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Is the 4-year cycle over?
Recorded: Sept. 3, 2025 Duration: 1:50:43Space Recording
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. Music Thank you. Music Thank you. Music Thank you. Thank you. I'm going to go to the next video. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. What's going on, Doc?
How are you? What's going on, Doc?
How are you?
Super good, Noah. How are you?
I'm good. It's been a while since we shared the stage here.
It's been a minute, and sorry I've been a stranger, but as we catch up, you'll understand why.
Four years cycle ending, huh? I'm very curious to see what all that means.
Yeah, I'm also curious, too.
It'll be a shorter space,
but I'm also curious because in the past, we've seen four-year cycles,
and I think
a lot of people are
expecting history
to repeat, but
I wonder, you know, if everyone's expecting the same thing, surely they'll all be able to sell in time towards the top before the next great bear market hits us.
Yeah.
I mean, are you talking about crypto generally?
Bitcoin?
I mean, all of the stuff that's where you're at. Bitcoin, mainly Bitcoin, I think mainly Bitcoin, ETH and other infrastructure projects.
I think this time around it's much easier if you want to just go with the high cap stuff
to find strong plays, Chainlink, Athena, Ondo, just to name a few.
But even the stock market, I'm curious to see if it continues to rally.
Gold hit all-time highs.
And I think a lot of people are, I know at least in crypto, a lot of people are expecting to see the cycle and Q4 I just not you know with the first pro crypto administration I always said that this time it's different
cheerleaders would come out of the woodwork and and that they would come
out of the woodwork with a stronger narrative. However, this seems like a macro shift.
And so first pro crypto administration, global liquidity is increasing.
And I just I wonder if we if we get if we get the 25, we'll definitely get 25 bips.
But if we get 50 or 75, a 25 or a 50 to 75 basis point rate cut, then it's going to be money printer goes burr.
And, you know, I wonder if this time it is different.
Yeah.
You know, I've always thought from the moment that I got into the world, you know, four or five years ago,
I got into the world four or five years ago that treating the investment opportunity and tracking it and doing forward predicting akin to what you would use in the stock market or other equities or other investments was sort of mistaken. I think that we have had sort of a sea change in the last two years with the
adoption, the broader adoption, particularly of Bitcoin. And now with the president, we
have a crypto president. It seems there's such a seismic shift in the industry, somewhat akin to me in the stock market back in the 20s and 30s
when we went off the gold standard and, you know, we had a couple of world wars.
There's so many other factors that can influence the value of an investment,
both short-term and long-term, that using the sort of analytical tools that most people have come to use in
the past with conventional equities, I never thought that was a strong tool to use in this
business.
I think doing political analysis was always very important, which is sort of where political and legal analysis was always very important,
and assessing not only Bitcoin opportunities and future growth, but also for the alts and of course the memes.
I wouldn't be investing based on a four-year cycle because I think we just had some major disruptions along the way that we haven't seen the cake built up yet.
So that's part of my take of agency.
Yeah.
Yeah, no, I think I'm in a similar mindset.
I think I'm in a similar mindset.
And I told myself I wasn't going to fall for the this time it's different narrative.
But I also need to think about it and approach it less emotionally.
And I think that if I'm looking at things objectively, I agree with you.
I think we're about to...
And so, Doc, a broader question, right?
How do you feel about what Trump has done so far?
I don't think we might have lost Doc there.
But yeah, look.
I'm sorry.
I just forgot to hit the speaker button.
There we go.
Can you hear me now?
I'm in the car.
Yes, yes, sir.
Loud and clear.
Yeah.
Okay.
I'm about a half hour from my house and I may lose connections along the way.
I'll try and come back if I do.
But in terms of Trump as a crypto president, you know, when I hear internationally and when I speak to people that I know live in different parts of the world, particularly the Middle East and Europe, some see Trump as having enriched himself through various political-focused deals with all the in the crypto world in general that trump and
donald trump jr who i think is pushing something new uh in terms of a crypto investment i i think
that part of this has been their their family taking advantage of the opportunity more than the president has presented the opportunity,
our clarity over a legal framework, making the investment safe from fraud or safer from fraud,
the sorts of legislative oversight that now is not going to be the province of the SEC,
but who is going to ensure that there's a forum for a person to invest in the market
who gets taken advantage of illegally?
And that's a concern, I think, particularly as it relates to people in my age group.
Of course, I'm not there.
I'm 66. My business partner is in his mid-70s.
And whenever I talk about crypto, he reaches into his pocket, throws out $2,000 in cash on the table
and says, this is what I carry around, this is what I trust. I don't trust any of them.
And of course, there are other alternative investments for everybody and anybody besides crypto.
The belief, I think, that's been proven out over time that it's a good investment,
but it's not knocking the roof off the top of candlesticks on a consistent basis.
It's held its value.
It's grown its value.
But the predictions of it going to 300, 500, 2,000 with broader adoption across the world,
broader adoption by government, broader adoption by mutual funds like BlackRock et al.,
by government, broader adoptions by mutual funds like BlackRock et al.
To me, the entry of these big, big players really is a way for them to control the market
as it sits, the unregulated, largely unregulated market, at least in this country, as it sits.
And I wonder, you know, how the growth opportunities in Bitcoin would be without the influence of big, big, big players,
like we're seeing governments and huge monopolistic mutual funds and investment funds.
I don't know that the average guy, and I consider most of the people that have been in your spaces and Mobi's spaces and my spaces are the average guy looking to hit a home run.
And although it's been a good, stable investment, it's not been a home run in my opinion.
Well, I guess it depends on when you got into Bitcoin, right?
Yeah, exactly right.
And also how much you invested, right? Because, I mean, you could have gone in with size even as early as three years ago when Bitcoin was sitting at 15 to 20K.
And, you know, you'd be up substantially.
You'd be up, I guess.
A lot of millionaires were created over the last three years and longer.
The question becomes, is past performance a predictor of future performance?
And I don't know that it is because it's the unsettled political, legal, and global environment we find ourselves in.
Is it in the interest of everyone who's invested to see it grow?
I don't know if that's the strategy for others.
Yeah, it's a good question, Doc, and I want to ask Seth what he thinks.
But as the dollar continues to lose value, I see people wanting to put their money in things like gold. And the reason
I think Bitcoin is going to be more popular than gold going forward is because you have the rise,
rise of Gen Zs into adulthood and Gen Alphas into adulthood. And the world is becoming more multipolar. And I don't, you know, I haven't met many Gen Z's
and Gen Alpha's that are enticed by the idea
of holding a bunch of gold and having to move around with it.
So I think that Bitcoin is just,
it's not only found product market fit today,
I think it's gonna continue to absorb more
of the
global liquidity,
the global
monetary market share, if that makes sense.
Yeah, no, it does.
And I don't know if you saw it.
I don't know.
But I saw that
we've been talking about going back on the gold standard
about Trump.
I think not always very early on.
They were going to inspect rumors that gold, massive shipments of gold, were arriving in America.
And the most recent announcement I saw was that Trump was thinking about producing a gold-backed security of some sort.
I forget the post and who said it.
It might have been Don Jr.
But, yeah, I'm curious if the same people who are promoting crypto
aren't also promoting gold as a future reliable government-backed asset.
No, I think probably both.
I mean, I bought a little bit of gold when I was in Dubai just because, but I think I'm
cozier in Bitcoin.
Seth, but I agree with you, Doc.
I certainly agree with you.
I think the powers that be are likely pushing both.
Seth is laughing at both of us.
Seth is always laughing. He's laughing at everyone.
Oh my gosh. Autism is a party of one at all times, Doc.
If you're ever invited, just count yourself lucky, right?
I think that's the issue with weaponized autism.
And, you know, it's always out of love.
But no, this is a very interesting question.
And and, dude, you've got as many answers as you have people on the on the panel, at least in my opinion, you should.
We've had so many crazy mixed signals. Right. Getting up to this point.
And if anybody if any two people had the exact same perspective, I would just be shocked or be worried.
Right. Thinking that maybe that person is not a critical thinker. But yeah, I mean, we've got some assets that it seems like the flight to safety, like the previous litmus tests are failing. The previous purity tests are, they're just, we're discovering that purity just doesn't exist in the way that we thought before.
that we thought before. So like, even with Bitcoin, and you've heard me say it, I think at other
times, I think it was one of the only people that was warning everybody that privacy would have to
be erased as a base level requirement for the ETF to finally be passed. And if you've been following
my thoughts on the matter for years now, well, back on Clubhouse, did a daily show alongside Dr.
Jack Cruz, who, if you're familiar, he's a noted Bitcoin maximalist. He will entertain
conversations about other assets. But in some of those rooms around pure Bitcoin maxis,
right, wall-to-wall Bitcoin maxis, everybody kind of would smile and nod and acknowledge the rejection of an ETF in the past
did not necessarily generate negative price action or price discovery in Bitcoin.
So it follows logically that the acceptance of an ETF or the passage of an ETF would not necessarily
increase its price, would not necessarily put it into price
discovery. And I think that that has largely held true that the passage of an ETF and everyone says,
oh, just hold on. Look, you know, look at how long it took for the gold ETF to put to put gold into
price discovery. I just don't think you can compare them so easily. And right now with the flight to safety, yeah, no, I don't think anyone should
blame you for being bimetal curious, right? Sort of a little bit of gold, a little bit of silver,
go into the portfolio next to the digital assets, something that you can physically put your hands
on. With the four-year cycle potentially nearing the top of an s-curve a lot of us have been
predicting this for years and i mean for the last four years saying hey we we have what looks to be
the perfect storm to achieve the the upper arc of an s-curve on on bitcoin's price action now does
that mean it will not eventually reach a million dollars per coin no does that mean it will not eventually reach a million dollars per coin? No. Does that mean it will not eventually reach, who knows, maybe $10 million per coin and fully stretch its legs into taking those great strides that we know Bitcoin should be able to do?
Looking at its core architecture, basically consuming all of the value of every asset ever imagined, right? Your full money supply,
all of your property, everything being tokenized and somehow being committed against the Bitcoin
price, being levied against the Bitcoin price, even if it isn't actually minted on chain on the
layer one Bitcoin network. Maybe that's still in the cards, but certainly
the rate to get there has been extended. Now, I mean, look at just the core technical
primitives of Bitcoin itself. We're not supposed to see the end of the block emission or the block
subsidy or the mining subsidy for every block until 2140, the year 2140.
If that's true, then that means that we have so much more time to be able to see what Bitcoin does
by way of bringing in the value from other asset classes than people realize.
And the four-year cycle, just to see the block subsidy cut in half every four years
is only one small metric of how we get there.
It doesn't necessarily automatically give price a parabolic run up.
There are so many other factors at play.
And now that we're finally seeing Bitcoin go against its stress test of post 2008, right?
Chancellor on brink of second bailout.
My guy, my brother in Christ, look at the financial situation. Look at the money printer. It has not stopped. That poor thing is about to explode. And they can't stop, right? If they stop printing, we're fucked. If they start printing too fast, we're fucked. And if they just continue to print, there's a significant portion of the population that's fucked. So like, yes, Bitcoin has to continue to go up, but it doesn't have to continue to go up at neat four year intervals so that your lazy quant can just say, look at the fractals. No, not that easy anymore. It's over.
Now, not that easy anymore. It's over.
Yeah, that's what I'm struggling with, Seth, right?
Because, again, I would get on these spaces about two years ago or even a year ago,
and I would say, careful, because every cycle you have the this time,
it's different cheerleaders coming out of the woodwork,
and they'll come out with a stronger narrative about why we're going to the super cycle or why the four-year cycle is going to break. And I'm finding myself
conflicted because one, I have PTSD, but two, at the same time, like at a macro level,
macro level, things seem different. And that S curve you mentioned is something that I think
things seem different. And that S-curve you mentioned is something that I think about often.
about often. Now, you know, I don't, I don't know if we're going to go straight up to 500k
or a million, like a lot of people are saying, but yeah, you know, I just, I wonder if it's
going to be that easy to just time this market going forward, if everyone is going to be able to
timeless market going forward if if you know everyone is going to be able to predict the four
or q4 crash and everyone's going to sell at the same time and everyone's going to walk out in the
sunset and retail is going to come by and be your exit liquidity again it just it yeah i again i'm
having a i'm having a hard time deciding where we're going to go after December of 2025.
Yeah, no, no.
Let me briefly, let me land a plane after just one more quick integration of a thought here based on what you're saying there.
For us to get that parabolic run up to 500K or a million,
most people aren't ready for the discussion of what would have to happen in the world
for us to get that parabolic run upup to get a 5x between a five
to seven and a half x uh or 10x from where we are right now they are not prepared to deal with the
amount of real world blood and carnage and i don't mean that metaphorically i mean the actual pain
and suffering um across so many different categories and i i also don't mean you know
literally that that everyone's going to be killing each other in the street purge style, but I'm not saying it's off the table.
It would look so weird. The world we would live in would look so weird to see Bitcoin run up 10X
right now with a sustainable price floor after that, other than a dump and a massive at least 50% correction to go back down.
Like in order to like the things that would the conditions that would have to be met
would result in the vast majority of the people who you know and love being severely damaged
financially in order for Bitcoin to be the safe haven within the financial landscape.
And most people aren't prepared to have that conversation.
They're not prepared to think about what it would feel like
to have million dollar Bitcoin,
but literally see bread lines in North America.
Because that's what you would see.
And that would be the least offensive thing you'd see.
Yeah, Michael, would that be the least offensive thing what are your
thoughts i think that if you're expecting bitcoin to go up to 500k people don't have the realization
that like bitcoin's gonna be shorted at 200 bitcoin's gonna be shorted at 250 300 325 350 400 and stuff
500 dude i will 100x short that right off the bat not gonna lie anyone want to push it past
go ahead the thing is is that the higher you push bitcoin like bitcoin for sure is going to have its Darth Darth Maul candle the Darth Maul
candle is basically longs and shorts all liquidated and the markets reset so yeah we may push up to
500 but then we're going to push right back down to like 70k like how Seth was saying it there has
to be some kind of like profit taking portions, especially with everyone that's going late into the game. Like if you look at if Bitcoin's hitting all time high, everyone that has ever
purchased Bitcoin is in profit. So imagine there has to be sell pressure, right? Whenever we're
hitting tops, especially for Bitcoin, the first top that we hit 112K or so was the previous top
or so. That one was met with severe resistance
that we took months and months to kind of recover too same thing right when we uh we hit 120 or
something right like every single time that we're hitting a top you have to clear out all the ones
that have let's say for example in 2020 right when people were at 65K, the people that purchased that at that moment, they waited multiple years in order to sell out.
And when it did, it took us a while to kind of break that trend.
Now, if you're pushing it higher than this current path, that means that you're saying, hey, everyone that has ever purchased Bitcoin, we are going to buy you out because we're going to push it higher.
But for a lot of the firms
that's not a profitable trade they'd rather have it to where if I have Bitcoin I can leverage it
to push it a little bit lower and try to shake out as many people as I can before I let to you
know let it push really really high so if you were saying like Bitcoin right now if we go to like 200
I think at 180 we're gonna hit a hit a resistance, 175, 150, right?
Like each psychological level of a milestone number, we're going to hit resistance at.
But I think at 200, we are for sure going to have a really, really hard time breaking past that.
And I think this cycle's highest actually like around like 180.
I mean, yeah, I mean, I think you made some highest is actually around 180.
Yeah, I think you made some really great points, Michael.
And I want to loop it over to the title of the space because I think we can all agree if Bitcoin goes on a face-melting rally.
And some would argue the last two years have been face melting. But if Bitcoin was to shock everyone,
there's bound to be a correction because everyone's in profit.
And the likelihood that everyone just holds and that there's enough buy pressure to absorb all the cells,
I think it could be low.
I don't know.
I don't have a crystal ball.
In terms of a four-year cycle?
Yeah.
I think that there's... And by the way, by the way, please, guys, retweet this space.
Please follow the speakers.
I don't ask this often.
Apparently, I'm supposed to be doing that.
And yeah, please follow the Mobi account.
Michael, please.
So in terms of the four-year cycle, I think it's too easy this time
in terms of competing the exact same two peaks and then we're out and we're in a bear for quite some time.
I think that Suzu was probably correct about a super cycle.
I mean, I'm going to get a lot of flack for this shit.
I think Suzu was correct in terms of a super cycle lasting up to eight years.
super cycle lasting up to eight years the the reason why i say that is because i i feel like
right now it is going to be more prolonged in terms of the peaks so you see two peaks and then
bear for three years right but now we're having institutions kind of come into the picture
bitcoin is moving a lot more slow uh you're looking at the, if you actually drag the exact same charts for Bitcoin,
let's say like line by line,
from last having to the end of it having,
and then you take that exact chart,
copy and paste on TeamViewer and you place it over.
Bitcoin is doing the exact opposite
of what it's supposed to do.
Like if, yeah, this, I actually, I actually placed this onto TeamViewer because I was looking at, I mean.
Are you comparing this price action from the previous cycle?
It looks almost identical.
No, no, completely opposite.
Tell me.
So at moments where it's supposed to peak, it dumps.
where it's supposed to peak, it dumps.
And then at moments where it's supposed to dump, it peaks.
So let's say, for example, within this exact date, 9-3,
last year, it could show that it's going in an increase.
But this year, it can kind of show it's going down.
There are some ebbs and flows to it, but it's like a sideways
eight in terms of the price is a little bit different
so that's why i think it's going to be more dragged out uh i think suzu was correct but
just one cycle too early in terms of the two peaks that's just too easy to trade i think there's
probably gonna be a third peak this time that's gonna be you know the final blow off top and that
would actually kill all the bears.
It would kill a lot of bears because we haven't seen a third blow off top.
We've only seen two peaks every single cycle.
There's a first peak,
which I think that we're currently in the,
we just finished the first peak.
And I think we're going into the second peak,
which is the blow off top.
But if there is a third blow off top,
maybe let's say February timeframe by the latest, it is going to surprise everybody.
But then also on top of that as well, it's like inverse can also happen.
The bear market can kind of dip, once again, three peaks on the bear market.
Maybe now there's four.
And I feel like it's going to be prolonged a little bit further.
And institutions are going to want to have a little bit more in terms of accumulation so our four-year cycle could be dragged out a little bit further maybe five
maybe six years but we also haven't seen uh we haven't seen it go into a multi-site over a four
year period we haven't seen it go uh two years of. We've seen it go one year bull, three years bear.
One year bull, three years bear.
One year bull, three year bear.
We haven't seen a two-year bull, but then it's also doubling everything else.
Six-year bear.
Yeah, you know what?
Oh, Jesus left.
Why did he leave?
I wanted to get his thoughts. But I wonder myself, you know, if this is going to be an extended cycle.
And then if we do eventually get a blow off top, will a bear market look the way the 2022, 2023, and the 2018,2019 bear markets looked, because there are these macro shifts
and not just the kind of new administration,
but also the way the world is doing crypto and Bitcoin,
I wonder if we would, you know,
I just wonder if the future bear markets
will maybe not be as exciting as the bull,
but also not, they'll be one with more opportunity.
I consider sideways market also a bear market.
So like, let's say we hit 300 and then we range at 250 for like six months.
And then we range down to 230 and then 200.
Like that's still considered part of the overall escalating, de-escalating bear.
And then it can push back up to 275.
But I feel like the third blow off top is going to take quite some time for them to recover from.
And, you know, it could be a longer period.
But whatever that last trend is, if there is a third blow off top, that number is going to trap a lot of people for quite some time.
Yeah, I agree with that.
Jesus, what's going on, brother?
I sit atop a mountain, a mountain filled with degenerates, looking at the charts, looking at people rugging their own coins. I see crime everywhere, everywhere I go
as someone that talks to the normies, talks to the retail minds abroad. I realize that the four
year super cycle is just a giant scam, but a scam that we've all bought into. So now this four year
super cycle is not over. And I'm going to tell you why a vast majority of ETF volume retail,
who are the people that are getting suckered into buying every single cycle? The people that hold
for way too long, it's retail and retail is sick and tired or being milked and rinsed. And yet they
keep going every single day because they have no choice. Just like mine, your business saying,
we're all a little bit screwed in the head and
we have to do desperate things during desperate times. And if the bread lines come, I mean,
I'm hoping I'll hold Bitcoin or something, but I probably won't have the money to hold Bitcoin.
So what's the average person thinking? Well, they're thinking I'm not going to get caught
this time. And that's exactly what's been happening on Solana. You look at Solana and it is just, just, I don't even know what to say. It's, it's beyond crime at this point. It's just like
pump and dumping launch pad wars. The goal of a launch pad is just to go ahead and get people
to launch coins and rug them. That's literally the only reason people do these launch pads
because they know that retail money is leaving. It's fleeting. The only way we go higher is if
institutions to start printing
money or like the government keeps printing money, which they're doing. So we're going to go higher.
And I do think people are so brainwashed to the point where, yeah, we're getting a four-year
super cycle top. That's going to be the local top. But at the same time, like one could argue
that a lot of people made money in 2022. They didn't time this 2021 Bitcoin top in
like November. No one cared about that. Most retail was just trading on ETH and doing, you know,
dumb Ponzi stuff for the longest time. So yeah, the four-year super cycle absolutely is going to
be a thing. And people are going to keep parking their money to Bitcoin and all these alts. And
DGENs are still going to be DG be dgens but none of it really matters at the end
of the day because people are just going to get more and more aggressive each cycle and institutions
are just going to buy up all our bags and we're all just going to be in poverty line again we're
all screwed okay so from that jesus i i can't tell if you're bullish or bearish
i'm a little confused.
No, I'm very bullish on institutions buying all of our bags and all of us being sidelined. That's what I'm bullish on.
Because we've been burned too much.
We've been burned way too much.
tangible measurements and objective
facts before I can make that
you think institutions are just going to let retail
use them as exit liquidity? I'm playing devil's advocate by the way
I certainly want us to go into a super cycle
I feel like we were owed a super cycle. We didn't get one last
bull market in 2021. Everything kind of crumbled in mid-2022. So how do you see this playing out,
Isis? No, yeah. I already think the retail top is in. I don't think interest. I mean, what retail top, right?
If you go and so if you go and go to Google and search for crypto related terms, the numbers are nowhere near what they were.
I guess they're kind of starting to close the gap between what they are now and what they were in 2021.
So it's never going gonna get that high anymore
it's impossible it's just people have been burned too much at this point I
mean we know retail came this cycle through meme coins and they've all left
already on chain trading on Solana is hit new lows day in and day out it's
completely cucked they've all been rinsed and so what happened last cycle
people just spammed coins they got a bunch of vcs to buy in
people printed money and they sent charts higher that's what happened so if you wanted tangible
evidence you look at last bull cycle you look at current bull cycle all the money being raised
that's not happened to retail like all of our bags are just going to be owned by institutions
that's all that's going to happen here they're going to keep raising money these etfs are going
to keep farming fees off retail and then retail is going to dump before november because they think that the magical top
happens at the same time and it's it's cooked it's cooked for retail and then they all just get used
as exit liquidity when things go higher and the hype cycle continues so so they get used as exit
liquidity when they fomo back in is what you're saying. Yeah, they think they got it, but they don't got it.
Is what I'm saying.
If they just held, they'd be fine.
But they won't.
I think what Jesus is trying to say here
is that you want to buy good assets
and you want to hold them over a long period of time.
And that way you're not one of the people
that's selling too early and then buying back in too late.
Look, I wonder if retail is going to buy your favorite altcoin bags though, right?
I know you're a big gaming, crypto gaming guy, but I wonder if retail is going to come and buy
your crypto gaming tokens. It does seem like a more Bitcoin, Ethereum, Solana,
Chainlink, Ondo, Athena, more tangible infrastructure-oriented bull market.
Also, I see a lot of people determining whether to buy certain altcoins based on protocol revenue.
You have Hyperliquid, for example, or even PumpFund, right?
I bought that pump token dip aggressively
because it's just whether you
like what they're doing or not, they're one of
the biggest protocols
and one of the fastest growing protocols.
I know things are stagnating
in crypto history. So
I want to hear anyone, you know, your thoughts
or anyone else's thoughts on
YW. You've had your head up for a while.
Can everyone hear me yes sir yeah oh okay uh thank you for inviting me to speaking here
yeah uh first thing i want to excuse for my english because it's not my native english
native language so maybe i speak it's a little bit weird so you sound great to me
okay so i do agree with um michael's point just now michael has given a very great point like
now the market uh in crypto the participant is totally different than other cycle we have seen
is totally different than other cycles we have seen.
Like in the past, maybe retail will have a big impact on the price too.
But right now, as we see the flow from the ETF and the government
and even institutions and many companies,
now it's totally an institution game, right?
Like we see more and more companies buying Bitcoin as their reserve.
Like it's totally normal thing now.
Where in the past, we see micro-sellers buying Bitcoin and everyone is screaming like,
oh my God, he is so crazy.
He keep buying Bitcoin, right?
Yeah.
So in the past, so the participant is totally different it's like
the main impact is come from the miner and the retail and and miner mainly because they hold
much more supply of the Bitcoin than the retail can ever have. And I would say that in the crypto space,
everything is changing very fast.
And I don't think we will have the exact four year cycle again
because crypto technology is changing really, really fast.
And I could tell you an example,
it's like, can you imagine like
if we can transfer Bitcoin in like 10 seconds
with only 10 Satoshi as fee?
Can you imagine that?
But right now we have already new technology
developed by Hong Kong team
can allow us to have that speed of transaction and also low fee.
I think I'm being a little bit fixed scheme to talk about other projects here, but I think that
this is a technology that every crypto people should be excited for, right?
In the past, we have Ethereum started
because we think we cannot scale Bitcoin anymore.
But now we have the way,
we have the technology to scale Bitcoin.
And anyone interested can check out my profile.
Okay, thank you.
I'm not bothering other people time
too much thank you so much no that was that was brilliantly put yw you actually made a couple
hands go up including michael's but i wholeheartedly agree with most of what you said i think you
nailed it i think that the the macro has shifted i think the information that we have has shifted. I think the information that we have has shifted. And I also think that the way
big players, the big guys are starting to view mainly Bitcoin and even larger assets
has completely shifted. So it does seem like we've entered a new paradigm. Michael?
I think that similar to how Ethereum kind of like grew its ecosystem,
there's going to be multiple dApps applications around Bitcoin.
But the core consensus layer, I think everyone's betting on it not changing.
Right.
So like making Bitcoin 10 seconds, they would rather use a secondary service or a chain or whichever versus having the majority of like all of their transactions being 10 seconds.
Because they want it to continue on.
This is what they're betting on.
They're betting on it staying the same.
Because imagine this, if a Bitcoin core developer was saying, hey, look, we are now going to speed up the block sizes to one second finality.
And it's going to be easier for everybody.
But then we're looking at Bitcoin Cash.
We're looking at Bitcoin SV.
We're looking at all the other forks that weren't part of that equation.
they're going to lobby around it and make sure that it doesn't change.
They're going to lobby around it and make sure that it doesn't change.
But this doesn't mean that there's not opportunity for companies to still scale within this.
As long as there's a need, there's potential demands for it.
But I think for Bitcoin in specific, whenever you're transacting in Bitcoin, I'm not going to lie,
you wait for two confirmations,'s like 30 minutes depending like dude i've been
like did this wallet get the money it's on the blockchain i'm scanning i'm scanning the mempools
it says pending okay cool confirmed all right confirmed and after a while it's like okay cool
now i have to wait for the exchanges to confirm how uh moby was saying earlier about like hype and
all the other stuff i think that
for them they do have a competitive advantage because if you remember last cycle or well two
cycles ago um binance came out of the blue and you know for them they started out really really
uh low valued compared to everything else but their model worked i think hype is also another great
alternative but in terms of everyone looking at you know bitcoin ethereum solana and kind of like
the majors like top 10 and stuff they're not going to dabble into buying freaking you know
like buying the gaming tokens buying all the other stuff
because whenever people are actually in profit that's when you have profits to spend so like
you look at like the the defi ecosystem and how the defi wave uh defy summer kicked off it's
because people were making 4 000 apy it's like they don't even they don't even know what the
hell to do with that money what happened next They took that money and placed it into art, fashion, gaming,
metaverses.
That's why Sandbox went overvalued.
That's why everyone was buying $200,000 CryptoPunks.
And then it pushed the value from culture up because the funds were there.
Right now, it feels like we're still in that early stage of a bull run, even though we're supposed to kick it off within the next two months.
But it's not.
The markets have shaken so many people out that it feels like the liquidity that's supposed to be placed into, once again, next trends in terms of culture, art, fashion, and stuff like that are going to be delayed.
next trends in terms of culture, art, fashion, and stuff like that,
are going to be delayed.
Because of the fact that if you're shaking out the market participants
and you're coming in as an institution,
I don't want to fucking buy the top.
You're telling me, hey, Michael Saylor is buying,
so we're going to be okay.
You're his exit liquidity.
Yeah, he's going to buy the top.
Dude, he bought all the way down since the bottom.
For him, he has first mover's advantage.
First mover's advantage is always going to have the best bet.
So for everyone that's coming in afterwards, there has to be some type of domino in the end in terms of like, hey, these Bitcoin treasury companies later on, if they enter in too late and don't have their strategies super early they're going to be the exit liquidity right so think of it this way it's a casino it's always a casino it's always been a casino there's going to be some losers there's going to be some winners
and i think michael saylor in the beginning set himself up to where he is going to ride the wave
up but it's like the house the house keeps on
stacking doubling in into it but whenever he leaves the poker table everyone else is just
fighting amongst themselves afterwards yeah i think a lot of these bitcoin treasury companies
are going to end up getting wrecked because like you said they don't have their their strategies
adequately outlined jesus what are your thoughts?
Yeah, I mean, I don't really agree with the whole Bitcoin L2 thing.
I think we tried it with ordinals.
Tom Lee put it best.
He said that Ethereum's having their 1971 moment,
whereas Bitcoin is gold and Ethereum's going to be the actual tech layer
so if we're bullish on tech stocks which the entire stock market is pegged on that's the
reason the US dollar is worth anything anymore then tech cryptos are gonna be the big thing so
I would kind of argue if you're him is going to have that big ass run that people are expecting
it to have because these institutions are actively raising money to buy ethereum and
then also at the same time pokemon cards are going crazy so yeah like i still think there's enough
liquidity to have a big old run in this stuff i mean michael you should know better he was the
one that got me into pokemon in the first place and everything's just overheating. My Pokemon cards are honing up way better than the market. Dude, they're going crazy.
Dude, I
where did this
out of nowhere
everyone on crypto Twitter started
talking about Pokemon cards. I thought Courtyard was
already doing this where they take
the physical cards and they custody
them and then they mint one on chain.
Because I have a Pokemon the physical cards and they custody them and then they mint one on chain because i have i have i have
a a pokemon collection that i'm very proud of i started in 97 and i told my parents a couple
weeks ago i said see see you guys you guys i have to fight with you but some of these are worth a
pretty penny now i i curious to know what the heck is happening with this new one.
It's called Cards on Solana.
The site's kind of clunky, and I don't really understand why this is out of nowhere becoming...
Why this is getting hyped up out of nowhere.
This wasn't happening two years ago in Courtyard.
But this was happening.
Courtyard was doing this two years ago
i don't know anyway didn't they have some kind of like pre-sale or raise and they launched they
had x's and everybody on salon is so down bad they're desperately trying to cling on to anything
is that kind of the narrative i don't know man it's up 10x in a day and i mean good for them
they're doing something right I wasn't crazy about the
website when I was playing around with it and doing some research earlier today, but that's
something that you can fix up later. Mai, what do you think? Yeah. So, holy crap. Yeah. So,
just as far as the whole like that, yeah, the L2 on Bitcoin, I love that Jesus brought that up.
And I love that we had somebody else like, bless his heart. Is he already gone? He already? No, YW is here. Okay, so we can do follow up questions.
The thought of building an L2 on Bitcoin is interesting. And I mean, look, take it or leave
it. My opinion is informed from spending day in and day out for like six months straight
in clubhouse rooms with Bitcoin maximalists. And it was split, some of whom were decidedly for Lightning
Network, and some of whom who were like me, largely dismissive and saying, yeah, I don't see it going
anywhere. I mean, hey, four years later, some of us are on the right side of that narrative,
and I don't think it's the guys who were pimping out Lightning Network, the total volume of L2 transacted or Lightning transacted
Bitcoin to this day is still a small, tiny fraction of just WBTC. And WBTC is not even
the best implementation of what tokenized Bitcoin on Ethereum could be. And that's also not even
taking into account the really low fee WBTC and other tokenized
versions of Bitcoin and wrapped versions of Bitcoin that are on alternative side chains
and L2s of Ethereum. Low fee chains like base and side chain solutions like Polygon, which
still have a significant amount of WBTC supply on them. And add to that the fact that if you've been in this game for a while and you participated
in DeFi Summer 1, which I know Michael did, and I think Jesus did too, then you were LP-ing
some of these assets back then and you figured out like, oh shit, I can make money in my
sleep without speculating.
I can be in two assets that I actually have conviction in.
One of them can even be a stable coin if I don't want to take any risk. And I can earn fees just from providing liquidity.
So you talk about holding and having the full benefit of being a long-term hodler of certain
assets. You didn't even have to choose. You could choose to be aligned with at least the price
action of Bitcoin and have it be on a network like Ethereum, earn fees from other people
saying, hey, I'm interested in at least the price action of Ethereum, take a tokenized representation
of Bitcoin, sorry, even just the price action of Bitcoin, but on Ethereum, and then just take a
tokenized version of it that is not the main asset, and then still get all those benefits of price discovery while still getting
all the yield just from LP fees. It's ridiculous the number of instruments that we have that
function better than Bitcoin or an L2 to be able to do interesting tokenization science projects
that kind of touch on Bitcoin. Now, is it Bitcoin? No. Does it have the same level of
uncensurability as Bitcoin? Probably not. But is there still enough of a whatever Nakamoto
coefficient that you have to worry about outright confiscation? Yeah, there is. You're pretty damn
safe holding private keys to almost any crypto network right now.
And there's rare exceptions to that in terms of having a third party just be able to remotely
somehow detect your private key pairs and remove your crypto holdings from you.
Add to that, this is just the intelligent use of a hardware wallet.
use of a hardware wallet and you're pretty well safe from like 95 to 99% of all attack vectors.
Like there's so many things that I wanted Bitcoin to be like the only solution to,
but it's just not. And especially when it comes to L2s and low fees, Bitcoin is definitely not it.
Lightning has done nothing but be a continued
disappointment, a continued failure to launch. And then also a continued disappointment in those
very poor three implementations that did launch that nobody ever used. Nobody ever used them
successfully. You look at like the only Lightning wallets that exist today that are in broad use are things like things.
Oh, gosh, what's it called? The strike wallet? 100% custodial. 100% custodial risk.
You own nothing. You own nothing. Trusting Jack Maulers. You own zero Bitcoin. Trusting Jack Maulers.
Look, he talks to your game and he's really convincing, really great scam artist.
You owe nothing when you trust him. And then the same is true of the first custodial lightning
wallet that launched in El Salvador. For as much as Nayib Bukele, I think, is probably a net good
actor, the wallet that they launched there was also just, it was so custodial that it's like,
dude, wow, this is like, it was all a giant, you know, giant scam to get people
affinity scam to get people to believe that they were interacting in Bitcoin, but you know, just
using a custodial wallet. So where I'm going with that is to say like the L2 experiments, we've been
there, we've done that. The L0s, we've been there, we've tested it. The Cosmos and Tenderman consensus
protocols have largely won when it comes to layer zeros.
Now, what's going to become of Cosmos? I'm glad Michael put his hand up. He can speak more intelligently to that than I can.
My point is that Polkadot ate shit and died, and it deserved to.
It was a plate of shit that the founders themselves served up and then tried to control their marketing so
tightly. Look, you got Michael doing the hundreds. You got Jesus laughing. Bro, we've all done the
proposals. We tried to help them. We tried to give feedback. They wanted to be a VC liquidity circle
jerk. They didn't want our help. They didn't want our money. They didn't want our audiences. They
didn't want our feedback. And so they died naked, afraid and fucking alone eating shit. Boo hoo. Rest in piss. Yeah, Cosmos won. I'm just going to say that out loud. Cardano? Hey, maybe they stand a shot. And I'm never going to speak poorly about the Cardano ecosystem. Here's why. Because they do have at least a community that's interested in giving
the feedback. Now, am I going to go and full port into Cardano? Hell no. No way. So yeah,
watch my actions. Don't just listen to what I'm saying here. Those who know, no. But I'm just
going to say like the concept of a layer zero, we've tested it. We know it works. The concept
of a layer two, we've tested it. We know it works. The concept of a layer two, we've tested
it, we know it works. Account systems, they map very well on top of UTXO systems. Even Cardano
had to admit defeat before they launched whatever their latest hydroponic, extra foiled,
extra foiled, talk to the astronauts, academics all love it, you know, written in a 50-year-old
language that only academics will ever use. I don't know what their latest thing is, right,
for scaling. My point is, they launched an EVM first. Most people missed that. Most people didn't
pay attention to that. The Cardano Foundation launched an EVm xrp and ripple labs launched an evm they all bent
the knee they all admitted defeat every single one whether they use those words or not we all know
that they cut themselves by admitting our doesn't work at scale and then trying to you know somehow
engineer something later on that they are going to pretend is all
singing and all dancing. But realistically, no, Ethereum won. Ethereum is the de facto layer two
to anything that can be tokenized. If you pretend to make a layer two for Dogecoin and you make it
an EDM, if you pretend to do that for Bitcoin and you use anything other than Ethereum as the EDM,
you're fooling yourself. It's an affinity scam where maybe you'll get a little bit of EC money,
but otherwise it's fake.
We all know better.
Those of us who've been around for more than two seconds, we all know better.
So anyway, that was a little rant.
Jesus, you got me going there, but I appreciate that you brought it up.
We're going to clip that.
We need to clip that.
We got to keep it real.
That's what we got to keep it.
We need to make a short because every time Seth speaks, it's a mic drop moment.
Man, I couldn't have said any of that better myself.
I will say with LPing, Seth, I stopped LPing because even though it would be two assets that I liked,
the impermanent loss I always found and maybe i'm
doing it wrong but the impermanent loss seemed to always eat away at any gains and it's became
it's counterproductive unless it's two stable coins in which case i love lp for two stable
coins it's the best michael we got let's hear from grace actually we haven't heard from grace
and then we'll swing over to michael because I know he's got a lot to say on that.
Oh, okay. Hi. Thank you. Thank you for allowing me to speak. Can you hear me?
Yes, ma'am.
Please be louder.
Yeah, this is a very interesting topic. So I would like to share my comments.
topic so i would like to uh share my comments uh uh so in the past i've been very uh positive about
a passionate about the btc and the crypto i think it's a revolution versus the uh versus the fan the
fia money so it's a it's a revolution in the uh the financial system i think this is a great revolution where
Oyin participated. And I also see
BRC20, we already know,
it's a good milestone because in the past,
say the miners,
they can only sell Bitcoin. There's no application,
no ego system.
So however, I think with the
BRC20 and
coming up, we have a lot of new
users, the new blood
of the users and
they start to use the
wallet, they start to buy the
tokens and I can see
they really set a milestone for
the BTC and also
set a milestone for the crypto history.
So right now, you know, there's a lot of applications going on, you know, Layer 2 or even SAT-220.
I hope, you know, they will do something great again, make BTC great again.
again, make BTC great again.
And we'll see
they really set a milestone
in the BTC history
and in the
Bitcoin history. That's what I'm
seeing. I'm happy
to help or participate
in some event
or team building event
like that. Thank you.
My un-mic button wasn't working.
Grace, I sincerely appreciate you coming up and sharing your thoughts.
Michael, what do you think about what Grace just spit?
I remember two years ago, I was at Token 2049,
and that's when the whole Ordnose craze was going on with, I think it was BR20s.
Not going to lie, I rushed back to the hotel and I started degenning.
I exited that ecosystem within 48 hours and made like 50k.
Like, I freaking love it.
I love it whenever there's new narratives coming up
because it's basically new liquidities coming in so that you can kind of exit.
I feel like for Bitcoin, Bitcoin's always been great.
Now, if you're adding in other elements, whereas like NFTs on Bitcoin and stuff like that, that's totally fine.
Because I feel like every narrative that's coming on is always going to be a new niche that we can always profit off of until it becomes something that's going to be set in stone that's going to create first a financial market.
I always feel like if it's a financial market, let's say like DeFi, that is the only way it is going to sustain the creative markets.
Because speculation can only go so far for certain assets, right?
Like, for example, art.
Majority of the people that purchase art in the world, let's say like $100 million painting and stuff, they have the first liquidity part before they go into the art sector of it to be able to diversify and stuff like that i feel like the markets on bitcoin uh right now is is needs to fully flesh the first particle right if if if you have solana doing more
dex volume than bitcoin's native layer in terms of uh secondary trades for like ERC20s or whichever,
secondary tokens like BRC20s and stuff like that,
you won't have a really fully profitable market until that exceeds the rest.
If you can exceed Ethereum's transfer value for ERC20s,
then we can actually go into, what was it,
extra gains from the users now if i'm pairing
ether and wrapped ether i feel like depending on the pool so if you're on uniswap right
uniswap let's say you're doing a 0.03 uh 0.03 pool right slowly over time you do receive a little
bit but in the beginning whenever you're lp', you start losing money. So Seth was saying about Cosmos versus Polkadot
earlier, dude, I loved whenever Osmosis came out because Osmosis was my bread and butter for so
long. Whenever all of the Tendermint chains started coming together, it's now opened up
all of these markets from all of these chains that had their own independent liquidity that could not connect to each other.
It's basically a DEX that was hovering across multiple chains.
So think of it right now.
Solanas, Ethereum's, Avalanche's, Polygon's, like any of the other ones, you're able to have value capture that you can kind of bring in.
Polkadot?
I'm not going to lie.
I did a parachain.
I actually participated in doing marketing for one of these parachain spots.
And I actually beat them.
I forgot. I think it was bifrost bifrost
was uh was my competitor and i think they spent like two million plus on marketing i don't know
what the fuck they spent it on i spent less than 30k and i actually won the parachain spot
in terms of marketing it is very vc focused versus cosmos more decentralization um
cosmos more decentralization um community first type of approach i feel like vcs can pump your
bags for so long on the parachain spots until a broken model kind of comes in and says hey look
we're about to beat all of your marketing with very very little spend and the vcs are really
great with placing money into what they believe is going to work, but they don't know how to market at all.
While the other side of it is like,
why did Cosmos get way more social mentions,
social traction versus Polkadot?
It's because the community knows how to market themselves.
The word of all the people that were placed into it as a collective.
No one tells you you have to talk about Osmosis.
No one tells you you have to talk about-
I think Seth
also nailed it. They refused any
help, right? I mean, not just
us, but I think they just
didn't market right. The front-end
UI is atrocious.
They didn't take any feedback from the
community telling them the front-end UI
is atrocious. I know
not just us, but...
I know a dozen folks like you as well, Michael,
that tried to help them, Seth, tried to help them, tried to work with them,
and they were too good.
They were too cool for school.
But continue.
Yeah, it's like you have 100 million.
Yeah, you guys are rich in terms of all the VC cabal that's placing it together
because the VC cabal was able to push and make money off of every single one of them.
And once you get into the parachain spots,
like they have tokens unlocked.
What happens with the tokens?
The tokens are all listed on two exchanges.
What happens after that?
Market maker stake over.
High frequency trading then exits you out of their positions.
So they're able to exit out of a lot of the portions.
While the other one-
Michael, real quick, apologies for the interruption.
Just really, really briefly.
I wanted to recognize that we have somebody on the stage who is a soul worker. So I wanted to throw a lateral request to Noah to see if we can get a word in a little bit sooner than later, no pressure, to a user named Cesar V.
to a user named Caesar V.
Nope, username Caesar V.
I don't know this person yet,
but they may have been attracted
to the name of this space
because of the four-year cycle
that four years from now
will be an astrological cycle
for Apophis.
Anyway, just wanted to say,
look, look, hey,
millionaires laugh,
billionaires use.
You want me to say the truth?
No, I do want you to.
I'm just throwing it out there.
If I have my crystal ball and my crystal ball is correct, anything is correct.
Dude, if I bet on two cockroaches fighting and then one of them is like Bitcoin is going up and the other one's Bitcoin is going down, my prophecy has been worked.
No, I'm just kidding.
It's true.
I got to share my digital eaching caster for you.aster for you you're gonna love that shit bring to the family but anyway
i i feel like sometimes we're always looking for an up or down sign uh we're looking for things
in markets to try to justify what we're thinking like sometimes i'll look at the charts and i'll
be like this is gonna go up and I'm looking at the one minute chart.
Like what the fuck am I doing?
Why don't I look at the four hour?
Why don't I look at the one week?
Right, it's like, it's gonna go up.
It's gonna go down.
It's gonna go up.
Yeah, well, I mean, you're right.
To be less weird about it though,
I'm more saying I think we have somebody on stage
that is less about the tech and more about the soul.
I won't interrupt you.
Is this, who,
who is this?
Now I'm kind of interested in terms of,
yeah,
I'm interested in this.
How,
how,
who are we talking about right now?
either,
either I'm going to take a screenshot because either my X app is
hallucinating and I'm seeing somebody who is not on the speaker
panel or,
or I'll forward it to,
you know,
I don't know,
man.
Well, sure. Well, we're trying to figure out who that is LG's had a stand up for a while
almost got a trillion views on take talks 65 million posts awesome man thanks
for being with us today guys remember please please please follow the movie
media please follow all the speakers and retweet the space LG the mic is yours sir yeah I was hearing y'all
speak about Bitcoin and all this and I understand like y'all have a good like well I like what y'all
think about it like that the cycle's over but I'm just here to share like y'all were talking about
communities and this that well we're the strongest community out there and we have the best narrative
too as you can see just just go ahead and press the post
and you'll see the whole narrative
and you'll realize like, well, how has no one realized?
LG, look, man.
This is what we were talking about earlier, by the way.
We were saying, I don't know if institutions
are coming to buy these bags, candidly,
but I appreciate you coming out
no no no i want to ask him some questions i want to do some market research sure sure sure lg
why are you bullish on hashtag cat hashtag cat is the only crypto on tiktok with a with a picture
on its hashtag and also we have more we have 10 times the views and posts on uh on top of bitcoin
like we have 10x theirs now are you placing hashtag cat in terms of any hashtag you know
like aggregating just the the general one or is it your specific one
well we're on we basically defeat all the hashtags in crypto right now because there is
no hashtag meta right now we're we're the start of it how are you able to track which one is going
to be let's say if i because i have a let's say if uh i have a cat and i post a video of it and
put hashtag cat how can you differentiate that one from what you guys are building
well soon we're gonna like recruit some tiktok
influencers a lot of them y'all probably seen before well i mean probably all of y'all have
seen them because that's like one of the biggest hashtags on tiktok and well we're gonna like try
to integrate our our uh well our coin our token with every single post.
Mostly all of the posts on TikTok.
Now, how are you able to integrate the token?
Now that's interesting. How are you able to integrate
the token into every single post?
Do you guys have a bot
or a secondary
program that's able to
scrape all that data?
And at real time, be able to reply and yeah hold on i'm gonna pass the mic to my co it's like my basically my partner your mom
all right no no guys i'm so sorry i did this is this is not a paid promo space mike uh michael i
appreciate that i mean if your mom's gonna talk that's
okay we accept that here's the reason why i asked that it's because if you think the trenches are
dead but he's like the trenches are dead this is one niche community that's part of the bitcoin and
and and all the other ones that we regularly don't see. The reason why, like I don't go on TikTok and kind of look at this stuff.
But the thing is like...
Because it's at a 30K market cap.
No, no, no.
I don't know.
It's at a 30K market cap because we barely CTO'd it.
The community barely took it over, buddy.
Hold on, hold on.
Do not buy the token.
I was just asking questions.
It's because this type of community is smaller niche,
but I actually... We don't usually engage with these, right?
So how Jesus was saying earlier, how a lot of these tokens are printed out from, let's say, Pump.Fun and all these other things.
Where does that value go?
Right?
Does it go back into Solana?
Does it go into Ethereum?
This value is actually lost in terms of all the liquidity pools that are placed.
Is it lost, Michael, or is part of it going back into buybacks of the pump token?
That's one of the reasons I actually bought the pump token is because I don't particularly
want to participate in the casino day to day, but I want to own a piece of the casino.
participate in the casino day-to-day, but I want to own a piece of the casino.
So here's the thing. Majority of those LP pools, right? Even if there's dust transactions that
are going to be placed on it, let's say it has one, you know, 0.2 soul left or whatever. All of
these quote, quote, burnt LP pools, right? That are irreplaceable and kind of like able to pull
out. These pools are still like this
is why a lot of people do ctos right because they find a pool with a crap ton of solana on there
they find that basically the initial people that created it left but there's like let's say there's
like 10 grand left on that thing instead of starting brand new and having zero in the lp pool
you can start and take over a token and have a 10k you know a
10k lp pool already for potential sell side pressure now majority of the people you look
at a token that's like two years out and no one's touched it and you look at the whale pressure and
there's like not a lot there's a lot of manipulation that happens with it but that 10k that's placed
on there that's idle liquidity that's basically like it's basically
burnt so slowly over time i feel like ethereum same thing for ethereum's as well like if you
look on like uniswap and all the other stuff some of those pools that have been created during those
cycles are lost revenue it's basically like how, even though we have 21 million, for sure, 21 million is not accessible. This is why I think a third pump in the cycle is going to happen. It's because a lot of people don't factor in the lost tokens that are there for each ecosystem, whether it's Ethereum, whether it's Solana, whether it's also Bitcoin.
whether it's Ethereum, whether it's Solana, whether it's also Bitcoin.
Now, if you're adding Bitcoin L2s, you're adding all of these other features,
all of these other chains and stuff like that to try to lock Bitcoin,
the majority of it is going to add to the loss factor of Bitcoin's overall circulating supply.
This is why I think a third top is going to happen.
why I think a third top
is going to happen.
Infinity.
Yeah, Michael.
I can...
I don't have a crystal
ball and that's why I want to hear from
the healer of the week here in a
second, but I do want to hear
from Infinity first and then you can circle
over to her and then I got to wrap things up
pretty soon.
Sure, and I appreciate the opportunity to speak here, honestly. And I've been listening in and
I do believe that, you know, every platform, every opportunity out there in the world,
it goes through its cycle of evolution. I mean, nothing stays the same, right? I mean,
when I started with, I mean, crypto and then meme coins and whatnot right
the way i used to look at a certain token and see how people are back working right
and that has changed over time like in the last six months to a year the whole paradigm has changed
with the number of tokens being launched every day nobody i, the top traders on Axiom right now, they have a, you know,
I don't know how many seconds of whole time they have, right?
And is that the kind of market that we're looking at really?
But I believe we are at a point,
and I totally agree with what, you know,
Michael was just alluding to is that, you know,
there is a top out there.
There is a cycle.
There is an evolution that is going to happen.
And that is going to happen through, I would say, innovativeness, right?
I mean, the same memes over and over again,
or the same concepts over and over again, just recycling through.
It's the same money, which is just changing hands.
We're not, I mean i i don't know what
was the last token that really onboarded norm is into crypto or maybe chill guy uh might be uh i'm
not sure but you know after that i i have not seen much norm is coming in and buying our bags right
and for that to happen we need to show them what it is, right? And honestly, I'm not here to, you know, just chill about a token, but really, really talk about it.
But I am currently working on something.
Do not go and buy this token.
I'm not asking you to buy this token because we just...
Don't worry, we won't.
Don't worry about it, yeah.
So, but, you know, what LG was alluding to, right?
Hashtag cat.
It's a concept.
And a concept is that, you know, TikTok, three weeks back, they put a picture on one of the top hashtags on their platform.
And that was hashtag cat.
And that basically, you know, gave birth to this coin, which went on to become 2.4 million market cap and whatnot, and then totally tanked, right?
Why?
Because people traded it.
They had nothing to hold on to, right?
And that's where I believe, you know, the next evolution needs to happen.
We are building something.
I'm not going to, you know, have a white paper out right now, basically, but we are building something that is going to,
I would say,
I would say plug into the creator economy, right? And that's
what we're working towards, but that evolution
needs to happen, honestly, I mean,
if that makes sense. And thanks for the opportunity.
Yeah, of course. I do wonder
if...
Well, no, no, Michael.
No, Michael.
I don't... michael no mike i i don't okay so so yeah was mike's dm so i think that with things like chill guy i do wonder if it was in that positive or negative in terms of retaining
new people coming in as a result of purchasing chill guy but i do i do believe that memes are a net positive i i in my opinion from
what i've seen anecdotally people that join crypto because of the memes some of them get ultra most
of them get ultra wrecked but some of them end up staying a good amount of them end up staying
because they do see that this is a different kind of technology and it's a new paradigm.
I want to hear from the healer of the week.
I think Seth wanted her to give us a crystal ball prediction.
So if you'd like to speak, go ahead, do so.
Otherwise, I've got some requests.
And I also next want to hear from Achilles. And I want to hear the best voice in the history,
the best Trump voice in the history of our country as well.
The seeker, are you with, or sorry, The Healer, are you with us?
Okay.
I don't, I don't think she's with us.
And so therefore I'm going to just remove her from speakers.
I was looking forward to looking into her crystal ball, but unfortunately,
she might not be ready to share with us.
Before I go to Achilles, let's hear the best Trump voice in the history of our country.
Well, I appreciate it.
Thank you, everybody.
I'm very glad to be here.
I did want to come and talk about the nice crypto thing that we've got going.
We've got a lot of things in crypto.
And all eyes are on crypto.
Everybody wants this damn coin.
And in the future, it's going to be incredible.
You've got Bitcoiners that are very happy.
And it's amazing.
It's really amazing.
And it's not going away.
It's not going away.
Lots of very interesting projects I'm hearing. I'm hearing a lot of interesting projects on here.
I like to go into the spaces and listen to all the smart people, all those very, very well-educated people.
These people, they don't waste their time doing all this stupid stuff with the protests.
They actually put their energy where their money is, and that's good.
We want that.
Another thing, you've got some of the top people right here.
That's why you have such a big audience.
Your ratings are through the roof.
It's incredible, so that's great to see.
I don't know if there's any
questions. Maybe we can get to a couple of questions for me or any of these great people.
But I did want to go over a couple of things with crypto. Crypto, it's a very early industry. You
take a look at crypto. It came out and everybody was very, you know, some people were very early, very, very early.
And those are the people that we want.
We want those people because they are really the whales, what they call the whales, right?
And very smart people.
But you've got a very early market and we're going to become the crypto capital of the world.
We have to. We have to be the crypto capital of the world. We have to. We have to
be the crypto capital of the planet. We will be the undisputed Bitcoin superpower, which will,
I think, stabilize a lot of the things in the markets. I mean, you take a look at the markets
they're doing so well. It looks so healthy. It looks so healthy. And everybody talks about different candles and, oh, it's a
God candle. Oh, it's not a good candle. I think it's going to be going through the roof like one
of Elon's rocket ships, right? It's going to go through the roof, but for a lot of you.
And there's some very interesting things going on in this market.
You've got projects that are all over the place.
Some of them are not so good, and others are just incredible.
I'll be honest.
They're incredible.
You've got white papers.
You've got all the papers, everything.
It's nice, but you've got very smart people behind the scenes you've got smart people
if you didn't have smart people i wouldn't believe in it but you've got so many smart
people in the crypto space so i just like to say congratulations because you're going into a market
that's going to be booming it's already booming but it's going to be booming from here on out, and that's all it's going to do.
Okay?
All right.
Do we have any questions?
Yeah.
President Trump, do you think, let's go to the title of the space, do you think that the four-year cycle is a thing of the past?
Well, I don't know.
I think that, well, I'll be honest.
You want me to be honest with you?
I think the four-year cycle, you're going to see something great.
I don't want to overstep, but I think it's going to be incredible.
You've got a lot of potential, a lot of potential in the markets.
People, they're putting all their money in it.
They're putting investments.
They're doing it with real estate.
We have real estate investors in the market as
well. I think it's really going to be incredible. I think it's going to skyrocket. I can't say too
much about it. If I say too much about it, I might get in a little bit of trouble with Congress.
But I think it's got some major potential. Is this a very sophisticated AI or is this an actual human being with the best Trump voice?
It's your favorite. It's your favorite Trump, right? Your favorite. And that's great. So,
Moby, I appreciate it. I do appreciate it. We've got some top people in here.
It's unbelievable, man. That's so good. I've never heard anything.
Achilles, do you have any questions for President Trump?
I think that is President Trump.
I don't have any questions.
I honestly think that was Donald Trump.
Great job.
I have a question for the president.
It's an important question for for the people of crypto
gaming you know we're down bad we're we're looking for an outlet and you did say at some point
during your 2018 campaign that you'd be supporting the crypto space what are you going to be doing
for the crypto gaming folks that can barely go ahead and afford ramen noodles at this point. That's interesting, actually.
Now, I think that the crypto market, it's really bullish, right?
That's the word everybody uses, bullish, right?
And I think that you've got the gaming market that's really bullish as well.
You've got gaming that has gone through the roof.
I know that there's some controversies on the violence and everything else
in some of the games,
but we're working on it behind the scenes.
We're working on it.
But I do believe that the gamers,
I mean, with the crypto projects,
I think that's going to be very interesting to see.
Michael, you got...
Yeah, all Discord moderators are on the world
voted for you, so thank you.
I appreciate it.
Michael, any questions for our president?
I do.
Papa Trump.
Go ahead, Michael.
Papa Trump.
You said we're going to be
tired of winning.
Can you DM me how high the candle is going to go?
Possibly, if you want to DM me We could talk about it, maybe
Because you've got a lot of other things going on
In the markets right now
I don't want to get in too much of a trouble
You've got people that are probably right now. I don't want to get in too much of a trouble.
You've got people that are probably right now writing the impeachment papers as we speak.
It's not good.
But no, to be honest, I think the market's doing well.
We don't receive, so I'm going to ask for Alfa.
It's true.
Well, maybe.
I don't know.
I don't want to give too much information,
but definitely shoot me a DM, okay?
We'll talk about it.
Imagine if this is actually Donald Trump on an alt account and Justin.
Imagine if this is actually Donald Trump, Justin, on an alt account and we're all getting
running from him.
This is on the off chance.
This is really donald
trump um i'm very impressed either way um so so we all have to know i mean you're here with the
crypto bros we hear you're here with the crypto bros trump you can be honest with us are you well
i that's just i hate that damn question i'm so over that stupid question. It has nothing related to crypto.
And I think it's a total hoax.
You take a look at the things that happened today.
A total hoax by a lot of crazy people.
They want to ask this stupid question.
They've been asking it for too long.
So why not just release it?
No, no.
Excuse me.
We already had a nice little discussion about it earlier so i'll redirect you there okay you take a look at what we've talked
about maybe you just haven't seen it but uh no we talked about it they're gonna handle it and
they've been handling it but it takes a little bit of time. You've got some corrupt left-wing lunatic judges that get in our way.
They get in our way so bad, but it's going to come to a close, hopefully.
But whatever information that comes out, they're not going to be satisfied.
Nobody's going to be satisfied.
It's like the JFK files.
We released a lot of those, right?
I don't know if anybody even read them because that was a lot of paper.
That was a lot of paper.
But no, I think that we need to focus on the crypto discussion.
We're talking about crypto.
Crypto.
One more question, and it's going to be a crypto question.
So of all due respect, Mr. President.
Go ahead.
What are your thoughts on the President of the United States,
which is an esteemed position in the world, launching a meme coin?
Maybe you can expand on why you think that's good or bad.
Why I think that the meme coin is good?
Well, I think meme coins, they're really interesting. You've got a
lot of volatility there. So it's a little riskier. I'll be honest, everything's a risk. Everything
in life is a risk. You have to go in life winning. You got to go in life losing a little bit.
But you learn. And the more you learn, the much more intelligent you become.
You have to have smarts.
And if you do your research, I think you can make a lot of money
and you can get a lot of things going.
But no, let me just talk about the meme coin space a little bit.
A lot of people, they throw lots of money away in the meme coin space
because they don't know what the hell they're doing.
You've got people that don't know what they're doing,
but then there's other people that know what they're doing.
They're making a lot of money.
So much money, it's quite unbelievable.
But that's good for them.
And I commend them on their strategy
because there's a lot of strategy behind that.
That's good.
I'm not sure what should be commended
because if they're
making money at the expense of other people. Why not? I mean, they figured it out. I would say
that they figured that whole system out, but we're working on it. We're working a lot with crypto.
I don't know if you caught the live space with Eric, Eric was in a live space with American Bitcoin, which was really incredible.
I mean, they talked a lot about Bitcoin, the markets and everything else.
But, you know, they debanked a lot of people, OK, including me and my whole family.
They debanked us.
So we had to figure something out.
Right.
We figured something out. We cameanked us. So we had to figure something out, right? We figured something out.
We came into the space and it was actually really Baron and Eric and Don. They came into the space.
They met so many great people and it was incredible. I mean, you can't even make this up.
It was incredible. The amount of information that these people know is so incredible.
amount of information that these people know is so incredible. It's on a large scale. They know
how it works. And I'll be honest, I don't know too much about it, right? But I've got some smart
people around me and we're making things happen. That's the most important part. We're making
things happen. I would maybe take a close look at the people around you and what they're telling
you about crypto, a much closer look than what you are now.
Because, I mean, if you don't know crypto,
it's very easy for someone to come along and give you bad advice.
You know?
True.
I would say true.
But I think we've got some top people.
Everybody's in on it.
They're all in.
They're working very hard.
You've got some smartest people. people well i wouldn't say that
you know i wouldn't uh go this is amazing this feels just like talking to what i would imagine
talking like trump is like right down i mean who knows maybe this is trump on his old account right
but like wow this is pretty that's what i'm saying it. It's incredible. Like this is not, this is not even like parody Trump.
This is just.
The man thinks like Trump.
Like,
don't even try to tell me otherwise.
Like,
nice try,
nice try.
So I want to hear from the people actually.
I came in here.
I was listening to what you were talking about.
I want to hear some of your concerns.
What are the main things about crypto that you like and what you don't like
about crypto? I know there's a lot of people in here that are very smart and very big investors.
So I want to hear it from you. Well, I don't like President's launching meme coins. I'm just
going to say that. Sorry, go ahead. When are we going to bring to light all the corruption in the crypto space?
Well, I think there's a lot of problems with it.
I know you're talking about corruption, but you've got a lot of corrupt people in Congress that have been taking a lot of the opportunities, like Nancy, like crazy Nancy. And I don't want to get sued by her
because I don't want to do that. I'm suing a lot of other people, so I don't need to get that
in the works. But crazy Nancy, you take a look at her net worth. I mean, it's gone insane.
There's somebody that's not paid that much. She's gone insane with her net worth. So
that's not paid that much.
She's gone insane with her net worth.
So we're taking a look at a lot of these people in stocks and everything.
But crypto, you've got a lot of problems in crypto.
I mean, it's an early stage development.
You know what that means, right?
There's a lot of problems, but there's a lot of upsides too.
And we're taking a look at all the things that we can do about it.
We don't want it to be where you can be debanked. We don't need that. We want people to have the
freedom. We want them to have freedom of financial stability and financial freedom all around the
board. If they have this opportunity, I think it's top i think it's gonna be great i want to
go a little bit deeper into this so if you're gonna ban congress from trading stocks and options
and everything don't you think that they would then so all of the risky behavior that they were
doing in the web 2 and traditional stock market don't you think it's going to come onto a
decentralized area and we're going
to see more volatility in terms of corruption on the blockchain because as option markets
stocks are placing it onto the blockchain we're unable to view who funded which wallet and
it's going to lead to higher higher trades on there well i think that that's a very valid concern.
We'll talk about it.
Okay.
We'll have to talk about it.
Maybe shoot me a DM about that.
And we'll go into a little research about it because I hear that's a big play in some
areas, right?
That's a thing that might be a problem.
And also foreign countries.
If you have foreign countries that are able to really do a lot to the market, you know that like Asia, okay?
You've got Asia that has all these different things, and they go into the market, and they manipulate it by a lot.
So we have to do some regulating, maybe, in that area.
But I think that's something that I need to have a little bit of a word
with some advisors on that, right?
President Trump, your administration,
you have done some incredible things so far for our industry.
And like you said, you aim to make the U.S. crypto capital of the world.
So when your term is over, do you worry that the Democratic administration rose up?
They would do a lot or they would undo a lot of your great work.
And would you consider running for a third term or would one of your sons or Gaten Vans consider running instead?
Well, I think, I think JD is doing an incredible job.
He's doing an incredible job and he knows what's going on.
So we want to keep, actually, I think we should keep the people to be honest.
If we just keep the people where they are the next four years,
which means that we have to win, you know, we have to win.
And that also includes not only the presidential, but the midterms.
That's a big one.
So actually, that's one of the points that I'm going to make here.
You have to get out.
You've got a lot of influential people here.
Lots of money.
Lots of smarts.
We have to win the midterms. This is the most important election, I would say by far,
because we can get so much of the make America great again agenda done. And we've already gotten
a lot done, but we want to get more done. We've had the Senate. We've had the House by a very slim
majority. I'll be honest, very slim, but we need to increase that. We need to increase it by a lot.
They say, sir, you're going to lose the midterms. Sir, sir. No, no. They also said that about the
election that we won by a landslide, 312 electoral votes.
So I think we need to get out the vote.
We need to swap the vote.
And we need to be too big to rig.
And that actually, I think, starts with all these people in this space right now.
If you're listening, you can make a big difference.
You know, Elon made a pretty nice difference with that.
You know, he did a lot.
He did a lot.
So did Scott Pressler with Pennsylvania. So I think really you have all these people that are here,
lots of smarts, lots of brains, and we need that to win. We have to win. You can't have communism.
You can't have radical socialism in our country. That will not work. It's never worked, and it's not going to work in our country.
So you need to go out.
You need to find the people.
You need to make our country strong when it comes to winning the election.
We have to win.
We have to win.
If we're not winning, it's going to be very, very difficult,
and they will do everything that they can.
They already tried to impeach me already.
You take a look at Al Smith.
Crazy Al Smith, by the way.
Crazy guy.
But they keep writing these things up.
I talked to somebody else, actually, last night.
I talked to a guy who's running in Texas.
He's just not doing too well in the polls, I'll be honest,
but he was on TikTok.
And so I went up there.
I said, sir, what are you going to do about the crime?
And he took it like a joke.
He took it like a complete and utter joke.
That's why he's not going to win, okay?
But it's so incredible what we can do.
You have to get out there there and you have to start
winning okay because if we get these crazy people i asked him i was like you know are you gonna just
go ahead and try and impeach me or whatever and he said yes sir i'm going to do it i'm going to
do it i said no no we can't have that i don't think he's going to do too well in the election, I'll be honest. But I think that we need to get out there and we need to start doing things
that are just really great for our elections. First, what I'm doing is we're going to stop
the cheating. There's a lot of cheating going on. I mean, these are smart people,
not when it comes to policy, but when it comes to cheating,
they cheat like hell and they cheat so much. They know how to do it. So we're going to secure
elections. We're going to have, I don't know if you know this, but we're going to have voter ID,
every state national voter ID. Why people don't want that? Because want to teach that's what they want to do so we got a lot of other things in the works but uh that's a big one but you you are the people
that have to change this okay you have to make sure that this happens i know we're talking about
crypto but uh it relates to your market so i would say that you have to protect your market.
President Trump, last question for me, and then we can close things out. What are the chances that we as a country generate enough revenue from these tariff deals that we can remove, if not lower substantially, capital gains tax, income tax, and property tax?
Well, I think that we can do it. We have to do it. But you're going to get a lot of pushback.
These people, they want high taxes. These are the same people, by the way, that ran on raising your taxes.
that ran on raising your taxes.
Many years, I've always heard politicians say,
they're going to lower your taxes, they're going to lower this,
and they're lowering that.
And this is really the first time that I've heard the nonsense
from these people that they want to raise your taxes.
How they could possibly win, I don't even know.
But they're crazy.
I think they're way too far left and way too radical.
I mean, these are radical people.
They want to take your money, and they want to spend it on stupid things like fish gender studies, right?
Remember that?
We talked about fish gender studies.
It's so stupid.
and many other things.
And many other things.
Instead of fixing your crime problems in these major cities
that we're now having to send the National Guard
into to fix it up, okay?
Look at D.C.
Crime is down 100%, no crime.
And that's because of me.
That's because of the smart people that said enough is enough, right?
So we need to get that across the board.
We're going into Chirac.
They call it Chirac.
That's the nickname for Chicago because it's just how bad it is.
It's so disgusting what they've done to Chicago because I've got properties there.
And what they did to that beautiful city is just a total disgrace.
It's a total disgrace. It's a total disgrace.
And they need to really start working on that because I don't understand.
I watched a very, very young man.
His name is Nick Shirley.
So shout out to Nick Shirley.
I don't think he's listening because I don't know.
He's out there reporting like nobody can believe.
He's a very brave young man.
And he's out there reporting.
And he went into Iraq.
Okay.
And it's about 20 minutes.
It's actually the latest video.
And I watched it.
I said, wow, they have like six guns for every three people.
They have six guns.
You realize that that's like double.
So when they're talking about they brought so many guns off the street,
that number needs to be in the thousands, okay? Not the hundreds because there's so many problems
in there. There's so much crime. And we're going in and we're fixing it, okay? It's very simple.
And they have to let us do it. If they don't let us do it, then they're going to have problems.
I'll be honest. They're going to have a lot of problems.
So we're going to go in.
We're going to fix the crime.
And we're going to make our city safe again.
We have to make our city safe again.
But you take a look at what these people have done.
They're pro-crime.
They're pro-cashless bail.
They're pro-cheating.
They're pro-everything that's wrong in our country
so you can't have them okay you really just can't have them so i think that's what we're
going to do and we're going to do it and we're going to be very strong about it
steph do you have a question for the president and then we can let him go he's a big
wrap things up as well yep absolutely do thank. Thank you so much for diversifying your very, very busy schedule to slum it with us,
us crypto degenerates. We knew you were one of us all along and this is the confirmation that we
need in our hearts. Thank you. My question is, when Epstein coin, I don't care about the disclosure,
I just want the coin because I want to be all that lp it
against trump
and malania
well i don't know that that but
has anybody heard of news cam is gonna
he said he's wanting to start a coin
news and gavin news can
who let his entire
uh... state burned to the ground
he wants to start a coin
and i think it's going to go
too well for him i'll be honest i don't think it's going to go too well he's not he's definitely not
hitting the number i mean we hit such a large record number like nobody could believe and it's
really great but uh his his coin's gonna crash and burn i really do believe it. But I don't think the Epstein coin is going to be a thing.
I don't know.
It's probably been made like several of them just on my statement alone.
That's how everything works.
I just say one little thing and they make a bunch of coins.
They make 20 coins.
That stupid thing.
Maybe.
I don't know.
Check the market.
You have to check the market. Maybe it's already a thing. Maybe. I don't know. Check the market. You have to check the market.
Maybe it's already a thing.
Thank you, Mr. President.
And thank you, everyone, for joining today's Aquarian episode.
Please, please follow the speakers.
Follow the Mobi account.
Retweet the space.
Remember that everything you hear on these broadcasts is meant for educational
purposes only. Nothing is financial advice. So be safe out there and we'll see you all on this one
soon. Take care. Again, President Trump, thank you so much for being with us. God bless you
and God bless America. Of course. Thank you, Moby.
