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Industry Hour - BTC ATHs & WLFI
Recorded: July 24, 2025 Duration: 1:12:10Space Recording
Short Summary
The crypto landscape is evolving rapidly with significant partnerships and token launches, such as the Volta Network's collaboration with WLFI to deploy a new stablecoin. As banks explore creating their own digital currencies, the accessibility of crypto is set to increase, potentially leading to greater adoption and innovative yield opportunities for users.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Oh, loud and clear.
Good morning, sir.
Can you hear me?
GM, GM.
This is a new pair of headphones. Do they sound okay?
Yeah, you sound great. Sounds like you're right next to me.
Perfect. Yeah, I had real nice headphones and I lost one of them like a week ago. It was the worst.
I was walking down the street and it fell out in my ear and it it bounced in slow motion like six times before going down a water drain.
It sucked.
No, like out of the movies.
Yeah, dude.
It's just a pair of headphones, but they're nice ones.
I've had them for a while.
But, yeah.
I was real nervous.
This is my first space with these ones.
Anyway. file but yeah i was real nervous this is my first space with these ones so anyway let's see who we got here i am just in the process of sending out um some dms yeah i apologize for lock in advance um i don't follow you lock what am i doing over here
I don't follow you, Locke.
What am I doing over here?
I don't know, man.
I fixed it.
I fixed it.
Hopefully we can get everybody else to fix that too.
I'm attempting to get up here.
I'll just keep some small talk going while we're waiting.
Isn't crypto funny?
Where today,
like who else kind of is looking at like,
I don't know,
the coin market cap and like this whole market,
like you feel bad,
like because things were so good for a couple of days straight going up every
single morning,
you'd wake up.
And then even though it's like incredibly higher than it's been months,
it's like so close to the ultimate Bitcoin,
but yet you feel like bad because you're like,
ah, it was 120, not only 118.
Like I'll kind of take a little bit, but that's crypto.
It's always funny because like when Bitcoin hits a new all time high,
everyone's all excited.
And then it drops, let's say it dropped to 110 K.
But like two months ago,
you would have been incredibly excited if it
hit 110k again at all but now because it went higher you get like depressed and feel like
you're losing whenever it does stuff like that and it's it's just funny because i always get
emotional too and i i know like it's a habit and it's just funny because i don't think
it's necessarily like that in like traditional finance, but also traditional finance isn't nearly as,
as volatile.
Yeah,
dude.
I think like when,
we get these,
the swings are so big and it's like,
dude,
when it goes up,
you're like,
here we go.
We're going straight to the moon.
And then when it goes down a little bit,
you're like,
the end,
the end is near.
And because like, I don don't know i don't trade
that much i hold most of my stuff so it's like it's always like you know you don't lock in gains
you don't lock in losses it's just you feel like you have all this money that you didn't act you
don't actually have unless you sell and most of us probably don't sell yeah sometimes i try to like
my strategy is like when it goes up I look at my
portfolio and when I see it starting to go down I'm like I think we're gonna
take a little break for for the day or two the most extreme was um when Luna
and UST kind of did its crazy-ass run and everyone not everyone but a lot of
people that I know did really well with it and
Whenever it all blew up on them. They're like I lost millions of dollars. I was like, what did you actually invest though? Oh
Like 10,000 like I mean, it feels like you lost you you did cuz you didn't sell but
It was like money never had
But it still feels terrible
It feels just like some story out of your pocket i mean
but it's serious if if that's the mentality uh elon is broke because he hasn't sold stock right
it's the same idea you can still have wealth without selling in my mind i mean ideally people
are learning to not sell um especially bitcoin, and are taking loans out with it.
Because nobody needs to be paying 40% on their money.
That's actually a good talking point.
I mean, the topic is Bitcoin, all-time highs, but just Bitcoin in general.
It's kind of like this is something like collateralizing Bitcoin and other like highly liquid crypto assets.
It's really normal for all of us because you could always do it through exchanges.
You could, for example, you could deposit Bitcoin or any token or any highly liquid token into an exchange on margin, generate USDT against it.
And you could always like withdraw that USDT and spend it on whatever you want.
It's just like mortgaging your Bitcoin.
And then there's also different lending platforms that have existed for several years. We could do
the exact same thing. But very recently, only within the last year, we're starting to see
conversations and even announcements from actual banks where they're going to start taking into
account crypto assets and allowing you to borrow against them. Because it just makes sense. They're
liquid. As long as you have a liquid asset that there's like, it just makes sense. They're liquid.
Like as long as you have a liquid asset that there's an open market for and it could be
sold into, it's actually better than borrowing against the house.
Like taking all the loan against the house or mortgage against the house is completely
normal, but a house isn't even liquid.
Like if you needed to actually like sell it, it would take a long time to do so.
Whereas with Bitcoin in that situation
if your bitcoin's the collateral instead of a house it can be sold in a second with no slippage
it's a pristine collateral it's the way to do it man i'm 100 with you but like
yes that was a segue i worked that in you don't gotta let everybody know that i'm you know
quietly um setting us up to have this conversation like it's just what we do
i saw let me start out i mean i mean fully uh pnc bank pnc banks like my it's more national now but
it's uh it was began locally here in pennsylvania i saw yesterday they announced something with
coinbase but i forget what it was dude Dude, I think there was some recent...
Well, I mean, we just had the legislation with the Genius Act,
but I think I saw something, too, about how banks will start considering crypto assets
in terms of getting approved for a mortgage.
Yeah, and that's huge.
So I bought my house 2018. So it was kind of like,
midst of like the ICO run. And at the time, most of my money was tied up in crypto.
And I wasn't able to use any of it, like to get the bank approved. I was still able to get approved and everything, but maybe I would have gotten a better rate.
Maybe it would have been more advantageous at the time.
They could have taken that into account.
But now that's the new thing.
What I'm seeing in the news is they will take into account Bitcoin.
It's just like having any piece of property, any stock,
any real estate, or I said property, but any traditional asset, it's always taken into account
whenever you're taking out loans and you could get bigger lines of credit and things like that.
So there's probably a lot of people that are just people who just hold the majority of their
wealth in crypto and they always have, they don't hold traditional assets and they were kind of at a disadvantage with traditional banks if they ever needed to
take out a loan because even though they have a totally liquid asset a lot of it potentially
they according to the bank they're broke when clearly they're not broke they could be crypto
rich yeah yeah i'm so broke i'm so broke and you bring up a good point zach i will encourage anybody to
take not a house loan like it doesn't matter if people accept the the crypto or not especially
if you're going with a smaller lender like just do it man like the the house that i'm in right now
um i bought this one in 2019 and i definitely had six figures uh sitting in an exchange at that time.
And, you know, the loan officer was like, oh, do you have any more, you know, savings or anything like that?
I was like, yeah, it's in stables and I'm earning yield on it.
And he's like, well, what does that mean?
I was like, well, whoever your boss is, ask him.
And if he doesn't know, I'm going to go with a new lender.
And I literally just, you know, sent out the screenshots of my phone of like, hey, this is where the money is. This is what's going on. And they, they took it.
I mean, I, I have a, what is it? 2.8% rate on my house.
So like it worked, it worked. So I'm never,
never going to redo that loan.
going to redo that loan ever again.
I'm in the same boat.
I'm in the same boat, man.
I refinanced during COVID.
I'm just rock bottom loan.
If I sold my house and bought the house across the street
for the same price that I sold my house for,
my mortgage payments would probably double
because of the interest rate.
Yeah, I mean, that's such a huge thing.
Right now, one of my properties that I'm renting out, I'm literally making money simply because of that interest rate yeah i mean that's such a huge thing like right now i have like one of my
properties that i'm renting out i'm literally making money simply because of that interest
rate you're dead on um and people need to kind of think about that like rates actually go a long
way especially if you're talking about long-term loans um you're you can be paying a lot a lot of
money if you're not uh leveraging all your assets to say hey you should be able to give me
a lower rate i am reliable i do have the money it's here it's ready to go so yeah i think i think
people are definitely leaving a lot of money on the table by not leveraging their crypto assets
evan you're up here yet yeah i'm up welcome so what's up that's the thing what's up? That's the thing that's kind of... What's up, Evan?
Hey, what's going on, guys?
You know, I think just like we saw FTX 2.0, the reboot, the revival of FTX, who knows
how it's doing now, but anyways, a lot of people got their money back.
Exchanges doors are back open.
I think we need to see a Celsius 2.0 with Bitcoin-backed mortgage loans.
Alex is in jail, isn't he?
Alex Machinsky.
But I guess so is Sam.
So is SBF.
Yeah. It's funny, man,
because I worked in 2017
and they're all doing their ICOs. I worked with all these
fucking criminals because I was
working for an ICO marketing company.
To be fair, the guy that was trying to hunt down mishinsky uh ben uh he's also in jail so i think there's a trend here
who else is it uh um what the fuck is his name bitcoin jesus he was in jail
i keep telling people this there are a few, like few minor requirements for projects in the space.
Like, yeah, making money is great, but at the top of the list should always be staying out of jail.
And people seem to forget that.
Yep.
I'm going to assume you said staying out of jail.
That's exactly what I said.
I feel like that should be the top of everybody's list, staying out of jail. That's exactly what I said. I feel like that should be the top of everybody's list, staying out of jail.
Yeah.
I think that part of
the problem was up until
very recently, especially in the United
States, there just wasn't really
a regulatory framework
to work within, so you didn't really know the rules.
It was regulation by enforcement, but
at the same time, the things like
Celsius was doing and some other
definitely ftx like it's clearly illegal like there was no like gray area or confusion on what
they were doing but at the same time there's probably people that wanted to uh be following
the law that may have been breaking the law just because the law wasn't clearly defined
well let's talk about that because zach, you are with Volta, right?
This is where you drop your title and what you do over there.
Yeah, so I'm one of the co-founders of the foundation, CCO of the Volta Foundation.
Volta Network, we just rebranded from EOS very recently, a couple of months ago, Web3 Banking focused on kind of being the
infrastructure rails for digital banks. Yesterday, so we just had big news yesterday. We announced
partnership with WLFI, World Liberty Financial, associated with the Trump family. They also have
the USD1 stable coin, which kind of ties into the Genius Act, which is a big policy that just passed last week.
Hugely beneficial. It is one of those regulatory frameworks like I was just talking about.
Like Tether, for example, has always been kind of looked at in this gray area, kind of like you want to believe that they're doing everything legal, but there's never like clear audits for a long time.
want to believe that they're doing everything legal, but there was never like clear audits
for a long time. They weren't always backed by actual treasury notes or dollars for a little
bit of time. They actually had a gap in their balance sheet and they held some like non-liquid
private equity and things like that. So what the Genius Act does is it created a regulatory
framework for stable coins in the United States. And it kind of created all
of the list of requirements to keep everything above board. And one of them is being 100% backed
by like treasury notes and actual dollars, which is how Tether is now, but it's not how Tether was.
But then also the transparency and the regulatory agencies having access to audits, these stablecoin companies.
So it's huge. You can see it in the market reaction to it. I do think that these recent
regulations do have something to do with the recent Bitcoin rise, even though Bitcoin is not
a stablecoin. But what stablecoins do is the more accessible and the more above board and the more accepted
that stable coins are, especially in the United States, the more liquidity is being able to be
driven into the market. And the more liquidity that's being able to be driven into the market
means more buying power for Bitcoin and all of the other crypto assets. So just to reel it back to the partnership WLFI, they announced. So it's kind
of weird because about two months ago, there was on-chain transactions that got kind of
leaked because people just, they have public wallets on Binance Smart Chain, for example.
So anytime they buy any assets, it's pretty much out in the open. And people noticed that they bought $3 million of wrapped EOS from Binance Smart Chain,
and then $3 million off of OneDex on Volta.
So everyone kind of knew that they invested, they bought into these $6 million of Volta or EOS tokens.
The only reason it's EOS on Binance is just because it's a wrapped version.
They're in the process of doing a swap, but $6 million.
The news was kind of out there, but nobody knew what it was about beyond them buying tokens.
So yesterday, the announcement came out of the partnership.
They'll be deploying the USD1 stablecoin onto Volta.
So we're really excited about that, having a new native stablecoin coming to the chain, and also just the partnership in general
with WLFI, obviously being close to the administration's advantageous, especially if
you're targeting a regulated sector like banking, and just knowing the momentum that they have. So
the WLFI token, they did a token sale over the last year, They raised, I believe, $590 million in their token raise.
They did a pre-sale for one and a half cents and then an open sale for five cents.
So once they be tradable, which they'll be tradable within six to eight weeks,
there's predictions of them having up to the number 11 market cap.
I don't know if the number's in front of me.
It really depends what it opens trading at,
but it's going to be a huge project.
We saw what, even though it's completely different
because it's a meme coin,
we saw what happened with the Trump meme coin
whenever it first launched.
So I'm kind of expecting the same with WLFI.
Obviously, the market's going to do what the market does.
WLFI is more of like a DeFi type treasury management token, governance token.
But the better that token does, the more capital that the project has to keep making investments.
So they've been continuously making investments across the crypto sector.
So the $6 million into Volta is just one of them.
They've made much larger investments into other projects.
So just knowing that we're in their portfolio is good because we know they're watching.
We know they like what we're doing.
And the better that they do and the better that we do in parallel, it could hopefully lead to bigger and better things.
And also, you know, just getting their stable coin, which is going to be continuously growing.
And it's in a good, solid regulatory environment in the United States now with the Genius Act.
I love when you go off like that, Zach.
That was a lot of info, and I kind of feel a little dumb, not going to lie.
I completely forgot to reach out to some of the people that I know at WLFI.
WLFI, I should have had him in here with us.
I should have had them in here with us.
But let me ask a little bit more in regards to that,
because, I mean, you're seeing a lot of people actually adopt this,
you know, Bitcoin strategy.
Are there, like, new operational frameworks coming out of this?
Just because I think people are trying to put this stuff on their balance sheets, right?
I mean, Bitcoin especially.
So we're starting to see other tokens so one of the later
like not latest but one of the trends that we're seeing is like these crypto projects trying to
like align themselves with like i don't want to call them shell companies but like
publicly traded companies um it's not really an espac. I don't think it has a name, but Tron has probably been doing its most publicly so far where they're trying to do some kind of public offering that creates a new company that becomes or merges with an existing company where they basically become a holding company for whatever token it is. And then it allows, you know, the traditional finance market to invest in the stock
and the stock, uh, basically like the company's thesis is very similar to what you see with
micro strategy is they just keep investing and buying into a, whatever crypto token that,
that they're associated with. So I know there's been some news about Tron doing it. Um, I think
about a week ago, maybe two weeks weeks ago there was something with dogecoin
i haven't been following it that closely to be able to speak too much on it but i think that
was one of the things that led to a recent rally in doge was there was a company that got uh
approved for something maybe announced something that they're going to be a holding company for
for doge so it'll give access to you know like traditional markets that may not have access to
direct crypto investments but they can invest through like ETFs and holding companies similar to MicroStrategy,
but for other tokens.
So that's something that all crypto projects are looking into.
There's definitely been some things that we've come across.
It's definitely an option.
It's not necessarily easy to execute on, but it is possible.
It's just one of many options.
And I think pretty much if you could talk to any project right now,
I think almost all of them would be lying if they said they weren't like
looking into it, whether or not they could execute on it,
whether or not it will happen.
I can't really say,
but everyone's looking into it because that is the current trend.
It can't be easy.
If it was easy, everybody would do it. I think that think that the way that's going about it like it is actually good
and you're talking about bit origin they're looking to raise 500 million by the way the
announcement came out about a week ago but uh evan i'm gonna shut up and let you speak because i
think you've been muted like three times yeah sure yeah i was just gonna say i mean we're kind of
seeing the micro strategies playbook happen across the board.
Zach, like you were saying, I mean, Sharplink Gaming just raised, at least they announced that they were raising a billion dollars to buy Ethereum.
Right. And it's like these companies, you know, just show investment companies, it's almost like mirroring, you know, on-chain into traditional
markets.
Yeah, I think there just needs to be an appetite for it.
So that's why I said, like, not every project could do it.
Like, Dogecoin's just been, it's a legacy coin, probably some mega whale backers who
have made a lot of money on it.
And just, there's, you need to have a certain level of adoption ethereum's
obviously grandfathered project that's been around forever i don't think anyone could do it like a
top 200 project like a 200 ranked project with a i don't know 50 million dollar i don't know what
the market cap would be 50 million dollar market cap they're not going to be able to pull this off
there's not enough demand for it's not known enough but i think for uh most projects i don't know where the cutoff would be, maybe top 100, something like that. I think there's a possibility for all of them, but there has to be that institutional demand. There has to be some kind of demand in the background driving this or else it just costs a lot because they're working within that regulatory environment for a public offering.
for a public offering, there's a lot of red tape and just record,
I don't know if the record keeping is a big cost,
but just filing for an IPO or SPAC,
the filing costs are typically very long and expensive.
Yeah, I mean, there's also something to be said about the publicity factor too.
I mean, if you look at the MicroStrategies playbook,
I mean, people have,
you know,
major news outlets have been talking about Michael Saylor and micro strategies constantly for the last four years.
Right.
You know,
and that's purely for his diamond balls.
He was buying Bitcoin last all time.
He was buying all along the bear market.
And now,
you know,
he gets to reap those
rewards i think a lot of people are looking at that and seeing the notoriety that microstrategy
got that mike saylor got in all of his uh keynotes and stuff and all his podcasts and interviews he's
saying like i am open sourcing my strategy you're seeing that it works and he's talking about it
specifically for bitcoin but there's nothing that would really stop another highly liquid, high market cap, high demand project from doing it.
I don't know if it'd be possible to see the same level of success and dollar amounts as micro strategies, because comparatively, the Bitcoin market cap is way bigger than everything combined.
But at the same time, the bigger the Bitcoin market cap, the harder it is to like,
push it up or down in market volatility. So any projects, literally any project that's not Bitcoin,
the demand that you could drive doing anything even close to what Saylor's doing would probably
move the market cap a lot more than Saylor's able to move the market cap of Bitcoin. I think micro strategy alone has been a big reason why there hasn't been,
you know,
the 50% drawdowns of the cycle that we've been used to from every cycle
previously, but they alone, even as much as they've been buying,
they've been able to like dull some of the volatility and also probably keep
the price floor up. But it's, it's still as big as they are.
They're still small, small ish fish because the Bitcoin pond is just incredibly big.
But for an altcoin, I think that if anyone can even generate, you know,
a tenth or a twentieth of the capital that Saylor's been able to generate in the interest,
it could mean like really good things for the market cap of those projects.
And obviously, when we started this whole conversation about collateralizing crypto
assets and being able to borrow against them that's huge you have all these like institutions
and hedge funds that are holding crypto right now not just bitcoin but all kinds of crypto assets
they are a lot of like companies like that they borrow against their book value of their assets
the higher the book value of their assets the the more they're able to borrow, the more they're able to invest.
So it only makes sense that they want the value and the market cap of the assets that they hold to go up.
So if there's opportunities to do so by creating these companies and getting listed on public markets
and getting micro strategy like companies behind them,
then it's just basically creating liquidity.
I don't want to say out of thin air because it's how markets work,
but they're able to create liquidity.
It's exactly what they're doing.
They're creating access to liquidity.
And in parallel, we're seeing like Trump
wants the interest rates to go down.
He's pressuring Jerome Powell.
So like we're in a perfect environment right now where where access
to capital becomes easier and access to capital becomes cheaper that's whenever the markets uh
traditionally gone pretty uh crazy so who stands to benefit the most here because I mean the genius
act definitely helped um you know bring some clarity to this whole thing but like what sectors
essentially in protocols do you think you're gonna to really reap the rewards of this thing going through?
Everybody. I mean, liquidity, liquidity, liquidity, liquidity. I think we're going to see
every bank in the United States is probably going to want to create their own stable coins,
and they're going to promote their stable coins. So the other, the other thing that benefits is it kind of puts a stop to the fear of these CBDCs for, for like government backed
digital dollars. It privatized it. That's huge because rather than having one government controlling
a digital stable coin, you have the whole private market of the U S banking sector with the ability
to create all of their stable coins or just align with existing stable coins like like usdc or something it's huge and think about it um every bank has like digital
banking every bank has really good apps right now i for every bank account and every credit card i
have i have a different app on my phone but i i can't withdraw from my bank account to a stable
coin like that's what we're going to see as this becomes more adopted.
Everyone with a savings account and everyone with a bank account,
everyone with a credit card with any U S bank is going to be able to just
very easily swap into a digital dollar.
And then once you have that digital dollar,
maybe even within your banking interface,
you'll be able to buy into a crypto asset and not have to send it to Coinbase
to buy into a crypto asset and not have to send it to coinbase to do it that's huge
to do it.
That's huge.
i think it'll be kind of interesting to see how you know maybe this like micro economy of you know
hundreds if not thousands of proprietary stable coins would play out right i mean there's already
quite a few in the mix on chain but you know if
all these banks are kind of deploying their own stable coins to be able to make those on chain
transfers you know and kind of act as that bridge with their existing banking clients you know I
wonder if we'll kind of start to see an emergence of almost like aggregate stable coins right like
if you look at DAI you know I don't I don't know if anyone uses DAI anymore,
but, you know, they had holdings and I think it was like some e-gold,
some UCC, you know, kind of like a diversified holding.
I think that's exactly what we're going to see.
So the motivation, so diluting the market with stable coins as an end user kind of sucks.
Cause like,
let's say PNC bank has a stable coin or bank of America is a stable coin.
If I,
if there's no trading pairs against like Bitcoin or Ethereum or Volta or
Solana,
if there's no trading person,
what the hell is the utility of that token?
Like what's the point?
So like the more variety of stable coins you have like look at most exchanges like some of them don't even have usdc trading pairs they're all usdt or some of them are only usdc um so if there's
no trading pairs it doesn't have a whole lot of utility so but the motivation for the banks to
have their own stable coin is because they're incredibly profitable businesses. Basically, Tether is one of the most profitable companies in the world. If Tether was a publicly
traded company, and Paolo, the CEO has said this, it would probably be one of the largest
market caps of a publicly traded company in the world because their business and operational costs
are so low, they don't have a lot of staff. Literally, all they do is they deposit. So someone deposits dollars, sends dollars to them. They send that user a
digital dollar, that digital dollar that they get when you hold Tether, you're not getting any
interest on that. You could plug it into a DeFi protocol and get interest that way or CEX strategy
profits. But in the background, what Tether's doing is they're taking your dollar
in their bank account and they're buying treasury notes and getting three, four,
5% interest on those dollars. They're getting that interest doing absolutely nothing. All it's
doing is sitting in the bank and they gave you a digital token that represents that dollar and
that every digital dollar is redeemable for real dollars. So every
bank wants to get in on the business because basically it just creates a bunch of deposits
that they could generate income on. They're generating, like I said, 3%, 4%, 5% interest
on every dollar that's digitized in their stable coins. So that's their motivation. That's why
the value of Circle is going crazy right now because they IPO'd recently and everyone's seeing the value of it.
And the regulatory environment is like perfect for them.
It's just such a no brainer business.
But I think what we'll see is so we won't see something like DAI, because what I what I failed to mention when I was describing the genius act before is they put like maybe it doesn't include.
Yeah, they specifically do not want to support algorithmic
stable coins so i don't think dai is as much algorithmic because it's collateral back that's
actually over collateralized so i actually am not clear on if the genius act uh mentioned anything
about that but what it was but the genius act was opposed to is algorithmic so algorithmic would be
more like what UST was.
And there's some other ones.
I'm not as familiar with them.
But I think what we'll probably see is something like Curve. So CurveFi is just a stablecoin, a stablecoin swap pool on Ethereum.
And it's very low slippage.
And you see these pools that have multiple stablecoins in them.
So you might have a pool that's like 50% USDC, 50% Tether,
where it could have some third stable coin in there.
And it creates liquidity between all of the stable coins
because they should all be $1 each.
So you should be able to trade between them and be liquid between them.
So I think what we'll see is liquidity pools like that.
And maybe the LP token itself will be a highly adopted tradable
token so let's say i have my we're all banks here i have i have a stable coin i've got the zach
stable coin from the bank of zach action has his own stable coin evan has his own stable coin we
if there's a liquidity pool between them on something like curve or maybe like a regulated
version of that we basically all these stable coins together.
We're all happy because we're all banks generating interest
on these treasury notes in the background.
But then as far as like end users and trading pairs on exchanges,
they're all using the LP token of all of that,
which is basically just an aggregate of our three stable coins
because we're collaborating with each other.
And we're adding the liquidity pool.
There's a reason why they call it making bank, right?
They know how to make money.
So am I going to trade my .00013 of my LP token for $100 in Bitcoin?
If you want.
I mean, I don't know yeah i mean also the banks themselves like i said there's no trading pairs but the banks themselves have liquidity like so i i keep bringing up pnc because
it's just in my head it's my local bank i've been banking with mine since i was a teenager
so the headline is pnc taps coinbase to create crypto trading offering for bank customers.
So just like I said, within the banking app, they're going to have the ability to buy crypto.
So if the bank is basically running a white-labeled version of the Coinbase engine within their app,
even though if you go to Coinbase directly, all trading pairs are against like USDC or sometimes I think they just have USD which is
basically just it's backed by all of their stablecoin holdings I think
within the banking app itself like it'd be very possible that PNC Bank had
their own stablecoin you would just see like Bitcoin USD trading pair but then
in the background it's actually using the PNC dollars but
you never then user never sees it like it's just digital dollars moving around so like that that's
another possibility it's just all abstracted from the user the unuser all they care about like if
you've been doing online banking it already like there's really no difference of what you've been
already doing as far as the banks are concerned. Whenever you deposit a dollar into the bank, into your savings or checking account,
they're already generating either treasury notes against or loaning it out to someone else and making money off of it.
This is nothing new for a bank.
The only new thing is that they're going to have the ability and the appetite to give you a digital token in exchange.
Instead of you having to look at your checking account balance, you'll look look at a digital wallet balance and then that token will be kind of borderless
and transferable and you could use it uh on different blockchains that's really the only
difference but as far as like the the revenue generation and the background it's not a new
business for a bank they've been this is how banks work they they make money off of your money it's
no different they just created a new line of business with digital dollars i mean my hope here is that it does change a little bit in the sense
of uh two things mainly a transparency so that people can actually see what's happening and
actually do queries uh because right now everything's this big old black box right nobody knows
if assets where assets are and what's backing those assets if we have a little bit more
transparency i'd feel a whole lot better um and secondly just the the ability to actually hold
the assets yourself right i know that that's not going to be the case for everyone but uh having
the ability to have those you know tokens or whatever it is actually be yours
it's kind of a big deal because just try going to a bank right now and saying i i need you know
say i need 50k in cash um they're gonna laugh at you plus you're gonna ask a million questions what
you need the money for like that piece to me is huge. Having the ability to actually do with my funds as I please is kind of a bare minimum requirement,
which is why a lot of my funds aren't stuck with a third party.
It's scary to think about that they control it.
I'd be very careful with that assessment of what this means.
Stable coins are not Bitcoin.
When you described 100% the case of Bitcoin,
but as long as you're not doing anything illegal, let me state that.
You're not a terrorist and you're not doing anything really illegal or shady.
But there's a long history of Tether freezing accounts
because the account is associated with North Korea terrorism.
So there are backdoors in the smart contract
that can freeze your assets with a stablecoin.
But what you said is accurate with Bitcoin.
If you're not doing anything,
most crimes are so low level
that Tether's not going to freeze your assets.
But if you're a terrorist organization or doing
something really shady uh then they could still do that it's not trustless all right you know what
i'll make the public public service announcement here please don't do anything illegal guys i'm
talking about stuff that you actually own that's actually yours having the power to actually move
things around that you've earned uh. And being able to transact internationally
without having to wait three to five days
for banks to settle.
Like I'd be able to just do as we,
like it's normal to us to be able to do that
with like any stable coin that already exists.
But for a regular bank user,
like if I only had a bank account,
normal fiat,
and I wanted to send money to someone in like Spain,
it would take a couple of days to
do that and that's just even if it's a bank wire it's normal for most people so the they have the
ability to send like uh digital dollars to anyone you want without having to ask permission without
having to give up their identity to uh your bank for example that's something that could be new for for those people well just like with this newfound kind of bank onboarding and you know it seems like a lot of
new people are going to be coming on chain i mean pretty much the masses right i'm not
convinced personally that the current on chain operating system you could even say, is going to be viable for the general public.
You know, I mean, there's so many nuances that you really have to learn about.
Otherwise, you are going to make some very expensive mistakes, not just from a trading sense, but I even myself right i mean i've you know been in the defi trenches for
the last five six years and there's even then been a handful of times where i've sent a significant
sum of money on the wrong chain and totally just burnt money right you know it's really easy to make
accidental silly mistakes um and i think that you know if we do get this activation of
really like the masses coming on chain at scale through these you know proprietary bank stable
coins um so on so forth you know like the defy ecosystem and the whole on-chain system is really
kind of um segmented and that's not necessarily an issue but when it becomes an issue
is when the segmentation can lead you to you know losing your funds right so i think
you're an advanced user you're using metamask you're you're making those transfers yourself
i think like the future and already is here is abstracting all of that. Like I said, for a lot
of people, they'll just be using their digital dollars within their banking app. So you basically
generate stable coins from your checking account or whatever. So it just looks like a transfer from
one account to the other, but one's a digital wallet. And then ideally, there's just a couple
of buttons. The bank might might wait list it might wait
listen d5 strategies but maybe like you have different interest rates so so good i guess i
could do another little soft show here's xsat bank uh just soft launched yesterday and they make it
they're not a bank they're not they're not like actual banks so that you can't like transfer like
they don't you already have a checking account with them but they just make it very simple it's
a very simple interface.
It's just like they only have one strategy right now
for stable coins or Bitcoin.
Basically deposit your stable coin
and then you stake and you earn.
That's how I envision these banking apps to be.
You generate your stable coins
from your checking account instantly
and then you have options.
It's like, okay, this one will give you 9% interest,
but it's a little bit risky.
It's a trading strategy.. It's a trading strategy.
This one's a lending strategy.
Your digital tokens are being lent out to borrowers, and you get this interest rate.
And that's how I envision it.
They're not going to make you hold your keys.
Your keys are basically just going to be your bank account login information.
It's already secure.
and they'll probably just give you the the walled garden experience of like they're they're going to
pick and choose like what's really easy to use as far as i'll call it d5 strategies but a lot of it's
probably going to be c5 strategies but they'll just make it really easy and if you want to leave
that walled garden you'll have the ability to so there's probably also going to be an option of
send it to my my public key that's going to take it outside of that world guard and that's going to put it in your MetaMask wallet like you're
describing. And then from there, then you're on your own. You're open to making all of those
mistakes, but you also have access to any strategy that you want in any DeFi platform that you want.
But I think to protect the end users, because most people don't mind like necessarily like the centralization of it.
They just want the ease of use and feeling secure that they're not going to do something
stupid like what you described.
And I say stupid, but very smart people make these mistakes.
They're really easy to do.
So I think that's more likely what you'll see is just a walled garden of very limited
options of yield, but it'll be all within the same banking interface
that end users are already using.
All right, I just heard you call Evan stupid,
but how can I access this thing, man?
Is it available to the public right now from XSAT?
Yeah, so it's their most recent tweet.
If you just follow the XSAT network,
just literally the pin tweet that's just posted yesterday.
All the information's there.
Otherwise, it's web3.x, or you don't even need,
it's xatbank.com.
And right now, it's just soft launch.
It's weird because it doesn't have the APR percentage listed.
So it takes time to figure out what the APR is
because there's a strategy going on in the background.
And it takes a few days of the yield generation to actually tell you what the APR is. That's why I call it a soft launch.
And they also have the total stake amount capped to a million dollars right now. It's probably
right now they're letting retail in and then the cap will get filled probably within a couple of
days. But that cap's just going to keep getting raised and raised. That's why I call it a very
soft launch right now. But what they're trying to do is just make it very simple interface.
You don't even have to use your Ethereum model.
You can use passkey, so just basically logging in with an Apple account or a Google account
if you want, or you could use your public keys.
But just making as simple of a user experience as possible to find yield opportunities.
So right now there's only one, but in the next couple of months, you'll see like multiple
yield opportunities for like just even Tether.
So just like I was describing with like traditional banks is what they're doing.
They'll be able to do it faster just because they're not a highly regular like US bank.
So what you'll see is just multiple yield strategies.
One of them will say it's Delta delta neutral trading delta neutral trading strategies this is the apr lending
strategy your tokens are being like with a little description of what's actually going on in the
background lending strategy this means your tokens are being lent out to borrowers but it's safe
because every borrower is backed by over collateralization so if they ever like get into a
margin call position their collateral could always be sold they ever get into a margin call position,
their collateral could always be sold
and you always get a one-to-one backing.
So there's risk, but it's not risk-free,
but it's still pretty low risk.
And then I don't know what the really risky strategies
will be maybe instead of a delta neutral trading strategy,
maybe it could be like a real trading strategy
where there's definitely volatility risk
of it going up or down.
But that's the plan. Just making a limited menu of options.
Each option has a description, each option has a percentage,
and just keeping it as simple as possible.
And then making it as easy to access as possible and linking it with,
eventually linking it with real bank accounts.
Do you know the percentage right now, the APR?
It literally launched yesterday.
And it hasn't been – it's basically been grassroots-permitted right now.
I mean, it's on socials.
But the yield, from what I understand, is going to take a couple of days.
I have no idea.
Cool.
So I'm just going to watch this couple of days um i have no idea cool so i'm just gonna watch this thing for sure and i mean yeah i mean i yeah just think my head starts cbl you know i would anticipate some good
things yeah i mean i i yeah i think this one's probably going to be subsidized too. So like as far as the yield might be pretty good,
but it just doesn't show it.
I've been following the chats because like I said,
it is a separate team, but I don't know how to describe it.
I wish there was an APR percentage because that's a very obvious,
that's a very simple question that you asked is what is the APR?
And I'm like, I don't know.
That's why it's going to be hard.
Like as an end user, like I can tell you this exists, but until it shows an APR,
I would say just wait and see. Cause right now it's just basically being, uh, soft launched and
tested mostly with people that are already in the XF community. People that probably, uh, are already
validators or custodians or mining pools. They're, they're kind of the target demographic here.
Uh, everyone else is just kind of proof of concept. Wait and see. And there's only one strategy. I think it's going to get a lot
more interesting when there's multiple strategies because you'll see the higher yield strategies
with higher risk and lower risk strategies with lower return. And then ideally, we could also
tap into other protocols and things like that. Just's kind of like why if I kind of invented this a couple of years ago, like the programmatic trading strategies, I think that's definitely on the table, too.
So none of this stuff's really new.
If you think about it, not a lot of it's new.
It's just kind of just making it easier and more accessible to regular users
who aren't crypto natives.
And going back to like earlier, I brought up Luna.
Like that as Luna blew up
and as much as people lost money,
the whole concept of it was like such an easy way
to onboard regular people in the crypto.
And unfortunately, because of the way it ended,
a lot of regular people that weren't into crypto before had lost, because of the way it ended, a lot of regular people that weren't
into crypto before lost a lot of money. But being able to basically buy a crypto asset,
generate a stable coin against it, it's like showing you like, this is what crypto is like,
you have a collateral and you could generate liquidity against it. And then you take that
liquidity that you generated. And UST, you're at the time, and this is why it kind of blew up, was 20% APR.
There's no real APR.
That was because just their model and it blew up.
But you have this opportunity.
There's nowhere else you can get a 20% yield in traditional finance.
and it was proven to be unsustainable.
And it was proven to be unsustainable.
But I think we'll see like yields of, you know,
like 10% or more using more safe strategies.
And that's still a yield that's kind of out of reach
for most people.
I mean, like I said, my checking account
gives me like 3% to 4% interest,
which is really good compared, or my saving account,
which is like really good compared to maybe like
four years ago whenever it was like 0.2% or something stupid but most regular retail users don't have access to 10 percent or more interest rates against just dollars without like really high risk.
Man, what's your commission from PNC by the way because they just bought my my house loan a
couple of months back i i don't it's it's still weird to me that they're like a national bank
now it's like like i said they're like a local pittsburgh bank when i was growing up and then
they just started acquiring other banks i went to college in a different state and it was weird
because all of a sudden all these like local banks became pnc banks i was like cool but it's still like just a local bank to me so i don't know
i have no association with them i have a familiar familiar rarity with them
they're my i opened the bank account with them in probably like 2002
or checking account so let me ask you that.
I mean, you're obviously talking about things you've seen happen.
So let me ask you the tough question here.
Where do you see all of this stuff going here in the future?
Just because, I mean, we've seen all-time highs for Bitcoin recently.
Is there any key developments?
Because I know you're talking about a lot of this stuff is not new.
It's simply a new iteration of how to use some of these tools.
Do you think there's going to be any fun, exciting thing over the next 6 to 12 months as far as leveraging?
Maybe even some existing tools that have not been leveraged appropriately that people should be looking out for.
I mean, just exactly what I said.
The news yesterday was PNC taps Coinbase
to create crypto trading offerings for bank customers.
To think that they're the only bank
that's in the process of doing this is ridiculous.
PayPal is not a traditional bank, they're a digital bank.
PayPal was one of the first ones to do this.
Like, what was it, two years ago maybe?
Where they basically made it possible
because globally, like, a lot of people
have PayPal accounts. They have a lot of
dollars deposited into PayPal,
just like a bank, and they just
made it easy to buy Bitcoin.
That's what we're going to see. It's all about
liquidity and accessibility.
Like, everyone, at least in the United States,
almost everyone has a checking account.
Not everyone has money, extra money, but everyone has a checking account.
And anyone with a checking account will, with a couple of clicks, be able to swap their dollars, their other digital dollars.
But for those end users, it doesn't even matter.
They'll be able to access crypto.
First with Bitcoin and then, you know, your top crypto assets that the bank waitlists and deems
as being safe. And the easier it is, the better. Like Robinhood, in the COVID years, Robinhood
introduced so many people to crypto because they were a traditional trading app for traditional
finance, but they opened up the doors to crypto and then everyone's getting their COVID checks
and they're bored and sitting at home
and had nothing better to do.
And they started buying crypto
because Robinhood made it stupid easy.
The more stupid easy that banks make it for end users.
And like I said, everyone has a bank account.
Everyone has some,
most people have some amount of money.
Some people have more than others.
The easier you make it. And as Bitcoin's hitting new all-time highs, we see this every cycle.
No one wants to buy Bitcoin when it's 50, like in this cycle.
No one wanted to buy it when it was like 30 to 50K or 20K.
But now there's 120K.
The more it's in the news, once it's like 150K, everyone's going to want to buy it.
But no one wanted to buy it whenever it was 50K and 30K and 20K.
But once it starts hitting the news and hits all-time highs week after week after week,
that's when everyone wants to buy it.
And you see it.
Everyone on this call that's been in crypto for a long time, you know when this happens
because you know when it happens because you get all the text messages from the people
that you haven't talked to since high school.
And they're like, how do I buy this?
Well, if the banking apps already have it, you're not going to get those text messages anymore because
they want to they see bitcoin in the news they're going to log into their bank of america app or
their bitcoin or their pnc app and they're just going to buy bitcoin like they don't have to ask
you they don't have to create a coinbase account they're going to do any of that they just use
the applications that they already use you know what i'm actually super appreciative of that
not getting those messages is going to,
is going to make my life a lot easier.
Cause you're right.
It happens every time.
And it's always like after it's already gone so high up and I'm like,
I don't know if I'd be buying it.
It's nice.
I'll hold it.
I don't know if I'd be buying a lot more.
Yeah.
I mean,
it's kind of annoying when it happens but it's really nice
to kind of serve as a signal and that starts happening you know like we're might be hitting
a top here they say like when your taxi driver your uber driver starts asking you starts talking
about crypto that's whenever the bull market's almost over but this one might be different just
because of the buyers of bitcoin so bitcoin is obviously like the index fund that backs the entire crypto and altcoin industry.
And because of the buyers, this cycle of Bitcoin, there's going to be dips, big ones compared to the traditional stocks.
I don't know. I can't say with certainty, but I don't know if we're going to see like a 50, 60.
Definitely. If there's an 80% drawdown,
like there has traditionally been every single Bitcoin cycle,
I'd be very surprised just because the more the price drops,
the more these fucking like BlackRock and all these huge in like sovereign funds
and potentially like the US government,
they signed into legislation like the strategic reserve,
but they still haven't created like their acquisition strategy.
Like this cycle, like, I don't know if like we're going to see the dips in Bitcoin especially
that we've traditionally seen and gotten used to.
And if you think about it from like a retail standpoint, all those people that are texting
us at the end of each cycle, if they end up buying, whether we tell them not to, or give
them advice how to, they buy it anyway.
And then they get wrecked. They usually sell at a loss because they're not to or give them advice how to. They buy it anyway.
And then they get wrecked.
They usually sell at a loss because they're not able to hold for another four years.
Traditionally, if you bought the top of every single Bitcoin cycle, you bought it 18K in 2017.
You bought it at 30K or whatever the next cycle.
But at 69K the next cycle.
If you bought at the top of every single Bitcoin cycle, but then you held, you'd be in profit right now. But if you look, if you have the statistic of all of these new retail users who bought Bitcoin for the first time at the end of a hype cycle,
I bet almost all of them sold at a loss because they didn't have the experience or the conviction to hold it.
But this cycle, it's different buyers.
They're not going to be selling it.
If it goes down, they're going to be buying more.
Yeah, I think you're dead on dude last cycle uh i made a little bit of money shorting stuff because i did get a lot of those messages and i it never feels good when you're saying like
i'm making money because people are losing it um but there's a lot of opportunity for that
yeah this i mean this cycle is different, man.
I can't pinpoint when things are going to take a turn for the worst, right?
And even if it is a turn for the worst later down the line,
I don't think it's going to be as drastic as before.
It's simply because the adoption of crypto has just been increasing exponentially,
especially with governments not only adopting it,
some of them really bringing it into their actual balance sheets, which is kind of wild to think about having, you know, nation states kind of bringing in crypto, not only adoption, but
strategies for their, you know, their countries, which is wild. But there's just more and more adoption. People are more okay with it being considered a real asset,
which basically means that, you know, Chase is done accumulating
and now they're willing to make money off your backs.
If you're wondering what that looks like, that's what it is.
Well, that's the other thing.
Like, we can guess who's buying right now,
but most people don't talk about buying or holding the asset
until they've already bought it.
So how many institutions, sovereign funds, and everyone else
have been buying and not talking about it?
How long was JP Diamond shitting on Bitcoin
while they're slowly building infrastructure in the background
and accumulating?
No one talks about their bag until they've already secured their bag
my the one that right now or are uh like government representatives that have been
so anti-crypto like i would love to be a fly on the wall to see what their what their holdings
look like just it must be yeah because there's nothing there's no rules against them
personally acquiring so the thing with governments that's different from like
hedge funds and sovereign funds is the government works slow and everything has
to go through Kong like in the United States to Congress and stuff so like it's
known in advance when they're going to acquire but like that's not the case
with like corporate treasuries
or sovereign funds or hedge funds. They have the luxury of privacy and they could be accumulating
while they're putting out negative statements in the news. And then as soon as they secure
their bag, then they're like, this is great. Everyone should buy it. But they don't get on
board until they're done accumulating.
You're so right.
I just noticed we're two minutes to a whole hour here.
Evan, I want to hear from you.
Any thoughts, any takeaways
that you think people should be
kind of paying attention to in this space?
Yeah, I think, you know,
Zach, something you said
that I really want to highlight a bit more is how unlikely it is that we'll see those infamous, you know, 50% liquidation wicks.
That's something I hadn't even thought about before this space.
But as soon as you brought that up, you know, it clicked for me.
I was like, wait, you're totally right.
You know, usually by this point, we've seen a flash crash right i mean i've
experienced a handful myself and every time it's like holy shit better you'll buckle in right because
i mean i you know the long-term goal stays the same right no matter where you bought at previous
all-time highs you would still be in profit but sitting through those flash crashes flash crashes
can be pretty painful.
But, you know, now with the adoption that we're seeing and players that are,
you know, in the space, as far as actively investing, right. I think that's going to kind of make the emotional experience for retail
easier as well.
I wouldn't. So you said, you said 50%.
I think from here and the higher we go, 50% is still possible.
It's probably unlikely.
I think the floor, and this is just me personally,
I think the floor is going to be the previous all-time high.
And we might have already hit that bottom, and we're kind of moving up now.
But we got close to set 69K on the last big drop,
like after the administration started and things cooled down earlier this year.
I think that's probably the floor.
And I don't know if we'll hit it again,
but that now that we're at 120,
so I guess that'd be 50% drop from 140.
So I think that's the furthest it would go.
But like when we're talking historically,
we're talking like 80% drops,
but I think you were more referring
to like a short-term drop.
I think a short-term flash crash of 50%
is not going to happen.
Like it wouldn't happen quickly.
It would happen over like multiple months maybe.
But I don't think we're going to see an 80% drop.
And I don't think we're going to see a 30% Bitcoin drop in a day or two.
Like I don't think that's going to happen.
But altcoins are more risky obviously.
But I think that's one of the things we have not seen as much this cycle
is the rotation of capital into alts. And I think that's just because it's a different buyer of
bitcoin this time it's these these large funds that have to be as risk off as possible and bitcoin
used to be too risky for them now bitcoin's basically big enough that it's it's low risk
enough that they're willing to buy it but they still see the other assets as being too risky
but like we're when we were talking earlier about these,
these treasury management companies holding,
holding like altcoins and things like that,
I think that's going to be one of the biggest drivers of the alt cycle is
seeing the success with those.
And that's where we're going to start seeing some alts taking off.
And then also like, it's just like a news cycle too.
Like once alts start taking off, they're talking about in the news,
retail jumps in. And if retail wants to jump in and they're talking about in the news, retail jumps in.
And if retail wants to jump in
and they're able to do it
through their own banking apps
that they already have,
the easier it is for them to jump in,
the better it's going to be for the altcoins
as long as they have access to the altcoins.
It depends on what their banking apps
give them access to.
But either way,
like there's still Robinhood,
Coinbase is still super easy.
So it's not hard for them.
But I don't think the the i think the reason that
this cycle is not playing out the previous ones is because the buyers of these largest institutions
that are only going to be buying like bitcoin for example maybe maybe as other uh assets mature
uh the largest funds that have to be risked off will start diversifying into like the really large
caps but retail is really the thing that's going to drive altcoins
because everyone always feels like they missed out on Bitcoin
and they need to get to the next Bitcoin.
And that's always been the case for every single crypto cycle.
And I don't think we've necessarily seen that yet.
I mean, right now, there's barely any tokens
that are even at their January highs yet.
Like Dogecoin was at like 49 cents in January.
Now it's like 24.
And it's one of the better performing alts right now so it's definitely lagging behind but i do think
that at some point that there will be a bitcoin dominance drop it's just i have no idea when
that's going to be but i think it's always going to be retail driven there's no way institutions
will drive the um the treasury companies that we were talking about earlier,
the wrapped tokenized publicly traded companies.
I think institutions could get behind that.
Not to the extent of Bitcoin,
but their market caps are smaller so they could have just even more
volatility. But I think we'll still see it.
This cycle, I just have no idea.
None of us can predict these things.
This cycle was definitely different than all the previous ones.
I think we all agree on that.
Yeah, I'd say so. I'm 100% with you on that one.
Definitely not what things used to look like just a little while ago.
And to be fair, that's kind of exciting.
I mean, it's new opportunities. It's new people, new blood getting in here because it's due, right?
It's due.
A lot of people talk about how cycles – there's Bitcoin cycle, Bitcoin cycle, Bitcoin cycle, and I'm over here going, this is more of a liquidity cycle, guys.
It lags about nine months from global liquidities that are seen out there.
You can literally look up global liquidity and see how this stuff actually works.
We didn't even get into that.
We didn't even get into that. We didn't even get into that.
The M2 money supply.
Yeah.
We're lagging still.
There's still a lot of M2.
Yeah.
And I think that window is going to close too.
I think that the lagging behind is definitely going to change over the next few years. I think that we're not going to lag those nine months that I've seen previously.
I think we're going to close that gap little by little.
But yeah.
Retail is going to come in when interest rates drop.
I think that's like,
that's what happened during COVID.
As soon as either Jerome Powell gets replaced or Trump's able to force his
hands or what,
it's going to take interest rates to go down and that that makes risk on assets in favor for both institutions and retail.
And once retail gives access to more liquidity cheaply,
that's when the alts take off because they want to get the next Bitcoin.
They feel like they missed out on Bitcoin.
They want the next thing.
And the news cycle is playing to their favor and talking about all these.
The market drives itself.
Once the market starts going up, it creates this momentum momentum and everyone wants to get in the easier it is for
everyone to get in the better and that's what's happening right now with the stable coin bill and
the banking apps like working with coinbase and things like that yeah it's it's wild to think uh
this is a great time to be alive to actually see this stuff happening um i mentioned this to people
when talking about the
cycles and previous all-time highs. The biggest difference between this cycle and previous cycles,
we've always had some kind of money printing event with previous cycles. And we have not seen that
yet with this cycle. And yet we are already way up from where we were last time around. So
you're going to see that parabolic movement as soon as, you know,
quote unquote, money printing takes place, which, you know,
lowering interest rates is essentially that.
Well, there's also a big money printing event that is rumored,
but we haven't seen.
And that's the reassessment of the U.S. gold reserves.
That's all part of the Cynthia Loomis, what she's trying
to pass is basically changing the book value because the book value of the gold reserve right
now is what it was in like, I forget what year, like 1950 or 60 or 70 or something. But gold's
like thousands of dollars right now per ounce and it's book value for the U.S. government's like,
I can't remember the exact number, like $10 or 20 dollars per ounce or something crazy so basically they could just reassess the book value
that'd be a money printing event in my opinion a book value money printing event but print billions
of dollars out of hundreds of billions of dollars out of thin air and being able to liquidate some
of that gold or collateralize that gold to generate uh money to to basically accumulate Bitcoin.
That's all part of the bill.
This is all publicly known.
They're showing their cards of what they want to do.
It still needs to pass the regulatory hurdles.
But the one limitation of the sovereign fund is they can't use taxpayer money to buy Bitcoin.
But if they're able to generate capital out of thin air, which they could do by simply reassessing the book value of their gold reserve, then they have the opportunity to have hundreds of billions of dollars to buy Bitcoin if they want to.
They won't use all of it.
At that point, they could almost clear the U.S. debt at that point, too.
I mean, if you're talking about gold being valued at about 20 bucks,
the big question here really boils down to how much gold is actually in there?
No, they couldn't.
No, so they all, their book flies like maybe tens of billions of dollars and it could become
hundreds of billions of dollars.
The debt's like trillions and trillions of dollars.
It's not paying the debt.
Oh, my whole idea is like just make a dent.
We're in so much debt.
We're in so much debt.
We're in so much debt.
Yeah, it's just... But hundreds of billions of dollars is still a lot of money.
They can print hundreds of billions of dollars.
That's the number, but we're trillions in debt.
We're kind of like 17 trillion.
I'll be honest.
I think that Bitcoin is literally the...
Could be the saving grace for something like this.
Because, sure sure you're talking
about a few billion right there as far as bitcoin is concerned but what happens when the government
acquires bitcoin and puts a boatload of money into it the value of that asset is going to increase as
well so it's it's it's an internal way of printing money if you think about it um by increasing the
value of an asset making Making the politicians rich.
All the politicians are probably buying...
If they're confident this is going to happen
and they're all privy to the conversation
and the bills are public,
they are personally acquiring Bitcoin.
They're going to get really wealthy.
Oh, you mean even more wealthy?
Yeah.
Yeah.
They've been doing this for a while
yeah this isn't this isn't a new game oh man this isn't a new game they're playing
zach i appreciate this game's different because everyone has access to it yeah like we're all in
on it well hopefully we're all in on i know the people in here all in on it. The goal is for everyone outside of our CT circles to be on it as well. And again, that's the goal behind spaces. That's the goal behind communicating all this stuff out is making sure that people are educated in how these things work and how we've been kind of taken advantage of for a long time without even noticing and thinking that it's okay.
kind of taken advantage of for a long time without even noticing and thinking that it's okay.
You know, Bitcoin is the thing that really levels the playing field. And I'm excited to, you know,
always have these conversations, Zach, like you're a wealth of knowledge. And it's super exciting to
be able to talk about this stuff and see how we can actually experience a little bit of that
sovereign freedom, essentially, through actually owning your assets and being involved in things that, you know,
strive to not only make this network more usable, but more attainable for the general public,
which is the most exciting part for me is seeing, you know, grandma and grandpa being able to
actually hold their own assets and not have it be with somebody else. Is that going to happen all the
way through? I don't think so. But if we strive for it, even the organizations that are out there
holding people's funds have to be a little bit more transparent and have to actually play by
our rules, not the rules that they've made up all the, you know, for all this time, because if they want to stay relevant, they, they, they kind of have to compete with the,
the general public that knows how to hold their own, um, keys and knows exactly how to hold their
own crypto. Um, and you better believe it. Anytime anybody asks me, he's like, Oh,
where are you buying your crypto? It was like on chain on chain guys that that's the way to go.
Um, so I appreciate you, so much, man.
Any final thoughts here?
Anything you want to share?
Where people should be going to find out more
about all the stuff that's going on,
other than, obviously, following you
and that Volta account that's up here?
Those are the best two places.
But just to reshill the news yesterday, WLFI partnership, Trump Act organization, they've got their own stable coin.
It's, I think, number 50 right now by market cap.
It's going to continue growing.
USD1 will be deployed.
There's no date yet.
It's on to Volta in the future.
$6 million investment from WLFI into Volta.
That happened back in May.
WLFI token is going to be tradable within the next six to eight weeks.
It's expected to have a multi-billion dollar market cap,
which means even more access to capital.
So hopefully their portfolios grow and they continue to invest in new
companies and existing companies that they've already invested in.
So excited about that.
Excited to just have their ear.
XSAP Bank launched yesterday, soft launch.
My recommendation is just keep an eye on it.
Maybe give it a few weeks to mature a little bit if you're not already part of the community.
But just stay tuned.
There's more stuff coming.
It's just like with the WLFI, that buy happened
two months ago. And sometimes we can't announce things when we want to, because if there's other
parties involved, like centralized exchanges or just entities that work within a very regulated
environment, which WLFI would consider that for, because one is stable coin, and two,
just who they're associated with. They just need to be very careful and work much slower than than i would like to work especially when it comes
to like a marketing and pr standpoint but yeah just stay tuned volta under at volta underscore
uh or at blockchain zac uh at exit network uh which is uh i didn't mention what that is uh
just uh flagship bitcoin app on volta keep it simple yeah those are the accounts uh
i don't have anything else to say i talked a lot today you did and i appreciate it i love
listening to you uh wish brandon would have jumped up and talked to us a little bit too but that's
okay maybe next time maybe next time but yeah guys um please make sure you're following these
accounts uh and stay tuned for what's happening it's essentially a gateway to not only being well educated as far as what's happening in the space but also a way
to find some great new opportunities for you to invest and do it i would say the right way and
the right way is the one that actually talks to you and shares with you what they're doing how
they're doing it and actually discloses things which is more than I can say for a lot of people in this space.
So love hanging out with you, Zach.
Love getting to speak to you every single time
that we get to have these spaces.
And yeah, Vault has been killing it,
and I can't wait to see where you all go from here.
So make sure you guys leave giving them a follow,
and we'll see you on the next space.
Thanks, everybody.
Have a great one.
Bye.
