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Kuru Live! - Loudio, PumpFun, Trump Wallet & More
Recorded: June 4, 2025 Duration: 1:33:21Space Recording
Full Transcription
Thank you. Hey, hey, good morning.
I don't have music today.
Okay, okay, that's okay. I don't have music today.
Okay, okay, that's okay. I can do it. Here we go. Okay. Are you playing anything?
Cozy? Það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er að það er a Thank you. Wait, can you hear it?
Whoa.
Can you hear me no whoa can you hear me i hear you i i just heard that last part like but it the whole time it's been silence now i can hear it oh yeah You left me here, but no These days are chances he plays All the planets swimming in my head
I've got the same ones playing in my bed
I don't want to see my head
You still come on
You still come on
It's up in my head There's not much I can I'm out. I know, I just don't know, I lost everything with the world feel
Because you're like a lot of love, don't want to hear me say
You talk so much, you talk so much
You're not mad now, like I was before
Cause somebody's only dancing, you know I do it for
But I don't want to do it for you anymore
I do, I'm bursting back
You still come on
You still come on you so I It's all in it, it's all right to go I can't be right, I'm not the one
I don't live my heart
There's not much I can do
You said you're first
Locked in my throat
It's all in my chest
I feel like I'm alone
I'm new to the ground
But I don't want you
Just a whole world Oh, yeah.
What's up, KB?
Wednesday morning, space, Kuru Live. We're back back. How you feeling? How's Wednesday morning treating you?
Yeah, you know, sleepy.
I wish that I was more of a morning person. I'm trying. My brain just doesn't function like afternoon, but I'm willing to try.
brain just doesn't function like afternoon but but I'm willing to try it's also been like so rainy
here like it has not it has not stopped raining for like three days half the island is flooded
um I can't even like walk my dog right now so yeah rainy day for us dang well that that's a bummer
it's super nice here where I'm at it's like like a beautiful day. It's getting up into the 80s, which is a little bit hot. I'm probably on the opposite. And I feel
like I've never really been a morning or an evening person. I always feel like I'm kind of like a...
You're just not a person.
Yeah, no, I'm just not a person. I've always said that I'm just like an eight to eight person.
Like I just do well during the middle of the day and like super early.
But when you have kids, you just become a morning person.
Like even if you're not a morning person, you just must be up.
So I'm just like awake, juiced up, happy to be here.
We'll bring the energy.
Yeah, this is just an experiment, guys.
We're just trying out Kuru Live in the mornings.
We did this for Mob the Club week, which was probably about a month ago. Wanted to see, we'll get feedback from you guys,
like whether you guys like the night spaces or the early morning spaces better. Yeah, so we'll
just try it out. And there's lots to talk about today. So we've got a lot on the agenda. It's not,
this is like one week where like sometimes we're kind of like struggling for like, oh,
what do we talk about?
There's plenty of stuff to talk about today, so I think we'll be carried through.
Glad to have our crew in the audience today.
Thanks for tuning in today, guys.
What's up, Daniel?
Oh, we got Chaos up here.
Chaos, how's it going, bro?
Yo, what's up?
What's up?
I was prepared for 3 a.m. my time space. So I'm kind of cooking right now,
so I will not speak very much.
Let's go.
Oh, you're cooking.
Okay, right on.
Okay, fair, fair.
What time is it for you now?
Now it's 4, 4 p.m.
Okay, nice.
You guys have like a whole day by the time I'm up.
Yeah, but like you informed me about the space uh 15 minutes
ago i wasn't prepared what are you cooking i'm very happy i'm cooking some meat like uh yeah
steak okay right on let's go all right i was wondering if it was gonna stay like some mystery
meat i was wondering if you knew what kind of meat it was so that's good stuff steak man come on that's good you got are you basing it right now are you getting a little
little butter action a little little time some herbs going on in there is it just kind of like
straight cook you grilling yeah mainly just straight cook you know like i just need food
i'm not like putting much time in it fair yeah like Yeah, like I like it. So that's what matters, right?
That's fair.
That's fair.
Give that steak some love all the same.
Yeah, you just give us some TLC and it'll be good.
Yeah, man.
KB, what a week.
There's a lot going on.
Lots of things that are fun.
I've got to say, I'm glad.
I don't know how I would feel tonight.
I'm glad that we didn't do the space last night.
Not that we ever do them on Tuesday evenings.
But I was also, I was just, my disposition was just rainy yesterday.
It was just a brutal day.
We're getting ready to move.
And so there's just a lot of like moving pieces and logistics and stuff going on in life.
And I was just kind of black filled yesterday.
I was just not feeling, not feeling life life but today I'm feeling much more hopeful I was predicting some crash outs for
myself on on especially one topic in particular literally just you know how sometimes you just
sleep and you just feel differently about life that's basically me right now like I just kind
of woke up and I was like I actually don't need to be angry about this like there's nothing
nothing is wrong but uh but that's what happens when I feel like you just have like three grand,
like evaporate over the course of like three days. And there's not really anyone to blame,
but yourself, um, hashtag Laudio. But, uh, but yeah, that means 100% me right now. And I've just
come to terms with it. I've just accepted it. And, uh, just accepted it and uh no so we're feeling we're
feeling good i don't know maybe we start start with start with loudio what do you what do you
think abe loudio get loud get loud god damn it um yeah i mean the 3000 was great if you sold it
um i think a lot of people maybe held on to it and yeah or maybe they
maybe they didn't since it's down i you know i don't know it's interesting because you think
with kaido right kaido backing it that was kind of the psyop right that That there's going to be like maybe something behind it, a push,
maybe some market manipulation to get our bags up, but there wasn't.
Yeah, no, that's right. I think, man, it's very tricky. There's a lot of different
aspects or dimensions to this. And I feel like it's especially poignant for,
there's a lot of people that got angry about Laudio.
I'm sure you guys mostly know the story and everything. I feel like for people like us, KB, where we are yappers, so this is kind of like, one,
it's like an unexpected revenue source, I feel like, for our lives.
So we can't take it for granted, but I also think we take it more seriously, because we're never going to be the type of people that are going to be like,
developing like an interesting, you know, like, new, we're not going to be building
Laudio, we're just going to be participating in it. But still, I think it's just one of those
things where one, like the easiest way to crash out, I feel like is to any of these threads that are doing like
post-mortems now of loudio which we're starting literally like the day of or like even the day
before people were like wow loudio is dead now and a part of you wants to just be like contrarian
and be like no no it's not dead yet although at least i wasn't you know i don't want to say stupid
enough because i think that some people made informed decisions with this or somewhat informed bets.
I'm just holding the presale, right?
So it's just basically like found money off of like a $30 or $40 presale.
So you can't be mad about turning that into $500, even though you saw it sitting in your Phantom at like $3,600 or more.
That was a nice feeling feeling would have been better to
sell but all of these like post-mortem threads are like listen guys it was a guaranteed 100x if you
sold and you're just like well yeah for sure but i'm retarded like i didn't sell so like that's
that's the problem like that's why i'm upset now was there like good reason to think that it could have gone? Can I comment something? Oh, yeah, yeah.
Sorry.
Like the problem with me being a poor European is like they announced, they made a tweet.
It was like, you can go to sleep now.
We will inform you about the LANs and stuff like that.
And I went to sleep, you know.
Then like seven hours later, they post the collect.
So I missed the top.
That's why I'm mad.
But still, it's okay.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's totally fair.
And I think that the, okay, so there are two aspects of this.
And look, I'm not, I don't want to be too negative.
Again, last night I probably would have been, but we're mellow now.
But I feel like the two big flubs if you could you know
break it down in that way were one the timing was obviously awful like just the one the IAO being on
a Saturday was like fair but anytime launches get pushed back it's just going to inevitably dampen
the hype so So like,
I don't blame them for that. It would have been worse probably if it had launched and been super
buggy. So look, like there was just, that was just unavoidable. But the TGE kind of inexplicable,
like that they launched it again, we're Americans or Europeans. Like, I guess, I don't know like
what the Asian time was that they like launched it at, but don't know, like, what the Asian time was that
they, like, launched it at, but I think it was, like, 1 a.m. EST, my time. I actually couldn't
believe that it was live when I woke up. Thought they would have given it more time. I don't know
what it would have been like if they had launched it on a Monday, but I still feel like giving some
more signaling on when it was going to come live and everything would have just
set people more at ease, given some more of a ramp up there. So it was just like a very abrupt start
into a low volume Sunday where people I just feel like are not really thinking about trading on the
weekends. We always talk about like scam pumps and stuff like that because it's just not reflective
of like what the market is actually going to do, still launched at like a
good number relatively, even though I think that people were, you know, high on hopium,
which certainly I was that it could have, or maybe I don't want to say should have,
but that it could have or would have been higher. But like in those low teens was kind of like to
be expected. You know, comparisons really kill in this way if you were just looking at like other pre-sales
and everything and where it was going to go.
But the biggest thing that really surprised me,
and this is the last thing I'll say,
I know I'm droning on,
is just that like, I think the team and influencers,
so I don't just put this on Ultra and Slade and them.
I like them. I think they've done some cool stuff. I wouldn't just put this on Ultra and Slade and them. I like them.
I think they've done some cool stuff.
I wouldn't be surprised if more interesting things come down the pike here.
But there was this air of excitement and kind of bullposting.
And even saying, hey, we have more ideas planned.
And we're going to keep iterating and doing all this stuff.
And they were posting constantly.
Ultra was at the top of the fantasy leaderboards, all of these things getting ridiculous engagement. And I understand
from like a human psychological perspective, how the launch not going how you expected.
The LPs, the liquidity pools were not kind of set up properly. And so the fees were going into these
other pools that weren't generating
fees. All the same, there's been like $450,000 in fees that have been generated. If you're in the
top 25, you're still going to get like a pretty decent payday at the end of the week here,
which I'm in like the top 75. So I'm like, man, should I like really make a push over these next
few days to get in? I just don't know if I have the juice to actually make that happen.
But yeah, like it just feels like Ultra's posting has changed now to like this very like sterile kind of like these were the mistakes that we made.
We've made an adjustment to the LP pool.
They did the Colts airdrop, which I'll be curious to see if that's like any sizable amount of money that comes out of that. Maybe it'll be like $100 or something.
That would be great. Who knows? But yeah, I just would have expected like not only the team,
but also like, which you might not even be able to call it a team because it was an experiment,
but still like the devs to keep putting out, you know, videos or
keeping the excitement alive. I think that that would have kept it in the conversation.
And the fact that again, all of the like main people that could have stood to benefit from it,
even like Ansem or like these bigger accounts, if they didn't pick it up, which they didn't,
they could have kept talking about it. But the whole narrative shifted to like, why did this fail, like immediately? And that just killed it,
like it just died instantly. And then there were other news that came out that I think just totally
trounced loud. And there's all this, like, hinging on the language of like, oh, it was just an
experiment. It was just an experiment, which like, I get that. It was just an experiment, but like also it was a successful experiment
leading up to it. So I thought that there was more that could have come out of the IAO,
the initial attention offering. That's why I still think there could be more juice
left in it. If only because it's a very interesting model that could, I think,
see some replication and be done more successfully.
I am surprised that Kaido just let it die. Don't know that necessarily reflects too poorly on them
per se, but like also maybe it does like the fact that it kind of shoots some holes in like what
the mindshare that they're capturing and that loud had actually means um for like a token and its success
so i think it's just an interesting point that we find ourselves at i again my gut was just to sell
and i talked myself into holding and i feel like whenever that's happening you should just trust
your gut like if there's any lesson that i take from this and that I charge to the game,
it says you just need to trust your gut when you're going into a trade.
So that was a long, that was really long.
So I'm sorry.
But yeah, just anybody feel free to react off of that.
Also, hey, Daniel, how's it going, man?
Hey, hey.
Oh, how's it going?
Good.
Good, bro.
Good. Daniel, were you in in on the you were in on the
loud experiment how was that for you oh yeah i was i was in the i was in the fcfs i wasn't in the
top thousand though but i was trying i don't know why at the time i was i was like yapping a lot, but I didn't get in.
But yeah, I got like around, I think it's like 50k loud token or something.
And I sold it for like 80 bucks.
It's just like, you know, quick profit for me, I don't know.
Because I, when I woke up, the token already launched,
and like, it's just like nuke to the bottom when I saw the chart.
And I literally just like sold it right away.
Yeah, no, man, that's totally fair.
I feel like you still made more money than I did.
So KB, you're still holding to like, give me your thoughts on,
on I don't know anything that I said or any of your takeaways yeah I mean I think that like
I don't know, anything that I said or any of your takeaways.
the launch in the middle of the night wasn't great and then I had to like leave that morning
like I had to like wake up early that next morning so I was like I was just getting to bed and then it launched and then but then you couldn't even claim your tokens yet
So we're like watching like this chart kind of like rip to 30 mil and you can't claim your tokens
So like that wasn't great
like that wasn't great um and I've kind of been through this like song and dance where I have like
wrecked my sleep schedule and like wrecked my next day because I'm waiting for some like crypto
thing in the middle of the night and I just like didn't want to go down that route again and like
it wasn't like a 50k or like 70k bag it would have been like 10 it would have been
like 8k ish you know but I don't know like I just was like I don't know when they're gonna let me
claim like I can't stay up till 3 4 5 a.m and I just think that it's like a little rude when
people when projects don't take into consideration, like, a decent
sleep schedule, I don't know, um, so I went to bed, and I was like, fuck it, like, it is what it is,
I just, I don't even care anymore, and that was, and that was maybe, like, the beginning of the end,
where getting mindshare is, like, one thing, but keeping attention span is like something that
nobody has been able to essentially like perfect right and then I think people underestimate
the amount of attention span that we like really have so within like 20 minutes I just didn't care anymore and I think that was like you know that's
just crypto um so I woke up and I had to like travel I claimed my tokens and I I left I started
driving and at that point I just can't be looking at a chart you know I can't be really paying
attention and I'm like, it was only
I think like it was under 3k at the time. So it's like maybe like 2700. And then at that point,
I'm like, well, I would really like, you know, to see eight or 10k, like maybe it's gonna pump back
up. And I just like took that risk of being like, you know, I want something a little more.
Maybe it's greed or maybe it was just risk.
Like I can't, this was kind of free and let's see what happens.
I sold my Kaido bag at the bottom, like last, that last like Kaido drop, right?
And I regretted it.
So I'm like, well, maybe this, you know, has like, you know, a redemption arc, you know,
comes back.
And then I just did my thing.
And it just kept going down and down and down.
And then I'm like, finally back home from my weekend.
It's like catching up with everything.
I'm like, okay, it's worth virtually nothing.
Cool.
And that's it.
So I'm not locked in, right? And I think that's what it is. I'm not locked in. I'm not looking at charts right now. I am, you know, and all these different meme coin metas and ai and
um and i was like so locked in and sacrificed like a lot in my life so i just this year i'm kind of doing like the opposite of like prioritizing you know other stuff over crypto so
that's why i didn't sell and I didn't make my 3k
keep holding keep holding yeah I mean at this point I'm gonna keep holding there's like some
um there is some like right we get maybe maybe we get like cult airdrop or something
hopefully it's better than a lady cult I don't know. But maybe we'll get airdrops from this, that would be cool.
But maybe there's something connected.
But yeah, I'm chilling, I guess.
Yeah, just chilling.
One day you may see your bugs again up to the top.
Personally, I think the biggest problem with Loudio is that their main account wasn't Loud.
After they launched, they went silent.
And I have seen like Mimcoins only by their Twitter presence going above this market cap.
So I think they could like try something and see what this project can really be because they had all the notifications necessary.
Like everyone was looking at them.
So I don't know.
No, no, I agree.
I assume that there's a road back maybe for Laudio.
I don't really know.
Like, I think it would be hard for them
to put the genie back in the bottle
in that sort of way of like recapturing
the magic of it and everything.
I do think that if there's anything that's chasing me,
it is that, like KB, what you said is right. We're both guilty of this.
Like, it is a form of greed, right? Like, insofar as like, it is, like, when you go zero or hero,
where you're like, okay, we're just gonna let this ride. Like, this is free money. Like,
I think it can go to eight or 10k or whatever it is. Like, that's a total risk.'re like, okay, we're just going to let this ride. Like this is free money. Like I think it can go to eight or 10 K or whatever it is. Like that's a total risk. And like, we could have
locked it in. We kind of talked ourselves into it. And I think when you have that zero or hero
mentality, you just have to be prepared for zero. And a lot of times it's like, well, this is a hero.
So I'm just going to let it ride. And then when that doesn't happen, it's easy to be bitter for
like, whatever the reasons are that you thought it could have done well. And then when that doesn't happen, it's easy to be bitter for like whatever the reasons
are that you thought it could have done well.
And at the end of the day, I think it's pretty silly for us to complain about still 30 or
$40 turning into 500 or 600 or $700 as it is right now.
Even though all the same, like the points that we've
shared that are like very well thought out us like spending a ton of brain power like thinking
about loudio and everything um it is so like i think that both can be true at the same time like
i think it's fair to be disappointed also like i think the only people that we have to blame
are ourselves because it is crypto.
And it's the only place where you can 10x your money and still be just truly disappointed because it could have been 100x or whatever it is.
So yeah, it's just a tricky mind game, I feel like, that you're playing all the time.
And I still wonder, so we've had this first big week where there are like a lot of fees. I don't know if Laudio recaptures an arc or whatever, where people
start talking about it again. But like, I wonder what week two will be like. I wonder what week
three will be like, where there are still at least theoretically, fees being captured, probably much
lower because you're expecting the volumes to be down a ton. But like, could it ever become like
this like small, little like gimme thing
where people keep talking about Laudio
just to try to capture some of the stuff?
Or maybe it gets championed as like a CTO.
Like there are people within the top 25
that if they just kept on talking about it,
could like potentially like give it some light,
give it some life.
But yeah, no, I mean, who knows?
We'll just have to see where
where it goes from here but for crew you've had your hand up for a while bro how's it going man
feel free to jump in hello hello guys hey bro how's it going yeah do you hear me everything
as well i just would like to share my opinion about like topics that we are discussing today so we would like to
start with audio actually the same as kb i fucked up my sleeping schedule because uh i was trying
to catch the second phase because i was like only for second phase so i claimed it and after maybe i
think everyone saw this post from ultra that like guys go to sleep don't worry we have not even started to prepare like liquidity pool with Meteoro it's gonna launch like in a few days or tomorrow so exactly after this post I went to sleep then I wake up in the morning I see that like after I went to sleep they launched the coin and I sold 100% on the bottom but anyway it's free money i don't want
to cry here it's free it was free money and actually something new for crypto this larger
stuff maybe it will turn on like something big later but it depends on the team and how they
want to move it after so second what we're talking is pump fun this they're like planning to launch coin
already high market cap and stuff i think it's not the best idea for pump fun like as a one of
the community member of pump one because i used to click the same skb a lot of on pump fun last
year was clicking a lot all these meme coins and so on and stuff.
And they're making like really big money and they already did like a lot of money with fees.
And they now planning like to raise so much money. I think like one billion, if I'm not wrong, on pre-sale.
I think it looks just like, I don't know, crime season keep going.
But let's see how community will
interact with this maybe it will also be good for pump fun and now i have guys question to you
i saw just a few posts about this trump wallet magic item stuff the fuck is happening is it scam
or we're gonna yeah we're gonna get into that um i mean we can i guess we can get into
the pump fun stuff now you know we've already kind of talked about laudio um we do have moon
boy's hand up so i'll go to moon boy really quick and then yeah we'll definitely get into all that
because i'm pretty curious too and i heard a couple spaces so um but what's that, my boy? Yeah, if I'm being honest, I don't actually believe in the opinion that, you know, the money was free.
Because literally, if you talk about the attention economy, it's those thousand people on the leaderboard that actually somehow managed to get the attention towards Laudio.
So I don't get the point of the
pre-sale being free money but if we talk about what went wrong in terms of
what went wrong in terms of the execution then there are a handful of
things that could have been done better the discrepancy was always there the
delays did not make things better and stuff like that but if i'm being honest
as someone from the sidelines who watched all of it transpire i'll be very honest i love the kind
of vibe that it brought to ct yes that was not organic and everyone was in it for themselves
and whatnot but if i'm being honest, everyone had a fair shot.
For those like some of you guys on the panel
who somehow managed to get enough followers
or whatever the criteria was,
they somehow managed to win.
But everyone had the shot and it was exciting.
After a few weeks or months of very stale same old things that kept
happening this was a ray of hope for everyone as retail participants but yeah i guess the execution
could have been better but yeah that's that's just my two cents i guess yeah i think that's i think
that's pretty fair just i think that your point about it just being something new is like a good point and that there's still a lot left in the kaido idea as
they keep developing and keep on um you know just putting out new concepts and everything like i
definitely don't think that regardless of where laudio goes that this is like the end of like the
initial attention offering because it definitely uncovered
something about how you can capture like a good deal of mindshare like if you were to have this
as something for like a real project like with utility or whatever it is i basically like i just
think that that that is a proof of concept regardless of how loudio's
execution and everything came out so it'll be interesting to see like how things play out in
the future and like where they could potentially go because i don't think the concept is dead it
might just be that loudio is buried in the ground now so we'll have to see where uh where things go yeah I guess the concept is somewhat dead in my opinion because
attention solely does not drive success in my opinion if if the attention span or you know the
mind share is what mattered and that was the core thing that you know shaped up financial markets ct would have you know uh
made a completely different thing out of the market but the the things that power those people
who possess that kind of power are are not even close to how ct reacts to things so yeah the real
money does not lie on ct in my opinion and yeah the game's the
game's so big that none of us have enough power over it to even you know to even think about
you know that mindshare or ct folks somehow can influence stuff like that i don't know i might
take the other side of that only insofar as one i I do think that there's a lot of money in CT. Like
it really is, I do think like kind of a hot ball of money that passes from thing to thing. I think
it's fair to say that, uh, obviously Laudio didn't convert that into like real economic value or
whatever you want to call it. Um, but like there's a world where Laudio, if you take all of the critiques and you say, OK, imagine Laudio launched like 10 a.m. Monday with like a lot of hype, even say it was launched with the LP with the liquidity pools being optimized to where you could capture all of the fees or even like most of the fees. This may
theoretically even have had to have been done on like an EVM chain. There was like some discussion
of that, that like, would it have been better if it had launched on base or something like that?
I think that there's a world where Laudio could have not necessarily like gone to the moon,
like 500 million or a billion was probably always like a dream, even maybe like 50 or 100 million.
But it could have captured and sustained that. And then the flywheel that they talked about a lot
could have kept spinning right in this way of people talking about it, people speculating on it,
trying to get into the top 25, the fees becoming ridiculous, becoming like a multi five figure or
six figure airdrop for those people that would have motivated them to keep on talking about it. I do think that there's a world where Laudio was successful and there were
things that went pretty wrong with it. But again, in the spirit of it being an experiment, I do
think that there are things that are different. Because I think that that's totally fair to say
that attention and mindshare didn't convert, because I think that's totally fair to say that like attention and mindshare didn't convert,
but I think that there was some
external factors that contributed to that
or maybe internal factors.
But like attention and mindshare,
like if you need any sense of that,
now this is external to crypto Twitter,
but like Cardano and XRP are memes, right?
They are meme coins.
Like they actually,
the tech of like what they're building on the order of like multi tens or hundreds of billions of dollars of market cap
is from a different swath of society, right? It's not from crypto Twitter, but it is like a meme.
They are like ideas. They are based on attention and everything. And I think that that is still
true to a large extent with Bitcoin, even though
Bitcoin is the best meme in a sense, and it does have underlying tech that is good, first mover
advantage, all those things. But like Bitcoin is an attention coin. Ethereum is an attention coin
insofar as though there's tech that underlies it, there is also like just these cults that like form around it and everything
just on a macro scale. So I think that you can't discount that like mindshare and attention can
convert. It really just is in like the follow through and everything that comes with that.
And so like a blow off top of attention is probably not what you're looking for.
But if there was a way where like, you know, Laudio stakers would
receive like future initial attention offering distributions from Kaido or something like that,
right? Like, or something where there was some incentive other than just to get paid out fees
that could have contributed to that flywheel. There were, I think, ways to potentially make it sustainable
and maybe still are, right? We just actually don't know where it goes from here. But I think
you can't discount attention, but I think you can say that the way that Laudio executed and the ways
that things turned out were not ideal or whatever it is. So only counterpoint, but I do agree with like the, the thesis of how it turned out with regard to,
to loud.
But yeah,
I think it is good.
Recruit got us into the,
the pump fun topic.
We should definitely talk pump fun because this is super interesting.
I'm,
I'm actually,
I'm tentatively bullish.
Yeah.
wait,
why are you bullish on the motherfuckers? Like what? Wait, no. Wait, why are you bullish
on these motherfuckers?
Like, what?
He's right, because if they decide to do
any kind of airdrop,
yeah, let's go, Panfan.
It would be very nice.
You think they're going to? They're going to keep all that money.
I don't think they're going to do an airdrop, but I don't think
it's wrong.
I can manifest it.
I think the ico is fine
like what i think people forget is that like pump fun is a business like i don't buy that pump fun
is extracting like by generating revenue i think that you can be like because people are taking part in it like it's not extracting to to run a successful business
and if pump fun is giving people exposure at what i think is a high but reasonable valuation with
regard to like the four billion and you have the opportunity to like speculate on that people i
think there will be an appetite for it. I think that it will be
oversubscribed probably. Would you rather buy PumpFun at $4 billion or Circle at $6.7 billion?
I don't know that either. I probably won't be buying either, but I probably would bet on PumpFun
at $4 billion because I think that they are going to take the money and use it for building out a streaming platform.
I think that they think that they can compete with Twitch or with Kik and become a real casino, a real business that has streaming options that they can use to maybe entice some people to like come in and that the coins that are associated with streams could become like this vehicle for betting on like the virality of shows and all this stuff.
Like I'm just thinking if there was like up only, which everybody goes back to, but if
there was like an up only token or whatever it was, like, again, like, I don't know if
people would like speculate on it or if you would need to give it utility or whatever
it is, but that I think that there's like a real world where pump can further the goals of their business and potentially like
go into like the real world and like capture more normies in a way that's even deeper than just
the speculation and everything. And just the last thing is, I think that ICOs are better than
airdrops, probably. Like I do think that giving people the opportunity to invest.
Now, I don't know if they make it like only for accredited investors or only for like
VCs and stuff like that.
That would be hard.
I don't know what the legality and everything is there.
I don't know if they'll just be able to open it up for any, you know, Joe Schmo to be able
to participate.
I hope they do that.
But if that's the case, then like, I think
we can't really blame them because you're just putting skin in the game. And I think that skin
in the game is always better for companies in a lot of ways than airdrops. Although airdrops,
I think are good in the way of rewarding people for that. Like for Pump, like why does it make
sense to like airdrop their tokens, like a bunch of them to people and
then just expect them to get like dumped on like really, really hard. Whereas if you put some skin
in the game, you can actually be like invested in the long term future of pump and everything.
And I think that there might be a world where it's still like it actually has like room to grow.
Although I'm also open to the idea that this is kind of like the top for Solana,
because I think it could also lead to being a better speculative vehicle than Solana has been
historically for like shoe coin exposure. So that's just my read, but it's not fully,
it's not fully formed. So yeah, scene, feel free to jump in, bro.
No, I kind of was agreeing with what you're saying about creation i think
they're kind of thinking about bringing creation mainstream right like you look at all these
streamers are cutting fat checks to make them stream on their platform all these clippers that
they're having come on and clip these streams and then like the base house they're sponsoring right
like what else are they going to do i think they want to promote content creation and i i wrote like some random tweet about this yesterday, but just speculation, some sort
of change, some sort of L2, some sort of platform that promotes creation.
And I think it could be really cool.
And if anyone can do it right, it's them.
And I think I saw something yesterday along the lines of them getting more investing for
this coin.
But regardless, right, they don't need the investing.
They can do this.
They can make this happen if they want to make this happen. And they can make it happen in the shadows without
telling anyone else. So that's just, that's where my mind's at. So is your, okay, so what is your
take on the ICO? Is your take that it's superfluous because of the revenue that they've generated?
Or you think it's like a good bet? Are they, are they having, they're having more investors, right,
for the actual token itself
did they announce that because they announced lock supply for x amount of time yeah i think
that's right i think that there will be i think that there's going to be like availability i think
the coin is going to be offered i think maybe to the public or like retail but also to investors
i think that's right i don't know. I don't really know. Well,
like you said, right, there has to be some sort of idea behind the token, right? Because you look
at Laudio and if there's nothing else holding it afloat, it's just going to go to shit. And I don't
think they want to, you know, this to be the last thing they're known for is launching a token that
just goes to shit. So I'm leaning towards the creation side because it's still up in the air, right?
Like a platform or a chain or something that really pushes creation.
And they really don't need to think about the revenue stream aspect of it just yet,
considering how much money they're just making on a daily basis.
Yeah, no, I think that's fair.
KB, feel free to take the opposite side or just give me your i think
yeah i think your take's terrible uh and also like i put money into the circle ipo um but like
comparing pump fund to the circle like ico when when you know nothing about like the token or are
there going to be by you're not getting a stock you don't get equity in the company you get a token added a crazy valuation like pump fund should have done this at like
maybe nine months ago when it was like a way better evaluation i would have been interested
at like maybe you know 100 mil if i was gonna like take the risk and bet on pump fund doing
well and being something because that's
what i'm in crypto for i'm not in crypto to buy pump fun and like fucking at a crazy evaluation
without any real information yet and then get like dumped on and get exit like any other big
fucking chain like vc fucking launch that we've had oh starts out crazy high valuation like no
no one that, like, buys
in really makes money unless
you were in, like, the early private round, which this
is not. Like, you're not getting a good
price at $4 billion.
So, I think it's a
crazy take to compare
it to the Circle IPO,
personally.
Like, I like PumpFun. I wish them the
best. I'm not, like, I hope they give me free tokens.
I'm super bullish on getting an airdrop.
I'm not bullish at all if they don't give me an airdrop and they just want me to invest
at four billion at like what's maybe at least like we're at least close to the top of this
cycle.
So like I don't how much more room do they have to run and like execute to like
make those numbers go up more this cycle so i could exit so i'm not bag holding next bear market
bro i don't um good luck yeah i think i would rather invest in the circle i see you because
at least like with a stable coin like i can i like, shill stablecoins to, like, normies, right?
And, like, at this point in, like, your maturity of, like, being in crypto and being in space, like, I, people, I don't want people to lose money anymore.
And, like, you won't lose money with Circle.
You may not make, like, millions of dollars, right?
But, like, with PumpFun, you have
a, okay, maybe you may lose a little money. But like, with PumpFun, you have a very like high
percentage of losing all your money. And I think PumpFun has more greed than Circle, in my opinion.
And like, again, this isn't't like they're trying to solve like some
real world issues with crypto where pump fun is just greed and they're just trying and they're
just a business trying to make money right and i don't think like i this streaming this like
competing for streaming in crypto because it's
not just pump fun it's a few other platforms we are not ready like we are not mature for that
and it's all going to fail and what's the point though right yeah but like it's not going to be
it's not going to be these platforms it's going to be these other platforms adapting crypto it depends then we may
see them succeed in that i think that's my opinion though fair i think it depends if they lean into
the like the casino perspective right because like look at like stake like the whole point is
you use your streaming platform as a vehicle to get people to gamble more. And if Pump plans to do that, then it could be good.
I just don't think enabling gambling is a good thing for society.
Oh, it's bad for society.
Yeah.
It's not something that I can tell my friends.
Like, yeah, go ahead.
Why don't you develop a gambling addiction like I did,
that I've been you know going
that i've been having to like cure for the last like three months because i stopped fucking
gambling on pump fun like we all have dude we all have gambling addictions like this is like we're
trying to like project our addictions like onto other people so that our addiction can be fed
like the people still gambling in the trenches they have
fucking issues bro like issues like oh my god 10k to 100k i made a 5x on my 0.2 soul like
this is a problem and if you don't see that i can't like in good conscience like tell other
people to develop this issue and i think that's why that pump fund and all that
bullshit is essentially going to fail well i completely agree with the gambling right like
it's kind of tough to just like push gambling down your throat but if you look at it like you
go on you go on any basketball game any baseball game any football game the odds are thrown in
your face right like mainstream media is throwing gambling in our face and uh it's just everywhere
right because they're making i mean someone's making money off of it but it's just where it
is right so i can see them shoving gambling in everyone's face but it's it's working in
mainstream media right it's it's working i think that the only thing is, like, there might be...
Well, yeah, I mean, fair.
I think that gambling is becoming ubiquitous.
I think that this is a play,
which is, I don't think,
that good for society.
Just from a fundamentals perspective,
one, I think that PumpFun
could be shifting the focus of the app like i don't know how gambling
and streaming will interplay but i think that there's like a real opportunity there the only
other thing that i'll say is like the meme coin top might be in probably is in but it's been in
okay no it's probably in i mean if bitcoin went to like 150k or something like that i do think
that there would be like life in the trenches if ethereum pumped to like three or four k you know
that like pepe would still be running and everything i don't know what that means for
solana and everything but like pump fun has generated like what 700 million dollars in the
last year something like that now that's crazy Circle has generated like 155 million and it's
raising at 6.7 billion and a ton of their profits go to Coinbase. So like Coinbase is like propping
up Circle in a lot of ways. There's like distribution that comes from their deal with
them. And there's a ton, a ton of stable coin startups that are like coming and trying
to eat circles lunch. I think they do have orders of magnitude to where this could happen.
But the top of last cycle was the Coinbase IPO. And Coinbase is like barely, it is like halfway,
but it's halfway back to like where it IPO'd back in the last cycle. So I think that you can
definitely lose your money on a circle IPO. And the valuation
is like way higher in terms of like a PE ratio with regard to circle than it is with regard to
to pump fun. And so I don't I don't know. And one, I think the only other thing is like we have to be
fair, even if you look, I'm not I'm not going to, I'm not, I'm not going to buy pump fund.
Like I'm not going to invest,
but like,
I think that them giving the opportunity,
people the opportunity to invest is like a good thing.
If that is what happens.
And I don't think that it's like an insane valuation because you look at
other coins that are valued in that $4 billion range,
like Uniswap,
for instance,
I don't know that I'm not convinced per se that like Uniswap,
Uniswap is, PumpFun is certainly like as ubiquitous or like as well known like as PumpFun,
right? Like PumpFun at its height could have probably commanded like a probably like what,
I don't know, $8 to $10 billion valuation. Now they're not launching at their top,
but they have been
signaling this shift towards streaming for a while they're having gains neon they're having you know
people that i don't i think the gainsy stream is funny but that's probably like the big one but
they are encouraging the streaming aspect i think there's a world where it becomes like
a sustainable business where like meme coins are a part of it but maybe not like the entire thing
maybe it just becomes like a function of like, but maybe not like the entire thing. Maybe it just becomes
like a function of like the product offering that they're going to have. And people were saying with
Circle when it came out that they didn't know how it was going to get to a $5 billion valuation.
And they're launching at $6.7 billion. So like that would just make me nervous when Tether is so
much further ahead of them and has a lot of like catalysts coming
with like plasma and different things like that. And USDC is like so reliant on Coinbase. So I
don't think that the pump fund, I guess I'm just saying that I don't think that the pump fund
launch is crazy. And I think that people ont are going to start to come around i hope
to the fact that icos can be a better way to speculate than airdrops and like buying tokens
at a public launch and the only last thing is just that i think that with pump fund there it got
leaked i think that that's the thing like we can't really like fault them for not putting information out about the token and everything and like what their plans are
because it got leaked. Like it got, it got people covered it from block works, but like
pump fund didn't respond. Like they didn't probably want this to be public now. Maybe they did. I
don't know. But like, there's still time for them to like actually share details. They haven't said
anything about it so like we
still need to learn more i think before we can kind of like cast a judgment per se and i think
for it to be successful they're going to need to paint the picture of where they want it to go and
why it would be worthwhile like investing in or buying into so their execution thus far has been
like obviously like pretty good and so i think that it's probably bearish for
solana but it could potentially still be bullish for pump fun like i think that they've pump swap
just shows that they're a business like they're getting after they know kind of like what the
what the goal is so the crew or moon boy yeah feel free to jump in guys and then also i want
to get nick lachey's perspective yeah guys i just wanted to say that
you were saying about if they're gonna raise it and like streaming platform uh like collaboration
with switch all this stuff it's super bullish for pump fun but not as bullish for society as
kb said but anyway it's really bullish for the project but in my opinion maybe i have this
opinion after all this crime that
happened on salano this president's calling you know all this stuff i think that's like
haven't seen that economic i think they didn't launch it yet uh like road map like all this
stuff but in my mind like i see from launching on like four fucking billions market cup and just
slowly dumping this is what in my
mind and i might be wrong because like we don't have so many informations yet and yeah as you
said it would be much easier if we would have more info what is their plan next for fun and also as
someone said i think said as an origami that they should do this like a
long time ago when they had like big hype when coins like went to I don't
200 million in a couple minutes when this all this stuff happened when
everyone knew about pump fun I have friends that's like okay I want to go to
crypto which main coin I should buy and And they should do this there, but not now. Now it looks like they, okay, we lose our hype.
We have not so many fees, all this stuff. Now I think bonding like Terradium, it's from 30k.
I might be wrong, but really low. And, uh, low and wait a second I was an idea what Hunter to say
hey guys wait a second Moonboy I think it's you should say something and my bad My best. I need to go, guys. I need to go. He's just like me, for real.
Yeah.
Yeah, Ufi,
I'm being real
speculative here. For anyone who's
comprehending, you know, if
the pre-sale or whatever the heck
that is, is net positive,
why exactly would
you think that they let retail in
at a $4 billion valuation?
Big raises, big deals and all of that have historically happened away from the noise of CT.
And there's a reason that not everyone has access to pre-sales like that.
And there's a reason that when actual retail is getting...
I'm just speculating here, I'm
assuming that all users or a certain criteria of users would have the access to buy in pump
at $4 billion.
So why exactly would you think that they'd let you in at $4 billion?
Surely, because this is their last attempt at extracting anything and everything that they can
right now because the numbers are down drastically. Each and everyone knows that and let's not forget
that we are talking about one of the most extractive teams in Web3. They kept dumping
Seoul and they did not even, i guess there was an incident where
where someone did something really tragic on video and it took them like 48 hours to take that down
and stuff like that so i don't think that the speculations are going to work here the the the
all that we are speculating and hoping on is about the kind of potential that a streaming platform, a's brainchild abstract, which is also, you know, media or content-driven economy is dead.
And Pajis did actually have their fair share of, you know, Web2 onboarding
or, you know, getting mainstreamed or stuff like that.
But the fact remains that this is one of the most extractive teams
and I highly doubt they
want retailing surely because they want everyone to make money i i am not gonna be as brutal as
origami or kb but i think it's actually very comical to compare circle to pump fun but uh
yeah that's all i guess no see i don't i don't agree i don't think pump fun is
extractive see is the like i just don't know how like but how okay how are they extractive would
be my question like i think that they're making money like they're like revenue and like is
like is like a paper towel company like is like bounty like extractive like i don't really
know what them not being i think it just comes from like that they're maybe selling solana like
from earning it or whatever but like i don't think they're selling a lot of solana like they're
giving it to them yes but they're just they're not they're not giving it back they're making it. People are giving it to them. Yes, but they're not giving it back.
Why do they have to give it back? They're a business.
Why not? That's why they're extractive.
They're prying on addiction in that three.
Yeah, that's what we're implying.
If they were not extractive, they would have done it far earlier
when the numbers were up and they actually wanted their their uh users
their community to make money they never wanted that in the first place all they want is a last
shot at whatever amount of money they could make out of retail but also why not bring money in
bring volume in when there's less volume than before yeah like they're pivoting on their product
like they're trying i mean like this is i mean look that's possible i'm not i'm not saying i
disagree per se but like this is also and I think that the only thing about
like the ICO is like the ICO has not been a thing in the past. Like Sonar recently launched from
Echo because under the previous regulatory regime, you would literally probably have gone to jail for
doing an ICO. So like now there is like a relaxation, it seems like, of these ideas that we don't really know.
We're kind of guessing.
And so I do think I don't think that it's fair to say that, like, they're just doing this because they want to dump on retail.
This is actually what people I think have been desiring is to get access to these sales to get in at like a reasonable valuation. And I don't know that
for maybe 4 billion for pump and like its current iteration is very high, but I don't think it's
crazy with how much hype and like ubiquity they've kind of like established in the space,
especially if they have plans to like potentially like reach
out to the market and like look there are other teams that like have done this but pump fun has
executed better than anyone so like i think that you would still bet on their long-term execution
i would way more than like you know pudgy penguins or like whatever it is they've had two other rounds before this sure they were much i
think they were more towards the beginning of the time and i don't think it's i mean that's not
necessarily a bad thing they've been successful i don't know okay nick lachey what do you think
maybe we're all wrong i don't know so just could be wrong i think um one it's just funny.
There's so many people on here that were shilling Laudio.
But so for PumpFun, I think the reality is that a lot of things can be true at the same time. And so if we just distance ourselves from like, if we think they're bad or nefarious,
like let's just like take away that part and just look at kind of the functional aspects of how things work. So I think what is true, right, they had previous rounds, right,
they had investors. So for those people, there's, they're probably on some sort of lockup vesting,
right, for a token launch, and they had probably no rev share. So this ICO allows, right, for them
to get paid out at a value that's much higher, like it's beneficial for their investors, etc,
because they didn't get a piece of that. My guess is it didn't get a piece of that
rev pie, right? Of like the 750 mil that they made. So I think from a practical sense, yeah,
like they're going to do this. It'd be the same thing as if you invested in a seed round in
something, like you expect them to launch a token at some point and you want a multiplier right off
of that. And I think the other thing about ico pricing is i think people
quickly forget like what open sea was so open sea at its peak right and this wasn't they never ico'd
or anything right but they did raises so their peak value was like 13 and a half billion and
they raised 300 million off of that and their rev amounts right at that time were kind of like
what was like 150 mil something like that um in like their peak
month or whatever so i think yeah 180 mil at like yeah 180 mil at like a 16 billion dollar valuation
yeah yeah but the last raise they did was at 13 and change right where they made 300 million like
the smaller post money stuff doesn't matter but i think broadly speaking that's why i think the
pump fund price point in terms of like where they're at right now is relatively fair. And I think what we're going
to also see from that is that most of that money that they're going to raise is not going to come
from you or me or retail, right? It's going to come from VCs. It's going to come from other
investors because this is how it works, right? If you're in a pre-seed round or a seed round,
you got in at a really good price. You're're gonna make a killing right off of the ICO.
You probably can hedge that by participating in the ICO
and now you're basically running risk-free.
And from a capital perspective, yeah, it helps them.
Like they get a bunch of money
that they can either decide to take a shot at,
streaming's very expensive if you wanna do it right.
But it's very hard to scale.
Like it's why Twitch and all those things are net negatives,
right, for the companies that bought bought them like Amazon, et cetera.
So if they're going to actually do that seriously, it's going to cost a ton of money.
But I still don't think that to what I think other people have said is really a, is really
going to lead to success, right?
The only way they lead to success is they like casino-fy everything.
Like take that money, like buy and build an online crypto casino do whatever they have to do to like
get max like gamble on it that isn't just meme coins because i think they probably
are smart enough to realize like that ship is not going to maintain right the revenue that they need
um so like i don't think an icos also like generally speaking outside of like the craze
from two cycles ago like today if you look at an icos speaking outside of like the craze from two cycles ago
like today if you look at an ico it's about like the difference between an ico and like some some of us let's say like trying to like invest in something else like a seed round is that a seed
round is meant to be at a lower val because you have vesting and lockup an ico is going to be
closer to what's considered fair fair val meaning you'll get a less of a multiple because there is no lockup so there's a trade-off so like yeah is the valuation at four bills ago yeah it should be
lower so then I could get in but yeah this isn't a seed round there's no lockup ICOs almost generally
speak our immediate unlocks so why would they give you a favorable price and to get an easy multiple
off of it they're trying to price it so that they can get as much money as they can, right,
to sell up a significant portion of the entire token amount.
In this case, whatever it is, like 25% or whatever.
And they're going to price it where there's some upside,
but realistically, it's just fair market value that the market will pay.
And that's the same thing as an IPO, right?
Largely speaking, I mean, the mechanisms are different,
but it's not like you go into an IPO being like,
yeah, I'm going to make like a 3X off this
because they're going to purposely price it low.
Like even for Circle, like ARK wants 150 million of that, right?
That's in the prospectus before it even starts.
So I just think like, yeah, I don't think like they're like the,
hey, we're going to give you free money type of company
and they don't need to be.
But I think like how they're operating from like, what is an ICO? What is FairVal? Like,
to me, those numbers aren't like, crazy. Like, they're relatively like, reasonable,
if that's what they're doing. The question is, what do they do with that? Like, can they actually
succeed in an environment? Or do they just become OpenSea and become fairly irrelevant,
with like, very little revenue? and i think both are like options depending
on what they do with it so that's kind of my take like i don't necessarily agree or like like or do
i see like a future for them like that's like amazing i don't unless they get into like every
like form of gambling possible um but largely speaking like from their perspective of what
they're doing like it makes sense and the value to me is is what the market will probably pay and again like 80 of that i'll talk about this happy
like the vast majority of that is not going to be us it's going to be the vc side it's going to be
larger money pools that are buying it up probably a small fraction that will be actually available
for retail buyers in my opinion so that's my long-winded thing but um yeah so we'll see i
wrote like a short post on it but like i think the mechanics that they've employed are predatory
like generally speaking because it works casinos use it but um they just don't have a mechanism
that allows that to be successful long term right um because the main point stuff i do think has
topped as everyone has said,
and they're going to have to find new mechanisms.
And that's the question.
Can they find those revenue streams?
And that's TBD, to be honest.
Like, pump fund is a one in a million, right?
In terms of, like, hitting.
Same with OpenSea.
Like, right place, right time, right platform.
Kind of early entry, early backed by the right groups.
If you read OpenSea's history, like it's the same, right?
And they never found the next thing.
So yeah, we'll see, I think, but yeah.
Yeah, see, I think it's just an interesting,
see, I think it's because it's PumpFun that it's really hard, right?
Because people have strong feelings and rightfully so about PumpFun.
Like I've never launched or traded on PumpFun.
Like I would not get an airdrop from PumpFun.
That's not virtue signaling.
I just don't, I don't really see it as a huge, it's never been something that like interested me.
It's like launching coins.
I think having the functionality is helpful.
Like the bonding curve was like a innovation
that helped people.
But I don't think it's really been like a net good
for society, maybe value neutral,
maybe net negative, right?
Like just the pure ability to be able to do it.
Like the way that PumpFun has gone about it.
Yeah, certainly like playing into people's like darker sides of their, yeah, like just
greed or whatever you want to call it.
I think at the end of the day, like one, I guess just like a big takeaway for me is just
like that.
I think that we have to be, I don't know, like, I think we just need to be somewhat positive
on VCs, at least ideally, like, pump fun is like a winner, right? Like, it's been a win for them.
Like, I think if they get paid out now, look, like, again, because it's pump fun, like, maybe
we just say that, like, it should have failed, but it didn't fail, it succeeded. And for every pump
fun, right, there's like a boop. There's a
boop.fun, dude. What a joke. Oh my gosh. But yeah, there's a boop. There's what else? There's
other launch fads that have failed, right? And they had seed rounds probably, right? Like those
people, they're not going to make their money back. Like they're going to lose money. OpenSea
died. Like OpenSea is kind of like the example of this from last cycle although
maybe they weren't as extracted kind of they were they had really high fees right like throughout
this whole time yeah they're super extractive they never gave anything back sure i do think
happens to pump fun no like the web i mean like giving things back, like that just seems like a luxury to me and not something that like businesses like must do.
I don't know.
Like maybe I'm just crazy, but like I don't know that like that is extractive.
Like do we do do we think that like regular Web 2 businesses are like extractive?
I think yes, I think I think what we've learned've learned though is that cozy was in the earlier
pump fun round i think that's i think that's primarily what we've learned from this call so
yeah wow no i was i was definitely not that would be hilarious though if i yeah wouldn't that be
hilarious if like all of this was just me like shilling my bags i'm like up like yeah like 800
000 or like at 1.6 mil i was looking at like
if you would because there was a guy that said he got in at like 6 million and i was like what
if you had like clipped like 5 or 10k into pump fund um it would be worth a lot but uh but yeah
no no that's not me okay why do you think they're extractive kb like why what what why do people
why do businesses owe you things back I think don't
they give you half a soul if you bond a token so it's not like they don't give you anything back
oh half a soul I mean yeah that's why people like ruggers you're like continue to like make the same
money and like I just think that like this isn't web 2, right? I'm getting a DM saying like this isn't Web 2.
This is like Web 3 and there's like 10,000 users here.
We're not looking at a scale of like, you know, I don't know.
Sure, like a small business isn't going to give back to their customers.
customers but I think that like the ethos of crypto is that eventually we don't get like
retail right we don't get new money essentially we kind of are just like recycling our money here
and like recycling crypto for now to like make it lively to make it a thing so you have to have
your users like happy and happy. And I feel
like with OpenSea, you kind of had, like, this downfall. Sorry, I got, I got bugged there.
You kind of had this, like, downfall of, you know, NFTs, right? And it could, you could argue
that it was OpenSea and then, like, Blur, right? And then there's this perfect storm of like OpenSea
just charging these fees,
not giving anybody anything back
to kind of like replenish the losses
when everything was crashing
and then Blur incentivizing trading and farming.
And so then, you know, you had the first two airdrops for Blur.
Now it's like, you know, now it doesn't exist.
And so between those two companies, like, I don't know.
NFTs are dead.
Like, NFTs aren't coming back, in my opinion.
And then you have, like, Magic Eden, like, whatever.
And we can get into Magic Eden after because I feel like we're just gonna go into circles here of like is PumpFun extractive and like what makes a good like Web3 company
or and and comparing that to like Web2 companies um I just do think that at a certain point like
we do need to be like replenished to kind of and that's like what we've been doing in crypto maybe maybe it's
not working maybe it's failing but i do think there's a way to like give back to the community
to kind of continue to kind of continue like what we're doing here um otherwise i do think that
like we'll like we'll just continue losing people um and we just haven't figured this out yet. So you basically ask to pay you to stay here, right?
Yes.
Okay.
I think the trade-off, right? It's like the whole concept of like an airdrop or whatever
or anything is what does each party get? And both parties should get something that's relatively balanced so like if if let's say pump
phone was going to airdrop every user like a ton of money like are they getting equal value in
return and i think this is the part that's been jaded for people like i think you can farm
something for however long you're going to farm it and expect to like way more return on sort of
like whatever
crap job you did right just shilling something and i think as the space matures and it gets
closer and more mature like more web 2 and more entrance that sort of balance between what you
give and what you get is going to become closer and closer right like it's not it's not going to
distance more where you get more for doing less it's you're going to get equal value in return.
Like that's how equilibrium works.
So I think like the more that crypto matures, we go more into Web2 model.
Like that's how it's going to function.
And so like for a casino, like that's what pump fund kind of is right to some degree.
Like for a casino, like you go there and the house always has an edge.
You stay there long enough, you'll lose money.
But there's other stuff around there to maybe give you some satisfaction back or you just have a problem.
Is a casino extractive in terms of like there's no like net positive for people going there income wise?
Sure, there is no net positive like on paper, like money wise for you going there.
But the other benefits of maybe you have a good time, you hang out, you find enjoyment out of it.
Like that's the tradeoff, right? Or like the of maybe you have a good time you hang out you find enjoyment out of it like that's the trade-off right or the or like the illusion that you have a chance and that's the
trade-off that you're paying for so i think that's kind of like i think sometimes in crypto we think
the trade-off always has to be us receiving money but i think that's still because the space is
immature the more it matures i think that changes and i think that's where we're headed whether we
like it or not so like the the days of, oh yeah,
like I'm just gonna get something
for being a part of X, Y, Z.
Like I think those days are gonna end
like sooner rather than later.
Like it's gonna be what you contribute
that is what you get back.
Ever pumped on like, like realistically,
like that's the question, right?
Like what's in their mind,
what's the valuation of each person participating
or each token launcher? And if I'm them, like who am I going to end up rewarding? It's probably
going to end up being the people that are like streaming stuff right now that are maybe
that have done a lot of volume or launch tokens to some degree, but also generally speaking,
like the other way to do it is what they're doing now with ICO. So I just, not to be morbid,
but I think that's the direction it's heading,
like fair value exchange, whether we like it or not.
And so like the free money days,
I think are going to be less and less.
Yeah.
I think that's right.
I think the only thing that goes along with that,
maybe I'm just too much of an optimist, right?
But is that like, as you approach that
kind of web to parity and everything,
theoretically, we go from, I don't know if it's 10,000 users.
It does feel like that sometimes.
It's probably like 100 or 150,000, maybe a few million that are interacting on chain and everything right around the world.
There are more like there, but they're just much more niche or doing different things like stable coins or whatever it is.
Like those more people will come in, more capital will flow in. You want to
own Bitcoin in that scenario, I guess is the answer. I think that a lot of these, there is
more money that could flow in, but it will probably be, we've been talking about this forever, but
fundamentally sound companies that could win by this.
And you could have like you might not have like, you know, Google is not going to like airdrop to you.
But if you like were, you know, searching Google back in like the 90s and you thought like, wow, this probably has some utility like for the future here.
And then they IPO. You're like, oh, I'm going to buy their stock like that's a good trade for you. Like you've done really well over the long term. Like it can
be the same for a lot of these coins. And I do think that, yeah, probably airdrops. I don't know
that they're aligning incentives in the right way. Like, in fact, I'm pretty confident that they're
not. But there still is like a place for this. yeah, crypto idea of like we're rewarding people for believing in us, for giving us volume early, for it being their data, all of that stuff.
There is a good side to airdrops and everything.
But I do think it's, yeah, like there's a world where, yeah, like maybe we just, maybe crypto is like mass adopted and we look back on these days and we're like wow that was insane when like you know hype made like a thousand millionaires in like a day or like
whatever it was or like oh i just was getting like three to five thousand dollars every like
three to five months for like trying a protocol or like whatever whatever it is so yeah man it's
just a it's an interesting shift in uh in time and but i think that there
will be upsides in terms of like mass adoption potentially and really like trad fi like coming
in to like utilize a lot of these tools that hopefully have like more decentralized rails
that can create a net good for society um outside of like a pump fund world. Yeah. And I think airdrops have a place,
but I think if I was like in a structure,
how to do incentives, I do like the normal stuff.
You do a seed, pre-seed, angel, whatever you want to do.
Then you probably do that at a low VAL with a lockup.
That's, you know, a couple of years, whatever.
Then you just go, then if you're doing well and it's hype,
then you ICO, right?
You get a higher ticket item.
Everyone's happy that preceded.
The vows fair, other people can get in.
You raise a lot of money.
And then after that, you airdrop.
You airdrop to the people, the users that you value for whatever reason, right?
And that's probably now a smaller amount.
But I think it's kind of like that order is my preference
because you sort of have each portion of that
targeting a different group or the same group to a small degree.
But it allows entry in different ways for different people
and probably at the right sizing.
So it's not that airdrops disappear.
I just think that they become much more targeted
to try to reward the people that are actually bringing value to the eco that you should be
airdropping versus like the industrial civil farmers. Right. So I think I think that's the
shift. But I think all three can work together well, as you know, like wealth driver mechanisms
for people that are investing smartly.
Yeah. Yeah. Right on. Okay. Well, we've only got a few minutes left because I want to let us go in
case anybody wants to tune into the Abdel space, um, DeFi act in like eight minutes here, but we
got to close. I've still got juice. Trump wallet, baby. Trump wallet. Come on. This is a good,
this is a good way to close out. Oh, my gosh, man.
Too funny.
KB, what did you think when all of this is unfolding?
Yeah, not looking great.
I mean, on the first, like, right away, it looks a bit embarrassing for Magic Eden.
You know what I'm saying?
Like, because from even like
a user and like a perspective, you're just like, wait, they're not aligned. And like, this is their
coin. And so you know, you do a little more research, and you kind of see like, what the
Magic Eden team is saying. And I tuned into a space like slightly and their only argument is that like well we talked to the trump team the
official meme coin trump team that's what it is we talked to the official meme coin trump team
and their page and like that's the agreement that we did so like you guys are overthinking it But from experience, I don't trust these meme coin teams, okay? Because they're always trying to make a, right? Like these people and like, that's exactly why
Melania was launched. Trump had no idea. Melania probably doesn't even know that Melania was Trump
or was is a coin. Trump probably has no idea, right? So it's these meme coin teams that back to extracting are always going to try to make money. So what it looks like to me is that there is probably something shady going on with like the meme coin team.
great for Magic Eden and you know there's just shitty people in the industry and like we can't
forget that um so overall even though it was you know the official meme coin team blah blah blah
blah if you're not aligned with Eric and Barron and Trump it just because and they do talk about the token it just seems scary and you know like
you don't want a scenario where there's like more of a disagreement and then you know the the Trumps
you know Barron and and Eric essentially like denounce their involvement with the Trump token.
And so like, that's the only thing that like, you know, me looking into like a deeper like perspective into that, like, you just and it's not anything about like, you know, that is like, if there is disagreements within the team and trump then like that is like a little
scary in my opinion oh yeah no like that should have never happened no no i mean that's so true
like they're i mean look i don't want to dump on magic eden too much like they are the monad
partner for nfts i think that they have built a generally good product, even though the token has been unfortunate.
But but but yeah, I mean, there was nothing more brutal than yesterday.
Just like watching the like it was like the development of it.
It was like, are they hacked?
And then like Eric, Don Jr. and Barron all tweeted immediately.
and baron all tweeted immediately it was so crazy dude like it was like the first time that baron
It was so crazy, dude.
is like ever tweeted was to be like we are no dude we are not affiliated we had no idea about
this the trump organization did not okay this yeah the trump meme coin team just going rogue
doing their thing i i don't know i guess they have the rights to be able to do this it's unclear
but then the most the most brutal thing dude is just the the magic
team just being like no guys it's real like please like it's real i don't want to and i don't want to
oh man kuro you have the slingshot badge definitely definitely yeah uh they don't pay me anything
but uh you know i'm i'm gonna be straight up with you this is how monad I'm going to be straight up with you.
This is how Monad's not going to be on Slingshot.
Because if you understand how a business operates, there's something that they do where they provide a service for another business, right?
And that's what this is. They provided a service to Trump meme coin team, which is a business. Yeah, I mean, look, man, I think that's totally
fair. I don't disagree at all. It was more just like the comedy of this scenario, man. I think
that it was just like a brutal way for it to play out. I don't think that they were at fault or anything for what they did. I think that they
probably had legitimate business conversations with the Trump meme coin team. I think that it
is maybe just kind of the folly of having like this sort of like rogue authorized element of
like the Trump meme coin team that may or may not have the rights to the
likenesses and name of Trump and everything being able to negotiate business ideas. Like I do think
that that is obviously like problematic and everything. And I just think it's a really
tough spot for, um, for magic Eden to be in. Like, I don i think that it's um yeah just like a tough tough
scenario yeah yeah the the whole that that's just a joke by the way the monad not being on uh
slingshot is a joke by the way i don't i don't have any sort of any sort of power you know i
kb knows how i am i'm a shit disturber. I do. I know. I love you.
No, I don't think it's a Magic Eden problem.
I think it's a meme coin team problem.
And with like the Trump, with like the Trump.
So like that part is like what concerns me the most, like as an investor in like the
Trump coin, right?
right like I still hold some but like um that part is what scares me because of you know just
Like I still hold some.
the reputation that most of these meme coin teams have and like it wasn't like like Magic Eden should
be upset with the meme coin team that that wasn't approved with Ericic and baron because as like a business like the last thing you want are
like the people who are promoting the token to be like you know the main people the reason why
everybody bought the trump coin was because of trump and because of eric and because of baron
because their approval so like their no i totally agree everything everything so that is like the
difference because like the meme coin team like i could give two shits about and so once there's a
misalignment once there's like a miscommunication that's when things become and then they already
proved that with melania like let's not let's not get it twisted the Trump coin the Trump meme coin team already proved their misalignment with the Melania token
so like and then you know you had some time to heal from this and Magic Eden is a trusted wallet
it is a trusted company we all use it every day you know we have monatessen on it like it's a good platform it's a
good business slingshot is good but then you partner with this meme coin team and now they're
jeopardizing your name and your reputation because they can't get their shit together
that's more so the problem that i have and it's a little problematic um and yeah i
honestly like i hope that there's kind of like a restructuring where they keep everything more
internalized especially any sort of business arrangements or like uh partnerships right
because like you guys know how it is in this space
especially people get so far ahead of themselves that they don't consider the
repercussions for their actions right like we've seen it time and time again
and it's just like you know I feel like it's a maturity issue on whoever led the initiative to get into contact with Magic Eden and like, yeah,
it's just, you know so it's kind of like
you know i i think that a good restructuring would help the trumps in keeping and mitigating
any sort of errors like this I think it's it's super
important to to discuss it just so that people have kind of like an insight into
what goes on within the industry it you know because like a lot of people are
more just like how would you say it without being insulting um consumer focused like they're they're just like retail consumers and
they're not like yourself or like Kuru that are like you know running a business right so it's uh
you know it gets kind of messy oh Oh yeah, it does get messy.
It's so true.
And like, I feel like it's just like a laugh rather than cry situation where like you,
like I, we've just all been on the receiving end
of being really excited about something
and it not going the way that you expected.
And that's like on a personal level.
So like on a business level, totally feel for them. Again, like laugh rather than cry, like, which is maybe not the nicest
thing to do. But like, it's almost like, it's just the absurdity of like how it played out.
That is just like, brutal. And so I do really feel for the team, I can only imagine what's
happening. Hopefully good changes come out of this on the, yeah, just like structuring of all this. And,
and at the end of the day, like, probably just best not to think about or to think about like,
with maybe like a friend where you can just have some like support that just the, I look,
I voted for Trump, like, I'm probably like, kind of a supporter at this point, I don't even know.
But like, dude, it is not good, man. It's a bad look. It's just brutal, man. All around. Like it just absolutely sucks. So but it's OK. There's it's
funny. At the end of the day, we'll take the content. So that's really just what it comes
down to. Maybe a little too nihilistic. But but yeah, that's really it. I've got to cut us here,
here, guys. I want to send this. I don't want to compete with with Abdul space with DeFi Act.
guys. I want to send this. I don't want to compete with with Abdul Space with Defi Act.
So we'll wrap up here. This was fun, guys. Thanks for doing morning edition of Kuru Live.
I'll talk to KB. We'll see about when we're going to come back for next week here. It was good to
have a great crew. Good to have lots to talk about this week. Like I said, go over to 0x underscore
Abdul for his DeFi Act space if you're hungry for some more Monad space content.
And yeah, thanks so much for coming out, guys. Really appreciate it. It's been a lot of fun to
hang out today. This is a good topics, man. So yeah, thank you guys for being here.
Have a great rest of your Wednesday, guys. And yeah, we'll see you guys soon.
