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Launching Fast Finality on Soneium
Recorded: April 25, 2025 Duration: 1:12:57Space Recording
Short Summary
In a recent discussion, key players from Astar, EigenLayer, and AdLayer announced the launch of the fast finality layer on Sonium, a significant project aimed at enhancing blockchain capabilities. The collaboration highlights strategic partnerships and the evolving role of tokens, with ASTAR's listing on Uniswap marking a pivotal moment for growth in the ecosystem.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. hello hello good morning everyone good friday i hope you're having a great day uh do do we have
having a great day uh do do we have do we have everyone can you hear me oh how is it going hey
jim great great okay let's wait for like a few more minutes to have more uh people to join the
space luckiest we already have all our speakers for today.
That's going to be an extremely interesting space.
Let's wait a few more minutes.
I will be the moderator and host for today.
I'm Gaius Sama from ASTA Network,
Head of Marketing at ASTA.
And we will shortly introduce all the speakers that we have today starting with NK.
Hello everyone this is NK from StarTail leading growth for Sonium.
A true pleasure to have a great space with ASTAR Eigenlayer and Outlayer team.
space with ASTAR, Eigenlayer and Outlayer team.
Thank you NK. As NK said today the space will be focusing on launching the fast
functionality layer on Sonium and we have amazing guests coming from a different team which have
been collaborating together to make this achievement happen on Sonium.
So we have speakers from Egon Layer, Ad Layer, Astar, Sonium, Startail.
So it's going to be like a really interesting panel.
Talking about Astar, let's introduce the next speaker, Mingxi.
Can you briefly share an introduction about yourself and also Asta?
Hello, I'm Mingxi from Asta. It's a pleasure to be here with our partners from OuterLayer and
EigenLayer. Also SunYun to share a little bit further about what we are building together on
SunYun. On Asta, our mission has always been clear, accelerate Web3 adoption through real-world use cases.
And Sonia is a major leap forward for ASTAR in this direction.
A blockchain developed with Sony Group to bring Web3 infrastructure to the mainstream.
That's also the reason why we are helping Sonia to build out the fast finality layer.
Yeah, happy to be here today. We'll elaborate further details later in the convos.
Thanks a lot, Ming-shi.
Yeah, you're right.
Don't say too much right now.
We need to keep some content and information for later.
Talking about Sonium, let's introduce Kevin,
the speaker from Sonium.
Hey, G, thank you very much. I'm Kevin Workumon,
Deafwell for Sonium at StarTail. I'm happy to be here today.
It's a pleasure. Yeah, looking forward to this conversation
and I'm really excited actually. Thank you.
Thank you, Kevin. And now it's time to also welcome to this conversation and i'm really excited actually thank you thank you kevin and now
it's time to also welcome our dear partners um let's let's start with uh nader
hey yes my name is nader i'm the director of developer relations at eigenlabs
uh the team behind the eigenlayer protocol and i I'm really, I would say, excited for this product
to be just coming into existence and for this panel
so we can kind of dive into some of the things that are happening
and what it means.
So thanks for having me.
Thank you, Nada.
It's great for us also to have you with us today.
And I heard you are on your way to Token.
So we are actually really lucky to find a time
which you are available on your trip, right?
Yeah, I'm actually in a layover right now,
connecting on my way there.
So I had like two or three hours.
So the time worked out perfectly.
And I appreciate you all working with my schedule.
Well, yeah yeah that's
that's fate right okay uh let's move on to the last uh guest that we have today amrit can you
introduce yourself and also i clear yeah of course thank you again for organizing this uh my name is
amrit i handle operations at all clear um and alllair is essentially started off as a RAS service
to help people deploy rollups.
But over the last, I would say, year or so,
since Eigenlayer came into existence
and we have been deeply involved with the Eigenlayer ecosystem
and, of course, building AVSs,
running operators for different AVSs out there.
And, of course, creator of Mark,
which is a fast-finding AVS
that we have been building very closely with Sonium team.
Nice, perfect. Thanks a lot, Amrit. That's going to be one of the
main topics we will be discussing today, the MAC and the Fast Finality layer for Sonium.
All right, perfect. So we have introduced all our speakers. I hope everyone is all right and you have already like an amazing day.
I know it's the weekend, so probably you have already like some plans,
but let's get started with this space.
So before deep diving into Fast Finality Layer,
let's make sure we are also using concepts which can be understood by everyone on the
space today. I know we have a really big chat with GigaBrain on the tech, especially on
Ethereum today with us. So let's make sure when we explain things, they can be like understand by everyone on the space, including myself.
I'm not a tech guy, so I know it's going to be like extremely complex topic.
So let's keep this in mind before starting.
All right, let's start from the beginning then.
I have a first question for NK.
NK, can you tell us more about like what was the original idea behind launching the Fast Finality layer for Sonium?
How did you arrive to collaborate with AdLayer and Egon to make this happen?
For sure. For those who are unfamiliar with Sonium, Sonium is Ethereum layer 2 blockchain powered by OP stack and also a part of the superchain
ecosystem.
And given we are layer 2 settling in Ethereum, we are relying on the security for the blockchain
to the Ethereum, the most decentralized and secure blockchain network that currently exists
as a work computer.
But at the same time, the difficulty of the Ethereum due to its decentralized nature is definality.
It normally takes more than 10 minutes for the Ethereum layer
two transactions to obtain the finality settling in the Ethereum
because of the finality limitations of the Ethereum
to preserve the certain level of the decentralization.
Users in the Ethereum cannot be certain that their transactions
are approved in the Ethereum layer one as a final state until they wait for the 10 minutes.
In practice, given there are not many cases where the Ethereum blocks are re-orked, there
aren't a lot of cases where it is actually impacting the user's activities. But there are certain considerations
like the cross-chain operations. Whenever we are transacting assets from Sonium to the other
blockchains, whether it's a layer 2 or other blockchains, people need to wait for the
finality of the Ethereum to ensure that these transactions are secure enough. And for that
consideration, we were thinking about the ideas how we can improve user experiences and also at the same time developer experiences to overcome limitations of the Ethereum's relatively slow finality, while not compromising the security and the decentralized nature of the Ethereum as well, we determined to work with the eigenlayer and altlayer to launch a fast
final layer. And the reason why we worked, we decided to work with the eigenlayer was, of course,
number one, because of the security that the tech it presents. And number two, a lot of like the past
cases where eigenlayer already managed to successfully provide the infrastructure for the
other layer two and different blockchains
to provide additional layer of security for best vitality or other purposes.
And the reason why we decided to work with the Alt layer, of course, number one,
there are great trackers of successfully working with the multiple different
initiatives that's related to the role of AVS.
And also at the same time, number two, as a Sonium,
we are already utilizing a lot of our development resources
to operate the blockchain itself.
And therefore it is difficult for us to operate
all the other infrastructure that is composable
with our blockchain by ourselves.
And we wanted to work with a reliable partner who we thought that
Outlayer would be a great candidate. So these were the backgrounds behind why we decided
to build it best by Outlayer and why we ended up working with it to build it.
Perfect. That's awesome. NK, thank you so much. I think it's a great overview already
of what is this collaboration coming from,
and also the goal of launching the Fast Finality layer.
But now let's go into more details,
especially regarding developers.
We may have some developers today with us developers
on Sonium or the layer two.
So I'm also interested to go over what are like the benefits of the fast finality layer
for developer for sonium developers and how they can use it and i'd like to invite kevin to tell
us more about this sure thank you g um yeah maybe like i think nk already spoke about quite a few
things but maybe let's let me give like a few things, but maybe let me give a high-level
technical summary of that, of that functionality layer.
So essentially what we're launching together with AltLayer and EigenLayer's help is a decentralized
verification layer that gives DApps and Sonium a way to know with strong economic guarantees
that a transaction is final even before it's fully finalized on Ethereum.
So as NK said, we are reliant upon this finality on Ethereum, which takes about 13 minutes.
But actually, we also have a soft finality because we are an OP stack L2, which is
essentially when the sequence includes the transaction in an L2 block.
But still, we need to post this on Ethereum, right?
And just about like a 13 minute window can be a pain
for like real time
at the DMS like games or some financial applications.
So this is essentially a fast functionality layer comes in
and it works like in
like an autonomous verified service.
AVS that is a concept introduced by Eigenlayer.
And this means that we have independent operators verifying the correctness of Sonium state
transition.
And it's very important for our developers, because then we have an additional layer of
watchdogs checking that our sequencer is actually playing by the rules. And if something's
wrong, this can be challenged. And these operators are like,
they have skin in the game, right? They are reslaking assets
like Eve and Esther. So misbehaving can get them slashed
and just provides like an additional layer of economic
security. So essentially, like to summarize the fast finality layer gives developers
a fast and secure signals that transactions are actually good to go even before ethereum finality
is actually there
okay thank you kevin and um can you also explain how the developers
in Sonium can actually use the fast functionality there?
What would be like the process for them?
Sure, sure.
Actually, the integration is super straightforward.
And it's also like one of the, I think,
major benefits of this application
because developers can actually access the fast functionality
through just like a dedicated RPC service
that supports the standard Ethereum JSON RPC API.
And this means if you're already building on Sonium, you don't really have to learn
anything new or change your interface in a big way.
You just have to kind of direct your queries to this new endpoint and wait for
confirmation by FFL and that's really about it.
So it's very straightforward for developers.
Okay, that's actually amazing to hear.
So this means the experience and the process for developers, like you said, really straightforward.
And I guess this is because of the mechanism built by Outlayer, specifically behind this FastFinality layer.
And I think it's an amazing transition for going on to the next speaker.
Amrit, can you introduce Altlayer and also explain a bit more in details what is the Masha?
Actually, what is Masha? Because even myself, I don't even know what's the dos,
this sentence is standing for.
Yeah, sure, sure.
So again, so all clear,
as I was mentioning earlier in the introduction is,
we started off as a RAS service.
And for those who are not very familiar with RAS,
it's short for roll up as a service.
And what we do as a Rollup as a Service provider
is people come to us and say,
hey, we want to have a custom rollup designed for us
because we want to use OP stack
and we have certain requirements from the app
or from the business that you want to run the rollup
and could you help customize this?
And because these clients don't necessarily
have all the familiarity with how the sequencer work,
how the internal protocol of OP stack or any other chain stack works, we actually do that work for them.
So all they have to do is they have to just tell us what they're actually looking for,
and we basically spin up the chain for them so that they can go focus on app building
rather than worrying about, hey, how does the actual infrastructure works?
So we take away all that pain so that developers can actually go to market quite quickly.
So that is basically what roll-ups do today, or what RAS like us or RAS partners like us we do.
Unfortunately, roll-ups, the way they exist today, they are not feature-ready or feature-complete in many ways.
For example, up until two, three months ago, an stack or if you'd launch a chain using Optimism stack,
it does not allow you to have this security framework
that's called fraud proofs that allows that,
you know, make sure that the rollup
is actually operating correctly.
And so there are things that are kind of missing
in the rollup world.
And the idea was that we would bring these systems,
complement those missing features through AVS.
So, for example, you could imagine right now all these systems, they require, let's say, a centralized node.
That's called a sequencer that takes transactions in and then orders them.
And almost every single rollup out there, apart from maybe a couple, they all use the centralized sequence.
And that's not ideal, right?
And so the idea is you could potentially build a decentralized network
that does this ordering of transactions. So when a user sends a transaction, someone
has to say, okay, your transaction goes first before someone else's. And who does that ordering?
And that's basically the job of the sequencer. And the idea is you can build an AVS
that does the sequencing for you. The second, for example, is the Fast-Fanty AVS.
You could build an AVS that actually helps you with faster confirmations with economic backing. So this is basically what we
have done. So we basically, we're getting feedback from clients and say, you know, yeah, we like
roll-ups and the way they exist today, but, you know, there are these missing features and how to
fix them. And so that ended up becoming the AVS that we built. So the AVS that, you know, we're
discussing in the Sonium context is this fast finality AVS,
and we call it from a product name perspective,
we call it Mach.
So it's basically the same thing.
So Mach is just the product name of,
it's spelled M-A-C-H, like the sound, Mach.
And it basically is the product name
for a fast finality AVS that we build for clients,
for example, for Sonium.
Now, I won't go into deeper details of how actually FastFight works because, you know,
NK and Kevin have already discussed that a lot. I'll talk more about how it helps beyond just
technical benefits. So how does it actually help the broader ecosystem in some way, the ecosystem
around Sonium? And so let me take you back maybe, I don't know, six, eight months ago or maybe a year
ago when people were saying, hey, you know, I have this rollup that I've launched using
OP stack or Arbitrum Orbit or whatnot.
And I do have a token that I have associated with that project.
How can you use my token?
And the first obvious way to do it was to use the token as a gas token for that holdup.
So instead of using, let's say, on Arbitrum or Optimism, you use ETH as your gas fee,
you'd replace that by your own token.
And it seems like a good use case, right? Because it gives some utility to your token,
and it becomes essential for the protocol to actually work,
because if you don't have the token, you actually will not be able to send transactions on chain but people realize that yeah it's it's it's a good use case
it creates a bit of a bit of a usage for my token but actually it it worsens the overall user
experience for end users because everyone kind of used to um you know paying gas in eth and there
are many chains where you could use account abstraction or whatnot.
So kind of that part where you have to go and acquire a custom token for that gas kind of goes away, kind of creates more pain point. The second challenge was that people realized that if you
have this, if you use your own custom token as a gas token, it, at some point, let's say you are,
it's a, it's a, let's say, a sonium, at some point you have to post transaction on Ethereum, and so you have to pay some fee to Ethereum.
Or let's say if you're using a DA layer, you have to pay some fees to the DA layer.
And where does that fee come from?
That would come from the fees that users are paying to the sequencer.
So users would pay some transaction fee.
And that fee, which is being paid in the custom token, will have to be converted into ETH to be able to spend or pay for
the fees that you owe to Ethereum, for example. And in a way, it also creates a constant sell
pressure for the token in some way, right? You cannot actually pay to Ethereum in any other
token. So you have to pay ETH. And so you actually have to sell unless you have to put your own
token on ETH and use that own E only to pay for your cost or DA cost.
That's a different story. But in the end, there has to be some
conversion between your token that you're collecting in gas and you sell them for ETH to be
able to pay to ETH fees. So that's one of the main downsides of using your own custom token
as a utility. The other pain point is like, in the end, you want your gas token to be,
a gas fees to be actually quite cheap
because you don't want it to be more costly than the same.
So if you're hoping that,
if you're using your gas token, custom gas token,
then if you're hoping that it's going to actually
drive the demand for this,
it's actually not going to happen
because your fees will be very, very, very low.
So the point that I'm trying to get to is that this idea that,
hey, using your custom token for gas in a rollup is actually a bad idea.
And so people were thinking about, okay, how do you actually,
where can my token get used?
In a rollup model, which is in many ways are centralized,
in the sense that the sequence is centralized,
there are a bunch of validators that are somewhat centralized and so on.
And this is where ABS comes into play,
and this is where FastPineT comes into play as well, where, for example, in case of Sonium,
you could use ASTAR token to secure alongside ETH-based asset.
And this is where another probably will chip in later on.
But the idea is you can stake your assets to be able to give this economic security for this AVS.
And this is where ASTAR can play a role.
And so it creates a sync for the token as well.
Beyond all the technical benefits, it actually helps.
When a token holds us, it helps the ecosystem by creating a sync
that is otherwise not possible in the classical roll-up infrastructure.
That, I would say, is one of the very cool benefits of,
or broader benefits of having some sort of an AVS
like the Sparse Fiety Layer that benefits your token.
So that, I would would say is definitely the other interesting bit is that you could use this as AVS in a way as a to feed into a bridge.
So imagine let's say you have this rollup that operates and that settles on Ethereum
and you have to withdraw assets from the roll-up to underlying chain, which is Ethereum.
Normally, you have to go through this canonical bridge, which has some withdrawal period, right?
But there are other bridges that exist, like hop protocols and external third-party bridges that do not have any withdrawal period or withdrawal time.
And the way they basically work is they say, hey, someone who has a lot of liquidity is going to, or there's a liquidity
pool of some kind, and they are, you can withdraw your money instantly through that liquidity pool.
So someone is going to be upfront that whatever you're withdrawing, someone is going to upfront
that right away. And when this withdrawal period actually ends, this is when he will collect the
money. So he's taking that risk that some transactions or your transaction will actually
potentially may fail or may not be valid when it actually goes through there.
And so they're taking that risk.
But against that, you actually have to pay a fee.
But you actually get a very fast withdrawal.
So, again, the other benefit of this fast-party AVS is that you can actually plug it into an external third-party bridges that work with liquidity, and so it actually benefits you from faster, much faster
withdrawal, like instant withdrawal, as long as there's enough liquidity in the ecosystem.
The other cool thing is that it allows, from ecosystem perspective, it allows you to expand
your broader ecosystem in many ways. So for example, if you're just running, let's say,
roll-up, maybe you're using a RAS provider to run your sequ example, if you're just running, let's say, rollup,
maybe you're using a RAS provider to run your sequencer.
And so it's somewhat the major player that you're interacting with
is this RAS provider, and that's it.
The moment you open it up as an AVS,
now your rollup, which is attached with this AVS,
now we'll have operators, right?
So for example, you could bring the likes of blog, daemon, figment,
and other ecosystem operators, and they would have operators, right? So for example, you could bring the likes of Logdaemon, Figment and other ecosystem operators,
and they would have then the right incentive
to actually promote your project in many ways.
So there's also this angle of you actually
expand your ecosystem by bringing external operators
that is otherwise not possible in a classical role of model.
So yeah, I didn't want to go into deep into the technical bits,
but the idea was to explain to the committee
that there are many benefits that you get by attaching an AVS like this FastMighty beyond just the pure benefits of FastMighty.
It actually helps you grow the ecosystem. It has benefits to your token in many ways as well.
Thank you, Amrit. I think you raised a really interesting topic and ideas on how we can collaborate around AVS.
But you mentioned something about operators. I'd like to go a bit more into details about this,
because I believe it's one of the key components of the Fast Finality layer on Sonium.
At the moment, we have six operators. Can you tell us more how someone can become an operator
and also support Sonium? And what's the benefit of doing this?
It's quite straightforward. You come and join, you can contact us. Of course we are fronting all the operators
service on behalf of Sonium. So if you want to become an operator,
we have a docs link that we can,
I think we'll share through Twitter and so on.
So there's a docs link that you can go
and you'd see the instructions that you could follow
and you can come and join.
There's still a white listing mechanism
that we have put in place.
So it's not fully permissionless,
but we definitely are open to onboarding new operators
as and when they arrive.
And all you need, in terms of requirement,
hardware requirements is actually not that much.
And we have all sorts of EVSs that we are supporting
in the past and all our operators
have been in touch with us.
So yeah, if you're an operator
and if you want to get involved, come and talk to us
and you can also look at the dev docs
that explains the requirements and what you need to run to be able to secure
Sonium's pass by delay.
Awesome, thank you. So yeah, so if you are interested to run an operator, please reach
out to Altair, they will be more than happy to onboard you guys. You also mentioned something
about like many things related to token and that, again, a really good transition for the next speaker.
Let's discuss now with Eganlayer and Adair what is the role of the token
and the economy in securing Fastfinality layer, and especially Eganlayer.
Eganlayer seems to be the infrastructure on which everything else is built on.
So I want to explore a bit more of this.
Yeah, sure.
I can just give an overview of what EganLayer is and how people are using it.
When EganLayer first launched, it was really mostly talked about in the sense of restaking.
really mostly talked about in the sense of like restaking.
Because of the way that we had to build out the network,
it was kind of like a long process.
The ultimate goal was to have a pooled economic security
for developers and companies to build out services
that don't have to bootstrap their own economic security.
But in order for that economic security to exist,
we needed to have some value accrual
within the protocol to then leverage for that. So to kind of bootstrap the initial product,
the Eigenlayer protocol didn't have ADSs, it didn't have developers, it didn't have anything,
it only had re-staking, which is essentially allowing
people who are already staking their ETH to then restake it into Eigenlayer to secure additional
services and earn additional yield. But now that we have enough economic security to power thousands
of services at this point, we've now moved on to the next step,
which is enabling services
like the one we're talking about now
to be built and for developers
to be able to experiment
and try out new things
and essentially use Eigenlayer
for the original vision
of what it was there for.
That's where we are today.
Developers are building within dozens
of different service verticals at this point.
We see a lot of ZK, we see a lot of, you know,
I would say UX types of improvements
by enabling faster or cheaper, you know,
I would say systems, similar to what we're talking about now
with faster validators.
There are a lot of things within just the roll-up ecosystem in general
that people are building.
We see a lot of AI stuff,
a lot of co-processors.
You know, there's just so much
that's kind of like being built.
But the general role of eigenlayer there
is essentially to allow developers
to leverage the economic security
that is already there as opposed to bootstrapping it themselves. So you kind of remove a lot of
the work and overhead for building out new features and new services. And you can focus
on your core business logic or your core product. So at this moment, we have a few hundred different
services that are being built towards mainnet.
We're tracking around 700 or 800 different services in general that are being built.
But really, I think if we distill it down, I think we have around 200 that we consider that will probably be hitting mainnet within the next 6 to 12 months or so.
And Eigenlayer was the fastest growing developer ecosystem
in 2024, and we're trying to kind of continue
on that route this year.
So that's kind of a general idea of like what Eigenlayer is
and kind of where we are today.
Okay, thank you, Nader.
And I believe you do have a really busy roadmap, right?
I know you had a major update last week with the slashing.
Can you tell us more on what you are actually focusing on and how this is also
impacting search services as the Fast Finality layer for Solent?
Yes. The two things that we really maintain at Eigenlayer are the Eigenlayer protocol,
as well as EigenDA, the data availability layer that a lot of rollups and blockchains
kind of use to scale.
The final piece for the original, I would say roadmap for Eigenlayer was slashing, was
the final thing that had not been shipped.
So the protocol went live in April of 2024,
and we shipped Slashing just a couple of weeks ago.
So the protocol is now feature complete.
So the general vision of what can potentially be done
is kind of like now realized with Slashing.
We have a handful of ADSs going live with Slashing as well.
And now that we've shipped Slashing, we're now focused on, really, I would say a couple of different things.
First of all, EigenDA is a service that we build and we maintain.
This is not something we really talked about publicly, but we just hit internally on EigenDA v2.
EigenDA V2, we were hitting in the range of like 40 to 60 megabytes per second, which is two to
four X more throughput than the current version of EigenDA. We were shooting for 30 megabytes per
second with our V2, but it looks like we're going to be going pretty far beyond that. And that's
going to be coming out very soon. And then ultimately, we're trying to hit 100 megabytes per second by the end of the year.
So EigenDA is a big focus for us.
The Eigenlayer protocol, we're really, really focused
around developer experience and just making it easier
for new developers to come in and build and ship to mainnet.
There's a decent amount of complexity around
dealing with operators and operator sets
and configuring how all that works.
There's a decent amount of complexity
around integrating slashing.
There are two types of slashing, by the way.
There's subjective and intersubjective slashing.
I'm sorry, objective and intersubjective.
Objective slashing is basically just slashing
as we know it in the Ethereum protocol.
You can slash based on some deterministic output from,
for instance, some consensus mechanism or something happening within the validators
or operators.
Intersubjective slashing is more complicated because it's more based on kind of like, I
would say, social consensus.
So what we're doing now is we're really, really focusing on making the implementation of slashing 100x
or even 1,000x easier.
And we have a lot of really exciting stuff coming there
as well.
So developer experience, making slashing easier,
and just making building AVS is just much easier
is kind of like a big focus for us.
OK, understood.
And if we jump back on focusing on the Egon layer protocol.
So Egon is built on economic security based mostly on ETH and LST,
but you are also supporting custom tokens.
And in the case of the Fastfinality layer for Sonium,
we are talking about like a dual token staking
using it and we stake it,
and also the ASTAR token.
I want to know more from you guys
if you are going to continue exploring
supporting custom tokens and what's the challenges
and benefits of this? Are you saying for Eigenlayer? Yes. Yes, so Eigenlayer is now completely wide
open. Anyone can add their token and make it part of the protocol within 30 seconds. They can just
go to the smart contract or they can run a script and essentially add their token as part of the protocol within 30 seconds. They can just go to the smart contract, or they can run a script and essentially add their token as part of the eigenlayer protocol.
And then it's up to the ABS to decide which tokens that they want to support.
So when we first launched, yes, it was just ETH. Now it's completely permissionless, and we have
tons of tokens supported. We have a lot of a lot of tons of tokens supported we have a lot of abs's
that are experimenting and uh supporting different tokens as well i don't know enough about how sonium
has decided to implement that so maybe if someone here has more context that would be kind of
interesting maybe well that's actually like a good uh transitions good transition because Mingxi will actually speak a bit more about
the role of the ASTAR token in the Sonium Fast Finality layer.
Mingxi, can you tell us more about what is the role of the ASTAR here in this collaboration and how the token is evolving for more governance,
layer one focused token to a security asset
and staking asset for Soniam?
Yes, thank you.
I think many of the audience here today
has actually been engaged in ASTAR community
since the Polkadot Edge. So yes, originally,
our staff was introduced as a governance and the utility token within the ASTAR network,
the Polkadot power chain, powering staking, ecosystem incentives and protocol governance.
However, from things I think one to two years ago, we realized that building a blockchain, building one single ecosystem itself, it's not enough for Web3 to achieve real world adoption.
Even if we build one successful network, which has been one of the largest parachains in the product ecosystem and the largest blockchain ecosystem in Japan.
We needed stronger distribution into real world economy,
including partnerships with major enterprises, access to consumers, and infrastructure designed
for practical uses to really have Web3
to achieve real world adoption.
That actually led us to initiate Asta evolution,
a strategic shift where Asta is used
not only inside Asta network,
but across multiple initiatives
aimed to accelerate Web3's real world adoption,
starting with Sony, considering the relationship
between Asta, StarTail, and Sony Group historically.
So in the new phase, Asta is no longer just a token of the single ecosystem of single
Asta network.
It becomes the fundamental asset that powers the initiatives that can bring Web3 to the real world,
that can power infrastructure to deliver better UX,
better developer experience,
such as the fast finality layer on Sonium,
and to enhance the interoperability.
For example, if developers are going to build
cross-chain applications on Sonium,
with the fast finality layer,
the developer experience and the user experience
can be largely enhanced.
So this leads to our end goal of Asta as an asset
to power the initiatives that can help
to accelerate Web3 real world adoption
and to build up the positive feedback loop,
which can eventually bring the reward
and incentives back to the ASTA community.
Thanks, Ming-Shi.
Can you also explain to us what is the move of ASTA being expanded behind ASTA ecosystem
and SONIAM,, landing on the ecosystem.
All right, I think she has currently an issue with this mic.
NK, can you take over?
Sure. Sorry, what was the question?
The move of ASTA expanding behind the Asta ecosystem
and the Sunim ecosystem,
and also targeting the border ecosystem
specifically with PASPINEL.
Ah, he's back. Mingxi is back.
Which part was the last part that you heard?
Or is there a new question?
Yeah, I was lost for a bit.
My next question was about what is the move of ASTAR expanding beyond ASTAR L1 and Sonia also by landing on Ethereum and specifically in the ecosystem,
but also the recent listing on Uniswap.
Yes, Asta's listing on Uniswap is more like a functional move,
which we have to do in order to realize Asta and Sonia's multi-chain vision.
in order to realize the ASTAR and Sonia's multi-chain vision.
Basically, bridging ASTAR to Ethereum, it first gave us the ability to really have ASTAR added
to the eigenlayer as one of the staking assets and also helps users on Sonia, especially Ethereum
users, to have an easier way to actually have ASTAR assets and to stake there for the
easier way to actually have ASTAR assets and to stick there for the
Sunnium Fast Finality layer. And the overall vision for us on the ASTAR side is just to
connect between ecosystems and also to build the ecosystem which can really achieve real-world
adoption of Web3 technologies.
And specifically if talking about the fast finality layer,
the fast finality layer, one of the major use case
that we can see is actually related
to the multi-chain vision of Sonium.
For example, when users have multiple networks, for example, when we are facing an era with
a lot of different blockchains with different security and trust assumptions, for example,
developer is going to build an application that is connecting between Asta and another
blockchain, connecting Sonium with another blockchain. They have different trust assumptions on Sonium
and on other networks.
And having this fast finality layer
can help the developers to build out the application
for important cross chain functions
without having to wait for the finality on the L1 site.
And by this approach, ASTAC contributing there as one of the staking assets for the fast finality
layer and also contributing to the fast finality layer. We see it as a way to help to realize the
multi-chain vision. Okay, thanks. Thank you a lot, Ming-Chi, for your inputs. So this is actually perfect
to wrap up this topic. We covered everything related to fast finality layer in this collaboration.
So benefits for Sonium developers with faster finality, but also benefits for the ASTAR ecosystem and the ASTAR token holder which can
participate in the security and infrastructure of Sonium by staking their asset, ASTAR token and
other assets on the fast finality layer on Ethereum and contributing to the growth of the ecosystem.
Ethereum and contributing to the growth of the ecosystem.
Now that we have finished discussing about this topic,
I want to use also this AMA and opportunity today.
We have many interesting people to discuss a bit more
with like an open panel on topics related to Ethereum.
We are, all of us here and all the protocols here,
building on top of Ethereum.
So there is a few major updates arriving on Ethereum
which will affect everyone.
And I want to open the first topic about the Pectra upgrade.
So the Pectra upgrade, a major upgrade coming to Ethereum is scheduled to be launched on the 7th of May, if I'm correct, in two weeks,
which is combining Prague and Electra update and introducing several significant improvements, like Smart Wallet, significant improvement like smart wallet improving staking flexibility improving scalability with
blobs and lower fees let's start with nadia because as as i mentioned spectra is going to
change the the staking model on on ethereum and i want to to hear from you what is the impact for EgonLayer
and how you will address this and also your perspective on Petra upgrades.
Yeah, we are always following very closely all of the L1 upgrades, including Petra.
Our protocol team plans ahead and essentially has everything ready to go whenever these types of updates go live.
We have a very, very, I would say, the most, I would say vicious, I would almost call it a security process in terms of how many audits we go through and how many eyes we get on our contracts and how many iterations of audits that we kind of go through as well to go along with these upgrades.
And that's something that's been probably the main focus.
If I really had to distill a lot of the work that's done in Eigenlayer, the number one focus would probably be around security.
one focus would probably be around security. So with that in mind, it's really great to see
a lot of the upgrades that happen in the ecosystem. I know a lot of times that
they get criticized for how slow things move, but as I believe it was Amrit mentioned at the very beginning or someone mentioned at the very beginning of the discussion,
Ethereum is the most secure smart contract blockchain in the whole world by a pretty large margin for a combination of things. But the way that it stayed that way was by not compromising on security at the, I would say, expense of security,
adding things that add maybe performance enhancements, trying to kind of keep up with other networks
that probably are not going to be competing in the same way,
especially now that we have kind of like the roll-up centric roadmap and networks like Eigenlayer that enable more performant operations
on top of the L1. But you do see this discussion popping up now around more vertical scalability
within the ETH L1, which is kind of a really interesting topic to keep up with as well.
So that's kind of a general like thoughts around, you know, how we approach things. Again, we're
always, you know, looking very, very far out for any protocol upgrades to make sure Eigenlayer
you know, functions, but most importantly functions securely.
Yeah, you are completely right, and I'm aligned with you.
A slow process is not a bad thing for Ethereum when it comes to upgrade
because there are so many stakeholders, protocols,
dApps, users which need to be aligned
and ready for such upgrades,
especially when those upgrades are introducing
like breaking change.
We don't want, there is too much at stake on Ethereum
when it comes to utilities, but also liquidity to just do upgrade really fast.
So slow process, more cautious, it's a good thing for the ecosystem.
And Pectra is a good example of an upgrade, which is also introducing a lot of different elements at once
lot of different elements at once to make sure everyone is ready and will benefit from such
upgrades. Amrit, can you tell us more about this upgrade from an ArcLayer perspective and what is
this impacting for ArcLayer? Yeah, I mean, I would say broadly,
is impacting for Atleo? Yeah I mean I would say broadly at a high level there are three different
people or three different communities that get benefit from this upgrade right one is the end
user right so if you are using Ethereum maybe directly the mainnet so let's say on transferring
assets around or if you are using a roll-up so in the sense that you are a user for the roll-up
not directly for the Ethereum L1,
you still get lots of benefits.
So for example, one of the main features
that's coming up is the smart wallet feature, right?
So the EIP 7702.
So it basically simplifies account abstraction and whatnot.
So that's a very direct benefit that you get
from this upgrade,
which is like, you know,
the way you transact, the gas fee
and all of that kind of becomes much better. The second thing is your fees would become lower
because the blob capacity that's being increased, right? So if you're using, again, directly with
a, or even a rollout as a user, then, you know, that gas fee actually would go lower.
So these, I would say, two direct benefits to end users.
So end users like you and me who are not developers, let's say,
but who are just using Ethereum or any of the rollups out there.
For developers, of course, it also gives a lot more flexibility
because now you have the smart word features
you can actually build interesting things.
So you have some people that are building
different kinds of features where, you know,
not just about kind of gas being paid by the app, but you could build other things directly through this smart
wallet feature that's coming up. For those who are building, you know, roll-ups, they actually
can now afford cheaper gas. They don't have to worry about paying too much fees to Ethereum. So if you are a roller builder,
then actually, you know,
you actually have a,
hopefully will have a better revenue
in that sense.
And of course, then there's a validator business
that's in a way impacts,
you know, projects like Eigenlay
directly or indirectly,
which is like you,
you're no longer limited by 32 ETH.
It allows you to now go beyond that. I forgot the exact
number. It's I think 2000 something. But basically the idea is like previously for every 32 ETH,
essentially there's one node that has to be spun, one validator node that has to be spun.
Now that requirement has to say, let's say if you have 64 ETH, basically effectively you're running
Now that requirement has to say,
let's say if you have 64 ETH,
basically effectively you're running two validators in Sumsys.
And now that has been lifted.
So now you, again, I forgot,
I think it's 2000 something or 200 something.
But basically the idea is like if you...
Yeah, it's 2048, exactly.
And so the idea is now you don't have to do that.
So it actually simplifies a lot of management.
And by the way, you could see that in many ways, right?
Which is, if you look at the Eigenly ecosystem in particular,
and you look at the LRTs that are involved in the Eigenly ecosystem,
you'd see an LRT usually works with a certain operator.
So for example, figment or block demand, so on.
You'd see different, you'd see, if you look at this LRT,
you would see Figment1, Figment2, Figment3, Figment4 and so on.
So they're, in a way, it's the same entity running,
let's say 5,000 nodes and they're required to do so
because each 32Eth only, you can only do say 32Eth
per validator, that kind of goes away.
So it kind of simplifies the architecture and so on.
And so yeah, these are the changes that you see
from our perspective directly.
We, of course, we have to kind of upgrade
the rollup clients that we run.
So a lot of clients are using OP stack and so on.
They have to be compliant with the upgrade that comes on.
So we have been upgrading for quite a while,
some of the test stuff that we've been doing,
but eventually, yeah, we have to prepare for the upgrade that happened.
So yeah, I would say we are impacted, of course, because we have clients that use, that have rollups,
but I would say it more generally impacts users, developers, and validators as well.
Talking about layer two being ready for upgrades, Kevin, can you tell us more because this upgrade
is also improving the scalability of layer two by doubling the capacity of the block, data per block.
What is the benefit for Sonium and is Sonium also ready for this upgrade?
for for for sonium and uh is sonium also ready for for this upgrade yes thank you jean that's
a very important question obviously um and as sonium is a op stack layer two um we are like
a little behind ethereum itself but very close closely like catching up to them very fast so
all of these um upgrades uh vector upgrades that are relevant
to l2s will also come to sonium very soon um actually we're already like preparing for the
upgrade on the super chain and um yeah so um as other speakers have already said um there are
quite a few interesting upgrades especially the blob throughput um increasement which will um
make like the space that our tools are competing for on the l1 a little bit more relaxed and um
will most likely also help reducing gas fees and um increase the speed also. So this is a huge improvement for developers also on Sonium because they will get better
performance of their DApps essentially.
And then of course there's EIP 7702 that will enable externally owned accounts to also act as a smart contract wallet for a certain period of time.
So that's also something that's very interesting.
And yeah, Sonium is fully compatible with that.
Thank you, Kevin.
Let's discuss more about the growth aspect now with uh mk um i know
this uh like mentioned by uh kevin and other speakers this uh update will also improve
drastically the the the experience for uh for the the users but also for the dabs by reducing the
the gases i know this has been already like a challenge in the past on Sonium. We've seen
like some gas spike on some days where the blobs were packed on L1. So can you tell us
more from your perspective on the benefit that you see and the impact on sonium in time of growth of this update oh sure uh as other uh so so basically uh
as a part of the layer two um ecosystem builder always having a more roll-up centric roadmap from
the ethereum side is definitely helpful for the growth of the sonium as a blockchain um now that
ethereum is uh becoming more scalable uh while not compromising the intrinsic security and
level of the decentralization that it has been obtaining for the past several years
we are very excited to see the upgrade coming in for the mainnet so that we would be able to
accommodate more transactions and user activities without the a lot of fluctuations in the Gatsby.
Yeah, so looking forward for the update.
We believe that the more the network gets scalable,
the more users and applications will be able to adopt the Sonium for its goal.
Can you tell us more also from a startle perspective
about the smart wallet as part of this subject?
Because I believe one of the companies of StarTale is also focusing on account abstraction.
Yes, for sure. StarTale group has been working on the account abstraction infrastructure toolkit for the developers in the Sony ecosystem. Given Sony ecosystem's eventual direction would be to adopt the Web2 users or the mainstream
users for the blockchain and Web3.
And therefore we have been building out the AA infrastructure for the time being, working
with the multiple ecosystem projects, adopting that as a fundamental layer for the time being, working with the multiple ecosystem projects, I'm adopting that as a fundamental layer for the user onboard toolkit for them.
And in future, we are looking to implement the global wallet for the Sonium
using the Startel Cloud Services infrastructure.
And Spectra update, as we are aware of, is going to be implementing more AA adaptability for the EVM and Ethereum ecosystem.
And therefore, it is aligned with our roadmap to have a user access point using the AA for the multiple ecosystem projects in the Sonium, using the StartTrails Global Wallet for the Sonium ecosystem.
multiple ecosystem projects in Dishonium using the StartTrails
of Global Wallet for Dishonium ecosystem.
And we are really excited to onboard more Web2 users
across the ecosystem's projects, whether it's a Web2 product
launching on the blockchain or Web3 native projects
launching on Dishonium to be seamlessly interconnected
through the one wallet infrastructure
that is provided by the AA infrastructure that
is powered by StarTik after the Petra update.
Thank you NK. And I'm realizing that we are arriving at the end of the AMA.
There is a few more minutes left and another flight to catch if I'm not wrong to go to Dubai.
So let's wrap up the AMA.
Can I have a closing statement from each speaker?
And starting with Nadia.
NADIA FITZPATRICKI- Yes, on my end to start.
Nadea, are you here?
Hey, can you hear me?
Yes.
Okay.
Sorry about that.
I must have had some connection issues.
Well, I think it's really interesting to see a company like Sony dipping their toes into the space for a bunch of reasons.
I think obviously they understand distribution and they have an understanding of like UX.
They have an understanding of like product market fed, experimentation. It's just interesting to see these extremely successful
traditional companies dipping their toes into the space.
And I think when we talk about onboarding,
a large number of users that haven't traditionally been in the space,
it's going to be a lot of different things that are happening
to kind of make that happen.
And this sort of thing is probably one of the ways
that we're going to be able to kind of bring more people in
because they can hopefully build interesting and better
products.
And I'm just excited to kind of see where this all goes.
Thanks, Nadia.
You are completely right.
The goal of most of the Web3 project has been to always reach mass adoption and working with Sonium is exactly the plan.
Let's move on to Amrit. Can you tell us your closing statement as well, please? Yeah, I'm looking forward to, you know, Sony has just barely gone live.
We're looking forward to what we can do beyond just launching it.
So the idea is like developers should be able to access
and use the RPC endpoint that would give them stronger guarantees
than what's available today by sequences.
Potentially it could be used for, you know, for bridges, potentially even by exchanges.
So for example, if you want to withdraw assets directly from an exchange to a Sonium chain,
or from a Sonium chain to some other base layer like Ethereum, you could use that for
those things. I'm looking forward to and excited about where we can take this in the coming months and years. Thank you. Talking about the RPC, where can the developers find the RPC to use the Fast
Finality Layer? I think it should be in the dev docs. If not, I will check with the team
if it's not there. But yeah, normally it's just an RPC endpoint that you can use in your app.
just an RPC endpoint that you can use in your app.
OK, great.
So if any developers are listening to us today,
please go to AdLayerDocumentations to find the RPC,
and also if you're interested to become an operator.
All right, let's move on to Mingxi.
Mingxi, any last thoughts to share today?
Yeah, not really last thoughts.
It has been a great journey to work with ElderLayer and AgonLayer
to build the fast finality layer secured by Asta and RageTechEase for Sonium.
Excited how it will enhance the developer experience and economic security, Sonium,
and excited for the next phase of ASTA evolution. Thank you.
All right, you cannot say too much about this, Ming-shi.
It's still confidential information, the next phase, of course.
All right, NK, anything to say and to share with the audience before we stop?
Sure. Thank you all for jumping into the space on Friday.
Happy Friday, everyone.
It is truly amazing that we are working with infra providers in the ecosystem
like Eigenlayer and Astlayer with a shared vision of adopting billions of users on-chain.
We are just getting started here, and I believe there has been always a debate
between whether the adoption should be happening from the distribution channel versus adoption
should be happening from the tech itself. I think the balance between the two is very important.
And the direction that Sonium has been working on is aligned with those kind of like the balanced
approach. While we are trying to adapt all of the necessary infrastructure
working with the top partners like the eigenlayer and altlayer
in the ecosystem to ensure the environment for the developers
and users for the scalable environment.
At the same time, we are working with multiple enterprises,
including Sony, but not only Sony.
We are also working with other enterprises such as LINE to ensure that we have a distribution channel for the web-free applications to be
adopted by the broader user base. And these kind of efforts that are directed to the both ways
will eventually be coming to a fruitful outcome at the end of the day. And I'm looking forward
to continue to build together
with the EigenLayer, AthLayer and ASTAR team.
Thank you so much, everyone.
Thank you, NK.
Kevin, anything to say to share with us?
Yes, yes.
So I'm very excited for this collaboration
and as a developer relations person at Sonium,
I'm looking forward to see what builders make out
of this upgrade for them.
And yeah, also inviting all of the builders listening
to take a look also at our docs
and join the Discord to discuss their ideas.
Really cool.
Thank you, Kevin.
I can only agree with you.
So, all right.
So for everyone else listening to today, if you are ASTAR token holders,
you can check the EgonLayer website and stake your token on the Fastfinality layer.
If you are a developer, you can reach out to the Sollium Discord
and Builder community on Sonium Discord,
explore also ArtLayer documentation.
There are things to do for everyone,
for every community members, so please check
and also make sure to follow the socials of everyone here,
Eger, ArtLayer, Sonium, and Asta.
And I wish you all a very great day
and also an amazing weekend.
Next week will be busy.
I know some people are in Token 2049.
That's going to be a really exciting week
with amazing people and team joining.
But it's also next week, the Golden Week,
especially in Japan.
We have a lot of Japanese community members on Sonium and Asta.
So I wish you all an amazing week.
Take care.
Don't forget to touch some grass this weekend and have an amazing day.
Thank you very much. Bye-bye. Nice weekend. Bye-bye. you very much bye-bye thank you Thank you.
Host
Astar Network
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