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Kill DAO: Vol. 1 feat. @CryptoGarga | OSFM
Recorded: June 12, 2025 Duration: 2:10:06Space Recording
Short Summary
In a pivotal discussion, the transition from the DAO to Apeco was announced, emphasizing a streamlined governance model aimed at enhancing efficiency and fostering growth within the ApeCoin ecosystem. Key topics included the upcoming vote on AIP596, the potential for new funding opportunities, and the evolving landscape of decentralized governance.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. What's up everyone?
Yo, check in on that bottom right hand corner.
Let's get this face out. Repost. All right. Oh Thank you. hey Thank you. What's up everyone? to other space fm it is thursday june 12th my name is nana i got my
co-host up here with me nova and we're gonna get garga on stage today welcome to the episode KillDAO Volume 1 featuring CryptoGaga.
Yo, one of the first cheetah bored ape that's minted on the Ethereum blockchain.
Yo, super excited to have everyone here today.
We're going to be talking about sunsetting the DAO and launching Apeco.
And for the first bit, Nova, Garga, and myself will kick it off.
And maybe toward the end, we'll allow some audience members to come up on stage.
And we'll continue on with the show and really just milk this time that we have with Garga today.
Want to check in with you, Nova.
How are you doing today?
Yo, yo, GMGM, doing great.
It's a beautiful day today.
You know, sunny once again on the East Coast.
Just excited for this space.
You know, also saw the Garga's AIP now has an actual AIP number, AIP596.
So excited for that.
We're getting pretty close here, guys.
Pretty close.
And you know what?
That's really exciting.
We're going to go deeper into AIP596 and talk to Garga in just a bit.
But I want to point you to the pinned tweet that's above.
We got a nice badge for today.
So make sure to claim that on OtherPage.
And, yeah, let's welcome our guest garga how you doing my friend yo yo yo can you hear me okay loud and clear amazing man
i've been having so to have you yeah no good to be here sorry Sorry if I drop. My connection's been a little funky today, but I rebooted the router. I feel like we're ready.
All right. Yeah, no worries.
Yo, we've been hosting Other Space FM, kicked off with Baron since the first trip and have done this nearly every single week.
And it's the first time having you on the space
i know i'm excited to be here you know obviously big fans of everything you guys
been building over at other space um and uh yeah thanks for having me on
well super super excited to just talk about this idea that came up about a week ago.
And it seems like it's shaping up.
Nova, you briefly checked the form.
It looks like an AIP.
A number has been established.
And this AIP is going up for vote pretty soon.
When is it going up for vote, by the way?
Do you happen to know?
I don't know.
The time, my understanding is it'll be going up for vote later today.
And it will be up for two weeks for people to vote on.
So excited.
You know, I have been meeting with a lot of folks either one-on-one or in group settings
or, you know, DMing with some folks just trying to
and doing a few of these spaces, just trying to get the word out about
what we're thinking of doing here.
And we appreciate you jumping on those spaces too. It was dope to
have you kick it off last week with Rita, Dutchie,
Guchita and the gang and then uh hop in with
coffee with captain with zwingli and steve and and now you're here so very excited to have you
certainly the landscape has changed over the years since apecoin dow launched and you know
both nova and i were we're really discussing the overall landscape of DAOs.
Nova, maybe give us a general overview of what you've observed as of late.
Yeah, definitely.
We have been seeing DAOs start to slowly, I guess the word wind down comes to mind.
Polygon recently announced their founders in deep uh they've taken full control of the polygon foundation right uh we've seen the
blast dow basically gets shut down i guess garga i guess kind of like i guess you know obviously
also i think i've read the asics and z article as well and kind of this is some good takeaways there
um do you feel like dow is our invention from an old era, Garga?
And do you foresee a lot more being shut down in the near future here?
Yeah, I mean, I think it's a really good question.
And I don't think there's like a one-size-fits-all approach here.
I do think that ApeCoin DAO for a long time, you know,
is almost like a social DAO is almost how I would categorize it, where you had all this energy born out of the Bored Ape Yacht Club.
things, you know, everything from protocols that just wanted to accept ApeCoin or help
promote it in some way to people trying to start up, you know, their own businesses or
animation or other things that just are one way or another tangentially related to Ape
or the BOIC ecosystem.
And I think the most successful DAOs that we've seen have a much more narrow remit.
You've got stuff like these DeFi
and these old school kind of DeFi 1.0 protocols
that have DAOs, but they're really,
the DAO is there to kind of decide on fee switches
or some really big macro treasury moves.
It's not the same kind of thing where anyone and everyone is proposing all manner of stuff.
You just don't see that kind of thing on the compound or Uniswap or a lot of these kind
of more protocol-focused DAOs. And I think as ApeCoin has evolved and ApeChain has launched,
you know, we have a chance here to kind of set a new tone.
You know, now there is, we have this permissionless blockchain
that anyone can write to and experience.
And we should take advantage of that.
You know, there's way more ways to get involved in the Ape ecosystem
now than just proposing
something to the DAO. Now anyone
can launch on
chain and meet with our
community there and we can
help bring energy
to them on chain.
Yeah, absolutely.
And definitely the DAO,
I will say we have seen some you know a really broad range of vips come out of the dow some very bizarre ones you know i'm i'm gonna
just mention a few here like things like you know buying bmws to like ape theme hotels to all kinds
of stuff right um was there a moment gargo a certain moment we've made it clear to you that
the dow model just was no longer working for ap for apecoin you know it's a good question i don't
you know it's interesting i mean look we launched apecoin as community like what four years ago
um three and a half and uh since then there's just been a whole evolution of the meta around
tokens. We didn't know enough to make people kind of work for their bags. The whole drawing
out a TGE for a year, getting people to farm it and do particular things, dangling a carrot of points or XP or what
have you.
And, you know, in a lot of ways, we were trying to create something as pure and straightforward
as, you know, we could and as like the regulatory environment would allow for, you know, no
ICO.
The only way to get tokens was to own a Bored Ape or a Mutant
and get an extra airdrop for having kennels.
And I think a lot, you know, for so much for us
and for so much of our community, it was like,
this was the first DAO that they were going to be part of.
And so, like, we were all figuring it out together. And obviously then we were dealing with
the SEC basically trying to kill all crypto in the US and FTX going under and Terra Luna and just
what felt like solid ground all of a sudden felt was like melting away around everybody.
ground all of a sudden felt was like melting away around everybody and you know my focus
especially the past year since coming back as ceo has been to try and like re-instill a way of
shipping um and narrowing our focus on boic on other side and to a big extent on ApeCoin and ApeChain, but we're really kind of
navigating this thing from the, a little, it's, you know, trying to drive from the backseat.
You know, we got involved on ApeChain after the DAO had already voted for it. It was already kind
of a bit underway, but frankly, if, you know, if we hadn't gotten involved a kind of a bit underway but frankly if you know if we hadn't
gotten involved a year and a bit ago um i think hn would have been like nowhere near as successful as
as we were able to make it um and the reality though is like if we look at the history i think
it's a little painful to think about.
But if we had been involved from day one in just architecting the thing, I think it would be even more powerful and in a better place today.
And so as we're looking to the future here, we have an administration that wants crypto in the U.S. to win.
administration that wants crypto in the U S to win, um, kind of the, the SEC's boot is off the
neck of our space and we have a chance now to like seize the moment and move quickly and just
start winning again. Um, and so I think over the past two weeks or so, we saw a lot of energy on the timeline around the special council elections that were going on or set to go on soon.
me was hey we should probably just why don't we just sunset this thing and find a new operating
model for apecoin that keeps us leaner more focused and doesn't have you know some of the
same politics or infighting or popularity contests that have maybe plagued it in the past and so um
yeah and wasn't planning on posting this AIP two weeks ago. I think,
you know, Dee Farmer's message spurred that, but here we are.
Now, is a long-term goal to just eliminate data style governance entirely, or there might be like
a hybrid future where ApeCoin reintroduces some kind of community-based participation?
What are you thinking here?
I don't want to dangle anything like that if we're not ready for it.
I think people are looking for a really clear message.
And I think with ApeChain now, there's a very obvious way for community members
to get involved and build on chain.
And what we need is just a more conventional operating model where it's like, here's a company.
No, it doesn't have stock or owners in that sense.
Its job as a company is to promote the ecosystem
but like it's a company it's like we're we just need to move fast yeah absolutely um now this
is i guess some concerns that you know uh i guess like builders are going to lose something that's
brought them into the apepeCoin ecosystem.
You mentioned in your AIP that builders will be supported, right?
Can you give us some details and clarity on how you envision builder support
and what type of things they'll entail?
Maybe at a high level.
For sure.
So this is something I'm working on kind of setting up with the team.
uh kind of setting up with the team i think one of the most successful things to kind of come out
of the ape coin dowers you know think ape was established for example and i think has helped
find a lot of builders that aren't you know at the triple a scale or you know but they're super active and engaged and helping them with
rewards either to them you know to their protocol directly or with rewards that help drive reach
engagement for their platform um and i think we need to set aside some amount of Ape to keep something like that going.
What I liked about that in particular, too, is that it wasn't like, you know, it wasn't the same.
You know, FankApe was a smaller, more nimble operation that doesn't need to go and ask for funding for every little thing it does at the ApeCoinDAO level.
And so especially with like Dillian and some folks from the ThinkApe team,
like having joined the foundation more recently,
I think that is something that I want to see continue,
you know, and actually just bring it in-house.
I think we'll have like a slimmer,
we won't have to pay as much overhead basically if we do that.
The other thing is we need to really focus around
helping builders on ApeChain and on other side
try and create revenue streams for themselves.
Like there's been a world, as you kind of mentioned with ApeCoinDAO, where like it was
almost seen as this slush fund for people to kind of try and go, you know, fulfill their
dreams.
And the reality is like when we do that, that's a, uh, that's a check that we're all paying in the end. Um, you know, when you add hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of eight point of cell pressure for somebody who wants to, like you said, buy a car or whatever it is, like that's coming out of everybody's pocket in the end of the day.
that's coming out of everybody's pocket in the end of the day.
And so we need to be thinking about smaller check sizes and also deals and
grants and things with people that like have experience doing what there's,
what they say they're going to set out to do.
The best way to light money on fire is, you know,
to let somebody get too far in over their head
where they're trying to do something they have, frankly, no clue how to do.
And also help them find ways to build in ways
that are going to replenish the ecosystem fund in some way
where, hey, this person is really going to be driving a lot
of transaction volume or attention onto a chain and so it makes sense to fund this or here's a
third-party builder that wants to build their own game or experience or casino or whatever it is
on top of other side like and can we create a revenue share deal back with ape co so that it's
a revenue share deal back with Ape Co so that it's continuing the flywheel that way.
Yeah, absolutely. Maybe I guess last question about the builder support before we kind of
move into the next set of questions here. What about Made by Apes? Do you see Ape Co being
involved in supporting NBA builders as well? Or is NBA kind of being maybe like sunset or
potentially kind of put on hold for a while?
You know, like, what's your vision there? Yeah, I mean,
I think the number one way that I can help Made by Apes holders over the next 12 to 18 months
is to drive more attention and value to Bored Apes as a whole. I think if Bored Apes are at 20 ETH,
as a whole. I think if Bored Apes are at 20 ETH, that's way more attention and value towards people
who are looking to create businesses and license out their Bored Apes for different things.
Then if I were to pour that same amount of energy into just trying to support made by apes. And so that's one of the,
the hard questions that's kind of come up is we need to support all apes. And this is something
that, you know, if we do this right, I think it'll have a natural buoy effect for made by apes. But
if we spend all of our energy trying to support made by apes and kind of
leave the club behind,
which is frankly a little bit of what I felt like might've been happening with,
you know,
previous management at Hugo or what have you,
then I think we're in the wrong spot.
And so I think Apeco can do a really good job of, look, if people want to
seek funding as builders for Made by Apes projects, if they're built in such a way where there's
a rev share back to ApeCo or it's driving attention or engagement onto ApeChain, that makes a ton of money for ApeCo to fund.
But if it's just driving BoardApe IP
and doesn't have any kind of share back to ApeCo,
frankly, I just don't know that ApeCo should be writing that check
because, again, that's a check that anybody with ApeCoin
ends up feeling one way or another.
Yep, makes a lot of sense.
Maybe Nana, I'll share it to you now.
I think you have a few questions about, you know,
some other things you wanted to ask Garga here, so.
Yeah, for sure.
You know, you mentioned a little bit earlier, Garga,
how, you know how Yuga, there's been a strategy that you've been having with Yuga to really focus and go all in on ApeChain, BAYC, and other side. And that seems to also be a strategic focus with ApeCo and how ApeCoin can actually support that.
I kind of want to dig into those pillars right there and get your take on what success looks
like for maybe each of the pillars, maybe starting with ApeChain. What does the win look like uh for for a chain
12 to 24 months from now for sure um i think the most important thing with when you're building
out an l2 ecosystem is to figure out what your mode is what is What is it that we're going to be doing on Ape Chain
that nobody else can do?
And inevitably, I look to a few things.
I look to the strength of the NFT community
that's born out of Board Ape Yacht Club
and that has been gaining steam and thriving on Ape Chain
since we launched six, seven months ago.
And I also look to the future and I think about other side.
Nobody's poured tens of millions into creating this kind of high,
just the amount of things you can do on other side
that you can't do in any other virtual world.
And it's all on Web3 Rails.
You can run around other side and be picking up tokens, picking up coins like you're playing fucking Sonic or something like that.
And each and every one of those can be an ERC-20 token on ApeShane.
token on ApeChain. And I think as we get more and more of OtherSide online, what we're going to be
able to do is open up a UGC layer for anybody to build a game, a virtual experience, a casino,
whatever you want to build on top of OtherSide. And I think that is the kind of moat that can
enable a flywheel for ApeChain that other people can't compete with. I get bearish when I think that is the kind of moat that can enable a flywheel for Apechain that other people can't compete with.
I get bearish when I think about an L2 ecosystem that doesn't have its own app that you're championing.
I don't think it's enough to just focus on a UI UX layer or anything else like that.
Because frankly, L2s are pretty easy to spin up these days.
We see another one every other month.
And so my focus is much more on the app layer
and enabling people to build on top of other side as a super app
than it is on a lot of the same important things that we need to do,
which is make it easy to onboard, make it easy to get your cache on there,
make it safe, secure, make it easy to discover new things on there.
All that's super important, but I think what actually makes the difference
in the end towards a multi-year, multi-cycle chain
is going to be the success of the biggest
apps on the chain.
Do you have
maybe just a take on
what you would imagine
some killer apps
would be
that would take ApeChain or
even other side to the next level or
even apps or builders
you're hoping to attract?
For sure. Yeah. So for other side, we have a few ODK experiences that we're going to be rolling
out over the summer. Bathroom Blitz, I think, is the only one that we've showed openly, but we've been playtesting a couple others internally that we're excited about.
And having an experience, you know, a game like that, that a single dev shop with, you know,
putting expenses in the, you know, the tens of thousands and not the hundreds of thousands or
millions that can have a ready-made audience that has
all the blockchain aspects figured out for you, I think is going to be super, super powerful.
I think it's going to be powerful for skill-based kind of wagering systems,
games where you can kind of bet on the outcome. I think it's going to be important for the virtual casino space and crypto
to start engaging with things in virtual worlds as well. And importantly too, I think it's also
whenever you have a UGC layer like that, there's always going to be some things that you don't
expect that can just happen. You can imagine a virtual pumped up fun experience where you're launching tokens from the metaverse and dispersing, you know, the fair launch by people actually like in a skill based way going around and collecting like the initial token launch or something like that.
So I think we're just getting started with other side and it will kind of remain to be seen
what we get I want to get triple a builders to put their to see other side as like a safe space
to come and launch their first game in web3 some of the biggest devs you know we want to talk to
many of the biggest devs in the world now that now that they're not as scared of crypto as they might have been last year or the year before,
to come do that.
And I also want to give the tools to our community to come and make games and experiences on their side.
Yeah, man.
I mean, I personally loved the poker uh aspect even throughout project dragon it just
happened to be those kind of social moments and mini games that i had probably the most fun in
uh and you know we we play poker with each other online you know know, ApeM, Baka, HisSpace.
We're playing poker, but so much of it is facilitated just through having different platforms and, you know, communicating over here. And, you know, it's not fully on ApeChain Rails.
So I could totally see where this really comes together.
see where this really comes together. And I would imagine that that's a huge value proposition for
other side is just being able to have those Ape Chain Rails so that we can have smart contracts
executing things that people can be doing to make the experience so much easier. I'm super excited about that, man. But, all right. So, you know, one of the other pillars you mentioned with Apeco is BAYC as well.
Do you mind sharing a little bit about what success looks like there, you know, as it
relates to Apeco?
Yeah, I think, you know, we've had this huge firewall between BYC from the Yuga side and ApeCoin, where BYC might integrate ApeCoin into things, but there wasn't as close of a relationship as, I don't know, where you see Pudgy and Pengu, and Pengu and Pudgy are literally the same thing in the eyes of the devs, and it's the same people in control of things.
And I think where ApeCo can help promote,
where that relationship can become
symbiotic and help propel both
Bored Ape and ApeCoin to new heights is going to be
finding more special ways for people to participate and engage in the broader club
and the ethos of BOIC.
By owning and board Ape, sure, but also owning and engaging with ApeCoin.
I can't speak to... I'm working on a bunch of stuff in this world,
so I don't really want to spoil what's
cooking too much but i just think it's important where in this new model you're going to see
apecoin you know engaging with boic in a in a in a better way and i think that boic can do more to
help promote and um support apecoin and i think
that will be good for the price of both projects frankly yeah definitely uh you mentioned i think
you know casino apps a few times obviously now you look at the chains like abstract and some
of the others like i think you know it's think it's basically mainly casino apps do extremely well for obvious reasons.
Are we going to see some casino games
on the other side in the near future here?
We're obviously already seeing poker
and some early versions of that, right?
Do you feel like we'll see some other side casino apps
in the near future here?
Yeah, I mean, it's something
I'm super bullish on in general.
I think it'll be important to nail that for other side to really break through is, look, DGENs want to fucking DGEN out. And for other side to succeed, we need to cater to a bunch of different profiles and kinds of people.
I think one of the promises of Web3 and crypto gaming that doesn't so much exist in the Web2 sphere is being able to, if you're really good about a game. It's like actually being able to
drive and generate value from things you're doing on chain in game. And so I think there's a few
different ways that can look. I think that can look like, you know, some of the skill-based
wagering kind of components that you might associate with like the reboot protocol, or I
think it can also potentially look at, you know, like poker or some other
things that, you know, we're cooking on that space.
I think for Casino to really work, I want to see third party devs building on that,
you know, building on top of our platform.
We don't have a tremendous amount of experience in that world at Yuga, and I
think that's where this being a platform actually becomes really powerful and allowing other
people to come build on top of it.
Does that make you happy, Nova? Because I know you love those casino games too, man.
Yeah, I mean, I'll say,
I think just poker alone would be probably enough for me.
I don't really want to play slots.
I just, you know, just give me a text with Hold'em
on the other side,
and, you know, I'll probably spend quite a bit of time there.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, it's kind of funny.
Like, I used to play,
if you guys remember back in the day,
like, party poker in the U.S. was, like, legal.
I think George Bush made it illegal.
And they shut all the poker games down.
And that was like 20 years ago.
So I'm hoping maybe we'll bring those back.
And I think others would be a perfect place for that.
Cool.
Well, I think maybe if we have time, Gargoyle,
we can maybe let a few people on stage to ask more questions.
Unless you have to run here.
Yeah, I got another 15 minutes.
I got a hard out at like 2.50.
Sweet, OK.
Yeah, that sounds good.
Yeah.
If you want to come up, anybody, just request,
and we'll let you up.
Yeah, I'm excited.
Garga, with so many things happening,
even amongst Yuga, amongst this concept of ApeCo, you know, one of the things that I think really attracted me to this ecosystem, besides like the community aspect of it, was like a lot of people were invested in the same thing. And ApeCoin and the DAO was one of those enablers for so many builders.
And I felt like we've been certainly at the other page beneficiaries of the DAO to be
able to have the ability to work on a really great concept and idea,
feedback into the ecosystem.
But there's also so many AIPs that have passed that have zero updates.
And that's one of the things that I'm personally frustrated with.
You kind of use the words of like, yeah, it's coming out of everyone's pocket in that sense i'm curious on like your take on like accountability and how this
this particular position with apeco could potentially help change that yeah and i think
there's like there's two two sides of that coin there's the obvious one of like okay what can be
done to go back?
And can you claw back that money?
Can you hold some people's feet to the fire?
Can you make them accountable?
Some people, they tried, they couldn't pull off whatever they did, you know, and fair enough in the end.
But other people really didn't even, you know, it seems like it just was an outright scam.
And if someone's like, you know, purporting fraud on the ApeCoin DAO, then we should be looking at, I'm not a lawyer, but we should be looking at ways to claw that back.
I haven't seen those agreements, but that's one of the things that I think it would make sense for ApeCo to try and make some examples there.
I think that would instill a lot of confidence back in it. And then from the kind of forward-looking side, I think that's one of the benefits of
having a leaner operating model is, number one, only funding things that folks feel confident in.
I think the kinds of things that will get approved by APECO as opposed to, you know, a, a DAO that has, you know, its share of
infighting or popularity consciousness, that kind of thing.
It's going to be a little bit different and having really strict milestones, you know,
nobody, nobody's just getting, you know, hundreds of thousand up front without, without
claws into them.
Um, so a hundred percent, you know know i think that's on everybody's mind
um and you know from where i come out with this is i think we need to start apeco fresh with a
you know a lot of ways it's the same as like what private equity does when they take over something
um what you saw with like doge or with, with Elon's original takeover of Twitter
or X where it's like, okay, you start off by like just hitting pause on all the credit cards and
things, all the payments. And you just start to see who's knocking at the door being like, wait a
second, pay me. Because I think I want to know exactly how much the foundation or Apeco is or has been spending, where that money is going, how much is going out every single week.
I think if we can lower spend and just be more diligent just on the defense, I think we can already see a pretty significant rise in everybody's value and then that also then opens up the
opportunity for you to go on offense and actually like you know fund awesome shit create value for
everybody do dope partnerships and all that kind of thing yeah and you know i and i can't confirm
that in a doubt contract contracts for further a you know, there is some clawback language for milestones non-stripped.
I'm not sure how far, how long ago they actually added that. It might've been a relatively recent addition.
But I've seen so far, I think like zero clawbacks, right? So we haven't seen any, anybody give money back just yet.
So maybe, you know, that's one of the things maybe Apeco can do. Maybe kind of review some of those, you know, delinquent AIPs and have them, you know, give some of the money back to Apeco.
Department of Ape Efficiency.
That's right.
Yo, let's welcome Adventurous Ape.
What's up, Adventurous?
Welcome to the stage.
Happy to be here.
Yeah, I had a question. I've been with the dow now pretty much
um since the beginning like pretty active um and like i've always kind of felt the structure was
flawed um and you know it kind of was hard you know didn't really set us up for long-term success
so i do welcome some changes like definitely definitely in a new direction for this,
because it is, has been frustrating. But I, you know, there, there's been a lot of good along
the way. And I hope like the baby doesn't get thrown out with the bath water with this. Like,
I think it did help like the community to become a little more involved and like, feel like there
was a place they could go,
you know, for funding.
And I think that's been said a bunch of times.
And I know on some of the other spaces that's been brought up that the comms could be better.
And I want to echo that, that I hope that the new chapter, if this AIP passes, there's
better comms that are more clear and consistent.
But my question is like one thing I've often ran into was that the perception of, like, ApeCoin and ApeChain and the DAO funding was just for, like, bored apes.
So with this new structure going more towards Yuga and centralization, like, how will ApeCo and, you know, you ensure that, like, non-Yugo holders still feel included in the ApeCoin
ecosystem because, you know, we need to grow outside of our bubble if we want to get bigger.
A thousand percent agree. You know, in some ways, it's a little bit of a shame that ApeChain is
called ApeChain because it needs to be a place for everybody.
And that's something that's really top of mind for me.
I do think we've seen a bunch of different NFT communities sprout up on Ape Chain that aren't Bored Apes.
And we've seen people engage on Ape Chain
and then buy a mutant or a Bored Ape or something like that.
But that's super top of mind for me. I think other side success is a big way that we can
create space for other communities on, for, you know, running on ApeChain,
using ApeCoin and all that kind of thing. It was was always other side was always imagined as our way to kind of become a a community of communities and you know we've seen that with me bits and and um
and some other collections that will have their own islands um that aren't kind of
yuga owned or yuga owned anymore having their own space um their own games and experiences on top of other side
and all that's running on ape chain and all that's you know and the currency of other side is on
ape coin so i don't have every answer for you there i can just share you know um that it's
super top of mind for us and something that we're thinking about yeah are you thinking about an ape
chain and rebrand potentially it sounds like that's maybe on your mind based on what you said.
I'm thinking about a lot of stuff.
There's nothing set in stone.
Yeah, I guess I'll just kind of leave it there.
Yeah, I guess my two senses,
I think that Apechan is definitely not inclusive enough.
I think Pudget Penguins have Mabstract,
Zouki has Anime Chain.
I do think broader appeal is something.
I'm sure you're probably thinking about Garga,
and I do encourage, I think,
for us to think about that as well.
Yeah. No, Nova, this is definitely not uh you know a foreign topic
you and i have personally discussed as well so yeah interesting to uh hear that but let's say uh
if it's okay with you nova unless you had a follow-up let's say what's up to dutchy
nova you good uh yeah absolutely yeah i'm good all'm good. All right, cool. Dutchie, what up?
How you doing, man? GM, good to speak with you again, Garga. So my question is really about
the big picture. I think when you understand someone's vision or a group of people's vision
and their North Star, you can kind of understand what the rationale
across multiple moves may be.
And we can kind of unite under, you know, a direction.
And so I've noticed on Ape Chain, a lot of verbiage leading towards the terms of culture,
being a culture chain.
And we know that, you know, Board board ape has been kind of like a big
leader in ip as well and so i'm just wondering your thoughts on you know why you chose that
or maybe not you specifically but why do you feel that that's a good direction and like what does
success look like as far as winning in the culture category? And we know that other side is supposed to be the living room of the internet.
So if we combine those visions across the club, other side, and ape chain, what does
the future of culture look like in your eyes?
And what's the grand vision if success is um is guaranteed theoretically sweet yeah um i think yuga's special
sauce is in creative and storytelling and community like you know gordon and i aren't
devs by background or anything like that we're writers and i think a lot of the early magic of BOIC and a lot of what attracted people to other side was around, you know, we always have a really strict kind of point of view with what we're doing. You've got the sort of disembodied or legless creatures of Horizon Worlds or whatever of meta stuff.
And it's kind of trying to be for everybody.
Whereas our feeling was always actually if you have a really strict point of view and you make it something that you yourself would delight in that actually that's the best way
to like lock people into your world you know even with board ape yacht club it was you know we tried
to put a lot of stuff into it that we loved um you know echoes of of punk rock and and hip-hop and um you know a lot of like the surrealism and strangeness
of of i don't know for me it was like murakami but more like a lot of short story writers that
wiley and i love um and i think even folks who didn't grow up obsessed with punk or hardcore
whatever it was you know some of that stuff gets transmuted in the process and it becomes more accessible to everybody. And, uh, you know,
some of the, the, my North star for a lot of things with BYC is how do we, how do we look at
something like a strange, you know, stranger things where everybody loves stranger things.
It's hilarious. It's fun, but it's taking things from 80s from
dnd from kind of this whole other world um and transmuting them uh into this new thing that that
anybody can enjoy and i think that's the space i like to play in that like you know brings me joy
and we have fun with is when we take you know some old school or
subcultural or cult favorite things from the past um old games mmos all that kind of stuff
and we we repackage it we make it more accessible we make it ownable via crypto and blockchain and
that kind of thing um i think that's what gets people like, I don't know, that's what gets me excited. And so I think that's what gets what's everybody excited. And just makes it like more fun. You
know, at the end of the day, we've, you know, we've always charted our own path in crypto.
When it comes to like, IP, for us, it's not necessarily about getting board apes everywhere. It's about trying to go deep and tell weird stories, have weird engagement, get people together in real life at ApeFest and eventually the clubhouse and that sort of thing, rather than just having more shallow or superficial relationships with the brand
yeah i'm ready for my uh slick rfid card to get into that clubhouse
that non 100 story clubhouse yeah no not yeah the non-delusional tower yeah
yeah garga i know you have a hard out out and there's definitely more people on stage that probably have questions.
So I apologize that we're going to definitely respect the time.
Gabe, if you have a question to quickly fire off, please go ahead.
Yeah. Can you guys hear me?
Yeah. Go for it.
Yeah. So I have a few questions for Garga. How are you doing, Garga?
Yep.
Hopefully it's a quick answer.
Oh, okay, okay.
So my question is, are you guys planning to work again with the Heavy Metal IP?
Are you guys planning to integrate Heavy Metal back into other side?
Because last time that I spoke with Alexlex he told me that he messaged you
guys like seven months ago and you guys basically ignored him so what is the situation here like
you guys want to keep working with heavy metal or not anymore uh i don't i don't think we ignored
him i i'll certainly i'll call up alex later today and see what what that was about um i think
I'll call up Alex later today and see what that was about.
I think where we last spoke was some of the 3D models that they made
needed a little bit more work to be accessible.
We're trying to make other side as accessible to everybody.
We've got Meebits and Moonbirds and all this kind of stuff on there.
There's no reason why we shouldn't be able to get heavies into other
side.
I just don't think it's been a bit,
you know,
we just need the right 3d models and we can't really do that for them.
So yeah,
I can circle back up with Alex though,
for sure.
thank you,
Gabe,
for that question.
Proof of alpha giant.
Sorry,
we can't get to your question.
We want to respect Garga's heart out as it it's it's at the 50 mark Garga thank you so much for joining us being you know
taking the time out to answer some questions from the community and hop on other space fm
just any any kind of you know any kind of outro things you want to leave the leave the space with
um just thank you all for the support in this you know whenever we try to make a big Any kind of outro, things you want to leave the space with?
Just thank you all for the support in this.
Whenever we try to make a big change, it can be a little scary or rocky.
So it's been great to see the amount of support on the groundswell around this idea.
I think it can be a really, really strong move for everybody. And it'll be going up for vote, I think, later today and up there for two weeks.
So vote with your wallet and hit me up in DMs if you have anything specific.
I'll also try and be on a few more spaces next week.
So I'm not going anywhere.
Let's go, baby.
You know what?
It's going up for vote y'all make sure to to vote on AIP 596
everyone thank Garga for coming in today really appreciate you and uh you know everyone else feel
free to hang out we're gonna keep this going Nova anything I just want to say I appreciate
you Garga for coming on this space and hope to have you back here you know in the near future
here and good luck with AIP, I'm sure.
Hopefully it won't be a battle to get a pass, but most likely it's going to pass, I think.
Very good chance.
Good luck.
Cheers.
All right.
Thanks, guys.
See you.
Cheers.
Bye-bye.
Yes.
Let's get a nice little reset of the room.
Really appreciate everyone for showing up to kill
dow volume one on other space fm with garga if you want to come up on stage
have a take have some questions for everyone feel free to request
everyone go ahead and repost this space it is recorded so it'll be available for playback and
we got a badge for today you can claim it on other space there's a claim code with a link
right at the top let's let's just let's hang out, you know, let's continue this episode
I'm gonna throw it back to Nova just to get his quick take and then we'll say what's up to
Alpha we'll say what's up to giant. We got Coco joining the stage
Appreciate y'all for pulling up Nova
Any kind of you know first impressions of of what was just shared anything stand out to you?
Um You know, first impressions of what was just shared. Anything stand out to you?
Yeah, I mean, definitely excited.
I mean, a lot of big changes have been coming for the ape ecosystem.
Obviously, the other side launched around the corner now.
We're going to have casino games, which I'm waiting for myself. Going to be playing poker and losing all my hard-earned money to other apes, probably.
Excited, I mean, just in general, I guess builder support is coming from ApeCo.
It's going to be, you know, obviously some, you know, I think builder investments and
grants coming.
So I think that aspect of the DAO is still going to continue, which is great to see.
I think focus on the three pillars, ApeChain and base, the other side makes a lot of sense.
We're getting a clubhouse.
It won't be a hundred story clubhouse unfortunately
but you know if it's like two or three stories probably still will suffice my needs you know
for an angle yeah um yeah overall i mean dow i think just was you know that was fun for a while
there's a period where i had the DAO process myself. And,
you know, obviously the other page has gone through the AIP process, you know, a couple of times.
I'm definitely thankful for everything DAO has done for us. But I think over time, it's kind of
became this like, you know, I don't know, like old, slow moving organism that just couldn't evolve,
right? And over time, it just kind of became clear that it was time for a
change. Um,
so I'm definitely glad that we are taking steps now to wind down the Dow.
Uh, I know there's a lot of opinions about like how it should be done,
how it shouldn't be done. And like, I personally,
I'm on the side of just let's just do a fast and quick, you know,
just now overthink it. Let's just, you know, pull the cord and move on.
Let's just not, you know,
people want the change. People want the change. not overthink it let's just you know pull the cord and move on let's just not you know people
want the change people want the change let's not spend a year on governance and back and forth
rhetoric and you know let's just move on guys like if it's time uh it's going to be up for a vote now
in about nine hours sorry six hours from now 9 p.m eastern going up for vote aip 596 uh and yeah
go ahead for two weeks you have two weeks weeks to do it. Yep. That's right
Let's throw over to Coco. Okay. So you come up. I haven't seen you in a little bit. Hi. How you been man?
I've been you know, I've been hitting the late night spaces, bro
I've been around no no tell you that like I've been I don't know my sleeping schedule is just complete DGN hours
So I'm usually up pretty late
But yeah, no, I haven't been doing the more
of the daily spaces but i've been i've been trenching around in the ape coin spaces at night
a lot how's everything going bro like you know one thing i want to say is like bro you got the
you got the founders showing up you got them putting out like you know objectives and things
that they want to do and that's the sign of somebody that wants change for the better right so um yeah you know it's like
that's just like man i'm like i've said this a couple times on other spaces recently like
i'm a fan of big moves like you know you gotta you gotta shake shit up like that it's it's
you know and and that means that like i think that you know if you they're planning to make
some moves right like because i i think we can all agree that it wasn't really going kind of how we wanted it in the current state, right?
So you got to try stuff.
You got to switch things up, and you got to go for it.
So I'm all for it.
I'm voting for it.
It kind of puts a, I mean, and that's huge considering your delegation, too.
It kind of puts a, and I mean, and that's huge considering your delegation too.
But yeah, it kind of puts a fire under everyone's ass when the ApeCoin price is where it's at as well.
You know, it's like when ApeCoin was like $4 or whatever, it's like, damn, you know, we got a huge treasury.
Like we can totally do some really great things with it especially amongst the
builders in the ecosystem but now that like when the price of ape coin goes down it gets pretty
slim you know it kind of makes you nervous of like yo the treasury is going to run out yeah
like i'll be honest like we gotta drive drive the price up for ape coin in order to enable
these newer opportunities exactly
exactly and like you don't have to sugarcoat around it you don't have to like sit there and
you know beat around the bush that's the that's the goal we won't pump we want we want to pump
ape coin right like i'm pretty sure everyone in the crowd what you guys you guys everyone would
like that right so it takes moves man and uh you know that's that's the reason why i'm i'm super
excited about it.
And I have been a bit quiet the past couple months,
but I have not been just doing nothing.
I've got new stuff coming out for Ape Chain.
You guys will see that pretty soon.
I actually saw you post.
Yeah, I've been doing a huge build.
It's been a lot of dev work and stuff.
But I'm weird like that.
I turn into a little silent ninja when I'm cooking.
Yeah, for Ape Express or something else something else yep i got two things coming out
so like i i like to be kind of secretive about it um so like yeah in the next couple weeks you'll
see one of them and then i have a huge upgrade for ape express um coming in the next i don't know
four to six weeks i'm gonna i'm doing something that uh it hasn't i don't it, four to six weeks, I'm going to, I'm doing something that, uh, I, it hasn't,
I don't, it hasn't been done before. So we're going to, we're going to fuck around and find out.
I think the first couple of months, I think the first couple of months of ApeChain are probably
the most fun I've had on ApeChain. Like just when the trenches were ApeChain, those were good,
those were good times, man. Yeah. So I've, I've just, I've been kind of analyzing like what ApeChain
is because every single ecosystem, like you can't look at them all the same.
I've realized I can't look at ApeChain the same way I look at Solana.
I can't look at ApeChain the same way I look at BNB.
So what I think is, okay, what's going to fit the users that are already here?
And then what's also going to onboard people from other chains because they want to try something cool out that's not on their chain
right so that's kind of like my mindset with the stuff that we've been building but yeah i'll do
like a space like later on and we can talk about it when i like announce it and stuff but i'm just
excited for apes man and like i'm you know i'm holding my ape coin tight and i i still i think
that it has a huge future and like if you look at our ecosystem man
like it's it's we got a lot of cool man like there's a lot of cool stuff going on and
really cool builders and good good people so i'm just like excited for the future bro like let's
let's go yeah definitely and we said earlier too koko about like i guess garga being around more
i mean obviously you see garga now dms you see him on you know in group chats you see him on discord and twitter spaces right like he's everywhere
it's actually i think one of the things i really have to miss when like i think
during the allegra era there's a period where like there's nobody around anywhere you know there's
just like zero dark 30 30 type stuff it was just like you couldn't reach an executive you know
to comment on anything so i'm definitely kind of definitely glad to see garbage as being so much more active and just kind
of everywhere he's the man bro he's got good i always love listening to him talk because like
he always has good insight he's really honest with his thoughts and that's what you want right like
you don't want somebody that's leading the ship that you feel like they're bullshitting you or
like like when i listen to him talk i'm like'm like, nah man, they've got the best intentions.
And you know, like what we see from the outside
is like a fraction of all the shit they're talking about
and trying to cook up, you know?
Like, that's pretty much probably all they do all day long
is strategize, like, okay,
what's gonna be the next most powerful move?
And that's why I don't think I've ever,
like in the past year,
I don't think I've been this excited
about the future of Ape Chain, you know?
So I think it's just onward and upward.
I'll say, too, for everyone that joined the stage, we can certainly go around, and I will.
But if you want to contribute to the conversation, just jump right in.
Hey, hey, Lesnano.
What's up, man?
Yo, it's been way too long.
What's up, Mark?
Yo, I just want to say, first off off super stoked on the news are you kidding this is incredible the dow was never a good idea like
that is how ideas go to die decision by committee that has never worked like that's the fastest way
to kill a good idea is to like share it and have everyone put like drop their input on it and then
just slowly kill it by a thousand stats or a thousand cuts like bro it's have everyone put like drop their input on it and then just slowly kill it
by a thousand stats or a thousand cuts like bro it's it's never once worked i'm so happy we're
out of it bro apes ape chain the whole ecosystem nfts the whole thing's been down bad for way too
long like i believe in the community day one like it's there's so much potential here but this was
not it so like super stoked uh Killed out, by the way,
is an amazing name. Keep these spaces going. And honestly, I just, I fuck with the vibe, bro.
I don't care what everyone thinks. I don't want everyone to vote on my fucking ideas,
my opinion, my anything, bro. Like if I believe in something, I'm going to go do it. And I think
that's just more of a mentality that we need to adopt because, bro, like everyone's going to come and give their input and tell me why it's
not going to work or tell you this and tell you that. At the end of the day, we just need to
believe in ourselves and then we just need to support each other. So the fact that the Tao is
dying, thank God, bro, way too long. Like, I don't know, maybe I'm just being negative, but
it's just not conducive to creativity. And here's the thing. We all talk about, oh, we're all builders. We're all doing this stuff.
But we're out here asking for other people's approval to fundraise, which I think fundamentally it's a good idea.
I believed in DAOs too. Early on, I thought it was a good idea. It's kind of cool.
Hey, we're all going to work.
I love DAOs.
Yeah, it's a cool idea. But at end of the day that shit is this is slow it's like trying to move a big ship and trying to like get everyone to agree that we
need to change direction like that just doesn't work man like i'm so happy it's over and uh
thanks for hosting this space man it's been a long time coming
yeah i'm not personally myself have i think btsd from aips i've done you know and i'll never forget
the process of of those yeah you know having sacrificed a couple a couple a couple goats
along the way and you know and fucking it just like yeah it's definitely aip process it was rough
no and think about all the people that didn't even want to get into it because of how tough it was
like there's yeah i apparently the doubt or the new ape co
foundation is going to take over that and choose what to fund which has its own set of you know
questions and whatnot but at the end of the day i'd rather have one team take responsibility for
decisions rather than everyone share the responsibility and we all know full well
that that's not like gonna lead anywhere. So good riddance.
Go ahead, Coco.
That go Dutchie had his hand up first.
Oh, sorry. Dutchie, go ahead.
Yeah, I just had a thought, kind of not leading to any specifics,
but just about being able to move fast in tech.
The reason, if you look back at early Borde, you know, Borde, you know, the club,
it's, you know, fuck it, Mutant Saturday, right? The ability to make decisions very quickly and
react to market conditions. I mean, like, you know, sometimes we think we're headed under this meta,
and then all of a sudden, you know, the market crashes or something else takes off. And when you,
you know, I've worked in Silicon Valley for quite some time, and, you know, the market crashes or something else takes off. And when you, you know, I've worked
in Silicon Valley for quite some time and, you know, organizations, when they get too large
and they have a lot of process and they need a lot of approvals, they can only move at a certain
speed. And then that's why a lot of like smaller startups can just like execute so much faster
because they don't have to go through a lot of process or
opinions or vetting and those kinds of things. And what you get out of that is, you know,
sometimes people take shots and they don't 100% always hit. But I think like, for example,
I recently did the Mintatours event. And I think about if I had gone around the horn and asked for
approval for that and asked for
buy-in i don't know how many people would have understood what it is that i was trying to do
um and so i just went with it and i ran it and we did it and it and then everyone got it after the
fact and the element of surprise you know just that's that's also a big thing. Yeah. So I think that, you know, no matter what that is, whether that be like, you know,
we saw Yuga kind of get pretty big in organization during the era that it was mentioned earlier,
you know, where they just hired the best of the best and whether they were Web3 native or not,
but they just grew to a size that was just massive. And then the executing, you know,
there was a lot more planning and, you know, there was a lot more
planning and, you know, all that kind of stuff, which can be good. But at the same time, in this
space, you can see two, five people, you know, two person teams, five person teams, just dropping
stuff back to back to back and, and moving fast. And that can be very successful. And, you know,
you can miss a shot. and we got to give those people
grace because they're just human beings but there is something to be said about corporations that
become you know multi-billion dollar companies that just there's thousands of people involved
and they just cannot make a move fast enough to react to markets and there's nothing faster
in crypto than crypto, right? This space
moves at the speed of light and what feels like a quarter is actually like a week. So I think
there's something to be said about slimming down. And I noticed in their comms, they talk a lot
about speed, being able to act quicker, make decisions faster, those kinds of things. So
it's interesting to see the rationale. And I was glad to hear from him, the North star for them in terms of pursuing culture. Um, uh,
and, and, and you can under better understand all the micro moves once you understand, uh,
the overall, uh, big vision. Yeah. And in this day and age, all you need is an idea.
And I catch you PT bro, or Google VO three or gemini or whatever bro that's all you need you
see the craziest stuff that people are doing just by themselves so totally it's the rise of the
solopreneur i agree 100 what's up i'm like super excited about this opportunity of having
like you know chat gpt loaded it up like figure out like some logistics with things how to like
you know stay compliant and certain other things and create businesses and create opportunities. I think that we all
look to the DAO as an ability to fund those opportunities. And so this committee thing was
just a way of like, hey, qualifying an idea. And also at the same time, raising awareness of an
idea. Is it good enough? Oh, well, that's kind of good. A game show? I don't know. Maybe it could
be fun, right? And so we kind of like debated it and we took it through as a community.
When it comes to ApeCo, I don't know if I've seen any protections for builders. And I think that
that's my only area of concern because I agree. Nimbleness is key, especially in tech. And I mean,
coming from Rug Radio, we experienced that. We couldn't have enough people in order to vote for the
changes that we need. We needed quorum. We needed, you know, a certain number of people to be there
just to make the changes that we knew we needed to make. And we couldn't make them.
And we had to extend out for another month and campaign that, hey, a vote's coming.
So I think that this is going to come fast and sharp. And I am excited about, you know,
how it's going to give us that nimbleness. But I am concerned about the builder protections.
Like, what is it that now, what does this process become now in terms of, like, how we as builders, you know, go through a process and, you know, do the same things that the DAO facilitated, which is A, funding, but also B, developing of community support.
Right.
But ultimately, I think the market decides, though.
So, like, we can all debate whether we think it'll work or not,
but ultimately, the only way to know for sure
is to do it and try it and see how the market responds.
So no amount of deliberation or talking about it
is really going to be a good proxy
for just trying it and doing it.
So there are no protections in real life.
You just do it and it works or it doesn't, and then you kind of go from there. No, I love iteration. I love starting and I love just
going. But I think that certain ideas require certain startup funds. For me, I need security.
I need to make sure that I get proper audits. I need to make sure that I'm working with the right
vendors. And that costs money. They want it up front. Those are businesses. And so, you know, do I have to scale down to try and, you know, prove an MVP?
Like, you know, you try the best you can, but we're also working with crypto and working
with other people's money.
And so to be, you know, fair with that, I think there is some need for startup costs
for some projects.
Yo, Coco, I saw your hand up.
Yeah.
And then we'll go to proof of alpha And then Derek
Shit, man, there's builder protections, bro
I wish someone would have told me that with all the shit I'm trying to do
Fuck
No, I'm just
Bro, you can't get much message now
No, um
I knew you were going to pick up on that, Coco
I just knew it
Um, no, okay, so like
No, I totally get what he means, right?
Like you want to, there needs to be, like, a pool.
Most chains do have, obviously, that, you know, that basically that fund that goes towards projects and stuff.
And, you know, I've been on many chains and built stuff on different chains.
And I guess one of the things that I would say is that makes, the thing that I'm more excited about out of all of this is, and it's kind of weird because it comes back to the optics,
right? So when I think about whether we like it or not, like what does a DAO cause? Let's think
about that for a second. And I said this like a couple of days ago or yesterday is like,
you guys got to remember, like we know our ecosystem, we know each other, we know the
apes, like everyone kind of is friendly. We very tapped in right but when people come to our ecosystem and see a bunch of guys arguing like they don't
have all the logistics or they don't have all the the context of what's going on so i just think like
less of that will actually improve sentiment and help onboard more people into the ecosystem right
like because whether you like it or not like if you're super passionate about some aip that you put up and then it gets shut down or there's somebody
that's completely against you and then you know two people in the same ecosystem start arguing on
the timeline like to an average onlooker or like a lurker somebody that doesn't say anything that
that causes you to not have a good sentiment towards the overall ecosystem right so like i'm
ready to get rid of all that shit, right?
Like, I'm ready to be, like, we're the fucking apes.
Shut the fuck up and send it.
Let's go.
You know what I mean?
Like, that's my mindset, right?
Like, I don't know.
That's just kind of, like, the way that I look at it is, like, yes, of course.
I'm actually the type of person for this move that it actually, I lose a little bit of power
because I have a big delegation
right so like it's not like beneficial uh for certain things but I know it's beneficial for my
coins long term right like because all of this stuff if we want to bring new investors into
apecoin like they're gonna look at these kind of things and people look for signals right they
they look for like well okay what's a what's a bullish signal what okay that's a bull flag oh
shit you guys basically taking over and like it's going to be streamlined and center-focused?
That's bullish.
Oh, shit, look at the price.
Damn, that's undervalued.
Just the simple math that people do in their head, this will lead to better sentiment, in my opinion,
as we go into a really nice part of the market, I believe.
So, yeah, I guess that's just my thoughts.
Optics, I think, are going to be really good.
Alpha, jump in. Yeah, 100 percent. I just want to say that I'm not here for any content at all.
I'm just here to farm. I'm just kidding. So I'm pretty sure we all agree that, you know, this is going to pass.
Right. Most of us are adults in the room and we know this is going to pass.
This is what we've been asking for. Now we got it. So be careful what you ask for. You just might get it right. And so now we think where
are we going to go next? What's, you know, sustainability paneling out five years, 10
years. I heard somebody ask about two years, three years. Let's go two, five and 10. So,
all right. So now you're talking about a perpetual other side, something that's going to be like one big pool on that a a chain or a coin
economy um just servicing it right it's expensive to run your shit perpetually so i was i would
suggest and you know i'm not the the consummate professional here but i'm i would suggest as we
welcome the other communities into the other side and they get their commerce going on the other side, that we incentivize them to to transact, of course, in a point.
And then they have some type of and I've said this before.
So if you heard this before, just close your ears, motherfuckers.
before just close your ears motherfuckers but they have some type of uh a monthly or some type
of residual uh maintenance fee that would help to tow the weight and tow the bill for the perpetual
other side so we don't look up and say oh shit we didn't factor this in and we this is eating a
chunk of what you know our our dow has brought or the ape code has brought back in and we're spending
it all on perpetual other side so i think something like that you know those type of incentive you know incentives
would actually help out and put back into the economy and make it self-subsisting
and help with sustainability i'll land my plane
can i fire back on that one yes sir sir sir. Yes, sir. Okay. Yeah.
So I think that that's already built in in a way that doesn't need to be said in a way that, you know, the entire it's confirmed that on about launching tokens, ERCs in game, you know,
competitions, you know, the wearables market, if they're trying to go after something like
the way, you know, some of the biggest games on earth have made billions of dollars, right?
And so if that's all powered in the in-game
currency is ape coin or whatever it will be called in the future then that in itself wouldn't shock
me if all those mechanisms pulled a transaction fee across the entire platform right and um and
so i think that that in itself inherently is a tax right right? And so whether they decide to hold it in mass
or whatever they, you know,
even if burning mechanism,
who knows we've seen clutch markets create,
you know, the only deflationary mechanism on ApeCain
because they burn ApeCoin.
So, you know, there's certainly ways
that they can apply that tax.
And so if everyone, you know, you have your community and you're trying to build on your land, now you want to boost visibility. And so I don't know, I can't confirm this for sure, but I would imagine with 100,000 lands, you need some sort of mechanism to boost visibility of like where this party is at right now, right? This active land activation, right? So, you know, paying an ApeCoin to do so,
or whether that be land resources, you know, popping up a store to be able to sell wearables.
You know, we've even seen like renting land, there's all types of I would say,
sub economies that will fall under that. And if, if all those take a tax, as you mentioned,
And if all those take a tax, as you mentioned, in ApeCoin, then they don't need a monthly fee, is what I'm saying.
If everything you do requires ApeCoin, then that means that every single community in that metaverse will be buying on your land, and we see this with websites, social platforms like whether that be Spotify or YouTube, they pay people who make great content and attract users to spend a long time.
Generally, the approach there is to reward the best lands that have the most foot traffic and keep people there
the longest. So then there'll be some flow back to those people who are attracting people to spend
time in other side. And so that's why they would want to invest in boosting visibility of their
land and participating in all those mechanisms. So yes, there's a tax and then there's an ability to earn. And that's why you would invest more money into being able to make more money. So yeah,
hopefully that helps. But yeah, I don't think it helps. You need to charge rent like landlords.
It helps. It helps. But at the same time, you have a difference in commerce and individual
commerce and commercial commerce. When you start talking about individuals playing poker, that's one thing thing when you're talking about a company that comes in and they set up a revenue
base or a revenue model on your land or on in the other side then you have a bigger pool you have a
bigger uh weight division right there so just regular djs dj and i get it but then when you
have somebody that's actually let's say nike decided to come back and say hey you know what we felt we messed up with the artifact thing we want to come back and they
come back and they shut up a land or whatever that looks like then you're talking about a different
demographic of maintenance if you will so just just ideas and i know they they're all ideas we
punch holes in them until we get them perfect and then we throw them in the oven and bake them.
And so that's what I want to bring that as a little bit of a pushback to say you have two different types of engagements.
Commercial is definitely different from individual.
And lastly, when people are spending or transacting whatever they do in their in their currency just like when you shop anywhere
now you have different forms of payment you don't only you can't only just go in there and spend
cash you can go in there and spend like eight or nine different types of current or pull from
different areas i should say so when we started talking about uh ape chain on ape coin we may i think it would be foolish for us to limit
to all the transactions being made in only ape coin in the other side even though that's ours
it's our flagship it's our it's our thing it's our currency i think if you still have other forms
that are kind of like hidden a little bit you know how sometimes it's harder to find the crypto
payment button when you you're going through your cards and stuff.
You say, well, where's the crypto? But oh, there it is. It's hidden.
So if it's de-incentivized a little bit or discouraged a little bit more, it still would be good to have other forms of currency accepted.
So I don't I mean, that's to be seen going forward.
But and it's definitely day one.
But I would say hopefully you're probably on the board anyway.
We know how you are. You're behind every fucking thing that happens in the system now that we find it now.
But hopefully we have other forms of payment as well. I land my plan.
There are some infrastructure that's already put in place right now where we can already see, like for example, if you've seen Clutch Market,
they're doing like Solana futures.
And so people are buying on Solana,
but they're actually buying ApeCoin
and they don't realize it.
There's also things like Relay
in which you can say,
hey, here's all your,
and even with the recent announcement with,
we know that with Glyph,
we're gonna allow people to pay
in either Apple ID announcement with, you know, we know that with Glyph, we're going to allow people to pay in
either Apple ID or in any debit card form in 75 seconds or less up to $500 with no KYC.
But also in terms of currencies, you know, you've seen Magic Eden incorporate, you know, a relay
swap where you just say, hey, I have BTC or I have this, but it's denominated
in ApeCoin. And the moment you hit buy, it swaps on the back end. And that's abstracted away from
the user. So I think that that is like a nuance that doesn't really matter to the user as long
as they don't have to do any swapping and they click buy and they have BTC or they have Solana
or they will accept multiple currencies. But the glyph um the stripe uh you know all those kind of integrations goes to show that
that that doesn't matter and that in the back end they will be buying apecoin but they just won't
realize it touche touche my boy thank you for that i mean i want to just type back into something
that gaga had mentioned a little bit earlier about, you know, killer apps and just ideas you'd like to see.
And, you know, there was an example of like even running around as Sonic collecting ERC-20s, you know, and there could be, I would imagine if I'm hosting some sort of experience and, you know, there's a real, you know, great ERC-20 that's on ApeChain, like, cool, I can make an entire experience out of that.
So it could actually encourage more ERC-20s to be utilized on ApeChain because the rails are there.
And so I, yeah, feel free to jump in because I definitely thought of that.
Yeah, I actually have a completely different perspective.
I think that we need to do everything we can to capture liquidity and keep it on ApeChain.
It's such a competitive market right now.
If you're going to be on ApeChain, you can use the currency.
Apechain, you can use the currency.
That's the way that I look at it, right?
And there is infrastructure out there.
And there is infrastructure out there.
There's stuff that basically makes it super easy to grab any asset and turn it into Apechain.
And that, by design, will actually help our price, right?
Like, if guys are coming over and they have to use Apecoin, like, to me, that's more important
than giving people the flexibility of what currency they want to use.
Because, like, you want the experience, you want to come over and and join this ecosystem then go grab then
go grab the ape coin right like grab okay so you got a little bit of ethereum turn it into apecoin
because then you can do all of these kind of things um it it's not it doesn't really matter
because it will if you don't care about bolstering the native token then what's the whole point of the chain right like
like what's the point of even having a token right we like them because at the end of the day we get
judged by the token and we get judged by how much token velocity it has how much liquidity is being
you know dragged from other ecosystems and all that kind of stuff so like i think that needs to
be a center focus in my opinion um to capture liquidity from other chains and bring it and turn it into ApeCoin because all good things are going to happen from that.
So I think I think it's a very simple formula, especially if you're building.
And that's why they would do a move like say, hey, ApeCoin is going to be what runs the ecosystem is we want to capture all that outside liquidity.
I would say incentives, not mandates, because with the mandates, then you kind of, you know, people in crypto, they quit to turn away and run away.
I would at least let them get in there and get their feet wet and incentivize it rather than just mandating it.
Because mandating it, it's just like saying you're Bitcoin or not Bitcoin.
I mean, it's I don't know.
Well, think about the biggest think about the biggest dApps on other chains.
Do they they make you use the coin of the chain. And if it's another coin from another chain, it's going to be, I don't know, Ethereum on Solana. That's why these chains have native DEXs, right? Because that's the asset. That's the base pair. We need to bolster that.
holster that because that's what's like at the end of the day, that's what's going to give us
sustainability. If everyone's just coming in and they don't really need to use our asset on the
first jump, then what, like, why does it matter where they're at, right? And we already have the
stuff that's going to make it so anybody can come over and, you know, they can log in with social
login, account abstraction, all that kind of stuff. But at the same time, you still do need
that liquidity flow into APE. We need to channel channel it there needs to be all roads lead to ape um for
all like everything we definitely agree with that that's like the products and experiences like the
other side that's why the focus is great launching you know the chain as you said Did Minty cut out for anyone else?
I thought it was just me.
Yeah, I think it dropped.
All right, Minty, go ahead and round trip.
Let's say what's up to Derek.
What's up, Derek?
Hey, guys.
I mean, Coco and Minty and a bunch of other guys have already touched on everything I want to talk about.
I mean, Coco and Minty and a bunch of other guys have already touched on everything I want to talk about.
But I just want to say, you know, the one thing that I think a bunch of people are missing,
well, not us who are involved in the DAO and, you know, who show up every day,
but people on the outside looking in who never actually participated in the DAO,
I think what they're missing, you know, with this moving from the DAO to APCO is they're missing the community aspect.
For what it was, say what you will, the DAO
had a specific function for the community, whether it's a discord or
discourse. You can see the same people running around.
There's a lot of discourse going back and forth.
But I think we could know, we could have,
it's difficult for me to say this because, you know, I agree that the DAO needed to change.
I'm just not, I think that we had a lot of opportunities
to actually fix everything that APCO is now going to fix.
We in the DAO and those of us who paid attention
with the AIPs and all this stuff,
no matter how much we fought with the special council, we fought and fought with them, the facilitators.
I mean, we had the opportunity to fix this.
It was only just one thing.
All we needed to do was to fix the voting.
If we had fixed the voting and made it one vote, we would not be here.
And a lot of us tried to, you know, fought that battle.
A lot of us didn't win that battle.
And it never went anywhere.
That's all it would have taken. We would have preserved the doubt. We would have had more controls. We would
have had more people involved because a lot of people didn't want to get involved, didn't want
to do so because they figured that anybody with a lot of ape could just do what they want, vote
what AIPs they wanted, and they didn't like that. So they never participated.
Don't get me wrong, I support the move to
Apeco, but at the end of the day,
we are going to lose what made
the DAO community what it was.
And one last thing,
I know this is going to be
a sore
subject, but if I don't say something,
then it wouldn't be me. One thing that I've noticed
that I really think a lot of people need to pay attention to, and I think it's unfair.
First of all, you guys know me. I fight with everybody like literally every day in our DAO.
We argue from one thing to the next. I have friends, I have haters, I have people I agree
with, I have people I disagree with. But at the end of the day, it's a community that happens.
We fuss and fight and whatever. One thing that I do not like and which I'm seeing is that all of a sudden,
because Hugo steps in and says, hey, we're going to take control.
We're going to shut the DAO down.
We're going to start a new thing.
We're going to make it a corporation, blah, blah, blah.
Now everyone seems to think or the opinion that the DAO failed because of the people who ran it,
whether it's a special counsel, whether it's the facilitators,
whether it's the working group, and that's wrong.
The DAO didn't fail because of what anybody did.
Those guys worked with what they had, and they had no power to change anything.
The DAO had the power to change everything, the DAO being us.
The DAO had the power to take the steps that were needed.
Every single thing in IPCO was already in the DAO being us. The DAO had the power to take the steps that were needed. Every single thing in IPCO was already in the DAO and could have been done in the DAO
if people had focused. So this whole thing about, yeah, everyone's rejoicing. People who were never
in the DAO for like five minutes, they even know what the hell's going on, all of a sudden have an
opinion on how IPCO is going to be great, even though most of us know what would have made it
work, what didn't work, and we could have fixed it. We just didn't fix it.
But now all of a sudden everyone seems to think that it's the management and the doubt's fault.
And that's not true.
And it's just not right.
I fight with those guys all the time.
You guys have seen my AIPs.
You guys have seen my posts.
There's no love lost between myself and the special counsel and all the facilitators.
I mean, I've been banned twice on this course, go figure.
Or even the working groups. But it's just not right. You know, now all of a sudden,
now those guys look like their pariah. It was all their fault. And it's just not. And I need
you guys to just understand that. I need people to say, well, you know what? The doubt didn't
work because it was all our fault collectively. It wasn't the special counsel.
It wasn't the facilitators.
It wasn't the working groups.
It wasn't any one thing.
So now we're going to go to APCO.
Everything's going to be siloed.
Everyone's rejoicing about the unknown,
forgetting the fact that the DAO, for what it was,
was based on a community.
All that's going to be gone.
Anybody who thinks that community is based on X
hasn't been paying attention.
And one last thing, let me just land the plane by saying,
everybody knows this.
Coca knows this.
Frosty knows this.
Nova knows this.
Every single builder that the DAO produced
who actually took money and showed what to do with the money,
we all know.
And we've had this cry since day one.
If we don't grow this
ecosystem, ApeCo
is going to do anything the DAO couldn't have
done. It would just be taking money from one
pot, putting it in another pot
until the third pot gets empty.
it needs to grow. The name
ApeChain doesn't really matter. I don't think
there should be any, you know, continuous
change and whatnot, but Cocoa is right.
A bunch of people are right.
If ApeCo becomes what the DAO should have done,
then the ecosystem needs to focus on ApeChain,
needs to focus on the token, and dApps on there
need to create incentives for the dApps going on there.
But the token has to be the focus of ApeChain,
because if you allow any other currency, even with or
without incentives, we're going to be right here again,
because everything's going to be diluted, and that's not a way forward.
So that's all I wanted to say. Thanks for letting me speak.
Can I tap in on that?
I just want to reply to that, because there's definitely some there's definitely, I think, some good nuggets in there.
You know, Derek, I appreciate you stating your opinion.
I think the Dow didn't really collapse.
Like it didn't, you know, it's still there, right?
But like it just became too slow, right?
Like it's slow, it's political, it's noisy.
It's just like an unfocused machine.
It just like keeps grinding and grinding, right?
Like it doesn't really produce any real innovation. The current structure is just too bloated. It just
things take too long, even like to make a change to ApeCode to do it that way would have taken
forever. You have to put up AIP after AIP and like, you know, deal with special counsel, like,
you know, holding things up. And it just does not design for a fast moving ecosystem like, you know, like crypto, in my opinion.
And I think, you know, like it's just not, you know, not optimal structure structurally.
So I do think like, you know, did that have good intentions?
And I do think, you know, there's a lot of capital deployed to a lot of really good builders that produce cool stuff.
But in the day, like the system was just not designed to succeed from the very get-go and um yeah it's time for a
change in my opinion let's go to alpha go ahead i just wanted to uh make two points from the outside
looking in i wasn't a part of dow i wasn't a part of any of that but let me tell you why some of us
were here the whole time while all this was going down, but we didn't want to say shit because it was too much crying and bitching and bickering every time when the space is going, two people going and they can't get past leave my my presence in the space just to show um support for the community but i didn't even listen i just put it down and go and do something
else that's number one the second thing is like when you go to ape co you're thinking about
changing the guard right so ape co is either ape is either a company or corporation one of the two
hopefully but when you go inside a company in the real world or out
and, you know, when you go, when we close these computers down and we go inside a company,
we don't have a say so in what they're doing. We just have to see if we're going to patronize
what they're offering. And that's kind of like what I feel like the changing of the guard feels
like, which I'm with that because if we stay stagnant with everybody, you know, with the prior guard that we had,
and I take my hat off to everybody who was involved because it took a lot to do that.
And whatever, you know, whatever capacity that was.
But if we stay stagnant with the same type of energy, then we never go anywhere.
And insanity is doing the same thing and trying to look for different results.
So I think this new energy and, you know, we've always been saying, hey, man, all the founders got to do is just come online and just say, fuck it.
And guess what? We throw a party and we go crazy.
Well, he said, fuck it.
And I think at a good point, because it's time for some change, because other than than that we just kind of lethargically just
hanging out doing the same thing looking for different results i land my plane yeah yeah i
mean a couple other things i think maybe worth mentioning here right i think one is like the
dao was a pretty niche community it was like a hundred of us you know who were you know basically
like you know talking among among back and forth between each other there's like no new people
entering the dao over like you know the three-year period it was it was around so super niche community right so that's i think
definitely like one of the biggest things i don't think like the dao really grew the pie that much
of the community there's just like a small community from the very start and like you know
it's you know fluctuated over time i think the second part it was like it wasn't very democratic
like there was like two big voters i think it it was Malkaverse and one other voter.
At one point, it was Machi.
It was a different Machi throughout the DAOs cycle.
They could have been able to come in and just kill AIPs with a single vote.
There's two or three voters every time that's controlled every single AIP outcome.
That was probably the hardest part.
It wasn't really that decentralized.
There's two or three people that decided every single vote.
Right.
Like, so I don't think the system was really designed for success from the very beginning.
Yeah, that's true, though.
But one of the things, I mean, I agree with all that.
But one of the things that, you know, I've always said is that people, everything that the DAO, all the processes the DAO had came from AIP
one and two.
And the special counsel, the facilitators, the working groups, everybody adhered to that.
The thing is, like every corporation, you build a process, it doesn't work, you pivot
to something else.
You build a product, it doesn't work, you pivot to something else.
Every single thing that was in the DAO that was wrong.
I mean, I wrote, I think I wrote more AIPs than anybody in the DAO ever I mean I checked that
and if you go back and look at on this course and just pull up my profile look at all the AIPs
you will see that I meticulously went line by line by line figured every single thing that I
thought would work because of the pivot for instance you know AIPs take too long sorry I'll
land the plane in a second AIPs taking too long we can, I'll end the play in a second.
AIPs taking too long, we can fix that.
And AIP was there to fix that.
Stuff takes too long in ADN review.
There was an AIP to fix that.
Every single thing that made the doubt lethargic could have been fixed.
But we couldn't fix it because we couldn't get to vote on it.
Exactly.
Go ahead, Nova. I'm going to ask you, Derek.
You said that you had the most AIPs.
How many were passed? How manyPs. How many were passed?
Like how many total and how many were passed?
One.
One.
AIP 466.
One.
Only one.
In fact, three didn't go to vote.
The other ones were languished in admin review.
I just sent the facility.
There is an email saying, you know what?
Just fuck it.
Just pull them because it wasn't going anywhere.
I mean, lots of admin.
I'm not the only one.
A lot of the AIPs get stuck in admin review for whatever reason. just fuck it, just pull them, because it wasn't going anywhere. I mean, lots of admin, and I'm not the only one,
a lot of the AIPs get stuck in admin review for whatever reason.
Some of them get sent back for reconstruction because we misinterpreted AIP1 or the procedure, the rules, and whatever.
But this is part of what Novo was talking about.
Sometimes things take too long or things don't work right,
and then when you try to fix it, you can't
because then you hit all these roadblocks. Now, IPCO is going to fix all that, but it's going to take it
away from the community. It's no longer going to be in the hands of the DAO. It's going to be in
the hands of five or six people. I think as good as that may be, it's going to end up losing the
culture of what made the DAO. Even if it was 100 people or 50 people,
it was 100 or 50 people who participated
that made all this noise.
So now it's going to be on X, it's going to be on Discord,
I don't know what Yuga plans to do with ApeCo,
but my concern is that as dysfunctional as the DAO was,
it had a whole bunch of voices.
And where are those voices going to go now? How are they going to participate? How are they going to make a difference? A DAO was, it had a whole bunch of voices. And where are those voices going to go now?
How are they going to participate?
How are they going to make a difference?
A DAO does that.
A DAO is funding all these things that small guys, 10K here, 5K here, 2K here,
FANCA, one of the, besides Nova and Frosty and Coca and all the guys we know,
I mean, FANCA was one of the best things that came out of the DAO.
That's gone. They're not going to get funded.
Apeco says they could fund them and whatever.
The point I'm making is the DAO
put out a whole bunch of good things
and I don't see how we're going to get that
opportunity again through a
corporate structure like Apeco and that's
what I think people need to be focused on.
It's a good idea, but I think
we lose something in that sacrifice.
Yeah, I mean, I view Apeco.
I mean, first of all, I think Apeco's structure is worth discussing here.
Gargantus will be a public benefit corporation, most likely.
So for those of you who are not aware, essentially, it's like a for-profit company that is legally obligated to pursue a specific social or public good.
obligative to pursue a specific social or public good.
So I just still expect ApeCo to be able to invest in the ecosystem,
be able to support builders.
You might see some grants.
You might see some investments for exchange for equity or tokens
or a combination of both.
But I still expect them to support builders in the ecosystem, I think.
Alpha, go ahead.
Jump in here.
I don't know if the office is so it's all good um if if i'm on me alpha no no i didn't have my hand up i might have
get stuck up but i didn't have my okay okay it's like permanently up okay yo um giant joined us on
the stage earlier with garga i want to have an opportunity to say what's up to Giant.
Welcome to Kill Dao Volume 1.
I know you DM me letting us know you had a question for Garga.
I'm sorry we weren't able to get to it.
Perhaps you can kind of ask here, open it up to the group.
Can anyone hear Giant? No, I can't hear him. Okay. Can you hear him?
No, I can't hear him.
Okay.
Can you hear me?
Can you hear me right now?
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
What's up, Giant? Okay.
Thanks for having me on, Nana.
And yeah, man, I didn't want to interrupt the conversation earlier.
It was, you know, I wanted to hear it too.
I'm not very technical.
I honestly got inspired by Apes. I an ape i'm 21. i've been an ape for six months always wanted to be one and i really like
metaverse experiences mainly got it because of you know i want to be on other side on ape chain
and you know all my friends are apes and i wanted to see if i will be
able to play it with a bpn on because i live in lebanon it's crypto is you know not crypto but
usually most of the games are restricted in my country but other games i can play them with a
bpn on other side it wasn't same. I couldn't play it at all.
So I had this question for Garga to see
if I will be able to play it in the future
or I would be able to access it somehow
because I love building experiences.
You know, I've played on multiple games
like Nifty Islands, you know, building islands.
Yeah. Yeah, so I might be able to shed some light on that. played on multiple games like nifty islands you know building islands yeah and yeah so um
i might be able to shed some light on that so first of all i mean i think the global coverage
from square network is always expanding so they are adding more and more geographies as they scale
their network so um that's what the first thing second thing is like other side is going to be
pixel stream but also there will be a local client as well, right?
Pixlr streaming has like less global coverage
than the local client does,
because it requires a lot less bandwidth
to just run it locally than to Pixlr stream.
So you should be able to download the other side
directly to your computer and just run the game locally
on your device.
So I think with that,
like it should be hopefully available everywhere not just
you know like certain countries
i had this similar experience with multiple like nifty island was a similar problem but you know
it's i had it downloaded locally and everything but uh I think, you know, the problem is the country, you know,
being restricted from crypto and stuff.
Oh, yeah.
Is Lebanon on the restricted countries list?
Could that be why?
I'm just not familiar.
I'm not sure.
Because some games I can play them, some games I can't.
Some websites I can access them, some games I can't, some websites I can access them, some websites I can't.
BoardApe website, I think I need VPN as well.
But yeah, thanks for having me and letting me ask this here.
I also, I heard a little bit about AI.
You know, it goes so far beyond chat GPT with automations and, you
know, so many websites and tools to use.
So if anyone wants to get, uh, you know, know more about that, I've been focusing on that
for a long time now.
I'd love to help anyone that are interested.
Thanks for having me.
Awesome, Giant.
Yo, let's say what's up.
I'm Fossies.ies uh are you with us
today how you doing man oh yeah i see the emoji it's your farming engagement i invite followers
i invite frosties up man for those that don't know, Frosty's recently launched Ape Control and is really focused on really bringing the ecosystem, the different dApps, and creating some new experiences with a streaming platform where we just saw Tropical Virtual just two days ago stream the ODK, the Other Side Development Kit and one of the the worlds that he was building out
from the sky deed and what was so cool about jumping into ape control to watch the tropical
stream uh was there was on-chain tipping using ape chain uh which was so cool to see the community jump in there, show their support,
was able to ask questions with Tropical. And I think it really inspired people, including myself,
to apply to stream on that platform. And shortly after, as I'm going to dish off
certain feedback for Frosties, see him post an update like 30
minutes after the stream ends with like some updates that i was gonna deliver feedback on
this guy stays shipping frosties i know it's probably super late where you are but if you
have an opportunity to unmute say what's up please do all right all right Please do.
All right.
All right.
He probably doesn't have a mic.
He's probably busy.
He probably doesn't have a mic right now.
But y'all should follow Frosty's.
He's been a day one other Space FM community member supporter.
So definitely put it. I have them on Noties, man.
That's how I got the alpha for the Fade NFTs,
which are offering utility for that platform.
But I can't put up Frosty's enough.
He's just such a valuable builder in the space.
Frosty's goes hard, dude. We know and understand the love.
And it's so interesting to watch how his building is coming to fruition, right? These things that like we're
able to have contact with and engage with. I was blown away by a control. I had no idea he was
building it. I thought, you know, I was, I was kind of still in fade with him, but then I was like,
Oh, he's building this amazing. I had like no idea. I had to like look into it and it's great.
It's amazing. I'm just like, this is a really interesting way of engaging the entire ecosystem.
So really, tip of the hat, sir.
Yeah.
As soon as Other Side Wiki is launched, which he's revamping, which is also got support
from the ApeCoin DAO and AIP, Other Side Wiki is going to be revamped.
on AIP. OtherSideWiki is going to be revamped. And I'll be doing a deep dive on ApeControl,
on just helping people shop for Adid and use the tool that he's building, because I am so curious
to just see what all the changes are and help give context to helping people make more informed
decisions when it comes to any sort of shopping
or purchasing anything other side related.
So super stoked for that.
Thank you, Frosties, for approving me as a streamer.
I'm looking forward to jumping in there.
Frosties did DM me saying that he has no microphone right now
because he's on desktop.
Got it.
Which I respond.
If you want to start a tipping jar of frosties,
we'll gladly contribute to it to buy you a mic.
Well, I did invite him up,
so you know how finicky desktop is.
By the way, Elon did post something
about having a native X app on at least Mac OS
and is hiring for like Swift developers.
So I'm looking forward to that, you know,
because desktop and spaces,
they just don't go well together.
So I'm looking forward to, you know,
revamp native app for X on the desktop.
Let's see, Machiavelli, what's up, my man? Very fun guy. Vamp native app for X on the desktop.
Let's see.
Machiavelli.
What's up, my man?
Very fine guy, Elon.
Yes, very fine.
Yo, what's up, guys?
What's up, dude?
Listen, I don't want to say, listen, this isn't about anybody particular or anything like that, but like
You know the dows had a certain amount of time to do things and like just from a spectator looking on the outside in like
There needs just to be some kind of freshness or life
Brought into the ecosystem. There needs to be a hardcore change that speeds things up and there's been a
lot of opportunity and a lot of whatever whatever nobody could band together to get the things passed
or whatever i don't know what the what the whole deal is it's none of my business but what is my
business is that this whole ecosystem is evolving and it needs to evolve rapidly because the
community expands outside of the down now with the Ape Chain.
And there needs to be some type of like, you know, Ape Co or whatever it is that is going to do that.
And like, that's what I want to support. I want to support that new energy.
But most importantly, I want to get rid of all that old energy that's kept people away from the Dow.
And I want to get rid of all that bickering and all that energy that's lived within this ecosystem that hasn't helped evolve and push this brand forward.
That's what I want to vote for.
That's what I want to see.
You know what I'm saying?
I just want to see that evolution.
And with the bathroom blitz coming and other deeds going live in December and stuff like that like there needs to be a unification across the fronts and the way that we all market the way that we do things and push to
other platforms and stuff like that because this is a huge deal you know what I'm saying and we
have the largest fucking marketing team in the world when it comes to this chain to this brand
to everything you know what I'm saying like we're the best representatives of that. So I just want to see that change. I want to see that growth. And I think that, you know,
banding together and unifying will help accelerate that versus anything else.
Let's go, Mark. You know, you bring up a good point too. I mean mean it's not before there was just such a push on getting people to
participate in the dow and the process whereas we just need to participate in these experiences
because that's in turn going to grow ape chain and ape coin so i i think it it is much harder
to kind of foster more participation participation and, you know, your contributions in the
DAO than it is to participate in all the cool things that are happening on ApeChain.
And so I see that growing, just being a way for people to get involved much easier than having to put up with any sort of,
you know,
involvement with actual governance.
So I still think it's going to be important to have ways and a strategy.
Governance is so fun.
That's what I'm gonna do with my other side,
dude.
I'm just going to create long lines.
You have to get in long lines in order to vote on things that are just really,
really random.
And,
you know,
Ben,
I'm just going to have a whale come in and to counteract your vote.
I don't want to bash it too hard, but, you know, I think that's, that's, that's also the energy,
you know, that I felt where I'm like, fucking burnt out on all these things, like election
season happening, like kudos to everyone who's sticking their neck out but uh
at the same time like i'd rather just you know as dork says ape co is ape go let's go baby yo uh
what's up mm yo yo what's up guys i'm actually the use case for you right now because i'm on a pc
on spaces been talking to frosties on the dm so yeah i'm everything that you need right now because I'm on a PC, on spaces, been talking to Frosties on the DM.
So yeah, I'm everything that you need right now.
It's got approved too for Ape Central, so that'll be cool.
Yeah.
I don't even know yet.
Is it Central or Control?
Ape Control.
Control.
Like the control button.
Yeah, so we'll see.
I need to spin up my rig and and try to start streaming let's go
it'll be cool yeah excited man you've been making some moves and uh i think it's also a really great
way to tap into you know what we were talking about of supporting builders you know he's doing
ape control almost like on the side uh you know it's a project and for the community to show up like this and showcase how it
can offer value to other creators and people that are in the ecosystem.
You know,
I think,
I think it's great when people are starting to connect the dots amongst all
the different tools,
you know,
Dutchie knows a little something about that.
Yo, I want to say what's up to the homie Cram.
What's up, Cram?
Yo, what's good, man?
What's good, man?
Man, doing all right.
What's your take?
It's been a minute.
Yeah, no, so I appreciate you setting up the space.
And from what I understood, you guys had Garga on earlier.
I've been busy with other stuff, so I didn't get a chance to listen.
I'll probably listen back to the recording.
I know you asked Garga about what happens to the funds that essentially were stolen from the DAO.
They never built anything. What was Garga's take on that that question um I don't know if you really had a take I think kind of
says you know it's just like the I think they'll try to maybe get the funds back but ultimately
it's it's hard because like you know the DAO is a Cayman island entity right so like in order to
I guess sue anybody you first have to you know go to Cayman courts and get a judgment, you know, there.
And then take that judgment to a foreign country where the person that, you know, got the funds resides and try to get the judgment enforced there, you know.
And depending on where the person is, I mean, if it's like U.S., for example, it might be easier if they're like in Dubai or like, you know, somewhere else, you know, good luck, you know, probably be easier if they're in Dubai or somewhere else. Good luck.
Probably not going to be enforced in Dubai courts.
But yeah, it's just a long and very expensive and complicated process to do that.
So chances are we're probably not going to see anybody get clawbacks.
At least that's what I think.
What do you all think about, would that be any different?
That was kind of my question for Garga, or at least I was trying to get at.
How would Apeco, how would it be different with Apeco when it comes to accountability?
I would think, based on milestone delivery, the amount of support that they're going to give any particular builder or platform that is being funded,
the negotiations for if there is a TGE for like a protocol or something that's launching,
that there's negotiations for the community for allocation.
Yeah, I would imagine, you imagine, especially milestone-based funding and then also the ability
to claw back with Apeco could actually be more efficient. Milestones and having a position
that audits. I mean, that's what happens in the entertainment business. It's just like,
when I do projects, the unions, they audit.
They just like – it's not like, oh, they must have done something wrong.
It's just like this is the course of business.
End of the year, hey, what did you guys do?
Let's take a look at the books.
It's transparency so that they can understand, oh, great, all our members got paid, et cetera.
I think that same level of accountability needs to be had here.
Anything you do in the Web2 market or business structure needs to be just copied on chain period
So any way to hold liability all of those things just need to whatever however
We need to put in that smart contract
That's gonna hold the other party accountable and that either that signature with the wallet or they sign documents or whatever
It is that they signed that they accepted that liability needs to be held accountable. That's it. That's really what it boils down to
is that we're able to hold accountability with said signatures and agreements, whether verbally,
contractually, online, on chain, all of that. That's really what just needs to happen.
just needs to happen. Big Dutch, did you have something you wanted to add? Yeah, I just, I think,
Big Dutch, did you have something you wanted to add?
yeah, clawbacks are difficult, as you, for the reasons you mentioned. Audits are important to
know sort of when was the last follow-up, right, which we started to see a little bit most recently,
where they would kind of double tap on AIPs that had no response, right, in a large amount of time.
And I think that the other part that you can add to that list of ways to kind of mitigate that is applications for future funding, right?
So, you know, if members of a certain AIP or whatever it is, funding, if it's a small grant or something like that,
AIP or whatever it is funding, if it's a small grant or something like that,
if you haven't delivered on the previous, then, you know, there's a little bit of a,
I guess, digital reputation that, that, that follows you as well. And, and, and that may help,
it may not get the money back, so to speak, but it may prevent sort of a constant.
We put it on their permanent record. That's what I'm talking about.
Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, I think just having a record of kind of who the who the you know parties didn't who didn't follow
through with their promises from the previous structure could um you know inform maybe who
um you know when those applications come in then you're like, okay, well, these people had pitched this XYZ and it's been this
amount of allotted time. And this is what was delivered with, you know, just an analysis of
ROI, right? And so if that ROI tends to be zero, well, then that should factor into decision making
for future funding. You know, we could do, I mean, if we can't get the funds back, what we do is we
make a list of all the authors
that didn't build anything.
And then we go to Ethos
and just have hundreds of apes
give each negative review on there
and just kill their social credit score on there.
At least a little bit like public shaming.
Black Mirror in effect.
Let's go.
Yeah.
Changing their metadata on there.
Yeah.
It's all on chain. Like those reviews are on chain, you know? It's all on-chain.
Those reviews are on-chain.
It's going to be there forever.
No, this is...
Go ahead, Cram.
Kind of like follow-up on this.
So I love that Garga's getting involved with the DAO.
I feel like the DAO has been something kind of...
It's been like an anchor holding down the ecosystem.
That's what it felt like for me.
I've been here since September of 21.
And the moment ApeCoin came out and then the Dow came out, like those funds, I'm like, I'm seeing a lot of outflows.
I've never seen any inflows.
I think there's a few months of some good inflows, but it was like, it just seems like we're just losing money.
And, but you guys see any like potential pitfalls, like with Apeco, like based off of what Gargis touched on?
Because I haven't heard Gargis speak on it a ton.
I know he's doing a lot of spaces, but like any things that, that were, any issues that we're having now with theO, could that technically still happen with Apeco?
What are you guys thinking?
Just based off of his responses?
I mean, issues as far as what?
I'm sorry, can you just elaborate there?
Well, just I guess in general, because I haven't heard him speak super deep on Apeco. I think I listed one of his spaces, but I'm just trying to,
how, I guess if you guys can give me the TLDR, how is it?
Yeah, I guess like, yeah, I guess like it should be a company and you know, it's going to be around
as like a for-profit company now, right? There won't be any voting or community input. There's
just going to be a small group of people that make decisions based on what they believe is
best for the ecosystem, right?
So probably, you know, a lot faster decision making, probably, you know, contracts that
are structured to give value back to the community slash ecosystem, whether that's equity, whether
that's, you know, tokens, whether that's other ways to contribute.
Milestone, I'm guessing probably going to be like milestone based payments now for agreements
where, you know, you won't get the funds up front anymore like you used to um
and yeah probably i'm guessing probably it will be a u.s based company i'm like uh you know the
previous you know dao was a cayman entity so u.s courts are you know i would say much more reputable
the cayman court so getting into uS. judgment enforced somewhere else in the world
is easier than the Cayman island judgment,
at least from the best of my knowledge.
But yeah, I mean, yeah, basically it would be just a for-profit company
that's going to be essentially making decisions
based on what they believe is best.
There won't be like any more AIPs or voting or any of that.
Okay. Also, we'll get to these couple of hands.
I'm going to wind this space down just so you all know.
And we got Board 8 Gazette that should be following up with their show that's starting
at the top of the hour.
I know a lot of you are fresh out of the grateful show.
So appreciate y'all joining today's episode.
Let's check in with Ernest. We'll go with Dutchie and then
Nova, I'm going to circle it to you for some
landing thoughts.
I just had a comment on the
whole thing about the foundation not being able to enforce contracts
because it's located in Cay in caymans that's not true uh form selection clauses are common in all the all the
agreements and certainly um there's a mechanism by which we could enforce agreements in the in the
dow um the second thing i wanted to say is that this is great.
Everyone has been talking for the last
couple of weeks about
ApeCo and
the ApeCoin DAO and
what's the best thing for governance and what
we should be doing.
But I think in answer to the
previous question, what are we
losing? We're losing all of this.
We're losing all of this community involvement and governance um this these will be the last spaces we talk
about what apeco should and shouldn't be doing uh with any authority and um and i think that's
that's something that we need to we need to think about and um yeah that's uh that's the two things and then and then defending the apecoin dal
the dal has been slow but the dell the dell has been slow over the last four months
because the foundation hasn't done anything that hasn't done the things that aip um
that the revamp aip put in place for the voting. And so voting would have been a lot faster
if the revamp AIP would have been implemented.
I mean, we're talking 30 days from proposal to vote
and immediate implementation.
And so now we can say, you know,
the DAO has been slow and there's admin review.
Well, we got rid of admin review with the revamp AIP.
And we would have had on-chain voting
where stuff was proposed on April 1st
and it was voted on by the beginning of May.
And that process would have been timed on-chain
for everything to happen uh and fast and so
we had something in place that wasn't implemented that we are losing now and um yeah that's all i
had to say about that thank you ernest appreciate your perspective dutchy let's go to you. I just wanted to point out something for Cram.
I did take the time to transcribe the very first spaces that me and Port Ape Gazette and Rita hosted with Garga.
And he addressed a lot of these initial questions in terms of, like, structure and how would it work? And, you know, not saying that it addressed everything, but we did scan sort of all the spaces, try to condense themes and transcribe it.
Now, I know apes don't read, so I know that that's a little bit like kryptonite.
But what you can do is you can parse this thread and then and then basically look to the question.
It always starts with the question and then read the answer that most interests you.
And that's probably easier than fast forwarding through a three hour space.
So that, you know, I did take the time to transcribe that.
So if that's helpful for you to get like quick answers, there's a reason why I didn't do a TLDR.
I know a lot of apes said, you know, can you just tell me in one sentence if this is bullish or not?
One thing I, you know, considering there's a lot of like legal framework and specifically worded answers, I'm not going to be the one to do a TLDR
of Garga's words. So I'd prefer if you read it exactly word for word, what he said, and that way
I'm not the one reframing it. So that's why I didn't take the time to do a TLDR because it's
all sensitive and up in the air. But if you do want to get to a specific question, like what is
it? What's the future question, like what is it?
What's the future?
How do they see it?
You know, what are they looking to fund?
All those kinds of things.
And you can just scroll through each post in the thread
and just go, oh, that's what I'd like to read.
And maybe that helps the apes
that don't really enjoy reading too much.
So I don't want to pin it over the claim code
because we love the other page badge,
but it's pinned to my profile if anyone's interested in reading that.
Appreciate you, Dutchie. I'll check it out.
Yo, Dutchie, I'm going to need you to try and scrub this space too. Thanks, bro.
So you know in advance I'm going to do that.
So you can just wait there so you know people
look up that thread uh you know it's always dope to uh you mentioned the badge too it's always dope
to see who showed up and uh you know one token of appreciation you know just to just to show
you're part of this community uh you never know what what types of utility and things that we can add to this, but as a creator
it's really empowering. I would say the same for Dutchie.
So go follow Dutchie. Check out his
bio. He does have an OG badge claim right now.
And both Other Space FM and
Ape News, Dutchies Committee, have
offered some pretty cool utility. Night
Gliders, we offered
50 guaranteed
allowless spots
during the last episode
so congratulations everyone
who grabbed an OSFM
Night Glider badge, you have
guaranteed
allowless access for this upcoming
mitt on Ape Chain. And shit, man,
that shit has been getting pretty
hyped. Some pretty good
feedback so far on the timeline with
regards to this beautiful pixel art
and some of the worlds that they're
building.
So shout out to Pilot, shout out to the Night Gliders,
and Dutchie,
appreciate you joining us today on stage as well.
And that includes Garga and everyone else who pulled up to this space on stage.
Nova, I just wanted to circle back with you.
If you have any closing thoughts, I would love to have you share.
I just want to say thank you to all of you for listening in today.
It was a great space.
Thank you for CryptoGarga for joining us today.
The AIP, you know, the DAO AIP, the Sunset of the DAO is going for a vote tonight and about five hours from now.
AIP 596.
So definitely go check it out.
Vote, you know, with your heart.
You know, if it's a yes or no, whatever you said said to do it's okay with me i don't care uh and uh we are going to be dropping collectible to
commemorate the dao shutdown pretty soon here so definitely look out for something cool coming from
other page you'll be able to mint uh there'll be a forever unchained to kind of celebrate the DAO's legacy or the
lack thereof, or maybe commission both. And yeah,
thank you all of you for coming today. I really appreciate you guys.
I'm excited for, you know,
next space that we're going to host and definitely get your badge today.
You know, you just never know what's going to happen.
And we have a badge from other page could be, you know,
airdrop potentially, you know, at any given time.
Something you must have.
According to Nova.
Something you must have.
That is something you must fucking have in your wallet.
Yo, my dead friends.
I skipped you over, my dead friends.
You know, I meant to close this space up at the top of the hour,
but if you want to quickly jump in
Say what's up and have something to share
Yo yo yo
My dead friends
I just wanted to come in real quick man and just say yo you guys are doing a great job
I'm not going to take up any of you guys' time
Let's get into that other board gazette spaces
Don't forget to go claim your other space
FM badges go to the other page right now to claim
That badge man
My dead friends
Yeah
Let's go thank you for joining Killedown to the other page right now to claim that badge, man. My dead friends. Yeah.
Let's go. Thank you for joining Kill Down Volume 1.
had a great episode of Other Space
FM. So, appreciate y'all for
pulling up. Definitely claim that badge.
Tap in on that bottom right-hand corner.
Repost this space as it's recorded.
And go vote on the
AIP. Peace everyone. Thank you.
