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It's Time to COOK — Season 2 Kickoff
Recorded: Oct. 29, 2024 Duration: 0:31:07Space Recording
Full Transcription
Hello.
Just going to get Limitless out on stage and then we'll be kick-starting.
Okay.
Can you both hear me?
Yep.
Sounding clear.
Nice.
John?
Yeah, can hear you.
Oh my gosh.
This is Limitless or John's first time on mental spaces, so it will be a unique one.
Yeah.
So basically today's space will be all about cook, right?
We had the TGA happening today and season two will happen tomorrow.
Just to kick start, can Gabe and John please introduce yourselves, starting with John?
Yeah.
Hi guys.
So it's the first time I'm speaking on spaces to you guys.
You know, I've joined mental maybe a few months back, just focusing on partnerships within
the ecosystem, right?
Looking at CME and some of the other interesting things that we are cooking along in mental and
beyond just that.
you know, it's just a wide ecosystem.
There's just so much to be done, but it's an exciting space.
And yeah, I mean, previously worked in other crypto firms, was from traditional finance.
But yeah, excited to be here and to speak with all of you guys.
Hey guys, Gabe here.
I think we should really have like a Twitter spaces initiation for like John since it's like
new.
Nice.
But yeah, anyway, I'm Gabe, currently look after the DeFi ecosystem at Mantle.
Previously, I came from various other web tree firms like Spartan and before that I was at
Bybit as well.
But right now, I pretty much deal with the DeFi protocols on a day to day basis.
So things with layer two integrations, partnership discussions and stuff like that.
So yeah, really happy to be here as well to talk about COOK.
Thanks both.
Yeah, so Gabe and John here, they're quite smart people.
So super reliable.
They've been very helpful as well.
Super involved in, you know, the whole ME protocol initiation as well as like COOK, everything
involved, right?
Yeah, so today's main topic, we will be going deep into ME protocol and then we will kind
of go through what COOK is and the other products that fall under ME protocol.
So just to begin with, Gabe, can you explain what is ME protocol and what's its significance
with Mantle?
Yeah, for sure.
So ME protocol is very simple.
Very simply put, it's a liquid staking protocol that exists on Ethereum.
So anyone who wants to stake their EVE in the proof of stake network will be able to stake
it through the ME protocol to get a liquid staked derivative of their staked EVE on the
EVE on Beacon Chain.
So what that essentially means is users don't need to lock up their funds while validating
the network.
And then they can also use MEVE, which is the liquid stake derivative of their position
in EVE staking, and then use that in DeFi in a very composable manner.
And it's also yield bearing in nature.
So anyone can, for example, use MEVE in various other DeFi protocols such as like lending
protocols, DEXs, using like DeFi strategies and stuff like that.
And yeah, it's been, I think it would be about 10 months now since we launched MEVE protocol.
We launched it back in December of 2023, and we reached a peak TVL of, I would say, 2 plus
billion at a time.
In terms of Ethereum, it's about 500,000 EVE staked.
Now it's slightly down from that, but I would say pretty successful overall.
We've come a long way.
And then how that sort of ties into Mantle as a whole.
So for those of you all who are tuning into Mantle for like the first time, Mantle is generally
a lot of things, but at the core of Mantle is the Mantle DAO or the Mantle Treasury, which
is essentially a very large ecosystem treasury that is creating all sorts of different types
of products and a whole ecosystem, right?
And MEVE protocol is one of these key products in the Mantle ecosystem, which is also very
synergistic with the Mantle network, which is the Ethereum layer 2 ecosystem.
So yeah, very similar to other layer 2s, except we have this whole burgeoning ecosystem of dApps,
as well as core asset products like MEVE, FBTC, and in the future, CMEVE.
And now we have Coke as well.
Thank you, Gabe.
Yeah.
So one of the things that, you know, I think people like to mention or our team as well
is Mantle is quite different because we do incubate our own products.
So like MEVE, if you've seen the liquid-staking token, as Gabe has said, has grown to become
one of the largest EVE LST out there in the market, despite only launching, I guess, like
within less than a year.
So Mantle, with its, you know, big ecosystem, you know, ensures that MEVE and stuff gets
integrated really quickly compared to, I guess, other protocols.
And we have a lot of, like, strong support from builders as well as our own treasury.
So now on to the next question, right?
What's the difference between MEVE, CMEVE, as well as Coke?
So there's currently three products under MEVE protocol.
So could you explain that, John?
Yeah, for sure.
Glad to do that, right?
Okay.
Okay.
So I think this is something that most of our listeners here are familiar with, right?
MEVE, CMEVE.
But I think for those who are newer, have just joined our community, right?
So MEVE protocol itself, as, you know, was mentioned, was launched last year in November
2023.
And, you know, as Gabriel mentioned, you know, we hold, like, you know, more than almost
500,000 ETH, right?
So in itself, it's the fourth largest ETH LST in the market.
Right?
So MEVE or MEVE itself is a very, I would say, vanilla staking kind of staking product, right?
It's just liquid staking as we know it across all the different ecosystems, right?
It's non-custodial.
We operate with, like, the best node operators, you know, like A41, P2P, so and so forth.
Right?
And this is for the people in our community that's, you know, looking to earn that kind
of stable ETH validator yields, right?
And then, of course, with MIP 30, and then for those of you that don't know, it's basically
our entire governance process, right?
Which was basically passed a while back.
We wanted to do an extension of that, right?
Because I think at its core, what mental is really, you know, and what we've always been
working towards is to see how we can provide best-in-class yields, right, throughout the
industry.
And you've already seen it with Math Protocol itself, with MEVE, right?
We did the double-dose campaign.
Like, nowhere else will you be able to find that kind of yields for just basic ETH staking,
right?
With that kind of risk-reward.
So for us, you know, we studied multiple LRTs, LSTs, and, you know, we've gotten a lot
of feedback from multiple people.
And then we decided, okay, look, let's launch CME, our liquid risk-taking token, right?
And go towards, build towards that.
And of course, you know, the highlight of today, which is COOK, right?
Math Protocols Governance Token.
But I think what I'd like to break down further, right, is actually CME itself, right?
Because if you think about it, for most people, their liquid risk-taking tokens are specific
to each kind of risk-taking provider.
It's like, you know, there's like a certain type of risk-take ETH or eigenlayer.
If you have a certain type of risk-take ETH or symbiotic.
CME is slightly different.
CME is, you can think of it as an index of sorts, right?
So then rather than committing to a single risk-taking provider or a single set of strategies,
right, the underlying assets or ME is basically allocated across multiple risk-taking protocols
and strategies, right?
And, you know, they're basically, you know, operators that are optimizing for risk-to-reward
because at the end of the day, you know that there'll be different AVSs launching
on the different risk-taking protocols.
You know, they have all different focuses, generate different kind of yields.
There's a lot of value in trying to figure out, you know, what's the best risk-reward.
Or if you're from traditional finance, then you know the best sharp ratio as well, right?
So if you think about it in this way, CME is basically like a superior version of a liquid-restaking token.
It's reimagined because it doesn't necessarily have to be restake yields as well.
It can be beyond that, right?
You could think of other interesting strategies that could be deployed within the index, right?
But I'll just keep it for now that, you know, it's basically a wide allocation of the different risk-taking protocols.
And you are basically getting access to all the different types of risk-taking protocols and operator.
I will put a quote-unquote exposure, right?
You saw how like Symbiotic has points, Agile has points.
Some of these operators have points as well.
You get access to that all through CME, right?
And then the last point of like how that would be then different, of course, is then, you know, as Kate mentioned,
the DAO itself has a, I would say, pretty decent treasury, right?
And that's how we've always been working, right?
Trying to use that treasury to work towards like getting yields, getting rewards, getting increased, you know, exposure for our users and our holders.
So that itself stacks on top of what is already like an improved LRT token.
Okay, so I've said a lot.
Let's see.
What did I miss out?
Wow.
Well, I'll sum up that later.
But I guess the last one is on Cook.
So what exactly is Cook?
And how does that tie in into ME protocol?
I see.
Okay.
Yeah.
So Cook in itself is basically ME math protocols governance token, right?
And it was designed to be so.
And I think a lot of you, a lot of you guys have, you know, asked about, you know, what we're doing with it.
At the core of it, it's basically a lot of R&D, right?
For us, it's just thinking about, you know, what makes sense for our users the best, right?
It's not just like, you know, thinking about, wow, I can use Cook to vote for something.
But it's also more of like, beyond just these voting measures, are there any other things that we can do?
Any form of staking that we can provide?
These are all...
I think we...
Wait, did he?
I think we lost him.
We lost him.
We lost him.
Oh, no worries.
I'll check back with him.
Don't see in the space right now.
Wait.
He is back.
I am back!
Where did you lose me?
Something after staking.
Something after staking.
So basically, we're just doing a lot of R&D, a lot of soundboarding, right?
Within our teams and our stakeholders as well.
You want to just think about like, what's the best way?
You know, what's the most optimal way to drive more alignment between Cook token and Math Protocol itself?
Because if you think about it, that token basically governs the fourth largest OST, right?
And this is even before the launch of CME itself.
Even before the traction of AVSS has even taken off, right?
So there's a lot to be done, right?
And that's what we're focusing on.
Perfect.
Thank you for the very good descriptions, actually.
So just to sum up for those who didn't hear before.
So CME is essentially what you get when you restate your MEF or your MEF when it becomes available tomorrow.
So CME is different from, you know, I guess like a traditional LRT is because CME itself will include like a portfolio of positions.
So this would include Egan layer, Symbiotic and Karak to begin with, as well as the associated AVSS.
So you can think of it as something where it kind of maximizes your exposure to risk taking as a whole, but made very easily through MEF, right?
So it's a trusted, I would think it's a trusted product around the community and around for quite a long time, already integrated across a number of protocols.
So people can expect that to happen with CME.
So COOK actually is the main news for today because the TGA happened just earlier, actually.
And as John earlier mentioned, COOK essentially is a governance token.
There are still some future plans in mind.
Nothing has really been set in concrete yet, but essentially you can think of it as an R&D, right?
And well, what can you do with COOK?
More details will come out soon.
So I guess next to the other question is like, how can users currently obtain COOK, John?
So where is COOK listed?
Is there any on-chain liquidity?
Yeah, I think most of you guys might have seen it already.
But, you know, if you are a SEX user, right?
Centralized exchange user, you can visit Bybit, Maxi, Gate, BitRule.
And I think, you know, further in the future, we'll probably work towards more integrations.
But, you know, for our on-chain friends and on-chain, you know, DeFi natives, right?
You know, Merchantmo has set up a few pools as well with COOK already listing and live.
So now on to Gabe.
So the main thing happening tomorrow is season two metamorphosis.
So season one just ended and that's how people got their COOK tokens.
So could you share, I guess, more details about season two, what it entails and how does it involve CMEV?
Yeah, for sure.
So yeah, season one was a, I would say, a really huge success.
We effectively ran a points campaign that rewarded users to use MEV on Mantle.
So that brought a lot of users to sort of explore the Mantle ecosystem.
And they managed to get a really good feel of what kind of yields they can take advantage of,
what kind of protocols they can use, which partners can they visit.
And we are coming back with a season two of the metamorphosis campaign.
And I think the main focus here will likely be on the future expansion of MEV,
which is CMEV, as John mentioned earlier.
So this campaign will be starting tomorrow, October 30th, and will last for 110 days.
So a pretty long period for users to explore the ecosystem and get a hold of more COOK tokens.
So we have a whole list of partners as well.
So we have the usual faces, the guys that you've seen in the past campaign as well.
So MerchantMole, Pendle, InitCapital, Lendl, just to name a few.
And also for the first 30 days, how it's going to run is that we'll be incentivizing MEV with Powder.
And also once that 30 days is up, we'll switch a lot of that incentives to go to the CMEV holders
to allow users to explore the ecosystem using their liquid restake version of MEV.
So effectively getting multiple sources of yield all the way from EVE staking, restaking protocols, AVSs,
the dApps on the layer 2, and so protocol integrations in addition to the COOK rewards.
And I think it will be a pretty interesting one.
Currently, we're just getting all the partners integrated and involved.
And yeah, I think it will be a very fun experience for all involved.
You can actually see some of the protocols in this space here.
So thank you for joining.
Some of them here will be actually part of the campaign happening tomorrow.
So for those who did not join Season 1 Metamorphoses, it's basically,
the first part was just, you know, MEV holders get its advice with Powder.
So Powder would have been convertible to COOK tokens, which had a TGE today.
And for Season 2 Metamorphoses, what will happen is kind of like the same,
but the focus will be mainly CMEV, just to kind of bootstrap adoption as well as demand.
But, you know, we understand that people may not really be open to, you know, liquid staking as of yet.
So the first 30 days will incentivize both MEV and CMEV, and then the remainder mainly CMEV.
So this is actually quite a popular question.
A lot of people like to ask this because it's, I think it's quite daunting.
I mean, DeFi itself is quite daunting.
And then you think about the jargons that follow CMEV, sorry, liquid restaking tokens.
So John or either Gabe, both of you could answer if you like.
How should users choose between holding MEV or CMEV?
Yeah, I think that's a good question.
So I think it really boils down to your risk profile, right?
So just to sort of give the users an idea of what are the potential risks involved.
So MEV itself is a very simple design.
It's basically liquid restaked version of EVE that sits on the Ethereum beacon chain that's
being staked and earning validator rewards.
So the risk for MEV itself is definitely slashing if any of these validators tend to maybe make
any errors or they are malicious in some form.
Usually it's the latter.
And then for CMEV, it's slightly different because you're sort of depositing this underlying MEV into
various restaking protocols.
So guys like eigenlayer, symbiotic, current network.
And what this is essentially doing is a shared security model.
So effectively, you're using the underlying staked EVE to secure other decentralized
applications, networks, any kind of decentralized app or network that wants to bootstrap its own
security, can rely on one of these restaking protocols to essentially use the Ethereum network
to validate and provide economic security to their protocol or application.
So the risk here is that obviously there's a lot of it's still a very new concept.
It's a very new primitive.
I would say it hasn't fully been battle tested to the extent of what we've seen with other
primitive applications.
So I would say it's still pretty early for the whole restaking market in general.
And also, there's obviously more risk of slashing given that it's more actively validated services.
AVS is being built on top of this restaking layer.
So I would say that's outside of the typical smart contract risk.
But yeah, I think it's definitely an opt-in mechanism.
So anyone who wants to get a hold of CME, there's no pressure.
There's nothing forcing one to get a hold of it.
So it's ultimately whether you want to risk your underlying assets for that extra rewards.
So yeah, I would say users should do their own due diligence before investing or putting their money into something that they don't understand.
So yeah, it would be good to at least understand the differences between regular liquid staking and also restaking.
John, do you have any comments to add on top of that?
Gabe forced me to convert my EME to CME.
But no, yeah, I think you just resound with what Gabe said, right?
I mean, at the end of the day, it's just risk to reward, right?
If you're someone that's going further down the risk curve, if the risk of crypto and volatility of crypto is not enough for you, like it is for me, then you will probably want to get access to some of the more interesting rewards that will appear on CME, right?
But yeah, I think at the start, there's a lot of work that needs to be done on the entire restaking space as a whole, right?
All the different AVSs that will be launching on the different restaking protocols.
It's an early time, but it's when you're early and when everything is still the most, I would say, least clear is when you have the most alpha and the most upside.
But not financial advice.
I mean, as Gabe said, just take some time to read our documents.
It's all very detailed to kind of understand, you know, what's the architecture, how it all works, what exactly restaking is, the kind of providers, and then, you know, you make your decision from there.
At the end of the day, math protocol still functions as an LST, functions with an LRT.
Everything just, you know, contributes back into the entire ecosystem.
I must let it be known that the mental team is actually full of degenerates.
So there's a lot of things to say that maybe you should definitely take with a pinch of salt and do your own due diligence.
But yes, they outlined the, I guess, the risk and reward of CME quite clearly, right?
Currently, it's still quite a grey area.
So I actually wanted to ask you both.
I think shared security is not really a new concept.
I mean, over the previous years, we had like, I guess, like parachains, interchain, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
So, so now restaking, restaking popped off, I think, last year on within the ETH ecosystem.
I mean, starting with ETH layer and a lot of people were getting like super bullish on it.
So do you guys have any insights about restaking in general?
Yeah, I mean, like, you know, MIF protocol is, it was so-called the next phase, which was quite obvious that MIF would be followed through with an LRT.
But in your own, I guess, on your own terms, what do you guys feel about restaking in general?
Are you bullish or bearish and why?
Gabe first, maybe?
Yeah, I think we're sort of the phase where we are trying to explore and hit walls, like bang a few walls and find out what works and what doesn't work.
So in the past few months, I think we've seen like the whole craze, right, especially with the whole restaking craze, where you saw many AVSs spin up, many new restaking layers came up, eigenlayer being the first.
And then you have people just building liquid stake derivatives on top of all these various restaking protocols, right?
And basically going further and further down the risk curve, because that was like the hot topic, right?
That was the thing that was effectively selling well to the market.
Everyone was creating new protocols, new projects, building within this restaking space, right, whatever that entails.
So I think we'll probably see a consolidation to quality from maybe the players that are not so good to the more reputable ones and the ones that are significantly more secure.
I would say it's still, I'm neither bullish or bearish.
I would say it's still like, maybe cautious at this stage, very cautiously optimistic.
Yeah, I think John is probably on the same wavelength, considering how you are speaking about CME earlier.
The liquid restaking space is still quite, I guess, I mentioned grey, but CME is quite good.
It's taking like, yes, it's taking a different strategy by putting a portfolio of positions across multiple restaking protocols.
But at the same time, the team will use risk-adjusted allocations.
So safety is paramount, definitely at mental, and there's a reason why we've been trusted in the space and how we're still standing today.
But of course, we're still working towards continually building, growing, becoming safer, becoming stronger, etc.
So I guess just to end off, how can users locate CME tomorrow, right? Just some alpha, how will it work when Season 2 starts?
Okay, I guess I'll take that.
Yeah, so I think for CME itself, users can convert ME to basically CME via the stake-in contracts, right?
So all these can be found on the MEF protocols website, right?
MEF.Mental.xyz.
This is basically the most straightforward way and the official way to restate your ME.
But if, let's say, for example, you're not looking to do that, you're already on mental if you're MEF,
then you know you can basically use secondary channels, basically our swaps and our RFQs to swap directly on L2, right?
So because, and it shouldn't be an issue, right?
Because MEF and CMEF are basically quite loosely packed one is to one, right?
So we will basically facilitate extremely deep liquidity, right?
For all these taxes for you to basically swap MEF to CMEF, right?
On Merchant Mode, Agni and Native as well.
Yep, so those are the two ways to basically get CMEF.
It will be very simple and very straightforward. Yep.
Definitely will be quite an exciting time.
Today was, I mean, the last few weeks have been super packed.
Everyone on Mental Ecosystem, including the builders and teams itself,
have been really good to us, like supporting us, supporting the integrations.
So tomorrow will kind of be like the fruits of labour.
So super looking forward to see how it all turns out.
Commercial comms will go out on the ME Protocol page as well as Mental page.
It's been revealed that Season 2 Metamorphosis as well as CM Launch will happen at 10am UTC tomorrow.
So mark your calendars, take a look out, and yeah, we'll be fine.
Do you guys have any, like, last words to say?
Any last kind of actions you want the crowd to take?
Gabe, John.
Let's get cooking!
OFG.
OFG.
Awesome.
Awesome.
Alright, that's the end of the space.
Definitely gonna keep grinding tonight.
Okay.
Thank you guys, and thank you to the crowd.
Appreciate you taking the time.
Thanks, everybody.
Thanks, guys. Bye-bye.
Bye!
Bye!
Bye!
Host
Mantle
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Mantle Staked ETH
