Alright, so it's round two. Round two. Anyone?
That was good. That was really good.
Yeah, here we go. We get to start the space one more time. Classic Twitter.
We should go be good to go and I want to wait a few more minutes if anyone wants to come up Jay though you requested.
We got badger by listening as well I'd say blessed with your presence sir.
Alright ends up here which is good.
We have a few more minutes here before we get going, but it's been pretty busy, pretty busy.
Yeah, I mean, radiant launch, not long ago at all, and it's been a really fun, fun ride so that's been a crazy week.
That's been a crazy week and we got something cooking right now hopefully it won't take too much longer to get up, up and running but do you want to talk about that for like the start of like this new kind of little alpha that we're going to be releasing pretty soon.
I guess, Aaron, do you want to come up as a speaker too because it's kind of been kind of been our grind, a little bit for the past little while.
Yeah, anyways, I mean I guess while we wait if Aaron does come up.
Yeah, I mean it's been, it's been pretty fun. Valentine's Day, for some reason, has been a really fun day for for jackal labs. I don't know why Valentine's Day, but
what was it two years ago, Valentine's Day we launched the beta of, was it the alpha, yeah, of our dashboard.
And that was kind of the start of our protocol, kind of really getting eyes on it which was really exciting.
You know, it was, it was kind of the first time people got a chance to use jackal storage in definitely an unfinished state, but it was really exciting for for us as a team, watching people test things out, you know, getting feedback for the first
time on the dashboard and the protocol as a whole rather than, you know, just the theory of it which was really really crazy.
So, yeah, I mean, Valentine's Day has always been this weird special day for jackal labs, and as such, this year we we wanted to drop a little bit more alpha of another product that we're going to be launching soon.
Currently it's it's titled beacon, and with the launch of radiant we've got a lot of requests for a product like beacon, which is really funny because it's something that we've had kind of in progress for a little while now.
But we really wanted to kind of flesh it out, put some more finishing touches on it over the past day and a half to get it ready for Valentine's Day.
But essentially what it is, is it is a publishing platform. It's, it's a place where you can go. You have kind of like your, your dashboard where you have your editor.
And that editor is very very powerful you can think of it almost like a Google Docs or like a Microsoft Word editor.
You can like embed images, you can put videos in it, you can format it you can put headings you can, you know, paragraphs, everything all that good stuff.
And the really exciting thing is, is all of this work that you're doing in this editor can be saved to the jackal protocol.
And we kind of have two ways of doing this. One is kind of your private storage section where you have your, your drafts. So these are things that, you know, only you can see, nobody else can see them.
They're all sitting there in a drafts folder on your jackal account, which lets you kind of like, you know, start working on something, stop working on something, come back to it, and you're all good to go.
And you don't have to worry about, you know, those files being public while you're working on them. So if you're waiting to, you know, write up the world's best article.
Nobody's going to know that articles being written until you actually decide to publish it.
And then kind of the second option for you, which is where it gets really exciting is the idea that you can publish your files in a very similar way that radiant works.
You know, you can put something up publicly for 200 years. That's really exciting.
It was really like a good use case for things like NFTs, you know, posting like PDF white papers, all that good stuff.
But there was really no way to like edit in a dashboard and have it all unified.
So with this option, you can kind of think of it like a medium or like a mirror where you have your editor, you type up your article, you do all that good stuff.
And then you just click publish and it goes live to the JACL protocol for 200 years publicly.
That file is now there and it is added to your account, which is basically, again, another file that's stored on JACL.
So all of your published documents live as references in this in this grand file that anybody can go and look at because that file is also public, which is really exciting.
What that lets us do is it lets us build kind of like user profile pages.
So you can go, you can visit somebody's user profile.
It'll list out all the articles that they published, which is, again, much better user experience than radiant, where you have to like upload something and then, you know, hand somebody the link to that file.
On this platform, you can simply just give someone your RNS name.
They can go to the beacon website and just simply do slash whatever your RNS name is or slash your JACL address if you don't want to use RNS.
But, you know, RNS is really helpful.
And this is another really great use case for RNS where, you know, my RNS is like Marston.
So instead of handing somebody my super long JACL address, I can just say, go to beacon, my username is Marston, and then they can view all my articles that I've ever published right there, which is really, really exciting.
And then from there, you know, you just click on whatever article you want to read.
It brings it up in this full kind of view where whatever you had in the editor pops up on your screen, which is really, really cool.
And again, all that's stored on JACL, you know, if you upload a file into these documents, that file is stored on JACL.
So there's no centralized third party or anything involved in any of this.
You know, like with Medium, obviously, it's a very central system, which sucks for data ownership.
There's a huge idea of like censorship over on Medium, where that platform fully controls everything that you can say.
Mirror is a bit better where you like sign in with your wallet and all that good stuff.
But at the end of the day, every file you upload to Mirror is going through a central bridge to get over to Arweave.
So in theory, Mirror could censor the data that you upload on upload time, which also super sucks.
Beacon is fully decentralized.
Everything that you do is from your wallet.
You sign the transactions yourself.
You post it straight to JACL.
It is just a place for you to go write articles, write whatever you want and upload it forever, which is really, really exciting.
And we're really working on the user experience.
And that's kind of why we're trying to drop this alpha today so that we can get people kind of in there playing around in a more kind of not unfinished state.
But it's not as polished as Radiant was when it launched because we really wanted to get this alpha out to you as like a Valentine's Day alpha gift that we do.
It's a Valentine's Day gift, of course.
The beautiful thing about it at the end of the day, it's just like a blogging or publishing platform where really you go on there.
You can and really just upload and publish it.
And it's stored on JACL forever, which is cool as soon as we get the radiant integration for it.
And the other thing, the kind of cool thing about it as well is it leverages JACL's both technology of the privacy
and public where while you are currently like writing it or you want to say a different draft, so you want to update your draft, you have the beautiful nature of just having it self-custodially owned
and encrypted and protected by your JACL account in the event that you want to go publish it, then you can go public with it and publish it for all the world to see, which is beautiful.
I'm excited for this one.
We have to start writing blogs and a whole nine yards on it, which would be great.
But that's that's pretty much everything on that side of things.
I know B's been wanting to come to a space for a little bit.
I don't think he's here right now because he's out.
But there's some really cool developments that are happening on the JACL outpost front, which is an interesting thing in its own right, where essentially we have this wonderful breakthrough where we're like running JACL.
All of JACL's functionality is now available across chain where we're able to deploy smart contracts on other blockchains.
So any user on that chain can just access the storage locally.
I know he's been working really hard.
So I'll I'll leave it to him maybe on the next town hall when he's here.
But he's been working with the Interchain Foundation on that.
And it's been pretty fascinating to begin with and just having breakthroughs like that for the Cosmos ecosystem as a whole.
Marston, kind of like regarding that specific like app chains running as smart contracts and other chains breakthrough.
You mentioned some stuff about kind of like not only can we leverage this for JACL, but like other projects can leverage as well.
You can think about different integrations for like DEXs or lending protocols.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on that specifically.
There is a really cool kind of shift that I think we're going to see in the next little while.
And we're really proud that JACL is kind of helping lead that shift in the way that we view IBC applications.
Essentially, what we're trying to do is for blockchains like Archway, like Juno, even like Osmosis, which has Cosmos enabled.
In theory, with with the Cosmos running on those platforms, JACL can kind of hook in over IBC as Cosmos hooks.
So what that means is like what we're able to do is you're able to deploy a smart contract on any platform with Cosmos and running.
And then from there, that smart contract is able to make transactions on the JACL protocol using interchain accounts, which is really, really awesome.
Huge thank you to Surdar for for working on this.
I know he's been working really hard with his project.
I know it was going through DoraHacks.
So that's we've been working with him a lot on this project to make sure that everything is really good.
But he kind of started the whole cause and was an interchain account stuff.
And we're just kind of the first protocol really trying to leverage that in production, which is really, really exciting for for us.
And in my opinion, the IBC ecosystem as a whole, you can kind of think of it like if the JACL protocol was simply a smart contract on another platform.
There's no, you know, you don't have to have JACL in your Kepler wallet enabled to go and interact with it.
You just use Juno and you sign transactions on Juno and then boom, you have JACL storage.
It's it's a really exciting thing for our protocol.
But you can kind of leverage this in different ways.
I know we've been talking a lot about like internally how this can be applied to kind of just the greater cosmos as a whole rather than just just our protocol.
And I really like to use Mars as an example because I really like Mars and I think that their interface is great.
I think their platform is really great.
The one thing that I don't like about Mars is the fragmentation between it being deployed on osmosis and it being deployed on neutral.
That's really my only gripe with that protocol.
And that's just kind of due to the nature of how the IBC works right now.
What we have been kind of like thinking about is, in theory, a protocol like Mars could deploy itself as its own blockchain, which Mars does have a blockchain.
I know there's a whole bunch of discussions over there about what to do with it.
But in theory, you know, like a protocol like Mars could deploy itself as its own blockchain instead of as a smart contract on another protocol.
And then from there, it can deploy smart contracts on those other protocols in the same way that JACL is doing it for interchain accounts.
And then, you know, somebody from Neutron, somebody from osmosis, somebody from Archway, they can all use the same liquidity pools and never feel like they're leaving their own platform.
So, you know, Archway users can pay in gas with Archway.
They can interact with the protocol through their Archway address.
Osmosis users can just use their osmosis accounts.
They can pay an osmosis gas, and they'll be able to send and receive tokens from that kind of central blockchain.
But they won't even know that they're doing it because it will feel like they're using smart contracts, which is really, really exciting because that allows you to kind of take away some of the fragmentation that we often see in Cosmos and IBC right now
and kind of just centralize it into a decentralized manner where, you know, right now, Mars has liquidity on Neutron.
They have liquidity on osmosis.
Imagine if those two combined and we didn't have different APRs across the two platforms.
What if it was just one platform that every other blockchain could access?
And that's kind of what we're aiming for here is with JACL.
Same idea where, you know, everyone can access JACL from any protocol, but now they don't even need to know they're using the JACL protocol directly.
It'll just be like JACL is deployed on Archway.
Even though it's not deployed on Archway, it'll feel like it is, which is really, really exciting for the JACL protocol as a whole, but also just like Archway users, Juno users, Neutron users.
They'll basically just get JACL storage on their protocol without needing to really do anything because it'll just be like a smart contract.
So we're super excited about that.
If he was here, he'd do a better job of explaining it.
Well, like the really cool thing about that overall is it reduces like the whole thing about Cosmos.
And the one thing that everyone says, oh, Cosmos is the worst is because of this one specific thing, which is like UX fragmentation, right?
Where you're kind of like feel like you have a lot more clicks to get specific things done, right?
So if I want to go buy a storage account, for example, and I'm currently a user on Juno,
I have to bridge my assets on Juno to Osmosis or the Archway for Astro Vault.
I'm going to swap it into JACL, then I'm going to bridge it over to JACL, then I'm going to purchase the storage account that I can upload.
The beautiful thing about this advancement is now you can just do it locally,
where if you're on Juno, you can stay on Juno, you can purchase a storage account, you can upload your files, you can retrieve your file.
You can do all of that stuff just locally from Juno.
And it's such a groundbreaking breakthrough, essentially, when it comes to just Cosmos UX as a whole, from my opinion.
And just kind of getting the Cosmos more unified from user experience across the board, I think it's great.
And I think we're going to see a lot more of this.
And it's really just the beginning of kind of having app chains integrate at the smart contract level for things that are outside of just token transfers via IBC,
just leveraging it for UX advancements as well.
Jayo, I want to pass the puck over to you as we are Canadian.
We do say puck up here, unfortunately.
What's going on in your world right now? How are you doing?
I'm doing well. I like the reference. Very Canadian of you.
I know that we didn't meet here last week, and I was scrambling at the beginning of the call to make sure I had all my notes in order,
because there's been a lot that's happened over the past 14 days.
Quick high level overview from a business development and partnerships perspective.
We had two announcements just between the last time we met and now.
The first one was a project called COIN, which is a gaming protocol from the Cosmos,
just a local team that we've met with a couple of times and are building some cool projects,
as well as another project called TIMPY.
They're a decentralized search engine and an index.
We announced that yesterday, I believe, and we've got a space coming up on Friday that we would love to see as many of you in attendance for as possible.
Keep your eyes peeled. We've got another partnership announcement probably in the next day or two with SOAR Chain.
They're a deep in L1 that are leveraging the data that cars produce, which is really, really interesting.
Outside of that, Patrick and I have been building almost like a map of zones for the JACL partnership ecosystem,
just so that we can get a visual representation of all of the projects and all of the teams that we're currently working with,
as well as all of the projects and all of the teams that we're not currently working with that we want to.
Yeah, so a lot's going on, but we're keeping things exciting over here for sure.
No, the beauty side of things is always exciting at JACL Labs.
A lot of interviews, a lot of door knocking and just kind of getting integrated with as many unique people as possible.
The weather, I'm really excited about is SOAR Chain overall.
I don't know if anyone here has met them before, but they're pretty fascinating,
where essentially they do vehicle connectivity where they plug these physical devices directly into people's cars,
and then you're able to accumulate that data, and then it can change a variety of things.
It's a deep in network just for vehicles, but you can change things like how insurance is done.
You can change things how streets are built or city planning is done by just leveraging this data
so you can figure out where people slow down or where we're having issues,
where people are hitting potholes a lot and things like that just to allocate resources,
and I think it's really cool.
I'm super excited for that overall.
But yeah, that's kind of everything on the beauty front right now moving kind of into radiance.
So this was two days ago.
This was like our first kind of launch of like a full fledged decentralized application.
We've had like Stratus, for example, which is a centralized API for businesses that are web-tooted on board to Jackal for other reasons
other than like privacy and security posture.
They're kind of more focusing on geo-redundancy and redundant backups with SLAs.
But the cool thing about Radiant is now we not only have like one side of the scale
where there's like super secure self-custodial ownership data storage like a Dropbox.
No one can get into that other than you.
And that's like the Jackal drive, right?
We decided for the next application to go all the way to the other side of the scale
where now we have like public publishing platform where you can like publicly store files forever
and then make them easily accessible.
This is really cool where now you can kind of have like storage for 200 years
for things that you don't necessarily want to be public, private for example.
My NFT, I want to make sure that no matter what happens if like an Amazon server goes down or something happens
and the marketplaces or the developers that built the NFT project lose their NFTs
it's awesome to kind of have it on Radiant.
So I went back and I uploaded all of my NFTs to Radiant to make sure I got my bases covered there.
But it's a cool platform for anything that you kind of want to publicly publish.
And that goes hand in hand into this new application
where you can actually like do Google Drive style things
where you can like write up articles or write up blogs or just write notes and stuff like that.
I usually mark down and just publish it directly to Jackal as well.
So we have one side with the Jackal drive.
We have the other side with Radiant which is public.
And then right in the middle now we have this other application that's going to be coming out
where it's like it's essentially just uses the benefits of both
where for your drafts they're private but for publishing your blogs is public.
And I'm excited kind of for these next few days.
On that front, outside of that Maristyn, pretty much any updates for kind of forward looking right now.
I know V4 is still in the pipeline. We've got to get that out in Q2.
So it's at times ticking on that.
But relative to our roadmap that we published,
it looks like we're hitting everything right now.
Shepherd's up and running, Radiant's up and running.
We slipped another app in there that's hopefully going to be coming out soon.
We started the working group where we're essentially like doing one-on-one meetings
with everyone that's looking to join it right now.
If you're interested, there was a publication on the Jackal Twitter
where if you want to join the working group, you can go there and slot yourself in.
And then we'll talk with you one-on-one and get you over into the working group
so we can start kind of getting those build measure alert feedback loops going really quickly
But working group, Radiant, Ledger support, Shepherd, Outpost stage one,
that's pretty much complete, Arbitrum pool.
We got to launch that where we're going to kind of have some Jackal liquidity over on Ethereum
so we can onboard those users.
And we slipped in another application.
Hopefully we're going to be launching pretty soon.
But forward-looking, Maristyn, what are you excited for?
Kind of end to Q1, end to Q2.
Yeah, I mean, V4 is huge.
I'm still really hyped for V4.
Admittedly, I really like the way that these apps like Radiant are coming out right now.
We're kind of at a good spot where we're hitting these kind of application-driven milestones
which are really exciting rather than just raw infrastructure.
You know, I love infrastructure, obviously.
It's what we work on 99% of the time.
But having these applications that are like tangible real use cases that people can see and use,
those really, really excite me.
They feel like this abstract concept that is Jackal is becoming far more real from a user perspective
which is really, really exciting.
That's kind of like, as always, V4 is huge for me.
I love V4 and I think everybody else is going to love V4.
But it is a lot of stuff in the background to make sure that the chain runs smooth.
Most users probably aren't going to notice it except for maybe some speed boosts here and there.
But the main thing that I'm really excited for is these applications.
And even something like Radiant with all of that interchange account stuff,
there's no reason why Radiant can't also run on Juno, why it can't run on Archway.
And you can kind of just pick the network that you want to connect with and Radiant will simply work,
which I'm really, really excited for.
So a lot of the stuff that's happening in Q2 and Q1 as well is I think there's going to be a lot of networking effects
between them all to just really turn into a much broader ecosystem really, really quickly,
which I'm really excited about that.
We're all watching Jackal.
Jackal's growing right before our eyes.
We now have three applications, well, almost three applications,
and we have the API up and running and enterprises are onboarding to the API.
I don't know if we've told everyone about this yet, but there's going to be a full announcement,
hopefully coming pretty soon, where we're onboarding a telecom company in the United States
where they're looking to protect their user data.
They need to do backups, and Jackal is really, really good at that.
So that's kind of where our focus is right now.
If anyone knows of any but two businesses that need to do backups
or currently have backups and want to save some money, reach out to myself or Jayden
and we can get them into the pipeline as well, even just to reach out to them and chat with them,
figure out if Jackal's like fits their needs, doesn't fit their needs,
learn how we can improve, all that good stuff.
If anyone has any questions, feel free to come up.
We have kind of been running for 35 minutes now, just us preaching the Jackal news to everyone.
So if you have any questions, feel free to request to join.
In the meantime, what are you guys excited for right now at Cosmos ecosystem, Marston?
Is there anything that's catching your eye right now, just from like a meta perspective of everything going on?
You know, I've just really been focused on the Interchain account stuff recently and been thinking about that.
So I mean, that's kind of where my head's been at is just Interchain accounts for everything if possible.
And I mean, I say it, I think every time account abstraction is huge and pairing that with Interchain accounts,
it's just going to be like nuts.
Yeah, I know the account abstraction, it's one of those things where now you have like smart contracts
acting as individuals and it does wonders for just user experience in general, if I'm thinking correctly.
And like, what would be your favorite like application of account abstraction, like for our use cases or beyond?
Yeah, I mean, I think a huge one is being able to have an account with like kind of a it would still be this like self custodial system
where you have an interface where you enter a password that only you know and through a bunch of like zk proofs,
it'll prove that you know that password and then you can just submit a transaction from any wallet.
So in theory, you can kind of sign a transaction from somebody else's wallet using zk proofs so that they can't see what's happening.
So they pay for your gas and everything and you don't actually have to even know what your private key is.
Because as I say, you can submit it from any account in the entire world as long as it comes with a zk proof of the password.
And then what that'll do is it'll let people use the jackal protocol from any network that they want,
whether that be Juno, whether that be osmosis, whatever.
But they'll be able to do it with a username and password instead of knowing the private key,
but all while being fully self custodial, which I think is really, really exciting.
You can even put in like forgot password features if you add like friends and family as reliable sources so that they can like,
you know, vote to move your account to a new password. And all that stuff is is really exciting for me.
That is, I think, the best push for adoption that we kind of have the hope for in the next little while.
Yeah, that's, that's one of those things as I always say, my grandma, she can't drive, but she can log into her Facebook account,
or she can log into her New York Times account play wordle every night. So that's the big thing.
As soon as we can kind of get like a more familiar user experience going without sacrificing the core values.
I'm excited for that overall.
Someone has to say something.
If anyone wants to come up and chat as we continue to chat amongst ourselves, feel free.
If you have any questions about the protocol right now, feel free to come up.
But, Jayden, things you're excited for overall, kind of JackalBD side of things, where you want to go, where you want to see us integrated,
whether that's web two or web three, what are you excited about?
I think the biggest thing that I'm excited about just in the past week has been the progress on the outposts.
I think coming from a traditional web two background, the way that storage has been done in web three and the ethos of build it and they will come,
I get it, but it seems so counterintuitive to me.
So, so actually developing an outpost and going to different people versus having them come to us is something that really, really excites me.
It seems like a no brainer.
If I'm building on Arbitrum, how cool would it be if I had native storage directly on Arbitrum instead of having to figure out how to bridge to file coin to our weave for them to take care of my needs.
So from somebody coming from a traditional web two background, the outpost model seems like an enormous no brainer that nobody else is doing.
And that really excites me.
Yeah, it's pretty fascinating overall, right?
It's like back when kind of everyone was picking their tech stacks back when like the first storage protocols existed and like props to them like we use a lot of their technology.
I'm sure they're going to use a lot of our technology in the future.
But like the choices that you in the trade offs you had to make is you had to build this like monolithic proof of work L1, which all of them are still proof of work because it's so hard to switch now.
And there's monolithic L1 where if you want to build like an application that needs storage, you have to build on top of that L1.
So if you wanted the nice liquidity from Osmosis to build your app, but you also have storage needs, you can't really do that on chain.
You have to like either create like a centralized choke point of failure with like an Amazon server.
And then run an API and then back it up to file a coin maybe like that's your best second bet instead of like moving picking up your entire application and moving it to build on top of that monolithic L1.
The thing I'm excited about is this is why I think like IBC wins and the modular stack wins and all that good stuff is purely because the fact is we don't need you to come build directly on Jackal.
You can stay where you are and bring Jackal to you.
I think that that's just the winning strategy and I think that we had physics on our side with that one.
So now like if no matter what ecosystem you're in, we're going to start with Cosmos obviously then we're going to start to move to other IBC connected chains and then hopefully we're waiting on third parties to kind of build those bridges to the Ethereum ecosystem,
to other ecosystems in general so we can kind of bring Jackal to every chain via Smart Contract Outposts.
It's pretty fascinating you get the full Jackal experience but you don't have to sacrifice any of the community or liquidity building or the other things that other ecosystems do well because Jackal doesn't do finance, right?
Jackal does storage. We find parking space for your files and we keep them ridiculously secure and that's kind of what we do at the end of the day.
We got Ruben coming up. We spoke with Ruben probably a year ago. I don't know if you can hear me right now.
Yeah. Yeah. That's how we doing, fam.
We're doing well, man. Last time I spoke with you was probably almost a year ago now, right?
Yeah, about that, my guy. I've been deep in the seedy underbelly of trying to tokenize space time, which is a whole other conversation I don't want to derail.
I came up because was I working on that open audio thing back in the day when we last spoke?
When we last spoke, you were tokenizing your time. That was the one thing that I noticed from your profile.
And then you were working on and there was some lot of things going on where you were doing class action. That's the last thing I remember.
Oh, yeah. That was old news, that one.
Oh, by the way, my old protege copied that company and they just raised and apparently they're doing a way better job than I did, which is cool.
It's nice to, you know, it's nice to see the the idea hit exit velocity, even if it wasn't your version, right?
Hey, so last time we were talking about storage, particularly like distributed storage, you cases thereof and we're like to the extent there's a wave of demand where that might reveal itself and how to position oneself in front of it, right?
And I didn't have any good ideas at the time, but and we shut this down if this is not the appropriate form, but I've had an idea percolating for a while and it seems like there's TLDR deep fakes are getting better.
I mean, a lot better. And, you know, with generative content, whether it's generative audio or generative visuals, there's a sort of growing concern
that it'll be hard to figure out whether the thing that one is looking at is real or not.
And so it occurs to me that if the creator of a thing, whether a piece of a piece of audio or a piece of visual media were to like, create the asset, get a checksum across that asset, which is basically like you take all the attributes of that asset,
and you combine it into this really, really small number where if you change anything about the asset, that number changes, right? And so it's just a checksum.
And so you take that checksum, you hash it with the timestamp and you hash it with the private key of the creator and you store that hash somewhere on some chain, which might point to, say, for example, a file stored somewhere.
If you can do that on a protocol level, shout out to the modular stack, I can see a world where we had something a little bit like HTTPS, where I go to a website, I see some content.
Maybe it looks legit. Maybe it looks like AI. Who's to say, you know what, I'm just going to click on this thing and it's going to say, oh, it bears the signature of Obama.
Or it doesn't bear the signature of Obama, right? And if anybody tries to modify that content, it breaks the seal because it breaks the checksum, right? The reason I bring it up is if the protocol is free, people are still going to want to take a look at what the original file refers to, right?
And that could be a hell of a lot of data storage somewhere, you know what I'm saying?
That's really fascinating. It's the, yeah, I wonder where that rabbit hole goes because like on one side, like all official channels, you could get it to be signed and then you'd have the checksum associated with it.
But imagine a leak comes out and you have to get Obama to sign it that he was drunk outside the bar and that was actually him.
That's pretty cool. But Marston, I'll hand it over to you and you can kind of get into like different because I know for a fact that our CID and FID system, what's a file is uploaded through that and a single byte on the file changes that it doesn't match the CID anymore.
But I'd love to hear your thoughts specifically.
Yeah, I mean, you're exactly right. If you go and upload a file to Jackal and then, you know, from there, it generates like that Merkle hash.
That is always going to be specific to that file. So if you ever, you know, Jackal has two ways of indexing things.
One is through an immutable FID. One is through a mutable file tree.
So if you're sharing things using a file like file tree pathway and all that good stuff, you know, technically the underlying file could change.
And we designed it that way on purpose. If you want immutability, you know, the file ID always exists.
But what you can do is you can check with that file ID.
So if you are, you know, some some official of some kind in theory, you can take that file ID or the Merkle hash, whatever you want to use.
And you can sign that data instead of needing to sign the whole file. You can sign, hey, this Merkle hash is legitimate. It comes from me.
And then any file that is uploaded to Jackal protocol with that Merkle hash will kind of match that signature.
So from there, even if you know, if that file changes its path and now somebody edits that file path, you'll be able to tell that it's different because that file's Merkle won't match the sign system anymore, which is it's pretty cool from from an immutability perspective.
And we kind of thought about something like that for for desig, which was kind of our decentralized signature service.
And it still kind of exists where you have some stuff on chain, but it's it was not fleshed out very well.
So something like this would be a much better system for like digital signatures on files.
But we did kind of go down this rabbit hole of trying to make sure that everything was immutable so that you could do proof signatures and all that good stuff.
At some point, so that's that's totally something we can do.
So forget the the check something, take the Merkle hash, take the Merkle hash and thread the Merkle hash through the asset itself.
That way, no matter who copies it and forks it or whatever, it either reconciles to the Merkle hash or it doesn't.
And if it doesn't, then it's it's not the original, right? It's been it's been modified.
Oh, interesting. That's pretty cool.
Like the one way would be for us to build ourselves, but the other way would us just to be just to deliver the storage layer for it.
That's what I'm saying. Yeah.
Free the protocol and reap the rewards.
That's pretty fascinating. I'm going to do some research on that specifically just to figure out because I've heard about a few like Silicon Valley startups right now that are kind of like working on something like just like from like celebrities to like have a signature.
But it's not really integrated at the protocol level directly with the storage layer at all, which is pretty interesting.
That's what I'm thinking, right? Because like, I mean, you're not you're not going to be able to tell something is like, quote, legit or not legit.
But if you can at least track the signature, then if anybody modifies it, you can tell, oh, actually, you know what?
This isn't the original. Somebody's modified it since. Right.
Because which is why it's important, I think, to to take the some kind of unique identifier, in this case, the Merkel.
But, you know, creating some kind of checksum that you can thread throughout the asset itself.
It was something I was looking at into into audio.
You know, you can get a UUID into audio 500 times per second outside of the human hearing range and within the frequency spectrum of an MP3 500 times per second.
That's like Shazam on crack, my friend. And you know you can do a better job with video than you can with audio, right?
And so it just seems like a really useful way where, you know, let's say I'm a political figure and I'm almost certain there's going to be a thousand different interpretations of this.
This footage that I release is going to be edited. It's going to be slowed down or, you know, all sorts of modifications, right?
But if you can put like a tamper seal on it where to the extent there's a modification, it it breaks, it breaks that signature.
I think that's really powerful because if you can get it to that level, then people don't have to think, right?
It's like going to the banking website and it has that little lock.
People don't really understand what HTTPS is, but they understand that if you can see the little green lock, then it's legit, right?
And I feel like it has to be that kind of simple to get that adoption at scale.
And that kind of scale is the only thing that's going to sort of justify it.
And it has to be free to get that scale, but I couldn't think of how to monetize it.
But I think you guys could like just as a function of the storage layer.
It's pretty cool. It is a pretty cool function.
Yeah, I mean, I think the the entire infrastructure is there and ready for exactly what you're talking about.
I think the hardest part about something like that is really making it a good user experience.
The big problem with Web 3 right now, any sort of like cryptographic functions, which obviously run all of Web 3 and would very heavily run what you're talking about.
The general audience doesn't know how to like verify stuff themselves.
So making some sort of application to make it really easy would just be phenomenal.
I think that's really where the difficulty of that project lies in today's day and age.
Yeah, I think you're right, right. It's like I think of Shazam, right, where these tracks have an ID and they have a unique signature by virtue of the fact that they sound a certain way, right, even with the interference locally.
But it's enough of a signature that you can recognize the asset and they can sort of tie that back to a repository through Shazam's side.
My guess is is that if you're able to thread it through the asset using this is a very fancy word, stegonography.
I'm glad you asked. Stegonography is a hidden message and something that's publicly facing.
I was really proud of myself when I learned that a couple of years ago.
But yeah, if you use a form of stegonography to just hash whatever the unique identifier is into the asset, then they wouldn't necessarily need some fancy application.
I mean, you get a browser extension.
I can imagine CNN has a button or something.
You could put it through multiple layers because it's threaded into the asset, not the container for the asset, if that makes sense.
Yeah, I think a combo of that and like signing Merkle hashes and stuff by hosting it on Jack would make for a really, really secure and verifiable system.
I'll allow the train to rerail.
We're probably going to be closing this down pretty soon.
But you're a pretty interesting guy and I know that you're kind of like a thought leader around this stuff.
But what's exciting you right now about blockchain space as a whole?
Is it specifically that right now or is there anything else that's like just intellectually intriguing you specifically in the blockchain ecosystem?
Only one thing in the last year.
Only one thing in the last year.
And it wasn't even a blockchain thing kind of.
Manera got delisted from the big exchange.
I forget what they're called. What's the big one?
Yeah, I've been waiting for that for years.
I was expecting it to happen and I was waiting for various governments to flex and it looks like they're starting to flex and we will see how it works out.
I suspect that it will isolate that it won't kill it.
Right. Like you're talking about like of all of the fucking sorry, I'll try to drop the bombs of all of the sort of tin foil hat types.
Like the Manera kids are like the most prepper of all the preppers.
Like they're sitting out there, they're like, you know, making fire with their sticks.
Like they're they plan for this.
They literally plan for this.
Which is, you know, I guess that's why we're here, right?
But it's fascinating to me because I suspect that whilst it won't, it'll decouple it.
The ecosystem, that particular currency from the other currencies.
And I'm curious to see how it behaves because it should basically it should start moving in a different way to all the other ones that are tied together because it's not tied together.
It's sort of like out there on its own island.
I don't know if it'll be if it'll do well or if it'll do poorly in terms of adoption or like wallet count or whatever.
But like fundamentally, you know, the cool part to me about the first crypto currency I came across as Bitcoin back in 2009 was, hey, here's a way that we can not have inflation because we built not having inflation into the thing that we're using.
And we're doing it by the adoption of this is opt in.
It's not by mandate, right?
And, you know, if you want to have one that has inflation, great.
Go make your own fork it, right?
But it was it was through consensus.
And this is very much a top down, non-consensus play to sort of get it delisted.
And it'll be interesting to see if the if team consensus is able to sort of respond to that and remain resilient and hopefully antifragile.
I don't have any personal horses in that race, but that seems it seems like a it seems under the radar compared to like what how we got here in the first place.
Do you know what I'm saying?
Yeah, it's it's a sad day for when that happened.
I was pretty disappointed.
It's kind of like up there when tornado cash got taken down.
Like I understand why they would want to regulate something like that.
But I don't think that the I I just I'm just kind of disappointed from the system is working as intended.
Like I mean that this is a positive.
This is a positive thing.
Like if I tell you what, imagine the alternative.
They don't delist and they accept and they they brought an adoption.
And then like can you imagine what would happen if they did listed after I don't know a hundred million users?
I don't know if Monero is going to get there, but I still think the privacy just being a fundamental human right is just important for like the ecosystem as a whole.
The thing I think is more worrisome for Monero as a whole is the fact that like since they're kind of like their standalone chain, they don't have any interoperability.
They're old school kind of like a Bitcoin fork with some privacy.
If they were integrated at the DEX level, right, where you were they're trading on various different decentralized exchanges, whether that's osmosis or whether that's uniswap and they will kind of be able to integrate through bridging technology to those layers.
The once you kind of hit that stage, I feel like the the toothpaste is out of the two because now you have your onboarding off boarding, like just really the only way to exit Monero would be in theory would be like OTC desks and you'd need some pretty decent sized even shorter.
Right. Or like offshore exchanges, centralized offshore exchanges and hope that the wire hits.
It's it's interesting to say the least.
To be honest, that's the only thing on the radar that felt like it mattered.
That might make me curmudgeon, but or just under a rock.
But that that that that popped up on the radar for sure.
Yeah, it's just people know it like just having something that you can't necessarily control is spooky.
And just the lunar punks going at it and just kind of building crazy encryption technology and stuff like that.
I think that like secret will step up to take its place.
The cash I've heard rumors of them becoming a cosmos chain, maybe some alpha, maybe not.
This was like last year I heard about that.
But I think as soon as they get broad interoperability, I think that's when the the toothpaste is officially out of the two.
But Merson, I know you put a lot of thought into like SGX and just technology as a whole.
What are your kind of thoughts from a tech perspective?
What do you think would be something that is just heavily defendable?
I think the only thing that really can ever be fully defendable from a privacy perspective would be, well, I guess not defendable.
Defendable is a tough word.
I think compliance is really important as well.
But I think optional compliance is really important where, you know, your stuff is yours unless you choose to let people see it.
I think that's, you know, kind of the whole ethos of Jackal as well.
And I think really the only way to go about that effectively is a combo of fully homomorphic encryption and ZK proofs.
I think, you know, other other systems are really good at what they do.
You know, Jackal has very purpose built security around these things.
So, you know, your files are secure, but we're not doing general computation.
So we don't need to worry about, you know, fully homomorphic encryption or anything like that.
We just use public key and private key stuff because that's all our protocol requires of us.
But for more general computation, I think the only real way forward is fully homomorphic.
It's really the only thing right now that has no issues.
You know, it's still very new.
But in theory, it's the only thing that can be 100 percent verifiable.
And yeah, it's a homomorphic encryption.
It's been just just around the corner for about 10 years, though.
Yeah. Well, we're seeing it.
I know the Phoenix team is working on bringing fully homomorphic encryption to kind of EVM blockchain space,
which is really exciting.
I'm really looking forward to that protocol.
But yeah, it's been a long road, but I think we're finally in a place where FHE is going to come out and really shine.
Yeah, I want to get to that conference in Toronto.
Oh, yeah. Yeah, 100 percent. That's we'll be there.
Anyways, Ruby, do you have any last thoughts?
We're probably going to shut this down.
Me and Marissa are about two minutes late for a product meeting, but everyone's pretty much in here.
So we have a few more minutes for sure.
Be excellent to each other and party on dudes.
All right, dude, party on.
All right. Thanks, everyone, for coming.
This has been like a wonderful Jockletown Hall as always.