason for me was there's so much wrong
with this like evolutionary technology that like why can't we take it to new levels from a digital
collectible standpoint and why are slow like Nick and I phase down there have just talked about this.
It's just like why is there so many bad people here?
And why can't we show people how to move in the right direction with whatever they want to build?
Right. That's the number one thing for sure.
And then, of course, you know, like what we're working on specifically, we just saw a very large
opportunity in a basically dormant market that's being dominated by a single player.
Right. So obviously, in business, that's exactly what you look for.
But those are the two things that drive me is like, first, I know I can show somebody something
and if we can show what right looks like and we have more and more projects doing it the right way,
then hopefully the space continues to grow.
And we have people that are building, you know, more unique things than what even what we're doing.
Right. So I like the fact that we're early in the technology phase and the adoption phase.
That's that's really it.
Yeah, I think that's super fair.
I think you mentioned exactly what my thoughts were as well,
which was, I think there's something missing here.
And if we're looking at it from just like, you know, a business or marketing standpoint,
then filling in these gaps in like kind of niche markets is usually
tends to do well if you're like confident enough to execute on those things.
So like, I think you you said that pretty well as well, Matt.
But let's Andrew go for it, brother, your co-host, man.
So you can say and do whatever you want, to be honest.
I appreciate that.
I do want to be respectful to the hands as well, Matt.
The two things are not the two things that I would say is the first one is unpopular opinion.
I don't think, you know, everybody wants or needs to create a NFT or a token to change the direction
of where we're currently going.
If that's in your heart or hearts, do you do to feel compelled to do?
But same time, you don't need to do those things to change industry.
You can change industry in any way you'd like.
Content, education, you know, real software stuff, whatever it is, take your niche.
Go ahead into it.
And then, you know, there's something that I do want to throw out here as well.
Obviously, you know that we're all pretty bullish up here on the creator economy.
I think it's just beginning.
I think the biggest brands next 25 years as a boomers kind of go away.
I mean, you know, their time's up, right?
Probably going to be.
Matt, it's the way of life.
We'll eventually get there too one day, but it's the way of life.
It's natural.
It's natural progression.
So you want your grandkids to be like, yeah, shoot, shoot.
Go, go, go.
I want my grandkids to be better than I was.
I want them to be better than me.
And they should, if we get that far, because, you know, evolution is always
continuing getting better.
But yeah, so creator economies will be big in the next 10 years.
Biggest brands are going to probably be creator-led.
Obviously, like, we've seen this now.
Creators that can create content are becoming business guys.
And then business guys like Matt and I are starting to create content.
So we're seeing that middle ground.
And I think if you can get in that line between the both of them,
you're absolutely going to dominate.
And I think Breds is also good at this too, because Breds and I
have had multiple conversations.
And he's pretty business savvy.
Like, I could say about Breds.
He's pretty business savvy.
He doesn't give the impression that he is, but I promise he is.
So guys like that, gals like that too, like Sal,
they kind of go that midline are going to scale.
And my question is, now after rambling a lot,
is that would you ever create not a project, but a token gated or a token
gated, like something for free that empowers your creator economy brand on the internet.
Like maybe it's free.
There's 100 of them.
There's 10 of them.
There's 1,000 of them.
But they're like Ruto passes that become your true circle.
They're free.
But they get access for XYZ things.
And it helps empower and jumpstart your creator brand for the next 25 years.
Because if I was to ever create something, it'd be free.
I'll even do it on a fucking polygon.
So it's $0.06 to mint it.
Want to complain about $0.06?
I'll buy you a coffee.
And then it empowers and jump starts my brand.
That's the way I would do it.
But I mean, obviously, Ruto, this question is for you.
And that kind of helped establish his community there.
And I think that's an incredible route to go.
I think that's amazing.
But personally, I am not.
I don't think the goal of mine has ever been to like, OK, I
want to be like this next level content creator.
I want to build like I didn't want people to rally around me, for example.
Like I didn't want a community that was based around like me as like a person
or like the content I made.
I have found, especially recently in my career, that I genuinely love the ideation
and building process for products or brands.
And that's something I'm incredibly passionate about.
Me building a following on on X or Twitter or whatever is just like a byproduct
of me finding those interests and talking about it.
So like the fact that I have, you know, let's say 11,000 followers,
it's not because I've gone the route of like, OK, what am I going to tweet
today? That's going to give me 200 more followers.
Or like, how do I go about my day to scale my my my my reach?
Like, I don't ever go about making content for the sake of like gaining
popularity or like for vanity metrics.
I think I just speak my mind on things that are interesting to what I want
to learn about. And then I just for whatever reason gain followers because of it.
So when people I know like content creation is like a massive thing.
And I actually would would tell anybody if you wanted to network
and make a career or like do whatever out of it, content creation is like the
fastest way to do that and the best way to do that.
But I don't think necessarily anybody who's creating content just because
like they want more followers, I don't think those people are going to make it
to be honest. They're not.
They're not because they're they're in love with the vanity instead of being
in love with the game and the actual pursuit of pursuit of doing
when you're in love with the pursuit of doing.
I mean, the sky is is absolutely the limit.
And we're like the you're right.
The concept of being a creator is is now, I think, going to be more powerful
now that now than ever.
And I think people are obsessed with being a Web 3 content creator.
I'll kind of give you a quick news flasher.
If you guys didn't know your account past Web 3 is not going anywhere.
Web 3 can end in the next 10 years.
Your account is still going to exist on social media.
So you're going to still have that following of that empowerment of stuff
you've done the last 10 years.
So you should be creating content for the next 25 years of your life
and not just next six months because you want some fucking shitty brand
to sponsor your stuff.
Like there's a complete different perspective shift.
And I think we need to get there.
Like I hope this empowers you guys start creating content for the next
25 years, which means you shouldn't be in a rush to go viral.
You do want to post about your life, though.
I think it's positive.
And I just think about the people who I who are my favorite people to follow
or like watch their quote unquote content.
Those people that are my favorite, they they make awesome content,
not because like they want to be a great content creator,
but more because the things that they talk about are important,
valuable or super interesting.
And if you notice the people who my favorite people to follow
with a ton of followers, let's say 80,000, 150,000,
they're literally never on Twitter spaces.
They don't drop.
They don't make videos.
They don't make, you know, they don't make pretty pictures with like,
you know, GM's and stuff like that.
Like my and I'm not bashing those people will do that
because I think it's fucking dope still and you're having fun.
That's great.
But I think my favorite people are the ones who are just doing
really important or valuable shit.
That's interesting.
And that's why they have a lot of followers.
But yeah, let's get let's pass it around the room
because I'm curious to hear people's thoughts on just everything.
I want to pass it to Sal.
Actually, Sal might even make you co-host
because I don't know what happened at TDA.
I think they saw that I was going to make a project.
They're like, dude, get out of here.
We're not associating with you anymore.
So I'm just kidding.
I'm sure Expresso is probably just dizzy right now.
So it's all good.
Go for it, Sal.
Well, let's get a glitch because you know,
glitches that every time you turn into that was smooth.
The truth about Sal, go for it.
Someone changed the damn title.
I do love what you said here.
Well, actually, let's rewind it back.
The first thing that someone talked about was,
I think it was Bitcoin man.
When he spoke about how NFTs shouldn't be the main focus,
I actually agree.
I mean, I think that in the bull run,
we created a whole toxic area where it's like,
the NFT was the primary product.
And now we're actually reversing it now in this market
where it's like, it should be the secondary asset
to everything, right?
They can, like, I know a lot of people,
I think a lot of people are starting to just wanting
to be collectors because they just generally
want to be part of the project
or just want to be part of different projects,
wherever you are as an investor.
But yeah, I don't think it should be the main focus.
I don't know why people still adopt that,
but a lot of projects still do.
I know, like, they tried to do like,
oh yeah, you know, it's IP driven, which is great,
but it's really tricky to be on that.
You're not like at that phase yet.
I think like your project would have to be at like,
you know, stage 100 for you to actually adopt
the whole IP narrative.
Then the second thing I wanted to talk about
was the content creation comment.
I agree with that with Andrew as well.
It's like, I think that, I mean, this is a hot take.
Not everyone is a content creator, right?
You can create content, but there's a lot of people
that are just like farming engagement.
Like, I quit my job, blah, blah, blah.
No, you're like, that's not content.
That's just words, you know what I'm saying?
Have a call to action.
Because if you're not having a real plan
when it comes to content creation,
it's really hard to just like,
you're just going to find yourself in a loop
because you're getting hopium from all the likes
and retweets and shit.
And like, you will get more engagement for sure.
I actually think most people get more engagement,
but I mean, it's like, what are you going to do
with that after?
Like you have to have a real call to action.
That dopamine hits though, baby.
I'm not, I can see why people want to be content creators
because you post something nonchalantly
and then the likes just start flying.
You have goddamn 20 retweets.
You got 30 comments and 200 likes.
You're like, God damn, that feels good.
I don't know why we're like, why are we built like that?
That satisfaction you get.
We're built different.
It's just it's the validation thing, right?
It's like, okay, the likes equal validation
that the things you said are like cool,
funny or interesting.
And that's just always so funny to me
how a lot of us operate like that.
They feel good.
I think we could all honestly say the truth
that the likes feel good.
And for those of you who have your hand raised,
you can speak if you want to.
As long as we're not like getting crazy,
like if you have a take, I'd love to hear from you.
So if anything, I'll just pass it over to,
let's go to Bitcoin, man.
You're about to speak over, brother.
Yeah, yeah, all right.
Cool, cool.
Yeah, so I just wanted to say basically
about this content.
First of all, what you were talking about
makes me feel bad for y'all.
Damn, like who cares about damn likes and shit.
I'm just like, and I'm going to talk about something
because it's related to content creation.
And then I'm going to tie it back to the advice bit
because I think there's a lot you can learn
from this platform and leverage it from it.
So basically, what I was talking about
was basically something called Hive.
It's a blockchain, social blockchain.
And basically on there, when people like your things,
comments, whatever, your post, you earn Hive.
And then whatever, that's worth money.
You can exchange it for Bitcoin and you.
And there's a lot of other stuff that the chain offers
that help you do a lot of crazy shit.
Number one is something called free banking.
I don't know if you guys are familiar with that, really.
But what free banking is, is it a concept
that basically says that anyone should have
the right to mint their own currency or whatever.
Obviously, in this case, it would be a cryptocurrency
or a token.
And then the market determines what's good money
and what's bad money.
All right.
So Hive lets people make tokens on the chain.
And the other thing is they don't have transaction fees.
There are fees, but it gets covered by new money
or new tokens that are printed.
And there's resource credits.
And anyway, there's a lot to it.
But there's a lot that you can learn from that
and leverage and use in communities.
So for instance, I can tell you about
a project that I want to do it.
So I want to make like a little charity, basically,
that leverages all this
and then help people in Nigeria and other countries
that don't have a lot of opportunities.
And I got a scam and shit because I ain't got no jobs.
Times are hard.
And just like offer them an opportunity
to get some monies.
And basically, people can donate to this.
And then...
Well, look, Bitcoin, man.
I have a question.
How about this, man?
Because it says in your bio, you're a content creation coach.
So if you're talking to people
who are interested in content creation
or they want to grow their following,
okay, give me your two best pieces of advice for them.
Sure. All right.
So if you want to...
First of all, you have to figure out
what you're trying to do with your content.
We go back to the why.
So that would be the first thing.
And then the other thing would be that
you have to remain consistent and keep going
because it takes time.
The thing is, like, you know, there's a lot of artists
that, you know, they died before people recognize
how great they were.
Bitcoin, man. Can I ask you something?
Yes. Sure.
What platform do you have the most followers on?
Or what platform do you put the most content on?
Yeah, I put the most content on Hive, basically.
And, like, honestly, the only reason I'm here is
because of Hive and, like, because...
Is there a dating app? What is that dating app?
What is that?
Yeah. No. Yeah.
No, it's not a dating app.
Basically, Hive is a blockchain,
but it's also, like, a social blockchain.
Yeah, it's social five. It's social five.
So I'm familiar with Hive.
Do you have, like, pretty significant content on there?
Oh, yeah. I post daily.
I post daily.
All right.
Do you have, like, a lot of followers or anything?
Well, I have, like, relatively a lot of followers.
There's not that many users on Hive still
because, like, it's just a bunch of nerds
that made it and make it.
And they, like, they don't understand, like, normal people.
I don't mean to cut out that. Isn't that the problem?
Like, we're talking about social networks and reach
and actually reaching with you.
And I'm all for creating, you know, new experiences, whatever.
But you literally have Instagram
who, like, Zuckerberg changed his ideology
as, like, a leader for that company
just to try to compete here.
And it didn't compete.
And I get, you know, blockchain where you post
and you can get paid, things like that.
It's alluring.
I've been doing content for a long time.
I can tell you, like, definitely have your feelers,
like, explore if you really want.
But I wouldn't advise, like, focusing on something
that that's brand, like, that new
and has that low amount of reach, like you said.
Yeah, yeah. No, for sure.
But that's what I was...
Right. Sorry to the network.
No, I hear what you're saying.
And, like, I totally agree.
That's why when I was saying,
not necessarily to use the platform,
but there's a lot you can learn from it.
And there is still tools you can leverage.
The thing is, I think that realistically,
a lot of this blockchain and all this stuff
needs to be in the background.
Like, people don't, like, most of you guys
know how to use a cell phone, know how to drive.
But most of you don't know how the car actually works,
what all the parts do or what the cell phone does
or how the internet really works.
And all this stuff.
People don't need to know.
Bitcoin, Bitcoin, Bitcoin.
It's just in the background.
Just one second, one second, bro.
Because I feel like we're so crazy off topic.
It's nuts.
Yeah, yeah.
I want to get...
Do you mind applying for direct real quick?
Because I got to bounce, unfortunately.
Yeah, go for it, Brad. Go for it.
Okay, just back on the topic.
If I had to give one advice to a founder,
and I'm not a founder yet, so take it with a grain of salt.
There are no rules.
I think I consider X like a big party
where everyone's in the ballroom
and shit don't get built in the ballroom.
All right, get built in the back room.
So I agree with Bitcoin man about what he said.
He said, don't worry about impressions.
It's the dopamine hit.
But you can get X ultimately is a time waster for builders.
And you could see, we talk about people like,
you have to have a presence and you do.
But look at Frank and Luca,
arguably the two biggest founders in the space.
So they build.
You don't hear from them or you barely hear from them.
And then they come around and do their spaces rounds.
And they post periodically
when they have something to say.
But back to the main point, which is there are no rules.
I think a lot of people, 2021 especially,
has set up a structure of like,
oh, 10K, now everyone does 10K.
Oh, Luca did stuffed animals.
Now everyone does stuffed animals.
It's so easy to look back and try to learn
and take the best out of everything.
But the things that succeed the best
are things that haven't been done yet.
So don't look at what has been done.
Look at what you want to accomplish.
Dig deep into the tools that Web2 offers you
and bring something new to the space.
That's my best advice.
I love what Brett said there because in Web3,
that's a common problem.
And I've said this for so many times to a lot of founders.
It's like, just because this worked for another project,
it's not going to work for you.
You have to be really realistic.
Also, you have to do a lot of trial and error.
You could have your plan set to step three,
but maybe you're at step one
and you're not seeing things add up.
And I've seen that with the Kleinesaurus
where they had the plushies.
Great idea, but I don't think that wasn't a great move
just because they didn't really have what it took
and just like, Pudgy just had such a crazy community.
I don't know, they just had so much around them
to do that, but that's just a good example
that I just noticed in the space as well, Brett says.
Yeah, I like his take too.
He mentioned that the impressions don't matter,
builders build, they're not really concerned
with a lot of the stuff that's going on.
But I think I saw Andrew put a thumbs down
because I think it actually goes to show you
that you named two founders like Luca and Frank
and I would put them in bucket A as like founder types
where they are very client facing,
they have a ton of comms,
they talk directly to a lot of their holders
very often actually.
Whereas you have type B founders like maybe Zagabond
who isn't up on spaces all the time
and isn't really that super client facing for example,
but still succeed in what it is that they're building.
So I think there's always going to be buckets
in which good founders operate in
and they're always going to be different from one another,
but sometimes there's a lot of different attributes
that they might have that correlate really well
with other founders in that same bucket.
So I would put Luca and Frank and Wob for example,
all in a type A bucket who are really client facing.
But of course, they're building.
But you're not seeing them,
you're not seeing them complaining about
not getting enough responses on their GMs.
Okay, if that was the point,
then yeah, of course,
of course, they don't give a shit about any of that.
That's a founder's hack.
That's the founder's hack.
That's the founder's hack, yeah.
We touched upon this like this morning,
like Matt was there,
Ruda was there,
Sal might have been in and out, not sure.
Yeah, this morning we mentioned like 20 minutes,
the founder's hack is very real.
Having a founder who's even mildly successful,
like just mildly,
like very mild,
like a very mild taste of wings,
like that successful type.
Like how mild?
Yeah, like very mild,
like MI, very mild.
I think can allude to and allow them
to unlock the founder's hack,
which means you've already created
your community of a thousand.
That's really the portion matter what.
Like even, you know what I mean?
I think the ultimate goal,
for creators is to find your 100,
you know, 100 or a thousand
or 100,000 or 25,000,
whatever it is,
true supporters, true fans,
and the founder's hack gets you there,
but obviously there is the other side too
of this, which is the ugliness
that no one talks about.
If you get there,
you can also lose it
as quick as it came.
And we've seen this happen.
Kevin Rose, good dude,
feel for him.
Dude, it's funny
because everyone puts founders,
especially like the top ones,
at least they did,
let's say a year ago
or something like that.
People put them on pedestals, man,
like crazy.
It's like, especially like pre-ment
or even a little after mint.
They're like,
everyone just feels as though
they're like God or something like that.
It's always the craziest thing to me
where people like just,
I call it founder simping,
where they just like simp for founders
for literally no reason.
Like it's cool to be a fan, man,
but they're literally just human beings
and people on the other side
of the phone, man.
It's like you can talk to them
like human beings.
You don't have to,
I just never understood that.
I don't know.
Maybe that's just like a mentality thing.
Go for it.
Matt, we're kind of open discussion here,
but Matt, you can go
if you want it in POC.
POC, you've been waiting for a minute.
Go ahead, buddy.
I'll jump in in a minute.
Appreciate you.
Yeah, honestly,
I think it's a great discussion.
I kind of commend you
for just kind of like openly
talking about it.
Transparently, I've been on
kind of like a similar timeline
when I came into space
and like kind of put them all together.
And that's what kind of floored me
about, honestly, Web3 as a whole.
And it's funny,
coming from quote unquote Web2,
it's weird to say traditional,
but traditional content creation.
And even like what I do now
for a living in marketing,
it's always amazed me
at how much we rely
in Web3 on Twitter slash X
and how it's like,
honestly, how it's used.
We have people like NFT God,
although he's not NFT God anymore,
going around and
coaching people about
how to write threads
and long form tweets
and cultivate content.
And there's a lot of people
that have done their own spinoff
on it and things like that.
And that's something that,
honestly, I can tell you is
it's really a focus here.
I've been around the internet.
I'm not everywhere,
but I'm literally 39.
I've been on the internet
since it started.
And I've never seen
a social platform being used
like we use X here
and the way people depend on it.
And there are a lot of correlations
to what streamers
and what content creators go through
in terms of watching your numbers
and creating a content plan
if you're taking it seriously
and trying to craft that message
if you're trying to take that route.
When it comes to finding,
actually building and finding your,
I think Sal put it perfectly,
your solution to a problem.
And that's why you launch something.
That's why you launch a project.
I really quickly distained
very clear cut.
Oh, we're building this.
We're doing this.
It's like you're literally
a JPEG of the community.
If you're going to launch like that,
that's fine.
But don't give me
all these false promises.
I think we all got
life for that over time.
For me, in my two year journey
that the image of what
I wanted to build has changed.
And honestly, there's a lot of
great people in this space
that are a reason for that.
Nevermind like the trend,
but even the people I connect with
because there's people along the way
that we might be like,
oh, let's do a call sometime.
Let's do this.
Let's do that.
If I get to that level with you,
you're already like
quote unquote already involved
in my idea.
It's just something that I want
to be the answer to a problem.
I don't want to be,
oh, hey, here's our JPEG.
Let's rally around it.
Let's be some height movement
or let's try to build something from it.
I want to have a clear game plan.
And I think I have that,
but honestly, it's like you said,
it's taking that leap.
It's even discussing it.
Like even now,
you're not really going into
like what it is.
And I totally understand why
because as soon as you speak
in a new existence,
as soon as you start talking
about this with people,
now your name is tied to it.
And we are in such a small circle
here in web three,
that a lot of people don't realize,
like even the names we mentioned,
the Franks, the Lucas,
all of them,
every single founder
all the way up to Yuga,
no one knows them outside of our circle.
Like let's be real,
there's few circles.
And a few of them how we do,
but not like that.
You know, what's funny fuck
is I remember being in NFT NYC
and then we were at like
the DeGods like pizza,
and it's just a bunch of all of us
with three DeGend nerds out there,
all wearing black hoodies
and fucking Jordans
or whatever it was.
We all looked the same too.
And people were walking by,
they were like,
who is that?
Because we're all circling
like Franks coming out
and they're like,
who is that?
And then someone whispered
like next to me,
they're like,
oh, just like a super,
super niche,
mega niche influencer
and like a super niche sub market.
And I just started dying laughing
because I was like,
that's so true
that like all these people
who are like big,
you know, big news
in our space
or in our circles,
they're literally not even
like a grain of sand
when you talk about the effects
of like actual pop culture
and stuff like that, right?
We're starting to see a little bit of that.
Yeah, and it's not even a knock on them.
It's really not
because actually
one of the biggest things
that I'm really kind of bullish on
is I want to see more projects
take the Luca coach.
I'm not saying, you know,
you got to get in Walmart,
but get some damn brand awareness
in this space.
I mean, goddamn,
like I saw that from day one
when I got in two years ago,
like the fact that
we do not see a Yuga branded shirt
that you can buy somewhere
just as a person,
just support them
as another revenue stream.
Are you kidding me?
Like with their connections
and their reach,
like all the celebrities
rocking it and all that,
they can't get a shirt somewhere
even online that you can order.
No, you have to be a holder.
And then we hear
all the horror stories about that.
Like it was insane to me
to hear like when it all started
like, oh, hey, Luca's putting
the pudgies in Walmart.
People were like,
They were like,
They were like,
think about the provenance.
What does it mean
for the penguins?
And I'm like, guys,
he bought the fucking IP
because it's cute penguins
because he can use
that brand to build
and get reach out there.
And the genius in it all
is all these cute IPs
are actually the secret weapons
of the space.
If you can get the kids,
like my daughter,
she's four.
She looks at my PSP.
She goes,
dad, there's your friend.
There's your alien friend.
And look,
I'm in your pocket
because she knows
the story behind it.
She's bought NFTs
literally during the bull.
I pulled up a collection.
I was about to buy some more
and I was like,
hey, pick some.
And she was clicking on them
and then she clicked buy.
She did her first purchase.
But she has picked pretty pictures.
And that's like,
I don't think people understand
the strength of that,
that a four-year-old
is now going to grow up.
She's going to be five in 2024.
She's going to grow up
as a five-year-old
from here on out
and be aware of this.
And I'm 39.
A lot of you are younger.
You don't understand
the power of that alone.
People even in your 20s right now,
you don't understand.
When I was in my team,
you were my kid
and now you're here.
So the power of that alone,
you just need way more
brand awareness, dude.
And that's another thing
that I've thought about
and I hope you do too, Rudolf.
I know you probably are,
but like, it's just insane.
I mean, it's just insane.
Great stuff.
I do have one disagreement with you
and I have a video coming out
about this probably next week.
Hopefully we can get this done in time.
And you hit on something
that I was thinking about
actually this week.
And I wish we can clip that
and I can cycle over Twitter
a hundred times over
and spaces record.
So I might just do it.
I don't think we have
an awareness problem.
I think we have
a convincing problem, right?
And Matt's done sales.
Rudolf's done sales, right?
You want to sell God to somebody?
Tell them about the devil, right?
And we need to get better
at doing this.
We have a convincing problem.
Go on YouTube, type in
I hate NFTs.
There's millions of views
on NFTs, millions.
The videos are six months old,
two months old,
three months old,
but they're all negative.
They know what the fuck it is.
We've just not convinced them of it yet.
The awareness is there.
We got to get better
at the selling part of it.
Yeah, I mean, it's hard.
I feel like everyone knows
what an N...
Like, honestly, God,
everyone knows what an NFT is.
Neymar Jr. was rocking
full, blown, pink, kitted out
board APO club fits.
Like, trust me,
the world knows about NFTs.
The problem is exactly what it is.
It's the narrative behind it is terrible.
Yeah, and maybe let me focus
on its brand awareness to me
in terms of our side of it.
I do totally agree, though,
because I don't see enough
attempt at that.
But I do agree with Andrew
that, you know, there is this whole,
like, getting over the mental scar
that is NFTs for everybody
and the way that I kind of explain
it to everyone.
And it's kind of surreal
because I'm still in that old
content world that I was in.
So I'm still like, you know,
a daily participant there
just, you know, not creating
content, like keeping up, whatever.
And even someone as big
as Dr. Disrespect watches,
you know, talks about his project,
he's launching whatever
there's NFTs involved
takes a major hit a bunch of flack
over that when NFT world
made their announcement
and Microsoft, you know,
just pulled out like Minecraft
from the web three world
out from underneath them
and a lot of other projects here.
It was like, oh my god,
how could they do this on YouTube
in that content world
from the gaming sphere?
It was like Microsoft saved us.
They protected us.
So like it's literally
just the viewpoint
and I totally agree.
It's educating.
And honestly, it's more examples
that are wins.
One that I can give is
DraftKings, their Rainmaker application.
I have friends of mine
that are like non tech savvy,
but they're into fantasy
and they DFS
through the DraftKings app.
They got into Rainmakers
because it was promoted
but didn't realize
it was NFT.
Literally like DM me like,
oh, bro, I just got all these cards.
I'm like doing these lines.
I'm like, I keep buying these packs.
I'm like, oh, cool.
So you got in the blockchain
and they're like, fuck you, dude.
I'm not into your fucking stupid.
I'm not into that nerd picture stuff.
I'm like, I'm like,
actually, bro,
let's bring it up
outside of your phone
on the computer.
Pat, I love when you bring that up
and they literally
fucking swear at you.
They're like, fuck you.
They're like, fuck you, dude.
One of that potty shit.
I don't wanna get scammed.
And but that's how I explain it.
It's perfect style
because that's what I explain.
I'm like, okay,
you are actually on blockchain.
Bring it up.
It will show you
when you click on details.
It's on polygon.
That blows their mind.
I'm like, what you're using right now
is an NFT.
Think outside the box.
It's not just like a monkey JPEG
attached to a contract.
See if this is the technology
people are backing.
And we're at such an early stage of it
that the only reason
you think it's a scam
is because it's so easy
to scam right now.
And sadly,
this happened in the dot com bubble
and a lot of people don't remember that.
And now it's just the next wave of it.
And we're in the early frontier that
we all like to get braggadocious
about how we're getting away
from the old standards.
And there's no one here.
We kind of need to evolve.
So maybe there is someone here
or we just need to,
like Andrew said,
get more realistic about it
and try to educate and be like,
hey, there are scams.
It is a minefield.
It's growing,
but there are good examples.
And honestly,
I don't use the word NFT.
I use digital collectible.
I go that route.
It's actually way more satisfying
for their ears.
Even my girlfriend,
she is not a big fan of it.
But she uses the shit
out of Starbucks Odyssey program.
Like she is die hard.
Die hard Starbucks.
Another great example.
Yeah, die hard Starbucks.
She's always looking at like,
oh, she's like,
oh, I wonder like
when the next like drop
of like the this new Odyssey drop,
like I wonder when that's coming out
is like baby.
And then she tried to make one
or like she tried to get one.
She didn't know she was minting it,
but she tried to get like a new stamp,
like a rare stamp or something.
And she went to go
and purchase it or claim it.
And she's like,
what the hell?
Why did this instantly sell out?
She's like,
this is kind of bullshit, right?
Like, how come it instantly sold out
and like,
I don't get to get one now.
I was like,
Oh, first time I love it.
I don't want to speak too much more,
but it's funny.
You mentioned the whole Starbucks thing.
I work with people
and we have like off sites
and I've talked to like even
the co-founders of my company
about Web3, NFTs
and they've even like,
they're very interested
and they come back like,
well, how would we apply it?
And honestly,
we're not at that point yet.
Like our sales reps
wouldn't know how to sell it.
We can't even sell marketing here
because it's blocked
a lot of exchanges right now
and to be honest,
the managers will give you
like a Starbucks gift card
like digitally, right?
Like a little like,
Hey, good for you.
Like little like side thing,
Every now and then people have started
obviously going to Starbucks more.
I've had friends of mine
that I work with
over here people in Starbucks
talk about Odyssey
and like mentioned,
like crypto, Web3,
whatever in those conversations
and then come back
and on Zoom,
like be damning me like,
so what's this Starbucks thing?
And like I've actually
onboarded two people
I work with to Web3
through Starbucks Odyssey.
It's kind of funny.
Damn, you know people
way nicer than I do
because I'll bring it up
or maybe they mentioned it to me.
They're like,
I'm like, NFTs are like,
Oh, why are you going to New York?
New York?
I was like,
Oh, just this like NFT conference.
Like, I don't know.
It's kind of lame.
They're like,
Yeah, it is lame.
That's super dumb.
Why do you have to approach it?
Bro, I literally tell them
it's art.
It's just digital art.
And it's also the technology.
It's digital ownership.
And that's what it's going to
like turn into.
And the one thing I say
that always catches people
is within the next 10 years,
there if they are currently have
like a home mortgage
is likely going to be an NFT.
And they're like,
RWAs, man, they all think
it's just JPEGs
and then you have to further explain
like, actually, no,
it's literally just the technology
that tokenizing physical items
on chain, baby.
We just have a space about that too.
Ruto, RWAs and deepens.
I didn't know
you could also wrap your mortgage
on the blockchain,
which is kind of crazy.
Don't know how that even works.
Home sold on the blockchain,
which I think is really creepy
because they were bragging about it
and everyone knows
like that house.
Visuals thumbs down.
I don't know.
He's probably.
Visuals are negative, Nancy.
This is my impact.
I'm excited to get the visual.
Home sales and shit
and real estate information
is already like public knowledge,
Like you just need to have
like a fucking realtors license
or something like that.
Yeah, I just mean more
like the first I remember
the first home sale
on the blockchain was like
like front page crypto Twitter
like everywhere news
and like that address
which is blast.
But I just wouldn't want to be
the MFR that like bought that house
because you're like forever
having people come by like
so you bought this on the crypto.
Tell me more like I just I just.
I mean, are people actually doing that?
That sounds that sounds wild.
I mean, I own a home
and we get people ringing our doorbell
trying to sell us random shit.
I don't need people to know I'm here.
So yeah, that's I mean, that's that's
that's a little different.
Alright, let's get to Andrew.
You got your hands up brother.
Go for it.
You have host privilege, right?
Yeah, I do forget.
I want to be respectful.
Pat, you're on a bunch
of great stuff there.
I'm actually a little bit saddened
by the fact you haven't been
on our spaces before
or maybe you have.
I think this is the first time
I've heard you speak back.
You definitely come back more
and really just talk your talk.
You're on a bunch
of a bunch of good stuff.
I do have a question for you though.
Patch, hopefully your numbers guy,
So I'm looking at the space right now.
It's only 21 reposts
and there's 51 people in here.
Those numbers patch doesn't make sense.
Am I seeing things?
Are you seeing what I mean?
I'm seeing the same thing.
Our conversion rate is far too low.
We really need more engagement,
more interactions.
It's clear math people.
You just click the little pill down there.
It's probably lit up for you
because there's been actions on it
since you've last clicked it,
since you haven't.
Just click that and honestly,
I don't even give a shit.
Don't even look it.
You don't even like it.
Just click that little button
in the middle,
that little retweet, little symbol.
Just do that for the people.
I mean, the man's out here
building a project.
I give him some advice.
Question mark.
Yeah, Pat, you have a really soothing voice, man.
I would love for you to read
the Bitcoin white paper to me
as I go to sleep tonight.
That would be pretty great.
So I get that from men and women online
and I love it because I get those compliments
a lot more now that it's audio based
when I was shooting.
Like that was it and it'd be weirder
just because he sounds like Luke
20 years in the future.
Doesn't he a little bit?
A little bit, man.
Yeah, I don't know.
You need a voice in audiobook, man.
Yeah, that's fair.
Pat, I have one more question for you
and then we can go back to Ruto.
So this one's on a serious note.
Obviously, the convincing stuff,
super important, right?
We know the problems themselves.
They don't really give a shit.
Honestly, most people don't know
how money works probably won't ever.
The same thing can be said for our industry.
We use PayPal.
Most people don't know how that stuff works.
Whatever.
We get that. It's fine.
Pat, my one question is this.
Obviously, people hate when they see
other people winning,
especially when the winning comes easy.
If you've noticed, look at the behavior.
When you see somebody else winning
and they're doing it easily
or they're making it seem like it's being done easy,
they can't fucking stand it.
And they'll probably lie to you
and say that they're happy with it
or whatever it is,
but you could tell deep down inside
they hate it, right?
And most people for the past two years
have seen the degenerates of the degenerate
winning in the industry at scale,
buying NFTs, selling NFTs,
tens of thousands, millions of dollars,
bases for 500k.
They've seen these things pop off.
More just paid off.
People buying new property.
People buying.
Their girlfriend rings like Fidgetl,
whatever it is, right?
Do you think that's part of the reason
why they hate it?
Because they see us winning so easy.
Honestly, I think it's more of a...
It's not even a web 3 issue.
I can tell you it's someone that's almost 40.
The number one thing I hate the most
is that I wasn't born later.
Because if you're younger right now,
you have opportunities.
Oh God, just like so available to you.
It's insane.
And I think web 3 is a perfect example of it.
You had teenagers launching projects
and becoming millionaires over the night
in the bull.
And literally they just led a crowd of people,
like educated adults,
male and female,
later in life.
And even around their age,
they marched off.
Right out to the pasture.
As long as they could.
Exactly, Matt.
Like, no, no.
But please, it's true.
They literally like marched on
as long as they could.
And then the bear really hit
and the bullshit stopped.
I think here in the space,
you've seen an education
by fire take place for a lot of people.
For a lot, this was their first bear.
It was my first bear.
But during the bull,
I was savvy enough to listen to people
that were talking on the previous bears
and certain things.
Just because, like I said,
I think it's experience.
There's a lot more experienced people.
At least the people that are here now
are experienced.
And I think a lot of the mindset here
of, man, it's been so easy for these people.
I think the kind of projects we see
really take hold.
Like, Crypto Undead surprised me.
It really did.
Because I didn't think
the space would fall for no art
and then open at that price.
Like, there was 20 sold-ins and stuff.
And I just didn't think
that would happen right now,
honestly, with everything
that people have kind of gone through,
if you want my honest opinion.
So that was surprising to me.
Luckily, I think the art was,
you know, I don't think it would blow away.
It goes past that.
I think it goes past that, though.
I mean, can you imagine
not understanding something
and then you, because, you know,
obviously not you didn't understand
something, you see that
the thing you don't understand
and the thing that you're
maybe too lazy to understand.
You see tens of people
making millions of dollars,
if not tens of
twenties of millions of dollars.
You're going to be pissed.
Like, I am the crypto guy,
or no, I am OK.
And my friends that live,
you know, near me from, you know, near me,
I'm probably one of four
that are in crypto.
But from a wider stance,
we all know other guys
who have made 10, 20, 30, 50 million dollars.
But in my group, I'm the guy
known as the crypto guy,
so to speak, out of our friend group.
And everyone knows a guy in crypto
or gallon crypto
who's made tons of millions of money.
Imagine being these people
who, one, don't understand it.
Ignorance your problem.
And two, because they don't understand it,
you see people making tons of money.
I'd be pissed.
I'd absolutely pissed off.
No, yeah, no, they're definitely
pissed about it.
But I think that's also a mindset
that they already have,
like them and the personality.
Someone else's success.
Okay, fine.
Maybe that's your thing.
Now it's how you utilize that anger.
Is that going to fuel you
to learn more about it
so you're not off in the dust
and to try to learn ways to keep up?
Or is that something
that's just going to maybe
put you in the dirt further?
I don't want to like
take up too much time.
I see we've got other hands.
But I think honestly,
that's just a personality thing.
And I think overall the space
and just how we're all operating.
I think we'll see it less.
But it's going to be interesting
when you see this next wave of like,
you know, we remember what it was
like the amount of users
during the last pull.
If we have that kind of increase here,
like we think we will.
It'll be interesting to see,
you know, some people coming in
and being like,
wait a minute,
you have that penguin
and it's worth how much?
Or do you have this
and it's worth how much?
Like how?
Like and they'll probably want to know why
and we'll go through that,
you know, hurdle process
of some people getting angry
and being like,
fuck this space,
you're a bunch of scammers,
you're a bunch of pricks, whatever.
And we'll have others
that will be like,
tell me more.
I want to know, you know what I mean?
Well, you know,
it's one of my favorite quotes.
We were just in a Twitter space.
I was in a Twitter space earlier today
and there was a 14 year old kid in there
and he had grinded his way
through whitelist and stuff like that.
And he bought a pudgy penguin
for like one year
or something like that.
He is 14 years old
and he's just going around
like his school and like,
imagine being 14, okay?
Because I'm old enough
to remember being 14
and Twitter wasn't out.
Like, I mean, Twitter was out
and Instagram wasn't out.
Snapchat wasn't out.
Like none of these social platforms.
Like we were all still commenting
on each other's walls
on like Facebook
or like Tumblr, right?
Like DMing people on Tumblr and shit.
So imagine like being 14,
walking around
and you have a $40,000 like asset
just chilling in your wallet
and like no one knows about it
in your school and you're just 14.
Like you mentioned the opportunities
that like the younger generation
has these days.
Even on my phone,
I have this thing called Helium
and I just drive around
and I earn like Helium token
and I convert it into Sol.
In the last two weeks,
I've made $80 bro.
I didn't even have an allowance growing up.
Have fun, son.
And I'm like, tight,
I'm gonna go buy like a bag of popcorn
and like watch the sun like go down.
So like the kids these days,
they could make money
like never before seen
in human history
with just Wi-Fi
and like a screen.
And you see it now.
It's crazy
because I always say this.
Like we are in a generation
where we're going to see
a lot of people take.
If you can get into a good opportunity,
I think that like
I think opportunities
are going to be a lot bigger
than it was 20 years ago.
30 years ago, you know what I'm saying?
Like even especially in this space,
like in Web3,
I'm seeing people literally like
that were with me since 2021
build on platforms,
have their own agencies,
like literally became solopreneurs.
Like it's just wild
to see this shit
and imagine like just
younger generation.
I'm just I don't know.
I'm just in awe as well.
My daughter is in everyone.
She or she turns five
and now that she's five,
she's old enough to go
into like coding classes for the kids.
Dude, let's go.
Like I've already lived in it.
So like we're so excited.
Patch, by the time she's 18,
she'll finally have
the 10 years experience
that a junior dev is required
to have for them
to finally get their position.
I've been a junior dev.
Like I've been I.T.
like enterprise three.
I had to work my way up all of it.
Like I've gone through all this.
That's why I'm like floored
that my daughter in her prime years
to learn like all this bad stuff
is going to be handed stuff
that I had to literally like scratch
and claw and look up
in the early days of learning.
It's absurd.
Paint back in the day,
like my first website.
Yeah, that's it's coding on notepad.
Yeah, but yeah,
I want to pass around the room
to some hands.
I don't want all of us boomers
up here to go down memory lane
about when you're one of those.
Yeah, I don't know.
Go for it.
Solly run.
You've had your head up for a while.
So go for brother.
I did not click.
Definitely had it up longer than I did.
Okay, yeah, let's go click.
Go for it man.
That's vector.
Don't let his new names.
That's what I was wondering.
I was like, man,
I know for a fact
that didn't call your ass
Solly runner before.
So yeah, go for a click.
Three quick things.
One, I think we're vastly overestimating
the amount of people
who made literal millions
or tens of millions of dollars
in the space.
For every person who
woke up an overnight millionaire,
there is probably several other bozos
who saw their bags severely depleted.
It's just a numbers game.
Not everyone is going to click.
You're in the wrong click then.
You're in the wrong click,
then click.
I'm sorry to say it.
It's only the wrong click.
Dude, we don't have
okay balls.
You're right, though.
The numbers are obviously skewed a little bit.
Did you say a little bit,
Andrew, really,
as if we're not watching people
literally launder money
left and right in the space
and talk about it
like every other space.
Well, to be fair, vector,
so how many people on stage
made like tens of millions of dollars?
This is, in fact, true.
I didn't say that I did.
I was talking about what happened.
You guys are going to send a move
like to say it.
It's okay.
You could just say,
you're saying you hate apples
and it's fine.
It's totally fine.
I'm a mid trader.
And if the IRS is listening,
this is all just...
I'm a mid trader, right?
And if the IRS is listening,
this is all just a fake story.
But even me being a super mid trader
only starting out with like 0.3 ETH
from 2021 to like the end of 2022,
I still was able to make
like over six figures in crypto
and like NFTs
and I'm super mid trader.
Now, granted...
The figures is one-tenth of a million dollars.
Oh, of course.
Of course.
Now, I'm not saying everyone...
I think you're talking like...
It was obviously a blanket statement.
But if you were to ask
a thousand people down the street,
like how much money did they make
doing like anything
or even their career
and then you asked a thousand people
the thousand people you asked on Web3
definitely made more money
than just a thousand people
walking down the street
trading NFTs on whitelist
or getting airdrops
or anything like that.
I think what he's trying to say...
I'm not arguing that.
But I digress.
I already forgot
what my second point was
because I couldn't even finish
my first point
without being interrupted
by four other people.
Sorry, correct.
The last thing I wanted to say
when I first got in here,
you guys were talking
about content creation.
My thesis is like someone who's...
Like I've written a lot of articles
and kind of created a lot of content
on my own
or through a job that I've had
or whatever.
But like the biggest thing for me
is if you want to create content
or like do stuff,
like do it for yourself
first and foremost
because I think the thing
almost everyone can universally
agree upon
is that authenticity reigns supreme
and people can sense that
whether they understand everything
that's happening or not.
Most people can kind of tell
if your heart is in it.
And I think when you are creating stuff
because it brings you
personal satisfaction first,
that is something that's reflected
and it resonates with people.
I personally enjoy...
I'll listen to anybody talk about anything
if they're passionate about it
because to me that's interesting
is when you have people
who are very interested in stuff
and they devote themselves to it
and they become experts in it
or whatever the fuck.
That's compelling content
and I think that's the best way
to kind of find your niche,
find your people,
find your 1000 true fans
or whatever you're looking for.
That's got to be there from the onset
because the moment you stop doing it
for yourself it becomes a job.
And everyone probably hates their job
at least every now and then
and you don't want to lose
the thing that made you want to do it
in the first place.
Click, did you send Ben.eth money by chance?
Get the fuck out of here with that shit.
Okay, we're on the same page, Ben.
I did, I did.
Well, Double actually did.
Double actually did.
That's on brand.
It was a little bit, buddy.
I'm not gonna lie.
That's on brand.
It was a little bit
but I'm not gonna lie, yeah.
You're what's wrong with this space
but it's fine, dude.
I'm just kidding.
Double is probably more
so I sent some nudes.
Love that brand.
Okay, well, I don't know.
Salamander invited me to come to here
because she probably wanted me to
say something against the grain
because I'm probably going to.
I don't know.
I hear a lot of optimism in this space.
Go out there and make it.
Go out there and fuck it all up.
Just do it again.
I mean, personally,
I think that we do not need
another NFT project.
We don't like solely
just as another NFT project.
We don't need that shit.
If you're talking about like
we already have what's like
five years and 99% of rugs
and how much more thousands of
experiments do we need to know
that you can't fundraise without a product
and then scramble to make a product
and then try to build that from the ashes.
And then we go and we law the .001%
that makes something out of that.
Pudgy penguins.
And then we don't stop talking
about them for seven years.
Like they live, you know, whatever.
And I guess they're the new
for whatever.
But like I really would love
to see more infrastructure plays.
You know, more killer apps,
something that's more
in the spirit of disruption
that this whole technology
was built upon in the first place.
You know, so like they
I don't know.
She's like, hold on, hold on,
let me finish because I don't know.
I don't know what you're going to say.
So I'm talking while you're talking.
So how can I hear you now?
Like, you know, so like I was saying,
like more infrastructure plays,
bro, like more plays that are like,
you know, it's just like things
that like, you know, like simple tools
with great UI that put power
in people's hands, you know,
because Andrew was talking about
like he was trying to say
like the whole world is haters.
They're watching us make this money
and they're just hating on the sidelines.
Like no one hates a lot of winnings
because everyone has access to it.
So at least they had their shot.
But just like how Pac was saying,
you know, his daughter
or his wife is trying to get something
and they didn't get their shot.
And so that's what we have.
We have an accessibility problem.
So if we're making tech
that's not accessible to people,
it's already cordoned off,
it's highly exclusive, then yeah,
you're going to naturally breed haters
because that's what that is.
But if we're building technology
that's, you know, accessible
and building technology
that's useful for people
that introduce this technology
in a way that actually
is beneficial to them
on their day to day life.
Somehow, I don't know,
dragons rob Dow programs,
dragons rob, you know,
all kinds of shit.
We always know what it is.
So like, if like, you know,
we're talking about like, you know,
and that's not hard to make.
There's so many SDKs out there
to build down.
Like they've been out forever.
So like putting that in the hands
of like, you know, mothers,
teachers, students, like, you know,
skateboarders,
people that want to like, you know,
start pooling together their funds
so they can, you know,
build out, you know,
their own kind of businesses
and stuff like that,
making it so we can, you know,
like democratize businessmaking
because that's already moving
towards that in a sense
with this whole AI stuff
and with tech with with
blockchain technology as it is.
So yeah, like do I want to see
more things get made here?
You know, token gated access,
something like that,
utilize the NFT,
give a person the reason
to keep it in their wallet,
by all means.
Otherwise, not really.
It's fair.
I think it's a fair point.
Look, I'm always going to be
more bullish on
infrastructure projects.
A, because usually they're
a more sustainable
long-term business model,
depending on like,
what kind of infrastructure
you're building out,
whether it be wallets
or security or, you know,
faster transaction protocols,
like those are all going
to be a net positive.
But I mean, look, I'm,
there's already tons
of people doing that.
And I'm in real quick
before we get too far away.
I just want to say one thing
to POC or not POC,
whoever, whoever was just speaking.
Vector, I really agree
with everything you said.
And I think it's it's not
accessibility is like key,
but also creating like new systems
where people's incentives
are aligned more.
You know, like if you like,
that's why DeFi is great,
because even if like a big player
or something is trying to like,
you know, gobble up the space
or whatever, like take,
you know, own all the liquidity,
like they're incentivized
to not like completely fuck it up,
right, because then their shit
goes to zero along
with everyone else's.
And it's a pretty stark contrast
to like tradfire,
like, you know,
where we're at right now with things,
because it's, you know,
we're often at odds against
like our banks and shit.
And like, it shouldn't have
to be that way.
But yeah, that's fair.
But I mean, even to Vector's point,
he said we don't need
another NFT project.
Like we need more good being had.
But even in even in traditional
businesses web to write,
there's like a new clothing company
that drops, there's probably thousands
a day that try to get made.
Some who make it some who don't
at the end of the day,
I feel like we're regardless
of what industry you're in.
If you're there's always
gonna be products that are made,
whether it's like solving
a massive problem,
and you're looking to scale
like a billion dollar company
and it because it solves
a huge problem, or you're
just building out products
that you think a ton of users
or people might love,
or you want to build stories
or whatever it is like.
I understand you about the question
with the statement of it
was do we need to be made?
I'm not saying so do we need
a bunch of clothing companies?
Do we need a bunch of other things?
No, of course not.
The main point was the fact
of needing it.
Yes, we can all just
make whatever we want.
I'm like, I'll stop anybody.
I'm not the...
The difference is the difference
is the responsibility
to the money being raised
to make the product
in the first place.
And that's you're saying
the same thing,
but the difference is accountability.
That's the one.
I think that's what he was really
trying to get to for sure.
I have one more thing
to add really quick.
Yeah, because you were talking
about accessibility, right?
One thing that popped in my head
with NFT projects,
I see a lot of people
that are grinding
for these white lists
and they're the ones that get it.
And they turn like a free
meant that one of these NFTs
and some of them look like
someone just sold for like seven grand.
And it was all about
just hustling
and being a participant
and getting access to that meant
that made you get the financial gain.
So let's not act like
this is not about finance, right?
It's not really about t-shirts
and communities and things like that.
It's really about finance.
So making financial investments
accessible to people
that don't generally have access
to those kind of things
like VC and angel startup
kind of thing.
You can see it that way, right?
Because I don't have the time
to go and hustle
for those white lists,
but people that do,
They really want to go out there
and get it.
They actually make that profit
that I couldn't really get.
So I don't know.
That was just one idea
that I feel like
some of these NFT projects
do kind of help people
starting out and trying to grow
their wealth in that way.
Yeah, I'm not saying that don't.
I'm just saying that, you know,
well, one with the whole white listing,
people kind of, you know,
the whole, what is it,
like, over allocation?
That's an issue.
But besides that, though,
I'm not saying that
those people don't.
I'm saying the overall scale
of that, though, is very small.
You know, it's like, yeah.
And then even within that community,
a lot of those people, if you join,
you still have to grind for white list.
If you don't grind enough,
or if you aren't noticed
or whatever the case,
then you might not be picked at all.
But dude, I remember being a small account
and I pretty much still am,
to be honest,
but I remember having like 300,
400 followers
when I first started like the web
three kind of grind
and I remember the whitelist
and stuff like that.
And I will say, starting out
with a small bag,
you basically have to,
if you don't have a lot of capital,
but you have a lot of time,
then you have to basically grind
your ass off to get that capital.
And that's what I did.
And it really, it honestly sucks,
but it did make huge changes,
at least to like what
my bank account looked like,
like for sure.
And so I love the idea.
Like we see it all the time,
posts on the timeline where,
oh, thank you so much to X founder.
I just sold this.
I was able to pay off
like my daughter's tuition for college.
I was able to pay off
the rest of my mortgage.
Like obviously,
these are outlier scenarios
because the majority of the time
people aren't making,
you know, tens of thousands of dollars
from a flip, for example.
But I do like the idea
that some founders have genuinely
like changed people's lives.
And I think that's one of the
like coolest shit ever.
Like you've literally changed
like the trajectory
of a person's life
because they were like part of a community
or they purchased
or had access to Minta and NFT.
Like I just think it's super cool, man.
Like people paying their hospital bills
from like an accident
or like treating themselves
with like cancer
because they sold an NFT or something.
It's just fucking cool, man.
I love that shit warms in my heart.
But anyways, we're off.
We're off topic now a little bit,
but I was just rambling a little bit.
Go ahead, Andrew.
Thanks, Ruto.
I have a quick question.
So you've said a lot of stuff tonight.
I'm not sure what you've said.
You said a lot of stuff.
Did you retweet the space?
That's enough.
Okay, well, okay.
Thanks for reminding me.
Appreciate you.
Ruto, I will say this.
Money is a doubles game, right?
Just do the conversation.
Money is a doubles game.
If you have a thousand bucks
and you double that thousand bucks
from one thousand two thousand
two thousand four thousand on and on.
Your 10 doubles away
from making a million bucks liquidity.
If you tell me you today
cannot double a thousand bucks
ten times, right, in ten years.
So guys, that's once a year.
So I just once a year,
you'll be a millionaire in ten years
with a million dollars in liquid.
That's a pretty good amount of money.
Andrew, do what you want to do with.
What's up, double.
Did you know that that's
where my name comes from?
People think it has to do
with some kind of board eight or something.
But yeah, that's literally
what it means.
Oh, that's cool.
That's a good name.
Yeah, I know.
I mean, when you break it down like that.
Talk about doubling money
like in a kind of like vacuum now.
Like just double your money.
Like money doesn't just come from nothing.
Like it's not like a like,
I don't know, like people have lives
and circumstances that may not
make doubling such money like a thing.
I feel like it's weird to just be like,
if you just double your money
every time in ten years,
and just it's like,
more opportunities are available
to you now to double up your money
than ever before.
I think I think that's what
Rudy was kind of in this space
is showing that right?
Like you can, like you said,
you can take 100 bucks
come in this space,
do some DeFi,
get into a mean coin
that your friend told you about
and 1000X that that thing.
Next thing you guys definitely don't do that.
You guys are literally wildly optimistic.
This is crazy.
I've never heard such optimism.
I mean, you could do it.
Our people get it.
I want you guys to be like my fan club,
like definitely joking.
But I mean, the doubling of capital
makes sense.
I mean, you could literally buy
dead stock pair of shoes
or you can buy shoes for 100 bucks,
resell them for double that,
and you probably double your money
once a year.
It's not hard,
but I think people choose ignorance
because doing the hard thing every day
and doing the boring thing
is fucking hard work
and they rather choose the ignorant side
because it's easier to do.
I think it gets harder
as you grow, right?
So it's easy to double your money
when you have 100 bucks
or 1000 bucks.
When you get to 100K, 200K, right?
Then you can't just simply double it,
Because you're taking a lot of risk.
Then that's when you start to say,
hey, I like this 10%.
I like this 5% yield coming in.
I don't want to just dump it on,
you know, dog with hat
in one shot
and take a gamble
and lose it all, right?
So you got to be careful
as you keep doubling.
But the idea is to keep doubling
your money, right?
I mean, that's the simple terms,
but obviously you're not
just going to go
and hit a double every time.
You have to be very, you know,
careful as you grow.
You've doubled your money
last year once, right?
Like 2023, at least once?
I've doubled my money a lot of times.
So I'm good.
What did you use?
What did you use as the moat
to double your money?
Like, give me,
don't tell me to get coins.
No, I didn't make any money in here.
I made money in the regular world.
I didn't really double much money here.
I made some a little here and there,
but yeah, I'm just here.
Like I said, I mean,
I feel like I'm an entrepreneur.
That was my bad.
I apologize.
That was on me.
No, I was just going to say,
like I'm like an entrepreneur.
So this space,
like I was,
what do you call it?
Attracted to the space
by all the,
like entrepreneurial spirit I saw.
And honestly,
the direct to consumer
and all the finance going on here.
I felt like I can bring my power here.
So I came here to learn
and ended up being a community member,
So I'm still learning.
I feel like starting a business
in web 3 is actually much harder
than it is web 2
with all of like the transparency,
the community building,
like all of that stuff
is a lot of pressure
and a lot of stuff
that adds complexity
to your bottom line business
that you don't necessarily
really need, right?
Like if I want to start a clothing company,
I should probably should just
start doing it normally
and not add like the complexity.
There's no floor price,
a community.
Yeah, you're basically
a publicly traded startup.
So like your assets
are technically publicly traded
because someone can dump it
and now you're down 20%
and people hate you.
And then the startup aspect
of things where you are
building a team from mostly from zero.
And you also do have people
to respond to,
whether it's your VCs,
your community members.
So yeah, you're absolutely right.
There's so much more complexity
and my heart goes out
to all the founders here
that are doing it
from literally zero to nothing
or from zero,
nothing to something.
Like it's way too tough.
All the founders out here
doing it from zero to nothing,
man, my heart's out to you.
Like exactly a lot of them
are doing zero to nothing.
Or they go to zero
to 10 million to nothing.
So it's probably better both.
Yeah, do you know what?
And this is kind of,
I think there's a big attribute
that like a good founder has
when it comes to just launching
a product or a brand
from like nothing basically
is I think you gotta have
really good taste too.
Because how many times
have we seen projects
that come out and you're like,
this is terrible.
Like, or the marketing campaigns
are super mid
or the art is terrible.
Or even the people
that they bring on
just aren't very good.
Like, I think being a tastemaker
is incredibly important
when it comes to like
being a founder.
If you want to sell a brand
specifically like character IPs
when it comes to like
these PFP projects.
Like if you don't have good taste
and you want to try
and start a project,
it's probably going to be
pretty garbage.
Because that's just the reality of it.
I mean, I can't name
how many projects I've seen
founders talk like
if this is going to be
the next big thing.
But I'm like this,
the branding is horrible.
The marketing campaigns
are terrible.
Like, the merch,
don't get me started on merch
because I will absolutely
flame everyone's merch
that they drop for the most part.
But I think being a good founder
also means being a good
like tastemaker.
And I don't know if I complete that.
Tweet that, that's pretty good.
That also plays into the question
too that Victor and others raised
that like, do you need to do an NFT?
Because that's like a question
like talking about earlier,
me, you know,
wanting to do something
when they do a project.
One of the things
that I often come back to
came back to was,
okay, but like,
what's the value
and what's the value prop
of the NFT here?
Like, why is the NFT needed
in terms of like,
if it's a PFP, right?
Traditional?
Or is it going to be like something else?
Whether it's like a PFP project.
The way I look at it is
I think there is a huge demand
for a specific type of branding
in the ecosystem.
And I think that no one's
either touched on it
or I think there's a really big gap
between like what the demand is for it
and how many available products
or like NFTs are out there
that meet that demand.
I'm just saying there's
just from like a business perspective.
I think there's like a huge gap
and I think there's a big demand
for this gap.
And that's what I'm thinking
is like a really good opportunity as well.
And I agree with you.
I think like even not knowing
what exactly you're talking about
but there are gaps out there
in terms of even just different imagery
of what we've seen
or different aesthetics.
But also there are gaps
in terms of stuff
that maybe hasn't been used.
Even things I've thought about.
So I totally get that.
I think my thing also too
is kind of playing into like
almost like a double set of
let's be realistic.
This is also finance as well.
And we've all played this game
long enough that
yeah we're all sporting our PFPs
and here are various projects
or maybe you have something else
that's fine.
But over time like during the bull
remember like it seems all the time
there is like sporting this PFP,
sporting this PFP,
this new PFP.
Really now you don't see
a lot of people like sporting
and really wanting to represent
like a brand as much.
You know what I mean?
Outside of like what we see in mass.
So there's also that question of like
do you want to just be another round
of like liquidity for everyone?
Like that surge?
That hype?
Or do you have like staying power
of kind of the stuff
you're talking about?
Like product or even a vision
of the brand to build out.
Which you know I think
you're more than capable of.
Just like good points
made by everyone in here.
I think that's great.
Like if you have product
that's obviously the goal, right?
If you can answer a problem
through product
like that your solution
then I think you're off to the races.
And if you can build
an entity around that somehow
then even more power to you.
Like to go into like what
click and vector
we're also talking about
because I think that
does ring to frame.
But if it's just a question
about that, like what?
Yeah, what what?
The top projects today
that we know of, right?
Like what problem did they solve?
I think it's different now.
I think you can't relate it, right?
Like it's if you look
at a lot of the major projects
that launched today
I don't think like if they just launched
on what they did back then
they wouldn't survive.
They just wouldn't survive.
And I don't care about what PFP
you have in here all the way
from up to a UGA asset
to mine to everyone else is in between.
They wouldn't have survived
for the majority just from their starts.
Remember, they would have been stripped
of like their their provenance to now
people knowing them all of that
take all that meta out.
They launched today
with what they launched then.
I think it would have been a lot harder.
But then then you get it
like crypto undeads are like what
they didn't solve a problem
and it's still that's what I said.
I think that that blew my mind.
I think that blew my mind happening.
So I was more of like that.
So like I just say this right.
I don't I don't think
at least in NFTs
you don't have to solve
a problem here specifically, right?
Because again, like like
the front facing product here
is art entertainment.
I think is important
and that doesn't solve a problem, right?
Like and I don't understand
why doubles like dumb stumps me
I'm saying that the ideal
that the ideal solution
to have a product if it's art
that's fine because I'm
always solve a problem
either though, right?
Like a plushie is not
it does not solve a problem, right?
And like and I wanted to go
to double on this too
because it's like I don't understand
why he's something down
because I don't you guys
and solve the problem either, right?
Yeah, really quick.
Let me answer.
Well, let him let him let him finish double
just real quick. Go ahead, July.
Well, no, no, I think that's really it.
Like I just don't understand
that why we have to always come to
like there needs to be a problem
that needs to be solved.
No, there doesn't.
Sometimes it's like if if there's
like if there's a rally behind it
and people like it for whatever reason,
I think that's that's plenty enough.
And when we're asking like, why is there?
Why does there need to be more NFTs
or should we make an NFT, right?
Like, yes, I think everybody
should make an NFT personally.
That's my opinion.
Like whether it sells out or not
is whatever, right?
But I think everybody should make an NFT
and so they have an understanding
of blockchain, right?
That's just education, right?
But like, let's let's just break it down
for I'm trying to gather my thoughts here
because a lot was said.
So I apologize.
I'm trying to really hone in this, right?
But okay, if we do need more NFTs, right?
Because if we care about
like this blockchain and NFTs and crypto
and dah, dah, dah, dah, and we talk about
this thing needs to be more mainstream
and whatever and like,
how do we catch people's attention?
Well, obviously everybody else failed.
So if another 10 million people try,
one of them is going to succeed, right?
Or we hope to, right?
So let another 10 million more people
make an NFT, let them all fail
and let that one person succeed, right?
The only person we're seeing success from
as of today is Luca, right?
So let's go see another 10 million people fail
and one of them will be successful
and we'll all be happy again, right?
And then people lose money.
I don't know.
No, but people lose money everywhere
in anything you do, right?
Let me add to what you're saying.
Even in the, hold on.
I'm not going to accelerate it so true though.
You're on to something
until you said make 10 million more projects.
I'd rather not accelerate the rate
of people currently losing money.
Wait, let me add to this point
because I agree with most of what you're saying.
But I think the point
that I think you're trying to make is like,
I think the underlying technology
has solved the problem
or is solving the problem of digital ownership, right?
It's not necessarily that these projects
are solving a problem.
They're using the underlying technology
that has solved the problem.
So now you're building on top of that
and you're trying to build a marketplace
on top of that, right?
So that's why you don't necessarily
have to solve the problem.
It's a problem being solved by the tech.
Same thing with Bitcoin, right?
Bitcoin is solving a problem
where of digital cash, peer-to-peer cash,
like that's the problem it's set out to solve.
And that's why this is all about finance, right?
Because Bitcoin is literally money.
It's trying to disrupt the financial system.
So you can't get away from the fact
that we're dealing with finance here, right?
That's why it's called DeFi, right?
So the problems you're trying to solve now,
like in DeFi, for example,
is like trying to get sustainable yield, right?
And there's all different types of problems
people are trying to solve,
but the underlying technology
is really solving the problem.
So I agree with you.
You just want to build on top of that now
and find success on top of that later
and on top of that marketplace.
So if you're selling, that's why
it's not really about art,
it's not about games,
it's not about any of these specific things,
it's like all of them encompass.
Well, let me simplify it a little bit
because I think people are kind of,
they're at a loss for words
at like what they're trying to explain.
And I try to explain it very simply.
If you look at the top performing projects,
whether it be because they launched
at a perfect time, bull market,
you know, a better,
they have provenance,
they've been around for a long time,
whatever it is.
Ultimately, if you look at projects
like Pudgy Paying Winds,
obviously, everyone's talking about them.
The price is going up,
so everyone's having a good time.
But if you really narrow it down
and really niche it down as small as you can,
I believe that the best products
don't need to solve a thing.
Of course, solving a problem is great,
but you don't necessarily need to.
I think what you can do,
if you're able to build incredibly fun
and engaging digital experiences,
then I think that in and itself
is a great product.
If you think about how much fun
people have during the mint process,
during a reveal process,
during the hype that's happening
around the Pudgy ecosystem,
everyone's having a great time
because number go up.
But also think of the experiences
they have at IRL events
or meeting new people.
I think more and more
web 3 and NFTs,
I think digital experiences
are playing a much bigger role
in the ideation process for products
moving into the future.
I just truly believe that utility
isn't all that great,
but I think a good user experience
digitally is for sure
something that is amazing
and that's what people want.
Do you think boredom is a problem?
I think boredom is a problem for humans,
and that's why entertainment
is solving that problem,
for example, right?
Yeah, I mean,
power is a problem for people
so they want to get rich, right?
So that's two problems
that we're solving.
Entertainment while you're investing
in earning money.
And I think people like younger people
are getting into investing this way
rather than like, you know,
reading a 10k on some corporate
corporation doing like pharmacy
or their pharma, big pharma.
No, you're like, okay,
I want to invest in this this anime
project that I love.
And it's I relate to it more.
So I want to put my money here
and grow it this way.
I think it's just like,
like that kind of
Well, dude, I just think humans
are really simple creatures, man.
I think it deep down in our DNA,
we we like to be part or
or feel like we're part of
something bigger than ourselves.
We like being engaged with other people
who share similar interests.
And I think we enjoy having fun
with people around us
that share those similar interests.
And if you think about it,
PFP NFTs and these community
based character IPS,
that's essentially the biggest value
prop in most of them, in my opinion,
obviously people are in our generation.
We did that all for free.
And right, exactly.
And you can make money doing it.
So yeah, so that's why when people
like you need to solve a problem
or like you need to provide something
for the greater good,
like those are all really great
kind of virtuous things.
But in my opinion,
if you just build a product
that resonates with a ton of people
and they are having fun online,
I think that's good enough, man.
And of course, you can
you can compound that
and have other things, products,
merch, events
that would still be solving a problem.
It's just not a very big problem
that you want to actually
acknowledge you're solving.
Right, okay.
So that's a good thing.
Who used to be door to door and sell knives?
Most of the problems that we see success with
are just iterations
and what is that success in the back,
but their own like in the past,
but their own spin.
It doesn't have to be answering
a new problem.
And I think people got lots
and like I said, ideal,
like yeah, the ideal solution.
If you can answer like a new fresh problem,
cool, you're the first player on the market.
But I'm not saying like, you know,
Adidas sees Nike
so they don't make the data.
It's like, no, like or vice versa, whatever.
Like, I'm not saying that.
I'm just saying if you can answer
even an existing one
that's already been answered,
even if it is a PFC project
but everybody's like,
you're intending to do more with it,
whatever, then great.
Like that's awesome.
But I think double
actually made a great point
like being bored is a problem.
Yes, it is.
It is for everyone.
And a lot of like on most brands
in terms of like entertainment,
they try to give you a solution to that problem.
They're all the same solution.
Just their spin on it.
Yeah, that's a good take.
I want to pass around
the room a little bit here.
I'll chime out after this.
I just want to say,
I think the best way to look at it
and I've actually had to
have struggled with this
in terms of presenting products
is as you go from blue ocean
to green ocean to red ocean,
you're in a red ocean
and in a green ocean,
you are solving problems.
But in an emerging
technology field or sector,
you are capturing untapped opportunity.
So it is basically
finding liquidity whatever you can.
So it is weird
because I'm used to pitching saying
what's the problem?
How are you solving it?
Hasn't been solved before.
If it hasn't, why not?
If it has, how are you doing it better?
And I find in this emerging tech space,
it's more about
there's just untapped liquidity,
there's untapped opportunity.
There's also obviously
the inverse of that,
which is greed and theft and shit.
But there's just a lot of things
that just haven't been thought of yet.
Yeah, and I think there's
everyone thinks that,
oh, there's a ton of saturation.
And I actually don't believe that.
I think if you think about
where most of the capital
and liquidity is going,
it's being heavily consolidated
into maybe the top 10,
top 20 sort of projects,
whether it be gaming
or kind of the top tier
PFP meta style projects.
So I think there's huge chunks
of market share
that are still left on the table.
I just think like I mentioned earlier,
I think there's a huge gap
between where the demand is
and what the end product is.
And I think there is a ton of room
for someone to come in
and do something interesting
that caters to the needs
or wants of those users who
can't find another product
on the market that they want, right?
Some people don't like
Some people don't like monkeys.
Some people don't like pixel art.
Some people don't like anime, you know,
like there's just so many
different segments in the market
that you can beat
that can be filled right now.
And there's just not quality projects
enough that are filling those marks.
So I want to pass it around
to the room a little bit.
Andrew, go for it, brother.
You obviously have host privilege.
I don't want to pass over to outer
because they just they just got
brought up here.
So go for it.
Thanks for it.
Yeah, others always a good chat.
One of the happiest people
in crypto Twitter by far,
and it's real happiness.
It's not just let's pretend
to be happy because we're here.
I will say, though,
we're on the topic of conversation
of new products
and kind of creating that blue ocean.
The vigil said the one product
that I would love to see get done
absolutely would be fantastic.
And you keep that
as a subscription model.
I promise you guys little to no overhead.
You'll do all right.
If you if you have it rolled out,
you have a fleshed out.
DM me to don't get me.
Don't get me started
on micro sass products
because I will go on tangents
and that will make my pants.
Wait, do you say micro sass?
Micro sass products.
Oh my God, I haven't even heard of that before.
Did you see the did you see the kid
that or the guy or whoever made
an AI like sass product
charging like 20 bucks a month
that will like respond
to your dating app inquiries
or text messages that you made
like millions of dollars.
Yeah, that's a that's
a micro sass product.
You basically hyper fixate
on a super small problem
that tons of people have
and you charge like $5.99 for it.
Multi subscription.
You got some MRR there
and then yeah, you anyways,
I don't want to go down this route
because that's a huge rabbit hole
and I could talk about it forever.
But yeah, micro sass products.
The best business model in the world.
It's the best business product
in the world
because one person can build it
and it takes very minimal overhead.
Like if any at all
and you can scale it to millions of dollars.
Okay, anyways, I want to go
pass it around to to outer.
I want to get back on top.
If we were talking about,
you know, just utility
or like branding
or what it means to create a project,
you know, whether it be
digital experiences, whatever that is.
So just so we're back on track here.
Go ahead for it.
Go for it outer.
Hey, thanks, Trudeau.
Thanks for inviting me up, Andrew.
Nice to meet you, Salamander
and everyone else.
I mainly like put up my hand
to say something
because I was listening to Chul talk
about like many more and more projects
and I just wanted to drop
like a quantity on you guys
because I think this is like
so relevant in talking
about the creation of projects.
TLDR for me is I've been working
on a traits database
for PFP projects
because I'm making a coffee table book
and and also doing some stuff
on the research side.
And so I have 7700 projects
that I scraped just on proof of work
that are PFP projects
and I had to set certain parameters.
But as I was developing my like
my scraping methods
for how I'm going to get like,
you know, all the projects
that are on E.
Some of the earlier tests I did
gave me some insight
and this one particular test
I wanted to share
because it's so like
when it hit me in the face
I was like holy shit
I can't believe I'm staring at this
this is fucked.
So I ended up scraping
in January of 2022
I want to say.
So if you remember
there was like a huge
huge rush of projects coming out.
July was kind of like
just about to peak
then it was August
September was insane
you know so and so
and then it just kept going.
So I set my parameters
because I was going after
the OpenSea API
which means I was saying
Hi OpenSea
you have a database
give me some shit
here's my code for people
that don't know
and I said okay
here's what I want.
I want all of the projects
starting from your most recent one
to as far back as you can go.
I want only 721 tokens.
This is me being like
a bit naive at first
and I want them to have
at least a 0.001 trading volume
because I don't want like pure rugs.
So I thought if there's
a little bit of traded
this will give me something
and yeah proof of work
I could have done on my own
like later after I got all the data
so I'm like just give me everything
and so I did this first scraping
and I found out that I was limited
to only pulling 55,000 projects
and then even with the key
I still couldn't do more
like I contacted somebody there
that I knew and they're like
yeah no it's not happening
like that's the limit
but here's the fucking crazy thing
when I pull that data set
I only pulled four projects
out of the 55,000
that actually had trading volume
0.001 that were
I had a supply of over 5000
for the ones I wanted
so that was my criteria
and that was 721 token projects
55,000 projects going back
like from January 2022
to I don't know how many days
right because I didn't
temporarily look at it
because I didn't give a fuck
I was like that's not enough
I need more
but like that was insane
like how many projects went up
that nobody gave a shit about
or ever saw that are in a database
that don't have traits
because they were never revealed
so that never went
into the metadata right obviously
me looking at the data and blinking
I remember I was like
I think I was in a hotel
and I'm just like what the fuck
what did I just scrape
this is insane
so of course I revised
my methodology entirely
for getting my actual data set
of PFP projects
but that was the first foray
into developing the algorithm
and me really understanding
how much shit was minted
as a rug in that time period
so when I hear too
they'll be like we need more
from my end I'm like holy fuck
let's not have more like data
for the sake of having data
but I'm just being funny about it
like it's not that deep
I just wanted to share the 55k story
Can I ask you a question real quick?
About the like what actually makes
a project a project
in your criteria
because is it just like a collection
like I know you said trading volume
could I put up a collection
and then trade between myself
and do that
like what made it an actual collection
I'm just curious
or a project
Yeah so the thing that happened there
was just me testing my scraping
what I was really after are traits
so the very like yeah
so my 77k that I have
actually have traits
and they have metadata for traits
and then I have like
there's a lot of visual verification
that goes in for me as well
which is why it's taking me
a long time to build my database
because like when a project
goes in fucking name 3d glasses
2.5d glasses like Ranga does
how the fuck do I put that in right
so like the nomenclature of this
is actually a big thing for me
to be able to then have a platform
where you can like look up 3d glasses
and it shows you everything
that's been labeled and a glyph
and fucking like whatever other synonym
you have for that
and goblins really fucked me over
no shade I have one
but like it was just I love all of it
don't get me wrong
but like holy fuck
was that ever wild
like to be in the wild wild west of it
and yeah I don't know
it's just wild
but yeah to your to your like
that foray into it
was not me like defining a PFP project
because like I have a lot that I pull
that I see that I just passes
for instance right like and keys
and fucking like deeds
and so many other things
that don't have traits
but there's some manual grooming
that I cannot automate obviously
because it's such a visual endeavor
so yeah but that's a really
that's a really dope
how insane is it
the fact that there has been
and those parameters that you set
was basically just 2022 right
you said it was like beginning of 2022
if I'm not mistaken outer
yeah so that was in
that was in January of 2022
and like since then
I changed my first eye now
ice cream supply and point
and then like I just did the low volume
because again I can like
once I pull the data
I can then fuck with it after that right
but there's projects that I did
like if I say 721 tokens
that I'm excluding gutter cats right
because they're actually they're 20
so like yeah there's a lot of other nuance
and like making a robust data set like this
but ultimately I can then just be like
okay I actually want the top volume projects
for certain traits
but I wanted like the bottom barrel
of everything at first
but I didn't realize that there was a limiter
on on open seas API
I was like fuck me
55k who does this
I expected like millions
well could it be a scrape
Ruto I was gonna say
to kind of like back up
I was like stuff too
I remember that I looked up
like a dune dashboard
that like monitored Ethereum
it was like really going through
in terms of like even projects
that were releasing
I think it's still out there
there's probably a few of them
but it literally showed that like
during heights of the bull
there were days that you know
over a thousand projects
were released on Ethereum
so I'm not surprised at all
to hear outer's claim
of what she pulled
even with her parameters
because 55k to me is a low number
because I remember I was blown away
when I pulled out that dashboard
and I'm like okay
let's check out this day
let's check out this day
and I thought at the bottom
it was giving me like a range
I was like oh no
I want the daily
and it was
it was giving me the daily
literally over a thousand projects
some days during the height of the bull
and then when everything tapered off
after like you know
moonbirds
and other side mint
you literally noticed
everything drop off
in terms of like volume a day
projects a day
all of that
it just changed
but there are heights of the bull
I'm not surprised
if you pulled that far back
yeah there's days
that there's probably over 2000
who knows
so that's insane
that like 55k met your range
or criteria
even to begin with to me
yeah I mean I think
it's pretty it's pretty crazy
that there's at this point
I'm convinced there's been easily
well over a hundred thousand collections
that have tried to be minted
but we only ever really see
maybe that the top even if
I don't even think it's 1%
we're literally not even
on a daily basis
talking about the 1%
but I mentioned it earlier
I think it's just a huge factor
is that most of them are
if not all of them
are just pretty shit man
I think they're super low effort
most of them just try to come in
for the opportunity
to make a little bit of money
and then dip out
but I think you can always tell
a genuine founder
that's trying to make some
you know make some noise
by you know making something
that's kind of interesting at least
and I mentioned it earlier
that I think having good taste
it plays a huge role
in how good of a project
you actually make
and I would argue
a lot of people
don't have very good taste
with a lot of things
not just NFTs
but I think you kind of
all get the idea here
but yeah I don't want to ramble
either I want to get to some hands
Andrew go for it brother
So what would you say
about the founder
that cares about the space
but they do want to push
a good product
or good products
whatever it may be
gaming software
doesn't matter
they want to push it
but they're interested
in scaling the business
more revenue profit
all that stuff
profit maximization
whatever you want to call it
opposed to caring about
the betterment of the space
and kind of serving the industry
which you kind of take
on founders like that
because I think
that there's going to be
more of those type classification
of people
just because they see
well they get pretty green
behind the ears
for the fact that
when people think of this industry
they think of you know
money money money
and guys it's true
there's a lot of money here
because it's new right
I mean even 20 years ago
back with other
this but there was some money there
so what's your take on
like founders like that
really position themselves
like that
and we've seen this
I think more are coming
and like they're leaving
their corporate job
and in web two
I'm gonna stop saying that too
they come here
because they know
they can make more money
yeah I mean we're always
gonna see that kind of stuff
and it's funny to me
because a lot of people
put such a big emphasis
that like oh well this person
is gonna make a great project
because they're like
ex insert fortune 100 company
or something like that
but the reality is
is that most of the time
people see
they're just very opportunistic
and so they see the amount of money
that floats around in this space
and I've been saying it
time and time again
that your previous success
doesn't mean at all
or like your previous experience
for whatever company worked at
does not mean that
you're gonna understand
the culture here
does that mean that
you have good taste
does not mean
that you know how to cater
to a community
that doesn't mean
any of those things
and we've seen that
time and time again
so like to answer your question
I think we will see
those founders
but I think we've matured
us tiny tiny bit
I'm not gonna say
we've matured a lot
because I think that's pretty clear also
but I think we're able to sift
like you know
sniff that out a little bit more
than usual
but my second answer is that
let's say you are looking
to build out a product
or service
or like whatever is
around an NMT project
I think you're in a better position
if you're able to scale
like the brand distribution of that
get a lot of people
to buy into like
just your brand in general
if you wanted to
or services
for example
like it's the main reason why
a lot of projects have
especially character based
IP PFP projects
one of their biggest issues
is that they do not know
how to monetize
or generate revenue
solely based off of a character IP
and that makes sense to me
but if you look at big projects
if they wanted to make
a quick hundred grand
or something like that
then they could drop like
a limited merch item
or something like that
sell hoodies for a hundred bucks
and then generate some revenue
but that's not sustainable
so now we're seeing
the next wave
or evolution of these IP brands
and they're looking to scale
out into anime
or Pudgy Penguins
with gaming
and also like
e-commerce stuff
so we're going to see
this evolution
but in all reality
most founders
or even future ones
aren't going to be able
to do that
the reason and we can go
to the hands after this
the reason why I asked that
is because I've been here
for probably about two years now
some of you have been here
longer than me
probably most of you have
some of you have been here
for a little shorter
whatever it may be
the one thing that I've come to learn
and this is through
the accountability mirror
that I put in front of my face
there's such a massive
and such a large ignorance tax
that all of us
have to constantly pay
so like I mean that
when I say that
because it's such a
constant learning curve
it's like you learn a sport
you get 85% of it done
within 10 years
and then or five years
whatever it is
and then you're a pro
hour spent
whatever it is
this space from what I'm seeing
there's a constant
ignorance tax
that has to be paid
so last year this time
up today this time
like in a full year's
12 months full circle
we've probably collectively
have paid
so much more ignorance tax
just by being in this space
meaning learning new things
that do not do
and they're constantly coming up
that I don't know
how new people are going to
kind of you know
figure it out in this space
like I can only imagine
if I'd come in now
I'd argue that there's more stuff
I'd have to be mindful of now
than I did two years ago
and like it's
God if you're new in this space
I'll tell you this
just keep paying your
ignorance tax
pay down as much as you can
and just know that the
us that have been here
six seven years
do not have it all figured out
and I said this today
if someone says
they're an expert
and they have expert in their bio
your best bet
is to block them
get out of their space
and run away
because nobody is an expert
in something
that's so new and emerging
yeah or just hire my friends
to tell you
to just hit my line in the cabal
I'll hit up the cabal
and they'll probably
you know shoot you in the right
the right place
so I'll be yeah
let's get some hands here
we've got a couple people waiting
go for it South
whoever you think you want to go to
I have no idea who's next
to be honest
you know I have not heard from
Miyagi today
so Miyagi what's good
nice to see you
also dude
is that an augment
is that the what's it called
kaiju kings did that right
I still have mine in my wallet
yes indeed
what's up good night everyone
appreciate you having me on stage
shout out to ruto
shout out to the host
I just followed you both
shout out to the dashboard
and misty dude
shout out to chulo
a lot of good homies on stage
yes this is the kaiju kings augmented
I've had this as my profile picture
for like two years
I was the 500th person to mint it
it's my name
if you go on the metadata
it is Miyagi
there's a lot to unpack here
in this conversation
I've been up here for like an hour
and honestly a beautiful conversation
I love your enthusiasm with the space
it kind of reminded me
of when I first got into the space
but I guess something that I guess
I'll just give a take
because there's so much
so much that was spoken about
but I think in terms of
you know building a project
advice and you know
solving problems
I think it's all about intention
like if especially
especially with the inception of
ordinals and descriptions
like the explosive you know
nft nature exploding across blockchains
I think it's very important that
if you're here now
whether you're a participator
you know you're here for money
I think it's important that you
solidify yourself on the blockchain
in some shape or form
because in 10, 20, 30 years
like that's what's going to matter
like obviously the money that you
make will matter
and that will translate you know
to college and houses
but you want to be able to
look back in 20 years
and be like look at this project
I did you know
and with that said
I don't believe that every person
or every team or every you know
one who wants to create something
in web3 needs to have
some type of you know
venture capitalists
Ponzi-nomics you know
huge you know VC whatever
like I think I truly believe
that you can create in this space
and move forward
if you have the right intention
when you have the question
of what problem are you solving
I really think that it's like
what type of community
or what type of demographic
are you you know associating
your project with
or what are you building with
and how could you leverage that
you know to kind of boost
the ecosystem of web3
and to kind of give like
a small example it's like
when Azuki blew up you know
all the way a few years ago
that was like the leading anime project
and it's like all of the communities
all across the world
who loved anime
who loved the culture
they gathered in the garden
and they you know they prop that up
whatever your opinion is
it doesn't matter
I'm not talking about opinion
I'm talking about facts
and what happened
and it's like
they were able to you know
find a niche
build a community
and now it's like that
it's sunset no matter what happens
and I just think
to finish my little rant is that
if you're trying to create in the space
if you're trying to be a project founder
you can create
if you have good intentions
as long as while you're creating
and while you're moving forward
you're paying attention
to the dynamics
that are happening around you
so you can leverage that
I think founders have a bad time
when like they launch a profile picture project
or something like that
or like launch a profile picture product
that's attached to some utility
but if the profile pictures are attached
to some utility
and 90% of your community's degens
they might not understand that
and the same thing vice versa
if you have you know a degen project
for you know all your investors
or maybe people are like you know devs
and they want things
it might not work out
so yeah I appreciate you guys
giving me the stage
and letting me rant
I just had a pretty decent take on this
because I've been here
for a couple of years
and I've seen founders
I've worked with founders
and I just think that
it can be very overwhelming
trying to create in this space
with the standards you have around
like look at crypto undeads
like nobody fucking knows who they are
and they have you know
a gazillion dollars of volume
if you look at that
as a you know independent creator
you're like how the fuck
could I put up with that?
Don't worry about it
you're not supposed to
just keep moving
you know find your niche
find your intention
and you know kind of build
with your community
so thank you
yeah that last one was a beggar
yo don't don't worry
if you don't know
then don't worry about it
keep it pushing
I fucking love that
because that's true
that sounds like some advisory
like it's not only you got scammed
and that's what you got
in your 30-minute call
like well as too low
I was his alpha caller
and field line fiends
a couple years ago
like me and Chulo
been shooting in the gym for years
so watch out salamander
I think though
but that you kind of made
a good point at the end there bro
maybe not even buy on purpose
but it's funny
because if you're someone
that's looking to make something
let's say an NFT project
and you're trying to reverse engineer
the success of other projects
but you hear it all the time
either from other founders
why is this doing so well
but like I'm not
or this isn't like
I don't get it
I always say it's like
if you don't understand
why things are going well
whether you like it or not
then you're probably not in a position
to like ship anything
worth anything
because you need to be able
to navigate this industry
and understand how everything operates
if you see crypto undeads
and they're absolutely crushing it
from the marketing side
and they minted out instantly
they're getting secondary volume
but you don't know why that is
and you're just like hatin
then you probably aren't in a position
to either understand
what you're trying to build
or even cater to any sort of like
web3 community member
to be honest
so good point there
I just wanted to piggyback on that
and again this is not an insult
this is just an example
it's literally like
the Nakamigos community
when they were pumping
back in the back like a year ago
like I don't know if you guys remember
but they literally pumped
for no reason
no one knew where they came from
and everyone was like
I want this
it's the next
and then those people
for dozens and hundreds
and have been bag holding for a year
it's crazy
he's here
yeah fidgetol
fidgetol's a real-time case study
and I love my case studies
fidgetol what do you what do you think
what Miyagi said there
okay that's fine
I checked that for a second
uh repeat yeah
yeah he brought up the uh
he brought up the Nakamigos
and how people are still holding the bag
of the thing that they confirmed
it had a confirmation bias on
I guess you can say that way
and they're still holding the thing
after a year's time
and it's done nothing
I think we're figuring out
what business arcs look like
in this space
my convictions are my convictions
it's certainly not meeting
the existing business expectations
so it's either too big to fail
or somehow still succeeding
while not meeting any expectations
in this space
are you can't admit that
you're wrong on that one or no
I'll speak to you in six to eight months
that's fine
but look at this right
like what defines success right
like floor price whatever
like if you wanted to find success
they sold out
they built the community
they built pretty much a fucking cult
you know people
some people benefit
whether it was dumping the bag
and other people
or the community that they have
that is not going to go stay go hard
so you know it all depends on your
definition of success
but my intention with the comparison
was like nobody knows
what the fuck is going on
and you just keep building
it's like the Spongebob and Patrick
where it's like
they put the piece of wood
in front of them
and they nail it
and then they step on it
and then they put the piece of wood
in front of them
and they nail it
and they step on it
it's like where are you going
it's like where are you going
because it's it's never made sense
so that's just my take
I'm sorry
somebody has to make that a photo
tomorrow and post it
Dot can you do it
Dot please
yeah I think uh
I think that's a good idea
I literally pictured in my head too
that's so funny dude
yeah let's
I don't want to
I don't want to monologue anymore
so I'm going to go pass it over
to some more hands
um uh Kev
I see you've had your hand raised
for quite some time
so I want to pass it over to you
go for it brother
appreciate y'all having me
been enjoying the conversation
and all the information
getting passed around here
appreciate you giving me
the opportunity to talk
so it's a little different
I want to keep it quick
and not get totally off topic
but I'm not starting an NFT project
but I guess it qualifies as
being a founder in some sense
because what I am doing
is launching a platform
that enables private transactions
on Ethereum
and hoping to get it launched
out this quarter
but while I know it's not
you know the specific NFT thing
some of the challenges
are still the same
specifically you know
getting started trying to generate
like a following base
wait so I could
launder money with this
is this like tornado cash
but is it like what's happening
yeah tsunami cash
so there's you know
of course tornado cash
huge hit back in the day
they had they enjoyed seven years
something like seven billion dollars
in volume
but then it turns out
that there were North Korean hackers
laundering money through them
which the US and other governments
had an issue with
yeah no anyway
no that what makes this different
is all the transactions
are tracked
and you know if a government agency
comes knocking
I'm able to give a wallet
of theirs permission
to kind of peer behind the curtain
if you will
and see they can then look up addresses
just like you would be able to
and get their scan
but that that permission does not exist
you know to the public right
so it's kind of like a bank
where you know the government can see
what you're doing on there
but nobody really gives a fuck
we're all just kind of doing our thing
and and socially nobody can see
your financial history right
so that's kind of the idea here
since that that privacy aspect
doesn't exist in crypto currently
I think it's going to be necessary
as you know we see wider adoption
and everything else
all right so I'm going to let this
alpha go real quick
I don't care if this space isn't recorded
anytime you see a link
drainer you take it
and you find the contract code
and then you recreate it
and then you drain yourself
this is big brain IRS
you drain yourself with the dap
to a wallet that you created
and that way the IRS cannot track you
you have proof
this is the real alpha
you drain yourself with the contract
and then you tell the IRS
I don't know what happened
because Japanese guys stole my shit
and then that's it
and then you make a bazillion dollars bro
you know what's funny
is that you guys are laughing
but that's 1 billion percent
exactly what a ton of people do
just so you guys know a lot of people
and I'm not condoning this
this is recorded
I don't even know
I'm condoning it
if it's recorded
I don't give a fuck
come find me
I just don't care
is there a spongebob meme for that too?
because I'm here for it
oh there certainly is somewhere
it's all of the spongebobs
running in circles
with the filing cabinets
and everything's on fire
we threw it away
did I find the ledger?
find the sea freeze
get the phones out
get the phones out
can I add to that real quick?
that's kind of funny
so I've been reaching out
to a bunch of card
and collectible sellers
and a lot of them are on Instagram
and they will post their cards
and collectibles on Instagram
with prices
and then people will be like
hey I want to buy that
and then they'll just like
Venmo each other
or PayPal each other
but it's just funny
because it's like
just like literally
it's just tax evasion
but I'm like
like whatever you got to do bro
but you know
it's just funny
because yeah
I am not here to support
any form of tax evasion
or a list of activity
so with Coinbase
here's another alpha
with Coinbase
if you live in America
you have to claim
if you make more
than like 10k or something
so have your mom
your grandma
your cousin
your nephew
and then I'd probably send it
banned through like
she's like 6 years old
like guys
Miyagi is fucking like
this man's out of control
I'm ruining 6 year old
niece's credit
from day one
ruining bro
she's gonna have
sitting in her wallet
she's gonna be like
oh thanks for the college fund
does she have crypto
and debt in there?
does that mean
in 15 years
if that shit ain't worth
at least 10 bans
then we all fucked up
holy shit
my eyes are literally watering
because I just died laughing man
someone take the mic
look it's 11 45
it's Thursday
you know we're getting a little funny
I'm a part of a
you know me and Ruto
we be professional
in the mornings
we have our shows
but you know
it's late night
we being honest
you know like
man what do I got to hide
like you know
and I should
I go to the events
and people know
what the fuck I look like
what the fuck you want
oh man that is
that's really good
um I have no idea
how he went from
okay what kind of founders
talking about brand distribution
character IP
and then immediately
going into tax evasion
I asked a simple question
and it was how do you start from zero
with the following
and then he went to
here's how you launder money
and avoid the IRS
while you're at it
here's some advice
to launch a project
this is how
Miyagi came out of nowhere
fuck everything you know
here's how the fuck
you're gonna get rich
I'll tell you
and I don't give a fuck
if this is recorded
like bro this man's out of control
I was watching a Lex Friedman podcast episode
where I think it was Mark Andreessen
or something
and there was a Michael Saylor ad there
and it wasn't actually him
it was deep fake AI
Michael Saylor advertisement
and it said that he was giving away
free Bitcoin
to scan the thing
and I'm like
how the fuck is YouTube allowing this to happen?
Don't they have ad filtrations
or something
like this is ridiculous
I'm like they
I just came in my head
I was like man
maybe they're inside the man
because this is too ridiculous
bro the entire world is a scam
like you know
you know it's the biggest thing
like for instance
like I joined the space
in about two years ago
to like almost a day
it was like January like first
like two years ago
and the reason why I got involved
in this space
is because the concept of
freedom from the government
and like how they don't have control
when you join this space
it's like half of these people
want the government
to control their assets
because they just click links
and they fucking make
four financial decisions
that is fucking hilarious
right it's crazy
and then you got like
Elizabeth Warren and others
trying to say
that self-custody wallets
are a downfall
and you know
we need to ban that immediately
and all that
and I think
a valid concern though
on a more serious note
would be a huge issue
and to see the government
ban something like that
before it even had enough traction
to get people upset
that it was being banned
is a pretty scary thought
dude once the tosh
once the toshi wakes up
and goes in his computer
and goes boop boop boop boop
we're all done anyways
once it's over
that's pretty heavy
yeah okay
let's let's get to some more hands
I want to try
thanks for having me up here
no I appreciate you Kev
seriously appreciate you tuning in man
do you have me some time
I'm interested to hear
some of your go to market strategy
with that product too
yeah just follow
appreciate you brother
okay let's go over to some more hands
I want to pass it over to Chulo
and then go over to Outer
and I think we'll go
everything's off with not a sheep
Chulo go for it brother
okay okay okay
I mean look there's a lot
that just happened
I have nothing to add
to what Miyagi said
you know respect
okay the rest of this like
won't be funny guys
so you guys can stop
throwing the laughing emojis
I'm not going to make you guys laugh
probably is probably
gonna be boring
but anyways okay
the beginning of this conversation
we all it's not funny dash
the beginning of this conversation
started off with
I'm building an NFT project
and that's kind of where my mind
has been the whole time
I don't know about you guys
evading taxes and whatnot
but outer outer
outer lumen
I do want to say it is this deep
I think we should have
still 10 million more projects
so they can fuck up your data
all the time I hope
but outside of that too though
okay so there was
there's something that was brought up
about founders being classified
as founder A and founder B
and like some of them
I believe it was just somebody
who wasn't on spaces or whatever
sorry it's not building capital
it was just being on spaces
being on Twitter
and not being social
yeah the two buckets was
okay bucket A
founders who are really
client facing
really charismatic
really open to talking publicly
the B bucket B
being the founder
who's behind the scenes
building not as active
client facing
so yeah those are the two
and so I just wanted it
to that point right
I think it's important
to have like a mix of both
because if you can't do both
obviously like
you're not
if you can't be charismatic
on spaces why would anybody
ever invest into you right
and I think like
just back onto the idea of like
you know why do we need
these likes and retweets
I know this is so crazy
and like what the fuck
is this guy talking about
if you were here from the
beginning of the space
I promise it makes sense
but it's just like look
it's all an ego driven thing
like all social media is
and I think to say like
it's like oh you know like
why do we care about
the likes and retweets
yeah I think it's important
actually you know
and I think that's what
drives a lot of us
to do the things we do right
so we can show off
and do these things right
and I'm not saying
that's the end all be all
but I think it is important
and it also creates like
this level of competition right
it's like if I see my competitor
or just like another person
on the space
getting hundreds of likes
and retweets
I'm like why the fuck am I
not getting 100 likes
and retweets
what the fuck am I doing wrong
and if I am the person
who's getting them
it's like hell yeah
I'm doing something right
and I have to continue
what I'm doing
because this is how
I'm getting my likes
and retweets
that's all I had to say
about that thank you
yeah it's a reinforcement loop
could I really
could I chime in on that
I'm sorry outer
I just I think
that was such a great example
and I wanted to like
kind of play
like devil's advocate
almost it's like
imagine if what
the person was putting out
and what the team was doing
was a tier
but they didn't understand
the algorithm
they didn't understand
you know you have to get
a bunch of likes
and retweets
when it first
sorry I got a call
um you got to get like
a bunch of likes
yeah from that side
you gotta you gotta get a
you know I'm dead
they're just kicking the door
okay over us
but essentially like
I've seen founders
and teams
that are have top tier products
but don't understand
like the d gen
and the pump
and the aspect of like
you got to have emojis
and spacing
and have people pump the tweets
and yada yada
so I do think it's like
you know a constant battle
and that's why you need
different areas of expertise
because you could have
really shitty products
as we've seen
time and time again
but have really good marketing
and sell hand over fist
and the good projects
with terrible marketing
so a couple of things
I wanted to mention
I'm just trying not to laugh
my ass off
I'm still crying
I know me yummy
like there's professionalism
about the window
but go on
let's all be
let's all be professional
I gotta throw that in there
there um okay
I mean I wasn't here earlier
but this whole notion
of like outward facing founders
or product facing founders
is interesting
just in how like
advertising was done before
if you think about it
you know back in like
the madman era
of like 30 second clips
on somebody's tv
it was product facing first
nobody cared about
the people as much
and then now like
a person is a brand right
so that's shifted a lot
which is why
you can't just throw NFTs at people
as much as you want to see
the people behind the people
because that paradigm has shifted
that's not what I wanted to say
I just wanted to
chime in with that real quick
what I wanted to say was
I was on a podcast last week
with Jenny on the blockchain
Keen and they asked me about a
kind of a question
that I think is so relevant
and it's something
that Rudolf was saying earlier
about how like
you know people try to copy other people
their projects try to like adopt
you know strategies
from other projects that have worked
and they're like
why isn't this working
and I said this on the podcast
and I'll say it again
if I fucking hear again
somebody being like
this is the next crypto punks
I swear to god
I'm gonna just throw my fucking phone
across the goddamn room
like stop fucking trying to make
the next thing that already exists
because the truth is that
the next fucking crypto punk
is gonna be the thing
that doesn't exist yet
and we're all gonna be blindsided by it
and it's gonna be like
whoa what is this
we don't even know
we can't define it
and that's gonna be the pinnacle
and guess what's gonna happen
after that
it'll be like
now a bunch of people
are gonna try to make the thing
that we didn't know was coming
and it doesn't work that way
so I just I don't know
I really don't like
have you have you seen that
what whale swoosh posted not
I think it was last week
but he posted how like
your quote unquote blue chips
are actually declining
in value price
everything like community action
like people aren't rocking
the p of peace
as much as they did
and it's funny
because you know
a year and a half ago
when we started declining
in the space
everyone wanted to be
like everyone's answer
to a quote unquote successful project
was let's create the next blue chip
and now we're actually starting
to see a slight maturity
where it's like okay
if we want to actually scale this
this space
we have to make things
relatable to webtube
also you know
tie into blockchain technology
that essentially is what NFT
like that's
that is an entity project right
and so like
that's what I'm actually starting
to see now
it's like
you can't really adopt the old ways
because the old ways
don't work anymore
everything
marketing you know
KOLs collapse
like everything is just
literally out the window
and it's changing
for the best I hope
and I think there's
an innovation level too right
like I think punks
will be punks
because they are fucking punks
but like you can't replicate
that moment in time
and that innovation
and like the way
and everyone slept on them anyways
because no one was ready
and I think that like
it might already be out
whatever that next thing is
and we don't know about it
because we're not even
paying attention
but like three years from now
suddenly will become relevant
because of some other
like contribution
that we can't even think of
and that's kind of like
my point is that
that kind of innovation
you can't replicate that
that's why
it's so like ridiculous
when it comes out
and hits you in the face
and you're like seriously
this is what happened
and you can't predict it
and you can't replicate it
I would agree
you agree that like
today's day and age
with like project wise
and products
you would agree
that you know
the days of
talk about the home runs
the one big milestone
the one big moment of time
which you said
that occurs
is kind of the be-all end-all
and that's going to be the catalyst
for 100 east floor
10,000 east floor
whatever it is
now it's about the small wins
compounding those wins
stacking those up
hitting the batting average
over 500 I hope
and that equates
to having a good floor price
having good products
having success
opposed to what was
we thought 12 months ago
was you know the home runs
would you agree to that?
I think it's I mean
I think everything is changing
because the underpinning
of all of this
is whether it's a bull market
or a bear market
like and and I think
that that's hard
and like I think people
can't zoom out or zoom in
if they haven't been
long enough to see it right
like even even in 2017
like I remember
when people had no idea
and it was such a huge hype
everyone's like oh my god
everyone buy every single coin
everybody left
and then new people came back
without kind of knowing
what was happening
but like during that time
like it was kind of like
this time right
and if you if you stuck around
and you dare to like
mint something
or you drop something
it was like wait
someone's doing something
this is crazy
like there's hardly
anybody around
so I think that
and and that's why
everyone's so hopeful
they're like oh my god
is there a bear coming
is there or is there a bull coming
is the bear over
is it over
and we're all like waiting
for that like pinnacle
of moment right
to come up
and be like well
even like the pudges now
you know like
I don't nobody thought
when apes were going
from like five
to then 10
to then like 20
and like people asked
to like well how
how did you hold that
because you just didn't like it was
it was kind of insane
you didn't know what was happening
at the time
when you did you know hold it
it was a perfect storm
out there it was like
the perfect storm
yeah and if you remember
like when Luca came in
the when Luca
initially had bought penguins budget
and he was on stages
I had no assets at the time
of the penguin ecosystem
and I was like
I like what he's saying
he's my age
because we're the same age
I'm like I like what he's saying
it makes sense
I'm from that world
people were flooding
the living hell out of them
24 months later
they can't say nothing
it's weird how it works
the Mr. Beast of NFTs
Luca is the Mr. Beast of NFTs
yeah we were all getting
man this is motherfucker
who proud of a fucking
I love it
he is gonna be the
in my opinion
Mr. Beast is gonna be
the first content creator
like billionaire
like first youtuber billionaire
I don't think anyone's
ever gonna top
motherfucking Jimmy
well and look at like
what he's taking on right
like you've got like
you know a brand
that is just like
can't even compete
with like how much influence
a person has
because it's personal
that goes right back
to that point of like
Mr. Beast is that like
30 second fucking
black and white ad
or whatever back then
like and it's wild
how that's shifted
and now companies approach
like that brand identity
is so strong
it's like can you
shill our shit for us
because if we try to shill it
that's not gonna work
yo I think it's also
really important to note
that I think you
a really good attribute
to have too
is you just gotta be
it's important to be
pretty likable
also like think of
think of any
any content creator
who does like a product
of any kind
most people are buying
their merch
or the snacks
or whatever it is
they're consuming
their products
because they're just a fan
of that person
so like I think
if you are a founder
I think being
being really likable
obviously not like
a yes man
to whether or not
people buy into
not just the mission
of the end
of the project
that you're trying to do
but also just you
as a founder
I think that's
just such an overlooked
quality to have
as a founder
that people just get along
and like you get along
with others
I was gonna
lastly comment there
oh sorry I muted myself
oh I just
I have a friend
who is kind of getting
into the content creation
here not here
with three
but more on YouTube
and like she's like
she's a nice girl
typical though
like I told her
I'm like don't be boring
she don't
she went boring
it was like
welcome to my vlog
bitch I'm gonna watch that
I'm sorry
like I love you
but like the fuck
honestly what the fuck
and it's just like
if you're gonna be like
if you're gonna push
all content
just be you
like you literally
just be you
and people
really just roll with that
like Theo Von
he's the weirdest shit ever
but he just says
I love his stuff
he's just like
the weirdest guy
but that's all
I had to say
he's like just
yeah I mean like
the whole content
topic there
I just feel like
a lot of people
want to copy pasta
all the time
not a sheep
what's up guys
first time
first time this week
outside of crypto Twitter
he is very new to me
and he said
he's like
yo I love it here
and I'm like
yeah it's it's crazy
it is indeed
I've been learning a lot about it
I kind of did know
a bit about it
I just didn't realize I did
so my daughter
actually sells a lot of drawings
paintings and whatnot
and she commissioned stuff
actually online right now
she's she just turned 13
so she's been doing that
and one of my friend's sons
does the exact same thing
they don't do entities
but they're trying to get
into that actually
but I wanted to talk about
the tax thing
it's only tax evasion
if you call it tax evasion
otherwise let's say
all of us sitting on here right now
you could use this as consulting time
so you could use this
to charge against yourself
as our spent
and then now it's a loss
so now it's a tax write off
so let's say
you make this much money
but at the same time
you also spent this much money
you got to set up like a
let's say a trust
or if you can
meet a lawyer in Delaware
and set up a trust in Delaware
transfer to your state
because it's better that way
for tax purposes and protection
and if you want to be sued
or not if you want to be sued
but in case you are sued
so there's ways to structure it
to where it's basically
you protect yourself
and that's something I think
you guys could all be doing that
since you're in the space doing this
you can basically use it
as your hours
like writing it against itself
pretty much
yo I thought Miyagi was
not a sheep is wild
I need to clip that actually
that's crazy
I like that
yeah well his
his name's not a sheep
for a reason
he knows what's going on
yeah well no
so Sal and Andrew
I think I know why
it's because I work for the government
so I don't like to
put my name out there
I don't like to link
anything to my real stuff
end of space
no I work for the department of defense
so I do public speaking communications
strategic communications
and I work for the board of directors
have you met Hillary Clinton?
no I would never meet her
I don't like her
sorry not as cheap as right
though like Raph if you
Raph's fee is like
spoken on shit like this
multiple times in spaces as well
like these are
they sound like tricks
or loopholes or whatever
but like they they're just
they're just financial instruments
that people can can have
at their their disposal
and regular regular
regular average people don't
you know it doesn't
it doesn't come across
their desk very often
it's just
a lot of research
a lot of reading into laws
but if anyone wants help
with it I'd be happy to help
that's where I can help that
actually because I had a lot of
friends that work for the government
I work for the government and
you figure this stuff out
yeah my mom works for the government too
on the social security side though
but okay thanks
I appreciate you not as cheap
honestly like seriously
if anyone has any questions
DM our boy or down here
appreciate it man
go ahead Chulo
I do actually want to end things
off with you man
because me and Andrew were like
yeah let's just run an hour
and a half space
as usual man
this has been three hours
so Chulo go for it brother
oh I was just gonna ask you
if you could uh
bring up not as cheap
as a co-host next time
that's that's all
that would that'd be a great space
thank you Chulo
no respect
you know what next time
you know next time
I actually will
not a sheep
I'm gonna DM you
and you'll
you'll just come up here
with me man
we'll have a good time
good to go sir
all right
so guys listen
Andrew is there anything
you want to
you want to say
before I pass things off
no it's been a
it's been a long space
yeah we always do underestimate
how long we're actually
gonna go on these things
turns out our stamina
you know keeps improving
which is which is nice I guess
I will say you know
we appreciate everybody
who tuned in
all the retweets
all the likes
if you give feedback
awesome if you listened
fantastic
if you're new to the industry
please just be cautious
I hate to say this
but do be weary
of most things that you see
just understand
if people are putting stuff
on the timeline
that means they probably
want you to see it
for whatever reason
so just assume
they own the asset
or if you are new to the space
just shoot me a DM man
because I honestly wish
that when I was new
that someone was nice enough
to be like yeah
shoot me a DM
and like I'll help you navigate
all this bullshit
security everything
if you're if you're seriously new
shoot me a DM
I will help you
if you have any questions
I'll see you in the right place
I'll get you set up
with some wallets
whatever it is that you need
I got you
this has been a good space guys
those who've been
listening in the entire time
I know who you are
you guys are just like
the homies of mine
that are showing support
so that seriously
means the world to me
we me and Andrew
do host these spaces
every Thursday
usually around 8
or 9 p.m. eastern
we are right now
just doing once a week
and it's mainly
because Andrew has just been
going absolutely ham
setting up a bunch
of different spaces for us
so Andrew
I know you have one coming up
on January 24th
did you want to touch
on that a little bit
yeah we can jump into that one
so on the 24th
we have the founder spaces
with all the different
I pinned that up top
it's after Sal
just kind of swiped
right on there
the opposite of you know
a Tinder I think
or whatever it's called
yeah just swipe right once
or maybe even the same way
I don't know
yeah so we're having that space
at five o'clock eastern
to seven o'clock eastern
basically the conversation
is currently about
our industry
the good bad
what's taking place
you know how can we prove it
what things do we like already
all that good stuff
me Ruto and Z
will be co-hosting
that and hosting that
most of us
will be asking
delegating questions
that the founders
on the spaces
will hopefully answer
to the best of their ability
and we are very
I you know we're very large advocates
for great questions
and we do we do believe
that great questions bring
along great answers
which inevitably
over a long period of time
a dimension of time
can actually increase
the value of the space
and make everything improved
hell yeah I'm seriously
looking forward to that one Andrew
it's going to be a fun one
she hosts the web3 deli
so why don't you drop every
once you tell everyone
when you have those spaces
yeah I have them on Tuesdays
at 1 p.m. EST
I'm going to post a space link
I've been kind of busy
so I am revamping
a lot of things though
so stay tuned to the menu
because that's actually
going to be kind of like
what I'm going to be marketing
next in the next couple of weeks
so if you're on the menu
you're on like
you'll be one of our speakers
which is kind of cool
but yeah I'm super pumped
about that
the next topic is
understanding web3 culture
I think that is a topic
I just really like to talk about
just because I've seen
a lot of culture be here
and yeah take some notes
meet some people
and yeah that's about it
I keep saying yeah
because I'm so fucking tired
I know it's time for bed for us
Andrew did you have something?
Yeah we also have a space with Peter
from Pudgy Penguins
on the 22nd
I believe that's the Monday
at 10 a.m. Eastern
that conversation is obviously one
that I look forward to very much
having a bias
obviously owning assets
but I do think that team
is ahead of the game
ahead of the curve
and I'm looking forward to picking
Peter's brain
to be honest with you guys
yeah and if you guys don't have
if there's not any links
that you clicked yet
just set notifications on
for for Andrew and Sal
and honestly
any of the speakers up here
I think everyone who's spoken
has added some really good value up here
and these are people
I respect as well
so if you want to just follow along
and see what they're up to
set the notice on
and also last and final thing
I am part of the TEA
the daily alpha family over there
hosted by chief and expresso
they have their spaces
every single Monday through Saturday
or no no sorry
Tuesday through Saturday
every single week 10 45
central time every single day
so if you're curious
you want to follow up
on what's you know
some new mints coming out
any alpha like that
they host those literally
pretty much every single day
so if you're interested in that
we are there every single day
cooking highly recommend
we don't do sponsorships
we don't do no fluff
no bullshit
hang out with the TDA
let them know miss me
but yeah guys
I appreciate you guys a ton
this has been a long space
it was kind of serious
most of it wasn't
but that's totally fine with me
we had a good ass time
hanging out with the friends
so without further ado
you guys could have been anywhere in the world
with you here with us tonight
and for that
we appreciate you
we love you
have a great night
we'll see you tomorrow
or next week