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Inside XDC: Devs , Dapps and Decentralization
Recorded: July 9, 2025 Duration: 0:55:58Space Recording
Short Summary
XTC is making waves in the crypto space with the launch of its ETP in Europe, strategic partnerships with Loop, and a bullish outlook for altcoins. As institutional adoption grows, XTC is poised to lead the charge in bridging traditional finance with blockchain technology.
Full Transcription
Music Thank you. all right we are back uh hopefully we are back oh my goodness that's always an indicator that
things are about uh about to get a little bit rocky but guys no we are back let me just go
ahead and do that mic check again real fast before we progress any further guys Guys, if you can hear me in the audience right now, please let me
know with those thumbs up, with some hearts. You guys already know what's up. Give me some kind of
emoji in the bottom right-hand corner there. Let me know that you guys can, in fact, hear us right
now. Thank you, Amity. Thank you. And by the way, the reason why we do this, guys,
is because sometimes Twitter spaces have this thing
where only panelists can hear each other,
and then it just turns out that we're having this in-house conversation
with everyone in the audience thinking that,
what are we doing? Why is no one talking?
So that is the reason why we're doing that.
But Amity, thank you so much for helping us out there with that mic check.
Just get one more, two, one or two more, one or two more confirmations here and i think uh i think we should
be okay i see my man kaido in the building kaido if you can hear me right now please let me know
please let me know thank you frank appreciate you
oh dear i i really hope we get one more. Please give us one more.
Artem, thank you. There we go. Thank you, Artem. Thank you, Soy.
Thank you, Matt. At least I think that's Matt. But thank you, guys.
All right. Thankfully, that has been checked out.
But guys, please give us a couple of more minutes here just to get things set up on the panel.
But in the meantime, you guys already know what's up.
Please go back to that bottom right hand corner. Give us a like, comment and retweet on today's show.
And we will be starting the space in just a few more minutes.
Let's go. future's reflected.
Blocks and chains, they're intertwined.
A digital world where we define.
Fast and low, we feel the flow.
Transactions move and we let go.
Encrypted whispers in the sky.
XTC's the way we can fly.
XTC, you're my currency.
Blockchain dreams, you're all I see.
A hybrid world where we belong.
In the digital light, we move along.
Oh, XTCCC set me free.
Smart contracts and harmony in this network
who are on the rise.
Straighten trust beneath the skies.
No borders, no limits, just the code.
Across the world, on this highway we go.
Supply chains meet in the neon glow.
XTC's the rhythm that we know. Fast and low, you feel the flow. Transactions move and we let go. Encrypted whispers in the sky. XTC's the way we can fly.
is the way we can fly.
XTC, you're my currency.
Blockchain dreams, you're all I see.
A hybrid world where we belong.
In the digital life, we move along.
Oh, XTC, you set me free.
Smart contracts in harmony.
In this network, we're on the rise.
Trading trust beneath the skies.
Sinking hearts, sinking minds.
Cross-border dreams we redefine.
And the future will always stay.
XTC, lead the way.
DC lead the way.
XTC, you're my currency.
Blockchain drinks, you're all I see.
A hybrid world where we belong.
In the digital light, we move along.
Oh, XTC, set me free.
Smart contracts in harmony. In this network we're on the rise.
Trade and trust beneath the skies.
In the cold we are one.
Ecstasy, our journey's just begun.
Fast and low we feel the sound.
In the blockchain we are found. What's going on, everyone? Welcome back to XTC, the EVM compatible later one blockchain
powering payments, RWAs, ZPINs, and so much more. My name is Ice, and I'll be your host
for today's show. Now, ladies and gents, I, so before we actually start,
I just want to throw this out there. There is something happening on X right now where
panelists can't pull up or perhaps the audio isn't going through. So if you guys are having
trouble connecting to the panel right now and you guys are in the audience, give your app a reset.
Like if you're on your phone, then close the app entirely, come back to the space,
send your request, and I'll be more than happy to bring you guys up. All right. Well, thank you so much for your patience. But that being said,
for those of you guys that tune in every single week, you guys already know that we typically
focus on subject matters that directly impact how consumers find value in the products and
services that XDC builds. However, this time, we're going to be doing things a bit differently.
In today's space, I want to put the spotlight on the developers,. However, this time, we're gonna be doing things a bit differently.
In today's space, I wanna put the spotlight
on the developers, the founders, the builders,
their experiences and learning moments
when it comes to their journey on developing apps
for said consumers, and of course,
how they view decentralization.
So let's talk about this, guys.
But first, please let me check in with my co-host,
DeFi Expert and my man,
head of growth over at XTC.
What's going on, Benny? How are you doing?
Hey, GMG and everybody.
Thanks for hosting another space from XTC.
And thanks for the audience,
the speakers, attendees over here.
We are going to explore a lot of
cool stuff over here around the devs.
And of course, all of the spotlight news of XTC.
Happy to contribute on that.
Yes sir, you always are man. You're always doing so much in the front and also behind the scenes.
And actually speaking of behind the scenes, Benny, we actually got quite a handful of
announcements or I guess things to cover. If you guys can redirect your attention real fast to the
top of the Jumbotron there,
you guys will have noticed that we've actually pinned up
several posts coming from XTC.
My man, do you want to spend maybe two or three minutes
to talk about this before we kick things off?
Yeah, sure.
So I'm starting off by the first one,
which is a post shared by 21Shares.
So XTC ETP is officially launched in Europe and that's a really a major milestone
for XTC that enables TradFi companies, asset managers to easily get on board on this token
index. I mean on this index that would be XTCN. So that is, I mean, we've been talking about TradFi, and these are soft for quite a long time.
So this ETP helps us to preparing the infrastructure for the TradFi companies to loading capital and contributing in the future of global trade finance and RWS, which we are so bullish since the inception of XTC.
So that's the first one I wanted to highlight.
And it's keep expanding into the different regions and countries
as we are moving forward.
That was the first day.
So keep your eyes on the XTC handles.
You'll announce accordingly after any new listings into the different stock changes.
And the second one is a is a
Publishment about some interviews and statements about that XCC co-founder has made
Recently and it's available on it's published on xc foundation and different
official accounts as well and it's basically it's it's worth to read that article as well it's really
informative when it comes to the tokenization and the future of tokenization and some comparison between the tokenization in terms of
I mean compare with PTC and how the big is the market right and
The last but not least it's more defy related thing. So we
Officially got integrated into the loop
loop is a project for leverage yield um yield platform that we i would like to announce this as well that we invested in this project so it's gonna be part of the portfolio of xdc
ventures and also part of the ecosystem of xdc defy we are announcing more and doing more
collaboration with loop within the campaigns and other marketing initiatives
to boarding more liquidity, educating people how it works, how they can earn yield on top of that.
So that's the overall thing.
I can see Angus in top as well.
So he's our expert for the 21 shares announcement angus if you want you
can for example one one or two minutes explain how it did happen yeah benny thank you so much for
passing the mic um yep so this has been a year in collaboration with some of our strongest partners
so yep we now have an etp we have an icing we can hit various
platforms more on the institutional side because of the icing because they want to have their equities their effects and their fixed
income all custody in the same place so giving ecstasy and icing perfect when it comes to the
retail side we also have etoro going live very shortly and also Robinhood.
So we're hitting institutional and retail left, right, and center.
It's going to be a busy summer, but we've done the heavy lifting.
It's just a matter of time now.
Thanks for giving me the mic, Benny.
Thank you, Benny.
Thank you, Angus.
Oh, my goodness.
That's actually quite a lot. I didn't realize so much was happening. So we got the European expansion. We got more accessibility, getting the products in the hands of more exchanges, more people around the world.
course the integration with loop and oh man i just i it's it's difficult to fathom how much you guys
do every single week it feels like you know a short six day passes by you guys just absolutely
destroy the space yo angus please go ahead yep so we've got kraken crypto.com coinbase all lined up
and then the matter of weeks so um yeah we'veheaded into the US, which we haven't done before.
So, yeah, that's a big capital market, let's be clear. So it's going to be very interesting
to see what happens. Man, XTC truly is leading the way here. The song doesn't lie. The song
doesn't lie. But let me ask this, Angus. So we're talking Europe, we're talking US,
we're talking NA, right?
North America.
What is next?
What's next for XTC?
So from our perspective,
I like to think we have three verticals.
So there's trade finance,
which have a massive team.
We have payments
and we have real worldworld asset tokenization.
So those are what I see as the three verticals of what XTC is.
So cross-border payments is going to be huge.
You know, we're quite fortunate that we're based in the UAE and, you know, cross-border remittance to Southeast Asia from the Middle East or from Australia or from Europe.
We're quite fortunate that we're based in the UAE,
We can capture that and we are poised to do so. When it comes to real world asset tokenization, we have the best connections with asset holders and asset managers.
So we can join the dots there.
Not an issue whatsoever. um you know when it comes to mltr um given that we are only one of three chains that's actually
iso 222 compliant um it's only ripple and stellar and us um yep so we can interact with the banks
we can interact with anyone too um so we've got all the tech ready um we just need to um
yeah get our name out there um this is what we're all about ice
just gotta get our name out there well my guy angus i think you guys have already done that
already and then some but i do understand you know kind of keep the keep our heads down keep
on building keep on moving forward and as far as'm concerned, XCC has done all of that and probably just a bit more.
So Angus, Benny, congratulations on everything.
This is awesome news to hear.
But that being said, let's go ahead and check in with our dear panelists.
First off, I do want to say hello to our friends joining us from Omni.
How are you guys doing?
GM, GM, it's a beautiful morning in sunny South Florida. Happy
to join you guys again. I'm Sheldon Deere, ecosystem director at Omni Network, and I have
been holding Zinfind since before it was an ERC20 token. I'm very familiar with y'all work, so just
happy to join y'all on Spaces. Quick reminder about what we do at Omniti, just really briefly.
We're an open source interoperability company for Bitcoin.
BTCFi is our main focus, but we support Bitcoin applications that you know and love,
like Odin Fund, Liquidium, and many others.
And we're just happy to join y'all on Spaces to talk about devs, dApps, and decentralization.
Thanks for having us again.
Thank you, Shelton, for being here. And before we start, let's go ahead and check in with
account representative behind Turn. What's going on, Matt? Welcome back, man.
Yo, yo. Hey, guys. Yeah. Congrats, Benny and Angus and XDC community. Really, really bullish news.
Nice to be sitting in here and listening. It's very inspiring, to be honest.
Yeah, but happy Hump Day, everyone.
Matt here, BD and content guy over at Turn.
We're on the road to mainnet and TGE ourselves.
So, yeah, give us a follow.
A lot of juicy details are coming up about all of that.
Actually, yeah, we just launched the
TGE announcement last week.
Yeah, and IDOs are in our pipeline
at the moment, as well as a few other announcements.
So we're really excited for next week.
It's crazy it's happening next week already, but we're
less than 10 days away, folks. Pretty cool stuff.
Thanks for having us, XDC.
Thank you for joining us, folks. Pretty cool stuff. Thanks for having us, XDC. Thank you for joining us, Matt. Man, there's a lot of bullish news going around for so many
projects, and maybe the month of July is kind of blessed. Or perhaps it's a Q3 thing. I don't
know. You guys tell me. But anyway, guys, thank you so much for joining us today. We're here to
talk devs. We're here to talk decentralized applications. So why don't we actually get right into that? I don't know how many of us here on stage are devs,
but if you're not, if you are a dev, then that's perfect. But if you're not a dev, then maybe you
can just speak behalf on the company that you represent and kind of the goals and visions that
you guys had. So to kind of start things off on the panel here, I want to hear from you guys.
I want to hear what first drew you or your company into building decentralized apps and what goals did you guys set for yourselves? So please take a moment,
think about what you want to say, and whenever you're ready to join in on the conversation,
please use the bottom right hand panel to raise your hands like so. And of course,
if you have anything to say or add in direct response to what the previous speaker just said,
keep those hands raised for me.
But also hit me up with one of these waving hand emotes right here, and I'll do my best to skip the line and send you the mic ASAP.
And for everyone else in the audience listening right now, please go back to that bottom right-hand corner, give us a like, comment, and retweet on today's show as I hand the mic over to Benny, my co-host, to start things off.
Benny, take it away, man.
Yep, sure. mic over to Benny my co-host to start things off Benny take it away man um yep sure yeah it's I mean for this for myself we need to go back I think five or six years ago five years ago maybe four
years ago during the deep last if I summer um so I've been I used to do a lot of running a lot of arbitrage bots. I mean, some small, smart contracts on top of the protocols.
I mean, for a specific answer,
I would say building on DeFi and the composability of DeFi.
That was one of the things that drew my interest
into the DeFi and building the decentralized applications.
I mean, smart contracts and building the decentralized applications, I mean smart contracts and
building on top of them. After being around different communities I got to
use building on XTC network and after that after some time I became an official
member. I think that was the whole journey of my builder um and past carrier past type of thing
so yeah i mean it's been always great that crypto crypto has a lot of huge communities
that you can grow learn and build on top of that right
yeah thank you benny right before we pass it to Matt, just wanted to clarify. When you
said the goal was to build composability on DeFi, can you elaborate a little bit on that?
What do you mean?
So, yeah, exactly. So, still we are dealing with the same issue in DeFi when it comes
to the Dex aggregator, but solved mostly with some top-tier projects.
We have Jumper and LeFi on XTC Network that aggregates those liquidity.
We have Oka.Finance, which is another portfolio company of XTC Ventures.
So basically, it was aggregating liquidity among the different sources,
among the different liquidity sources.
That was one of the things that allows other builders
to build on top and solves the liquidity issue
and concentrate it into one single API.
So that is one example when it comes to the yield parts.
There are many yield aggregators from the last DeFi summer.
I can say Yern Finance was one of the successful projects at that front.
But nowadays we are seeing more vaults are coming up into crypto that's allocating capital of the users into the different DeFi primitives or RWA assets that we are really pushing forward on that front,
that people just only deposit their stable coins or deposit assets,
and then a curator or an on-chain asset manager can easily allocate assets into the different yield sources.
Thank you, Benny.
So allowing builders to kind of like build on top of what each other has already established,
kind of addressing this liquidity fragmentation issue, which I do believe is one of the biggest
overarching problems here in the space, right?
I think a lot of people are building, kind of building their own passion, building towards
their own dreams.
But when that happens, the competition does get in the way,
and everyone believes that our product is the best,
and that may be true.
That definitely may be true.
But the problem is that everyone else also thinks that.
So liquidity fragmentation, definitely something that we need to solve
in this space here, Benny.
But in the meantime, Matt, you got your hand up.
Let's go ahead and bring it over to you, King.
Hey, what's up?
Yeah, like for me, I think one of the biggest things
that drew me into this space initially
was kind of understanding how we have been the product.
Like we think that we're consuming
insert big web 2 company here.
We think that they're consuming their products,
but we're really...
I forgot what the saying is,
but it's like, we are the data.
And then they're selling our information to other people
to make money off of us and so when i kind of had that it's really if if you're not paying you are
the product there it is there it is angus you're a legend thank you for filling in my brain fart
if you're not paying for it, you're the product,
and we are the product at the end of the day.
And so when I started to dig deeper into decentralized networks
and learning not only validation and all of this kind of deep technical stuff,
but more so high level when I learned about RWAs,
when I learned about Deepin,
and how folks are able to kind of recapture the value of their data
and, you know, earn from that input.
That to me was very exciting and liberating,
realizing that, you know, you can almost kind of take the model
and flip it on its head.
And the more you contribute to the ecosystem,
the more you get out of it.
And obviously in play, it's a difficult,
it's a tricky thing to nail down.
I know a lot of projects are still out there.
They're building, for instance, in the deep end space,
mastering this business model.
But it really brought a lot of folks back
to the core of why we're here in the first place,
which is to decentralize opportunity
and actually use the technology that is blockchain
to offer that in real world use cases.
So I think that's kind of like a fantastic
scalable business model
that a lot of folks are trying to master.
And so yeah, kudos to everyone that's here.
Oh man, from product,
from being the consumer, the product,
now we're into the builder phase.
It's good. It feels good. We don't want to be the product.
We don't want to be the people that's at the end of the food chain, so to speak, right?
But, you know, Angus, I would love to actually pass you the mic on this because I'm very curious.
You've definitely been in the space you've been building for quite a long time.
For you and perhaps for XTC or any other companies that you have expertise over Angus, how different was it building decentralized apps now compared to when you first started?
Yes.
So from my perspective, with my XTC hat on, we built a motorway.
And we're not giving people, we're not the driving license agency.
So we built a very strong roadway and anyone's an open source, anyone's allowed to build on us.
so from our perspective
we support
multiple fronts
whether that's
financially or from a technology
perspective
Benny works very closely
with a lot of the people
that are integrating with XTC
the fact that we're EVM
compatible
means that we get a lot of attention
from a lot of protocols.
Solana is a nightmare to build on, for example, because just in terms of their code is totally different.
But we're EVM compatible. So to go directly to your question,
I think it's the responsiveness I've had
from people wanting to build on any protocol.
The fact that we're EVM compatible,
we're fast, we're reliable,
we've got a pretty good response rate. And the fact that we can provide, as I said, the financial and technology commitment behind that as well. Yeah, we're doing okay. I hope that answers your question.
I hope that answers your question.
We're doing okay.
I think you guys are doing beyond just okay, Angus.
Right before we pass it to Sheldon, I see you have your hand up, brother.
But right before we hand the mic off over to Sheldon, on one last thing, Angus, you mentioned being EVM compatible and you mentioned building a Solana can sometimes result in a nightmare.
Now, of course, I am no tech expert.
I am not a developer.
I want to hear your thoughts on this. In terms of why EVM is superior to Solana and this and that,
how does the developer actually go about picking the chain?
How does the developer go about choosing the right stack for them?
So my understanding, and I only look at this from a business perspective,
it's speed of transaction.
How quick is your finality?
How many transactions per second can you do?
And what is your uptime?
So they need stability as much as anything.
So I'll hand the mic very quickly over to um benny but from my perspective and the people that i'm speaking to all they care about is speed stability and reliability um so yeah
benny you probably had further conversations than i have but that that's what the people
i'm speaking to all that's all they care about
speed stability and reliability yeah benny please go for it yeah yeah that's truly correct um so to extend on that part the ecosystem is also it does matter as well how about the toolings that we
support of course it's evm if for example dev devs are requesting us certain toolings or certain Oracle
or certain specific dev toolings,
we always opt to bring them on XTC as well.
So I mean, that's also important to mention
that it should have a developer experience as well.
Some people on Twitter call it DX.
So yeah, I use DX as well.
Developer experience is also one of the major factors
for the builders that they can easily build on top.
Even if you are EVM, right?
So dev toolings in the ecosystem are so important.
Interesting.
Personally, I'm happy to know. I'm happy to know that I just so happened to stumble across the right chain when I first got on boarded. I know you know this story, Benny, but when I first got on board, yeah, I didn't know what I was doing. Most people don't, right? But I just so happened to land on Ethereum, on EDM compatible. So it's good to know. It's good to know we did have a little bit of luck on our side here. Let's go ahead and pass it over to Sheldon. And then we check in with Matt right after.
Yeah, I don't know about you guys on the age front, but I came out of high school and into the workforce officially in 2008.
So that's a good moment to, you know, think about the chancellor's bailout. Right.
moment to think about the chancellor's bailout, right? And I definitely caught wind of that
down here in sunny South Florida. The white paper and release was actually on the news,
so it got some small attention at the time. And I ignored it briefly until 2012 when I had to do
a cybersecurity engagement for a corporate client for Bitcoin just a few years later.
corporate client for Bitcoin just a few years later. But there's a value in AppChain thesis
that I sort of surmised after the first four to six years of being in the industry, which is that
there's no one blockchain to do everything. There are blockchains that will be the best at something.
There's blockchains that have tenure, like Bitcoin being the longest chain. But there's no reason why
one chain should have to do everything. That's kind of an antiquated idea that because it's convenient for data standards, that everyone
would just sort of congregate and build social consensus around one technology. So just the same
way that everyone used to think that Amazon would be the only cloud company or Google would be the
only search company, you know, there's no reason to have just one. There may be some market dominance.
There may be some dominance in certain data standards.
But ultimately, that's what brought me to Omniti
because in 2021, when I was moderating in a group on Facebook,
you know, for crypto, there was a project that came forward and said,
hey, we're doing this really interesting technical work
about modular-like clients on application-specific blockchains. And and said, hey, we're doing this really interesting technical work about modular like clients on application specific blockchains.
And I said, that's awesome. That's exactly what I'm interested in.
And I gave a little technical ramble about my research and nobody knew what we were talking about.
But we were very happy to meet each other. And I think not two months later, I was hired on and I've been on ever since.
So it's been a great journey
to focus on building based on interoperability. And that has always paid some homage to Bitcoin.
So we always had to have some proximity for the longest chain while recognizing that the
longest chain shouldn't do everything just because it's the most tenured.
Certainly does make sense. Like when I think of historical provenance and just what has been around for the longest time,
I do have this thought sometimes.
I feel like we have all these chains out here, and this is something that we just discussed
actually yesterday, and it's that we have a lot of builders kind of competing in their
own passions and what they're trying to build, but inevitably this turns into something called
a roll-up war.
Obviously, everybody wants
to bring value on the stuff that they built in the space, but at the end of the day, it kind of
comes down to two things, and I start to question it, and it's that are we eventually going to build
into a future where every single stack or every single chain has its own niche use, just like
you were saying, Sheldon, certain chains are better at other things compared to other chains, right?
So is that the future we're going to kind of adhere to?
Or perhaps are we going to continuously build, gain knowledge along the way,
and inevitably fail and come back to developing these big three main chains?
Do you have any thoughts on this, Sheldon?
Well, there's a natural development of standards versus specializations.
And if you look at the way that some blockchains are targeting
the sort of like generalistic, hey, SVM can do anything, hey, EVM can do anything,
you know, that's not designed to support specialization. That's part of why rollups
are such a thing. But it's also why Vitalik got roasted so hard for not motivating rollups and
other ETH L2s to, you know, have a specific specialization and say,
hey, we're focusing on gaming, we're focusing on high-speed trading, you know, we want to focus
on geospatial data or metaverses or whatever. You know, the more that you have general purpose
blockchains being successful as a sort of wider compute environment, the more the secondary chains
just inherently make sense as long as they're choosing a specialization.
So I think there is still a pretty good environment to have, you know, maybe BitVM or something going on with Bitcoin.
There's EVM, there's SVM, there's ZKVM.
There's lots of reasons why the larger groups of virtual machines can still be useful together.
And they don't have to compete as directly except on that generic blockchain business.
When you get to that level of specialization just one step away, everything makes a lot more sense economically, and we need that real bad.
I got you, Sheldon. Thank you so much for clarifying that.
So differences between them, there's general purpose blockchains.
It's good for general purpose, good for onboarding. But then, of course, once you're kind of in the trenches for a while,
you start to realize that there are, in fact, chains that offer specialization for project
niches, or perhaps there isn't one. And that's what actually drives us to build out these chains,
because we need the framework to work for us at the end of the day. Angus, you got your,
of the day. Angus, you got your, you unmuted. Let's go to you real fast and then we'll check
you unmuted. Let's go to you real fast, and then we'll check in with Matt right after, all right?
in with Matt right after, all right? All right, very quickly, I'm going to check out some acronyms.
HTTP, HLS, MPEG-WebRTC, RTMP, RTSP. Anyone got any idea what any of them mean?
I believe that's a no. All right. That's a no.
All right.
That's a no.
I'll take that as a no.
But that's basically how we watch the difference between Netflix and Amazon Prime.
These are all protocols on the internet, the transfer of information.
So we're talking about the transfer of value.
So no one cares about that stuff.
The internet's been around for a long time now.
But all these protocols are differentiated.
Some of them exactly to the previous speaker says that, you know, basically some are.
So basically if we really want to get into the technicality side of it, so there's packet loss when you're transferring information over the Internet.
So some of them are 100% and will be slower. Some of them are more high frequency.
And yeah, you do have packet loss. But no one cares. You just want to watch a movie, right?
And at the same time, no one actually is going to care about protocol standards going forward but interoperability um in future it's i want to know where my assets are and i i don't care where they are so i i can't say too much about it but um yeah we are working
with a company um specifically around stable coins um and uh yep we will be um the the first uh basically the first l1 so from our perspective
we just want to know all our clients know they don't want to talk about blockchain they so this
is very much um you know we're in the inner circle and we understand this and we're coming from a very nascent space.
But going forward, people just want things to work.
They don't want to know all the acronyms that sit behind this stuff, right?
Sorry, long-winded. Apologies, Ice.
No, you're good, man. I think that makes a lot of sense as well.
You know, it's not just DeFi, but everything that we do here in Web3,
we started off four or five years ago with the big buzzwords,
but now we're really relegating to understanding that, you know what?
Maybe people don't care about the big buzzwords anymore.
That era has passed.
Let's bury all the wires in circuitry.
Let's just make this value deliverance up front.
Just make sure this works.
Don't tell me how it works.
Just make sure it actually works.
Matt, you got your hand up.
Let's go to you, man.
You guys are hitting the nail on the head um less clicks more action more plumbing in the background as i always say um you know when you're you've heard me say this all the time ice but it's
like you're trying you're transferring money on your revolute app and and you don't understand
what's happening in the background,
but there are levers in play that are swapping the euro to your dollar,
or vice versa.
As for the dev stuff,
if you're a dev that knows Solidity,
you're going to gravitate towards EVM ecosystems. If you know Rust, you're going to
gravitate towards Solana. And it is difficult. I understand that there are completely different
frameworks and folks are actually having a lot of time, a hard time converting if you're on one
side or the other. Another kind of aspect is
when you're considering chains,
I mean, gaming
for instance is very popular on
Avalanche, Immutable
scale.
These are all folks that are building
with gaming protocols.
then you also have DeFi. You also have DeFi
you also have DeFi, sorry for the barking
you also have a lot of DeFi activity happening on Ethereum
if you're looking to
I think it was something like 60% of all Ethereum transactions
are still being done by institutional players on ETH.
So, you know, DeFi activities, financial products,
all being built on the main chain that we all come to love, Ethereum,
it's a big deal.
So, you know, financial products are going to gravitate to where the liquidity is,
and that's, you know, the money, all the statistics that come with that
are validated by the numbers.
So, yeah, I mean, all really great points.
Sheldon, you know, shout out to you.
That was really awesome to listen to you,
especially you, Angus, as well.
But yeah, I'll yield my time.
I guess we can kick it over to Benny.
Yeah, just it kind of was hinging
on the edge of my thoughts here as well,
which is like, yeah, we have EVM,
but it does make me wonder because we have EVM,
we have Ethereum to start off,
and now we have a plethora of layer twos to consider.
Makes me wonder, right?
Did people choose EVM because it's the most efficient
or is it because it just so happens to be one
that captured the most mind share at the time?
Makes me wonder.
But yeah, Benny, you do have your hand up.
Let's go ahead and kick it over to you.
Yeah, sure.
I think I have a little bit different opinion
when the previous speaker mentioned about validators on Ethereum,
all institutions.
So we cannot verify that first of all. And second thing,
we don't know whether North Korean validators are beneficiary of the Ethereum transactions or not.
When we come to some enterprise-grade blockchains like XTC, XRP Ledger, or HBAR or other enterprise things,
most of them, when you want to become a validator,
all of them, they have certain KYC.
So based on our experience on XTC,
I think more than 50% of, 60% of network
are running by the institutional validators
or the regulated large players like SPI, SPI VC group in Japan,
telecom and different large market makers in crypto and TradFi as well.
So yeah, when it comes to the verifying those things,
already we have the KYC documents of those validators on chain
and already provable and is public.
Do you think there's actually scenarios, Benny, where builders, sorry, not builders,
do you think there's scenarios where consumers may actually prefer to rely on institutional
validators?
Because I'm thinking about centralized applications,
but I think there's a lot of crossover
and overlapping thoughts here regarding validators.
Get your quick thoughts on this,
and then we pass it over to Sheldon.
Actually, it depends, right?
So we've been talking about general purpose chains
or some specific focus chains on, I don't know, enterprise RWS.
So it depends on the environment that we are talking about.
So in the case of XCC, it's really a need.
It was a need since the white paper and after the launch, and we are committed to that region so far as well.
committed to that region so far as well we believe that that is that has a type of kind of product
market fit for the governments and institutional players when they want to get on board because
these guys always take care care about the risk and risk factors when it comes to the digital assets
and crypto products um yeah this is my opinion and when it comes to the XTC itself and the institutional place that
they want to run validators. And one important factor, another important factor here is most of
those institutions are running validators through the custodians, right? So that's really important.
Basically, custodians are, in my opinion, are hardware companies that they are securing your private key in a very regulated way.
And it's better than ledger or metamask or whatever things that you're, it's so advanced technology, right?
HSM devices, et cetera.
When it comes to the security or the risk for them, they always choose those custodians to run validators or doing some sort of transactions.
And we've seen that when it comes to the RWA usage as well.
So they prefer to keep it on the custody, regulated custody, not every custody.
So that's the important factor.
Like Pitco and Hooper and a lot of others that's already on XTC as well.
Wow, this is actually quite fascinating to me, Benny. The idea that custodial service providers
are synonymous with hardware companies and the fact that they actually secure the keys
better than we do. We've all heard this saying like a million times, right? Not your keys, not your keys, not your crypto. But it's actually funny because now
in hindsight, yeah, we are not the we're not exactly the best protectors of our own crypto,
it seems at the end of the day. But it just goes on to show depending on what you're doing,
there definitely is a scenario where both centralized and decentralized custodial
services versus self-custody can be more advantageous.
But that note, Sheldon, you got your hand up. Let's pass it over to you.
Every space is where someone else besides me brings up hardware security modules is a good space.
So appreciate the mention for that.
Personally, I like to say not your keys, not your cheese,
because there is a whole world of enterprise level risk that's managed by third party keys.
If you guys didn't know, there's a well-known breach in cybersecurity when employees at Ring,
a company that was bought out by Amazon that has all these little like video doorbell monitor things,
employees at Ring were checking up on their neighbor's doorbells and violating the terms of service of the company
because there was no segmentation or encryption between that data and what they had access to.
So there definitely is a position we should and could consider that enterprises have more
experience managing keys at a very high level of risk, but there's still plenty of stories about
how they absolutely mismanaged that risk and made irresponsible business decisions.
I would say Oracle and CrowdStrike have been famous for that due to one CTO who likes to save money by kicking out DevOps budgets,
basically saying that the stuff that goes before the code reaching production is not that important.
We could just kind of live without it.
That's part of how that big CrowdStrike bug happened not that long ago, took down half the planet. So there's a definite
understanding of liability and risk in a programmatic fashion that's backed up by law when
you work with enterprises. But there are still risks. And that doesn't mean that they're
infallible. And that's not what Benny and nobody here is saying. But I think it's important to
recognize that when you only have access to consumer-grade devices, you don't have, let's say, error correcting code or ECC RAM to
make your life a little bit more stable and easier. You have to make smarter design decisions.
So I think that there are very, very reasonable arguments to say, hey, custodians should have
legal liability. If they're operating in a country, which every human does, then they
have to have some connection with the law and so on. But also there's an entirely different angle
for business-oriented blockchains. And I want to play that into my comments before just a little
bit, because I was very excited about Cardano back in the day being a blockchain that would
specialize in businesses. And I said, does this mean they're going to do SAP integrations or they're going to support other
complicated enterprise level tools with cluster scaling and all kinds of cool stuff?
And obviously some of those critical features like Ouroboros did not make it past those peer
reviewed papers, but the same problem kind of was elucidated, which is that the specialization of a blockchain can't be business
in general. It has to be a certain type of business. And I think this is a lesson learned
through Hyperledger. And it's one of the reasons why Zinfin has sort of morphed and evolved into
what it is today. Because if you take Hyperledger as is, whether you're looking at Stellar or some
older IBM implementation, you'll see that it's an event manager and it's not designed necessarily for public services.
It's designed for private services, usually between different entities within the sort of same scope of risk or same scope of business that they do together.
So there is a very reasonable argument to pick the enterprise custodian who has legal liabilities.
But on the other side of that, I would want an asset issuer or a DAP developer or an infrastructure provider to have other liabilities and not be so stuck in the way where they're thinking about the law as their first point of orientation.
Because before the ICO boom in 2016, that was just not a thing in crypto.
We knew that the law would come for us someday.
We knew that the law would have its ups and downs,
but we always focused on building
the cryptographically valuable product first.
And I think that that's not lost on people,
whether they're specializing
or generalizing their blockchain.
There's always a focus like,
hey, is our first target to be legally compliant or is that a secondary requirement that we want to meet to reach people in more markets?
Man, that's amazing stuff, Sheldon.
I think personally for myself, as an end user, I think when we kind of start off, we don't really consider like, oh, am I going to take this on the business level or is this on the personal use level? I do feel like most people kind of
gravitate towards these businesses, sorry, not businesses, like centralized applications,
these custodial service providers, just because it gives us that layer of accountability. It gives
us that layer of insurance to an extent, right? After all, if it's our keys and we lose it,
then for the most part, we're kind of we're kind of out of options.
There might be some things we can do to kind of recover that.
But if we have our holdings with a company we have or with like with any kind of centralized application, there is there is that layer of like lean back.
That's such that if something extreme does happen, maybe the app will not not rug us.
And maybe the app will actually come and compensate us to that extent angus go for
it and yeah just a quick follow-up from us um you know basically you know with the launch of the etp
today um you know we have custodial um relationships with bitgo with fireblocks, with Copper, Anchorage is soon to come.
We have Archex, all highly regulated entities.
Either they've got banking licenses or they have specific licenses for what they're doing.
So that comes with the same, you you know they've done their due diligence um and
yeah uh if if i want to part my xdc i'll park it with one of these guys um so uh yeah and then
you know once it comes after that whether it's exchange traded products or anything around that um but yeah we're working with the best um
but exactly to the previous speaker's point um yeah it's uh yeah not your keys not your coin
get that um but you know i lost my private keys a few years ago, and it cost me a lot of money.
So I go back to, yeah, TradFi.
So, yeah, I would much rather my money be parked with Nomura, Standard Chartered, State Street, Fidelity, because I know it's safe.
And if I lose my password um i can get it back so maybe i'm a trad fi guy gone web3 um but it's just kind of the way i see the world
yeah man i'm learning so much with this conversation you guys you know like
traditionally we've been taught you your keys, not your coins,
but now we've got to add a line
to this designation
before we get normies in.
Not your keys, not your coins, sure,
but it's contingent on the fact
that you can actually truly
watch over your own coins
because if you don't know
what you're doing,
then you may as well.
You may as well rely
on custodial services and enterprises
because they know more than we do.
But bringing things over to a close, I'm going to hand the mic back to my co-host, Benny.
Benny, first of all, as per usual, can you share with us some of your closing thoughts for today's space?
And secondly, what are some upcoming updates going on with XCC that we all need to be paying some more attention to?
all need to be paying some more attention to. Sure, perfect. I think this space today I learned a lot
on the cost to decide and etc and different things that different speakers mentioned. So it was very
good. Thanks for everybody for giving out this information. So I believe Angus mentioned a few
of them but for his conclusion before I pass it back to Angus again
for covering those again, I have a few things to mention.
So on the DeFi side and on-chain activities,
we are actively looking for yield sources that really
helps us to create structured products.
On top of that, that can be consumer-facing for the institutions
and the DeFi users as well.
So these are the common things that we are working on.
And it's not some sort of news that I can say
this is sort of announcement,
but these are some progress that we are making
on the on-chain activities
to boosting up the liquidity on-chain and different criterias
that we have.
So these are the major things from my end in terms of the progress.
I would like to pass the mic to Angus and he can update us about the coming stuff that
we are going to hear for the next week or two about the ETPs and the different markets.
And I'm sure there are some
more updates as well so over to you angus you know perfect finale uh benny um yep um yeah i think the
not just xdc is growing uh the market's growing um you know we've been waiting for this bull market
growing uh the market's growing um you know we've been waiting for this bull market um and the
cyclical uh flip from uh bitcoin into alts um i think we're going to see that over the next three
months but uh that's just my view but it's not just my view it's the view of our biggest market makers.
So, yeah, I think the market is going to get interesting for altcoins in the run-up to year-end.
You know, right as you say that, Angus, I look to my other monitor here, I see this massive green candle that's absolutely popping off. You know, the bands have been open.
Things are looking good.
Things are looking good.
I didn't realize that there's still another leg up here for us here in this year.
But hey, maybe you guys are right about this.
So looking forward to that.
Looking forward to what XTC is building in conjunction to the bull market.
Maybe the tail end of it, we don't really know.
But, you know, history doesn't always repeat, but it sure as heck does rhyme.
But that being said, ladies and gents, this will mark the end of our space for today.
Once again, thank you so much to all of our awesome panelists for coming in with your thoughts and chiming in on today's subject matter.
And of course, thank you folks in the audience for all the likes, comments, and retweets.
We really do appreciate all the love and support.
One last time, make sure you guys check out the pinned tweets up top before we close things out.
But also make sure you guys are following the XCC House account.
And remember to turn on those notifications so you guys don't miss out on any of the latest updates.
But until then, this is going to be Ice and Benny signing off.
And we'll see you guys in the next one.
Peace.
