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INVESTING FOR INCOME - The WOLF Income Show
Recorded: April 2, 2026 Duration: 0:57:30Space Recording
Full Transcription
Thank you. What is up, everybody?
How are we doing?
I am ready and excited for this conversation at 2 p.m. Eastern on Thursday.
You know what that means.
We got Andrew up here.
Let me send you over to the co-hosts.
And we got some talks about some income ETFs dividends everything
like that I already see miss roundhill down below I am excited for this
conversation mr. Andrew how are we doing sir mr. crypto fit doing great man I
appreciate the you know I'm still learning like the quickness of accepting
the co-hosts and just all the little intricacies but man you guys are
absolute geez at this this is great is great. You're going to learn.
Sometimes you'll get booted from spaces when you accept a co-host.
It can be weird sometimes to get started.
But hopefully my internet doesn't really go out here.
This should be a fantastic time, a fantastic conversation.
Yeah, it's a weird time in the world, in the investing world as well.
It's a weird time in the world, in the investing world as well.
And I could see this actually being a time where the income type of ETFs pick up a conversation
here.
And I'm curious to hear what's on your mind.
What are some of the topics that you think maybe we're going to talk about today as we
get some of the panel up here?
Yeah, I actually just got off the phone with like Rexhares, they're buddies of mine, and
they were asking that same question.
They're like, is the sentiment of the yield investing
kind of community, is it more like leaning
into the direction of their selling?
Is it more into leaning in the direction they're buying?
And I kind of told them, I think unfortunately,
a lot of us, not me, but I mean, I'm in some margin,
but a lot of people got not me, but I mean, I'm in some margin, but a lot of people got in
and they were like, there's an arbitrage, you know, a chance here. I can take out a margin loan
and I will pay back the margin loan. And I hate to sound like Dave Ramsey. That's definitely not
where I'm going to go with this thing, but they didn't pay back their debt. And now they're
sitting, you know, kind of bag holding and they're having anxiety and stuff.
But this sector as a whole, I think, is only going to 5x from here.
So let me see.
I'm getting a bunch of people up.
A bunch of people I asked to come on are requesting to get on stage.
I want to get them on first before we start.
Oh, I think you might have did it for me nice yeah on stage we got 100k and we got high
yield dividend warriors yep and then we're gonna get miss roundhill up here yield craft up here so
guys if you don't mind i'm about to start feel free to uh just request and then anybody else
in the audience i i know that i put this out to my community. I saw a couple of people share it. We want to hear about your experience and how you're using these funds
to either supplement your income or, you know, kind of barista retire or full on retire, or if
you're moving into the retirement age and you're transferring from growth to income, we want to
hear all about that. So let's see.
Do I have the high-yield warriors up?
Can you guys say what's up?
Yeah, yep, I'm here.
Hey.
Okay.
I don't know if I have your actual name.
Let me get your name so I don't just call you high-yield warriors.
Yeah, so in Discord is Mr. K, but most people just call me Khmer,
and you call me whatever.
But, yeah, Mr. K is is good I love Mr. K yeah all
right so Mr. K I'm gonna kick what I want to do for this is I have a bunch of topics we're gonna
go over and we're probably not gonna be able to make it through all of them today but I also I
want you to start it off and then I want to kick it to you know Miss Roundhill 100k and anyone else
kind of comes up if they have something to say about it.
Is that cool?
Yeah, no problem.
Let me do a quick introduction because most people don't know who I am.
So I came to this investment journey back in 2023, so three years ago.
I have no background on this stuff, never went to school for this,
never worked in this field.
I always tell people I never even work in a cubicle environment.
I spent my entire adult life from 18 until now. I'm in the military and I wear uniforms,
you know, and part of my capacity at work here. So I apologize. If I get interrupted,
that's because work, I just have to leave. And so if that happens. So I came to this space, you know, just trying to figure out how to generate a secondary income when I no longer when I take off my uniforms.
And and I came right at the right time. I came in when YieldMax Tesli.
I was one of the originator to buy into Tesli. I was all in a Tesli.
I made a YouTube channel call all in on Tesli. And I literally put everything on it, not knowing anything about option trading, not knowing anything about cover call, high yield dividend.
I don't even know what the definition means, but all I know is that they pay really good yield.
And so I was committed to that.
And so far, there's a lot of lesson learned from that, and I learned a lot.
And I just want to do a quick introduction.
I don't want to take thunders away from somebody else no that was great and I actually appreciate your humility on that
because I'm very similar came from the decentralized finance world where I was an absolute degen and my
wife looked at me like I was crazy she's like how are you just like trading NFTs to make 100 AVAX in a day? And she knows none of this.
And it was the most sketchy, anxiety-ridden way.
And I exited that space, kind of sold out of everything,
went into Bitcoin and Ethereum.
And then I just kind of waited and then moving into the more legitimate world.
So I consider this stuff very non-risky, in my opinion,
from where my risk tolerance came from.
But all right, first topic.
Thanks for getting on, Ms. Roundhill, too.
I'm going to let you guys do a micro introduction when you start to speak.
But how we're actually using these funds,
not everyone in the space uses the ETFs the same way.
Some are reinvesting every dollar.
Some are living off of distributions.
Some are using them as a buffer alongside growth assets.
So there's no right way to do this.
A lot of us get started
investing and then maybe we got invested in VTI and we're all growth and then we sort of added
some of these later. So my first kind of question to you and I want to kick around the panel is,
how are you exactly using these? And none of this is financial advice. Obviously, there's a lot of
people listening, but I just want to know how the panel, how you, Mr. K, are actually using these income funds today
in 2026, April. Yeah. So how I started and how I'm doing now is a lot different. When I first
started, 98% of my money was sitting in yield max. At the end of the rainbow, I had 10,000 share of ULTY. I had
7,000 share of Tesla. I had over 6,000 shares of Misty. It was a lot. I was generating a lot of
money. At one point, I was generating $20,000 worth of it. The majority of that money was
generated through margins, just like you were talking about. I used margins to boost up. I just went after all the incomes. And what
happened after the April tariff, I realized that this was not a sustainable direction. So I got
rid of all my margins, just got rid of everything. After I got rid of my margin, I just essentially
went back to the original investment portfolio I started off with.
So I have about $100,000.
That's essentially my money, whatever's left over.
And I just rebuilt it back.
I still have ultra high fund because I use it to pay bills and taxes.
And people always talk about taxes, but I do pay bills and taxes. And people always talk about taxes, but I do pay bills and taxes.
And then I take the ultra high and I buy lower yield. So it's one of the four topics I do want
to cover. So I take the ultra high, buy the lower yield, and now I'm building my portfolio from a
lower yield perspective. When I say lower yield, I'm talking about 10%, 15% category.
If it's okay, I just want to throw this four topics here.
I just listed here.
Number one is what is the target investor for high yield dividends?
So that's number one.
Number two, the terminology is different.
Like I came in, I've been here three years.
I don't think we ever got the right terminology yet.
Somebody definition of high yield dividend is different for somebody else.
And number three is the future of high yield dividends, because I see where direction it's
going.
And I hope the fund manager come in.
That's one of the reasons I like talking to fund manager, because they look, they see
the future.
And the fourth one, for those who's in the high-yield space, probably don't realize there's a conference coming up for the high-yield dividend communities, or all communities out there.
So I just want to throw those four, and that's it.
I'll turn my turn to the next speaker.
That's perfect.
So first, what I want to go, I want Ms. Roundhill to talk on that in a second, too, because there are some similarities there that she can bring.
I want to go, I want Ms. Roundhill to talk on that in a second too, because there are some similarities there that she can bring.
So you had mentioned that you're now doing, when you say ultra high yield, let's define our terms.
So defining our terms, ultra high yield, we're talking all T, ULTI, ULTY.
You know, we're talking yield percentage, maybe 50% or above.
I know 100K and I used to coin like 50% and above.
We had what's called a yield pyramid
and you're gonna love that 100k hit me with that like man we made that yield pyramid hard where
your higher yield of 50 60 plus percent is now buying your lower yields considering if that is
you know a five percent for you i don't know define your terms for me i think a 10 to 12
percent yeah still be considered lower because i'm defining my terms
personally at you know 10 to 12 i know i can get 11 from stretch and i trust bitcoin i i understand
the fund so um yeah that's definitely the almanac the almanac definition i printed out here
the way they define the yields is the low yield is 0.2%. We're talking
about Coca-Cola and SHD. And then the moderate yield or core yield is 2.4%. And the high yield
dividend, the community I'm in, is 4.6%. And then the very high yield dividends is 68%.
The ultra high is 8%. So anything 8% plus is ultra high. And that is nowhere near my definition at
all whatsoever. I believe the ultra high is 80% or higher. And we don't have a really definition
between 30% and 80%, which is the 50% range. Think of like top W, you know, that type of fund,
what do you do? And then, and then, because if you use the Albinic definition,
I mean, essentially SPI-I and QQI is ultra high. And I don't put that in the same category as,
you know, TSLY or Misty or TSYY. You see what I'm talking about?
Absolutely. Ms. Roundhill, do you want to speak on that because i feel like you have a ton
to bring on that specific topic and if you want to talk real quick about how you are using these
funds to that first one i'd love to you just kind of share your story a little bit okay yeah let me
do a little bit of introduction my name is amy i have yieldmight.com it is a high income ETF comparison tool. And until I added filters on it, I didn't even let things that paid below 10% yield onto the website. So that was my personal threshold of, is this a 10% or more yielder? If not, you can go to traditional resources to figure that out.
to figure that out. But I am currently living off of my yields. I do not recommend anyone to
go about it the way that I have done it because I had a condo and I had to sell it. It had taken
three years. I had five buyers that backed out. I wound up having to pay $77,000. So I had to take out a personal loan. So I'm trying to, and then right as I, I got that
done, I got laid off. So now I have, you know, my personal loan and a credit card from having to pay,
uh, the air conditioner broke. So I'd pay like $10,000 for that. It's been a whole mess. So as
soon as I'm out of this debt, I'm already retired. I'm living off my dividends.
I'm going to pay down my margin.
But I've lived through this entire year with 20% margin buffer.
Do not recommend.
It's been a little stressful.
Oh, it is stressful, isn't it?
I'm like, I'm 30% in inverses and somehow I'm still beating the NASDAQ on the way down.
I don't understand.
But yeah, so I've gone from having a Misty portfolio basically to using a lot of margin and becoming more conservative because I'm using a lot of margin.
I need it to not move around as much. So, um, I feel like I have a lot of experience in this space,
but also don't, don't do what I do exactly. Don't model after me.
That's totally fine. And obviously, like we said, this isn't, we don't give advice to anyone, but
sharing, you know, the experience is important. So I don't have like a bad experience, uh, yet
because I've always looked at the and i'm not saying i'm
not going to um the only bad experience i have is i started doing my own options and i got greedy
and i started doing them on the uh you know the levered funds and now i'm learning i should have
listened to 100k way more yeah i saw that um but so two things i want to move on to i have a whole
round of topics but now uh you know i'm gonna going to call you Coach K, Mr. K.
He inspired me to kind of maybe dive into some of the ones that he had.
But one thing I want people to understand is, Hunter K, I want you to back me up on this.
I don't consider a dividend from a Pepsi.
That is a completely different category.
I actually don't like, if I'm in a
growth asset, I don't even want a dividend. Correct me if I'm wrong, my vernacular on that,
if a company's paying a dividend, it's a completely different way of producing income.
I would rather them just continue to grow their company, continue to allow my asset to appreciate.
I know we had a conversation
on that before 100k do you remember what we talked about yeah i think the main difference is the
difference between a dividend and a distribution a lot of people get those two words intertwined
right most of the time a dividend to your point crypto is paid out from net income that's left
over from you take you know company's income minus its expenses
minus its debt and you have net you know net profit and that's what's usually derived from
from dividends where distributions from the income space that we're talking about is usually a mix
of income sold from the options that they make from the premium harvested along with a little
bit of return of capital basically them returning your own money to them So I think it's really important for people to understand the difference
between a dividend and a distribution. And I think a lot of times those get mixed up and intertwined.
So about the yield pyramid, because I feel like that'll be a good place to go here, because
what Mr. K brought up, do you think that there is a, and anyone on the panel can kind of come up and talk about this,
do you think that there is an untaught, call it educational experience to be learned,
maybe through your own experience, but that buying the ultra high yield,
you need to define your terms first.
What is high yield for you?
Because high yield for someone, like we said, you know, JEPI, JEPQ,
that could be the highest yield that they're comfortable with.
But understand that fund is still doing, you know, JEPI, JEPQ, that could be the highest yield that they're comfortable with. But understand that fund is still doing, you know, they're still writing, you know, cover calls,
they're still doing options, and then they're paying you back. And you still own some of that,
you still own some of the underlying, but we need to define our terms as investors of what
we're actually going to do. Go ahead, Ms. Roundhill. All right, so one thing that was ambiguous
for me for a long time is when you look at these high yields,
what does it actually mean?
And for me, well, the thing is you have to look
at what your projections are
for how much that underlying is going to grow.
You cannot take out more than what you're expecting that underlying to grow
and still expect to have the same buying power.
So, for example, the cap M of the S&P 500, you say, is 10%.
So you cannot take more than 10% of your distribution and spend that
and expect to have the same buying power over time.
So you can choose to have something that pays you less distribution
so you can use most of it as income, or you can choose something that has a higher
distribution and you can choose how to reinvest it, but it does need to be reinvested so you
have the same buying power. And to me, that was not communicated
to me at the beginning. And it took me a very long time to understand that.
Yeah. So when I came into this space, this is Mr. K with High Yield Dividend Warriors.
So when I came to the space, there's not a lot of education on this stuff uh and that's all my
fault and i'm not blaming anyone you know so uh the the big the big problem is that in my belief
now is three years later there is the high yield dividends has a group that you should belong to
and uh so the the question i was, is it for beginner? I said,
yes, there is a room for beginner, but it really, it should be more target toward mature portfolio,
mature portfolio. And I was not a mature, I came in, it was $0 in my child swap account.
And next thing you know, I'm buying Tesli and I went all in on Tesli. So that is not probably the right way to do it because.
And so I think to me, in my opinion, if you have a five hundred thousand dollar portfolio,
I have one hundred thousand dollar right now and I'm uncomfortable.
The only difference is I have income. So I have a lot of income coming in so I can generate. I can I can help massage my portfolio. But it's a fighting battle.
And but if you have a $500,000 portfolio
and you own, if you own the same amount of ultra high yield that I have now, that $500,000 portfolio
is, the amount I have right now is puny. But the amount I have right now is generate over $4,000
a month of income. So if you get $4,000 a month in income, but it doesn't affect your portfolio.
So that's why a mature portfolio and income, a high yield dividend has space for you.
And it's almost perfect for a retiree because they own a lot of growth stocks.
They own SPY, IVV, VU, and mutual funds, and bonds, and treasury, but they have no income.
So let's say they have a million dollar portfolio, half a million dollar portfolio. Now they need income. Instead of selling 4% out of it,
now they can grow their high yield dividends. And if the high yield dividend ETF fluctuate up and
down, it won't affect their portfolio. But the thing is, they will have incomes and they can do
something with that
income. So I hope that kind of helped answer that question, CryptoFits.
Yeah. So I'm going to move this one to what actually goes into selecting a fund,
because that's specific for each individual. Now, you mentioned that you were ruined by Tesli.
Now, it's hard, right? Because if someone takes out a HELOC today, and please don't do this,
someone takes out a HELOC today on their home and buys Misty,
they might be in the perfect time.
Please don't go do that.
But what I'm saying is everything matters on timing.
Yield is the headline number that gets people involved.
But you got to look at nav stability, expense ratio,
what the actual underlying is doing. So for me, for an example right now, I think Robinhood is
extremely undervalued. And so I could go buy hood. I could go write cash secured puts on hood,
or I could buy H-O-O-Y, which is simply a synthetic position where they're going to do,
YieldMax is going to do their own options and I'm going to benefit from it.
And I'm also going to benefit from the upside.
And then, but personally, if I like the stock,
I want to hold it long-term and get paid.
I like going for the, like the HOII funds,
where they're going to hold half of their money in the actual underlying.
So you're going to get the growth on the 1.2% leverage.
I believe someone might have to double check me on that. But then
I'm also going to get the yield because they're doing options on half of the portfolio. So I like,
you know, if I like the underlying that. But the key takeaway to what you're talking about is that
as an investor, you have to know how to do option trading if you want to do option trading,
generate income on your own. If you don't know how to do option trading, you don't have a choice.
If you want to generate income, then here's an option is to buy the fund manager,
the ETF fund manager to do option trading for you.
And then there's a whole various choices out there.
But when I came above, there was not a lot of choices.
I mean, it was Tesla, ORK, Clip and Bitto.
So it was like if you want ultra high, but it is not a lot of choices i mean it was tesli ork clip and bito so it was like if you want
ultra high but it is not a lot of choices but now you got like thousands of choices you can pick
from but but the key part what you're talking about is that you know how to do option trading
most people don't know how to do option trading and so now you got to pick the best uh high yield
you know whatever how you define high yield income for you.
And you have to go with a fund manager that you trust, you like, you love, and to do your investment for you.
Cool. Anyone want to add anything to that?
Yeah. So single stock trading is different than going into like a spy eye or anything that has it's a broad market
index fund um so like you can use um you know hoi and hoi but you still have to pay attention
to your indicators and figure out what your stop or set a stop loss that way you don't get obliterated because it's a single stock so
they have cycles so um i'm used to etfs being like you've said it and you forget it and you're
just in it forever but uh misty was like my first single stock experience of actually just getting
into something that's like that and there's a i, I didn't understand like, oh yeah, I'll do bad in the,
in the bear market versus like, oh no, I just lost 80% of my money.
So, um, yeah, if, if you do single stocks and you're aware of the cycle
and you've set your limits, then yeah, get the high yields because these
single stocks go up like they, well, not all the time,
but you're assuming that the single stock will go up more,
as like a price appreciation.
yes,
for sure.
and I think I invited cash up here.
I'm not sure if he's going to be able to sometimes he's,
he's up.
I wanted to get him to talk too,
because the next kind of conversation we're going,
you know, he's, he's real cool with the guys that, oh man, they have the TDAC funds.
Someone help me out.
T-Spy.
What's their actual?
E-Sykes, TDACs.
Those four?
Tap Alpha?
Yeah.
Tap Alpha.
There we go.
I know he's talked with them on his YouTube channel and stuff.
They do things a little
bit differently.
So I think, Cash, if you can, in a second, I'd love for you to talk about the differences
between what they do versus maybe what YieldMax does or what Roundhill does or what RecShares
is doing.
Because I think what we're all after is that sweet spot of 20% to 35% yield, where at a minimum, we see the upside of,
not all the upside, but some of the upside of the market that can at least keep up with inflation.
And we can, maybe if it's a 20% yield, we can take away 10%, reinvest 10%. And not only will
we be able to use that money, and I don't want to say carefree, but we can use it as our lifestyle, but then the tens percent is going to continue to grow
the position, grow our nav and also grow our income.
In cash, is that, you think that's what the Tdap, I'd say Tdap, Tdap Alpha guys are doing,
alpha guys are doing tdap's like a vaccine i think cash you mind
Tdap's like a vaccine, I think.
Cash, you mind?
i don't see yeah he got booted off the stage it was a good effort got it it's okay oh no no no
he's there it was smooth he's there now he's off the stage now he's not yeah it's okay he'll try to
come back on but um et But ETF and trackers here.
Hunter, do you want to add any of that like 20% to 40% yield?
Because I know that that was when we brought up the yield pyramid.
That was kind of our sweet spot.
Well, yeah, it's a little complex.
I think what we found is that around the 30% to 35% mark was where basically, and again, I think it's going to change as
volatility in the market changes. But the last year and a half and up until recently,
we've been in a fairly low volatile environment. And I think that 30 to 35% was kind of the mark
that you could say, hey, these are where you're basically getting the less amount of
nav erosion and the max amount of yield.
So I think that was kind of the sweet spot you're talking about in terms of like how to leverage those two things of maximizing how much you can get, but also maintaining your original balance.
And I think we kind of came to that, you know, conceptualize that idea of having several different names combined into kind of like a package, which ultimately led to the, you know, the yield pyramid. But yeah, I think one thing that's really interesting as we head
into a more volatile enmarcment, which I'm kind of excited about to see how this helps or possibly
hurts some of these companies is that, you know, specifically YieldMax, where a lot of my income funds are with of the, you know,
Ulti at 70% and Misti at 90 to 100%.
As, you know, as the volatility or the VIX climbs in the marketplace, right,
premiums get a little bit more juicy.
And so I think what we're going to start to see is if we get a higher inflated volatility market
for a longer period of time, you're actually going to start to see the NAV recover in a lot of these higher yielding names. And so I'm excited to see how that possibly
changes the perspective. I think the whole yield kind of community that we're in right now has
gotten really, really beaten down. I feel like I see more negative sentiment than positive sentiment in the market in this particular space the last few months.
And I think something's got to change.
And it's been disappointing.
I think a lot of people, I believe somebody mentioned at the beginning of the space of the two things that kind of threw people off that they didn't know is that, one, people were buying these funds with margin.
And that, two, people thought that they could just yield 70% without having any nav erosion. And that just
shows the inexperience of understanding how money works. And it's understandable, right?
You saw an investment. It looks good. You jumped into it. And unfortunately, I think it burned a
lot of people. And that resulted into a lot of the negative sentiment. So I think a higher volatility
market is actually going to play in the favor of our space. And we're just going to kind of have
to see how it shakes out. Yeah. And one of the big problems is that the community did voice
and fund managers. I think if you were to say, if the community would say, hey, just play and just
give us what the market give us. Lower your yield and then put it back into the NAV. And because
that's what the market condition is right now. When the market condition is positive, then give
us yield in the future. But if you just determine to give us yield at all costs, including the NAV,
and you're not changing your ways,
and the problem that a lot of fund managers ran into from the beginning,
the early stage, was that they were not changing.
They were not going to change no matter what.
And we all see writing on the walls that what happened when the market dropped,
it's probably not going to be in any one favor. Their favorite, our favorite, nobody's favorite. But the good news is a lot
of fund managers did adjust to that. And I think that's, I think we're probably coming back into
the space. I mean, there's a lot of fund managers, a lot of the newer fund managers, they're adjusting.
They're playing to the market vices. This is the way we're doing it. We're not changing our ways.
They're playing to the market vices.
This is the way we're doing it.
We're not changing our ways.
Sure, but let me play devil's advocate here and get your opinion on this of the prospectus
and the investor documentation and even the name of some of these funds.
Let's take Ulti, for example.
The name of the fund is ultra high income.
So if you were somebody who is asking a fund manager of a owner
of a name of an investment called ultra income to lower their income, you can kind of see how
that's counterintuitive, right? So if you're someone who doesn't like nav erosion and you're
saying, hey, I'm an owner of ulti, I'm kind of, I don't really want to lose the nav. Can you please lower the yield?
Well, we'll sell your Ulti and go buy Big Y that yields 10%
or go buy the new TSLI, I think whatever Tesla is, it's 25%.
Like there are different funds.
I don't think anybody's asked them to lower.
We asked them to just to do to sell their products.
But the part that I think a lot of the community was asking was play toward the market and the market fluctuate up and down.
So I think that's a big difference between that.
I think I saw a lot. And I don't know, crypto and other folks back me up but i saw i continue to see or did see people were asking these fund managers like rex
and the yield max and uh and and w pay i forget who the owner of that is but they were like hey
lower the yield lower the yield so that we don't burn the nav so much and it was just it was kind
of counterintuitive to what the actual purpose of the fund is yeah i think it's just it's just
terminology how the way they approach the fund managers. But
ultimately, what they're asking for is play toward the markets. And the market right now is that we
don't need you to pay, give me 100 something percent yield. We don't need $2, $3. Just give
us whatever the market is and put the rest back in the nav or put whatever it's back in but or play further out of the money so this way you're not losing your trade and you play further
out on option trading so you can go into the technical and option trading or you know why do
you have to play in the money uh closer to and now you're in danger of losing that trade and uh so
uh so there's a whole lot of things yeah yeah and, and I think that is a topic that has not been discussed, that I think could be discussed, not necessarily in this space, but later, is the understanding of these funds aren't designed to move.
Like the yield and the strategy is not designed to change just and pivot.
It's designed to do one thing and continue to do that versus I think the investor sentiment is that we want them to have more flexibility.
And I don't think that's how it currently works.
And so I think that needs to be talked about so that more people understand the difference.
Yeah, and you're spot on.
100K, you're spot on because that's the argument.
And that's why a lot of people left YieldMax.
So, I mean, they lost almost half 50 percent of the, I think at one point they almost had $20
billion AUM and they lost a lot because you saying exactly what a lot of people are doing.
And they're like, okay, if you don't like what we wrote into our perspectives, go buy something else.
And they went to buy something else. They bought rec share. They bought funds that designed to generate a balanced portfolio, balanced investment.
Completely.
So I want to move on to Ms. Roundhill in a second because the one thing that I think it's hard because we have a responsibility as people who speak in the space to educate people without trying to give
them advice. And unfortunately, if you catch all tea at the bottom, and you ride up a bull market,
and you're a large influencer, you're going to create a buzz to be like, look what I did,
I caught the bottom. I mean, my money's actually going up without reinvesting. And then unfortunately,
uneducated investors see that then they think and then they take out margin and they enter, you know,
Alti at the top or something of that nature.
And then they just see themselves get obliterated and they're not reinvesting.
So, Ms. Brown, did you want to add to that?
Yeah, so as someone that's been in the space, around the space, commenting about the space,
been in the space, around the space, commenting about the space. I think a lot of people were
asking maybe the question, like not using the correct vernacular. And so for Ulti, for example,
I think the compromise that we wound up at is where it should have been, where if you're not
going to write the strikes further out of the money so that we don't lose so often,
further out of the money so that we don't lose so often. Maybe just be in better companies to begin
with. We do see a lower premium, like a lower distribution, but our nav is more stable because
you're just in better companies. And it turns out that that is ultimately like the way that you can
have this fund and it not bleed out all of the time so sometimes it's like it's just i feel like
it's a little bit of a miscommunication and specifically with yield max they they do things
very deliberately so they it might take a few months but they do listen to us so um yeah so
i just um wanted to put that out there that it wasn't so much like, I don't
particularly like the target 25 funds because it should just be half of the current IV,
you know, but that was just like a marketing thing for them to make it easier for them
to communicate what to expect for that fund.
So, um, yeah.
Cash, do you want to try your, uh, wifi again,
or are you building a house and, uh, doing YouTube channel simultaneously?
Um, so I am building an addition, but I kept losing service and then,
um, you know, X kept crashing on me for some reason,
the spaces have been terrible. Um,
my two cents in this whole thing is a lot of this is
very disingenuous by the fund managers, and they're taking advantage of people with basically
zero financial knowledge. And most of the people that speak on this, they aren't even licensed
professionals to speak on this. So you get to this inflection point where you have a bunch of, you know, people talking about
how great the yield is, not understanding that yield comes from, not from getting your own
capital back, but actually, you know, definitionally speaking, from actually producing,
you know, a return of some sort. And I think that gets
misinterpreted when you go, oh, I'm getting a 75% yield. But you know, like 50% of that yield
is actually just my return of capital. I think that's where it gets, you know, the whole
distribution thing becomes a problem. I'm an options trader. So I could make you guys a product,
an ETF that pays a 200% distribution, but 180% of it is going to be return of capital.
It's a product. It's like a gimmick. Because me as a fund manager, I'm going to collect my 1% or 2% every day out of the nav.
You guys aren't going to know any different. You guys are just going to see, oh, I made four bucks
today on my $10 ETF. The math doesn't work. And I'm an options trader. So I actually have to
physically do this stuff. As far as T-Spy, you'd asked me earlier, why have they been so successful?
One, because they're not, Cy is a trained engineer.
So he's really, really good.
And he's not sending out a bunch of shiny projects like it's, you know, like it's Christmas morning.
You know, they did T-Spy, they did t spy they did tdac and then
they and then they stopped for like a year it's like you know i want to i want to make sure that
the product works and what we're doing very very authentic approach doesn't over produce doesn't
and he's not giving you back your own capital, which is great. What they do specifically is he VIX pairs.
So there's two aspects of this.
Because it's an index, you get 1256 contracts, better tax treatment, plus he VIX pairs when it goes over a certain amount.
for a certain amount.
I'm not going to tell you guys what that is.
I'm not gonna tell you guys what that is.
You guys can look on the charts.
I particularly like 19, when it goes above 19,
you might do like a call credit spread when it drops below,
depending on who you are, maybe 10,
maybe you do a put credit spread.
By adding that extra layer on to like the TDAC
and the T-SPY,
all of a sudden you're not getting your shares called away and then having to buy in, you know, at a higher price. Cause that,
that will present as nav erosion. Say you're,
I'm just going to use Tesla just to pick on Tesla. If, if Tesla runs up,
but you're on, you're not capturing all the run-up, well,
then you should have had a call credit spread,
whereas you sell the call and then you use that premium to buy a call. So you still capture some
of the upside. The same thing happens if Tesla runs down, you can sell the call and maybe buy
a put or you can sell a put and you capture some of the down. You can protect the call and maybe buy a put, or you can sell a put, and you capture some of the down.
You can protect the downside.
Howard Chan does this as well with Curve, which is why both of those funds, they've kind of maxed out at the 15%, 20%.
Because they're not disingenuous people.
They're engineers.
They're not selling you a bag of goods.
And I think that's what's missing from this space
overall. I don't know if that answers your question. No, it does for sure. Ms. Roundhill,
I'm going to go to you. And then we got two people who wanted to pop up, so I'm going to give them
a chance. Thanks, Cash. Yes. Thank you for that explanation. And do agree i like to have like if i'm gonna have one s p 500
fund i'm gonna be in three or four of them because they all have different strategies
and um i think it's interesting in this space how they are starting to have more protective
more you know put spreads and call spreads and
downside protection. And cause like that stuff that like, I can, I can do my own leaps and do
my own cover calls, but I'm also like, I'm not an expert, you know? So it would be nice to have,
you know, it's nice to have the funds that have their protections on and they're managing it actively for me.
And that's why we pay them to manage that.
So I do appreciate that this space is evolving to really be mindful of us as investors to have a better investing experience.
Strong man.
I think it's like, let's see, strong man.
Can you hear me?
Yeah, what's up?
Can you hear me?
Absolutely, man.
What do you got to bring or questions or talk to me?
Yes.
So everybody that's in attendance,
I just want you to go on Google right now
and type in total return.
I will repeat that again.
Total return.
Total return is your dividend income.
Quiet, Kid Freshie.
Total return is your dividend income, plus or minus your capital appreciation or capital loss.
Kick him out.
He's a troll.
The only thing that matters in investing is total return.
You are being deceived into high fee, high expense ratio products that are not enhancing
your total return, and you're making your investment journey way too complicated.
This guy invested in VT.
He missed out on the bull run.
Hey, hey, hey, hey.
Hey, boy.
You buy VT.
Okay, hold on.
Be careful.
Give me one.
Yeah, okay.
Yeah, yeah.
We'll give it.
So I appreciate, like, that's the thing.
If any of you guys get to meet me at the high yield conference,
I really enjoy, not confrontation,
but I enjoy a conversation that's productive.
So if even someone has a different view, you know,
I'm not saying even his rant right there was incorrect, right?
I mean, their total return is a real thing,
but also what you do with your money,
that's kind of important when it comes to total return, right?
Did you just take it and spend it?
Did someone just tell you you should go buy lottery tickets and you randomly hit a, you know, extra 500K?
That's always something that's funny to me.
So, no, yeah, I mean, people can come on and rant.
And I think censoring conversation about the topics is something we shouldn't do,
right? So go ahead, kid. You were waiting patiently though, and I appreciate you for
kind of not overreacting. So if you want to add to that real quick, go for it.
I appreciate that. No, I second everything that's being said. I do think though,
was it a hundred K? Somebody mentioned the real problem that in this space
is that we have a lot of people being influenced
by a lot of groupthink and not doing their own research.
Yes, we pay 1% to Jay and other managers,
but we also have, and I think it needs to be discussed,
in this space we have a lot of people that are bragging about millions of dollars that they've made.
Billions, in fact, in these funds.
Make sure you've got somebody like Khmer who's actually showing their actual investment accounts,
showing they have actual skin in the game, not fake spreadsheets.
So a little bit of caveat emptor in this space.
Do your research and only trust individuals who you know have skin in the game.
Yeah, for sure. ahead cash um so i just wanted to actually take a minute to congratulate you
all the fact that you're even in this space is fantastic um even if you don't understand like
you know everything there is to know about finance, you're going to spend the rest of your life learning about it.
But the fact that you're taking the time to better yourself, so I just want to congratulate you all on that.
You guys are at the peak of society, basically.
Second, I asked Rock to look up the most talked about ETFs and stocks the other day that are on FinEx, because I feel like this is where all the action is.
And it gave me an overall beta of 1.5.
So if SPY is 1, 1.5 is your relative volatility.
So a lot of people on X are really experiencing massive swings in the market.
And earlier, I think it was Kamir, talked about NAV erosion.
NAV erosion doesn't necessarily have to be just a single ticker or ETF or stock or whatever.
Think of it as your entire portfolio. Like if you have, I don't know, a hundred grand, that is your net asset value is
your hundred grand. It might not be just the 10,000 or whatever you have in Yulet, for instance,
it's your entire portfolio value. So if some of you guys might want to consider this, if you want something
that is, maybe you're big into ULTI, right? So how do you bring down your beta exposure
is you want things that might be negative related to the SPY moving up and down, something like a Walmart or an SCHD,
to try to bring down some of that volatility, you can still collect your dividends. You can
still collect your high yield, premium, whatever, but it might be worth adding in some gold, or it might be worth adding in SCHD, which does phenomenal in pullback,
or some oil, or Walmart.
I really like Walmart.
And you guys can sell options on all these products, still collect yields if the market
falls.
And you guys can protect your NAV, your entire portfolio portfolio nav, not just the single ticker.
So it's just another...
I think we lost you a little bit, but no, that was really good.
Just want to...
So my whole...
Go ahead, Kamir.
I just want to share this, you know, this course of conversation is actually a good
thing.
We should be... I'm not the host of this. This course of conversation is actually a good thing.
We should be, I'm not the host of this,
I'm just a guest here having conversation.
But if anybody come in and have a discourse,
unless they're being disrespectful and rude,
that's one thing.
But I think asking somebody to stop talking,
it's not fair we want to hear I want I want to hear what he has to say because the thing is knowledge is good because we we only
know what we know and if somebody's out there even they don't like how we invest or we don't
like the journey but they should have a voice.
And I always look at it, there's no such thing as troll, it's just people, they're all trying
to make a living and feed their families.
And I welcome all kinds of conversations, that's it.
Because this is new, this is new for everyone.
It's been around only, what, three years?
And there's nobody out there know all the answer.
And the problem is there's a huge disconnect
between investor, content creator, influencer,
and the fund managers, the ETF providers.
Somebody in the room knows the answer.
Or at least, wait, what would, like, CryptoFit,
you talk about, there's a happy medium somewhere.
And there's a, what do you call it?
The sweet spot.
I think you used the word sweet spot.
Yeah, I'm looking for that answer.
I've been doing this for three years.
I'm trying to find that sweet spot that you say.
And when you have it, please let me know.
This is one of those situations.
It's like, you can get rich.
We all can get rich all together.
All of us can get rich all at once.
The fund manager get rich because we're buying their funds.
The content creator will get rich because we're watching consuming their products and watching their YouTube channel and stuff like that.
So everybody can get rich from the same product line.
It's not like I'll get rich.
It's not like I'll get rich, I'll keep the information.
I'll keep the information.
This is one of those situations that the more information we get across the board,
the good, the bad, and the ugly.
And that's it.
I just want to share that perspective.
Thanks, Kamir.
Shout out to you, Kamir, because you never kick anybody out of your Discord.
And that's great.
That's very admirable of you.
And I believe you're having a conference on the 26th, and we're all looking forward to that. So thank you, Kamer.
Yeah, I wanted to say the last three minutes for that, because I am actually looking at my
tickets from Flint, Michigan to Vegas right now. So one more thing that I want to kind of,
before we can leave the last couple of minutes, so this one will be fast. So
the traditional retirement model,
like typically, hey, you know, withdraw 4%.
Obviously income ETFs flip that.
And I love what Kamir said.
It's a new sector.
So we're all trying to figure it out together.
And I know my personal sweet spot, I love 30%.
I love it for a lot of different reasons.
I can, I can just get there with one fund, sure.
But just like Ms. Roundhill added in here,
I'd love that Ms. Roundhill. If I'm going to do an S&P 500 though. So I wanted to ask kind of
around and then we'll make sure we end on time. I'm going to do about an hour today. Is there
any actual kind of retirement strategy that you guys would have going forward? So if you had
a sweet spot, Camira, 30%, like I had just mentioned, and would you say, Hey, my sweet spot
should allow me to withdraw all of my income
every single time and I should just be able to ride that wave or would you set a rule for yourself
like I'm going to invest 10% back into my funds or I will invest 10% back into you know just
something like VTI or long-term growth and I just want to know if anybody had a strategy or plan that they were
following. Take the wheel, anyone. I wasn't sure you were talking to me first, but I'll go ahead
and voice my opinion here. I'm still trying to find that sweet spot, but I can tell you one
number that I know it doesn't work for me. Anything over 50%, they need to be very, very small in your portfolio.
That is just, you have to know what you're doing.
If you're buying anything over 50%, you have to deliberately know exactly what you're doing.
I think, in my opinion, the sweet spot is probably somewhere in the low 10%.
But I don't know the answer,
but it's really got to do with your portfolio side
and what else in your portfolio.
So if high yield is,
like I started with 98% of my portfolio,
that's definitely a wrong answer.
But in my opinion,
the high yield need to be around 10% or lower
in your portfolio.
And let's say your portfolio is $500,000. If
your portfolio is $500,000 higher, the high yield at 10%, it's very minuscule, will not impact your
portfolio as much. And yet you can generate income to do something else and buy something else or
live off it. So you don't have to sell the 4% rule. But I don't think we're going to find that
answer. I've been searching for that
holy grail. You're talking about a sweet spot. I think it's down to the personal level, what you're
comfortable at, what your risk tolerance at, and what your experience level at. But I don't have
a sweet spot right now. I'm still searching for that answer. Yeah, totally agree there. A few
points. In my opinion, I look at income investing and yield funds as an asset class,
just like if it's equities or crypto or gold or real estate or whatever it is, I treat it as a
diversification tool of my entire investment portfolio. So totally agree. And to his point, Mr. K, if that's 5% for you,
if that's 10% for you, if that's a 25% to you, that's totally a personal choice. But
whatever it is, I definitely think it should be one part of your overall investment tool.
And then the second piece to what you're talking about is, what's that sweet spot?
Honestly, in my opinion, I think it's going to be always changing. It's going to totally depend on what's the sentiment of the overall market,
how high is volatility, you know, how juicy are the premiums, what are the payouts of the
strategies of the fund. So I don't necessarily know if you can just kind of pick a sweet spot
and it's going to last you forever. I do think it's a little bit of a moving target and it takes
a lot of practice and research to kind of fine tune and understand exactly what your needs are.
I think getting to that number, I apologize, sorry.
No, you're good. Take about one to two minutes because I'm going to wind it down and we're
going to continue this next week. So go for it. Yeah, I think this is a great question. And I
think that when it comes to retirement, it's a very personal decision.
Many factors come into play.
As someone who's had a recent terminal cancer diagnosis, 50% will do me for the next years.
But anyway, that number just depends on your personal health, your timeline, and if you're a millionaire or not.
New kid will be.
Man, thanks for sharing.
I, that is a, that's heavy.
Appreciate you bringing that like to us.
And now we got a bunch of people who kind of thinking about you through that.
So high yield, Mr. K.
What do you got real quick?
Can you do me two minutes on the conference that I'm going to see you out at in
Vegas, April 26th?
Yeah.
Uh-oh.
Which a lot of us are in. You have, you know, everybody, here's the one thing, let me just share this with you.
Everybody thinks that their community is separate from some other community.
In my opinion, this's just one big community.
The people who hang out with me also hang out with Retired Dividends, also hang out with Miss Roundhill.
They hang out with all these people, everybody.
So it's just really one big community.
And so that's why I always encourage people to show up.
And, you know, the high-yield community, everybody's out there.
And bring your microphones and your phone to record
and talk to the fund manager directly.
Because if you're waiting for the fund manager to invite you to New York and hang out, well,
that list is very small.
Unless you know them personally, that list is very small.
This is an opportunity.
We're bringing the fund manager to all of us.
And so it's April 26th is a Sunday.
It's essentially Bitcoin conference.
So if you arrive on Sunday for Bitcoin conference, hey, come hang out with us.
Free meal, free drinks.
And Rexha is the main speaker.
But there's other funds managers there.
Amplify ETF, XFund, Nicholas will be there.
David, ETF, Quantify Funds will be there. A X fund. Nicholas will be there. David ETF quantify funds will be there.
A lot of fun manager will be there.
And,
and so,
yeah,
looking forward to all of you.
And if you have any questions,
you can just reach out to me and I'll,
I'll be a point of contact,
but you can reach out to any of the fund manager and ask them personally
because they're,
they're showing up too.
I love it.
I cannot wait.
I'm booking today I will I will make
sure that make sure that so I'm hearing an echo here but at this point at this today we're gonna
end this one we're gonna end this one I think it's I think it's you high yield warrior go ahead and
go on mute I think I might be in your car there we go go. So this one today is going to be done, but we're going to do this every single week,
Thursday at 2 p.m. Eastern.
The conversation is, it can go on forever
because this is a new sector.
We're all learning together.
And I appreciate everyone who came up on stage,
bringing your opinion, bringing your experience.
Please come back next Thursday, 2 p.m.
Wolf, I appreciate you so much for putting this on
and letting me kind of co-host and run with it.
And make sure you follow all the speakers,
follow Wolf Financial.
And yeah, hopefully we see you out in Vegas.
Appreciate you all.
Have a great one, team.
Looking forward to it next week.
Thanks all, everybody.
Have a good day.
Follow the speakers.
Appreciate you, kid.
Kid Freshie.
