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Immutable: The Home of Web3 Gaming 🎮
Recorded: June 29, 2023 Duration: 3:24:55Space Recording
Full Transcription
So we'll start with a song here while we wait for people to flow in.
If you guys can all do us a huge favor and spread the love by retweeting, share this
in your groups.
If you're interested in Immutable and blockchain gaming and how this all ties in with the
Polygon ZKVM partnership and that technology, we'd really appreciate if everybody can help
us spread the word and get this educational content out to the masses.
Thanks, guys.
It might be crazy what I'm about to say.
We'll see you next time.
We'll see you next time.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
I'm a hot air balloon that could go to sleep
With the air, like I don't care, baby, by the way
Because I'm happy
Clap along if you feel like a room without a room
Because I'm happy
Clap along if you feel like happiness is the truth
Because I'm happy
Clap along if you know what happiness is to you
Because I'm happy
Clap along if you feel like that's what you want to do
Here come bad news talking this and that
Yeah
Well give me all you got and don't hold it back
Yeah
Well I should probably warn you I'll be just fine
Yeah
Knowing friends say you don't waste your time
Here's why
Because I'm happy
Clap along if you feel like a room without a room
Because I'm happy
Clap along if you feel like happiness is the truth
Because I'm happy
Clap along if you know what happiness is to you
Because I'm happy
Clap along if you feel like that's what you want to do
You'll be absolutely right
You'll be glad for me
Stay sure
I'll be happy
I'll be happy
income
Life
Also
dish
Distest
You're
Cristo
Clap along if you feel like happiness is over
Clap along if you know what happiness is to you
Clap along if you feel like that's what you want to do
Clap along if you feel like a roof out of the roof
Clap along if you feel like happiness is over
Clap along if you know what happiness is to you
Clap along if you feel like that's what you want to do
Bring me down, change up, bring me down
Love is too high, bring me down, change up
Bring me down, change up
Clap along if you feel like a roof out of the roof
Clap along if you feel like happiness is over
Clap along if you know what happiness is to you
Clap along if you feel like that's what you want to do
Clap along if you feel like a roof out of the roof
Clap along if you feel like happiness is over
Clap along if you know what happiness is to you
Clap along if you feel like that's what you want to do
Clap along if you feel like that's what you want to do
to speak with you robbie again today uh have immutable here we're really excited to dive into
immutable the ecosystem you know we have a ton of great games all of the progress you guys have made
um so super excited to talk to you i know we also have alluvium on stage and uh andrew
sorry we have michael powell uh jennifer paulson and uh i know there's more that are going to be
joining so we could probably go ahead and get this kick-started i know we have an agenda today
uh robbie i believe you're going to kind of like dive into who immutable is and kind of like what
you guys stand for in gaming so if you want to take it away um please feel free
yeah of course hey everyone good morning or good afternoon based on where you are
calling in from uh it's early morning here for us in australia and we've got a bunch of people from
the team uh and also a bunch of our partner games coming on to share some stories uh so i i've been
tasked with sharing just 10 minutes a bit about immutable our history what we're building and
what we're really standing for in gaming and i can also share some really exciting updates based on
some of the progress we've made with our polygon partnership and what we're seeing in terms of
early traction so just a quick recap for anyone who doesn't know why was immutable built and what
is our vision as a company and we started immutable way back in 2017 we've been building the blockchain
space since 2014 where we got into bitcoin but we became obsessed with ethereum in 2015
and after building trading bots for a few years the reason that we looked at gaming was this thing
called an nft came out with crypto punks and immediately i thought was well the first mainstream
application of web3 outside of payments is going to be not some speculative future use case around
you know a decentralized uber or some you know really future facing product it would be as simple
as taking this demand analog in the real world which is you know players spend 150 billion us dollars
on items every year counter-strike go alone in the last three years has done 40 billion dollars in
asset volume and players regularly get screwed over games change policies they change databases they
trade lock they change the power or status of these assets and it's no longer just a toy this is one of
the most important economies in the world it's bigger than music movies and tv combined and it's growing
at 10 percent year on year and uh the first thing we did was we built this proof of concept game
uh that was essentially the first ever multiplayer game on any blockchain and it went viral and we
realized two things first was game developers wanted this technology and there was demand but b it was
almost impossible to build a blockchain and so we started building the platform uh that that's around
today and fast forward four years and at the end of last year we had roughly you know 40 45 percent of
all web3 games in existence uh building on us and we had you know the most funding out of any other
blockchain but we had this really inefficient competition with polygon and more importantly
it was meaning that games were getting really confused about where they should build how they should
structure their economy and they have all these complex choices on top of what is a fundamentally hard
problem of building a good game and so you know we talked with sandeep and ryan and we essentially
established this partnership and i'm pretty thrilled to share i shared this in our community all hands a
few days ago but the last month this month june has been the most games have onboarded by value in the
company's history we're pretty stoked for that we're going to see this continuing to ramp up which has
hired 10 bds in the last month and across our code and market team and sorry did you say you hired
10 bd people did i hear that correct across both bd ps and and go-to-market ops so we're investing
pretty heavily in our go-to-market right now based on uh the sort of new pipeline we're seeing the
the pace of web2 adoption and the really exciting thing for me is we're actually seeing way more
credible web2 games right now looking to build on web3 i think if you look if you look at the market a
year ago you had a bunch of web3 enthusiasts the people who were most likely to build a successful
back then really pre-sale were web3 native developers who understood marketing to this
community and that's not at all where this adoption is going to come from you know we don't think web3
gaming is going to be a category it's going to be a layer in the stack of how gaming and economies
are built it's going to be ubiquitous in any game that has an economy that has multiplayer and to that
end the main thing we need right now how do we just help these people who are moving over from web2
to successfully build this economy to have good user acquisition and conversion to build mainstream
experiences where under the hood you can have actual empowered ownership of these economies
um and a couple of things i wanted to touch on is how have we actually seen this market unfold
over the last you know six to twelve months and one of the things i often get as a question is well
all right what about the u.s and what about the reaction to web3 gaming today from from some of
those uh players and the first thing i say is well it's partially in the u.s but if you actually look
at asia where the the total market outside of the u.s is much larger than the gaming market inside the
u.s that players and developers alike are going full steam on web3 gaming just to give you some some
insights we have the prime minister of japan declaring nfts a core area of national interest for the
country and we have ufg and mitsubishi group wow and and and sovereigns are pouring money into to web3
gaming infrastructure and and games in korea you literally have nexon one of the largest five gaming
publishers globally publishing their largest ip maple story on web3 uh and that's on polygon so we we think
there's huge opportunities in terms of what's coming through asia uh in the west i think the job is we just
have to make sure this is invisible as possible but also as empowering as possible and and that's why
you know adoption is not going to come from us talking to gamers and saying this is why this deck is better
for you just like we didn't tell them free-to-play was better than just like we didn't tell them mobile
gaming was a better solution it's about genuinely delivering value and the thing that always makes it easy
for me uh is we are on the right side of history if you look at even yesterday people have been tweeting at me
constantly um five billion goals of assets banned in counter-strike go because of players you know
what we're building towards is this set of economic primitives and ownership systems that allows people
to actually get value for the hundreds of billions of dollars they spend every single year gabe laden
the guy who made machine zone and spent more money on ads for gaming than anyone else in the world
has said this is a beautiful thing for his monetization model and he by the way monetizes entirely by
awareness all of his monetization comes from people spending more than a thousand us dollars in his
games up to millions and now it's like well these people are no longer chucking it into an abyss they
can become owners in these ecosystems they can have returns or value for what they're spending on
and he thinks that's a beautiful way to actually reward these people who this is incredibly important
to and and is a very important part of their life it's like on your point there philosophically i kind
of look at the ownership i kind of look at it like the way a credit union is a bank kind of by the
people for the people and the people you know you get better rates and uh things because it's yeah
you're getting the profits it's this is like if you made the same concept of a credit union but for gaming
precisely and and the the really important thing i wanted to touch on as well is
whatever we build here whatever catches on here this is the main consumer application that is going
to catch on and the standards we define for ownership here will become the prototypes for the
standards we use everywhere when people have lives that are entirely digital or entirely virtual in 20
or 30 years or mostly digital mostly virtual depending on your view you know they're going to socialize
they're going to work they're going to self-actualize they're going to play all in these digital
worlds and whether they own those assets on a monopoly that charges 30 or 50 percent and keeps
it on a database or uses an insecure solution or whether they use it on a genuinely decentralized
and open ecosystem like ethereum like zk roll-ups secured by ethereum is entirely up to how do we build
out this first prototype of the biggest consumer use case so that's why i think it's not just this
incredibly important category of gaming but it's actually how will people own digital
digital stuff and the reality is if you look at market timing right now the best businesses in
crypto have always been built in their markets i mean i think this is our uh this is personally my
fourth bear market this is a third bear market the company has gone through one of the things we tell
people who work at immutable is during the peak of the bull run when you know hype is incredibly high
you have brands coming in from everywhere is we say hey this this doesn't matter like the most
important thing is product and this will at some point change into a shift in narrative and a shift
in cycle the reason we build gaming is because we can build repeated utility that can grow over time
and likewise how long has we say how long has immutable been around you said three bear markets
so yeah so 2017 slash 2018 nice nice and the i i think that's incredibly important and but one of the
most exciting things is we actually get to see the data right so we get to see what games are doing what
we have a market map of every single game looking at building in web3 in the world and the reality is
the pace of people fundraising early stage in web3 games the pace of web2 game developers moving over
is as fast as ever otherwise we wouldn't have been able to achieve what we achieved this month
it's just a they're no longer doing it at crazy valuations uh which we think is great it builds
more discipline in the space and but b it's coming from people who don't feel the need to do a giant
pre-sale or proclaim that they're building in the space in order to demonstrate to public markets
that they have an edge it's companies genuinely looking to innovate and experiment so that they're
prepared for when this thing takes off or that they have their game ready to deploy um so look
the stat i often share is you know we think roughly 40 to 50 percent of funded games building on immutable
and and more broadly in the space are going to be going live over the next six to 18 months
85 percent of those will fail gaming is entirely hit driven but the five percent or the ten percent that
become mega hits they're going to have millions or tens of millions of players and really you only need
one to start to very significantly catalyze the ecosystem and also to provide this playbook of
here's how you build a successful web3 game with a growth loop that is a sustainable economy over time
and that's why we build immutable publishing and why we focus on actually solving for these economies
for game developers by building three in-house because unless we're doing it in-house we have no idea
what the actual innovation on web3 economies is or what apple's actual store with regards to
the iap policy is um so that's a bit about what we're doing and we're super stoked about this
this polygon partnership and we're ramping
time out come on we're ramping up our go to market massively all to this vision of we want to
accelerate the pace of games adopting web3 but more importantly we just want to increase their
chance of success if we can help the only thing a web2 game developer focus on should be the quality
of their game and we want to be able to solve hey a here's how you launch successfully to a web3
community b here's how you design a sustainable economy that can grow over time and c here's a
user experience for onboarding with things like immutable passport that will not kill your conversion
by 90 or 95 percent um so look we've got a bunch of other people coming on to speak uh we've got michael
pal from marketing uh jennifer paulson or japo who's leading some of immutables publishing she
headed up riot games publishing for asia andrew sorokowski our vp of bd um who's the one heading
up this this giant charge of business development right now and so i'll let them all come on and
speak but we're really really excited and uh excited to be able to share these stats early on with you
guys as well thank you robbie i appreciate you being here i see you know that you guys are
really standing strong um i guess it's it's easy to say that even though this chart is like it's just
only up you see all these new games onboarding this is probably just the start uh would you would you
say that's that's true even though it's it's just amazing what you guys have already done if you look
at the number of games that are live today out of games building in production it's less than five
percent so i i i think this is like the the thing we often say like where are the mainstream games and
it's like they're building like these games take time it's two to four years production cycles
we've had an enormous investment cycle right like let's be clear 15 billion us dollars which is an
insane amount of money that's been pumped into this category over the last two to two and a half years
but those games will it's not defy you can't have a team of five people build an exciting product that
has traction overnight that uses you know tokens as the user acquisition method it takes two to four
years sometimes longer to build high quality production games and so yeah so that that's
really interesting that i you know i hadn't actually thought about it like that that you know i've been
waiting for this kind of real zero to one moment for for blockchain gaming and i've been saying for
about probably three years publicly that i thought gaming was going to be really like the next vertical
that really propels us to mainstream hasn't quite happened yet uh it still seems very early but what you
just said there is so interesting that okay if if it's a two to four year you know cycle to build
these and most of the gaming hype really happened in just the last say two to three years uh for
gaming so that means there's a ton of projects possibly that are uh because 50 you know so many
billions of dollars came into this i i actually saw a statistic that blockchain gaming was getting
more investment than traditional gaming uh like over the last year or something crazy so that means
we have a bunch of plants planted that are going to start blossoming in the next year or whatever
precisely look we're we're pretty excited i think you know alluvium is a great example of timelines
right the reason i think that they're going to be one of the first triple a experiences in the market
is they started earlier than anyone and and you know that's coming out at the end of this year
so um i think they're a good kind of metonym for the the timelines of most games in the market
and but we're seeing really interesting early successes you know across the ages who i see in
the channel today hit number one strategy game in uh france and australia i think they're in the top 20 in
japan um great early retention metrics where seeing alluvium be able to demonstrate an incredible ability
to monetize you know nearly 100 million us dollars in revenue and this is post lunar um so i i think
the the thing that gabe would say is we've invented this incredibly compelling product offering for
the vast majority of monetization which is whale driven monetization uh particularly in demographics
like asia i think it can be much broader than that but certainly i think there's clearly demonstrable
product market fit there i agree it it's why i'm so bullish on you guys i i recently uh got the um
and i don't want to like open a can of worms so i know we'll talk about alluvium later but
uh i recently participated in the um alluvium decks or alluvidex
uh alluvials nfts and got the uh the disc with the partnership between uh gamestop and
and uh alluvium so i'm really excited about alluvium i know we'll be diving into that but uh
yeah it's it's massive it's massive what you guys are doing across the board um i i know we we also
have uh michael here that um we'll be talking about kind of like the like diving into the tech
immutable zkvm um immutable passport robbie is it a good time to go ahead and jump into that or
you let me know for sure yeah so i'll give the quick one minute primer um which is you know what
we have now is the the only reason we really would have not been able to onboard any game last year was
we didn't have smart contract compatibility but an app-specific roll-up and our goal was always to
expand from that we're now expanding with the ckvm uh with with polygon and the thing we're really
excited about and you've probably even seen with cross-roll-up liquidity is this idea of how do we
actually take immutables platform pair with the best scaling solution which is polygon and together
create this one-stop shop for gamers where you can build on any marketplace with any wallet on any
roll-up that we can offer different games because you know a world of warcraft or a maple story alone
might need their own custom zkvm with 10 000 transactions per second just to support their
players and the technology we are building is not only can they onboard easily but their liquidity
and volume can be shared across any of these venues we already have this live with our global order book
today where more than half of all of our trades are listed in one marketplace and bought on another
say sold in game and bought somewhere else and this is kind of our vision to solve this liquidity
fragmentation piece which is the you know the main thing that has been a problem for ethereum and
scaling solutions over the last three years yeah someday it would be beautiful if you know
similar to like using one inch on ethereum or on on polygon uh you could use that and uh it'll just
pull liquidity across all chains and it will be that simple of an experience and i think that we're
going to have stuff like that with roll-ups because roll-ups provide this new level of interoperability
possibilities uh because they roll up to especially if they all roll up to ethereum uh that there's some
really powerful interoperability that could happen between different roll-ups and that's kind of
the kind of concept of polygon 2.0 which we'll get into later
hey robbie before you go i know i know you're you uh you may have to go right now but i just had to
ask i saw recently you posted about um old school runescape the lo-fi beats i was a huge runescaper back
in the day played a lot of uh old school runescape did did you as well i mean you don't have to dive
too far into that i was just wondering yes i was a big this is i guess one of the other uh backstories
which is i was a big runescape player in high school and i played often with my brother and one day i went
on my brother's account he was much better than me and my brother is my co-founder for those who don't
know uh and i went into the wilderness and i lost all of his stuff i think basically like a full full
dragon um i sculled and and died and i felt so bad that i spent all of my savings on uh gold in game
gold to buy his stuff back so he wouldn't be mad at me um and that worked for two days until the
account got banned for in-game trading and then six months later jagex literally rolls out the ability
to buy game uh buy gold in game but only through their services and offerings i i just think it's
it's it's pretty clear that you know this stuff is really meaningful like that's a trivial example but
these economies are no longer trivial toys they are one of the most meaningful by dollar size by time
spent by the meaning it has to play as it uses by the category expansion categories in the world and
we just don't think it's good enough to be able to shift with impunity whatever centralized economy
you want we think this stuff should be ownable this stuff should be guaranteed this stuff should
be owned by everyone or rather than owned by one giant monopoly or one company and the what we
develop here will stand as the standards for everything um so yes i very much a fan of runescape but
uh uh yeah and like we see with many industries where people think and the thinking right now of of like
traditional game developers and and studios is that if they start giving the ownership of this stuff
to people well then people might not buy as much from them because it's not it's not non-transferable
anymore now it can be transferred but it's wrong because you make an you make you open up a whole new
economy it's like going from taxis to uber you know like uber is a big a bigger and these lyft and
these are bigger companies than like all of the traditional combined taxes because it expanded the
market so this new way of owning items should expand the gaming market because it makes a better
experience and now like a credit union for gaming the people get to own their stuff the people get
to benefit from this so it creates this whole second you know uh market economy around it and then also
like the game developers can do things like just launch more items or collections or take royalties
there's so much they can do with it i i've been saying for a long time i really believe this is
going to be a massive transformation to the gaming uh entire ecosystem over the world like you'll see
career gamers now i mean this is like a dream of mine i don't game much anymore but i i also got banned
for selling and buying uh platinum and everquest uh actually to uh brock pierce who made eos and then
jonathan yantis who made wax the gaming chain uh we i was working with them 23 years ago so i i feel
you on that one but uh yeah i think you'll have career gamers now more than you have now it's
already started to open up to that with like streamers and some pro gamers and sponsorships
but now you can have like lower tiers of like you're just a hardcore gamer and you make enough
to pay your rent and you know make a career out of this because you are just really good at a game
and you're able to you know sustain by farming enough gold or whatever items um so yeah i think
this could be just really incredible for the world we saw it kind of with second life we saw it with wow
with gold uh and this is like now we're going to make it purpose-built for for these in-game economies
to to lubricate that that entire uh the economy of it all yeah
yeah so love what you're doing robbie i i like a huge fan of you and immutable i'm excited to see
you know where you guys take this um i'm not sure if you guys want to dive into the tech
or um a loop the alluvium um you guys had your hand up i'm not sure if you wanted to comment on
something really quickly or because uh i know that we we kind of have like an agenda and we wanted to um
jump into the tech soon but i'm not sure if you wanted to comment on something
they were just raising their hand so you guys would accept my speaker invite all good i'll speak
to alluvium later on in the agenda please continue awesome awesome yeah we're so excited to uh hear
more about alluvium and everything you guys are doing like i'm i'm i know i'm super hyped about it
uh so um cool by the way guys retweet the space we're uh we've got a big audience today
uh 380 live listeners uh so yeah please retweet let people know tag your favorite gamers message
your favorite gamers your friends uh and let them learn about blockchain gaming this is like a
kind of a master class really with some of the best minds in blockchain gaming here today
100 percent michael did you want to dive into the the tech and and all of that
absolutely how's everyone doing good good it's a beautiful day good good perfect well um robbie's
always a tough act to follow but um i think he set the stage very well there and um i actually just
wanted to before we dive into the tech add one piece on the economy side that you brought up because
i do think proving the financial roi to these game studios is going to be a critical point to
mainstream adoption and we've been doing some analysis on our side it's still early uh but
what we've seen is actually uh increase in average revenue per user and engagement when it comes to
web web3 gaming and we've taken average revenue per user of gods of unchained and we've looked at the
top five percent of games uh in the mobile space and that's actually hovers around 66 dollars per user
um and gu averages about double that um we also see about 24 percent longer play sessions per day
which equates to about 8.5 minutes per day um so there really is the economic value there as well
i think you said it well it's about creating an economy and this trading market um where you know
there's royalty fees and things that we see where um engagement people actually have skin in the game
and that level of ownership leads to greater fandom more excitement and actually playing the game more per day
so um i think that's really exciting just wanted to share that quick nugget uh before we dive into the tech
but well just just imagine if you back to that note is like imagine if you were a gamer and many of us are
like how many we've all bought skins and things like that how wouldn't would tell me would you not if you knew
you owned that skin and that it could and that you can sell it later if you got tired of it or that it
could even go up in value because of rarity like a pokemon card or like a any kind of collectible
baseball cards etc imagine like would you not spend more money i would probably spend 10 times as much
as if i could resell the items later
exactly exactly yep i completely agree with that it brings a whole new dynamic to it
cool okay so um let's dive into the tech i know we uh we want to cover immutable zk evm and immutable
passport today but i want to set the stage for this conversation just by talking about our product
suite and our platform right so what we really pride ourselves at immutable and
robbie said this well is really being the one-stop shop web3 game development platform
right where in a lot of other players in the space and in the industry you'll see many of them where
you kind of have to frankenstein or hodgepodge pieces together right you have to have your own
wallet provider you have to have a fiat on-ramp you have to build the back end of a marketplace
and all of these solutions together not only do you have to integrate them but you have to
maintain them and then you have to develop relationships with third-party entities and it
becomes a very cumbersome process and the tech burden is very large so i'm a big fan of analogies i think
it helps to explain complex uh systems in an easier way um so the analogy i'll use um will it's kind of
like a lot of um other options in the space for game devs are trying to build a house with popsicle sticks
right and popsicle sticks are meant for one purpose and they do that job well but when it comes to actually
piecing them together you have to hold them together with glue and tape and they don't interact with each other
very well um and what we like to picture immutable as is more of like a lego set right these different
building blocks that provide optionality fit together well um and really being that holistic
one-stop shop partner for games as they go through the development process and a lot of that in the lego
analogy is really about optionality right um and we provide these things that work well together and you
can piece them together as you see fit based on your objectives and your game and it really helps
to de-risk the move to web3 right we're creating this ecosystem that's not just about being one part
of a broader infrastructure or one part of a broader you know system that's in place the uh the entire
full vertically integrated tech stack is all done by immutable and diving into immutable zk evm right
just a quick brief overview of the history we um historically immutable has relied on a stark x
instance um for really as robbie put it the app specific zk roll-up um essentially that's our
scaling solution right where we batch transactions um off ethereum l1 in our layer two and then prove
them on ethereum layer one so that um actually really increases the throughput and allows us to scale
and that has led to some awesome things um again not only the throughput and the scale side but also
has led to gas-free transactions which games have enjoyed um but to be fairly transparent with all of
you it was a fairly closed environment right and where stark x relies on the cairo programming let
language um obviously ethereum is solidity coding and based in smart contracts so this partnership with
polygon that we announced a couple months ago uh really was the genesis of creating immutable zk evm
and the immutable zk evm chain is really the first of its kind it's it's a dedicated chain specifically
for games that offers evm compatibility low cost massive scale as well as enterprise grade security
so it's combining the benefits of zk roll-up technology with the power of the ethereum ecosystem
and then on top of that we're also able to offer the entire suite of immutable gaming products directly
within that development environment with massive throughput so like zkbm uh theoretically like in the near future
could get up to a hundred thousand transactions a second and not and that's not the limit as it optimizes
it gets better it could get even higher than that and then also because like you said instead of having
application specific roll-ups uh and also not evm so there's like some friction there but now you have
it to where you know if you're playing a game you could have in your game you could have a widget that
allows you to trade with people items in another game or you could have uh within your game an interest
like a an item lending kind of money market where you can put your item up uh as uh collateral or
lend it you could borrow against your items if you're not using them at the time or let's say you
got a set of some resist gear for a raid you could rent that out to someone with a smart contract and
then that can come back to you automatically after the raid's over uh for a small fee so there's there's
all these crazy things you could do with the interoperability it's and now instead of it being defy
you know financial lego blocks this is gaming lego blocks
exactly right exactly right yes in in contrast to many of the general purpose change right which
are really designed to support a broad set of applications and smart contract functionality
immutable zkvm as you said is really built for games and what we've seen in other industries and
other markets uh high friction and transaction costs actually benefits the operators um and that's not
acceptable in the gaming space right games need to optimize for scale speed and native user experiences
really they need an ecosystem where they can thrive so that's why we are going beyond the developer
tooling and we're really thinking about the ecosystem through massive liquidity player community
and the network effects that come along with it um so yeah that's i just want to dive into a little bit
around why zk evm makes it easier to build great games right that's the essence of of what we are doing here
um and there's a few reasons right where um i think going back to the network effects point
right so it's really about allowing game developers and game studios to have access to the combined network of
immutable and polygon to make acquiring gamers building with tools and actually even fundraising easier
than it's ever been so right we go back to that holistic point and we are taking care of that
builder's journey end to end um and we really view it as the most cutting-edge technology in the gaming
space with the largest ecosystem in web3 and then of course every game studio will tell you that
development costs is top of mind so with immutable zk evm right we're now in a world where you can
actually easily migrate existing smart contracts to the immutable zk evm environment and we have a
whole swath of smart contract templates in place so game developers don't have to start from scratch
or if they already have assets on another chain they're able to migrate them over and you can spend
more of your developer resources actually focused on building a great game and leave the web3
integration components to us there's also an element of enhanced gameplay mechanics right so
um the actual player experience in the game of course of paramount importance and this advanced
functionality really goes around providing just optimal player experiences so when we think about
some of the things in the d5 space or some of the things that um really can come to life through
web3 gaming around staking crafting upgrading um you know you can actually like equip nfts to other nfts
and then list them for sale across a whole network of marketplaces so players from other games can see
them and access them so yes your point really around interoperability and ecosystem again i will keep
coming back to that point but it's all possible with immutable zk evm now um yeah there could be an
nft marketplace that makes a like a widget uh like that's easily like you could be a small indie game
and you could just take their little api or widget or endpoints whatever i'm not a dev and just pop it
into your game and now any items in your game have access to a worldwide nft marketplace like open
see your magic eden etc i mean that's like just think about that for a second how incredible that
is imagine if you were playing league of legends or uh fortnite or whatever roblox and you can at the
top of the screen drop down a menu that you could list any of your items for sale or for rent or as
collateral in a loan to buy a house or whatever you know i i took my uh my uh ethan and uh on dow on
on maker dow i put it as collateral to buy my first tesla uh like four or five years ago uh i think four
years ago and so like you can do this in a game if you're a hardcore gamer with some badass assets
because you're at the top of your game uh you could put those up for as collateral as a down payment
on a house or a car or something and then you don't have to sell them right exactly exactly yes and
that's what the immutable order book is really aiming to achieve um with the marketplace net network
that we have built um and you know what we've seen ebay and amazon do in the e-commerce space right
about eliminating this idea of fragmentation and providing liquidity to sellers and to creators
um you know i think a lot of that is applicable here um awesome the last thing i want to touch on
um for just really around how we're making it easier is i think it's it would be remiss to um
not mention this security element right so um well actually when we do deploy the immutable zke vm
mainnet we will implement allow listing um as a quality control measure to protect studios and users from
malicious activity poorly designed contracts um and actually conserve the chain's bandwidth for gaming
specific activity so um this is something where where we want to commit to both studios and to
players as well that there's not going to be rug pulls or um you know any fraud um we we really want
to avoid activity like that and make sure that it's a space where both gamers and studios can thrive
uh that's awesome thank you yeah yeah it is um cool okay so the last thing on immutable zkvm before we
jump into immutable passport um right i do want to make could i go back on that and ask about that so
how does that work exactly so that you're is there like a a white listing process or something i mean
will people if some indie game wanted to come over for example are they going to have to
get permission from you guys to do that or how exactly does that work um no so it will not be
that closed off of an environment we will have a essentially a smart contract criteria that has to
be met in order to deploy smart contracts on the immutable zke vm mainnet so it will not be as manual
as you know us or anyone internally doing any sort of review process but we will have a set of criteria
that needs to be met in order to um again be active on the on on the chain
so you will you guys like do some kind of automated kind of type of audit like i mean you see some so
there's some um uh protocols who are doing this for like metamask or for as browser uh extensions where
it checks uh interactions to make sure there's no glaring problems and is that the kind of thing
you're talking about exactly right yeah got it
perfect yep so um i think in summary uh for immutable zke vm right it's really about the
immutable platform is now offering a zke vm roll up um you know i think zke vm technology cannot be
considered intellectual property by any one entity um and really the power of zke vm comes to life
when you combine it with our platform suite and i also want to make it clear that um immutable will
continue to support immutable x um our stark x instance as we move forward in parallel with
immutable zke vm so all of immutables products will be available across multiple roll ups and it goes
back to that point really around giving game studios optionality to really de-risk um you know
committing to one chain or to one partner in the space um and making sure that we have solutions
that meet the needs across a wide spectrum of game studios so i don't know i know we have an agenda here
and uh and a bunch of stuff still to talk about i don't know if we have time or if this is a good
time to go into it or if we want to wait till later but um how so we noticed uh from a recent post by
you guys that since you guys did this partnership with polygon zk vm that your guys's uh sales have
like i don't know grown by like multiples so i'm curious while you're still going to be uh supporting
your your previous stack is it like how does this look how you know make a sort of fly on the wall
here in these conversations you're having with these gaming studios are they you know i maybe you
guys want to be somewhat neutral so you you know you're not mean to your you know anyone or nice to
anyone uh but how does that look are these people very interested in the zk vm as a as a polygon guy
myself uh i'm curious because your sales clearly shot up massively after this partnership
yeah so i i think um sorrow will probably touch on that a little bit as well but um our stance is
we really want to let the market choose right so um of course when evm compatibility comes up and
games are already using smart contracts or they have solidity engineers right obviously
immutable zk vm becomes very appealing um for more streamlined games that um you know are don't
necessarily require the advanced gameplay and um are really looking more for gas-free transactions
when it comes to minting assets trading assets immutable x still may be more appealing so um you
know it it has been obviously extremely exciting and um has been awesome for our bd team and our
sales um but i think there's an element of let's let the market choose and you know i think we are
kind of in a sit back and learn mode um because both are you know have their own appeal and um we've
heard kind of both ends of that which totally makes sense and it's it's good to have options especially
like you're you're highlighting the development team you know it might just make more sense to go a
turn route um for them specifically to get in yeah specifically the the zk evm route i'm just kidding
but i yeah options are always good and um yeah yeah i know you also wanted to uh touch on
the um immutable passport and i think this kind of like uh it kind of pulls everything all together
i'm not sure if you're ready for for that part i am yes perfect yeah and um i'm imagining the
oscar music is playing somewhere so i will try to whip through this pretty quickly here but
um i want to just highlight you know kind of why we are investing so much in the immutable passport
product um and just outline the problems first right where mainstream gamers find it hard to
onboard into web3 wallets um you know it's a confusing and pretty high friction process
um there's also a lack of trust um really to wallets themselves and to web3 and just a lack of
education around how to navigate that space and then it's also hard to be transaction ready when gamers
need it right so it can be pretty clunky when you're trying to add funds or you have funds somewhere
else and it's really hard to move them over so a lot of that siloed fragmentation nature in the
space um has also led us here um and then there's also really a lack of gaming focus when it comes to
the existing wallet solutions on the market and oftentimes these wallets um you know can be created
without users even knowing that they exist um so their implements you know there's that friction that
comes to life when you have to maintain multiple wallets and funds across various places
so that's what led to the creation of immutable passport which really is the instant non-custodial
wallet um so it it at its core it allows game studios and game devs to protect and grow their
communities right it's about easy onboarding um so when it comes to easy onboarding we you know
have this passwordless login process um where you can log in with your email you can log in with
apple you can log in with google and it makes it a very familiar web2-esque process where i think
you're able to create an account in about 12 to 15 seconds um which obviously makes it very easy
um and then of course security is of extreme importance as well right so users private keys are
stored on their device and the other component of that is actually on aws hardware as well um through
our partner magic link um who we are we're working with on the non-custodial wallet portion of this
and then there's the really making the in-game purchases and transactions extremely seamless
so making it all one click users will be able to actually set their spending limits of when they need
to sign and we can implement invisible signing there to make transactions native to the game
right so you don't have to go to another application or click through you know six pop-ups
in order to actually transact but making that feel like it's a very native experience
and then from a developer standpoint we really want to make it very plug and play right so we've
talked a lot about ecosystem and streamlining the development process so you know instead of having
to think about oh a wallet provider and a fiat on-ramp and a relayer to abstract away some of the gas
costs this is all built into the immutable passport product so right through the passport sdk you're
able to access all of this fun excuse me functionality um and you're actually able to kind of build this
lego-esque piece into place around okay what elements of this do you want and how do you want to
integrate this within your game um and on the gamer side i think what landed really well from a value
proposition standpoint is this idea of the all access pass right instead of having to maintain
multiple wallets across various marketplaces and games you can actually have just the immutable
passport which is going to get you access just in a couple of clicks to every immutable powered game
and this also adds a layer of game discoverability which has been a huge problem in the web 3 space
but being able to actually cross-pollinate user bases across games is going to make a whole new
element of user acquisition come to life for these game studios so that's been another very appealing
point as well um and then of course you know the last piece on security and compliance which i think
has been um obviously a hot topic um but passport really has a unique security feature set um which
stops games or marketplaces or any potential fraudulent actors from compromising user assets
users are in complete control um there's both game and mobile api keys we have um off zero based
succession keys where there's no client secrets at all we're working on a guardian feature which will
actually um protect and using ai to identify potential fraudulent transactions or irregular transactions
to flag it to users as well and and then implementing smart contract wallets of course so um we have some
really exciting updates coming on both the passport and the zkevm front um in the coming weeks so stay
tuned for that um both on the product side and on the partnership side um so it's going to be a busy
next couple of months for us with a lot of exciting things going on and um with that cliffhanger i will
leave it there okay thank you so much michael i mean this has truly been a deep dive you know into the
tech and you know the options that you guys are providing for the developer community and the gaming
community um you really tied it together with kind of explaining passport and um yeah thank you thank you
so much i i know we have like this agenda and we've we've just we're a little off and we're a
little short time so i i have questions but i'm going to save them for another time uh you know
hopefully we can uh talk again and dive into the tech more i love the you know the tech and everything
you guys are doing but i know we have jennifer here and she's going to be talking about you know
designing for sustainability long-term games and all that so i'm not sure if it's a good time to pass it
over sure all right thank you yeah i will i will try to make up some time here i know we're um tight
on the agenda and then i'll pass it to sorrow um but wanted to give an overview of the work that
we're doing on the immutable game partnership side of the business and how we're enabling game
developers to really go to market um in web3 designing uh for the future and making sure that
their games are sustainable um and give you a little overview about the three first games that
we're working on um but to start i'd like to just explain kind of why i got into web3 which is that i
started in the uh game industry i've been in gaming for um about 18 years and as robbie mentioned i was
previously at riot and i firmly believe that in games you know the industry always moves towards
what's what's best for the player so the resistance that we you worked for riot did you play league at
all yeah i play league i'm not good at league i'm better at tft but i do what uh what rank and position
oh my god no i'm terrible i i try to i try to carry and i'll i'll i'll stick around where people tell me
to go um and try not to die that's what was my strategy what was your favorite champion give us
one champion um let's see i like um a tanky champ like sejuani okay okay yeah yeah that's a good one
when i did play i was i was top uh trendamere one trick for many years oh yeah in my in my college days
are still like like the founder yeah trendamere um mark merrill's main so yeah that's awesome
barbarian maybe i think that's like how i like to see myself in real life
exactly yeah i mean gaming's a fantasy right yeah exactly
um so yeah you know and at riot also right like there was a huge resistance towards moving to mobile
like riot really missed the boat on taking league to mobile um almost 10 years ago it took them
forever to launch uh league of legends wild rift which i worked on um and during that time tencent
launched you know essentially the same the same game which is honor of kings or arena of valor which
is one of the the largest player bases in the world and so um i think that often core gamers there is a
resistance to the the new tech whether that's free to play or mobile um and a lot of hate that comes
at that and i see exactly the same pattern with web 3 but ultimately once people understand the
technology and the convenience and the benefits the industry does move in that direction because
why wouldn't you go to free to play when you can jump into a game without having to pay 69.99 for
a package and you know monetize if you want to and why wouldn't you play ultimately you end up spending
hundreds of dollars exactly it's a good uh it's good you give them a little you give them a little
sample free and then hope they get hooked i guess right exactly yeah um and the same with mobile right
there was so much resistance to mobile being real gaming but it's what is most convenient like if you're
um if you're working and you've had a long day it's really like a pain in the ass to turn on your
console and go through all of that you can just get a quick game on your your phone right and so
the the industry has grown many many times over with each of those advancements and i think that the
same is true for web 3 in terms of the benefits that it really offers players and so if that's the
you know consistently we have seen throughout the industry over decades and decades the direction
that growth happens then you know i truly believe that web 3 is that that next frontier because it
offers really the ultimate um benefit for players in terms of you know what we've already discussed on
this um this call which is the ownership element and being able to have control of your own assets
and i also think that you know the initial kind of run into um speculative assets and trying to
make money off of assets you know that's not always the reason people game and that's not necessarily
going to be the ultimate goal of a lot of web 3 games you know some assets of course you know like you
mentioned with some pokemon cards they will go up an asset in in um value because they're rare and people
want them but a lot of them you know they won't but that's like okay for me as a gamer and even if
they do some people will just hold on to them and never sell them anyways like me exactly yeah totally
but it's nice to know it's there you know it's nice to have the option yeah yeah i still have a bunch
of my old like poke uh pogs and marbles and all the weird old stuff i got my old my original nintendo
my n64 all that yeah yeah and i have like a ton of you know box games just to have them around
even you know just because they're mine right but like it and it also i think doesn't matter that they
don't go up in value like if i buy uh an in-game asset for ten dollars and you know after a while i
don't want that skin anymore and i sell it for six dollars it's okay that i lost four dollars at least
that's six dollars i have to like put back into something i want that costs fifteen dollars you
know it it supplements your your gaming pattern and i think that kind of um that value will really
start to show as these high quality games start coming out and so think about like houses or cars
like think about what would the market for homes and cars be like if you they were non-transferable
but then once you make them transferable it just changed the entire dynamic and we're sitting here
playing with playing games with a bunch of property that we don't really own i mean it's kind of a joke
when you really think about it um but there was no way to do it properly before until now and the games
just had kind of monopolies you know and they liked the fact that they could make money but we're we're
pushing the envelope and and i i think it's going to work well and then they'll just have to adapt and i
actually think it'll expand the market and they'll make more money anyways oh 100 agree yes and that
definitely you know that's that's our premise and then in terms of how we're working with games to do
that um so what we're doing on the immutable games partnership side is to make sure that game
developers can just focus on making really fun awesome games you know that's their core job i want
them to create stuff that people really want to experience and for them to not have to be
in tokenomics and web 3 economy and um integration engineering these things that aren't core to the
gameplay um experience that they're building to take that off of their play and have our our team handle
that so um we're part of the immutable game studio which uh has you know gone sudden chained and guild of
guardians which is coming out in a bit also and so we take the learnings and expertise that we have
in-house from developing our own games and also like frankly dogfooding our own technology right like
we experience how to implement whether it's the starkx instance or zkevm firsthand and we're able to
apply that to the partners that we work with um and you know use that experience that we've had to
develop the game economies uh as well as the tokenomics do the game design that then has to be
adjusted based on the economy because frankly like if you take a web 2 game and then you build a web 3
economy into it there are a variety of gameplay loops that just don't work anymore and you have to do a
bit of redesign so our team handles that as well um and then we also provide the game integration
engineers to do the things like you know making sure that your um everything is working for your
primary sale on immutable zkevm to make sure that passport gets integrated etc and then um we also
have a marketing and community team that really focuses on the web 3 community building aspect which
um is sometimes like a slightly different beast than the traditional um game marketing that most
companies know how to do so um that's kind of how we're enabling some of the very high uh conviction
high quality games to succeed and one of them one of them is on here today i think you'll get to hear
if i'm in later um bo from bazooka tango which is building a game called shardbound uh is on the
upcoming panel but shardbound is one of the first three games that we are partnering with um i'll let bo
tell you about it but it's such a beautiful beautiful um game that is a turn-based tactics game that i think is
really easy to jump into because it's like on a hex board but it has really deep strategies so it takes
a lot to to master it and um i worked on and launched is that like is that like tft or something
yeah kind of but it's like you know a hexagonal board if you ever played final fantasy tactics which
is a game i launched many many years ago you launched like yeah um don't lie to me here don't
mess with me yeah i handled um public relations wait how old are you like what is that 30 years
older oh oh this oh no no this this was the final fan there was another final fantasy tactics that
launched around like 2008 maybe it's on mobile right no oh no no it was like an intent and maybe
it was playstation um psp i think at the time i think it was like a handheld device like so maybe
it was uh a remake yeah but there was an upgrade it was um a redesign that was relaunched i feel like
that i was like in like fifth grade or something i could be wrong i don't remember and re-release and
relaunch of that game on multiple platforms because the graphics but the systems are perfection
yeah but i i do know what you're talking about with the uh the hexagonal kind of shapes i i was
looking at uh shard bound it's it looks so beautiful the way they've kind of designed the
battlefield and the characters so i'm definitely excited for that and and um it looks really
interesting i guess we'll be hearing from them shortly yeah um and so yeah that that that's one of
the the first games that we're working on and you know like i said like it's a really what do you
mean because you said that a few times now like you said the first three games but you guys have
been working with a ton of games for a while now so are you talking about with zkvm or what do you
mean oh um so uh side note that these three games are indeed going to be on immutable zkvm however um
what i'm referring to is kind of my um a new kind of business model business unit that i run within
the immutable game side so you know as you know there are hundreds of games that are building
on immutable um and all of them are supported by our partner success teams to make sure that they
um have the best practices and support they need to be able to launch successfully but in addition to
that and separate from that um i am working specifically with just three games that um we
have a really strong belief in and are partnering deeply with essentially as kind of like a web 3
publisher and providing not only the strategic advisory for those things i mentioned like economy
and game design and community but also the actual of those elements
got it um so yeah sorry i feel like you can you can still hear me right yes yes okay yeah um so
yeah so the um the other two games for that are uh a game called metalcore which is studio 369 it is a
um a massive uh battlefield that is like a mech based battle so you have really large mechs but um
also you know you don't always have to be in a mech there's lots of different ways to play based on your
your desired gameplay style which includes um infantry as well as you know fighter jets and different kind
of vehicles um there's a really expansive sci-fi lore that goes with that um and that one is yeah
going into closed beta in you know pretty shortly and will be available by the end of the year same
thing for shardbound as well um and then the third one is a game called infinite victory from bitfry game
studios and that is a um a multi-sports ip like fast-paced futuristic um sports game that's like
initially basketball based but has um lots of different ultimate moves based on hockey and soccer
and kind of like blends all these sports together in this like it's kind of like um nba jam meets um
meets tron is the best way to explain it so um so yeah very very excited about these three games and
it really came from us reviewing hundreds and hundreds of games um i i literally looked at and
play tested hundreds of games over the past year um and these three are the really the ones that we
wanted to partner very deeply with and work with so um very excited to get these out to market
and players will be able to get them in their hands within this year um and i think you know as
was mentioned in robbie's section um about how you know games take years to develop i've worked on games
that are you know took more than five years to get to market and so um it's taken a while to see some
of these really great games come to players hands but the end of this year early next year i think is when
you'll start to really get to see those um high quality games and we'll see a huge growth that
starts to happen in the in the web3 gaming space yeah super excited i think you really kind of
showcase that immutable is here for the long run and the games that you guys are you know working with
are truly like yes there's all the web3 stuff there's the the assets and having ownership but
there are also games that are just going to be really fun to play and that's why i'm so bullish
on you guys and love everything you're doing i'm a massive fan and i'm definitely going to uh get
involved with um passport and and everything so i appreciate you really like breaking this all down
and helping us see the vision um and i know you know there's i keep referring back to the agenda
uh thanks for your patience and everything but um you know i know we also have andrew here that's
going to be talking about the game ecosystem the game's building on immutable as well so you let me
know when you're ready to uh yeah let's let's do that i'll pass it to andrew who goes by sorrow it's
so weird to call him andrew um and uh yeah he can tell you more about those hundreds of games that
are are building on immutable nice thanks so much for your time awesome hey guys it's andrew uh sorrow
also but happy to go with either tough acts to follow y'all you got robbie obviously kicking things
off robbie always brings the energy and the hype um obviously michael big shout out on the tech deep
dive side of things um great to hear from jpo talking on the you know more on the portfolio
game side where we partner very deeply with games get very involved and do a bit more of a publishing
deal and then on my side um so i've been at the mutable i guess for the past it's been actually just
had my two year which is crazy to think that it's been two years um and really my team is focused on
how do we go like obviously we have the products we have the platform and the ecosystem
how do we go out and really partner with the best quality games that are out there and really make
this happen at scale so you know we started small um two years ago i think when i joined it was
basically just robbie and myself um doing deals um quite a different time that was during the peak
of the i think the previous bull run which was a bit of a wild time to be in the space you had
everything coming in every project whether it was a game whether it was a brand everything looked like
it was going to be big and so prioritization was the name of the game it was super super hard to
kind of figure out like where are the where do we place our bets but i think we learned over time
right and so maybe what i'll share a little bit about and guys just a quick call it i want to be
respectful of time i think we're running a little late i actually have to jet in about 10 to 15 because
we have a company event so i'll keep it short and then no worries and stuff yeah no worries from our end
we're totally good but i know you know this there is an agenda here so um yeah no i just want to let
you know from our head we're good but uh yeah cool yeah i just i just wanted to be i mean i know
there's partners and stuff and they've been listening to immutable go on for for for 75 minutes so
yeah i mean really the fact of the matter is all the best games are building on the ecosystem
right and we've grown this exponentially and you saw you saw robbie share over the past little bit
um uh i think he tweeted it and shared in our community town hall and mentioned it earlier
today we just had an absolutely record we're closing up a record quarter and that's on top
of a previously uh the previous quarter which was a record in terms of partnerships that we struck
as well like we basically had three consecutive quarters so huge shout out to the team i know some
of the team are in here you got tyrus you got nigel you got ezra um give them some some love
um but really like it comes down to we a couple a couple months ago or i guess like six to twelve
months ago we just really made a a conscious decision to just build this thing out for scale
laid some solid foundations and built some internal muscle to to to really ramp our team we're sitting
at about 20 bds now and that's going to continue to grow um just to give you a little bit of insight
we're going to double down on our footprints in um the asia region obviously big big markets like japan
and korea huge kind of cross-section and interplay um between crypto um and like obviously just web
three in general and massive massive game markets with some of the largest studios being based there
so we're going to continue to double down um and obviously focus on the highest quality games that
are coming out of there but really the takeaway is we have the largest and we have the best team
that's dedicated for web three gaming so we're super proud of that and that's ultimately what
allows us to to have these results and and you know try to how can we how can we ultimately build
this ecosystem and robbie was saying and you heard from michael like when we put all these parts of
the ecosystem together whether it's the open order book that drives liquidity whether it's passport
that's both for onboarding with and also game discoverability start to piece together this ecosystem
that is very very focused and dedicated to games don't care about the defy aspects don't care about
all the other elements that sometimes you know that are out there with respect to other blockchains
and stuff and for us it's just about how do we make this work for games we believe that the team
that is the most empathetic to the customer journey will always win that's you know that's obviously
um leading into some of what we're seeing and then robbie mentioned the partnership with polygon
obviously that's very much that's resonating i think i think it was you um i think rock you were
saying earlier like hey how do you guys how do you guys treat that in market michael hit the nail on
the head we let the developers decide right the best the best tech the best ecosystem i mean whatever
makes the most sense for them we don't really push them either way we really let the market decide and
that's really important to us like we just want to make sure that we're there um and have the the tool
set the kind of the the one stack the full solution devs don't want to be messing around with
smart contract they don't want to be doing all the stuff that takes away from you know really
building these amazing game experiences because at the end of the day the space does not move forward
unless we have super compelling very enriching and fun games to play hey quick question will will the
two that's that's great to know thanks will the two tech stacks the zkb so will will they be able to
be interoperable by any chance because they're both roll-ups at some point yeah yeah that's a great
question um so that's the long-term vision right um ultimately at the end of the day what's immutable
what is immutable immutable is a platform um it is a obviously a set of tools that makes it really
easy for devs to build a core component of that is the roll-up and the one that we're very excited
on is obviously the zk uh evm which is powered by polygon we've obviously as everyone knows um immutable
when we started it was very much built on stark x and that exists and that obviously sits
right alongside that over time there will be efforts to make those interoperable um so that's
absolutely part of it um there will be some games that will be building on one ecosystem others that
will be building on the other um and so there's you know we want to make sure that that that we can
bridge that awesome makes sense yeah yeah for sure for sure um but yeah and i think like just in in
general um what we're seeing right now is uh talked about a bunch of the a bunch of the deals and why
we're seeing a lot of that growth um we we made a bunch of changes of the couple i'd say six to nine
months ago where we really started focusing on quality so there's a ton of teams a ton of games
out there like hundreds we have my team has a we actually probably have the most sophisticated kind
of tracking um in market i know that there's all these lists out there the big blockchain list
um and you have a ton of different crawlers and a ton of different other folks in a space like delphi
we've really put together this massive list um that ultimately says okay cool who are the best
funded games that are out sorry who are all the games that are out there what's their funding
what's the makeup of the team and we basically put them through this really uh like we ultimately
kind of just rate them right because as robbie mentioned like there's going to be a ton of
games that are going to be going live we're trying to figure out like how do we partner with the games
they'll have the highest likelihood of success and ultimately when that happens we all are successful
right and kind of the rising tide lifts all boats and we take this industry forward so we're seeing a
lot more um we all the wins that we basically have the record ones over the last quarter we're going
to be announcing them over the next i think two or so months unfortunately i can't share any of those
names right now but you're going to see us moving into a lot of kind of triple a content so we're
moving much higher at the totem pole um a lot of these teams uh like some of the some of the stuff
that we're seeing is super super exciting so you guys will see that come out and we're also seeing
a lot of migrations from um competing ecosystems so this has been something that we've been focused
on for quite a while um and i think the zk ebm uh product like that's obviously really resonating
with a bunch of folks right you have this as robbie mentioned this perfect combination of the best in
class platform for games and then obviously the best in class uh scaling solution and protocol in
the form of polygon and so the combination of that is obviously really resonating with folks and so
we're seeing a lot of migrations from other ecosystems where they're saying okay cool this is
the home for web3 gaming yeah we're going to build here so i have a lot of exciting announcements up
our up our sleeves and i think one of the ones that we just announced today overlord um they're
announcing that they're coming to the immutable family obviously the um the creeps community i
think they drove something like 220 220 million in volume positioning themselves as kind of the second
i think that's the second highest grossing web3 gaming brand of the last year so super super cool
and we're really excited to partner with folks like them obviously you have folks like illuvium who's on
that um who's uh on the call like a lot of these just have this ambition of onboarding the next 100
million users into web3 and so we're really excited by teams like that so i'll take a pause there see
if anyone has any questions uh i know we have about five or ten minutes before i got the jet
no worries andrew i really appreciate you taking the time to to outline you know the type of quality
of games that are coming i know you tease us a bit there with you know some other games that are
coming down the pipeline i can guess just based off you know my research and everything but i'm not
going to speculate on this uh on you know in this talk here but um i know you guys are going to
probably pull off some really amazing things i'm super excited for it um and i'm super excited for
the games you guys are already working with uh like they really look so fun uh so yeah thank you
they're great they're great i mean a lot of them are here you got undead blocks i don't know if
it's grant on the call absolute legend i see um uh i see the cta team um sammy uh yeah like it's i
mean it's just a testament to the to the teams and the community right it's the folks and the devs
that are building um i think what was the stat cta was trending i think they were the top top most
downloaded game in their category in france i think for four or five weeks in a row he'll probably
correct me um i know undead was one of the earliest ones that went out obviously alluvium they've been
built like incredible right they've been building in public for what two two plus years now it's been
super awesome to see um very very hype they're pulling together multiple multiple experiences
across this crazy world it's uh yeah that's really really really exciting so it's a testament really
to the community and the devs that are out there what and i i love it um you know there there is a lot
of hype but it's not just hype there's there's truly you know they truly are games that's that you
guys have that are awesome that that's the thing that's the thing right like it's uh that's really
important to us of course like you know it's we we want to partner with everyone we want to partner
with like i mean ultimately we're a platform and a tool set that should be like we firmly believe that
this should be democratized anyone should be able to uh you know whether they want to build a game
over the weekend a quick project or if they're going to be building this crazy you know
pace opera mmo rpg that's going to take four or five years um you know doesn't matter what that is
we want to democratize those tools and so the easier that we can make it for these folks it's just uh
just a big testament to folks that are building yeah yeah i got i got a ton of capital waiting to
invest in these games to play them and uh i'm ready for it i don't know andrew if you want to
just start kind of diving into the the next phase here talking to you know you guys as partners and
the games that are here um you you let me know when uh i i gotta ask i gotta ask another question
here you mentioned mmorpgs are there any mmorpgs uh that you're excited about that are being a built
on immutable because that's i think the mmo world because it is like they have their own kind of
economies and you know and just the the the aspects of like you feel like i mean these are metaverse
like you know when i played everquest and when aztec played runescape these are true metaverses
before you know they were branded as metaverses that's what excites me the most in blockchain
gaming is some like a true everquest world of warcraft runescape style mmorpg do we have anything
on the table man uh look what i'm gonna say is keep your eyes peeled keep your eyes peeled the next one
the two months we'll uh we'll have something exciting coming out that'll uh that i'm sure
will will satiate that desire let let us know and we'll help boost the visibility of that with
quicksop because i'm a big mmo fan and i believe in i believe in what you guys are doing i think you
guys are are really killing it yeah um we love that um i very much appreciate the support
yeah we're here for you guys we're here for it the whole the whole movement you guys are creating
but uh yeah maybe we can go ahead and and move into uh kind of like diving into the games that we
have on the panel the kind of what you guys are doing um and who should we kick it off with first
maybe yeah uh i don't know why don't we pass to either cpa um or uh to intro at a medium
let's go here we go hello dude how are you i'm very happy it's 1.3 a.m on the morning
so like everyone is sleeping here but like very happy to be with you um you were talking uh you
were talking sorry about mmo so cross the edis is very happy you know to announce that the mmo of
cross the edges is going to be really soon so we we're working you know to finish that uh for end
of this year and we spent already 16 months on it um all our job was to make an interoperability
between the tcg the card gaming and this mmo so this game called arise will be like the second
office of course the ages and we're gonna soon you know a show to everyone like some video and
like some trader about this game so really excited you know to show that to everyone
awesome yeah about what you you you was saying before so uh we stand like six weeks now uh like
from the 29th march we get like the first position on different country on the app store and also like
winning uh every every week more and more users i'm sorry can you see that again it's too yeah i was
saying that we we have like the top five top two top one position on the the app store in different
countries so in france in australia in portugal in also uh england uh which app store where can our
listeners find this oh many like all the apps or you just have to tap across the ages so the tcg game and
you would be able to find the game uh we already made 200 000 download of uh the the game would have
like more now user of web 2 than web 3 with like uh 14 000 daily user and like 65 000 weekly user
so really happy you know to to get more and more user every every week you know we still have more
and more player the adoption is really good the retention also is really good and what's happened
today you know for all our ecosystem is very great because our success is linked to the success of
ended blog to the success of livium so like it's like a mutual success also the success of golden
chain like all the game have to to build like together and like when it's a successful game it's
success for all the other game it's completely different than you know the ecosystem of web 2
where like everyone is doing his own game you know and like just building his game you know
alone to today you know what we're doing and what we have like this opportunity with the passport of
immutable x and like all the tools that everyone can use we just like building something completely
new because like they have some space for absolutely everyone and the only thing that we have to do today
is um to show to everyone that the game on the web 3 are not scam are not ponzi only and like you have
like a very great project where people you know are building for years now like two three years
like us starting in 2020 and then you know this is going to be like a future of gaming it will take
time for sure indeed however you know i think that we are on the good in the good way
yeah you guys are crushing it and uh and i'm still diving in to uh uh to you know you guys what
everything you guys are doing there was a i think you had a space recently with the mutable guys
uh or or someone i saw it was a massive space i have a friend from uh mgh dao or the hub as they're
calling themselves now guys that are working with like the central land and uh they were like dude you
you need to check out what across the ages is uh doing you know because not only are they already
massive but they're really making uh you know big like really really doing big things in web 3 so
um i'm definitely excited for what you guys are doing and i think i want to continue researching
that you know that what we made you know from the beginning is like we start with uh with books so
we have like seven books the two first was released with like more than one million downloads you have
um the book is translated so you have it in french in english in spanish in japanese in chinese it's
completely free you can go on the website and download the book and the idea is to create the whole ip
so we created the lore we have like a movie animation you have the comics we just launched
the merch um two weeks ago and like what we're building today is we're building a real brand
why because when you create the brand this is something like really sustainable for the long term
so people you know can completely you know be linked you know to this ecosystem and like people
are really happy you know to involve to to be involved on this ecosystem so they learn who are the
character what they're doing what was their life before and like when you have like more than 115
artists like coming from harry potter game of tron star wars marvel desica mix league of legend and
like all the project together it's a really great you know for the ecosystem because like the quality of
the of the card are really great i just share with you on this twitter space you know some card to
show you like the visual you know of the card and uh yeah it's like super exciting you know for us
to to to dive on this journey and like being able you know to evolve and like share that with like
all this community right yeah you guys you guys are crushing it where can people start really
probably going to ask this you know this question for all of you guys here but um i think it's really
important we have a you know a large audience here and and everyone wants to know you know like
where where do you start obviously follow everyone on the panel uh you know they're gonna this this is
how you get the alpha this is how you get the information but but beyond like following you guys
like can you give us an idea of like where's where's the easiest place to just get involved with
across the ages oh yeah yeah indeed so you know you can find us you know on all the social media like
on the website we created a wiki and that means you have like everything on the on the story of
across the ages so you can be able you know to be relinked on the youtube channel on the discord and
telegram and um the the best way you know i think it's the website because like on the website we just
put everything on it and like we keep updates you know every everyone like very uh um like every week
so you can be able you know to to know about what's happened what is our new patch uh what's gonna
happen for us for example the first collection account uh gonna be finished soon so we're gonna
release a second collection called mantris and like so many people are waiting for that and like
this is gonna be like a new step you know for across the ages we have still like a 12 new collection
coming like every six months you have a new collection and like we are really really happy
to share that you know with the community we already sold like more than 40 million card like
digital like 1.5 billion already minted so this is a really good you know and uh yeah we're really
happy you know to see like the people are really involved on the on the journey of across the ages
and like really want to learn about like how this is working because like our job is just doing a
a game a really fun game and not talking anymore about what two or three but just having like a fun
experience and just enjoy you know to spend time into this universe right so and just to kind of
clarify you know people can already you guys have a game you know some people can start playing now but
for people that want to maybe you know dive into things find out more about what you guys are
doing obviously you're saying go to the site and then you're saying there's a another collection
that's coming that is that really somewhere where people can kind of start at you know
acquire that new collection and start playing right away so the game you know the game is absolutely
free so it's a real free to play you don't have to pay nothing you can download the game you know on
the on app store and play store and just download the game and start to play
start to enjoy with the tuto and if you want to dive in the game you really you can you know buy
you know some digital card that you can transform into the nft um you have some packs so like
some specific pack that you you you you can find you know on the immutable platform
that they allow you you know with the main pass to being able to get like this new pack coming
and then you know you have to to to wait you know step by step about like when we're gonna release
that people with this pack and this main pass will have like a priority you know to get this card
and after that you know people are coming after without this pack they will be able you know to
buy cards that base that
awesome there we have it so we we now know how to get involved we know that it's ready for us to get
involved it's free to play there's things to look forward to definitely excited about this
um i i did play pokemon as a as a kid so um i think i could probably pick it up i'm a huge fan
huge fan you were talking about your card pokemon i still have 55 boxes sealed off 1996 of pokemon
wow you know some of those are worth crazy amounts of money now you know there's some editions of like
charizards that are worth a hundred thousand you know i sold some for four hundred thousand you know
that's i love this project of course i sold six boxes of pokemon for two million dollars and with
this money i start cross the age of 2020. no way i'm sorry i'm gonna i'm gonna show i'm gonna show
you a picture you know i'm gonna put it no way to the space and you will see like how many boxes i
have you'll see like it's pretty funny post it in the comments too so the users i will do it i will do
it right now hey i got one more question for you uh while you're doing that i want to know a little
about your inspiration and we have a still a bunch more speakers so we'll get to the next speaker
soon but uh what's your inspiration what's your favorite game of all time me yeah oh my favorite
game is suikoden suikoden you know on playstation one suikoden one and two this was like so awesome
for me like the story is completely insane and like i get like uh some inspiration of this game i'm
using like inspiration for many games but this one like it's like uh uh rpg and like it was really
really awesome like the scenario was insane and like i i was saying to myself that when i'm gonna
be like someone like in the future i will create the game with like a completely crazy scenario it's
like like all my job was to doing something like similar or something like that
awesome well you've definitely created something amazing uh from what i can see i have a lot of
friends that have been talking about uh you know what you guys are doing as well so
you guys are really breaking into space and i i know definitely you know based on what i'm hearing
and and uh hearing you talk here i know it's i need to hurry up and kind of do my dd and finish it and
kind of join the you know the the uh world that you guys are building the brand and all that
thanks a lot for this opportunity thanks a lot for the support and really really proud and happy to
be on the immutable x ecosystem thanks for the the high energy on a 1 30 a.m call for you
right yeah thanks for your patience thanks for your patience no problem but yeah if you're if you're
good there i i think uh we could probably pass the mic over to luvium um you let me know
and yeah and everybody give them a follow guys give everybody on the stage all the games and
the different immutable team give them a follow and and audience members uh give you guys each
other a follow if you see any audience members that look like they're into the similar gaming to you
or whatever uh give the audience uh uh some uh follows to follow each other i always like to say
the community is the most important part of this pokemon
yeah would you like me to speak about alluvium then yes please uh and and thank you for uh you
know being here and um patience and i i you know we just have so many questions and we usually kind
of run our spaces kind of open so with the agenda it was kind of a little hard to you know stay on it
because we are rock and i are very enthusiastic about the space and everything you guys are doing
and gaming is we it's a passion of ours so um thank you uh for being here and yeah let i'd love to dive
into alluvium yeah i'm happy to i really quick um it's it's interesting that you mentioned pokemon
pokemon was the inspiration for the warwick brothers the co-founders of alluvium to actually start
alluvium and build this game uh you know pokemon now that you're a grown-up no offense to
pokemon uh it doesn't hit the same right once you're a grown-up uh because it is a bit more
simple and a bit more juvenile in its stylings and so the co-founders of alluvium wanted to create
something that hits the same or hits as hard as pokemon uh did when you're a kid but as an adult
and i agree with everything that cross the ages uh team is saying about how all boats rise with the
rising tide here in web3 gaming and the best games at least for now are on immutable especially uh
the triple a quality titles like cross the ages and obviously alluvium and then the other guests
here in this space so my name is andrew i'm a host and executive producer at alluvium ultra quick
background on me i co-founded the largest gaming influencer network of all time i've produced over
10 000 gaming videos that have generated over a billion views and i've partnered with blizzard
entertainment to produce their official videos for their esports titles and now i'm using all of
that experience to produce the official content for alluvium uh because i believe uh that they in in
in web3 uh they're sort of what blizzard entertainment used to be they used to be the best game developer
and publisher and let's say last decade i think uh studios like alluvium are could take that place
here in this decade so what is alluvium and why should you care so alluvium has the hook with alluvium
is triple a eye poppin graphics that look as good as if not better than any competing web 2 games uh feel
free to click the shared post at the top of this space don't take my word for it just watch the gameplay
video that my team put together it's a wild fantastical universe with unexpected alluvials
that's sort of the grown-up version of pokemon that you collect and then you battle them in the arena
obviously and what we're doing here is we're creating new experiences our games are designed
from the ground up to be interoperable with all of the other games within our universe and it's
interesting cross the ages mentioned sounds like you guys are going to be doing a similar
concept with your tcg which i've played about 100 hours of i love it uh maybe with your your other
upcoming title that's exciting uh so far this is the first time that this has happened this is like a
massive step forward for this industry as you'll all remember in 2021 uh everybody out there was
pitching a ready player one interoperable experience where you can jump between games and mix and match
intellectual properties and live out your digital fantasy like ready player one right guys you could jump
through a portal from game x to y and use your items and obviously that that promise was a lie and it was
potentially about five years out or more at least so it's out and so alluvium is taking the first step
toward that vision of having our games be interoperable with each other that is step one guys not
interoperable with other games before anyone can realistically tackle that kind of cross studio cross ip
game interoperability and we call this concept interoperable blockchain games so what are the
games so all of our games are currently being beta tested by tens of thousands of gamers starting with
alluvium zero it's our industrial building game available on mobile and pc where you can earn fuel
and that fuel is minted as an nft that is then interoperable and unlocks a new experience in our next
game illuvium overworld which is our open world collection game where you can trade in that fuel
and go capture our illuvials once you capture one of those alluvials that's minted as an nft
and then now that's interoperable to the next game illuvium arena which is our strategic auto battler
game where you can battle your alluvials to become the most dominant ranger in alluvium and so as you
can see we have designed our games from the ground up to where when you accomplish something in one game
and you mint fuel as an nft or alluvials as an nft it unlocks a new experience in the next game
so i think obviously ownership is important in web 3 and it's something that people will kind of have
an aha moment once they actually have an experience but what we're doing is we're using blockchain
technology to give gamers new experiences not just hoping they care about ownership because i don't
think they care about it yet they need to experience it first before they care about it and so our goal
at alluvium is to onboard millions of mainstream gamers all of our games are also free to play
inspire thousands of content creators to play our games across the world and pretend and potentially
to establish a gaming model that web devs and pubs will maybe copy paste the web 2 ones will copy
paste when they decide to enter this space we already have millions of followers and registrations
and we're well on our way with our open beta target being 2023 and that open beta will have
alluvium zero alluvium overworld and alluvium arena simultaneously available to the public free to play
interoperable with each other uh and so if anybody wants to uh don't take my word for any of this if
it sounded interesting just go experience it for yourself uh go to play.illuvium.io just go register
view the infinity gameplay content i've recorded and released on our social media go see it for
yourself and if it inspires you if it looks interesting if you have hearts in your eyes when you see our
intellectual property uh similar to what happened to me when i saw across the ages if it inspires you to go
try it then do it it's all about new experiences and we hope to inspire uh the next generation of gaming
i can see that you guys are definitely doing that um and and i wanted to ask like
because i i know that we have an audience and everyone wants to kind of like probably you know
play games and and get in so i actually recently went on the uh luvidex and i i um got one of the
luvitar uh discs is is that a good entry into the ecosystem i believe uh that also kind of gives me the
ability to play the game uh early is is am i doing it right or is is there maybe a different way that
you would recommend people jumping in you're definitely not doing it wrong um so alluvium
beyond uh started as just like a simple avatar idea and it would be your avatar across all of our games
uh and what you bought was a disc and uh we did a partnership with gamestop and created exclusive
ones with them and the idea is you remember a few years ago the the idea of just a pfp came up and
minting that as an nft so our team thought well why don't we do that but make the art triple a
and make it so that people can combine multiple nfts into one new completely customized nft that
they literally build on the blockchain themselves totally customizable avatar basically and so that
was the sort of idea behind illuvium beyond what you're talking about but then it ended up becoming
its own game because illuvium is a decentralized autonomous organization a dao it means that our
community can basically call the shots on the scope of our games and our experiences and our products
and so they voted to increase that kind of simple avatar concept i described a moment ago and add an
entire collection game on top of that called illuvium beyond and so now you can collect those avatars
you can customize them and now there's a collection game where as you slot them into your collection
you get points achievements and rankings that will be displayed in illuvium's games uh like on
the chest of your character and also your avatar itself uh it will be your avatar across all of our
games in our game universe nice so that's what that experience is and so it was a really cool example of
um our community telling us what they wanted literally voting it into existence and their wish is our
command we went ahead and built it and so that's illuvium beyond well that's impressive and it's it's
i see i have uh now a piece of the history that's you know be it's becoming illuvium so this this is awesome
um yeah so i i and i illuvium is definitely one of those games that were again you know another game
that i want to dive into i work in the industry so as you all on this stage probably know crypto never
sleeps um and it's hard to game sometimes if you know when you're you're so busy but um it's really
therapy for me so like these games that you guys are bringing you know that you bring are brought to
uh the panel here they all look exceptional so i have to dive since we work in the industry
if we play these games we could justify it to ourselves and our wives exactly that this is work
it's a business expense brilliant
yeah awesome i think you really um kind of like highlighted you know what you guys are doing
there was is there anything that you'd kind of want to um add like maybe something else that
uh everyone should be looking out for um i know you've kind of outlined the ecosystem how to get
started um something of that partnership with game stop but um is there anything else that you'd like
to touch on my community manager rich is dming me and he's saying look man you should do an oprah right now
so everyone in this twitter space look under your seats you have an illuvium beta code you get a beta code
you get a beta code you get a beta so basically he's telling me right now if you jump on alluvium's
discord server right now and you tag rich our community manager uh by the way most people that
register don't get beta codes so if you are in this space and you tag rich our community manager on our
discord server and tell him you are in this space he will give you a beta code it's an oprah moment
oh my god that is so awesome okay so how do we get into the discord is it on um let's let's all go
to alluvium like you can write through the uh he shared a a tweet at the top pin tweet alluvium you
can click there you can get to the um to their twitter profile obviously follow it but then you
have the discord link right there in the in the uh message and just go ahead and accept that invite
and that should get you and you know what if you guys are like we're into gaming when you were young
like like many of us but you haven't tried blockchain gaming yet this is a it's a great time try it out uh
don't be a lurker uh don't just watch the gaming industry develop actually try out some of these web3
games they're making big progress they're most of them aren't quite i think at the end goal yet but
there's a lot of progress being made it's it's really impressive every every few months i look
at a new game and i'm like wow this is actually starting to get to like web 2 experience you know
it's not there yet though yeah i'm actually in the discord right now everyone's going to have to go
through um kind of like an approval process you know basically make sure you're not a bot i it's
going to be a little difficult for me to uh do this while talking so i will i will join uh but
i guess uh just to clarify it um hashtag uh what what is the hashtag again andrew you will tag rich
you'll see him on the user bar on the side he is our community manager rich the community manager
tag him say you were in this twitter space you get a beta code you get to experience uh alluvium
uh overworld private beta 2 and uh go capture alluvials yourself and battle
nice awesome i appreciate that do you get anything do you get like do you get besides the access do you
get like an nft or something or can you guys give an nft or something yeah so we um alluvium uh is
really uh focused on a fair launch uh and so we don't provide any nfts before we launch that could
potentially give any players any sort of power or gameplay advantage uh over any other players prior
to launch and so the only nfts that are currently available are the cosmetic ones the avatar ones i
mentioned a moment ago in alluvium beyond those disks or promotional uh nfts uh other than that um
i won't i won't go into it but we do have alluvium land that unlocks the ability to uh play alluvium
zero but that's a separate game and a separate experience so we can't hook you up any nfts from
the beta yet uh but you can experience the game and uh you know and and come find out for yourself
do you think what we're doing is triple a graphics do you think what we do what we're doing could
attract mainstream gamers maybe you don't believe it maybe you do but until you play it and experience
it for yourself you'll never know i love it and i i will get uh i'll get this straight so i can
go test it i think you guys give away any nfts we got to be our the audience here's got to be first
to know so if you end up deciding to give anything away later let us know and and quick swap will uh
will uh like retweet it or talk about it or something on spaces or something yeah yeah thank
you andrew this is an awesome opportunity thank you for you know kind of helping us dive in to
lovium and you know get to know everything a little bit better and and uh you know appreciate your time um
um so yeah appreciate you and and i do you want to pass the mic or how do you feel at this point
who we got in here we got dead blocks in here uh oh they just they just poofed they were just here
a moment ago so what other games here in the immutable ecosystem um uh have yet to be able to
speak but please speak up guys yep shard bound um at least on my you know my screen here you're uh
right next to me so i'm just shouting you out not sure if you want to go ahead and uh take it away
i love your guys uh uh game board and the graphics um so yeah i'd love to hear more oh thanks yeah uh
no no i appreciate it thanks thanks for uh for having me here today uh really excited to get a
chance to to kind of talk about shard bound with everyone here um we've been pretty quiet but things
are going to get pretty loud here as we as we move towards our open beta later this year um but yeah
so shard bound is a you know you know i guess uh you know before before sort of getting the shard bound
like quick quick background on me um i've been making games for for for 20 plus years uh in my my you know
most recent previous life i found out a company called super evil mega corp where we built uh
the first mobile moba um you know of that that really kind of became the world's premier mobile
esport um launched it off a game called vainglory we launched that off the stage at the apple worldwide
developer conference in 2014 you know very much at a time where mobile games was uh pretty taboo
for core gamers right and so um you know really excited to be in a position to be
continuing to usher gamers um you know first of all building games that are that are gamers for
us and experiences that are deeply kind of gamer centric um but then to really kind of break down
barriers for them and expose them to the frontier and the the the new you know new paradigms and new
technologies um prior to prior to founding uh and operating vainglory um i've worked in mmos for a long
time and saw microtransactions go from being a you know again a bad word to unlocking experiences like
league of legends right and uh mmos before that just you know it's been an incredible journey over 20
plus years to watch the industry evolve and watch you know really visionary pioneering games bring
players across the threshold uh and to be kind of part of that history is you know that's what excites
excites me and so you know shardbound really is a game first and foremost about bringing core gamers
together you know showing them the the magical kind of new possibilities of what is becoming possible
that has been either impossible or difficult or or um you know impractical in in the web 2 space uh and
to start to to really dazzle them with with these new types of experiences player owned economies the
ability to simply trade things right which apple doesn't really like you do in web 2 we we we you
know ran into and so um you know really excited to be building this game now the game itself is uh
you know a hybrid of collectible card game um and tactics so think you know hearthstone meets final
fantasy tactics right and um it's a game that is really built uh to be sort of deep and immersive i mean
take a look at the the the go to the website uh www.shardbound.com um uh you know you can
pre-register with your either email or uh if you already have an immutable passport um take a look
at the game gorgeous gorgeous gorgeous execution really deep and strategic though and i you know i think
for my money um you know having built kind of deep strategy games you know that that have penetrated
through into into sort of mainstream kind of mass market success like i i really do think you live
and die by the depth of your gameplay and so this is a game that is meant to be a a thousand hour game
something that players will dedicate large portions of their of their life to learning about learning the
nuance about not only playing for a thousand hours but you know watching youtube content creating youtube
content um and like and building and interacting in these communities right because that's that's
really ultimately what builds the brand and and and we you know similarly to i think across the ages
um you know we really focus and alluvium as well you know we really focus on what is it going to take to
get gamers um comfortable with this new technology right and it's the things that they've seen kind of
of looking at the rear view mirror yeah you know not not not great from a you know uh or scary right
you know i just say like new different scary so how do you appeal to these gamers and give them a sense
that you know you're one of them you're building the types of things that they want to to play um
and that they can trust you and so you know with shardbound we're aiming to build a great game we're aiming
to build a great home for core game development talent for core game players uh and ultimately
really think about you know what can we do over decades of uh you know relationship building with
players as we unlock new new types of gameplay and build out the shardbound universe um so yeah
very excited to be here very excited to get a chance to talk to all of you about that happy to kind of
dig into any of these pieces uh but but yeah you know we're we're quickly moving to beta um
and uh actually going to be doing our first exclusive play test here in july so uh i'm not
not quite in a position yet to be given out you know oprah style giving out all the codes but if you
do want to go over to our discord our discord and mention that you're in the quick swap twitter space uh
uh the first person who does that is going to get an exclusive spot in our exclusive play test which
is happening in july and that's the really the sort of first look uh at this game uh and sort of what
we've done with it so um head on over there one way or another though go to shardbound.com
pre-register uh and i think you you know even just for doing that you get a free exclusive uh card
that'll be playable claimable and uh playable in the open beta uh before the end of the year
awesome yeah i i actually saw maybe a couple months back you guys i believe were one of the
first like games to launch it like in the first cohort of like um i don't know exactly like the
category title but i remember you guys came out with um a bunch of games that were launching with
immutable and you guys really stood out to me um i'm actually in the discord already so um i'll have to
reach out there run run i have a lot of homework to do obviously uh from what i can see here uh
there's a lot of great games and um it's going to be really fun diving into all your guys's games but uh
yeah so you know i'll say that we're you know we are jennifer alluded to sort of the the kind of uh
really amazing new sort of partnership model that the alluvium game studios is building out and we
feel very very very fortunate to be you know one of the three games um participating in that in that
program and working very very closely with them it does let us you know just focus on again you know
we spent 20 plus years and building great game experiences moment to moment experiences for players
deep strategic rich meaningful uh experiences um but you know you shouldn't trust us you know with
writing smart contracts not yet we hope to get there but you know it's it's been an incredible
accelerator to have the immutable team in our corner uh as we look to kind of chart chart this
future because it's going to require both sets of skills like you know i think no you know we we
haven't seen sort of this mass market breakthrough hit right um come from kind of like the native web
3 community yet and certainly we've seen a lot of you know web 2 people really not get it and you
know we want to be humble about that sort of admit that that you know we aren't um you know immediately
sort of uh in the know in a lot of the stuff but these kind of partnership models really do unlock
kind of this gateway to the next you know 100 million gamers right the the the total sort of
market in in kind of you know the the broader gaming spaces orders of magnitude larger than what
we've seen so far in the web 3 space so you know really aiming to build those bridges towards absolute
you know bang and scale uh mass market adoption right and i believe it i believe it in you know
with uh you know the um immutable team there you know everything that uh they can provide like just
together i think all you guys are going to exceed do some amazing things bring in mass adoption i i
really believe you know you guys and polygon you know you guys are the guys are going to bring in
and it's just uh in a mass adoption and um uh i'm you know i'm really i'm here for it i'm excited for
it i i guess you know to kind of reiterate if people want to get started a great place is obviously to
follow you on twitter but uh go ahead join the discord and you can kind of keep in touch and um you know
be ready for what's coming down the pipeline but uh yeah i appreciate it so if the if the fans in
the audience listeners uh so that at the at the uh um the board above you can see their game this
reminds me of the anime sword art online by the way i don't know if there's any inspiration
i i know of the anime uh it's it's one i haven't actually watched yet but i am an anime fan it's
it's a cute one it's a fun one um it's kind of like a little romantic uh little incest uh but you
know that's common in anime for some weird reason whatever you gotta look past but um it's a good one
it's it's like about these guys who go into a metaverse and uh once they get into the metaverse the
game creator of the metaverse um basically pops up in the game and tells everyone uh you can't leave
they're wearing these headsets and he says if you if you leave uh the headset if you try to exit the
game the headset will fry your brain and so these people are stuck in this game and it's got this crazy
like uh like uh cloud kind of planet things kind of like avatar and you gotta it you gotta get to the
top level of 100 floors whatever it's a pretty cool one sword art online yeah don't don't reveal our uh
our marketing our growth hack here uh oh no are you gonna lock people in and fry their brains bro
come on come on don't do that man they're definitely looking for for ways to get people locked in but
that's a very interesting universe yeah what's your uh what's your favorite game of all time
oh god too many too many to pick um i probably iko uh on ps2 if anyone anyone remembers that but uh
i'd say you know so so many here was my magic i'm a big from that perspective and uh also diablo 2
is a huge huge inspiration for me like for a lot of things might and magic that was a that was playstation
one right um a lot of platforms um i i played it mostly on on pc um all the way up through yeah heroes
six or something like that yeah a lot of uh kind of a kind of a prototypical sort of like
town building mashup with uh hex based tactics and you know go go figure that uh continues to be a
a big interest about nice awesome i definitely appreciate you you know explaining everything
and um i'm excited for shardbound uh do you want to pass the mic or i am i just want to be kind of
considerate everyone's time i know people have been with us here it's it's thank you guys for
for for staying up here and uh supporting each other and um you guys all seem like a really
awesome bunch i see some audience members that have been here for the whole two hours so far
it's still going so cheers uh yeah just real quick shout outs to the audience because they're the most
important part but we've got uh penny bags uh crypto canuck rainbow odds maker soul strona 888 lens
diamond hands 369 husky t alexios atlas oh over at quick swap bd uh and listings uh let's see
undead blocks they were up speaking earlier are they going to speak by the way undead blocks
i see them in the audience but they were going to speak earlier i think or they were a speaker
well they keep getting rubbed i think uh oh gone
okay okay shall i throw it i'm sorry uh undead blocks can i throw it to that yeah sure
yeah go for it what what's your name over at shardbound by the way what do we call you
call me bo bo cool nice to meet you bo nice to meet you bro
all right undead seems to be up again what's up everybody sorry i keep getting rubbed we've got
some bad weather here in my neck of the woods and it just will not let up uh it seems like every time
i come up to speaker it kicks me the hell out so you can hear me give me some thumbs up give me
something down there in the crowd get everybody excited up uh we are undead blocks from wagyu games
uh we are 100 free to play uh all you need is an email create a password verify that you're a
person that by verifying that email and you're ready to rock and roll uh we have our own wallet
that actually if you don't know anything about web3 or blockchain technology we actually facilitate
that for you on the back end if you do you can connect uh 18 different compatible wallets that we
have that you can connect to trying to make it completely fun as everybody else has kind of
talked on earlier getting the community involved in every single aspect we've ran tournaments since
last uh first weekend of july actually coming up on our year anniversary uh we have given back in
multiple ways to our community those that have been with us since the beginning in our genesis collection
and those that are just playing for free that's coming in having a ball we've had two live events
one that was in nashville one that was in texas uh continue to build those out to go in and build
education and the schools we are working with the state of texas on some things there did an event
there we had xbox and mavericks gaming section lobo gaming uh gearbox gaming quite a few uh web2
large gaming infrastructures and large uh gaming platforms that we've been really trying to tap
into and bring more players in uh we had quite a few students from middle schools and high schools that
come out to that event our first event we had a large uh amount of more adults that come out we're
trying to hit every single aspect that we possibly can to bring players in make it fun for them
also while getting their feedback on what we can make better uh to try to continue to be the
most triple a game that we possibly can be uh we're going to be at rare evo and some of these conferences
coming up hey before you go on can we get uh oh we got it someone put it up on the jumbotron uh yeah
it helps a lot with with gaming for people to be able to see what we're talking about so if you guys
want to check out there they've got their twitter and the jumbotron it looks like there's a little
video check out so you get a little visual aspect of what he's talking about but yeah go ahead undead
blocks and what's your name yeah 100 percent my name is kyle gordon i'm the director of business
development uh forgot to actually pin something up on the jumbotron so thank you whoever actually did
do that you can check us out at undeadblocks.com and make sure you give us a follow as said before
give everybody a follow up here that's the easiest way that you can find us um as going back into you're
going to be able to find us more some more of these events that we're going to continue to be
out doing really fun things trying to get more people out at these events doing live things to
where you can come out uh going to be getting some more game uh talking to some other gaming uh games
that are going to be coming out with us to where they can showcase their technology as well whether
they're having a beta something that you can play it might be even just a trailer something to
showcase some of these new games that are coming out especially with immutable x uh trying to showcase
a lot of the technology that we are uh still building in the background some maps and some
things like that that we're continuing to build out uh some more weapons packs we do have three full
collections two of those are fully immersed in game that's the genesis and the apocalypse collection
uh we are going to be adding a few more to the apocalypse collections there's three more packs
that's going to be coming out that's going to get some more excitement so we've got a lot of things
that's happening on our end uh we're going to be pushing out like i said for a lot of these live
actual events a lot in the education and a lot in the infrastructure building out of our maps and
things like that a few cases of interoperability i know we did a large one uh last year with my pet
hooligan we're going to be reaching out with some more people and doing some more cool cases of our
interoperability some of these to be live to where you'll be able to do uh uh what's the word
i'm trying to think of you can do puzzles and you can actually do quests in person to actually get
certain things in game that's going to unlock there's some things that we're talking with partners
uh to use some of immutable x's technology with the zk sync to actually implement that so that's
going to be fun and cool when that comes up but we're trying to do everything that we can on the
scope to keep it fun exciting and keep people playing and keep their ideas flowing
awesome and i love to hear that you guys are out you know in irl and and like hitting these events
um our marketing firm lunar digital assets did some research uh probably towards the beginning of the
year and we we noticed that for for games some of the the major traction and awareness that uh
just across the board just games in general that they get is on you know on the floor of at these
you know um you know conventions and irl like events and stuff so it's it's it's awesome to see you
guys are doing that as well and your game looks looks awesome i've i i um like can can you uh tell us a
little bit or actually okay sorry my my screen was glitching for a second uh sometimes twitter does that
but but but yeah can um can you tell us a little bit about like the gameplay itself like what uh
what like how that works with um undead blocks it's a first person shooter think of call of duty
zombies uh we're built in unity you can play us on pc and mac we're optimized for the m1 chips we are
trying to optimize for the m2 chips it's not the top priority right now but we will be optimized for
them we will be on mobile something we've been working on but we're trying to make a lot of
things as possibly the best that we can before we pay that porting house to go over to mobile
if you've ever done that it's not cheap so we don't want to have more money that we have to spend
to go in and fix more things when that happens uh you can play with playstation and xbox controllers
that's ps4 ps5 xbox one and xbox 360 controllers if you're like me that's how i have to play or i completely
suck you can play with keyboard also as well uh keyboard mouse uh we right now uh oh there's four
different genesis collection packs and there's four as well of the apocalypse there's three more that's
coming uh there there is our loop coffings that is actually uh launched with immutable x uh you can
come in and get those using their technology uh i think it's token dro or uh yes uh you can use
token drove i believe it is marketplace uh that's about pretty much our game and a sum we're adding
a few more details to where uh we have loot boxes or loot coffins or loot boxes in game uh one is z
bucks which is green z bucks the other is gold z bucks if you have a genesis or apocalypse collection
nft you can actually earn in game daily uh uh what else am i forgetting i'm sure i'm forgetting a few
other things uh we have a mario kart uh style that's going to be coming up to where you'll
actually be able to mess with your competitor uh with other uh teams that you'll be playing against
and then also possibly help such as uh get more ammo revive people things like that with your
partners that's going to be coming up that we're building on the back end um there's a lot of things
that we're still building out but the biggest thing that we are very very proud of is what we've
launched what you can play right now that is 100 live uh trying to bring in more downloads we've
got 143 000 downloads so uh we're trying to push towards a million we believe that mobile will most
definitely get us there and uh we're going to be having a big international push coming up as well
we've got some people that's going to be working with us out of the philippines and some of the other
places there in southeast asia that's really going to bring in some more players as well especially
when we get onto the mobile platform awesome yeah 143 000 downloads is a ton for a for a blockchain
game yeah yes sir we've had tournaments to have up to 10 000 players with each and different ip and to
verify that they're a real person i've had 3 000 people come out in person and play a tournament of
ours uh like i said we're work we're working with the texas a university of texas a and m we're
working with oklahoma sooners we had the governor's office of texas come out there's a gentleman that
was in here that is your gaming commissioner of the united states we're working directly with him
from our understanding we're the only web 3 project that's doing that he's working directly with xbox
co-serve some very large people in the space uh we've got some very large people that's wanting to
work with us and we're trying to move the envelope forward i've been in the space a long time so i
love pushing this space forward awesome yeah we can see you're doing that and and uh yeah i was kind
of like watching the video while you're talking here on jumbotron and uh gameplay looks nice and smooth
looks uh like fun um exciting i've played games like left for dead in the in the past so you know i i don't
you know i don't want to make any comparisons or anything but i can definitely see that the game looks
your guys's uh game looks very fun so awesome um is there anything else that you want to favorite
game kyle all time oh shit that's hard man that's real hard i used to play a lot of metal gear solid
a lot of splinter sale a lot of duke nuke also was into racing as well so i mean it's it's hard to pin
it to one but something of that genre i love metal gear growing up i played uh i didn't play the old
i believe there's like a nintendo version yep but i i didn't play that maybe even it's hard no not
sorry yeah nintendo for sure but uh i played everything from ps1 all the way up to the new
stuff that's it's been out i think like it's ps3 that might might have been the last release i love that uh
i love the the way that they really captivated the game uh the gamers like in the storyline i mean
such a beautiful and uh amazing storyline but anyways i'm a big nerd but that's that was an
exceptional game i love that one but yeah thanks thanks for sharing and uh again everyone give uh
give them a follow everyone on the stage i know we're kind of you know we've been here for a while but uh
rock and i are actually totally used to this usually when we have our spaces we can go for
like three hours and and uh i know we're kind of uh uh ending here soon probably but uh if not that's
okay because uh we're ready for it um do let's see i know we have aqua down here uh alay did you want
to kind of take it forward and tell us what you guys are doing and if any audience members uh
want to jump up and ask any questions we'll try to make a little bit of time for that but we will
end soon we were supposed to end 20 minutes ago so we'll try to wrap it up here pretty soon but if
any audience members have any questions uh or just want to talk about you know their favorite game or
any or where they think blockchain gaming is going or anything uh feel free to request and if we have
some time we'll get you guys up go ahead and you can start requesting now and uh we'll try to get at
at least a couple up yeah alay are you there
hey rock am i rugged no i i can't hear anything either
got it i'm happy to stick around for a little bit and answer questions too uh if the audience has
them awesome i know who is that speaking andrew andrew with alluvium oh great thanks andrew yeah
likewise i'm happy to stick it stick for a bit awesome yeah so we've we've done this before and
and sometimes you know i think people are shy but don't be shy this is this is the future of our
industry here this is mass adoption uh you want to ask any questions or everyone's here ready to
yeah we so did we have one so we're waiting on the one speaker and then i think yeah we have a bunch of
requests coming in so we'll start approving some of these requests um if anyone is totally done
speaking if you can drop we'll make a couple uh all right does this work some audience but does this
work you're there we can hear you okay wow i work in tech look at me um real smart guy um well nice
nice to meet you guys i'm alay uh i'm the head of marketing here at aqua we are an infrastructure
platform and marketplace that's focused on building tools to make devs lives easier right like we know
resources are very scarce uh things are very slim and they're everyone's trying to develop games so
we've built things like our embedded marketplace feature which is a plug and play so they can just
focus on building fantastic games um we in addition to that we've started to work on our machine learning
and our sort of data offerings uh to give the context right you can give devs all the data you want but
to actually give them the context of how powerful they can utilize it and what's actionable that's really
what we're trying to provide is a very comprehensive platform that weaves really nicely into things like
passport uh so you have one complete experience right we have we we all know the major challenges
right now are onboarding uh making it easy enough for your broad gamer because not everyone is super
duper rich uh and can hold on to every asset so we are building things like player safety where
if you haven't used it in a while we might suggest hey why don't you sell it because you can try this
new game uh so for us it's looking at nfts in a very different way no offense if you're into collecting
monkey photos but aqua we're gaming only uh so we focus solely on in-game items with utility and for us
the most important thing is retention right we we always see these mints happening where people go live
they're they're selling out collections but no one's playing the game and that's not to say that
we're alienating collectors but when we think about how we ingest the game on aqua we're actually
thinking about what does a player care about so if you go to aqua.xyz and you go to gods unchained
you'll see that we have performance stats of each items because gamers care about progression that's
what they really want they want to get better at the game and the beauty of blockchain for us is that
you're not going to make money necessarily sure you might you might have a rare card but the most
important thing is you can recoup some of your money and you can then maybe try something else
maybe it's a new play style maybe it's a different game um and that's how a mass gaming audience works
and that's really the way we see onboarding the next you know 100 million uh is their their funds
are not unlimited right we have to give them the ability to actually play a game have an easy point
of entry a lot of games that we're seeing you know have very high price points but we have to exceed
things well beyond uh things like hearthstone and and the rest of the titles out there and a little
background about myself uh i spent the last three and a half years i was the global head of social
at riot games uh social influencers and pr at riot games um so oh nice built that built that influencer
ecosystem uh from scratch you know was was took a you know taking us from league of legends eventually
launching valorant legends of runeterra tft uh even our our you know animated television show with
netflix and it was a crazy fun time lots of learnings but what we have to do as you know partners all
together is we have to figure out what we're doing differently and how we're onboarding with habits that
exist for current gamers we can't assume that everyone is going to be pouring in uh through a
funnel which you know we believe is currently broken or the funnel that currently exists from an
acquisition standpoint is actually focused on a funnel built for collectors uh which was prioritizing
anonymity right but gamers don't really care for anonymity they want to be known they like to stream
they like to go on youtube they want personality and so for us we think about the context the content
because everyone should know why an asset costs 50 bucks right this is the thing we hear a lot in
in the space of web 3 is ua doesn't work and that's simply because it's a brand new studio brand new ip
and the price points are quite high so we work very very deeply with games to map out how can we help
you reposition some things right like think about your xbox account that is a wallet they just don't
call it a wallet so when we work with people like imx and they've got passport it has the components and
utility but it doesn't have that intimidating factor so everything that we're trying to do is to bring it
back to a web 2 experience at one point we thought we were you know web 2.5 then we said web 2.2 i think
now we're just back to web 2 because aqua's goal is we want to make sure five years from now people
just say they don't say i'm playing a web 3 game they just say i'm playing a great game uh right now
you don't go around and say i'm playing a console game i'm playing this game you just say i'm going
to go play a game and for us that's really the ultimate goal is to figure out how do we scale things
properly how do we actually get you know uh esports up and running which is in a game life cycle
from a publishing standpoint very very far away uh you know esports starts with self-organized
tournaments then it moves into other other things so for us we're we're really thinking about what is
a long-term play uh and how do we help our game partners actually get there and we were and by doing
so working very very closely with imx wow so you guys are really um i would you guys are like
advisors then in a way is that am i using the saying that right or um we well i think we're just uh we
like to partner at a deeper level i and and yeah if we are supporting you with marketing campaigns if
we're supporting you with user acquisition if we're supporting you it's you know just plug and play of
our embedded marketplace um you could be calling us advisors but really it's all of these components
that work together right you can't just pick one of these things and try to go out there and acquire
players that's a very direct response approach uh and direct response does not work because they
don't know you right there they've already been you know we're playing heartstone and we've got to be
above and beyond to convince them to stop cracking packs and start playing gods unchanged or playing
another any of these other titles which are actually very good games but it's the idea and the positioning
that you're gonna make a lot of money because again we don't play games to make money we play games to
have fun and if we can position that and you make a great game the money will follow but it's just a
different life cycle right yeah i get where you're coming from because it in my life over in a sense
i've been a gamer i will focus on and this is just my perspective but you know i'll focus on one game
for a long time and uh it'll take something pretty profound to make me kind of switch over and then start
playing another game you know just whatever it is maybe it sounds looks more interesting or
and so i think that's what you're trying to do you're you're trying to open it up to where
these web 3 games because they are they obviously these games all of you guys up here are exceptional
fun to play um you know look like you guys are going to offer a lot in the future as well but but uh you
have to kind of get to the heart of these gamers and show them why uh and some you know they should
switch over yeah yeah some people play two games right and it's you know our analytics dashboard
that comes with our embedded marketplace the reason we do that is so you understand what's
happening in the landscape because if maybe there are tcg players in lat am and you realize your own
audience is not skewing heavily in that region it might help you with ua ads because that audience is
not very familiar with crypto they're growing they're gaming more there's more expendable income
as the middle class grows so we want to make sure that we're being very targeted because we can't
compete with the the big game studios just yet that are spending millions on ua right so we have to
think of different ways and it's a balance between upper funnel uh content creators all the way down to
maybe third fourth time you've convinced somebody enough with showing them gameplay showing them
different features functionality and maybe a special bundle to join and try it out then you get one
shot right gamers try it once if they love it they'll stay if they hate it they're going to tell their
friends and so for us we're thinking about you know we're trying to help all of the games and we now have
really really good titles but it's also a matter of segmentation it's server load if you acquire a bunch
of players in southeast asia you might just make your game lag because ltv is very low so how do you
keep a cap on user acquisition and create a balanced environment where queue times work but you actually
have players with high ltv balance with uh enough volume that you have a massive game you have a big hit
on your hands and so all of these things sort of work together and that's really why we felt the need
to offer uh these specific pillars where you you can't just go with one you really have to think
about it as an entire life cycle right uh and this is a little bit of a selfish question you know i'm
i'm uh the cso at lunar digital assets i i love analytics and you know fighting patterns and these
kind of things uh so i don't want to get like too nerdy here but but just i'm wondering in general like
what type of like analytics are you looking at to like kind of shape um you know forming the patterns
and realizing what where you guys need to pivot or what you need to do if you can like just lightly
touch on that maybe yeah i'm nowhere near as smart as our machine learning team it's two guys with phds
between the three of us we have two phds so ultimately all i can say is we take we take the on-chain data we
we we show it's you know it's all public information but we're showcasing it in a way that
is relevant to gamers um and we also know just from our experience you know more context on the
company our ceo sean ryan was uh you know started facebook gaming uh you know years ago working under
zuck and 25 years ago or more than that he worked with our cto john cahill when they launched sega
dreamcast so the three of us sort of you know very weird bunch but it worked and we know that
in certain regions certain genres are starting to scale up faster and in other regions you can get
a ton of players for very cheap from a ua perspective but the server load doesn't work
ua is not there uh and how much time are they spending in game right we have to stop focusing on
what's the price what's the primary mint what's all this stuff but actually focusing on retention
and how do you retain players what are the mechanisms you can pull uh where they play a
game five days in a row uh and then they invite their friends that's really what gets you long-term
value as opposed to hey here's an initial item we're still not quite clear on what that item will do
um and then they have tons of options right from web 2 to web 3 there's a tremendous amount of games
and we are unfortunately under that umbrella or that cloud at this point where everyone you say
krypton people are like gross and you're like no no i promise you it's not like that and it genuinely
has the ownership aspect it gives you the flexibility if and when you decide to get out but people still
don't see that so we have to find different ways of getting them that message and getting them to try
the game uh i think what's happening a lot is we're we're using verbiage we're we're being very crypto
centric and there is no funnel the way that i put is aqua's building the traditional player acquisition
funnel because there's so many pieces missing uh because the previous funnel was built for collectors
and that's not to say that we don't need them we need volume we need to still be relevant and have
trades happening and art is still a fantastic thing it's finally empowering digital designers to
be paid what they're worth but for from our perspective we need a dedicated space
just for games that are truly going deep to to serve players hey i have to ask you this as well um
and you sound like i mean you're really doing some great work and helping push this space forward
i working with linear assets a polygon uh i i've joined tons of like polygon initiatives and been
kind of with polygon since the beginning um i am wondering because i speak to so many games uh
obviously at all different levels are you guys looking like can i refer i know this is like on the
spot we're in a space but are you guys looking for referrals do you want me to pass games your
way or no absolutely not no i'm just kidding yeah send them our way we want to we want to talk to
we want to talk to everyone we want to figure out what is the value prop and when we think about the
games in the in the space right there's triple a titles that takes a long time to build right and and
we don't to make web3 gaming uh uh you know a part of mainstream we don't necessarily need triple
a titles you need easy point of entry and fun games and that's really where we can actually win
and and then we have time to wait for triple a titles right um which those take years to develop
so we we want to make sure we have variety of games variety of genres so if you have introductions
we're more than happy to meet them awesome i'm definitely keeping you in mind i mean i did i love
how you really explain things and kind of outline like how you see um where games can improve like
games can speak to their users and to the people when their hearts over i love all that stuff and to
to um hear someone talk about that is is awesome so i i definitely going to keep you guys in mind and
maybe we can talk later on absolutely yeah but uh yeah i won't keep like asking all these questions
i'll leave you alone no they're all great questions appreciate it hi i have a question
can i can i speak am i good uh yeah sure were you were you done yeah yeah i'm done if you if i'm
totally down for questions cool cool sure um i don't know who's speaking uh he was just an audience
member awesome audience member um so my background thank you my background is in uh uh film and broadcasts
um used to do youtube all that stuff and uh a little bit of social marketing all that tick tock
whatever all that stuff um so i've now be kind of a transition to game developing and uh building
like my own v2 studio in unreal engine you can look at that on my uh on my profile um but you know for me
it's really hard to convince others that this is going to be a thing that like crypto is
is you know you say it and anyone who's in your kind of circle right now is stopped at it and
they're just like oh this is this guy yeah all the time i went to a riot leadership dinner and they
were like you used to be different and i was like guys trust me you know they're like you used to
protect players you're a you're a crook and i'm like no no trust me this is this is real because it's
ownership and the example i give is you know we were lucky enough to to design skins with louis vuitton for
instance and i was that was one of my main projects and uh the skins were awesome we made clothing
lines that sold in stores and the clothes were super ugly by the way they were just absolutely
disgusting but uh but it's sold out so we're like all right fine and the thing is i would just like
those skins but they're locked in my riot account right i don't have any access to them unless i log in
and i just look at them there but what if i just want them uh not to say that i'm gonna sell them
but it would be better to have a choice about what to do with those items and that's really
the positioning is you're spending all this money and it's not to make money it's to recoup money i
remember you know when you when i was younger my parents would buy me one game and i would play that
one game and then i would go to the local you know game store and i would trade that in and buy a
different game i couldn't buy two games um because that was too expensive and that's really
when we think about that model that's most of gamers yeah well for me personally it's all the
time i've spent in mmos uh for sure what you know yeah so that's kind of where i i mean i don't even
have time to play mmos anymore uh working so much and doing other things but it's like how do you bring
value to people in a way that isn't like hey give me your money and i hope that uh you know
you'll stick around long enough to see this develop and i think that's probably the the big issue for a
lot of people right now whereas you know if a company were to say hey let's actually make a game
that's good and has good mechanics and it's fun and then uh give out some nfts for free yep and then
the only time we make money is when they make money and you know you can kind of get rid of that scam
narrative if you're actually delivering something that is good but i think that's easier said than
done exactly hopefully that gets built within the next you know couple of years uh or maybe you know
it's right around the corner who knows but um yeah i think that's kind of an interesting thing i've
observed from it for the last two years yeah it is really interesting that gamers uh are not really uh
uh feeling or loving or looking into the mainstream gamer audiences not loving cryptos not digging into
crypto they don't care that much but it's funny that the builders the game i mean the builders see
things before the retail users right the builders of email and the internet they understood what
internet was going to be when everybody was laughing at them saying internet was just a fad so like all
it's you see on this call how many uh serious builders like you know heads of riot divisions and
things multiple on this one call um you you have all these hardcore people that work in gaming and
understand and are building this stuff they all see it like all the gaming companies are finding ways to
and they're or they're frantically wondering shoot what do we do here like this is coming we need to figure
it out yeah look at the job and the retail users will follow once we accomplish our mission which
is to actually build the stuff they want to play and the tech it's hard to build on this tech it's not
it's it's not like it's a totally different game to build expensive high costs and and then we try to
recoup costs and we try to do primary mints things like that but what it does is it breaks the cycle of
you know would you rather have a player playing your game for five years and do the a slower milking
of funds or would you rather have them try one item at 80 bucks at the primary min and then it's not
really what they thought it was right right and it's harder said than done yeah exactly and i mean
think about battlefront 2 they they charged 80 bucks for the for a darth vader dlc right we're talking
new ip uh unknown studios and we will eventually get there we're not that far off but it's the positioning
and it's the targeting and acquiring the right players and not to say again that we're going to
alienate uh the collectors but if you could get collectors to actually take action and maybe you
have to you know log into the game client you have to do something rather than here's just a drop here's
something that you can just collect in your wallet right well i think giving them incentive to uh like
be somewhere at a certain time this is a good like reward or something or you know you could say
like gamestop has a something you go to the store uh for this how dare you mention gamestop no i'm just
kidding yeah yeah you get you get an item and and uh you know that that item uh is now something that you
can trade or sell right it's just like just to give so there's a whole marketing world out there that
i don't think other people are seeing either um yeah it's like proving that you were there for a
particular thing um is definitely a powerful thing that uh i don't know i just feel like people aren't
doing it enough um yeah we did og badges there's different ways than turning everything into
something on chain worth value right like if you were to give them uh a special uh avatar like the
some of these things work depending on the genre and it's it's really about point of entry barrier of
entry the more that you see collectors uh you know primary events sell out 10 000 run awesome
they raise funds we know why they needed it it it's just a part of the ecosystem right now
but what that does is when somebody wants to actually play the game and they have to the first
thing they need to do is buy a hundred dollar asset they're immediately just going to say well i'm
going to go play a game that is letting me do this for free or half the cost from a studio that i've
heard of before and that's where we're sort of alienating a tremendous we're making it very
intimidating um and we have to broaden that point of entry so so for me personally as the thing i've
been developing um it's it's more focused on interactive content like twitch stuff um or
interactive gaming it's like a 24 7 thing and um uh you know my goal is just to make it fun make
it good make it so when you log on to it it's like actually like you want to be there uh you're
not doing it just for a reward right um but as a builder doing that it's hard to decide what to build
on uh because you have immutable you have you know game stop again with player and this tyco thing and
then you have like loop ring or i'm like i'm like what do i what do i actually there's so many yeah
are they all going to be interruptible like is that okay then it's matter or you know who gives you the
best stuff yeah even on the the topic of twitch right there's this fallacy where everyone's like
we're gonna go live on twitch and i'm like to who right like there's 35 people can concur viewers uh
that in terms of a publishing life cycle comes much later in the game because the first thing that a
gamer does is they go and search on youtube right they're looking for educational content and that's why
we create so much content at aqua on every game we list because they need to know uh and have the
context not just on the item but what is this game uh how do i get started what do i do and if you
don't have that information then you're not going to convince someone to actually invest uh and and
try the game and for us investment doesn't mean money investment is time that is the most important
thing for players that's the whole point of this ownership thing is like you know investing your
time is not you know just a waste of time yeah it actually can feel like you're you're contributing
to something or that you're participating in something bigger um and then you kind of are
walking away with something to show later exactly yeah it's uh it's an interesting um world that this is
kind of cascading into but i have people coming to me uh who i haven't talked to in a long time
maybe probably probably because i got into this stuff but they're just like oh you still into
crypto even though the bubble popped and i'm like yeah more than i was then yeah exactly they're like
oh here comes the crypto bro and i'm like yeah calm down i remember 15 years ago i was convincing
brands to start a facebook page and they laughed me out of the room yeah and now they're like well hey
how's our meta ads manager right like so it's constantly a cycle and there's always apprehension
anytime there's a big change uh we know that this is the next big change for gaming but what's at the
forefront is price and it needs to be buried much deeper and in the background because that's not
really the goal the goal is ownership well that's why i think that like i'll just end it here as i gotta
go but uh i think that the first company to come up with a good game that also has a reward for just
showing up that gets people interested and also it's an ease of it's an ease of use right even like
this halluvium thing it's like i had to go connect my wallet i forgot my password and i had to you know
what i mean it's like okay like can we make this simpler like as soon as we figure out these problems
it's over you know it takes one to do well and then everyone's gonna be like oh i i get it or like even
like don't even mention nft like reddit did right like everyone's using profile pictures that are nfts
so it's like you know it just takes a little bit of uh finesse but also delivering an actually
good product and maybe giving a little bit away in hopes that again you don't make money unless you
make it if you if we make it give a value to you to it and then you can sell it and we get a
percentage great but it shouldn't be like fuck man it's like you know 100 plus or even more uh
crazy numbers for just you know oh maybe maybe it'll be fun investments in games like valorant
you know or even e-sports right league is the world's biggest e-sport uh and revenue positive
uh you know that timeline is still coming i can tell you that right now yeah so it's it's a deep
investment but these deep investments build loyalty and emotional bonds with players and that's what
makes retention yeah and the first and the first one of these triple a you know studios to disrupt
their own uh industry is gonna probably be the most successful um but we'll see what happens but
anyways thank you guys appreciate it absolutely thank you guys for having me yeah i love the the
conversation and uh yeah i appreciate you coming up and and uh asking your questions game master
no problem um andrew i see your hand up did you want to comment on uh something that you were
talking about yeah the one thing i wanted to add to is i agree with you that educational content
is absolutely essential so anyone here that's building in web3 gaming or considering it uh this is
our primary strategy at alluvium for content marketing uh we release um alluvium showcase we're like 30
episodes deep it literally just shows the current development and the product live on twitch twitter
and youtube we have tutorials on all of our products that you can go check out i produce simple two
minute explainer videos if you don't have time to do any research that completely condenses an entire
video game and how it connects to other video games into two minutes with pretty graphics and like five
words in the lower thirds and also we release infinity gameplay content uh so you can just see the
product uh because we understand what the hook is the hook with these game web3 games is not ownership
anyone that has like you mentioned obviously nft is bad word and crypto is bad word but if you have
ownership on your website as like a primary uh value that you're marketing um the market is telling us right
now that uh they don't care and so that's not that's not something that should be marketed on the
forefront uh when it comes to web3 gaming marketing it should be about the product it should be about the
game it should be about new inspiring experiences that you can have in these games that are going to
peak your interest and get you excited to sign up and you mentioned a moment ago about barrier to entry
uh yeah you're right alluvium beyond does require a wallet connection because it's just literally a
pfp nft thing but all of our games will be free to play and will not require wallet in fact they will not
uh require anything if you choose uh i just really want to add really quick i'm sorry it's you know it's also
another thing of like why not i don't know it's like why i mean a cool thing to maybe a good angle maybe it's a
let people play it until a certain point and then they can start minting stuff or start making it
you know if you get a max level character oh now you can mint it and you can trade it
you know it's kind of like i don't know why it always has to be like right from the beginning people
have to be like oh gotta connect your wallet it's just like i don't but i also don't know enough to uh
say that's you know what i mean so it doesn't have to be that way and it's and it's not uh it doesn't
have to be that way and it's not right like so across the ages lets you play and then you can opt
into minting later alluvian will let you alluvian will let you play and then you could opt into
minting later uh so that's that already happened so free to play it's already here play now mint
later that's already here giving users a spectrum of how they want to access the games is also uh
part of our plan so for example if you want to go through like a mainstream game launcher you'll have
to provide a certain level of disclosures and privacy to that mainstream game launcher like app
store play store steam epic games launcher whatever it may be then there's like a middle
of the road level of privacy that you could opt into go to alluvian's website for example provide
your email and create like a regular amusing air quotes game account type of thing yep or you can
choose to provide almost no information other than just connect your wallet we don't need to know who
you are we don't need to know your email we don't need to know where you live we don't need you to
sign xyz like the other platforms you could just connect a wallet so web3 unlocks a spectrum of
options that also because i don't think most people understand that that's what wallet connecting is
doing is is freeing them from that privacy disclosure right it's like i don't think people understand
that or why that matters or you know i think that we're not hitting on that enough either i think yeah
i don't think with what we're working on with imx uh in terms of the embedded marketplace but also
our identity layer i think identity is extremely important to players they want to know quirky
things like you died 20 times last week in an undead place you should probably practice more right
yeah what i would caution against is uh sorry we keep stepping on each other because of twitter space
lag i'm sorry about that uh but what i would caution against is is marketing the privacy and the
information aspect uh because users have told us over and over again with their wallets with their
feet with their downloads that they don't care about privacy uh you know look at every time mind
blowing privacy leaks happen in social media it gets covered for a day and then like nobody changes
their behavior so it i think it's like ownership in the space where you will come to expect it once
you're already in here you'll come to expect owning things in video games and being able to sell it
later you'll come to expect having privacy options and being able to choose the spectrum of information
that you can um opt into or not but it certainly is not a hook uh that's going to get people to come
participate uh i think yeah there's various hooks that'll work for different games i i still believe
that the current structure is you know very much focused on collectors and they want to hide in the
shadows and it's one of the things that isn't of importance to them and they'll skip through it and
i agree with you we'll have to adapt it uh and and eventually it'll evolve into a very smooth onboarding right
but you know i would say well while i agree with you that they the the users aren't necessarily voting
for privacy or ownership yet this space does have a background of like caring about values and ethos
and trying to push the envelope forward so while you're right probably if your go-to-market is centered
fully around that you're going to struggle but i think it is important for all of us in this
ecosystem who do understand the value of this stuff to be like good shepherds of the world
and of the gaming industry to teach people why you know privacy does matter the ownership of these
things does matter so it it is important to put that in there absolutely it'll be a balance
yeah solid questions uh game master i believe that was you asking those questions right for the
themes here yeah yeah and i'm i'm for sure stepping away now so thank you guys so much
don't worry a lot no worries good to have uh good interaction with the audience like i i always say
on all these spaces the audience is the most important part well i just feel like i kind of
jump between um you know people who are really into crypto and then i also have a lot of friends
who are content creators and making a lot of content and they just don't see the value in it and
i just you know it's like it's it's kind of like i just kind of bide my time and keep building and
and you know 98 of the world doesn't see the value of bitcoin man so yeah we'll get them so so i'm not
really concerned right now i'm just like i'm gonna build the best thing i can that gives as much value
to people and uh it's gonna have a blockchain aspect to it i hope and because that's what matters to me
and uh but it's gotta be fun at the end of the day it's gotta matter you know it's can't just be
like uh i'm gonna take your money for some false promises for a new kickstarter you know yeah that's
but that's so i hope that everyone's kind of you know on that same uh ethics path this is the fun
part we get to come up with new things new new systems yeah and like i bet you know there's so
many different marketing techniques that people we haven't even thought of yet with this kind of
stuff so and how to give value to people so uh but yeah look forward to all of it and uh just
paying attention but thank you all all right thank you great totally nice icon by the way give uh give
game master a follow for his uh uh great question guys okay it's uh i'm a vtuber i'm a virtual youtuber
you know with an avatar and a face rig and all that so yeah give him a follow hell yeah
yeah thank you guys so much appreciate it thanks for having me guys yeah uh real real quick just i
know we're kind of taking off well we're gonna take a couple more questions from the audience for
whichever speakers want to stick around i think bandy and susie are from the audience
go ahead are you saying something hi yes susie i think you've had your hand up the longest so go
ahead and go ahead and thanks so much i appreciate it i am my name is susay green i'm an entertainer songwriter
writer i've written some hit songs uh michael jackson lots of different people and uh i'm i'm
i'm absolutely flabbergasted by the the place in destiny that everybody's standing i want to
congratulate all of you in your projects and in your your brands and your companies and all the things
that you're doing to move this space and culture if you if you want to deem it that way but i just
want to encourage all of you to please consider that there are underserved communities to access
your games and your projects the disabled community needs access and we must consider it because there
are bright and brilliant minds that want to just have some fun the same way that other people do
so i'm asking you to reach to those areas of what people hear what people can see and what they feel
because we are whether you want to admit it or not i believe we're in one of the most important
creative times in the history of humankind we've got all of the the tools catching up with all of the talent
and great great thinking deep critical thinking about what's next and what's important so i i just
wanted to as i say wish all of you you know brilliant you know digging deep and being innovative it's that
kind of a time there are plenty people who will follow others and who will make things that have been
made before but i want to ask you if you have a talent for critical thinking and for thinking about
the future and what is the future for all of us in all of the fields of entertainment in technology
in our lives you know people play games people can play games for days and we all know that which is why
we sit and try to make games that interest them so um with that said you know there's there's plenty
room and we're at just the tip of it just at the beginning so um please understand your place in destiny
right now it's a time to make new things that have never been seen before and to collaborate with
people who think of the future of all of us and i'm all for having fun well that that's why i was
saying earlier while like you know we're thinking about best go-to-market strategies and how to get
the most signups and and users and profit and all these things which are all very important uh it's
also important that like this space really is a place of values and trying to help the little guy
what i love about crypto that kind of goes to what you're saying is that it's not about handouts
it's about giving people opportunities equal opportunities that might not have those
opportunities otherwise in the previous banking system that was basically like monopolized by
government and bank like partnerships basically so in crypto we're we're able to give people tons
of opportunity there's lots of people in third world countries and and uh underprivileged areas
that are able to make money gaming with games like axi infinity or just in general with with uh
crypto so yeah i i love that susie by the way i checked out your music while you were speaking
uh cool stuff uh you got a bunch of stuff out there i'm actually uh your stuff a little bit reminds me
of um someone i'm gonna see actually tomorrow uh cindy and i are gonna go to uh the baked potato
in los angeles uh legendary jazz club and we're gonna see a maxane lewis uh i don't know if you may know
who she is of course i do she's a boldly talented lady and please say hello to her for me
i will i will she is amazing we got the privilege of uh walking her out to her car at the last time
we saw her it was so cool to talk to her she has so much uh knowledge and she's been you know like
you has has worked with so many crazy talents uh over over the decades thank you for your well
wishes my pleasure take care everybody i gave you a follow susie thank you i appreciate it i'm
going to follow a lot of people here i i'm working in web three i have a a tech startup
that i'm co-founder of and and you know it's it's pretty wonderful to see i work with a lot of
artists i'm an artist myself not just a singer but a painter and and a creator so it's wonderful to see
people doing things that they're passionate about for heaven's sake you know that's that's what i
think we reach for regardless of what kind of work we do you reach for that passion and you know that's
what makes it worthwhile to us it's never about the money it's thankfully about you know you make money
you get you know you get things and you keep living but surely the pandemic has taught us that we don't
know what to expect so i'm just asking you guys to do that mad thing that you have put off you know
it's it's time it's those kind of times and everybody wins from that
i think uh somewhat like the internet but even more powerful because this is actually directly
finance i think web 3 is going to be the greatest thing to lift people out of poverty around the world
uh i think like india is a good example i've been saying for a couple years now maybe three or four
years actually um since i really started digging with polygon and learning and meeting their team
and all the great talent building there that uh like india is this gem this hidden gem that's going to
have a huge growth because they can kind of leapfrog they didn't have a really an industrial revolution
like america or like china in the last couple decades but their revolution is going to be technical
it's going to be building great projects as long as our government doesn't go too harsh on crypto but
uh yeah i think crypto will lift a lot of people in the world out of poverty but great great speaking
to you susie everybody send us susie some flowers with some uh purple hearts thank you so much it's my
pleasure you take care all right we've got uh rock i know we're yeah yeah that's what i'm gonna say i know
we're kind of at the end of the third hour here so appreciate everyone supporting each other following
each other um you know diving into the discords and a deep dive here but yeah maybe do we close
with vandy you know as a last question or what do you want to do rock yeah we'll let vandy ask a
question and if any of the speakers want to say anything to close out uh we'll do that and then
we'll close off we went an hour over time guys i think we had a peak of 450 live listeners and
there'll probably be a lot more than that who tuned in tuned out and and then listen later
but uh this is a great space is everyone thanks to those who stayed so long uh this has been really
informative i i love these deep dives because i'm just i really love uh and i think blockchain gaming
like i said it's going to be one of the things to take us mains tape take crypto mainstream i think
one of the others is going to be derivatives um but uh yeah um it was great to learn so much
about immutable and about their partnership with polygon zkbm tech which we didn't get too deep
into i wish we could have had some time there but uh if you guys want to learn more about that we have
our our all roads lead to polygon spaces every friday which this was not technically an all roads lead
to polygon but it's kind of in the same vein same audience and and uh stuff but uh yeah if you guys
want to learn more about like polygon zkbm and dig deeper into the tech side tomorrow we're doing uh
dows and we'll have the head of dows and community at polygon grendelon and uh zerox justice will be
there as well and we'll get more deep into the the polygon zkbm stuff but love this partnership
it's a beautiful thing for both sides both teams have incredible bd so you're you're combining the
incredible bd of polygon uh and immutable and then the incredible technology of polygon zkbm uh yeah it's a
it's a match made in heaven it's really great for both sides together they're like you know
polygon had like maybe 50 of blockchain gaming or 40 to 60 by different estimates and immutables
like 30 to 40 when you combine them i mean it's over half of the entire industry's blockchain gaming
is on these two chains so when you when you put these forces together i think it's going to be what
i call a decentralized monopoly i think there's going to be a bit of a monopoly but it'll be you
know decentralized and good for the community i've never heard the term decentralized monopoly
until today yeah cool um uh bandy you're up uh you're our last questions for the day thanks uh
to everyone who asked questions and sorry we can't get more on but we got to cut this guy's three hours
we've all got work to do now after the fun
what's up everybody yeah last question no pressure right um my name is uh so my name is vandy i'm just
like a trader uh investor gamer um yeah i've been around since 2017 uh mostly investor trader but it's
nice to meet everybody um so basically my question is kind of a two-parter and they're not super related
but they're both high level so maybe it's just a good one to end on as like a high level overview of
the industry so the first one is i remember in the 2017 bull market the the vc raises for games were
like out of control i mean games were raising money off of a two slide pitch deck and i'm sure everyone
here knows how hard it is to make a game so i'm sure that was like driving a lot of people crazy
people raising millions and then 99 of these games aren't going to work right hundreds of millions
right it was i remember it was crazy i mean it was it was out of control eos raised 2.5 billion and
and was supposed to be the eth killer and then totally failed right right i mean money was just
being thrown everywhere and the funniest thing is in terms of gaming there's really only like one
proof of concept which was like axi infinity which obviously was massive and like entire countries
were were making money literally playing the game so i'm sure vcs were like oh my gosh like we're
onboarding countries into this into this world um but my my question is like what is the current state
of vcs relationship with web3 gaming like obviously it's not the 2017 bull market but like are people
still having success raising money like what's the overall like vibe coming out coming out of that
um at the moment um so that's kind of just like the first question just let's let's want to pause
on that one and we can let the panel speak on that and then we can go to some questions too sounds good
anybody want to take this one i i have some i'll go ahead i'll take i'll i'll jump in here um yeah just
just because i am uh i think one hundred thousand dollars away from finishing a five million dollar
raise for for our company so awesome thanks yeah uh we've been doing um you know we've been uh plugged
in on on the kind of gaming vc side for for quite a long time and uh you know also now you know get
pretty well connected in the in the crypto vc space um it's definitely different times uh and and i'm in a
number of different sort of founders groups with in the portfolio companies we're we're in
with bitcraft and one-up ventures portfolios and some other you know great investors and um yeah you
know it is it is definitely uh tighter out there but it is possible to get something done right like um
uh the thing that's interesting about this you know kind of this time in the market is it does
feel like valuations are sort of back down to kind of what i would have expected in the in the kind
of gaming vc market again this is my this is my second startup so previously had uh built in scale
the company you know about 10 years ago uh and we do see this from time to time right like when i
founded super evil megacorp in 2012 we were kind of in the shadow of the zynga ipo like crash debacle
and so money got really tight you ended up with kind of fewer people building because you know people
weren't getting their series a's they were going out of business um i think there is a lot of
opportunity uh here both you know from you know there's a lot of talent in the market there's a
lot of uh um you know products that are you know potentially acquisition targets right like that that
didn't get their series a series b so i think there are um smart investors that are thinking about how do
you kind of you know build for the long term and kind of find the right teams to to kind of survive the
the winter um but uh but yeah i mean it's definitely like nothing like it was um you know two years
ago and i'll say you know even for you know getting a you know hundred thousand dollar check
two hundred thousand dollar check um you know it can be the dd is like you know it can be pretty
significant um you know with you know a lot of you know deep dive calls and and sort of uh uh you know
just really getting into the weeds on it and i ultimately i think that's good for the ecosystem
right because it's going to make sure that the teams that are here building still building three years
from now aren't the folks that like you know came in and promised an mmo last year with like you know
like never having made a game before right um so it's going to be it's going to be good for the
overall ecosystem and the teams that kind of weather this uh bear market um are going to be in a really
you know i think pretty good position in the uh in the in the coming you know coming bull market
yeah that's such an important thing to say for those builders in the audience who are maybe uncertain
or maybe struggling right now is like i'll give an example so lunar digital assets uh uh are we have
a marketing agency as tick mentioned earlier he's cso um and i'm ceo so we started that in 2017 and um
it's funny in 2018 you know we went right into 2018 bear market and things got really tough but
we found a way to survive and what we noticed is a lot of the the competitive marketing and
incubation firms that we were competing against they all died off and you know it was really hard
for us i worked for a year without any pay and just so the rest of the company could uh have some
kind of uh you know uh pay um and then i worked another six months with half pay and donated the rest to
the team and but like we were able to get through it and then when we got through it it was ridiculous
i mean like fast forward 2020 2021 like in 2021 we had 200 companies come to us for marketing and
incubation uh and we only took three so we're like we we're very like kind of boutique and like to focus
fully and kind of kind of like join the teams that we we work on so i co-founded quick swap which is
one we incubated we incubated polygon etc um but anyways the point is if you're in the market right now
and you're you're on the verge of bankruptcy or not getting funding and all this i i highly encourage
you find a way to survive cut costs do whatever you have to work for free whatever if you got to
dip into maybe some savings i hate to say that but maybe do that because if you're working in the
industry i can assure you on the other side not financial advice it will be nice because all the all
the fakers all the people who weren't truly passionate about it all the money grabbers they're all dying
right now uh and even some good good teams are dying that just didn't manage their finances or
or came in at the wrong time or whatever but uh those who can survive this bear market and and uh
you know uh uh buckle down and just make it through it it's going to be great on the other side i can i
can assure you if you're doing good work and you're you know you're a good company and you and you take
care of your your clients or whatever your your users or whatever work for the always try to work
for the community uh it'll it'll it'll shine on the other side and if i think we're close again not
financial advice i've given us six to 12 months max before we're seeing great times again that's my
personal prediction not financial advice yeah and also you know this i i sorry i i just want to
go ahead double double double that like you know find a way to survive um you know and and and it's
important to realize i think you know i maybe 15 20 years ago i was at another startup and we raised
200 million dollars and um we just got too comfortable right and so the company the teams that are going to
survive are going to be the ones that have urgency um you can kill you can kill a plant by overwatering
it as much as you can kill a plant by starving it so you know i think a lot of these teams that um
for whom the the money came too easy you know aren't going to be thinking about how to build and scale
the business and have the discipline that you need to have uh operationally so um you know yeah build in
hard times now is not a bad time to be starting something uh if you can be you know diligent with your
your your uh your spend yeah this is like um in a military battle it's like winter and you're just
in survival mode and and you're planting your seeds you're getting your strategy ready for when the good
times come when the bull run comes that's what people should be doing right now just survival is
number one and number two is plant as many seeds as you can for the coming bull run and that's exactly
what we did in the last bear market this is my third bear market i've been in since 2015 uh so uh
it's just survival in the bear market and then prepare for the good times in the bull run but
it's not going to come like totally free you got to work hard and you got to prepare and you got to
do good work you know yeah so vandy what's yeah you've definitely you've definitely done some
awesome work rock and um i'm always proud to work with you um i mean you remember when poly when
matic was with crashed under it was under a penny at the lowest it was like 0.008 and you know we had
people calling it a a scam project and all this stuff just because you know the price was down
and that's how people get and then you know we just kept telling everyone like guys when ethereum gas
fees go up again because they will just like they did in 2017 with crypto kitties when the gas fees go
up again this will be our time to shine it with matic and then you know we bended a polygon and uh then
it you know 250 x from there that was that was quite nice right we saw people in the community that
were like the smallest people from like third world countries that like basically became rich uh
you know it's not all about that but you know it was nice to see i i we saw lots of people in
like the quick swap chat when it 2000x and people were like saying how they paid off all their student
loans they paid off their houses it's nice to see that stuff you know this does help the little guy
yeah um vandy i and just to touch on i know you have a second question and we're uh wrapping up but uh
just to touch on that first question i talked with a lot of vcs and a lot of projects come to
lunar digital assets to work with us and we turned down most of them uh and and some of these guys are
all looking for funding right now i'd just to let you know i mean it it is incredibly uh difficult uh
if it more i would say more challenging um and there's a lot of hoops you have to go through
uh but i think product market fit and also just like do you really have a concept that will uh that
people can can get behind that are be excited about just makes the difference uh and also like have you
already started you know some of the the gaming projects that i know friends of mine they've been
building and stealth for two years on you know very small grants grinding by building stuff and there's
they're still getting um you know denied and they have exceptional games in my opinion like
games i play you know so it is challenging right now but i think like as rock was saying if you if
you can stick through maybe figure out how to continue building for now um you know the money's going to be
flowing back very soon and and uh just try to try to find a way to um be be creating something that
that that really is going to matter you know that people can get behind but but yeah it is it is
pretty challenging right now it's just the unfortunate it's the unfortunate nature of
these having cycles that's really what it revolves around right so it's unfortunate this is how it is
it won't always be like this eventually it'll smooth out uh you know we had in the in the dot-com
bubble i was already starting to work in the internet uh around 1999 and uh you know after the internet
crash you couldn't do any fundraising or anything but the internet ended up you know the companies
that survived those times are the biggest companies in the world now so uh i i believe
that's where we're going uh okay last question bandy and we'll cut it off the audience is dwindling
guys i think uh we've been on for almost three and a half hours now uh and most of the main speakers
are gone so bandy last question uh and uh and then we'll call it guys thanks everyone who stayed so
long hey good stuff guys that's just a lot of good info um really appreciate it so yeah last question
and then everyone can get out of here so so i kind of jumped on late so maybe this is kind of a big
topic in terms of web through gaming so maybe you touched on it if you did you can just give a short
answer that's fine but so when i think about onboarding into web 3 gaming i think mostly about
people who aren't crypto native because people who are crypto native i have no doubt that once these
games are ready once the foundation is laid there to jump right in but for the people who aren't in
web 3 right now so i feel like there are so many barriers to entry um like i see just the whole
branding of of nfts and web through gaming like you know i've been in gaming discords where if you just
bring up nfts gaming it's like you're i mean like you're like a nazi like you're a scammer it's it's
crazy the hive mind around it right now yeah it's it's really is nuts i mean it's it's but the
unfortunate thing is it's not just gaming think about what if you like half the time when i tell
people about like hey so do you hear about bitcoin you know about bitcoin when i'm talking to uber
drivers etc a lot of them like oh no no no no no no i that isn't i thought that died you know so
look this is how it is dude you go look at old internet clips of people talking about the internet
and these were like smart people on like smart news channels if anyone's ever seen these clips
and they're like come on this is a internet's just a fad you had like some of the top people
you know businesses in the world where we're saying that it was dude i think microsoft i think bill
gates maybe or someone from microsoft came out and said they i think it was bill gates that said he
thought the internet was just a fad i could be putting words in his mouth it was someone from microsoft
but anyway so um right right yeah we are we are just so early so i guess just like
my overall question is what are the high level barriers of entry from onboarding
those type of people into web3 gaming
build on immutable that solves a lot of a lot of things for immutable passports uh solve some great
stuff in terms of uh just making it easy and transparent um uh yeah like i i i think i think
a lot of the things a lot of things that people are kind of seeing and react or like the problems that
we people have experienced are not necessarily endemic to the technology they're really the result of um
kind of early projects right like early projects don't yet have the infrastructure um and you know
aren't investing you know huge sums of money uh generally into into kind of the early user
experience because you know they're they're trying to you know proof of concept right and so i think
the market right you know the gamers the all these folks are you know always reacting to what they've
seen before which you know makes sense because you know they're not paid to predict the future the
way that you know maybe some of us are um but ultimately like you know as we knock down these problems
one at a time they're going to be gone forever um and i think you know i i think there are a lot
of smart people building to to reduce these barriers to entry so even the aqua folks talking
about it today on the call like i think there are you know a lot of a lot of people like looking at
how do we how do we solve this how do we make this frictionless um and you know it's certainly
something that we aim for as a north star at shardbound all right hey guys we got we're going to
squeeze one more question in from the audience uh we have snowflake solidity apecoin dow council
member game web 3 and game dev strategies and designer um looks like you might have some insight
so we'll do one more quick question then we're out of here guys thank you so much yeah um happy to see
you again um i was thinking like what is the major confusion about web free gaming is it the name is it
confusion about how it works like what actually is happening and even like when people trying to
develop web free style gaming 2.5 like what confusion barriers do they see when they're trying to get
funding uh at least on on the last part of that question i can say one of the the largest challenges
is being able to communicate properly with uh a bc to let them know why you know first of all you're
here for the long term why uh you're going to succeed and communicate like what you're building
them that it seems to be a a pretty big issue what i what i see because like sometimes you have really
development heavy teams or guys that are focused on the lore and the art and the you know the development
of the game but then you have to be able to speak to the investors that like really like yeah it's
kind of funny if i could jump real quick it's funny you know some of the people we're doing our due
diligence on uh like when we're considering projects we may market for incubate and we're we're helping
assist them in like you know what they're supposed to say to you know investors and how they should
approach it because sometimes we get them on a call you know or with ourselves or investors and they get
real like in the weeds and geeky and nerdy and like they're so passionate and it's really cool for us
to see but like vcs might not you know they speak a different language so you gotta kind of explain to
them why this makes sense what your business model is why this is going to be a good investment for
them etc because it's a little bit of a different audience than like you know when you're pitching to
your gamer or when you're pitching to your web3 developers or etc yep totally so yeah and i think uh
i think you said this but um whoever said that you know build on immutable build on polygon like you
you can't go wrong there because whatever hurdles you do run into if you can prove to these major
ecosystems that uh you're valuable you're actually joining a force of a community and um you know people
that can fill in maybe where you your weak spots are and and you can really overcome uh a lot of
obstacles you'll run into so i'd say you know just start with um communication you know obviously if
you're trying to get funding figure out how to you know either hire a firm or you know figure out how to
communicate to these investors and then uh yeah and then definitely join forces with people do the
business development you know make friendships relationships get out there and and um build
your community you know grassroots is it's such a strong way to do it and communities first that's
like that that really should be your focus for in crypto in gaming communities are everything i i
really can't stress that enough that's why matic survived the last bear market and why they were
able to thrive polygon uh and immutable i didn't know immutable was around in 2017 but that's that's
cool to learn but uh you know that's how the polygon survived it was purely on the will of the community
because there were there were true believers even when a lot of them left when the prices were low a
lot a lot believed in it and stuck around believed in the team division that was us but yeah rock i
actually have to shoot uh you know we've we've been here for a while and um and it's been an amazing
conversation allay guard bound immutable and you know everyone that's really asked all their their
amazing questions i just appreciate all of you guys um but i know i have to shoot i'm not sure if we
want to close it up yeah we're good let's let's call it there i think it's a good time
that was thank you for having me guys this was a really fun spaces guys i i had a great time with
all you and thanks for the question snowflake and thanks alay and thanks uh who's who's on the immutable
handle i don't know if you spoke oh this is kenny okay well thank you kenny thank you guys for
having us it was a lot of fun thank you yep shard bounce suze uh across the ages etc you can check
the uh real quick if you want to click on the jumbotron to explore these projects some more we're
about to close the space so you'll lose that soon but uh thanks everyone check out uh immutable and zkbm
with that amazing partnership oh by the way quick swap we'll be doing something with immutable uh their
blockchain in the future we'll release news on that at some point see you guys awesome guys thanks
Speaker
Immutable
from
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