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Instant TXs: Too Fast for Security?
Recorded: June 3, 2025 Duration: 1:01:42Space Recording
Short Summary
In a dynamic discussion, crypto leaders unveiled major developments including Maverick's $3 billion RWA tokenization project with Multi Bank and Mag Group, and Soulbound's upcoming IDO sale. The conversation highlighted the importance of security in fast transactions, the potential of AI in fraud detection, and the ongoing evolution of decentralized finance.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you're at in this crypto world.
My name is Cody and I will be your host for today's episode of Xtalks.
I apologize for the late start, technical difficulties this morning, but I think we've
got them all ironed out.
We've got our speakers that are joining us as well.
Just give me just one more second to make sure I've got everybody up on stage that needs
to be here.
So give me one more second and we'll kick this thing off. Thank you. All right.
I think we've got everybody up on stage that needs to be here.
Invites have been also sent out as well.
So thanks, everybody, for tuning in.
If you're just tuning in, my name is Cody.
I'm the host of today's episode. We are definitely joined by a good group of guys that we have had on previous spaces. So they're definitely OGs and we're also joined by somebody new. So let's go around the horn and introduce each other. Let's start with Maverick. Go for it.
let's start with Maverick.
Go for it.
Hey, guys.
Alex Davis here, founder of Maverick.
I'm in the process of getting out of the house
to drive my daughter to an after-school lesson,
but I'll be with you from the car.
So it's great to be back with you first.
Having us again.
Maverick is a Layer 1
specifically designed to integrate
real-world assets with DeFi.
And as such, we've built an interoperable RWA token standard that works with three different
like RWA DEXs and lending, borrowing and oracles in a platform called Maven Finance.
We recently announced a $3 billion RWA tokenization project with Multi Bank, a major exchange
here in the UAE and Mag Group for Mag's
assets, which previously used to be with Mantra.
So it's quite exciting for us.
I'm happy to be here.
Awesome.
Thanks for being here as well.
Let's kick it over to a new face, Kinto.
Hopefully I'm saying that correctly.
Perfectly fine. Yes. Hi, my name is Victor, one of the three co-founders of Kinto.
Very nice to meet you all. Kinto is a layer two that settles on Ethereum mainnet. We are based
on the Arbitrum stack. However, we have made a number of modifications on top of this stack
to increase security from forcing account destruction upon every user,
basically giving them a Kinto smart account,
a smart contract wallet, that is a multi-sig by default,
and that adds a bunch of new security features
that I'm very happy to comment
as we go through the space.
However, that is only the technical side of Kinto,
because what Kinto has built in reality
is what we call the first modular exchange. All of the features that the centralized exchange is able to give you, plus many more,
including DeFi access, RWA access, meme coins, trading perps, et cetera, all without becoming
a honeypot, all with self-custody in your own wallet with that increased security that I
mentioned and with a usability that is extremely unique
from a point of view of both users and institutions.
We have a mining program going on at this time.
And I'll happy to start discussing
if transactions nowadays are too fast for security.
A spoiler alert, we believe they are not.
But nice to meet you all, and thank you for the time.
Awesome. Well, thanks for being here.
Looks like we've got Marcello who is going to be joining us as well as having some technical difficulties getting up on stage.
So as soon as he does get here, we'll allow him to introduce himself as well.
For those that are not familiar with what Layer 1x is, we are a Layer 1x
blockchain. We have built our own VM and consensus model from the ground up. We have our own Oracle
as well. And so we're able to go at the communication level a little bit deeper than most projects can when they go or solutions go when they go cross-chain, meaning that we can definitely go natively to EVM as well as non-EVM.
Definitely increasing speed and security while decreasing costs and non-decentralized kind of experiences.
So the owner owns the asset along with their data and logic across the board from A to Z
rather than giving that up to a third party.
So it's been very successful.
We're actually on to phase two of our upgrade to what we call Xtalk interoperability tech called quantum resistant.
We're adding into it as well.
So just another added layer of security.
So with that being said, let's jump into today's episode and get going. Let's see if we can get
Marcello up. He's trying for him a couple of
different accounts here.
I have a question.
You guys built your own VM?
Natively, are you guys
EVM?
Maverick is also not EVM.
It presents
its own unique benefits, but also unique challenges.
Yeah, yeah. So we've actually got dual. So we do have an EVM device, but we've also built our own
VM, which allows us to kind of have two different type of models that allows us to really
allows us to kind of have two different type of models that allows us to really be more
compatible with a lot of different ones.
And some of those challenges that you've talked about, yes, yes, we're pretty aware of those.
And that's why we're working off of two different VMs.
Wow.
So, yeah, looks like we got Marcello up go for it my friend let's go oh man i was
getting discouraged i'm like ah great here we go again we're getting rugged um we made it guys
i'm on my mobile phone now um quick introduction my name is marcello head of spaces here at soul
bound we are next generation television We're basically bringing streaming to
Web3, but a lot of other beautiful stuff too. Agentfy, Gamblefy, and obviously Streamify all in
one beautiful stack, one beautiful platform. We've got our TG coming up very soon. Currently got our
IDEO sale. If you're interested, check out our pinned post. And we've got a lot of cool features
coming as well. But thank you for having us, Cody.
Happy to be here and excited for the topic at hand.
Awesome. Thanks for being here as well.
So, yeah, you know, in Web3,
we're always talking about how we want more speed,
we want more interoperability,
we want more security,
and we want more interoperability, we want more security, and we want more decentralization.
It's definitely something that we've all
come accustomed to,
especially in the Web 2 space, is speed.
Sometimes security,
not necessarily security all the time,
but I know that people that are in Web 3 are basically, I don't want to say demanding it, but kind of have that set expectation of faster speeds and security.
a few weeks ago on another space that we had.
Figured it would be a great topic to kind of talk about
because I don't think a lot of people really do realize
that you can have speed and security,
especially when it comes to your transactions.
They don't have to be slow.
They don't have to be costly.
They don't have to have all of that extra stuff
that some of these solutions offer.
So we've assembled a great panel. And if you haven't done so, I highly recommend that you
guys give these guys a follow. They've taken time out of their daily schedules to kind of
participate into today's discussion. So please give them a follow um but yeah we've assembled a great great amount of
panelists for us to kind of discuss this today and i'm curious what the panel has to think i
think we've already heard cato's opinion on it but uh curious what do you guys think it does instant
transaction mean less security
mean less security?
Martello, go for it.
Just curious.
What do you mean?
Can you just define security?
Does that include decentralization?
Sure.
Or in my mind, it would.
But, you know, it doesn't have to.
But you can take it as in-depth as you want.
How about that
so bound go for it yeah for sure um very interesting topic i definitely think security is very important we were discussing the same thing or similar topic on another space just before this one. But yeah, overall, you know, I think when it comes to
speed and security, right, I definitely think there's a bit of a trade-off, right? I think
the last discussion was the difference between Elm 1s and L2s and the whole notion behind,
you know, how L2s typically are used to scale better, right? You want to improve transaction speed.
You want to reduce gas fees.
You want to make it more accessible for a lot of different folks.
The only thing is oftentimes, and not always, correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that as you make things simpler for a lot of folks, especially in L2 land, you are essentially making it more vulnerable
right for instance using a bridge to trade you know to bridge assets between
L1s and L2s automatically does does also increase the risk of malicious attacks
so there's a lot of different things that can be a double-edged sword I am
hoping that there are means of which,
obviously, making things more effective and, you know, reducing malicious attacks.
My understanding is, though, obviously, there is a bit of a trade-off, right? If you're trying
to maximize speed, trying to maximize accessibility for a lot of folks, you are essentially putting
a bit of more of a risk when it comes to security.
Then, you know, even like Maverick had raised the point,
you know, even just centralization, decentralization,
I would argue that, you know, even when it comes to following a more centralized model,
there might be more security risks.
I don't know.
At the same time, you know, if we do get, you know,
if we go down more the route of regulation and all this other stuff, would that make things more secure?
I don't know. That's another question to discuss.
But right off the bat, you know, on a surface level without all of the beautiful stuff that we want to,
when it comes to onboarding the masses,
essentially you are making it a bit more vulnerable to attacks.
So it's a bit of a double-edged sword.
I'm excited to kind of dive deeper into it.
I'm always, I'm definitely no,
I don't consider myself an expert when it comes to this stuff
or on a technical level, but I'm curious to learn from everyone else and kind of making yourself a bit more vulnerable than,
you know, considered following other alternatives.
Nah, great points. Definitely some good points. Let's hear what Maverick has to say.
So, Bound, I mostly agree with you on all those points there, except for one,
where I actually agree with you, but disagree at the same time. When it comes to bridges, you have that vulnerability of moving from, let's say, L1 to L2, L2 to L2, etc. If you use like shoddy bridges, for example.
But you also get that if you're a layer one bridging over from another layer one.
So the problem is not a problem with being in L2.
The problem is bridges in the risk vector that you were referring to.
If you actually have an enshrined, like one of the biggest problems with Ethereum layer twos is that Ethereum is not built to connect to layer twos.
to connect to layer twos. So you can build an enshrined layer two. It's what Maverick will be
So you can build an enshrined layer two.
doing, where effectively the layer one is built towards specifically to integrate with a layer two
that's built to integrate with a layer one. Imagine you have two space vehicles, right? You got like a
Soyuz from the Russians and a Dragon from the US, and you want them to dock together, right? Like
back in the day, effectively, it's think you're like duct taping them together,
but if they're built to dock together, then it works seamlessly.
So if you have like L one to L two bridges where they're intended to bridge
over,
there's really not inherent risk of bridging the assets over if they're native
to the L one and moving to a L two that is native,
that effectively batches his transactions back that L that I want.
That being said, there's a massive risk in centralization with L2s
and thereby it depends on security, how you want to view security,
because effectively the overwhelming majority of Layer 2s on Ethereum are centralized.
on Ethereum are centralized.
You might as well run them on AWS.
You might as well run them on AWS.
So I know we've, you know, Kinto,
I apologize on kind of attacking the vertical,
but the overwhelming majority of layer twos
run on a single node
and effectively have custodial keys.
That means the team can steal all users' assets
or at least withhold them from moving them.
So what do you consider secure?
That's why defining security is so important in this element here.
That being said, you can enshrine, you know, Vitalik talked about this,
you can enshrine a layer two to a layer one,
and that increases its security on numerous fronts
regarding not being a custodial layer 2,
as almost all are now,
and also in the bridging elements as well.
Yeah, you mentioned a couple of good things there as well
that I want to circle back on,
but let's shoot it over to Kinto real quick.
of those bridges which can be designed, as you mentioned, to be secure even on those operations
if they were designed for that piece. And there are many modern bridges really well designed.
We use, for instance, Socket, which one of the things that we really like is the fact that they
have different vaults for different assets in different addresses. So in case that it's making
it much harder to find all of those assets, hack them in a centralized manner against one only contract.
But first, I want to talk about that decentralization point.
Tinto is, in fact, the fifth chain ever and the first app chain
to become a stage one, precisely for what Maverick just said.
Because if not, you very well could have, you know,
a couple of founders have those keys
running every single contract on the network, including the validators themselves. Bakinto is
stage one. We have right now five validators running a properly set up security council,
and we were audited over months because our system of security, we include KYC and KYB on all the users.
The Security Council has the ability to stop the chain, of course, like in any other chain.
But because of the modifications that we did to the Arbitrum stack,
it took many months to get that stage one qualification
because the analysis was quite, quite long and quite hard, honestly,
for the L2B team that very consciously and for many, many months did that analysis.
But I agree with you.
Right now, the risk that comes in ferries with L2s comes precisely from that lack of decentralization.
back of decentralization. Many of the L2s that have many billions of dollars combined
are not decentralized entities. And yeah, I mean, you better trust the founders and the
holders of those keys, because if not, you could be very easily in trouble, right? And I think
we are already kind of seeing a pattern here with, I agree with Solventon Maverick in most of what they have said so far, but we are already seeing a pattern.
The issue is not the velocity or the speed of these transactions.
The issue here is the context, right?
The lack of security comes from other places.
And I think we have already identified a couple of them, right, on here.
identified a couple of them, right, on here.
Another one that for me is very obvious that comes with decentralization or not
is the fact of, I don't know, when you are using, for instance, a centralized change
or even centralized change like the altruism that Maverick was mentioning
is the fact that you can easily become a honeypot, right, as I was mentioning.
Here, inside Kinto, for instance,
and everything that you do on other chains
through Kinto or through the Kinto wallet,
that self-custody aspect is really important.
We have 85,000 plus users, all verified, all real,
no bots or no civil in here.
And all of them have their own wallets,
their own access points, and that is where the assets are.
So once more, if you were to try to attack any of those wallets,
you need to attack every single wallet on the chain
that is self-custody by default, that has those three signers
that you have to create when you join the chain among other things.
So I think kind of the theme so far has been,
yes, transactions can be extremely insecure, but has very little to do
with the speed of the transaction and a lot to do with the rest of the context.
Yeah, great points. So, I mean, a lot of people have been, you know, saying over the years that
it's, and it's not only just speed and security, but, say for access to Web3, you got to give up user experience.
You got to give up design, which is absolutely not true.
So in the same fashion, it's kind of the same way with giving up speed for security and for, you know, for speed, you have to
and vice versa.
Right.
And so, you know, that that's kind of like the mentality that a lot of people think are,
oh, it's got to be if it's slow, it's got to be good.
It's got to be it's doing its security kind of thing.
And for us, it's it's not that way.
We don't believe that by any means.
But, you know, I'm curious to your guys' thoughts.
I mean, for us, it's one of the reasons why we built a bridgeless cross-chain solution, interoperable solution, is because one of the risks.
the risks like to keep it high level, you know, for those that are listening, the more hands that
you have in the pot, the more mouths you have to kind of feed in a sense. And so a lot of times
in order to do these bridges and do some of these extra things to quote unquote add security,
it does add a lot of extra hands, aka extra contracts, extra executions into
the flow, which definitely raises the price of things. And so I'm curious to the panel's thoughts
on, you know, are we overcomplicating things? Are we making it too costly by trying to add in all these different types of, how's the best way to put this, conveniences like social logins, being able to complete transactions without having to sign, you know, things like that.
Go for it, Maverick.
I wanted to start off just, though, with the element that there is a trade-off between speed and security.
Like what Soulbound was originally talking about, but tying it into here.
If you look at, for example, Solana, who's gone down numerous amount of times,
and then also as recently as like a month ago, or a couple weeks ago,
as recently as like a month ago or a couple of weeks ago had a,
like basically like a zero day flaw that would allow for the unlimited
minting of tokens.
I think it was that needed to be patched.
Now look,
God bless them for pushing the envelope on,
on speed and what you can do with a blockchain.
But again,
you see that has,
that comes with inherent risks like the chain going down or having zero day bugs like like this or even not having, and again, all the power to them, but not having the
confidence to come out and say, guys, we're on mainnet now.
Keep that in mind.
They're still not on mainnet according to their own team.
So there is a trade-off between speed security and Kinto.
I'm really happy to hear that you have like a distributed validator set on that.
It's better than centralized, but still, I would argue, not as good as decentralized.
But when you're using an L2, you're trading off elements of security for that speed. You are effectively saying, I'm okay with my transaction being executed expediently
with the hope that it batches and goes and gets secured by the L1 before there's a problem.
Now, we haven't seen a cataclysmic collapse of such a system yet. We will at some point.
But there is that inherent trade-off that when you make that transaction, it's not complete.
And when you have that with L1s, you have L1s that are, you know, I would argue,
and Layer 1X, as you brought up in the later part of your point,
and I avoid getting a ticket in Dubai because there's a speed camera every 500 meters, that there is, when it comes to user experience,
we're overdoing this.
There's, you know, if you, like, at its average, Visa does about 2,000 transactions per second.
And it's very easy because you just tap to pay nowadays.
But we're overengineering blockchains without any demand.
And again, that's why I'm so happy to hear that Kinto's got, you know, it's almost like a niche app chain in that way.
It was almost in the same way as Maverick is as well.
We focus on RWAs and integration with DeFi.
But we've answered this UI UX problem.
You use an MPC wallet for essentially abstracting away private keys.
And you could build a gas station or even just airdrop some users, the beginning stages of the native L1, L2 token for gas.
So, yes, there are workarounds to these issues of user experience in blockchain.
We're overengineering the layer ones
because at the end of the day,
it doesn't matter if you can do 50,000 TPS
if you don't have a goddamn app on your chain
and you've got 15 users who are just staking your token.
You need to have products.
And that I think is the number one flaw in speed or security.
It's like, okay, well,
what are you actually delivering, speed or security, it's like, okay, well, you know, what are you actually
delivering the speed or security for? That, that to me is a, is, is a major question.
Yeah. Uh, that's definitely a good question. I mean, yeah, I mean, in order for any changes
to survive, they've got to have projects, they've got to have those transactions, but, uh, I mean, in order for any change to survive, they've got to have projects.
They've got to have those transactions.
But, you know, going back to your point of having speed over security, yes, there are a lot of different tradeoffs.
But, you know, like I said, you know, my original question, and you kind of answered it as well, was, you know, are we making it too complex on things?
Are we kind of adding in unnecessary vulnerability into creating a seamless user experience, right? So, I mean, I think that that seems to be one of the biggest ones.
You talked about that issue that happened where they minted.
There have been a couple of other issues over the last few months as well.
And it's starting to, I think, raise a lot of questions with people.
It's just that when it comes to speed and security, which one do they want more? And I'm often wondering if we're building to
appease the user desire and the feedback that they're giving us on these various things,
and we're caving to it, or are we kind of opening it up ourselves? So that was kind of the question,
so I appreciate it. We're building for VC, effectively speaking, the entire industry is building for VCs who want to, you know, effectively liquidate their assets as soon as possible and roll them into the next thing.
Unfortunately, that's the way that, you know, every project, most, a lot of projects have gone in.
But everybody wants speed until, and doesn't care about security until they need security and then it's too late.
That's a great way to put it. That's definitely a great way to put it.
So, you know, when it comes to this kind of stuff, I mean,
we've talked about implementing AI across the board to kind of facilitate
potential exploits. But when it comes to speed,
potential exploits but when it comes to speed could ai help increase the amount of speed without
reducing security Should I get lost there?
I don't know.
I was going to say something,
but I felt like I should give everybody else the stage.
Anybody want to tackle that one?
I guess it's just a one-on-one conversation.
Maybe.
Maybe.
I saw soulban unmuting.
That's why I didn't jump on that one.
So if Solban wanted to go just because he is powerless.
Everybody was being a gentleman.
I appreciate it.
I think so.
I think so to a point.
So Solban, if you want to go, I saw you unmuting.
Yeah, it feels like, you know, when you're at the restaurant and it's that time to pay the bill and it's like, no, I'll pay.
No, no, I'll pay.
Too polite, too polite.
Yeah, we're all gentlemen here.
Yeah, I would definitely say right off the bat, without being an AI expert, I think AI definitely facilitates a lot.
I think AI just makes things a lot simpler.
So I think when it comes to different things like predictive transaction optimization,
I think AI could help pre-simulate and optimize transaction path before submission,
which might help with reducing gas costs, failed transactions, network congestion,
and just make things a lot more
smoother as it could essentially predict what transactions would be coming. Obviously, nothing
is perfect, whether that would lead to any errors or not. That's a whole other discussion, whether
our AI is there or not, but that would be definitely something interesting. I think AI-assisted
sequencer monitoring, So, you know,
whether AI is monitoring different behaviors and L2s or app chains between censorship,
downtime, reorganization patterns, I think might help with, you know, being able to avoid any other
issues. This kind of creates like an early warning system to kind of avoid, you know,
blindly trusting some centralized infrastructures. What to kind of avoid, you know, blindly trusting some centralized infrastructures.
What else? I think, you know, fraud pattern detection is huge.
I think that would definitely avoid a lot of headaches.
If there's any means of avoiding any malicious attacks, suspicious bridge transactions, Oracle manipulation,
all the beautiful stuff that a lot of these
characters like to do I think having a good fraud pattern detection would avoid
a huge headache um what else I think also just you know network load balancing
and scaling so I think I could dynamically manage traffic across
different rollups subnets all that stuff to kind of minimize congestion,
I think would be helpful.
And yeah, those are just those are some different thoughts.
I think that AI could help facilitate with when it comes to improving transaction speed
and just avoiding a lot of different hiccups when it comes to all this stuff.
Definitely so, right?
I think on our case,
I believe it would be extremely helpful
to see products like this.
And we are using, for instance,
I'm sure you are familiar with them,
but Hypernative and Venn,
they do different things with AI
as you go on to creating those transactions.
Hypernative is really good at telling you
that something is wrong or could be wrong after the fact.
For instance, you can have a set of monitoring addresses
in both your L1 and your L2.
And if a hacker, as part of an attack,
is deploying contracts in advance,
that these quoting addresses or calling methods of your contracts,
let's say your bridges, right, and things of the sort.
If suddenly you see a spike of contracts out there
that are trying transactions against this contract
that have been deployed in the last block,
you will get alarms and things of the sort,
and all of that is AI-based.
And then you have Venn, which is a firewall essentially,
that is applied on the Kinto wallet as well,
that can pre-simulate those transactions.
And basically, if you're doing something
that is considered strange in the context of other transactions
that happens on the network, you can prompt the user
and tell them, this doesn't seem like a typical thing
that you would do on Kinto, right? like a typical thing that you would do on Kinto,
right? Or a typical thing that you as a user would typically do as part of your daily usage.
So I think on that basis, right? The pattern detection, fraud detection, there is a lot that
AI could do. I really like this idea of an AI essentially simulating,
comparing in a massive way in terms of what are you comparing it with,
every transaction on the network historically or recently,
and what a user usually does, what a user usually moves.
And at the very least, have an AI telling you,
hey, are you sure that this is what you want to do, right? And we have seen a lot of improvements on UI in terms of these kind of
simulations, understanding what a transaction will do before you do it, because that kind of
points to another aspect of it, right? And it is still way too easy to sign really harmful
transactions that the final user doesn't
understand, right? And we have seen this even by manipulating safe in recent attacks, even in a
multi-seed contest, tricking you into signing what you are not seeing. And in this case, we're much
more complex hack where you were tricking even what you were seeing on screen.
But having AI has been able to simulate those transactions in advance,
considering if this is logical or not based on your context,
both of the chain and of your own transactions,
I think AI has a role to play for sure.
But we are also going to be seeing plenty of AI attacks on that basis and plenty of social engineering produced by AI. So I'm not sure if this is going to be a net positive or a net negative.
I think right now AI is going to be used by the bad guys way earlier than by the good guys. So
I'm quite scared of the wave of scams AI powered
that could come at this time.
But definitely, I think AI will have a role to play.
And again, only by simulating, being
able to talk with the user in kind of a natural language
and tell them, look, this transaction will do this,
this, and this.
Is this what you intended?
Being able to stop them on their tracks when they are about
to make a mistake or follow for a scam, I think it's really powerful.
Quinto, you got me laughing at that AI fraud prevention thing, because now I'm just imagining someone tries to sign a transaction,
they're an avid DeFi user, and then they go and buy an NFT, and they're like, this looks like fraud.
Are you sure you want to do this? Because you've never done it before.
Imagine a clippy version of this, right?
The reality is that imagine how quickly
you will deactivate a clippy version of this.
This is why, again, unless you are extremely sure
that this AI is perfectly well-trained,
you have a problem, right, on these things.
There is a reason why we don't have it
and why others don't have this type of interruptions
on those transactions and other wallets
is because it's not ready.
I mean, you could very easily trick these AIs
and yeah, I would be the first one
that I would deactivate the clippy version of this
where, oh, are you sure you want to do this?
Yes, yes, I'm sure.
Leave me alone, right, on that part.
But I think, especially for newcomers,
there is a path, right,
on where the AI is useful.
But yeah, there is a dystopian world
with a clippy version of an AI coming to your wallet.
And yeah, I would be the first one to deactivate it.
Well, yeah, I mean...
However...
Yeah, go ahead, Leroy.
I was just going to say, however, that could be a good handy tool
because it could make it so that I could actually probably pull a profit in Web3
rather than losing it because of my investments in all these shit coins out
there. So I could warn you of like, are you sure you want to do this? Remember last time you went
in and you got wrecked on this meme coin thing. Oh, that's even worse with memory. It reminds
you of the last time that you were rock on that one. Yeah, that. Yeah.
I don't know.
I will have a very conflicted relationship with that AI, I'm pretty sure.
Oh, yeah, for sure.
Your AI bot comes at you now and it's like, listen, schmuck, you didn't sell last time.
Sell now.
You know?
That one could be useful.
You know, you said you would take profit last time.
Remember?
That one, maybe I would leave on. Yeah. That one I be useful. You know, you said you would say profit last time. Remember? That one maybe I would leave on.
That one I would leave on.
But, Kindle, you brought up...
Take your emotion at the door.
You brought up another interesting point is that, you know, most of the times when you're signing transactions and you have to, you know, you don't actually know what you're signing at all, right?
It's just a bunch of code that's thrown your way.
a code that's thrown your way.
So it could be really interesting for AI.
So it could be really interesting for AI.
I mean, obviously you can create a library for, you know, pre-vetted contracts.
Like if you're interacting with Aave or OpenSea or, you know, MakerDAO or Sky.
And that's one thing.
But for newer projects that might not be whitelisted yet, you could use the AI to like read the
code to see what you're doing and then easily explain it to you.
It's like, hey, look, like this doesn't do what you're thinking it's going to do,
please double check it.
And the other aspect of it, and depends on how you have it installed,
but it's interesting as well.
If you are in the context of this can generate something where you are looking at the UI,
let's say that you are claiming your daily rewards on Kinto,
which is one of the most typical
operations a user does every single day.
If you are on that page and you are generating that transaction,
and suddenly for any reason that transaction is not
doing what the UI was saying it was going to do,
I think the most interesting KIs are going to be
looking at what are you actually seeing on the interface,
and what the transaction actually does on the background
and trying to match those.
Because the moment that you are on the claim rewards page,
but this transaction does something different.
What happened here?
And having AI kind of trigger an alarm on things like that
where you are being misled, I think there is a lot to be said.
The problem on this is that these AI's
are going to get things wrong, and veterans
are going to stop them from helping you very, very,
very quickly on that piece.
So it is tricky to implement right.
And I think the warnings will get really, really annoying
unless you get them right.
But I really like that second idea,
going onto the contract, look at the function and translate, you know,
solidity to human, human to solidity.
Tell me what this function is really doing and is not doing what you expected.
I think it's definitely powerful.
So a role to play for sure. Are we there? Probably not.
Sadly, the scammers will get there first.
And yeah, I think we're going to see a couple of interesting kind of a battle, right?
A very long battle between AIs on trying to help the users navigate these spaces and others.
Yeah, I totally agree. I think in my mind, it would be awesome to have it as well where the AI could step in and evaluate the contract or even the developer wallet that is associated with it as well to see if it's been in any exploits or contains any exploited stuff.
any exploited stuff, or even if the contract, or excuse me, the wallet has been associated
with anything in the past, kind of as a word of caution as well.
It'd be nice to have that.
It would also be nice to, I've heard people say that it would be nice to be able to reverse
or at least hold to verify the wallet address you're sending stuff to.
So I think there's lots of different opportunities still to be had to add security in there to
still keep the speed and, you know, the security minimum bar at least there, if not exceed
minimum bar, at least there, if not exceed that expectation.
that expectation.
You know, there's still brings up a lot of the different issues around the around Web3.
Marcello might be the one that kind of answered this one more since he's kind of a streaming gaming DJN guy.
But, you know, when it comes to the gaming aspect of it, there's tons, tons of little
transactions that technically could be happening, are happening behind the scenes that are going on.
You know, I guess my question then to apply to the rest of the panel is just like, you know,
if we look at the speed, if we look at the speed, if we look at the security,
if we look at the ease of use,
what other industries are you guys seeing in
your guys' respected spaces that do require high speed rate,
that definitely has a little bit
less security associated with it, I guess.
One that comes to my mind is potentially, you know, something around like streaming kind of aspects, that kind of stuff.
That's kind of where my head's going.
Yeah, I'll jump in here. Repeat the question, like the security risks around streaming?
Yeah, like, you know, what kind of industries are out there that require high speed outputs, but, you know, maybe focus a little bit less on the security side of things?
Sure. I don't know how much I could speak on in terms of the security side of things.
I'm trying to think in terms of streaming.
You know, I think for sure you want to make things as accessible as possible.
What we're doing on our end, so for instance, at Soulbound, we run a deep-in powered network
where I think a lot of the traditional streaming platforms do run things on a centralized server,
which on a security front, obviously, when it comes to centralization,
if ever they're at risk of anything, any malicious attacks, then we're all at risk.
Running a decentralized, deep empowered network, the the powers in the hands of the people right it's in
power the powers in the hands of the community that is powering the network through our decentralized
nodes so right off the bat you know when i think of you know malicious attacks uh that are attacking
powered uh you know centralized power networks there's definitely that huge risk at play so
i think right off the bat what's really cool about Streamify and a lot of platforms like ourselves at Soulbound,
we're really focused on trying to, you know, obviously you can make everything decentralized.
There needs to be some level of things, but I think we're really trying to follow that route,
especially when it comes to powering our servers, our network, and all that stuff.
So I think that right off the bat, that's definitely a security measure that could be
done.
And a huge difference between Web2 land and Web3 is that with the beautiful power of
Deepin, you can power your own network amongst your own community.
And not only that, security is a huge piece of that, but also just
being able to reward your users for powering the network and for being contributors to the whole
thing rather than just being a passive user on the back end, whether you're using Twitch, Cake, or
whatever traditional streaming service. So yeah, I think that's one that comes off the top of my
mind when it comes to security.
Okay, makes sense.
Yeah, thanks for sharing.
Maverick, go for it.
Well, I think when it comes to everything AI, I think we're overlooking, you know,
when was the last time you heard anything about AI and security, to be fair, right?
Think about how much data we're feeding into Chat, GPT or quad or, you know,
doing all these like face swap videos.
Think about how Meta's working on AI.
I can't call it Meta.
Facebook's working on AI.
And they have access to all your photos,
your Instagram, your WhatsApp.
And so when it comes to security and that, I mean, it's not really blockchain related, but when it comes to security and that's,
I mean, it's not really blockchain related,
but when it comes to security in that aspect,
I think we're leaving ourselves extremely vulnerable overall.
Because imagine someone gets a hold of your ChatGPT data,
your Facebook data, your Instagram data,
gets into your phone.
Think about all the data that you're handing over to TikTok, which is is why i don't um allow it on any of the phones in the
family it's uh you're you're at major risks across the board given our capabilities of ai today i
mean look it's not exactly there's ai implemented into it but like look at what happened when uh in ukraine right or
in russia i should say executed by the ukrainians so there are attack verticals that we haven't even
begun to dream of yet outside of like hollywood plot movies that we're at risk for
uh you bring up a of a trigger within me because that's my old wheelhouse of things, right?
And so, you know, you mentioned how much data we're freely giving up.
I wholeheartedly agree with it, right?
And it's not even data that we're necessarily directly giving up to these different social media platforms as well.
I've worked with social media over a decade ago with AI integrated into it even back then.
And you'd be shocked at the level of AI capabilities even over 15 years ago.
even over 15 years ago.
And yeah, it is a real ethical kind of dilemma
that not only do we have to face as human beings on this earth
that are working and using these different features and software programs,
but it's also from an ethical standpoint of the business
of how much data do we really need,
what data do we really need,
and how should we be using this data?
And yeah, a lot of people don't read the fine print
when they connect to different things,
and they just freely, really give up data behind the scenes, but they're also giving up data, more data, in my opinion, on the forefront
of what they're posting, what they're stating, how they're stating it, what their images are
they're posting. All this, a lot of times, is public data that can be scraped, analyzed, and basically
processed into a nice neat little folder. And when I say that, I mean that that is actually happening
as we speak. So be careful what you post out there. Kintel, go for it.
Definitely. So now that you were mentioning access, another one that I remember from pandemic times and before crypto, I was doing decentralized video where I don't know if you recall where people was able to have adults with very bad intentions joining kids' classrooms, kids' private chats during the pandemic, right?
This is another example where once more a speed on how are you going to make everyone join into those classes, right?
With a very easy link that is generated for that class.
with a very easy link that is generated for that class.
And suddenly you find that not only the kids that are supposed to join that class
are joining those links, right?
And we worked at that time with a video conferencing system
that had to control access for universities and corporate universities
and things like this.
And funny enough, right, you had a school, K-12,
a school for instance, asking for us to remove
some of the bypassing that goes into the logging process,
authenticating, having a 2FA, even biometrics, right?
We were one of the first of using passers at the time.
So all of those things,
you realize how they wanted us to remove it because a lot of kids or a lot of parents were
having issues logging the kid in the morning for their classes. We always refused to remove it and
to make it easier on those things because it is really easy to have access bypassed. And in the
case of crypto, we're mentioning before social accounts
and things of the sort.
We do have social accounts,
but never is the only one on your signers.
And in here is something very similar, right?
You need to have more than one factor of authentication
when you are dealing, for instance, with miners, right?
And yes, it's something that complicates the product.
It adds friction to the login process, et etc. But they are absolutely mandatory to have. So this is an example that I recall, for instance, during the pandemic, it was quite bad. And we saw plenty of bad actors using these kind of vulnerabilities on video platforms with no various intentions, to the point where some of these systems
remove private messaging, right, one-to-one,
so you only could text and have communications on the group environment
because they were afraid of cases of abuse, et cetera,
through those ends, right?
So there is a pretty dark forest out there if you are an adult.
If you are a kid, this is even more scary
on what can happen to you on that dark forest, for sure.
Yeah, and, you know, as of late, since we've been working on quantum-resistant technology and
security, I've been going down some pretty deep personal educational type of rabbit holes on quantum computing and quantum security type of stuff.
And if you guys want to go down a mind-blowing kind of thing, I know it's still a few years off,
but still it's something that we've got to start preparing for and kind of start
educating ourselves on is this whole cubic thing that these quantum computers go off of is just
amazing. And the amount of computational type of speeds that they can do and the amount of energy
and all this kind of stuff that is used for these things, it'll take, you know, it'll take a simple,
you know, wallet, password, secret phrase, you know, all these different things and basically
compute it to the point where it's cracking the nut here in just a few hours, few days kind of
thing where it would take years to kind of hack through those in the future. So
I think that it's something that we need to kind of think on the forefront. It will become a thing
down the road, but might as well start preparing ourselves for it now so that we can be on top of
it for when it does come. Because like Kinto said, having AI starting to be used in hacks and exploits and things like that is definitely on the rise.
And it's something that we need to be mindful to as well.
But yeah, I wanted to thank all of our panelists.
We're almost at the top of the hour.
I want to respect your guys' time, but also give you guys a chance to do a quick outro, drop some alpha.
We always love alpha.
Likewise, thanks to all of our people that have tuned in to listen.
We appreciate you guys.
We couldn't do these spaces without you.
And if you guys happen to have any topics that you want to hear about in the future, definitely drop them in the comments below.
We will bring those up and try to get those topics out
at a later future.
Appreciate our panelists taking time out
of their busy schedule.
Definitely give them a follow.
It's been a good discussion today.
We appreciate it.
These types of deeper rabbit hole type of topics
sometimes do warrant a little bit more time to go in depth just because there's not
enough time to go as much as in depth as I wanted to, but it's still a good topic to
cover and to get us talking about.
So with that being said, let's start with Soulbound.
Take us out and we'll kind of keep going around the horn.
Yeah, no, this was a great discussion.
I encourage everybody in the audience to give everybody here a follow. And we'll kind of keep going around the horn. Yeah, no, this was a great discussion.
I encourage everybody in the audience to give everybody here a follow.
And, yeah, I'll just leave it at that.
I know we got our TG coming up very soon.
I mentioned that earlier, but I'll leave it at that.
Thank you for having us, Cody, and awesome panel.
Awesome, thanks.
Let's go with Kinto next.
Yeah, no, I wanted to thank you for the time. Amazing discussion and quite varied in topics.
If you want to see some of the security applied in
the real world and more to come,
take a look at Kinto.
We are at kinto.xyc,
create your wallet and take a look on those pieces.
And yeah, quite amazed uh on the
on the discussion hope to be back and thank you both to the speakers and to you layer one x to
organizing and to have us have a great day yeah uh welcome back anytime on any of our spaces we
appreciate you coming uh maverick, take us home.
Oh, wow.
Yeah, you know, it's interesting.
You know, Soulbound, you brought it up and my marketing team's always like,
Alex, let them know we've got our TGE
and sex listing coming up soon.
So got to do a better job of speaking about that
and not just the tech and business side.
But yeah, Maverick, we're building a whole layer one
for integrating real-world assets with DeFi. We we've got three billion going up to ten actually from Mag
Group and you'll be able to go in and buy a fractional piece of a hotel or
managed apartments and just earn yield directly to your wallet so you'll be able
to do so with a new RWA exchange launching on multibank.io so make sure
to check us out we should be having a sex listing by the end of the month,
early July.
And,
and as always layer one,
so a pleasure being up here with,
thankfully knowledgeable and not shilling guests.
It's wonderful.
Like,
you know,
it's great to be up here with,
with someone,
especially as a layer two,
like Kinto and who knows what they're talking about or not just,
but my,
but my L two, you know?
So I'm always a great crowd.
I definitely agree with you on that one, man.
It's fun because then you can take the conversation a lot, lot deeper than you can at face value.
So I appreciate you guys as well being here along with Kinto and Sellbound.
For us, dropping some good alpha.
If you haven't heard, we are dropping our Quantum DEX.
It's a multi-chain DEX.
But more importantly, our zero-interest DeFi loans, which allows immediate liquidity for any project token.
So if you launch it, you can get up to basically 2 million in liquidity potential for your
token to become tradable immediately that gets listed right on the Quantum Dex as well. So if you want to learn more about
that, go to l1xapp.com. And from there, you can click on the link that says Quantum Dex and learn
all about what it is, how it works, how to apply for one. Pretty, pretty cool. It's going to be
a game changer for a lot of people looking for liquidity, especially since VCs have their thumb up their ass. So anyways, all right, with that being said,
thanks everybody for tuning in and we will catch you on the next episode of Xtalk. Thanks and
keep working to unite all of crypto. We'll talk to you later. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Thank you.
Bye everyone.
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LayerOneX
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