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Kuru Live - CLOB Wars
Recorded: June 11, 2025 Duration: 1:30:51Space Recording
Short Summary
In a lively discussion, crypto enthusiasts explored the implications of recent developments such as the China-America trade deal, the potential for new token launches, and the impact of regulatory changes on the market. With optimism surrounding the future of stablecoins and innovative projects like Pump Fund, the conversation highlighted trends indicating growth and evolving dynamics in the crypto landscape.
Full Transcription
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ใ Thank you. I know somewhere, do I wanna go?
You should have a good food, girl Seems I ain't right to live here
But he'll get to be created
What you have, lady
She must use a smile
For his nostalgia 10
Never come and hear what he wanted to say
Only to realize
Never really want to see
What a best in this life
What a best in this life Oh, she rises to her poverty.
Anybody else would surely know.
There's much in her pain.
Oh, baby.
Can't see
You're gonna breathe
Don't you breathe in the way
I'm gonna see
Don't you breathe
There's no way that I can breathe Oh I was a person who I was someday slow
But she will return
She will have a place for years like me
You will never bring your way
She rises to your apology I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait Oh, you It's the reason to wait, I wish you were in the park, and I can't hold you to the beach,
I can't hold you to the beach, I can't hold to start the day, it is Wednesday, 9.34 a.m. Eastern Standard Time. Cozy Maximus here, guys. What's up a better time to be able to catch more people so thanks so much for tuning in guys we're glad that
you're here see some uh see some ogs in the chat here we got zane we got daniel listening in along
with a bunch of great crew libear sapphire chaos walker yes yes we're here k KB's with me. KB, oh no, you're feeling sick. How are you doing, KB? You're too sick with it.
Hey guys. Yeah, um, you know, a little under the weather. I'm trying though. I'm here.
You are here. You are here, KB, and it's okay. I'm juiced up. I'm ready to go. I've got a lot of, I've got energy. I'm feeling good.
I'm feeling good.
I thought I would feel better by today.
I thought I would feel better by today.
See, colds are funky.
Like, the...
And also, maybe this is...
I think this might be karma for KB saying that I always get sick when I got a cold a few weeks ago.
And kicked it in a day or two.
Because I'm built different.
Do you know why I got sick?
Okay.
Do you know why?
From Shakira?
Okay. So, I'm...? From Shakira? No. Okay.
So, no.
Shakira was fine.
You know, I have family in Miami.
My grandmother, I went to go see her.
My cousin lives with my grandmother.
My cousin has five children.
Five.
Yep.
Yep.
Twins.
He has, like, six-month-old twins and a two-year-old and like a five-year-old
and then like two like little older ones like that is why like i was around babies
maybe you should have just never gone to florida that was a bad choice i mean i live in florida
oh well there's no saving you but i was around children babies my mom was like here like let me
hold the babies and like the twins are fine because they're like six months six months old
but the two-year-old that's where the problem lies he had snot everywhere he He was dirty. My mom's like, here, here.
He was trying to force him to give me a kiss.
I'm like, mother, don't make a child kiss a stranger.
Just get this thing away from me.
Don't touch me.
That is why.
That's just, KB, that's just every day.
That's just called having kids.
Yeah, and I don't have them. Yeah, that's just every day. That's just called having kids. Like, yeah, I mean.
Yeah, and I don't have them.
Yeah, but it's worth it.
It's so worth it.
This coal isn't worth it.
Well, these are the people who, they will inherit the earth.
These are the people who will bid your Bitcoin someday.
I only ever hear men telling me that kids are worth it.
And I don't think you're a trustworthy source on
this um i think we should make all children illegal and just like no more kids you know
an insane take i couldn't disagree more but uh i would fight to the death on this issue
that's not what we're here for though but that's a that's a hot take i will say
no i think kids are good i just don't want to touch them.
Fine, KB, don't support me on this.
I was trying to make us a new society
where there are no young people.
But then what happens?
That's a short-lived society.
No, then we really focus up
on extending the life
of the people already living.
I think if we really focused on it,
we could just be good with the amount of people already born. No, the people already living you know i think if we really focused on it we could we could just be
good with the amount of people already born no the people would be miserable i would live no no no i
totally disagree people kids are literally like the joy of life like they're the reason for they're
like i think like one of the primary reasons for living is to have kids it's a great oh man it's
so good i love kids they're the best they do make you sick. That is for sure.
I hear you.
I hear you.
And I want you to know you are heard.
Right on, right on.
Well, I think philosophical debates aside about the future of our planet, man, it's
still, it's a bullish morning. There's just a lot of good news.
That's why I'm juiced up. I'm feeling good. Yeah, we got a China-America trade deal
yesterday, which is big. Oh yeah, we've got some awesome speakers coming up.
We've got Daniel. We've got Zane. Zane's giving me thumbs down right now. Nick Lachey is coming up. Vercru is up here. This is, wow, this is a stacked lineup
that we got going on right now. But yes, China, America, trade deal. Sounds like things are
quieting down on the tariff trade war side. We're a week out of Crash Out the crash out Thursday, baby. Six, nine.
Can you believe that?
Was that six?
No, no, no.
Six, nine was just a few days ago.
That would have been crazy if crash that there was six, nine.
I think yesterday was a full moon.
I think that might be right.
So maybe people were a little bit on edge.
But I think it's today.
Is it today?
Is today a full moon?
OK, maybe then watch out.
But big day.
And then this morning, dovish CPI prints.
Seems like inflation is cooling.
I would be surprised if we now I'm going to say this and I'm going to I'm going to delete
this space if it doesn't happen.
But I think we go higher today.
Like, I think we might punch new Bitcoin all time highs today.
I would not be surprised.
We are just like rolling in good news.
The market is bullish. We're not getting austerity. They're not going to cut the budget.
Elon is gone. Dude, we could be going. This could be... It's Joyful June, baby.
JoyfulJune.exe is 100% loading. If you're not following D.J.N. Ping, he is actually on a
clairvoyant streak right now. He is just calling these moves like crazy. It's a fun time. Life is just better when Ethereum, when people
are bullposting Ethereum to $3,000 and that's like an achievement for them. I love it. We love the
ETH bros. And Bitcoin is sitting in like the high 100s, well, high single digit 100s, could push higher.
Altcoins are showing some life.
We'll see where things go.
ICO, IPO window is potentially open.
We'll talk about this later.
Man, I'm juiced up.
But we got some great speakers.
Let's say hi to the crew.
Zane, Zane, what were the thumbs down, man?
What's going on?
Yeah, I'm just salty about Ethereum.
Oh, fair.
Fair.
Why are you salty about Ethereum?
Because you solved it at the bottom?
No, not really, like, sold at the bottom.
I think it's more or less because it's been...
How do I want to, like, put this? Ethereum's been, how do I put this?
Ethereum has been failing, at least from a price point of view, for a really, really long time.
And then every time it goes up, historically for the last two years now, the market always dumps.
So I still have this residual kind of PTSD where I'm hoping that it's, isn't the one like trying to, you know, lead the market together.
It's usually much more held there when it's like Bitcoin leading.
Yeah. I mean, totally fair. And like,
I think we all have PTSD from like anyone over the last few.
Oh man, my Zim was just going, okay. All right. We're good. We're good.
Okay. I have a, yeah, we all have PTSD. Anytime people start posting, like, people, like,
apologize for longing ETH now. They're like, it's like the new checking Zillow is like that people
are, like, longing ETH, that they're, like, just bullish on ETH. But Zane, ETH used to lead the
mark, it used to lead the alt rallies. It used to be like the good times are coming when ETH would outperform.
But you're right.
We've had so many fake outs.
And as soon as ETH shows strength, the market just totally dies.
This time could be different.
Maybe.
I don't know.
I want to believe, though.
I want to believe.
I'm like Mulder from X-Files, man.
I always want to believe.
So we'll see where things go from here.
But we're having fun.
Daniel, what's up, brother?
How are we doing?
The Vibe Curator.
Hey, what up?
I'm doing good.
How are you?
I'm doing good, man.
I'm doing good.
The club wars have begun.
We're chilling.
Bullish morning.
I'm feeling good, man.
What more could you want them to be working for a club right now?
Although, we're tuning into a club space right now.
Yeah, I'm just like going to be a full club vibe creator for now.
So true.
Club Maxis.
Yep, right on.
Club Maxis.
Yeah.
I mean, there are a lot of DeFi that are building
club as well. I knew
some of them.
But yeah, despite that,
there are a lot of
things going on.
But since I
am a
Kuro Maxi since day one,
I feel like
our decks is still the best for them well true and i think that the
interesting thing is that like we are kind of in this like liminal space as kuru where
i think we can on one hand just being a part of monad we can root for all of the different
d5 projects including clods that are launching on monad just at a base level. But then even beyond that, most of them, I don't know of any.
OK, there's Crystal that I don't know if I think they might be spot only as a Clob dex.
So that's interesting. LFJ may as well only be spot.
I don't know if they're introducing perps. They may very well be similar lane as us.
Competition is good. But then most of the other Clobs, I think, are generally perps, they may very well be similar lane as us competition is good.
But then most of the other clubs, I think, are generally perp stacks, right, which is kind of
like a different game. And they might have some spot components and stuff to it. But I wouldn't
be surprised if they're not really like the way that we're thinking about it is that like, if they
flourish, then Kuru can flourish right alongside them. So the fact that we're kind of like spot not introducing leverage, and those guys are going
to try to compete with like some of the big dogs is a good thing. And there's a real differentiator
with Monad to where, you know, having like this decentralized playing field building on a general
purpose chain, but that is optimized to scale the EVM and bring these clubs to a place where it's not, you know, opinionated or it's not kind of like operating
in a way where you're like curating for the club to be able to be the most successful.
There are trade-offs there that you're going to undertake, but I still think that there's a real
roadmap for clubs to be successful. So all that's just to say that we can still wish the best and be
rooting for, you know, purple. We can be rooting for, um, for a composite for any, for Drake, for
all of these different exchanges, um, and probably hopefully end up working together, um, in the long
run for Mana to be as successful as it can be from a, from a DeFi perspective. So we're in a good
spot. Um, I could just be able to, yeah, hope for the
best because the more good assets that exist, the more defy activity that exists on Monad,
which is what we're shooting for is just going to be great for everyone in the long run, I think.
And it's a big pie for all of us to, um, be able to eat from. And like I said, competition,
it is good. It'll bring out the best in all of us. I hope so. Yeah, it'll be fun.
It'll bring out the best in all of us, I hope.
So, yeah, it'll be fun.
Claw wars, baby.
We've got โ oh, whoa, I didn't mean to mute everyone.
Nick Lachey just hit me with the thumbs down.
Nick Lachey, how are you doing, brother?
Good, good.
I think it's more like Highlander.
There can only be one.
So I think we can play nice until we see what happens with liquidity.
But I just want to go back to the kid thing.
So were you saying that you're very fond of minors?
Is that what you were saying?
No, quite the opposite.
Wow, wow.
I mean, look, I've worked with kids for a lot of my career.
I don't think that's creepy at all. I have two kids. I love kids. I'm not I mean, I'm no Peter Schiff. I'm not ready to I'm not ready to crash out and put out the apology tweet. That's for sure. I've. Yeah, I'm just a regular. I'm just a regular dad. What can I say? I love kids.
kids
this is recorded right yeah yeah for sure i have literally like zero i have zero compunction about
this i have no there's nothing uh you cannot twist this i'm i'm fine it's so cute actually
sometimes we're in meetings he'll like have a little one and she's like crying but she's cute wow what it's a good thing no no that
is that is a good thing the yes yes no i'm i'm with it kids are the kids are great the the
financial market whatever we don't we won't go we won't go into it but that is fair nick it is
kind of like a it is kind of like the time to um it is kind of like the time to play nice. We'll have to see where liquidity and everything plays out. There is going to come a time where, yeah, we're going to be in it to win. And I think we're in it to win right now. But I still think that we can kind of root for each other in that way. But you're right. It's going to be, I don't know about a zero-sum game, but kind of. It's going to be a race for sure.
So there will be some competition there. That's definitely true.
Hey, Sophie.
Do any of the other clubs have club monsters, though?
Because if they're not giving me a little doodle, dude, with accessories. I'm really not that interested.
Right? There's something for everyone at Kuro.
Yeah.
You only got Club Monster and Kuro.
I mean, I'm...
Wait, can we get versions
of the Club Monster, like the little
boo-boo things? The little boo-boos that
everyone's putting on their purses? Like little
plushy keychains
for your Club Monster monster because i'd be
rocking it i feel like that i think it's going to be copyright though even if you just make it
like it doesn't need to be called labubu kuru it could just be like a little keychain thing
so that we bring around we can make it we make it cool again you know yeah that would be a good idea i kind of i kind of like that we could maybe we'll mock something
up i like it i don't even know what a luvuvu is i'm so dude i'm so out of the loop it's crazy
i've seen the medium coin that's literally all that i know that i've learned it's like the new
stanley cup but for i'm pretty sure like the alpha is dropping on tiktok you know and that
that everybody thinks it's a dead brain platform but it is where i find out what the kids are up to
yeah yeah real yeah actually i used to i used to hate uh tiktok previously but i'm like
to become fond of it yeah no i think there's a real like the fact that mirad mirad has like
totally revived spx 6900 by like just schizo actually not schizo he's like just bull posting
tiktok and it's like the meme is totally recovered and the chart looks like incredible right now
is like actually kind of like i don't want to say concerning because it's probably a
good thing, but like he is just totally leveraging the, yeah, I don't know, brain rot or whatever you
want to call it, or maybe a more optimistic picture of what TikTok could be. I don't think,
I mean, I feel like X or Twitter is like one step removed from TikTok, but like, I don't really feel
like we can be on like a high horse about like
how brain rot tiktok is when we're like literally like terminally online on x so we've kind of like
throwing stones from glass houses in that way so yeah but the boo boo hey we're learning new things
or i just i pinned it to the top of the boo boo oh okay what about like a club kids
line?
Shut up, Nick.
Should I become the Luka Nets of Kuru?
Should I just like really, maybe like I
launch some dropshipping courses and then
I just kind of get after
it. I purchase a large
NFT IP.
Club Monsters? Maybe. No. nfp ip claw monsters maybe
no all right we won't do that okay that's good that's good directionality look i'm just throwing
things at the wall and seeing what sticks that's all this is here what can i say um
good good man did you guys see the aura pump oh Oh, okay, this is a little boo-boo. Oh, what the frick?
Wait, has any crypto project tried to roll out by
infiltrating the minds of
16 to 20
year old women?
I just want to see
women doing their Get Ready With Me
videos and talking about what coins
they're trading on TikTok.
I feel like that would be bullish.
That could work.
We need to sponsor a few baby influencers.
Nessie, we need someone like Alex
Earl though.
I keep saying I want to see Alex
Earl do a
conversation in crypto.
Yeah, that's who we need.
Call her crypto daddy.
We can start the Twitter campaign.
I'm like imagining one of those like,
kind of like the, like, trad wife things
where they're like whispering as like a voiceover or whatever.
And they're like, then I prepped my sourdough starter.
And then I went and checked on my shit coin bags.
That would be so bullish for me.
Like, I would see that and I'd be like you know what this is the time that's the the like you
know when david portnoy started tweeting about crypto and like all the boys were like yeah yeah
yeah no i don't think anybody was like yeah i think everybody was like mortified when that
was happening i don't know it's the only time i've ever been profitable on a meme coin was the first
five hours of port nor
well that's i mean i think that i mean there's definitely opportunity there it was just like
it was died pretty pretty fast but yeah like that like ticker bow like ballerina farms or something
like that that really that really might go hard that might be kind of insane that would go so
hard you get you get one coin included with your first bag of protein powder?
Yeah.
It's like every time you can get a ref link on your sourdough starter,
and you're passively farmed.
It's like sourdough to earn, and every loaf that you get,
you're earning dough coin. Wait, that's amazing you get, you're like earning like dough coin.
That's amazing.
That's product market fit right there.
Damn.
That is truly like chief eye.
Like that could really, that might have legs.
That's kind of insane.
I feel like a man could not found that company though.
It would have to be from the right source.
I'm in.
I'm bullish on sour on, um, sourdough.
So yeah. So if he's ready to angel invest, if you're, who's building this, I don't know. That's,
that's crazy. I love it. Good. Good. 9 54. We're chilling. Okay. Good, good, good. The,
okay. Interesting week. Interesting week. Good morning. Let's check. Okay. I'm going to look 54 we're chilling okay good good good the okay interesting week interesting week good morning
let's check okay i'm gonna look at coin gecko i'm gonna see we just got the market open we're kind
of chilling bitcoin 109 609 eth chilling just under 2800 hype is on a tear baby 42.78 for
hyperliquid it is really establishing itself as like a behemoth.
When Nick says that there is one that is like a battle for liquidity, like hype, dude, that's a,
that's a behemoth, man. They're really, they're getting after it. Like they,
they are winning right now, like 100%. Literally it is like a take notes situation to,
yeah, just like look at what like an awesome rollout, both of like an airdrop
and tokenomics distribution looks like, but also just from the way that they're executing. I do
think that there are questions still about like decentralization and like their roadmap and where
that's going to go and everything, but the market clearly does not care. So it's kind of wild,
man. And I feel like it is a part of Monad's job.
And I think that Kuru is a part of this, of trying to show the importance of retaining that decentralization and everything.
But you can't take anything away from what Hyperliquid is doing right now because they're killing it, man.
It's kind of wild.
Yeah.
So let's go back in time just a little bit here.
We've had some interesting stablecoin news over the last week, right?
So we had the Circle IPO, which I think went live on Thursday of last week.
What a day Thursday was.
We dropped the big bomb from Elon.
We got some crash outs from Peter Schiff, from Selkis.
It was a crazy day, man.
But yeah, Circle is trading at 107 dollars
right now i really feel like it's kind of hard so it launched at 31 dollars i believe
weren't you bearish on circle last week i still i remain bearish you You remain, wow. Yes. Oh, for sure. For sure.
I mean.
The bearish, wait, you're bearish on circle and you're bullish on pump fun.
Let's go back to that.
These are all.
He's for real.
I don't know if I would say I'm bullish on pump fun, but I think that like in terms of like the relative valuations and everything i think that buying i would rather buy pump fun at four billion fdv than circle at like 22 billion or
like whatever it's trading at right now i think that's crazy you guys don't think that but i don't
i would rather show circle to a normie than pump fun sure sure i mean i think that's fine i'm just
talking about in terms of
like the asymmetric bet upside like i'm not going to buy either but uh but i think that circle
is frothy right now like i think it's benefiting from a lot of like stable coin speculation and
everything and it is a high float low or it's a low float high fdv shitter right now like that
but it's just it's trading on the
stock market. Like people are in a frenzy for stable coin exposure. I don't blame them. I don't
think that Circle per se is a bad business. I just think that they're in a position where they're
totally reliant on Coinbase for distribution. Maybe not totally, but they're quite reliant
on Coinbase for distribution. And so that would make me nervous if a lot of their profit and revenue is going to Coinbase.
Like this is just what I would say.
If you're bullish circle,
I just think that probably buying Coinbase stock
is like a better bet on the ecosystem,
at least theoretically,
than buying circle is long-term.
But it's going to take something on the order of like six months
for a lot of the unlocks to start to come.
And there'll be a lot more of the supply trading and i think that that'll be a way to
see like what the actual demand what the actual price of circle is going to be for the long haul
but i mean look like if you bought the ipo like hey hats off like you killed it like that's
and i'm sure that the circle team is probably like looking for the closest like distributor
of rope because that's like a tough loss to like say they sold some of their liquidity
to get out i think around that ipo price of like 31 and that trade-off cost them i mean what like
uh three three and a half x or something like that so kind of ridiculous man um but but yeah okay go ahead yeah i was just
curious like if you know you're you're against uh coinbase like talking about how their revenue is
and all of that what's kind of like the rationale for um you know pump fund to be able to like
sustain their revenue over time well so pump fund owns pump on
owns the stack so pump fund is not making nearly as much off of their bonding costs and everything
but if you factor in their pump swap revenue they are still printing money like they are still
really doing quite well and pump fund has made what seven or eight hundred million dollars over
the last year do i think that's going to continue at that pace?
Probably not.
But if you take it still at a conservative level, one, they're making a lot more money than Circle is right now.
They could easily, over the next year, I think, at least make the same amount as Circle Circle and have spikes with interest in the trenches.
Like, I don't think that the Solana trenches are going away. I think that Solana price is actually
going to be impacted by Pump Fund because how would you contribute Pump Fund's success to Solana's
bullish price action? Like, I think it's probably made up on the order of like 75 to 90 percent of that growth and
rise.
And if you could just get exposure to pump fun instead of exposure to Solana, would you
do that?
Yes.
Do I think that four billion is like a crazy FTV when, again, they've generated more money
than just about anyone in the last year?
They could be one of the fastest companies
ever, maybe the fastest company ever to generate a billion dollars in revenue, which is just crazy,
dude. And if you can get access to that at something on the order of like four, four and a
half, five times like the revenue that you generated, I think that's a good bet to take
when they're going to raise a billion dollars and try to stake a claim on the streaming market and everything.
So you kind of have like the you have like the token launching and the pump swap decks model, which seems like a great business, at least even if it doesn't print as much money as it has.
And you have like the asymmetric upside of like live streaming and everything as a bet that you can take.
of like live streaming and everything as a bet that you can take. Whereas with like Circle,
I think that it's going to be really hard for them in the long run to carve out a larger share
of market of the market when they have Tether. That's like just going to be destroying, I think,
with like Plasma and with Stable and with some of these other things that are coming.
Yeah, I agree though. I think how I'm just looking at it is because the only thing that probably
makes the pump token attractive, at least to me, is if they're sharing
like revenue with holders or something, not maybe in a direct way, but like
indirectly, like do we hype those, for example, where they do like buybacks and
all, but I just don't have like i don't have that
confidence that you know um they're going to like share revenue with me as a holder so like what's
in it for me holding pump fun but if i'm looking at like say cool you know i can be like confident
that um what's it called usdc uh although it's kind of like in a steep, what's it called, like, mode right now, yeah, but they're still, like, it has its place, basically, yeah, and they've literally generated sustainable revenue, like, over a long period of time, so you just have much more security, let me put it down, you have much more security, at least in my eyes, yeah, as a cycle, as a cycle over there than you would as a pump holder.
Because what if, you know, if there is no revenue share with pump, it's just like
at best another governance token or something like that.
So like what's kind of like the value in it, especially if you're buying it at
that high evaluation, like say 4 billion, for example, everyone cites revenue, pump is generating revenue and all of that to
kind of like justify the valuation. But what makes valuation justifiable with respect to revenue is
if this revenue is being kind of like allocated allocated to the value of the like company itself
so but in this case in this like in this uh context that's not the case so i don't really
know but i guess we just have to like wait and uh like see you know uh what's um what's called like
this economics is going to be like what plans they actually have for value accrual for the token before it then makes sense, at least on my part, if it's a good bet or not.
Well, so these are rumors, right?
So like the Pump team has not commented on any of this,
but the rumor is that they're going to share 25% of revenues
with the holders of the token.
So I think that there definitely is like a roadmap for that.
I feel like if you're launching a DeFi token in this new world and you're not at least seriously considering or
planning to share revenue in the ways that you can as we wait for a market structure bill and
all these things, which we still need for regulatory clarity and everything. I think that
that's where the pump fund stuff is going to come. But let's just say that pump fund didn't,
right? Like that they didn't, right?
Like that they didn't share revenue.
I think that they will probably.
I think that would be crazy not to.
I think that they're reading the room.
But Uniswap is valued at an FTV of like 3.8 billion right now.
Last I checked, that was like a week ago.
I think that Uniswap and pump fund are definitely like equally like, look, I know we don't like to do comparisons and everything,
but like PumpFun definitely is at like a similar level of like mindshare exposure.
I don't know how much money Uniswap is making, but I feel like they're definitely comparable.
And with Uniswap, you have no overhang of like a potential expansion into a real consumer product.
like a potential expansion into a real consumer product. Like they've kind of, I don't want to
shit on Uniswap too much, but like Unichain, UniWallet, they have not succeeded in building
that vertical stack. And Pump has in terms of owning the user from the launchpad perspective,
turning it into a DEX that is again, printing money for them and the live streaming, which I
think I look, I don't again,
I'm staying on this. I sound super bullish. I'm not going to probably even if I had access to it
by the pump on ICO, I'm not going to expose I'm not going to own pump on token. I'm just talking
about this purely in terms of like pump on versus circle. And I think that circle is in a precarious
place because circle is not just like a, these, these stable coins printing
a ton, a ton of money is really a function. Like they are at risk of if interest rates go down,
their business will be hurt by that. Right. These are like net income margin, like businesses where
like they rely on them being able to collect money off of treasury fees. And if say like Scott
Beston becomes like the Fed chair or something
like that next year, or even just like a Trump aligned Fed chair, I think even in the short term
with like a dovish CPI print today, we could be looking at rate cuts. And that's going to directly
hurt the stablecoin market. Again, it's not going to kill them. It's not going to hurt them. But I
think that Circle is 100% the beta to Tether. Tether is like a monster in a
good way. They're a good actor for the crypto space, but they've won. They're not going to
lose their market share, I don't think, especially if something like the Genius Act comes into place
and they're able to maybe have a path to either have more of a presence in the US or just continue to dominate the
stablecoin market globally. I think that Plasma is a killer. Like, I mean, it literally sold out
the Plasma ICO sold out in six blocks. This is just, there's just crazy stablecoin demand. So
I don't blame people for speculating on Circle, but like the, like Pump Fund, I think will easily
fill a billion dollar ICO.
Like investors will be like falling over themselves to take that bet and to allocate in that way.
And I don't think that it's crazy to think that if even they got some traction and were able to deploy the billion well to be able to bring in more consumer users, they've already shown that they can do it.
So, yeah, I don't know, man.
I think that's that's just kind of my that's just kind of my read on things.
Nicholas J., what do you think about this? What would you rather buy right now? What would you
rather own, Pump or Circle? You don't have to buy either, but where would you go?
For how long?
Oh, man. Give me your thoughts. I don't know.
Forever. Forever.
I mean, I don't own either of those things forever.
Yeah, for sure.
I think IPOs
and what
PubFund will do really operate
on different timelines.
So I think from a
pump perspective, you're going to probably try to get
in and out of that trade.
I don't think
ICOs, at least the ones that aren't kind of obvious home
runs maybe like i don't think anyone's like oh let me hold this for years no one's doing that
so for the pump on piece i think the val currently is fine but there's also a ton of risk of holding
that later so you can probably make a good trade off of that. But it wouldn't make sense, right, to hold it
longer term. Whereas
I think something like Circle,
it could still do like the
Coinbase curve, right? So if people remember when
Coinbase IPO'd,
right, it got to like, what, $100 billion
kind of
in cap and then it hit like the
$450s, then it went down.
So I think for IPOsos like if you don't get
in an initial you want to wait a few weeks and kind of see how it plays out and settles
um and then decide on sort of like what the catalysts are if you think that there's stuff
long term but in my opinion like for the ipo was either get in early um and then take the multiple
or take the percentage gain and then get out and then
think about re-entry.
But I think for pump, there is no re-entry.
If you do the ICO, you kind of just get out and say, cool, I made a good trade.
I just don't know why you would hold something like that, which has like tons of risk, unless
you have like insider crime information. So yeah, but like, I don't think,
do I think circle is gonna become like the next monstrous thing?
Like, like a top top white company,
like from a stock or like evaluation perspective, I don't,
I just don't see it.
And so I think it'll be fine. And I think the people
who have bought an IPO will still be fine. But I just think like getting in now doesn't make
a ton of sense. Probably best to wait a few weeks. And then if you think about the period we're in
now, like the IPOs in the last, what, six months, all the emerging technology IPOs have done well.
what six months all the emerging technology IPOs have done well and
usually what that means is that it's it's the right time for the market for
that product but at some point in time it won't be and that's why I still think
like stuff for circle other IPOs coming up I think the long-term ones are the
ones that you actually believe have like a
product offering that's unique, that's viable or has like dominant share.
To me, Circle doesn't fit all those.
But yeah, that's my take.
But I think Pump Fund's a fine like trade if you can get in and get out,
but we'll see what that is.
But I think the good part is like in all these things, it's really hard for people from the you can get in and get out but we'll see what that is but i think the good part
is like in all these things it's really hard for people from the uk to get in and i think that's
really important to continue to keep that sector of the world out um from you know being
participating in any of these things so i think as long as that keeps up it makes sense
this tweet is not intended for uk audiences
but the euros are down bad right now
yeah happy happy happy why don't we bring happy up here cozy can you bring happy up here
and then make me a coho um we should bring Happy up here because I need to hear his rebuttal
because that was some strong words there.
I also invited G-Van,
but he's not here.
All right, KB, you're a co-host.
I did just send Happy an invite,
but it's up to him now.
I mean, Happy Obstacle, I'm the fan of the UK.
Oh, shit, here he is.
He's like, hey mate, hey mate.
Welcome, Happy.
I'm pretty sure because you just like
mentioned that in public with British people
in the audience, you actually can go to jail
in the UK for two years.
So like the crime has already been committed.
Yeah, Nick, it's over for you,
bruv.
You know, all I know
is we were once under the tyranny
of the British Empire, and we've escaped that
as a country, so, you know,
it's all upside from here.
Yeah.
Happy, I love, dude, Happy, you're one of my favorite uh you're one of my favorite tweeters bro you're awesome poster i'm glad you're up on the space with this man i'll forgive you for being
british um happy i happy i if i remember right you're pretty bullish on plasma is that right
like maybe you could just take us through your thoughts on the ICO and what they're building.
I did a little bit of research myself, but if you don't mind sharing, we'd love to hear more.
Yeah, so I think the logic on Plasma
is this is really the first time that anyone's had
an opportunity to really get exposure to
Tether in any way um as you mentioned
earlier right tether really is the the company of stable coins and i circle and usdc obviously
has had some success but tether is literally like three times the size has huge market share all
across asia and africa and most of the world and i think the thing people generally miss about stable coins is the target audience
isn't actually americans or europeans right it's like the rest of the world and i think this space
is very heavily dominated by americans and europeans and i think we very much see things
through the lens of how we view the world which is we have stable banking we have financial products
through the lens of how we view the world,
which is we have stable banking,
we have financial products,
we can buy access to the stock market,
we can kind of do what we want.
We're sure that when we put our dollars
into our bank account,
we're not gonna get robbed by the bank
or the government's not gonna seize our money.
And if you live in like 70% of the world,
that's not the case.
And you've never had access to that level of to do it before.
And I think what Teva in particular understands is that that is the target market for stable
coins and that's really what we're going after.
Plasma as a chain is trying to facilitate that because at the moment a lot of that leakage
is going to Tron and Tron is like making a ton of money.
They make more money than pipe liquid just in terms of like transaction and whatnot um i think if you can reduce that down to three or close to three then the the volume goes up
magnitude right the volume 10x is and i think then there is a real chance of actually having
a us dollar denominated product proliferating across the world and actually really onboarding
the entire world for the first time and that's kind of why
i see plasma as like a good use case i think they're not trying to target um the market
as i mentioned i was not trying to target the unis they're not trying to target europe and
there was a talk that paolo gave at token 2049 where he said when mika laws came in in europe
and they decided to pull out of europe because the rules are too stringent.
I think of their 140 billion they have on chain, only 6 billion left, right? Like losing
the entire European market basically made next to no difference there to their share.
I think, yeah, we see all the hype now about all these companies starting stablecoin projects,
but they're all focused on the same thing, right? And that's the US market. And there
you're trying to compete with Stripe, you're trying to compete with PayPal, you're
trying to compete with the banking sector, you're trying to compete with JP Morgan or
the banks. Whereas like if you go to like Africa or Asia or South America, for example,
then literally half of people don't have bank accounts. And if you can provide them with
that service, especially in economies that are growing, you can actually almost skip
that entire banking sector growth rate and go directly to crypto and to Web3.
So I think the market plasma is after is interesting to me because it's not really anybody else targeting that, apart from Tron, but Tron is like a centralized chain.
And it's very expensive, I think to send transaction on Tron, China can be like dollars at a time just to send money.
So if I've been able to have a chain that is free or close to free,
but also offers Bitcoin stability as well, I think it's quite an interesting thing.
And that's kind of why I've been quite bullish on it.
Yeah, as Nick said, British means unfortunately, I can't participate in the sale.
But if I was allowed to, I would have gone very heavily on it.
Because I do think it's an interesting project.
Yeah, right on.
So for people that don't know what Plasma is building is essentially a and hopefully I don't butcher this.
I think they're kind of being called like stable chains.
Right. So it's essentially an L1 that's being put forth to be optimized for stablecoin swaps, transfers, all of this.
I think that Plasma is trying to do this with no fees.
So I don't think you'll even pay gas to move stables on Plasma.
And the thought process is that this will bootstrap kind of like a stable coin global network that is akin to, you know, something
like a Venmo or like a wire transfer system or whatever it is, but built out as its own chain
where you can preferentially like be opinionated that like this is a place for stable coins to
proliferate and that it'll take stable coins in their use cases for payments to the next level.
Stablecoins for remittances, right? Sending money from America to other parts of the world
for free or near free to be able to do this. If there are no fees, you could even have things like
AI agents or integrations into Web2 businesses where to do like a query or something like that,
say on chat GPT or whatever it is,
there could be stable coins that are passing back and forth
and you're like paying fees and stuff like that
and you don't even experience it.
It can all be like abstracted away
and it can be very like cost efficient
and just kind of like brought to the next level in that way
that maybe a general
purpose chain couldn't handle. Like you'll have to see if that, how that plays out with, you know,
like a Monad being built or how that will play on ETH. Like ETH still has like a crazy amount
of stable coins, even though it's more expensive and on the slower side, just because of the orders
of magnitude of security and decentralization that it provides. So Plasma,
yeah, tons of bullishness, tons of excitement for it. I wonder, like, Happy, how do you think about,
because there's Plasma, but then there, which is backed by, like, Bitfinex, and I think, like,
Tether, generally, like, I think that they're investing in it and bullish in it, and Paolo
has talked about them. There's also Stable, which i think is trying to do the same thing and it's also backed by bitfinex it seems like the plasma team is just executing
like really well and has good marketing like trillions is such a good tagline and everything
do you see stable as just kind of like another shot on goal that they're trying to take towards
this goal to just kind of seed different potential opportunities to win this use case or i don't know like do you have
any read on on that and what they're building yeah so i think the core differences are i think
if you're diphthanex or your usdt your strategy is probably well the more chains that embrace us
and try to proliferate usdt across the ecosystem the better so they're probably incentivized to
at least be involved with or try and back as many legit teams as possible
right but i think the main difference i've seen and again i haven't done too much research on
on stable so i'm not can't speak definitively but i think the core differences are with plasma is
that i think paolo is investor whereas he's an advisor with um stable so it's like a different
relationship and i think if you look at the integrations already, the
puzzles and I was like, do you seem to be quite far ahead? Like are they new yesterday?
I think it's quite big.
And the fact that they've also got founders fund involved,
Kobe, obviously from the same.
But also the team seems to be very strategically ahead.
So like the same, our cell, the state was moved directly from there into our way way on plasma so anybody who's doing it already is getting yield on our base and also the other
integration where it's a bit different is it's also a bitcoin sidechain so they do post all
transaction proofs back onto the bitcoin blockchain and there will be a native bitcoin bridge as well
and i think ethos of the team is kind of stablecoins after spending, whereas the Bitcoin element
is for the savings aspect.
If you could kind of like predict ahead a little bit, I think their main strategy is
going to be to try and essentially have like a savings and spending account for the entire
world, right?
Where you save in Bitcoin, maybe you store it in Arve, and then you borrow against it
for your stables, or you purely just hold US dollars on the chain and use that for spending like a like a checking account would be um so i think
yeah i don't know too much about stable but my experience with the plasma team is they seem to be
strategically very strong and everything they've shown so far i think is like they're clearly
thinking ahead of what the next steps are and it impressed me quite a lot so yeah that's my take on on them yeah i think oh good work yeah i think i definitely are very happy
uh because i've um tried to like talk with um some on the team as well and the the difference for me
is the fact that they are being intentional about how they want to go to markets. If you look at like the average, like crypto startup that's trying to
produce paper coins, they just want to like probably target people they think
have the money, right? And people that actually, you know, need this product.
So, you know, there's just like better adoption rates with the latter here,
because you know that there's people that have this particular problem and then you're just like providing the solution for them. So, you know, someone who has a problem who finds a solution is more likely to adopt something than someone who doesn't necessarily have that problem, but you're providing the solution for. Because if you look at it now in like US or like literally all
the like best world countries yeah there are a lot of solutions there that would make stablecoins
like solutions not so attractive because instead of for the average person it's kind of like instead
of holding like my regular dollar why should I need to like hold, you know, a stable coin,
for example, where you know, for like people in emerging markets like iPhone from Nigeria.
So for like someone like me, for example, I think this this type of thing, it's going
to like much more easier for me to, you know, adopt its stable coins, for example, USDT,
which is like war is majorly used here.
We adopt it simply because it provides this kind of like hedge here against, you know, all the crazy inflation.
Yeah, because I for one do not like I don't spend NERA.
Like I never hold NERA except when I need to like buy something like, oh, I want to like spend a particular amount for this week.
So I just like convert why hold in USDT to NERA.
So for people like that, you see there's kind of like a clear
pain points for us to adopt this thing.
So I think Plasma being super intentional about this and then making sure they're
going through the decentralization routes.
I think that's really super important as well because in as much as you say,
you want to provide solutions, what's it called?
Tron is literally already there.
So you have to make sure that you are much better than who is already provided a solution.
I think that is really their edge uh compared to like their counterparties yeah right on i yeah i think that's a great point zane i'm curious it's funny i have
some friends from nigeria they live in joss um but uh but i wonder like how what is like this how
many nigerians are like you like what is the saturation rate of utilizing, say, like a stable
coin or like USDT? Like, do your friends do that? Do people that what is kind of like, do you feel
like that has a lot of room to grow for more people to adopt this in like the case of Nigeria?
Because I do hear this use case thrown around and it makes sense to me. I just wonder, like,
how many people have already started doing it versus like the tam like the kind of like number of people that could still
adopt this like as a way to preserve their wealth yeah um i think um nigeria has like the most
population of youths in the world uh between 18 to 35 we have like over 200 million people which is
like super insane so that means there is a ready-made market here.
So it's more or less about kind of like providing the structure to be as attractive as possible.
I think literally a lot of my friends that are not even into crypto, like they do not trade crypto.
The only thing they use in crypto is Bitcoin and USDT.
And why do they use these things just as a sort of like exposure against um what's it called uh all of this
nera whatever because today you could buy something like say one thousand there tomorrow you're going
to the same thing to the market you're hearing is 1500 right there do you get but you know when
when you hold like um uh usd for example you you're basically pegged to the dollar because what affects our inflation here is the fact that our currency is falling compared to the dollar.
So when you're not exposed to that freefall by holding error, USDT is attractive.
And to get dollars, like actual dollars, it's very, very difficult here.
So it's not really, really accessible.
You have to do a lot of like back and forth and back and all.
So, you know, that idea of, oh, I don't necessarily have to like go to the bank.
I could just like open a Binance account um put my nera in there for example
although now i think nera has been like banned on that sadly but yeah um you know it's kind of like
you could just get your um usdc like put it there and then you you're basically hedged against um
all of that inflation i think there is still huge uh room for uh for uh adoption here because there's kind of like a lot of people
like you know all of this merchants people that sell stuff I think I was
looking at a picture and different Bolivia or something where you know you
have merchants like selling stuff and quoting their price in like USDT I think
a lot of them was it called they could be a lot of room, in my opinion, if all these builders
that are building on stablecoins that want to offer stablecoin solutions. Nigeria is probably
the smartest market to try to target because there is a high density of youth and then
there is this high inflation rate, like
literally all the good sides of what you would want in terms of like numbers, what's it called?
Like how much like crypto exposure, like grassroots level people have and then combined
with the fact that they have this problem.
So it just means that there's this like perfect market.
It's just about like building solutions.
I think beyond just holding USDT, it's more or less about like interactive solutions.
Like, oh, say there's an app where I could like just do anything I want, you know,
basically like just read out the banks here, useless.
Like that's just kind of like the thing.
Like if you can read out all these banks here useless i think there is going to be more real adoption yeah than you know you would get
with like literally any products because you have millions of actual real people we're talking about
oh someone who has like uh one person like running scripts of like thousands of wallets or millions
of wallet but like actual real real people that know, utilizing these things for you, you know, just like, uh,
Lagos, you know, you probably have like 5 million youths within the age of like
18 to 35, bro, 5 million real people, bring them on chain.
Like that's already more like than any other, any other like,
Hipsaw product has done.
So, you know, it's, I think you just have to be like intentional about it that, oh, this is what I want.
Okay. This is the problem. And then this is what I'm solving for.
And I think most of the time when I like have these conversations, especially with like Natalia, he's always like filling me with this confidence.
You know, when you hear when people talk, you have this confidence that, oh, these guys know what they are doing. And, you know, it's not just about like knowing what you're doing alone, but knowing how you want to like do it.
So, you know, they already have an idea of this problem and then they understand like what this problem is and how they want to like solve this problem.
So I really think Nigeria, in my opinion, is probably like the smartest market to target in the world right now. And especially countries like in deep South America that has very high population density
that are huge, because there is higher, how do I put it?
It takes higher efforts for someone who is much more more older to like take to you know uh make that sheet someone who's
probably like 60 something he or she already even hates crypto first off so you know all these
solutions probably like super attractive to them but you know for for like the average youth are
more or less like receptive to the idea of like adopting all of these things so yeah i'm really
curious like i think over the next like two two three
years is going to be like super interesting at large yeah i think the majority world country
context right that happy mentioned and that zane you're mentioning as well i think the normal
number is that typically like um obviously they're still having more kids more families we talked
about the beginning of the show um cozy's big on kids. But I think a lot of majority of countries, when you get to more developed countries so i think there is like
that good part about a population and a lot of people cite that as also like hubs for future
development hubs development growth but i think the other side of that that's slow is that those
countries still don't really have good fiat off-ramps right so i think there's one thing
with stables and things like that where i think it's great and I'm bullish on Plasma and all that stuff because it's creating a system that is good for lots of people.
It allows kind of being pushed through,
it either has to be leveraged from a price point standpoint, but it also has to have a fiat op ramp that isn't like heavily taxed and or taken advantage of. And I think those are the pieces
regulatory wise that you want large organizations to handle. And I think that's why like tetherbacking
it and all this stuff is important because if you just had like really, really small stablecoin projects, in my personal opinion, they're going to need large influence, not just to start a project and build it smartly, but to work with governments, with providers, with banks.
Like, it sounds maybe different, but I do think like a lot of the stablecoin copycats
that are going to come out are just going to fail because they may have a cool product
and they're trying to copy the product.
But in reality, like you need more than just the product because eventually you're going
to have to build relationships that have off ramps and everything else with government.
So there's no way around that.
And I think that part is going to lag, but hopefully that gets done, you know, by the folks, you know, like Paulo and other folks that have a lot of cachet as it is. Nick could break this open or anyone else that's familiar with it. The way that Plasma went about
their ICO is kind of interesting in terms of the dynamics where there's sort of like this,
I don't want to call it a points program. It's sort of like vesting where you're both like
seeding liquidity for the network and then you'll like receive like a certain amount of like XPL
tokens that are going to come as a result of that
is anybody like familiar maybe he's happy or nick are you guys familiar with how the
raise went and could like break that open for us yeah so so no it's kind of like um a yield farm
but you're farming the right to buy the token uh essentially uh what everyone deems to be a federal. So you're
depositing your stablecoins and those deposits earn you points and then at the end of the period
that number of points you have means you are able to buy. So if you put in a hundred thousand dollars
for example, if the pool stays the same size right now and doesn't increase, at the end of the period, you'll be able to buy $10,000 worth of plasma tokens, $500 valuation.
Obviously, we're predicting that as time goes by, they're going to expand that pool.
So more money will come in and early users will get diluted somewhat.
But they have said they want to cap it a reasonable amount.
I think the reason they're doing this is because all of our posts at some point, it's just kind of hard to phrase it offending the entire world.
But I do think in crypto recently, there's been kind of like a squeezing of what I would call like the crypto middle class, where as we moved away from ICO and moved more into airdrops um people kind of unless you're a
vc or a kol it was kind of hard to get exposure to projects with reasonable size um and also there's
air drop farming which is great and people can get exposure that way um but there's no way of
guaranteeing in advance how much allocation you can get so by opening things like this up where
anybody can essentially deposit whatever size they want.
You do attract those kind of higher end players and maybe we'll put in 100,000, 500,000, a million at a time and give them real scheme in the game and real buy-in.
And I think if you can attract all those people, those are the people that bring liquidity and bring contacts and bring true, they bring more numbers to the chain right i
think that has been largely missing whereas before we were just going through vcs kols and then maybe
the end of it you got an airdrop if you if you're lucky and coming out to the public here really
lets people who have true conviction and stuff convict with the size they want to get in and
then hopefully they'll have more um more i guess getting again more alignment with the size they want to get in and then hopefully they'll have more um more i guess
skin in the game more alignment with the project long term so i think the way they did it's good
i wish us british people were allowed to get in because i probably full courted my my stable
coins into it as well but no a lot of respect for the team i think they made the right choice doing
it this way and even if you're a smaller player right i'd say a lot of hate on the timeline saying
that it's not for not for small players and i think it still is right you're a smaller player, right? I'd say a lot of hate on the timeline saying that it's not for smaller players.
And I think it still is, right?
You're still getting the same proportional allocation
of somebody with more wealth than you.
And if you look at the price predictions for it, right?
The fund evaluation circles, what?
20 billion now, and Tron's at 27 billion.
Like there's a good chance this comes out
and like, youx's right so
if you're putting in two thousand dollars and that's your entire net worth and again this isn't
financial advice don't listen to me i'm very stupid and if you're putting in yeah that money
and you're getting a 10 allocation and that allocation 10x's you've doubled your money right
that's a really good deal for basically anyone no matter what size you are and i do think this way of doing things will probably start with a new meta and a new trend
and i would just caution people not all deals will be as good and not all teams will be as
good as this so don't just like ape into whatever comes next but no everyone i think it's a it's
an interesting way of doing things happy what do you think is the worst stablecoin project you see right now?
What's the worst?
I think you're going to see tons of clones.
I think the ones that are going to be the worst don't exist yet.
You're going to see stuff raising that pretends to be something it's not.
It comes out a billion dollars and goes straight to zero.
So, yeah, I mean, if they do a British pound stablecoin,
probably don't buy that
because we'll probably arrest the founders and put them in jail.
Yeah.
I heard a rumor that you're gonna launch a stablecoin project,
but I don't know where that came from.
Do you know what the funny thing is?
The Plasma team's offices are in London
and like, they're sat there in London
banning people who are around him
i think this would be a good tick at first they were quiet
i'm gonna go down to the offices and like protest outside and have like a ban
i was speaking to berry and he was saying he's gonna like try and lobby
margil farage he's one of our like like more up and coming politicians to try and do a video
complaining about
British people being banned from stuff
I think the
interesting thing about the plasma piece
I think the execution was
good and I think if you
lived in the NFT era we prepared for
the maximum gas war
but it actually was
quite fine.
But I think that the interesting part that I want to see play out is sort of,
you know, they've mentioned that sort of your time locked, right?
So how much do you, the amount of time that you have it locked, right,
is going to be some sort of value add, right?
And I think that mechanism is going to be really interesting to play out,
like from an ICO perspective, because I think stuff like that is going to get heavily copied by others that come after to sort of tier in different areas.
So like when it first came out that it was a $250 million initial cap and there's going to be $50 million caps for individuals, we all kind of like poked fun at it.
caps right for individuals we all kind of like poke fun at it but i think when you kind of like
take a step back now with the time locks with how it sort of went it starts to make sense because
there is a incentive for getting early right we'll see what that multiplier curve looks like
is it like a linear one is it you know is it a different shaped curve but i think those kinds of
things are what are interesting to me and what i want to see how that plays out for future projects on Sonar.
Because I think those mechanisms are somewhat different.
And if it's successful, which it has been so far,
and we'll see what the next kind of tranche is and how high that cap is.
But I think that part's going to be fun.
And I think we saw a little bit of that with with some other projects in terms of their raises, right?
But it was more like earn it not by time, earn it by like grinding or like doing stuff.
But I think in this scenario, it's, yeah, you want to get in early, but if you don't, you can still get in.
But obviously there's some value lock.
So it still creates demand.
But at the same time um you're still gonna have
opportunities later so yeah i'm not happy i just think that mechanism is interesting to me and i'm
very very curious like how the actual curve looks or like um yeah what the actual benefits are for
time locked um if it's like much more heavy or if it's kind of much more light but yeah i predict they'll
probably cap about two billion just this purely on nothing yeah yeah and then i think what they'll
probably do if i'm gonna guess to stop the backlash because if you're a store depository end up with
like a dollar allocation you're probably going to be quite annoyed. They might do, and again, I have no instant information whatsoever, I'm just guessing.
I assume they might do an airdrop to anyone who did it. That's what I would do if I was there.
I mean, I think when I did like a hundred bonus tokens, no matter what size you did,
and then the small players are so happy as well. Because from a cost perspective,
it doesn't cost much to do that. There's only a thousand depositors. You're not giving away
a large percentage of supply. Because there is the KYC aspect, it doesn't cost much to do that. There's only a thousand depositors. You're not giving away a large percentage of supply.
Because there is the KYC aspect,
you're probably not going to get super heavily civil.
So that's probably what I would do if I was them.
The big depositors get a large allocation,
and the smaller ones also can get a bit more skin in the game.
And the distribution is good.
And I think the UK ban, obviously,
is the best part that I like about the whole thing.
I'm really for that.
And then on the American side,
I think it's interesting, right?
Because it will exclude a lot of people
because it is, obviously, you have to be accredited,
which has its own qualifications.
And then I think the 12-month thing doesn't matter.
It's probably, you and I talked about this, like beneficial for those people. They'll probably
end up doing better because they have to hold it. But yeah, I think in some contexts, it's a funny
irony because what Zane talked about was like Nigeria, another country context, majority world,
but kind of the people that it benefits the most kind of all have opportunities to entry and the
people like, I'm American, obviously, and the people like I'm American obviously but
the people that maybe the product is not necessarily as life-changing for to some degree
right because of the mechanisms we have or that yeah so I think it's it's great that's sort of
like there aren't there's a lot of opportunity right for the majority will to get in and to me the gas stuff was surprising I thought it would
be much worse so I think I came out of that kind of like very curious as to
yeah yeah but I was initially quite bearish on it 100% to you I thought it was gonna get
yeah by people I honestly thought you were gonna get like Selene and a bunch of like VCs or funds
coming in just like filling 100 hundred count gas and just getting
the entire allocation. I thought that happened.
That happened before Stargate and I made it like snipe the entire server.
Yeah.
A thousand people got in.
I thought it was like, I know people criticized it again.
They're like, oh, the average is like 400 K per person.
But like the median was about 30 K, which I thought was a much better distribution
than I was expecting.
I thought it was going to be like seven people.
Yeah I think it's just for more than I mean like people people like pay the high gas because
everyone expected that like people are going to like Gwe was going to be like super high
so everyone just like presets insanely high gas and ended up overpaying
yeah i mean interesting coming up here too today is that the senate in the u.s is going to vote on
the genius act which um would be stablecoin legislation that could pass. The things that
I've heard are that it sounds likely or possible that it could move through. I think it would still
need to go through the House, but the legislation sounds like there's optimism around it on both sides. My understanding is that it would not allow the stable coins to pass yield on to users.
So that would kind of like throw into question something like Coinbase's agreement with USDC where they're providing yield.
Although because that's like kind of like not actually like the interest on it,
it could be fine. I don't know. Maybe that's wrong. Nick Lachey just hit me with a thumbs
down. I'm not sure if it's because I'm wrong or if I'm or if it's just because it's a bad idea.
But yeah, I don't know if anybody wants to add more color on the on the Genius Act, but that
could be that could be moving forward today here. But we'll get some more color on the uh on the genius act but that could be that could be moving forward
today here but we'll get some more context on it if anybody wants to jump in
yeah so i i just think like the circle the usdc mechanism is so different
um and then the the us side the genius act like with like with any US legislation has a lot of reasons for it to go through that have nothing to do with what's listed sort of on the actual bill.
So I don't know. I'm always a little bit when you kind of read stuff in its entirety, I think you try to realize whether people are trying to get through with that.
through with that um so yeah i still think a lot of it for me is what we talked about before which
is just like we need off ramps and more direct usage of stables like across purchasing avenues
that are every day um and i think that kind of component is so huge. Like the U.S. passing something is great, obviously bullish for price and these kinds of things.
But I think what you need is adoption from a payments perspective, but also from a bank perspective.
And I think that's global.
So I think I'd be much more bullish as soon as we see that kind of context being very normal.
So in a lot of majority of countries, you can pay by QR code.
That's directly linked to your bank.
As soon as that becomes as ubiquitous that you can do that same action fully in stables,
I think that's when stuff has really shifted.
But yeah.
Nick, do you think stablecoin is becoming more i guess accepted politically and
just socially do you think we'll see like apple and meta like via whatsapp and those kind of
players start to see the opportunity here where they could actually take on the banking system
by offering these products built into their distribution networks like if you're whatsapp
for example in europe i, I think in America,
everyone uses iMessage, right?
But in Europe, literally everybody uses WhatsApp.
So if you built in a payment network in there using a stable coin, you
essentially instantly have like a payments network that could span the
majority of Europe, right?
So I wonder if this will green light that kind of activity.
Yeah. And I think there is a precedent light that kind of activity. Yeah.
And I think there is a precedent for that in Asia, right?
So if you go to China and different countries, there is a precedent for sort of these like
all in apps.
And obviously the currency and stuff are still running through banks, but I think they have
the infrastructure kind of on an app basis to handle that because you can do everything
you need to do in that.
So I think the difficulty with the US and other groups is that everything you're buying or doing
or subscribing to is a separate action on a separate app. I think what Asia has done
in an interesting way is to combine that on one place. And I think that's why I think those places
will probably be first versus places like the US or Europe, because when that's already all in one place,
I think it's a lot easier to then transition all of that into like a stable point process.
So yeah, I'm hopeful like that stuff will get through in terms of large conglomerates.
And there'll be rails for that. But in my personal opinion, I think we'll see in other
countries first. I don't think we'll see it sort of in like the West as much. I think we'll see in other countries first i don't think we'll see it sort of in like the west as much i think we'll see it maybe in the east first or the global south or
something like that because their infrastructure is designed that way to some degree it's interesting
as well because i've listened to you what podcast some vc podcasts the other day and they were saying the cool thing about having a
stablecoin network um is if you look at like financial rails throughout all of history
they've been kind of segregated based on their local environment so like the european system
doesn't link in with the american one right like the british banking system is different to the
american one if i want to send you some money in America, it's a lot more complicated than just
having you as a friend on the app
and sending you money, for example,
to get tons of details.
There's massive fees involved.
And if you did have like a proliferation of a chain
with a stable coin that anybody could just use,
you can essentially have the first time ever
that you've got like a global scale system that doesn't
have those like friction points in between and where the cost to send to somebody in Nigeria is
the same as me sending it to somebody sitting next to me in my house right that's that's kind
of a cool unlock i don't think we've really seen what effects that could have remember some even just in terms like everything right payments online
spending um because crypto whilst people spend money online there's still so few of us here um
I think if you can expand that out to like the majority of the world I do think there's a chance
you get things like digital collectibles running again NFTs coming back projects that kind of maybe
collectibles running again nfts coming back projects that kind of maybe worked for a bit
here but then died out doodles almost like those things can be explored again because now you do
have this scalable network that anybody in the world can can get involved with and before you
had a theory and where it cost i don't know four hundred dollars to buy an nft for example i'm
getting a thumbs down from no no just because of doodles just because of the dude i need us to run again
nick is 70 in dude right now uh no happy uh not to belabor this too much but i agree with you and
i think the closest thing we have now which i think think Coinbase, they're not Coinbase, Robben has been pushing, right? Robben has been pushing their new credit
card, right? And the primary benefits of that card, one, you have to be a gold member. So
you're already paying basically a yearly fee, whatever, it's like five bucks a month.
But in return, what you get is no foreign transactions, right?
No annual fee and a general percentage back on every purchase.
And I think that's the future for Rails to some degree, right?
I think the beauty of stable coins is that if you can find the same basic construct,
which is no foreign transaction fees, you can have some sort of yield on it right or some sort of
cashback aspect and you can leverage it around the world via a card or a different system like
to me that's that's the end game but yeah so i think it's sort of like trying to copy
what credit cards are the best ones and what they tell but pretty much transferring that sort of financial rail system
that is ubiquitous throughout the world into something that is um you know truly available
globally worldwide yeah and i think that's part of the reason why i do really like plasma as much
as i do i think when i first got into crypto like years and years ago um the message was always
about like banking the unbanked it was
about adding like the ability for anybody anywhere to have a store a value they could hold in their
pocket um the ability to transact cross borders with no with nobody who can stop you um and I
think somewhere along the way we've kind of forgotten a bit of that and that's not to say
the stuff we're doing now with like general purpose change is bad i think there's like loads of cool things like monad is doing and like hyperliquid's doing now
insulin is doing now but i do think like plasma excites me because it brings me back to that kind
of core original reason for why i found crypto so attractive the fact that like you can be some
farmer in some field somewhere and still have access to the same quality products as somebody in America or in the UK.
And I think that is an actual thing
you can kind of like walk around and be proud of.
Oftentimes, like when friends and family say,
what do you do?
And I say, crypto, you sometimes feel a bit like
you're selling drugs or something, right?
Like you're some sort of weird criminal person.
But if we can like genuinely like reduce the cost of payments or give access
to like stable currencies to like half the world then i do think we can like sit back and like
well actually crypto did do something good for the world after all and maybe that's just me coping a
little bit and trying to feel better about like with that like with that fts and make money but
now i do i do think like it is i think we'll look i think
honestly we'll look back on like this period in about 20 years and be like wow that actually was
good for the world and like we fought against like governments trying to restrict it and ban it
i think paulo in particular the founder of tether will be looked at in a very different light
to how he's looked at now because i do think actually the number of good Tether
will do for the world is actually kind of a number, really.
Yeah, I agree.
I think my own kind of like view for what I think would be the best
end state would be like not just Plasma,
but like what is going to be like build concept of Plasma itself.
I think teams like having smoot on and off-ramp i think
that's kind of like the biggest hoddle or um adoption here because there's a lot of people
that are still trapped like nera they are forced to hold an error it's not like they want to hold
nera but like they're first to hold it so you know if you can like uh give them an escape hatch
where you know they no longer have to be like forced to hold this thing
and then they can just like move sorry were you saying something i'm just gonna ask you a question
so when you say you're kind of forced to hold nera oh so no so say you go to a shop and you want to
buy something could you theoretically pay in usdt or do you have to have the local currency? Is there an option for that?
Nah, I think there is no option right now.
I think that's kind of like the biggest problem, you know, payments and then often
unwrapping, they've got like an app where you can just like do all of these things
smoothly, you have like NARA, you could easily like
come back to NARA to like USDT, you could easily come back to your USDT to like Nera and you could have like a card that allows you to spend
when you're holding USDT, but like maybe they take it away Nera, I don't know.
If there's a way to like, I think there is some, there's like a, what's it called?
I don't know if they are still like running now, but there's this project on Monad that did it.
Those DAO cards, yeah. They had this card that sent out to me.
So, you know, it's kind of like cool that i can just send um you know usdt
so like the wallets that represents this card and i could like just go to an atm here and actually
we draw out um there i have no idea how like it really works um on the back end but you know that
kind of experience it can be like
readily made available to like everyone i think it's going to be like really really cool because
you're not start having uh more people like not being trapped in like narrow but they are able to
spend like um without feeling like uh they are trapped or something
they are trapped or something.
We've probably got to wrap up here soon
because I do want to send us over to DeFi Act.
If anybody wants to tune in,
Abdul and the crew are going to be talking about InfoFi,
which is going to be an awesome space.
But yeah, I wonder, I mean, man,
this has been some good stablecoin talk over the last,
yeah, probably honest.
Yeah, also, Kozy, I don't know if you noticed, but I think we do have the community manager of Plasma here in the space, Scene.
Oh, that's terrific.
I did send an invite, Scene, if you want to come up and say hi and meet some of us.
But, yeah, that was cool.
Thanks for listening in.
Right on.
No, for sure.
Bullposting Plasma.
Yeah, Scene.
Definitely feel free to come up.
We're excited to, yeah, I've been talking about it and everything.
Yeah, scene.
Open invite.
I want, like, okay, Nick, you said, I agree with you that, like, you have to look at kind
of, like, the different motivations for, like, why legislation would pass. Do you think that there are like,
I don't know, of course, there are kind of probably like ulterior motives. But like,
what is your read on like the Genius Act? Is it is it more about like the potential to
be able to like control this? Do you think it's like to try to keep it? Because I feel like a
dynamic of this that we're not gonna have time to get into now, but it's like there was the rumor a few weeks back
that there is like a consortium of banks
like Wells Fargo, Chase, maybe JPM.
I don't know all of them
that were like looking into launching their own stable coin
is kind of like removing the yield bearing aspect
of stable coins,
like a play to be able to make it
like a more fair playing ground
for banks to be able to get in
so their lunches don't get eaten.
I don't know.
Do you have any like read there or like on why? Yeah, like on what you said earlier
and how it relates to genius? Yeah, I don't want to become like too cynical, but I think
being an American, so, you know, the lobby groups are all strong, regardless of what party or
affiliation you have, like they're dominating still. And I think if you read the bill, the first group that they say that benefits are consumers,
but the first group that actually benefits are financial institutions. So I think what you said
is my opinion. I think the bill is written in a way that it gives financial institutions kind of the most authority to enter a market that they right now don't have clarity in.
So even if you hear about the people talking about being debanked and all that stuff, and now it's like, it's all great.
Like crypto is fine.
It's actually not because for the banks, they don't wait on there being like no penalty.
They wait on the government and the lobby group saying it's now pushed as positive.
That's how the U.S. works.
So I think that's what it's kind of building towards for basically the traditional financial
institutions to gain from it.
That's sort of my cynical take on that.
But yeah, so that's why I do think like it's better that like the largest
stable projects like Plasma and others, right? They come from not that place, like not the
government side, etc. I just think that that's fraught because of how they're structured and
their incentivization, right? So I think this is where the ethos of what Happy said is,
yeah, maybe we see a piece of that.
After we've seen financial nihilism and all that stuff,
maybe we get to see a little bit of what it was supposed to be.
So yeah.
So genius feels great overall to some degree,
but yeah, I'm not kidding.
I don't think we should kid ourselves that it's primarily for us.
It's primarily for the banks.
Yeah, right on, right on.
Well, guys, very good crew lives.
One shout out to Nick and Happy,
also Zane, the whole crew for being here.
Guys, thank you for all of your contributions.
KB as well being here while she's sick,
even though she's hitting us with the thumbs down.
I'm just thumbs
downing, Nick. Oh, right on, right on. I'm just interpreting that as her agreeing that this is
all about the United Kingdom right now. We're just kind of giving our friends across this
piece some hate right now. I'm going to hit some thumbs down too right now. Why did we even,
okay, Nick, here's your bid. Why did we let the British keep their accent? I think we should take
that from them.
We should take the British accent.
That's like the coolest export of the United Kingdom right now is just how freaking cool they sound.
They just always sound smart, happy.
This is not okay, man.
We're taking this from you in the next decade.
I would vote for that.
That's all I've got left is my voice.
That's it.
Well, it does translate to the timeline you're a great
poster brother so i hope everybody goes from follows happy um stay tuned on what's going on
with uh with plasma and everything and i feel like now the really interesting thing is just like if
the ico ipo window is open we've got these pump fun rumors we've got got Plasma. Yeah, just like doing super well. Circle blasting off like
what's going to come. You've got like Gemini Exchange talking about IPO. And that's pretty
hilarious. We'll have to see what other companies that are going to come down the line. And yeah,
like protocols might be thinking like this is the time TGE. It really is. And so I feel like
what's just as exciting is like what we haven't seen
come out yet in terms of rumors and everything. And I hope that we can get back to that
optimistic future that stable coins can offer. Yeah, great use case for Kuru as well as we move
further into the cloud wars and everything. So guys, thanks so much for tuning in. Like I said,
if you want to jump in, go hop over to 0x underscore Abdul for the DeFi
app space that's going to be going on.
It's going to be awesome on InfoFi.
I'm actually really interested to hear what they have to say.
We're talking with some of the friends from Kaido and everything.
And yeah, otherwise, thanks for tuning in for a great morning edition of Kuru Live.
Yeah, we really appreciate you guys.
And yeah, hope you have a great rest of your week. Bullish from here. Ethereum and just last word for Zane. Ethereum is pumping. Ethereum is up like one and a half percent since we started this space. So we're getting after it. Let's see if let's see if this is if our PTSD is right here, but it'll be fun. Thanks so much for tuning in, guys.
Thank you, everyone, but Nick.
