Yeah, it's nice talking to the microphone is on mute. So let's try that again. Hi guys. How are you guys doing? Hey doing great. Thank you for having us. Yeah, I was wondering if it's going to start. I hope it is an issue with like my audio. Oh, no, like I always forget.
So by default when I start up a space it'll play the music or whatever but then I have to double click like I have to click the mute button twice because I guess once it just shuts the music off but it keeps it keeps me on mute and then and then I'll start talking and I forget to unmute that part but I swear I did a most nearly
every time I have to keep remembering not to do that. But yeah, so I guess we get started. If everyone in here, you know, I guess you got to start doing this now, but you know, like in put a retweet or send it to anyone that I think would want to stop by. But yeah, anyways, I'm excited to have you guys here. I mean, I've been on calls with I think you
both you guys like just individually and potentially maybe spoken on a space or two or hopped on someone's space or two while you guys were doing your thing but yeah I'm excited to have a little conversation with both you guys today and see what you guys are both up to
So, um, do you guys want to get started? You want to give another minute or so? Or... No, I reckon we can start. Can you guys hear me properly?
All right. Yeah, so and before we start the whole spanking so much roasting as always man, I'm always here to help on my Cosmos soldiers. So anyone that's like doing anything, you know, within the Cosmos realm of things, I'm definitely here to help and you know, just learn
and grow and help out and it all comes back one way or another to everyone that kind of has that mentality and I always just try to exude that in this space and to be reliable and accountable respectful. So like the way I like to get it going is just to do a quick little introduction
to yourself. I was like to know everyone's story and like how they even got in the crypto in the first place. So if you kind of want to add that in there before you say like who you are and like what what you guys are doing and all that, I just like individually how you guys got you know a little quick intro and how you got into the space.
Yeah, maybe I could go first. But yeah, again, I wanted to say thank you for having us here. I know this has been a long time coming. Appreciate all the efforts that you put for the space. We also had a potluck chat schedule at some point. I can't remember what, but I think you had some power issues maybe because of which we had to
video that but they are great to finally be here and doing this and thanks also to the plank team for helping set this up. Yeah, in terms of like my introduction, so I'm some Jeep, I'm the founder and CEO of leap in terms of my backstory into like crypto. So yeah, I've been involved in the space for the last like, let's say five or years now.
Like a lot of people who are starting their journey started off in the usual buy high cell low in one of the previous like you know and towards the end of another previous bull cycles thought that it is all a scam and then like left the space for a little bit. But I had been intrigued enough to sort of intrigued by the tech enough
to want to follow what was happening and so kept coming back on and off as like a retail user as somebody who's interested in a lot of ideas which were D5 and FDs all these were ideas like four or five years back and for me really the turning point was the entire like I guess D5 summer the whole 2020 period where on one side you saw so much adoption
happening on the D5 run so many really important primitives that were getting built out. And at the same time, you also saw NFTs, which was like a parallel cycle that's taking off. And one saw like, you know, really interesting tech getting built. But two, I think for me also, this was a period where I saw a lot of great talent moving into the space like people
people are really looked up to in the tech space were actually moving from web to people who would set up like you know long careers in web to sort of wholesale pivoting to web 3 and that's what sort of made me be close attention to the space and I started again getting in deep into into and that part was not cosmos this is more like that point was it was more terror
that point. But then very quickly realized from my own experience, plus a lot of like friends and family who I was also trying to get onboarded into this space that wallets were one wallet experience is very really broken. It took and I have somebody who's worked in tech for a long time. So I've been working in tech since 2014 and I was
like if somebody is walking deck for a while has been, uh, would struggle so much, then like, you know, it's, it's really not the way this space would scale. And so at that point, there were a few interesting experiments I would say we already in flight. A phantom had done a bunch of really cool stuff with wallets. Rainboots started doing a bunch of really cool things in EDM. So inspired by that, we felt#
opportunity to take this to other ecosystems. And as I mentioned, Tara was one of the ecosystems. We were sort of close. We're following. And so yeah, one thing led to the other. We spoke to, uh, we got connected with the TFL team, water grant and late 2021 is what officially kickstarted. We poll it in terror. Yeah, then the
to add to that, I mean, I'm a really big fan of TFM. I've known them for, I don't know, for a while now, it feels like forever in crypto, but it's probably a solid year and a half or so. And yeah, they just, they always ship. And so I guess like, did you initially get started in terror then? Like that's where your focal point was.
Yeah, and just to be clear that I was referring to like EFL as in the that that that foundation although, although EFM is on is also a team like we really love working with we've been working with them since the since the terror days, but yeah, it was the foundation that initially got the grant and got started there. And yeah, for the
the first six or months we were exclusively building on Terra. Actually, up until the Terra deeper event, we were fully focused on Terra. And then when that happened, and then we started a lot of other Terra projects trying to figure out where we go next. That's when we made the Switch to Cosmos. And since June of last year, we
Almost exclusively being building in this place man. Congrats. It's always it's nice to hear when people can pivot you know because like this space is very experimental and it's all new and you know sadly like Terra's whole UST and Luna you know Pagging was kind of like an experiment that kind of went wrong but you know a lot of teams
I'm glad today because both of you guys are mobile based. I'm not the biggest mobile guy, but I totally comprehend it and understand it.
most people don't have a PC and four monitors or whatever and I get what you're saying about the mobile experience. It's just not even just mobile but just wallet experiences in this space and it's really frustrating. As an avid user needing all of these different wall
it's to go on different ecosystems outside of like say I BC or whatever and I just know that there's a learning curve for people and I always think of myself the most usually the people that actually have a solid amount of money right now financially they tend to be on the older side of things and they barely
can use Web 2 as it currently is and it's like they're not going to be able to do this. So I'm always for people out in this space regardless of its cosmos based or not that are working on kind of bridging that gap of just Web 2 to Web 3 and making it more simplistic and better. I always call
a customer experience, you know better customer experience for the end user because if not then you know when there's friction and just like confusion people just get really frustrated I mean my job in real life I'm a tax accountant but I do a lot of stuff all my work is on the computer on the phone calls but a lot of this
stuff that I deal with clients and things, or just they are a little bit on the older side. And they're just, I hate to say, they're just like terrible at the computer. So basically that's just a big huge portion of the society that we can't really cater to, unless this technology gets a lot easier and we're still a long way away from it.
I'm seeing improvements drastically all throughout, you know, even just wallets and protocols and things like that. Sorry I'm optimistic. But yeah, sorry to kind of ramble there, but let's get over to Plank and get quick little intro on how you got into space and things like that as well.
Yeah, so I am Tom. I am the marketing and communications manager for Planck. I come from a web 2 background where I did marketing for Microsoft and Adelence and couldn't interpret it.
two years ago and at first I was just messing around with this super clunky touch exchange bitfavor. It's called super high fees and then I wanted some more. My friends were buying these crazy coins on Binance. I download Binance, most of the bunch of money there.
I think, yeah, bye hi. So low as for usual and then I don't know there was this one guy that was making like six-hook videos about air drops, right? It goes small and you're like you should have like five Juneau and one with five and
and Zeno's Moza, I was like what the fuck are all these things? So yeah, got super into Cosmos because I went, I did a little bit on Ethereum and I was like I'm not gonna pay 8 euros for gas fees, I know that's even low for Ethereum standards but I was not gonna do that.
So then I got into Cosmos and I used osmosis because I wanted to buy out of coins together with potential air drops and I just went like super high focus from that point. I was just only doing Cosmos at that point. I was learning about all the protocols
was watching all the going bureau videos and then I found script of Cedo and super invested in that as well. And then I think like eight months ago I was like okay I'm getting pretty good at this stuff and I really like it but I kind of want to work on something and then this Dutch theme comes along
long and they just spin up a Cosmos SDK chain, blank, mobile focus. I mean the focus really spoke to me because I always have to be on the PC and if you're not on the PC you can
never be early, you know, you're always late if you're not on the PC when it comes to things like yield farming or new protocols never accessible by mobile from the start. So I contacted them and I guess the rest is history and now I've been working with the plank team for
5 months or so and it's probably one of the best things to ever happen to me so that's a little bit about me. That's a great story so I guess we have someone of a similar entry point to Cosmos so you basically got in the Cosmos to Rosmos is that correct?
Yeah, because I wanted to buy all those coins to get the ad ropes and then I used those moses and it was so good already. Like one and a half years ago. It was already. June of 20 June of 20 21. Yeah, that's when it came out. Yeah, that was actually my entry point in the Cosm.
So like I didn't really know too much about Cosmos. I was like, yeah, I kind of got into crypto right after COVID happened because this is like the first time in my life I had free time. In fact, I was late off for a few months and I've always been like a tech junkie and invested in tech. Actually at the time I was invested in like all kind of different web 2 techs.
And like, COVID happened before this, like my brother was like, hey, me and you really need to get into crypto and he was kind of like telling me some stuff he was doing and I'm like, all right, yeah, yeah, like I was just super busy working like, non-stop and not having any free time and as an investor, I always like to know what I'm doing or like at least have an idea and a game plan and
So I didn't have time to really kind of dig dig deep in and then like traditionally just got in like Bitcoin, you know Ethereum and maybe a couple other the top ones where if you go on YouTube That's all they're gonna be doing is showing that it's like impossible not to find out about those ones but one of the youtubers that I followed at the time I
just like to style. He was like real low key, he wasn't shilly, he just straight up had, he just covered off crypto. He didn't care what it was or where it was, he just covered it, trying to cover good cryptos. There was no incentive with him and he would always bring up the charts and have all these like a whole list of his favorite toes.
and try to get you a good buying entry points. None of it was financial advice, but I just remember one space. This was right in June of the summertime of '21. I was like, "Hey man, outside the top, I think it was out of the side." I said that outside the top cup 200, what token is on your mind? What cryptic?
And instantaneously he said, "Awesome." And then I was like, "Hey, what's that?" And then he started telling me about it. And then after that space or or not space, but as YouTube, it was like a live stream or whatever, I went and checked it out. And I used it for the first time. And I was like, "Damn, that is smooth. I was used to you and you just swapping."
just like all clunky and crappy it was and just like one on Osmos, they said like aesthetically look pleasing and then like the transaction happened like instantaneously and then after that like I was like all right so then I you know like me being very curious and just doing my due diligence like I this is kind of advice for people if you are gonna invest in things like no
the founders are where they came from, what they did. That's why I always like to ask people when they come on the space, like, "What's your background?" That's one of the reasons. I just like to hear people's stories too, like how they decided to even get into crypto. Some are more unique than others. Anyways, I started them looking into sunny and Josh and all this. Then I got into
like what the hell is cosmos and what is the premise of it? Oh, the internet of blockchain's and it's just like philosophically and communitarian ones. It just like made sense to me like what it was trying to accomplish and then using the technology I was just sold I was like holy shit like I just became a fanboy boss Moses. So I started helping out. This is like good thing for people out
there if you ever listen, you're like, you know, I want to, you know, in my opinion, the best way to make money and crypto is to be a part of crypto. There's always opportunities because this space is growing so rapidly. And it's like a train that's just no matter what's not going to the rail. There might be hitches in the train, you know, the track, it needs to get fixed or whatever.
but this thing's going forward and we're super early still and there's so many things being built. And anyways, back to my story, I got really, just like, was like, man, this is awesome. This tech is good. And at the time, didn't even have a Twitter or a telegram. And I got those. And then I started helping out on
the first time I was like was actually earning crypto from like doing stuff in crypto and I didn't think any of this was like possible and then I just kept putting the work in and learning growing and just collaborating and helping and things like that like lo and behold you know now I'm you know doing all this stuff and it's something that I would have never imagined like
If he told me that I'd be doing any of this stuff a couple of years ago, I would have thought you're like bizarre like I'd be buying JPEGs and you know buy it all this shit and just like having a lot of fun doing it and I would change anything about it. Man, it was just a good experience. The only thing I would have changed is maybe not not converting everything over to UST and thinking that was like a stable corn of#
I mean, it's been a good ride and it's fun to see all the innovation because like when osmosis first launched I mean IBC was like nothing still was like okay you can just go on osmosis and do some swaps and you know maybe get some air drops and stack tokens but there really wasn't too much being built yet I mean there was things built but nothing you can
like kind of use and do stuff. And now it's crazy. There's over 50 live like L1s and it just keeps growing and you got all these teams that were built on Ethereum because you said that earlier about Tommy, you said about Swap and you don't want to pay the gas fees. And it's the same thing with teams, right? They're so restricted.
to Ethereum because it's like having a shitty landlord. You have to listen to this jerk landlord and I don't like Ethereum because I bullish on Ethereum though. But yeah, you don't have the freedom to do and freedom express yourself. You always have to be at the whims and mercy of someone else.
and Cosmos is like the complete drastically other view. It's like you can come over here and how you can build your own chain, have your invalidator sets. If you want an IVC enable you can if you don't, you don't have to. You can change the, you can modify the stack. There's just so much modularity to it and you know it just makes sense.
to me just like I said everything about it makes sense and I think I know where comes this going on the rails right now but like I think if like crypto is gonna work and go to like where we all believe it's gonna go which is interoperability there's just no denying it like cosmos and IBC and all that's gonna be like an integral part of it it won't be the only part but it'll
be one of the layers of the future of crypto. That's why I just keep my focal point in here and I'm just always grateful for any opportunity to talk to teams and just kind of help out and I get there so busy and I can just put the help put the pieces that are puzzle together. I'm just super happy for it. Anyways, I know that was kind of awesome.
the rails but that's like the coolest intro ever from all you guys and now we'll get into what you guys want to get into and let the community know what you guys are doing right now so let's kind of pin it back to that so if anyone wants to start like what is plank anyways like what is it so if someone's like what is it
All right, so what is Planck? I guess Planck is an EVM-enabled layer one Cosmos SDK chain that focuses on mobile adoption and what is a mobile first chain. So everything we do, we do with a mobile user in mind.
You touched upon this a little bit earlier. It is a fact that there are just many, many, many more people that only have a phone compared to a PC. I think we can all agree that the way to onboard the
Next billion users, first of all, I don't think it's going to be one chain, but what I do now is that we seem this interruptability with mobile phones because they are just many, many more of them. So yeah, in a nutshell, that's Planck. We're also very community focused. So that's also another fun element.
And then, uh, yeah, Sanji. Is that how you say it? Sanji?
Yeah, Sanji, that's all I can quickly introduce leap for those not familiar. So I think we are a non-custodial crypto wanted for cosmos. As it stands today, we currently support close to 50 cosmos change natively at this point. And this is spread across
like four of our wallet products, which includes the browser extension, which is a typical standard wallet product that we also went to market with, but also now expanded to native iOS native Android wallets as well as a web dashboard, which is like a portfolio manager come a web dashboard, it's sort of combined into one. That's kind of what
we do in terms of our general aim and goal here, we want to become a super wallet for cosmos, essentially acting as a one-stop gateway for all cosmos transactions and activities. And what that means is that as a user, we want users to be able to natively within a single
wallet interface be able to manage the portfolio, send tokens, stake, manage their NFTs, access DeFi opportunities, and everything else, right? Any on-chain transaction that's important to you, you should be able to natively do it as part of the wallet interface itself. And that's sort of like Binar Gold.
And the way we make this possible is through a base layer of experience that we built. And at the same time, there are also dApps whose experiences we've started natively integrating inside the wallet. And the combination of these two is sort of what makes for the super wallet experience. And then coming out to like, blank itself, right, and our partnership with client.
like what is really interesting to us and aligns very much with our vision also is the focus on mobile. We also believe from the word go that mobile experiences on cosmos are largely underserved. And so we've also spent a lot of time trying to polish and build up some of the features on our mobile apps and happy to like
you know, get into more details as we continue the conversation. But that's when we saw a lot of like, you know, high level alignment in goals with like the plank team and how they are thinking. I know like aesthetically, you know, you guys like it just looks good, you know, and I know like first move
is the capital wallet and I like capital wallet and there's a couple other ones but I think aesthetically the leap wallet is just like heads and shoulders above the competition and I'm not the biggest mobile user, I'm kind of
I'm kind of like a boomer in that sense like I can't say I'm a boomer but like I don't really like using mobile to be honest with you with anything I just use it kind of for Twitter spaces in realistic way but yeah that's but I like I said I totally understand I mean that's one cool thing about like technology and
And how it has brought people together, regardless of your geographical region, most people have a smartphone in today's society. And the younger generation and younger population, they tend to always want to use their mobile phone. So you're already building yourself in the future.
I know older people, they don't want to use the phone for anything. It's crazy. My job trying to get someone to send a PDF on their iPhone or what. It looks good. I like that you guys keep just being, like I said, the customer experience, one of the
the main qualms that I've always had with Cosmos at the beginning because they're all app chains and so anyone out there, app chain is literally a sovereign place and then you have all these different chains but they're kind of connected by what's called the same universal language everyone speaks to
same language. But what the data was really frustrating when I got into Cosmos, I'm blessed I have four monitors and I'd have all these tabs up and even that I'm like man, it's so hard to find data. I gotta go over here, I gotta do this, I gotta do that, I gotta do this. You guys have with your notification
and you have the propositions and it's all under one roof. You can bookmark and things like that. It's definitely way better aesthetically and just more convenient and less friction. Defeat hats off on that. You guys really
know that part of it because I mean even like you think about like Madamask and I know we're talking about IVC right now but like you think about Madamask right? It's been around for so long and even like their mobile experience is kind of like man you know and it's just you guys like when did you say you got started on the on the wallet
Yes, so the way it sort of turned out for us was, as I mentioned, right, the first six, seven months were entirely building on Terra. And then in June of last year, I mean, this was literally how it's almost one year to win, like, you know, a little over one year to win the Terra. Deepa given happened and last year, same time as when we were kind of scrambling
a bit trying to figure out where we go next. And at that point of time, we ended up talking to a lot of like change in cosmos. And Juno had also set up like a small grants program for like terribilters. And yeah, that's sort of what our journey came to be that we got a grant from the Juno fund that being set
up. And so in June, I don't remember the exact date, but I think sometimes towards middle or end of June is when we launched the wallet extension. So that was the first product we went live with. And then the apps, they sort of went live late in the year. I think there's a round of proven November that we launched the launch the apps and then follow that up with the web
dashboard as last part of the relationship. And then what I always respect in like this space and just like in general is optionality. So, you know, there may be someone that has a preference or what not, and it's hard to kind of cater to them. But I think
It's always good to have more options because if and also it just drives competition and competition always usually brings out the best in everyone so that's always good too, you know, like if you're leading, you know, you're leading in same mobile and Kepler is doing better.
and desktop or whatever, you know, whatever the scenarios are about saying that's the case, but just it drives innovation and demand and it doesn't allow complacency. So I'm all for, you know, I'm all for options in the space, you know, multiple
wallets, multiple protocols and things of that nature. But what do you think your key differential points that you offer that say Kapler doesn't offer?
Yeah, I think that's a great question. And I won't go into all of the features because obviously there's a lot to unpack here. But I think in terms of if I had to say broadly, what are the differentiators with Kepler, I probably bucket them into maybe three or four categories. In the first one that we realized earlier,
early on in the space as we started talking to like a lot of initial chains is that there were a lot of new chains that weren't natively supported by kept and so you could still sort of add them through what is known as the suggest chain route where a dab could add a chain into your wallet and then you can access it. And so yes, you were able to technically
except access Kepler, but the experience in that is like, you know, pretty broken. And that's sort of like, you know, what we heard from a lot of the foundation teams and users that we initially spoke to. And so to that end, our approach has been to like, you know, offer native support for as many chains as possible. And so right now that count is about 50.
And we have another like maybe 10 or change that we are talking to that we are going to integrate with next and obviously this is a lot of work because native integration across all products means that we'll actually go through all the workflows across all the products ensure that tokens are loading correctly, staking governance works, activity works in cases like maybe start getting
So we want to make sure NFTs load well. So it's a fair bit of work, but we think that like, you know, that is the, that is the sort of ideal wallet experience that communities of these chains want. And that's what we want to offer them. And over time, what we've done now is that we're actually also offering support to chains even before mainnet.
So for example, with like neutron, with stainless work, with some of these chains, even before they went like we were sort of already offering native support on their nets and test nets. So that even before like you know prime time, we have like the community has enough of a time to test what it experiences. I think that's certainly been one thing we've we've heard from the community as.
something people have appreciated. The second thing which I think we've spoken of a bit about is mobile, differentiation. And so we're going to a lot of details here, but two specific features, maybe I'll call out which we have seen a lot of positive feedback around is one is push notifications. So today what happens is if you have
Leap mobile app. Anytime there is an on-chain transaction for some of the most important categories like staking transactions, governance, IBC transfers, swaps and osmosis. So, for all of these transaction types, whenever there's an on-chain event, you actually get alerted through a push notification.
So for example, there could be scenarios where there's a new governance proposal and you could find out you might be finding out about it through Leap's notification system, right? And so that's something that we've actually gotten great feedback on. And then the second thing on the mobile side that we've done is that we've actually baked in a browser.
into the mobile app both on the Android and iOS apps. And so what this lets users do is any cosmos app can now be permissionlessly accessed on your phone. Right. We're talking any app across any of these 50 ecosystems. There are a few scenarios where
we might have to work with the DAP to just clean up the mobile experience. But the general idea is that like, you know, you just go to the browser. We also let you sort of bookmark your favorite DAPs smart search for some of the most accessed DAPs already there. But the idea is you're just like, you know, able to very natively without
any friction just able to access these apps and transact on them on your phone. So this is something that was the first or cost most and something that we've again gotten great feedback on. So yeah, I'd say this is a second category, essentially like this focus on mobile that we have. And then finally, the third category
I wanted to quickly touch upon it's something that we've started doing and hope to do a lot more of in the future, but we've actually started natively integrating experiences, which are not like native cost more experiences, right? And so what I mean by that is if you on leap today, go
to osmosis. So we change to osmosis. You will see that you can actually natively swap on osmosis from within the wallet context. So you don't ever have to exit leap at all. And it's not even that you're not accessing the app. You've actually natively built out the UI UX for swaps within the wallet itself.
So that's just one example. Another example maybe is let's say for change like say network, we've actually integrated a faucet inside the wallet. And so when you switch to say network, you'll see a tab at the top saying collect faucet tokens. Click on that and you'll just receive some faucet opens. So these are just a few examples.
of like native integrations that we want to build into the wallet, but our hope is that in the future we want to allow people to invest in BFI opportunities. We want to let people potentially like trade NFTs, any sort of on-chain activity that happens outside of the core, cost-most, native
modules, we still want to support this through the wallet. Again, this is something that we have heard in a good feedback about and want to do a lot more of these in the coming six months. Nice. So the only I will get it. We'll talk about like your integration with playing
as well. But my thing is to, so before I was saying about optionality and things like that, so me personally, and this isn't the bad mouth ledger, but they've been kind of under storm right now, and if you guys have heard about being able to opt in to recover your private keys or whatever, and they're
They're holding claim of fame when they started out with like, "Look, it's impossible for anyone to get your seed phrase or whatever your private key." So they've been under under works, but just me personally, like I haven't really been a big fan of Ledger, I've three of them. They all claimed that they were going to hold a battery charge and they never did.
And I'm just like the user experience like we're talking about before customer experience wasn't really good because every time I do a transaction I got to sit here and press a bunch of you know smash buttons in and so I was like that has to be something out there better and Like my favorite wallet I have is it's called a keystone wallet
which is like a hundred percent airgout and CIS QR codes and like it even has like options for biometrics and it like looks pretty cool you can even have like a pfp on and stuff and anyways I didn't know like with like again with innovation and competition like other you know players are
in the space now. I know, like, right now you guys have ledger, but is there any like future opportunities where you guys try to like onboard more? And if so, like, technically, like, how challenging is that? Like, I know, I know, uh, Kepler, they do have Keystone wallets now. Like, that's, they
they have interrupt. You're basically your Kepler wallet would just be like a watch only, everything would be scanned and approved and the transactions and stuff like that. I didn't know how hard it would be for you guys to say, we'll just use Keystone since I'm talking about be able to have that.
Yeah, I think it's a great question and maybe before I get to the specifics of that house, I just touch upon or maybe add to your point about optionality, which I think is a great point that you made and especially as wallet builders, what we've realized is that there is always a tradeoff between security and convenience.
And the end of the day you realize that just because every user is coming to the blockchain with a different purpose, the different sort of objective in mind, where they stand on the security and convenience trade off is very different. And so as a wallet, what we realize is that our goal is to cover as much of this spectrum as possible so that we can
meet like you know the user wherever they are comfortable and and so what I mean by that for example is that imagine somebody who's who has a big portion of their life savings in cost most they're investing in defy the way they think about security is going to be very different from let's say somebody who is just like you know playing a game imagine tomorrow
we have on-chain gaming and cost most and someone is playing a game there. The level of security is going to be vastly different. And so that's where we've always started imagining that we need to expand on both sides of this spectrum. So on one side, we've added in ledger support. In the next couple of weeks, we'll add ledger support on
So you can start using ledger on leap mobile apps and similarly we also have plans to add another hardware wallets. The only challenge we've faced there is some of these wallets don't actually support customers. So Tesaus is one that's come up a couple of times from the community, but the last we checked I don't
I don't think they have added Cosmos support just yet. I'm not sure about Keystone. We'll have to check that. But again, the goal eventually is we do want to work with these wallets and support Cosmos for sure. So I could tell you, yeah, Keystone definitely does. Like it has the option for
that. So just say you know, but yeah, I just I'm a big fan of it because like I said, I just like I said a tie of it because like I don't want to have to have a ledger plugged into my computer the whole time because that's the only way it worked and I know they're coming out of the new version and it's probably going to be a lot better and stuff like that.
But yeah, you'll get like that part of it, you know people but you know what I don't like ledgers and I'm not here to bad mouth and they're obviously a good start for for the space and I'm sure they're their newest addition whatever that comes out of private pretty good but this this case sounds just like my Brad and butter. I just really
was really good. It makes me be able to de-gen in this space like a lot more fun and more safe and just, you know, like it's convenient too. And so yeah, but anyways, now you guys are doing good jobs. So like back, like, let's, I'm gonna go kind of tip it over to like, plank. I don't think I asked you Tom, but
Like, why did you choose? I know you got into Cosmos because you were using it as a user, but is that what made you decide, like, let me just try to build something here too. And if so, how many people are helping you and how many people are on your team?
Yeah, of course. So I wasn't there when the chain launched, but I do know the story, of course. So the founders of Blank have been in crypto since the very start. They are like OG Bitcoiners. They were messing around with it.
then they had some ideas to build some things. And they'd always stayed involved, but yeah, real life got in the way. And they went to do other successful things. And like three years ago, they had this idea like the mobile experience
experience is still so bad. At some point we need to do something about it and they started working on IDs and then in 2022 they decided we are definitely going to do something now where we're
going to build it and then they obviously chose the... yeah, then you have the choice to choose the best stack and that is just why they chose Cosmos. There was a really good EVM capabilities already built out. They know Ethereum because they used Ethereum in the past.
So that was also just an easy decision to spin up a layer one Cosmos chain. Because the tech is just superior, we also see huge potential in the projects that are being built.
built here. There was already a little bit of mobile adoption from Kapler and Leap. So that is basically why we chose or why they chose to build on Cosmos. It's just a pure attack. Yeah, that's the one thing like I've been doing more and I always
I'm not sure if you're going to be a good guy.
like five days and you know mainly all Ethereum people and things like that and I was you know kind of be chatting with them and it's oh and I've seen you on Twitter I heard you and like and even them like none of them like I've I spoke to so many people there so many builders building some really cool shit on Ethereum and none of them had anything bad to say
about Cosmos. They all said they really liked attack and some of them even said we're working on building some things on Cosmos. That superior attack is obviously the thing. I think we've always had that
mantra, like if we're going to build it, they'll come and maybe that's a slower approach to the market and get more people familiarized with like what it actually is and what it can do. But like the builders in this space, whether they're building in the theory of Barcelona or wherever, I've met so many now at this point in time in my journey and
Not have anything bad to say they might say stuff about more so like maybe the hub not being like real organized like this and that more about business But not like the actual tech like everyone has like nothing but good things to say about the core technology So like I think people are positioned themselves and think you're not gonna have like dyd acts
and all these other entities using Cosmos if it wasn't really top-notch. But anyhow, so like, and there's things you guys are both mobile, like how's that integration going with you guys? And like what's the selling point on like what we can look forward to as the community?
Yeah, our partnership is obviously very new so we haven't started working on very concrete things. I know that we are currently focusing mostly on building out the
the EVM capabilities because that's obviously the tech that we heavily rely on. But we had some good conversations about things to come. And if I don't know if you can elaborate further on that.
Yeah, absolutely. So, I think your question about what's I think there's already a lot on offer for Planck and Leapride as part of the current integration that we've scoped out. So Planck has full support across all of our form factors. And so what this means is, especially on the mobile side, but there's a lot
also true for the extension, but being able to like see your plank tokens, being able to stake plank and best take I mean all of the first take of staking solutions including full suite of staking solutions including being able to re delegate claim your report and stake like all of that sort
the natively supported from within the wallet. We have like human readable activity for a recent blank transactions. So instead of just seeing transaction hashes, you see what these transactions actually mean. IBC transfers are already supported in app browser for blank daps are supported. So there's already like a lot of
integrated. So we are already sort of like no deeply integrated in that sense. And as I mentioned, there's a bunch of like further improvements that are coming here, which will also sort of translate to to plank and specifically on the mobile side. We are going to be adding in support for Bluetooth ledger. So that's one that we're excited about. There's a
also a bunch of other changes to the in-app browser that are coming in based on user feedback. So that's going to translate here as well. And then we haven't really spoken to Plank about this. I don't know if there's any plans for NFTs on the Plank front, but we are also adding capabilities for NFTs on the mobile side.
So if that's a fitress, then that's certainly something we can explore. And at the same time, we are also at this point of time doing some experiments around social logins. And so to our earlier discussion also about that optionality. So on one end, you have hardware wallets, but on the other end, you have users who want an
easier on ramp into Cosmos and so we're also exploring different solutions for like social login wallets and again that's something we'd love to pilot and test with blank users. So since I got an host before we move on I think it's also very important to recognize is that our focus and our
goal is going to be of course mobile interruptability but the fact is that Leap already made some amazing tools and it would be a shame not to align with such a great party and just do all the things yourself when like you don't need to reinvent the wheel drive.
So we are now looking with with leap like what's where can we align instead of us or them building the exact same thing right? It's way more efficient to just align with proper parties and see where that can take us so that's
Also something I wanted to add nice Yeah, man, that's that's exciting and then like I guess I've always had questions about wallets and things like that so I'm not here at like bad mouth Like say Kapler, but like what is it in tell so like when you go on Kapler and they have like the time
top ones, you know, like, okay, like I guess not that they're trusted. I guess they have to have they run nodes and infrastructure. But you know, like there's certain assets in crypto or in cosmos that are kind of like already on the platform. And then the other ones you have to add. So like, what's the, what's the, why is that? Like, what's the reason for that?
You mean in terms of chains? Yeah, so you know like I know you guys aren't capillary but like I don't know if this works the same way of you guys like you already have like your certain ones that you can see on on there but you always have to add Like a new chain or whatever unless they pay or whatever it takes to get on there, but like why?
What we definitely saw as a differentiating factor for us and still very much to is the fact that we are actually we are adding native support for different cost most chains and at the outset when we began building without a like you know these are all chains built on cost most SDK and so it should be pretty straightforward to add support for new chains but we will
realize that like you know that is often not the case because while in principle everyone's using the same modules, there are like there are like very different nuances that in terms of how people have done things. So to give you like a few examples right gas for example something as simple as like you know how do you in what
tokens, do you actually pay gas fees? It's something that changes drastically from chain to chain. Some chains only allow paying tokens in native denoms. Some chains like Osmos Studio let you pay fees in multiple tokens. And then there are in the chain like neutron, for example, Quaza, where maybe the native token hasn't launched yet.
and temporarily they are using a different native token to pay fees in. So it's just like one example but there are these subtle things that can change significantly from chain to chain. Another example is let's say like showing token balances. So something that we want we like to do is when you sort of land on
a particular chain on leap. We want to show you all your token balances including native tokens, CW20 tokens, factory tokens, IBC tokens, the whole bunch of them. And so that's where we also realize that like, you know, to be on top of this, you actually need to figure out what are the new projects that are launching on each chain. If they have tokens,
and make sure that you automatically add that to our registry. And so then these token balances start showing up. And so there's a lot of nuances like this. And of course, you can do a very simple bare-pone's experience, which might just work in some cases, which is what sort of Kepler proposes with the ad chain approach, where you can technically go
add metadata of a new chain and start using Kepler with it. But invariably, there will be some parts of the experience that break because of some of the changes that I mentioned. And I think that's the part that does take time. But it is what sort of makes the difference between like a 7 on 10 experience and like a 9 and a half on 10 user experience.
No, it's not only so like I'm just like on your website right now. Are you guys are you guys trying to integrate like other. Chains like I know nearest on there, but you guys it's just like a dashboard now. Is that going to be a part of like the the wallet to soon.
Yeah, great question. It's something that we think a lot about. We have thought a lot about in the past as well. So back when we made the decision to come to Cosmos, we also decided to do a few other experiments. So we ended up building a wallet for Avalanche.
eventually we realized that like you know our whole thesis for Avalanche was hinged around the idea of subnets and then we and having like wallets exclusively for subnets but we felt that that idea is probably a little bit far out in the future and so we sort of like you know shared that similarly we've done certain things for New York
But then we at this point of time to be very honest, I think a lot of our efforts currently and a lot of our conviction at this point of time is on cosmos. We have become like a cosmos maxi for the lack of a better world. But we do still think that there is value in in adding other ecosystem support. So often
time the community will ask us about whether we support EVM chains, whether we plan to support Solana. And so that's something that certainly is a matter of consideration for us. But at the same time, we also feel like there is still a lot to be done in Cosmos. We have like a huge list of ideas sort of constantly
streaming in from our community. And so for now, at least the short term on super hours is we still have our site set only on cosmos. At least for the next like three to six months, let's solve a lot of important problems here. And then depending on like where things start at the end of that period, we are open to exploring going to other chains. But for now,
I'm really a big fan of like your wallet and yeah obviously I had Kapler first and I still have Kapler but I have you guys as well and like one of my one of my things in this space is I have so many freaking wallets and you know assets all over the place and I mean I do that kind of just for security posture I know some people might do
that for air drop hunts. I don't really do that. It's just like if something ever happened to one of my wallets, I have like an OSHIT fun and I have one for this. Or I have one where it's like it's like a savings account. I'm never going to touch it. It's just auto compound. And I guess speaking of auto compound, is there, I don't know, because like I said, I'm#
like I do the just basically the browser extension on my computer. But is there any integration potentially with say like Yieldmas? Because I'm like a big fan of what they offer. Oh yes, big Yieldmas fan here as well. So that would be the cool Apple the air.
Yeah, no, I'm glad that you asked this question. So we actually so in my dimension that we also have the dashboard product. So on the dashboard product, we actually launched something that we're calling as the staking hub. So if you go to like cosmos.ly/follow.io, you'll see that.
on the left, so tap there, we have something called a staking hub right now. And what we're doing there is adding a few capabilities that have been slightly hard for us to build into like an extension form factor. So this gives us a bit more like leeway to sort of play around with the UI UX.
We've done two things here. One, well, very relevant to what you said, ours is we've actually added automatic auto compounding using reStick. And there's two players in the space right now, reStick and eelmos. So we do definitely have eelmos also on our list. Hopefully get to that soon. But right now,
Now what happens is, so let's say I'm in Juneau, I choose my validator, I choose a certain amount. And just before you hit stake, there is like a toggle, which is by default turned off, but you can also turn it on. And that just says, like, you know, give you a small message that you can earn up to X percentage higher APR with auto
compounding and so it's just like you know one click for you to toggle that on and and stake and yeah that is that is the general idea that like you know you don't have to go to again a different app I think a lot of people don't even know that auto compounding options exist in cosmos so without surfacing it in the staking workflow will make it will make
it easier. Similarly, what we've also done is that on the staking hub again, you see there's another tab for like, for liquid staking. Because another thing we realize is that a lot of people don't necessarily know about like, try quick sliver, some of the newer solutions coming up and these protocols.
all that also adding chains constantly. And so now what happens is you can just go to liquid staking and it will show you like you know all the liquid staking options available. And then you can just if it's available for the chain of your choice, you can just do it within the dashboard itself without again having to go to let's say stride staff or quicksilver staff.
No, like I really appreciate that because I think that's kind of like the future is building out like a really good wallet that you can pretty much do everything that most people can do and like that ecosystem without ever have to really leave the wall
it. Like I really firmly believe that's, you know, kind of the future of wallets. This having like a front, you just build an end to like every front end, like you're connected in the osmosis. You have like a way of restaking. You can also, you know, I don't know, like people like Oome and like shade protocol.
All these other ones where you can borrow and land and do things on there and just this is just basically anything that anyone would really use Okay, I want to buy an NFT so I'm gonna just one click I know with inner chain accounts So you know, it's a thing where you could just be like okay, why have some Adam or I have some Osbo or Judah or whatever
But I want to buy this NFT that's on Stargaze. I know it's in Stars, but let me just, you know, I know that my Junos worth this much or my Adams worth this much, which is going to be good to buy that NFT. And then like the wall that can just do all the transactions in a background, like, you know, okay, I'm going to swap
this Adam to Osmo and or this Adam to stars and then by the NFT and then you can see it on your actual you know wallet and then it goes in where you can view your little you know your little hoarding collection that you're staying and you're keeping all your NFTs and just right on your wallet
without having to go on all these different websites and then go see everything and that's kind of like in my opinion it's not even my opinion this is pretty much going to be the future like no one wants to have to you know like like me I have so many tabs up and I hate clearing my cash like I thought
I would refuse to do it because it's just like Rex made for like a week like all of my organizational skills are just like gone and I got to start from scratch and then I forget like I was working on a document or reading something and then I forgot what I was reading and but anyways like for like mobile they don't have the advantage
of being on and having 75 tabs up on four different screens. And then so like it's definitely for mobile it has to be like the way of the future is just like being able to do everything directly on the wallet without having to leave the wallet and go on like your Chrome or what
whatever and go on websites. And then for your mobile, and again, I apologize because I'm not a big mobile guy, but like, do you guys offer going like on websites directly through the wallet or does someone have to leave the app and go open up like Chrome and then go on a website?
So this there's like two ways to do it. This the one method that's closest to what you do on desktop is let's say you would access a particular tab on the native browser of your phone. Let's say depending on iOS Render you might be on Chrome.
Safari. So you access that particular app and then the app has like a connect wallet popup. Typically this is done using wallet connect is the underlying technology here and then they would have a deep link which essentially sort of opens up the leap mobile app on your phone.
You up to it and then you sort of come back to the app and then it's a bit of a back and forth between the browser and and and the mobile app is the standard way to work. But again, this is a little bit weird because you're constantly moving between two apps and because of that reason is why we've decided we decided
to prioritize the in app browser, which is what we spoke about earlier in the in the conversation wherein you have now the browser baked in within the wallet itself and so you don't even need to go to like a crow or a safari. So now what we've done is we've provided these deep links to DAPS.
which they can share it with their audience, pin it to the Twitter. And then the user just clicks on that link. It directly opens up Leap's mobile app with that particular app open in the browser. And then if you try to just connect your wallet and do transactions, it just feels like a very native experience because all your pop
or just transaction signing confirmations, they're all happening within that same interface as opposed to having to juggle apps. Nice, I like that. So I think we kind of covered everything like technically and just like question was and then
And this question would be for both of you guys. So for your community, what's the best ways of getting involved with what you guys have going on? And where do you guys key most of your focal point, like Discord, or Twitter, or Telegram, or just a combination of all?
Yeah, I could take that first and really sorry to both like awesome plan, but I do have a hard stop at the ars mark. So maybe I can just answer this real quick and I'll have to pop out. But in terms of like in terms of community, we're actually we have we have users teaching out to us
across all channels. So we have a very active discord that our team is sort of always on there. We have a telegram group as well. We also have a lot of people reaching out to us on Twitter DMs. I must say that's our least favorite method because Twitter DMs are like a mess in themselves. But essentially, we are open to getting feedback.
And here talking to our users wherever we can. We've also actually recently set up like an alpha users group where we realized that there was a set of users who were extremely passionate about wallet products. They have all these like new ideas that they were sort of bringing to us and we thought it would be great to have them all in one one small group so that they can also sort of bounce off ideas.
with each other and honestly it's just like two weeks old but we've been getting such great responses, such great ideas from there. So yeah, if anybody is also like listening in as deeply batched in about wallets, do messages, happy to add you to that group. But even otherwise, we are always sort of listening into what our users are saying. In fact, I'd say
So, we have this public road map and then people can go and vote for their favorite identity.
ideas or if this is an idea that is not on the list, you can also go and add it there. And this is huge inspiration for us when we build our actual roadmap and we are spent planning. So, you have for anyone listening in right now or is going to be listening in later, would highly encourage you to open to any of our community channels, look at our public roadmap and we'd love to hear from
you. Anya on that note, I will have to bounce right now, but it was great being here. Thank you so much, boss, for hosting and for playing for getting us together. Absolutely love working with the plan team. I think it's just a lead as far as there's a lot more that we can do going forward, but excited to sort of have
been here and spoken about our integration. Yeah, thank you for stopping by and for all the information. And yeah, this is probably, you know, one of many conversations in the future. I plan on being here doing this the rest of my life. So this is, you know, we'll talk again, we'll meet again. And I'm actually in that that leap wallet, little alpha group or whatever. But yeah, it's,
You guys are doing really good things, you know, I just keep pushing for keep working grind and building, you know, appreciate all your efforts that you've done so far. So, you know, on that note, I hope you have a good rest of your day and take care. We'll speak again. - And like, like, subscribe and go to the next page. - Bye.
You want to keep going for a little bit longer? I'll start. Yeah, you will end it with like what you guys like, you know, for for those that want to get involved and keep keeping touch and like what's your best resource of that? Is it do you guys prefer to this squad? Yeah, so we have a discord channel.
We're very active on Twitter and we're very active on Telegram but if I had to choose one it would be Discord. Discord's fun, it's easy so I used to interact. We shared a lot of allfother. I'm also keen to share a little bit of allfound this space though if you got some time.
It's easy to gouge people's opinions there, you know. Just do a quick poll. Do you like this protocol? Do you like this? This centralized exchange? Do you like this application? Should we do something with it? It's just easier on... It's easier on Discord to have a conversation. Yeah, so I'm a telegram guy because that's
For me, it's easier to like, because I'm a multi-guy, but I guess like internally for community wise, I think probably discord would be the preferable one on my choice, but it's just like for me, it's just a lot easier for Telegram because I can just create groups instantly and
But yeah, new here there definitely check out their their their discord and you know that that's kind of like my thought about The community side of it and for anyone out there, you know I was appreciate everyone it sends in and you could always reach out to me and I'm always here to help and Yeah, also like
Just get active because the thing is is you know like me for example I just use like my experiences Like I didn't think this was possible and I just put in the work and everyone could do it You just gonna be reliable accountable trustworthy and just put in the work and you can't expect anything either like I never expect anything like if teams help me out great
You know, but you can't expect things and things always come back to you one way or another if you're just respectful and reliable and putting the work and no, it's like just get a part you know be a part of the community so as you never know you're going to meet I've met so many cool people that actually like like I'm better than real life people so not the experience
guys aren't real life, but we're all kind of just in the matrix together and kind of just on the same wavelength, so to speak. And it seems like even when I meet some of my friends or someone I haven't seen in a long time, I just like always want to refer to talking about crypto and kind of like how crypto is just amazing and it's just good vibes.
in a bear market. I don't care. I've been around long enough to know that tech takes time and it's so speculative. I remember anything that's real big right now, we have to, at one point or another, they had a really bad down time where everyone thought it was done for
or whatever, like including the Apple, Google, Amazon, like all of them. And it's just a part of the course. Like we're all kind of early explorers. And it's just cool to be a part of it. And like what you guys are doing is cool. And just to be a part of it, you know. And then like for Alpha Wise, like if you want to share any Alpha that you guys got, yeah, for sure,#
Yeah, why not? Why not? So we are actually launching a Zoom new product this week still. That I guess we're going to announce here first. So yeah, if you're keen to hear that, I can talk a little bit about that. Yeah, go ahead.
Alright, so tomorrow we are communicating two things. One of them is a very easy token creator, a wizard to create your own token on the blank blockchain extremely fast and extremely easy.
That's all part of the bigger picture in the future. We think that that is going to be important because we want more people of course to build on on blank and data server, their own tokens too, but it's also just fun to create a meme token or mess around with friends and you can
use the wallet that we have in beta. You can use that to send those tokens around in the near future. So that's going to be fun. We're looking forward to that. And with that, we are also launching a web wallet interface to interact with those tokens.
in the future you can also build smart contracts around that. So those are the two things we are launching. Tomorrow are basically it's done and we're going to communicate it. So early phase still needs a little bit of polish but it works. And then yeah, what are tokens when you can trade them, right?
So we are also launching our own uni swap feature for to yeah, let people try those tokens also just for the long-jevety of the chain. I think that's super important to have in the long future. I don't think it's going to be like as big as as Moses.
that's also not our goal, right? But our goal is to have like this super mobile friendly quick swap function integrated into our mobile applications. And we prefer to do it in house if possible. So yeah, those are all three alpha things, I guess.
And then of course we've not been shy about that. We are working very hard on getting centralized exchanges. So we hope to share some more news about that next week. Nice. Yeah, it's always like when I first got into this space I was more like oh, you know, and I still am. I prefer obviously these
decentralized exchanges, but I do realize, especially right now in this kind of condition, it's a, it's a must like marketing, so to speak, like if you get listed on decentralized exchange, you're in this listing with all these other assets and someone, someone, you never know, like someone might just be curious, right? Like never even heard of you guys. Like, oh, let me go see what this is.
and go check it out. And that's kind of what I was picking the interest of leap earlier about other assets because it's fascinating how many people outside of cause mostly really don't know what's actually going on in cause most. And it always baffles me because I just always feel like everyone should know right. And I get it. There's so many things in crypto. There's thousands of different
change in applications and things like that but everyone that's kind of in this space just realizes like what's going on and how innovative and futuristic the technology is so yeah I mean that's cool get on the centralized exchange and yeah yeah you know that's just yeah you and I we love
It's super easy for us, but the reality is that there are people very interested in plank, but they're not gonna bother with osmosis creating on wallets. And then they need to deposit atoms somehow or osmo. And they don't know that token.
they just want to get their hold on Planck. It is just not feasible to only be on a DEX. And we also have ambitions to at some point. We are already a multi chain project. The Planck token you can also buy on Uniswap on Ethereum and PancakeSwap on the Binance Smart Chain. Right?
We want to grow, we want more adoption, we want more exposure, right? So that also means that that needs to be an easy way to buy your tokens. And while we believe that the atom is, of course most atom, most of them are going to win.
You still need to kind of be everywhere to get--
adoption. Right. Yeah, definitely for sure. So I mean, I don't know if you had anything like closing wise because it's I got to grab some food here soon, but I just I'm always the person of everyone shout out. We were talking about yield most early. I see cockos in this big. Yeah. He was gonna
You guys must have got the DM from someone saying that I was showing some yield notes. But now I think all the wallets should just have it integrated because it's awesome. Especially if you're really big into IBC and you just believe in it. Most people are, I've never once met someone and caused most of it.
I don't think there's a human out there that does that really don't. But anyways, you own a bunch of different things. And then they all have different times. Some of them are blocks, some are epochs. I don't feel like always having to click collect and then do it myself. It's just a life saver.
even just with your LP positions you can auto compound them to and it's just like I said I'm all about customer experience it makes the customer experience a lot better so shout out to them and yeah so like get that it leap needs I know he had to go on a call but leap needs to get that in there too I know they think they're using he said
restake but yeah get your mouse in there too. Yeah I wear also you look most gang they were super nice to us super early the besides that I mean it's a wonderful project right it's a really good application
I think they're also launching their own chains since I'm excited for that man. I'm excited for you know, they're doing good things. It's just like a good common good for everyone. It does it just helps out because like initially I didn't want to do auto compounding because I just enjoyed being like a completely degenerate clicking seven million buttons all day long.
But then I just like I can't focus on stuff like I want to work on other things and even that's like I'm trying to automate pretty much like everything at this point except for like when I tweet out and stuff but even that like all sometimes I'll create create the tweets and then I'll be like all right well I'm not going to be home at this time so let me just have it sent out at this time and like automate
I'm going to still grind, but I'm going to try to be more efficient and still go outside and work out.
and enjoy life outside the matrix, you know, and like you almost definitely helps out with that part of it, so shall we? Here we should get them on those places. Well, I like them. I like talking to them. But yeah, for me, closing remarks, join our discord, join our Twitter, though we very nice. Keep an eye on us. We have like super big
things planned and for any change out there, start working with false man. This guy has helped us so much already and I'm excited to also keep colliving with you man. Yeah definitely. I'm talking to some teams that are building some cool things
out right now. I think they're not mobile based so possibly we can kind of integrate what you guys are doing and lead to and that's what the thing is with all these teams like they're all putting it put in the code and working on things they don't really have as much time to like kind of business develop and you know if I if I can help assist in that manner I'm here to help with that
that too. So I'll put you on the list of what you guys are doing and yeah man like that's what it takes. It's really cool though like you'll get it like commutative and important and like all the chains. Yeah it's a little bit competitive but they're all they're all trying to be efficient as well. They're not going to try to build something
and then someone else is really doing, they're just going to be like, all right, let's just find a way that we could just integrate or build like an outpost, you know, one on another's chains and stuff like that and just connect. Like they don't want this monolithic approach, they believe in just, you know, you specialize in what you specialize, we specialize in what
specialized but let's like collaborate. So, you know, I love IBC and Cosmos. So, I'm here to help and wish you nothing but the best of luck, Tom. And everyone else, you know, have a good rest of your day or night wherever you're located at. And I hope everything, you know, goes well and take care of everyone. Thank you.