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INVESTING IN A CLEAN AMERICA
Recorded: April 14, 2025 Duration: 1:58:33Space Recording
Short Summary
In a recent discussion, market sentiment showed signs of recovery with SPY and QQQ experiencing significant growth. Experts highlighted the importance of strategic partnerships, long-term growth strategies, and the potential for a bullish market trend as uncertainty surrounding tariffs and economic conditions continues to evolve.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. Yo, yo, yo, what is up everyone?
Happy Monday, April the 14th.
I said August earlier for some reason.
I don't know if that was wild, but April the 14th.
Happy Monday.
The market is higher than when we last spoke on this very show.
So we can be excited about that. We did have a green day today as well to start off our week.
So exciting times. We'll see what everyone's thoughts are. I know the back and forth and
the toss and turn of the tariff turmoil. Look at all those T's that just strung together there.
Has been wild. I am excited to jump into this space, get everyone's thoughts.
Of course, we always like to go through some market sentiment at the beginning
and then see what names people are trading and picking.
We had some nice picks last week.
I'll go through those here in just a little bit for reference.
The market, since we last spoke from last Tuesday's opening price, SPY is up 3.31%.
QQQ up 4.41%.
And that's where we start the show off, right here.
And let me make sure I get everyone up here on stage.
What's up, guys?
Yo, yo, what's going on?
Well, not much.
Just going through, taking a look at it.
We had some bangers we had some
real bangers of pics last week yo this is the first time i saw this did you see you you quote
tweeted that post from financial juice yes okay did you see so it showed up on my timeline and
it showed your quote tweet but it didn't show the financial juice post and then when i clicked into
it said this post is not showing because financial
juice is compromised really i've never seen that yeah so uh it says this twitter page was reported
as compromised interesting i'm clicking in now and it looks like it's showing okay that's why i
like i like stock market news better to to be 100% honest. Yeah.
I don't know.
It's maybe some little browser add-on or something that I have.
But yeah, pretty interesting market for sure.
Crazy that SPY went from, I mean, what were we, down like 17% to down like 8%?
Yeah, it was just in this past week.
So the show, the way we run this show, and God knows this, but for the audience here, we make our picks on Monday night.
Wherever we open on Tuesday morning is where we start the ticker from, the count from.
We went down 5% to go up 6%, 6.7% that same day, and we closed up closer to those highs.
I'm sorry, this is on QQQ at 4.41% over on SPY. That Tuesday open, we went to a low of 5.5% down and 5% up. What a day later, two days
later, I guess from the show. Been a crazy time. Definitely wild times out there. I'm excited to
jump into this convo though and start getting
some market sentiment thoughts. Gab, do you want to kick us off tonight? Some market sentiment
thoughts from your end. I know you've had several posts and threads that have gone out about the
tariffs and kind of the situation in general right now. Yeah, my tariff post, if anyone hasn't seen
it, went a little crazy. And it was basically on the long term because I think a lot of people are
focusing on the short term here. But long term basically was stating like, hey, this is not going to
affect the market in the long term. Now, the tariffs might not. Indecision and miscommunications
from the White House, we'll see about those, since it's sometimes hard to tell exactly what
they're saying and what they want to talk about. But yeah, I think the market was really, really
interesting. Obviously, that was a huge drop, right? When you look back at SPY from top at 612 to the bottom, we were down a little bit
over 21%. Now, only down about 11%. So very cool to see that move back up. And I think a lot of
people might be kicking themselves and saying, oh, I should have bought. Well, here's the good news
is you're always going to have more opportunities, right? We're going to have these pullbacks and
these moves in the market. I don't think that you can ever go wrong necessarily,
keeping with a dollar cost averaging movement into SPY, into QQQ. I bought some QQQ
also during that dip. And Evan had some great calls. He was buying right at 400,
which ended up being basically the lows there on Qs. But outside of those, it's always interesting
when you can find more of these individual stocks that have opportunities. And so whether it's an IPO, like that Webull IPO that came out and went
absolutely crazy, I'm up about 156%. And shout out Emp, he's a great follow, because he's been
talking a lot about it. And that thing went absolutely nuts. I already took my initial
portion out of that and still riding a little bit off the back end of it. Or perhaps, you know,
there's other individual stocks that are getting weighed down by multiple things. Like to me, I thought Tesla, it was,
you know, getting hammered from all angles, right? Tariffs, you know, not that necessarily Tesla,
you know, they build their cars in the US, but there's still pieces coming from their cars outside
the US. But you still have a lot of things to think about, right? So you'd like these tariffs,
plus you had the economic and political stuff. And so it's like, okay, maybe there's some opportunity there to add.
So I added some Tesla.
Just different pieces along those lines.
I think that there's always opportunity in the market.
But stay the long, steady course was basically the gist of a lot of my posts.
Keep your dollar cost averaging going, and then feel free to trade around those positions.
And what better to trade with than a space with a panel like these guys?
Absolutely.
Appreciate you kicking us off with some thoughts there, Gav.
Let's go ahead and go around the panel a little bit
and see what some of our stock pickers are thinking.
I'm excited to hear some of these.
And Sam Solid, I see you down in the audience.
If you want to jump up on stage,
love to have your input and any stock picks you may have.
Let's go ahead and kick it off with my friend Andrew over at Real Pristine Capital. Yeah, what's going on, guys? Thanks for
having me on as always. In terms of market sentiment, what I am seeing is it's really,
really insane out there in terms of the sentiment. So we had this whole tariff thing and pretty much everyone
knew that Donald Trump was going to do tariffs. And the expectation was like, hey, maybe he'll do
10% tariffs and maybe the bearish scenario is he does 20% tariffs across the board.
And that was pretty much acknowledged by Wall Street and everyone that was following.
And that was pretty much acknowledged by Wall Street and everyone that was following.
These tariffs that ended up coming out were just so astronomically higher than anything that anyone had expected.
And if you remember my commentary on last week's space, it was really just these policies.
They make absolutely no sense.
and there's no way that we can go through with these. Now, on April 7th, we hit what I believe
And there's no way that we can go through with these.
was the point of maximum uncertainty, where at that point it was like, hey, when is Donald Trump
going to finally renege on these tariffs? We all expected him to because these made no sense,
but he's not going back on these, and he's just following through.
And so at that point, pretty much everyone was just offloading their stocks, offloading their
assets. We even saw they were offloading their treasuries as well, and the bond market was
really cratering. And what's nuts is those tariffs, they went into effect at midnight,
and then the bond market really just started imploding very shortly after.
So I really think prior to the capitulation of Donald Trump, or let's say like a mini capitulation, however you want to phrase it, it was really just, hey, man, we have no idea what's going on.
This is a disaster.
So we got that huge spill in the market.
On April 7th, once they announced,
hey, we're actually going to roll some of these back, we're going to make some compromises,
we're going to listen to the market. At that point, we had hit that point of peak uncertainty,
and we were moving beyond peak uncertainty. And lo and behold, that is when the market bottomed, as it always does.
This is a common misconception by people in the market. The market doesn't bottom when all the
problems are gone and everything looks perfectly rosy. When all the problems are gone and everything
is rosy, that's typically when the market is hitting new all-time highs. But the bottom happens so far before that.
So what I'm seeing online now is everyone finally doing the analysis on what's going on,
how could tariffs impact the market, all this stuff.
And I just think it's a week too late.
I really think all of the edge in assessing the tariffs and are they good or are they bad and should you take risk off due to the tariffs, that was all relevant prior to the capitulation on the tariffs.
range-bound scenario in the market where we have those lows from April 7th, I believe those lows
are going to hold because, again, that was the point of peak uncertainty. And now the way that
I see this is the farther and farther we move away from those lows, barring any new developments,
compromises, a US-China trade deal, you know, anything like that, the farther we move off
those lows, the worse the risk reward gets. So I really don't think this is like a trend
trader's market environment. I believe this is really a market environment for mean reversion
and really understanding these geopolitical events and how they translate into markets.
geopolitical events and how they translate into markets.
So I see, honestly, on my timeline and everything,
I've been spending a little bit less time on Twitter
because I really think there's so many people confused.
And then I think there's so much clickbait
that's really just feeding into the confusion.
So yeah, as I see market sentiment,
I just see a lot of people that are
incredibly confused about everything that's going on. So yeah, for me, I'm really just,
you know, sticking with my positions, all the core holdings I had. I got caught in some exposures
when the bottom really fell out. But yeah, I stuck with those. I didn't capitulate on the lows and sell them or anything like that.
So overall, in a pretty decent spot, in my view, I don't believe Trump's going to come out with
any major tape bombs over the next couple of days. I think the rhetoric has really shifted to like,
hey, where can we find compromise? Hey, are there any countries we can get deals with?
And I think we're going to see a
lot of rhetoric along those lines for the next couple of days. I really don't think the Trump
administration wants to drop a tape bomb on us, let's say like the day before Easter.
And then when all the Americans are, you know, off work with their families, everyone is discussing
like, oh my gosh, you know, my 401k is on the lows, that sort of thing. So I really am of the belief that we could
have a push higher into Easter. And on that push higher, that's really where I would want to be
taking some exposures off the table. So that's kind of how I'm playing this market environment.
And that's going to dovetail into my pick for today's space, which is Uber. And this has been
my pick for really the last two months or so.
And it's all the same thesis. It's really just the relative strength of Uber.
The fundamentals are very strong. Uber can win in autonomous driving. And we see that they're
doing partnerships. For example, they have a partnership with Waymo that's done very well
in its rollout in Texas. They also have a partnership
with another Chinese company. They're doing a rollout in India. I believe the company's name
is WeRide. So yeah, Uber, a really interesting company. They're an asset light business model,
so they were never really impacted dramatically by the tariffs. So I'm sticking with that one.
So yeah, my pick for today is going to be Uber. So yeah, just trying to stay safe out there and trying not to overtrade this into Easter.
So yeah, thanks for having me on.
Looking forward to hearing every other speaker.
Absolutely, Andrew.
Appreciate those thoughts.
And go ahead and dropping in that pick Uber.
Of course, if anybody does need to leave early and wants to go ahead and drop the picks while we go around and do market sentiment, feel free to do so, just like Andrew just did.
Andrew, you took Uber last week as well.
5.47% return is what I calculated here, which beat the market.
You beat SPY and QQQ both.
So well done to you.
And he's going to run it back.
Uber, UBER on the long side.
And Sam Solid, saw your hand came up.
And glad you joined us tonight on this show.
Would love to throw it over your direction and see if you have any market sentiment thoughts.
Yeah, thanks for the invite.
Just wanted to get this in there because I got to drop soon.
I was on the Power Hour one for the last one.
Power hour one for the last one.
It was great to be with the guys.
But I mean, I'm always of the camp that we have hit the lows for now.
And for now is probably debatable.
I mean, it could be years from now, a decade from now, or even next week.
Who knows?
But I do think that we were also in the maximum fear.
So in the Maximum Fear, I wrote something a little bit about it.
I wrote something a little bit about it.
I call it the Trump pivot.
I call it the Trump pivot, basically, when Trump can pitch a billion, like Andrew said,
not because of equities, but because of the bond market.
And when the bond market makes a historical run in terms of the yields or the bond market
drops for the 10-year by 60 basis points in less than 48 hours, that's going to cause
a lot of issues in the financial system.
So I definitely think someone gave Trump a call. I mean, maybe it was Jamie Dimon,
maybe it was someone else who knows, but probably Scott Pesant picked up the phone
and he made the wise choice to tell him to pivot. I know Chris Patel probably agrees with me on that
one. He's been writing some good stuff on that one as well. But since then, it was a good
opportunity to buy the dip in size that Sunday night. A lot of people don't have access to the
overnight trading. Fortunately, I did have the majority of my cash position in my Robinhood
account. So that was available for overnight trading. And there are some good prices that
came up that night. Hood was below $30, Amazon was below $160. Uh, Google,
I believe it was trading in the one thirties meta was in the, was around four 60, which was
pretty wild considering it was just over a 700 just a few weeks before that. And, uh, of course
there are a lot of other stuff. Uh, Palantir was trading only $1 below where it is right now.
Cause that thing never pulls back. So, to everyone who bought the pound tier dip.
But for the most part, I know a lot of people don't want to hear this,
but we could be setting up for a melt-up scenario where there's a lot of disbelief in the rally.
There's a lot of disbelief in any type of recovery whatsoever
in terms of sentiment.
And a lot of people are offsides in terms of positioning
where you have the majority
of the futures contracts for the CFTC futures that they report every single week that they are
at an index low, tracking basically how long futures traders are in terms of small speculators
are for ES futures, ESE mini futures, generally speaking, historically speaking,
they are, I wouldn't say they're not, they're not, they're not short, but they are not as
long as they usually are. So that does set up the positioning offsides. Certainly it can go lower,
but at the same time, I think the conditions are pretty favorable that we're probably as,
as certainty starts to get priced into the market, as much as uncertainty was priced into the market
recently, I think we're a long
ways from having a much certain massive bull run, but you get a lot of people trying to short it,
not believing the rally, shorts covering over time, a lot of people giving up the disbelief
theory over time. And it could before you know it. I'm not saying we're going to be at all-time
highs, but I'm saying I wouldn't be surprised if we ended up at all-time highs in the next couple of years.
And I would like 2025 to be an accumulation year where we get some more good prices.
But to be honest, I'm looking across the watch list.
And yes, there are some stuff that are still historically cheaper relative to where they were in the last few years.
But at the same time, you know, the stuff that is, the companies that are leaders, companies that are doing really well, like CrowdStrike, for example, it's almost back at $400.
In fact, when the market made a lower low when ES was around $4,800 that night, CrowdStrike was actually trading higher than it was the month before.
So usually individual holdings tend to bottom a lot more before the market does, especially the leaders in the industry.
But you did get some good prices.
Sorry, can you guys hear me still?
Yeah, still got you.
All right.
Yeah, it's weird.
It's saying it's disconnecting.
But anyways, going back to what the stock pick is, thanks for inviting me.
Wasn't able to join last week, but I'm putting my stock pick for this week on Robinhood, ticker symbol H-O-O-D.
I am long this company.
I did buy the dip in it, which is great.
I am pretty green on my position now, which is great.
I mean, obviously, it's a long-term position.
But there's been a few times we've gotten opportunities to buy into this company as far as suppressed prices.
I'm not saying that we're going to go back to $70 plus like it was after the recent earnings.
I'm not saying that we're going to go back to $70 plus like it was after the recent earnings.
But when you think of disruptor in the brokerage industry, there are a lot of leaders in the
industry like Interactive Brokers, Charles Schwab recently acquiring TD Ameritrade,
their brokerage division. But when you think about the platform that a lot of retailers use,
and now a lot more large money funds are starting to use
when i say large money funds been like people with higher net worth starting to use robin hood
is definitely up there they just had their gold event uh lost city of gold event uh just a few
weeks ago and they released three additional new products on the platform i know a lot a lot of
people on this on the spaces are a big fan of Robinhood. But when you think of
the potential that this company has from a long-term perspective, I think it's got a long
runway. The disruption of the industry is going to be catering to by delivering a really good
application that I would personally say has a really great UI and really easy to use for ease
of use. You open up an app like Bankerswim, which I've been using for years and still do actually, but I do put most of my funds on the Robinhood account.
Very different applications. I don't think anyone can download Thinkorswim and just know
exactly what they're doing the very same day unless they're very averse with trading. But
usually the retail trader ends up downloading Robinhood and starts using it. Now I'm not saying
the trend is going to continue, but as far as the metrics goes at Finchhead.io,
like everything is literally up and to the right.
I think that it's definitely a high beta name.
So it's definitely going to underperform the market on the way down,
but it's also going to outperform the market on the way up,
given the retail excitement about it, but also the beta profile.
It trades way more than one as far as the beta goes relative to S&P 500.
And I definitely think it's probably going to be another green week so i definitely think this is gonna happen
for in the market now is it probably gonna be a lot of the stock picks that you guys are doing
i don't know we'll see but uh just something fun to throw out there my pick is gonna be uh hood
thank you sam we typically do two picks on this show now recently we've allowed a couple people
if you only have one conviction type of pick in this crazy market,
we've allowed people to double up.
We saw Andrew do that.
I know a couple of others have done that in the last week or two.
Do you have a second pick that you want to toss in real fast,
or do you want to double up on Robinhood?
Maybe go leverage Robinhood.
There's a – what is it, ROB?
Yeah, I forgot what the tickle symbol was.
I know what you're talking about.
Those two times.
Or Rexhares. Yeah, the Rexhares ones. I know what you're talking about. Those two times.
Yeah, the Rexhares ones. No, I'm not going to go two times that one because I'm probably going to get smoked if you pull back by like 1%. But I'm going to avoid picking Amazon because even though Amazon is my largest holding, I do think that mega caps might be a little weak here.
Not in terms of falling, but as far as underperforming the market.
Because if we do start to get more confidence in the market,
it's probably going to broaden out a little bit faster than we expect.
And therefore, you're going to have a lot of chasing the much smaller names.
I would say the other name that I would probably have as my second pick is, where was it?
Okay, I would say my second pick is BABA, ticker symbol BABA.
This is probably one of the largest hyperscalers in China,
as far as providing a similar market to the Amazon of China, basically.
But I think China was actually, or the KYBTF, is actually outperforming.
It still is outperforming SPI year to date.
And there is a lot of strength, especially when it comes to the certainty back into the market as far as the fundamentals goes
for the US trade world with China. And especially with the fear that has been baked into the price
of the stock as well as other Chinese ADR companies, with the possible delisting on the US
markets, I definitely don't think that's going to happen. I think there's a lot of people with
money in there, a lot of powerful people with money in there that they will make sure it doesn't happen.
And Trump definitely talks a lot of game for things that he's possibly, most likely, not going to enact.
I think Baba might catch a good run, especially if China is going to outperform the U.S. this week.
So I would say Hood is my number one pick and Baba is my second pick.
Awesome.
Appreciate you joining us, Sam.
Hope to have you back on the Stock Picking Show each and every Monday here on Wolf Financial.
Hood and Baba, B-A-B-A, both on the long side from Mr. Sam Solid.
Let's continue around the panel here and get everyone's market sentiment thoughts in.
Interesting you mentioned Hood there as a pick.
Trader Nate took that last week,
and it was our second best pick.
18.86% return from Trader Nate on that one last week.
But I do want to keep going down the line here.
Nick Drendel, I'm actually going to pull you in next
and get your market sentiment thoughts.
Hey, thanks for having me.
I always like what Andrew has to say say so i'm gonna kind of mimic
um his sentiment where the risk reward was so far in long's behavior or long's side uh when we
gapped down on monday but i almost think like the the best kind of trade was Wednesday because I know personally, I was going through Twitter on Tuesday night, feeling super, super bearish, seeing all the bad news.
I saw a pathway where the market just fell apart there.
But one thing that you always should look at when you're feeling that drastically bad is what is price doing?
when you're feeling like that drastically bad is what is price doing? And I was watching the
over hours market and we weren't making new lows. Many of the growth stocks were actually making
higher highs. And at that point, when you have like, at least I know myself, when I'm that bearish
and price isn't making a new low, chances are that that's the washout that we need before a big move up.
And we got that.
I mean, we had a 17 or 18% move in the NASDAQ off the lows into the 20-day moving average.
And when you compare that to other bear market moves,
in 2022, we had an 18% rally off the lows into the 200-day moving average before making new lows.
In the COVID bottom, we had about a 17% move off the lows on March 23rd.
And then we put in kind of like a gap down, consolidate under like the 510 EMA,
and then a gap up that really ignited that move.
and then a gap up that really ignited that move.
So the two very, very quick bear markets that I have been trading was that COVID bottom
and potentially what we had here where this really seemed like a man-made event
with all the tariff news. So if we do kind of follow the COVID playbook, we, well, I'm looking
for a higher low here. Maybe we kind of follow through to the downside after today's gap up and
then slightly weaker close. We did rally later in the day, which was nice. But what I want to see is
like another reason for people to get super bearish, but without price completely falling apart.
So with the COVID bottom, we rallied into the 20-day EMA, and then we had a gap down, three days of tight trading, and then a gap up that ignited that move higher.
So if this is a very quick whoosh down and then rally back up, that's kind of the scenario that I'm looking at is another reason for people to get scared out
of this market and then have to chase it back up. Going through my larger list of stocks and ETFs,
it seems like a lot of things are just wedging into that 20 EMA. And when you get that, you do
get like kind of two potential scenarios where if you get a gap up that's not trusted, like no one
is going to trust a gap up in this market, which is probably
why if we get something like that, we're just going to have a nice rally to that 50-200 day
moving average, which what's the term for it? Death cross, where the 50 goes under the 200 day.
I don't put too much emphasis on that, but I do think we can get a rally up into that zone. And then if you look
to the left, that's where our recent rally petered out on the 25th of March. So two scenarios is a
gap down, consolidation, and then looking for a gap up to get involved. Otherwise, I would be very
careful shorting anything on a gap up without a stop loss.
I don't think you should do anything in this market or any trading without a stop loss.
But in markets where, I forget who said this earlier, but no one is believing this.
A lot of the positioning is in cash or on the short side already.
So if you do get this market trending to the upside,
it's gonna squeeze those shorts
and people who are trying to just sit on a lot of cash
on the sidelines, it's gonna get them
a little bit FOMOed in the market.
So looking for those two scenarios.
We do have a couple growth stocks
actually starting to set up pretty well.
It's not perfect, but Hood, Uber, CrowdStrike, Palantir, MicroStrategy,
crypto in general is actually acting relatively strong.
So what we've seen this entire whoosh down is anything that has shown relative
strength has then gone on to be the next group that gets sold off.
And I'm hoping now that we've had this capitulation event last week that we see the opposite now, where relative strength is
actually resulting to the upside. If that's the case, then you can play the market to the long
side. But I think what Andrew said, where it's not a trend picking market. It's very much by the weakness, selling
the strength and just not fall in love with any one direction until we get multiple growth
stocks, multiple themes shaping up for high or lows above key moving averages. I think
it's just a short-term day trader, short-term swing trader market to take advantage of. There's a ton of
volatility. So, I mean, if that's your expertise, like this is the market that you want to be locked
in and play aggressively. But the easy trend following environment that we had in 2023 and
2024, those started with very strong Januaries. So institutional investors were right off the
bat profitable for the year.
They had license to be a little bit more aggressive with their picks going into growth stocks. This year, we don't have that luxury. Institutions, if they're following the benchmark NASDAQ or S&P 500,
they're down on the year. They're not going to be as aggressive on the long side. So
I think it's just a short term traders market right now.
Appreciate those thoughts. Mr. Nick Drindle, we'll come back around and get your picks here shortly.
Let's keep it moving around. Trader Nate, what is on your mind today?
Yeah, appreciate it. Great thoughts from the panel as always. I love getting on this call on Mondays, get a lot of good ideas and different perspectives. I did not like the way today ended up, to be honest with you. A little selling into the close and continued strength to close out the day, which you didn't get.
And when you look at the overall charts, I think that we just heard a mention of the 20-day moving average, right? And there's a lot of testing of 20-day moving averages out there. SPY is doing
that right now is one of them. The Qs I pinned up to the top there. And, you know, it's got the makings of
everything that's scary in a chart, quite frankly. And I'm bullish, right? I am a bullish trader in
general. I look for upside trades. I don't like to look at charts and see them reverse. When I see
downtrends, I like to put a negative sign in front of the symbol and reverse it and just look at it
going up, right? Like I literally would prefer to see that at all times of the day, reverse it and just look at it going up right like i literally would prefer to
see that at all times of the of the day month year but um i you know i'm a technical trader
and when you look at some of the things that are setting up here it's hard to get extremely bullish
and then uh hearing everybody talking about you know that extreme uncertainty putting in the low
um and that could be a low that would hold I don't disagree with that is at that either so what that
does is kind of pinch it between this maybe upper bound it might be somewhere
around a 200-day moving average or 50-day moving averages that we we've
dropped below depending on which ticket you're looking at and those lows from the big sell-off last week so uh or two i
guess that's two weeks ago so uh looking at that range i don't would be surprised to see continued
you know rejections at key levels whether it's 20-day moving averages uh prior support levels
that now flip to resistance um and taking you taking these trades in this market and taking profits really quickly because if you get it right, odds are good that it's going to be wrong maybe within the hour.
But definitely within 48 hours, odds are good you're going to get different directions.
Have been taking nice trades in the morning and then leaving runners.
nice trades in the morning and then leaving runners and almost every time they kind of
you know as far as day trades are concerned they're they're kind of petering out because of
the whipsaw nature of the market so um when it comes to swing trades feeling the same way
also as soon as i hit key levels taking the majority of positions off keeping positioning
small um i do like some of the setups for some explosive upside potentially, but I have a hard time getting too excited given a lot of the negative headlines.
It's really a headline-driven market.
So sizing, keep that small.
That kind of helps mitigate any major disasters.
Definitely keep those stop losses in check, but you kind of have to have them a little wider these days if you are doing these quick swing trades like I like to do.
Because if you are tightening your stops and this volatility, you're just going to get stopped out repeatedly and continue to drop funds.
So better to have a smaller position and a wider stop is my thinking in this market.
And it'll keep you in the trades longer but overall the cues again mentioned you got the death cross you got a
rejection at the 20-day simple moving average got a relative strength index below the 50 and below
the midway it is trending upwards but not looking great and could easily reject here is if we get, you know, another rejection at the 20 day moving average, for example, you know, below the 200 day
overall and just putting in lower highs continuously. So until a higher high is put in
with some conviction on some decent volume and, you know, it doesn't sell off at the end of the
day or overnight until that really happens for the major indices and in the queues, you know, it doesn't sell off at the end of the day or overnight until that really happens for the major indices and in the queues.
You really like to see it in the queues, given the strength of the names in that ETF.
Until I see that, it's really going to be a more cautious approach to any upside trades and you can get pretty aggressive on some downside.
But again, be wary of the explosive
upside that could occur if we get a squeeze. So yeah, it's not one for the faint of heart.
I mean, I love this environment, quite frankly. I like this short-term trading. I don't like to
spend too much time in front of the screens. So for me, I am enjoying it. It's kind of set it and
see what happens on a daily basis.
But it is not something that I would say is super easy to learn in this environment.
So pay attention to these guys on the panel.
There's a lot of folks way smarter than I am giving out good information.
So hand it back to you.
I look forward to giving out picks this week and hearing how everybody did.
Beautiful.
Well said, Nate.
And you and nick both mentioning
that death cross it is interesting if you go back and look at some of the previous ones there
usually is a dead cat bounce or rally like right when the death cross happens so i wonder if we
start to get that uh and then of course uh a lot of those times it does continue the downtrend later
so it'll be interesting to see how that plays out. It's definitely on my chart. Thank you both for mentioning that. Mr. Chris Patel, what market
sentiment thoughts do you have for us this afternoon? So one of the things that we saw
last week was this massive sell-off in treasuries, primarily because some of the fallout effects of
the Trump administration's announcements on tariffs. Originally, I had thought that maybe
some of this was just retaliatory by other countries dumping treasuries. But from the
data that I'm seeing, that's not necessarily the case. This is just a blow up on something called
the basis trade. And now that the basis, basically that it's been revealed and Susan Collins from the
treasury pretty much came out and said
explicitly that, you know what, if liquidity starts to have issues, that they're willing
to step in and provide a cushion for this trade to unwind. I don't think the trade is going to
take very long to unwind, especially in a healthy market. And we're starting to see that already. So I'm going to go long on treasuries by going long on TMF,
which is the triple leverage long bond.
I think a lot of people kind of like got shooken out of treasuries because of
the sudden rise in it.
But the reason why it happened was actually just a lot of uh a lot of um a lot of that trade unwinding so
i don't think we have enough time to explain the whole like basis trade phenomenon but it's
something that really was a major major unwinding that's uh that that caused bond yields to spike up
um now you're starting to see scott percent and some of the news coming out that maybe the trade
traps are not going to be that high um going forward with trade deals likely in the wings. And then on top
of it, we had a really cool inflation read last week. So when you combine all that stuff,
Treasury should be trading at a much lower rate than they're currently trading at. So
not to mention rate expectations are growing by the day because of the softness and inflation read.
So I'd say right now is a great time because there's multiple catalysts on the horizon
to unwind this thing and basically provide a nice little return for those willing to,
you know, jump in a little bit right now. So I'm going to go long on TMF. And then the other one I'm going to stick
with is Venture Global. I think along with all these trade deals, you're starting to see like
pickup in long-term LNG contracts. Venture Global, in my opinion, has been very oversold relative to
the guidance that they have on their EBITDA going forward. And at the same time, they've got another project
that's literally going to be announced anytime now.
That's going to be a pretty large project called CP2.
They've already got off takers that they're working to renegotiate
with some higher liquefaction fees.
And some of the newer fee structure
is value accretive to long
term shareholders. So I think the market
is really overlooking this sector
especially considering that
that's something that in a trade negotiation
actually benefits both sides.
countries on the other
end of it, they're looking for more
energy and they want to diversify away from being beholden to Russia.
So the U.S. is a natural partner in that.
And now that we have all these facilities coming online, it just makes it easier for us to negotiate a trade deal saying, look, we'll keep the tariffs off if you buy more U.S. LNG.
we'll keep the tariffs off if you buy more us LNG.
And I think that's going to be a nice five, 10, 15 year, even, um,
growth sector. So, yeah.
All right. TMF triple leverage TLT and VG venture global from Chris Patel.
Chris, I can give you a shout out.
I actually picked up some VG in my portfolio
based off of some of your DD. I obviously did some of my own beyond that, and I liked it.
It actually has had a nice return over the last week. So I'm going to give you some kudos on that.
I love getting the different ideas from all the great pickers and thoughts on this show. So
thank you for that one, Chris. And TMF and VG from Chris Patel.
All right, Jordan, we haven't heard from you yet on this space.
Want to see if you've got market sentiment, and then we'll fill in the rest of these stock
picks for the week.
Yeah, I mean, lately it's interesting when market sentiment.
I feel like I'm kind of just constantly switching around.
I'm really just trying to align timeframes intraday as much as possible. But when I look at this market on a higher timeframe aside, I really don't listen to any of the news
or any of the crap coming on the end, like the news or the internet, any of that I'm
sheerly just interested in the charts. And no matter what news is coming, I just want to know
the time and whether it's red folder or not, because it'll just bring volatility, right? And I just want to know the times that volatility is broad, whether it's
positive or negative. I really don't care. The charts are going to just, the volatility that
comes from these news moves is just going to confirm already what I'm seeing in the charts.
So only interested in the charts. And based on what I'm seeing, I mean, markets looking decent
so far. we're holding some
big spots from last week after that giant bounce we had I would love to see last week's Wednesday
high come into play and if we can get strength over that I'm really looking for the previous
Wednesday's high you've noticed the last two weeks I mean these Wednesdays have just been the day we
have really reversed the trend and sold off so those have been the highs of week previous highs
of week I'm looking for those to get tapped into if we can get them. It'd be amazing to tap into
March 26th high, but I don't know if we'll get all the way there. I do have some spots in between.
So I'm feeling pretty bullish. Obviously, things can change that. If NQ were to rug right back
under that like 17, 800, I'm not so bullish anymore. So things can change pretty quickly.
And I think that's what's hard for a lot of people in this market is you got to be able to flip your bias.
Like I came into today with higher timeframe bullish bias, exactly how I'm talking right now,
except I made all my money short today. And all the potential plays I had were all shorts today,
right? So I can come in with a certain higher timeframe bias. But at the end of the day,
sorry, I just got a call. At the end of the day, you know, going to let the intraday move speak to me.
And yeah, that's what we've been doing.
So definitely tougher markets on expert mode, it feels like.
So if you are learning in this environment, just know, I mean, if you're doing good here
and if you're, you know, really learning a solid strategy, you're going to kill it in
a bull market.
Just know that.
But yeah, looking for these highs. If we want to keep selling off, I'm totally fine with that. I
really don't mind just taking the market day by day. But I would love to see some of this previous
week highs get tapped into before we want to go lower. I think that would be nice for the market,
even if we want to sell off lower, just a nice little relief bounce. Maybe we get to,
I think we almost reached one, but maybe one of the 0.5 FIB
retracements. I think if you run it from the highs of the market to the lows we just made,
I think we're still trading under that. I don't have it in front of me at the moment or else I
would tell you. But yeah, I'd definitely be looking for some sort of rebalance into that area
and then look to go lower. But again, just taking the market day by day because my thoughts can just
change so
quickly with the volatility. So I think staying in that kind of mindset, being able to flip-flop
a little bit and just take your shots where the risk-reward is good, I think is key right now.
So we're just going to continue to do that, but feeling good about the market until I see different.
Well said, Jordan. We have 15 minutes here until the top of the hour. We are going to have another great conversation when we get to that point.
And we have four pickers up here on stage to get picks from. And I'm going to go over to who I'm calculating as the winner for last week, Trader Nate.
You've worked your way up the podium. I think you were third place a couple times, second place,
and we had a slight data issue for some reason, our data service provider.
But calculating this out, it looks to me like you were the winner here,
and I'm calculating around a 14% to 15% average return between your two picks,
PLTR and HUD.
PLTR went up over 11% and HUD almost 19%. So great job, trader Nate,
you, uh, you have the trophy for this week and boom, there you go. Winner, winner, winner.
Uh, I love it. I, uh, I just decided this week to add that sound effect. So that we'll see if that
we'll see if that sticks, but trader Nate like that. We'll see if that sticks.
But Trader Nate, what are your two picks for this upcoming week?
Yeah, I appreciate it.
That was great.
I love the addition to the show here.
It's getting better every week.
And it's already top quality.
So yeah, great week. Again, I really like to do the week by week swing trading and swing trades and really find those rare opportunities
and where we can get some outside gains, some real beta. So I hope to continue the podium run.
I think I missed one week in there. So the streak was broken. So I got to start a new streak here.
So yeah, thanks again. And this week, I'm going to try to thread the needle, quite frankly. So
maybe I didn't realize I was on the podium. So maybe it sounds cocky, but I'm going to try to thread the needle, quite frankly. So maybe I didn't realize I was on the podium, so maybe it sounds cocky.
But I'm going to take one long and one short.
And so we'll start with the long, and that is going to be Rocket Companies, RKT.
I'll post these charts as well and pin them up top as soon as I'm done yapping here.
But on this Rocket RKT chart, you can see on the daily,
it has put in lower lows,
which is not great from a longer-term perspective.
But every time it's done,
so it's put in these long bullish wicks.
And it did that on Friday.
And then today continued with some big upside.
I think Rocket was up close to, yeah, just over 8% today.
It hit the 1286 number
on the close and you know it previously kept pushing up towards about 1580 which is about a
20 run from here so looking to see if rocket can push towards 1580 again so i'll go long rkt in my
first pick and then honestly i keep second, but I'm going to stick with
this. I mentioned that we got some range trading showing up and CrowdStrike is, I think, is going
to show us an example of that. So I'm going to go short CRWD this week. It's rejecting off of
some resistance here around 390 today. And it continues through i think it just follows right
back down towards the 320 level which is where anchored view out from its lows come in i'll go
ahead and post this as well but i think that you know with the 50-day moving average also right
there at 390 getting the rejection any move lower from here we'll see some continuation so i'll go short CRWD. So if you're in the audience and maybe one of them says something that you think is smart, you like, check them out.
Give them a follow. Go in a little bit deeper into their content.
We do appreciate all of their time.
And with that said, Mr. Nick Drindle, you are up to bat next.
All right. I think I'm going to roll back my short on Yeti again.
So I'm always looking for stocks that are making relative weakness if I'm going short.
And that had a really nice move on Wednesday, made new lows, then rallied all the way back
up to the 10-day.
But we gapped down.
And unlike some of the growth stocks that I mentioned earlier, we didn't rally back
into that area.
In fact, we closed back under all the key moving averages today, the five, the 10, all that. And on a weekly chart, this just looks like a giant H pattern where
it traded sideways for about three years, and now it's starting to accelerate to the
downside. So if we do have that continued market weakness or just market volatility,
this was in a downtrend already. It's probably looking for any reason to sell off more. And I think I'm just going to continue to play that to the downside.
So that's Yeti. And keep going back and forth, but I think I'm going to go short RCL,
which is Royal Caribbean Cruises, which really pains me because in two weeks, I will
be taking a Royal Caribbean cruise. I really enjoy it. But it's another stock that if people
are a little worried about the economy, about their spending, about potentially all these
new tariffs, they're probably not going to be taking as many vacations.
And this is another one that had that gap down on, I think that would be Thursday,
no rally on Friday, gapped up to the 10 day, but then closed below the five day today.
And instead of kind of wedging higher, it's just been getting weaker and weaker. This is one that had a monster run already.
We had a monster run, very sharp fell off,
rally back through the 200-day and the 20-day,
but then a gap down after that rally and just continued weakness.
Looking to take this through the low from today,
right around that 190 range and then just have my stop at at the 200 day to manage the risk to the upside.
Right. Nick Drendel with two shorts, the first person to go double short in a while,
actually, since I've been doing the show here, I think you're the first person to actually
go double short here. So running back short Yet yeti which last week did have the initial drop came back a little bit still had
a green trade on that or a green pick i should say and then rcl and uh that is interesting that
you're about to go on a cruise and you decided you want to short them into that that that's
interesting but short the coolers and short the cruises. That's Nick Drindle's mindset. You did have a
great pick last week as well. Of course, like I said, Yeti short last week did finish green.
TQQQ was a 9% winner. So great pick for you last week and the Nick Drindle going Yeti and RCL
on the short side this week. I will say this as a caveat. I think anyone who made a pick last week, based on what happened Wednesday,
Tuesday into Wednesday, I think everyone's picks were probably green nicely at some point,
no matter what direction they were.
But we did end up the week with some very nice picks,
and I think most of us beat the market pretty well.
So great job to the team, and let's continue here uh mr gav
blacksburg what picks do you have for us this week yeah yeah i'm excited to throw a couple
into the mix here appreciate you calling on me it's been a very interesting market um man
wish uh weevil hadn't run so much already. Kind of denying that one.
Sorry, one sec, gotta sneeze.
Okay, I'm back.
Uh, all right, so, thank you.
Um, so, okay, a couple things that I've been looking at have already been taken, so it does make it always a little bit more difficult, um, but I don't mind a little bit of a challenge.
I feel like at this moment, one thing which I'm still really liking
and just curious to see how far it can go is GLD gold.
Has anyone already taken gold?
Has anyone taken a double leverage gold?
Do I have GLD?
Paper games usually go for this.
Jordan, do you know what the double leverage gold is?
The GLDX?
GDXU, I believe.
GDXU?
I think so.
I think that's the one.
That's triple leverage gold miners
that's that's a whole other uh that's the wrong one but that thing's going crazy you know let's
take that one i actually like that nuts um wow maybe that was okay maybe gdxu baby we're riding
that 150 year to date 70 in the past week. Oh, buddy. Oh, buddy.
All right.
GDXU.
Yeah, I knew I wanted something with gold.
Oh, George.
I see George messaging me NUGT.
Shout out Nugget.
This is the same exact thing, except it's just double leverage.
But George, I want max leverage.
So I'm taking that triple leverage.
But shout out Nugget.
Nugget was one of the first ETFs slash stocks that I ever traded.
Wow, I was trading Nugget high school.
Jesus, long time ago, long, long time ago.
Yeah, and then for the other one that I'm going to take here.
All right, I'm going to go with something a little bit more safe for my other one that is
still having a great year date and waste management wm it's up 14 and a half percent year to date
it's up eight and a half percent in the past week this thing doesn't go down it's up uh pretty nice
so i'm just gonna keep taking that one um so golden golden trash two things that i don't think are going out of style anytime soon
gold and trash gdxu and waste management wm both on the long side from mr gav blacksberg
interesting i like those picks actually gold very interesting very resilient uh you know i keep
watching that thinking okay it's gonna blow its top off. It's going to pull back. And, well, here we are.
And today, a day that it probably should have, it's only down half a percent.
So it is very, very interesting to watch gold.
And I know a lot of people, a lot of chatter around those gold miners in a bunch of our spaces.
So GDXU and WM from Mr. Wolf Financial, we'll call it.
That's how I'm going to put it on the tweet here in just a moment.
And Jordan, let's hear your picks,
and then I'll throw mine into the mix at the end.
We got Netflix earnings coming up.
Did anybody pick NFLU?
Nobody, and you picked that last week.
It performed pretty decently.
They did have a story after hours.
They expect to be a $1 trillion company by 2030.
It just came out in the last hour or so, just over an hour ago.
And yeah, earnings on Thursday with the market closed on Friday.
Let's run it.
So I'll do that long.
What else we got?
Let's just run.
Is TQQQ taken?
No one has taken anything on the indices
it's sketchy because i'm bullish but it might only be for like two days we'll see depending on
what we see in the rest of the week but i'll take the shot i'll take the shot let's run it
tqqq long too leverage baby so jordan leverage dot two times netflix that's nfl u on the long side and then tqqq the
triple leverage qqq on the long side from ace the kid all right that is everyone's picks on the
panel except for mine let me throw mine in the mix so I can get a tweet posted here and get that
up in the nest. Before we roll over this conversation in just a moment, let me make sure I get GDXU in
here, and then I'll hit mine real fast. I'm going to hit send on the tweet. Boom, post. All right. This is going up top. My two picks. There are two names that I own
that I am looking at. They're both over the 50-day moving average. There are not many stocks out
there right now over their 50-day moving averages. And because of that, they're a little bit safer,
Safer, maybe a little bit riskier on the side of they are up and they have been doing well,
maybe a little bit riskier on the side of they are up and they have been doing well.
but it's going to be Mercado Libre. That's ticker M-E-L-I. It's essentially your Amazon
and more for Latin America. So I'm going to take that one. That's Melly, M-E-L-I, Mercado Libre,
and then Walmart, W-M-T. So Guelph went with W WM. I'm going with WMT two names though. They're
both retail type of names. Um, but I I'm just looking at these, I'm looking at the strength
in them. They they've both been very strong, but over their 50 day moving average, I just,
that stuck out to me. So that's where I'm going to go with those picks. Let me get this pinned
up top in the nest. Boom. There is for everyone to take a pick there.
And that's it.
We appreciate all the stock pickers that came on tonight.
Gav, who do you think is going to win outside of yourself?
Well, obviously me.
Who's going to take second place?
Who's going to take second place behind you?
Second place?
Oh, gosh, man.
That's a great question.
Emp, you're like the GOAT spaces host out here. So I'm going to give you second place because you work hard, gosh, man. That's a great question. Emp, you're like the GOAT spaces host out here.
So I'm going to give you second place because you work hard for it, man.
So I believe in you.
I appreciate that. We'll see what happens.
We'll see if we get another week like this past week where literally anything
that you picked was nicely green in either direction at some point or another.
I don't know. I think Trader Nate's on a heater
right now. I mean, I don't know if we go with him. Ben's not here, so we kind of have an added
advantage. I do want to shout out Ben from Story Trading. He couldn't make it today. He was out of
the office. Ben last week had our best individual pick of the week, Berna, that he went on a deep dive about BYRN, a 21.8% return last week.
So shout out to Mr. Story Trading.
And with that, I think we are ready to roll this conversation in just a minute.
And did we get the team up here?
George, are you up here with us on stage?
Yeah, man, I'm here.
That was an awesome last 15 minutes.
I was going to chime in. I love gold. I'm'm long gold but i think short term i'm gonna take dust
because i think gold's gonna take a bit of a hit just temporarily that it's had a hot run
so it's funny because you guys were taking uh the triple long gold there
that is the 2x uh inverse isn't it? No, that's the gold miners.
I'm going to gain gold for just a little bit.
Just a little bit.
But I'm bullish constructive for the rest of the year.
That's for sure.
Well, if you want, by the way, so again, dust is double leveraged.
If you want triple leveraged, you could go for dull, D-U-L-L.
That's your triple leveraged gold inverse.
And shout out, by the way dull fun fact when that
was launched at the New York Stock Exchange
I was on the stage
for the bell ringer so that one's
got a special place in my heart
that's destiny
yeah maybe I should have taken
shiny for today that's their triple leveraged
long but really cool stuff
alright I'm going to listen to this convo
looking forward to this one thank you Nick as well for your picks nate everyone let's get tropic up on
stage i see in the audience george is alan uh labukan one of your guys i messaged you uh well
uh talal is the most important guy he's the ceo so he's he's he's the he's the most important guy
and alan barry yeah he's a friend he's a a great guy. Now, this is not his expertise.
He's a gold guy, but I'm sure he's going to have questions for us
when this is all ready to go.
Well, no problem.
I'll bring him up on stage two.
Yeah, how's it going, Alan?
Good.
I got a pick for you guys.
Can I get my pick in?
We'll take one more pick, and then we will roll into the next chat.
No penny stocks, Alan.
Oh, I got a good one for you guys
tslz or z wherever you are it's the uh triple etf bear on um on tesla my thesis is that tesla has
sales problems uh going down in there are three key markets which are america china and the uh euro
uh i think that they've also got costs going up with the recalls with the cyber trucks and uh And it just is now going through, as of today, a death cross.
So, yeah, I bought it five times.
I'm down on three of those buys, nowhere on one and up on one.
So, yeah, that's my big pick.
All right.
All right.
Let's get to the subject of the hour.
Yeah, let me roll us into this. So thank you, George, first off, for putting this on my radar.
If anyone hasn't checked out George over at Agoracom, you're missing out. Really great
trusted discovery platform for small cap stocks, which, you know, you have to find the riches in
the niches when it comes to small caps, right? You can't just shoot and pray like sometimes you can with the large.
You have to be able to be focused in, do your research, and have a good understanding of
what you're investing in.
And so I will give that shout out to George because he does it better than anyone else
that I know.
And so with that being said, he put one on my radar recently.
This is Z-E-F-I.
And this is Zephyro.
Apologies. Zephyro. So we have the founder and CEO, Talal is up on
stage with us right now. Thank you, Talal Debs, for being here as well. And we're going to have
a conversation and we're going to dive into this. And really the most important thing,
and I'm going to do a quick disclosure in a second, but the most important thing here when
it comes to all these small caps is actual revenue, right? There are so many
companies out there that are just trying to prop up nothing at the end of the day, right? But these
guys are doing $50 million, I believe trailing 12 months in revenue with a very, very unique
business proposition, which to be honest, before George put on my radar, I would not have even
thought how somebody could do $50 million in this area. So
you've done an amazing job with it. George, before I do a quick disclosure and get us into it,
is there anything you want to say off the top? I've been doing this for 27 years,
and I don't have to say anything about anybody if I don't actually feel it. Between business plan,
market, and the management team that you're going to find out are a powerful set of ex-JPMorgan
folks. This is in the 99th percentile. Zafiro, by the way, is in the 99th percentile of companies
I've worked at. It's super exciting because while they're all for the world, they're creating great
shareholder value. So I think that's why everyone is going to love hearing about Zafiro from Talal Debs.
Perfect.
Okay.
Just off the top, as many of you know, I do a lot of work with different publicly traded companies, ETFs.
It's very important to make sure that people are aware of these advertisements.
This one specifically for Zafiro, it's a paid advertisement.
It's intended for informational purposes only.
We don't make recommendations or endorsements of specific stocks or investment strategies.
Investing involves risk, including the possibility of losing your entire principal.
Please always conduct thorough research. And if you feel the need to consult licensed financial advisor before making investment decisions, use this space as the starting point for your due
diligence and just dive in deeper. I did pin a post at the top of the space, which is from George,
where he did an extensive amount of research already for you.
So that's a great place to start and then just go from there.
And I'm sure that you'll hear more throughout the space that will kind of jog your mind
into, oh, well, let me go ahead and look into that.
With that being said, I want to give a big thank you to Talal for being here and kick
it over to you right off the bat for perhaps just a brief introduction of yourself and
who you are as we begin to talk about this company.
Hi there. Can you hear me?
Yeah.
Great. Thanks for having me.
Yes, we got you.
Yeah. So look, I've had at least two careers. I have a finance career, mostly at J.P. Morgan.
And I was an academic in the world of philosophy of quantum mechanics.
I can tell you one of them pays better,
but I've been very excited to be able to apply some creativity
to the design for building out Zafiro over the last couple of years,
and it feels in many ways like I'm bringing
all my different backgrounds together in this.
Yeah, I love to hear that. Maybe you could talk for just a second as to what those different
backgrounds are and why they're meshing perfectly into this area.
Sure. Well, look, my background at J.P. Morgan was mostly, well, I was an energy banker
and covered a lot of energy companies over the years.
And then I had a long stint with our commodities division out of the investment bank in New York.
And one of my, I became a sort of special teams man.
I did a lot of structuring and a lot of new products.
And one of the things I got to do was help set up the carbon trading desk for the voluntary carbon markets at uh at jv morgan and and another thing i got to do was um got to manage and run a team of
petroleum reservoir engineers uh for a couple of years through sort of 16 through uh the end of 17
sort of 16 through the end of 17 and very volatile time in the oil and gas markets.
And so really got a deep understanding of oil and gas balance sheets as well. And those things
all come together and the opportunity we saw in building a business to solve a major problem
your problem for the energy sector, which is also affecting the environment.
for the energy sector, which is also affecting the environment.
Beautiful, beautiful. Okay. So I'm going to, like I said, I shared that piece up top. And also,
George, you gave me some information from an interview. So just kind of high level here,
the industry is very interesting to me. So you guys are going out and you're cleaning up these
old wells that are leaking methane. And there's so many of these around the United States alone, right? There's 2.2
million estimated abandoned oil and gas wells in the United States. And the best part is the
government is already allocating money to companies to go out and fix this billions of dollars. But
really, I think your company sees a much bigger opportunity
than just what the government's putting out there,
estimating a $435 billion market opportunity.
And this is really one of the few companies
that's not only plugging old wells,
but turning the methane problem into a multi-million dollar,
$50 million, there you go, I believe, TTM, opportunity, right?
As you continue to get the stream and continue
to build it up. And these last six quarters are really good looking. So just for anyone that
hasn't seen it, in Q2, ending December 31st, 2024, that was 7.48 million. Then Q1, ending September
30th, 2024, 10 million, which is up 26% versus the prior Q1. And then in the year ending June 30th,
that was $32.75 million in revenue, up 447% over 2023. So it seems to me like you are rapidly
escalating. Can you give us a glimpse into the depths of the company? What's going on behind
the scenes? What are the operations like? How is this escalating so fast? Sure. Thanks for asking. Look, we're really, in some ways, a very simple company.
And in some ways, we think we're very original. So what we do on the ground is we have all the
teams, the rigs, the equipment needed to remediate all the environmental cleanup at the end of an oil field's life.
And that's mostly around the plugging of old oil and gas wells, which, as you probably imagine,
there's no incentive for a lot of operators to plug and remediate these sites, really.
And so as a result, there are, as you've noted, millions of these sites out there that need cleanup. And so when we started this, we realized there weren't any
companies that were specifically saying, this is all we want to do on a national level.
There's a lot of good operators that are small, privately held, but no one has really decided to
get to the scale that we're at.
So part of our growth capability is because we're able to bring along experienced teams
through acquisition and through acquiring teams and equipment and give them economies
of scale to do services they've been doing for a long time.
And that's sort of the base layer of our business, which is getting paid by E&P companies
to clean up oil wells.
And that's kind of the low risk baseload of the cash flows you see.
On top of that, we see a ton more of upside. You mentioned the $4.7 billion that the U.S. government has put out
there for the plugging of old orphaned oil and gas wells. And that is a market that we find we're
highly successful in bidding for that. So far, our success rate has been about 20 to 25 percent
of dollars that have been dispersed from the government in our catchment
areas, which are six states in the U.S., growing quickly. We get about 20%, 25% of that business.
So we figured that's a pretty big growth driver for us at our current scale. And then finally,
another uncorrelated revenue stream is that because of my experience
back in the day of setting up the carbon desk at J.P. Morgan, I realized that investors will pay
for a high quality proof. If you like, we use the word proof of work. Proof we've done the work
to clean up these oil fields and investors will pay for that. And in many cases,
these old wells are leaking enough toxins into the air, and we can prove that, and we can get
paid to do the work. So that gives us another uncorrelated revenue stream. So by bringing all
those three uncorrelated revenue streams together on a platform that does only one thing,
which is environmental services for end-of-life oil fields. We've been able to drive unit costs
down, equipment usage up, and really drive an engine for growth.
Yeah, it really is interesting to me because it just makes a lot of sense, right? You have
toxic gas coming in. The government really has to protect citizens. And I don't think people
understand how toxic some of these methane gases are as well. It's really not something that you
want to be inhaling in any way, shape, or form. It's way more dangerous than even CO2 and some of these
other pieces. And so the fact that you can get multiple uncorrelated revenue streams in this
area makes it very interesting to me. Let's talk a little bit about valuation. And so right now,
when you look at small caps as a whole are just getting obliterated by the market, and then you
have tariffs and all this other stuff. So when you look out at the stock at market opportunity, where do you see this company going
from a finances perspective and ideally a valuation perspective over the next few years,
as far as you're able to talk to that? Sure. Well, I mean, the core thing that we talk about a lot is
the fundamentals are going to always speak to the market eventually.
That's our belief.
And so we've got a core business that's delivered, as you've said, approximately 50 million since
we got started, you know, really with the scaled business, which is about six quarters.
and we're growing at a really nice clip organically.
And we're growing at a really nice clip organically.
But, you know, in terms of our valuation,
you know, we see ourselves as an environmental services business.
You mentioned one market leader,
waste management earlier on the call.
I quickly looked up their stock
and actually we've been moving similar to them over the last month.
So, you know, it could be total luck.
But the point is,
that's where we want to be, because we're not, that's our closest comp. We're doing sort of
uncorrelated returns all around this important theme of detoxifying roughly one-sixth of the
service area of the U.S. and in Canada that has effectively been drilled for oil.
And if we don't clean it up as a society and as an economy, then we won't be able to use that
land for other things. And I think that, you know, as investors come to appreciate our multiples in that area, I see a lot of upside as we gain liquidity.
And then growing the core business, you know, look, we plug a few hundred wells a year now on our current footprint.
We are on our way to plugging 5,000 wells a year by 2030.
That's our moonshot.
And it is achievable. And when we get to that,
we'll be 10 times our current size on revenue. And so to me, there's not a lot of companies
out there that can offer good multiple expansion and really provable growth that's coming through the roll-up of existing businesses
into an accretive platform and the delivery of new revenue streams to support that growth.
Hey, Talal, if I can jump in there, guys, for a second.
You just touched on it there.
5,000 wells will make it 10 times bigger.
If you don't mind um i know no two wells
are the same talal but maybe give everyone a ballpark of revenue per well that you generally
look to generate because these aren't just simple show up put a cap and take off uh
they're it's extensive work and there are 2.2 million wells and you're hoping just to get to 5,000 per year to become 10 times bigger.
So if you can talk to everyone a little bit about the economics of what a well type of looks like when you guys were reading it.
Yeah, absolutely. The way we plug wells, which is the highest standard really in the U.S. in Appalachia, which is where the industry began.
It's about $100,000 a well through the cycle. Some wells could be much more expensive,
$500,000 U.S. Certainly, there are some wells that are over a million.
And there are some wells you'll hear about that are considerably lower cost,
and those are very, very shallow and not really where we really focus.
And so, you know, we use $100,000 per well
as kind of a good revenue proxy.
Yeah, so at 5,000 wells a year,
people can do the math pretty quickly there.
And it adds up to an incredible, what, $500 million?
It's about a $500 million expected revenue stream.
Yep.
Wow.
We got, yeah.
I also like to tell you, like, you know, I'll just say, as you've been,
I mentioned three revenue drivers, you know, oil and gas companies,
government funds and and carbon markets.
And what I'd like investors to understand is that all three of those have bullish signals for us.
The oil and gas companies are being driven to, in the current economy, produce more energy because there's a lot of demand for energy and keep their costs low.
The backlog of these old oil and gas wells are probably one of the single biggest collectively,
one of the biggest single line items of cost for these companies. And they, you know, they have
really, because of the way the industry works, we're dealing with a multi-decade backlog.
because of the way the industry works, we're dealing with a multi-decade backlog.
And so we expect to see more and more demand for us as oil companies look to cut their costs
and have the money to drive new activity. And then, you know, for government-funded stuff,
it is blowing and going. People were worried about the change of administration in the U.S.,
but that is not the case. Nothing's been held up. There was some delay towards the change of administration in the U.S., but that is not the case.
Nothing's been held up.
There was some delay towards the end of last year, but this year looks strong.
And on the carbon offset side, the carbon credit side for methane abatement, you know, we're seeing more demand than we've seen in a long time.
And I think that's because of a number of factors, but one of them
may relate to a couple of things you mentioned on one of your prior contributors mentioned about
the demand for liquefied natural gas in the global energy market. The energy market is global,
and the demand does require proof of low carbon intensity, proof of net zero goals, depending on the market.
And the work we do has about as good a chance of any work to be considered as qualifying for that.
And so we see growth markets in the low intensity hydrocarbon market as well.
It's a devil's advocate.
The great thing about this business, there are 2.2 million wells out there but it's physically intensive this is not
an ai software company where you can scale thousands of percent uh in in a year so devil's advocate
how do you scale this because it's when i when when everyone hears you talk i know when i first
heard you speak i started thinking about landman and Billy Bob Thornton great
business yeah it's always gonna be there but you see it very physically
intensive how do you guys scale and in order to grow and capture those 5,000
wells per year by 2030 sure well look that's that's a huge problem there's a
number of dimensions that I could talk to about how we've scoped this. But the easiest way to describe it is, you know, how did Uber scale a taxi company to be a global taxi company and drive down costs?
technology. And so what we've pioneered is through our chief
technology officer, who's a former partner at Bain and Deloitte.
And we put together something called the Zafiro lifecycle
solution. It is you would encounter it as an app on your
phone. But what it really is, is a full custody suite in the
cloud to allow our field teams and outsourced field teams to go and measure,
find, and calibrate well leaks across the 2.2 million wells that you talked about
and do it in a modern way where they're being tracked real time. We're seeing the data.
We're able to guide them. And we don't necessarily have to have everyone on staff all the time. So
we're going to be using some of those same find-through methods. And the other thing we're
using is AI. And there's a lot of gimmicky reference to AI, but one of the sort of old
news pieces of AI is machine learning. Machine learning is great at estimating natural phenomena.
And one of the things we've done, and we are now, we think, the first people to have this,
is our own proprietary dashboard of all of those millions of wells mapped and estimated as to how
much we think it'll cost to plug them, clean them up, and how much methane they're leaking.
And we have the ability to match those and send teams out to focus on where the most damaging
sites are across the whole lower 48, and of course course across Canada. So with the incredibly powerful tools
that are available now, we're already able to really zero in and focus on the most leaky wells
as quick as possible. And now getting to the physical piece, we have to get, you know, crews
out into all 26 of these states.
We're currently only in six, so we've got a lot of growing to do.
But one of the things that happens a lot in the current industry,
which this is usually serviced by service companies that spend most of their time drilling wells frankly since we don't do that we can really drive
regularization and get everyone in the field at higher and higher penetrations so there's a lot
of excess capacity that isn't getting booked because other companies don't have three separate
work streams three seven revenue streams rather so the answer is we're driving it through rig utilization and
modern data and targeting. I think Billy Bob Thornton would be proud.
Of course, we love landmen. We need them too. Yeah, I think we got to find a way. If there's
anybody on this right now that has any connections to the Landman production crew, we need to find a way to get you guys on as a cameo.
But it's amazing that as you're talking, that's exactly what I think.
Wolf, I don't want to keep interrupting you guys.
You guys might have questions as well to go ahead with.
Yeah, good.
And I want to make sure we can get around our panel as well, because I know that a lot of them will have thoughts on this. And it's very unique. We haven't really had a conversation like this on Spaces before, so I'm excited for it. Lady Trader, I see you reacting. Do you want to jump in?
I definitely would not have heard about them because they are such a small cap.
So I definitely, you know, big thanks to you for bringing some of these projects to light that we otherwise wouldn't hear about.
So I do have a question. So it seems like your team is utilizing AI as well as some drone technologies to kind of help with your processes.
And I know right now, AI is something that people are super bullish on,
everybody's super bullish on. Can you tell us a little bit more about how you are utilizing AI
just in a little bit more details than what's already been shared?
Sure. And the AI that we're using is, um, relatively low cost. We don't need, um,
powerful, uh, new data centers to train our neural nets. What this is is relatively
off-the-shelf neural network technology that's been around for a while but hasn't had always
the best use case. So we're using the data that we obtain in the field when we're out,
you know, cleaning up sites, plugging wells, as well as when our survey teams are looking for
leaky wells.
We're scraping data from existing satellites and new satellites that have gone up,
as well as for new flyovers that several companies have launched to look for methane leaks.
And we're ingesting all that into a cloud-based unified model,
which is in a sense a digital twin of all, well, there's about 10 million
wells in North America between the orphan wells that we've been talking about and on top of
that, the producing wells.
And so we can scrape public data, look at satellite data, and we ingest all of that.
look at satellite data, and we ingest all of that.
And then we ground truth that with our own teams.
And then we ground truth that with our own teams.
And we run that through our AI tool
to estimate where the likely leak rates will be.
What are they going to be the leakiest wells?
Based on geography, based on past history of production,
based on which is all publicly available.
And so it's kind of an AI implementer's dream
because a lot of the pieces of
the puzzle are just laying around. And we're fully integrating that into a tool that has a payoff,
which is if we find a leaky well that we know we can plug within a certain cost, then we can dispatch
a landman to go get that for us. And we can sell that proof of work, the contract that proves we did the work to our buyers and our buyers include some, you know, just publicly we can talk about Mercuria, which is a multi-billion dollar trading company.
EDF Trading, which is the trading arm of the French sovereign energy company, which is
sort of spans the globe. And so we went for highly discerning buyers right out of the gate,
buyers that would be proud to list their names with us and let us PR that, which I think is
pretty rare when you look at buyers of products. So we're using the AI to deliver low cost,
high volume, offset units in an integrated way.
Thank you. That's incredible.
And then you did talk about the proof of work
and the sales that happened as a result of that.
Right now, there is a lot of discussions
that are happening around RWA, real-world assets, and I think there could be some pretty interesting use cases even for your company to kind of dive into RWAs because you could then expand it globally so much, right?
Tell us a little bit about if it's something that you guys have looked into.
What are your plans there, if any?
Well, you've just uncovered a little secret.
Our tech architecture is exactly what you need
for real-world asset data,
but we're focused on real-world environmental liabilities,
which, if you think about it, is just a negative asset.
And so we're one step away from taking our whole infrastructure
and being able to apply it in the field to real world assets.
And it gets a little bit to my own background.
You know, as a base finance is a big part of what I did for many years.
the environmental problem and break it down into bite-sized problems that we can deal
with rather than what's been happening as people look at the size of the problem, multi
hundreds of billions and generally get demoralized.
So we're trying to take very much that real world asset approach, but it's real world
liabilities.
Thank you. That's really awesome. And this is going to be my last question. So whenever we are investing, right, a lot of investors and even some of the newbies, right, that may be, especially the newbies, like people who are just getting into investments. Previously, they've always had their money managers or whoever was managing their 401 s handle their investments. And now they're like, there is a big push around people entering the investments market. They want to make more decisions. They want to
learn more. And so what you are essentially offering is really an impact investing, which
is not something that a lot of people are looking at. Most people are looking at tech,
what's happening there, or diversifying in different sectors like miners or you know whatever like ai is one sector right
now that's pretty big tech is another one quite a few you know biotech and all of those combined
but then really not a lot of focus on impact investing and which is what you are offering
how could we uh like what do you do to kind of,
you know, bring more visibility into your project
and then also encourage investors to kind of look into it
as a pretty viable small cap investment
that could, you know, get a pretty awesome ROI
if you're good with it.
Well, listen, that's part of the battle
is we're building a new kind of a company.
It doesn't really fit within traditional.
We're painting sort of between the lines a little bit.
But in a way, we are in a way we're not.
It's a little bit like when we first started, I had some investors saying, well, you're just an oil services business.
You have rigs and cement trucks.
And I said, that's like saying that FedEx
is an airline. Okay. It's a way of reimagining tools that are there to a real problem that's
super profitable. And so we're not exactly like old world impact companies because we are oriented
around being profitable and protecting our investors from the traditional lines.
But we're also oriented, we're oriented towards a goal that is an impact goal.
And so, you know, my hope is that there's going to be other sort of mission driven companies like this.
And I think that for new investors coming in and the younger generation,
my hope is that the mission-driven aspect of things really does capture their imagination.
Because in my years of experience building businesses and on Wall Street and in academia,
I have rarely seen an opportunity set to do something of such high impact financially,
environmentally, and philosophically, conceptually for the markets as we have here at the FIRA.
We have a huge track in front of us to run down.
And so we like our investors to feel like they're joining us on a journey that's going to last for a number of years
and surprise us all, we hope.
Thank you. That's incredible.
And thank you for answering all my questions.
Back to you, Gav.
Perfect. Thank you so much, Lady Trader.
I'd love to get Tropic into the mix as well.
Tropic, do you have any thoughts or questions here?
Yeah, actually, I was listening and hearing a lot of different things. And of course, the numbers have caught my attention first. If I'm not mistaken, you said about two between two and three million wells in total for North America. And right now you're only doing 5,000. Or no, the goal is 5,000 by 2030. Was that correct? That's correct. So you see, even for us to become 10 times our current size,
our market penetration will still be scratching the surface of the demand.
Okay, yeah, that's what I had here. I was like, that seems very small compared to the total
market. So that's a good sign too, as well. The one question I do have is, even though
it's such a huge market anyways, that this might not even be a problem, but is this a one-time
service? Once it's capped, there's no ongoing maintenance inspections or anything of that
nature? Or is there potential for some sort of recurring service fee with these companies over the years? So currently it is a one-time service in a way
because once you've plugged a well, as long as the well stays plugged, there's nothing more to do.
But the services that we're looking to add to the market, because the buyers of our services
are becoming more demanding, is the contract to go back and annually reassess
and make sure that the job is holding for at least five years, but possibly 10 years
after each plugging job.
Now, that would be so far beyond what our competitors do that, you know, I think it
I think it would raise a lot of eyebrows.
would be, you know, would raise a lot of eyebrows.
But we see that.
We would rather, frankly, take a little bit less upfront,
guarantee our work, and be able to come back and check it
and really prove that it is a permanent solution.
And that's what also, at the end of the day,
the people who work for us, who live in these areas,
and the people whose lives will be affected if
we do a bad job or we did a bad job they like that kind of accountability so i definitely see
us moving in the direction of a longer term service model on that basis
really cool and the people that are working for, are these like direct employees in each area or are they like subcontractors that you're working with in certain regions and so forth? Do they work directly for you?
So our business model is fully integrated with employees that we can retain and retain their knowledge because a big part of this business is not only doing the job well, but also doing it safely.
This is dangerous work.
And as we scale, we want to continue to have our very remarkable safety record.
And you can't do that if you're having constant as well with subcontractors.
And so we're fully integrated. There are, you know, once in
a blue moon, there'll be a piece of equipment or a situation where we might need to lean on a
contractor, but we're fully responsible for all our work. But, you know, our current rig suite
and all of our yards are fully owned, controlled, and fully integrated at this stage.
Really interesting, too.
I do see Alan's hand shooting up, so I'll just have another question.
I don't want to hog all the time, but I do have a bunch of questions that I could ask.
If anything, you circle back to me.
I have one more that I'd like to ask related to what you just directly said.
You said that as you scale, the manpower needs to scale. So
in this particular market, I mean, that's a good thing in the sense that they have to physically be
on the site. So this is not like a job that you can outsource overseas. So I see that as a good
thing for local economies. But as far as the skill set needed for the people to do that, is there a pipeline of people that are qualified and willing and able to do those jobs?
Or is this something that like, as you scale up, might be the bottleneck going forward?
How is that finding talent?
Well, look, the answer is, you know, yes and no.
So, yes, we can work with most experienced operators that have been in oil services at some point in their lives and know how to be safe around heavy equipment and have a proven track record and have the requisite skills, the well control school and the various certifications required for working in an oil field.
and the various certifications required for working in an oil field.
And so we can draft off of what is a very large qualified workforce in North America.
But that workforce that often is involved on drilling rigs
suffers from highly episodic employment.
You know, they're all employed and then there's a downturn in the oil market
and they're all laid off.
So what we're able to offer is we're able to really take our pick from the folks within
that world that would like to have a steady salaried position with career progression.
And we're finding that's not really, you know, finding the people and training the people
is really not a limiter.
In fact, what our teams have excelled at doing and love to do.
Furthermore, because we're building this digital twin that I've talked to you about, which
really models out the way the oil fields are for our own use, you know, we're able to use that as
training material and training context. And increasingly, we built a virtual control center where essentially if teams are having trouble in the field, troubleshooting a well, you know, they're able to take advantage of our database and the senior execs that are back at base to help troubleshoot those wells. So as we do that, we're becoming a specialist in an area that companies that are active
in drilling become specialists in that.
And we're creating a center of excellence around remediation that really has not been
created at scale before in this country.
Thank you for answering those questions. Those are really interesting answers. And I find that
quite interesting as well. So as I pass the mic, if there is time, I'll circle back.
Well, I'll also add one thing that the infrastructure money does have a significant
amount of money set aside for retraining of workers.
And so, you know, while we have not yet taken advantage of that,
that is there for us.
Are you all still there?
Yeah. Hey, guys.
Was there anybody else in the queue? Well, I think it was Alan Barry, but I don't know if he's still there yeah hey guys who was there anybody else in the queue uh well i think sorry i was looking for alan barry but i don't know if he's still there i was looking for alan
but it looked like he dropped i was just waiting a second to see if he was going to pop in okay
no worries let's go over to ani let's go oh my god guys you guys are doing such a great job and
again i'm gonna echo um lady trader and tell you guys like bringing projects like this in front of people and raising awareness like this is like so
important so thank you wolf for everything that you guys do um but my question was um
you know environmental stuff are very difficult for uh people to understand what kind of I would
love to know like what kind of uh issues are you having or what kind of are you like going through
any kind of backlashes or anything like that and what's your number one um I would say like uh
like obstacle in terms of building what you're trying to do and uh what can we as like somebody
who's listening or somebody who's learning about you guys do in terms of like helping you guys raise awareness
about the project? Sure. So in terms of, you know, backlash, you know, I think a lot of,
you know, there are companies out there that are designing their business plans around
virtue signal of some kind or the other. We've tried to actually be very down to earth and talk
about what we're actually doing to clean up the environment. And we hope that, you know,
politically speaking, that we trust that people on both sides of the aisle, people who are more
interested in the environment or people who are more interested in industry, all have reasons
to get behind what we're doing. We're cleaning up communities. You know, look,
14 million of these wells are within a mile of where people live in the U.S. That's the stat
that I believe the Environmental Defense Fund created. But also we pay our employees, I think,
two times the median in the areas where we tend to work. And so we're a good employer.
And so we feel like, you know, we're not really worried about getting caught the wrong side of
things. I think the biggest thing that I'd like people to know is that we're highly substantial.
highly substantial. We don't overpromise. And there is a real engine beneath the hood. This is
not vaporware. And we'd love to see investors, you know, looking at our financials,
looking at our asset base, looking at our track record. And someone mentioned before about,
you know, growth
and the challenge of building an asset-heavy business at these rates. Well, you know, we're
growing through the cycle at about 20% a year organically. And we want to see our valuation
continue to reflect the growth we can bring. And it will allow us to grow in addition to that by acquisition.
And so the best thing that, you know, we would love to see the market do is to really just
dig deep, look at what we're doing and see if there isn't something they can get behind
so that they don't read us just on virtue signals one way or the other.
I love it.
And thanks for doing what you guys are doing.
Things like this.
Nobody really wants to go for environmental things like this.
So thank you for what you guys are doing and I hope you guys succeed in the future. Thank you. We're doing it.
So I hope you guys can join the journey.
Hey, I got a question. I got a question.
I go for it, George. we'll circle back around others uh no no if there are others
i'd rather give them a shot because i've i've already had it you know at the beginning of all
this so please give it to the others okay sure i'll go to tropic here and then zet
all right i will make it quick before i pass to zet uh related to the the three
streams that you guys have i the oil and gas companies, the governments, and the carbon credits?
What's the breakdown of that, like the percentages, if you will, like roughly?
Well, in the rearview mirror, it's basically, I would call it, and I don't have the exact stats in front of me, but the vast majority is oil and gas companies right now.
And second to that is the government-funded projects,
which is providing sort of additional fuel to the fire.
And then the third line of business,
which we pre-sold in the carbon markets,
but we have yet to actually book our first dollar revenues, which we expect to be coming soon.
And we'll be announcing that.
So that has not yet filtered into our results at all.
But looking forward, the way I think about this is we're roughly going to be a third, a third, a third between those three different revenue lines in five years.
roughly going to be a third, a third, a third between those three different revenue lines in
five years. And in any given year, you're going to see one of them dominate because they're not
correlated. And in some years, some of them will have remarkable growth because we've either hit a
new fluctuation in that market or there are different drivers. But that's the nice thing
about having sort of a mix of
revenue returns, because through the cycle, we expect them all to grow at least 20% a year
off our current base. Really cool. Yeah, it's actually what I had on paper here,
hoping that you said in that order, because if for whatever reason, the politicians can't agree
on what to spend money on, at least you know that the oil and gas companies always will have these
wells because at the end of the day, that's their stream and carbon credits and all that. Who knows
where that's going to go in the future and the political climates and so forth. But I think
that's really cool that the majority right now, the base is from the oil and gas credit. So,
or companies, I should say say so that's really cool
i'll pass it over to zack before you let me go to the next person i'll just say real quick
i was just honored to be on a panel um in um in texas which is they know a thing or two about
oil and gas it was hosted by jp morgan at tcu university and um it was called the Global Energy Symposium.
And why do I mention this?
Because it was about the energy market
and Texas's leading role in it.
It included the land commissioner
for the whole state.
It included, you know, Exxon was there.
Diamondback was there.
I mean, really leaders from the majors,
leaders from the independents. and every single person that got up mentioned emissions reduction and low
carbon intensity because they view that as either just part of the license for them to
work or they view that as an opportunity to drive value.
And this happened, you know, as I said,
week before last. So this is, in case you think the politics have changed and oil companies aren't
interested in cutting emissions, that's not at all the case. It's front and center. And this was,
you know, remarkable proof of that. So thanks for letting me reiterate that.
that. So thanks for letting me reiterate that.
Well, I'll go ahead and jump in. Thanks, Tropic, for all the great questions and all the great
panelists up here. What an awesome conversation and really excited to learn about this. I think
it's really neat. And this is why I love the Wolf Spaces so much you you really get to get educated on so many things so many incredible
things going on and why invest in why not invest in something that you can invest in impact investing
like lady trader was getting me hip too uh you know something that is both beneficial to
environmental and public health uh so i think that that's amazing and really cool to learn about.
What I was seeing is like carbon dioxide is, you know, well, obviously carbon dioxide is kind of
front and center. And I guess what I was going to say is what I saw is methane is like 25 to 85%
worse. Why do you think it has kind of a backseat to carbon dioxide? And is that one of the challenges you face?
Well, look, thanks for raising that.
Yeah, it's not just 25 to 85 percent. It's 25 to 85 times the greenhouse gas impact of CO2.
So one ton of CO2, you know, one ton of methane, you know, on a on a hundred on a 20 year look forward has the same warming potential as 85 tons of CO2.
So it's kind of a no-brainer that if you're worried about CO2, you should be worried about methane.
But what we focus on with methane is just there's a lot of CO2 has the impacts we hear about all the time in the news.
But methane is also literally a toxic gas.
It, you know, it can cause and does cause health issues.
It's also known as swamp gas.
Sometimes it blows up.
You know, it's no joke.
You know, it's no joke.
And it often carries impurities like H2S, which are responsible for deaths very regularly in the U.S., especially in the oil field.
And so, you know, look, methane is a lot more than just a greenhouse gas.
It's a toxic gas if it's going to be emitted out into the environment and in the communities now on the
other front it's probably one of our cleanest fuels for energy so our view is let's keep it in
the ground and have it go into a pipeline and that way it can be where it belongs
yeah that totally makes sense i was curious what is the process of capping these or the abatement?
What does that look like?
Sure.
So, it takes a crew and a rig.
The rig looks a little bit like, you know, it's a derrick.
It's got a little tower on it that you need to remove casing and get tools and equipment
down in the hole. But essentially what you do is you put, you know, a specialized seal way down in the well
where the oil or gas is coming from. That's called the producing zone. And you want to sort of
isolate that from the upper levels. And then we put a redundancy seal. We just do another one further up the pipe
so that that way, if there ever were a failure on the first one, we have a protection to protect
not just the air, but the water table from any produced fluids. And then we go in and we, what's called perforate,
we use downhole explosives to cut away any equipment
that is still sort of near the surface
and could be a hazard to people
or to be a hazard if someone wants to come along
and build a building.
So we'll remove the last, you know,
number of feet before the surface
so that really you just have, you know, clean earth and you really shouldn't
ever know that the well was there if you're standing there. Okay. Well, yeah, thanks for
giving me that kind of clarity around that process. And like I said, I just think it's
such a cool thing to learn about. This is the type of stuff that really interests me and excites me
the most when it comes like investing, finding something like this that could have a positive impact beyond just my pocketbook.
But I really love to, especially when there's like the bipartisan infrastructure law that's
providing 4.7 billion in a market that has estimated potential of 430 plus billion. So
anyway, I really appreciate all that insight and everything.
I'm sure George has a lot better questions, greater questions than I do.
So I'll go ahead and pass it to George before we part ways.
Thanks so much.
Oh, no, guys, these have been fantastic questions.
Everybody that's come on, every single one of them has been great questions.
Half of them I hadn't even thought about.
I got a bit of a wildcard question for you, which is maybe to end it off a little on a fun note maybe uh a lot of these wells that you're remediating
are old wells that were producing i'm assuming 40 50 60 years ago and that's why they're abandoned
because they aren't um they aren't the wells of existing companies that need your help uh
so you get there you remediate them.
Question for you, is there any chance,
because you're going back to these old wells,
which were pumping oil and gas based on old-based technology,
that you might be able to discover new reserves or additional reserves
just because they were producing on old technology and maybe you can introduce new
technology and actually generate another source of revenue potentially? I'm just thinking off the top
of my head. I mean, that is a question that a lot of people ask, you know, and, you know, the
millions of idle wells that are out there. Reservoirs, it's a well-known thing that reservoirs oil and gas reservoirs do
recharge over time um but i would say that um one of the things that we encounter i mean we
encounter wells that are so old that they have wooden casings so and you know or they might have
been plugged with a cannonball from the civil war not Not unusual. So, you know, we've got,
you know, actually a collector's item of strange things we pulled up from Wells
over the years at the headquarters of our operating company in Bradford, PA, where
the rigs are based and all of that work goes on.
But in terms of, you know, new energy opportunities,
look, we see a number of new energy opportunities in these wellbores and we assess them when we see them.
And if we think that there's something that can be done
to bring more energy to market, you know,
we want to be part of that solution.
We just don't want to be leaving something
that definitely needs to get cleaned up, just unrepaired and causing trouble.
One of the other things, in addition to the reservoir recharging, is, you know, a lot of these wells have geothermal potential.
And it's, frankly, one of our sister companies um gradient geothermal has been developing the
technology to do that and we would bring them in if we saw anything like that and so you're
absolutely right you got to be thinking about really doing the right thing for the economy
at all times but we're sure there's enough of these leaky wells where there's no question they
just need to be cleaned up that we're gonna have plenty of work to do at least for the next
generation or two well I had no idea that oil and gas was actually can recharge themselves I had no
idea about that so that I found that that's really interesting that's it for me this has been great
I'm not sure if there are any last questions
from the group guys, but you might want to feel those.
But otherwise, thanks for putting this on.
This has been really fantastic.
Yeah, I mean, I'll reiterate real quick
for those that want to take a look.
Ticker is Z-E-F-I or Z-F-I-F because it is a small cap.
You know, it'll appear some places, other places it won't. You can just
go basically to Google and just type that in, that Zephyroth Methane Corp, and pull it up.
They have it on Seeking Alpha if you're looking for it there. ZEFIF is what it's under on Seeking
Alpha. You can just take a look through it. You can see in the past month, they're up 15%.
Hard to find a lot of companies that are up 15% in the past month with the current environment, the stock market, for those that have been looking. So that's very intriguing
to me to continue to see where it can go. But yeah, Z-E-F-I-R-O Methane Corp, for those that
want to look it up and do their research deeper into the picture here with everything that's going on. I did have a question, obviously, right now that's OTC.
Do you have plans, goals for an uplisting, other things along those lines?
Well, I mean, we're always looking at capital plans, and we certainly would look at an uplisting.
The reality is we're growing the business. We're hitting numbers that we've set out to hit.
And we want to move to a broader out of the small cap market, you know, at the right time,
hopefully soon.
And so absolutely.
Love that.
Yeah, that makes sense to me.
And then for people that are going to do their research
are there any like pieces that have been written up or interviews that you've done or things on
those lines that you'd say like hey like make sure you go and check that out like that's going
to give you conviction well i think if you would listen uh there i was on in february i was i was
featured in um an episode of wall street week Week, which is Bloomberg's weekly news magazine on new trends and investing.
And two of the four segments in that were about the methane reduction business.
And a lot of the people you saw interviewed, we frankly know and work with.
But, you know, I got a chance to sort of talk a little a little bit about the market opportunity at the Bloomberg
level, which I think was certainly very exciting, and it shows you how seriously people are
taking this in the US and globally.
I think there have been definitely some good pieces out there.
We're expecting some pieces that are going to be released by
some well-known press in the coming days and weeks. So I would say keep your eye on our
LinkedIn and in our announcements because we are getting a lot more looks.
Perfect. Love it. Any final thoughts or comments you want to leave us with?
I think it's, look, I would just say, you know, you're talking to someone who had a career in
academia and then a career in markets and banking. And, you know, truly, I think we've
happened into a generational opportunity. And I'm excited about what the future will bring for our teams, for the economies we
impact, and also for our investors.
Perfect.
Awesome.
Well, it's been a pleasure having you on, Talal.
Thank you to George from AgoraCom for helping to set this up.
I appreciate everybody in the audience and, of course, the panel, Lady Trader, Tropic, Ani, Zed, Jordan being up your coasting,
and Behind the Wolf Accounts.
Just a great panel.
Good questions all around.
I feel like this was really did it justice for, you know, giving people an understanding
of this industry and what's possible.
George, any final comment from you?
Amazing space.
Talal, great answers, but even more importantly to the
to the whole speaker crew fantastic questions i'm glad you guys enjoyed it because
i really like the enthusiasm in the questions uh you guys were all asking uh that that made
me feel great because zafiro's doing something i'm gonna end it with this i love the fact that
you get both a potential growth company and a company that's really helping the planet without virtue signaling.
They just go about doing a great job.
And if they do it well, we all get a double benefit out of it.
So that's my final thought.
Perfect.
Thank you so much to both of you.
Emp, I'll turn it back over to you.
Yeah, fantastic conversation.
Big shout out to Talal for coming on,
George as well.
And of course the panel,
like you were saying there, Gav,
I learned a lot personally
and I think the audience really did as well.
Great questions as always from this panel.
Always great having all of you on Spaces.
Great couple hours here.
We had the stock picking show
and then ran straight into this.
Great content here. We will the stock picking show and then ran straight into this great content
here. We will be back bright and early, 8 a.m. in the morning for the future show here on Wolf
Financial. Thanks to everyone that did tune in this evening. And when I say on Wolf Financial,
that will actually be hosted by our new Wolf Trading account. Make sure you've checked that
out and given them a follow. We will be opening up bright and early over there, live trading off
the back of that. Full day of spaces tomorrow as well. A lot of great content coming your way. We'll see you on
those spaces tomorrow. Hope everyone has a great rest of their Monday evening. Take care, everyone,
and we will see you around the corner on the next space. Thank you.
