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Intersection of DeFi & AI
Recorded: April 22, 2025 Duration: 0:55:31Space Recording
Short Summary
In a dynamic Twitter space hosted by Somnia, industry leaders discussed the launch of innovative projects like Automato and Standard, the integration of AI in DeFi, and the evolving landscape of self-regulation in the crypto sector. With insights into emerging trends and strategic partnerships, the conversation highlighted the future of finance as a collaborative effort between technology and human expertise.
Full Transcription
Hey everyone hey hey everyone okay can you please request to speak but the speakers for today please. Okay. Hey everyone.
Hi Tim Chick, I've been seeing you around tweeting about Somnia. Appreciate that. Hey everyone! Okay, standard, sorry, let me bring you on. Awesome.
Tomato, let's see. Okay, yes. Hello, hello everyone.
I always love seeing so many quiles in the crowd. The art is just freaking amazing.
Okay.
Let's do a bit of a sound check.
Okay.
What matter do you want, actually?
Oh, timeline.
Hey.
Hi, can you hear me?
Yes, awesome. Can you hear me? Yes.
Awesome.
Can you hear me clearly?
Perfectly.
Awesome.
Oh, come on.
Tomlin, you're also on.
Yep, I'm in.
Awesome.
Tomlin, can you say something just to check we're good with the sound?
Hi, everyone.
Hey, awesome.
Okay, so we can kick it off.
Hello, everyone.
Welcome to Somnia's ecosystem space.
Today, we'll be talking about the intersection of DeFi and AI. I'll be your host, Alexa. I'm head of operations at Governance at Somnia. I do all ops, legal, people, finance, ecosystem, grants,
loads of stuff and loads of fun. And I'm super excited about the space today. So let's kick off with a quick round of introductions.
Dylan, do you want to kick it off?
Hi, sure.
So nice to talk to you, Alexa.
So I'm Dylan, co-founder of Automato.
So I've been working in this project for the last year,
plus plus, and about to launch.
So you want me to introduce Automato quickly or later?
We'll do that a bit later.
Okay, sure.
Okay, awesome.
Yeah, that's about it.
Awesome, thank you.
Tamlin, do you want to go ahead?
Tamlyn?
Hi, I'm sorry.
Yes, awesome.
Okay, guys. So, yeah, my background is energy derivatives trading, actually.
That's my professional background. I've been building DeFi since 2018, and I really strongly believe, you know, crypto and blockchain systems are the future of finance.
Yeah, that's me.
Awesome. Great to have you here.
Houston, go next, please.
Hey, I'm Youngsook. I'm South Korean.
People call me Kang because my name is hard to pronounce.
I'm the founder of Standard, which is a fully unchained central limit order book.
And I make also like AI agent projects on top of it. We call it like a Haifu.fun. It's like a DeFi waifu launchpad where AI is just
packaged as like a waifu and then gives financial analysts and some automated trading on my
central end-order book decks. So I'm looking forward to learning a bit more about it.
So I'm looking forward to learning a bit more about it.
Great.
So what I usually really like to hear are the stories of how people got involved in Web3.
I think that everyone has their own unique story and sometimes you can learn and hear
some extremely interesting stuff.
Tell me, what was your journey into Web3?
Yeah, great question. I actually was born in Africa and spent a lot of time there in my
young adulthood, really learning how the sort of transformation of technology was essentially transforming the business world of
Africa and particularly in Malawi which is where I was from and I was very interested in how like
mobile phones and internet were really making a difference but how finance still kind of needed its moment to allow that
leapfrog effect. And basically, I saw blockchain as offering that because it's these open systems.
And open systems and open accessibility is super important for people who don't necessarily have
all the right documents to tick all the right boxes,
but still need to access risk management protocols
or lending protocols and so forth.
And so DeFi is incredibly exciting to me for that reason,
and that's how I got into it.
Awesome. Thank you for sharing.
Dylan, how did you, what happened to you and you went down the Web3 Rep tool, the point of no return ever, ever again.
like eight years ago,
been hanging out with a lot of like entrepreneurs,
founders and stuff.
Then I met one of my previous co-founders,
Kevin from the podcast, When Shift Happens.
We created this podcast together,
make it like quite famous now,
interviewing a lot of like crypto founders
from all the ecosystem and stuff.
And after a year and a half building this podcast,
I met Clement, my co-founder, at an event.
We discussed, he was like, okay, I do all those bots,
all those interesting stuff on DeFi and only for me.
And then we were like, okay, we need to bring this to everyone.
And that's how we created Automato.
And that's how I become like a co-founder of this protocol.
So that's the journey in like a few lines.
Okay.
Super interesting.
Hussan, would you like to share your story into Web3?
Yeah.
So I joined Web3 in 2017 back then I was researching on IOT for security
IOT devices in the network so I mean just working with the network just
brought me into like a book called mastering Bitcoin and I've been just
thinking about the blockchain since then and then I joined a small conserving firm, just working on the Ethereum smart contracts.
I used to have like five Bitcoin, but then I'm pretty sure I just used it for something else, which is sad.
Other than that, one of the interesting things about me is that I used to work with Doquan.
He was building this algorithmic stablecoin and asked me to write this reviving basis
that I own in like 18 hours, being like an internal company hackathon.
So I kind of built it for him.
What he literally did was to put his USB into my computer, took it out and then put it into
his computer and then come in as DeFi rig.
And I never, and I said that not to launch it, but then he launched it and then went fundraising
and never gave me credit.
So I was like, okay, if I cannot responsibly manage
this project or do something else to stop him,
I would just go out and then find a company
where people have standards.
So that's how Standard Protocol was born.
And yeah, now I'm sitting here helping Coindesk to catch Doquan with the other former employees.
And I'm now trying to start the new chapter in DeFi with more self-sovereignty and genuity in the end.
Yeah, setting up standards.
Wow. with more self-sovereignty and genuity in the end, setting up standards, yeah.
Wow. I mean, it's kind of like, not really a nice story,
but impressive how, like, where it took you
in the turn of events.
Okay, well, we're super excited to see standards
on the testnet and very, very much looking forward to it so now let's
get into why we're here today let's talk about the projects and would you like to share a bit about
standard and what is it what does it do what how it makes the defy ecosystem different
DeFi ecosystem different?
So many DeFi projects call out that
liquidity fragmentation is the biggest problem of the DeFi
and they're trying to solve it within the frame of
within the box of this AMM. But then
if you really want to solve the problem, you have to think outside of the box.
As a matter of fact, AMM's Uniswap has less than 20 days where its volume exceeded its TVL, meaning that the difference between the TVL and volume is just unused capital, aka the liquidity fragmentation.
And then Uniswap is doing nothing to fix it up.
And as a former stablecoin developer,
Uniswap's trading methods are just too fragile
and too volatile to maintain the stablecoin pegs or some constructive financial
strategies. So I had to come up with something that could just solve it, which kind of works
as like a traditional finance does so that many traditional financial firms can actually come in.
And that's how we pivoted standard from stablecoin to fully unchained CLOP itself, trying to be like an unchained sex, decentralized Binance or Coinbase.
And then who knows, I'll try to make a new stablecoin, new US dollar, I guess.
And that's pretty much it.
And yeah, for the detail, you can ask me questions.
Awesome.
And you also mentioned earlier,ifu we call it internally
haifu waifu and do you want to share a bit about that project oh yeah so you know as um if you run
on like a centralized exchange you need this like a market making bots or market makers right
but then we wanted to decentralize it so that people can join and
then have some benefits of doing something market making together so i have started to make a i mean
all mms try to go with the trading bots and we have people of friends who are trying to make one
so i was like trying to market it as like a robot called standard x but then no
one was actually picking up um so i've started to switch the branding into waifu where 80 percent
of demand is in crypto i mean if you go to any crypto nightclub events in like blockchain week
you will see most of them are just men so i wanted to find some ai waifu for them so that they can relate so that's how haifu was born
and yeah we're seeing some good devs trying to cook and we expect that to be launched in
may with the all these animes uh studio that we have right now.
Yeah, even McDonald's are making anime too.
I mean, what a coincidence,
but we'll also have some anime series
for you guys to watch or some shorts
so that people can have fun, yeah.
Yeah, definitely HypoVive has a very
attention grabbing design.
It's really, really cool.
Do we have the Haifa profile here in the crowd to bring them up
so the listeners can follow?
Oh, yeah, sure.
We should definitely do that.
Yeah, I'll upload it here.
So, yeah, if you guys follow and then get into a wait list, just wait for it.
There will be good things happening in the next couple of months.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure definitely IFU will be Somnia and Standard too.
Yeah.
Awesome. We're super looking forward to it.
Tamlin, would you like to talk a bit about salt?
Yeah.
Hey, guys.
So salt really was born from the recognition
that most of the world's wealth is co-managed.
It's co-managed by humans with other humans at the moment, but also increasingly co-managed it's co-managed by humans with other humans at the moment but also
increasingly co-managed with algorithms or even AI so salt is a kind of co-pilot
system for portfolio management and it's wholly self-sovereign because owners of assets should not need to seed any private key material just to access this co-management infrastructure.
So that's how we were born.
In fact, there were a group of us setting up a liquid trading desk and we were looking for a solution.
We couldn't find it.
We did not like the walled gardens we didn't like the kyc we didn't like the expense of the other options out there and we're like this
is not the future the future is very open programmable public infrastructure that kind of stuff. And so, yeah, that's how we came about.
Awesome.
And what is your timeline in terms of, for example,
when the community can try it out in Somnia?
Yeah, totally.
So we are now live on Testnet.
We are very proud to say that we support Somnia Shannon
and you guys can check it out.
If you go to salt.space and then follow the links to our testnet, you can absolutely launch
an account.
You can hold the Somnia Shannon native tokens, you can transfer, you can set
policies. There's a lot you can do at the moment. The very power of Salt is that it's a very easy UX,
but it's a very powerful kind of programmable layer. So actually, we are the first, the world's first open MPC platform.
And that is very exciting to us.
And yeah, we're supporting Somnia from day one,
which is very exciting for us.
And for us too.
We are very happy to have you.
And Dylan, would you like to share a bit more about Automato? Sure. So in a nutshell, Automato is an automation infrastructure for Web3. It lets anyone
create, customize, or join like powerful on-chain automations. And when you add AI on top, we then call them agents.
It's like autonomous flows that think and act for you.
So everything runs through our no-code builder.
Think of it like an on-chain Zapier.
And if you're a bit technical, you can go even deeper
and create like low-code and bootstrap
like a full autonomous product in days.
So whether it's like optimizing yield, reacting to market
events, on-chain, off-chain, et cetera,
Automato make it simple.
So that's what we do.
And yeah, launching really very soon.
We are just like finalizing the testing.
And hopefully by end of this month,
we will start to communicate more about the launch
and onboarding more and more users to the platform
to get a lot of feedbacks.
Yeah, it's pretty exciting how you can get notifications
to your Telegram, to your Twitter, to Slack.
What other integrations do you have?
It's pretty dope, and it seems very easy to use
from what they've seen in the demo.
Exactly, yeah.
So with Somnia at launch, we will first support notification
and later on, hopefully, actions.
So for example, swaps and stuff.
But for the notification, this is a very powerful tool
that you can use, set, or just let you follow the process.
We have templates.
You just join them.
You add your Telegram your email your discord
whatever we integrated most of the of the of the tools even like uh slack yeah etc so you can just
like say okay this is my wallet uh we will read uh your wallet say okay we can see that you have, for example, some funds on AAV.
And then we will be like, OK, at any time AAV has an issue
or any kind of numbers goes up too fast, et cetera,
we can alert you to be like, hey, careful, this happens,
et cetera, et cetera.
So we will be able to alert you, to protect you,
to bring a lot of use case.
Or as simple as, for example, you just
want to have an alert on Telegram
for price goes up by 10%, then you get it.
So it's up to you what's the granularity of the notification
you want to set.
And then it's limitless based on what you need.
Good morning, notification. you want to set and then you can it's limitless based on what you need good morning notification your portfolio is bleeding do something about it exactly this has happened yeah and by the way we're talking about morning notification we actually designed
morning templates that is we sent ourselves basically it's just like every morning I get my Telegram message
with all the data I want.
So on my side, I do a lot of DeFi.
So I get all the yield of the protocol I'm interested in of the day.
And then I will get the gas price.
I will get a lot of on-chain information, off-chain information.
I just set everything. And every morning I receive my personalized on-chain information, off-chain information. I just set everything.
And every morning I receive my personalized on-chain, off-chain API newsletter.
It's really, really useful.
So looking forward to give it to everyone.
That's really good.
I'm thinking, oh, good morning, beautiful.
Like, your whole portfolio went shit while you were sleeping.
But enjoy the day.
Exactly.
Exactly.
That's the use case.
But yeah, definitely.
It's super, super useful.
Okay.
Thank you, everyone.
And to do like a quick reset of the room,
as I see that we have more and more people attending,
which is awesome.
Hi, everyone.
Welcome to another Somnia ecosystem, Twitter space. Today, we're talking about the intersection
of DeFi and AI. And here today, we have really awesome projects building on Somnia, Somnia
testnet, and it'll be on the mainnet, of course. So stay with us to listen, to learn more and give the speakers a follow.
So you're up to date with what's happening with the projects
and how you can get this awesome, good morning, beautiful texts
and, you know, take action on time.
We also have some team members here on.
John, Isaac, do you want to say hi?
Yeah, sure. John, I think I'll take the lead and then you can follow. But Isaac here. I'm the social media manager at Sumnia and it's good to have all this project on here and good to see
that we are getting an increasing number of people join these spaces. And I believe that there's a lot of value in it for everyone as you get more
insights into the kind of projects we are bringing on board. And we want to make sure everyone in
our ecosystem is happy and having fun with all of these games and all of these DeFi projects. So yeah, thank you.
Thank you. John? Yes, thanks for having me on. Happy to be here with everybody. I'm John. I
handle the content and communications for Somnia. And yeah, just excited to learn all about the
DeFi and AI projects that are coming on board.
And you have to be here, you don't really have a way out.
Joking, of course.
So I would just like to also say hi to Mehdi.
He is our in-house designer.
And I see also, again, like a more great Quill is
the lead Quill Hhog here hello be great to have you say hi after and
I see some people also requested to speak so before we like when we're done with the first
part of the space then we will leave some time over to come up and ask questions.
Okay, so I also see people here,
I saw some awesome stuff he did in the chat.
Really, really cool.
Great, so let's continue with our next questions.
What I would like to hear from you
is to get your perspective on what advantage
did you see in using AI to build your defactations?
Can you talk to me first?
Yeah, sure. So I guess at Salt, we're trying to build software that is like middleware between AI and liquidity or portfolios.
AI, it basically just superpowers us as humans. So it makes us faster, it makes us articulate
ourselves better, it speeds up development, it helps answer support questions, it is great at
data processing. And yeah, of course, our devs are using AI as their coding co-pilots.
But ultimately, at the moment, humans are still better at navigating certain aspects of building software.
So obviously, software isn't built in the vacuum.
Real world requirements are real.
real they're messy they're ambiguous they're evolving and us as humans it's our job to
They're messy.
They're ambiguous.
They're evolving.
interpret those you know interpret vague business goals into like it's up to us to read between the
lines so at the moment we do use AI internally in our processes but But ultimately, we rely on humans for things like UX design,
because like our UX designer has 22 years of building, you know, Wall Street applications,
and he's really strong at anticipating confusion or frustration, you know, designing delightful user flows. So that kind of empathy with different types of users
is very unique to humans.
And I guess building software at the moment is a social process.
All of that said, we are building software that acts as middleware
between AI and, you AI and human wealth.
And so we're always thinking about both sides of the equation.
Are you guys there?
I'm here.
Did we lose you, Alexa?
I heard that there was a little bit of static last time. We may have lost her temporarily. I'll try to contact her. Who was up next?
I didn't see she nominated anyone. Is this working now?
Yep. You're então não sei. Somnia Profile de Argumente.
Então eu continuo com a minha...
Não é legal.
Desculpe, qual foi a última coisa que você me ouviu?
Basicamente, você foi meio que estatico,
e depois algumas outras pessoas estavam falando, uh you kind of went static and then uh a couple other people were talking and then
uh we kind of got lost in the in the flow of thing
that's a great way to host the tweeter space okay um so it happens it's buggy
So it happens.
It's buggy.
Elon, hello.
Dylan, would you like to share your perspective on this?
Yeah, no worries.
You're back.
We can hear you perfectly.
I will say, sure.
I really, I'm really aligned with what Tamlin said actually about AI, about the fact that AI should not be,
I mean, it's really, really interesting when you combine AI and DeFi.
But the mindset that we have at Automato, it's not everything has to be AI.
When a flow is predictable, like for example, for us, like we do, we have a yield aggregator where we move funds to the best lending rate.
This is predictive.
So AI will just be unnecessary.
It will take a lot of resources, time and stuff.
So it won't be ideal for this kind of workflow because we can predict.
We can predict what's happening, et cetera.
We just need automation.
We just need software.
And that's what power our landing gear rates are.
But then things can get messy, can get unpredictable.
And now AI become really essential and become very, very useful.
And for example, imagine you're close to liquidation.
There is not one simple action.
The system might need to find like if you
want to rebalance automatically, this is like, for example,
a flow in agents that we will propose really soon.
The system will need to find some spare collateral.
So it will need to decide whether to bridge, to repay,
withdraw from another protocol.
There is like hundreds, thousands, like way of taking a decision.
And that's a complex, very complex decision tree.
And it can be pre-built with a static flow.
So that's where AI is really useful.
And so same with trading or reacting to
real world news. Like if the US suddenly announced a new regulation, whatever, you don't have time to
manually set a rule or predict that. So you need something that understands context and make fast
decisions. And that's where AI comes in and becomes very, very powerful to understand the context and take decision on your behalf
and then think, where sometimes you don't just need that.
You just need a software that takes decision for you
because you can understand, if this yield is higher than this
one, then I locate my liquidity.
That's as simple as that.
So that's where AI can be powerful. So our approach is really simple.
Use automation when flows are clear.
Use AI agents when the world throw KO at us, basically.
And prevent that good morning, beautiful message.
Exactly.
Awesome.
Hussing, would you like to share your perspective?
Hussan, can you hear me?
Oh, it was me.
Okay.
Yeah.
So I agree with the Dylans on the AI. Not like everything doesn't have to be on AI.
But if I have to pick on the word, what section AI has to come in for current progress, I think it would be an interface.
So currently back then, like the only way people could interact with the application on the software was just through the buttons.
interact with the application on the software was just through buttons and then maybe just
a little amount of inquiries like text or something.
But then since LMM appeared, we can have something like a virtual experience as I show with the
Haifu.com to go with just like a natural conversations.
So we can definitely build something like waifu to
talk about like what happened in the market insomnia or what is the trending asset insomnia
or something and they would just really like respond as like a normal human or something
and i think ai is people say that ai will will solve all of the problems that we have right now.
But I kind of disagree because there are some people who are really domain experts on that.
But then when it comes to just interacting with someone, which can't be like a real person, I think that's what AI can first can solve.
And then we try to make it fun with the iFu.com.
And then we try to make it fun with the AI food app.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
AI has been around, like, for so, so long, but we never had, like, an actual adoption
until the chat GPT boom.
And it was mainly because it was so easy to use it.
You can get, you could just kind of, like, chat and text.
Am I still audible or my wifi is killing me?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's okay, we can hear you.
Okay, thank you.
Appreciate it.
Yeah, I mean, it's just like when ChatDeputy came on,
like things, everyone just started talking about AI so much
and that AI will replace people, will i mean okay we signed robots i
robots and some other that robots are gonna kill us anyways but i mean like now in actual reality
um until 30pt ai was not as widely used and not many talked about it but now it's
like basically part of everyday lives.
It's so bad that you can literally recognize a sentence Chad Gputi or Claude wrote.
But it also brings so many benefits.
It saves a lot of time.
It really helps you learn some things faster.
you like learn some things faster and what i like about it it also removes some some kind of like
limits or if someone doesn't have as much access um it actually can bridge that last week we talked
about uh using ai to create and to build games or using ai um to, to write, to learn how to write smart contracts, how to learn how to deploy.
And I think it just like really opens, like opens like people to have like a lot more opportunities to learn, to build, to create.
And I think that's great about ai but on the other hand i don't know just also i mean
from legal perspective of course it's a bit tricky and uh you know maybe that like those movies
really come true and ai really kills us at some point so i'm curious to uh get your get your opinion on okay so ai brings so many advantages
it helps it facilitates it helps progress faster but on the other hand it doesn't really come
without the negatives so what would you say are some of the negatives and specifically in the crypto space.
Youson, do you wanna go first?
So you want an opinion on the advantage that AI can get other than experience?
In terms like, what do you think,
what are some of the negatives that can come with AI?
And if there are any kind of negative impacts on the space with AI?
Oh, there's lots of things that can be negative.
So just imagine you have an AI that just does the whole trading operations for you and then somehow it just misbehaves.
for you and then somehow it just misbehaves just if you look at the current bit get incident where
mmbot just sets up sets up the price up and down repeatedly uh bit just lost about like 300
millions because of it so i'll be really cautious on using ai, doing a really important job that cannot go back.
There's no return.
So I think in terms of AI, I think it's still a good tool to show what the, to just analyze
what happened before.
But then I think there's a huge negative side effects if we just still just let AI to decide everything
that is coming on future.
One of the other negative aspects would be, yeah,
AI is still a black box that we cannot expect the AIs
to do predictable action sometimes.
And I don't know know it could be just like
i mean the problem would just end with just rapidly like trading just like bit get
but also it could be more than that who knows maybe it could be like a skynet or something
you know yeah yeah i think like as i said like it can bring some benefits, but we shouldn't trust it that much,
basically with everything, and maybe even give it a bit more time to do a bit more learning
and see. Dylan, what's your take on this? Yeah, I kind of align with you in a sense that I think AI is amazing. At Automato, we use AI mostly. Half of our time is using AI and getting feedback from it and learning, learning, learning. We learn a lot from AI now. It's getting really powerful, but it's still not yet fully ready in a sense that you don't want to give your money to ai as of
today it's because you don't know maybe at some point you will hallucinate and then you will just
like spend it on something that you didn't expect and that's why as of today i think we are missing
slightly we are really close to something really autonomous and very intelligent. But as of today, the trust is not here yet.
It's really good for content, for explanation,
for all those kind of use cases.
Even though I feel that now, for example,
crypto Twitter is getting more and more AI generated.
So the authenticity is kind of missing.
For some creators, some people, I can sense that it's all AI generated, which
is good in some way, but bad in some way as well.
So yeah.
So for example, to counter these things
of the hallucination and unpredictable things,
at Automata what we implemented is the kind of human
in the loop, where in automation, when there is AI involved,
we add this kind of validation of a human
through Telegram, through whatever,
where the AI would say,
hey, do you want me to swap whatever USDC to this token
because it's part of the workflow you set?
Are you validating?
And then you validate any process.
Thanks to that, we train, we learn, the AI learn,
and then we don't make any bad move.
Because otherwise, once it's done, it's done, right?
So that's the problem and how we solve it.
Yeah, so as long as it's a very controlled environment
and you don't trust it too much
and you use it to help you, then it has many benefits.
But if you trust it too much and we're just like, you know, rely completely on it, then
you kind of just get ready for the good morning video.
Exactly.
Awesome. Thank you.
And Tamlin, what's your take on AI?
Yeah, it's really funny because I think that as humans,
we have a tendency to want to delegate difficult decision making.
And so honestly, finance, and I worked in probably some of the most complex areas of finance during my TradFi career.
And like, if I had AI to delegate to, to like solve certain parts of that, I absolutely would have. Like it's,
it's a real temptation because it literally, I mean, scientific kind of papers show that
decision making consumes, you know, human glucose in the brain, right? Like we don't like too much decision-making and a lot of finance is around decision-making.
And so I'm really fascinated by this kind of intersection
of humans collaborating with AI.
I don't think it's, I think it's, we're very much in early days.
we're very much in early days.
I think we need to obviously mind ourselves, be careful,
think it through.
But I also think that there is this human kind of wave
towards delegating.
You know, economic systems are complex, they're difficult, right?
There's like the game theory
that underpins them, the, you know, like, huge data sets that go into decision making,
that stuff is really difficult for our human brains. And so I think that our inclination
is to delegate to AI or to whoever. And that's actually going to become more of a thing in defi
because defi is really well set up for that because it's very data driven it can plug into
autonomous agents um that can have wallets instead of bank accounts. Like we're set for this revolution,
but I do think it's going to be a little messy because, yeah,
we still don't really understand what necessarily makes a good financial decision.
Humans take into account a lot of things that AI can't,
moral thinking or longer term, you know, implications
and whatnot. So I think we have a kind of interesting few years ahead. And I'm looking
forward to it. And I'm a big fan of, you know, Otomato and Standard and these guys who are, you know, creating the tooling for this, I do think it is the future.
I think it's going to just be like a little bit of like a lot of dialogue,
a lot of talking like on this Twitter spaces or X space
to discuss how we think about, you know, putting up guardrails
and how we think about making this work for us as humans.
Yeah, thank you for that.
I think I'm still also trying to learn what is a good financial decision.
But yeah, I think we'll have a lot to learn and talking about
some of the risks of ai of course like nothing comes without legal getting involved right so
i'm curious to get your perspective like i assume like you did research for your projects and what are some of the potential challenges you've learned
about so far? What might be kind of, I wouldn't say blocking, but kind of like making it a
bit difficult to bring together AI and DeFi and build great solutions. Dylan, do you want to go first?
You're under my guess.
I didn't hear the question.
Sorry.
Is it my fantastic Wi-Fi again?
Sorry about that.
Maybe it's mine.
You're very polite.
So I'm curious to understand
if you encountered, like, some potential, like, legal challenges while building your product, something that you became aware of in your life.
Now, these lawyers and this compliance stuff is so annoying. I just want to build cool stuff.
cool stuff? Yeah, it's a really good question, actually. The chance, if I can say, it's on the
architecture we've set at Automato is the fact that we are using something called ERC4337,
account abstraction, means that at any point of the process at Automato, when we create your wallet,
when you connect your wallet, what we do is we're creating a smart wallet, a sub-wallet attached
to your main wallet.
It means that we will never ask you your private key,
et cetera, et cetera.
And you will always remain in control.
And we won't have any right on your wallet,
only what you gave us.
And then this makes us non-custodial,
meaning that we don't possess your funds.
It's all, you still remain the owner and the actor of your subwallet.
And thanks to that, we don't have, we escape, if I can say, all the regulation.
We are compliant because we don't, we don't, we don't custody the funds and stuff.
So this is the way Automato is architectured.
And thanks to that, we don't struggle too much in terms
of compliance and stuff.
But in another way, it will have been very, very difficult.
We will have needed a lot of licenses, a lot of audits,
a lot of things like that.
So for us so far, we didn't face any issues.
Let's see how it goes. But yeah, that's the situation.
And that's how we built the whole system to be very, very transparent
and compliant in many, many, many ways, basically.
Are you still here?
I'm here.
Hello?
Yep, we're still here.
We might have lost Alexa because of that Wi-Fi issue again.
But I did see an emoji, so we might have some activity.
But we were talking legal and, oh, I think I heard a voice.
Yeah, no worries, it's me.
I'm just laughing at myself, to be honest.
You're back, yay.
Nice, perfect, we can hear you perfectly now yeah it's just so weird because like my phone where i'm with my uh with my room with the somnia profile should have ever internet
this one because i'm stealing this one from the coffee shop that might be the reason why it's not
working but yeah so i just wanted to comment on what Dylan shared
that sometimes like the,
generally the regulatory landscape for crypto web 3,
I mean, DeFi,
everything related to blockchain
is very challenging at the current times.
But what I've learned is that there are some tweaks
and you can get a bit of creative
and do what you want, build
what you want to build, but be careful what to do and what not to do.
So as you mentioned, right, so if you went down, if you didn't have a different infrastructure,
you would be subject to so many different compliance licenses and you would have to
do so many things.
And that would take a lot of time, a lot of energy,
a lot of years.
And a lot of money.
Yes.
Yeah.
So it's so when you kind of have that work around or you make some tweaks to the product,
you find a way to be compliant, stay compliant and still build what you would like to build. And how was it for standard?
And did you encounter any potential legal challenges and how did you handle that?
For the potential collaborations with the AIs and all that.
I mean, so, I mean, we make AI HIFU.bond on standard,
but that doesn't mean that
we exclusively work with HIFU.
Actually, we're just really trying to reach out
to other AI agents platform to work with.
So far, they could definitely have better custody
or a custody account to be more secure.
I mean, it could secure from north korea then
yeah it's pretty much secure for us to go with that okay um thank you and how about you tamlin
have you experienced any potential legal difficulties
so my view on legal side of things is that like, the problem with crypto is that it's global, but it's also the feature of crypto, right?
And so legal jurisdictions are, like, different globally.
And I feel like people need to self-regulate, basically, into whatever jurisdiction they're a part of.
It's something I think about a lot, like I take it very seriously, but I think fundamentally
I'm passionate about, you know, allowing humans to have the tools they need to build their own self-sovereignty.
And then it's up to them how they fit into their legal jurisdiction.
Yeah, that's a very interesting take. And honestly, this is kind of like the topic,
I think we could kind of like go on and on for a lot.
I think the idea of self-regulation is extremely interesting and very important but I think
that the problem with it is that you rely on people and then when the problem starts
because you have so many different things to manage, different backgrounds, different cultures,
different operating systems.
And it's just so difficult to bring to that unified place
where actually when collectively people can build
because people are always going to complain about something.
And then...
So, yeah, I think, I mean, blockchain governance, self-regulation is kind of like the ideal that brought me in. But then sometimes the people come in the way and it gets more difficult.
No, absolutely.
I completely understand that.
And I think it's important for us to hold the course.
Are we creating neutral infrastructure or are we creating political communities?
And from where I stand, I'm trying at least to create neutral infrastructure and then allowing, you know, the social constructs around that.
It's difficult, though.
It is very difficult.
I heard some projects like CrossMint, they get funded for solving the legal issues.
I'm not sure how they solve that, but it was mostly focused on MPC, I think, and some limited transactions between a certain DeFi protocols to do transactions.
Oh, really?
Yeah. Oh, really?
Yeah.
Oh, I'd love to.
Let's have a side chat about that.
That's very interesting.
Yeah, I can definitely introduce Crosswind too.
Yeah.
Sounds good.
Yeah, it's definitely, you know, it's definitely a political minefield.
It's a social minefield. It definitely a political minefield it's a social minefield
it's a human minefield going forward it's the governance of money and influence right like that
is that is everything that humans are about so um this stuff is very cutting edge actually
yeah yeah that's that's an interesting take and i think yeah i mean
i think the problem with people that they're people and there's always be some problem
to manage and that can slow down the innovation and slow down what you're actually trying to do
and trying to build so i guess that's something that's kind of done or have to be doing in stages as a human kind
and very, very, very far from today as well, probably.
Great. Thank you, everyone.
We have a few minutes left,
so I would invite everyone, anyone from the audience,
if you would like to come up,
ask any questions
to our speakers.
If there is anyone, please raise your hand, request to speak and we'll bring you up.
We have some people during the space, but I'm not sure if I'd like to.
Okay.
Okay, anyone like to say something, ask something?
We don't bite, we don't eat.
My Wi-Fi might be bad, but it's there.
Okay.
Well, it seems like we're going to have quite an end to this space.
Thank you, everyone, for coming on and listening, enjoying the space with us today.
and listening, enjoying the space with us today.
We have spaces every week on Tuesdays and Thursdays.
On Tuesdays, we discuss ecosystem announcements,
and then it will be, again, me with hopefully better Wi-Fi.
And on Thursdays, you can enjoy listening to our gaming space hosted by our very own
chief wipes officer, John Wives.
And you can learn about some games building on Insomnia and actually some of them will
be deploying very, very soon.
So thank you everyone.
Give everyone a follow
and I hope to see you again in one of our next spaces.
Thank you very much.
Thank you too.
Bye.
Bye. guys
