okay all right hello everyone hello how's it going how was your day GM GM good to
be here yeah pleasure to have you guys and yeah I think everybody is here and
we can start or start with community manager and business developer oh yeah I
haven't heard you last few words from you but I guess what are you talking about so
yeah yeah yeah so I'm business developer at lazy circle and lazy circle is
multi-device free-to-play web 3 soccer manager that we've been building like
almost a year and in lazy circle you act as a manager and you have to manage your
roster of slots which are our game characters you have to build
infrastructure office stadium medicine center and other buildings improve the
team roster and NFT stuff which is a strategic component of the manager and
of course you have to control financial balance not to become bro not to be
broken yeah well of course you have to choose the right tactics and play styles
for tournaments to get the higher rewards well for this reasons we
position Lee soccer as think and turn game and we really play pay lots of
attention to interesting game mechanics so now we're in the final development
stage and in a few weeks we plan to launch tournaments between content
creators and game communities yeah I'll be brief today so that's all yeah thank
you doing that what's your favorite genre of game and your favorite gaming web
3 you know I used to tell you that I like RPGs and like gothic for example but
recently I remembered one cool game that I really enjoyed it's Fahrenheit
it's like game when you choose it's like a movie game movie ad and I can't
explain its genre but but if you play it you just have to click the right
buttons in right time and it's like in very interesting storytelling game and
I enjoy it very much just to remember that I want to share it yeah so and in
web 3 of course lazy soccer I see thank you do that and what about me if you
haven't heard my introduction so I'm Jeff community management business developer
at lazy soccer and about my favorite genre of games so I love TCG's I love
Hearthstone I love the new mods in what three space and of course I love
aluminum as well last remains so this beautiful games and by the way singing
what about your I for testing can you tell about yourself about your game yes
so thank you for bringing up such a painful moment in my life at the moment
with this fucking alpha coming out um well the alpha should have been out two
days ago and then it should have been out this morning and now my developers
are hiding away from me in my wrath trying to hurry up and get things going
luckily they're in Europe and I'm in New York City so I can't really
physically hurt them but I'm about to fly over and and physically hunt them
down and hurt them very soon so hopefully the alpha comes out later this
week I won't give a date because I'll probably shoot myself I give a date and
doesn't happen again for the tenth time but that's game development that's
what happens and my game is my angry yakuza girlfriend it is a very competitive
the gen multiplayer game where you blew each other up with luxury handbags and
champagne bottles and an MX black ninja cards so if that doesn't make any sense
it's not meant to be so come out and join our alpha and you can check it out
I see looking forward to your alpha testing because I'm also a holder of mic
and I really want to test it and by the way about our beta version about our
release so hopefully it will be on 3 XP and we are going to this conference and
if you're if you're going to 3 XP as well don't forget to come by and say
hi Matt device former committee majord book take oh now you're co-founder of
waypoint gaming with the gaming marketing agency what you can tell us
about yourself about your agency yeah I know a hundred percent and once again
thank you guys for having me I really appreciate doing this I always learn a
lot and I'm gonna be brief so basically yeah my background doesn't give me any
sports and that is kind of the reason why I partner with spike at a waypoint
because I'm you know it's basically what I've done for the past like half a
decade work with content creators and games to kind of you know just push you
know push these games out there and help these creators grow as well so yeah and
then when it comes to games I always struggle saying like what's my favorite
genre so I'm gonna steal your answer and say you know I look forward to
playing all the games currently present here on on stage right now and then yeah
out of outside of web 2 I think oh yeah yesterday I played a little for night
and the day before I played some Genshin impact with some friends in web 3 so
yeah just enjoy a big fan of gaming in general so I'll leave it I'll leave it
there thank you thank you my device why I haven't invited me yesterday to play
Fortnite I was playing last weekend's Fortnite and last week with my device
and I was playing last time TFT you know I love this game as well so
sometimes you know when I have some free time on playing these games and Anna our
co-hosts media host at block stars and eater at game on what you can tell
about yourself about block stars well thank you so much for having me
for one I'm always excited to be here with you and Matt and everybody on stage
you always have amazing spaces and so thank you very much for allowing me to be
here and being part of Toho so I guess my name is Anna Maria I am the I am
block stars media host we're currently building a free-to-pay mobile music
management simulation game that should come out at some point during the
summer the vision of block stars is to have more fun together and our
mission is to enable human connections competition and collaboration that
motivate a desire to be remarkable which you know kind of feeds in perfectly
to what my passion project is which is game on a collaborative community
centric news outlet for up-and-coming modern and indie games and yeah I guess
my I'm gonna I'm gonna steal a little bit of your answer because what I've
been trying to do is try as many web three games as possible and I try them
and then I make my husband try them because I'm very new at gaming and
he's been playing longer so I could have an experienced person do it and
learn a little bit about like the mechanics and so I'm still trying a lot
of them out so I you know I downloaded a few launchers and I've been trying all
the ones that I can I'm looking forward to playing I this is what sucks I
remember the people's PFPs but not the game names for us goes game would you
guys what is it called let's see I'm like playing metal core I'm trying to
I've been trying to download that a few days but I'm not able to do it because I
guess the epic is having issues so and maybe it's because I'm in Spain but yeah
so I'm trying to I'm trying to download as many as possible and you know try
different ones out I'm really looking forward to St. John's and obviously I'm
looking forward to shrapnel and playing the Nenon's because I love Sarah and
Jasper and obviously lazy suckers on my list too I'm trying to test as many
as I can out so yeah super you know I guess I don't know if you guys saw the
news that there's a web 3 game that surpassed for the last five weeks all
the games on the App Store and I just saw it right now and I was super excited
by that news because that's a win for all of us yeah thank you Anna and
about metal core as I know they have some problems with them with some regions
some of our community members won't be able to download these games so yeah I
really looking forward to play because I just installed but haven't found it yet
because I don't have free time right now but yeah Andrew how's that
we've had you on our previous data spaces it was really awesome what you
can tell us thanks for having me again I really appreciate it yeah I'm hosting
an executive producer at alluvium so I produce all of our podcast videos
official trailers and things that you see at alluvium and if you're not
already familiar with alluvium I replied to the space with a gameplay trailer
that I created with my team you guys can check out our overworld beta 2 but
in a nutshell if you're not already familiar alluvium is attempting to be the
first ever triple-a graphics game in the web 3 space we've got four games that
we're moving that we're launching simultaneously that are all interoperable
with each other it's a wild fantastical avatar like world on where you collect
alluvials I think sort of Pokemon for adults and these alluvials you capture
them in the overworld and then you battle them in an entirely different video game
the arena and we also have a city builder industrial complex game called
alluvium zero where you collect fuel that enables you to go into that
overworld to capture those alluvials to battle them in the arena and all of
this is on the blockchain and is interoperable with each other and so this
year 2023 will be moving into open beta with all four of our games including
alluvium beyond our PFP game and we're hoping that alluvium is the first ever
project that uses blockchain technology and on boards millions of mainstream
gamers because the graphics and the experience are as good as if not better
than what they're currently experiencing in web 2 gaming and as far as my
favorite video game genre is concerned I've shared with you last time I love
cyberpunk 2077 I'm addicted but my favorite game of all time is
Warcraft 3 and namely because Warcraft 3 had the map editor that spawned the
entire mobile genre and popularized the tower defense genre and it showed the
power of allowing users to create new experiences and to have input on your
games and to use your games and sort of have like decentralized creation if you
will and that's the reason why we have popular eSports today League of Legends
and Dota and all the MOBA games and even the billion dollar tower defense
game sub sector all because Blizzard allowed for one tiny moment in their
history for people to create on their platforms so Warcraft 3 is my favorite
game of all time thanks for having me I'm excited to be here in this space
thank you Andrew and by the way Warcraft 3 it was my first game when I was seven
years old my brother was playing this game and I was really enjoying watching
and that's where it all started actually and by the way how people can play your
beta test of Iluvium you got it so I replied to this space with a tweet that
shows the gameplay trailer you can click through and go to the beta registration
page you can also just go directly to play dot Iluvium dot IO and you'll see
the overworld there just click register for the beta and we're getting as many
people in as we can the demand is extremely high right now I think in
total we have a million registrations overall for all Iluvium game access and
we're doing our best to get tens of thousands of players into test beta 2 so
please be patient with us just the demand exceeds our capacity to get
people in the beta right now but right please register and we're regularly
rolling out waves of beta 2 access as quickly as we can I was some thinking
and by the way I'm looking forward to PvP mods in your game and as I know in
your roadmap it will be in six months hopefully but yeah looking forward to it
and maps from estimates but before going on don't forget to share all the
tweets about your projects in this Twitter space and the listeners don't
forget to ask questions to our speakers and they always great to answer them
Max from last remains MTTM guru gone introduce yourself your project and tell
us about your favorite genre of games and your favorite game yeah of course
and I got ahead of the ahead of the curve there and when I saw Andrew it
posted in the thread so I did the same thing just to let you know I put a
intro video to last remains in the thread for the space for anybody who's
curious you'll hear my voice on it so it'll sound pretty familiar hopefully you
don't get bored of me before the space is over it's first off a pleasure to be
here I was on a space just a little bit earlier with Jave and it was an
absolute blast love chatting web 3 gaming and Matt I feel like you and I I don't
know what it is but we're just always on the same roster of speakers here and
I'd have it no other way because we go way back I'm really happy to be up here
but let me get right into it so my name is Max I've been known in the space as
guru or 0x guru for a while I've been in web 3 gaming for quite a bit I started
off a couple years ago about two three years ago making YouTube videos about a
game that I'm sure everybody knows now and that's axi infinity I was playing and
I was creating a community around axi back when we had about five ten K users
and I really watched the eruption that happened in 2021 and I've been here
since I absolutely love what web 3 technology is providing for games to
revolutionize it for the gamers and the community that actually does create
what is a successful game so I'm really excited to see how we continue to
innovate and use this technology not to just to financialize the gaming
ecosystem but to just innovate on top of it I think we've only really scratched
the surface of what we can do with this technology that's something we're
actually trying to do with last remains so I myself I'm actually working with the
earn alliance team developing a game called last remains I do also like to boast
that we have pretty decent graphics as well maybe not quite a luvium grade you
know I have to shout out to a luvium I absolutely love what you guys can do
visually with the game but we're trying our best here of course so last remains
is a web 3 zombie survival battle royale I know it's a mouthful but
trust me if you guys check out the game you'll know exactly why it's such a
long title we have a fully playable game right now but it is in closed testing
for NFT holders and strategic partners we have been doing a bunch of streams on
our twitch so if you want to see the game in its full glory we actually just
ran a tournament with some of our best players in the world it was extremely
exciting and put a smile on my face for the whole time we did it so the
game itself utilizes NFTs primarily more than tokens to pretty much tokenize
most of the usable equipment in the game it is an extraction style game so you
know the way that you work through it you play through the game try and extract
with your goodies if you do let me tell you there's a lot of opportunity with it
from the characters to the equipment many things are on chain and
available to be traded or used in the game so that's that and as far as
games that I love well I think that I do end up having to give it to League of
Legends I love League of Legends it's one of my favorite games it really
changed my my whole life when it came to gaming actually before the point where I
started playing League of Legends competitively I always had a bit of a
distorted outlook on gaming I thought just in the back of my head you know I
had my parents voice telling me that it might be a waste of time that all
changed when I had the opportunity to start playing League competitively about
five six years ago and it really opened my eyes to how big of a movement
the gaming scene and the competitive gaming scene specifically is in the
world so that's what I'm doing now Last Remains is a very competitive game
trying to really break out of the web 3 mold with its competitive identity and I
hope that we can make that happen with our release happening later this year
so yeah that's me it's a pleasure to be here guys all right I think max I think
javelin wasn't able to hear you so I think the fix is for you to like drop
off and come back on stage but yeah we can go ahead and go to Jasper next
Jasper yeah I'm excited to be here I'm Jasper from the Nina mods by the waste
engine I have until Sunday to visit your developers in Europe if needed and then
applying to LA for 3 XP but I'm Jasper from the new mods we're launching a TCG
or MVP we're currently in pre-alpha or MVP is set hopefully at the end of the
summer but like you know in game development it might be the late
sometimes yeah it's it's a trading card game that mixes popular items from the
80s with animals and try to create a fun experience taking uses on a route
exploring these animals themselves my favorite game well right now is I
recently downloaded track mania nations again I kept losing in every single game
to my little brother so I had to go back to my roots and I played track mania
competitively quite okay so that's what I'm playing right now and that's
the Nemos pre-alpha and people can apply in our discord it's fun it's an
experience it's not your typical TCG and you just have to experience it to
figure out what we are and it's it's it's an amazing experience for me as well
to be on the space with everyone thank you for having me thank you Jasper we
really love what you're doing and looking forward to play with you and
Sarah Sunday and by the way Max I was listening to you through my laptop
because I wasn't able to hear you on my phone and you know we should play
someday in League of Legends because I'm playing this game sometimes as well
alright I'll tell me after the space shrapnel you're the next one please tell
us about yourself about your game and about your very genre of games and
fairy game yeah absolutely thanks for having us up here I'm always excited to
be on spaces with Anna one of my favorite humans in the space love you
Matt all the other folks up here so yeah we've trapped was building an
extraction-based first-person shooter similar to one of the other folks I just
heard describing their game you have a persistent inventory that lives outside
of the game and you choose what items to bring in with you to every game what
weapons what skins what you know health packs all that kind of stuff all of
those items are NFTs that live in our universe and can be bought sold
traded there will be three opportunities throughout the course of a match for a
player to extract and at the final extraction point only one person can
extract and so the idea is that we will release increasingly rare and valuable
items and drops into the environment as the game progresses and so ostensibly
the last people in every match will be the best and most competitive and only
one of them will be able to extract so if you extract for you know before
the first two for the last round anyone can can get out but there's there's a lot
we expect there to be and in the demos we've seen a lot of fun like last minute
matchups where people are dueling so that's that's the game we're built by a
group of folks that have been working in triple-a video games for a really
long time we have about 65 people on the team full-time in the US and then
another 30 or 40 internationally so I think we're up 200 people full-time and
then there's probably like another 150 200 contractors working on various parts
of the game as well the founding team came from HBO really fun story if we
always making a bunch of Westworld video games and such and then got
purchased by AT&T and decided they weren't gonna make video games anymore
so all these people that had been making the Westworld and snow crash
video games started their own studio and shrapnel was born a couple years
ago we are in pre-alpha right now we'll be inviting our operator holders which is
our Genesis collection to play the game early over the next couple months and
then we'll be launching early access on the Epic Games Store for anyone who
wants to go download it and play in December super excited to be up here a
lot of really powerhouse teams love the love the alluvium story love to hear
about the St. John's game and I think it was either was talking about NFL
rivals the the game that just was taken off all over the App Store super proud
of those guys as well the EP and the creative director for those for that
game is actually a bunch of friends of mine from EA Sports that I brought out
to Seattle with me we all worked together at Amazon and then when we all
split off from our twitch Amazon days they went to mythical games and I went
over to shrapnel so really excited to see that in the space and love to see
them getting their flowers my favorite video game genre or series with huge
JRPG fan I just bought for the probably the seventh time all of the
Final Fantasy games on the Nintendo switch I've purchased them on like nine
systems now and I'm gonna play through them all with my seven year old daughter
who's now getting into JRPGs with me as well so anyway thanks for having us
up here guys super excited chat yeah thank you sure up now and by the way
about really looking forward to play your game and you know I was about
favorite games I've seen in the store of bottleneck Diablo 4 will someone buy it
and you know it's really expensive like about I think $100 for sale to play it on
June 6th but yeah really looking forward to play Diablo as well and I think we'll
start with our first question Matt 100% all right so I'm excited to dive in
before we start I do want to say I have a massive respect for every single game
up here everyone that's showing up every day no matter your size so yeah I just I
just respect you guys a lot I just want to say that cuz making games is one of
the hardest things there is which which I found out while working for a game so
yeah guys a lot of respect alright so this will be the format kinda I'm gonna
ask the first question and then I'll give some context and then you know if
everyone wants to speak just start raising your hands and then when I see a
couple of hands raised then I'll I'll kind of like stop the you know the rant
and then I'll let you guys go okay so the first question is essentially how do
we strike the balance between okay so the I guess the topic is game death
right so how do we strike the balance between creativity and commercial
viability during the game creation process right so it's over context and the
walls doubt discord we've recently had a topic of you know how a lot of VCs when
they invest into a game they kind of like expect them to let's say prioritize
kind of like certain things so for example last year when a lot of the VCs
were kind of like investing into games and a lot of games started leading with
like tokens now in retrospect I think that was like the wrong order of things
because you know a lot of those tokens are kind of like you know down bad
right so when it comes to when it comes to developing a game how do you
balance how do you strike that balance of like let's say you receive like a
cash injection how do you let's say level set expectations with your
investors and then also with your community and how do you like
prioritize game dev because I think it's a pretty relevant question since for
example I think I pinned a tweet that was actually from today from Alexis Ohanian
and he basically said within the next five years the majority of
gamers won't play games unless they are being properly valued for that time the
model is called play to earn and it will become the standard for video
games in the future so I think when a lot of us read this right we're
probably taking a little bit of back because it feels like this guy posted
this and in the past right so I'll let guru speak and then I guess the
conversation will evolve from there guru then send it yeah thanks Matt I'm gonna
touch only a bit on this I feel like this is a topic that is gonna go back
and forth so I might jump in later but I want to start it off first off by
talking a little bit about what Alexis had mentioned I think ironically enough
he's on to the right point gamers we've been playing games for a very
long time and I think everybody has this memory at some point in time when they
picked up a completely novel game something that they just got consumed
into I remember actually I was listening to to you speak I can't don't know your
name but I know you're on the shrapnel account and you were talking about JRPG
is specifically Final Fantasy can I ever tell you that Final Fantasy was a it
was a life-changing game for me you know playing through from seven which
was my first one all the way up to X which was my favorite it really felt
novel I felt like I got completely consumed the hours just sunk by right I've
had the same experience in other games and I think this is something that in
general is capturing the true essence of gaming and as gamers we feel value in
that right but this is something that we've seen is increasingly hard to
capture especially over the last decade as novelty starts to run a little bit
dry you know we've had just the quantity of games and creative spice
that's been put into what we currently have as a game engine it's
running dry it's just it's inevitable to to admit that and I think that in that
regards Alexis is talking about how gamers are now feeling that their time is
kind of like some cost you know we've all probably had it at some point I know
I've had it playing League you can have these experiences where maybe you're
slightly addicted to a gaming experience you play it over and over and over
again it runs dry you have this sudden down of depression and suddenly you
realize what the hell am I doing with my time right it just it pops up it
has that feeling and if you don't have a response to that if as a gamer or as a
developer specifically you're not curating a system that can help an
individual just answer that question this is gonna be a potential user
retention issue where you're gonna have people who will be dropping out of
your game because even just regardless of how they've come to that realization
they've come to the realization that they no longer see value in maintaining
their participation in your ecosystem so this one of the ways that we have
tried to you know approach this through axi infinity obviously was being able to
add that play to earn aspect to it you know once you have that feeling of like
and I've seen it trust me I ran a scholarship Matt you ran one as well
there are times at the end of season people are burnt out they're having a
terrible time they hated the game but they continued to do it because they
felt that motivation financially to be able to participate and get that final
placement so they can get the rewards this is one way to do it this is the
way that you know in this day and age we motivate people to continue participating
in their line of work their career it's financial it's monetized and this does
work but to be honest with you it doesn't capture the true essence of
gaming so personally my approach on this by trying to balance that creativity
and commercialization you first off have to be realistic right like I know a
lot of people have been selling dreams in the web 3 space and that's all
fine and dandy if you're trying to raise money but at the end of the day
if you are developing something you need to be realistic about it you should be
data-driven use the projects that we've had that have come before us there's a
lot of valuable information and data from some of those case studies make sure
that you apply it both to your investors and to your community and then
the final thing that you need to do is really and I know this is something
that sounds unbelievable to say but it's a big issue in the web 3 space you
need to be genuine you need to be genuine first and foremost with your
community and you need to let them know you need to set expectations you need
to meet those expectations and if you continue to do that regardless of the
circumstances even if you have these downward trends if you have curated a
high integrity appearance to your community and to your investors even
through some of those tough parts when the market is as it is now people are
going to believe in you and if the people believe in you and what you're
building they're going to stay committed to it even when they go
through those phases of doubt so that's my take on it just from a from a get-go
to set the foundation here I think that's kind of what Alexis might be
missing is that yes monetization will incentivize people to continue to
participate but it's not enough if you ask me at a certain point monetization
becomes unsustainable if you're trying to use it as the primary source of
your user retention you need to value people in a way that aligns with the
true essence of gaming so yeah that's my start thank you okay we have a lot
of hands I believe it's engine shrapnel desperate than Andrew yeah so I'm not
gonna criticize Alexi on the thread publicly because I love it when a public
figure of his statue comes in and obviously he's completely new in terms
of getting into the conversation it's like we've had this conversation before
and what girl was saying is absolutely cried I mean we ran a 300 person
scholarship as well and axi and we had started in I think like April of 2021
back then as well right before it started just really super takeoff but then
you know like is monetization enough incentive to keep a game going and you
know and then that conversation we've had that when actually pretty much you know
got decimated in terms of player number and interest and and you know the token
price and and so and so forth and we said yes well obviously the games need
to be fun which is not a huge insight actually by definition games are fun
meant to be fun right but for web 3 was a huge insight because we were so
focused on the monetization thing I'm glad he's getting into the conversation
he's really at the beginning of the conversation I don't think we need to
educate him or criticize him for it because you know it will naturally
progress as he talks but in terms of the VCs you know there are a lot of
VCs in East Asia and Southeast Asia who still really believe that there is a
play-to-earn model that's out there that that's very very still play to earn
and in their view it's not really a Ponzi just it's a kind of a broken system I
think we're still looking for what is a sustainable system but you know I'll
give you the example of poker where it's it's highly competitive right the
motivation mainly is money but it's not entirely money there is this issue or
this thrill of risk and there is this need to kind of how do I say rise up
the ranks to be a high roller to be a baller right and I can say this well
you know I think some of you know my background but I was the regional
director of poker stars in Asia back in 2007 so I actually legalized poker and
watch that game grow in China and abroad I'm sure I'm going to hell on some
level but in any case I think what the visas were asking for originally like I
would say you know in the middle of maybe the Q3 Q2 Q3 of 2001 was really all
about the tokens right and and that's really difficult because you know the
models were not really said we were coming from a point where you had axi
and then the peg axi and theta arena and these had quickly come up and then
they had quickly you know pumped and then dumped and then you know we're
looking like they were kind of failing but still everyone was like very
hyped up about it so if you wanted to get funding at that time you had to
kind of have a pre mint and and have that ready for you know the the VCs and
during that time when I talked to a lot of VCs their main concern was like what
is the token supply and like when will we be able to invest now for myself
even though we had money on the table we had a great valuation for our studio
I said no I just didn't say no I just walked away from everything and I said
well we're gonna develop our game the way we really want to develop it because
we're looking for something more now of course everyone in my company later
regretted that I didn't just take all the fucking money that I could and just
pivoted later on and just basically lied but you know I think if you're really
authentic as a game designer or someone like that and I think that's the major
difference between a lot of like web 2 game designers and a lot of web 3 game
designers is web 3 game designers are coming in from the crypto side they're
all about what's the token what's the motivation what's the financial
incentive how we align there how are people getting paid out and incentivize
to kind of push the message and web 2 gamer or web 2 game designers were more
like like the ones that actually entered into web 3 were more like okay how can
we use this as something special whether it's a change in ownership
structure or asset ownership or so on and so forth and I think you know to be
you know alluvium is a great example right it's it's three different games
they're you know working on the interoperability of things you know and
and making use of it beyond just ownership but in you know in a you know
different use cases they're all interoperable and big shout out to
everyone here especially you know I've heard great things about a shrapnel as
well I think that's for like the full overall triple-a game I mean I have all
my money with them not literally but figuratively speaking and my senior
producer Danny Pissano he was at EA he had launched the Tiger Woods series so I
am sure some of your team will know him as well but yeah it's very difficult
but in general like how do you balance like what other people want in terms
of commercialization and like in terms of creativity I think that comes down to
the game designer and and the game producer and basically I think for a
lot of studios if you don't need to do another raise well then fuck it the
money's in your pockets it's what you want to really do engine shop now gone
yeah yeah I think that was a super interesting perspective and there's a lot
of points that I definitely agree with there I would say that you know our
approach to commercialization has been twofold one we made it super clear when
we were raising the money that in the way that that's engine was just talking
about that the people who are giving us money we're giving money to storied web
to game developers who have launched things like Halo and you know
Counter Strike and I think half of our team worked on various Bioshock games
at one point or another like their bar for quality is just is such that that
we're not gonna we're not gonna ship something shitty and then the people who
gave us money know that so the expectation was just set right off the
bat which I think is super important and then second we've really we've
really built what I would call a creator economy into the DNA of our studio so I
think it was the alluvium gentleman that was talking about how much he loved
Warcraft 3 also love Warcraft 3 because it spawned so many so many of these
iconic games and genres that we play now you know Team Fortress same thing you
know well before the mobile genre came out you know mods have been around for
for a while and and in fact a lot of the people at the studio have have been
passionate about that community or worked on those games that have been so
had such a landmark impact on the modding community and so a lot of these folks
Mark Long, Colin Ferran who's our head of creative director these folks are
people who like have already made a shitload of money and web to shipping
big video games and owning big IP and this is like their passion project right
like they they truly believe that they're gonna make this creator
economy that that really empowers the people who make mods within our
universe to reap financial benefit from making those mods that it's just really
baked into who we are and as a function of that our entire business model
really keys off of our our ability to empower and enrich the people that are
creating the content in our game so in shrapnel everything's moddable like the
the people who play the game will be able to make new guns new characters
new maps all that stuff you're not ever gonna be able to like build Mario Kart
and shrapnel but you know there will be a variety of game modes that we expect
to to evolve out of the game that we've created right and the way that we're
gonna fuel that engine you know kind of counter to the way the web two folks
have been doing it traditionally is to directly financially reward people who
create compelling content right so if you create the most popular map you
will get a shitload of shrapnel as people play that map if you aren't a
creator but you want to support creators and you believe in the economy
you'll actually be able to I'm not allowed to use the staking word anymore
I don't think but you'll be able to lock up your strap and use that as a
curation mechanism to say hey I think that Matt's map is gonna be the most
popular map this month of this quarter or whatever and if you're right
and you get in early and you stake your or lock up your strap early then you
will you will get some of the emission from that that that experience as
well right so really our game doesn't work unless a good number of people in
our game are not only creating things within it and being financially
rewarded for that but also curating and fueling that creation and so like
literally all of our systems are built around that concept whether it is helping
people get more excited about creating the content or helping getting people
more excited about how they can show off their content and curate it so we
think a lot about how things are streamable and fun to watch not just
fun to play so yeah we're to answer the root question how are we balancing fun and
building a quality product with our shareholders desire to make lots and lots
of money we have we've sold them on the vision of our company being that the
weight of lots and lots of money is to let us create this beautiful thing that
lots of people at the studio created before and also to make sure that we
are sharing the wealth with all of our community as part of the DNA of
who we are I just wanted to jump in and say Anna you can you can speak whenever
you want oh no I'm actually just listening what everybody's saying and
I'll go ahead I'll go after Andrew and then Jasper and then I'll go because I
feel like what everybody's saying is quite is very eloquent and it feeds
into what I'm thinking so go for it Andrew I think I think I might have
been Jasper first but yeah shrapnel um I very much liked what I heard any game
that I think about the creator economy and how the whole system will work is you
know I'm definitely a fan of so I believe it was Jasper next let me know
yeah that's true but if Andrew wants to go first that's perfectly fine with me
all right to avoid further awkwardness on who's going next you guys are too
polite I'll go next thank you so as far as a on the investor side I haven't had
direct interactions with investors for alluvium but I am excited to bring up
that we did just raise an additional 10 million dollars from framework ventures
which is really exciting for alluvium which provides us with additional runway
and allows us to accelerate development really really nice to have that right
now however I can speak to the creativity and commercial viability versus
commercial viability topic so I believe right now we are currently in like let's
call it gaming 2.5 it's not web 3.0 we're in 2.5 we're in the transition
phase between traditional gaming let's say and then this new technology and we
don't know how the new tech is going to shape out so what do you do when
you're in the transitional phase well the formula that's always worked is create
games that are in familiar genres not new ones build a better experience and
then plug in the new business model that's what World of Warcraft did League
of Legends did Clash of Clans did Fortnite did so what do you do if you're
in web 2.5 which is where we're at right now you innovate on the business
model side so you implement things like NFTs okay and then you innovate on the
tech level and you do things like interoperability most games all the
games in here and most games out there are obviously doing the NFT side of
things and that's making them kind of web 2.5 but they are failing to have a
clear vision or pipeline or design interoperability into their games from
the ground up so I think that that's a huge missed opportunity here in the
space and the reason why I bring those two up is because innovating on the
business model with NFTs and then innovating on interoperability on the
tech level on the blockchain level actually transforms the experience for
gamers it's not just some financial investment it's not just the same
thing you've always gotten it is a new experience when you get an NFT in game
number one and it is designed on the ground level designed baked into the
games to impact your gameplay and to unlock gameplay opportunities in an
additional video game obviously alluvium is doing that and I've brought up the
simple example of fuel from alluvium zero into the overworld where you collect
alluvials that you then taken into the arena all three of those games are
interoperable that unlocks new experiences it makes the items you're
collecting or the characters you're correct collecting or the creatures or
the guns or the skins or the whatever in game number one it makes it mean
more it makes it deeper it makes it more interesting and it unlocks new
experiences when you can take those into those other games we need in my
opinion every game studio thinking this way if we want to unlock that new
experience gamers don't want to just play the same game they've always played
they want a better experience and I think interoperability is the other half
of the equation the industry has been missing they've been focusing on NFTs
NFTs ownership ownership that clearly hasn't landed you need to be able to
own the thing great that's not an experience owning something is not a new
experience being able to take the thing you own and do something new with it
that's the experience so we need to unlock that new experience that's number
one that's that's the creativity combined with commercial viability sort of
big idea that alluvium is working on and I can kind of consider us web 2.5 to be
perfectly honest maybe web point 3.0 later and the big mistake I see a lot of
studios doing out there when they are doing the new NFT business model is they
are selling power for their video game before launch and I think that's
regrettable I don't think it's unethical necessarily but I think it's
regrettable because when new gamers new players let's say they really truly are
interested in your game and they want to come check it out and then want to
play when all the best stuff when all of your best land when your best guns when
your best characters when your best cards have been purchased by whales for
thousands of dollars pre-launch millions of dollars in some cases hundreds of
millions of dollars in other cases with certain games I'm not going to name names
because there's really no point when you're a new gamer and you come into
those universes and you're like yeah I'm ready to do some PvP and you realize
that people wait out wailed out by the hundreds of thousands of dollars if not
millions of dollars before the game even launched it is majorly off-putting and I
think that those games are going to struggle to bring value to new players
do you want to go play in a playground or in a metaverse or in a game where
everyone you're around is one thousand decks better and more powerful than you
because they paid money at launch I think this is a industry level mistake
and if you are going to allow people to purchase NFTs pre-launch which I totally
understand alluvium has done that don't let them acquire power pre-launch
really important and so I think the majority of our industry is making that
mistake and I think games that do that will run into retention issues because
new players that want to come in and play for free and check out your
experience for free are gonna find themselves in a land of giants and then
they're gonna go look at the price tag to go get that founders pass and they're
gonna go five thousand dollars I'm out that's my thoughts on creativity versus
thank you really love your toes I love how Andrew speaks because he speaks as
he's definitely a presenter and the way he speaks is like you can almost see an
underlying go underneath the word or a bold that's how I envision it so I really
appreciate that Andrew I mean if I was taking notes man you'd be the best guy to
like get exact quotes from thank you I'm power I actually have chat GPT for jacked
directly into my brain so that's why it turns out that way this yeah yes please
I'm just joking actually Andrew what you said really resonated with a few things
and what you as far as you know you know minting before and what that could do to
players later made me think a lot like and I'm not gonna lie I haven't thought
about that the way I've thought about you know modern versus traditional gaming
I've looked at web 3 and I've had conversations with sin gen and with
Nico from tribal games about this and I was looking at the way I perceived it
was like a cultural model of game development in which like community it
was community centric opinions mattered and the fact that we haven't considered
as an ecosystem that giving players power prior to the game existing is not
community centric at all is something that was that was very enlightening for
me so I want to thank you for saying that you got it I mean in web 2 games
though you know you can go play you can jump into like a clash of clans or you
know raid shadow legends or any of these like major cash cow like billion dollar
games and you can pay for power in those games it's true but I guess the
distinction I want to make before people say well hold on people could pay for
power in games today you couldn't pay for power in those games before they
launched that's the thing we're doing here that's particularly I think it's
gonna be a big issue and I can just see the mainstream youtubers the mainstream
streamers and influencers when they check out web 3 and they see that you could
buy all that power pre-launch you didn't have to buy it over to the
course of season 1 season 2 season 3 it wasn't you investing in the battle
pass with season 2 season 3 whatever to get that stuff you could just buy it
before the game launched that makes this particular business model and this
decision by the industry worse than pay for power in mobile
thank you Andrew it's really hard to take a note during hosting this space
but I will be listening to this space a few times to understand everything but
I will just say it's right over to you yeah I mean we're very humble at the
new months and I totally agree that paying for power pre-launch is not a good
thing the way I see it and I've been playing FIFA a lot by the way in FIFA
you can pay a little bit for power at the start but it's just minor and in our
trading card game what we're doing is people actually need to play to unlock
these cards they don't know what they're getting they have to play and even if
they lose they have the chance to win a card because that's the thing I
think that most of the games currently in web 2 and web 3 everyone
analyzed as well it's becoming a grind and it's not fun and people get burned
out and I understand and then when the economy is not stable and the prices are
dropping it ruins your motivation and monetization right now is just a
retention tool and web 3 and all the story I think has been told numerous time
and we all accept it and that's why I like these spaces right now where you
hear different models on how it can work we at the knee mods we don't have the
luxury to have millions of dollars in funding but we do carry a passion as
gamer and we do see what we think is needed and we listen to the community
what is needed and that's why because we don't have millions of funding we try
to do a different approach that allows us to be a little bit more free roaming
where it's really dependent on the players to explore on the players to
mint the NFTs we're not selling them they they have to play to earn them and
then they can choose whatever they want to do with it if they want to sell it
that's okay they're allowed we'll have new seasons where new cards will be
introduced so the meta of season one might be a little bit different than the
meta of season two yet still people can't pay for them they they can buy the
meta on the open market but they also know that during seasonal changes it
might change and that's one of the things that that we try to do because I
know when I'm going back to FIFA when I'm
playing and I see a team with Ronaldo I can with Mbappe I know you get
messages or they send messages like oh that's credit card FC and it's it's been
bothering me as well as a gamer so that's why we go a completely different
route and it's kind of what we're doing and
and we try to to keep it light-hearted and try to keep it fun
because our model is based on player activity so that's that's just one of the
things that we're doing I'm kind of I'm really impressed with how shrapnel is
heading it up their system and alluvium as well and I
can actually envision it seeing it work just from
what I've heard so I'm impressed because that's one of
the things that I kept on doubting if you have
millions of funding if you get a 10 million
liquidity boost that's going to be 30 40 million
having to leave your ecosystem if not more and the way you guys set it up I'm
I'm actually thoroughly impressed by it and I'm definitely learning on this
thank you lazy soccer for bringing these amazing speakers
thank you I think up next was Alex Alex you were up next and then it was
uh d gen dad I actually think d gen might have
been first by the way so go ahead d gen yeah
thank you hello actually uh I also want
to say that we as usually we have here lots of great opinions from wonderful
speakers yeah thank you guys for sharing it and
actually I'd like to share our experience on the question because you
know we're lucky guys in lazy soccer because at
the moment we are independent developers and
unfortunately we don't have to please any VCs so
uh but I have to make a note here that we do have investors but they are
members of our community so they know that our team members are
encrypted in 50 space like for years and they know that our founder has a
deep understanding of soccer managers because being a fan of this genre he
literally played almost every existing soccer manager
and he knows all the best and worst aspects of soccer managers gameplay
so that's why our investors which is our community members they completely
rely on us so we base our development on our experience
and focus on creating exciting game mechanics that
will be interesting to the players it's the first our goal of course and
we don't try not to forget about the commercial part so we can
have enough budget to continue developing and improving lazy soccer
because we have a big plans and thank you
thank you that mark's gone yeah i just actually wanted to jump in
not to play devil's advocate by any means because i think
andrew what you mentioned is very very important but almost just add a
little bit more perspective to the to the topic of buying power especially
in pre-game and i wanted to start this off by
maybe even bringing people's eyes to why this even exists right
and i think one of the reasons why you know we started selling power the way
that we did again i'm not going to name any names but i
definitely know a few games who have very much sold power in the
tens if not hundreds of millions and that is
utility let's be real we've been in the web three space right and everybody
screams this word over and over and over again but what does it really mean
and how how why is it important and why does it translate to sales and
revenue the way that it does and that is because
you do need to attract investors and when they are retail investors you know
ry is one of the things that will bring them around
but when you consider that these retail investors have that spice of
gamer to them now what is it what is it really that attracts a retail investor
pre-launch to a project or an ecosystem
a lot of it is buying power and i think that one of the big issues here isn't
per se selling the power itself but it's it's a spectrum right it's not
black nor white it's about the moderation it's about
timing it's about the quantity and it's also
about exactly how specific and how expected it can be
so one thing that i've spoken very heavily about and i actually wrote about
this years ago when we were going through the bowl
in axi infinity back in the summer of 2021 just afterwards
and i mentioned that there was a big issue in play to earn and one of the
biggest issues that i mentioned about it was the predictability
and how it was not gamified in any way so people were literally playing
spreadsheet infinity as some of us like to call it and people would not
interact with an ecosystem outside of that
that logic that spreadsheet and this is an issue and this is an issue when it
comes to power as well when you are selling power that is
extremely easy to understand it's for the most part theoretically speaking
extremely easy to predict and quantify this is when i think you start to have
those issues of you're literally just creating
baggage pre-launch that's going to give you a lot of trouble when you actually
release the game now if you were to say just
milo this down a little bit moderated and you're selling power as a utility
factor but you're selling it in a first off subjective manner i'm
gonna quote last remains for this because we're actually technically
selling power pre-release with our character nfts
however a lot of the power is quite subjective whereas it's not
now to to be fair there are a few characters that are a little strong i
will admit that but a majority of the characters that you
can actually get they have a subjective power that more
promotes the archetypes of players themselves whether you're a rogue
whether you're a fighter whether you're a utility or a support
these are the kind of attributes and professions that'll give you
a sense of support for your player archetype
but they're not going to be something as far as here you own this entire
um city or this entire part of the ecosystem or you're an irrefutably
powerful character you know we've seen pay to win games like this give you
battle power points that make you invincible that anybody that hasn't
spent money below you this is unhealthy right but giving you a sense of power
that is not overwhelming that does not create
an insane amount of baggage going forward but at least gives you
as a you know pre-launch investor the sense of value
that actually motivates you to purchase motivates you to invest to support this
project that is important and i think it's
it's about first off moderating it making sure it's not too powerful
gamifying it so it's not easy to predict it's a sense of roi where you're going to
be the strongest person around but again it's got to be gamified and then
the final thing which is super important and i think too many games are
jumping the gun on this it's timing it right if you're trying to
sell assets for your game huge power assets for your game
years before launch and you're first off expecting the market to try and
maintain this kind of value proposition or even just
produce the value for these assets a great example of this is axi infinity
land you're going to have a very very hard
time because you're going to be trying to satisfy
these really heavy financial expectations of these asset
holders and it's going to take away from your
ability to actually create a balanced and fun engaging and sustainable economy
within your game so i think timing is a very big thing
about this you need to time it correctly and again be
be intentional about it be be specific about it don't just give people the keys
to the kingdom you know sell people enough utility
enough power to make them feel like they've gotten value in what they
purchased but not so much so that it's just going to create terrible baggage in
your game once you go to launch um see i wanted to put that perspective
out there because i think it's important to know
when you're selling something there needs to be a value proposition right i
know that there's some projects out there that think they're going to make
their entire revenue model off of skins and that's tough i mean that is not
going to be an easy thing to do without the ip of you know league of legends
mario zelda etc to be able to like put behind
that people aren't potentially going to see the same value in that kind of
cosmetic non-utility asset as they will in
something that is a more tangible value so yeah that's my take on it just
wanted to throw that out there to be talked about
thank you amax yeah i'm just gonna jump in uh you know
actually uh what's really interesting and what i
love about what guru just said is it really shows the
difference between someone who is i would say a web3
native developer and someone who's not and what i've kind
of seen and this has been my actually um huge
adjustments uh previous to web3 i still thought of
myself as a young man of uh you know the late 40s and i
realized i'm just an old fucker who should have retired and taken my
millions and just uh you know got a small yacht or a boat
somewhere else retired and so for a lot of the web3 native
guys uh and i don't mean to typecast you here
uh guru but in a positive way is that because they're native to the space
they really see what the kind of current opportunity is and it's almost
like that aspect of developing the game is
also a matter of developing an investor base for the game and so
you know crypto changed a lot of things in general uh talking about like kind of
pre web3 kind of stuff in the sense that you know
whether it was icos or token launches or whatever like this
you know it was like a hyper form of like kickstarter
and um you know when things are financialized they're putting that
trading or or uh investment aspect and then you
add the or you integrate or kind of create this uh game around that
kind of idea of that the game should support this kind
of um financial or invest investor kind of
mindset as well uh but not as kind of separate things but
as kind of one integrate design it's it's really
interesting to hear and that's where the majority of the money
flows and uh there was a recent post uh i think this morning or something was
by sam he's out in australia he's uh kind of a hard ass uh you guys
know who i'm probably talking about but he usually uh comes out straight off
and say like these scammy ponzi motherfuckers
basically he doesn't use the word motherfucker that's why it worked but
you know these scammy whatever like this and uh you know and he's been
doing a game in stealth and he's asked for people
who really um how do i say um want to believe in the game design and
making a really fun game with web3elements they're like dm him and he
gets pissed off when people just throw out their you know
eth address and tell them to send the money sinjin.eth if you're feeling like
you just want to send me money and he's like how the fuck did these guys
get like 44 eth and we're busting our asses off
we're talking to vcs and they're not getting it it's because
that lack of native to the space doesn't let them see the opportunities but
as an old school hardcore gamer right like me pay to win
automatically makes you not a gamer okay so if you're into this
this thing you're like one of those kind of fantasy nerd
guys who just want to like you know wail it out and
and whatever have another kind of social interaction because you can't have
real social interactions in real life go for it nerds more power to you
but you guys who are in these nerdy pathetic
anti-social gamers you're not really gamers to me
right and so like if i'm coming into the space with this mentality then
you know i'm still under this non-native understanding of
how we financialize or how we fund or how we
structure these games in the sense that for me it's like game is fun
game is great game has these web3elements that we're not trying to
hide we're trying to you know create and kind of push boundaries here
um and then let the game be decided in its success by
that driving revenues right and so i i haven't
put it into that financial context but it's very frustrating when you see all
this money kind of being thrown around and you see all these game designs and
the biggest problem with these game designs is that
what a lot of designers don't realize is that or on the native side
is there's two parts to it it's the risk and the sustainability
is that when you are creating things starting in new york city
when you're creating a game based on this kind of financialized
model or investor type gamer right and and you do staking and you and you do
pre-launch and do takings and you do also you know uh kind of buy power in
the beginning and it's great for maximizing the
opportunity that's there absolutely and i think if you do in a smart way
you give yourself more space later on but what it creates though
is an issue of risk right like how much liability are you creating in the system
by doing that in the front end then is your design
really there enough to kind of manage it and will it actually be sustainable in
the long run right and i think those are two questions
that traditional game developers um we we we really don't fear that
because we are not over financializing at the beginning but we're also not
maximizing the opportunity that's kind of what's there so you know
um i have all the respect for all the like really native web3
developers and the reason why is because they have that part so well done
that you know they have their um how do i say
they have their good positioning you know they sell out their mints they
understand how to do the whitelist um but and i and i think over time
in two to three years uh there will be a lot more experience in the
models to kind of make them reduce the risk and you know make it
sustainable uh but i think that's a really
really interesting distinction there because i think as a web2 developer
coming into the space if you're thinking like i'm building a
great game i'm building with sustainability i'm
building whatever but i don't want to participate in any of these
um kind of financialized aspects of nfts or so and so forth
then you're never going to touch that opportunity as well and i i feel for
designers because you know you're so passionate about it
and everything else like that but you know if you're gonna be in web3 this is
the game to play right but sinjin wouldn't you say that
like you know if we look at the mints for games that happened
like in the last year the majority of people
the the personas that bought into those mints were like
the investors slash maybe gamers because that's what there is in this space
because we really don't have enough like traditional gamers because
because of the defy and all that stuff and like you know
the rugs they don't trust it so i think it's because it's its infancy
like it's it's still a very young space so like
that's where yes it's fantastic that they know how to you know hype up the
system and sell out mints and you know and hopefully build the
game at the end of it because that's kind of what we've you know
we've seen can i throw this out because i think there's a
there's a kind of like common knowledge in web3 that i think is kind of wrong
right not that anything that you ever say hannah is wrong but
i'm just saying that in general is that like people are like there's no web2
gamers here all right and then there's you know
there's only web3 and there are kind of investor gamers and stuff like that
and i would i would say that because there isn't the right game yet
or a game that is web3 that's kind of web2 worthy
to create that kind of market to come in like for instance female gamers
okay right i agree with you there yeah they're still not here
yeah they're not here because i don't think like the games haven't come out
yet that have really uh that are yeah really would allow for
that you know growth to happen i'll just give a really quick example is
that before like hyper casual games or hyper
like or just casual mobile games came out right
if you were to take uh ladies okay females and you were to say to them okay
play something like uh you know counter strike or quake 3 or whatever like this
right that may have not been a really good
entry point or a genre for a lot of women back in the
you know early 2000s right uh or the late 90s because it just
wasn't appealing to them right and so the percentage of female gamers
aside from the social aspect of it you know was going to be very low but now
you know generally speaking including the whole gaming market of like mobile and
stuff like that you know women composed 50% or in some
genres even more than 50% and that didn't come
because you know um how do i say they just
naturally came into the space because they discovered it it was because
you know the mobile games actually had affinity for them
to kind of jump in and so i think you know this entire thing is like okay
where are the web2 gamers and why are we not attracting them and stuff like that
it's very simple because we just don't have the games yet
that are up to par yet and i don't think there's anything wrong with trying
to um how do i say define and uh evolve and
kind of uh develop the player base the small player
base we have right now as those people who are giving us
this early feedback and you know testing sustainability and managing risk and
also you know having a gameplay that works with
its interoperable and so and so forth um and one thing that Andrew had
mentioned about like the 2.5 i i think we're just so early it seems
like 2.5 but like those games that are kind of building out
with a complete model that truly are you know web3
not enhanced but i guess web3 native games
they're just not out yet right i mean they just they're just not out and i
i think when they do come out and again i'm not gonna like uh you know whatever
plug shrapnel here but genuinely i think a game like shrapnel when it comes out
in like two years in its full glory or a year and a half or whenever it comes
out you know then we're gonna have a real
debate whether or not you know this space really is attracting
web2 gamers or not right now i just think it's just a useless debate
because it's just not it's not the environment for them
i agree i agree with you and andrew you've had your hand up you left you
came back please go for it
you got it my internet crashed re-crashed and spaces crashed so i'm back baby
um so i just wanted to add one thing on the um
power options sort of uh commentary we were having earlier
uh i agreed with the comment that there is a spectrum
of let's say powerful things you can sell people as nfts and in games and it
doesn't have to be all you know a million dollar item that is
ultra powerful or nothing right there can be a spectrum in
there i think that there are some good options in terms of selling power to
players that can make this space more friendly for new players
uh that are we'll call them good options or fair launch
type of options and so that includes if you're going to sell an nft to people
pre-launch don't let it activate the power aspects of it
until launch and then once it does let the value
let's say from that nft slowly trickle from day one throughout like so
alluvium land for example is that way alluvium land is the exclusive place
where fuel can be generated which is needed to go
do these powerful runs in the overworld but that's only five percent of the
supply of fuel and it slowly trickles from day one
you have to like build a city and manage it and then kind of earn that small
percentage of fuel so you can make it more let's say fair
and it's it's not an exclusive uh kind of you get to hoard a giant pile of
the most precious resource on day one so there are ways to make more fair
like that if you're going to sell things like
characters or power impacting nfts make sure that they are of equal power
not greater than the starter set and if you do that paid option of
characters or guns or vehicles or whatever your game is
make the most powerful characters or cards or whatever it may be
available in a free rotation at all times the most powerful ones across the
ages actually did a pretty decent job at that point if you go play their game
free to play right now on rotation they have like the max
power options available for free players so nobody
could buy bigger power let's say in in that game i
think that's an i think that's a good way to make it fair or good for new
players to come in another item another idea is if you're
going to sell like a founder's pass or a battle pass
don't activate its benefits until launch like that's a huge mistake i see people
buy like the founder's pass and then they get air dropped air dropped
power impacting nfts pre-launch forcing post-launch users to enter the
marketplace to acquire them they're thousands of dollars it's
disastrous so don't activate the benefits of
battle passes founder passes pre-launch wait until launch and then one great
idea i believe it was from halo infinite that was
such a consumer friendly concept i wanted to share here
i was blown away by it their battle passes in that game maybe they've
changed it since then but their battle passes in that game
you can buy previous seasons battle passes
and grind those as you see fit so let's say you enter the new game in
season three you can go buy the battle pass from
season one and buy the battle pass from season two
and go grind those and you don't miss out on any of those
exclusive cosmetics or benefits the studio gets more revenue the gamer
gets more stuff to grind and the gamer doesn't feel left behind
because they entered the game multiple seasons in the future
so i wanted to bring those ideas up in the space because those are
the types of ways that you can provide power
to users maybe even let them buy things that can impact power pre-launch
but when your game launches and how you implement those on a design level
can be fair and can be good i just i just want to caution against this
airdropping power impacting nft's pre-launch
it's a huge turn off uh and i think that
i don't want to see great projects get sunk with the with that type of model
but you know why enter you're assuming that they're actually going to launch a
game so that's a big assumption
for those who are launching those though that's a really good point
i can tell you that airdropping power impacting nft's pre-launch
i'd say the majority of quote unquote major games
that people are regarding as the big ones are doing that
so you know it's not like it's a niche thing that
you know and maybe those games will never launch to your point maybe they
won't but it's actually a majority of the
industry concept that i'm seeing right now
and so that's why i kind of that's why i'm sharing my personal opinion on the
topic eluvium is not perfect on this just to be clear
eluvium did sell eluvium land and if you buy eluvium land starting on day
one of the game's launching you will get
a slow trickle of fuel like from day one right
which is part of the utility of buying the land so
obviously that's not we made you know you were able to buy power
let's say pre-launch but the point is you weren't able to acquire that power
in any significant way pre-launch you had to wait until launch
for that power to start and being implemented
uh slowly so you know it's not like eluvium is like on some high horse
over here not participating in like the hey you
can buy utility now and get value from that later thing they are
but i think it's just there are ways to do it that are creative
can offer the power can offer the utility but let's say it's quote unquote fair
let's say uh and how it's actually implemented
and you know this is something that i love about these spaces
because you know what you say is your opinion andrew is something that
is so important to be you know to heard because i remember
when i came into this space about two years ago
people were doing the same thing that people were doing because that was the way
it was done and it's really powerful to be able to
look back in retrospect and say we've learned to do better so don't do it
um jasper i see that your hands up yeah i agree it's in
an industry and it's infant and we haven't figured out the best way
but i uh i actually wanted because sentient talked about right now we
don't have any web 2 players in web 3 and it's just
out of curiosity of my mind i don't know if you
want to share it andrew but out of the 1 million
signups how many were web 3 native and how many were web 2 are is that
i i can't share the precise mix i can tell you that
a huge part of the sign i'm going to assume that a huge part of the signups
were web 3 uh during 2022 and now 2023
those signups are more way more web 3 focused
whereas in 2021 there's a lot more interest from new users coming in
exploring games and so i assume those signups were more web 2 focused
yeah because in in the end uh how i see it because we all talk about how we value
feedback from the community which is true but
when i look at it we all got into this space as early adopters because we see
the opportunity we like some part of the decentralization and
what it can do but if we cater only to that audience and
build our game around that where we can miss the boat as well so having
like web 2 feedback is crucial as well in my opinion and seeing
actually a million signups in web 3 makes it
how do i say it makes me feel positive that we already have a million and that
we can throw it further especially with some of the games that we're all
building i mean there there must be one gem in there that can
help spark the adoption but it's just me wondering
about the current web 3 players pool right now
thank you for sharing i mean if i were to guess
you know as far as people interested in playing right now in this space it's
it's probably 80 just spitballing here it's probably 80
plus web 3 people at this moment whereas the mix
was definitely heavier new users you know let's say you know 40 of users
let's say during the 2021 metaverse boom were new people 40 to 60
were new people just checking the space out for the first time
so the mix has gone from a much wider mix of gamers players
speculators whatever during the metaverse boom business people
etc during the metaverse boom to a much more narrowly focused web 3 gamer
audience that are actually using the games playing the games beta testing the
games today and so when we have the next boom cycle
here when whenever that is who knows could be
one year could be 10 i have no idea of people being
interested in this space um we'll see what the reaction from
mainstream gamers is i if they come in whenever the next
wave of interest comes let's say it's an apple headset
announcement that blows everybody away let's say it's a i don't know what that
blows everybody away whatever it may be it doesn't really matter
when they come in if they don't have games that they can play
for free that are triple a and have a simple onboarding process that's
as easy if not easier than what they're already doing in web 2
they're going to be out so i don't think we're ready right now
as an industry i think we need a little more time for these games to bake in the
oven and to be ready so i'm i think it's a kind of a blessing
in disguise that interest in from new users in the
space is lower right now we want them to come back and to give
this a second look um when the industry is ready and they
need to see in my opinion at least one triple a looking game in
every genre uh for for us to be able to capture
maximum attention and to have it be that real adoption moment
when is that going to happen i don't know but
starting this year with like alluvium's open beta
launch starting this year that'll be the first to my knowledge like triple a
looking game in the space that anyone can come play
and i'm hoping i'm hoping shortly on our heels
you know great titles like shrapnel er etc uh
are short on our heels to have an experience that's available to players
immediately thereafter because we need that
i i love that and it goes into like the first one of the first things that we
talked about which was who's here right and like
there's the the difference between players that play
for need because the the small amount of money that
it would be to you know play to earn and you know the united states is
actually transformational and where they are and i think like we
need to remember that and also like um you know consider consider that and
consider them you know gamers because even though
they um they're starting to have more and more choices and retention is going to
be a huge word even for the million you know
web3 native gamers that we have here because there's going to be other
opportunities and then if you add fun to the mix
or are they going to play you know like i just think about that often
um sinjin your hand was up and matt you your you your hand was up too but you're
the co-host booth i'll let it i'll let sinjin go first
oh thanks man i was gonna go anyways because i'm the
fucker i just want to go i'm not i'm not i'm not the polite one
here um yeah i just want to share i guess a
couple things from what i've seen and when i got into this space and and and
how much i didn't really understand and i thought i did
but you know um i think in terms of like getting feedback and and
changing and reflecting that in your mint and how you approach your community
and discord i think you should be as open as you
can for that because that is the part that really
touches the trading and the financial aspect of
this game development or game promotion or this kind of
positioning in web 3 and like everything in
trading and if you if you do day trading or whatever like that
you know you're looking for trends you're looking for how uh
the behavior of the market is and you know if something's working in the
behavior of the market right now you don't fight it you go with it
because the market is is whatever the market is it's correct
right you can't fight it if everyone's buying or everyone's dumping
even if you think it's incorrect in this kind of moment to moment
right you need to kind of be aware and listen to it and so i know that there
was uh that mint buy i don't mean to throw
around the susan and she's susan coming since she's great she's wonderful
you know you know her background you know 2k everything
and the majority of people who were kind of in the know about her mint
were saying it's it's it's not going to mint out it's too much
so and so forth and susan really stuck to her guns and said
listen we've listened but this is for the long term so and so forth and so in some
ways her approach was not a financial
approach to the way that she saw the minting process
but for the natives like web 3 kind of game developers are native web 3 game
investors types they felt like it was very out of touch
or out of sync where the market was and it didn't mint out
right and then now you have you know wildcard and everyone else minting out
really well but then they did a lot of changes
before and mad did you want to say something no like like i was just gonna
say like um i love susan as well she has done you
know she's achieved like more than i ever will but i think like you said
their team is there's not they're not like web 3 native so they didn't know
you know i'm not sure who their advisor web 3 advisor was but
obviously everyone in the world that was telling them look
it's not the best time you should probably delay but you know
yeah but you see susan also said that freemen's were the worst thing to do that
you shouldn't do freemen's and she had a big old hoo-ha about it and i love
susan too but i mean you have like she was i feel
like she's wrong there like you know well yeah and you know it's not even
so much about the freemen aspect of it it was just like
she didn't say like she didn't say freemen's are wrong she said some
people can do freemen's we're not gonna do freemen we're gonna do payment
and then the question would be you know was the the mint at too high of an
amount or not right and this is where you know
this is the correct thinking for this moment in terms of
if this is a financially linked part of the project
then it should have financial awareness of what's going on
now the the next problem though i've seen though is like
whereas then vcs or other people in the community are like okay
now here are these tokens and here are these nfts and here's this land and so
and so forth now we think that it should be like this
for the long term you should have this much admitted in your
your you know emission pool for your staking i'm self-funded
i don't give a fuck you know i have no legality stuff
about the staking we're not doing staking anyways so i'll use the word as
much as i want stay stay stay whatever so like then they're giving advice and
they're saying hey no you should do this because it's going to maximize our
return and then i would push back at that point
fuck you guys you know because the economy the game economy itself
it's not something that we are iterating or we're deciding on the fly
you know when shrapnel or alluvium or ourselves or
yes but when they're doing their games or everyone else
i'm sure if you're if you have a game design background
you didn't just decide oh here's some basics like specs and then we're going to
do it you know everything was already specced
out based on a certain problem or a certain
like goal that you want to have beforehand right
and that's like more of like what we'd say the economy side
right if i was to say and so in some ways
just to kind of be brief at this point which i've never am
is that you know there's the minting and there's the you know
the staking and the initial kind of raising and the initial positioning
which is very financial market oriented which
should have a lot of feedback and be very open and be very
you know responsive to the market but when we go into the
economy side of the game right that's where i feel like where the
native guys are still thinking that they need
to be responsive to keep up the interest but
once the game launches and if you still have a kind of
financial kind of mindset for your economy and you've made adjustments
right because in the financial sector it works
because that's you know it's it's dictated by the behavior of trades and
and price and and so on and so forth but in economy it doesn't work like that
the economy is about transactions it's about revenue it's about cash flow
it's about retention it's about acquisition which is not financial stuff
right and so those are the kind of two distinctions after many months in the
space i've kind of understood and i've kind of and i've realized for
myself as well like the financial aspect of it i have no
idea what i'm doing i probably fucked up our mint uh you
know beyond uh possibility of correction and i'm just
moving towards the economy side and if the economy side is good then the
financial side should work out so sorry if i got right there someone
was calling me so i just wanted to kind of share that
distinction of which where i've seen it so i think a lot of web 2 developers if
you can get past the the the market part of it first the
financial aspect of it first and and have enough funds and and be
well positioned um then let your game do the talking
with the revenues all right i'll let andrew respond um
but since we're coming towards the end of the space i would say please
keep the monologues to uh to a minimum all right andrew you go
i was just going to say thank you for having me i have a meeting that starts
one minute ago i have to go to attend um i love these spaces
i love that we had disagreements and different perspectives this was great
i would love to come back and uh thank you for hosting a space where
different opinions differing opinions are welcome
and you feel really safe sharing something that may be controversial
this is how we improve the industry and i appreciate all that it's important
it's important to you know to have different sides of the coin because
for example i'm a very agreeable person but i also don't like echo chambers
so thank you guys you know for a civil civil conversation
um i was just going to respond one quick message uh one
one comment uh luke berkefield asked and he's you know he's also a
builder in the space and he asked how do you plan to onboard web 2 players
into web 3 we already covered that essentially we need it you know
let's worry about building the games first releasing
and then we'll worry about being bringing the players uh
you know we know we know like a thing or two i think everyone here
here knows something or two about how to bring players into ecosystem right
the other day i literally did a little meme on gta and there was and then i
woke up the next day and there was already one million
one million impressions of the two people saying oh my god
gta play to earn uh where can i download the wallet you know like they
were ready to risk it all these real gamers they were ready
so what do we need to onboard the web 2 gamers onto web 3
we needed that catalyst game first you know super fun games and then the
gamers will come you know no matter how many wallets and
rugs you put in their way they'll don't they'll make it into the game so
yeah let's worry about building out the games first like so i think anderson
said uh anderson earlier we're still a little bit early
even though if that's cliche or not but it's true right like we're still
in the building process but i think then in the next year or two
we're going to start making waves don't worry guys um just a little bit more
patience um hannah javelin any final words
thank you thank you thank you guys thank you andrew and guru and sinjin and
jasper and dj and dad and shrapnel um this has
been fantastic it's been insightful and i can't wait for the recording
because i you know i feel like this is knowledge that needs to be shared
and um and you know this conversation if you're you're listening
talk about it because this is a way that um waves get started through
conversations and i i heard andrew say this crazy thing
in this space that made me think about how you know all these games are doing
things and i'm going to talk about it in discord
and the conversations that you have are going to be
you know the small little ripples that that make the ocean move
yeah thank you for joining us don't forget to follow all the speakers and you
know everyone knows my story of how i came to what three
and i'm i still just beginner i really enjoyed listening to you
and i've already learned so i throw these spaces matt i want to say i'm sorry
for monologuing just send me hearts if i'm monologuing too
long because i'll know definitely that i'm
definitely talking too long i think you're good sinjin it's always
nice to have that in there by the way before we ended this i want to mention
too um pro bono no no cost to it sinjin if
you ever want to talk to uh true dj and get some feedback on
something that's going on in the economy hit me up my dams are always open man
thank you brother i'm more of that kind of old school casino poker DJ and i
definitely will hit you up for the the native young lud
yeah thank you guys uh can you hear me well right now because i can hear you
javelin yeah all right so i'm sorry to do her
not in the space i hope they will listen to the recording
and you know about my background i joined the gaming team
when i was 14 years are there like two spaces going on because i can't hear
anybody yeah no javelin is speaking sinjin and by the
way don't worry bro i i love you i just want to give a
shout out as well to gamified which is the next space which everyone
should join and and we'll get more of you uh in
there oh i can't wait for it but yeah let javelin
speak because you keep cutting him off all right javelin go
yeah all right no worries and i will listen to gamefight as well after this
space so i joined the gaming team when i was just
14 years old as an intern we were building like a game like a subway
surf and we were building on unity on c-sharp
and it was really interesting to me but i'm still beginning and i really love
uh to hear toes about this space about gaming i love watching videos from
gdc and it's really interesting to me and you know i will
ask last question and uh you know share some alpha about your project some
last announcements and please what advice would you offer to aspiring game
developers who are looking to start creating
their own game okay i'll i'll quickly communicate to sinjin
sinjin uh javelin said any alpha on my angry yakuza girlfriend and also
what would uh what advice would you give to game developers and
uh game developers in new state honestly talk to someone like
guru and um like don't be skeptical because like what he just said and how
he said it is completely fucking spot on and the
alpha is that once our alpha actually drops
we're going to have an awful drop for all the alpha testers and whatever you
play so i think um that's not played um it's not like
kind of um play for a white list but it's really
like play for our in-game tokens that are
going to come out so hopefully that will get all the deejans all ripped and
ready to go to really test out and break our game and
that'll be great thanks guys thank you sinjin
shrapnel what about you guys any alpha
uh yeah so uh our alpha is uh that we will be starting up our
um i guess web 2 marketing engineer pretty soon
we had myth who's a pretty popular uh streamer on youtube and twitch
out for consensus playing the game and we just got the
latest edit of his uh his videos so we're pretty excited about
starting to have um some of the web 2 creator community on twitch and youtube
uh firing up and talking about the game and getting in the studio and
playing it so you'll see a lot more of that coming out over the next couple
months alright and any any quick advice to game
developers coming into this space oh my god my
advice to anyone coming into web 3 game developer or otherwise
is listen to 80 hours of twitter spaces before you uh do anything
make any decisions hire anyone uh you know whatever listen listen to
twitter spaces find a a broad spectrum of opinions and try to
slide into some dms and talk to people because there is no
substitute for just living and breathing it for you know a week and
a half two weeks straight dude everyone's laughing but um you know
what i think this is one of the only spaces where you can reach out
to founders and they'll respond so definitely good advice
uh denimots jasper any alpha
yeah well first of all i really like that this is not like an echo chamber
space and where we can actually talk about different few points and be open
and discuss it and just be honest with each other as well
because we're all uh we're all rooting betting on web 3 to be the next
big thing and we have to work together and i think that's also one of the
advice that i want to give game developers since everyone in here is
so open and they take the time for you to do
meetings to help you out i know sinjin helped us out quite a
bit with just being straight up and honest
to us and then when it comes to the nemots we're going to be a 3 xp
and we're going to host a small uh little
not kind of like a giveaway you have to come play our game if you beat it
you enter a revel and it will be a nice price for you a
really well thought out price for people playing the nemots at 3 xp
awesome yeah huge promo um i guess i would like to give it to max
any last remains alpha and then we'll we'll finish with lazy soccer of
nice well first things first before i jump into the alpha just once again
want to extend the appreciation as well as opportunity to
everybody really appreciate being up here um i
was away for a couple of months here just doing some irl stuff
you guys probably know how that's like and then working hard on last remains
but um it's nice to be back on these spaces i love
chatting with all of these amazing minds from the web 2 and web 3 space
um i'm always open you guys my dms are open i don't have them closed if you
have any questions uh hit me up i have definitely been
around for a while and i love participating and just contributing
towards making this space what i truly believe it's going to be in the future
which is gaming not web 3 gaming let's be real
but as far as last remains goes uh actually we are going to be at 3 xp as
well and i was just on a call with the team
matt i wish you could be here because he would love it and we have some
incredible incredible stuff happening at 3 xp we're going to be running a
pretty big tournament there actually it's going to be a last remains
tournament i've already reached out to a couple of the kol's who've had a chance
to touch the game and a few who haven't we're going to have some main stage
presence we'll be showing it off exactly what it's like
so if you guys are interested in seeing what i personally am
very very bullish on as a competitive contender in the web 3 gaming space
really get put to the test and be put on the main stage come check us out
you will not be able to miss it it's going to be in the schedule so feel
free to come and check out the game you could be a participant
or you could just be a viewer i tell you guys definitely don't miss that i'm
putting out all the stops for it um so that's the alpha up on the board
but as far as advice goes you know there's so much good advice that's come
from everybody here i just i really want to put something out if
you guys have listened to me speak on space as i say this
all the time um we're early and you know i tell everybody this
being early is as much an opportunity as it is a responsibility
just know you know you guys have a really big plate of food you got a big
cake in front of you and if you want to eat it
it's going to take a lot of effort um there's nothing wrong with just taking
things slow with you know waiting for trends and
for systems to be refined and tried and tested to make sure that they work
you don't always have to be the first innovator you know
reach out to other people use other information to
make the right decisions and just know again it's the big responsibility trying
to be here early pioneering the space so give yourself
some credit cut yourself some slack and let's all
just make sure that we can make web3 gaming what it really needs to
be in the future so much love everybody it's been a pleasure chatting here much
love max yeah i'm excited for 3x i'll be on the twitch stream
too for all of you guys um so it's going to be really exciting i'll
definitely catch everyone there um i'll pass it on
to dig in that for lazy soccer any alpha and also
any advice yeah of course uh well um we're trying to
complete our trailer a very cool one just in time before
3xp as well as uh we do our best to complete our beta
fingers crossed we'll succeed with it but anyway we're gonna have
irl irl tournament uh on 3xp to test your soccer skills
so you should definitely find our booth and we're gonna have like some cool
prizes for best players and we're gonna
have like lots of fun yeah so uh as for advice yeah of course
uh well first of all i think developers should have
a vision they should understand what makes
the game unique and what what differs it from
other games because you know the market is overstated with similar games and
uh it will be really difficult to compete with others if you're just
like average game yeah and so you have you need to detail
development plan and you should try following it
because scope creep may be very dangerous
and so you should control your creativity
and control your schedule and budget uh of course you should build your
community because good community is like driver for your development
it's very important yeah so thank you guys
thank you that you joined this space and it was incredible
and have a good evening or day
thank you gindet and we are going to 3xp as well
i'll be watching stream myself because i don't have my ways unfortunately
i'll be watching stream with with matt and maybe we'll have
some stream it's right one day before 3xp so maybe we'll have some twitter space
about 3xp so really looking forward to it and
thank you to everyone who joins us today
and it was really great to listen to all these
toads and different really different points of use but
it's always interesting to learn about everything
in this space and we are teaching we are teaching
whole space with these spaces so it's really great
and you know don't forget to follow all the speakers cinjin with make
jazz player with nemo gindet uh
matt defies with weapons gaming anna with box stars game on
guru max with the last remains mtt and uh andrew wall with eluvian and shrapnel
and thank you for joining us and jave don't forget to follow jave
yeah don't forget to follow me as well and thank you for joining us today
matt can you please uh throw some sounding facts
100 and anna huge shout out to you thank you so much for
coming we know it's very late for you so thank you we appreciate you