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IS THE METAVERSE A PIPE DREAM?? ☀️☕️ GM W3B3 Morning Show Ep207
Recorded: May 31, 2023 Duration: 1:58:09Space Recording
Full Transcription
Happy motherfucking hump day, NiftyQ.
What's up, brother?
Another day in the biz.
Can't get worse.
Can't do worse than yesterday.
Dude, I thought that Chungo stuff was a joke.
Well, it is a joke, but it's also a real thing.
I'm confused.
This space is not confusing at all, though.
It's very, very, very clear and obvious what's going on here.
Oh, man.
Waking up.
Jeff Jags here.
So, Q, you got a last-minute trip.
What's going on with that?
Yes, sir.
Unfortunately, I'm headed up to Philadelphia, so my least favorite city in the U.S.
Check, check.
Hey, yo.
There's your Ryan Carson voice.
There he is.
GM Jeff.
Hey, how's it going?
I'm going to help you all out and make some voices happen, because I know how it feels being the only one on stage.
I don't know what you're talking about.
We are surrounded by so many of our good friends already.
Oh, right.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, you know, Nifty Q, welcome.
But, yeah.
But, like, but when you open that room and it's, like, the first few minutes, you know.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's slow.
It's a slow start.
My name is Jeff.
Oh, who is that for?
There's no one here.
It's for you.
It's for you, big guy.
You have your own.
You are the only person.
That has their own sound effect, as far as I know.
Am I really?
I think so.
Yeah.
Who else has their own sound effect?
Dee's nuts.
I don't.
Yeah, man.
I guess I have two.
Yeah, I won't.
The queen.
The queen.
How does it go?
The queen laughed.
No, no.
Oh, God.
I got to say this right.
Balls, said the queen.
If I had to, I'd be king.
The king laughed, not because he wanted to, because he had to.
Because he had to.
Yeah.
Hmm.
Yeah.
There.
I got it right on the third try.
Are these jokes?
What's happening?
Dead jokes from my actual head.
What is happening right now?
This.
Everything's a mess.
Yeah, no.
I mean, yesterday was a rug fire.
Is that what Twitter was yesterday?
A rug fire?
Hmm.
Like a dumpster full of rugs on fire.
Yes, exactly.
Yep.
That's a, I feel like an accurate way to describe it.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
And I don't even know, like, yeah.
I mean, what are your thoughts, Jeff?
Be, be candid with all of this big audience that we have so far in here.
Yeah, sure.
Don't, don't, don't hold back.
You know what I mean?
For everyone in here.
Tell us how you really feel.
You're hitting me up in the DMs right now, asking me how I feel about yesterday.
Anyway, the, the, the, I think the main problem is not that a guy asked for money.
I think the main problem is that people thought they'd get something for giving him money.
Interesting.
Interesting.
Yeah.
I don't even know.
I haven't, I don't think I've fully caffeinated.
I don't think I've caffeinated.
Okay.
Well, I mean, in context of like, there is a little bit of, there's responsibility on
the person asking because they are not checking their privilege.
But I mean, I guess he got like over 80.
Yesterday when I talked to, when I was listening in the space, he said he had just over two
E from, for the iPhone.
And, and it was, someone reported it was eight yesterday at late at night.
Are we talking about, are we talking about Borovic?
Like, yes.
So, so people kept giving that guy money for his iPhone after he had way more than enough
to buy a new iPhone.
And he, and he apparently, allegedly has a wallet with 75 ETH in it.
So, you know, he's like, you know, getting, he's getting flack for having money and asking
for money, which is something that a privileged person would do.
However, that's not necessarily wrong.
It's just doesn't look great.
So, so it's just, you know, I mean, I come from it from a point of view of like, everyone
is allowed to ask for something.
And if you give them something, like ultimately responsibility lies on the people donating
the money.
Yeah.
Right.
I, I suppose so.
But, but there's also like this whole question of like, yeah, they're like, they seem like
they, they're, you know, they've been around a while, but does that make them valuable?
Does he provide value to the community?
He has an OpenSea collection.
And I went and looked at it, it's baby's first mid journey, you know, so it's, it's
nothing, it's, it's, it's nothing more than a couple of random thoughts from someone who
really clearly doesn't have, um, artistically inclined abilities.
No, no.
I mean, did you say, did you call it baby's first mid journey?
That's not my term, but yes.
Yeah.
It's my favorite way to describe it.
That's actually hilarious.
So shout out to, I'm, I'm, I'm, go ahead.
I was saying I'm offended, right?
Well, I mean, like, here's, here's the thing.
Low, low talent art isn't bad.
Like it's, it's not bad to buy low talent art.
It's not bad to try to sell it.
It's not bad that it exists.
I'm for everyone trying to express themselves.
I'm for more art in the world.
The more art, the better.
And so I also very rarely express opinions about art not being good.
I, I really keep that to myself a lot of the time, but in this case, I find that someone
who's, who's a, you know, an influencer who's, who's got a stage and who, you know, will only
let their friends on stage to talk with them about the controversy that happened, which is
fine.
That's his right to do that.
But it's also like, you know, you, if you're going to be doing these things in public and
asking for money, you're open to criticism and everyone can have an opinion.
So I don't know.
I mean, like I wouldn't openly criticize most people's artwork.
I think there's a specific case here where he would, uh, he kind of opens himself up to
that by what he did.
Yeah.
What do you think?
I feel like, I feel like gift doesn't want, I, I, my connection is probably terrible and
my mic's probably worse, but I feel like gift, like you don't, you don't want to lean into
this stuff, but it looks like nobody wants to talk metaverse.
Oh, metaverse.
Let's get into it.
Let's get into it.
Yeah.
I mean, we'll, we'll, we'll talk.
No, no, no, not at all.
This is what's on everybody's mind is like the dumpster full of rugs on fire that was
yesterday.
So we're, we're leading off with the latest and greatest from web.
People had hurt feelings.
A lot of people, like so many tweets, gifts, so many tweets were put in.
Posting things like here's my ETH address and shitposting about it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's, it's, it's, it's a whole new meta, which is sending money to people and random wallets
and influencers for no good reason.
But like, I, okay.
So I'll try, I'll transition, but I'm just going to say like part of the whole thing is
that this has been around from the beginning, like having an ETH address with an EMS attached
to it.
The intent is so that you can send me ETH.
That's one of the main purposes of the EMS address.
So it's not like that wasn't the case.
Sure.
That wasn't like the intended use case.
So like, this isn't new.
I think what, I think what people get upset about it is the fact that people actually
sent him money for something so ridiculous.
And they're like, well, there's a lot of artists, you know, that are selling work, you
know, that could use that.
And that's always been the case where people say, you know, I see that money going in
and I think it's more better spent here.
That's not, it's not for them to say.
And I think the final nail in the coffin for me to kind of end this topic was I don't really
think the most of the liquidity that's been going to, you know, these meme coin pumps like
Ben and, and, you know, these ETH addresses, I honestly think like the vast majority of that
money is money laundering.
I think that it's actually their own money and they're, they're getting a lot of money
on top of that by faking the influx of money.
And, and, you know, that's fine because you, you double your money when everyone else thinks
they're, you know, septupling their money.
I mean, these are big, bold assertions.
Allegedly.
Yeah.
We don't, we don't really have any definitive proof on any of that, but it's an interesting
take.
Thank you for qualifying me.
Sure.
Well, I mean, you know, it's, you know, you're, you're up on stage with us saying some things.
I don't know if they're true or not.
These opinions are my own.
I'm not.
I'll say that.
Yes.
Yes.
And it's not, you know, it's, it could be true.
It could be true.
And you know what?
It's, it's a, it's a fine time for us to go ahead and start the show by saying this
is not financial advice and information was found publicly on the internet.
Opinions shared on this episode are solely of the Web3 team or of Jeff Jack.
In this case, all information is public domain.
And please D Y O R do your own research.
Of course, nobody listens to that last part though.
Do they, um, in this space, but Hey, that's okay.
We'll keep saying it, do your own research because we're not financial advisors and this
space is an absolute dumpster fire.
And yeah, I, I know you guys hate me bringing up ICOs all the time, but it's actually fucking
hilarious how roundabout we've gotten.
Like I think in a Chungo's tweet, they were talking about soft cap and hard cap and the,
the way that ICOs raised funds was exactly what's happening right now.
Like there wasn't any, there, there was simply, you sent ETH to a fuck, to an address.
Like, like what's happening right now is how ICOs raise money.
It's really interesting.
It's, it's a ridiculous, do you see it ridiculous roundabout?
We've taken, you see this being cyclical then.
I, uh, look, I'm not going to get that deep with it.
I think it's hilarious that we've ended up back at the beginning.
It's, it's kind of like how bell bottoms are coming back into style, you know, they are
and, and, and there's really absolutely no, no really good reason why it's, it's more
just like, because fashion needs to keep pumping out new fast fashion and like new ways to get
people to buy shit.
That's basically it.
Like there's really no reason for bell bottoms to be, to be making a comeback at this point.
But, but, uh, Hey, they were a thing once, maybe there'll be a thing again.
Let's, let's try and sell, let's try selling this shit, you know?
So the metaverse.
We'll get, we'll get there.
No, there's like, we don't, we don't, we don't have to, we don't have to like shoehorn our
way into force the issue of the metaverse.
There's an announcement from Apple coming June 5th that people have been tweeting about.
You know, the, the Apple headset, it's the WWDC, which is their device.
So typically what they do is they announce new operating systems, new features, new apps.
They announce the software and the new functionality that you'll be able to program with because
they want to get developers on the train and making things for things.
Sometimes they announce hardware at WWDC.
Not always, but they're expecting to announce the hardware because people need to develop the
software for a headset.
So that's the thought is that it's coming.
And if that's the case and their teaser says something about programming new world, that
there's, there's some thought process there that leads to Apple's thinking about the metaverse.
Apple's going to make a play in that, in stake a claim in that way.
And with a headset in the works, that would be the time to start talking about worlds.
Well, so this is a good, maybe this is the question that we can lead off of as we kick
things off.
It's been a slow start here this morning, but GM, everybody, thank you for joining us.
We are happy to see you in here.
If you haven't shared out the room, go on down to that little, that little icon speech bubble
in the bottom, right?
Give it a light, give it a retweet, drop some dank memes or some emojis, maybe some puke
emojis, or if, is there a dumpster fire emoji?
Um, maybe, maybe a trash can with some fire emojis next to it.
Go ahead and put that in the comments, retweet it, share it out.
We really, really appreciate you helping us get the word out and get a few more friends
in here.
We're going to have an awesome conversation today because what else can you do other than
talk about all the crazy stuff that's been happening?
Uh, but also we want to dig into the metaverse.
So maybe this is the question, Jeff, if you can find those details about Apple's upcoming
events and you want to pin that, that, that'd be helpful.
But maybe the question is, can Apple save the metaverse?
I mean, it seems like Mark Zuckerberg has been, you know, caught too much flack and had to
pause everything he's been doing.
Uh, it seems like a lot of the crypto native web three startups aren't doing a hot, doing
a good job.
They aren't doing too hot right now.
So maybe, maybe Apple's the savior.
I don't know.
We'll, we'll dig into that and much, much more.
We're going to dig into, uh, all things metaverse as well as of course, some of the biggest web
three headlines happening around the space.
I am gifted your humble web three shirt, but this is GM web three, the greatest morning
show that anybody has ever, ever seen.
And, uh, we're already joined by some of our favorite co-hosting contributors up here.
If you and Jeff Jack, thanks for, uh, thanks for being here, kicking it off with us as we
get things going on a slow Wednesday.
Uh, and all right, without further ado, you know, we'll, we'll, we'll play some tunes real
quick.
We'll just set a vibe.
We haven't done that yet.
So, uh, yeah, thanks for sharing that up top.
Let's, let's go ahead and get it going with some music just to, you know, maybe get a little
bit more energy going in here.
This is sad in the summer, the remix by Diplo and Lily Rose.
We'll be back in just, just a minute.
Hope you like it.
Share out the room.
Let's heck and go.
You know, you know, this won't last a lifetime.
That don't mean that we should be alone tonight.
Baby, we got good thing going.
So don't leave me blue with this guy.
I don't want to be sad in the summer, so please don't let me go till it's over.
I don't want to be sad in the summer, so you just hold me close a little longer.
I don't want to be sad in the summer, so sad in the summer, so sad in summer, no.
If you stay, I'll make the most of it, it's not bad.
I'll be too late, leave what we have behind.
Baby, we got a good thing going, so don't leave me bluer than the sky.
Tell me that we can keep it rolling, I will be yours and you will be mine.
I'm sad in the summer, so sad in the summer.
Oh, baby.
That is sad in the summer, the remix by Diplo and Lily Rose.
How sad are you right now?
Oh, man.
I mean, dude, yesterday was a rough day.
I think everybody's like feeling gross.
I think everybody's feeling gross about yesterday.
I mean, obviously, you know, we'll just hit it real quick and then we'll, you know, we
don't have to spend too much time on it.
But the gist of it was, you know, obviously there's this new sort of quote unquote meta.
There's this like everybody just sending ETH to influencers and random wallets, which
is annoying and obnoxious to what Jeff's saying about, you know, there's a lot of better ways
to be, I don't know, using that liquidity, helping out artists or supporting legit causes.
And then, of course, there's the whole Andrew Wang nonsense, right?
So Andrew Wang is a prominent figure in space, was basically promoting somebody that, you
know, he thought was a legit person.
He got socially engineered, though.
He didn't do enough of his own research.
This is my understanding of what happened.
He didn't do enough good research on it.
He got totally socially engineered, convinced that, you know, there was this student or this
girl with cancer and that he was doing a good thing by helping to promote her frickin NFT
project.
Got a bunch of people aping into it.
Then, of course, it turns out it's a rug.
Of course.
So everybody thought, you know, basically somebody used cancer as a way to scam people, you know,
a cancer story to scam people out of fucking their crypto.
So that's all the stuff that came to light yesterday.
And yeah, I think everybody feels pretty gross right now.
I was tweeting like, you know, have we hit rock bottom yet?
Like it's it feels like we keep finding new bottoms right now.
You know what I mean?
Like it feels like we keep going lower.
Like we just keep finding new lows.
People keep I feel like people keep getting dumber.
That that's what I don't really understand is that you like you would you would think after
a couple of years of, you know, NFTs, at least being bigger, you know, having more retail
traders in the space, seeing crypto Twitter influencers and like in all different types
of influencers and, you know, big names in the space doing shitty, shady things and rugging
and the Logan Paul stories and coffee Zilla.
Like, I don't know, man, you would think that we would be collectively getting a little bit smarter.
But like, you know, my tweet was basically saying, you know, as as many strange and weird
metas and trends that we've seen in the space, like this is the dumbest meta like this.
This whole just sending you to random fucking wallets for no good reason is the dumbest fucking meta.
Maybe it's something bullish, though.
You know, kind of twisted on its head a little bit.
Go ahead.
But I would love to I would love to see the mental gymnastics happening.
Let's let's do it.
Go ahead.
Get a call.
Of course, I get a call right when that happens.
Maybe it's maybe it's bullish in the fact that if people are willing to go to even these bare minimum
like levels to give somebody their ETH, maybe there will be another bull run.
Maybe people will, in fact, spend ETH on anything.
And that's my take.
Thank you for having my TED talk.
Bull run 2024.
It's a casino.
Everybody's going to spend money on the next run, whatever the fuck that is.
Bruh.
Yeah, I think if if we're trying to paint some kind of positive picture out of all of this nonsense,
it's I mean, you could say that, you know, there's definitely still people here with liquidity looking for places to put it.
And like there's still plenty of people that will buy into all different types of things without without much good reason.
And so maybe that's a bullish signal for the future of collectibles and NFC projects to still be here doing well.
I don't know.
I think the other nice thing, if you're again trying to put lipstick on this pig, is that, you know, people showed up to try and do a good thing.
You know, there is still a people wanting to do good in crypto.
That was that was the that was the intention behind the whole Andrew Wang situation.
The intention, I think, was good unless.
OK, I unless we want to go like hardcore conspiracy about that, because there's also there's also some weird stuff with that.
What's up, Mo GM?
She's like, no, please don't.
I'm sorry.
I came in this room feeling like super excited about learning about ordinals this morning.
And and then you're having a poop party in here.
So I'm just coming to bring the portal heat up in this place.
We're doing a room on that today.
I know you are.
But so what that's actually why I'm excited for a little bit.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's actually why I was I was doing a little research because I don't want to come in there sounding like I know nothing at all.
So now I know a little bit more than nothing.
Well, so what's what has you excited specifically today about ordinals?
Like it was there a new drop or just what's what like we've you know, we've been talking about it quite a bit over the last couple months.
But what is it today that has you especially excited about?
Well, because I'm learning about it today.
But so I was in a room last night with logic.
I really enjoy logic style of hosting a room because he's just he's like, there are no dumb questions.
And so we started talking about ordinals like actually how to do it.
You know, it's not just, you know, OK, ordinals are cool, whatever, whatever.
Like, but actually, how do you do it as an artist in the space?
And so we started to go down the rabbit hole with this guy.
His name is failing me right now, but I'll find it.
And he's actually really knowledgeable and he explains it very well.
And so that got me excited because I feel like it's just it seems like a place where people are doing stuff and sending stuff in a trusting way.
You know, you trust other people and maybe it's not like I'm just going to give you my money for no reason.
But there's like maybe the meta in the spaces.
We should all be starting to trust each other a little bit more.
Get rid of the scammers.
And I don't know.
There's something happening.
That's a really interesting take given what was transpiring yesterday.
But, you know, I do appreciate you.
I have no idea what happened yesterday.
Oh, OK, cool.
Can I jump in on that topic?
Like the specific thing that I think I want to take issue with is that we shouldn't be trusting people.
We shouldn't expect to trust people.
And the real, real ethos of crypto is a trustless system.
Yeah, that's the that's a very fine line.
But you don't have to worry about it if it's trustless, if it takes care of itself, if it's programmatic.
If you have to trust someone to do a transaction, that's when you open yourself up to getting scammed.
Yeah, for sure.
And I and I believe that.
But there is stuff happening right now where people, you know, maybe maybe they they're not doing it with the intent of getting anything back.
But they're kind of being like, OK, here's my Bitcoin.
I hope you send me something back.
And people are doing it.
So it's I'm not saying this is a good idea, guys.
I'm kind of confused.
It's kind of fun.
It's kind of fun.
All right. Well, I I'm glad it's fun.
I appreciate you bring us a little bit of positive energy in here, at least, Mo, because, yes, we started off on a little bit of a down note, just given the state of crypto Twitter and Web3.
And again, well, I like calling it a dumpster full of rugs on fire that that is the space right now.
And yeah, we don't have to spend too much more time on all that.
A couple of quick announcements.
There is, you know, Mo, you were talking about this project grapes, the grapes that you're excited about that is minting right now.
And it's on OpenSea.
So it's an interesting one.
I was thinking I might try and get one.
It's not a very expensive mint price.
It is an Animoca brands project.
You know, I don't know that much about it, but it looks like these grapes have been designed to be cross media, family friendly, entertainment, IP, transcending web through gaming TV products, experiences and licensing.
So I don't know.
It's an Animoca project.
Animoca project.
It's already close to halfway minted out and the public mint opens up at 10 a.m. PST.
So if you're interested in checking that out, that's on OpenSea.
Mo, did you get any or are you are you minting one?
Actually, I totally forgot.
So I was in a room this morning, like I said, talking about ordinals.
And it gave me first of all, it wasn't recorded.
So that was kind of a little bit of a throwback, but it was giving me like early, early vibes, early like clubhouse vibes because everyone was talking about the alpha.
I don't know.
They're kind of a little bit D Jenny.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Ordinals are definitely a new, a whole new meta that's getting a lot of excitement again.
Um, but yeah, anyway, the grapes, uh, point zero three nine.
So not super expensive.
I might try and pick one up.
Uh, another big announcement today is only day.
They've been hyping up a bunch of different things happening on their, uh, I don't want to call it a roadmap, the comeback tour.
I think that's what they're calling it.
The comeback tour is in full effect.
And today's a big day.
And so actually today at 10 AM PST also is there, excuse me, their space.
The only day space should be a really big space with a lot of announcements that is also pinned up at the top.
I think I am going to be making that because we do not have NFT live today.
So that's a quick announcement, no NFT live today.
So if you want to join the only space directly after this, I'm going to be jumping over into there and listening in to see what's going on.
Uh, and then, Hey, nifty Q has an announcement.
It looks like you got some, uh, some exciting news about the wild, wild web.
Yeah.
Excuse my connection.
Uh, if I'm like cuts in and out, let me know, but yeah, I sat down with Henry the grape yesterday.
Uh, after the other side podcast, I recorded too.
So this one was the second and we decided to put this one out, uh, today.
And, uh, it was, it was on cyber Kongs, uh, and cyber Kongs.
We've been touching on for, for a while, uh, right.
Whenever the rate, my bags rankings come out or just like when they have any news come out, we, we know that they have Providence in the space being one of the largest projects, uh, in NFTs.
So that was a good conversation, man.
And like a little bit of alpha that I pulled from, and I hate the term alpha.
Um, but a little alpha I pulled from the episode that you can listen to as well as we've been talking about Genkai.
Right.
So they've been releasing the, these like not pixelated animations, uh, that are like diving deep into their IP and we didn't know exactly what they were.
They kind of keep it under wraps and Genkai is actually their, their next collection drop.
So that's going to happen in July.
Uh, there's not many details other than the fact that he said, uh, Genesis Kongs and babies both yield a, a, uh, I think Genesis Kongs will yield two of, of these, this Genkai collection and babies will yield an open kind of public sale for them.
Um, but I mean, that's a, that's a huge IP, right? Like that's going to, that's going to drop a collection, but what's up?
Well, you kind of, you kind of cut in and out there, but to summarize what you're saying is that you had an awesome conversation with one of the cyber Kongs team members and they're talking about Genkai being their expansion to the cyber Kongs ecosystem coming in July.
And obviously all of this is in this new episode of wild, wild web, excuse me.
But the, some of the biggest alpha there is that Genkai, uh, the, the OG cyber Kongs will get to allow list spots or two mint opportunities and the babies will get one.
Um, so yeah, I'm, I'm trying to pick up a baby because of this news. So I've got, I've got, I've got a bid in.
Yeah. I just, the way that the cyber Kongs are set up right now and apologies again, if I cut out, but the way it's set up is like, they, they, I don't think that they have that big of a reach on Twitter, which I think, you know, leans into the fact that it's like, this is a little bit of alpha or alpha, whatever you want to call it. I'm just tired of saying that word, but I don't think a lot of the, the NFT space knows about the details of this Genkai collection drop.
No, you got, you got it. You got it on, on the podcast, bro. So good for you, man. Congratulations on that. And, uh, thanks for sharing it with us.
Yeah. Hey, Hey, one more thing. You called it on the IP though, too. So we, we didn't know what Genkai was, uh, with this, with this like anime slash like manga look that they're kind of releasing and you were calling it like you need to go this route. If you want to spread the IP.
Great success.
Appreciate you pointing out the fact that, uh, sometimes I'm right about these things. Uh, but the, I mean, the basic point is, is I would, you know, we've been talking a lot about analyzing projects for like, what, what do we think is going to do well in the next bull run? What are the projects that are actually undervalued that are going to come back and keep, you know, keep growing or maintain value longterm? The things that people are going to, that are, that are really going to resonate and that we see like a big future with.
And then like all the different ways that we're trying to understand, like what, what, what, what are the projects that we think are going to do well and why? And one of, one of the biggest, you know, utilities, one of the biggest reasons people buy into NFTs or they resonate is the quality of the IP and the potential for that IP to grow.
So, and I was looking at cyber Kongs because to your point, it has provenance. It is one of the bigger collections. Um, it's got, you know, a ton of total volume. It's got a whole ecosystem. It definitely has some affinity for the project.
It's in a, in a, in a very interesting community, a lot of strong people in it. But the, the reason why I wasn't initially taking it serious at all is because I, I didn't think it was good quality IP or I didn't think that the IP with these pixelated characters had legs.
Like I just didn't see it really transcending in any way beyond the space or growing. And apparently, uh, to what you're speaking of, uh, they, they know that, which is, which is why they're going away from the pixelated art in this new Genkai collection.
So, Hey, all right. I was right about that, but Hey, also at least they're aware of that and they're trying to figure out how they do add more legs onto the cyber Kongs IP. So, uh, you know, that makes me a little bit more bullish and at least understanding that, you know, there's an opportunity to get in on the allow list for what could be a big new collection. That's exciting. Um, so anyway, thanks for the alpha. I don't think you should be so self-conscious about the word alpha. I, it's like, I feel like every time you say it, you have to stop.
And then like qualify using the word it's, it's fine. It's just a word. It's just, it's just, it's just a word.
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Take a shot. If you're at home, take a shot every time we say it though.
Anyway, we're waking up fam. This is GM web three. Share out the room. If you haven't already, uh, because otherwise you're, you're, you're part of the problem, frankly.
Um, and yeah, no, we really appreciate it when you do share out the room makes a big old difference. All right, Jeff, Jack back to, you know, kind of the headline topic metaverse. And then you brought in Apple into this conversation.
So you, you've pinned up here, Apple announcing WWDC. The, uh, apparently the, the new theme is code new worlds, which is looking more and more that they're ready to finally announce their long awaited mixed reality device, mixed reality device.
So there's a bunch of terms and let's start with those. Cause at least we'll talk the same terms. There's XR, which is like encompassing both AR and VR, which stands for extended reality, I guess.
So just like X being a variable. Um, yeah, that sounds right. And, uh, our AR is augmented reality. VR is virtual reality. They're different sides of a scale.
augmented reality. Augmented reality is predominantly, you're actually seeing reality with elements composited on top of it that are virtual. Virtual reality is the entire experience that all your whole vision is virtual reality.
And then there's MR, which is mixed versions between that. So any, any, any part along the sliding scale could be MR. If it's a little bit AR, a little bit VR. So, so like there's, and there's some, but how do you, how do you have, how do you have, how do you, so would, I'm trying to figure out, like, understand what the hardware need would be for MR.
Because to me, what that would look like is you would have some kind of glasses or headset that could shift between being opaque and translucent, like transparent on the outside that can represent the reality inside the camera. And so you can have a version between that's how you get the sliding scale is the cameras are always running, um, to determine your, like, your, you know, your place in, in the room.
But, um, but, um, but there's also the fact that they can be used to put that information back into the screen.
So you can have your whole field of vision encompassed and then have reality pumped through that.
So if you, if you have on a quest, like right now, before you make your circle to stand in where it goes completely into VR, you can still see out with the glasses on.
Oh, there you go. Got it. Um, so again, this begs the question because the, the, the quote unquote metaverse, right, which again, it's, it's, it's become more and more problematic.
I feel like this, this whole term, um, because it's, it's created a lot of hype and expectations that are not necessarily aligned or making sense.
It seems like the whole concept is kind of broken right now, or, you know, given the state of the market and what, and all the speculation that happens, it really feels like, uh, like a lot of things are not working.
Obviously famously Mark Zuckerberg rebranded Facebook, Facebook, Jesus, Facebook, Mark Zuckerberg rebranded Facebook to be meta and, and it invested very heavily in creating, you know, his own version of the metaverse, which so far, uh, has been a pretty big flop, uh, land, you know, virtual land.
And then a lot of these OG quote unquote metaverses or virtual worlds is down 90 to 95%.
And so it, and a lot of people just don't fuck with it.
Like people don't spend a lot of time there.
Most of them are, are, are dead.
You know, there's not a lot happening right now.
So the, so the current state of the quote unquote metaverse and all of the speculation, all of the investment and interest coming out of COVID, a lot of it seems to have gone away.
And it seems like it's, it's kind of a broken concept at this point.
Is Apple, by the way, Facebook is a great name.
You like that is, is Apple what, what is needed?
It can Apple save the concept by infusing a lot more interest into it.
Can they do it better?
Can they make it sexy?
Again, I, I was kind of asking early on, can Apple make VR sexy at least with their headset?
I mean, that's, that's what Apple's good at, right?
It's creating very, very sleek, sexy designs and, and products, tech products that, you know, make things cool.
You know, like people would want to buy these and have these in their living rooms.
Even if they don't really use them that often, just because it's the first Apple headset.
Like, I don't know.
So, so what do you think, Jeff?
Like you, you think they, that Apple can actually infuse more life and direction into the metaverse?
Well, the, the most important thing about new technology is the story and the use case.
Like when it, when, when we have new technology, I think where Apple has succeeded is that they don't release something just because of the technology.
They waited, I guess, like, I don't know.
Maybe it felt like, it felt like almost a decade before they put out a pad type device, a tablet.
And when they came out with the iPad, people were like, skeptical.
They were like, they, they were like, this is just a bigger iPhone.
What's the use case?
And Apple succeeded in selling the differentiation.
And what was, what was essentially like a different experience for the user?
Because I mean, and there, there, there is some ability for people.
There, there is like people like their products and will buy them to try them.
And, and, and there is like some certainty that they found a use case after the fact.
But I think, I think in most cases, when, you know, when they came out with the iPhone specifically, like you talk about like, like what was on, what was currently available when that came out?
It was revolutionary.
Like there was no phone that looked anything like it that had anything like the capabilities.
And so, I mean, with the app store, it was, it blew it out of the water.
Like that was the third version of it when, when they finally got the app store.
But so, but, but that's, but that's the thing is that they'll, they have these different ways of entering the market.
And historically, when they enter the market, they wait longer than other companies to introduce new technology.
And they wait until there's a use case that they can sell.
And there has to be a story behind it.
The most important thing is the use case, the actual consumer understanding how they would use it.
And the, and the metaphors, the story, the, the reason why you would have this device and, and involve it in your life.
And without that, it really will flop.
And so I think that it's important to note that they must have some idea of how this can be used in a way that's either productivity or good for the experience of, of in the home.
Or good for the experience of entertainment or, or, or for social and, you know, connection, there's going to be something that's, that's going to be, you know, one of the main reasons why you would use this.
And I think that's going to be what they're going to pitch in, in terms of these worlds or whatever they're going to, they haven't succeeded on every new thing they've put out.
And they have historically been, I guess, not very great at putting out social media.
So, you know, they had one called ping a while back.
They, you know, they tried to do social media.
It hasn't worked, but that where they have succeeded is in entertainment and, you know, like Apple TV plus and with Apple music and, and Apple news.
And those sorts of things where they have subscription services based on those platforms that, that has worked out.
Also just, just the heart, their hardware, most of their hardware is very successful.
Their hardware and software integration is a big part of the supply chain.
Like what makes them kind of have more of a, of an advanced lead over the, over the competition, because they can integrate those things together and get synergies between having the ability to have full control over the hardware and the software.
And they can, you know, make those things work really well together.
Well, also it creates a better, a better user experience a lot of times.
Like it's just more seamless, you know, less like things like, uh, you don't have to worry about antivirus software as much because it's much harder, um, to, you know, to target.
And I don't know, like there's, yeah, there's a lot of also just, it's not just efficiencies or whatever.
It also creates a smoother, more seamless experience across devices and all that stuff.
But yeah, these are great points, Jeff.
Uh, Mo, you've had your hand up.
Go ahead.
Um, just, I was going to read it, reiterate what Jeff was saying.
I was reading an article recently that Apple will wait, even if they think someone else is going to beat them to the punch, they will wait until their product is, uh, perfect or in their eyes.
Uh, they don't care.
They'll just wait, wait it out until it's perfect.
Yeah.
I mean, it's nice to have infinite money and be able to do whatever you want and keep, keep updating and upgrading things at the cost of, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars.
Uh, they know that they'll take the time.
But it speaks, it does speak, like what Jeff is saying, though, it does speak to the fact that they're, they seem ready to put this product out.
Yeah.
And it's very exciting.
I hadn't seen this, uh, this whole situation up here with the code new worlds.
I actually think this is really interesting and it actually makes me a little bit more excited, um, because yeah, again, maybe they can do it better than Facebook.
You know, maybe they can create, uh, interest in virtual worlds and in the metaverse and, uh, in a way that nobody else has.
And this might, um, you know, new tools, new motivation, uh, all of this might create much more interest around the concept of the metaverse and more people starting to explore it and get more into it.
I mean, I wonder, you know, how things like these existing virtual worlds, like a Decentraland or Voxels, like how might they integrate into whatever Apple's building?
You know, is it just a matter of having new hardware to maybe experience, uh, experience those projects in a new way or like, uh, I don't know.
I mean, we do know also at the Apple app store has started to allow different NFT sales, which I think is interesting.
Yeah.
We caught those stories last week.
Uh, the, the, I think it was step in an axi infinity.
Yep.
And not in iOS.
I always look at Apple as like the, like, if we, if we use that ready player one example, like they're the behemoth, like, like entity that is like controlling the entire capital M metaverse.
Like I, I've never felt like they, they, they've had a web.
So they're evil.
So they're, I just don't.
So they're just evil is what you're saying.
No, I just don't see them having an open, you know, quote unquote open, uh, customizable experience.
I think that that's not what they, uh, what they put out, what they put out is a great, you know, product that has great UX UI that they control.
And I, I just don't see the end game when it comes to in ownable metaverse through Apple.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The question is, does it add any sort of on ramps at all though?
Right.
Or is it to your point, just sort of its own separate thing that doesn't really feed back into the decentralized world that much?
What if it ends up being like, okay, so here's, here's the, some of the, some of the rumors I've been hearing over the last like five years, like regarding this headset, that their plan is to put out an expensive, big bulky one.
To get the concept out, to get the idea out, to get people developing and to refine it down to a more wearable version.
That's more sleek, more fashionable, um, that can be taken outside the house, that sort of thing.
So like, I see this as like a first step, like the first iPad was bulky.
The first iPhone was thick, you know, and, and tiny, like they, they, they had, they had a refining process of making it thinner and thinner and thinner, making the screen or screen bigger.
They're saying, you know, iPad, the screen got closer and closer to the edges.
They got rid of the buttons.
These things were fine over time, but the first version that comes out, um, is, is typically kind of almost more of a proof of concept hardware technology.
Like it's going to be something that's more archival and like, it's cool to have because it was the first one.
But when you think of that product, you're not going to think of the first one.
You're going to think of the third, the fourth, the fifth one in terms of what it represents.
So that's kind of how I see them doing this is that getting the ball rolling with something that's a little bit more experimental and maybe not the full vision, but like shows where they're going is, is a smart way to go.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
I mean, I, I, I, I'm, I'm not going to be buying the first version.
Absolutely not.
Um, I, I do want to kind of like explore the, like the potential for what the metaverse can be again.
Cause I, I feel like part of the issue right now is that we kind of got trapped into a certain mode of thinking about the quote unquote metaverse in a way.
Uh, at least in like web three where it's like these, it's like got this forced scarcity on it.
Um, yeah, I think, uh, Micah was kind of doing a good job of explaining how the way that a lot of these existing virtual worlds work right now seems kind of in conflict with the whole idea of having like a, you know, an expansive, open, endless place that you can do anything.
Um, you know, it's like almost like they're recreating cities like IRL cities in a way where you've got, you know, scarce land that's very expensive, that's exclusive and you're building, you know, roads and buildings and cars and on this land.
And then it kind of feels like, again, like why, if, if, if, if you can create anything, if, if you've got this digital space that can be literally whatever you want it to be, why are like, why are we, why are we stuck in this sort of archaic idea of, of like, you know, scarce land and cities?
Because we're humans and our brains aren't as big as we wish they were.
That's fair.
That's actually a great point.
Like, like, why do we need cars in the metaverse?
I think Biggie pointed out very, like, very early on.
Uh, also, like, people give Yuga a ton of shit here for, like, expanding their, you know, ecosystem, if you will, with all of these releases.
And they're like, look, we have to make a game.
We told you guys we have to make a game and there's going to be items in this game.
Like, imagine jumping in the other side and all you have are the characters, like nothing else.
So what they're doing with these heavy metal releases and all of these others is filling their game up with, uh, with items and with assets.
And that, that goes against that scarcity mindset that you were talking about.
Yep.
Uh, we have Matt Hickson hopping up here.
What's up, Matt GM.
Hey, Jim.
Thanks for having me.
I was just going to say is in regards to the metaverse, you have to have something to do.
It's kind of like what Nifty Q is just saying.
Like, we went through this with Second Life, right?
We, we all ran around Second Life and we all were like, okay, this is cool.
And IBM built a place that like people tried, but if you are trying to replace something, you can get better with zoom or, you know, Google meet right now, as far as a business application, it's not going to work running around, um, you know, Decentraland just hanging out is boring after a minute.
Like even when you go to a party and you're hitting the key over and over again to do some weird dance move, cause you don't want to look like a dork just standing there.
It's kind of stupid after a minute, right?
So you have to have something to do, which is why you see things like Roblox, Minecraft, Fortnite, like all these things take off, which is why other side is, or, or, you know, they're trying to build that into a game that can be played at massive scale.
That's interesting. And until they figure that other parts out, I think that's why Apple goes after mixed reality because Zuckerberg's not wrong in the fact that he was trying to perfect facial, you know, features and facial gestures and all these things.
But that is so far out there is where he was dumping tons of money, but you, nobody wants to just look at a block face with nothing to do.
So anyway, it's just my two cents. We've seen this in second life before fail. So you got to have something to do.
What was the failure in second life specific? Oh, just not having enough, just nothing to do. I mean, you know, my, my favorite book in all of history is ready player one. If you haven't read the book, read the book, the movie's stupid.
The book is fantastic. It lays out what the potential of the metaverse is, but again, there were things to do there. There were communities, there were actually interactive experiences there. We're just not there yet. Nobody's figured it out.
Why? Why is the movie stupid? Because the movie should have been a trilogy. The book was about three times as deep and they crammed it into one movie.
Got it. Love it. All right. Appreciate those thoughts. And I generally agree with all of them, although I as much as the movie may not be as good as a book, I actually thought it was pretty fun.
But anyway, uh, I, I do appreciate that take and I, you know, I probably would have liked the trilogy even more. Could have gotten even deeper into it. Um, yeah, it's, uh, you need the stickiness.
You need the, the reasons for people to keep coming back. And, um, obviously that's been one of the biggest issues and other side is working to, to break that.
And so it's like right now, I like you're talking about meta and what Zuckerberg was doing again. I, I want to address that quickly. I, my personal opinion is that he's just way ahead of, of the curve on this and that they're going to keep investing in what they've been doing, maybe in a much more low key, uh, less public way.
And that they're going to be ahead of a lot of people on the quote unquote metaverse. And that a lot of the investment that they've made will help them, uh, continue to be ahead of the curve on all of that. When it, when it gets a little bit more relevant to everybody's, you know, uh, day to day lives and all that stuff.
So I think, you know, right now he's just in survival mode and making sure that he doesn't lose his job and that they can keep the lights on and all that stuff. But I think that, uh, the investment that, uh, was made by meta into the metaverse will still, uh, matter in the longterm. Um, but yeah, it seems like right now the, the major things to be watching and where a lot of the hope is coming from is going to be other side.
And then Apple, those, those seem like the two, the two things that are going to be the most interesting and could like make or break the future of where the metaverse is going to me right now. Other side obviously coming and they're kind of like coming from the polar opposites, I think, which is even more interesting. Right. Cause it might show you the, the bifurcated nature of the quote unquote metaverse, uh, that being the decentralized crypto native other side versus the,
very centralized, very centralized, you know, walled garden, biggest company in the world, evil empire Apple. So yeah, it's, it's going to be actually really fascinating to see where and how these two different modes of, of operating and, and, you know, digital identity and, and, uh, the digital world kind of collide or, or don't. Um, I, I love what Matt was saying there about,
second life and using that, that anecdote, because we saw a little bit of this with crypto voxels and we still do today. Like voxels is nowhere near, I think as popular as it was when it first came out. And it kind of has fallen flat. And it really is because you couldn't do a lot there. You know, like it, it, it became a medium for sharing art in the same way, like on cyber kind of does that. Uh, but like where the line is blurred.
It's blurred between metaverse and gaming to me is, is interesting. Like whenever, whenever we talk about metaverse, okay, we want something to do. Well, does it, is, is that now just a game? And, you know, there's a reason both of those narratives kind of went away at the same time, the gaming and, uh, the metaverse narratives.
But like, I'm interested in what, what are those other things that we can do in the metaverse? That's not gaming, you know, like what, what does that look like? Cause it seems to be like, we come back to gaming every time.
I, so I, yeah, great points. I'm actually, you know, the more that we're talking about it, um, you know, Q and, and Mo and Jeff, you know, like on the shows a lot, we, we discuss like terminology and semantics of like what words are actually useful. What do they mean? Will, will we be using terms like NFT in the future? Will we be using terms like Dow in the future? Or are these just sort of like temporary things like, you know, that, that we use,
now as this technology is becoming, you know, interesting and developing early in its adoption curve, kind of like an MP3, something like that. You know, most people don't use that term anymore. I, I think actually both NFT and Dow are more specific to the trade and the actual, like have a very specific technology and, and like reason to be talking about them.
So I, I feel like both of those may stick around in some version. I think using the word metaverse is, is absolutely just dumb at this point. Like that, that's what I'm starting to feel is that like we've, I, maybe we've almost done a disservice, uh, in, in a way. And it's created a lot of confusion. And to me, like kind of what you're saying, Q, like,
like the metaverse is just our, our, it's, it's okay. I'm going to say again, my, my whole take, like capital M metaverse is literally just like the, our, our digital identities are like the digital world that we are moving into and like spending more and more time on our devices and like living in all of this.
It's, it's, it's everything together. Like this, this, uh, interoperable experience, digital experience that we're just like, like we're here on Twitter. This is all the metaverse. We're already in the metaverse whenever we're participating in any of the, you know, internet connected digital experiences that we see day to day already. And it's just like, we have, why do we need to talk about the metaverse at that point?
We're, we're, we're just talking about these different parts of, of, you know, technology that we're just, uh, spending more of our time in. I don't know. The, the whole word metaverse is sort of feeling stupider and stupider to me at this point. Um, because it doesn't make sense. Uh, again, unless you are just trying to say, Hey, this person is like, you know, wedding or this person is investing more time.
Into the digital world than they should have, like being like, Oh, they've been sucked into the metaverse. It's just like, okay, so their screen time is really high. Is that what you're saying? Um, I don't know. I feel like the word metaverse is super problematic at this point. Go ahead, Mo.
To sort of circle back to something Nifty Q was saying, like, why gaming? And I think it's because this is my opinion, but I think it's because it's one thing that people will come back and do over and over again. Um, so you have to not think about like, what else you can do in the metaverse necessarily, but like, what else will you keep coming back for in the metaverse?
And as of right now, I feel like gaming is just one of those things that people will spend hours every day doing if, if it's good enough. But like, what else would you do in a digital world over and over and over again?
Consuming content. Um, that's one thing, uh, interacting with friends, like hanging out, I think will definitely continue to be a thing, you know, activations, events will, will be things. Um, but beyond that, like you can't do much more right now. Right? Like you can't, you can't eat food in the metaverse.
You can't breathe in the metaverse. You can't swim, like actually do like, like it's, it's digital, right? It's, it's a limited, it's, it's a mediated experience. So media consuming different types of media is basically like predominantly what you're going to be able to do there. Um, gaming is obviously one of the most popular forms of media consumption that has ever existed.
And to your point, Mo, it's very addictive and, uh, can make, um, yeah, that, that, uh, what, what do you call it? Like the, the replayability, right? Like people come back for it over and over. It's not like a movie where maybe you want to watch it once or maybe you watch it once every couple of years. Like you can, if, if you got a sticky enough game, you can, uh, play that thing every day.
Actually also, sorry, I'm eating poke. Um, but actually gambling as well.
Yeah. I, I was going to say that, but to me that falls under gaming.
Yeah, maybe there's like another, so whenever the financial guys talk about, uh, like DeFi, sometimes they bring up the word, like, this is like an RPG to us. And I think that that's their form of gaming almost, uh, like being able to mess with these DeFi applications is in some form.
Um, I don't want to, I would not put it within gaming. I would put it within like, there's finance that you can do in the metaverse is essentially how I would do it. But it's, they, they, um, you're in the matrix queue. We're losing you.
Okay. And he's gone. These products. We, we, we, we lost the whole last 30 seconds of what you're saying there.
Wow.
We heard these products.
Yeah.
Q is on the road. There's no NFT live today. Hey, real, real quick re-ranch. Uh, if you don't know what this is, this is GM web three.
We do the show four days a week, Monday through Thursday here on Twitter, digging into all different awesome conversations and interviews and, uh, lots of different relevant topics and always covering the latest headlines, things happening around the space.
And then we typically jump straight out of here over to YouTube for some NFT live. Uh, and you know, that's where we keep things going and have a great time over there with some more friends, more headlines, more alpha.
But today Nifty Q is traveling. Uh, that's why he's got shitty reception. So there will not be any NFT live today, but that's okay. Cause it happens that at that same time, right after the show is the big only for space, which is pinned up top.
So, you know, it lets me go and enjoy the only day Twitter space while it's alive. And I'm, I'm okay with that today.
Um, yeah.
Also, we have Jeff Jag and, um, quantum and Jen teaching about, I'm going to say it again. I'm sorry. Ord knows.
I know it's totally cool. I wish I could go to the only space. Um, but, but like we have a lot planned for today. I'm going to be talking about cross mint, which is, um, a tool for, for doing credit card payments or cross chain payments.
So you could pay in a different cryptocurrency than the one you're actually buying the asset on.
And, um, those are, those are some cool technologies. And, um, and I'm also going to be talking about ERC 6551,
which was, um, it's new, it's a new ERC, uh, within the last couple of weeks was finalized and, um, was, uh, I think created or co-created by one of the other co-creators of the ERC 721 token standard.
Are you talking about ERC 6551? Is that what you're talking about?
Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. You know what? All right. Let's hit on that real quick in just a moment because I actually have an article pulled up about that.
And I, at some point wanted to kind of talk about it from, uh, block works.
Yeah, that is, that is the one I got pulled up. Uh, sorry, cool. We can, that's a nice segue. We can hit on that in just a moment.
Um, but before we do, you know, we kind of wind up the, this whole metaverse conversation. Um, any big, bold predictions that y'all have?
I mean, I, again, I'm saying, I think that I think other side and Apple are going to be the two biggest, most influential parts of the quote unquote
metaverse for the foreseeable future, maybe for the next year or two, uh, just based on how things are ramping up right now.
And it's going to be a very interesting sort of battle or, you know, uh, contest or I don't know, opportunity to look at decentralized versus centralized, uh, developments in the quote unquote metaverse.
I think that the term metaverse is problematic and should go away at this point. I think it's horrible.
It doesn't really help you understand anything and creates more confusion, uh, really in my opinion.
Um, and I think that a lot of the existing virtual worlds that we call metaverses, like these OG decentralized projects,
like sandbox and voxels and decentral and especially maybe somnium space, some of these, I think we are probably going to see some of those going away in the next year.
Um, I don't know that that's my thought. Like I'm sure one or two of them will stick it out.
Like these OG ones, they'll be able to like figure out how do they enter integrate or interoperate with like Apple or something else like that.
So then they, they become more interesting and relevant again, and they get some more traffic.
They have a reason to exist. But right now I feel like other than the sort of provenance, um, I, I don't, I don't know why some of these exist.
Um, so those are some of my thoughts. Go ahead.
Yeah. I think out of those three that you mentioned, uh, voxels probably has the least chance is as much as it pains to say, say it right.
Like I'm, I own voxel land. I appreciate their provenance. I just think that they are probably one, the smallest team of those three groups.
Uh, and I just think, you know, maybe it will exist, but, but won't continue in, in any like sort of major development.
I'm still bullish on the sandbox. I think there will be like, uh, in the same way we see exchange listings pumping tokens.
I think there will be like in the other side, there will be projects that pump off being, uh, integrated into the other side.
So you'll say like, Oh, cool. Cats, uh, just announced that they're going to be able to be interoperable, uh, in the other side.
And you'll see that collection, uh, you know, kind of, uh, pumping value and not, not to bring it back to financial, uh, you know, pieces there.
But I think that there will be that phenomenon for the other side.
We just saw them release that info saying that there's going to be like what 12 other projects, uh, that are going to be, uh, initially involved.
So I don't even know if I saw that, if you're, if you can find it and pin it, maybe I missed that, uh, announcement, but, but yeah.
Any other thoughts or predictions, big bullet predictions from Mo or Jeff on metaverse next, next one to two years.
You want to go first, Mo?
No, you go.
Bold predictions. Um, metaverse won't be like, obviously that's not a bold prediction. I agree with you. The word is ridiculous. The same thing with NFT. It's going, it's going away. Like I'm, I'm, I love the technology, but we don't talk about the technology. We talk about the story. We talk about the use case.
And I think that's the most important thing to focus on. If we focus on the words and the acronyms, um, it, it shuts people off and it doesn't, it doesn't open them up to the possibilities. Um, so I like more descriptive.
I like more storytelling in, in the way that we go about these things. And so like, that, that's a, that, for me, that's a, something that I'm, I'm more likely to call it, you know, digital collectibles now and digital assets and, um, and just artwork and digital artwork and ownable digital artwork.
Those crypto art, those, those terms do more to me to explain what it is than NFT. And, and like, I just, I just don't like, I don't like the branding and, and I don't like the way that they're describing it. So metaverse, I think has to, has to figure out a way to be, and like, you know, we heard digital assets and digital collectibles from Reddit.
Like that was where that major meta came from. And if, if we have to wait for a company with, with some bucks behind it to come up with a marketing term that we can all kind of rally behind, I'm for that because I don't necessarily think that the devs really wanted their little terms that, that they created to describe the technology to become the way that we market the stuff. Like it's, there's two separate things. Um, so like, you know, um, that, that, that's for meta, but metaverse, like, I, I get what you're saying.
And I, I agree with the idea. Obviously we're kind of saying the same thing, but like, to me, metaverse is just a, is just a weird futuristic concept. It's not even a specific technology. You know, it's, it's like, that's the problem is that it's too vague. It doesn't mean any metaphor doesn't land. And so if we find a way to interact with this and, you know, um, in a way that like, let's wait to see what Apple calls it and see if that catches on.
And if people like the way they describe it, because I think that'll go a long way towards making that conversation happen. And in terms of like what the metaverse can be, I think it's going to be specific, more like smaller use cases and more intuitive and more useful use cases. I don't think that at first it'll be something where we're going to, we're going to come in with web three and be like, this is our new party place. Like, I don't think the way that we think about it is going to be the way the majority of people think about it.
Like, I think they're going to use it in context of, um, you know, they're like using them, like, like in the world with AR, they'll be using it in maps, right? They'll be using it to, to get directions, to look around, um, and see, instead of having a screen down in the corner, they'll see the directions on their windshield. Like that's augmented reality. Like those.
I think it, I think on that point, it's, it's like literally just layering what's currently in our phones on top of our worlds in a more immersive way. Right. It just, it like, like all of the practical everyday things that you do with your phone, plus a few new ones is basically what we're going to be doing with AR. It's just going to be way more immersive and intuitive and, and, and not stuck in, in a little device that we have to hold on our, on us and stare at all the time.
Um, my predictions real quick. If you guys want to hear it. Yeah, of course. Apple's going to win.
Um, and I, I don't know, I don't know how, I don't know how bold that one is, but, but yeah, it's probably true. Yeah. And also, um, until somebody creates a game, that's either super addictive or, um, some sort of application that makes our, our lives extremely easy. Nobody's going to care about the metaverse.
Yeah. It's got to have a real use case that people that resonates with people. All right. We got web three guy and Matt Hickson back up here. Let's go with three guy. If you got any bold predictions you want to add, go ahead.
Yeah. Cheers. Thanks, man. Uh, I think the only thing I would disagree on is that I wouldn't be so personally, I wouldn't be so bullish on UK lamps or other side, simply because I've seen projects of twice.
So three times the scale fail in having to implement anything meaningful in the online investment gaming world. Uh, you know, that includes sandbox as well as the central land and a whole bunch of others, you know, there've been projects in the blockchain space, which had $4 billion of liquid capital.
And they didn't manage to remain relevant between two successive bull markets. I'm sure as hell don't think something like you've allowed another side is going to be able to compete in any meaningful way against the likes of fortnight creative or Roblox.
So I'm, I'm bullish on all of the traditional web two giants and web two games that know how to make great games and immersive experiences.
I'm not bullish on a web three project trying to compete against that with no previous track record of ever, ever having delivering anything.
Right. But you say, okay, so this is an interesting, okay. I like this because I think it's a, it's a big, it is a big, bold prediction.
And I think this is a good conversation because I also had something pulled up here that I wanted to hit on briefly about Yuga, but like I, you, you say that they have no track record.
Um, and, and I know what you mean, like it's, it's a new company. They haven't been a big game publisher with a bunch of like famous game IP, but they have hired top quality talent from the biggest gaming publishers in the world to bring that track record.
No, that's a great point. But here's my, here's a problem. These are top, uh, named individuals from the traditional web two gaming space.
You are going to expect them to understand the web three culture and all the rest of it. Probably not. And I mean, I come from the gaming space.
We see big hires all the time and they fail all the time. You're adding a whole bunch more huddles into it now.
You know, but you're, but you're saying that, that, uh, that somebody who was the CTO of Activision Blizzard can't understand web three.
You're saying that they're not smart enough to figure it out.
Nope. I would say two things. They are for the majority of his career, every business model he's worked on has been fundamentally diametrically opposed to everything web three is.
So you're taking someone like that and throwing him into your fish out of water. It'll take him a long time to get around to this, uh, a one big hire, two big hires, three big hires. Don't change anything.
You know? And this is the thing I think we have to understand. It's still a startup space.
It's the probability of success is the minuscule, you know? It's all of these things.
Gary, you, okay. So again, I agree with some of your precepts here, but like, let me ask you this. Do you, do you, do you not think that out of all of the startups, the thousands and thousands, tens of thousands of web three crypto native startups, that there's going to be a couple super big successful companies of the future that, that actually come out of all this?
Uh, yes, absolutely. But I don't see them, uh, being on anyone's radar at the moment. Certainly not Google labs. It had, I mean, I'll give you an example.
It started off with not being anything and then being a web three brand and IP. And then folks saying, you're going to build a game. Are you going to be a gaming company for 12 months?
Actively deny it. And then after a $400 million or $450 million VC fundraise last year, suddenly, oh, we're coming out with a metaverse in a game. Two questions.
You denied having, uh, pushed the gaming narrative for 12 months and then you needed VC funding.
But why does that, why does that matter? Who cares?
It's a part of the problem, right? If you didn't have a product market fit before, that means you don't have a viable business model. Now you have to go and build something.
But how, but yeah, the other piece to this is that both of the founders are like very like on the record gamers for like at their core.
But also you say, yeah, there's a lot of, yeah, there's just a lot of points like, like to say like, oh, sandbox into central land who are clearly like underperformers, uh, when it comes to like what their teams have achieved and putting out like any successful product compared to Google labs is like, it's, it's ridiculous. It's like saying like, oh, voxels wasn't successful. So you go labs can't be successful.
Well, yeah. And, and on that point, well, well, cause what you're saying to me is what you just said about them not having a product market fit.
You, you go labs has dominant, has literally been responsible for almost 50% of all NFT volume for like the last year, year and a half. How, how did they, how have they not found a product market fit so far?
That's, I mean, trading volumes are in a bull market is, is nothing special. I've seen shit coins from previous years twice as much.
The last, the last year and a half, the last year and a half hasn't been a bull market.
Uh, I mean, previously, so during yoga labs, life cycle, uh, and Vodapes life cycle, it's been one raging bull market. That's not a product market fit. That's just a by-product of a raging bull market.
Again, I'll say it again. The last year and a half hasn't been a bull market. They've been dominating and continuing to succeed and doing half the volume of all NFT sales. And it hasn't been a bull market.
Sure. It's still the largest player in the space. You're going to dominate the space with trading volumes.
So isn't that a product market fit? Obviously a product market fit.
No. Trading volumes are not a product market fit. A product market fit is a service or a good that you'll find your market that needs it or wants it or you're solving a problem. None of these things do at the moment.
I think they, there was a $5 million, uh, like total like revenue that they pulled in from Dookie Dash. They had like several hardcore gamers that played the game, which is already hard in itself.
Like new, new, new, new gaming products have to pay these streamers to usually play their games. And so I like the Dookie Dash was a, which is in itself like a mobile game. Like it wasn't by any means.
Didn't people that owned the Yuga assets though pay those gamers instead of like the gaming company?
No, that, no, that, that, uh, key itself.
There was both.
There was both.
Yeah. That, that happened sequentially, but the, the one was owned by the gamer himself. And so he actually participated and was able to one, show the ideas of web three native games actually being created. Like you, I, I don't know.
I can go in a thousand directions with this, but like $5 million was spent on this game.
That's a great point.
But it was also just like a re-skinned, a re-skinned game from like the nineties or something.
But, but that's not the point really, because even if it is, the, the point is that the most successful, uh, activation in all of web three gaming, uh, I mean, again, you can look at Axie Infinity and they, they obviously had a moment and did something that was very successful with the play to earn situation.
But it's just like a one-off activation of an arcade based, you know, uh, like limited event game or something like this. There's been nothing else that has been nearly as successful in all of web three gaming that I can think of other than Dookie Dash.
Like, like you get, again, like Nifty Q is talking about it, but like you can look at that a million different ways and it's hard to say that as, as a, like a test of their first little game, like a mini game that they created, that it wasn't successful.
And, and, and that's like, that's revenue that went to the team.
So it's, it's not trading volume.
It's not anything like that.
It's, it's revenue that they pulled in via token.
That's native web three.
Like all of these things are, I'm not going to sit up here and stand for this, but like, it's, it's, it's ridiculous, dude.
It's like, Oh, Voxels didn't, Voxels didn't, uh, wasn't successful at this.
Well, Voxels had a team of like three people.
And just because they, they hired the CTO of Blizzard does not mean that Garg is not there.
And a lot of people that were on the original team aren't there.
I would have loved to have Gordon.
Yeah.
The, the, the, the new CEO is not responsible for web three culture.
He's responsible for bringing in the things that they don't have, which is the experience with scaling global brands and, and like publishing games and all that type of stuff.
And like large scale economies, gaming economies and all this different stuff that like, like they have the culture.
They don't need that.
They, they need the other business web to business expertise.
That's what they bring.
But anyway, let me throw some more info in here.
Cause there's a tweet that I pinned early on in the episode that I wanted to hit that I think is relevant to this conversation.
So maybe it'll add some more context.
Uh, this is a great combo by the way, but, uh, here we go.
How does you go labs do it?
They raised $450 million right before the start of the bear market at a $4 billion valuation.
They offset ape coin to an independent body to counteract an impending SEC investigation.
They pushed a release date of the other side meta to Q3 2023, which coincides with the release of the Apple VR, AR headset and Apple verse hired the president of Activision right before they got sold to Microsoft for $69 billion.
who are now building out their own gaming metaverse shift company focused to web three gaming and play to earn before the major companies like take two and GTA decided to change their models.
You can have always stayed 10 steps ahead of the curve.
At this point, I'm convinced they will become a hundred billion dollar company within the next two to three years as the metaverse agenda pushes forward with board at the center.
No, uh, are we directly looking at the next super company?
So this is a, a big, bold prediction on the opposite side of, of what you're saying.
Uh, you know, um, I, I'm sure Marty has some interesting thoughts to see, but let's get a response from web three guy.
Well, Matt was raising his hand as well, but yeah.
Yeah.
Matt, Matt can jump in whenever.
Sure.
I'll just say something very quick.
And that is that, you know, they were able to do all of this specifically because they had a bunch of big VCs backing them and who aided them through this, right?
When you pour $400 million into something, you finance a project like this, you will give it everything, your network, your connections, your advice, your advisors, all of it.
And that's what you're seeing.
Um, my biggest concern is this.
I've seen projects 10 times the size fail within a four year span.
I'm not going to just, you know, give this anything until I see something materialized.
I don't know.
I'll give you one name EOS.
They rate for $4 billion.
Dude, they're still sitting on it.
Why are they doing it?
Okay.
I was part of the EOS Genesis mint or sale.
Like, Brendan Bloomer is one of the biggest clowns of all time.
Like, they're different teams.
This is like saying, oh, Theranos got a whole bunch of Rays.
But dude, $4 billion?
$4 billion?
Come on, man.
It was a joke.
The team was a joke.
The guys were left by the time that everything happened.
Can I ask this?
What did EOS, besides raising money, what did they actually execute on?
Because you can look at the track record of what BoardApe have done since their initial mint
and see a track record of extremely high quality, successful execution.
Nothing.
Nothing.
The EOS blockchain foundation or whatever the community is that's risen up against the founders
of this thing are going to court against the EOS founders.
Like, this is such a ridiculous comparison.
Like, they tried Voice, a social media app.
They tried...
I don't...
Go ahead.
Speaking of, like, ridiculous comparisons, though, there's not that many $100 billion companies
out there in the world.
Like, to put it into perspective, I think Porsche is under that, so...
Yeah, but the point, like, yes, it is a long shot.
But I think just like the internet dot com bubble, when, you know, 99% of all these companies
that raised a shit ton of money, they all went to zero.
But there are a handful that survived.
I mean, to me, if I'm looking for, like, what are the ones that are on track to actually
survive and become big companies that transcend, like, Yuga Labs is absolutely it.
And I could be wrong.
Of course, we could all be wrong.
We're just up here speculating and talking shit right now.
But they have been 10 steps ahead on a lot of things.
They have a track record of execution.
Unlike anything else, they have a legit community.
Like, you know, you can say they haven't created anything yet, but, like, I would argue very
differently.
I think they've got some of the biggest IP, like, the biggest IP that's been created out
of Web3, like, crypto-native IP.
They've got, you know, a top 40 token already.
They've got a lot of different digital assets, a whole giant ecosystem.
They now own CryptoPunks and several other key IP.
Like, to say that they haven't created or don't have any sort of assets or products, I think,
is...
I don't know.
I just don't really know what you mean by that.
And then other side, you could say that they don't have that yet, but they've already done
multiple different trips or live demos with the technology that have been super successful
and the Dookie Dash game.
I saw more people in five minutes in the other side, first trip and second trip, than I have
probably seen in all of my time in the Central End and boxers combined.
How do you know they were real people?
Because you could literally hear them talking to you as you walked around and it drove you
fucking crazy.
No, it was, I think it was like, I think it was like 7,000 to 8,000 people.
Hold on, I want to hear what Marty has to say.
Marty.
All right, let's get Marty in here first and then we'll get to Web3 yet.
Whoa, whoa.
You guys can probably read my mind here and I'm hoping I can finish this thought.
Web3 does not know that he is up against them.
You know, Max is here, bro.
He's fighting a fight that cannot be won, man.
The Kool-Aid has been drunk by these guys up here, okay?
That doesn't even matter.
Dude, you're in the matrix, Marty.
I can't.
I can't hear you, man.
No, we don't know what you're saying.
Anyways.
I can hear him.
I can hear him.
All right, Moe, do you want to paraphrase?
Because I'm having a difficult time.
He's in the matrix.
He says you guys are drinking Kool-Aid and the IP sucks.
I think that's what he's saying.
That's the gist of it.
Cool, cool, cool.
Typical Marty.
Marty, you're in the matrix, my guy.
Maybe hop out and hop back in.
Did you say fold the napkins?
Fold the napkins.
I don't know.
I have no idea what he's saying.
Hop out and hop back in and maybe we can get a better connection because, yeah, we're having a difficult time with you.
But I want to hear all of your FUD, Marty.
Please, please come back.
All right, went through, guy.
Did you have anything else you wanted to add in before we jump over to this next story about ERC-6551?
Yes, please.
Thanks for giving me the floor once more.
Just a couple of points.
I was using the EOS example not in terms of a project that had built or delivered anything, purely in terms of financing, right?
Something with 10 times the capital still was not able to remain relevant for a whole bunch of other issues, idiots and stupid founders or whatever you want to call it.
It's just a point I wanted to make that there are projects of that size that still did not maintain relevancy during bull markets or between bull markets.
That was just one of the biggest points.
And the other issue is this is more of a personal observation.
I have never really seen a large-scale, meaningful project in the Web3 space come off the back of huge VC funding.
They are value-obstructive mechanisms.
They invest, they take liquidity, and they F off, and they come back in the next bull cycle.
My issue here, second fold, is if Yuga Labs and other side needed $400 million of VC funding to remain relevant and push out some of these contents,
I think they've already sold their soul to the devil.
They've sold most of the things out here.
It just explains to me that there wasn't a viable business model here to begin with, which is why you needed that funding to go and do something.
It just happened to be gaming, and now you're up against the biggest things in the gaming space.
Now, what happens if this game doesn't work?
Do you think that'll be the end of Yuga Labs and other side?
Because they're putting everything they have into this, and competing in huge games like this is no joke.
Yeah, it's a great question because there is a lot riding on other side being successful.
And I think that this goes, the way that I look at it, and I guess you could call me a maxi, but I don't think I am at all.
I think I've been very invested in watching the space and watching what they do, and so I'm bullish on them in general.
But the way that I see it is with the amount of resources, interest, support, community, and the actual tech of what they've been building,
I see it as them having to succeed in a good way, and that I think that they're probably going to do what Apple does with this.
And that's take their time, continue taking their time, push things off until they get a product right.
I don't think they're rushing out of the gate with a premature product.
I don't think that they're trying to just get sales real quickly, so rushing to market with something that's going to be shoddy.
I think that they are moving very, very strategically, very methodically to create something meaningful and valuable.
And they've shown that, again, over and over with the way that they've been moving.
And again, that's been my personal experience, and I think where you say, oh, well, it's do or die for them.
If they know that internally, if they're so invested in this, then they're going to do absolutely everything that they can to make it succeed.
And again, nobody is going to be more resourced than they are.
So another thing that I'll add on that, on the VC point, I am no simp for VCs.
I shit on VCs constantly because, to your point, I think they're mostly extractive, shitty people who don't give a fuck about the community,
the sustainability of Web3, anything that we're doing here.
All that matters is getting their money and riding the hype train and all that stuff.
The other side of that is that VCs are people, too.
Well, it's not just people.
It's like to actually support and develop the future of technology in these companies, they're kind of like a necessary evil in a way.
And what I mean is how many of the different apps or tech products that you use in your day-to-day life have VC money behind them?
How many of them relied on VCs of some kind to get up and running and get resourced to build?
All of the funds that are over $100 billion.
Yeah.
So, yes, we can sit here and say VCs suck for a lot of different reasons,
but also aren't we kind of ignoring the fact that they have enabled us to become the most advanced society on the planet in many ways
or have the biggest tech companies in the world all in our country?
Isn't that also part of VCs is that they've enabled all of that or made that happen?
Marty, I see you, dude.
Just real quick, the other fallacy here is that they have to compete against the largest Web2 games.
What's happened here is in game models, what essentially happens is you move from model to model over the course of time.
So everybody remembers buying $60 games that you plug in your console, and that was the model for a long time.
And then you moved to free-to-play, and then you moved to subscription-based.
And every time it switched to a different model, the incumbents or the people that were there were essentially saying,
that's not going to work.
You know, you can't have a game be free.
And you can't charge a subscription to play a game.
Every single time the model changed, the people that were already entrenched said no and said that wouldn't work.
And so what you're seeing now is a fundamental switch with Yuga being a native, from the ground up, Web3 company
with native digital assets that are owned by the community.
And you have an ability to then not have to compete in the same ways that these Web2 games have to compete.
So I think that that's a very important understanding is that they don't need a million gamers for the other side to be successful.
Well, and just to add to that, the other interesting part of that post up top about GTA and other companies starting to update their own models
or move towards more Web3 concepts and things like tokenomics and ownership,
it's almost like they understand that they're going to have to compete in this new world, if anything else.
So I don't know, like, look, yes, it's very difficult to do what the biggest game publishers in the world do.
But I actually think NiftyQ, you're making a good point that, like, they're not directly competing.
Go ahead, Marty.
Oh, I didn't know if my internet came back on or not.
Your connection's actually, your connection's better.
Maxi rant.
Got two Maxis up here ranting.
You guys don't want my foot.
I hear you.
I agree with Web3 100% on everything.
I love this motherfucker.
I haven't even met him before, but I love him.
And you know what?
Here, four points.
IP, that ended up on a box of M&Ms that you didn't buy, okay?
Number two, other side, dude playing the game Mongrel.
Bro.
Let me see.
Do you got any tweets where Mongrel's like, I can't wait for the next upcoming Yuga game?
I bet he don't got no tweets on the next game at all.
He made his money and left.
Speaking of making your money and left, that's my boy Gordon, okay?
Gordon left, you guys.
He totally, Web3 native.
They just turned this over and sold it out to everybody but Garga, dude.
There ain't nobody even fucking left from the company, you know?
They're native.
They just like recycled the whole shit.
I mean, come on.
So it's all good.
But yeah, I'm with Web3 100%.
Flash them hundies.
Web3 guy could have came into the room and said,
Yuga sucks and left, and Marty would be like his biggest fan.
Yeah.
Fuck yeah.
Oh, my God.
Marty's back.
Woo!
Oh, man.
All right.
Yeah.
You're right.
You know what?
The whole future of everything that they're doing rests upon a box of M&Ms.
That's a great point there.
Brilliant analysis coming in here.
All right.
You know what?
Great combo.
We're going to keep it going, though, with another couple headlines before we wrap up
here in a couple minutes.
ERC6551.
We do still have Jeff Jagg here, so I'm excited to see what he thinks about this.
Apparently, this is a new token standard, ERC6551, that turns any NFT into a Web3 wallet.
So I guess it's like nested NFTs now.
Any NFT can have other NFTs nested in it.
Is that what's going on?
Let's learn more.
Cookie, cloud, web, spam, they're all expressions connecting internet phenomena to related experiences.
Part of the process of developing technology is deciding on the vocabulary that connects
human understanding to the purpose of new mechanisms.
You know what?
That's a great way to sum up what we've been talking about.
No, I'm just reading an article, man.
Give me a sec.
But this is a great way of summing up what we've been saying about the problem with the
word metaverse.
It doesn't necessarily connect human understanding at all to the purpose of a new mechanism.
So anyway, sometimes it's difficult to encapsulate complex ideas in simple words.
The word wallet used to label a common Web3 account tool like MetaMask is often considered
a bit of a misnomer.
It just doesn't quite fit what the tool is capable of doing.
Like a Web3 wallet, a real life wallet can hold identity information, currencies, and maybe
a photo or two.
But it doesn't have an address or keys.
It doesn't connect a user to activities or act as a passport to places or events.
And it generally doesn't store hundreds of collectibles or works of art.
Now, to make things even a little more complicated, the ERC-6551 protocol introduces token-bound
accounts, enabling any individual NFT to be a quote-unquote wallet, for lack of a better term.
On a recent episode of The Other Side podcast, Benny Zhang, the co-founder of Future Primitive
and Historic CryptoKitties NFT collection, spoke with host Chase Chapman about the innovation.
The idea, Zhang says, sprang from a project he created with renowned streetwear designer
Jeff Staple called Sapiens.
The two decided to team up and reimagine the future of storytelling, streetwear, and fashion
through profile pictures, or PFPs.
You might have heard of those.
Zhang questioned whether PFPs should remain static and isolated.
Like, why are they wearing the same clothes forever, he asked.
What if we launched a PFP that looks super cool and you could change your outfits 10 times
a day, 20 times a day?
That's what we all want to do.
I want to change clothes 20 times a day.
I want to update my Twitter profile 20 times a day.
Oh, God.
Because that is a natural expression of who you are.
That's not a natural expression for me.
But anyway, the aha moment.
Keeping things on chain adds complexities that really hinder what you can do with an NFT,
said Zhang, with gas fees being the most significant barrier.
This problem led to an aha moment for the two creators.
Attending a hackathon in San Francisco, Zhang says the white bulb popped.
What if NFTs had their own wallets?
And then if they have their own wallets, then they can talk to each other without MetaMask.
If they had their own wallets, they could own a digital hoodie or a digital t-shirt to accompany
a PFP, for example.
This sounds very much like what Doodles 2 is trying to do, I think.
I don't know.
But anyway, this sparked the creation.
What they're trying to doodle?
You know what they're trying to do, do, doodle.
Anyway, this sparked the creation of ERC-6551, which gives every NFT its own smart contract
account or wallet, Zhang says.
All the NFTs right now on Ethereum mainnet, from CryptoKitties all the way to the latest
NFT project, they have their own account address.
So they can actually hold any other token.
Token-bound accounts allow NFTs to have two important properties, according to Zhang.
One is the ability to own assets.
It could hold onto ETH.
It could hold USDC.
It could hold Pepe coins.
It could hold other NFTs.
The second property of token-bound accounts is the ability for NFTs to participate in social
governance, he says.
So now that an NFT has its own account address, it could be a signer on a multi-sig.
It could have its own ENS subdomain.
It could participate in voting on proposals.
It's like giving an NFT a passport, he says, allowing users access to a range of functions,
including bank accounts and voting.
Taking things a step further, Zhang adds, if we add AI in here, it could have a personality,
it could be tweeting, and it could also execute on-chain actions.
This is a natural progression, Zhang says, for us to interact with each other, for us to
interface on the internet.
Okay.
I want to hear what everybody thinks about this.
I have to say my immediate thought about this is I've heard of nesting different NFTs and
things like that, but I had not thought about actually infusing personality and governance
traits and shit and AI into an NFT.
Like, that's wild to think it, like, you could literally have, like, I know we've seen, there's
been a few projects that were like, hey, this is an AI brain of some kind.
This NFT has some kind of, like, AI tied to it.
But I hadn't really thought about what if you had a PFP or a character that was basically,
like, living, like, actually living on chain that was carrying out different actions and
had its own assets and shit like that.
Like, that's a fucking, that's a wild, that's a wild concept.
Let's go ladies first and then we'll get what we got.
But go ahead, Mo.
Yeah.
So I was going to say I met Jeff Staple in Indianapolis and he gave me a signed bag and
he's super awesome.
So there's that.
But to think that, like, how are we training the AI?
Is it based off of our own personalities?
Because I have a feeling a bunch of AI trained by DGENs is a very bad idea.
It's, yeah, this is, this is actually the origin story of the end of humanity right here.
This is it.
Everybody started to speculate about how AI could, could essentially bring about the end
of all humanity.
I think it's, it's DGENs hanging out on Twitter spaces and fusing it and putting them money
to their wallets.
Yeah.
Putting, putting, yeah, putting, or something.
Yes.
And then putting AI into their, their crypto dick butts that basically are trying to, you
know, find a way to destroy the world.
And inevitably the crypto dick butts do.
Attack of the crypto dick butts.
Oh my God.
Yeah.
All right.
I would almost want to see that movie.
Web3 guy, go ahead.
Hey, thanks.
I think naturally one of the biggest implications of this is going to be once again for the gaming
space, right?
Imagine this.
Your in-game character, your avatar in an MMORPG or any online sphere has its own name,
name, a tag, clothes, accessories, items, HP, gold, all the rest of it, right?
And they're all attached to the specific NFT that represents that character.
When you leave the game or sell, essentially all of the accomplishments go with that NFT.
The interesting thing is this standard has actually been around and battled around with
for, for a number of years, but I think most of that stuff happened on other chains.
So there are a number of chains that were competing with Ethereum in the previous bull cycle.
I think NIO was one specific one that had a whole bunch of these really cool smart contract
standards built on it.
It's just that the chain never took off.
It's practically dead now.
But there was one that stood out to me specifically similar to this.
It was like, the name skips me.
I think it's the Phantasma NFT standard.
They had a whole bunch of things just like this.
My only concern is I'd hate to try and imagine what the gas fees would be like for something
like this because you are interacting with several smart contract calls at the end of
the day.
And it's not just one interaction that you're doing with this.
So I think that might be a really big issue, but it is pretty cool, though.
I'd like to see where this goes.
Well, and so that to me just begs the question, can this token standard operate on layer twos
like Polygon?
Because if so, then it solves a lot of that problem.
But I think you're absolutely right.
Like this is actually a nice overlap into gaming because, yeah, you have your character
you have and then you invest a bunch of time into developing that character.
Maybe not even just it's it's, you know, the heart, the not just the like items that
it's collected, its clothing and its weaponry or its potions and all the different items,
but maybe even its personality, its experience.
You know, you could literally not just like an XP points, but you could actually develop
its experience in unique, different ways.
And then to your point, it's it's an ownable asset, a single NFT that holds within it not
just metadata, but actually a bunch of other different tokens and contracts and things like
that that all kind of define this this singular character or, you know, this complex piece
of art or whatever it is.
So I think gaming at this absolutely makes sense there.
It's a great point.
Um, Jeff Jag has been very patient with his hand up.
My name is Jeff.
All right.
So basically where we're coming from on this is, uh, everyone's laughing.
Um, where we're coming from on this of, of, of talking about, uh, the, um, about the gas
costs is that's actually one of the impetuses for creating this technology.
When they talked to the, the creator, um, of the, the ERC, he said that like, we've thought
about all the use cases of NFTs and, and gas was one of the limiting factors of being able
to interact with tokens.
And so what this does with a token bound, so it's a token bound account and the two things
that it does are allow you to have one or more, they can't limit it to just one because
they realized that there was problems with that, you know, thought process and that would
lead down some bad paths.
So they said there's no limit to the amount of accounts that can be linked to a single
NFT.
So every NFT that's an ERC 721 can now have an account linked with it based on, um, it's
a token bound account.
So the account is bound to the token.
Now that's the first part of it.
The second part of it is the registry.
So there's a permissionless registry that keeps track of all the accounts that are linked to
with tokens and how the accounts are created is all transparent and it's deterministic.
So the security of this is, has been, you know, well thought out and, and, you know,
basically hammered out to be something that, uh, the owner of the NFT, the original NFT has
to sit in a wallet that's owned by one or many people.
So the original NFT could be in a Gnosis safe, or it could be in a ledger, or it could just
be in a regular MetaMask or Rainbow.
And so those, those assets then have a wallet that's associated with them.
So those NFTs that are within that wallet can then interact with the main token without
going and having a gas transaction because they're, they're, the, the, the conversation
of, uh, programming can basically bridge that without having to do an, without having to
do a transaction on ETH.
And so it's basically working within a single wallet.
Like, if you think about it, like if you had the ability to program your wallet for like
what order you wanted the NFTs in, I guess that could be a way that you could, I don't
know if that's even a thing.
I'm trying to put this in terms of like, uh, of something that's like a more common use
case, but I guess what, where I'm really going with this is the, um, the gas interactions
is something they thought about and wanted to make that easier for people so that if
you wanted to change the clothes of your PFP, you know, that would just be, you know, some
interface where you're interacting with a smart contract that's the, or the interacting
with the tokens based on, you know, something that's happening within it.
I, like, I, like, I have to say that I have a pretty good understanding of it, but not
a full comprehensive understanding.
So may I jump in for a quick sec?
Can I jump in?
I think you've, you've, you've explained it pretty well.
Can I just turn this into layman's terms?
Sure.
So think of an in-game character and you have an inventory where all of your items sit on
that character and it's backpacked and to equip something, he just reaches back and
equips it.
That's it.
It's no longer a gas transaction on chain.
It's something that's in the inventory of that NFT.
Okay.
That's pretty cool.
I've never actually done any in-depth reading into this, but that's kind of cool.
So imagine this.
I mean, I think you mentioned something like you can have Ethereum or some of these digital
tokens also attached to an NFT, right?
So that is a pretty cool intrinsic value, right?
That's a really cool intrinsic value.
You've got to attach to an NFT.
It's no longer just a speculative JPEG.
There's ETH or something else.
One of the cases that they said in the video, which is really cool.
I recommend everyone go watch that video or listen to the podcast that they quoted in
that article because one of the things he said was your Tesla could have its own ETH
account.
So your Tesla could have an NFT that has its own account.
You can have it have AI so that when you're not using your Tesla, I think you got a call
or you could have it could have your Tesla could go out and give rides to other people
and can make money on its own.
That money gets deposited into its ETH account.
Then it goes and charges itself on and spends its own ETH to charge itself, comes back to
your house so you can drive it when you need it.
And then essentially you have a money making asset that is going out and providing value
to other people.
And that's a use case of this technology.
That's fascinating.
Yeah.
Charged particles was one of the first to do this, actually, where you have DeFi mechanics
inside of an NFT.
I don't know where they're at today, but I know that they launched like two years ago.
I do the comparison, but this is this is a different sort of thing.
And then like it's not a nested account.
It's more of a it's it's more of a like instead of having nested NFTs that you kind of unlock
from one NFT to the other, which does require a gas transaction.
This would just be a wallet that has assets in it and and can and then can perform that
AI function.
Yeah, this is this is wild.
And also the like security implications of this.
I don't even know where to begin with.
Because you can imagine different types of vaults now, like building on top of this
as well.
And then are there like what are the security risks that come with that?
But but you can see what even mentioned about it.
Sorry, they even mentioned these accounts being based on the new 4337 account abstraction
so that they're not just regular wallets like you wouldn't be able to lose it.
It would be the kind of wallet you could sign in with your, you know, Facebook or Google
account or whatever they do with that account abstraction.
So, I mean, I get I get the thumbs down Nifty Q, but the technology is for onboarding and
it and it's it's for people who don't want to seed phrase and who don't want to remember
the the password and who who want to ease of use scenario.
If your NFT makes money for you, does that make it a security?
It makes it an employee.
No, it might make it an employee, right?
Yeah, an employee.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because what was the freelancer tax form?
So, but 10, forget it.
I don't know, but this is like we should we should start one of the first businesses that
only employs NFTs.
That would be absolutely ridiculous.
But I'm fascinated by like trying to figure out what is like the most secure implementation
of something like this.
And what I mean is like I want to see somebody create a scenario where you can have an infinitely
like recallable protected NFT that within that NFT is where you store all.
It's like that NFT becomes a replacement for your hardware wallet.
And so it's like you'd have to not only steal the NFT, but then hack into the NFTs wallet
as well.
But if you can recall that back to wherever you want it to, then even if it gets taken,
then you can just take it back and just move it.
The soulbound token?
Yeah, kind of like a soulbound.
But like you're that wallet that a soulbound token is in can also be hacked, right?
So that's why it's like if you have a recall function that's soulbound to you, like like
instead of having a specific wallet, find a way to soulbound soulbind a recall function
that's tied to an NFT.
I don't know.
This is where this stuff gets really interesting and fun.
And I think what's what's kind of cool is the the creator of it actually compared his
his token bound account TVA as the opposite of a soulbound token, because it's it's not
a token bound to a wallet.
It's a wallet bound to a token.
Yeah.
So just to throw that out there.
But also, I have to run and do that other space that I'm going to be doing on the smart
contract.
So we're going to start off with the BRC stuff, the Bitcoin things with Jen, but we'll
get around back to 6551 later in the discussion.
I have a meeting right now, but I'll be in there right after.
My name is Jeff.
Thank you, Jeff.
Appreciate you having me up on the stage.
Yeah.
And we're going to wrap this up here in just a moment.
There is no NFT live today, fam.
Normally we'd hop out of here straight over YouTube, but Nifty Q is not among us.
He is traveling.
Well, he is among us right now.
And so for that reason, I get to go check out what's going on in the ONI Day event here
in just a moment.
This has been a fascinating conversation.
Appreciate all of y'all for hanging out with us here on GM Web3.
Follow Web3.
Follow myself, Gifted, your humble Web3 Sherpa.
If you haven't already, we're going to go out with some tunes here in just a moment.
Web3 guy, appreciate all of your input and having a nice back and forth with us today.
Great combo.
Nifty Q, I see your hand raised.
Go ahead.
Yeah, man.
I echo those sentiments, man.
Like Web3 guy, you brought in a lot of really good takes and we appreciate that.
So, you know, definitely come back and have those often.
Hey, we got to the end of the episode.
You're saying, is the metaverse a pipe dream?
And you didn't give us an answer.
So I need a one line answer.
I think I think yes, because the way that we've been using the word metaverse and throwing
it around has been like a bunch of fucking high ass junkies that don't know what the
fuck we're saying.
So, yes, I would say the metaverse is a pipe dream because it's a fucking dumb word that
doesn't mean anything.
And we all just drank a bunch of Kool-Aid during COVID and hyped ourselves up and aped
into a bunch of speculative bullshit land.
And most of it's never going to be worth anything, probably.
And I think that we can find better ways to articulate these different aspects and technologies
of our digital world.
So anyway, that's my thought.
Let me know what you think in the comments and appreciate you all.
Well, we will be back tomorrow morning for the last GM Web 3 of the week.
It's hashtag Thirst Trap Thursday.
Don't miss it.
But right now we're going to go out with some music and yeah, no NFT live today.
But I hope you have a beautiful day.
I hope you all check out what's going on with Oni Force.
And this song is called Where Are You Now?
by Lost Frequencies and Callum Scott.
I hope you like it.
Hope you have a beautiful day.
All right.
Let's heck and go.
You're just like my favorite song going round and round my head
Like my favorite song going round and round my head
Five days on the freeway, riding shotgun with you
Two hearts in the fast lane, we had big dreams in blue
Playing street, child of mine, and I still feel that line
Where are you now?
Where are you now?
Hey, it's been too long
Too long ago, my love
Where did we go wrong?
Too late to turn around
Where are you now?
Where are you now?
Hey, it's been too long
You're just like my favorite song going round and round my head
Like my favorite song going round and round my head
You're just like my favorite song going round and round my head
Like my favorite song going round and round my head
Hey, it's been too long.
Some days I can feel it, but the feeling ain't all blue.
You got me believing, one day you gotta come through.
Lost in these shitty lives, cause I can't sleep tonight.
Where are you now?
Where are you now?
Hey, it's been too long.
Too long ago, my love.
Where did we go wrong?
Too late to turn around.
Where are you now?
Where are you now?
Hey, it's been too long.
You're just like my favorite song going round and round my head.
Like my favorite song going round and round my head.
You're just like my favorite song going round and round my head.
Like my favorite song going round and round my head.
Hey.
Hey.
Hey.
Where are you now?
Where are you now?
Where are you now?
Where are you now?
Where are you now?
Where are you now?
