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K:offee with Kadena #4
Recorded: Oct. 30, 2023 Duration: 1:04:31Space Recording
Full Transcription
Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, everybody.
Once again, thank you for joining us on Coffee with Gdana.
You guys are early.
You know I always appreciate this, but you know what we've got to do?
We've got to wait for those that are running a bit late.
So stick around.
We're going to give everybody a couple of minutes, as always, to roll in,
and then we'll get started.
So, again, as I always say, when you are waiting,
you might as well just go retweet this space,
share it with your friends, your family, your communities,
let everybody know that we'll be hanging out for the next little bit,
and we will start this up very soon.
Cool. Thanks.
topics relevant to the cadena community and bring more interaction and communication directly from
the team to you guys so there will be banter there will be guests there will be information
there will be questions there will be gms in undoubtedly a lot of gms so this is a bit of
more of a casual space as you probably already gathered so you know feel free to drop questions
in on the twitter thread feel free to jump in the discord and ask questions um we want to make this
as interactive as possible and like i said today's topic is going to be great today we're going to be
talking about the transition from web 2 to web 3 and before i introduce our guests i wanted to
welcome the gm maestro himself ryan welcome how are you doing buddy gm gm gm my friend
you know i can never kick off a monday without excitement motivation uh all pumped up had an
amazing weekend for those of you that got to celebrate um halloween weekend is always super
fun uh i did manage to actually get out and about and uh put on my what should i say dust off my good
old dancing shoes and have some good fun this weekend um and i guess the shenanigans continue
tomorrow for actual halloween but uh gm and a happy monday to everybody we do have um an incredible
lineup of speakers that have joined here um some projects building on kadena some thought leaders
some all-round uh unbelievable people that i just love spending time with and uh some good banter to go
with it so yeah good morning everybody awesome sorry i was fighting through some technical issues
in the background there so as always elon's always throwing a curve into my life you know yeah for him
i mean um there have been so many issues with this platform lately from uh you know being bumped down
from speaker to listener or losing uh audio i don't know what's going on but uh hopefully it'll
recover soon it's been a bit of a pain yeah but we love it just the same so uh yeah so before we uh
we jump into today's topic i do have some updates and some news and some reviews uh for everybody and
i'll get through this really quick so if you didn't see it last week we had a fire campfire with
stewart stewart and scott if you haven't watched that i cannot recommend going to watch that campfire
anymore um it was amazing it was um enlightening and we may have learned who satoshi was i mean
the uh the uh the translator told us who it was so go go go listen i think it's i think it's a good
time that was definitely questionable um i'm not gonna lie that was super fun talk about incredible
speakers um bunch of alpha i would i've been enjoying the feedback from the community uh there've
been a few people in the community that have been trying to dive deeper into any hidden messaging you
know uh forget about finding the hidden k they've been trying to find the hidden messaging around who
satoshi actually is and i got to uh love people's ingenuity and people's uh imagination but that was
super fun that was really an incredible uh campfire yeah it was there was a ton of alpha and you know
finding uh yeah finding satoshi we could write a we could write a book about that um speaking of
finding hidden satoshis um another thing that's happening is our zealy quest for the month of
october is wrapping up tomorrow tomorrow's the last day um we've added some fun halloween quests we have
added some interactive quests and one of the ones that we added was the feedback and we've been getting
lots of great feedback from everybody we are in the process of evaluating that making a short list
of things that we can take action on now take action on later and ideas that we want to incorporate so
um i greatly appreciate it um it adds a little more work to my schedule but you know what i love
hearing from you guys so keep doing that um and to go back a little bit this week's campfire
campfire number 37 i can't believe we're at 37 um it's it's quite amazing uh is approaching and our
guest this week is the head of core engineering none other than miss emily pilmore so we welcome we're
going to welcome her up on stage on the campfire and i think that's going to be a great chat as well
um the other big news um huge news marmalade v2 launched last week on mainnet on tuesday so i think
that's something we've all been waiting for something that we were excited from something that you know
took a little bit longer because we uh had a little bit of back and forth and and made some
changes so i'm super pumped about that i hope everybody is as well and then last um from the
community perspective uh we did a couple of things we changed the discord a little bit some people
noticed um we added a new ai bot into the telegram called little ai and so what this bot is if you see
it around is a spam bot so it's taking care of all of the spam that would have been posted um but it
gets deleted right away now as everything is new and we're still you know we're still adjusting it to
our community if you happen to get one of your messages deleted just let us know it's happened a
couple of times we're still training it it is ai after all i mean it will rise against us at some
point and it's beginning to now so just let us know and we'll uh make sure that everything gets
set straight and um the other thing and the last thing is we have seen an incredible increase in
activity in the telegram and in the discord over the last couple of weeks that is something we monitor
we do do stats uh every couple of days and i just want to say personally thanks guys for being more
active um love seeing it love seeing the excitement i mean a lot of it had to do with the campfire and
we're hoping to continue to bring um opportunities and activities and engagement to the community like
we did last week so um again greatly appreciate it look forward to more events that will hopefully
generate more buzz in our community coming soon now without further ado ryan do you want to
introduce our guests for today i do but before we do have we even discussed what we're going to be
talking about i briefly mentioned it i figured i figured i'd leave that for you yeah that's good
that's good so we were throwing around a bunch of topics last week we'd like to find topics that
are engaging interesting uh there may be top of mind there may be back of the mind who knows
uh maybe bottom of the mind uh but we do want to make sure that each week we're covering topics
that we can also get community and builders and partners and um experts to contribute as well
so today we decided why not talk about web2 web2 enterprise and the move or the the viable move
of web2 of web2 to web3 um does it make sense why does it make sense if it does uh what kind of
applications what's the value prop uh what are some of the use cases today um what are some of the
projects that are already doing this uh of course there's a lot that we don't even know about that's
happening in the background because many organizations operate behind closed doors before they make
announcements in fact many organizations don't ever make the announcement about it they just use the
blockchain um but i think one of the questions so while we were talking about this um somebody raised
a question around what is web1 web2 web3 how do we explain that and i'm gonna give just the real
quick and i think i've shared this before but i'm just gonna give the real quick analogy that i use
whenever somebody asked me the difference between web1 web2 web3 and you know are we just is it just
smoke and mirrors and what are we making up here so when i think about web1 i think about the concept
of read it was essentially um the ability to now read newsletters and static websites and consume
information but it was primarily in a one-way format so uh you went on to a website it was probably hosted by
netscape or uh one of those platforms way back when and you read a shadow to mosaic
if anybody remembers mosaic there you go mosaic um and and this was long before of course uh chrome
and firefox and brave and any other the other um web browsers but this was uh one direction you got to
consume information um it was instead of just getting those um newsletters or whatever in your
mailbox you now got to read them online great that's the read now the birth of web2 is where we
introduced the concept of right so you've got read right um a way of communicating back and forth so
um of course uh instant messaging uh email back and forth chat applications um the advent and the the use
of applications now moving to the internet moving to the cloud as i use my virtually inverted commas
um uh organizations uh interacting across the the internet but it was also two-way communication
uh ability to interact with it now use your apps with it uh interact with multiple either databases or
applications or whatever else but you basically move from read to read write then we get the birth of
web3 and uh for those i think all of us are heavily immersed in web3 the biggest piece that you get out of
that which is the differentiator from web1 and web2 is ownership so the way i always talk about it is
web1 read web2 read write web3 read write own where you finally get to take full control of your data
of your access of your applications uh in this instance of your funds of your transactions
of your actions and can fully control what you are doing without the necessary need for some kind of
intermediary or some kind of um organization as such that is taking any kind of control or access or
or whatnot to to your data and your your um experience so read read write read write own that's
my version um of how i like to explain it it's how i like to uh talk about the difference between web1
web2 web3 um always open to any other suggestions or ways of describing that
now let's talk about web2 and web2 enterprises coming into web3 so i want to say one thing
which i think is very important and this is i believe true to blockchain web3 as a whole
not everything belongs on the blockchain not everything belongs in web3 and in fact i think what
we're going to see and already starting to see is a very similar model to what we saw with the birth
of cloud so when cloud computing came into play uh it was this mystical magical black box in the sky
that nobody knew about uh where do i plug my ethernet into and how do i use it and how do i access it and
how does it secure and people in the first instance stepped back and went absolutely not i'm not putting
anything in the cloud i'm not going to access the cloud i'm not going to use this and uh enterprises
backed off from doing it um and that's when we started seeing instead of going directly to
uh public cloud they looked at the options of building private clouds same as what we saw with
blockchain we saw certain organizations build private blockchains um and then what you started
seeing was people getting more comfortable with it reliability security that was the biggest concern around
um cloud was security and access and then you started seeing people doing these hybrid models something
lived on site something lived on a private blockchain oh sorry on a private cloud and
some data started moving to the public cloud and then slowly over time we saw that majority of workloads
moved into some kind of cloud-based infrastructure or cloud-based platform now there's always going
to be a requirement to have certain things kept in-house firewalled off air gapped off from the outside world
uh for secure um reasoning for regular regulatory compliance and whatever else and this is quite similar
to what i think is going to be the journey and is being has become the journey for web2 enterprises
as they start dipping their toe into the water of how do we use this blockchain what does it mean how do i
access this what is the user experience for my customers and customers may be uh internal employees maybe uh
external contractors maybe uh the general public and more so or at least alongside that is how do i make
sure that the actual experience of using my application or transacting with me or engaging with me or anything
along those lines is as good or better than what they get today and so
so i just wanted to give that color to the story before we dive into some of the use cases and then
we get some of the experts that we have here uh waiting to speak uh like amir like peter like pecker
um um like jossie uh to actually add and contribute what they've been doing in the web 2 to web 3 space
and how they see the how i see this um whole space evolving so let me give you a couple of
use cases that i feel have been rather valuable i have spoken with a number of organizations about
these where i see web 3 adding value for web 2 companies and again this whole journey from web 2 to web 3
it's not going to happen overnight it doesn't have to have to happen overnight and not everything is
going to move to web 3 but some of the things that are really really critical in understanding is
why would a web 2 company even consider web 3 infrastructure or web 3 capabilities and it comes
down to a handful of items and this is what i think is probably going to be some of the the top
areas for consideration one um improved efficiency in two increased transparency uh you know there
there is no hiding let's be real there's no hiding when you're transacting on the blockchain
uh it is open it is public it is publicly accessible um streamlined operations uh the ability to basically
interoperate and uh streamline your business operations across uh within the blockchain and
across blockchains um enhance security so the way that you interact uh some people do question it once
we start using bridging and or cross-chain messaging but um i think that is certainly getting better and
better over time uh the ability to provide clear and efficient auditing um because you can see what's
happening you can see all the transactions you um they are immutable there is no arguing if it's written
to the blockchain it is there it's not moving it's not changing it's not uh it's not being modified and so
when we take these values or valuable um options or when we take uh those value props and we now start
thinking about web 2 web 2 enterprise moving into web 3 um we start uncovering a number of areas or a number
of use cases as such that that really makes sense and i think we're going to talk about some of these today
supply chain management identity verification payment processing or cross-border payments
um or should i say even better than that borderless payment and processing data sharing um invoking smart contracts
um ip protection uh both intellectual property protection and also um the ability to provide protection for
pii uh data so your personally identifiable information um auditing and compliance loyalty programs
um real estate transactions um real estate transactions we actually spoke about this last week when we spoke about
uh real world assets um voting um i kind of snicker inside when it comes to voting because we all know how much fun that is
um health care data which i already spoke about like with uh pii um credential verification
uh legal food and safety traceability so um think of when something transpires and
uh anywhere along the um manufacturing line or the actual uh transport line or um anywhere along
the um supply chain uh as such if something's gone wrong you know immediately you know exactly where
it started you can trace it back you can actually see um and stop any kind of spread uh media and
entertainment entertainment iot uh charity or and or aid distribution um manufacturing insurance and i could
probably go on with a 300 others but i am going to take a pause to uh let anybody else add some value uh dave
anything you want to say about that
i mean i think you did list about a hundred things and i think that really speaks to the
importance of what we're doing so um yeah definitely excited to get into the real world
use cases and some real examples um yeah but let's do that why don't we get um i would love to hear
from let's start off with amir actually would love to hear from amir amir's feedback um
amir you know i i think you're i think you're up here speaking yeah you are um you know you and i love
throwing ideas around we love throwing stuff against the wall seeing what sticks and then challenging all of
it so let's see what are your thoughts thanks for thanks for having me up here guys and i'll try to keep
it okay i'll try to keep it brief um you know the the unit team is awesome and i i know kind of what
they're doing fits right into this too but um ryan you kind of sound like our conversations now so
whatever's whatever's happening is is good um but as far as you know as far as enterprise and
enterprise adoption um that's that's where i come from right that's that's been my background and where
i spent most of my most of my life these days um in in the financial space and in small medium and
large organizations and really what it comes down to is why would we want to make a change right what
is what is blockchain solve and i think that um short of an identity crisis i think we've all seen
like a million articles that say you know we're just trying to solve we're trying to we've got a
solution looking for a problem and i think that's true um in some respects but also um there's also an
opportunity right and i'm a big fan so so my background again being more from the finance
space is i like the concept of unbanking yourself and if nothing else comes out of blockchain i'd like
to see that um you know at birth we have a digital id that can't be tampered with right i mean you can
take my finger off but you still need my eyeball and i hope you don't try to take that so you know you
got you got this amazing potential out there and you've got a lot of projects that are building web
3 right we we want this web 3 experience but um don't necessarily know what that means right and
when you get into it you quickly realize well let me see your browser is that a web 2 or a web 3 browser
let me see your phone is that a web 2 or web 3 phone and so i think i think we need to meet people
where they're at right now and and not worry about uh necessarily achieving you know uh a future state
where you've got companies like what are they meta now um spending billions of dollars on a metaverse
that like 50 people use and those 50 people are probably all um you know friends of uh uh zuckerberg so
you you want to be very careful going down that path and um just just like what uh you know i i've
talked about this before and and certainly anytime i stream i'll mention something like this is i like
coding on pact and that's why i'm here i see that it can do a lot of things and there's more things
that are coming out like the web off end that i i shared with you earlier ryan um that ties everything
i'm working on together so you could have uh you know you could have a very seamless user experience
and user experience is so important um but we're not there yet we're not there yet so let's let's meet
where we're at and right now web 2 works good um but we can also layer in a wallet now where you're
still you're still doing everything through your your signature your your your private key your public
key um that's how we're validating you but you can have a web 2 experience and we can we can do
things to make that feel natural and i think once we hit that threshold where we've got you know l2s
zks different technology and there's there's other things in there too right that are that are being
worked on i think once you can start mending all those and merging all those i think you're
you're 18 you're you're 15 85 right now 15 percent makes sense in web 3 85 makes sense of web 2 and it
shows in all of our apps right we've got web front ends that are web 2 it is what it is so let's admit
where we're at and so now how do we get to 50 50 like that's that's a that's an attainable goal but
we need some we need some changes and we need some different thought process and i think
you can take um you know like a i i still think finances is one of the ripest things for this the
costs in the finance world you would not believe what these companies spend on just securing assets
that literally can be solved with your own private key done it's the amount of money the billions
hundreds of billions of dollars in regulatory stuff in in just different asset classes and everything they
do can be simplified into a digital identity and if you have that digital identity you secure it
you back it with a massive blockchain you have a mix of private and public because we can't let all
that data come out right you can you can kind of blend those worlds together where now you're getting
closer to a 50 50 split um and honestly you anybody solves that and it's game over for traditional
technology i mean once finance solves it everybody else is going to follow because that's where the
money's going to go and and unfortunately that's where everybody goes is where the money is and so
um for the most part right um but that's my that's kind of my take on it and kind of where we're at
where we're going i have a million use cases ryan you covered most of them um i want to hear from
the unit guys personally i don't want to yap up here the whole time but um that's kind of how you know
my unfiltered thoughts are and i'm just excited to see um i'm excited to be along for the journey so
that's kind of where i'm at today yeah i always appreciate you amir um i know that you and i in
many cases think quite alike but it's good to hear your take for sure you said two things that are
very important and hopefully everybody caught on to that because that this is actually this is
definitely alpha around web 2 and web 3 one is right now it is quite important if we want to see
um web 2 be successful moving into web 3 world that the actual interface the actual ui the actual
experience somewhat represents or mimics what we're used to in web 2. it is the greatest way to break down
that barrier to entry because if we throw too much at people too fast it becomes too complicated and it is
much easier to say forget it i'm not going to use it as opposed to hey that looks quite similar to
what i've done before it's quite intuitive um i'm going to use that and the work that goes into
obfuscating the complexities of web 3 and transacting in web 3 and the concept of signing a transaction
and why you do that and where there may be gas fees and why they why they're there is
it is very important for us from an end user perspective to hide as much of that as possible
not hide it in a nefarious manner hide it as in simplify the interface and the experience for users
that's that's that to me is is one of the most critical things to solve the second thing that you
said oh sir go ahead i was just going to say and this is something that we talk about on a very
regular basis and and the best example of what you're talking about ryan is and to amir's point
the financial industry so when you swipe a credit card nobody knows you know very few of us know the
transactions that happen behind the scenes you just know that you tap your card or you swipe your card
and the transaction is completed and so i think in web 3 we when we first started there was this push
to get people to understand that interface that web 3 interface but now we've you know switched that
to saying well we need to mimic what we see in the web 2 world because of the simplicity and because
people don't need to see what's under the hood as you said you know like people turn on computers every
day and don't know how they work but they trust them and they use them people drive cars every
day and they don't know how they work but they drive them and they trust them and it's the same
thing with web 3 and it's great to have these conversations and reinforce that thinking because
the more people that get on board with that the more projects that take that attitude the faster
we're going to see that mass adoption and the faster we're going to see that transition from web 2 to web 3
yeah a hundred percent there's also this concept because i wanted to highlight this because it
sounded quite similar to what amir was saying the whole concept of crawl walk run and if we throw all
of this at web 2 and we say well in order for an application or an organization to move into a web 3 world
you have to take on everything as it is we will fail and that's why there's there's going to be an
i love that i think um i think the stats you used amir and i don't know if they're legit or if you made
them up on the spot but they sounded damn good is somewhere around you know 15 is going to be
web 3 side 85 roughly will still maintain as a web 2 look feel touch perspective until we're ready to
slowly migrate across to as much as we can into web 3 and uh one of the things you said as well
is quite similar to what i say about gaming and i i think at some point we should probably dive into
gaming on a different space altogether and i do want to i'll take 30 more seconds and then i want
to move on to the unity um and that is uh gaming doesn't need blockchain but blockchain needs gaming
and i think it's in a similar manner that web 3 needs web 2 which as in to onboard all these
organizations and um applications and use case and whatever else but right now we're trying to
solidify the true core use cases that are valuable for web 2 to actually come to web 3 and we're seeing
them uh it's a no-brainer we're seeing them already we've seen what the likes of uh amazon google um ebay
um who else is there uh what black what blackrock's doing uh what we're seeing with the real estate
organizations what jp morgan's doing um all these big name uh what uh l'oreal uh louis vuitton uh tiffany
all these organizations that are actually looking at leveraging the blockchain uh same as nike and
adidas and some of the others um they're finding their niche they're finding their use case they're
finding the value of how they do this now the whole organization hasn't moved to web 3 but there are
components that absolutely make sense and provide value and an experience for their end users that they
couldn't otherwise do without um how about handing over to the team from unit uh we have pecca we have
jossi um i don't know if anybody else from in the team joined but uh welcome to the stage thank you ryan
good morning good afternoon and good evening everybody so this is becca from unit i'm talking from helsinki
finland and uh it's like uh half past seven in the evening already so it's been dark couple of hours
but i'm all sunshine being able to talk with you guys today i love that and always a pleasure to hear
from you uh pecca um great to have you here we love what you're building on cadena and uh the floor is
yours feel free to share your experience and knowledge around web 2 and how it translates to web 3.
so yeah so so maybe i'll start uh with a thing that you said earlier so you touched a good point
when you said that not everything belongs to blockchain and uh just like amir said uh sometimes
many blockchain projects seems to seem to be like uh like solutions looking from the for the problem
uh and uh and uh and uh this is the uh situation in a way that that um um um there is a sort of like a
middle ground that that um we need to embrace the possibilities that blockchain offers the decentralization
offers but also understand that that it's not um going to be a situation where you can you can put
everything there so maybe there is a a middle ground where there will be like uh uh solutions and
services that are sort of like uh sufficiently decentralized uh the thing that we in units are
particularly interested in is is sort of like a breaking a bit the current platform economy
so so so we are in a situation in web 2 just like you said where where users have basically read and write
um rights but not really ownership rights so the platforms are exploiting uh the creators they are
are taking most of their sort of like income of of other people's internet intellectual property uh
like selling advertising to stuff that they haven't themselves done and also they are exploiting the
users by monetizing the users identities and uh social graph and uh and and uh uh you know interaction
uh and uh you know interaction history so so uh so uh there is sort of a lot of promise in a way that
that uh creators can take ownership of their um creations and uh users can take ownership of their identities
and their social graph and their digital property and and this is the big promise to me from blockchain um
so so so we are in a in a sort of like a transitional phase where we are only starting to understand the
possibilities that decentralization and tokenization and blockchain offers and uh and uh as like it's been
mentioned so many times that that we are you know on the take just taken the first few steps uh towards the
the future yeah well well said i have a follow-up question um and it's more of a i guess a
controversial tongue-in-cheek question do you believe that web2 the majority of web2 care about decentralization
i mean legitimately like like do you think that they feel that decentralization is that important to them
um um i think that that uh as a concept probably not but when the utility becomes more clear
then i think that we will be seeing a a lot of like migration to sort of like uh sufficiently decentralized
uh systems as you mentioned those some of those brands already that are you know um flirting with
digital ownership of uh of uh you know premium brands so you can sort of like uh live the brand in your
digital uh identity and life so to speak also uh those are those and and as mentioned also uh like
the enterprise solutions where the blockchain is a maybe a intermediary between different organization
that is really a solution that they need and i think that uh that uh uh uh my dear colleague jussi
had a good example with with uh airlines there maybe maybe i could like hand and their um microphone to him
to maybe elaborate more on this would love that um i think we we've probably brought this up on a couple of the spaces so we'd love to get this take because
airlines airline ticketing airline loyalty and royalty programs are just prime for a use case of
leveraging web3 so um you see over to you well thank you thank you ryan uh thanks for having me and also
i just wanted to say i i think you you mentioned that you had a good weekend and and you had your dancing shoes
and all that sort of thing but i think you forgot to mention the most important things from saturday
um uh what's happened over the weekend i think you're from south africa right i yes i did i did not
mention that um but yes proud holders of the rugby world cup trophy in an incredible match against
um new zealand it was epic anybody that got to watch it thank you for supporting um it was an
absolutely incredible match a fight to the end with a one point difference uh to win so yes thank you for
mentioning that there was also another huge thing yesterday which was the formula one because i'm a big
formula one fan and i'm a big maximus steppen fan so it was a great weekend let's just say from a
sporting entertainment and life perspective the weekend was fabulous great great so so we we we need
to sort of like keep up the the the pace and positivity over there over there sort of like yeah there was a
week as well uh absolutely with that so but but you know i think but beck uh you know we spoke about
we've been speaking a lot about the sort of like you know the enterprise and the the whole concept of
you know when we talk about web3 i'm i'm using it as sort of broadly term as well like a decentralization
as well and and and and especially coming from a from a more sort of a corporate and enterprise
background and and one of the critical things at least from a from a business this is not necessarily
the consumers normal people consumers don't really care about that that much uh businesses more so but
it is all these um the the the risk of of of like you know effectively your single vendor lock-in
which is which is something that a decentralization enabled facilitated through blockchain uh through
its organization through through through identity and so forth is and the example like for instance from
the airline are these sort of cases in the past when when when people's action has unintended
consequences like for instance in the ticketing side there are a couple of sort of big ticketing
softwares but one of them for instance is what is called amadeus um uh which was which is effectively
the the the the the the mutual common ticketing platform that if you go to a lot of airlines part of
that and and you get a you get a ticket from from san francisco to to you know wherever you want to go to
south africa uh to celebrate the rugby world cup by a stopover in london you probably end up with
the different airlines on there so how is that possible and that is through the you know platforms
like amadeus that make that possible effectively the airlines can you can go and and buy a i don't
know american airlines flight that uses ba uh flies american airlines and ba as well and that might
go through amadeus something maybe i'm giving a wrong example and then a part of that platform but anyway
so how can you do that it's sort of like you know selling somebody else's stock and that's through
through through through ticketing platforms like that the problem is is that it was like companies
like that for like airlines problem is that they set these things up or have set them up only to find
that a you know 10 years 15 20 years whatever down the line those that kind of a service provider
becomes bigger than the individual airlines and actually their fees become a material part of your whole
ticket price on that but what can you do because effectively you create a platform you've created
a you have a single vendor locking you have a platform a middleman who controls everything in
there so there again the the promise and what drives a lot of enterprises going into into blockchain
is the view that you can effectively we can by decentralizing mean that we can automate the
processes i can sell your inventory you can sell my inventory without me giving you basically you
know the keys to my house without me giving you you know full access or something that you know we we
can control control all of that uh uh algorithmically uh uh through software rather than through through
a service provider which then enables that you know we don't end up creating a problem for us in the
future but then also enables that kind of a you know businesses separate businesses organizations can
collaborate and grow in a much deeper level than possible um um you know without having some
monopoly in between so that those are you know incredible opportunities um and maybe just sort of like
you know very recently um um um uh you know industries looking to exploit them yeah very valuable very valid points i mean we
saw a couple months ago what lufthansa's already embarked on doing with uh the airline uh rewards and loyalty
programs um i think one of the things that you were touching on or at least talking about is where i see a lot of
value coming in airlines and that's going to be the ability to easily transfer or um sell
an unused or um unavailable to use ticket as such so we'll probably also see the birth of these
um i haven't used amadeus uh but i think we'll probably see the birth of these marketplaces where
you'll be able to uh buy other people's tickets um it becomes very complex though because you need
to set uh pricing thresholds so people aren't just gouging and keeping people off airlines and also
of course there's a security side of it where you have to uh kyc and validate exactly who you are because
you know exactly what will happen with uh flights otherwise but you you can't really do that in a web2
manner um leveraging blockchain and whatever else makes this a lot easier especially the ownership
side exactly and i bet that you have used amadeus but you haven't seen that it's the airlines that
you bought the tickets with but i guarantee you have bought and i'm not sort of like you know amadeus
great company i'm sure what they're doing great but i i bet that you have in your careers you know
paid them thousands and thousands of of dollars as part of the airline fees that you've been flying
around and all that sort of thing that happens in the background um uh which which is a kind of kind
of like you know that could have you know you know maybe some of that money could have could have you
know gotten you another you know you know another beer on the flight or something like that which you
don't get any anymore so so so that you know there could be benefit for consumers as well yeah exactly
right and then there's the other side too which is what if what if i can't travel what if i it happened
to me it literally happened to me uh the night before i was supposed to take my kids to on a trip
to mexico and i tested positive for covert and the worst thing is not only could we not go but the tickets
are tied to your name so even when they give you a travel credit i can't then take my kids credits and
combine them back to me um they're tied to their names and that's that's just a complete lock-in
whereas if we actually leverage a lot of this technology we can quite easily uh invoke uh
transfer of these flights or selling of these flights or hey i may have decided last minute you
know what i can't make it this is going to be painful i'm going to sell my flights at a 20 or 25 discount
um and we can't do that today yeah thanks thank you so much for the uh for the example and the use
case uh you'll see you really really appreciate the input um anything else you want to add because i do
want to get to peter from crank as well uh i know he'll have some great um insight for us no no absolutely
so thanks thanks for the time and i'm sure that we know we're just sort of like you know we're beginning
to scratch surfaces and as time goes on more and more opportunities and ideas come come to light
i'm sure oh absolutely i mean um i hate using the term early days but it really is we're still
literally uncovering those use cases that make sense it's not like amir said it's not like um we have
the blockchain and now we're trying to find uses for it and so we shouldn't be forcing web2 or web2
companies to use the blockchain we should find we should be pushing to find the value that they will
get out of using the blockchain um yeah but thank you thank you um pekka and you'll see uh love you
guys love what you're building with units and i look forward to some great insight moving forward uh peter
from crank um thank you good good and thank you for uh giving me the chance to listen to you guys
talking and yeah very interesting subject uh i mean i'm i'm a very practical person and uh love doing
and trying and then my background is also in um um large-scale enterprise uh business applications
and i think uh we are not thinking big enough and uh i think that uh uh a lot of a lot of areas
are you know they they do need that they do have those they do have a lot of challenges and then they
do have a lot of issues and then for uh in my my mind at least um blockchain and cadena is uh pretty much
or could be pretty much the solution for a for a lot of those uh problems and uh yeah i mean you you
mentioned a huge set of uh possible use cases and uh i think i think of uh the blockchain and uh cadena in
particular to be like a uh financial operating system and uh as i said i i've spent most of my
life working in working with enterprise business applications and uh yeah i mean it it in my mind
it could be a paradigm shift um that i i know that you want to stand into uh with your invention with your
new product you want to stand into a an existing uh value chain but uh uh i see a lot of opportunities
uh not just in the financial space but also you know logistics and and all of the uh execution part
business execution part one of the things is that uh i mean they yeah there are there are a lot of
issues and uh uh keeping keeping a large-scale enterprise application going takes an enormous
amount of work and then it costs it costs a whole lot it costs a lot so um any uh and in any any uh case
in any in any um um uh application uh when there are multiple companies involved
uh then proving who's right proving who's right proving who's wrong um and then uh proving whose
data is correct is a challenge and then that could be uh easily solved uh by the blockchain
and uh coming back to the idea of why i see it as a financial uh operating system is uh uh you know you
have all all your um enterprise applications and uh um and but that that could be consumer facing as well
so um um you have all those uh um applications and uh uh it's a it's a it's always a challenge uh to to
have uh uh you know um um you have to to to provide both sides with a picture that is provable that is
independently verifiable and uh i think there's there's huge value there and uh that that that can
that can easily bring um extra value from the web 2.0 or uh you know the um current way of uh of
enterprise applications and then um um um there there are uh in the in the enterprise applications
there there's there's all these uh um all these processes going on transactions getting executed
but they they um one thing is the financial part like automated settlement is through a lot of
interfaces and again uh the the the um the flow of data is so long and then there are so many
participants external vendors uh internal departments who are responsible for certain parts of the data
and then uh shifting it over to more of an identity-based uh um validation of uh of transactions and uh sort of
you know um making it a nature to to have that data independently verifiable even within the enterprise
but another another department etc etc so um that's where i see one of the uh one of the opportunities
and of course you know um on banking kind of thing like uh if if there's a an opportunity to to tie
uh settlements to these automated rules which which would uh in most cases happen uh mostly without
um you know uh human uh human interaction they would would go through uh interfaces anyway that
those interfaces and and logic acts um uh based on based on existing rules so taking it one step further and
then actually executing the settlement uh based on those rules is probably uh again a huge added value so
yeah this is how uh pretty much and and i wanted to mention that um you know um uh the blockchain itself
is not all in my mind not all blockchains would be um would be very well would be a good fit
to go into these spaces but cadena i think it is very well positioned to go into this space thanks
appreciate it peter that is some great insight uh love your take thank you for uh stepping up and uh
helping us out with some insight alpha input and experience behind this um you mentioned two very very
valuable use cases which i wholeheartedly 100 agree and that is one um unquestionably verifiable so
this transaction took place or this product was purchased this product was moved uh this asset was moved
this asset was sold whatever it may be whatever the actual transaction may be it is undeniable this
happened we can prove it on the blockchain love that that's the whole immutability immutability play
the other side was around automated actions that are triggered on either a timed event or an actionable
event and this is exactly where the smarts of smart contracts come into play and we actually spoke about
this quite a bit i think it was last week around real world assets we've spoken about it prior as well
but the whole thing where you think about no longer needing an intermediary or
some kind of verifier verifying party to say yes these actions have taken place now transfer asset or
make a payment or make a payment or if this is a will it's distribute funds whatever or a trust or whatever
else it is all written into the code it can all be triggered by either an event or by a time
situation and you cannot argue it it's uh code is law in this case so leveraging the smarts of blockchain
or web2 actions and web2 activities is um a complete game changer because you cannot do that in web2 world
so thank you really appreciate that uh insight and input um i'm going to hand over to dave because i know
we're coming to the top of the hour but um yeah over to you dave
yeah i mean i again i say this almost every week but i wish we had more time um because these are
fascinating conversations um these are important topics to discuss um and it's really affirming and
exciting to be a part of these conversations so you know thanks guys uh peter from crank pekka
uc uh from unit thanks for taking the time to hang out with us today and give us your perspective
um i think as we all do the transition from web 2 to web 3 and the you know the infrastructure
how it looks how it feels the the potential the you know the applications um are in essence what we're
all you know working towards um and so and it's really good to hear you know um other people say that
cadena is the the chain that's going to make it happen i know that ryan and i truly believe
that and so you know confirmation bias it's uh it's a good thing sometimes i love it um yeah
and you know what i heard and ryan i'm disappointed that you didn't say this because you know what i
heard several times um don't trust verify yeah you know all i can say is i feel like the messaging is
getting out there because you know how much i love saying that don't trust verify so i mean you know
you've got me saying it all the time now so that's great um but yeah it is actually the version is uh
my version is trust but verify that's the kgb version of it but uh no this is how i built crank
right it would not work without trust but it's a trust but verify sorry guys just wanted to mention
that oh that's great but it is time to wrap it up um and i was i did miss something at the very
beginning for all of you that have stuck through to the end i was supposed to mention the zealy code
because of course we have a code related to today um that is live now on our zealy quest so the code
for today is gm gm gm all lowercase um six letters gm three times um cool so again thanks everybody for
joining thank you ryan for for again being a magnificent wonderful and gracious uh co-host um your
knowledge is is very much appreciated and i i i'm here to do like the technical start and the
finish and the reviews and the news but i really enjoy listening to these and learning myself it's
amazing so i appreciate uh you ryan again pekka you see peter thank you for taking the time everybody
else thanks for taking an hour out of your day to come listen to us we do this every monday um and we
may switch days coming up there's a little a little hint but that's not going to happen for
a couple of weeks if it happens so we will be back here um very soon um with the next coffee with
cadena thank you very much we will see you again before you wrap it up dave uh don't forget thank
you amir oh amir i wasn't gonna let him live it down don't you worry you you know what amir amir
is like the third co-host because this is the third time in a row that we've had him up here
and i i you know i would vote to make him a permanent co-host as well and that's it's you're just so
ubiquitous in my life amir it's i'm sorry for taking you for granted i will never do that again
i didn't take a pass thank you oh good thank you everybody have an incredible week uh let's start
off strong let's end off strong and uh look forward to the next space awesome thanks guys have a good
one thanks everyone thank you thank you everyone have a nice day
