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Israel Strikes Gaza | Tensions Escalate In The Middle East | 🇮🇱 / 🇵🇸
Recorded: May 13, 2023 Duration: 3:02:34Space Recording
Short Summary
The discussion focused on the ongoing conflict between Israel and Palestine, highlighting the recent escalation in violence, the humanitarian impact on civilians, and the political dynamics involving various stakeholders. The conversation also touched on the role of international bodies, historical context, and the influence of external powers in shaping the conflict's trajectory.
Full Transcription
Right, guys, we are just inviting speakers, and while we do, just give us a few seconds.
Thanks.
Hey, everybody.
We're just, we're getting all the speakers up on the panel.
I know Silvan just updated everybody, but just be patient, be with us.
Getting everybody going.
I appreciate you guys with our being here.
We'll get going here shortly, guys.
Right, guys, we are just waiting for...
We've just sent invites out, so we're just waiting for some more people to come up.
But in the meantime, I'm just going to give it to Halisi.
Halisi, if you can give us an update about essentially,
and then I'll get an update from people on the other side as well,
just to give it a fair balance.
So, Halisi, if you can give an update about essentially how this escalation occurred in this instance
and what's happened over these five days before.
Yeah, sure. Thanks, Suleiman. And hi, Mario Trash and everybody on the space.
So my understanding is that this was, because, you know, there's usual kind of in the past,
oh, Hamas, you know, the same old narrative, Hamas-fied rockets, therefore we had to retaliate.
I think it's been accepted all round from what I've seen, that this was completely unprovoked.
So I don't understand the reason for it.
Gaza started being bombed, completely unprovoked, in the middle of the night when families were sleeping.
We hoped after the first night it would stop during the day, the following day, it did.
And so the Palestinian kind of resistance groups decided to not do anything.
And I believe it was on the third day that they started firing back rockets.
And they did fire back a lot of rockets in complete retaliation and in defence.
There's been many, many, many people killed on the Palestinian side.
I believe there may have been one death.
on the Israeli side as well, but it's the kind of the loss of lives, the devastation, the loss of property.
As of 10 p.m. tonight, and I'm keeping this very brief, but there's been an Egyptian brokered peace, a kind of ceasefire, let's just call it.
So it was a ceasefire that was broken by Israel. They've now agreed to a mutual ceasefire.
there were talks over the last couple of days for a ceasefire and the Palestinian factions had one thing on the table which they said we will agree to a ceasefire immediately providing you stop killing coming in and bombing Gaza under the guise of wanting to kill the leaders of the military factions there
And Israel said, no, we're not going to do that.
Because obviously, when you're bombing an entire apartment block,
you're going to kill women and children.
So it's not just about taking out military.
So it's taken a couple of days.
I'm thankful that the ceasefire has been agreed as of 10pm tonight.
And let's see how long it holds for.
So that's the update from me.
Appreciate it.
And then Daniel, thanks for joining us.
I'm much appreciated.
If you can also give us an update just from your perspective of what happened over these five days,
how it started.
Right.
what was the
what was the basically the plan
and essentially what's happened over these five days
up until then including the ceasefire
So actually, I wanted to start in the pause today.
It was kind of interesting to see that they both agree on both sides to get into a pause.
And then in a couple hours, I mean a couple minutes, eight minutes after actually the bombs continue.
And right now, it's kind of an unknowing of where is going as far as the pause.
But in the past of five days, it's been, like she said before, this is not good for nobody on both sides.
It was a bomb that fell in Israel, and it was one person got killed.
Even with the...
you know, with all the Israel, they have options to stop the markets, but it's not actually 100%.
So both sides actually wants the pause, but it's just not happening, as we see right now.
So there is no ceasefire at the moment. Is that what you're saying, Daniel?
Yeah.
Yeah, at the moment, it looks like it's not because after the pause, they will ban me.
And right now, the IDF is bombing in Gaza.
So it looks like he's going to be ongoing again.
They will respond and he will respond and the pass will...
did not actually went through.
So up until the last time I checked,
there have been 33 Palestinian deaths.
There has been one Israeli death.
And so I just want to bring Ben in, actually.
Benjamin, thanks for joining us.
Ben, just from what you're understanding,
how did this start?
What was the intended goal?
What happened?
And then if you could just give a bit more clarification,
that'd be brilliant.
Well, I probably will have maybe an unpopular viewpoint, but listen, I don't think it's that complicated, right?
You had the people who were responsible for a barrage of rockets, this is not a one day, one week, one month thing.
These are people who are on a certain list, and Israel decided to eliminate them.
And I mean, it is what it is, right?
It's just, this is nothing new.
So I really don't know what more I can add than that, right?
So listen, it's...
It's bad. For both sides, it's not good. I agree with that. But, you know, I'm not the prime minister of Israel. I'm not the spokesman. This isn't the UN.
But I can understand, right? You have people who are responsible with what they call perhaps blood on their hands from rocket barrages.
This is, again, these people are not new, right? The jihad, the members that were killed and so forth.
So tragic situation, I hope that some calm comes to the region. I don't know, though.
Carol, I want to bring you in.
If you can also, I know you want to expand on this.
I'm just dumbfounded with that answer that it's okay to just go and kill people and, you know, have some kind of...
It's okay because they're terrorists, because they're for the Al-Qazin Brigade.
It's wrong.
It's wrong.
It's wrong to kill terrorists?
What terrorists?
Ben, Ben.
Before your old child?
Ordinarily, one second, guys.
Ordinarily, I don't mind interruptions.
You know that on these spaces, but because this is going to be very much.
emotional from both perspectives.
If we allow interruptions,
we're not going to get forward.
Now, you know normally I don't mind it,
but you know when somebody else,
when you speak and when pro-Israeli people speak,
pro-Palestinians will want to speak in and do it.
I don't mind a bit of back and forth,
but let's just try and get what's going on.
And after that,
as long as we don't get chaos,
it'll be brilliant.
Go ahead, Carol.
Carol.
So he stated that it's okay.
It's okay to go in and kill someone
because they fire a couple fireworks into Israel,
the occupied territories.
I'm dumbfounded that anybody on this God's earth
would find it okay to kill people.
It just doesn't...
And the reasoning behind it,
what was the reasoning five days ago
when the barrage...
started from Israel, from Israel. Israel already said that they started it.
So do they think that somebody living in their home, in their land, cannot defend it?
You can defend yourself.
The UN said it's right to defend your home.
I don't understand how people, intelligent people, I'm sure you're intelligent, the person who just spoke.
But to come with a narrative to say it's okay to kill.
It's not okay to kill.
And the negotiations, they was brokered by Sisi in Egypt.
And who broke the, who broke it?
It was Israel that broke the ceasefire.
Israel, think about it.
A couple of rockets flying into the fire, into the air.
Israel have got the capabilities to stop this.
They've got the capabilities to stop these silly little rockets going in.
But what do they do?
They come back and they kill children.
They destroy people's homes.
They destroy people's livelihoods.
It isn't bad enough living in Gaza in a refugee camp surrounded by wars, surrounded by terrorists, be outside.
Summarize your point up in another 20 seconds and then I'll give Benjamin a chance to
I just want him to come back and tell me it's okay to kill a child.
I need him to come back and tell me.
Again, what he said, it's okay to kill me.
I want to come back and respond.
So I will respond.
Listen, you sound like a very nice lady.
So I have no, this is not personal.
This is just...
This is a conversation.
So these are not silly little fireworks, okay?
These are rockets which are not designed to just blow up in the air.
These are rockets that are designed to land in Israeli civilian.
Hold on. Allow me to finish, madam.
Thank you.
Go ahead to bed.
These are rockets that are designed to kill people, right?
These are not just little fireworks that go up in the air and, you know, for display.
These are rockets which are fired into Israeli sovereign territory with the intended purpose of killing Israelis.
They're not firing them at military bases.
They're firing them into Stéroch population centers.
Okay, so that's number one.
number two is just as you and I will
take your argument with the UN you said well they have a right to defend themselves
right
would you deny that the Israeli government has an obligation and responsibility
to a prevent rockets from falling on civilian populations number two
number three is iron dome is not 100 percent effective okay
you I know the argument you will make that the people have the right to
defend themselves for occupation Israel has the absolute right
to defend themselves from rocket attacks and so forth.
I see Ronnie Barkin in here, Shavua Tov, Chavari.
And that's what I will, I'll leave it at that for the moment.
Not your friend. Don't call me a friend.
Go ahead, Ronnie.
Well, I'm going to go ahead, Ronnie.
Ronnie, go ahead.
Okay, if I must.
I'd like to challenge every single thing about the premise of this conversation.
You're trying to deliver a quote-unquote balanced view of the situation
to bring quote-unquote both sides.
Right.
and so on.
There are no both sides
and a balanced view of the situation.
We're talking about the situation,
which is akin to the Warsaw Ghetto
being under a Nazi siege,
and what would people under that siege,
which Gaza is a concentration camp,
it was built that way,
people under that siege,
what can they do in the very limited situation
that they are if the people in Warsaw Ghetto,
if Marik Edelman,
Deputy Commander of the Warsaw Ghetto uprising, if he had access to rockets,
and he, indiscriminate rockets, and he would have shot them in the direction of Warsaw City,
would we be able to understand that? That is one thing. The other thing is,
Israel, the Zionist-Rae state, is doing absolutely nothing whatsoever in terms of
self-defense, at least since 1948.
And Ronnie...
Sorry, one last thing.
Whatever happened, whatever transpired in the past few days,
the only thing that we should be concerned about that
is how many civilians were murdered.
This is the only question that matters.
Ronnie, and if I remember right, and do apologize, you were...
basically Zionist before. Is that right or am I saying you wrong? Please just clarify.
Why are you cursing me? No, I mean, I'm a staunch anti-Zionist. I'm in Israeli dissident. I'm a staunch
anti-Zionist.
Apologies, apologies, I didn't mean it in offensive way.
So let me bring in Ariel.
I'm just getting everybody a chance to talk about
and then we'll discuss some of it.
Ariel, go ahead, you've had your hand up for a while.
Yes, good evening, good evening.
Well, firstly, we don't know what this word Palestine,
what exactly does it mean?
And where are you bringing this kind of origin?
But we have a refugees problem.
I don't know.
Am I joking?
Somebody's laughing.
Go ahead, Ariel.
Go ahead.
Please don't interrupt anybody.
Oh, okay.
Okay.
So more than that, that we don't know what's the origin.
And we have our own issues with refugees.
but Israel is a small country.
She can't handle all the refugees problems of the world.
So we need to consider that when we are coming and blaming such a little state like Israel
that helping refugees in the time of need and then get a backlash.
for doing that.
So this is a bit of hypocrisy
to come to blame the one that helped you.
Thank you.
I thank you for that.
And let me just go to Kim.
Kim, go ahead.
Love to hear your thoughts.
Yeah, hi, the roughnoon or I'll be well.
I was just going to say, so just for context, you know, the government in Israel has a lot of,
it's trying to do judicial reform, and a lot of the Israeli people are quite upset about that.
And Nathan Yadmi, he needs the kind of the unconditional support of quite the far right in this party,
who's led by, I think his name's Ben Givner.
So essentially...
This attack on Gaza came completely unexpected.
And the reason it was so awful, one, they targeted, as Kalees mentioned, in the middle of the night.
They did get their intended targets as they boasts on Twitter, if you check the IDF, Twitter.
But children were killed.
and if you notice the kind of propaganda coming out of the Israeli state right now
is the fact that you're not allowed to talk about the children
if you mention their collateral damage was accepted
why is it that Palestinians when their children die it's accepted
it's completely fine it's normal
But however, when, and they are an oppressed people.
And it's, you know, no one's denying that Israel should exist.
That's not the point of the conversation.
And the point of the conversation is, you know, is God.
No, it is absolutely a, it is absolutely a point of conversation
whether Israel has any legacies whatsoever.
So, yeah, so, well, here, here's something you can't like it, which is legitimate.
The UN recognizes that Israel isn't occupying force.
They're an occupying nation.
The Palestinians are an occupied people.
Therefore, they are allowed to defend themselves.
To give you an example of the absolute racism that's happening within Israel right now, Channel 13, you know, you must know Channel 13, they mentioned, they purely mentioned women and children dying in Gaza.
And everyone is now saying, let's boycott Channel 13 and their news anchor was assaulted in the street by racist violence.
thugs. I mean, that's a fact. And you can fact check me on this. That is the level of racism
we're going through right now in Israel. I was challenging just trying to say that there is
zero legitimacy to the criminal apartheid state of Israel. Sorry for jumping in.
No, that's absolutely fine. Thank you. No problem, Ronnie. Natalie, have I spelled that right?
Sorry, have I pronounced that right? Is it Natalie? Please go ahead.
Yeah, it's Natalie. I just think everyone's using emotions here.
Why is it always there's children or using Gaza as a concentration camp?
What gives people the right to make this about their Holocaust when it was Jews?
It was Israel.
It's all emotion.
Now let me tell you how I went through the recent rockets and the ceasefire.
The ceasefire was starting.
Well, it was here at eight.
In Israel it was 10.
And I was keeping an update to do the breaking news at 747 or at, we'll go Israel time.
At 947, rockets, siren alerts all the way through.
Up to an hour and a half after the ceasefire, there's been constant rockets,
Sederra, Ashkelon, all of southern Israel.
And then Israel has responded.
And people are just looking at this week.
Nobody's looking at last month, last week, past what we've seen right now.
The constant terror attacks, the constant stabbing of children, little boys on bikes.
You know, do Jewish lives not matter?
Is that okay to just enter and kill civilians?
It's a war crime to shoot rockets from a civilian populated area.
We've had...
Hundreds of rockets in the last week.
No, actually, it was 1,234 rockets.
Over 221 of them failed, meaning they failed and fell back into Gaza.
This is just since Operation Shield.
374 of them were only intercepted by the Iron Dome.
976 of them went into Israeli airspace.
And 71 people have been injured.
Everyone keeps saying one Israeli died.
What about the garson that was working in Israel?
What about all the injuries?
You know?
Yes, Israel has taken out the P.I.J commanders.
Thanks for that, Natalie. Let me just go to Eunice.
Eunice, I know you're normally, you're reporting in the area, so if you can provide us an update about...
I need some time, sorry. Just the later, I need a call there to be ready. I'm so very sorry.
So I'll just bring my hand on the speak.
Oh, sorry, yeah, yeah. Do you mean come back to you later? I assume that's what you mean.
Yes, yes, yes.
Yeah, yeah, no worries. But put your hand down, and then when you're ready, then you can put your hand up that way and know that you're ready.
Omar, please go ahead, I'd love to hear your thoughts.
Thank you, thanks, Salaman.
So I just wanted to start by saying Israel hasn't defined its borders, right?
So it's one of those countries that hasn't defined its borders yet.
Therefore, when people talk about projectiles being hurled at Israeli territory, we don't
know what they're talking about.
For all we know, Palestinian resistance could be launching projectiles at their own territory.
It could be some form of some form of test, testing their capability or whatever.
But we don't know what Israeli territory is, so we don't know where Palestinian resistance
were launching these projectiles.
The second thing that I wanted to call out is Israel went and assassinated Palestinians
in Palestinian territory.
and arguably under international law and occupied people have a right to self-defense.
And what we saw, i.e. Palestinian resistance launching all these projectiles could be seen as a form of resistance.
Because when you go and assault somebody, when you go and murder somebody in their home, you can't expect them to just
sit and take it, right?
So, I mean, if you go and invade somebody's home,
if you go and murder their people, they're bound to respond,
and what we saw from Palestinian resistance is a natural reaction.
People will respond, and that's what we saw.
Israel may want to spin it as much as they like to.
But the reality is Israel is the aggressor and Palestinians are the people who are occupied and who suffer unspeakable horrors and brutality at the hands of Israeli occupation.
So that's what I wanted to say. Thank you.
Thank you. And then I want to bring in Jay.
Thanks for coming. I do appreciate it. What's your thoughts?
My pleasure.
Well, this actually started, and I think your opening speaker mentioned that this started with targeted assassinations.
This started on May 4th when 104 rockets were fired by the Islamic Jihad from Gaza into Israel.
And at the same time, the Internal Security Service, the Shabakh,
realized that they discovered that there were cells within Janine and Nablis that were trying to create rockets basically on instructions from the first person who was taken out.
This is a...
uh... constant threat that israel faces and the reality is that the media
does not cover it properly uh... the problem is is that the wire services
the api and reuters
often go ahead and use local palestinian sources for the information if you
look at videos that they produce you go to their telegram channels you can
go to hamas's telegram channel
Islamic Jihad's telegram channel, you can actually see the things that they're discussing,
the coordination that's actually going on, from the videos that they come out, you can see a horde of
cameras. I mean, a couple of days ago, there was a man brought into a hospital in Gaza, and there was
150 people outside. There was about 30 people carrying the body inside. There was about a million
cameras there. This is all meant in order to go ahead and create
a narrative that just doesn't exist. Israel didn't start this. Israel, a man died in a hospital
because he refused any kind of treatment because he was on a hunger strike. And we have laws.
We have rules. If somebody decides that they don't want to go ahead and get service from a hospital,
we have to honor that. And even if he's a prisoner.
We can't force feed somebody.
We were giving him water for 86 days.
But at the end of the day, he died, and 104 rockets were fired as a result of that.
I just think that the world needs to wake up a little bit and see that the news that they're reading about this conflict from the main...
news organizations from the New York Times,
from the AP, from Reuters,
from the Guardian,
from the telegram,
are using sources. And if you look at the people
who are writing these articles, they're embedded
within these communities itself.
I'm not saying that is
Israel is completely right in killing children.
I actually personally have a strong feeling about the fact that a couple of kids were killed.
I do not agree with the narrative that those children who were killed with the leader of the Rockets group, the first assassination, were completely innocent.
I don't think that there were human shields.
I think he was a man who knew that he was targeted and he was...
changed locations, you know, before he went down to Egypt for a summit,
in order to be able to, well, be with his family.
And as a human being, I can understand that.
But at the end of the day, this man was organizing rocket strikes from Janine
and from Nablis, which basically would devastate the center of the country,
which is the most populated area.
And again, if you can see from the videos that they're producing,
that you can look at even my Twitter account and see those videos,
The Israeli strikes, I mean, with the exception of a couple, which were bomb factories and which were command structures, most of them were literally targeted inside of apartment buildings where you only got the apartment that was destroyed.
Everything around it is perfectly fine.
We're spending $100,000 on a missile that can go ahead and destroy one apartment in an eight or nine-story apartment building and leave everything else okay instead of taking $5,000 and taking a bomb and just destroying the entire building.
Why? Because there's innocent people inside.
Meanwhile, P.I.J is firing rockets at us, and those rockets are landing on civilians.
An 80-year-old woman died trying to bring her husband into a shelter.
I mean, her husband was in a wheelchair.
She was willing him.
She's 80 years old, and a rocket just hit her apartment.
And it's something that I just don't think that the world actually understands completely,
and I don't think that they want to understand it necessarily.
Okay.
Thanks, Roger.
And then Charles, hear your thoughts before we started discussing the specifics of what happened.
That way, everyone's got a star point to say something.
Go ahead, Charles.
I would just say I think it's mighty convenient that these things seem to always happen whenever the Lekud government gets in trouble.
I mean, we see, what are we in the 19th week of protests against the sort of like mobbed up government of Netanyahu?
We see also in the U.S., there's inquiries into the Israelis having hacked Hunter Biden, which is seemingly playing out in the Congress.
now. And of course, we're seeing a kind of pushback against compromised judges by the Israelis,
notably Clarence Thomas. Can you provide evidence for that?
Yes.
Yeah, absolutely.
From a reputable force, right?
Because I've heard you make these things.
Yeah.
No, no, I won't be spoken over by a Lakud person.
So sorry.
I'm not Lakud.
I'm far left.
I'm far left.
I'm not Lakshut.
But you've made these, no, hold on, Suleiman.
So I have to push back Suleiman in this.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
The Federalist Society, which is the largest outfit in the United States.
Provide the truth.
I mean, to be clear about this, the Federalist Society, which got $1.6 billion by a guy by the name of Barry Side, who is one of the larger backers of the Federalist Society.
He is a pro-Chinese, pro-Israeli actor.
And there have been a lot of inquiries into corruption around the U.S. court.
There have been a lot of inquiries into Israeli hacking efforts in the West, predominantly with Pegasus, which is a technology, which we're all familiar with.
And we've seen brave Israeli.
And what do you do about it, Charles?
What are you, what do you do about it?
By the way, you'll notice that there's this
Charles, can I ask you?
You'll notice that this Hasbarah technique.
You'll notice that this Hasbarah technique.
Why are you interrupting him?
Let him finish.
Nobody interrupted him.
The reason they're interrupting me is because they don't want people to actually know what's going on.
Yeah, that's like three people of thought to interrupt you.
Go ahead, Charles.
Yeah, I mean, look, they're proving my point for me, so it's fine.
But like, the way this works, okay, is that the United States is increasingly of the view that the Netanyahu government has to fall, given its criminal connections.
I think there's like three different.
inquiries into Netanyahu's government.
And I should say, like, as somebody who was in Israel last summer, who knows people in the
Yair-Lapid government, who's written about these topics, who's been targeted by Israeli
hacking in the United States, that a lot of us in the West are sick of this shit.
And so there's this sort of like Kabuki theater that goes on with this rocket technology, this rocket stuff, rather than addressing a real criminal government, which has hacked Americans and hacked allies of ours all around the world.
And increasingly, people are pushing back on it.
And it's long overdue. And for those who are actually curious about getting a proper education on it, I do write about this topic quite often.
By the way, my mother lived in Israel, worked under Kabbutz, my grandfather worked in Israel.
You know, there's a long tradition of those of us who are kind of just observing this area.
Yeah.
And I think what's happening is that the Netanyahu government knows it's in serious trouble.
So it's trying to, you know, wag the dog and try to get some justification to scare Israelis into basically being in favor here.
Now, Benny Gantz, I mean, you can look at the videos of the protests, 19th week of protests against the government.
Benny Gantz, National Unity Party chair, says Netanyahu should take a plea deal and resign.
You know, there's lots and lots and lots of people out there.
Now, what you won't hear in the American media is that something like 80 to 90% of the money that funds, what you won't hear is that 80 to 90%
of the money that goes to Netanyahu's government
comes from outside the state of Israel.
That's something that you won't here discussed.
And many of the people who are in this space,
you know, live in the comfort and shit.
We are discussing that all the time, Charles.
What are you talking about?
You're discussing him, Drotty, Beryl.
Stop interrupting them.
No, I'm the one that went to the courts to do that.
So you are telling me that I didn't do my job?
What are you saying?
Yeah, yeah, I am.
So let me finish, don't interrupt him.
Well, we're going to...
Yeah, well, I have cases numbers, okay?
You're going to see that American support for Israel increasingly diminishes,
and one of the ways they're trying to keep that support up
is to have these kind of kabuki theaters about attacks on Israel.
You'll hear it's the only democracy in the Middle East.
Of course, there's a larger question of whether or not it's even a democracy at all, given the role of shakedowns and hacking and targeting of people who are, you know, members of the Knesset.
So, you know, look, I've made my point. I'm happy to address them.
I'm happy to address them privately.
But I have written about a lot of these issues.
I have myself been targeted by Israeli hacking operations.
You don't have to ask...
you know, me about that.
You can ask the FBI about it.
It is a source of a criminal complaint.
It's also a source of a civil complaint that I've been involved in.
So, you know, look, I think that there's a lot of Haas bra in these kind of rooms
where people try to shape the narrative around these issues
rather than actually dealing with the reality of what's on the ground.
And I think it's important.
Yeah.
Anyway, thanks for having me.
No, no, no.
Yeah, one question?
Sure man.
One second, I just want to, I just want to then respond.
But if Ben's okay to give it to you, then that's fine.
Yes, but he spoke about the complaint that he submitted.
Where to?
Where did you submit one complaint about it?
To the Department of Justice.
Yes.
Can you send that to me?
Because I want to see what you did.
Yes, I'd like to see.
Because nobody, you are full of words, but you do zero.
Zero.
Your mother was here in Israel when you were a child.
What does that?
Do you think that you know what's going on here?
What are you talking about?
Charles, do you want to explain what you're talking about?
Yeah, sure. I'm talking about that a lot of us aren't anti-Israel, we're anti the Netanyahu government.
No, you are prehistoric.
And targeting...
I'm the only one, I'm the only activist that went to the Supreme Court to fight the Pegasos and the Phantom.
So you don't tell me what I did and fought for all the prosecution and the Palestinian and Arabs and whatever.
So you don't tell me what I did.
You don't do shit.
You sit in the United States talking nonsense.
What?
What?
Listen.
listen.
Benjamin,
they are telling people.
Everybody,
everybody,
everybody real quick.
Okay.
Number one, Ariel, we gotta get out.
They're lying to you, trash.
Ariel, I know.
Yeah, they're lying to you.
Ariel.
It's a, yes, yeah.
I know, listen, I'm gonna let you.
You guys can debate this, but let's get the microphone turned down a bit.
It's just really loud, kind of throwing off any debate.
Okay, okay.
I'll try to find another headphone just a moment.
Okay.
Yes, sir.
Yes, sir.
And if I can just respond for one minute, Zulimand.
So, listen, Taros, I've interacted with you once before, right?
So, look, you can make all the talking points you want, right?
So the claims that you're making, are they going to be on the same nature as the claims that you made about Chuck Schumer being, you know, for the sexual harassment in which the courts found that your claims were false?
Right.
and so forth.
No, that's actually not what happened.
I was actually...
Well, it is what happened.
I know you were with it.
No, it's not what happened.
Well, it is what happened.
I actually was not the FBI at the time to do with.
No, no, just to be clear about this.
No, no, but I've heard this before.
I don't need to summarize it.
So I'm very familiar with you, right?
So I worked in the...
This is nothing to do with Palestine.
What you're talking about is an internal Zionist bullshit discussion,
which has absolutely nothing to do with Palestine.
Can we go back to leave to the ongoing crimes against humanity that we're trying to do with?
Okay, you just hold on one second.
I'm going to respond.
He's trying to suggest that when I was leaked a dossier of material about Chuck Schumer,
who's the Senate Majority Leader,
I then handed that material to Mike Cernovich and to Steve Bannon.
So my question is this.
You made a claim.
You made a claim.
Where?
Ben, let him answer to that point now and then I'll let you finish.
Go ahead, Ben.
Go ahead, Charles.
Charles, go ahead.
Just unmute your mic.
Charles bottom right.
Yeah, yeah.
So just to be clear about it, I was helping the FBI at the time, and we actually mapped
out a lot of those networks through that dossier.
So I'm going to anything against Chuck Schumer.
I'm not particularly, I don't particularly care if he's the senator or whatnot.
It's not really my concern.
I don't really give a shit.
But yes, I mean, look, there are these disinformation networks in the West that exist.
and they are a real concern.
And many of them are, of course, connected with the Israelis and with Israeli activity.
And I'll be posting up in the Jumbotron piece about the role of the Israelis in the 2016 election.
Obviously, there's a lot of material about the role of the Israelis in the 2020 election,
but I think it's sort of important that people know that if we don't deal with the occupation in Israel,
many of us will also suffer the consequences of that in the West.
And there's a sort of larger problem here of our refusal to treat the Palestinians as human beings
and the ways in which this is being foisted upon the rest of us.
by an Israeli government that is predacious
that does things like hack Kevin Tujihara,
right, the head of Warner Brothers
and try to get out a consensual affair he's had
that tries to compromise U.S. politicians
like the whole Matt Gates scandal.
And so, yeah, there's a real problem here,
and we need to address it
and address it very, very, you know, forthrightly and quickly.
Yeah.
Right, I'll just be one second, Suleiman.
So you made, and this is related to the topic at hand.
You made a claim about Clarence Thomas and the courts and so forth and so forth.
I'm still waiting for you to provide a credible source up in the Jumbo Trond to back those claims up.
Thank you.
I recommend people to look at all the ProPublica work about the Federalist Society.
And in particular...
You mentioned Clarence Thomas by name.
The Clarence Thomas example of him being paid all the bribes by Harlan Crow is a good example of that.
Charles, I don't want to talk about Clarence Topper.
It's not relevant.
I don't blame you, but ProPublic has a great place for people to go on that.
Goodbye, everyone.
I can't be bothered with this Zion.
Right.
This is just ridiculous.
Like, I get Ben, you want to basically diminish what he says, but it's not relevant to the point.
Let's go to Ronnie.
No, Suleiman, just to use Suleyman.
How is Clarence Thomas relevant been?
I will explain it to you, because he made a claim talking about the Zionist government.
No, no, Suleiman, Suleiman, no, Suleiman.
You cannot just simply make a claim like that that says that the Jews are involved in this and that in Israel.
Suleiman, allow me to finish.
I don't work.
Suleiman, he made a very strong claim, right?
That goes back to these conspiracy theories about Israel,
and he specifically referenced Clarence Thomas.
And in honest intellectual conversation,
and in interest of transparency,
I would like to note the point that he made
and if he could provide proof for that.
Sulem, you have to understand,
when someone makes a claim like that in front of 6,000 people,
or how many people are in this space, okay, if that is not backed up with proof or refuted,
people will believe that.
And that is very dangerous.
Sorry, but Jay made a lot of claims here, and you never asked him for any backup or evidence.
So it's not selective, Benjamin.
I was smoking when Jay was speaking.
I'm sorry.
I was sure.
It's very selective, Benjamin.
Because Jay's made a lot of, can I speak, Solomon?
Is that okay now?
Can I come back on some things?
Yeah, go for it.
Yeah, thank you so much.
So firstly, Benjamin, when you started speaking about the fact that, you know, rockets were fired and therefore we had to respond,
it's really disappointing coming from somebody like you.
And I'll tell you why, because under an...
Let me now, Benjamin, you have had your fair share of space to stay on this.
Now, you're going to let me speak.
Because you and Ariel have a tendency to interrupt people, okay?
Okay.
So, it is a given and it's fact.
Under international law, Israel has the right to defend itself, okay?
Sorry, under international law, sorry, Hamas and the Palestinian factions have the right to defend themselves because they're the occupied people.
So even if it was the case, even if it was that rockets were coming in, which it wasn't, by the way, on this occasion.
they have a right to do that.
Now, if you go to the IDF Twitter page,
okay, they announced five days ago that they're launching operation,
the operation, and I think they called it Operation Shield and Arrow.
Before that, the last time they posted something about rockets was the third of me.
When they said, oh, because this was a rocket launch site,
we've destroyed it because they didn't say rockets were fired.
They said we've destroyed the site because it was a manufacturing site.
That was on the third of me.
Five days ago, they launched this operation.
It was two days after that, three days ago,
that they did the first tweet saying a barrage of rockets are fired towards southern Israel.
That was the first tweet from IDF themselves,
and that was the first time the IDF said, rockets are fired.
So any notion?
that this was actually done by, you know, Israel in terms of self-defense, it's nonsense.
Since 2012, Israel has broken every ceasefire and attacked Gaza and other territories, every single one.
Fact-checking.
Carol, because I have fact-checked.
I live here.
Jay, I'm not talking to you.
See, this is the problem, Sileman, you see.
They come up with this.
It's not a problem.
No, no, it is a problem because you're not letting me speak, Jay.
I did not interrupt you.
I'm not interested in listening to your propaganda, Jay.
Jay, I have a son.
I am not.
listening to your propaganda. You're going to let me finish. I'm not interested to your propaganda.
Okay. I'm going to finish. And then you can respond if you want to. Because I listened to everything
you said. Nothing was fact checked. You produced evidence of nothing. It was a great Jacanori.
Brilliant, fairy story, Jay. But it's not true. I actually want to come on to Natalie's point in a minute because
she made some really good points. But I just want to check this firstly. So you mentioned, oh,
you know, all of this started because one man died. Let me tell you,
that man who died on hunger strike.
Okay.
He was held in detention between 1999 and 2010 without any charge.
Okay.
He did do hunger strikes at that time as well.
He was let out and he was further detained between 2014 and 2021.
He was then detained again.
He's been...
on hunger strike every time he was detained because he was arrested without any charge.
There was not what, he was never charged between 1999 and 2023.
5th of February, 2023 was the last time he was arrested.
Israel let him die.
You let him die.
And why?
Because you believed he was a leader of one of the faction groups that was defending themselves against Israel.
Now, I want to come to Natalie.
Natalie, you made some really good points.
And I understand that whilst you're saying, let's keep the emotion out of it, because you did say that, you yourself were very emotional.
And I can understand when rockets are coming and you've got those sirens, how terrifying it must be.
And yes, Ben, you're right, Benjamin, that the rocket detection systems don't always work.
So it's very frightening to live in Israel.
And if I was in that position, I would be really frightened.
But here's the thing.
Number one, you have shelters to run to.
So that's the first thing.
Number two, you have sirens that tell you to run to those shelters.
Then you've got those dome detection systems.
And in the event they don't work, you have David Slink.
David's sling costs one million pounds each time,
but it was used at least two times in this operation that Israel launches.
So you have all of those things.
Now, if you're so emotional about these sirens and the fact that you have to go and hide in a bunker,
which gives you safety...
then you just think about the fact that you're locked in an open-air prison
with nowhere to go, no sirens, no shelter.
And this, you know, this thing that you peddled here, Jay,
about the fact that we take out one apartment.
I challenge anybody to go and look in the media,
look at my Twitter page,
I've got live feeds as these buildings are being hit,
I'm posting them.
Look at the number of casualties,
the women and children that were killed.
That isn't because you took out militants.
The operation that was launched, no, wait, I'm going to land on this point.
The operation that was launched for to kill three allegedly militant leaders by Israel that was achieved on the first night.
Why did you carry on bombing women and children and killing them for five days?
Because you've done your job on the first night.
I'll summarize your point in 15 seconds.
That's it. That's it. I'm done for now. Thanks.
All right. Can I, yeah, J.R. Nackery, go ahead. One of these correspond.
So the men was, was it working? Your question to me.
No, I don't know.
Yeah, I can I respond
because she was
obviously
One second, Natali, I am going to go to you.
Eunice, you have got a few minutes
haven't you?
Can I go to Natalie first?
Are you leaving?
No, no, I'm going to stay.
Let me speak and then I can see.
I'll go ahead, Natalie, Natalie.
Okay, I'm going to leave.
I can't stand this,
I'm in this, sinus discussion.
Sorry, I suggested to add
Stanley Cohen to the discussion.
Have a good night.
Shave you're good night.
I think you're going to be in Syria.
I didn't, I don't
I don't talk to you.
Well, Flimai and I, Maxsav, let us see.
Guys, guys, guys, guys.
Can we keep it English, please?
You didn't have one single Zionist who's not a propaganda, proper propaganda.
The Hasbroz.
Not a single one, not a single reasonable Israeli who would say anything other than the propaganda line.
And it is a pathetic discussion that doesn't at all deal with issues.
It's all about a diversion from the issue.
And I have better things to do with my time.
Thank you.
Have a good night.
You two.
Go ahead, Natalie.
Yeah, was it Khalis speaking?
It was she made some good points.
But...
We're not, has anybody actually looked in, so I've done a lot of work on Adnan and I was looking on how this all started with Adnan.
Why he was arrested, why he wasn't charged.
He was a senior leader and when he was in prison in 2014, I think it was, he became one of the longest.
At that time, obviously guys had come after him and been the longest hunger striker in the history of Palestinians, you know, in Israel jails.
And he'd become famous for this.
He had trained all.
Since then, it is...
Well documented that that man was a leader who had trained all of those Palestinian prisoners to start hunger strikes.
They're literally wanting to die.
We're dealing with a nation that want to die.
How does Israel deal with people who sacrifice their own people?
to die for propaganda.
Because you've let them with nothing to live for, Natalie.
That's why.
Do you not understand that?
Nothing to live for.
Let her speak. Let her speak afterwards. Go ahead.
Let Natalie speak. Go ahead, Natalie, go ahead.
Adnan has done at least 20 hunger strikes in the last.
I can't remember the dates.
Carey's got them out.
And I've done many posts on it.
He was not an innocent man.
And as the other guy said,
there are laws in Israel.
If you do not want to eat,
you don't eat.
Israel won't for it's a democracy.
They can call it propaganda as much as they want.
Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East.
That's a lie.
It is.
It is.
It is.
1-1-1-1-deme.
One second, guys.
Let Natalie,
let Natalie, summarize your point, please.
In 15 seconds, and I'll go to you,
and I'll go to you, no.
I thought you finished that.
That's why I was going to move to somebody.
No, summarised is that Nan was not innocent.
And we all know this is why this lot of attacks
has happened with the rockets.
Hamas have been...
You know, PIJ are just trying to get in Hamas' base.
Hamas are Iranian proxies.
P.I.J. are trying to take over.
It's clear what's happened.
Adnan was running all that.
And these anti-Semitic American conspiracies of Jews are involved in all this and that.
It's not going to work when you're talking about facts.
You can't just come on the Twitter space and drop some anti-Semitic conspiracy theories,
like Jews are involved in this, that, and the other.
You had an IDF officer executed.
Please Charles, get me here, please finish her.
In the fucking head.
What about Biden funding all these, all these trainers?
Who was a journalist who is observing the abuses that are going on in those territories.
Okay?
Let's go into that then.
What about Biden?
Yeah.
Nali, I have a question for you.
Nathia, I have a question for you.
So given everything you said about Israel, one second, one second, one second, I just want to ask one question, one question.
We'll come to in a second.
Yeah, yeah.
So, Natalie, you said Israel's the biggest democracy and this guy was training all these other people to die and they were ready to die and Israel was just.
So I have one question.
why didn't Israel charge him with a crime between 1999 until the day he died?
Not one charge. Why?
How can you keep someone incarcerated without charging them for so long?
Why? Answer that, please.
Because he was released many times in that time.
He was backed up and released.
He wasn't completely incarcerated for that whole time.
He was for 10 years at one point without charge.
Why, Natalie?
Okay.
Khalise can ask you a question? How does a man go 87 days refusing food and water but miraculously
choose to stay remain alive right how does that happen? It's not the point is it why wasn't he charged
you've been incarcerating him since 1999 one of your fellow people on this space said he was the
reason and Israel was my fellow people about keeping somebody in prison without charging them what's
humane are you saying innocent the man was innocent it wasn't
in charge of PRJ.
I'm saying I can't have found any evidence
on him because they didn't charge him. It's your government
that didn't charge him. It's not me, is it?
Wait, wait, wait. Calais, my fellow people, I'm an
American and you know that. My fellow people, I'm
disappointed that you would say that. My fellow people.
I was disappointed in you, Benjamin. I'm sure we'd be friends
again tomorrow, but right here, right now.
We're going to host another space again. Don't worry.
Khalis and I are friends, by the way.
We're good friends.
Can I speak with Nemean, please?
You asked me a question, so late, man.
What was your question?
Well, I asked your question, but you said you were too busy and we moved on.
No, no, no.
I'm sorry.
I'm going back to you now.
Yeah, yeah.
What is your question?
I want to answer.
So my question was, just moving the conversation back to what we were talking then, at that time it was essentially what happened.
So what happened that caused this initial...
escalation and what's over these five days what's happened like how many deaths have they been
how many injuries is they been and then up until the ceasefire and then both sides are claiming
that the other side is not respecting the ceasefire so you can give us more information on that
Okay, first of all of you who doesn't know me, I'm an independent reporter.
I do a lot of interviews with Palestinian officials from Malian, Hamas, whatever you want.
So I'm very thoroughly read up about what's happening.
I want to begin with that there is something called occupation.
It doesn't mean work.
Occupation means a military control over an acquisition of areas and imposing a military control on these areas.
This is called occupation.
Whether in Gaza or in the West Bank or East Jerusalem,
this is not something that Israelis said.
I don't care what Israel said.
I say what the international community says.
And I also take some consideration to the Supreme Court,
Judge about 2000 of 5 when they said,
we hold the West Bank and Gaza under belligerent occupation.
I take this for granted.
I don't take opinions.
What you have in opinions is not something that is discussed
in the UN tables or in the peace folks.
So that's the first thing.
Regarding to Khadr Annan, he's a political striker.
I want to reply to Khalis to Natalia.
You said, oh, he will be willing to sacrifice like this.
It's like telling the French under the Second World War, but you lost.
What are you doing?
Why keep fighting and killing yourself?
This is the same rhetoric.
This is a very racist speaking, like,
there is an Armenian,
this is very relevant to what I'm going to talk to.
His name is the Hakkan.
And he wrote an article about genocide,
calling it the topologies of genocide.
The first thing that they do,
and I think, and I believe this is something...
They were well documented that Israeli military forces have begun massacres against Palestinian people.
It's not they dehumanized Palestinians. We're not equal. This is something that I say.
There's something that an Israeli minister said that if a fly wants to harm me, I will kill the fly and his children.
If it uses it's if it uses it behind.
So regarding to what started this, there was a political president.
Her name is Khadrardan.
And he's a Palestinian Islamic jihad, senior official.
I don't know.
Why should I deny that?
He's that.
But he was political.
He was non-competent.
So he wasn't acting or attacking Jews or planning.
Non-combatants.
Don't tell people to go ahead and strap on bombs.
I got on video
excuse me
excuse me let me
let me answer
let me answer
let me answer
I don't take
what you would
because you're
hushbaris
you're spreading
hushbar out
I take what
these are the military
court said
we can
let him die
in order to
tell the other people
to not hunger
strike
I will tell you
because you don't live in the Occupate West Bank
you live in Tel Aviv or the bubbles within Israel
where the desert bloom
as they said
but you're not in the West Bank
you don't see the military course in the West Bank
and how there is 99.7 conviction rate
but even in the
99.7 conviction rate
Hadrana wasn't convicted. He
Because the Israeli military, and I told you, the Israeli military for my family, if they are just suspicious about something, they will just put it on you and sentence you for a time.
But being quite anything against...
When you give a speech to a bunch of kids about strab...
Pardon? Pardon? Pardon? Pardon? I don't want words. I don't want your opinions. Your opinions are not relevant.
Are we talking international community? We're talking law? We're talking about the international...
It's not an opinion. It's...
Wow. Documented. Exactly.
One question. One question. When you go ahead, one question. Okay.
Ask people to put on suicide belts and walk themselves into restaurants and blow themselves up.
And ask who's going to be the next one. Excuse me. Jay, Jay, I have one question.
When you have members of the government, when you have members of the Israeli government that are talking about ethnically cleansing Palestinians.
I'm speaking. I'm speaking.
Yeah.
I'm with you.
By the way, I agree what you're saying.
Unis, summarizing 15 seconds, bro, because you would go on.
One question.
Is the West Bank and Gaza under military occupation?
Yes.
If you say no.
Gaza is not.
I would say that parts of the West Bank are, yes.
Pardon, pardon.
I don't take what you say.
Your opinion is irrelevant.
And my opinion is irrelevant.
Gaza is not too much.
There's not one soldier in Gaza.
In 2004, Supreme Court of Justice said, there is not one soldier in Gaza.
That's a fact.
Okay, I want to reply to that.
Okay, so, guys, I want to know.
I want to sum up.
Right, you keep talking over each other.
I'm going to go to somebody else for a question.
No, I want to sum up in a second.
No, no, Eunice, that's it.
Because he interrupted me.
But he interrupted me.
That's fine, but I'm going to go to Benjamin.
I've got a question for Benjamin.
Benjamin, I've got a question for you.
One, and his question from the audience, actually,
sort of one point in clarification, some doctor mess up.
And said that you can actually be on hunger,
hunger strike for more than 90 days.
He said for 90 days.
So, yeah.
I can counter that, right?
So the general rule of thumb is a human being can go three minutes without oxygen, three days without water, and three weeks without food.
The notion that someone is refusing all food and water for 87 days is a medical fallacy.
You can ask Dr. Dinesh.
So that's just not valid.
It was actually Dr. Dinesh who messaged me.
But anyway.
Dr. Dinesh is saying that a man can go 87 days without water?
No, no, with water, with water only.
Okay, so that is a political hunger strike.
I can accept that, right?
But that is not, I'm refusing everything, right?
That's for sure, I get that.
Okay, okay.
So, Benjamin, just a quick question.
Quick question, in terms of that person who was imprisoned,
Um, why was he not charged?
Like, I have a problem when somebody's not charged for 30 days, for 60 days.
But Suman, he's not in the West Bank.
Ask Muhammad.
Ask anyone Palestinian, he will tell you because he's not in the West Bank.
He doesn't know any military court.
Like, how do you respond an answer?
Eunice, I'm asking you.
Unis, sorry, Eunice.
I'm asking Benjamin, why it is that somebody is held for 10 years without being charged?
Yeah.
So I'm not a lawyer in Israel.
I'm not,
the answer is I don't know.
And I can say that honestly
and confident,
I don't know.
I am not familiar with this case.
No problem.
I'm going to give...
Let me go to Muhammad first and I'll go to Jaya.
Mohamed, are you in Gaza right now?
No, not at the moment.
But I can quickly pick up to save time on Kader Adnan.
Well, around the time that Israel arrested him the first time,
or second time, actually, early 2000.
It was around the time that Israel as well accused
and Israeli of the same things with official charges.
Kader was not charged at the time.
And it was the same accusation, associating and supporting a terrorist organization and incitement to racism and violence.
And that individual was Itima bin Gvier, who's now Israel's national security minister.
So if you track the process that both of them has gone through, it pretty much paints a picture of the situation that Palestinians and Israelis have two different legal systems.
So Itemar went through a civil court, didn't spend a single day in prison, and was eventually convicted.
And he was never sentenced to a single day in jail even after the conviction on four counts of incitement to racism, supporting a terror organization, which is the kahanist movement that assassinated Rabin and committed the massacre at the Ibrahimia mosque.
At the same time, Khadar Adnan was arrested from day one without charges, put in prison in different periods for the total of about seven to nine years, 12 times in total.
His only way out each time he went into prison was a hunger strike.
He did it about five times.
That was his only ticket out because Israel's administrative detention,
which is extensively used against Palestinians as a tool of containment,
is basically allowing them to detain Palestinians six months without any charges
subject to indefinite extension on secret evidence that Palestinians will not be allowed to defend against or even see.
So in the last time that he went on hunger strike, what changed is basically his daily security minister,
Mabindvir not wanting to release him.
just having the exact same guy that was arrested at the same time or the same charges,
being now in charge of the prison services in Israel.
And his family requested that he be transferred to a civil hospital.
He agreed to it as well.
There's an Israeli NGO physician for human rights.
They visited him in prison a few days before he died,
and they said that his death was clearly imminent.
They requested that he should be transferred to a hospital.
Israel usually did transfer him to a hospital in previous hunger strikes.
But this time, the judge, the military judge, because he was always court-martialed in a military tribunal, which is the treatment that Palestinians get under occupation, as opposed to Israel, is going always to a civil court.
So the military judge, which is Lieutenant Colonel Minahem Liberman,
He is the same judge that sentenced Ahed Tamimi to about eight months in prison for the charge of pushing and slapping a soldier at her house, right after they shot her cousin in the head.
And it's the same military judge that sentenced Isa Amru, a nonviolent resistance icon in the West Bank,
to a suspended sentence after enormous international pressure on the crime of protesting nonviolently,
yelling at a soldier and protesting without a permit.
So he basically denied the request to transfer Kaddr to a hospital.
And he said, I don't see any reason why he needs it.
It's not urgent.
The family tried to plead repeatedly.
The judge would answer in the same way until he eventually died.
The other problem that after he died, Israel refused to release his body to his family.
So there is the Israeli policy of withholding the bodies of Palestinian security prisoners
or what they would deem as terrorists.
And there is about 270 of them.
Some of them have been held.
since 1967 in something that we call the symmetry of numbers.
They're not given names in that sort of detention facility.
And the reason for that is two things according to Israel itself.
Number one, deterrence, so collective punishment, basically,
terrorize and traumatize other Palestinians.
And number two, as a bargaining chip in future negotiations.
So with that Khadr-Adnan incident after that escalation spark with the Palestinian Islamic Jihad in Gaza, and Israel strikes them back on the same day, then Qatar, Egypt, and Hamas agreed to a Cesar and the PIA agreed to a Cesar with Israel.
A week later.
So, Mohammed, if you can just summarize a point in 30 seconds.
Yes, yeah, yeah.
So a week later, fast forward, we go to this escalation of Itimar Bin,
we are saying I'm not going to attend any government meetings.
I'm not going to sit in this government unless you go for explicit targeted assassination policy.
The timing and location that Israel chose for striking PIJ leaders meant the high casualty in civilians that we saw.
There was an IDF spokesperson that said we've been tracking them for a week.
That's literally what he said.
They knew their whereabouts, their precise location for a week.
They chose it at a timing in the dead of the night around 2.30 in the evening.
and they chose it at a multi-story apartment building.
The IDF said that they knew there would be civilians in,
but they went forward and said that it's acceptable collateral damage.
After that incident, 36 hours have passed without any Palestinian retaliation,
but the Israeli strikes on Gaza continued.
One of them was on two people that were tending to a farm in Khanunis,
And the IDF posted it said we eliminated them before they launched a rocket against us.
It was about six to eight hours after that the first projectiles were launched from Gaza.
Thank you for that. Let me go to either Jay or Ha.
Sorry, Jose.
Go ahead, Jay.
So I'm not going to say that Israel has not done things that, you know, we're not proud of.
And we have.
I mean, in every war and every military situation, there's always unfortunate casualties.
What I am going to say is that Adnan was a threat.
He was a threat because he was popular.
He had a large following.
And there are videos.
You can go to the Middle East Media Research Institute,
Memory.org.
And you can go ahead and look up videos of Adnan,
and you can see him actually enticing people to go ahead
and blow themselves up inside of restaurants,
like the sparrow bombing,
which, you know, you mentioned Kamimi's niece.
Well, you know, she was arrested for slapping an officer,
and I'm not quite sure.
quite sure how I feel about that, but I do know that her aunt actually is roaming free in Jordan.
She has warned against her in the United States for driving the bomber to the sparrow bombing,
which killed, you know, a whole bunch of Israelis. And it was in the center of Jerusalem.
You can argue that, you know,
Israel occupies the West Bank or Judean Samaria, as I like to call them, because that's the proper name.
And parts of it they do, and that's Area C.
Under the Oslo Accords, the Palestinian Authority has the responsibility of policing Area A, which is theirs.
And Janine and Nablus, which is where most of the incursions that Israel makes into are under...
Palestinian control. However, you can see from the videos and you can go to the
telegram channel, Janine Kasam, J-E-N-I-N-Q-A-S-A-M, if you're on
telegram, and you can go ahead and look at what they're posting. They don't like
the police. They shoot up the police regularly. The police come, the Palestinian police
come regularly.
They cannot control them.
And a military force like Israel, yes.
And you can say that we're more equipped so we should have a lighter hand.
But no, we're more equipped because we want to save lives.
They want to save people in Israel.
They don't want, I mean, it's not about hurting the Palestinians.
It's not about punishing them in any way, sense, or form.
But if there's...
If there's 5,000 militants in a city of 100,000 people,
those 5,000 militants are going to make the lives of those 100,000 people, you know, difficult.
And I think that people need to understand that this is not an easy situation to resolve.
These kids are taught from a very, very early age, usually in unrefunded schools that they should commit murder.
They should kill a Jew.
And it's not killed a Zionist.
It's killed a Jew.
Okay. And that's so I just want to bring Halisi, Halisi, I just want to make a bit more, bring a bit of more structure to this kind of conversation. So essentially, let's go back to what's happened. So this operation that was initiated by Israel was an operation. What was there, shadow something?
Felici?
Yeah, sorry.
So, yeah, it was called Operation Shield and Arrow.
Oh, shield and arrow.
And what was the motive behind,
what was the objective of that operation?
The IDF said, the Israeli government said it was to kill militants,
Palestinian militants that were leaders of the Palestinian resistance.
That's what they said it was.
Okay, and how did they go about it?
But they completely bombed.
I think by their own admission,
give me one second,
because I did have a look.
They posted 40,
I think they said it was...
40 rockets or something that night itself bombs 40 bombs that night 40 for zero to take out three people and as a result obviously women and children were killed and this is this is the Israeli government saying it this is not me saying it so that's the first thing that I will add secondly I just want to
how many people did the Israeli government say were killed that night
I'm going to check that actually
They said they took out the three militant lead
In inverted commas
What is really government courts
Not many women and children
Who were innocent civilians were killed
Well Jake, here's the thing right
So Jake, listen to me
So Laman asked me a question
I'm responding to him
I'm not here to be interviewed by you
I sit here quite me with my mic on mute
And I listen to your rhetoric
Without interrupting you
And believe me I'm triggered enough to do so
But I don't
because I'm trying to be courteous.
Enjoy.
Yeah.
So I'm trying to be courteous.
So please let me respond.
So they wanted to take out these militant leaders.
They did so on the first night.
But they carried on.
And obviously, you know we were having spaces on this right through the day,
sometimes right through the night.
We were waiting for a response.
Now, initially, there was no response by the Palestinian factions.
Right.
And we were trying to understand why there was no response.
Were they waiting on the UN to do something?
Were they waiting for, you know, Nakba Day,
because the United Nations are going to celebrate Nakba Day on Monday for the first time in history.
And this is something that's really triggered Israel.
And I believe that's something to do with the timing of this.
I think Kim Jong was right.
When he said, look, I don't believe Benjamin Netanyahu's got the power that he once had.
I believe his political careers hanging by a thread.
I think he wanted to flex his muscles and give a distraction to people.
And he's used Palestinian lives as collateral damage to give that distraction, number one.
Number two, I also think he did it because he thought that, you know, if this was prolonged,
then the Nakhba day would be cancelled or it would make the Palestinians look really bad in the eyes of the world.
But it didn't.
because there were more people out in central London
than there's ever been today to protest this
and for Nakba Day.
And there's going to be more people continuing to learn about this.
I know when we do spaces, Suleiman,
people are opening their eyes to what's happening.
When we talked about...
just now about the hunger strike of that one person,
Natalie was talking about it.
I just want to like, you know, this isn't a one-off thing when we talk about it.
So as an example, I just give you a couple of figures very, very quickly.
In Israel holds currently 4,900 Palestinians in prison.
And this includes 1,016 administrative detainees who are held for an indefinite period without trial or charge.
And when they're asked, why aren't you triangles or charging girls or letting us go, they say, oh, no, it's because we have secret information on you. What is that? We don't know. So this is what we sit here and listen to when people say it's a democracy. The other thing I want to just say, I'll give a very specific example very quickly. A young boy, 13 years old.
He was held in prison to this day.
And the experts are saying that he requires immediate medical attention.
He's been held without charge to this day.
By all means, look him up.
I'll give you his name.
His name's Manasra.
Manasra, I'm pronouncing it right, I think.
And...
Ahmed Manasra, 13 years old.
He's not a militant leader.
He's a 13-year-old child.
He's been held in solitary confinement to this day.
Every time he gets a court date, it's extended for six months.
No charge, no trial, nothing.
This is what Israel does.
It treats Palestinians in an inhumane way.
And look, we can talk about rockets all day long, but international law...
which every country
He dabs a child.
He ds a child.
Don't talk about it.
He was at the age of 13, Natalie.
If you have a child...
At 13, he's a child.
Even under international law, he's a child.
He's not even hit 16 yet.
Even in England by law, he's a child at 13.
I don't know, maybe in Israel.
You guys don't class a 13 year old as a child.
I don't know what you class 13 year old.
We do, actually.
If it's murder, if it is murder in England and law.
Then why haven't you charged him with murder?
Why haven't you charged him with murder?
Why haven't you charged him with anything?
Why is in solitary confinement?
Confinement?
Because I'm not a lawyer.
I don't 100% know.
I know that Israel holds these people.
Well, Halisi, have you got evidence of this?
One second.
Yeah, yeah.
Evidence that a cat, this child is under in solitary confinement.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We'll send it to you right now.
I'll send it to you right now.
So, because I mean, I'm fact-checking everything I speak about.
So I can happily send you something I'm talking about.
She is right and what she's saying.
Natalie, are you said she's right?
Okay, no problem.
Sorry, go ahead, Elise.
Yeah, Natalie's saying I'm right, because literally you put his name into Google.
Why do we need to approve or disapprove what, you know, saying decent people are saying?
Ronnie, I need to, why do we seek their approval?
Ronnie, let me answer you.
Yeah, it's just because, you know what, Ronnie, if I come here and I fact-checked everything, it helps.
Also, if somebody comes here with propaganda, I can call them out and say, that's not fact-checked, and that's not true, that's an opinion.
So I think it's important to produce this.
And it's not just for us on the panel, Ronnie, it's also for the thousands of listeners, right?
We haven't demolished every single point that the designers have made since the very opening of this space.
This space,
put up the fact on the jump-o-johns from beginning to end.
We haven't, I can, I can, you know,
throw every single argument that they have made until now to the garbage.
I didn't jump in because I was trying to respect the space,
but eventually I said goodbye, and then you called me back.
But sorry, I didn't want to interrupt Halisi.
I just said, you know, we don't need to seek the approval of the propagandists
just to make your point.
That's all I'm saying.
Okay.
No, I understand, Ronnie, and thank you so much.
Look, at the end of the day, you can sit here, we can sit here and say, you know, hypothetically, if this had started this operation by, let's say, there was a complete ceasefire.
And let's just say Hamas or one of the Palestinian factions broke the ceasefire by firing 300 rockets in the middle of the night.
And therefore, Israel felt compelled to go and bomb.
that still makes Israel the aggressor
and I'll tell you why
because every country in the world
adheres to international law
with the exception of Israel.
Israel does not adhere to international law
I'll give you an example
a really strong example
a couple of days ago
there was a
I think it was the Chinese foreign minister.
He went to the United Nations with the few other countries to actually table a motion against Israel.
And immediately, the United States, who funds Israel, by the way, every year by billions,
billions of taxpayers money.
Not only that, but Israel also funds
by keeping a whole backup
of arms in Israel. The United States
keeps that just in case Israel
should need it. I mean, do you have the approval
of the U.S. citizens
to spend this money? No.
But anyway, so I say USA is
completely complicit in this, but
This is what the Chinese foreign minister said.
We call upon the United States to shoulder its due responsibilities of taking a fair position, a just position.
Regrettably, simply because of the obstruction of one country, which is the USA,
the Security Council hasn't been able to speak with one voice.
And the US repeatedly blocks statements and resolutions concerning Israel.
This suggests that Israel has significant influence on US policy at the UN Security Council.
This hinders the international community's ability to take action and hold Israel accountable for the ongoing violence.
and America shares the responsibility.
So this is coming straight from the Chinese foreign
minister Wangyi. The world is
waking up to this guys. You can't
peddle this narrative anymore that
Israel's the victim and the aggressors.
You know, tell me the last time that you heard
somebody with a suicide. I mean, it
wasn't bad enough going into Gaza, but then you started killing people in the West Bank two days
ago. What was the reason for that? You weren't getting rockets out of the West Bank and land,
and you're talking about the same Iran that just got, I mean, the same UN that just got Iran a spot
on the technology. Look, everything is about Iran Hussein. I appreciate you want to come here
and peddle IRGC, this, that, and the other. We're talking about Israel, Palestine. Read the room, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I am reading the room, but I'm saying that...
So can Hussein finish?
I'm interested to hear his perspective.
And Sulaiman, so you can get a room with him because that's not what this base is about.
Yeah, Suleiman, just a point of clarification, Dr. Dinesh messaged me.
Yeah, sorry, Dr. Dinesh also messaged me.
So it is not...
three months or whatever without water.
So maybe you can read that clarification, right?
So we are in law.
Then you probably weren't listening
because you probably haven't another fact.
But I did say...
I was smoking.
I need to quit smoking.
Yeah, you need to quit smoking.
This room makes me smoke.
Yeah, I mean, maybe you should come less, but don't, because you're a good contributor.
But what I mean is, what you call it?
No, I did say with water, but you can listen back.
But, because what happened was when you were saying it, I quickly reread what he said, and then I said with water.
So 90 days with water.
I want to go to, so thanks about Ben, so Ben spoke.
So let me go to Ronnie.
Ronnie, go ahead.
Please, please.
Salaman, you've given me the turn a few times and then you turned away from me.
Every time I try to...
All right, okay.
I think it's because I was going to go to you and then Jay said, you know what?
Forget Hussein, I'm going to go.
Yeah, and it's about Palestine, Holtan.
Let me go to Ronnie and then I'll go to Hussain.
Go ahead, Ronnie.
Well, thank you.
I don't mind if Hussain takes it first.
Okay, brilliant.
Hussain, go ahead.
Thank you.
Just let me start from where Khalisia ended that we have to be taking
lessons, ethical lessons from the foreign minister of China.
And this China together with Russia.
I didn't say that, the same.
Don't misquote me.
I didn't say take ethical lessons.
I read a statement he mentioned at the United Nations.
I did not say you take ethical lessons from China.
No, no, no, no, you're not going to misquote me.
The world was waking up.
No, I said the world was waking up and the world is waking up.
And I said there were more people on the streets of London than any other time.
Do not misquote me.
Listen, this is what you do.
You clarified it.
You clarified it.
Go ahead.
Your said.
So anyway, so China and Russia are the two countries that practice at least a dozen vetoes to shield Bashar Assad, who OPCW has proven that he used chemical weapons on his own people.
So let's just let me just put this first ahead.
Now let's go back to the motives because I noticed we started discussing the motives and then we went on so many tangents.
So the motives here, I think if you want to check out the numbers,
In the year 2022, 27 Israelis were killed by Palestinians.
This was a notable uptick at least compared to,
or if you go back 15 years, you wouldn't find such a number.
So how many Palestinians will kill that, yeah?
No, no, I'm saying in 2020...
He's cutting a narrative, Suleiman.
I'll give you the figures later.
Halisi, Helisi, Helisi.
One second.
Let Hussein speak.
I'm generally asking Ash, don't know.
This topic...
We also need...
Suleiman, we also need a disclosure here,
given that Hussein makes money from a lot of the...
basically Jewish-American oligarchs who support a lot of the occupation.
So people should be mindful of how he makes money.
And those 90s double to people.
And we can be happy.
If you mentioned that, Hussein is affiliated with a CIA affiliate organization called FD,
which is working in tandem with the Israeli Ministry of Strategic Affairs.
This is the FDD.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, right.
Yes, Hussein, I'm sure.
I'm sure you're right.
Shall we go through everybody's...
Should we go through everybody else's occupation?
What about Muhammad's pictures with Ishmael Hanaya,
head of Hamas?
We won't see what you all do.
We all have...
All right, all right. Let's not devolve this conversation. Let's not go there, guys. I appreciate you guys. I know this is a very, very difficult topic to moderate. I would try to not have. Sure, but I do think we do have an obligation so that the people know in the space, how people make money. And there's a disclosure there that's important. And just to be, as a point of clarification, FDD is no longer funded by the CIA as of two years ago. Just
Can we do that same disclosure for you?
And does that change?
Do they no longer work with the Israeli Ministry of Strategic Affairs?
Do they no longer participate in anti-BDS activity?
No, just to be very clear, I'm quite transparent about my funding sources.
I have about 90 investments.
I do all kinds of investing for the U.S.
And for the British.
The question is how can you look yourself in the mirror?
That's the only relevant question.
Hey, I'm on your side, dude.
How are you getting upset with me?
I was talking to Hussein.
Sorry, I was talking to Hussein.
All right, go ahead.
You guys.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Okay, we've got the point across.
I want to go to the train.
I was trying to make a point.
Sorry, Hussein. I thought you were being interrupted that. Go ahead, Hussein.
Thank you.
Thank you, everyone, for the slander and for ad hominem.
I was trying to make a point, and then you went to my person.
If you think it's slander, you can sue me and we can get into your funding sources.
No, no, I'm not suing.
You didn't even know.
I would love for you to assume.
You went after my person, and that's straight ad hominem.
You probably know what ad hominem is.
No, you said that it was a slender and a defamation.
Can we let me say finish?
I don't know.
No, we have to do the disclosure and then he has to be truthful.
No, you have to disclose.
Everyone in this room will have to disclose then.
Was this a requirement?
That would be good.
We should all do that.
I'm going to disclose.
I'm going to disclose here.
Yeah, I will not.
Guys, guys, everyone's got their points across about Hussein.
Let him finish now.
Everybody, everybody's that room's headache.
Go ahead, Hussein, go ahead.
Go ahead.
Bottom left.
Please, nobody interrupt it now.
go ahead okay thank you i'll try one more time to make my point there was a significant uptick
in violence against israelis and if you think why that was happening you can compare that
to all the statements that you can read in arabic and farce from uh iranian officials and from
allies of iran
They were all calling for the outbreak of a third intifada.
Why is that?
Why is Iran interested in pushing the Palestinians for a third intifada?
Well, clearly because Iran is trying to build a military infrastructure in Syria,
and Israel is hitting on that infrastructure all the time.
Iran, as we know, is probably trying to build a nuclear weapon, and Israel might be also trying to
obstruct Iran from doing it.
So if you read statements, I'm sorry, James Ross.
So if you read statements from Iranian officials, not from me, you will find out that
that they think that they can counter Israeli offensive against them by agitating Palestinians.
Now ask yourself, how come this war Hamas is not participating?
How come this war is only with the Palestinian Islamic Jihad?
Don't make up stuff. There is no war.
What I mean this war I mean you know the the missiles that the rockets the Israeli there is no war there is there is a barbaric system of
Oppression domination and terror there's on the people of Gaza
I thought we weren't letting people interrupt people if you if you ask yourselves about the strikes and the counter strikes
How come that's happening how come Hamas is not involved in all of this? Well the answer is that the people who are involved in this are people who are
closest to Iran.
The people who are closest to Iran
in Gaza is the Palestinian Islamic Jihad.
And in the West Bank are the lions then.
And the reason why I mentioned the uptick in violence
is to say that Iran has been pushing these guys
to engage in more violence.
And this forces Israel to try to protect its citizens.
So that's why it went after the leaders of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad.
And so far it has taken out six of those.
So this is the reason.
I mean, you know, Khadr Adnan, fine, you know.
We can sit here and argue about him all the time.
But he was, you know, I mean, he's not the main issue.
There are dozens of Khadr-Nand that's happening.
I mean, I think the issue that we're not really focusing on being distracted from,
Israel is the occupying force holding Palestinians prisoner in their own country.
Palestinians are under martial law.
They have a separate legal system when they're arrested by Israel's security services.
To this day, under Article 40 of the Oslo Accords, Israel holds veto power over any Palestinian water matters.
This is the issue.
Hypothetically, let's say Gaza was full of militants.
Under international law, they're allowed to be militants.
They can defend themselves.
They can fight back.
They can build bombs.
They can be aggressors because they're fighting an occupation.
Right.
This is the reality.
You may not like where I'm hearing, but that's the fact.
There's no occupation in Gaza.
There are two organizations, too many.
It's surrounded.
Are they not checkpoints?
It has, it has seven miles of border.
Let's be disingenuous here.
Let's not be disingenuous.
There are checkpoints.
I was given, I was given permission to speak earlier and gave it to Hussain.
Could I please reclaim that?
Yes.
No, you can't.
You can't have two bows at it.
This is typical, isn't it?
You give it away and then you want it back.
Let him finish because he wants to go all around on the space.
No, no.
I said that he could speak first, but he is going on and on with his finest rank.
Ronnie, Ronnie, I'm so sorry.
I thought it was Jay.
Sorry, Ronnie, of course, yeah, I think you should take it back now because I'm bored of a saying anyway.
Well, it's funny.
Civil law, right, uh,
Anyway, guys, I've been trying to make a point.
Oh, sorry, wrap your point over 10, 15 seconds.
And you're just interrupting and ambushing.
And this is no way to end.
You pulled that an ambush?
You're saying seriously, man up.
How could you call that an ambush?
So anyway, anyway, you're speaking over me.
I'm not used to that.
Thank you very much.
That's it.
Good night.
Good night.
Go ahead, Ronnie.
Disclose your funding next time.
Okay, okay, guys, guys, guys.
Ronnie, go ahead.
Thanks. So I'm back here because some people asked me to come back. I left because I see this space as a Zionist mouthpiece.
Now, I trust that the moderators are not doing this on purpose, that they are well-meaning.
So I'm just giving you like kind of this, okay, this feedback for me, that so far the Zionists have been given far more time to speak.
They have not touched on anything other than their Zionist propaganda points,
which are all every single point that was made, including everything that Josein said,
who is a proper propaganda agent, by the way.
But every single point that they made is absolutely flawed, lies and propaganda.
And I can challenge every single thing that they said.
Now, I'd like to make a few points if I may.
Challenging and we'll challenge you.
About the actual situation.
first of all, there is no war, there is no conflict, there is a barbaric, brutal system of oppression that exists for the past 75 years.
Long before the occupation of 67, Gaza was built as a concentration camp in 48 to house the surplus humans that were ethnically cleansed from the NACAB area.
This is afterwards, obviously, since then, I mean, the situation in Gaza is beyond description.
Over 95% of the water is not potable. It is toxic.
Israel, the Israeli authorities, the Minister of Defense, has drafted formulas for counting the caloric intake for the people in Gaza.
They say that they haven't implemented it.
So let's give them the benefit of the doubt.
Let's assume that they haven't implemented it.
The counting the 2,200-something calories for each person.
Just the very fact that they go as far as counting caloric intake should tell you a little something about the extent to which they go and the Nazi-like mentality that is behind it.
And I repeat, this is a Nazi-like mentality.
Next.
Okay.
Israel is not defending itself.
The only time that actually Israel did not go on a,
the only war that Israel had,
which was not a war of choice,
was 1973, what's called Yom Kippur War.
That was the only time when they didn't happily go to war.
But besides, as when we regard Palestinians,
there was never a war with Palestinians.
There was never a conflict.
There is, as I said, a system of oppression, domination, and terror, which is racially ethnic-based,
which neatly falls under the legal definition of the crime of apartheid, as defined in the Rome Statue, 2002, which is a crime against humanity.
Israel also most probably also practices the crime of genocide when it relates to Gaza.
This is the situation. Israel is not even being attacked by these rockets, homemade rockets, more or less.
from Gaza, but let's assume, let's just assume, give the benefit of the doubt to these Zionists
who are speaking, you know, the whining people, Natalie and so on. Let's assume, give them the benefit
of the doubt that they are concerned about rockets falling, you know, on whatever, let's say,
around Tel Aviv. The, let's,
agree that there is Palestinian terror, but it is absolutely negligible compared to the level of Zionist terror, which is happening on a daily, hourly basis, with the numbers are just beyond any comparison.
And when we're talking about, it doesn't matter what massacre you're talking about, whether it's 2008-9, whether it's 2014, whether it's even the recent...
bombing of Gaza, the numbers are just out of the charts, off the charts when you compare
the casualties and the victims, the whatever, the raising to the ground entire neighborhoods
in Gaza and elsewhere versus, I don't know, a certain house that has been partly hit by a rocket
from Gaza.
Okay, so like the notion, so let me say it again, there is Palestinian terror, but it is absolutely negligible compared to Zionist terror, which is a matter of state policy, which is criminal barbaric, murderous, and which is a 24-7 issue, especially when we talk about Gaza.
I can go on and on if you want.
I mean, I don't want to take up too much time.
But discussing this or that technicality of a who called what for a ceasefire.
And, you know, it's like it's such a distraction from the issue.
The issue is that you have a...
one of the most barbaric and monstrous regimes
who is controlling the lives of 40 million Palestinians,
half of which are in forced exile for the past seven decades,
and we are marking 75 years to the Nakba as we speak tomorrow.
15th of May, okay?
That's what we are dealing with.
Okay, so I'll stop here.
I'll stop here.
Yeah, yeah, I just got a question for me.
Ronnie, just one second, guys.
I just want to ask questions Ronnie.
Ronnie, you know, in terms of this specific attack that happened,
Halisi told me that it was an operation
conducted by the IDF, I believe.
And they...
In that attack, I mean, I'm reading, and I could be wrong here, because I'm not looked into it in detail, that there was 37 people killed and there were women and children.
Now, all those women and children, basically random people, are the family members of the people who were those women and children who got, who were those women and children who got killed?
I obviously don't know who the women and children who got killed are, but there are women and children, as you mentioned, who got killed, quite a few, murdered. But let's talk about the numbers that I do know, just for reference, if I may, in 2014, in the 51-day massacre called Protective Edge, yet another operation, quote-unquote, protective edge.
and 551 children have been murdered.
89 families were obliterated, liquidated.
Entire families went to sleep, never woke up in the morning
during the 51 days of massacre.
If I remember correctly,
eight...
I think it is eight hospitals were completely demolished out of 17 hospitals that were partly damaged.
An entire neighborhood, the Shajaya neighborhood in Gaza, in Gaza, was raised to the ground under the Dachia doctrine, the criminal Dachia doctrine that the Tel Aviv University branch called INSS,
drafted to to explain why Israel is quote unquote legitimately using unproportional force
to raise to the ground entire neighborhoods.
And this is named after Dachya neighborhood in Lebanon, which was raised to the ground before.
They raised to the ground, the Shajaya neighborhood in Raza.
These are this is the situation.
So, I mean, and if I, if you give me a few, I don't know,
half an hour, I'll give you the exact details about the latest casualties.
I was just too busy to look into the figures until now.
I appreciate that. Thank you.
I'm going to go to Natalie, because you get your hand up Natalie,
and then I'll go to Charles.
Go ahead, Natalie.
Yeah, I was just screaming the whole way through that with his...
projection. It's complete always
Nazi this, genocide, that.
We all know what the Holocaust was.
Completely everything is projection.
How is Gaza in the open-air prison?
If there's Iranian rockets getting in,
if there's a border with Egypt.
What's Egypt doing? Why is their border shut?
Gaza's inside Israel, by the way,
just in case you didn't know it.
Yeah, you're right, Natalie.
So I'll tell you how the rockets get in.
Let me explain that.
And you are right about that credit where it's due.
So you've done your homework on this.
The rockets get in via tunnels.
There are some tunnels at the back of Gaza, and the rockets get in via those tunnels,
and periodically Israel goes in and bombs and destroys those tunnels.
So that's true.
Which is what Egypt or Egypt throws.
No, let me finish.
Let me finish.
Who was speaking?
Who was speaking?
It's Kaliti, because you asked two questions, and I'm going to say yes, you're right about the rocket.
No, I mean, who was speaking?
Did I ask you a question?
I was speaking.
No, but you're actually talking about something.
Here, about Egypt, you ask the question about Egypt and you're wrong and you're wrong about this.
Okay, I'll let you finish and then I'd like to come back on you.
Go ahead.
So Egypt putting their illegal chemical weapons down those tunnels.
Nobody talks about this.
Why?
There's terrorists coming out of Gaza into Egypt because I have Egyptian friends.
I ask them all the time.
This is where my sources are coming from.
into Egypt, starting terrorism there.
That's where all the Muslim Brotherhood came from,
tried to take over Egypt, got shut out of Egypt, thank God.
And then Hamas in their charter,
they are a subsidiary of Muslim Brotherhood.
And that's why we need to speak about the,
when Muhammad was being, not Muhammad, sorry,
when he's speaking about.
Don't forget to mention Iran as well.
Let's blame also other parties.
Well, it's proxy, it's Iranian proxies.
Natalie, I've got a question for you.
And continue on talking.
I thought Egypt was on Israel side that they get,
they're the second most funded country in the Middle East.
And the reason for that is basically in order to essentially fund
and support Israel and their borders.
Is that not the case, Natalie?
It is not, look at each of the wars, 1948, 67.
All the wars.
Where has Egypt been?
Natalie, I'm sorry, but you have no idea what you're talking about.
So this is the point I was going to correct you to save this from embarrassing yourself,
but you wanted to go ahead.
So, you know, what can I say?
Here's the thing.
America funds Israel, and after Israel, it gives billions to Sisi, which is the propped-up
dictator in Egypt to keep the
rougher border closed. People
cannot go in Egypt, they cannot come out of
Egypt. The only thing that gets in is rockets.
With the exception of rockets, their water is
poison, their agriculture is destroyed.
Even if you're dying, you cannot come out, and
that is an open-air prison. Somebody on
this place has actually been to Gaza, and it was
Carol Bo who's on this space, right?
So I wanted to save you from
embarrassing yourself going on about Egypt,
but now that you have...
What about the chemical weapons that they're using
down the time? Where are you getting
that from? I mean, is it... I can put it on my... I've seen it many times. I can put it on my...
I've seen it many times. I can put it in the chat or tag Soleiman in it so I can fact-check that
because that's nonsense. I'll tell you why. I will 100%. On the nationality. When you say chemical
weapons, I don't suppose you mean the white phosphorus that Israel is dropping on Gaza, right? Exactly.
She's probably confused, Ronnie. She's probably confused. No, it's not. It is straightforward
Egypt and I will get it and I'll put it in.
No, no. I'm sorry what you said, Natalie, because...
And Cushare is not chemical weapon.
Clarify it as someone from Gaza.
One second, one second, guys.
I'm just, Natalie, I'm just surprised on what you're saying
because in the previous Israel and Palestine space,
we actually had somebody from Egyptian intelligence
who was basically backing up Israel.
And the reason why Egypt is the second most funded...
country in the United States and Israel is the first is because of that very reason.
So I'm surprised what you said.
But Charles probably has more information on this.
Charles, please explain.
Yeah, sure.
I think it's important to talk about why many of the people who are pushing the Lakud narrative.
By the way, it's not the Israeli narrative.
We should be clear about that because there's lots of Israelis who are protesting
what's been going on with the Netanyahu criminal Netanyahu government.
But just to be clear about this.
I wouldn't forget to say you know.
Okay, great. Cool.
You know, Gansa started his campaign.
Benny Gantz's campaign started some years ago with the numbers rolling on the screen and that was how many people he murdered in Gaza as a military
I wouldn't necessarily say the other video the other video was about bringing Gaza back to the Stone Age
I will I will retract here and see that dr. Hatem is here so he can he can
given the right to speak you're not wrong you're not wrong Ronnie but if I could reclaim my time um
So just very briefly, the way to understand this is that the way it currently works is that a lot of the Israeli influence in the United States is such that we go and we sanction various countries.
And those countries in turn go and provide discounted oil to China.
So you can see that with the Israeli lobby pushing for the sanctions on Venezuela, with the sanctions that were placed on Iran.
And then in turn, what happens is they prop up various Jewish oligarchs.
among them the late Sheldon Adelson, who was a very large supporter of Netanyahu's government.
So there's a kind of like situation that happens where you have this black, this sort of black market oil, black market resources.
In the past, you know, people like, you know, Mark Rich and others that were more connected with like Mossad and kind of those operations used to run those, that kind of thing.
But of course, those groups were, there's sort of internal conflicts within Israel.
Right.
Which is, of course, what we also saw where Jeffrey Epstein was detained and then later killed in an American prison.
So there's a lot more going on here than I think people really want to talk about.
And one of the problems that a lot of the Israeli types have in here and a lot of the Lekud activists have in here is that they know that I'm actually telling the truth because...
For many years, I was a federal informant.
It's in legal filings.
It's known.
I monitored a lot of the Israeli activity within the Trump White House
and filed a number of reports on that to federal law enforcement.
And indeed, some of the federal law enforcement people that were compromised
have since been fired or going to jail or those sorts of things.
So I just want to be clear, like, to a lot of people who are pushing back against the occupation
in the Palestinian territories.
A lot of us have also been victims by these Israeli hacking operations,
by these Israeli intelligence operations,
and that many of us are pushing back on it.
And I personally have talked to very close personal friends of both Hunter Biden
and President Biden, and he very much understands these issues
and takes them very seriously.
So I think we're going to see more and more pressure.
And just one final point.
Just want to wrap up in 10 seconds.
I could very quickly.
Yes, so very quickly.
One thing to understand about Netanyahu is that he has a long, long, long track record.
He's written a lot. He's said a lot. He's done a lot.
And there's all sorts of things he said about September 11th, which I won't kind of go into detail on here, but people can look it up.
He was quite happy about September 11th, speaks for itself.
And if you look at it from the perspective here,
I think I think Kaleisi is quite right about the knock about issues we had Bernie Sanders, you know, come out and and talk about as a Jew, like how dangerous this whole, this whole issue of how we sort of overly defer to Israeli interests in the United States. So there are there are things happening in the U.S. pushing back against this kind of thing. And when we look at the rocket attacks, what we have here is we have
There was a deliberate decision to attack, you know, in this particular conflict, and then a whole bunch of rockets fired back.
And then advisories came out telling all the Israeli protesters who are protesting this illegal government, the Netanyahu government, to stay home.
Now, if you don't think that that helped, you know, Bibi Netanyahu, you've got another thing coming.
And just to accurately quote you, right?
So you do disavow in your 2017 statement saying that the gas chambers were not real, right?
I just want to make sure that you disavow that.
Let's play this game in these spaces.
We don't really know who he is.
Maybe he's part of Team Jorge.
Actually, no, Suleimanos way, and so is Mario.
So does Mario.
But I was the federal informant at the time.
And I was a federal prosecutor.
So I just would like you to disavow your 2017 statements saying that the gas chamber was.
One second, guys. One second, guys.
Sorry, sorry, sorry.
I do apologize.
I'm a meeting you because I know we want to go to Dr. Hatton for like 10 minutes before he needs to leave.
So Dr. Hatton, thanks for joining us.
Please, we would love to hear your thoughts on this issue.
Well, thank you for having me.
I just finished a Nakhbek commemoration event in San Francisco.
And I think it's very important for us to contextualize what is taking place.
Zionism rose as a result of collaboration and accepting to be a junior partner.
in european at the time and then later on american interventionist
and to be a junior partner in settler colonialism herzell himself
when he wrote to see so rhodd he said why do i turn to you to such a matter
because it is something colonial
and we have been living this uh...
european zionist
experiment that is directly affecting the lives and well-being of Palestinians from the
get-go.
Just in 1917, when the British promised Palestine, they did not have the right to promise
that which they did not.
They don't own nor they had the right to, but Britain was a settler colonial state that it is.
It was a state that the sun never sat upon, and we say thank God that now Great Britain no longer sees much of the sun.
They have to go down to Greece to get a sun tan.
But we are still in 1948, 750,000 Palestinians were expelled ethnically cleansed, 541 villages,
eight urban centers, and some would say 12 urban centers that were completely ethnically cleansed.
And this was systematically done.
If you want to take Benny Morris, and he says that you can't make an omelet with a
without cracking eggs.
I guess Benny Morris, as a slow intellect, did not realize that he's admitting to ethnic cleansing and genocide
because those eggs that he cracked to make the state that it is, these were Palestinians, these were civilians, these were civilians, these were people that lived in villages towns across.
And then it's also normative in history of colonization is to completely erase and demonize the population that has been subjugated to this colonial project.
It is, you know, people tend to try to say it's complicated.
There's nothing complicated about settler colonialism.
There is nothing complicated of using manifest destiny religious text to say that God,
you know, called us into taking your land.
Well, you never ask whether those people that you took their land
is actually have the same conceptualization of God,
including Jewish Palestinians that rejected the overture of the Zionist movement
when Herzl himself appealed to the Palestinians.
the palestinian jewish population at the time to join this project
so this notion of erasure
is part and parcel of this
that demonization is part and parcel and
and the violence that's been committed is also every colonial project
gets to be established and maintained by means of violence.
That's why I disagree with Vladimir Vladymaudovetsky.
He was honest, straightforward.
He says that you have to have a garrison.
You have to have an iron wall.
And you have to have a benefactor that provides you the iron wall and the guns and the weapons in order to render resistance.
impossible otherwise he said i am done with colonization so all of that
main figures in uh... the modern
articulation of dimes and work committed to violence against the palestinians
and i see that people are complaining about palestinian resistance and i will
I'm always considering in terms of civilian's death and so on,
but where are the Israelis that will call for complete end for their militarization,
that Israel as a military that has a non-stop constant change,
killing and maiming of Palestinians, whether from 1948 all the way into Gaza today.
Gaza population, for those who are listening, these are 90% of them were actually expelled,
driven down, ethnically cleansed from their villages, towns, and homes to end up in Gaza
and continue to face the...
assault of the settler colonial project that came to be the state of Israel today, and it's
nonstop.
And to try to turn around, I compared always to our black and indigenous population here
in America.
Every time that there is a black community that is attempting to try to assert itself, we
begin to speak about what about...
black wine. This is a diversion, a red herring, rather than dealing with the causes that bring crime into the cities, that brings crime into the community, we begin to speak and rationalize white supremacy that makes this condition in a similar way.
Every time that there is an assault on Palestinians, let me very clear.
And here, very clear, Israel started this round again, which is always the case, and then they complain about the Palestinians' response.
In Arabic, we say, Darabni wakka, Sabaniwesh tacha.
He struck me and began crying, and then jumped ahead and began to complain, therefore I am the guilty party.
So this notions of the systematic process of both...
rationalizing the colonization of Palestine using a religious cover for it and using violence
is almost constitutive part of this settler colonization that Palestinians are facing.
To come into a larger question, which is a larger question, is that why is the Western world
is constantly silent? Why is Europe silent? Why is the United States silent? And increasing
why the Arab world, we are still living in a world that has been shared by the post-World
1 structure, as well as the victors of World War II. So when we talk about international law,
I often label it as colonial legalism. The victors of World War I and World War II that
made the legal structure, and they view Israel as a success case for their consideration.
And we could add to it in here all of this millenarian end-of-time scenario that you have all these, you know, churches and individuals that basically think that God is disliked.
beating the drums, thinking for the end of time, not knowing that they essentially are rationalizing
a project that has been birthed and brought into fruition over the past 100 years.
So when we speak about the silence, because at the core of it, they don't see the Palestinians
as humans. We don't mourn Palestinians. In the same way, we don't warn Iraqis. We don't mourn
Afghans. We did not mourn the Vietnamese.
We still have not known today or in the past how many Vietnamese have been killed in the same way that how many Iraqis have been killed or how many Afghans have been killed.
Why? Because they belong to the level of unbeing.
And again, the being and unbeing, all of those who in the global south, the darker complexion you are, you are destined to die, namely,
faceless in the middle of a complete assault from those who inhabit the world of being in the
global north and then you are complaining if you actually have been at the temer.
Dr. Hatten.
Yeah, but that's again my reflections on the Nakba at this point in terms of just responding
to some of these things that we're listening to.
Rihanna, brilliant.
Just a quick question.
Do you know much about what's happening with the ceasefire?
the current sea fire.
I was on the demonstration, so I didn't know exactly the development.
But again, ceasefire is a part and parcel of the dynamics of the structure in there.
So Egypt, Israel, United States, they are maintaining the,
pain of the Palestinians. We are not
asking for a ceasefire. We're asking for an
end of colonization. We're asking for opening the border. We're asking
for people's freedom of movement. We're asking for the implementation of the
Convention. We're asking for war crimes to be implemented. We're asking for
adherence to uh... the uh... conventions that have been so passed but
completely erase the palestinians as being used for the
phosphorus have been used on the palestinians in gaza where are the
international community again i speak about
we have here the Sierra Club that there isn't a tree that they love to hug,
including some of my students hug a tree.
But how about Palestinians have been facing almost 5,000 olive trees have been completely assaulted and attacked.
So even if you don't like the Palestinians, have some words for the trees.
and they have this whole project of planting the trees in Palestine
while cutting Palestinian trees on a daily basis.
So again, the ceasefire is, again, is another red herrings.
It becomes a debate about whether the sea fire, who did what was.
No, we are dealing with the systematic and continued assault on the Palestinian,
continued erasure, continued pain and suffering and continued targeting of civilians.
There is nothing incidental about the so-called
what is called collateral damage.
There is nothing collateral when you have the systematic surveillance of Palestinian.
You know their homes.
You know who lives there.
You know how many civilians are there?
You know how many kids?
Which streets they are?
Complete total surveillance of the Palestinians.
So when you hit a missile that you know 10 civilians are going to die,
that is a war crime that is no longer, quote, unquote, a collateral damage.
Thank you for that, Dr. Hartam. I do appreciate your time as well. I know you were short. You had a shot in time. So I appreciate that. Please stay on and then you can join in another discussion. Ariel, I know you had your hand up. You wanted to come back on that. Go ahead, Ariel.
Yes, thank you. I changed my headset, so I hope it's...
Yes, thank you.
So I would like to refer to the things we heard.
We are hearing many superlative, but we have no receipt.
So when our speakers talk about pushback.
and none of those activists.
Nobody knows their picture, nobody knows Mr. Charles in Israel.
I just check with my colleagues.
So maybe some sort of back check or checking the reference
before our speakers tell us that they are coming from the Trump administration.
from the White House and informers,
too much information,
especially when on the notes,
nobody knows you,
not informer and not in any kind of information
that you never had.
by the what you just said you have no evidence you have no information we have that
if you want to ask ask we will give you the information everything is public but
don't mislead our listeners because we need to appreciate their time
Now, in Gaza, there's a picture I just posted on myself.
Charles, give me a favor.
I have no way I argument with you.
I'm not doing, yes, conspiracy inside.
Ariel, Ariel, one second.
I don't know what he wants.
He was.
It's true.
Listen.
Once, one second, guys.
Let Ariel finish.
I'll come back to Charles.
It is true, though, Ariel.
What he's saying?
He was a federal informant.
That is true.
Ariel. How were you able to speak when I'm muted you?
Zaya's conspiracy, buddy.
Hasborough helping him? Never mind.
Ariel, Ariel, go ahead.
I will go ahead.
Somehow Ben was the only one of the talk.
By the way, for what it's worth.
Good time talking about my friends in the Yair Lepid government.
And what are we talking about, Charles.
Let me finish, and then you will tell all about your friendship with Yair Lepid.
People can see the picture up on top.
I'll hear what you will have to say.
I promise you, okay?
Just a moment.
The issue that we are facing is that in Gaza...
some people using children and women as a human shield and this is a big problem
you didn't seriously say that right now can I finish whether your evidence
for that area oh my god can I finish what I listen I
One second, guys.
Let Ariel finish.
But Ariel, like you said, you do have the evidence for all of this.
So if you can give us the evidence.
Yes, it's good.
I hope you understand how ridiculous this discussion is.
No, this is not ridiculous.
If you let me finish.
It is, it is.
It is ridiculous.
I hear your accent.
Look, everyone keeps interrupting.
I understand that what he's saying.
You want to, you want a fact checked.
I appreciate that.
Ariel, if you can provide me with the evidence for that and we can put it up there.
So open till everything.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay, okay. Of course, of course.
We're...
We are talking about an egoistic celebration, and this is not something that we can cope with.
Why? Because this crying is, we call it, an alligator tears.
Why is that? Because everyone that hides behind children and shooting from the center of civilization, a populated area, okay?
He's a war criminal and a murderer.
especially when he knows that the army, we shoot back to the sources where they shot from, right?
So you are risking your own child as a human shield.
Okay.
I'm going to let you carry on.
Don't worry.
So are you saying that this attack where the Operation Shield and Arrows, I think it was called?
Yes.
This was that Palestinians were hiding behind children and then they just had to initiate this operation.
I don't understand what you're saying.
Yes, what I'm saying to you firstly, that if you're shooting from a populated area.
No, but if you're doing an operation, just a moment, just a moment.
I'll explain.
The issue is like this.
If you are shooting bombs...
No country, let's say the United States, somebody is firing missiles on the United States.
Nobody will allow it.
Not any kind of rational country will accept this violation of their sovereignty, of their security.
Nobody will allow that.
Okay, so if you are sitting inside the populated, highly populated, because you know that
Gaza is the most populated city on earth, right?
Prison, prison is the way you're looking for, aerial prison, prison.
Populated, we are talking about now mathematics.
Perpulated business, yeah.
Let me speak.
Sorry, that contradict what the IDF said.
Let me speak.
Can I finish what I...
Excuse me, Sliman's question is important exactly as your question.
Let me finish, please.
He asked me something, okay?
Now we are talking on the most populated area on earth.
If you're shooting from inside the most populated area, you are a war criminal, okay?
Because you know that the Israeli army, the IDF, will defend.
So they will shoot back from when they got shot at, right?
This is simple as that.
So you are a war criminal.
And when you are sending children under 18,
with a knife against an armed soldier,
You are a war criminal too, and a murderer.
Because you know that...
Who says that, Ariel?
Who is the war criminal?
Can I think...
Aero, you're absolutely right.
You're absolutely right.
Because you...
Just a moment.
Let me finish, please.
A few more sentences and I'm finishing.
No, no, you're right.
Let Ariel finish, guys.
Let Ariel.
Yes, is it so hard.
Only if you are...
I'm always doing it short.
Okay, you know that this child that is attacking with a knife,
an armed soldier, a well-trained soldier,
and he's trying to kill him with a knife,
what do you think that will happen?
This is absurd.
The ones that are putting these suicidal thoughts
in these children and in these men
that are rushing to kill their own lives,
destroying the whole lives, destroying their future, there are the war criminals.
And you can't, you can't say there's a fundamental right of every one of us to defend itself,
even if you are in another state, in your own state, whatever.
If somebody attacks you, if I have a second.
Yes.
Yes, please.
Okay, so Muhammad, I want to bring you in here.
Mohammed, two questions.
One, I mean, Ariel, I'm waiting for you to send us the evidence about the knife.
If you can send me that and that'll attach it.
And the second evidence is whatever you said that you're going to give evidence.
So I can't remember where it was now.
But, Mohammed, my question to you is, from what I understand that these current strikes that started in five days ago...
was unprovoked.
Like there wasn't some attack on that there was a response.
This was a targeted attack,
alleged target attack from Israel,
where people were killed.
Is that the case?
Am I misunderstanding what happened here?
Because I keep hearing like this was a response
from the Israeli side and then from the other side
is no it wasn't.
So I want you to clarify because I know you're from Gaza.
What was this?
Was this a...
direct attack from Israel first or was did something happen like just before that where there was some some some some rockets being fired and then they responded go ahead Mohammed
Sure, but what was your other question? I just answer that one. I mean the knife one is probably I'm going for error to send me the evidence and then I can ask you
Yeah, absolutely so with this escalation as I said after Hadar adnan died in prison denied medical treatment
The P.I.J retaliated to that. And then Israel struck multiple targets in Gaza, and then Egypt and Qatar broke a ceasefire between the two.
Everything back to quiet. And Israeli minister, Aetimha Vinqvier, said that he would boycott Medinahu's government and not attend any cabinet meetings unless they go and deal a crushing blow to Gaza.
He was literally egging for war and death and destruction.
And then a week later, these targeted precision airstrikes hit Gaza, killing three PAJ members, but along with 10 civilians, four kids, six women, a medical doctor.
And in these airstrikes, as you said, it was entirely unprovoked a violation of a ceasefire agreement between Israel and the PIAJ, and it did not serve much of a security value.
It was mainly to satisfy Bindvir and get him back into the government.
Other colleagues here have expanded more on the motives and possible analysis of the reasons for these airstrikes and aggression.
But the other thing in terms of Gaza, let's say about the human shields very quickly,
I talked to breaking the silence in Israeli human rights organization that collects testimonies
from soldiers who went inside Gaza and invaded it, engaged in direct combat with Hamas and
PIJ.
And I talked to people from Amnesty International, from Human Rights Watch and the United Nations.
None of them found any evidence.
There was zero evidence that any Palestinian factions have used Palestinian civilians as human sheeds.
It's even unthinkable that any Palestinian faction would take a fellow Palestinian at a gunpoint and survive it politically.
There would be enormous backlash in the streets against that.
On the other side, Israel, according to breaking the silence, Amnist International, Zbitt Salem, Human Rights Watch, UN, Israel has an extensive, widespread and systematic use of Palestinians as human shields.
what the IDF refers to as the neighbor protocol.
The Israeli Supreme Court outloaded in 2004, but the practice continued.
One prominent example was in 2009.
Back when Israel launched a war on Gaza, Operation Kasklid, I was in the neighborhood that Israel invaded at the end of the war, Telil Hawa.
And they forced a nine-year-old at gunpoint at the threat of machine guns to go and open potentially booby-trapped bags and boxes to inspect them.
There's really Supreme Court sentenced two soldiers to a suspended sentence or never jailed, never punished for it.
So that I think is complete nonsense.
It's also a very racist stereotype that Palestinians have no value to their lives and no agency.
The other thing with rockets, Iranian rockets that was mentioned earlier,
In Gaza, all of the projectiles are, or the great majority of them, are homemade, improvised projectiles.
There's no supply of actual rockets coming from Iran or otherwise.
And with the Egyptian borders, it keeps popping up.
What about Egypt? What about Egypt?
Egypt has a border crossing with Gaza, that's the Raffa border crossing, and I will conclude very briefly, sorry for taking too much time.
But Raffa is actually open since 2019, 2018.
In 2021, Egypt declared opening it permanently.
You can see the headlines from Rotars at the time and CNN and others.
And the Egyptians, despite opening it for passenger movement, they remain bound by Israeli security concerns that were imposed in the 2005 agreement on movement.
You can look it up and read the conditions.
But the conditions of the agreement give Israel basically a right to veto any Palestinian passengers.
So basically, if any Palestinian that wants to travel through Egypt, the Egyptians have a database provided by the Israelis on people that are blacklisted or security threats as they are designated.
Then Egypt has to take proper action accordingly.
The other thing about Rafah is that foreigners are not allowed into Gaza through Rafah per this agreement.
foreigners can go only through the West Bank, sorry, through Ears, the Ears border crossing, the Israeli crossing with Gaza.
And Israel does not allow any in.
It's only people working for international organizations or journalists, credited journalist, international media.
or diplomats, and these are also very restricted, very limited exceptions.
I find it very perplexing with the denial of the blockade and the siege on Gaza.
When respected Israeli sociologist, Baruch Kimmerling, from the Hebrew University,
said as early as 2003 that Gaza is, quote, the largest concentration camp that ever existed.
That was literally verbatim what he said.
And one of the people here mentioned that I concluded this sentence.
Yes.
Sorry.
I will finish with this sentence precisely.
Sorry.
So one of the people here mentioned that he's a, yeah,
Binnie Gans voter.
Well, Binnie Gans is not ashamed to say that Gaza is under a very, very strict siege.
If you look at a statement he made in 2021, he says, and I quote verbatim, we will not allow any real development in Gaza, any real economic development.
He goes on and says, we're not animals.
We're not like Hamas.
We will allow them food and drinks,
but we will not allow any real development in Gaza.
That's verbatim what he's saying.
So guys, Kim...
So Lamar, can I just say one thing to you, and this is important and this is for you.
So whilst we're providing you with fact-checked evidence from human rights organizations validated,
Ariel's posting TikTok videos in the nest.
Ariel TikTok videos are not proof of what you've just said.
They could be from days ago.
So I would like those TikTok videos that Ariel spam the nest with you.
That's not evidence, Ariel.
TikTok videos from random people.
This is evidence.
No, it's...
no evidence
TikTok videos
anything
is in the
news
this is nonsense
Alicia
your
sounds like
the FBI
Really? Okay, well, you sound like the IOS permanently.
Ariel, listen, we have to, TikTok videos are not evidence.
It's ridiculous that you make broad statements on this space
and when you're asked for evidence.
You don't like the evidence?
This is not good evidence.
I mean, that's not evidence.
Only, memorizing text, this is better.
Ariel, oh my God.
One second.
Ariel, so an example of evidence is, which I'll read out now, which Kim just sent me.
And Kim just sent me evidence saying, and this is United Nations.
A United Nations human rights body accused Israel forces on Thursday of mistreating Palestinian children,
including by torturing those in custody and using others as human shields.
So according to your definition, those would be war criminals.
If I could also just jump in.
Yeah, sure.
Sure, sure.
Yeah, absolutely.
So, yeah.
Are you're absolutely right. I'll take up your points in turn. So firstly, you're absolutely right. What country would tolerate being attacked, you know, being controlled by an other person? For example, Ukraine. Why would Ukraine tolerate being occupied by foreign power? And that same rule applies to Palestine. They shouldn't tolerate being occupied by anyone, period. And secondly, you made the point about human shields. Well,
If you, as an Israeli, I imagine you may have served in the ID.
The idea, for years, it's okay.
Your officer will tell you, it's okay to use a Palestinian child as a human shield.
If it gets, if you're successful, if you're accepting.
And furthermore, when it, when it.
That's a compulsive lie.
Why are you lying, King?
It's not alive because he's given the evidence.
It's on, it's on, it's on.
Well, well.
Just out.
In the next, right next to your TikTok video there.
Right next to your TikTok video.
Human shields are a matter of policy in the Israeli terror forces.
I can send you the proof if you want.
Exactly.
That's interesting to you.
That's right.
Operating over Syria, they were using civilian aircraft to mask their radar.
They were literally using civilian aircraft as human shields before they dropped
bonds in Syria. Don't give us
moral lessons on what Israel does. That's ridiculous.
Who are you talking
about? You.
Listen, this
is complete fairy tales.
Sleman, I'm telling you
there. If you want to
have an effective conversation,
we can't, this is a
conscure. Guys, everybody's talking
over each other. One second, Ariel,
just please listen to what I'm saying. If you look on the
net above,
I'm just going to, I mean, it's just been, there's a lot on there, so let me just get to it.
Let me just delete some of the stuff that people have got on there so you can see it straight away.
I think the dozen TikTok videos, Silamant.
There's just so much on here.
But anyway, Kim's, I can't even find it now.
Yeah, Kim's one, if you look at it, it's three across or four across.
And Crims 1 says from the United Nations aerial.
So you know what you're saying when you're saying it's a lie?
But then I'm just reading here.
I've not seen this before.
I don't know anything about it.
And it says,
United Nations,
humans' right body accused Israel forces on Thursday
on mistreating Palestinian children,
including...
torturing those in custody and using others as human shields.
So that's from the United Nations,
sorry, human rights body.
So obviously, if you've got evidence that counters that
or has evidence for something else,
so please go ahead.
Obviously, not TikTok videos,
but if you've got something to annihilation.
I'll send that too, you know.
i said that to your d ariel no no you're not listening so something from the united nations because
anyone can record the tic-tock-tok video and present a in a sense united nation is a political
aerial aerial and and israelis can do that every you understand that don't i think no no what i'm
saying what i'm saying is the the u.n which i'm a participating is part of it i
I'm telling you that the UN is a political body.
But they don't really want to...
I mean, I came to finish, go ahead, Aramette.
It's not that they really want to help someone.
If you think that you will get anything from the United Nations,
I'm coming back from them and I'm telling you, they are no help.
But you can always try your chances, you know.
But then the problem there is Ariel, you're able to try.
Listen, I'm telling you the truth.
You can experience your own.
It's okay.
Let's move on.
Let's listen to Ariel.
Right, guys, too many people are talking.
I want to go to Iran.
Have I just say something about United Nations really quickly, because I think it's really important.
The point that Ariel made, it is a political body Ariel.
Do you know who the biggest funder of the United Nations is?
It's the United States of America.
Now, I personally think that all five, Hussein, who was here, he talked a lot of nonsense,
but one thing he did say was about the power of veto.
Five countries have the power of veto of the United Nations.
I disagree.
I think no country should have the power of veto because they should all be equal.
Now, here's the thing, because people say this, and I've heard you say this area,
you were on our space a few days ago as well.
that the United Nations is anti-Israel.
Yet every single, every single resolution that any country brings
for Israel's human rights atrocities,
the United States vetoes, including one two days ago,
So whether it's a political body, it doesn't matter.
The fact is that after 75 years for the first time on Monday,
the UN who's probably really frustrated that they can't hold Israel to account
because Israel disregards any law, including international law,
is going to celebrate Nakabar.
And they're sticking to that so far, and I hope they do it on Monday,
because that's where they're standing their ground,
because they can't take any action,
and people are now calling out the United Nations to say,
what would I do a talking about?
Can I answer that?
You don't want an answer?
Let's move on.
Let's move on.
Okay.
Go ahead.
Okay, let's go to Ronnie then and I'm going to go to Alt.
Okay. So what?
Ariel, I had to suffer your bullshit for long enough. Can I talk, please?
Go ahead, running.
Okay.
Let's start quickly.
I shared a little video about how Israeli soldiers are attacking a hospital and taking a patient in the hospital as a human shield just for you to see.
It's on video.
You can look at it.
And this is, I mean, but this is a matter of policy.
a proper policy by the Israeli army,
and I can find the exact reference for you if you're interested.
Besides...
Every main, excuse me, I'm speaking, every main military base, especially the command and control center, which is in Tel Aviv, also liberal Tel Aviv, is situated adjacent to the main hospital, the business center with offices and mall, the
near the museum adjacent to the museum to the court there are tunnels connecting between the hospital and the military base
this is the same military base that is responsible for all the massacres that are happening in gaza that is you know where you have the prime minister office where they come up the ministry of defense that is counting the caloric intake for gaza and all of that
obviously residential buildings around.
This is how Israel is situating its military basis,
but not only that.
It is also situating its weapons caches,
like weapon arsenals, whatever,
near Palestinian villages in the north,
what are called a,
like Palestinian citizens of Israel, yeah, like 48ers, for example, in the north, they are situating them purposely their weapons nearby Palestinian villages because they know that, you know, if they assume that basically say if there will be some attempt to target these weapons.
places where weapons are being stored, you know, those who will be targeting them don't want to blow up the neighbor.
We know that they don't mind to put our children as a ship, so there will be care about to shooting their own people.
What are you talking about?
I'm just giving you the facts here, okay?
You do with it whatever you want.
Now, let's carry on.
But you don't.
What else?
Again, the whole issue of the specific ceasefire or no ceasefire,
like Dr. Hatham Bezian said a moment ago,
the whole ceasefire is yet another part of the policy of oppression.
Okay, I don't, it doesn't really matter what has been decided.
But regardless...
None of it is done without the absolute control by the Zion estate.
And, you know, like kind of, there's clearly one side that is in control.
There is one side that is bombing the hell of people that is denying them their basic rights.
As I mentioned before, either 7 million Palestinians are under either subjugated,
single-class citizens under military occupation.
living in a concentration camp where even there, they have no access to even clean water or
electricity most of the day, or the other half of the Palestinians cannot even go back to Palestine
simply because they were born into the wrong ethnic racial category. This is the situation.
Ronnie, can I ask you a question on that? Because you mentioned something last time, and I couldn't
fully remember. You mentioned that...
And I did ask somebody afterwards, and they were saying, it's not like that.
So I said,
our next time, Ronnie's on Spice, I need to ask him.
So essentially, you mentioned that there was like four categories of citizens in the Israel,
and some have more rights than others.
Did I remember that right?
Or if you can explain that.
Yes, yes.
So...
Two things. First of all, there's several nationalities among Israeli citizens, because the whole system was built, the whole apartheid system was built in 1948 in order to give privileges to people of Mai and Ariel's ethnic background at the expense of all the others, the indigenous Palestinians.
And what's your ethnic background?
So, I mean, like, what is regarded by the state as?
Citizenship equals Israeli, nationality equals Jewish.
Not because I define myself as Israeli or Jewish.
This is the way that the state defines me, and by law, I am privileged.
By law, I have certain rights that other citizens of that state do not have, because they don't have nationality equals Jewish.
They have nationality equals Arab or Circassian or Druze.
besides, so they are subjugated second-class citizens and I can go on and on about the more than 50 discriminatory laws and you can find them in the Adala website.
Can you give me one example?
There's a data for discriminatory laws. Sorry, what?
Can you give me an example of something that you have a privilege, which somebody else wouldn't because they're in that secondary class lesson?
Yes, of course. But before that, I'll just say that from the very first day, Libby's life,
From the very first day of a baby's life, one gets citizenship in Israel under different laws,
depending on whether their parents are privileged Israeli Jews or Israeli citizens who are not among the privileged group.
The privileged Israeli Jews, their baby, gets citizenship under the law of return, even though they haven't returned anywhere.
The others get citizenship by residence.
under a different law. Okay, so from the very first step of a baby's life, there is, they walk two
different paths in the legal, in the Israeli legal system. And I'm talking about Israel proper. I'm
talking about what, what you guys would call Israel. Israel in Palestine, the exact same place, so
I would don't differentiate. But, um, uh,
there is no Israel and Palestine.
It's the exact same space, the exact same place.
But Israel proper, that criminal apartheid state, it differentiates between its citizens from the very first day.
Now, you ask, for example, access to land, okay?
Who can buy, who can purchase state land?
There's all sorts of rights that are regarded as national rights.
I'll have to explain again how the system works.
There's citizenship rights for the citizens, yeah?
For the citizens under apartheid.
There's citizenship rights and then there's national rights.
Citizenship rights are afforded to all the citizens, including the underprivileged ones.
National rights are for one and only one group of people and the national rights are the important ones.
And that includes access to land, basically purchasing all that and so on.
access to all kinds of things.
You know, it's enough to give you an example
that there was not a single
township, basically
a town or something like that, within
48, within what is regarded as Israel,
that has been built since 1948.
Some of them have been expanded, but not a single new one
has been built, while obviously many, many
Jewish towns were built at the same time.
But I will refer you to the database about discriminatory laws with more than 50 such laws,
which is the Adala website, ADA-N-A-H.
I appreciate that. Thank you.
I just wanted to ask your question.
I just wanted to ask your question.
If you don't mind, yeah. I mean, obviously, I stay quiet on this topic. Like, right? Like, I'm an American. I have no dog in this fight. I'm not Jewish. I'm not, you know. Oh, come on, come on. Well, wait, no. Like, just bear with me.
I think he means a U.S. Sunday. You absolutely have a dog in this fight. If you're an American. Absolutely, you do. And those of us who are Americans have a duty to just to finish. Can you let them finish?
Charles, but I get it.
But like, what it's like I just want to hear both sides.
Like I'm actually genuinely interested.
And so like I actually have a question because I was actually laughed at by some
Palestinian that I worked with.
They were finance directors along with myself.
And I asked them.
I remember asking them.
This was not too recent.
It was four years ago.
And I asked him, and they said they were from Palestine, and I asked him, I said, my God, like, what was it like living, you know, in Palestine?
It sounds horrendous. And they looked at me like I was being rude, like I was being like just like an asshole.
And I was like, well, I don't understand. Like, what do you mean? They're like, my family still lives there.
Like, everything's fine. Like, what are you talking about? And so I try to listen to these debates because I don't understand, right?
I don't live there. I don't understand. And so I say I don't have a dog in this fight is because I'm
actually understand. So I hear from some of the right factions in Israel. I hear from some of the
left factions in Israel. I hear from pro-Palestine. There are no left factions. Again, there are no
left factions in Israel. All Zionists are racist and supremacists.
Roni, you are a terrorist, a well-known terrorist in the United Kingdom. You were being
prosecuted and were held in a jail inside Bristol, right?
So don't come and tell us for what you did.
You're a terrorist.
You are written terrorist in the list.
Why are you not coming to Israel?
You Israeli citizenship.
Why are you afraid to come to Israel?
Maybe he's not as well.
One second, guys.
Let Ronnie respond to this.
Go ahead, Ronnie.
I love how design is out of the woodwork.
This is so much fun.
We need Zionists.
We're not going to expose themselves for what they really are.
We do it.
Bring it off.
No, no.
When I say Zainis, I mean Zylaman, may I speak?
Don't call me Zionist.
I'm Jewish who live in Israel.
I'm Israeli Jewish.
Don't call me Zionists.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay.
So, um...
Part in an action to stop crimes against humanity that are carried out by Elbit
systems, which is Israel's largest arms manufacturer, which is not only producing
a rifles and white phosphorus and classroom munitions,
and all sorts of horrible murder machines,
not only that they produce most of the unmanned aerial vehicles
that are used by the Israeli terror forces in Gaza and elsewhere.
They have been flying these machines during the 51 day of massacre in Gaza
when 551 children were murdered, where 989 families have been liquidated.
Elbit systems have been flying these drones while the Israeli Air Force was bombing the bombs.
So I took action along with others in the UK to shut down such a factory, actually the headquarters of Elbit systems in the UK.
And I'm proud of that.
And I'm very happy to go to court and take Elbe to court with me.
So what is your problem again?
So Ronnie, another question.
He said, you are.
Ronnie, Ronnie, one second, Ronnie, one second, Ronnie, quick question.
They're saying, all true news said that you are afraid to come to Israel.
Is that because as soon as you step in foot in there, because of your statements against their policy that they would basically take that out on you?
Or is there any of the reason?
I when I was allowed to travel because I was under house arrest for the past year because of that action that I'm very proud of
But I used to travel quite a bit to Palestine what they call Israel
Okay, when you have Israel
Go ahead
One second one second guys I just want to go to all true news
He is just to give a different perspective and he has been waiting for a while so go ahead all true
Yes, I don't know where to begin.
So it was one person before, I don't know, was a doctor or something,
we said that the Palestinian and Gaza don't have a free movement.
So I'm wondering why the Egyptians don't open the border from them and let them go, just cross.
Yes.
They are the same kind of people, the both Arabs.
Basically, if you want to know the history,
most of the people in Gaza, they are Egyptian.
And if you don't believe me, you can go and look,
Fathi Hamid, the Interior Minister of Hamas,
was saying that on TV.
We are all Saudi, we are all from Yemen, we are all from Egypt.
All my half of my family is El Masri.
You can go in here, the interview with them on the Egyptian TV.
I didn't say that.
So this is not a story now I'm telling you.
Go and look by yourself.
I mean, that's not really a good argument.
That's like saying everyone, all Israelis come from Poland.
It's just nonsense.
No, no, no.
So I'm saying, excuse me?
Alt, listen, alt, too, right?
What you say about Egypt, okay?
I just wish you guys would just do a quick kind of, you know,
a little bit of a due diligence check before you come on these faces and talk up and nonsense.
I do all the reason why Israel won't open that border is because America pays Israel and Cici billions every year.
You mean Egypt, Alicia, you mean Egypt?
Yes, Egypt is paying, Egypt is being paid by America.
The United States government pays, sorry, Charles, go ahead.
There's also a very close relationship between Cece and the Israelis, which is somewhat more covert.
That's why he's paid and that's why he's doing their bidding.
No, the payment comes from the Camp David in 1970s.
No, no, just to be clear about this.
So one of my mentors actually worked on the Camp David Accords here.
And the way to understand what happened was during the Carter administration, the U.S. government essentially bribed Israel and Egypt to stop fighting with each other. And that's basically where things stand currently, though the Israelis get a lot more money in all kinds of other ways. And C.C. is very, very, very, very close with Netanyahu, which of course we also know.
Go ahead, Calaisi. I didn't mean to interrupt, but I just wanted a point of clarification.
No, you're right. You're right.
But also, you know, the obvious thing is, is the king of Jordan, the king of Saudi Arabia.
Ariel, Ariel, wait.
Is that not good for you?
Ariel.
Okay.
This is a pre-cences all the Arabs.
Yes, we are in peace with them.
What?
There's like four people talking.
Let's go for Khalisi and then we'll go to Ariel.
Thanks, Ariel, please don't interrupt.
I think, sorry, all true news.
Is your name, Calisi?
It's not, is it?
It's all true news.
So he said Calisi.
Ariel, you need to go look for some TikTok videos and listen to me.
Okay?
So if you done a quick Google search and Google, military aid, US, Egypt, Citi relationship,
you'll find out the reason why Cici.
And Cici's only there because between Israel and America, they've placed him there.
He's a tyrant.
He's a dictator.
I'm calling him out, but he keeps that border closed because he's paid to.
He's paid billions of American taxpayers' dollars.
And so America is as complicit in Palestinians being killed.
Gaza is the biggest open-air prison.
And do you know what?
When you guys come here and,
and you talk about it and you say,
oh no, it's fine, Gaza's fine, nothing's going on.
It just sounds pathetic because anybody can Google.
Every human rights organization is calling you out,
calling Israel out, calling the Israeli government out,
every single one.
And have been international law has said
Palestinians have a right to defend themselves.
You disregard all of that and come here with TikTok videos
and say this is my evidence.
There's no atrocities in Gaza.
Guys, look in the nest and just slow down.
know what you gave me. I haven't finished. All true news. I haven't finished speaking. No, I haven't finished speaking. No, no, no, no, no. I haven't finished speaking. I have to be able to be. All true. Altru is weird. Mood and separate. All true. I'm going to go to you straight after Halisi. Like, straight after her. You're going next. So just write down anything she says that's annoying you. And then I'm going to go straight to you.
Go ahead, Helicia. I'm sure everything I'm saying is annoying him, but write down something that you can factually come back on instead of propaganda. And by the way, just as a side note, you know, I know that what Ronnie's saying, the truth hurts, but don't go into personal insults because I don't care what Ronnie's background is or what he's been in prison for. I care about his political opinion while he's sat here and he's
bang on the money. Interestingly enough, none of you actually challenged the facts he put on the
table. You went for a personal attack. I'll do it, Cali. So, Altru news, this is not your time to speak.
Are you Calisi? Do you want to be Calisi? No, so mute your mic and listen to me, okay?
Because you're going to get a chance to speak after I've finished.
You said no one will defend it. I will. Well, you didn't, though. You went for a personal attack.
I will. I just got it. Well, then put your hand up and mute your mic and wait until I finished.
Oh, it's already up. Thank you, dear. Yes. You meet your mic.
So, as I was saying, you know, America and Egypt, this is all down to Israel, to be honest with you.
And America funds this every single year.
Without a shadow of doubt, do you know there was a congresswoman who tried to do an event for Nakba and it was banned?
And then they went and pushed her into a small room.
What is Nakba?
Sorry, am I speaking or are you speaking?
Did he not say to the Taliban?
He said, come up.
He said not going to what is Nakba.
Guys, what is going on?
Like, can you not let her finish?
He said this world already four times.
I don't understand the world.
They have their orders, Solomon.
What is Palestine?
What exactly is Palestine?
What's the origin of this law?
Ariel.
Ariel.
Guys.
Ariel and all I don't get it like this is a basic manners I've asked you guys like 20 so I'm going to
what's going to happen here right so we're in 2023 there's been this massive onslaught people have been
killed one on the Israeli side even one life is too much okay so I'm not even saying that 33 on one side
and one on the other every single life counts because they're all somebody's you know children or
spouse or whatever nobody should have been killed this is
Israel's doing solely.
Now here's what's going to happen.
When you let these two guys speak,
Ariel and this old fake news
instead of true news,
I think you should change your handle, by the way.
There's nothing true about what you say.
So here's a little attack for you.
So when you guys speak,
I'm still talking,
I'm still talking,
when you guys speak,
why do you speak about 2023
instead of Nakbah,
and when Palestine was created, because that's what you do.
I don't understand where you bring it from.
I'm still talking.
I'm still talking.
I'm not even listening to you.
You do.
What is going on?
Altru, just, at least if you finish your point in 30 seconds, I'm going to go to Altru.
Altru, please don't interrupt in these 30 seconds.
It'll be another five minutes.
Go ahead out, please.
Thank you so much.
Yeah, that's fine.
Don't talk to me.
Don't talk to me.
Right, right.
Listen, Ultru.
Altru.
Ultra, if you interrupt one more time, I'm going to drop you.
Like, this is ridiculous.
Like, basic manners.
I've had to mute you like eight times.
Like, this is like childish.
It's actually ridiculous.
It's embarrassing that I have to tell you off.
And I didn't want to because I don't want to make it look like I'm not balanced.
But this is ridiculous.
Like, every time I unmute the mic, you just basically go off and one.
It's basic manners.
Halisi, finish your point in 30 seconds and then I'm going to go to him.
If he unmutes, he's going down.
Go ahead, Alicia.
Okay.
Listen.
Thank you.
There you go.
There you go, Sileman.
He's just not going to, and he's being rude.
He's just wearing.
He said, talk to you,
for you and on left.
Anyway, he's been dropped.
Go ahead, Lisa.
Finish your pie.
Yeah, this is what they do, you see.
So, So, Solomon, this is the point.
Okay.
When you talk to-
He's not true, he's being Zionist.
Right. Yeah. So what they do is they go personal. He just started swearing. They don't have a basis for argument. If I'm putting facts on the table, come to me with those facts. Come to me with something else that actually says, no, this is not the case. Do you know Benjamin Netanyahu, and I've said this on this space previously when we've discussed this, wants to bring in capital punishment for all terrorists? Let me tell you something that hasn't been discussed here. Okay. And this fact check this.
Israel has biometric databases with fingerprint scanning, iris scanning and face recognition of every Palestinian.
No Israelis are on these databases.
Every single person in Gaza.
Every single person.
Do you know this?
And this is...
That's 30 seconds, Suleiman.
May I respond?
No, because I haven't finished, Yehuda.
I'm finishing...
I got interrupted too many times, and I'm going to finish this point.
So they have all of this.
They detain people without charge for decades in solitary confinement.
Netanyahu wants to bring out capital punishment, right?
I don't trust the Israeli legal system as far as Palestinians are concerned for anybody who's a terrorist.
And I said this.
5,000...
We give them a last point, Sileman.
They classed last year as 5,000 terrorist acts from Palestinians against Israelis.
Actually, 2,997 with them were kids throwing a stone.
That Israel is such a big victim.
It classes that as a terrorist act.
And if Netanyahu continues, he would give those children capital punishment.
It's barbaric, it's illegal, it's inhumane, own it.
May I respond?
Thank you so very much, Suleiman.
I would really love to lower the tempo of the conversation,
which I've heard for a bit.
Suleiman, I appreciate you are actually a very, very good moderator.
The other fellow on, let's say, my side,
who interrupt constantly.
That's not acceptable.
However, there has been an enormous amount of,
of obfuscation in the panel.
It hurts me to see you have to mute everyone so many times.
Look, dial it down.
We're here to have a discussion and a dialogue, perhaps.
we could all yell at a wall and get the same result let's try to let's try to make progress so for
those i mean i don't defend every action of the israeli government i'm not even israeli i don't
care but when people say everything is the result of some other party of the
The other side is blameless.
I think you're being absolutely dishonest and shame on you.
You're anyone, and I'm a parent, and I'll say this, if you have children, you know there's always two sides to something.
And to say that one side is blameless and the other is, it's just, it's not, why it bothers me is this, Suleiman.
Because it doesn't progress peace.
It doesn't progress the advancement of a commonality or of a to get to an end point where people have some kind of resolution.
So if we consistently say from the Jewish side...
Arabs don't have a right to Palestine. Palestine was never a country, blah, blah, blah.
Well, guess what?
It's from the Zionist side. Please don't degrade Jews.
Please, please do not interrupt me as I did not interrupt you,
even though I found everything you said to be abhorrent and irrelevant and wrong.
So please do not interrupt me. Thank you.
There are...
The one side that says that from the Jewish side that Palestine didn't exist, and I tell my Jewish confrary.
Please don't speak badly against Jews.
I'm getting attacked by everybody.
What I say is this.
It doesn't matter if Palestine was an historical state in the past.
There are millions of people who are Arab who say they're Palestinians.
They say we want a Palestinian state.
It would behoove the Israelis to say that we need to recognize that there are people that,
clamor for independence and nationality
and we need to make a wrong
a right and that's fine
from the Arab side
For those who are
Raqqasant, the
individual here who's interrupted me
twice now, who said the Zionism,
apartheid, blah, blah, blah.
Well, I don't know where Mr. Barkan is from,
but from my grandmother's side,
who had a house in Shimonat Sadiq,
Sheikh Zara, neighborhood now,
who has lived in the Holy Land
since before Muhammad was a prophet,
since before Arabs were ever in Israel,
I...
perfectly and comfortably say that we need to live together in this land.
I've not asked for a title deed. I've not said blah, blah, blah, I need to have the...
Look, we're all human beings. We all have children. We all recognize the need to say,
look, there is a land with two people. It needs to be shared.
People need to recognize the rights of one another, and whether you're a Tel Avivian, as an individual previously said, who's a liberal or this or that, it doesn't matter.
You need to respect the right of every person to live in freedom and democracy.
I heard...
uh four classifications of israeli citizenship this individual is completely wrong ben gurdian there are basic laws that define
he's not raleigh if he's wrong please disprove him who's that
Sorry, that was...
He doesn't matter.
Just answer him.
You said that he...
I'm asking...
I'm asking...
...theiris who I'm speaking...
...why don't you meet your mic, dear?
So, the Israeli Declaration of Independence, which is a document anyone who has eyeballs can read, makes it clear that...
Which has nothing to do with reality on the ground, or the way the design of state was founded...
If you want to interrupt me all the time, it just
betrays your cause, not mine.
You're just proving how,
you're just proving how clueless you are about the situation.
Suleiman, please.
I let, yeah, sorry, I would text on somebody.
It would be nice that he could get to a point, though.
That would be nice.
So, Laman, he's going back to the family tree
of Prophet Muhammad and Adam and Jesus and everything.
And that's not what this is about.
He's going back to the prophetry right two decades ago.
Halisi, Halisi, Halis.
Guys, guys, guys, guys.
Yehuda, go ahead.
If you want to make it a bit more relevant
and just try and finish your point within a minute, that'll be brilliant.
Yehuda, go ahead.
Just unmute bottom left.
You heard of bottom left.
I was muted by the host,
if it said.
Yeah, yeah.
I muted everybody so they don't interrupt you.
Okay, sorry about that.
Yeah.
Thank you very much.
Look, I'm not trying to interrupt other people in like the same courtesy.
The reality is this.
Israel is a state.
It has the Declaration of Independence and the basic laws have a very theoretical approach to all of the inhabitants.
It protects the rights of minorities.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Would you stop interrupting me?
Has it worked out perfectly?
Absolutely not.
Where I take umbrage is with the accusation that there are different categories of citizenship in Israel.
It's not true.
Is the Jewish National Fund, which is not a governmental organization, control land to be settled by Jews?
Yes.
If I was a Palestinian Arab, first of all, I'm pro-Palestine, by the way.
I believe that Palestinians deserve a state in the West Bank and in Gaza, and they need to have that ability in which to promote and grow their culture.
What you just said is against Palestinians.
Stop talking. For God's sakes, man. Do you have any manners?
I have no manners when it touches on supremacist fascist.
I believe.
Can you get to the point already?
He does have manners, but you're boring, Yehuda.
Get to the point.
I might be, and you know what?
You're not very interested.
Yeah, superlative.
That's fine.
Just get to the point, you know, what I'm saying is that if anyone has a functioning brain cell in their head,
they realize that there are 7 million Israelis, there are 7 million Palestinians.
You are going to have to make it more.
14 million Palestinians.
Would you stop?
Jesus Christ.
Would someone stop the interruption?
you can
He's correcting you
He's not
He's not interrupted
Guys guys
Guys guys
Look
Look
Guys everybody's interrupting each other
Let Yehuda finish
You Hoodie
You were actually
Intropting as well
When Halisi was talking
This is what happens
When these type of discussions happen
Go ahead Yehuda
Thank you, sir. There are 20 million people approximately with the same claim to approximately the same land.
You can either complain and say the other one has no right and I have the right or they have the right.
The other one has that right. Or you can say we need to make it work.
Every time I hear these conversations, I hear the same constant refrain.
The other one is garbage.
I'm good.
They're good.
I'm garbage.
You need to recognize Israel's not going anywhere.
For those who say the apartheid, blah, blah, blah, state of Israel...
It's not going anywhere.
A simple visit to Tel Aviv will recognize that.
You need to create the conditions where people say, like, for those who, you know,
an Israeli person who might not like Israel, might say, I don't support Israel, blah, blah, blah.
If you cannot speak to both sides of the aisle, a resolution...
will not be met never show the twain meat you have to recognize there has to be a compromise on both
if you're not yeah no no it's a fair point i think you made a fair point so let me just we're about a wrap
up guys soon so i want to just go to charles and then we'll be wrapping up so charles go ahead
yeah i would just say that people can see the things that i put on the nest about the involvements
of the israelis on you know illegal activity in the united states to try to pressure us
to be engaged in the Middle East.
You could also see the piece that I put up.
I tend to use Israeli sources,
like Times of Israel, Haaretz,
so that there's no question about bias
or even Fox News, for that matter,
just as a way of kind of demonstrating this.
But you can see in the Times of Israel, you know,
peace that I just posted...
It is becoming increasingly illegal for Americans or for Christians basically to proselytize in the Holy Land under this government.
And I think what is that great Martin Luther King quote?
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.
I think a lot of Americans are kind of starting to realize that.
And we're starting to realize in particular with Pegasus, with Elbit systems, which Ronnie, you know, was right to highlight, that there's a sort of open-air prison.
And that open-air prison is going to be extended not just to Gaza under the West Bank, but to the rest of us.
And we see that with the technology that's being extended all throughout the world and the ways in which, you know, American politicians, their sons are being hacked.
by Israelis. It's a real going concern and something that Netanyahu has tried to build. I mean,
he said in 2019, cyber is a real domain of power and he talked about compromising the five-eyes
system. And there's a lot of evidence increasingly showing that American law enforcement,
be a DHS, be a DEA, be at FBI, have been very much compromised by Israeli and to some extent
Russian and Chinese interests. So I think we need to be sort of honest about
This is an American issue, and this is particularly an American issue when many of us are complicit through our tax dollars.
And by the way, I should say there are many American Jews who agree with this.
There are many Americans of Israelis of American descent.
There are many people that are calling this out and fighting it.
And I think it's, you know, before this sort of space wraps up, I think it's.
quite telling that those of us who have facts,
who have things we're putting up in the Jumbotron,
were being sort of shouted down or being, you know,
messed with in different ways.
It's quite telling.
I mean,
I myself have gotten seven threats
since I started speaking in this space.
it's over.
Like your game is done.
Like you can't intimidate people.
Enough of us are standing up to it.
And I hope you recognize that, you know,
you can be a responsible player in the world stage,
but it needs to start now.
So with that,
thank you for hosting the space and I'll drop down.
Thanks, Charles.
You don't need to drop down.
We're about a finish.
So I appreciate everyone coming and listening.
In terms of the Jumbotron, I mean, I do appreciate Ronnie all the evidence that you put on there.
I appreciate Kim.
You put some evidence on there.
Charles.
But yeah, Ariel, if you do get us some like real evidence, we can put that on there.
But yeah, other than that, just thanks everybody.
Just a moment.
What I sent you in the DM was not good enough.
This picture of missile is shooting from inside the Gaza.
One second, I did not talk. Could I add one sentence please?
Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead while I check error.
Go ahead.
Just one sentence. It was mentioned as if the two sides have to make some concessions.
The exact opposite is true. To abolish apartheid in South Africa, to abolish slavery in the US,
the system of oppression, domination and terror needs to be abolished.
We are not talking about what will happen to the state of Israel, which is also called Palestine.
We are talking about the abolishment of a system that necessarily needs to be abolished in order to be able to build anything that serves the rights of all the people of that land.
Thanks.
But can I ask you a question?
I just want to clarify.
One second, Yehouda.
Ariel, I've just looked at what you sent me.
What you sent me is that there's rockets being fired right now.
from Gaza and I've also read from war monitor that essentially Israel is also sending rockets to Gaza.
So yeah, that is it. So that just shows that the escalation hasn't ended despite the ceasefire.
Let's keep our focus on it.
No, no, what I'm sending you, just a moment, just a moment.
What I sent you, Suleiman, just a moment.
What I sent you is an evidence.
that the jihad organization is shooting missiles from inside population area, highly populated area.
That's the issue.
That's the issue.
That's the issue.
And you're warming it from above.
So don't sit here and give that very.
But his question is good enough.
What?
No, no.
Ariel, Ariel.
What I was asking for evidence was the evidence of the other things you mentioned earlier in terms of, you know, children with, you know, with knives and so on and so forth.
But in terms of what you sent me now is essentially rockets coming from...
coming from Gaza, but Gaza is heavily populated, so heavily, it's a dense area, so of course it's going to come from a dense area.
Hence why when you...
Yes, why isn't they shooting Sleman?
Why aren't they shooting from a field?
From a field.
Suleiman, may ask you a simple question?
You said I could speak after, yeah.
So, look.
I mean, I didn't say you could speak after.
I was about to end it, but go ahead.
I'm warm on here as well.
With respect.
May I see that?
Oh, one second, you.
He'll just go to War Monitor to just give us live updates about what's happening
because I want to know.
And then I'll, and then I'm probably going to end the space anyway.
War Monitor, go ahead.
May, may you let us know.
War monitor, go ahead.
Yes, but Salaman, I didn't finish.
I just wanted to finish a few words.
Well, neither have I finished, but it's going to have to end the space, isn't he?
It's none of us a finished area.
Right.
You guys, I know everyone wants to talk.
One second, guys.
One second.
I want War Monitor to give us updates.
War Monitor, there was meant to be, I saw your post,
and there was meant to be a ceasefire at 10 p.m. Israeli time.
So what has happened since?
So the ceasefire.
It's also Palestinian time.
Yeah, just stop.
Yeah, Palestinian is early time.
Sorry, sorry, yeah.
So the Seasbri was supposed to take place at 10.
It did take place at 10.
You had... You heard of, you heard of, please don't interrupt, come on.
We had rocket at 109, 1008.
Can I keep going?
Sorry, sorry, but I'm on.
Yeah, we had rocket launches at 1008 and they kept going.
Those were from West, sorry?
From Gaza.
I think they were response to a airstrike that took place at 10.04, I believe.
So the Israelis broke the air strike, the ceasefire with an air strike.
And then they replied with a few rockets.
And then it ended around an hour and a half later with both sides completely announcing withdrawal.
of, you know, engagement of the war, and they opened the checkpoints and they announced that the high state of alert was passed and everything's back to normal now.
So we have a complete ceasefire at the moment. And how long is this ceasefire for a war monitor from what you know?
This should last for the next encounter.
So it shouldn't be broken in the case.
So that's good news.
That's good news.
So hopefully as long as...
It's already ended.
Yehuda, please.
Sorry.
I just want to get updates because we've had a space for three hours and I did ask a lot of people questions and they weren't fully update about what was happening.
So we got War Monitor who basically gives provides updates.
And so this is an opportunity for everybody to know the reason we had this space in the first place.
So thank you for that.
So now we know there's a ceasefire.
So hopefully nothing happens and the ceasefire continues.
So in terms of the specific attack that happened,
or how this specific escalation started.
So from my understanding, it was Operation something, an Arrow.
Halisi mentioned, I forgot the name now.
And in that one, so if you tell me a bit about the operation and how many people died.
Yeah, they call it that.
I won't call it that.
It was an assassination at top PIG leaders.
while they were at their homes with their wives and children
so that the first strike at night took out, I think, 13 people.
Only, I believe, three of them were actual PIG officials.
The rest were children and women and civilians and neighbors, all that, you know, typical IDF targets.
Then we waited 36 hours for response from the PIG, and that started the, what we call on our side, the this war is called the Revenge of the Free.
So it started this war.
Okay.
Okay.
This was also applied to that because we, about two weeks ago, one week ago, we had the, also a top PIG leader called Khadur Adnan, I think, and he, he...
Oh, yeah, yeah, we talked about him one, manca, yeah.
Yeah, right, right. Kill all the Jews.
So, so, so, um...
I don't know what's happened.
But so, warm on to, just another question.
How many people have died from both sides?
I read it was 37 and 1 or 33 and 1.
Is that the most updated figure?
Yeah, it's no more than 37.
I believe the last one I read was 33 from the Palestinian Health Ministry.
But it probably, I did read a 35 or 37, but I doubt that that's the case.
I think 33 is the correct one.
I appreciate it.
And was there anything else you wanted to add?
Thank you.
Right, guys.
Thank you so much for listening.
At least what we got some,
I would say some form of news,
good news from War Monitor,
basically saying that there is a ceasefire.
And the hope is that that ceasefire
continues and remains in place.
till the end and for as long as it does obviously warm monitor isn't confident that is going to
remain in place for too long but let's hope it does i appreciate everybody coming everybody
listening we um we we we had people from all sides talking and we try to keep it as balance as
possible throughout this so yeah appreciate it thank you
Yeah, thanks, everybody. I really do appreciate you guys. We're going to shut it down.
But yeah, I do thank you. I just try to have this more civilly in the future as well.
This is a very, very difficult topic to navigate. So thanks, guys.
