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Jackal Town Hall
Recorded: Jan. 21, 2026 Duration: 0:57:09Space Recording
Short Summary
Respawn is making significant strides in the crypto space, securing 16 meetings with ideal customers and refining its target market to companies with over 300 employees. The team is exploring funding opportunities to support growth, with projected annual contracts ranging from $25,000 to $150,000, indicating strong market interest and potential for substantial revenue.
Full Transcription
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Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Thank you. I'm going to go to the next video. I All right.
All right.
Does that work?
I think it did.
Marcy, can you hear me?
Martin, can you throw me a thumbs up if you can hear me?
Uh-oh, we might be in trouble.
We might be in trouble here.
I'm all alone.
Merson, let's, yes.
I'm going to have to get Merson to leave the space and come back so I can get my co-host up here. But in the meantime, wild couple days.
Wild couple days.
We're able to exciting things on the Respawn application.
We've been able to book 16 meetings with our ideal customer, which is cool.
All that good stuff.
We got Mar mercy come back up
moan truth
no can you hear me yeah i can okay cool i can hear you this time you're live okay Okay. Great. Yeah. Awesome. Last couple of weeks at Jackalops.
So essentially where we are at right now is we're really heavily focusing on trying to figure out who the ideal customer of Respawn is.
So just kind of as a recap, what does Respawn do?
Respawn essentially, it tests if you can recover from cyber attacks and then it finds and fixes all the silent failures. So backup is number one, obviously, so you can back things up. You can, we can
use Merkle proofs and our fancy blockchain technology to know if the data is available.
But the thing that's also important to all the people that we're talking to about is 16
CISOs and IT directors in the last week and a bit.
They also really care about, can the data go back into the system?
And this is something that we've been really focused on the last couple of days,
is actually building out a system where we can find all the silent failures.
And you're probably asking, okay, Patrick, what does that mean?
What is a silent failure?
Let me tell you um so the issue with respawn and like what
we're trying to find for the silent failure side of things is there's things like broken configs
or there's things like like shadow sass just hogging bandwidth away from your recovery there's
things like configs drifting oauth exp, secrets and SSO breaking the recovery workflow, bit rot where like the data actually just becomes corrupted or just starts dropping bits and things like that.
And other things just like how many tools per function are important for the business to come back.
for the business to come back. So that's kind of like the one thing, right? Like,
So that's kind of like the one thing, right?
and we have a really solid foundation on what does it mean to make sure that the data is available
and there. And we know that with the way that we built the Jocker protocol,
we essentially, when a file drops, the blockchain detects it and then it heals from redundancy.
And we use Merkle proofs to randomly sample these files and know if they're alive and well.
So that's a really important piece.
But the thing that we're really focused on right now is essentially building a big context
graph around an organization's recovery posture so that an AI can find and fix these silent
failures.
Traditionally, when you want to know if your recovery is broken,
companies do this kind of, it's called a failover test.
And what a failover test is,
is they essentially choose a day that they're going to essentially move everything
onto a new platform, assuming a critical failure,
whether it's a cyber attack, error, whatever it might be,
and then try to see if the stuff goes back in.
Every time a company does this, the older they are, the worse it is.
They fail.
And the reason they fail is because it's too complicated.
And we think by building a context graph, and then instead of running this restore drill once a year for $500,000, these companies will be able to actually run these failover
tests using Respawn 730 times a year.
And then when you have that frequency, now you have real-time visibility into your recovery
posture rather than just doing it once a year and then hoping for the best.
So that's kind of where we are on a product front and so we're frantically
kind of building that direction because that's the thing that these guys really really resonate with
is we have to do essentially five things. So we connect with all these SaaS and cloud systems
agentlessly. We use APIs that are read only so that we can deploy in minutes instead of trying
to get their engineering teams and the whole nine yards on the same page to do it.
Then we have to build this recovery context graph.
So we start mapping out all the dependencies
and the order and the run books and all that good stuff.
So it's kind of like a living map
of what your recovery really depends on.
Next thing is we verify every 12 hours if you can recover.
Part of that is if they choose to put the backups on us, that is the Merkle proof. So we prove it with the chain.
And then on the other side of things, the things that aren't on chain, essentially what we would
do is we'd use AI in a context graph to find and fix those failures and then have AI first
remediation. What does that mean? A lot of buzzwords going
around right now. I'm just saying a bunch of words, but they don't make any sense. So essentially
when we're talking about AI remediation, when they get an error, when they try to do a recovery
drill, it'll say something like 504, the bandwidth, like, like, like myerson what's a 504 error it's just
like bandwidth issues i think this is what it is there's like a bajillion different errors yeah
there's absolutely an unreal amount of errors um but yeah one of the things that we've seen a lot
especially with like the google integrations is 504 errors for like timing out are all over the
place. So putting like getting data from Google when you know somebody in your organization is
running like superhuman email client or something it hogs your API requests for that user, because Google limits how many API requests
you can have per user. So even if it's not in the same product, like the user still getting
limited, no matter what. And so when we try and download from them, it fails with a timeout.
And usually that's not a good sign, because that means at least most of the time, you know, you might get lucky, but pretty much trying to put that data back into their account will suffer from the exact same failures.
So when we're looking at these accounts and we can see that we're getting these 504s, if we know that we're getting these 504s and we can kind of figure out why we're getting them and it's not just like a one-off thing. Then we're able to tell them, hey, your recovery process will probably fail here for this
user because Google does not like the rate limits that you're experiencing and there's nothing we
can do about that. So you have to go in and fix that. And then, you know, we become a little
co-pilot for them to show them exactly how to fix it.
And then hopefully in the future, when they trust the system more to do things on their behalf,
we can make a simple button that actually just goes and fixes it for them.
Perfect. So yeah, and then like, let's just kind of bring that I'm going to kind of distill that
down a little bit here. So basically, what Marsden's saying is before we'll do a before and after lame
and epic, um, before essentially what they do is once a year, they do a
disaster recovery drill and everything never works.
Um, and then they do it again the next year and then it doesn't work again
for a different reason.
They do it again the next year.
So we're proposing.
And then when something goes wrong, they get error 504,
like bandwidth, rate limits, timing out, whatever it might be. So then their team has to go figure
out why they're getting that error. And that is a lot of manpower. That's a lot of time. It's super
lame. So the after state that we're looking to give them here is instead of doing the drill once a year, we do it 730 times a year. Instead of saying, hey, 504 random error, go figure out what the issue
is. We say, hey, 504, this is what the issue is. This is where we think the issue is coming
from. In our case for the Gmail client example would be, hey, you have the shadow SaaS application
called superhuman that's in your environment. It's clogging your bandwidth. You can't do
recovery.
So, and then here, do you want us to fix it?
Or do you want to us to walk you through how to fix it?
So that is the before and after picture that we're looking to give.
And we've had some really, really awesome conversations with these CISOs about this,
right?
These CISOs have been first and foremost, the best but the um like the things that these guys have been saying to us is pretty crazy um I don't think we've had a single person say they
don't want it which is awesome so we're just we're going to be signing as many of these design
partners as possible and these are companies that are like from,
like we're talking like 300 employees all the way up to 10,000 employees of CISAs that we've talked to, which is extremely, extremely, extremely exciting. I just want to kind of pull up
like things that these guys have said to us really. Yeah, like we're looking at deal sizes from like $25,000 to $150,000 a year
for what Respawn does. And that's them saying the number, not us pushing the number.
So that is pretty special. So what we're looking at now in our ICP kind of bringing back to like,
okay, who buys something like this? It comes down to,
we spoke to everyone from small businesses all the way up to 10,000 person
enterprises. The small businesses don't care. The MSPs,
which is like a managed service provider.
They also don't care because their clients are small businesses.
Once people start to care is that the 300 employee plus mark,
that's where it really, really gets exciting. And the MSP said like, well, some of my clients would
want it. We say, okay, what kind of clients? They said, well, the ones with over a hundred
employees. So we were kind of narrowing in our ideal customer profile here to companies
with over 300 employees.
Once we get our design partners, then it's going to get more specific. It's going to be like companies that do food and beverage or restaurants that have over
X amount of employees and X amount of budget for IT.
And there's an IT team of like 10 people.
So that's what we're focusing on doing right now.
It's been really successful.
We've gotten 16 calls with CISOs from everything from Deloitte to Verizon to
manufacturing companies to oil and gas companies all the way down to like a 300 person team that
like operates for accountants for example. So it's been extremely exciting. I don't think I've been
this fired up in a really long time and I see the light at the end of the tunnel here. And I'm just excited.
Marston, we'll kind of kick it over to you
about what life looks like on your front.
And as we kind of figure out
what integrations we're gonna do first,
we did, ah, we had an OpenStack integration.
I think that's another thing.
Yeah, we did.
Yeah, we did have an OpenStack integration. Yeah, there's a lot of really good feedback we've been getting. So we've been shipping new features, new little tweaks integration. And essentially what that means is if you don't know,
OpenStack is a way for companies to like run their infrastructure,
either in the cloud somewhere or on their own services,
like their own data centers or in somebody else's data center and whatever.
But essentially it's like running your own little AWS.
And it's really cool. We've seen
a really big shift away from cloud services. And a lot of people are looking at things like
OpenStack right now because the cloud just gets so expensive. So they like running their own stuff.
So with that being said, we built out a system that will back up all their virtual machines.
It'll back up all of their identity services.
And that's just kind of dipping our toes into it
so that we can kind of test it out with some of the OpenStack users
before we fully 100% commit to fleshing out
the biggest OpenStack backup service that exists right now,
I want to say.
The whole time.
It would be crazy.
But we did that. and then we also added something
that we should have added a very long time ago,
which is S3 bucket support.
So now you can just back up S3 buckets.
Doesn't matter where that bucket is hosted,
whether that be AWS, whether that be like an OVH bucket, whether that be a Cloudflare bucket, whatever
it is, we've got that now.
And then we've also been working through kind of a big redesign on the dashboard, which
doesn't sound very exciting.
It's been a lot of just like little tweaks.
But one of the big things that we did do is improved a lot of our visibility stuff.
So now users are dropped to the dashboard where they see all the storage space they're using.
They see, you know, all of their stats for every single one of their sources that they've added.
And then kind of more importantly, they get this really, really nice alert box,
which shows them every kind of alert that they could have.
So the rate limits will show up.
If their S3 bucket permissions fail, that'll show up.
And not only will the error show up,
but kind of what we're saying is those AI context graph systems
come to play here where every time you get an error,
you don't have to interface with chat GPT or anything.
It just does it.
It just goes through and scans your entire infrastructure,
figures out why that error happened,
and reports to you, literally just in the box.
So we don't slap big old AI logos on everything,
but behind the scenes,
it's just running a really, really smart model
that we're looking and analyzing infrastructure with.
And it's doing a really good job right now, obviously.
It gets better as we learn, so that's really cool.
Every time somebody has an error,
we get to see what that error is
and what the AI
thought about that error so that we can go and kind of tune it, make it better,
make it learn from past experiences, which is really, really fun. So that's kind of hand in
hand with Dashboard. That's all implemented right there. And then, yeah, we've thrown in just a ton of little like bug fixes and stuff there too.
Not a lot to say about the bug fixes.
Some of the Stripe integration stuff was completed.
You know, a bunch of random timeout stuff from some of our services that we were seeing, but nothing too exciting.
I'm not sure technical stuff.
Oh, we also added a file browser.
That's a big one.
Yes.
We did add the file browser.
So now every time you have a backup,
you can go and actually like individually download files
out of that backup.
So you don't need to just like restore the whole thing.
You can just search for a file and you're good to go uh that works with virtual machines and everything like open stack too so if you have
like 10 virtual machines you'll see 10 files in there you just download the whole virtual machine
image if you want and go deploy it yourself on whatever service so very clean very easy
that's kind of been the goal and uh it's coming together pretty nice now. Oh yeah. Yeah. No, it kind of just comes down to yeah.
Like just backups aren't enough. We needed to do more.
And I think that by speaking with these like 16 CISOs and IT directors,
they've really, really helped us shape it.
Like some of them are really excited about where we're building.
One of them even has to be our advisor,
which is pretty cool that they're as
passionate about the whole recovery space and cyber resilient space as we are.
So yeah, ICP nailed down.
We kind of have three tiers of them.
Tier one is just kind of like CISOs at 1000 plus employee companies with $2
million plus IT budget.
Tier two is kind of IT directors at 300 to 1000 employees. And that's one to $2 million plus IT budget. Tier two is kind of IT directors at 300 to 1,000
employees and that's one to $2 million IT budget with a modern stack. And then tier three is just
enterprise SAS CISOs with like contractual RTO and RPO guarantees. That's where our head's at
right now. That's at least where my head's at right now. Me and Marston have been going from
call to call,
so we haven't even had an opportunity to sit down
and drill it down.
But yeah, it's like they're telling us if we build it,
then we're looking at like 50 to $150,000 a year contracts
for just what we're proposing right now.
So super exciting.
So we're just going to keep on
trucking we got like six goals tomorrow get these design partners closed and then 90 day sprint to
uh conversion from uh prototype to conversion so that is where we are. So I don't know if anyone wants to come up and chat with the fellas here.
Let me know.
But that's pretty much it, guys.
It's just chewing glass, really pushing on what's possible with Respawn.
And these guys are like our ICP.
I don't know, Marcy.
Maybe I'm just like saying that myself.
But like I'm getting kind of concerned that no one is saying no i know i know it's it's kind of a
weird spot where like in these calls we've basically been begging them to like tell us no
um and you know what we've gotten a gotten a few suggestions, especially with some of the backup solution stuff, when, of the organization being able to like actually like do
simulated recoveries when we talked about that you know that's when they they really got excited
and so i think part of the reason why we're not getting any no's is because we've like fine-tuned
some of the the messaging uh over the past couple weeks here,
but it's definitely like the response has been pretty sick,
like almost too good.
Yeah, it's been really sick.
I think just like nobody wants to do restore drills.
I think that's just like the truth of it.
No one wants to do a restore drill.
Like everyone hates to do them. And every single time they do them, they get told bad news.
So what if we just made restore drills like a real time thing that has visibility at all times that, you know, if you can you make recovery a binary state?
Can it be? Yes. No. It was like, can you recover right now? Yes.
Can you? And then when, when no, here is why and what to do to fix it rather than like.
And then when no, here is why and what to do to fix it rather than like it just lingering there.
Like every company walking around with broken recovery, they just don't know it until they do like a yearly drill.
And then we were talking to hospitals a couple of months ago and they say, yeah, like we want to do a restart drill.
But the reality is, is we can't afford to do it because it requires too many people and too much shit going on so we like
say like we're supposed to do these restore drills quarterly but we actually do them every two years
that's how much pain comes with doing these failovers and i think that what we're doing
is by creating a digital twin and running this autonomously all the time and then giving visibility and then finding and fixing the issues.
That's like a hell yeah from them. And yeah, and they're just like straight up. Yeah, I think I'd pay $150,000 a year for this if you guys can build it and deploy it. So I don't know. I think that the deal sizes are there.
sizes are there, the pricing is there, the yeah it's actually like pretty crazy. We have advisors,
we have VCs calling us now to deploy into this. It's a pretty special time. I think that we've
started to figure something out here and I am extremely excited about what comes next for Respawn,
and then that being said,
that all drips down to the Jocko protocol through the storage.
Yeah, I guess sometimes you just got to...
You can't just build all ones anymore.
You got to be the app player, too,
and I think that that's the reality,
and if you don't build distribution to the product you're cooked so um i feel a lot less cooked right now just because uh it's on us whole stack let's go fired up time to build
that is it if you guys have any questions um we got some people looking to come up
axmos you are on the way up my brother
hey guys can you hear me yeah we're here what's up hey long time no uh join
a talk uh with you guys happy new. So lots of respawn developments,
which is great. How does that affect the protocol? And what kind of data flow are we looking
at here? If some of this stuff starts to materialize or has it started materializing already? Are
we talking about like, where are the petabytes?
Yeah, no, it's definitely started to materialize already. You can see the stats, the protocol,
like pretty much all the data on Jack right right now is objectively us, plus like a few files from people using it like a Dropbox.
Okay, so Jackal stats is back online.
So I was just about to check before I.
Yeah, so you'll see a drop from like four and a half down to two and then it's on its way back up.
That's because we had to test.
We had to test the actual retention periods.
Okay. So everyone had like a freak out.
Oh, and that happened, but that was actually us.
But essentially what we're doing.
So we're integrating with just as many people.
And as you know, right, like we're building enterprise software right now for
security, are these deal sizes going to be really long and is it going to be really shitty to get there? And as you know, right, like we're building enterprise software right now for security.
Are these deal sizes going to be really long?
And is it going to be really shitty to get there?
Yes.
But when they do come, like we're talking about $150,000 a year deal sizes for software.
Yes, but what does that mean exactly, Patrick? Is that $150,000 billed by Respawn to these guys for services from Respawn?
$150,000 billed by Respawn to these guys for services from Respawn or is that, I mean,
$150,000 is roughly the cost of one petabyte for one year on Jackal.
So I'm just not sure where would that 150 be flowing to?
Yeah.
So essentially where the one flowing, like where it would be flowing to would be to Respawn,
which is a SaaS company, which chooses to put a stack onto Jackal because we have to figure out a way to
which chooses to put a stack onto Jackal because we have to figure out a way to
properly put data on the system, right?
So how much data is it going to be? It really depends on the organization, right?
So when we were talking with a 300 person accounting firm, so they have 300 people,
it's about six terabytes that they have plus then so like but like basis
is six terabytes would be going on then it depends on what their actual retention periods are so some
guys have different policies some guys do a incremental backup plus they have a snapshot
plus they have um retention for the monthly snapshots is seven years or 360 days and then the week the daily snapshots that's only a daily thing
right so i would say that there's going to be double that if not triple that on the storage front
for them but like that is like a accounting company that doesn't really have much when
we're speaking with other people um for example we're speaking with a MSP that operates museums
in Norway. Don't ask how this happened, but they reached out to us. They have, Marcion,
what did he say? Like, like it was something ridiculous. Oh, yeah, it was like, five petabytes of just like raw image data that they wanted to back up.
Yeah.
Wow.
Did they mention like a cost figure?
Like they know how much it costs to cloud store that?
Because from my research, it costs a lot of money, no matter who you go with.
Yeah.
That kind of data.
No, it's right now they're on AWS and they're moving to OpenStack and they're
looking to self-host it, but the backups can't be in the same environment, right?
So, like, they need to put that somewhere.
So, for us, that means we have to put it on to our decentralized storage network as the backup and then provide value on the front end with the AI stuff.
then provide value on the front end with the um ai stuff because like the backups alone and like
this is this is kind of comes down to the fundamental thing and like why this has taken
really long time is um like no one gives a about the just the storage to be honest unless like like
our the people that use jacko right now is like a small ICP,
either blockchain developers or individuals that really like self-custody
and privacy and security.
There's not that many of those people.
So to move data in size, we have to incorporate a backup system
into something that provides value, which happens to be Respawn.
So for these guys, for the museum guys, like they're heavily,
like they want backups for OpenStack.
That's what they care about.
When we're talking to other CISOs out there,
the backups is like a nice to have,
but like the actual value is like the front end stuff,
which we need the backups to do the front end stuff,
if that makes sense.
Okay.
So you need a front end that is differentiates like yeah and like
high real highly reflective of like the pain points that are out there right now exactly right
because like storage is storage is storage so and there's a request or like you're getting
feedback about like ai functions as well what are what are they looking for exactly? Yeah, so what these guys really care about is,
yeah, so what they really care about is backups are great
and we can prove that the backups are available and awesome,
but the pain points actually come with the recovery side of things.
So like when you try to put the backups back into the thing,
whether that's like an application that they're trying to get running
or whether it's like an application that they're trying to get running or whether it's their, a new Microsoft environment, because like some
shredding malware got in and just shredded everything.
Like the possibilities are endless.
Right.
So what they care about is like the silent failure modes between putting the backup,
the silent failure modes that happen when you're putting the backup back into the
production system, that's where everything goes wrong.
Egress.
Not really egress. It's more like configs are broken or like the SSO is dead or OAuth
is broken or like Shadow SAS is eating the bandwidth or just these silent failure modes
that you won't know until you do a failover drill. But the thing is, is no one does a
failover drill. They only do it once a year. So like the rest of the, the rest of the year, they're blind.
So what we're proposing and where we've been getting all the feedback, we've had about 16 calls with CISOs.
One of them asked to be an advisor.
The other one said, like, we are extremely interested in this is just taking the restore test from being a once per year thing.
And then turning it into something that's a real time thing that gets tested 730 times a year instead of once a year so that we can
find these errors, we can fix it.
And then the backup is the, that's like the backup and the proofs that are coming from
the chain becomes one of the inputs into our context graph where the AI then works to find
and fix these silent failures, if that makes sense.
Interesting. Highly technical stuff, but if that's what matters, that's what matters, right?
Keeps Larson on his toes.
Yeah, well, that's the thing, right?
We have to kind of think about Respawn as a SaaS application,
and the storage is one part of the SaaS application and there's like the storage is one
part of the SaaS application at the end of the day. And that is like, do we have competitive
advantages with the storage alone? Yes. Like we have proof of availability. We can autonomously
heal the backups from redundancy when things go wrong. We can do all that stuff, but that's like
one layer of the stack.
We essentially have to build an entirely second startup to make the protocol survive.
It's just awesome.
This will be rolled into Respawn?
These are going to be native features in Respawn or there's another startup?
No, it's all native features in Respawn.
Respawn is using Jackal instead of aws if
that makes sense yeah of course yeah so that is the uh like we have to have something that feeds
the machine yeah for us it responds like highly customer facing oh yeah so based on the uh extensive
conversations you're having with enterprise clients. It's like a reflection of those conversations.
You know what the pain is and you're addressing it.
That's pretty much it.
That is pretty much it.
And then like slightly off topic, I made a while ago,
it's been around in the unofficial chat group.
I haven't mentioned it to anybody who talked about it in a while, but I made like a landing page and put together some information
for a fictitious product called Obsidio that uses the Jackal blockchain on the back end for storage.
And it's just like a Python first interface.
So it would be like pip install Obsidio, right?
It's just like run it directly in your python workflow for machine learning because there's
there's petabytes there as well i could just throw that i mean i've even spoken to marston about it
a while back and he he had some interest in it but the idea has been developed a bit further so
maybe i should show it to you guys again this week dude that would be awesome um let us know
how we can help you in any way obviously like we control the jackal account so like anything that
we can do to promote you on that front anything Obviously, we're a small team building a fucking startup and
a blockchain protocol. You have to yell pretty loud to get our attention, unfortunately,
but we're here as much as we can do to help you. We're right there with you.
Cool. Cool. Very cool. Yeah. Okay,, I'll keep watching it. And so we should expect to see terabytes moving on to on jackal stats, like within the next couple of weeks here, I guess.
Yeah, that is steady. That climb is expected that steady climb is expected to continue. And, and I think it's an exponential curve that this getting formed there. But you know, time will tell, right? That is the thing, right? And it also just depends on, like, there's three
priorities here. Priority number one is, like, get us stable, so that we can actually, like, continue
the thing. So, make sure we can pay all of our info builds, do all that stuff. So, that's priority
number one, get that, like, really solidified. And then obviously they were buying storage from the protocol already.
So it's just a byproduct of doing that.
And, um, yeah, it on the client stuff, I essentially what we're looking for is we're
looking for terabytes and petabytes and like all these design partnerships, I am
expecting them to start pretty light.
So it might just be like, oh, like, let's start with the SharePoint in this
organization with 10,000 people or 300 people, whatever it might be.
So then we're going to start with those things and then we're going to
deploy outwards from there.
We have to,
Oh, if you guys can get a, if you guys can get a petabyte, then that'd be
pretty amazing.
Once you hit the first petabyte, we should have a meetup or a Jackal
conference.
Yeah.
I don't know where you guys have a party. Yeah. The petabyte party, dude. first petabyte, we should have a meetup or a jackal conference. I don't know where.
Have a party.
The petabyte party, dude.
The petabyte party.
It'd be wild.
We'll even invite Crypto Sailor or maybe not.
I don't know.
We think about that.
We can get all the calls.
It's pretty dark around here in Cosmos recently.
Holy, yeah.
There's not much.
You guys would know better than me, but just because we've been so heads down like who's still alive um do we know it's
yelling to left i saw that from noble like i guess the hub has consolidated a lot of teams
stargaze team did they end up selling the stuff to the hub?
Do you guys know?
I have no idea.
I'm going to hop off here because you've answered all the questions that I can think of right now.
All right.
Take it easy.
Come back next week.
Take care, guys.
Take it easy.
If anyone else wants to come up and chat with the fellas here, we're good to go.
But if not, we have work to do we have work to do
we got to build our way out of this cosmos dwelling yes sir we do
so there we go
crypto sailor you're coming up
you're live i'm on the show wow great to be here guys i wanted to just say uh thanks for great work
um i've been trying to be as supportive of the project as possible.
I know it's a big struggle that you guys have done.
And it's very impressive what you've done, given the circumstances.
And congratulations for making all the breakthroughs that you're making,
hearing the news that you're talking about.
It was just a matter of time from my perspective until you did find the right channels to get through
and do what is, as you said, needed to be done,
which is get end-user products into people's hands.
You can't just afford to focus on a layer one.
So excellent job.
I wanted to congratulate you on that
because I'm not sure if you hear a lot of positive
that means a ton dude that means so much um thank you it's uh it's been it's been rough
it's been a rough couple years but you know what like important companies it's everyone
that thinks it's overnight success it's always it's always like you look into any company, it's years, it's always
years and just slugging it out, but it means a ton and you're a hundred percent right.
Like we built Jackal on the thesis that there were going to be more blockchain
based developers tomorrow than they would be today.
And then there were going to be more blockchain based developers tomorrow
than today that are building data heavy applications and that um that was not true and we had to invalidate that and it took us
a while to involve i wish we invalidated it quicker actually but it's uh yeah it's oh i see okay
interesting okay well it was just a target market thing so that's fine it's no it's not it's not a problem like like obviously like the
protocol gets better the better we the better we know um what the majority people are using it for
the easier it is for us to actually make the protocol better for that use case right because
it can't be everything to everyone obviously like the l1 thesis hasn't done so hot um i i think that i'm still extremely
bullish on app chain thesis i think that blockchain should be purpose-built for a specific use case
and uh that was what jack was all about but it just came down to um like there's stats that
are out there about unique blockchain developers um they're starting to just conglomerate into different hubs, focus on specific things.
And yeah, no, it was a targeting issue.
It made sense back then.
It was exponential.
But after Terra collapsed, it fell off a cliff.
So we had to kind of put on our big boy pants and build some build some applications that and we built so many right like
we we built how many applications like 10 radiant and then we had vault and then we had drive and
then vaulting 10 and then radiant and then uh 10 then um oh there's the blog platform that existed for like yeah a month yeah
yeah well that's yeah that's really great news also um i understand you guys are extremely busy
one thing i'm always trying to advocate in the cryptic spaces you know collaboration and cross
support so i think there's a lot of great projects out there especially in the Crypt of Spaces collaboration and cross support.
So I think there's a lot of great projects out there,
especially in the Cosmos ecosystem.
And there's not a lot of synergy, it seems,
between what otherwise could be some synergies. So I'll try to make sure that everybody hears about you guys
and Respawn and Cygia and Valia is a really great uh kind of takeover of what the
vault is it is really good i know that um i don't know like we we some people are talking shit about
that but i think that's ridiculous i'm i'm really excited for what he's building and i'm i wish him
all the best yeah i'm not sure where that would be coming from.
I think there's issues in a lot of crypto communities.
I'm not sure how aware of this you are.
I've been highly involved in this space for like 15 years.
But I've been spending a lot of time on social media for the last few years.
And I can guarantee you that there are agent saboteurs in most crypto communities.
I've never even thought about that.
They will absolutely intentionally spread FUD.
I've been able to out some of them and catch some of them,
and they will run when you catch them.
If you think somebody is being an agent saboteur when you're engaging with them,
usually if you call them out for that,
I guess in some circumstances it might even be
being paid to do it maybe got by competitors or something and they they will up and leave
that's my experience anyway that's insane I don't know like um yeah it might actually be like the
net negative I've never like there's a cost-bene benefit analysis like our our communities has always been we've
a really like strong like small community um it's always like yeah it's fascinating there are some
notables there are some notables as you know that's what I'm saying of course but like uh
those people are important in my opinion um because we need to be checked as well.
And we need to keep on underwriting our thesis.
And that's, yeah, it does suck to be like people to like just talk a bunch of shit at you.
Yeah.
But at the same time, like there's a, there's a stoicism aspect of it as well, right?
Like it forces you to re-underwrite your thesis, figure out what you can control, what you can't control.
Make sure that you make all the decisions that are in the best interest of what you think is the best thing to do.
But, yeah, man, it's a wild space.
The community should be overall in a positive situation.
I've read many, many things that were not what I would consider positive contributions and just criticizing mostly because of charts or what a lot of people who are unsophisticated about understanding the technology and the complications of delivery to market think is not advantageous to the charts in the short term.
These kinds of attitudes are bringing a lot of other people down in terms of what they would maybe otherwise be doing in engagement in the community and especially on social media.
on social media. One of the things that I always point out to a lot of great, to every, you know,
I would say this to every great tech project is there are tons of people losing a lot of money
in the crypto casino and they're going into these shit tokens and these drifters who run these shit
token pump and dumps, you know, factories, they're the ones getting that money. That money would be
much, much better put, even if just for pure speculative
reasons, into tokens that represented actual value. So it's not as if it's the only angle
for success of a crypto project is just the utility and just promoting to end users. There's
a lot of people who would be better off having their money in jackal tokens than tons of other disclosures.
So it's not as if that can't be another aspect of it.
Yeah, well, there's two pieces there, right?
And I think we've been in the space since what, Marston, like 2020.
A lot of people have been here longer than us.
We're pretty close to the wire, though, so I feel like we have a pretty good idea of
how these things operate.
The thing that frustrates me the most is people think that we got personally wealthy somehow.
You can just look at our wallets on chain and it's just not the games, unfortunately.
But the second thing that people don't understand how these tokens work and they think that all tokens are the same when they're not.
It's Jackal is wired right now and it's current. You can criticize the design.
And I think that there's a lot of criticism that is valid in the Cosmos ecosystem based on like overall
CapEx versus what is actually needed, right?
Like does your protocol need to be fully decentralized with maximum CapEx when you have like 1,172
users?
Probably not.
So like the overbuild of the CapEx has always been a big problem in crypto, whether it's deep in networks, whether it's just blockchains to begin with.
And then decentralized from there when it makes sense.
That's like one big thing.
But the way that our protocol is wired and is Jackal makes money when people purchase storage.
That person can be a smart contract.
It can be a human.
It could be an end user individual. It could be a business, it could be another startup, right? And if we
like $2 million of net buy pressure onto the protocol sends it to a billion dollar valuation with the current liquidity profile. So that's the other thing that people don't really fully appreciate is like, what are the liquidity profiles like at least things and how these things operate in general?
Just because we get $2 million of net bribe pressure, does that mean that's a billion dollar protocol?
I would argue like mathematically, I don't think it's worth $ million dollars of revenue but i mean like that like that okay so valuations obviously especially in emerging technology there are many many multiples of
whatever fundamentals you could potentially try to derive it from and um decentralized applications
jackal bitcoin ethereum it fundamentally functions on the flywheel effect of which
the token value is a part of that because primarily it's not maybe as critically with Jackal,
but generally with blockchain technology or networks, that is providing your economic security for the protocol as well.
Of course.
And that encourages further trust in the protocol.
trust in the protocol. So it's all about network effects in multiple dimensions.
So it's all about network effects in multiple dimensions.
So that's why I always say, and this is my hashtag that I can never get traction for,
it's okay to hype good crypto.
Because that's the end argument that I always make with deceit.
This is so many people are putting money into things that have like valuation multiples that
are literally infinity because there is no fundamental valuation that could be put on
these things so you know like it works all together and i think if if there was more of
a push for positivity in the jacquardockley community and activity in helping at least get the message out to people that, hey, you know, you could put your money in shit.
Or you could put your money where it's going to be part of at least a chance of being a sustainable, large scale, you know, really possibly critical infrastructure for the future of the Internet kind of protocol thing.
infrastructure for the future of the internet kind of protocol things so that's that's my two
cents on making sure that you know getting the news out on social media might not get you more
data purchases or whatever but engagement with the token is also can also contribute to the
success of the protocol on the technical side yeah no you're 100 right like obviously marketing obviously super important super
important we just like the other thing is just the marketing is extremely important we've invested
in marketing before we continue to invest in marketing where we can but um it's it's just
things are expensive too right so we just got to do everything that we can with what we have
at this point but uh yeah at the end of the day.
I'm continually reply guy to big channels about things like Respond or like real tech.
They're talking about absolute garbage like Pepe or whatever literal shit token that there is.
And then they sit there.
Everybody in crypto is wondering, how can crypto six? Well, all these influencers are just cheering the market with these endless pumping dumps
so if if a lot of these channels focused on real tech like jackal then uh then that whole entire
industry would be healthier and maybe not have the reputation that it has yeah i i think that
it's just going to mature over time too right
like we we like to say that like yeah is the technology really that great um when we first
started no it's like the docs don't exist like not i'm not talking about like our protocol i'm
talking about like the building blocks to build protocols it has been getting exponentially
better um the tech has been getting way way better in a pretty short amount of time from the
wallet infrastructure to like just the libraries to all that stuff.
Cosmos has been gotten hit pretty hard post-TERRA, obviously.
And yeah, there's always like the tech stack conversations about what stack
do you build on and what network effects do you want to inherit? That's a big thing as
well, right? But I think that there's a lot of value being made in things that make a
lot of sense. I think D-Pen makes a lot lot of sense i don't think anyone's cracked the model yet um where like people are doing the build out and like we kind of had to make the decision to
go to real yield for the storage providers just because like we didn't need like petabytes of
capacity and at one point we had petabytes of capacity um but if you don't have the demand
side and you have this bootstrap supply side, it doesn't really make any sense.
Yeah, but you guys are on the path to cracking it
because you found the market and there's no direct competition
for the unique value proposition.
No, 100%.
Yeah.
And also another aspect I will add to that is I absolutely was super pro you guys taking on board more funding if that's possible. alleviate maybe a lot of the treasury concerns or something like this that would uh maybe make you
more or less interested in seeking outside funding so anyways yeah that's i appreciate
you humoring my conversation it all boils down to my idea that it's okay for us to hype good crypto
it's okay to hype good crypto guys i back that um i do back that. Yeah, no, you're 100% correct.
The funding thing,
like really, it would be the money from the funding would
be invested into Respawn primarily because like the whole goal here is to make Respawn standalone so that like we can feed the protocol at the end of the day.
So like the funding that we need would be primarily on the go-to-market and all that stuff on the respawn side of things the
protocol is stable protocol has been great um objectively for quite a while and like the way
that we've been building out respawn has actually helped that a lot too because like we're the
primary user of our own protocol right now so it's it's a really interesting time and that is
100 correct where do will we need funding for respawn i will probably need a little bit of
funding to be honest to get out of the gate i'll try and keep doing i'll try and keep doing my job
my my goal is to try and convince one of these shit token whores i pardon me, that's bad language, I try to convince one of these influencer channels
to realize that if, like, think about it this way,
if you were to get on one of these token pump and dumps,
it inevitably ends up in a dump because there's no utility.
If you were due to the same thing with Jackal
or any one of a number of real utility tokens,
if you pump the token, it doesn't necessarily dump because, as you said, there's technical repercussions positively for the increased at least economic security of the protocol as well as notoriety of maybe its utility.
So there's no need.
It doesn't necessarily dump.
In the early days of Bitcoin, we pumped the hell out of it.
You know what I'm saying?
There's a real path for sustainability, even if you want to just convince some people to get it on a purely speculative level.
It can be a net benefit.
It's not a zero-sum game, right?
Not financial advice, but $2 million in net buy pressure
sends it to a billion-dollar valuation.
Are you kidding?
That's not very much.
But it's also because of the liquidity profile, right?
And the liquidity issue, it comes down to also access.
I think that we have the right ingredients,
especially with the AeroJump pools
to get access to the token. But there was a bunch of things that like really hurt us
as well on that front was like the Osmo pair. The Osmo pair was a big ouch and that was a mistake,
but we weren't able, this was in 2021 where you weren't
able to get liquidity incentives unless you paired with osmo they stopped that years after we did
that but that was a crazy thing but also like the archway pair where those guys wanted to be pretty
involved in protocol and the pairs the pairs, the pairs are important.
Pairs are really important.
I'm happy that we kind of have an ETH pair now.
So at least be more stable in general, less volatile.
Obviously, it's crypto, so everything's volatile.
You know what I mean?
All right.
Excellent work.
Thanks.
I'll keep on that side as well myself.
Good job to everybody.
Congratulations. It's's just you're just
there you're just at the cusp why are you gonna roll over the hill soon that is uh that would be
nice that'd be nice i i think that we're we're onto something and we're in a really special time
right now if i'm being honest it's uh this is i think we got it i I think we have it now.
And who knows?
Like, obviously, like, there's a number of possibilities out there.
But I think there's a high probability of success with Respawn right now at the direction that is going in the target market,
what they're saying to us.
It's pretty special stuff.
Really appreciate it.
If anyone else has any other wants to come up
that with the fellas let me know but uh if not we got to get back to work here
back to the grindstone
all right guys really appreciate it thanks for coming out and we'll see you guys in two weeks
sorry about the hour delay i could not get out of the doctor's office which i
welcome to canada by the way i was on a wait list for seven maybe five years for five years to get a
family doctor nice insane free health care apparently guys uh but uh it's just absolutely
diabolical.
Finally got it.
And then I had to sit there for like five hours.
So if you guys are not in Canada and enjoy your healthcare,
because it's not fun over here.
Anyways,
take it easy everyone.
Have a great rest of the week.
Host
JACKAL
from
Jackal Protocol
