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Learn About Health & Psychedelics π₯π The Aggregated Ep. 125
Recorded: Aug. 15, 2025 Duration: 4:04:07Space Recording
Full Transcription
Thank you. The End Thank you. . Thank you. . Thank you. Music Thank you. . Thank you. . Thank you. . Thank you. Music Thank you. . Thank you. All right, guys, good morning on this beautiful Friday.
So we have GMGM, Nicole.
I'm excited.
Yeah, so we have more speakers coming.
We're a little light on the speakers at the moment for whatever reason.
I don't know if some are running late, and I know we have some others coming in the in the coming hours too uh different times
but uh yeah I think we can uh get started yeah yeah let's do it so I'm excited I know we've got
a couple of doctors so Brock do you remember the last episode that we did that was like
uh health and longevity and we had Aubrey de Grey come and Mihao. And Mihao brought a couple of doctors who specialize in stem cells and regeneration and all things alternative health, really.
Yeah.
So we have those same doctors rejoining us today, not Aubrey, unfortunately.
Maybe on a future episode he can come back.
episode, he can come back. But yeah, we've got some like really great professional physicians,
people who have done research with psychedelics joining. They're just going to be here in the
second hour or sometime later in this first hour. Okay. Sounds good. Yeah. So I guess maybe,
do you want to start with with our disclaimer for the episode?
Sure. You want to give a disclaimer?
Sure, sure, I can.
Don't do drugs, kids.
Yeah, well, so it's really just, you know, welcome to this special episode of The Aggregated.
aggregated and today we're going to talk about mental health and alternative treatments
And today we're going to talk about mental health and alternative treatments.
and specifically we're talking about this because you know a lot of people in crypto end up getting
overwhelmed at certain times i know that i've found i've found myself overwhelmed we've seen
countless influencers kind of go off of the deep end um over over the years and you know every
single person on earth whether they're in crypto not, is affected by mental health and the mental health of the people around them.
So we also want to make sure that we specify ROC, Aztec Eye, Quick Swap.
None of us from the LDA team are doctors, even though ROC and Aztec both have some medical training and background.
So we're not advocating for psychedelic use, especially not as a company. So this is for informational and educational
purposes only. Psychedelics remain illegal in the United States and many other countries
where some of our panelists practice. And in the United States, laws are evolving. We are hopefully
going to talk about that a little bit today
So people like US Attorney General Pam Bondi has shared her personal experiences with psychedelics for healing
RFK jr. Has voiced strong support for psychedelic research and treating PTSD and depression
Within 12 months and President Trump recently signaled openness to rescheduling marijuana.
So with allies pushing for similar shifts in psychedelics. So always consult professionals
and follow local laws. And yeah, let's like let our panel introduce themselves.
And like, okay, so let's do like 30 second introduction and then maybe binary answer
to the question. Do you think psychedelics can provide mental health benefits to some people?
Brock, do you want to go first?
Hi there, everyone. My name is Dr. Mu Amar Williams. Can you hear me loud and clear?
My name is Dr. Mu Amar Williams. Can you hear me loud and clear?
Yep, we can hear you.
My name is Dr. Mu Amar Williams. As I said, I'm a general practitioner in Cape Town, South Africa.
I'm one of the doctors that have connected with Mihao, as well as Dr. Daniel Blankenberg that was on the show a few weeks ago who spoke
about longevity. I practice in Cape Town, South Africa within a GP practice that has now converted
into a longevity clinic as well as a holistic, integrative and functional medicine type of
practice. So it's actually an absolute honor and pleasure to come onto a space
and get to share my passions and views and also patients and clinical experiences that I've been
a part of over the past few years. Thank you for having me. Fantastic. Thank you so much for being
here. And I think Rock, so I don't know if it's just glitchy on my end, but I know that he was.
No, he got rugged.
Oh, he got rugged. Okay. Is he coming back?
Eventually?
Yeah.
Okay. All right. So we'll just move on to our next speaker introduction. Sorry, I,
it's clicking over.
Yeah, there we go. Rock, there you are rock there yeah i was having connection issues so i
switched my internet connection good to go cool well we just started with introductions and we've
got one of me has someone who miha recommended is here he's a clinician in south africa passionate
about research and uh longevity psychedelics for healing. And now, Rock, do you want to start
intros? And then you can, because I can't see the order of people or who's the speaker and who's a
listener. Sure. I could quickly intro myself. So I'm Rock Zacharias. I'm the CEO of Lunar Digital
Assets. We're a venture studio that has worked on some of your favorite projects. We incubated Polygon and QuickSwap and LitVM and others.
Let's see, I'm a mentor of BitcoinFi Accelerator.
I'm head of Global Leadership Council for Michael Turpin's Bid Angels.
Oh, speaking of, we're having an investor party here in Puerto Rico
on the rooftop of his pretty cool condo this
Saturday if anyone is in Puerto Rico and wants to attend let's see additionally I
serve on the polygon grants board and co-founder of quick swap and co-founder
of Liby M I'm out of breath. Just kidding.
Who's next?
Who's next to introduce?
Matthew, you want to introduce yourself?
Yeah, sure.
This is a great space, by the way.
I'm super excited about this topic.
A lot of history for me here.
And not just in the debauchery type
of way and in a very um difficult type of way as well too um yeah so i'm matthew papineau uh been
in the space since early 2018 um been a freelancer running a venture studio for about three four years full time and uh advise on you know a large roster of projects uh have
you know found a lot of my cloud in the space through pretty high level business development
for top 20 blockchains layer ones um and worked with you know a decent amount of top 100s
in the space um like to spend a lot of time IRL at events and getting to know people
and really, you know, finding the visionaries in the space and helping them drive, you know,
their vision through, you know, connection to others and authentic relating and those type
of things. So, and yeah, the topic of the space, I am going to start to try to come out more to these aggregated spaces, a lot of cool people coming through, but I'm really, really looking forward to this topic.
You know, as a person that has had a lot of experience in my life, you know, with, say, the party side of things, but then also digging pretty deeply into alternative medicines or spirituality with substances
and without substances.
So I'm really excited to share experiences and talk about the topic today.
Thanks, guys.
Hey, thanks for being here.
I can introduce myself.
Can you hear me?
Yep.
Hi, my name is Ben, or my Twitter handle is Equation Persuasion at PhD Persuasion.
And let's see, I have a PhD in math. I'm a professor of statistics.
And let's see, I've always maintained an interest in psychedelics, which you might have gathered if you look at my profile or my profile picture, which is a pretty psychedelic fractal image.
And I certainly have a lot of experience and also curiosity about them. At one point,
I wanted to be a psychopharmacologist. I thought that developing your own drugs would be a pretty
super awesome job. And I'm also interested in evolution.
And I have a lot of experience.
I actually microdosed a variety of substances to gain my PhD.
I found it useful in my dissertation.
So I have a lot of experience and curiosity about the topic.
Oh, and I also happen to be a nerd girl's boyfriend.
Nice.
Yep.
So if you hear echoing,
that's why I kicked him out into the other room,
but from my end,
those are all of the speakers I can see right now,
but it could just be,
you know,
that because I'm a speaker,
I don't see everything accurately.
Are there any speakers on the stage
who haven't introduced themselves yet? I think that's it. Cool. Well, I know that there will be
more later, but just to kind of like kick this off. Oh, good. Now I'm a co-host so I can see
things properly. So just to kind of kick things off, I want to ask a question, like an icebreaker
question for our audience and our panelists. And, you know, if you don't want to ask a question, like an icebreaker question for our audience and our
panelists. And, you know, if you don't want to answer, of course, don't, if you feel like it's
going to put you in a precarious position, but hands up, have you ever used psychedelics
recreationally or medicinally? And at the end, hopefully we can have some time to share personal
experience. We're getting right into incriminating herself.
Well, you know, why not? We're here. You know, if you don't want to incriminate yourself. Why not? Yeah. Right. Right. I think you've said it before publicly. So, so like, you know, why,
why pretend that it's not true? Also, like I said, our, you know, in the United States,
we have numerous people in high positions of government authority who have publicly admitted to psychedelic use.
So I don't think that this is as controversial a topic as it used to be.
We've got a couple people in the audience also giving hearts and waves and stuff.
Oh, yeah. Okay.
So Panda, Darren, have you...
You criminal degenerate right Darren have you uh have you thrown up the audience poll yet not yet no I'll do that just let's let's okay let's do that a little in a
little bit um all right because we have still more people joining and it'll be, I think it'll be more fun once the show has like more,
more action,
more once we get ramped up a little bit.
Yeah.
Yeah,
for sure.
so question.
So like we,
I know we've got,
we've got a couple more doctors,
specifically doctors who me how recommended joining in a little bit.
And I don't want to go too far into all of those questions without having them here so that we can have more of a
discussion. But so let's just ask like about the global mental health landscape. So I know that
we've got some panelists who are either outside of the United States or who, you know, have
experience living outside of the United States at some point or another. And I, you know, have experience living outside of the United States at some point or another.
And, you know, my question is, like, we are seeing this major crisis here in the U.S. with,
like, rising depression, anxiety, addiction, and even psychosis. So are you seeing that similar
mental health crisis experienced elsewhere? And maybe we could ask Dr. Muhammad or Muammar Williams,
Dr. Sorry, I'm so sorry that I can't pronounce your name yet.
No, it's okay. Just call me Dr. Mu. Everyone, all my friends and colleagues call me Mu.
Awesome. Thank you.
Yes, continue with your question. I was listening in.
So yeah, so my question is like, are you seeing a similar mental health
crisis experienced in South Africa or any other places where you've practiced or, you know, lived,
experienced? 100%. And I think so. I started practicing in 2020 in South Africa. And that's
when I kind of started doing my internship and community service within the
government sector in South Africa. Within the government sector, it's a public sector, public
health, where most of the population within South Africa goes to a government hospital as they cannot
afford or access private healthcare. Within that space, I noticed how it just progressively got
worse. And in our fifth year of medicine, they actually warned us in psychiatry that within 10
years, and that was back in 2017, within 10 to 15 years, mental health is going to be the biggest
illness on this earth. That is going to actually
affect the most amount of people within our populations all across the world. And I noticed
over these past few years, it just progressively got worse and worse and worse with people being less aware of their mental well-being and their health
and neglecting it more and more as the times have turned into a space of online presence,
social media, AI now being a big thing, everyone working remotely at home from after COVID.
So it's definitely gotten a lot worse with, I feel, less awareness
as well to people. And so specifically, because you are in South Africa, and when I was looking
this up, so are psychedelics still Schedule 7, same category as heroin? Yes, indeed. The only, well, technically can't be categorized as a psychedelic,
but cannabis is the only legal plant here in South Africa. And my hands are in many different
projects and so forth. And I've partnered up with quite a few projects where they are still not allowing any research grants or any research
i'd say um projects being cleared for psilocybin and of course we do have two big companies within
south africa that do ketamine infusions but that's as far as it goes. They are still blocking majority of the research
proposals and everything else. So that's really interesting and something I wanted to ask a
little bit later, but maybe we can briefly touch on it now. So ketamine is, you know,
does have psychedelic properties, of course, but isn't classified as a psychedelic. So I guess my question for you
is like, so how do you classify psychoactive substances that maybe have psychedelic properties
like marijuana, ketamine, you know, MDMA as, or do you categorize them as unique and different
from psychedelics or do you kind of
lump them all into the same category? I think they do. All of them fall within their own spheres
as most of them, I'd say, fall within whether it's a downer, upper, a psychedelic, a euphoric type, they all blend within those spaces. I mean,
cannabis can be considered a downer, but also a psychedelic because of the euphoric feelings that
people can feel. And I think within, if we were to use the word psychedelic, it would be
were to use the word psychedelic, it would be a substance or a molecule that incurs perceptual
disturbances or disturbances within our consciousness and ourself. So therefore,
we can't, of course, put a specific, the tag name to all of these substances, but I think
the ones that do elicit or cause perceptual disturbances like psilocybin, LSD, mescaline,
wachuma, ayahuasca, iboga, cambo, there are many.
Whereas compared to ketamine, as I'm sure everyone knows, it's a dissociative drug that's used as anesthetic.
I still find it quite interesting when people mention ketamine,
they always say horse tranquilizer. But it is really interesting how even in my training
in the government hospitals, we would use ketamine on kids to put back fractures or
to do procedures to consciously sedate a patient, provide them with analgesia,
but also sedate them sufficiently enough.
So I think it also falls under the realm and the sphere of psychedelics
because it is a molecule, a substance that does elicit perceptual disturbances
in a patient or a person depending on the dose.
It's really interesting too, because substances like some forms of amphetamines as well too,
like higher doses of MDMA, you know, you can experience psychoactive effects as well too,
or like you said, disturbances in normal consciousness or altered consciousness.
So I think it's interesting because there's a bit of a,
maybe a bit of a gray area there,
maybe based off of the dosage amount or some of those aspects.
But yeah.
Without a doubt, I completely agree with you.
And I often like to
explain it with each substance there's a microdose and there's a macrodose and within that spectrum
it can range from different types of disturbances and different types of spheres of psychedelics if
you may say for each substance and then there is another powerful plant within that is actually found and originated in South
Africa called Scalitium.
The traditional name is Kana, and it is a plant that I have actually practiced with the
most in the last four years.
It is my favorite plant on this earth and it actually works in our body as an SSRI as a actual a chemical
antidepressant and I've managed to thankfully by the grace of God and everything over this past
three years switch almost 150 people off chemical SSRIs onto this plant-based serotonin modulator.
And that itself as well can't be regarded as a psychedelic in a microdose where it helps with mood and anxiety.
But if one takes a macrodose, you can elicit disturbances.
you can elicit disturbances. So it's just a good example of how all these powerful,
powerful plants and substances can work with anywhere along the spectrum and give
a person the therapeutic benefit anywhere along that spectrum.
So I've never heard of that one before. That's really interesting. And I just want to
probe a little bit further because I know that when people do, you know, things like ayahuasca or ibogaine in ceremony or really as far as as far as my experiences, anytime you're going to do like, you know, a ceremony with a psychedelic, there are specific substances that you have to have detoxed from for a certain period of time.
And I was under the impression that SSRIs were among them.
So is this unique in that it's because it's not chemical?
I completely agree with you.
It's unique.
And how I learned, how I was taught, how I learned through ceremony by,
I'm not entirely sure if you're aware,
but there's a traditional tribe within South Africa
called the Khoisan. They are the people that were first on our land before colonization, and
they are a huge tribe of African people that used this medicine in ceremony to open up for many different things. It originated as a plant they
would put on their hip in a leather pouch when they would go for hunting and gathering and they
would use this plant, they would allow it to ferment in their leather pouch and they would
walk for days because it would help with mood if they didn't
found any like didn't find any food or any shrub or vegetables that they could take home it would
help lift their mood but it would also help as an appetite suppressant and how I learned through
these koi sun communities that I was a part of that I stayed within their community for three months about
three years ago, I learned that this plant can open up to many other plants. It is regarded as
an empress plant and therefore it offers a hand or amplifies the effects of any other type of
plant medicine, especially those plant medicines that work on our mind and our
neurotransmitters. That's fascinating. Actually, so I want to go back a little bit. I know we kind
of just like jumped right into these questions about specific psychedelics and about psychedelics,
but since you come from, you know, medical background, I'm hoping maybe could you give us a brief context of, you know, the, I don't know, sort of recent resurgence in the medical use of psychedelics for the treatment of mental health disturbances? so a lot of the time any within psychiatry
and within psychology but mainly let's talk about psychiatry
which is clinical medicine within the sphere of mental health
they use medicine chemicals
that elicit certain and block certain
receptors within our brain
to help said patient with whichever disturbance or
dysfunction or dysregulatory they may have in their neurotransmitters. By supplying a patient
with a tablet, an antipsychotic, a benzodiazepine, an antidepressant, it allows the person's body to adjust their
dysfunction, their abnormality they may have in their mind and their neurotransmitters,
hoping to bring balance or hoping to bring regulation to the patient's mind, therefore hopefully helping with their symptoms.
And I mean, all of all of these medicines stem from plants in the end.
And with the resurgence and the power of all of these amazing and beautiful plants and their spirits,
which also block certain receptors and allow regulation and better control within a
person's mind and their neurotransmitters it's just going to show that the power of a plant it
doesn't compare to a chemical it doesn't block a receptor forcefully cause a reaction or a
consequence or outcome in our mind the plant forms a symbiotic, the synergistic
relationship between us and the plant which then supports us. Instead of blocking the receptor,
numbing or putting a band-aid on or forcefully adjusting our neurotransmitters, the plant helps us and our mind gain the support of the tool of applied medicine to help with that dysregulity mainly on mental illness. And I'd say definitely mainly on proving
that these medicines can also help
with all of these irregularities
and these abnormalities.
So what kind of, and by the way,
I'm just asking questions.
So if there's anybody else who wants to ask a question,
please feel free.
So we also do have Richard from LDA who recently joined the panel.
And I'm going to out him as like really not liking this topic.
So maybe, Richard, do you want to introduce yourself and say what it is about the topic of psychedelics for mental health or alternative healing for mental disturbances that you dislike so much.
So it's not necessarily that I dislike it.
So the reason why I have my vow...
Hold on one second, guys. One second.
Give me one second here. Let me get back to my house and i'll go ahead and i don't know if you guys can hear the
backwards there's cars and buses just going everywhere but it's just like kind of chop
you're just chopping in and out okay one second one thing i also want to mention, Nerd Girl, I think my colleague, Dr. Daniel, who was with you guys a few weeks ago, he had a family issue he had to attend to urgently.
He was actually covering for me at work.
He took some leave for the last few weeks.
And now since he's back, I've just taken Friday and Mondays off for the foreseeable two weeks.
So he was covering it today and then needed to leave.
So I think it will just be myself and Michal would probably join within the next 20 minutes or so.
Okay, no problem.
We're thrilled to have you here.
I do have him and one other person on the sheet.
So we have Dr. Daniel Blackenberg and then Van Wyk, Weehan Van Wyk.
Oh, yes, Dr. Weehan Van Wyk.
I must actually check.
I'll send him a message.
So Dr. Daniel, he's my colleague.
He won't be able to come here.
He called me prior to starting, and he told me if I could
just please sincerely apologize on his behalf of course no we're thrilled to to have you here in
his stead thank you so much so I guess while we wait for Richard to come back and be our like
antagonist I'm back now I'm back yeah yeah I was outside for a. I had to run to the store. But yeah, I guess I have my bouts mostly with psychedelics being used for, you know, curing people because, you know, we all know that back in the day during MKUltra, they use a lot of these psychedelics, these drugs in order to, you know, manipulate the mind.
to, you know, manipulate the mind and control, like it was an entire experiment in order
to, you know, cause like hypnosis.
And if you look at all the different things that we now have with technology, you mix
it with drugs, television, radio, frequencies, everything that's kind of going on in the
world, right?
And then you go ahead and you put the science to it with the different, you know, your synaptic cle so dull, numb to where they no longer feel,
or are we curing something that, you know, is normal or trying to cure? That's my main doubt
about it. I think Dr. Mu is going to be the best answer for that here, like, you know,
from a medical perspective, but I can say that it's like freeing your mind
from the matrix. And I, you know, I think that that's the most commonly, like, I don't know,
colloquial explanation, but Dr. Moo, please take over. Actually, if I could just jump in with like,
you know, an amateur, just take on that part on the freeing your mind. So I don't, I don't do this stuff often,
but like even pot, I think pot is great once in a while. I think Joe Rogan kind of, he has a little
bit, he kind of does, he talks about this where, you know, when you're going through your life every day,
I think throughout life, I'm adding my own parts into this, but you go through life and
as a civilized society, we are constantly putting these kind of defenses these walls these shields up we're training our brain to be polite to be you
know to think the way society wants us to think to speak the way we're supposed to speak um
and we kind of get trained and into this routine and we strengthen these kind of neural pathways
strengthen these kind of neuropathways. And I think what I've noticed with pot, psychedelics,
you know, mushrooms, um, actually the only one I've ever done is mushrooms, but, um, that for
that brief period of time, when you're, when you're smoking or doing an edible or doing some mushrooms or whatever, microdose,
your brain starts to go outside of that, that box outside of that normal way that you've been
trained to think, or that you've even, we train ourselves to think I'm constantly, you know,
changing the way that I speak or, or, you know, these things that, you know, as a public speaker,
you know, I call it perfecting my craft, but, you know, it's also like you're putting yourself in
these kind of borders, um, that you think, you know, people will respond well to like,
this is just the reality of life, right? You don't, you know, go on a date and like, tell them your innermost secrets or, you know, your crazy thoughts or whatever, right? We all try to, you know, you use these things, it makes your brain start firing
completely different pathways. And this, I've had several times where I'm like, you know,
you have these weird epiphanies where you're like, wait, why didn't I think of this before?
I've been doing this one thing my whole life, the same way, but there's a, maybe there's a
better way to do it. Why didn't I think of that? And it's just because once you do something so many times, you strengthen these pathways in your brain.
And then your brain is trained to go that path.
And then when you use these things, your brain starts firing some.
I think I've looked it up.
And I think you do start firing different neural pathways or something.
And you start thinking of things differently.
Well, I want everybody to understand like my perspective on this isn't necessarily the self-medication part of this.
This is, you know, my point is treatment, right?
And you never know where you're getting treatment.
I mean, like if you guys ever watch the news and it's just crazy stuff that happens maybe it's hollywood i don't know but apparently even like kanye's doctor or
psychologist was you know supposed to be some sort of like intelligence you know and it was providing
him with some sort of you know medication in order to you know do do whatever i i don't know he you
know these are just his conspiracies these theories i'm not saying that i fully believe that that's what happened to him
but i am saying there is a difference between the self-medication and then being medicated by
other people like the and either either to control them or just to sell drugs you know just to peddle
drugs right like didn't robin williams uh wasn't he on a bunch of stuff was it michael jackson i either to control them or just to sell drugs, you know, just to peddle drugs, right?
Like, didn't Robin Williams, wasn't he on a bunch of stuff?
Wasn't Michael Jackson?
I mean, a bunch of famous people were, like, you know, prescribed a bunch of drugs.
And, you know, it is a business, I guess. That's another factor here is anyone who's selling you anything, you should be remembering.
Like, even doctors, you know, doctors are their businesses too.
So you have to be careful.
100%.
We are very good salespeople in the end.
But to touch up, I agree with you, Rock, and I hear you loud and clear, Richard.
So, Rock, you were on point with regards to your way of thinking,
your patterns of thoughts and the habits that your mind goes through.
With Richard, I was just holding on to the points he talked about
with regards to the medicine really being, well, do our minds really, really need it?
And I can, from personal experience, the amount of time I spent in a psychiatric unit
in my training,
where they locked up these patients with schizophrenia, a lot of them end up having
substance induced psychosis as well, but due to methamphetamines, due to some people due to
cannabis, and that's just because they were genetically susceptible to having a gene
within their brain that caused them to have said mental illness. And I am a big advocate for plant
based alternatives because I have seen the difference between someone with depression
and I have helped so many people here in South Africa
with transitioning from chemicals to natural alternatives, so many of them report numbness,
so many of them report my personality has gone away, I feel blunted, I feel, and that is just
because the chemical medicine blocks a receptor and just blocks our being and our spiritual being and our emotional being from actually being aware, but it helps the mental space.
It helps improve our serotonin or our dopamine, the neurotransmitters, therefore helping said patient with whatever they're struggling with.
Or lower anxiety, etc.
Exactly, lower anxiety or decrease the dopamine or the serotonin
because they're too high, because they are in mania, because of bipolar.
I was going to become a psychiatrist, funnily enough.
It was my passion through med school was the mind and everything.
And then when I did the clinical rotations of psychiatry, it absolutely shattered me.
It scared me to see how I needed to interview patients every day.
If they still were sad, increase their dosage.
If they were still psychotic or they were listening or hearing things, add more antipsychotics, numb them more, completely zombify them up until a point where they're like, hey, I feel better or hey, I don't hear this.
Hey, I'm feeling like I can smile again.
Compared to the patients that come into my clinic now, recently a lady came.
She was on Xanax for five and
a half years.
She stopped working, practicing as a lawyer, she got divorced, she was constantly numb
for five and a half years because doctors just kept re-scripting the medicine, re-scripting
the medicine and not ever taking just a few extra
minutes to speak to her and her intentions. And she's now 13 weeks without any chemical medicine,
and she is beaming with light. She walks in there with a hip in a step. She says she plays guitar
again in the evening because she feels way more herself.
She's way more receptive to her son, to her mom, to her job.
Yes, she has ups and downs, but I constantly tell my patients that life is going to give us a whole lot of crap.
External stresses are natural. They are always going to be
there. But if we can continually work on our internal environment and allow these external
stresses not to throw us or sway us, we can use the power of these beautiful plants that have been
put on this earth by God to assist us as tools
to deal with all these external stresses and I feel that so many people whether it may be depression
anxiety bipolar insomnia whatever it may be the solution is self and not that tablet in that bottle. The solution is self and the with the help of psychedelics,
the medicine allows self to work through those issues, whether it's trauma, childhood trauma,
whatever trauma it may be, bring the plant, the tool helps us figure that out. And it comes to
a point then I feel Richard, where it's showed with so many patients of mine where the plant no longer calls for you or you no longer need the plant.
Instead of taking a tablet like an antidepressant or a sleeping tablet for the rest of your life,
and you always turn to that bottle as your solution, the plant medicine, psychedelics,
solution. The plant medicine, psychedelics help us realize that we are the answer and the plants
are just tools that help us. If I can put it in. Dr. Mou, I just wanted to jump in. I think that
out of anything is the biggest takeaway. Like for a bit of context, and i'm going to be like really um really plain and just
like uh vulnerable in this this aspect because um you know i've had a lot of years of work
um in regards to my healing process and my healing journey and um you know i've i spent
like a good number of years in my life um a lot of challenges with mental health, you know, a lot of substance abuse, you know, like a huge amount of psychedelic use.
And I ended up coming into a place of being able to move out of that in my early 20s.
You know, I did my first ayahuasca ceremony 15 years ago
and my first traditional peyote ceremony as well too
with a Pachi Shaman from the Southern part
of the United States and have since then have done,
you know, a number of ayahuasca ceremonies.
It's been quite a while and like Shipibu traditional style ayahuasca ceremonies with, you know, practitioners that have like, you know, ancient traditions and Iquitos and in Peru, you know, working with some of the most recognized medicine people on families and lineages. And this touches pretty deeply on Richard's point because he has a substantial point in regards to the fear and association around the negative sides and the destructive, unconscious sides of more of the darker sides of these substances and these practices.
Because there is a lot of
like uh you know villainous stuff that's happening in the world um and so the the reason why i wanted
to kind of circle back around is your final kind of point uh wrapped up into a connection um you
know connection to self right and so my my journey, my journey started with, you know, a lot of substance abuse,
a lot of mental health, um, stuff that I'm still consistently healing from for, you know, uh,
most of my life and then moved into, um, you know, deeper use of, uh, of these substances in a,
in a more respectful, more spiritual, um, conscious type of way that helped quite a bit, but then led into me working with
alternative medicines that weren't oral based, that weren't substances, because I started to lean
too deeply onto these medicines like ayahuasca and these other substances where they weren't
being the teacher anymore. I was leaning on them and I was depending too deeply on them for, for healing. And that, you know, led into understanding more deeply that we're all
fundamentally looking to find security in life, find freedom in life and find connection in life.
And we've been so, we've been so brought into this existence that's around distraction and whether it's food, drugs, sex,
you know, bad relationships, you know, blocking trauma, all those different things. And
it's led to me having, you know, a 15, close to 15 year practice with traditional
sweat lodge practitioners in Canada with the Mi'kmaq people here where they actually
have a very deep spiritual practice and it doesn't consist on using any type of substances.
They do sweat lodge ceremonies, they do fasting, they do drumming. It's all very
spiritual based, very ancient traditions, but it doesn't, it doesn't, um, you know, depend on any type of
substances or any of those things. And so there's a, there's a wide spectrum. And I think that the
big thing is, um, I mean, from what you're saying as well too, like whether you believe in God or,
or any of those things, it comes back to our connections to ourself and our connections to,
uh, our reality, right. Or the universe or God, right?
And we're all yearning for that
and how we find our way to that,
you know, or how we remember that we already have that,
that we're already there
and we have tools and habits and patterns
to help us not so easily forget
that we're, you know, children of God and we're connected to the universe and we're forget that we're children of God
and we're connected to the universe.
And we're this ultimate creative force, right?
That can have happy days, can have focused days,
can have relaxed days.
That doesn't always have to be proving ourselves,
always searching for worthiness,
always searching for connection or security
or any of those things.
And the farther we get away from that,
the more we need to depend on say SSRIs or other substances
to help us as tools to get closer back to what I believe
is God and those types of things.
And it's really interesting because we get into this space
of whether it's with SSRIs or say,
if you start to have a deep practice with, you know, teacher medicines in Peru and whether it's with SSRIs or say, if you start to have a deep practice with teacher medicines in
Peru and whether it's ayahuasca or the other teachers, the other plant medicines and those
aspects, a lot of people still find themselves leaning and depending too heavily on things
outside themselves to find connection to God, to find security, freedom, safety, those type of things,
when that all internally does exist within us. Not to say that we don't need help or we don't
need support because we all do, right? So I hope that during the process of you addressing me
there, you weren't trying to misdiagnose me from your own personal experience about fear regarding some of
these drugs and some of the methods of how they take them. You know, my simple point on, you know,
the reason why I actually see it in this perspective is because it actually happened,
right? I mean, these certain practices, these experiments happened. And now, you know, it's not necessarily the fear.
It's not that I fear that I'm being mind-controlled because if, you know, the entire world, right, the saying is it takes a village to raise a child, right?
There's so many different things that come into a person's life that can kind of direct them and mold and shape them the way they think, the way they feel.
life that can kind of direct them and mold and shape them the way they think the way they feel.
But, you know, coming back to, you know, the reality of it is you are taking a substance to
try to suppress a feeling. And, you know, it's not necessarily a bad thing to understand that
these feelings do happen. Sometimes, you know, you just kind of face the fact that shit sucks
sometimes so i gotta interrupt you i gotta interrupt you there richard i think that that
might be a fundamental misunderstanding of the use of psychedelics like for instance and and you know
feel free to jump in here anybody else but like i've never taken a psychedelic to suppress a
feeling that i've had i've taken a xanax to suppress a feeling that I've had. I've taken a Xanax to suppress a feeling that I've had.
This is the difference.
That's a feeling that I've had.
But whenever I've.
This is a difference though.
Whenever I've, whenever I've.
And I think like most of the medicinal use of psychedelic and psychoactive substances
isn't suppression of feelings.
It's actually so that you understand what's going on and so that you
can make changes in your day-to-day life. This is what I mean, though, the difference
between self-medication and then being medicated. I guess I didn't... Yeah, I didn't...
I wasn't talking on you specifically, Richard, so I hope that we can kind of come back to a place of, you know, just know identity crisis we all experience these different
aspects of ourselves that uh need to be need to be felt and we need support in doing that whether
it's through using substances or whether it's through getting into the cold uh the cold water
or into the sweat lodge or breath work or a quiet time in the woods or or whatever like whatever
your medicine is or whatever you need.
Some people need quite a bit more support with that.
But I guess for me, I can agree that there is a lot of,
there's a lot of respect and consciousness
that needs to be adhered to.
And there's a lot more education
that needs to be put out there
and a lot more education that needs to be put out there and a lot more support specifically
around um integration as well too and i'm sure dr mook could speak a lot on this because
um i think the the spiritual work that i've done in the past and i mean with the pharmaceutical
industry a lot of it is around money right the best type of healing that i've ever done whether
it was with ayahuasca peyote um whether it was in sweat lodge ceremonies whether it was a any type of spiritual uh type
of ceremony that i've done there was an exchange but the exchange was just enough to cover the
cost of the actual ceremony whether it was the tobacco or the food or the stay or whatever it
wasn't for profit so the actual monetary aspect was taken out of it completely to
create a... I hope there's just a difference of what I'm saying. I'm not talking about
being treated medically by a doctor for some sort of physical ailment. We're strictly talking
psychedelics, psychology, being medicated in that fashion. I don't mean it by,
you know, being treated in, you know, some other, some other way. If you have cancer, if you have,
you know, some kind of lung disease, who knows, you know, these aren't, these aren't things that
I'm necessarily, you know, poking at. So they're, you could argue that these are diseases and,
right. Like, and you are being treated for an ailment.
Yeah, why distinguish physical and mental? There you go. Thanks, Ron. Great point.
Richard, do you have an issue with, I don't know, an ayahuasca ceremony? I've never done these, but I hear good things.
I guess the thing that I come across is I have no issues, no problem with, you know, growing up, you know,
somebody growing up in the experiences and, you know, as they grow up, they experience something
with their friends, something fun that's part of the growing process. These things happen,
but, you know, having to go for a specific reason to go do this, to find something deeper, some other meaning. I find it kind of just strange, in my opinion.
I find it strange that it's like if you break your elbow, you go to the doctor and you get
treatment. But if you're depressed, it's weird to go get treatment to you. There are a lot of
hands up, and we've been going back and forth. Also, I know that Dr. Mu has not had a
chance to address some of these points yet. So I want to throw it to him. And then we've got animal
and equation persuasion with your hands up. I don't know who's first. So let's start to Dr. Mu and
then pick up there. So I really love Matthew's explanation about it. I hear Richard loud and clear as well. With Matthew,
you talk about your personal experience and I think that is the beautiful thing about
these plant medicines because for 15 years, you found these different tools and different
medicines that you turn to to help with things and at a certain point after 15 years, the plants told you, hey,
don't come seek answers from me. I've given you enough information and knowledge about yourself
and how to deal with things. Go do something as simple as a sweat lodge. Go learn about those
things. Go learn. Yeah, they worked as visionaries to give vision and idea and then said, go do the work yourself now.
That's what they said.
Exactly.
I love that.
And that's the beautiful thing.
Like I constantly tell my patients when I offer them these different plant-based supports.
And I'm a huge mental health advocate.
mental health advocate that's the sphere I find passion in treating the most
because often people come in for physical things and its manifestations
of distress mentally and I feel that these plant medicines and to go with
Richard to just incorporate Richard and his his points in as well I these
medicines are not for everyone.
I love how a lot of the times a lot of people mention about ayahuasca ceremonies and journeys,
but it's not suited for everyone.
And I think how practitioners, doctors, different types of people should be advocates for patients now to find the different options,
to offer the different options and inform the patient.
Myself and my colleague, Dr. Daniel, love telling people now,
I want you to be the captain of your health ship.
I don't want to give you something where I control your ship and say,
you do this for this
10 days and you come. I want to be at the back of you, guiding you, helping you, asking you for your
advice. And with the help of psychedelics, I feel like it now allows the patient to also be way more
part of their own ship. And I think that is the beauty of all these medicines and it
does not fit everyone's minds. We are all beautiful individuals on our own right on
this earth and in the end you and the practitioner would need to figure out which medicine could
potentially help you the most and And of course, within moderation,
you can't be doing ayahuasca ceremonies for the entire like continuation in
the last 30, 40 years of your life.
I don't think the medicine is going to bring you answers.
It may just bring you harm. So that's the beauty of it.
That's a really great distinction, right?
I think Richard was talking about the propensity for abuse.
And of course, that's present with like any substance, right?
Without a doubt.
Even with Xanax.
Even with antibiotics.
Especially with Xanax.
Especially with Xanax.
I've seen people do terrible things on Xanax.
Yeah, man, it's crazy stuff.
There was a guy, we were having a...
I don't know why Xanax makes people more likely to steal,
I think because you drop your anxiety barriers, you know?
Yes.
But if anyone...
I was an MMA fighter for many years.
And if you see my hand, you can tell.
But one of the breaks on my hand, my worst jagged, weird finger was someone stole a bunch of people's stuff from my house.
my house and I, we were looking for the stuff. And, uh, like, you know, my, I was in a fraternity
And I, we were looking for the stuff.
and my, my Zeta sisses were like, Hey, my purse is missing. Hey, my, this is missing. And some
guy was like, Oh, I'll help you. Let's find the guy. And it turned out to be this guy. And, um,
when I went out to his car and searched and found, uh, all of their stuff and my roommate's laptop
and everyone, I, I just beat the shit out of the guy.
I mean, these were my good, you know, female friends and I hit the concrete and messed up my
hand when I was on top. But anyways, the point is I've seen so many of these cases of people on
Xanax stealing stuff or just spinning out of control, doing way too much of it. So like, I guess a little rant there, but the point is
drugs can be very useful, right? I would say like caffeine is probably the most useful drug we've
ever found in the history of humans and maybe even changed civilization, some people would argue,
maybe even associated with like larger brains or, you know, are like some of the technologies we've had.
Some people would say that.
I don't know if this is true or not.
But the point is there are great things that drugs bring to us,
and drugs also are some of the worst things in the world, right?
We've seen the guy completely gone from fentanyl in L.A.
and all in LA, you might see that 10 times a day if you're walking around.
You might see that 10 times a day if you're walking around.
Okay, so before we get into the, like, and I've got so many, you know, questions written to talk
about the use of psychedelics for healing from addiction, animal and equation persuasion have
had their hands up for a long time. I don't know whose was first,
and I don't know how far back in the conversation this is going to take us.
Animal, you want to do rock, paper, scissors?
Go ahead.
Yeah, I think Animal had his hand up first.
And just to add on to what Rock was saying,
I guess rock probably got
uh probably got rugged but my only experience with uh xanax was years ago in university it was a guy
he would he was the one on xanax and uh he would just call me at like really really late hours and
asked to suck me off and it was like the weirdest thing.
And then he wouldn't remember in the morning.
And so I always,
I've always looked at Xanax and it's just like one of those weird drugs that
makes people do things that they probably shouldn't do like normally.
So yeah,
anyways,
animal.
What? Wait, why are you do anyways, animal. What?
Wait, why are you doxing me?
What?
Jokes, jokes.
No, bro, it wasn't you.
It definitely wasn't you.
I just got like glitched and had to come back,
and I think I came back to hearing he would ask me to suck him off
and then not remember it in the morning.
What is it?
I just got, did i hear that
this is either a good party or a bad party it could be either or
it does sound like xanax though yeah and he would apologize profusely in the morning
you know like at work or at the university so uh yeah i'm yeah, I'm like, man, I would never take Xanax, but anyways,
animal. Xanax is like crazy powerful. I mean, people just like, don't even,
I think that's what it does. Maybe one of the doctors could say, but I mean,
Xanax has meant, okay, so we have anxiety in life for a reason. Anxiety is an incredibly important thing to have.
If you didn't have anxiety, our species would be extinct.
We would all be dead.
We would have killed ourselves like fighting a lion or, you know, jumping off a cliff or something.
Anxiety is there to protect you.
The CIA says that there was this recent viral CIA guy that was talking and he was saying they look for people with anxiety.
It means you're more aware.
You know, it's a good thing, a good trait.
It means that, you know, you'll survive, you know, things like that.
So I agree.
They're your spidey senses.
Yeah, exactly.
I agree with you as well.
As well as stress.
It's good for us.
Absolutely.
It makes us get our things done, our tasks done. It keeps us alive and awake. And the same with anxiety. You know, when you hold back or you numb yourself or you revert,
typically that is because something has become very hard to manage externally in your life
and you're dumbing your senses to a point where you can move through something of pain and suffering
and continue with meeting your basic needs of survival or any of those
things. So a lot of people get stuck in those places from early in their childhood because of,
you know, being in some traumatic situations or ongoing stress in the home or any of those things.
So I think that's a huge part of the actual discovery and the journey of healing when it
comes to psychedelics or other alternative medicines is actually becoming closer with
those aspects of yourself
and not seeing them as separate from yourself or as a bad thing,
but more so as a part of the human experience for you to, say,
overcome or shed light on or, you know, accept or any of those things.
And so it's amazing to talk about these points as well, too,
because, you know, those are just a part of the human experience
that are very viable
because it just is right there's a huge acceptance aspect that we need to have in regards to that
i guess i guess my issue that i have with the acceptance part and it's not that i i don't have
sympathy or even empathy for for people individuals in in certain situations right
um some things can just be horrible. But I do worry in regards to
the legal standpoint, you know, once you are, you know, once you implicate yourself as,
you know, having, you know, psychological issues, you know, once you undergo these treatments,
there can often be times where they strip certain rights or they attempt to strip certain rights
from individuals. I mean, and these can go from, you know, just either being-
Or they use it against you later.
Exactly. I mean, that's why it's a very thin line when it comes to a lot of these different
treatments, the mental, the psychological, you know, treatment of a lot of this.
I think I heard a politician recently that they were, you know, of very right-wing people kind of bashed her specifically on, I mean, there were other bases to bash her, but one of them was, how could we make this woman the attorney general? She's openly talked about using mushrooms for healing.
Now, she is still in that position.
She was appointed to that position.
And I don't know how it's different from using that people have gotten psychological treatment or have had certain prescriptions against them, except for I don't know what the HIPAA classifications are. If like
these records are more sealed, I would think that they were, would be the same specifically
with the legalization or decriminalization efforts. Just out of curiosity, first impressions,
first thoughts, you know, somebody doing, you know, mushrooms for recreation and versus somebody
who's undergoing treatment for, you know, for something, you know, depression,
whatever it is, right? I mean, first impressions, when you see those two different things,
there's a define, you define that almost immediately. And those are definitely things
that, I mean, if you're going to say you do mushrooms, just say you do it for fun,
or you've done it for fun, rather than, hey, I this because you know i i don't i don't know obviously everybody but maybe they did i mean
there are some people that are actually getting it as a real treatment yeah that's why i had to
pull pull back there try i try to pull back on that right so i mean like listen i'll tell you
honestly i've done mushrooms for fun i've also done ayahuasca and it definitely was not for fun
um so like why should people have
to lie? But anyway, we are like totally dominating the conversation. Animal never got to make his
point. Equation persuasion never got to make his point. So let's bring it back. Let's allow
other people to get in. Thanks. No, I'm enjoying the space. I really, I think the fact that you
guys are talking about mental health in general.
I've had my own experience with mental illness and through my own anecdotal experiences, I feel like, yeah, the psychiatrists of our world, you know, the medical system doesn't really have our best interests at heart. It's just their incentives are misaligned with their own.
Something they hardly talk about.
And actually, I noticed that you guys haven't spoken about yet either,
is the importance of a healthy diet and exercise.
I noticed that in my own experience, when I'm feeling poorly,
when my mental health, my mood is down, you know, a small 15 minute workout is enough to pull me out of it sometimes.
That said, I mean, there are some instances where people need a stronger intervention than just that, you know, eating healthy, staying healthy isn't something that's easy for most people to do.
eating healthy, staying healthy isn't something that's easy for most people to do.
In fact, we're almost hardly ever taught how once we get out of high school, you know,
we don't have phys ed most of the time.
If you go to university, that's when like the bad habits sent to start with diet especially.
But yeah, so I had a question for Dr. Mu, specifically about methylene blue. This is something I've been experimenting
with lately after honestly seeing RFK try it on that plane. I've been doing it myself
and have noticed significant positive effects in terms of my mood and mental health. Something
about how it boosts your mitochondria
and enables it to produce more ATP or something like just better utilize the oxygen that you
breathe in. And I was wondering if you had any experience with it with your clients or
have heard of any of these studies and how it can help all kinds of mental disorders.
Great question.
And I want to touch up on your first point of how foundational and important something as simple as taking some exercise for 15 minutes can brighten your smile.
Or eating such a delicious piece of steak with a really soft avocado and just just makes you smile as simple as that you can
brighten your mood so so easily so I completely back you those are foundational things that any
person can do at home within their own capacity without needing to pay for anything or take a
psychedelic either and then to get onto your question about methylene blue,
very good question because I've had a lot of patients
come into my practice asking specifically for it.
And now here in South Africa,
I don't know if you've had any knowledge,
they are doing methylene blue via IV drip as well,
which is ridiculous because there have been no studies done on methylene blue thus far. I think
there's work going into it now that it's become so popular, and you are correct in saying that
it does help with our mitochondria, therefore improving us on a cellular level. It also has antioxidant properties. And then I think
the sphere or the mechanism of action that would intrigue you the most is so MAO inhibitor. So
our monoamine oxidase is a receptor that helps with quite a few of our neurotransmitters as i mentioned before specifically serotonin
dopamine and norepinephrine those are neurotransmitters that happen that move in between
our brain that help with our mood our cognition and it's said theoretically that methylene blue at higher doses can increase our MAO, as I mentioned, inhibitor, therefore
helping us hold onto a little bit more of serotonin and dopamine, therefore technically
helping you with your mood. But I haven't had any personal experience, so because myself and my
colleague Dr. Daniel are very, we love psychedelics, we love natural medicine, but we are also very evidence-based practitioners.
And especially with clinical evidence that's been done, we stay away from any of the substances that may come through our practice. Yes, it flags, we read into it, but we can't advocate for it if we
haven't seen any proof, if that makes sense. But you are not the only one that has mentioned that.
So a few people within our space have mentioned their pee goes super, super blue, and it makes
them freak out. But it's helped with strength, which is the mitochondrial aspect, and it has helped with energy and mood as well,
which is, as I mentioned, with regards to the neurotransmitters.
I hope that answers your question.
Yeah, no, totally.
And just for your own information, there was a study done in 1997
by the John Hopkins University,
and they gave
methylene blue to people who suffered
from schizophrenia
and they found that it
aided them acutely
and their symptoms were reduced
dramatically, although they did
come back as soon as they were off
the methylene blue.
Okay, understood.
Understood.
Okay, I see I'm pulling it up here. It's a psychosis. Yeah, I know you see that's the amazing thing. The more with getting this medicine trialed and getting clinical evidence to prove that they really can help. battle. And myself and my colleague, Dr. Daniel, are just grateful that us as young doctors get to
be soldiers in the forefront to push boundaries and push barriers and prove that these things
can potentially help a good amount of people, but not all people, I must admit.
So that is super interesting. And I think we're going to get into a little bit about like
DeSci and how, you know, cryptocurrency or decentralized finance can help to, you know,
can help to fund these things that are, that governments are blocking. But equation persuasion,
you've had your hand up for a long time now. Oh, yeah, I've got like so many different
questions and comments. I'll try to keep it brief. But one thing that I wanted to mention way back
when Richard was speaking about his concerns about drugs being used as mind control and MKUltra is I think the CIA kind of abandoned that experiment as a massive failure.
They certainly abandoned using LSD as a truth serum. And there are conspiracy theories about
how perhaps Charles Manson and Ted Kaczynski were MKUltra projects. I think it's not in controversy that they did attend LSD clinics
where they were given LSD, but the real question is whether they were some sort of Manchurian
candidate. And I think in the case of Ted Kaczynski, almost certainly not. There is an argument
that Charles Manson was a deep state project to basically give hippies a bad name. And I would argue that
psychedelics, well, for one, everyone reacts differently to drugs. However you think
drugs affected you tells you very little about how a given drug is going to affect someone else.
So everyone reacts differently. So I'm talking in generalizations, but I think generally,
reacts differently. So I'm talking in generalizations, but I think generally psychedelics
are mind expanding and do quite the opposite of making you more controlled by the government.
Now, it depends what drug we're talking about. Certain drugs do make the population more
controllable. We've all probably heard about how in the military, soldiers are typically given
amphetamines because that
turns them into better workers. I think in China, this is quite popular in, certainly in North Korea,
in making workers better workers. Although those of us that have taken Adderall have probably found
that we can use this to our benefit rather than, you know, say the government's benefit. But
back to the government, I think that one of the reasons that psychedelics
are illegal is because they make the population less controllable. There are even recordings of
Richard Nixon talking about criminalizing cannabis as a way to control the hippie movement because
they were sort of anti-government. Anyway, so i just wanted to say that from like an hour just
just to just to address that you ever heard of psychological warfare yes psyops right yeah it's
look at one hand while the other hand is doing another right i mean yeah and you can you can
also argue that yeah mk ultra is quotera is, quote unquote, has been abandoned.
I mean, there's just a switch of potential names.
I mean, you've got Guantanamo Bay for a reason.
These different places.
I mean, obviously, these are all just horror stories.
And who knows if they're actually true, right?
I mean, it could just be media just trying to come up with stories for their own self-interest as individuals.
It could be that it's true.
It could be just propaganda once again.
It could even be done, you know, we could even argue that it's done by another country to try to manipulate the minds of those individual citizens.
I mean, even MKUltra came from, like, the Nazis, basically.
MKUltra came from like the Nazis basically. Um, so, I mean, I would argue that, you know,
a lot of those different things, and maybe these are just the way that I personally look at this
and think about it. Um, and, and not to harp on anybody else's personal opinions or how they
self-medicate or, or how they get medicated and treat those various symptoms. But these are just certain things that I personally look at.
So can we transition a little bit,
just because I'm afraid that we're going to run out of time.
Can we transition a little bit to the use of, I don't know, up to you guys.
If you want to continue here, just let me know.
But is anybody interested in talking about the use of psychedelics for the treatment of addiction?
That was one of the things I was going to ask Dr. Mu.
Anybody else?
Is everyone okay with this?
Or does anybody want to wrap anything up before we were?
I'm very curious about Iboga and Dr. Mu, your experiences there.
out iboga and uh dr mu your experiences there um you know i i've like i said personally i think a
lot of people have different challenges with addiction a lot of people are you know uh
struggling in different ways um whether they realize it or not maybe through you know needing
alternative states of experience whether it's caffeine or nicotine or porn or sugar or or
whatever and then even deeper to you know crack or sugar or whatever. And then even deeper to, you know, crack or heroin or whatever.
So very, very curious about that.
And I think, you know, there's a spectrum of dependency and distraction that these things can help us.
So very curious about that.
Rock, are you okay with us transitioning?
Do you have any, like, do you want to say anything or have more questions there?
I was doing something in the background, but I heard most of it.
I think, I think actually Matthew kind of said what I have been kind of wanting to talk about a little, which it seems like, which is just basically that even like pot, like anything that you do too much is bad, you know?
And I think pot is like a very dangerous one because,
and I love pot.
I mean, I've, you know, I smoke pot maybe.
I got probably, you know,
I don't know if I should be saying this publicly,
but I'll say it.
I smoke it at least once every couple of weeks.
It's like, you know, on a Friday night working all week.
And this is a way to kind of get away from the stresses of having, you know, hundreds of employees and team members and people that depend on me.
And and again, kind of helps get your brain thinking in different ways.
But you don't inhale, right?
I don't inhale.
I did not inhale.
Is this why you sing jazz except on a Friday night?
Yeah, a little pot and some jazz, that's a good night.
You're bad, Rock.
You're a bad dude.
So that's actually perfect um in the in the conversation about addiction um and i don't
think that anybody like i i don't think that i can't speak for anyone else right but like
i don't think anybody is arguing for the routine use of psychedelics at least not
here um i think it's more like treatment and medication, but so,
all right, doctor, can you? Well, I just want to finish that thought, which is that,
so look, I definitely support pot. I think it's great in moderation, but I think it's incredibly,
this is maybe not the best word.
So remember, I'm going to be nuanced, but incredibly dangerous for people to think that pot is harmless and like, you know, this healthy plant that God gave us and all that.
And it is.
But if you smoke every day and you are super dependent on, on pot, your,
you can really fuck your life up.
Like I have watched way too many friends who smoke every day when they wake
up, they're super dependent on it. And, uh, it can really,
maybe there's some people who could do that and be okay.
I don't know very many of them.
If you're smoking and you rely on this to get through your day every day,
usually I see that cause a lot of issues in people's lives.
So there's this amazing...
Over and over again.
Terrible.
Pot and wreck your shit.
So there's this article.
I read it years ago, actually.
It's by...
So it's about a girl who was very into doing ayahuasca ceremonies and her
boyfriend was a pot smoker and she didn't like the pot smoking and he didn't like the ayahuasca
and one night she took some or she smoked some pot just to like try to understand that she was
like all right show me what your healing benefit is. Show me why people like you.
And she ended up learning a lot about it.
I'm going to try to find it and link it.
But yeah, we've got Miha here.
We still want to talk about addiction and the various ways that psychoactive drugs can be used for treating it.
And also their propensity for being habit causing themselves.
If I could just add a little bit more on the pot thing and just like the thing, the issue with it
is that when you do something like pot or alcohol or porn or video games or whatever,
these are all artificial forms of dopamine is how I look at it. And in life,
we talked earlier about how anxiety is actually a strength, right? But if it can be too much,
you know, and some people are just imbalanced or they don't know how to deal with it. And so
anyways, anxiety, stress, um, these, uh, these things are β I forgot what I was going with.
Oh, yeah, the pot.
A little tired today.
What was the pot?
Did you just book a join?
I might have.
I might have.
Just FYI, you're getting flamed in the comments.
We're still calling it pot.
It's a Friday rock, so I don't blame you.
All right.
I lost.
Oh, yeah.
No, artificial dopamine.
Yeah.
So when you do these things, you're like you don't seek real dopamine.
So if you are doing drugs all the time or even, you know, whatever, video games, porn, all this stuff, you, you don't feel the need to seek real dopamine. You don't feel the need to like, if,
if you were just bored and weren't giving yourself this artificial, including like YouTube shorts,
et cetera, if you were just bored, you, you know what you might do? You might get up and go to the gym you might like try to talk to a girl you might
uh go like clean the house you might do something for work you might call a family member like these
are these are real forms of dopamine these are your body dopamine is also a strength that
we're always seeking it and how do you get Well, before we had all these artificial forms, you would go out into the world and you would do shit.
But when you start smoking pot all the time, you just suppress your desire, your urge to get that dopamine because you have it.
You're just, you smoke a joint.
You've got all the dopamine you need.
You can lay down and watch a fucking show or play a video game or whatever it is, right?
That's all my point is. It's exactly that, rock. It's exactly how you explained it. So, so doctor, here's a question
for you. You've said that you've treated a lot of patients. You've helped people come off of,
you know, you've helped people with various ailments. You've helped people come off of
pharmaceutical drugs. Have you ever, do you have any experience or knowledge about the use of psychedelics for the treatment of addiction?
Not just addiction to drugs, but potentially, like Barack was mentioning, addiction to porn, addiction to anything.
I do have quite a bit of experience, actually, as a matter of fact.
I think someone at the beginning of the, I think it was Matthew, spoke about festivals and stuff.
That's how I kind of started my career in med school with regards to psychedelics.
I got an opportunity as a med student to work at a music festival to help with the first aid and the medical team.
And I was mind blown by the space where people were barefoot colorful and on all of these
weird interesting named substances and that's how I started finding out about psychedelics and all
of these things and from there I started volunteering at these spaces that are called
like sanctuaries for people who have consumed something that they didn't plan to, they got dosed or they're having a bad trip, so-called.
And I would be there to try and calm them down.
And that's how my passion started within the sphere of psychedelics.
At the music festival, they would have these sanctuary things?
At the music festival.
It's very common.
It's like all the international vessels like all over the world
that like have some type of clout or some type of like basis of organization or marketing or any of
those things they have like crisis care areas or sanctuaries or whatever because these are like
this is like the forefront of a lot of people's experience initially with psychedelics or other substances or drugs or
partying, and it's becoming more and more common now. And no one really, there's not as much
education or support or those types of aspects. So Dr. Mu, I'm so happy that you're sharing this
because you have the experience of two different angles here. You have the deep experience from
the pharmaceutical addictive side of things. also probably some stuff around probably other recreational addiction uh uh healing but then also
this side of things which is um you know kind of where in many ways it you know it formed for me
as well too where people are experiencing new things for the first time in their life. Yes. And they're maybe not in the right set, setting or place.
Like earlier, you talked about seeing how much your mind and your heart was opened.
And by being in a psych ward, you know, seeing people having psychosis episodes and then,
you know, having to diagnose them.
And they're in this awful, awful place, like in a psych ward,
not really comfortable, not beautiful, not a supportive place
for helping people feel what they need to feel,
more of like a trap or a cage, right?
Exactly.
You wouldn't even believe it, Matthew,
how at these psychiatric hospitals here in South Africa,
they literally put all the patients in the yard that have glass windows and they
just get dosed and they would just stand in the yard to walk
around, talk to themselves, fight, talk. It was like a cage.
It was shocking.
So, sorry, continue on your experiences at the, you were talking about the first
It progressed.
And now I actually volunteer.
I know you guys are very aware probably of Burning Man.
And we have a version called Africa Burn here in South Africa.
Yeah, I'm a burner.
Yeah.
So after this past. Coming up here in a couple of weeks.
I'm not going this year, but yeah, I am a burner.
So the two years, this past two two years I volunteered at Africa Burn and
this past year the first three days I worked at the medic tent and the sanctuary and then every
single and I helped so many people with GHB with cocaine with things they didn't consume and then
the following few days I put intention for every single day to work with, I like using the word work, work with
psilocybin, work with LSD, work with whatever it may be. And then in my passion and my job, my work,
I started noticing how these things, psychedelics and plant medicine, can be a good alternative rock.
You explained this very perfectly earlier with regards to pot, cannabis,
with regards to the dopamine-like source you get from smoking a joint,
then not needing to do anything else.
The idea behind the plant medicine psychedelics is to work with someone's addiction, to work with
someone's addiction, whether it be a beer, whether it be a line of cocaine, whether it be going onto
a website for porn, that's where they obtain their dopamine, their serotonin, those happy chemicals
that just make them go ooh la la and happy. providing an alternative source using a tool like a
psychedelic or a plant medicine that they then get guided to see that they can obtain these happy
chemicals from going into nature, from doing breath work, from journaling, even with a psychologist, with the help of a plant
medicine as a tool, they can rewire their brain to block those pathways where they'd
pick up that beer and get that dopamine, but to instead, so Skelitium, my favorite plant
in the world, as I mentioned to you before, one of my friends, you hopefully within the next year or two, you're going to be
seeing it pop off big in America, I pray to God. It's a drink called Euphorica. It's a glass bottle
that looks like a beer that has squeleteum inside. It's also got a gassy feeling and the idea is so squeleteam provides serotonin and dopamine
instead of a patient turning to that beer they crack the bottle open of squeleteam and they
provide their body with and their mind with the same happy chemicals that they would have with
the beer but they get to then with the help of CBT or realizing or doing the homework at home, realizing that they can obtain those happy chemicals from an alternative source.
And that's the power. There's the power within the plant not being the solution or the answer, but just a tool to help.
answer, but just a tool to help again, as I mentioned earlier, the person relies in self,
that I can do the healing by self and rewire my ways and my habits and my reward pathways
by using a tool like psilocybin. So a good example, I love telling people this story because it gives me so much passion and motivation about my path down this journey,
where this past summer here in South Africa, which is November, December, January, I helped four friends off their cocaine addiction.
And all I did was supply them with Scalitium, the plant, in extract version powder, in a nice little colorful vial with a spoon attached.
And I told them whenever they are in a situation with their friends or they're out and about and they end up, friends end up using cocaine in whatever capacity, use the Scalitium powder instead.
using cocaine in whatever capacity, use the
squeleteum powder instead. You can
I want to use the word snarf, but snarf is not the right word.
Inhale it through your nose. It's called insufflate.
Snort. Snort snarf.
Instead of turning to those lines that the other friends have
brought by. And I swear to you, all four of them,
one or two of them had a little bit dip and year and year, but they've been almost eight months
clean off cocaine. And I can't also say it was me. I am not the healer, but I am but the guide.
They did the homework and the hard work that they do at home and every day within their mind with the help of the plant.
And I am just but the guide to assist them.
As I said earlier, I'm behind the person helping them guide and steer their ship.
But in the end, they are the captains of their ship.
the end, they are the captains of their ship. And that's what I continually pass on the information
to my patients, because in the end, they then take the power of their own health or their own
mental health into their own, yeah, their own responsibility, if I may say.
Hey, I'm fascinated here. So I know that like, so Scaladium, this is the first time I've heard
of it. Have you heard of it being used for the treatment of like physical addiction?
Like, well, I don't know what things are like in South Africa, but in the United States,
you know, we have a huge problem with people dependent on opioids.
I lost a brother.
I lost a brother several years ago to this disease.
And yeah, I was curious about the use for that.
If you know anything about that, if you could go more.
Yes.
So funny enough, as I said earlier, my hands are everywhere.
My best friend, who's a farmer, a squeleteum farmer,
they're moving their operation to America, to North Carolina soon,
liner soon with the intent of having an operation there and the vision was for to target the opioid
with the intent of having an operation there.
crisis because I've got an opportunity in South Africa through Stellenbosch University which is
our second top university in South Africa to you know it was such a it was such a I don't even know how to explain it like a dream when I went back to the same hospital where those poor patients were behind a glass door and I met the professor in February and he gave me opportunity to do my postgrad masters in addiction care in psychiatry using this plant, Skelitium.
Because it's been proven they did a, I've met two practitioners who worked in South Africa,
who worked with about 250 people in the poor areas of South Africa with methamphetamine, TIC, also known as TIC here in South Africa, TIC use, using
squelitium as the therapy, having a 68% rate of said patient not going back to their community
to then go back into their old ways. So there's a lot of potential, I feel a lot of I believe it. And I've
seen it in clinical experience. I've seen it in personal experience. For myself, I use squelete
to help with my, I can't say cannabis addiction. That's why I hear you rock and I hear you loud
and clear. But I was a cannabis smoker for a good few years, daily, five years, through med school, and it helped with my anxiety.
It helped with my social anxiety, and then I came to realize that the plant was no longer helping me.
My relationship with the plant was abused, and therefore I was no longer
gaining the healing power of the plant. And squeleteum was the plant that helped me understand
about that addiction, and I used squeleteum in a format where it is smoked, therefore substituted the joints with the
squeleteum and a little bit of tobacco
and it helped me over a few
months to be completely clean
off cannabis. So
personal and definitely
in clinical experience in my clinic
and outside as well.
And just
from how you're talking about this...
There's a lot of parts in the audience let me uh
just have to count that out i just jump in for a second hey that's me how um so yeah uh skeletium
is kana so that's more known here right and there are a bunch of places to get it um you know dr the stuff you gave me back in south africa is still the left they remember the first day yeah
yeah um the the skeletium is absolutely uh it's a fantastic medicine it's like i this euphoric
i think which i you mentioned that i found it and i just i mean i hope it makes it here
and i hope this stuff doesn't get regulated because it's like literally it's like drinking
without drinking like you you get a little sort
of i mean it just depends on how much you take but like yeah you can get you pretty altered but
it's awesome i mean the best way i can explain is it's like it's like happy without without any of
the downside of alcohol like is the best way to explain it for me anyway. And so, Mihao and Dr. Mu, is this so like the most effective treatment for opioid addiction that I've heard of is ibogaine, but it's not gentle at all.
So it sounds like this is actually gentle.
This is way more gentle, way more controlled.
And the thing with ibogaine, I learned recently.
So I have an opportunity to connect with the ibogaine
clinic here in south africa and they have helped with heroin addiction with opioid addiction with
methamphetamine addiction alcohol addiction and yes ibogaine is a grandfather plant that will shock someone's brain properly. But I feel that it's one of those plants
with a very strong teaching spirit. And if it's not done correctly, I don't know if you've heard
about some of these, Nerd Girl, but there have been some deaths with ibogaine. Yeah, no, I have
heard that. I mean, it's actually why my parents didn't want to send my brother that route. They were really worried. Yeah. But I mean, it just needs to be
the practitioner, the person who will be assessing the patient or advising or recommending needs to
just be aware that Ibogaine is such a powerful plant, you need to go through a diet before you work with the medicine.
Because ibogaine stimulates almost every single receptor in our body.
The idea is if there's any issues or any substances that have been present, it can cause a negative reaction.
reaction. If you are susceptible to heart disease or heart issues, you are then susceptible to
ibogaine also potentially reacting negatively to your body. So if the practitioner then clears a
patient for all of these things, then I really don't think that the medicine can harm them.
Awesome. So I know everybody's tried to speak.
Equation Persuasion has its hands up.
I'm not even the host of this space.
I wrote the questions and advocated for it.
So I don't want anybody to feel like
I'm stepping on their toes here.
No, no, Nurgle, please take it away.
You're doing so awesome.
I'm sorry, guys.
All right.
And I love how you're guiding us through it
because, I mean, you definitely have a lot more understanding.
And I'm definitely kind of taking a backseat today.
More commenting, more learning than anything because it's definitely a fascinating topic that I've, you know, me and you have talked about in person.
And I'm trying to learn more.
I'm still on my health journey
i'd love to at some point talk about um sound healing yes for sure sound healing i love where
i love where you're going take us away both on my list to talk about as like
other psychedelic methods
before we go there let me call on equation persuasion.
Like you said earlier, this is my boyfriend.
He is a recovering opiate addict, and I think he's got a question about this.
So let me let him ask.
Oh, yeah.
I had so many different questions that I wanted to ask Dr. Mu.
I'll try to condense them down.
First, just a comment. You remind me a lot of Dr.
Gabber Mate. I'm sure you've heard of him. I mean that in the best way.
Yes, I have.
Yes, right. Yeah, I would expect no less. And for those who don't know, he is a Holocaust survivor
who works with hardcore drug addicts in Vancouver. And yeah, I wanted to ask about the treatment of addiction.
And also, in fact, more generally,
I've noticed you mentioned plant medicine a lot.
So I wanted to ask whether you have a bias
or you prefer natural drugs to synthetic ones.
Are natural drugs necessarily or inherently better than synthetic ones? Are natural drugs necessarily or inherently better than synthetic ones?
Oh, I have so many more questions. I don't want to ask you too many, but on relatedly,
are we still discovering new natural medicines? Where are we discovering them? What are some
other ones that we might not have heard about? And for educational purposes, how might
we obtain some scoletium? Okay, I'll stop there. No problem at all. So first questions first.
Just reminding what was your first question? I held the last two, three.
first question i held the last two three um if you have a preference for natural versus
oh yes understood so i'm currently myself and my colleague dr daniel are both studying
to become integrative and functional medicine doctors which incorporates all spheres of medicine
western surgical ayurvedic chinese medicine, homeopathic medicine,
and energy medicine, which is one of my favorites. So in my practice here in the waterfront, if a
patient comes to me and has a mental illness, I'm going to inform them of all the options they have.
I want them to learn and educate them. I educate them as much as I can.
I want them to learn about each option and then they make an informed decision as to which one
suits them better. I myself have an advocate for more natural, but I'm never going to push that on
a patient or someone who's sitting across from me at the table. I'm going to tell them about what SSRIs do.
I'm going to tell them about what naltrexone, which is a medicine that's used for opioid
withdrawal or diazepam like Valium.
I'm going to tell them about those options, but then I'm also going to tell them about
the natural options. And I think they would feel the energy that I, the aura that I show within my passion of natural medicine.
And I swear to you, 85% of the time, they are going to choose the natural option.
And a good percentage of the time when they come back with feedback,
they do feel a lot better.
And that's because they were receptive to that option.
The only way the plant medicine works is if the patient is receptive to it.
And I have to say that Dr. Mu's aura is pretty awesome.
Me, I'll put it Like what a killing recommendation.
Thank you so much, by the way.
So yeah, equation, equation, that's the, that's my vision or my belief within that sphere is I'm going to be an advocate for all sides, but I must admit I've seen the biggest changes
and the biggest success stories when it was a natural alternative.
And then to touch up on your one question, Scalitium is a plant that is grown here in South Africa.
Funny enough, it's extremely difficult to grow outside of our climate because it's a very, very special plant.
It's a plant that grows in winter funnily
enough um so if ever you are in need you can definitely send me a message i have a best friend
who's a amazing amazing farmer who has connected with as i mentioned to you guys earlier the koi
sun which is the traditional um the traditional people of our land, they've connected with the Khoisan Association.
So the Khoisan people are actually glowing this plant.
So the medicine and the extract you would receive from this farmer is grown by the people of this land.
And I find that is, that's the honor we give to the people that discovered the medicine,
and that has always put respect into the medicine, instead of just making it a easy pull that can
just be mass produced, put in a bottle and shipped along. And I think that's where the power of the
medicine lies, where the spirit of the medicine is still there
and then the medicine does its work with whichever patient i think that on that point is
fundamentally um one of the biggest challenges that we face i think in our world in regards to
our world in regards to the wellness journey and healing is that there is these four bodies,
the physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual bodies. And we've experienced such a disconnection
in this world from meaning and purpose and value and morals. And a lot of that was based in spiritual commitment and spiritual connection,
and which I think fundamentally creates a deeper connection to self and a deeper connection to self
creates a deeper connection to God. And so when you can actually find this, I'm so grateful that
you share this Dr. Moo, because some of my integrative work over the years, I have spent the past five years completely sober from alcohol, cannabis, all drugs, all substances, no working with any psychotropic substances.
I've done a lot of work with ayahuasca, a lot of work with those other substances I've spent.
all of last year completely celibate to be able to dig even deeper into my connection with sexuality
and how I was using, you know, sexuality as a part of, you know, masking deeper parts of myself
and not addressing deeper parts of myself. And, you know, the similar things around pornography
and sugar and, you know, social media, I could say right now, my biggest addiction is my phone. And, um, you know, those,
you know, I've had a ongoing, uh, challenges with nicotine where it has helped me quite a bit with
neurotransmitters and focus because I've chosen not to use, um, ADHD medication because I'm very
neurodivergent. I still have a lot of stuff that I'm, that I'm working through, but to kind of go back to the last thing that you said is like,
we're all looking for connection and security and freedom and safety. Like fundamentally,
most of the things we do in life is around that. And so when you have, when you find a pathway
to a substance that can help, that comes from such a naturally derived place, even to the point of deeply
inherent, heretical, lineage, traditional ways of growing and respect in those type
of aspects, you're connecting even deeper to the intentionality of the substance and
of the energy and the spirit of the substance.
Whether you believe in God or spirit or any of those things, it's as honest as you can get it. It's as truthful as you can get. And so that's where it can become
as impactful as possible. That's where you can actually, you can do one ayahuasca ceremony in
the most traditional, most sacred, safe type of way where maybe it's not going to this big retreat
center in Peru.
That's super well known. Maybe it's connecting with a 60, 70 year practitioner in his backyard,
in his little shed. And you're, you know, you're bringing him an offering of tobacco or,
or, or, or, you know, a little bit of money for the medicine and be integrating that experience for the rest
of your life because you've gotten to the truth of things, which isn't always pleasant or beautiful
or any of those aspects. So I'm definitely, I've already messaged you. I'm very, very interested
in talking to you more because I'm at a point of my journey where I've spent these past five years
integrating much of my visionary experiences with these substances and other things. And now I'm at a point of my journey where I've spent these past five years integrating much of my
visionary experiences with these substances and other things. And now I'm getting to a point where
I might be prepared to go back into opening up some of the visionary aspects of things and
leaning a little bit more onto these teacher tools. But I'm very, very, very hesitant about that
because I know of sacredness and i know of spirit
and i know of my personal capabilities so everything that you said to me has been very
impactful and in this space because it it beams with i i mentioned in the the message i sent you
i it's not that it's not the words of your knowledge it's the feeling that you make me feel
right now of your with your wisdom that makes me know that you're
connected to something deeper than the egoic parts of this industry of wellness and all these
other aspects that we're dealing with. And that's what some of my biggest mentors and teachers have
facilitated for me is that aspect of wisdom. Because like you said, you are not the healer.
We are our own healers and we have to do our own work.
And even to the point of you helping those people
with their cocaine addiction,
they had to step to the point of meeting you
and coming to you and talking to you
and keep showing up to derive those teachings.
So it's all our own inherent journey.
This is one of the challenges
with pharmaceutical medicine and Western medicine is we keep continually outsourcing our self
governance and our power to something external when even if you believe in God or any of those
things, all of the potential of the universe is within us through God, I believe, and our ability to achieve massive greatness and impact massive amounts of
positive change in the world and in our own lives. Right.
And so this has been definitely one of the most impactful spaces I've ever been
on. And I'm so grateful that, you know, that there's this, this mix, this,
this exists within the crypto space
and in the digital space
because we're literally on our phones,
interacting with each other in the digital space.
And we're sharing this type of knowledge
from a very pure, very honest place.
And I don't wanna take up any more time,
but I really, really appreciate you.
And I would hope if you can send me
an article or any connection that you have to the you know indigenous people that are that are growing this this medicine I would love to talk with you more and I'm even feeling even more called
to maybe come to South Africa and really maybe spend some time with you as well too because
I'm at that point in my journey where i know i'm about to start doing even greater
things in my purpose in life and do need some more new new support from mentors and people that are
deeply connected to spirit and and the truth of things so thank you very much thank you right
back at you just out of curiosity mihao question for you actually is uh dr mu a part of some of these stem cell doctors that you haven't okay
okay let me i was just been patiently yeah i'm gonna circle around this one okay all right all
right so uh you know first of all follow dr mu obviously he's great uh i'll i'll take three
minutes to just you know tell you guys how i ran into him. Uh, but he just, just started his X account today, like in time for
the space, uh, Dr. Dan, the other doctor in the practice and the third doctor, um, again, um, is,
uh, not with us today, but basically, um, I went, you know, I'm a big explorer. I'm super into home, just longevity, you know, bodybuilding,
psychedelics, the whole journey, just being healthy throughout, you know, and then just
creating everything through spirit. Like that's my jam. I've done all the psychedelics at this
point. I've also done probably like 300 sound baths. And so I host them at my house every week
in LA for a really long time. So I so I have some insights there, but, um, I went to
South Africa because actually my wife was like, we have to go there cause it's special. And, uh,
you know, we, we, we, I spent two months there. She spent three months there and Cape Town in
particular, uh, absolutely magical place in all sorts of ways. But like, I was just looking around
for like, Hey, I'd like to get, you know, try some, I think I went the first time I met Dr. Moon, I was looking for some exosomes for my knee. Um, cause I didn't need knee surgery before.
And then we went in the clinic and met Dr. Dan and Dr. Moon. And I was like, yeah, I mean,
this would be a really magical place to do a longevity practice because of the affordability
of it here in South Africa. And they're just the magic of the place. Cause it's like,
it's really magical. It's magical, both on the negative side and the positive side. Like you really feel humanity when you drive
through your first actual, uh, township and it's dangerous as well. Dangerous as all get out, but
like, you know, there's ways to be super safe in South Africa. So like, I completely recommend
Cape town. Um, but we did, um, sort of form a little team, um, called envision longevity,
which I'm putting the decks and investors together where we're going to have like a
longevity practice that does the stem cells, does the psychedelics, does all the fitness stuff,
does all the, um, peptides, uh, does all the supplements you should be on. Um, and it's all
clinically supervised and stuff. So like we've been slow, we've been slowly getting support from
the community on this. Um, and actually we talked about it on the aggregate and we talked about longevity
maybe a couple of months ago, but yeah, follow me, follow Dr. Dan.
And you know, in about a month actually after I'm done,
everybody on this team that's here, like, you know, very busy, like, you know,
lit VM launches coming up and then we have American fortress basically right
after that as best as I can tell on the schedule. So, you know, and so obviously I'm deep in crypto. I think you guys know me from that, but I super recommend we will make it, you know, a process that you can just come join the fam down in Cape Town and, and you can go see Dr. Mu and, and, and, you know, do the longevity protocol and then do the psychedelics at the same
time. That's exactly the kind of vision I'm going for. And in the meantime, you know, if, if you,
you want skeletal or whatever, even want to consult with Dr. Moo, no problem. Just DM him.
Uh, so I'm just here doing full on chill for Dr. Moo. Um, and that's all I wanted to say for right
now, Dr. Moo, thank you for, thank you for being here and being so magical uh you
know you're very you know if you're feeling the vibes over the x space the vibes in person are
pretty like way more intense so this is a so super recommend dr mu and dr dan and and vien they're
all kind of like different personalities um vien is our stem cell expert and he's just, he's also magical. I went
to the stem cell therapy that, you know, we'll be offering there as well myself. And I have nothing
but great things to say, and I'm just here to co-create and like make it awesome. So.
Yeah. Awesome recommendations last time and today. Sorry, please go ahead. I don't want to
make anybody else not talk. No, it's amazing because the trio of us,
Miha just walked in one sunny day with a cap
and asked for a NAD drip.
And after the NAD drip,
everything aligned as it needed to.
And he met my colleague, Dr. Daniel, who just started.
He met Dr. Vanwijk Vian, who's the stem cell fundi.
And we've now formed this trio of the three of us that want to get the access of this care to a
larger proportion of people. We are tired of 1%, 5% of people getting access to this care. We want to get the education of all these amazing
things out there. And the same how early on, Animo mentioned of his exercise and his diet. And
we want to show people out there that this new type of medicine can start starts within,
and it's foundational, it's simple simple things and all of the other added
things whether it be stem cells or psychedelics or whatever it may be are all tools that just
assist us to being a full person a good human being and a good i'd say key to the bigger society
and helping everyone actually as a matter of fact as a whole which is
really beautiful do you have absolutely well said sorry uh biohacking yeah or yeah to um to follow
up on nihao's comments about longevity um directed at Dr. Mu, who is clearly very knowledgeable on this.
I wondered if you had any biohacking tips.
Personally, I've always been interested in biohacking and nootropics.
There's the obvious ones like caffeine, nicotine, obviously sex and exercise and eating healthy are good.
obviously sex and exercise and eating healthy are good but what biohacking or nootropics or
longevity tips might you have that we may not have heard of so um the one of the most recent ones that
i've been oh it's been an absolute pleasure getting to there's a company here in South Africa called Super Mushrooms and they form these little
bottles of tinctures of three mushrooms and they're not even the psychedelic ones it's reishi
lion's mane cordyceps tremella and over the past few weeks five months ago I started stocking the
medicine in my practice I removed all the Botox, all the skincare
and aesthetics, and I've just filled my practice with mushrooms, plants, squeleteum, all these
alternatives. And one of the biggest biohacking, I'd say molecules that I've come across and done
deep research on, but also not only equation of just research,
but actually like clinical evidence by giving it to my patients.
I've switched four kids in the last one month,
and kids as in not like 11 years old, 7 years old, 6 years old,
who were put on Ritalin by a psychiatrist, are now on a mushroom blend.
And they are literally telling their mom and dad before their test, before their school,
please do not forget to give me my mushroom spray, do not forget to put it in my juice,
and they are off their Ritalin, and they are asking for their mushroom spray, and it is
not even a psychedelic mushroom so i definitely
think equation look into lion's mane reishi and tremella why do these things um continue on your
point but then maybe weave in um like why what is it about mushrooms what what do they do what is i
mean we know what like xanax does it i you know, probably blocks some neuro uptake inhibitor with some, you know, we know what these other things we like chemically do.
But what is it about mushrooms that makes them special?
One of the main things that's increased by not only psilocybin, but lion's mane as well, is our BDNF, which is our brain derived.
And so it's a nice, delicious molecule in our brain that helps our nerves grow.
So mushrooms have now been proven to stimulate, as Rock mentioned at one point earlier are the plasticity it's just
improve it's been proven now in there are a few studies done in japan to prove that within mild
cognitive decline it's been proven to improve our cognitive function by just allowing our nerves to regenerate and communicate a little bit. As you mentioned
earlier, Rock, the habits that you so easily fall into or creativity, that's why they say
psilocybin can help so much with creativity because it allows our brain, which is by far,
I don't know if anyone would like to argue or not argue, but disagree with me.
I think our brain is the most powerful machine on this earth, like by far.
Hell yeah.
There's nothing more powerful than our brain.
And mushrooms have been shown just to form this perfectly synergistic relationship with
our brain where it doesn't block receptors it doesn't force our brain to do
something but it supports our brain to improve our plasticity tremella which is regarded as
in ayurvedic medicine the mushroom of longevity because it literally it hydrates our brain.
It gives our brain more hydration.
And that can only be good for us.
It literally hydrates our brain to just function better.
And that's why it works so well for different types of things
because it only supports our own being and our own biochemistry,
our machine.
It oils it to function a little bit better instead of forcefully causing a effect well when you say it only it only could be a good thing
to hydrate your brain i would argue that's probably not that's probably too simple i mean like if with
anything you don't want to over hydrate something. And, and I would also argue if there's not
something wrong, then millions of years of evolution, probably our brains are like properly
hydrated other than if we're doing something to mess that up, which in our modern lives,
we do lots of things to mess things up. But so I guess it's probably not that simple,
but maybe you can expand. Yeah. Yeah. So like, for example, lion's mane and reishi have both proven in trials that they are antioxidants and they are anti-inflammatory.
And a lot of me and Dr. Daniel, we went to a longevity seminar this past week.
And it's new.
It was only the fourth one in Cape Town in South Africa.
And we had a panel of three of the top functional medicine doctors in South Africa talking about these different types of medicines and so forth.
And the inflammation and autoimmune disease, 70% of autoimmune disease in medical books are said to be idiopathic, which is,
can't be explained. You know, it just somehow happens. And a lot of the thoughts behind it
is now chronic inflammation in our brain, chronic inflammation in our body. So by the help of the
mushrooms reducing the inflammation and the antioxidant properties and the hydration properties, it can make the brain function smoother.
Aren't there mushrooms that actually take over the minds of their host?
They are.
That's from, I don't know if anyone's played or watched the movie The Last of Us.
Well, I think it's like an actual real world.
Yeah.
Like the zombie ant fungus. Yeah, it's a zombie and fungus like yeah it's a cordyceps
it's literally like does my control it's exactly that like cordyceps so there's even some reports
of mice being taken over by mushrooms but to be by the amount of um help that i've seen the mushrooms do in the past four months
i say we are long time away from those mushrooms taking over our brains are you saying that
there's a chance so that they could like infect and evolve and then take over our brain richard
over our brain. Richard, you're
going to be
symbiotic, right?
Mitochondria are not,
they are foreign to humans. They are not,
they didn't start inside of us
or any, like most species
for that matter. I mean, I'm just
getting more woo-woo with you here,
Richard, but
positive or
negative, I don't know.
In the name of science here, I mean, a lot of these plants, you know, fungus, they do evolve.
I mean, you know, through climate change, you know, through temperatures, through whatever environment, you know, people cutting down, you know, trees and stuff like that.
Or being introduced to, you know, chemicals testing, being introduced to a foreign person,
or just evolving from, you know, one animal to another in order because the fungus decides that it wants to take more control.
You know, you never know.
You mean like COVID starts in bats and then it jumps to humans?
Are you saying like these mushrooms or this fungus that takes over little ant brains might get into humans?
I mean, listen, I mean, it's a theory.
Don't fear yourself.
I mean, listen.
In case the mushroom takes over your brain.
It's theoretical.
It's theoretical, but I'm not going to say it's impossible.
I mean, I haven't done it.
I agree with you, Richard.
I don't think it's impossible.
I still have a samurai sword in my house in case the zombie apocalypse comes.
Well, if the mushrooms take over your brain, you're going to have to use that sword.
You're going to do seppuku or whatever that is on yourself.
Yes, seppuku.
Exactly.
That's my idea, Rock.
I'll tap out before.
Or you just go along for the ride, you know?
There's a fungus.
It's like if I were going to be taken over by like a cyborg or something, would I β actually, you know what's so funny?
Cindy and I had this conversation when we were watching Last of Us.
And she was saying like if, you know, she would want someone to kill her if she got the, you know, the zombie mushroom disease or whatever.
And I was like, I mean, sure, but i'd rather probably just live with it even if it
sucks i mean i'm a weird person that i would want to live if you put me and maybe i would change my
mind but if you put me in the holocaust or something i'd rather be alive and tortured
than dead and nothing if you can't beat them join them there's a there to richard to go off what you were saying as well
too fungus is really interesting because like it is incredibly adaptive there's this fungus that
grows like in chernobyl i guess like some of the most like um radioactive areas in chernobyl that
you know has formed over you know the last like 10 years or something like that that has formed over the last 10 years or something like that, that has started growing and actually digesting
and actually deradiating certain areas around it.
So yeah, it's really, really, really interesting.
When you look at how fungus actually grows in nature
and how it's like a bedrock of organic matter
and channels throughout the soil and how it brings like a bedrock of organic matter and channels throughout the soil and how
it brings nutrients to different places and it's it's really really really quite something but
i guess yeah richard anything is possible 100 you always have to be conscious of you know the the
the bad things that can happen but maybe not uh you know allow that to be the most forefront part
of like i'm i'm an eternal optimist so a lot of the time you know i am that to be the most forefront part of like, I'm, I'm an eternal optimist. So a lot of the time, you know, I am,
I have experienced some pretty outrageously awful things.
I guess I'm just thinking, I'm just thinking in the, in, in the words of,
you know, survival, you know, like, you know,
survival of the fittest evolution and, you know, it's just,
it's just a thought. It's just a thought.
Well, there is a theory that fungi are aliens.
It's kind of a fun theory that fungal spores arrived on a meteor to planet Earth.
And then because fungi are more closely related to humans or animals more generally than plants are.
So this fun theory, which I don't think is
particularly likely, but it's fun to think about is that the fungi are actually aliens and that's
what's responsible for animals. I mean, you don't think that there's like some basement, some
science, some research facility that's like deep underground where they're like literally just
mixing crazy stuff like bubonic or the bubonic plague with fungi. I don't know. Nevermind.
I just, I mean, i'm just looking at this
i mean no that's not even a question obviously yes governments and there are biolabs in the world we
do know this right i'm not i'm not saying they're doing like trying to do mushrooms to take you over
but 100 governments fund this stuff yeah i've seen some crazy things mixed and experimented with at
just hippie parties.
So I'm sure they're doing lots of crazy stuff, but you know, the government.
Someone died of the plague in the USA last month.
Yes, I remember.
Yeah, that was shocking.
It's RFK's fault.
I was in Texas.
I'm joking.
The reason I live in Wyoming is that the virus can't survive the winter here. Neither the cordyceps and we know that from watching
the last of us that's why the headquarters in the last of us you know the speaking of jackson
hole man i'm like tempted i think it's in like three or four days. Soft conference. Yeah, I'm thinking about coming, but too much traveling.
I have like eight conferences on my list
for the next like four months or something.
It's too much.
But I'm thinking about going.
So should we, all right,
so we're into the third hour now.
We're like two hours, 20 minutes in.
I know Aztec really wants to talk about, um, you know, I know that we want to talk about how not
everybody wants to ingest substances. Substances might not be right for everybody, specifically
if they have certain, you know, certain familial histories of mental illness. Um, so should we
talk a little bit about other ways to alter your consciousness
without needing to ingest anything like holotropic breathing, like, uh, like sound,
sound work. Yeah. Can I, I'll just give really quick, like the simple, my, my simple prescription,
I've been wanting to actually talk about this the whole time, but we've been on so many topics,
didn't want to interrupt. But, um, like I think anyone who is going to do
any kind of drug to fix like depression or anxiety or something before they do that,
they should just get out and get some sun and do like a 30 minute walk a day. When you're,
whenever you're on a call, I walk for like four hours a day. I walk like seven to 10,
whenever you're on a call, I walk for like four hours a day. I walk like seven to 10,
12 miles a day because I, on this call, I'm walking on, on the spaces when I do business
calls, when I call my mom, I, you know who I talk to almost every day, I just go out and walk and
I get, I don't go in the sun the whole time. Cause that's too much, but you know, I walk around my
house. I walk outside a bit. Um, but yeah, so get outside, walk, get some sun and go to the gym.
Like anyone who's going to do some drugs to fix something, first get on a gym schedule.
Three, four times a week, whatever you can do.
Get some time in the gym, get out there and walk, get a little sun.
And if you can, I know it it's hard but eat a little healthier
and you'd be and if you're overweight lose some weight i think that actually you know that that
affects and the fourth the fourth thing get some good sleep and get some good sleep yeah
so so this is actually what i was going to try to touch on a minute ago um there's been a lot
of like talking to comments about like the health aspect of it as well.
Carlos McNarlas
has been
really active in the comments and said, one key
takeaway from this space, most
people don't move their bodies enough.
Depression and anxiety often
thrive in stillness rather
than masking emotions with substances.
We should tap into the power of
natural endorphin release through
movement your body is a divine gift the most underrated tool for healing the mind exercise
doesn't just build strength it restores clarity balance and emotional resilience psychedelics can
open doors but movement keeps those doors from closing that's amazing who is is that? That's a good polygon. Who is he? Carlos.
He's a polygon.
I'll say in that post.
Carlos McNarlas.
Okay, cool.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Pin the post.
Yeah.
If anyone else in the audience has any questions for the panelists or any comments.
I tried to get him to speak, but yeah, he said he was going for a run.
Nice. to speak but yeah he thought he was going for a run nice
yeah i like the idea of uh starting with the least invasive things first i mean it's what
i learned when i was going through clinicals and stuff way way back in the day um but of course sometimes people need more you know and uh but yeah if you if you don't
um if you can and you know starting off with just the four things that rock and i just said
can really take people's health a really long way and it sounds totally ridiculous to think that it's just these really small moves but a lot
of a lot of people including myself for years took some things like sleep for granted and didn't
realize how important it is to actually get good sleep uh for you and uh how much good sleep actually makes you a better, stronger person.
And so, yeah, just things like a little working out, a little better sleep,
and just trying to make these little adjustments to be better here and there
will go a long way.
But I personally also love the idea of optimizing or trying things that the pharmaceutical world tries to hide from us.
And so I love this discussion.
And I'm definitely interested to hear more about sound baths, sound healing, because it's something I haven't.
Because it's something I haven't, just in crypto, I work all the time.
And between crypto and family and just my own well-being, I don't have enough time.
I haven't had enough time to dive into this in a real way.
So there sounds like there's some experts here.
I'd love to dive into that.
Aztec, do you?
really quick before we go to that Aztec do you um maybe maybe at some point in this episode if
Really quick before we go to that.
Aztec, do you?
you feel like or if I don't even know if it makes sense but you know you went through some stuff I
before I think before you joined the show I mentioned you know um how doctors can also peddle
drugs and their businesses too and we got to be careful of that and understand that they're trying to sell stuff. So you had a pretty crazy experience trying to go the natural route
and then had a turn of events.
And I don't know, do you want to talk about that here?
I can, yeah.
So I guess my experience was with a naturopath doctor.
But I would say
there was some red flags.
I didn't, you know,
like I was in the medical field
a long time ago,
so I've always had a like
really deep respect for doctors
and like kind of blind trust.
And I think think you know anytime
you you work with anyone you should probably you know also do your own research and
like see red flags acknowledge the red flags if you see red flags but so anyways just saying that
out front and there's there's a lot of really uh really great doctors i'm now working with a new doctor and and
great experience totally different but uh this this one was a little abusive i think and uh
not abusive um manipulative so anyways like in the interest of money,
basically.
Yes.
And,
and yeah,
exactly.
but,
but like doing stuff that was not good for him in the interest of money.
It wasn't just like,
they,
they gouged him for money.
It was like,
you know,
not going by like Hippocratic oath basically, but anyways, yeah, cool.
relationship i think what was happening is that they were
uh using certain like natural things to actually hurt my health to keep me there longer that's the
that's a short story and i actually crashed really hard my hormones uh went fully out of whack
thought i was dying i landed in the emergency room several times
um it wasn't until i started looking at the red flags because i was like i i'm so young like how
could i be going through what i'm going through and it just things didn't add up i was doing
everything that i could right you know with uh sleep and eating healthy and trying to work out
and i was following you know this doctor's uh uh what they were prescribing the regiment and so
i just things didn't add up and i started using grok to try to figure out what might be wrong in my life. And, you know, I was going through my regiment,
figured out that the regiment was actually knocking out my hormones.
And so anyways, that was my experience.
I'm not, I think what I've learned is that there's a lot that people can do for their health just by's just the like obvious things that people take for
granted, like sleep that can do the most to help people and heal their bodies over time.
And, and, and some people, you know, they actually have, uh, a lot, something, a lot,
something worse going on with them. So it's not the case, but, um, yeah, I,
I don't actually know where to go from here with this one, but basically
that was my experience. I'm, I, I got through it and I was, I'm happy.
Uh, I think through my own personal prayers and, uh,
working with Grog,
I figured it out.
And so I say I'm like Grog saved my life and thankful for that.
Church of Grog.
Let's go to me.
Did you just bring up the Church of Grog?
Yeah,
it was a joke,
but I was,
I have one more like other method and this is going to be one that might be controversial, might piss people off or something, but I'll get to that in a second.
Go ahead, Miau.
Yeah, three points to Aztec's story.
Integrative medicine that's led by MDs that aren't trying to show you one particular thing or a holistic doctor that can only show you a particular thing because they're holistic. This is why I'm so attracted to like, you know, what I'm trying
to co-create with Dr. Mu and Dan and Yen. This is the best medicine, like just hands down,
get your blood work done, you'll see a really good longevity doctor, but you also want them
to have these other aspects, which is incredibly hard to find. And, you know, I'll give you some
examples of how insanely expensive and affordable it is, which is why to find. And, you know, I'll give you some examples
of how insanely expensive and affordable it is, which is why we're still like, you know,
hey, give me these few tips. It's, it's, I really want to advise people away from get a few tips,
because that's not really the answer. The answer, you have to do the holistic medicine.
And in North America, here in the States, it's affordable. Probably the best place that does
that is Fountain Life. They charge 20,000 just to get the diagnostics done. If you want therapy, you want
stem cells, you want anything else, that'll be another 50 to 100. So, so this is why, you know,
we're in this sort of place that it's just really not cool. And I'm trying to get away from that
and create, you know, mechanisms where people can gain access to that. The other thing I'll say is
the importance of sleep, because I have a brief personal
story about this.
If you ever met me, I do not look like a person that has sleep apnea.
I am the opposite of a fatty, right?
Like, and hilariously, when I was in college, I was actually a sleep tech for like six months.
So I did polysomnographic studies and every patient I had was, I was an EMT at the time
and like one of my side gigs besides the rescue, I was driving
around this big sleep machine, like going to people's homes and doing their polysomnography,
which just means sleep study. And, you know, everybody was super obese, like crazy obese.
I was like, okay, well, I'll probably never get sleep apnea. But then I had neck surgery a few
years ago, I had a revision. And all of a sudden I start to feel like pretty bad, like, like slowly
over time, like, am I getting old? Like, what's going on?
Like, why am I so tired?
And finally I actually had a sleep study and it turns out that I have sleep apnea.
And now I use a CPAP machine and it's, and it's like changed my life.
Right.
And so one of the things we're doing with Dr.
Moon's and we're going to have sleep studies as part of it, because sometimes like people that you wouldn't expect at all to have
sleep apnea will have it and it will completely f up your life like next level it's it's uh you
know it is it is awful like you just you you just you're always tired um and you know surprisingly
i found that like in rem i had eight apnea events every time i'm in rem like per per hour so that's
already you know that's like basically the high end So that's already, you know, that's like
basically the high end of low. So like theoretically, you know, I don't have sleep apnea,
like an intense case of it, not like the people I was working with who, you know, would have
eight incidents per hour is not high. We, you know, well, it's called clinically.
You're having an incident, like every eight minutes you're it's called clinically you're having an incident like every eight minutes
you're like waking up or you're being interrupted you're unconsciously waking up yeah i mean you're
not conscious of this but your body sounds terrible it is terrible that's what i'm saying
even though you're the high end of the lower spectrum of it um you've since using a sleep
apnea machine i've seen a drastic difference even though you're
a radical difference wow that's that's really inspiring because i got tested a little while
back and i was like on i think like mid to high end of the of the lower side as well too and they
actually were like it's not absolutely necessary for you to to. And, and so that's really, really curious. How quickly did
you see a different night? Okay. Literally it's like after having this for a year and a half and
then running, you know, American fortress and matter five, which is, you know, like stress
level a hundred or anyway. Right. It's like, I was like, Oh my God, I wake up and I'm just like,
great. And, and still, you know, I still struggle with sleep some,
but now at least half the time I have really good sleep.
And when I have good sleep, I wake up and I was literally like, you,
you round the clock back 10 years and you're superhuman. Wow. Okay.
And so if you're like numbers or anything between like non-REM,
I'm about five events and then with REM I'm at eight, but the machine, so I'll give
you a few tips, definitely get a CPAP machine insurance or whatever. They're not really
expensive. Um, but the machine will measure the amount of events you have. So like before I would
have, you know, eight events during RAM and five during non-RAM, but now I have 0.1 events,
uh, the entire night. So, so no events at all. And, and what does it do? Okay. Exactly. How does it
stop? There's, there's two things I'll give you guys. One is so sleep apnea, what happens is
either you're overweight and you have fatty buildup in your throat, or you've had like,
in my case, I, and I theorize this, I don't know if it's true, but like, I came to realize this
when I saw an x-ray of my neck after my surgery, because I have like all these plates there and I'm like, damn,
that seems like that'll narrow my airway, right?
So if I relax, it's conceivable that my airway will actually close off.
And so what happens when you go into REM, the deeper you go into sleep, the more your
body relaxes.
So if you have anything that would cause an obstruction, the obstruction becomes more.
And typically this is just weight for 90% of people it's weight.
But then there's some people that just have obstructive sleep apnea or a neurological
sleep apnea that like essentially, um, is the same, similar symptoms that they'll just
stop breathing when they're super relaxed.
And then what happens is your body's like, okay, well, we're not breathing.
That's not good.
Like your, your brain essentially has a pulse oximeter built into it. Right. So you start dropping low 90. It's like,
Hey, uh, uh, wake up a little bit, right. We're going to create a little more consciousness. So
you start breathing again properly. And so, and snoring is a symptom of this, right? So like,
if you, if you hear your partner or yourself, like snore, snore, snore, and then you kind of
like stop for a second, that's sleep apnea. Now for a lot of people, it's subclinical and it's not going to affect you at all, but you should definitely
get a sleep study because for me, it's like, I didn't know what was going wrong because I'm like,
you know, super into fitness. I'm in the gym every day. I'm like doing all this stuff, you know,
getting the stem cells, going to, to, and just to add to that real quick, like one of the things
that you'll realize if that might be an indicator that you have sleep apnea is that you wake up with a headache in the morning or you are lethargic or tired.
But yeah, I just wanted to add that.
Yeah, so the last thing is, so what's the solution, right?
So there's presently three different solutions I know of.
One is an actual implant that you can get, and they've been pushing this hard on the TV.
I don't recommend this at all. It sounds super sketch. They'll give you an implant that just
detects when you stop breathing. And then it just gives you a little zap. And I'm just like, I don't
know how that's like a pacemaker. It's like a sleep pacemaker. And it's all over like the U S
television right now. Like I see ads for it at the gym and I'm just like, they're like perfect
cure for sleep apnea. I'm like, really? Uh, I uh i'm interested you know so i looked it up and it's literally surgery and i'm just like and they implants but it's waking you it's waking
you up well what it does i don't know if it wakes you up but it's a stimulant basically they put
these they put it in your chest like left or right side and then there's these wires that go to your
throat muscles and they just stimulate your throat muscles to like essentially wake up that's and i don I don't know more than that because I think that's a terrible idea. And like,
I was just like, no fucking way, especially since there's two other options that are way less
invasive. One is just get a dental appliance that just moves your jaw forward. So I tried that. And
for me, it didn't really work and it caused a bunch of neck pain. So I like, so I was like,
fine, I'm going to do the CPAP. And first I was like okay this the cpap's gonna suck so what's a cb it's continuous positive air
pressure that's what it stands for so you just wear a little mask under your nose and it'll blow
like you know air basically the entire night you know through your through your nose and it also
keeps teaches you to keep your mouth shut because the second you try to open your mouth you'll be
like i start choking a little bit but they also have face max versions but the nasal one uh which is just called like a
nasal pillow solution works great for me i just have like the regular machine it's it's uh um
resmed yeah that's what i have and it and it just blows humidified air up your nostrils all night
and at first it's a little like it takes a second to use to, but if you have sleep apnea,
you, you, you, you get you like, I was used to it the second night and I had like the
best night of sleep in a year and a half.
And I was the happiest person ever.
So, you know, get a sleep study and then get a CPAP is the answer.
Cause there's no real, no negative downside to it at all.
You know, it's just, it's not sexy.
That's for sure.
Like I looked like a science experiment going to
sleep you know my wife's like taking pictures just like okay because i got i got like the
headphones with the anti-noise i got a bite blocker because i grind my teeth i got the
eye mask and i got a you know brian johnson the wristwatch you know monitoring everything so
what you're saying is is make love before you go into full cyborg.
Yeah, it's not a first date sort of thing.
Like, hey, by the way, I got sleep apnea.
Come check out my machine.
You're literally plugging into the matrix when you go to sleep.
Yeah.
You listen to podcasts when you fall asleep? I always listen to podcasts or e-books or whatever.
I do white noise.
And the last thing, because I got to get going soon,
because it's like time to get back to work i love this space is my sound i would definitely want to
share about sound baths because like i'm a sound bath astronaut i would say i when i lived in la
there i had a house in west hollywood for like three and a half years and we had a sound bath
there every every monday for three and a half years so i did a lot of sound baths like hundreds
and hundreds and i would say that um and i'm going to i did a lot of sound bass like hundreds and hundreds and i
would say that um and i'm going to send you a link to my friend shane who um he's currently in san
francisco and if you happen to be in the area i'll post his insta but he posted this is the best
sound healer on planet earth bar by far like so first of all what is sound healing if you've never
experienced it is basically you know somebody playing what I would call like trance-ish instruments.
They're generally organic crystal bowls or gongs on a stage in front of a group of people
that are laying down with their heads towards the stage.
Sometimes they're sitting up, sometimes they're on medicine, but it goes really great with
medicine, but typically, you know, it's just great sober.
And it does, and you can also combine it with breath work.
So, but it basically gets your mind in a state of like just deep, you go theta very, very quickly.
And, you know, so you literally have a journey.
So I, I've had like full on psychedelic journeys where I'm like talking to aliens and stuff in my head and, you know, and it feels very, I mean, it's very, very it's like um i mean do you feel like you're astral projected maybe i mean i did i literally actually projected
i think i was like out of my body yes did that was i floating above the room i don't think i
don't think anybody noticed that but i'm just saying maybe your spirit i mean i'm just opening
that up i mean maybe you did it's it's entirely possible all i'll say i've had a similar i've had
a similar situation exactly as yours we have transcended by just my breath so i believe you
and yeah holotropic breath work is amazing especially when you're in like a really really
uh like really safe environment where you can really go deeply into it without any fear of
like judgment or any of those things and you can work with someone or a group that has proper uh like some
of the best holotropic uh breath work that i've done is with practitioners that create their own um
their own playlists that are really dialed into like a three-hour session where you'll do breath
work for three hours and you're going through like a fully like
shamanic experience of you know going from ordinary states of reality into unordinary
states reality and then coming back you know into you know a a safe container there afterwards and
i've had like i've done a lot of work with psychedelics i've done tons of lsd mdma i've
done a lot of the i've done a lot of substances. And then also, like I said, other more sacred substances and the breath work in a very safe place,
holotropic breath work in a very safe place and in a really solid environment.
Like some of the idea, I commonly do a decent amount of men's retreats.
And they're completely focused on men's work, which is incredible because there's no distraction of say like, you know,
women around, not like love women, obviously, but men's work is very much integrative in the
masculine sense of things. And some of my best sessions with holotropic breathwork have been
with other brothers that I trust a lot in a space where we've connected for a day or two,
and then gone into more niche wellness practices, whether it's sound baths or holotropic
breath work or other things like shadow work skits and acting and stuff like that. But yeah,
I love holotropic breath work. Yeah, it's beautiful, actually. I can share some,
anybody that's interested at all, I work with with some amazing people i'm sure maybe some of you guys have heard of sacred sons before they're one of the most
well-known men's groups in the united states and they're doing stuff all over the world i work with
another group that's locally here one of my friends it's called brother uh as well too and
then also um if you guys are ever interested as well where we facilitate i've facilitated one
uh retreat in costa rica and we're doing one in Mexico coming up.
We're thinking in February, but a lot of this work is around not working with psychedelics, but working with other forms of niche type of medicines to act as deeper authenticity and connection and stuff. But the last thing I can say is holotropic breathwork,
thermal therapy, heat, cold, natural foods, just like whole foods. I love how Dr. Moo earlier was
like a good steak and avocado. I'm, you know, low carbs, low sugar,
low processed foods and eating, you know, very as natural and close to, you know, original states,
like primitive states, like, you know, meats, like I always buy like half cows of organic
grass-fed beef and I'm eating steaks all the time and avocado and, and meat and high quality proteins and, and, and fats and stuff.
And then also just, you know, deeply integrative experiences with others as well, too, where you can go into spaces of vulnerability and authenticity in a very, very safe way.
And that's like without substances or any of those things,
experiencing that type of connection.
I'm a very healing disorder.
Have you ever heard, what is it,
Neil Tyson, where he talks about like natural foods?
Like, you know, back in the day,
long time ago, we used to eat all natural foods
and people would still die early.
And he still gives the, um, you
know, the, the, the award or the answer for why we live so much longer now to science. You ever
heard that? Yeah. I mean, I know that life expectancy before was a lot shorter. Um, and I
think that, uh, I think it was for probably, I don't know the statistics, but I think it was
probably for different reasons than now, like where there's a lot of like uh illness i mean i i don't know i
can't speak on it but what i'm saying is i don't think that the rate of cancer and inflammation
from some of the aspects that we've introduced to the lifestyles that we have now have been as
much the cause of death maybe there was other things and other factors like the working conditions and you know
getting eaten by a lion yeah i don't know i like i'm not a professional i mean these things but
yeah one way to look at it is like you know it's not that oh our our new diets are helping
it's not that our new diets are helping us to like live to be 85. Now it's,
it's probably more likely that we are living to be 85 in spite of these things. So like
our life expectancy is constant. It's a constant, you know, push and pull of we're developing new
techniques to, you know, fix things like diabetes that used to kill, you know, people. Now it's a
lot harder to die from diabetes. We could just make, you know, insulin from yeast. Now we like,
we engineered yeast to make insulin, but anyways, um, I guess we're, we're almost at the end here.
And, um, I do want to, yeah, go ahead. Because I still haven't got a sufficient idea of what sound baths are.
And I really would like to figure this out.
Let me jump back in.
Yeah, sorry, Rock.
I'm really curious.
We do have to, at the end, I want to read comments from the audience and questions from the audience because we always wait and then we don't have time.
And shout out audience members.
And then I had one more like kind of whole nother topic to talk about.
But yeah, let's, let's continue on sound bass for a bit here.
We could actually make, the show can go a little longer.
I actually don't have a call right after the show.
I do have work to do, but I could stay a little longer too if anyone wants to.
Awesome, bro.
Because Prometheus also had their hand up for a long time prometheus did you get to sleep or was it just left up it's
almost been an hour but you know i'll uh yeah i noticed it's been up for a while yeah i appreciate
it thanks okay let's do soundbats then we'll do prometheus okay sounds good. Yes. So I've already done sound baths and there's a lot of ancient technologies regarding this that we have lost.
So you look at a lot of the cathedrals, you look at, you know, these Greek chambers where, you know, they would like um close you off and and and underground
they they'd play bells and all kinds of things this was known to be an absolute healer like um
during the tartarian world which i don't know who's been down that rabbit hole but you know
there's no tear yeah down there they're uh quite innovative they had the what is it the world circus or the world fair
my bad yeah the world fair and also these ancient classic you know buildings you know i believe a
lot of them were found in america it wasn't necessarily built um and throughout the world
um you know they they had a lot of understanding of sound healing because you know we still have like here where I
live in Canterbury there's a massive cathedral and every day they run the bells and when they
run the bells or when I'm near there or even far away there is a clear energetic difference and so
yeah sound healing you know we are vibrational creatures at the end of the day um i think yeah go ahead i'm sorry i'm
sorry go ahead what's your question go ahead no no i was i was it was kind of like off topic it
was mostly about the buildings of the cathedrals and kind of how our architecture has digressed a
little bit but um yeah sorry about that 100 yeah yeah i definitely want to hear this i want to hear
the bell. Yeah.
100%.
Like our architecture has digressed.
And by the way, that is by design.
Okay.
By, by, you know, all of this focus on costs, minimizing costs.
Um, and instead of realizing, hang on a second, this is going to be an environment, you know,
where people might be coming in for years of their life, you know, and, and you want
to make it aesthetic and, and wholesome
and healing and all that. And, you know, we've, there's, there's an engineering and architectural
revolution that needs to happen. But certainly when it comes to like,
Oh, that's an interesting concept. Like if you were building an office and you're just looking
at the numbers of like, okay, we need, you know, what's the rent, what's the build out cost, et cetera. But I wonder if you could do, you know, I'm sure you could do studies and go like, okay,
are people more productive when they go into a cool environment? So like, for example,
I went to Loyola Marymount University in Los Angeles and our library, I think was like ranked
in architectural magazine or whatever as one of the seventh architectural wonders of the world or something.
And it was just the most beautiful campus ever, like incredibly beautiful, you know, and that definitely made me want to learn more and, you know, like enjoy my experience there.
So I wonder even from a monetary outlook for businesses, you know, having an office where your people feel good do they work
better absolutely i love architecture i really want to hear about the bells guys let me let me
let me jump in and satisfy aztec here real quick um please so um sound baths generally the instruments
are crystal bowls and gongs and i've been to every single sound bath and here's what you're looking
for you like there's a lot of sound healing bath and here's what you're looking for.
Like there's a lot of sound healing offered.
And then if you show up and they got like four bowls and a gong,
that is not the experience you want to be at.
That is not going to like, you know, blow your mind or change you.
I mean, it can, but like the sound has to be immersive and the, and the practitioner has to just be an absolute master.
And so most of the stuff being offered at festivals and stuff
is I would say, you know, 10% of that. So, you know, I had a practitioner whose name is Shane.
It was a great friend of mine. He just retired, unfortunately, but he would bring a setup with
like 10 bowls. And then on top of that, he had a stage behind him with like, you know, six gongs
and he would play all this at once. And it was just like, and I had the privilege of hosting him at my house every week for three and a half years. And that
definitely completely changes your stuff. Right. So, um, look for an experience where just from
the pictures, you can see they have a lot of instruments, uh, because a, uh, those are really
expensive instruments. I think Shane set up was like ultimately like $50,000 when it was like it's not our highest.
But, you know, that guy can invest in his healing and, you know, people are actually, you know, compensating for it.
And it's really.
What's the science, you know, like, like what's the science behind what is actually happening with.
Now, I heard some like spiritual things things which i'm not as like i literally
i'm a little bit more cautious towards that but but uh i mean i i definitely do believe that we
are vibrational beings and uh and i and i do i have heard some people talk and read some things
about like how vibrations can help
with healing.
And that's like, I'm wondering if anyone kind of knows what that science is behind.
Yeah.
I mean, I'll let the vibration talk about that, but I would just say that to finish my, my
point is, you know, find the biggest sound bath you can, and then just really like experience
And then that, you know, may tell you like
how it affects you. But like, for me, it was instant. Like the first real sound bath I had,
like I was, I was, I mean, I had out of body experiences. It was just crazy. I was just like,
what the on earth is going on? So after that, I got really into it and it's deeply relaxing.
It's the one thing I miss about Wyoming is we got no sound baths here. We also got no riots and no traffic and, you know, no,
no California taxes. But I missed the sound baths badly. Like, yeah, it's just, for me,
it was an essential part of the practice. And I'll leave you with that.
Yeah, just the vibrational sciences dimension. So, Rock, I already sent you a paper on this in your um uh inbox but i'll put in the
purple pill as well if you'd like but basically uh we are for me to meet this are you talking
is it you yeah it's me it's it's me it's me it's me aztec that wants to know so yeah yeah yeah i'll
send it to me yeah i'll gladly send it to you. So we are basically epigenetic creatures, right? So
environmental functions determine gene expression in our bodies, right? This has been thoroughly
now proven by people like Dr. Bruce Lipton in the 90s and so on who did a lot of this pioneering work and so that's why you know when
Rock went into like oh my university environment made you know like it was just a wonderful space
to to be in right. Same with me by the way you know I've gone to some really aesthetically pleasing
environments for learning. Sussex University, Kent, even Oxford and Cambridge, these places are very
aesthetically pleasing environments. It absolutely does influence creativity, productivity,
sense of well-being. There's a reason the word concrete jungle for me now is a turn-off.
I go to London for short bursts just for business and things,
but I love living here in Canterbury with willow trees and rivers and people being chill and
relatively decent sunshine and so on. It's a bit of a laid back life, but even then in our
environments today, Aztec and I'm'm especially concerned, like, you know, we're,
we've poisoned, vibrationally poisoned a lot of our environments, okay, like 5G towers, okay,
gigahertz frequencies being beamed into our homes and offices, like, that shit needs to go,
okay, like, this is worse than lead, it is, there's a lot of studies on this that are coming out now.
We need to turn that stuff off.
You can get certain paints, like lead paints, which I'm getting.
You can put it on cardboard if you're living on a rented space and just cover your walls.
That's what I'm doing now.
But that'll absorb a lot of these frequencies, but it's absolutely throwing us off.
Wait, you're blocking 5g by going to lead paint and yeah and lots of aluminum foil
behind that rock would be like x-rays and lead I believe right but like it
wasn't lead pretty like I think 5g is still uncertain how bad it is, but lead paint, we're pretty damn sure is fucked up, right?
Yeah, dude, we know 5G is bad.
And look, it depends on the kind of lead paint you get.
There are safe ones that you can get as well.
Obviously, you know, there's unsafe ones. that was won by Robert F Kennedy's Children's Health Defense in August of 2024 in New York
against 5G radiation being carcinogenic in a school, provably carcinogenic. And you know,
this is like, if you guys look at a 20 pound note here in the UK, there is a 5G tower and right
above it is a virus symbol that looks exactly like the t-cells you know that we've been
shown as as the virus symbol during 2020 so like our our health secretary you know rock bless his
entrepreneurial mind knew how to create a ppe company in 2018 what vision what foresight right
he knew he'd get a multi-billion dollar contract when a pandemic would come along. And what do you know?
Definitely not a plandemic, but a pandemic. Right?
So anyway, yeah, like a lot of this stuff I believe is by design.
And if we can create safe environments like Aztec, like I know a lot of my
friends since 5G towers have gone up, have struggled with like their sleep,
including a possible sleep apnea
I know I certainly have I sometimes wake up in the middle of night and it's like this eee
kind of like this weird you know vibrational thing going on and so you know it's yeah so it's
it's something to think about and definitely sound baths help so I've taken a few of them, you know, sound bowls, triangles, giant gongs,
like the Japanese gongs. Those things have like a restorative resonance effect, right? So
we know in the like, you know, in a musical instrument, right? Like I play the sharo,
it's we have resonance strings depending on how I tune them
they'll vibrate you know in that way I believe much of the human body is is just like that so
it's totally something I highly recommend for for healing check it out and I know Dr. Mu has his
hand up so I'll throw it over to him yeah thank you also. Thank you so much. I just wanted to say
I probably have to leave in the next
few minutes to get to somewhere
important. But yeah,
I'll be here for a little bit present. I just want to
let you know if you want to ask me or touch
up on anything before I left.
Maybe we should read some questions
from the audience so that he can
answer any of those really quick. And thank you, by the
way, again, so much for being here.
Biggest pleasure.
He's way ahead of you.
He's actually been replying to them already.
Yeah, I've been replying.
So I thought, hey, let me speak to people and get their replies.
And this is the first time I've ever β I used to be on Twitter about 13 years ago.
I'll tell you guys a secret story.
And I was a big Ariana Grande fan.
My whole Twitter was all about Ariana Grande and getting to her.
And then I actually, she followed me.
I had a video call with her, and then that was the last I used.
So it's been a pleasure getting to be on this platform.
I'm going to try and start using it more um be as part as
many spaces as possible and then also keep um hopefully the community updated on all the amazing
things and the work that myself and my colleague dr daniel has been doing and the retreats that
we're starting the corporate wellness and to touch up earlier about um rock and i think it was aztec
was speaking about the foundational things like within longevity now it is exercise diet sleep and
emotional well-being those are the core foundational pillars everyone should focus on and you do not need any exogenous molecule to be aware of those
spheres of your life to try and optimize those things and then after those four foundational
pillars comes exogenous molecules whether it be peptides whether it be stem cells whether it be
plants or psychedelics the core foundation are those four. And by focusing
on those four things and educating people that those are the pillars they can work with and
really make a massive change in their life, it costs everyone nothing to be able to focus on
those things. And I think that's the whole idea and the vision that myself
dr daniel and dr vian share is to get those foundational things out there and then also be
able to assist with whatever whether it be methylene blue whether it be nac whether it be NAC, whether it be NAD, whether it be peptides. I've recently, just fun fact, someone told me at a store
about insect-derived testosterone for testosterone replacement therapy
at our clinic.
And now it's come into my space.
I've done some research.
I found two patients that are using these types of medicine,
and it's now been working.
So insect-derived testosterone.
What was that last one
um insect derived testosterone
interesting okay it's called turkesterone t-u-r-k-e-s-t-e-r-o-n-e and it actually is a
not a legal not a scheduled substance and it's in natural supplements. And I've incorporated
into my TRT where I use other plants like ashwagandha, fedosia. So yeah, there's a lot of
things to do, but I want to leave with just saying the core foundational pillars can be done by
everyone, whether you're a crypto billionaire, whether you are someone who sells delicious hot dogs on the side of the road, you can learn how to be a better human and live happier and live stronger for the larger part of your life.
All right. On the insect-derived testosterone, look, I'm an 80s baby. I saw the movie The Fly. I'm not touching it.
Yeah, it's an interesting thing.
It's an interesting thing.
The fungi, they take over the ants.
They're insects.
No, I'm just kidding.
I'm just kidding.
I think Dr. Mu here might be a lizard, man.
He's here trying to recruit us with mushroom cordyceps,
taking over our brain, turn us into insects.
I saw a practitioner recently in Cape Town and she told me I'm a blue alien I come from a different planet and I was also
in a past lifetime a pittance in Atlantis the underwater sea so I'm very I'm very, I'm explorative. I've tried almost every psychedelic on this earth
and there are still many to work with and the idea is to work with the medicine,
understand the medicine, respect the spirits and offer it then as a option to a patient,
but also educate them from personal experience, of course,
and then from research.
So, yeah.
I'm so open-minded to this stuff, but I'm sure there's a lot of people in the audience
who feel similar to me where, like, I'm afraid my brain is my greatest asset.
And I'm so scared of messing my brain up, you know.
So I've not, I've never done acid.
I've never done ayahuasca or any of these things,
even though I'm very interested.
Because I've also seen, I've known people who did a lot of this stuff
who are clearly fucked up.
So like you do too much of the wrong thing, you might.
All within moderation, all within moderation all within moderation and not every
psychedelic is for any person i've had friends also unfortunately consume a gram of mushrooms and
go into mania and you know it's it's it's not for everyone but it just takes self-awareness
the main well just a temporary mania, like they just were having a bad
trip, you mean? No, temporary
mania, and then afterwards they
found out they got diagnosed with bipolar.
So the mushrooms,
the mushrooms,
and that's not because of the mushrooms.
The mushrooms, they were genetically
susceptible to having the
gene that had
caused them to have bipolar.
You know, as I mentioned earlier initially about neurotransmitter chemical imbalances,
they were just genetically susceptible to it.
And all the mushroom did was because it increased their serotonin and caused perceptual disturbances,
that brain switch switched on and then it became present.
And by just going to see doctors, she was brought back to abnormality.
And now she can't take psychedelics because she knows as soon as she touches any psychedelic, it activates her brain.
And that's not psychedelics' fault, you know?
I had, well, maybe it is, I don't, I don't know, but you know,
I think it depends on the situation and the facts, but I had a friend, um,
he in childhood, it was my, one of my best friends, brother, older brother,
and he was very nice, very cool, normal guy.
And then he started using drugs, uh, life and he just it i don't know
they say it triggered like his whatever schizophrenia or these kind of things by
various things and he went i mean nuts i mean they found him in the desert naked like almost dead i
mean like crazy to show you to give you some peace of mind rock, to put it as simple, I studied psychiatry and man, I loved it. I got like 92%. I absolutely loved it. I studied the books. I read everything.
genetics, epigenetics is separate. Genetically, we can be susceptible to having a gene abnormality
in our brain that makes us susceptible to schizophrenia, to bipolar, to depression,
to anxiety, to mental illness, to whatever mental illness it is. It's not just in your head. It's
actually in your physiology, in your brains. And it's, you know, it's whatever
one uses to find normality or balance. It can be whatever it may be. But a psychedelic can't be
the issue why they have schizophrenia. The plant just caused what it would do in anyone's brain, adjust neurochemistry.
But because you are susceptible to said illness,
that adjustment causes you to go into mania or schizophrenia.
So it's just the genetic susceptibility in the end.
You know, not everyone is doomed to smoke a joint and end up becoming schizophrenic.
Is there a way to test for susceptibility firstly before you use substances and then maybe then after as well too?
There is.
So DNA tests now, some of the DNA tests.
What?
Microdose. DNA tests now some of the DA what micro does
I had someone say micro does make sense to me just like do small amounts so you
don't see so you see how you react I'm by the way that guy I want to be clear
I don't want I don't want to scare everyone here that like psychedelics are
terrible that guy that I told you fat was in the debt they found him in the
desert and went totally nuts he was doing a lot of stuff
And I think it was primarily meth. So was he just was he trying to meet the the naked Indian for woods for Wayne stock?
If we could go back in world
To dr. Moo like without like without at all testing psilocybin lsd
any of these substances at all are you able to do tests um to see for susceptibility to
schizophrenia bipolar any of these um you know things that exist in your you know epigenetic
makeup is there a way to properly test to to make sure that okay this might not be the
best thing for me or i'm okay with this or not there are currently so some of the dna testing
that is out and the ones i have access here to south africa allows us to um it's called dna mind
from a company called dna allysis i can send it in as a message maybe afterwards. And they do
mind genetic testing to your susceptibility of poor serotonin balance, poor dopamine,
different other things. They haven't, I think soon enough, they'll be able to test specific genes
that cause more, a higher risk, but the same as it would be for Alzheimer's and
dementia they more and more these longevity tests are coming out to prove that these are the genes
that are most related to certain conditions so yes there are some they are not very in-depth but
there are some that can give one insight. And then also,
as you mentioned earlier, a microdose to also elicit, because any amount of a psychedelic
substance could potentially push someone into their imbalance, into their abnormality.
Any substance, as a matter of fact, I don't think it needs to take
a large, large amount. It's just you are susceptible to having that imbalance. So
I think yes to your answer as well. Thank you for that. I really appreciate that because,
I mean, some of the experiences that I've had in my life have been really like, I would never,
you know, wish for them to ever experience some of the things that I have, I, some of the experiences that I've had in my life have been really like, I would never, you know, wish for them to ever experience some of the things that I have with, with substances and with some of those other traumas and mental health and some of those aspects, but now, you know, being able to bring those, you know, understandings
through actual experience to life for others and through my own experience has led me to,
you know, large amounts of not being, you know, not victimizing or coming from a place where I
did grow up in a very challenging way to, you know, being able to thrive quite substantially
through adversity. Right. So it's, it's interesting because, you know,
I hear a lot of people are like,
oh yeah, try DMT or ayahuasca.
And I'm, you know, where I have smoked DMT
a decent amount of times
and have drank an ayahuasca quite a few times,
I never suggest to anybody to ever try these substances
without really, really, really understanding
what can happen.
And with iboga, yeah, you can die.
With ayahuasca, you can come out of that experience in not a good way,
from just drinking ayahuasca once or smoking DMT once or whatever,
or trying to listen to them once.
So it is like when you play with things that once or, or whatever, or trying to listen to them once. So it's,
it is like when you play with things that are so, so powerful, the key word is you're playing
with something when you approach things in a very conscious way, which means preparation,
you know, deep understanding, integrative support, understanding that these are
visionary medicines and that the, that the vision aspect to the experience is
just a small amount, a small part of the healing process, that the integrative part is even deeper,
that I've, you know, I've worked with Cambo, I've worked with ayahuasca, peyote, you know,
for anybody to say ayahuasca is a beautiful experience, it is but it's also very painful and dark and very
intense and you know the aspect of like purging um usually when it comes to healing uh it usually
means that we have to go deeper into darker parts of ourselves to address the the character aspects
of ourselves or the traumas within ourselves that um that are not very lovely you know that are not very lovely, you know, that are icky, right?
So, yeah, I really appreciate this.
And, yeah, Dr. Mu, if you do have an opportunity,
I would love to talk with you more, whether it's in DM
or we can jump on a call because I'm definitely very, very interested
in exploring some of these lighter, you know,
the substance that you talked about earlier,
that's a little bit lighter than ibogaine.
And, yeah. Mu, Do you have a second? I want to, uh, now this might spark a
can of worms, but, um, you could just stay for a moment if you can to hear the question. And
I just am curious if you have any thoughts, but I've been, I've been wanting to talk about this
the whole episode, but I think it was probably better to talk about all these other topics first which and so this one is just um we're talking and and this everything we've said
here is totally relevant and I'm not discounting any of it but on the point of like instead of
doing drugs do things that make you get the natural dopamine you know walking exercise these
things and there's one more thing and that is something
i just we don't hear that much these days and i think it was more common throughout all of history
and that's and this goes uh for women and men but the phrase is man the up and and just just get it. Like, just do it. Just fucking, when times are hard, instead of going, woe is me, and like, I need a drug, or maybe I need a sound bath, or whatever.
Yeah, sure, do all that too.
But also, man the fuck up.
And get out there, and whatever is troubling you, maybe you're having money troubles.
Okay, find a way to make more money.
Get better skills. And just get up and do're, you're having money troubles. Okay. Find a way to make more money, get better skills and, and just get up and do things. You know, it's very easy. And I get into my own,
like I, from time to time, Cindy knows all like every, I don't know, six months all, maybe it's
just too much pressure from something at work. Maybe it's whatever it might be. But I go into like a little mini rut
where I'm like, I'm not getting my exercise. I'm like, you know, I'm, I'm like maybe wasting more
time or whatever it is. Victim mode or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Or just like, and that can perpetuate
on itself when you feel bad. And especially if you go do something like smoking pot to feel better
or drinking to feel better or playing video games to feel better all these things you can perpetuate
that and it's very easy to go even for someone like me who's incredibly ambitious and like and
a very a type personality even i sometimes can get in a little rut not often and it usually doesn't
last long because i do i just tell myself hey man
the up and sometimes cindy will tell me like what the are you in a rut what's going on why are you
like you know you're not yourself the last few days and i just sometimes i just gotta get the
up and do something and go and and not blame other p i never blame other people but
other people will do that they'll It's someone else's fault.
It's my boss's fault.
It's, you know, the government's fault.
You know, you guys hear me say, you know, how much I don't like the government.
But, you know, maybe it's, you know, I don't know, the rich guy's fault or whatever.
But I'm just saying, I think it's, this is like really powerful. It's just, man, the fuck up.
Amen to that.
I'm going to leave you on one.
I'm going to have to go,
but on one thing in total agreement is God,
if you believe in God,
the universe didn't give us whatever challenge it is.
If we weren't a soldier to be able to beat it and smash it and kill it and
just man up,
you know,
God,
we are strong in things, beings.
So I completely agree with you.
Sometimes it's just that mindset that overrules any imbalance or anything.
And you just get shit done.
Get it done.
And smile.
God gave us choice.
And we have to go out and make those choices every single day.
That's it.
Free will is also the biggest gift we've
been given on this earth.
Slightly arguable. Yeah, free will
free will results
in sadness and suffering, but
it also results in a lot of
happiness and growth
and progress.
Would you rather be in the
matrix or something or
just dumbed down and you don't have free will, but you're also safe? Or would you rather live in the matrix or something or like just dumbed down and like you don't have free will, but you're also safe?
Or would you rather live in a free world?
Would you rather be exploring the world and trying new things and meeting new people?
And yeah, maybe you date someone and it ends in disaster.
But at least you tried that experience and maybe next time you'll find the one, you know.
Completely.
Dr. Moo, thank you so much.
By the way, I'm actually, at the very top,
I actually pinned up the Church of Gronk.
Thank you so much, Dr. Moo.
It was a pleasure to have you, and please come again.
I think you should spin back up your Twitter files
from before, but this time
do it as health and wellness or health
and psychedelics or
alternative medicine.
I love that it was Ariana Grande.
I want to know what happened to
Ariana Grande, by the way.
Maybe we can incorporate them.
Dr. Mu went
from Ariana Grande and then started using
psychedelics and was like wait was your account was your accountant mu rihanna grande yeah it was
one of those hey like uh hello ever my life and hey i won a competition she followed me i got a video call so i succeeded i'll take it so follow
myself on instagram and there dr daniel is as well we'll try and be as active on x as we can
but on instagram we're hosting podcasts we actually have a podcast coming out at the
end middle of september where Dr. Daniel spoke about
longevity as an up-and-coming
medicine within our population
and I spoke about psychedelics
and mental health basically.
So follow us and we'll keep
the conversations going. I'd love to be a
part of any other spaces in the
future and
the full capacity as I
can and please come visit us in Cape Town you heard from
me how it's amazing it's beautiful people are friendly the medicines accessible and the natural
medicine and the natural beauty we have in this country is this is by the way you guys will learn
in the future Cape Town South Africa is a highly energetic area, a portal.
And that's why there's a lot of insane, amazing practitioners that come here from all sorts of the world.
So please come visit. It's beautiful.
Definitely interested in learning more about the stem cell trees. So, treatment. 100%. 100%. And this practitioner friend of mine, Dr. Vian van Veik, he's one of the only people
in the Southern Hemisphere that does heavy metal detoxing, like properly, not just like
properly with IV drips and medicine.
And so, there's a lot of things that we formed a trio of unexplainable power that we can
all tap into hopefully one day.
All right. Well, thank you so much. Okay, guys, I know we've been gone way longer than we were
going to, we, we, we were supposed to shorten the show to two hours over the last month,
but we haven't shortened it. Now we're at three hours and 20 minutes or four hours and 20. I don't
know. Anyways, we do have a bunch of requests today.
So people must be loving this topic.
I'm bringing up random people for a bit.
Aztec,
if you have to go,
if anyone else has to go,
feel free,
but I'm going to just let the audience up and,
and take some questions that way.
Wait,
one second,
Rock.
So this is a popular topic.
I think so.
Last time it was too.
All right.
You hear that?
Aztec?
You guys hear that? Yes. I was too you guys hear that
I had to fight
for this
you definitely won
I had to fight for this
so yeah
alright
you should feel vindicated
it definitely helps I would say
with having like experts
yeah 100% that makes all the difference It definitely helps, I would say, with having like experts. Yeah, 100%.
That makes all the difference.
We're not just a bunch of hippies up here smoking joints together.
Yeah, no, no, that's the whole point.
It's wonderful.
That is so that people can have conversations with people that they may not have normal access to.
But okay, that's all.
I just wanted to rub it in your face just a tiny bit.
Okay, let's all. I just wanted to rub it in your face just a tiny bit. Okay, let's go.
Prometheus, if you wanna say anything
and then we'll go to Hard K who has their hand up,
who is I don't know who, but a random audience member.
Yeah, I wanna give a real practice.
I just did this right now.
It induces stem cell growth in the body.
It's micro hypoxia practice.
So you basically, it's a form of breathing.
So basically you empty your lungs.
So you take a couple deep breaths first, you oxygenate your lungs, and then you empty your
lungs and then you hold for about 30 seconds to a minute.
And this induces a parasympathetic nervous system
response the brain is looking for oxygen and so it actually generates um you know stem cell it
activates stem cell growth within the bones so this is an ancient um like it's you know pranayama
like it we we have these breathing techniques in Bangladesh, India,
like, that we learn.
And this is one of those practices that have now been scientifically studied to be,
this is, you know, very helpful.
Wim Hof has really, Wim Hof has really made this popular.
I highly recommend you try it out
All right, when I take cold showers I
I try to hold my breath
Just for as long as I can
Once each cold shower and I don't know what it does, but I just kind of fun
Careful careful with that when you're
standing up it's uh you got to just be careful with the the standing up holding breath i did like
uh like i've done i live in canada and i live in atlantic canada which is very cold and i've
practiced like thermal therapy for uh well the on the sweat lodge side of things on the heat side of
things for 15 years but then on the cold side probably for for 15 years, but then on the cold side, probably for about six years. So I've done like, I have a nice bath out back and in the winter, I'm, you know, in the
morning, we'll, you know, break the ice open and watch the sunrise in my tank and do like extended,
extended like five to 10 minutes sometimes and, you know, almost subzero water. And, but the breath work aspect is, is probably overlooked a lot. And, um, yeah, so
it's, it's, it's quite beautiful. So I'm happy we're bringing it up because it's another thing
that you don't have to pay for that you can choose to do. And, uh, like Roxanne, man up and,
and actually get into the cold water and learn how to, you know, experience stress in a conscious
way. And then, uh, acclimatize that into something that helps with your ability to, you know, experience stress in a conscious way and then, uh, limitize that into something that helps with your ability to, you know, uh,
navigate your nervous system and external forces.
Me and my brother used to do this weird thing. We would at the,
at the gym at 24 hour fitness,
we would go in the steam room and we would, um,
manipulate the heat cause it only would go to a certain amount,
but you could pour cold water on the sensors and it would override it.
And so we would push it as hard as we could and stay in there as long as we could.
And then we would go and we would jump and dive into the cold pool and we would hold our breaths for as long as we could.
for as long as we could. And it was this like crazy, weird, euphoric-likeness and like just
was a really cool way to end our gym session, our lifting sessions. I don't know if it's healthy.
It's also probably very dangerous. We were always like, let's be careful and like watch each other.
So one of us doesn't like pass out and die or something, but it was kind of fun.
pass out and die or something, but it was kind of fun.
Yeah. I mean, uh, thermal therapy is really interesting. Um, a lot of this, like,
like super hot to super cold, to be clear. Yeah. Yeah. Like, okay. So for example,
like saunas are one thing, like the, the, the ability to actually experience, um, stress,
like for example, when I do sweat lodge ceremonies,
like a traditional indigenous sweat lodge ceremonies, um, the, the heat is, you know,
10 to 10 times hotter at the peak of each round than any type of like hot, hot sauna, right. To
the point of like, you know, it's, it's, it's intense, but the, the, the key, the reason why
I'm saying this, and then also the cold immersion when you go into
like frigid water. And then also with the sweat lodge ceremonies, it's hot from the beginning,
but then the heat gradually increases. The key thing is about conscious awareness of your nervous
system and how you actually regulate sensation through self-awareness and then other aspects
as well too. So for example, like
in the sweat lodge ceremony, it's very ceremonial. It's all about God and connection to prayer and
connection to spirit so that you can become as all of these things like the drumming, the dark,
the prayers, the teachings, the gradual heat increase into the songs, into the highest level
of heat before the door opens and you leave. It's all about connecting
as deeply to yourself and as deeply to God so that your prayers are as profound as possible.
So you're creating as much of a channel as possible for your prayers to be as strong as
possible. So the reason why I say this is it's all about like the practice around how we can connect
to our sensation through external stimulus. And so instead of like taking a substance,
you're using your body's awareness
and your connection to yourself.
So for example, the man up thing is
when you get into cold water,
you do a proper breath work like Wim Hof style
or a holotropic style beforehand,
you're oxidizing your body,
ridding your body of as much carbon dioxide as possible, calming your nervous system as much as possible. And then you're oxidizing your body, ridding your body of as much carbon dioxide as possible,
calming your nervous system as much as possible.
And then you're manning up and getting in the water,
womaning up and getting in the cold water.
And the first 30 to 45 seconds is extremely intense.
Like it's,
it's you go into a shock type of response initially where your breath,
your,
your mind,
your,
the intensity of the cold.
But then as
you start to settle yourself and instead of run from the experience of the sensation of the cold
water activating your nervous system um you you feel like it's all about feeling as deeply as
possible that intense sensation instead of running from it because typically what happens like i've
experienced over years and years of being in the sweat lodge is whenever the, the, the, the, the, the, the heat is created in the lodge from
these heated stones are called grandfathers that are brought into the center of the lodge,
the doors close, and then the ceremony leader splashes water on the stones that creates the
steam. Right. And so as the heat comes down, it gets hotter and hotter and hotter. But what happens is when you feel the steam come
over your body, if instead you become adverse to the steam, if you try to get away from the heat,
it actually burns you. It becomes quite a bit more intense, right? But if you're able to actually
accept the sensation of the extreme heat or the extreme cold, you know, and allow for your body to
acclimatize to that. So instead, if you feel the heat come onto your top of your head,
but then instead of focusing into the top of your head, you allow for that sensation to pass
over your body, you can actually experience massive amounts of heat and massive amounts of
cold through, you know, allowing the sensation
to acclimatize in your body. It's all of these practices, whether they're ancient traditions in
the sweat lodge or they're newer, you know, newer traditions. I mean, the cold exposure is very,
it's an ancient Nordic tradition and it's also bathhouses and those type of things are
quite ancient in Taiwan and other places around the world. But, you know, the more that you're able to actually accept that suffering
and this constant desire to escape pain and suffering,
to always achieve happiness and all that thing,
like a lot of people have their purposes around achieving happiness.
Suffering is just a part of life and sensation is a part of life.
And the more that
we're able to accept that and actively in a safe way, move into difficult situations,
the more we're able to overcome those situations. You think of someone like Elon Musk or other very
successful people and people are always bitching and complaining, oh, they're super rich. They're
lucky, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's like that person on a day-to-day basis deals with more pain
and suffering than most people will ever experience in their life and more discomfort and challenge to have gotten to the
point where they can actually do the things that they do. So it's quite interesting. And this has
been a whole part of me working with substances and drugs and then ancient medicines and then
moving out of that into how can I use other, you know, things like cold and heat and those type of aspects to get even closer with, with suffering and get even closer with sensation and have more
self-control and less external reliance. But anyways, I'm going on there, but it's, it's a
really interesting topic. Let's, uh, okay. Let's let some of some of these uh audience members up hard k
yo yeah anything you want to throw in here quick anecdote about the sound healing um i had a friend
that um his dad was kind of affluent and the old record producer took him on a tour of egypt and they got a kind of like they they paid a lot of
money for a secret tour uh the temple of seti and the temple of seti is actually known for that
hieroglyph that looks like the the battle tanks and the helicopters if you're familiar with that
but that that mural is actually uh on the wall and it's kind of spanning from life to death, the end of time.
And they call everything a temple in Egypt, but the Temple of Seti, as described to them, is a hospital.
And the way that this hospital worked is once you go into the chambers that you're not allowed to see,
is that each room is tuned to a certain frequency.
So we hear about this in the king's chamber.
It's tuned to a certain frequency.
The aquifers would fill, and there would be this ionizing force.
They're still trying to figure that out with the pyramids of Giza,
whether that was for projection or vibrational energy that would lead to plant growth, other things.
I think that they were actually using the quartz obelisk to just kind of put up ionosphere and then download into the quartz crystal.
But the temple asceti, these rooms are tuned to your body.
So if you have liver failure, you go into the room that is the harmonic
frequency of healing, or if you have heart failure, other things. And if you look into actually the
most promising tech in cancer cures, it is just finding the resonant frequencies of the cancer
cells and just zapping it because you're not affecting anything else you're just finding the residents residents of that frequency of that cell zapping it it's
a resonance frequency and it just splits up and there's a TED talk about this and
they demonstrate it you can see it happen and it just makes sense to heal
it that way and you know a lot of these ancient cures and ancient things
supposedly there's a conspiracy the cover it up where we're not supposed to know if it's in the Vatican.
Yeah, but that Temple of Setti was, I've always, that's always stuck out to me with the sound healing.
And I think these things are just emergent.
And I feel like why these topics have become popular and why you're having this room is we're entering, we just exited Pisces and we're entering the age of Aquarius.
And whether you believe in astrology or not, there are cyclical patterns, the spiral staircase that come and go.
And entering the age of Aquarius, we do have a lot of vicarious kind of vectors of
maybe AI, nuclear. I think that the biggest threat is actually going to be
genetic engineering. So people talk about AI. That was already done in the 80s and
the 90s, you know, you remember the Cold War. Yeah, go ahead, proceed, I'm sorry.
Yeah, well it's gonna get more crazy because with the advancement of these tools and, you know, everything that they will start messing with stuff.
And then it only takes one thing, whether it's COVID engineered likely, or if it's just making salmon so they don't, you know, fornicate and then that gets leaked.
so they don't fornicate and then that gets leaked.
But something worse than that will probably,
I think that we worry about robots,
but probably the biology is going to be the death of us.
Anyways, that's all I had.
And we've actually been scanning thousands of esoteric books
and knowledge and kind of putting this all together
to disseminate
between the woo-woo and like and then the hard facts and then finding throughout all
these publications what are the connections that are made and then we're going to make
that available in a chat interface so that's kind of what we're doing but very interested
in all these topics and keep hosting these spaces
um hi i also want to add something um i'm a practicing clinical psychologies uh based on pakistan um and in my practice like you're talking about the sound and stuff right so
stuff right so in my practice what i've observed is that your sound also matters so much that it
induces certain emotions and in other people and this is what i've observed like i i administer
some sort of relaxation exercises and meditation exercises onto my patients and this is uh like i've got
reviews about this thing that they um kind of say that the sound i the way i pronounce words or the
way i uh you know go into higher pitch or lower pitch that that is the most effective tool uh
in you know uh helping them realize or heal or you know go um relax to a certain degree
um rather than the exercise in itself and apart from uh this like I've observed that there are many like sound was incorporated in many religions as well.
To, you know, to put its followers to help them relax.
And it is something that is that can be absorbed.
Like even if you don't follow that religion, you can still kind of feel the
energetic shift.
For example, like in Hinduism, they do this om and the bell
with the bell or there is some sort of resonance.
And you can actually feel it to a deeper level.
In Islam, it's about um Azan like there is no music but uh
Azan like the way uh they pronounce and uh the rhythm it has the Quran has rhythm the way it is
recited so it has effects on its believers and also uh like non-believers. Similarly, in Christianity,
the singing of a bell
and the singing during Sundays,
you know, whatever the day is like
and singing in choirs or something like that,
that also has kind of an effect on people
who don't even follow that religion.
So yes, sound has a very strong impact on how we see the world.
And it also kind of has some sort of negative effects as well.
Like there are researches being done on the kind of songs you listen to
and its impact on your mental health and
how it influences it. So the people who kind of listen to certain frequencies or certain songs,
they might feel more depressed or that might induce a depressive symptom or maybe just you we can say that the sadness into them and certain music or certain musical instruments might induce joy or other emotions into people.
So I think like there should be more studies about this thing. And I think that sound is very healing and therapeutic.
And the way you deliver it has quite an impact on the people.
That's all from my side.
Thank you so much.
Thank you for sharing, both of you guys hard k and maham
thank you and we have let's see we have one more request let me bring them up and i'm giving you
all follows as well and when i see people in the audience who follow me, I also try to follow all you guys in the audience.
Then we'll wrap up here pretty quick.
We've been going a long time.
This was a marathon.
I think Prometheus had his hand back up.
I brought a like coin on stage.
Then Aztec, if you want to shout out audience members,
then I can read comments.
Sure.
Just very quickly,
what Maham was saying is absolutely true. So listening to 440 hertz, this was a change that was done by design by you know the Rockefeller
crowd and it's you want to listen to music in 432 and more kind of like natural frequency ranges it absolutely
does have an impact also oh nice i'm glad you brought this up thank you i was thinking it
yeah exactly nerd girl um and and also like uh uh bluetooth headphones please stop using that
crack okay like wired headphones. There is a place.
Uh-oh.
All right?
Yes.
I have them in like 24 seven, even when I'm sleeping.
Yes, get rid of those.
Brother, you want to get wired headphones, all right?
And the last thing I want to say, Rock,
is I would love to explore doing something
like a quick swap healing center or something of
that sort. And I'm happy to run it and get others to possibly do it. Simply because I think a lot
of these ideas at this point, we need to test it out. And I think it'd be a great way to expand
the quick swap economy. One thing I've realized about cryptocurrencies
being in this space for nine years and also currencies in general,
is that in order for them to grow in their, like it's kind of the opposite of the job market. Like
in the job market, you're told, oh, you know, go be a specialist and then you'll become valuable.
With currency, it's exactly the opposite. You need to
be a generalist across multiple industries. Look at successful growths of Singapore and other
major currencies, even Bitcoin and others. The more industries you add to a particular currency
type, the greater its value can become. And you have to
ensure that they go from infant industry to something that can be scaled. Absolutely,
healthcare at this point and crypto have a lot to do with one another. And Roth, yeah,
just wanted to throw that out there and would love to have a conversation about it and see what we can do i've been the realm of dsai lightpoint have you dove into dsai category
i've i've explored some deep and i think dsai is awesome you know and definitely we can do a lot of
cool dsai with um with a lot of the
topics we've discussed today everything from psychedelics through to sound healing and
everything else very cool very cool oh prometheus sorry you were you were speaking brother i
apologize got confused there for a second but yeah, yeah, it's an interesting thought.
I guess I get where you're going with it.
But, yeah, it'd be up to the β I guess, Brock, you guys would have to put a vote up.
That's something you're interested in.
I'd have to know more of what it means or what it would be
it doesn't seem like an obvious connection dex and healing but i mean we could talk about it sure
yeah man i'll uh i'll i'll throw up a proposal for you um we could set up something like a
healing center in a place like washington uh they've legalized thylacibin use there, microdose.
Definitely for PTSD, it's extremely valuable.
There's lots of scientific studies on this,
but as the doc mentioned,
like we do need to have careful studies
before bringing people in,
but absolutely more and more people
are turning to this stuff. And rather than them going to South America or some
crap and you know doing ayahuasca and all kinds of other things I think in a
clinical controlled setting it could be it could be very powerful and yeah
neurogenesis is the big reason why I've explored psilocybin myself.
And I've only done it like three times now.
I haven't touched it for like three years at this point.
But when I did it, I did it across two years.
Man, you never feel the need.
It's not like meth and some of these other drugs.
You never feel the need to do it more and more.
We did it in a sacred kind of
setting like there was a practitioner there were sound bowls and it was a really like intimate kind
of setting we all knew one another and um uh we're friends basically and it was it was very like
cathartic and lots of you know lots of uh you know held lots of, you know, held back emotions, traumas, these sorts of things came up,
and we kind of, like, moved through it together, and it was actually an incredibly healing experience, but, you know, you...
Yeah, shrooms can be, like I said, I haven't done a lot of the other, any of the other stuff, but shrooms can be a very...
but, uh, shrooms can be a very, um, some of the most, uh, I mean, I've done, so I haven't done
an actual dose of shrooms in probably like 15 years or something, but, um, but like I've done,
uh, micro doses of shrooms. Maybe, I don't know, maybe I'm getting, uh, I said, I said,
man the fuck up, but, um, maybe I'm being a little bit of a weenie in my later life. And I don't know if I'm ready for a big shroom trip these days, but.
The thing with shrooms is that people get wrong.
But my point is they, they could be magical is what is my only point, but yeah, go ahead.
Is that, they only have to open the door once.
And then like when I take mushrooms now, I did it so much in high school.
I just feel like I poisoned myself, but it it's like i already learned what they gave me and it's kind of like um i've
taken other psychedelic weird psychedelics like morning glory seeds and things and you kind of
like absorb the like like when i they're seeds basically and when i was high on these seeds i
was seeing ants and like all these planetary things and it was like kind of like the um the memory of the plant in a way but once you
kind of learn your lesson from shrooms you don't have to keep doing them and then and later in
life you're like but everyone should obviously experience that once i had a friend i might have
tried those when i was a kid i don't think, but I had a friend who would order those online.
They were just like some plant seeds and he would,
I don't know how he would do them, take them or smoke them.
Or I don't, I think he would just eat them.
It's LSA there.
You take like a, it's like a derivative of LSD,
but it's like natural seeds that have the listergic like molecule in it it's
called lsa but yeah it's like it's like the experience of taking lsd but maybe we would
actually we started stealing morning glory seeds from the like home depot and stuff or yeah and
they had them at home depot well you could get morning glory seeds and lsa is in morning glory
seeds but you need such a high value you have to take you have to take a lot of get morning glory seeds and LSA is in morning glory seeds, but you need such a high. You have to take,
you have to take a lot of the morning glory ones to actually get it.
The ones that you can order online,
you can take about like 12 to 13 seeds and it's like maybe half a dose of like
the normal dose of trait of LSD,
which is like 0.00,
like eight or something on a tab or like in a liquid dose um but uh do you guys have guys ever
experimented with salvia oh my god salvia is oh my god man you're reminding me so i guess i have
done stuff outside of shrooms yeah i did salvia a couple times as a kid that was ridiculous it's
just such a massive like disassociative like i i i've used a decent
amount of ketamine in the past as well to mix with some other substances because it's a i never
really got into um disassociatives like opiates and stuff but uh ketamine is a different type of
disassociative where it doesn't affect your um circulatory system like opiates says it's a
nervous system reactant so So it can be,
it can have those psychedelic experiences, but it doesn't affect your blood flow.
But salvia is, whoa.
What is salvia? Oh, you know what else? There's another one that was like that,
that I tried was the spice stuff in college. Actually, I tried that.
Yeah. I don't know about the spice this stuff but salvia is like a plant and
it's a massive disassociative of disassociative psychedelic and you like like i have experiences
when i was like 17 18 years old in college where i was on like class trips and stuff um and i was
out we were out in the woods doing like wilderness first aid and smoking salvia
and just completely,
completely going out of like,
dude rock.
I can tell you some hilarious stories about my past in regards to this stuff.
But anyways,
completely go into another world.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But it only lasts like what,
like 30 seconds or a minute or something well it can
it can last a couple minutes right but like literally completely outside of your mind like
you're in a completely different reality it's a different dimension yeah it's like a different
dimension completely yeah and that's where like you know i've had experiences with DMT that were out of body experiences that were incredibly psychedelic and other substances as well, too.
I won't go into too much depth around it.
But as I say all of this stuff, I don't suggest anybody just goes and smokes salvia or uses psychedelics.
Or I don't suggest anybody uses DMT. If you want to have experiences that are
more around healing, people, I'm very libertarian in the sense that you can do whatever the fuck
you want yourself, but I'm not suggesting people do this for healing purposes. But this was 15
years ago. And I have a history of trying to escape reality to deal with stuff that I needed
to deal with in other ways, which now I do.
But yeah,
salvia was a really crazy one because it was,
it was legal in Canada that you could buy at like just shops because they, it was used as an incense to help with relaxation because it is a
dissociative.
And then,
you know,
kids like myself or it was legal in the United States to smoke shops.
And then you,
you could purchase it in
like different strengths like yeah 20x 40x 50 60x almost like you're doing some leverage
these days i'll never i had the worst experience i was taking 60xers and smoking like as much as I could in like in bowls like and just going for it and
crazy just like face dives literally from standing up on a beach beside the water smoking like a like
a rip of salvia into like taking face dives into the sand and like being completely like in a
different place 100% and then coming out like 90 seconds later 60 seconds later being like whoa
what just happened and then realizing okay we i just smoked salvia basically right um crazy crazy
i it's it's after this and i forgot i forgot all about that until you just mentioned it i that was
yeah that must have been almost you know whatever 25 years ago or something after the talk with dr
mu and just like really seeing how far things have come,
because I'm 34 and I grew up in Atlantic Canada,
which is the most rural area in Canada.
It's like, it's almost 10 years behind
or five years behind on a lot of things
up until, you know, social media and technology
really took off.
And now everything's a little bit more balanced,
but I grew up in a place where it was just like,
you know, there wasn't awareness around any of these things at all. And, you know, it was like people partied
really hard. And so to hear how far things have come and experience how far things have come,
because me drinking ayahuasca when I was 20 years old was pretty, like that was 14 years ago,
that was pretty advanced in the sense like of you know
most people didn't even have an idea at all about any of those things right but uh that was because
i was searching for something more and searching for deeper connection and had already gone through
a lot of the experiences of taking lsd and high quantities for, you know, days at a time, experimenting in the woods and
at festivals and I got to pause you there and ask you, so we got to, guys, we got to wrap up.
So if anyone else wants to speak, we're going to let you up. I actually have another call in eight
minutes. Um, so we really do got to wrap, but, um, yeah, like LSD is that's just acid, right?
I might sound stupid. Okay. All right. So acid, positive experiences, worry.
I mean, like that's one I, a lot of my friends did when we were young and I just never would touch it because I was just afraid of frying my brain.
But yeah.
Brock, I've had both.
Positive, negative.
I've had both.
And like, okay, so I'm Zendo certified, which is like what they use at a lot of festivals for when people have psychedelic
freakouts. And what they always say is when people come to you and say that you're having a bad trip
or they're having a bad trip, that you really need to reframe it as having a difficult experience.
But like every difficult experience that I've ever had on psychedelics has been more beneficial
than any just like really happy experience I've ever had.
So it's difficult to classify it as like a bad trip or a good trip because the things that I've
learned, the way that I've like learned and grown more is when things go awry.
I'll let everybody else comment first and then I can, I can, I have lots to say about it, but
I'll keep it short, but go ahead guys. go ahead guys yeah quick quick disclaimer we're not endorsing any of the stuff
that we're talking about I think we're just the panel has kind of gone more
down a trip down memory lane at this point and it's not the opinion of any of
the projects that are here but yeah I like the the discussion it's interesting
absolutely i don't know if anyone else want to add on one quick thought final thought here
miraculous healings happen also through the holy spirit and following the lord jesus that that i
have absolute hard evidence for there's a gentleman who literally didn't have a brain at a liquefied brain and
He died went to heaven met the Lord Jesus came back and had a brand new materialized brain
This was before and after fMRIs no medical explanation
You know people still the blind still see the lame still walk
So I would say in terms of healing there
has been nothing more powerful than just an analog no psychedelics involved
relationship with the most high but no other outside of that if you want to
explore of course you know safely again not a recommendation or anything but
there are therapeutic potentials for a lot of these systems.
And, you know, as long as you explore, I think, cautiously in the right setting, it can be beneficial in certain circumstances. Absolutely.
Yeah, no one's brought up prayer today, but, you know, there's definitely, I think, something that we could maybe dive into at another time.
Don't want to open up a can of worms, but fully agree.
Yeah, so just a quick side on LSD.
I don't use any of these substances anymore.
It's been years.
But yeah, it's just like anything. These are very powerful
substances, so they have to be respected deeply. And Dr. Mu earlier, I had spoken on how there's
ways to kind of test before using these substances if you're prone to some of the side effects that
can occur from using substances in smaller, larger amounts.
So that's, you know, super, super important, no matter what. My experiences, this is the thing,
like, I've had some beautiful experiences, but also incredibly tragic experiences as well, too.
And so just to kind of talk on the idea around, you know, bad trips or bad experiences, this is a crazy thing.
Okay.
If you go to traditional places in South America or you go to Apache, you know, Mescalito, peyote practitioners in the United States, or, you know, maybe iboga practitioners in Africa, blah, blah, blah. A part of the actual experience of healing
and connecting to God is a facing darkness and challenge.
And so most people that are at these music festivals
or at these experiences,
they're taking substances and having shamanic experiences
that they're supposed to be having
more regulated, safe, caring places with supposed to be having, you know, more and more regulated, safe
care in places with, you know, traditional practitioners and people or maybe the lab
coach shaman to help them go through these dark experiences in a safe way so that they can face
those parts of themselves to integrate more of, say, trauma. And this is the sad thing about,
you know, these experiences is they can be beautiful. They can be, I've had incredible experiences with MDMA.
I've had incredible experiences, healing experiences with a lot of these substances.
But this is the thing is when people are in, you know, music festivals or there's tons of energies and unsafe experiences and, you know, not places where they can get away and calm themselves down or whatever.
People are not actually going into these visionary experiences in a safe way where it can be away and calm themselves down or whatever, people are not actually going
into these visionary experiences in a safe way where it can be actually more detrimental to them.
So, Rock, to answer your question, there is a lot of benefit to these things, but I think the best
way to go about it is to be able to actually see beforehand if you have maybe some epigenetic prone
history of maybe like bipolar or some of these other aspects and then the set setting and space
and how you work with these substances and to know that you don't actually need these substances to
to heal but that you know there's there's benefits to it as well too so that's been my experience
which has been pretty holistic and pretty it has been experimental um but also pretty beneficial
yeah matt that's like a great point and i just just want to highlight it. It's that like when you're using psychedelics therapeutically
instead of recreationally,
you're usually attempting to go through a difficult trip
as opposed to like people who use psychedelics recreationally
at music festivals, as you said,
who are just trying to like hang out
and have a good time with their friends
and sometimes get thrown into something unexpectedly.
Yeah, 100%. I would I would like to add that like I've never tried anything like that and I have had like the way you're describing your experiences with these psychedelics and stuff. I feel like I have these kind of experiences without that through dreaming,
like where I was maybe going through some difficult circumstances
of have gone through some difficult circumstances in the past
and I was not able to process those emotions in the um at that time
but I kind of processed those emotions through dreaming and it was like kind of therapeutic and
healing in a way as well so I I don't understand like uh what's the point of using these
psychedelics
if they have potential of
harming you and these
sort of experiences can
happen on your own
like I think
a body is made this way that
when it is ready to
process some things those
things happen on their own.
And our mind kind of sometimes starts off some experiences which are difficult for us
for a certain time.
And then when we are ready to experience them and deal with them, it kind of happens on
its own.
So why kind of force this healing onto you through psychedelics?
So nobody here was ever advocating that anybody should do psychedelics. We were talking earlier
in the space about like, you know, that it is an option for some people. We had a, you know,
a clinician here talking about it. I think for a lot of people, the reason that they do them for
healing benefits is because they're facing something that's potentially life-threatening,
right? Like there are people who use psychedelics for healing from addiction and things like that.
But again, like nobody here right now is a doctor or is advocating for it at all. In fact,
we've said several times, you don't actually need them. We were just talking
about them as a modality for mental health, because it's very, you know, it's become a hot
topic in a way that people are dealing with mental health crises. Yeah, I understand that. Like,
it's just a forethought. Just like, I cannot have opinion on this
because I don't have any research.
I haven't researched about the topic
and I haven't experienced it myself
and you guys are more,
you know, well-versed on the topic.
It's just a thought that I'm putting out
that like you can think about this
in this way as well.
I think like all things, you have to weigh the risk to reward.
That's what humans are.
Our brains are just risk to reward machines constantly.
And so like caffeine is a drug that many people use.
And for most people, they think the reward outweighs any consequences.
I think caffeine is a net positive for society, probably in moderation, right, like anything.
But the question is, and that's what we're trying to, I think, discover today here,
is are these things worth doing?
For me, I'm probably going to still stay away from most of the things we talked about today
because it's just the same assessment I had 20 years ago is it's too risky. But there's
some things that I think are worth doing. Once in a while, smoking some pot. Once in a while,
you know, microdose or more of mushrooms. For me, those are like risk rewards that make sense and that I've found positive in
my life. Most of the other stuff, the jury is still out. I'm not saying I'll never do these
things. I would like to probably try like, I don't know, one of these ayahuasca ceremonies
or something someday, but I don't know. I haven't done enough research to know if it's worth it for
me yet. I'd probably want to see more like peer reviewed, you know, journal entries and studies and, you know, this kind of stuff to know,
you know, the repercussions. Yeah, but since you are a doctor, let me just tell you, like,
if you're interested in looking into some of the, some of the research on this topic, there have
been quite a lot of studies done about MDMA and psilocybin specifically, as well as other
psychedelics. You should look into MAPS. It's the Multidisciplinary Approach to Psychedelic
Studies, MAPS, and you can find a lot of the research there.
Yeah, there's definitely some positives for some of these things right there's been a bunch of studies about um i think microdosing or even like big doses helping with people who had depression
like lifelong depression and they just do some mushrooms and all of a sudden depression is now
gone like crazy stuff um there's studies about it uh it seems promising that's why i think a lot of
places are legalizing it now because they're seeing that this can be used as a medicine.
But anyways, okay, guys, I am now four minutes late for a call.
This was really fun.
LikeCoin, did you get a chance to say something?
I don't know if you did.
Okay, perfect.
We're going to drop here, guys.
Thanks so much, everyone, who is here matthew
you were here the whole time uh prometheus thanks for coming thank you polygon for co-hosting uh
always appreciated and uh darren behind the quick stop account nerd girl thank you for co-hosting
and and putting together a good show and having great questions and things and helping book the
guests uh and thanks to the all the. Appreciate all you guys for listening so long. Hope you guys, um, hope, hope you guys all enjoyed
this and, uh, yeah. See you next week. Thanks everybody. Great. Take care. Everybody. God
cheers guys. Bye-bye. Happy Friday.
