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LEDGER DISCUSSION ||| The Rly Good Web3 Show
Recorded: May 17, 2023 Duration: 2:39:33Space Recording
Full Transcription
and we're uh we're vibing that's incredible man yeah it's uh i think you're you're more you're
getting into like the pretty weather up there uh to my brothers in the northeast man yeah uh new
york's weather is beautiful jersey is probably really nice right now too so i'm glad you're
having a great tuesday man that's what it's all about that's what it's all about enjoying your
day um making sure you're being productive while also you know just being grateful for a lot of
shit sound like gt up here um i wish though but yo we let's say let's say out a couple people man
before we dive into a couple things i know i i've already shot a couple dms out uh put out some
feelers waiting for some people to trickle in but in the meantime let's pass it over to og og what's
going on man happy tuesday happy motherfucking tuesday rudo happy tuesday eddie uh the daily alpha you
know you're i know you're not gonna throw an emoji up but you know i love you too uh flurry was popping
look look look look look look look look look it's been a goddamn great day it's been a great day i'm
not gonna lie i just picked up a camera i just picked up a mic you know what i'm saying uh content
battle go crazy it's about to go crazy look i'm headed to vcon gonna make a few bangers uh rudo
eddie i know y'all are headed to fucking miami so uh if we don't see some bangers from y'all i'm blocking
both of you that's all oh snap i was muted i was muted i was muted my bad um look man i i'm i'm uh
doing a photo finish right now on trying to figure out if i'm gonna send it or not it's easy for me
because i just get in my car and i drive for like three hours and all of a sudden i'm in miami so
i i'm grateful and lucky enough that i can decide if i'm gonna go down to miami basically last minute
if i need to but i know eddie's probably packing like as we speak so eddie what do you are you what's
good man tell me about the the travel plans here i'm a last day packer so i've not packed whatsoever
i'm also um currently getting i'm currently in my texts um i'm getting texted from a hot babe just
kidding um his name is uh i think victor and he works you know vitor and he works with united
and he's telling me that i have a carry-on bag so sick i'm gonna have
i'm gonna have my carry-on bag so i'm gonna pack that either tonight or tomorrow and yeah dude i mean
like as for travel plans i come in thursday i'm leaving sunday morning i'm leaving super super early
sunday morning like 7 a.m which means get at the airport by like 6 or 5 30 which means your boy's
probably not sleeping saturday night uh so otherwise you know looking like a pretty jam-packed week i
think it's gonna be fun as all hell uh but what what exactly that manifests as we'll see i'm hoping
to get some good merch though like that's lots of caps lots of nice shirts eddie knows all about
i don't know it's gonna be way too hot for hoodies but yeah that's just generally the the strategy
stuff that's on the mind and things i'm looking at for this coming week dude um yeah i'm gonna i know
for a fact i'm gonna get really really big fomo the only thing stopping me from being a hundred percent
all in is i have like one of my best friend's weddings and i'm like in the wedding i'm like an
actual groomsman um on friday so like it breaks up my whole situation there but i know some events
start wednesday if i'm not mistaken right eddie i actually don't know i think so i think they do
i can send you the that you know that cheats thing like cheats that xyz that people are using
for yeah that one they've actually co-opted it for uh miami as well so you know you could just use
that that actually that's actually that's where i found funny enough for bitcoin miami i will be
going to the solana saga event which is literally like the antichrist uh but i'm going so i love that
dude no i think there's there's going to be in like an incredible i think it's going to be one of
the best bitcoin miami events ever in my opinion like even even outside of peak euphoria that we
probably saw in some bitcoin uh conferences like even like 2021 or 2020 i think this one there's
just something something's in the air something's brewing um and i think we're going to see some
really cool if it's if it's miami the thing in the air is could probably cocaine yeah that too
that that probably too um yeah my body's the temple so i don't do any of that stuff but you
know what i want to pass it over and say what's up to jen um i saw she just came up and then i'm
gonna i want to go over to begin and yogi and say what's up to everyone jen happy tuesday
jen before we say hello i just have to say one thing um only because you know while we start this
thing off um i want to remind that you guys who are both in the audience and here on stage um
you guys are our core audience you guys are are the the day ones the show up when when you see it
pop up on the screen and that means a lot like genuinely um without you guys there's there's like
you are the foundation upon which the building is built and that means a lot so thank you guys
for coming out jen what's going on oh wow i mean just happy to be here trying to not fomo into
miami flights but also um fomo yeah i don't know it's it's a decisional make and like the next
i texted my i need to get my hair done so bad and i texted my hair girl and i was like are you
available and like her timing is my timing and i'll probably see you fuckers there
let's go my i'm literally gonna go get my haircut tomorrow so uh bet jen you and i both at the last
time i got my haircut was right before nftnyc so and then the time before that was for nftly so
my hair schedule is entirely based off of nft conferences it seems so if i think the next one
will probably be before azuki and then after that uh i have no idea when i'll get my haircut again
i might not ever get it cut again we'll see eddie you don't dude how often do you get haircuts
like once a month maybe maybe a little bit more a little bit less oh man you gotta pump those numbers
up man gotta pump those numbers up listen you when you look good you when you look good you feel good
all right you put your you perform at your utmost best i can assure you that's why why do you think
athletes get all dripped down in like their their athletic gear prior to a game it's like when you
genuinely feel like you look good you perform good so yeah i i try to get a haircut at least every other
two weeks but you know i'm also half colombian so you know my hair grows an insane amount but anyways
that's probably uh tmi but you know what let's go over and say what's up to some other people
i want to go pass it over to the legend himself begin happy tuesday brother how are you doing
good good but you got it all wrong rudo don't you know it's the less haircut that's how you know
someone's getting paid okay you see a developer he's got that shaggly beard terrible haircut you're
like damn he's getting money you see someone clean haircut looking nice nice clothing you know
they're broke they want a job so bad they're begging it's a sign i see a dude with that stained shirt
rolling up to the nice place in the sweatpants i know he's developing so you know doing good
jealous i'm not going to miami it's all good man uh listen man devs are the exception to the rule
definitely not the rule i mean they're they're just so big brain that they have a skill set that
they can make a ton of money and they just stay in the dungeon and just code all day and i respect
that because at least they're actually building and doing cool stuff i i just end up in my dungeon all
day and just talking to cartoon jpegs on the internet so i don't know man there's probably
more skill sets involved with uh one over the other i'm not gonna say which one you guys decide
for yourselves but i appreciate it begin i want to go over and say what's up to yogi uh one of my
favorite zookis hands down he was in he slid in my dms also asked if i was going to miami um to me
that kind of sounds like he's gonna pay my whole trip so i want to say what's up to yogi how are you
happy happy tuesday what up guys uh dude i need to hit up my friends that i know because i don't
know bitcoin people so i was like i'm just trying to know who from the nft squad is about to roll in
the ordinal week because i i was literally starting to plan and i'm like dude i don't know like any of
these people like i was texting eddie i was like dude i don't have the like new york nft new york was
easier like you kind of know the teams and they can get you into events you don't need to like
do the dance and then it's like bitcoin's like i think we have to buy these tickets we got to do
all we got to do everything we don't have the we don't have the swag is that the right term do we
still use swag um and and then it's also expensive yes i use it okay yeah it's just so expensive because
i'm looking at hotels my ticket was expensive and i'm like dude this trip's gonna cost me like two
weeks and like do is it like how do i justify this and then i'm like well you know i need to go with
an open mind i need to just show up i'm gonna do some stuff in the eco i need to meet people this
will be a good way to get out of my comfort zone even if i go and i like go to like three events
and i meet five people that's enough like my goal is to meet five people and i'm hoping i beat that if
i don't uh i'll be on spaces with you guys and maybe crying a little bit maybe eating some ice cream
uh for my hotel room but otherwise yeah dude i'm pumped well i will be uh 20 of those people
unless unless you need to be like a new me or something no dude i so i know you're going we got
dan value in time if anyone knows him he should be down there um malik's gonna be there obviously uh
zk is gonna be there and but i'm like five new people and then obviously like whoever else shows up
um but dude it should be exciting uh i don't know i've never been to a bitcoin miami event i haven't been
to a bitcoin event generally like nft new york's the only event i've ever gone to so i'm open mind
open mind dude i i i'm so bullish on people who put them put themselves out of their comfort zones
and especially at these conferences i promise you the return on your time and putting yourself out of
your comfort zone is so well worth it i mean i remember seeing flurry at nft nyc and this is probably
like flurry it was this coming out party and uh i mean homie what do you mean by that
bro i remember seeing like a group of 10 people randomly and then flurry will just like
skedaddle right in the middle of them be like hey what's up guys i'm flurry they're like oh flurry
what's up man so i gotta i gotta post my most recent tweets at the top just give me a second
this is this is just i have to hold on do it man do it yo yogi uh i'm proud of you man yeah get out
there meet some bitcoin people um there's more to life than x dude you know more life than than
beans and azuki's um i know it's tough for you to to kind of fathom that but i promise i promise man
also i've now pinned it to the top you could see it um packing for bitcoin miami and those are my
expectations uh so you could just you know see the image on top uh that's yeah should be a great
time though yeah and if you don't know this already taproot wizards shout out to udi he's going to be
there and if you don't know they have their quest number three that's going to be going on in bitcoin
miami so obviously another potential way to get some whitelist there on probably the biggest ordinals
bitcoin mint that is going to happen this year so if you are down there buy yourself a wizard hat he was
not joking he was so serious about this like he wants to see as many wizard hats at the conference
as possible um so if you are going to be a bitcoin miami i don't know even if you got to make one from
like construction paper man just make one i i have to make a custom built one because my head is
just gigantic it's the size of two heads so yeah anyways enough about rudo that's pretty boring let's
go over and say what's up to flurry flurry happy tuesday man how are you happy tuesday it's like we
were just talking like 15 minutes ago that's crazy but um yeah man bitcoin miami is a lot like
consensus where um like those d5 people it's just all d5 people but like i gotta say i think you and
eddie and yoke i think you guys are really gonna enjoy it because those d5 people they actually have
money on like the nft people and those events are beautiful like rooftop bars um just like the people
are like a different level of like success versus all of us that live in our mom's basements and
like it is it is a really fun event um no one is gonna know who the fuck you are like you'd be
like dude like i run like a spaces show and they'll like spit on you but it's it's really fun
yeah for sure it's funny because i'll be like oh yeah what's up man you know uh i'm uh do you do
any podcasts you have like youtube or something like yeah i have 90 subscribers on youtube uh i hosted
a jpeg twitter space where i get you know 60 people in it and they're like oh uh cool man then
they'll walk away and they're like yeah i get 10 000 viewers on my my linkedin audio event space or my
podcast on apple music and just absolutely ruins my time but i'm bullish on people like that
bullish on people like that yeah there's gonna be a lot of vc money there and then there's gonna be a
lot of people that are looking for investments um like exactly like consensus was there was like 10
percent of people that really had the money and the other 90 are just chasing money but um it'll
be really cool to see like the lamborghinis and shit all the people flexing their money in miami i
know a couple of my homies from dubai are going there and did you guys just fucking live it up
sneak your way into parties remember they're all boomers they don't know what they're doing what
was that i'm not i'm not gonna fade vcon not on this space vcon's gonna be fun no it's gonna be
good uh it's definitely gonna be good i'm just i'm like nft'd out in terms of the the nft events
for like the last for you know the last two dude you say that man you say that and then when you go
to florida and you're at these parties in miami no one's gonna know who the fuck you are they're
gonna be like who's dancing eddie and you're gonna be sad honestly that's fine like it's i'll work
with it we'll make it we'll make things roll but you really can sneak into a lot of these parties like
again like in texas like just outsmart these people like act like three ways to get into a door
that your name is on the list for okay first way is just be really respectful and nice to the door
person don't yell at them don't ask and act entitled you should never do that a lot of people
do that and it's not the vibe okay so one two is just like super confident you grab a group of random
people and you're like they're all good they're with me it doesn't matter if they're good if they're
not good just say it confidently enough you're in the door um and then yeah that's that's those
two should work for now but like so so so what happens if like i do that the third that she didn't
say was just show up with like 30 women that are all extremely attractive no i wasn't gonna say that
because i know that none of you guys are gonna show up with 30 women
uh she's right though she's right i don't know she's never been on craigslist
oh craigslist is good i have been on craigslist
like i'm just gonna get it so i shouldn't lead with i have 2 000 followers on twitter
and uh a golden azuki is that is that you probably should not tell the door people you're in nfts
because they don't know what that means or they're gonna judge you like unless there's someone
from the project specifically at the door who's like there to help translate definitely do not bring
up nfts and definitely do not show them your wallet cringe it makes us all look bad so what happens if i
walk in and uh you know i'm like oh yeah they're cool they're with me they're like well who the fuck are
you uh so what's next steps there so like confidence it's confidence no og all you have
to do is tell them that oh um my mom walked in and i'm lost i i'm a minor i can't be walking the
streets by myself bro you're you're real lucky you're real lucky i don't have a mute button right
now rudo because y'all ass would have been on mute quick as hell just be like i'm scared i'm lost i
don't know where my parents are that's good that's good like i'm gonna walk in there and be like
my mommy's in there i'm a little spooky i'm a little bit spooked i'm scared i'm gonna start
speaking another language and just being like no english like uh you know someone's in here and
just walk in pretend i just landed let me tell you what you do you step up to the door they go who
are you you left you go funny guy and then you point to whoever else is working the door and you
laugh like it's like a huge fucking joke that he said that and then he's gonna be like oh fuck and
then you just walk through and you'll be like have a good night fellas no dude okay all of your all of
your guys's strategies are pretty terrible the easiest one by far is you buy an orange highlighter
like like construction worker vest you carry a clipboard you have a pen in your ear and then
you just go up to the door guy you go oh sorry man reggie told me back door's locked gotta go
i'm doing some internal stuff 140 pounds this doesn't work no you actually fucked up you guys
all fucked up you guys all club environment in a club environment it'll work if you're wearing all
black and have a flashlight that's like way more security vibes not the orange not at night um but
also it is miami so depending on the club uh it also is just how much cash do you have i know we're
not used to carrying that around unfortunately that is a currency that speaks um currently so you
know look i have the alpha i have the alpha i have the alpha for real og og we you have zero alpha
og absolutely zero alpha okay we're not trying to break into prom all right we're not trying to break
into prom over here we're talking about an actual conference my my boy so listen thank you for the
mute button eddie it was getting outrageous here for a second um all right let's take it one by one
and then i actually do want to hop in to what we're trying to the topic at hand for tonight um
obviously we're all just kind of trolling a little bit right now but we're having a good time this is
great um anyways let's go see what's up to goodfoot goodfoot happy tuesday brother go for it man
happy tuesday so jen definitely had the number one alpha mine could be number two or number one but
hers is by far number one so far no my suggestion would be floor something of value and buy an 11 nft
or take that cash to 11 and well you will a thousand percent have the best time that you fucking had
period that place is and the bitcoin guys they won't have it they won't have they won't have the 11 nft
because it's on ethereum oh my god okay but also if you're not leaving 11 when the sun is already up
and then maybe crossing the street to space like you're not going hard enough so just if you're
gonna go to 11 like do it right now going hard for me is having a spritz with my unlimited soup and
salad at olive garden all right so that's about as hard as rudo goes these days um my knees hurt my
lower back hurts you're not going to find me anywhere close to up at 3 4 in the morning outside
on the streets um if i am up it's because i'm talking to cartoon jpeg strangers on the internet
at around 3 a.m in the morning so yeah that's where we're at flurry's putting his hands now but
he's got youth on his side and and he probably gets the zoomies at around 2 a.m so i'll give him
that for sure i get it's good eddie gets the zoomies i've seen eddie get the zoomies um it's it's a
site to bear witness to i'll give you that um okay let's let's get to it yogi i promise if you
shill that you're in spirit now you're not getting anywhere in miami we have to we have to say hi to
miss we got to say hi to miss teen crypto uh it's nice to see you around here i don't get to see you
often around these parts round these parts so it's good to see you how's it treating you this uh this
tuesday afternoon hi eddie these parts are kind of cool you guys are cool people i'm doing great how are
you guys we're doing amazing you guys are cool i like your vibe in here and how you're trying to
get into all these parties because there's so many stories that i've heard in the past of people like
sneaking into conferences sneaking into parties and most of the time it's chill like you know you show
up you really want to get in you'll find a way everyone's a friend of someone in crypto
where where are you going this weekend you going to either of them um no i'm i'm like you know
staying in my humble home you know i'm focusing on the concept right now i was traveling for a while
so i'm just i'm just like doing my thing right now i'm not gonna make it she's 20 she's 20 she
wouldn't make it in the clubs anyway we have yeah they were loving in the club but
when has it ever stopped anyone um when has that i'm gonna advocate once again depending on clubs
i mean just be careful i mean jen look they say i'm 12 every fucking day i definitely went into
clubs in miami underage i'm i'm not even gonna lie so jen can you be like my guide like when i go to
miami when i'm 21 i will plan your 21st birthday for sure oh sheesh all right plans being made
oh man like like a sheep being sent to slaughter we hate to see it no i'm just kidding i'm just
kidding i'm just kidding you know what i i feel like i get the vibes from jen that she she plays
mama bear and she takes care of the fan that she's out with i can see that for sure i can see that for
sure jen takes care of her own i i definitely get that vibe from jen um oh yeah so yeah i think
that's great machine i think it's great that you're just going to be chilling at home you're
vibing you've been traveling a lot it's totally okay don't get the fomo if you want to just sit at
home chill at home i respect that the most i'm gonna hop down to make room 11 is the alpha and i stand
by that yeah and if you are going to go to 11 um just shoot me a dm i can pretty much get you in i have
uh some good close friends of mine i used to work in nightlife in clubs here in orlando and i a lot
of my friends moved down to work at 11 so one of my buddies is the um door manager so uh if you do
need a hookup or something like that just shoot me a dm uh i could probably get like a list compiled
or something like that and get you in for that so anyways um rudo was there a club that started with
an s or was it all space space that's the last time i'm trying to remember because the last time
jen's bringing back memories i've only been to miami once uh it was for a it was for a bachelor
party we flew in for 72 hours we didn't sleep i lost my voice i think we went to 11 if that was
like the club but 10 years ago this is 2013 and yeah it's uh it's a journey i'm hoping to take in
the the scenes this time yeah there's so much more there's so much more to miami than the clubs man
an incredible culture amazing food don't ever go to to like the south beach like little strip it's a
straight up tourist trap you're gonna be spending 20 for a beer just don't go there it's pretty dumb
there's so much more to offer in miami i can i can promise you that so should i not get my hotel in
south beach uh i would recommend not um i wouldn't do that maybe brickle um last alpha is that 11 has
really good breakfast pizza don't sleep on that yeah some breakfast sausage toppings that sounds
fire actually look rudo rudo rudo real real quick uh y'all want another real alpha to get into some
fucking clubs uh get in anywhere real to get in any anywhere for real uh you get a homie and you buy a
ladder and you just walk in there who the fuck is gonna stop two people with a ladder uh real shit
they need a personal mute button for og gloria i need you to stop talking forever og we're gonna
we're gonna skip you now but we appreciate that man um i respect your opinion no matter how terrible
it is i promise um okay let's go over to gg i want to say hi to gg and then go to zimmy
gg happy tuesday how you doing happy tuesday rudo and eddie i am doing well i'm in puerto rico
you know with my girlfriend but i was like you know i miss my dgens out there i don't know what
they're doing but you know i just want to pop in say hi that's how they're doing i hope not are you
i know everyone thinks ledger has a backdoor and you're all gonna lose your five dollar nfts and
your three dollars an e that can't even pay for gas um no guys there's no backdoor that's even the
wrong term to use backdoor something way different um in technical terms obviously and i'm a software
engineer um and yeah i don't know i'm just vibing my you want to say hi hola hi that's my best
guys can you can you so she's from puerto rico can you guys say puerto rico
puerto rico puerto rico my i said it in an italian accent on purpose my my girlfriend's
from puerto rico so she's from arecibo if you if you're listening in right now oh well i didn't
mean to take up the space but yeah i i love that you guys are hosting this today you know it's
important to be consistent so props to you yeah i appreciate it we've we've been doing this space
for 30 minutes and not at all touched on what the topic at hand is that's what happens we're
basically just trolling up here the entire time but that's okay i promise for those tuning in
give us some give us your patience we're gonna get to it i promise you we're just saying hi to the
homies right now and we appreciate that gg i hope you have an incredible time out there in puerto rico
i'm probably gonna be making a trip over there and also jen i'm moving to miami literally june 7
i am miami's newest resident in town i'm getting ready to launch two networking events one educational
one just for the funds for the homies so i'm really excited and we 100 have to hang out and
miss teen i will also take you i don't live in miami but like should i just move there too i don't know
i could i don't know i don't live in miami either but i feel like like all three of us like want to go
wow let's do it all three it's about to go nice to meet you gg nice to meet you send it
send it um that's a that's a power trio right there um yeah watch out guys don't talk to them
either don't you dare do it let them live um okay i'm gonna go over to zimmy zimmy got he he he got
mad because i i called on gg first and i'm sorry zimmy no it's all good i just my brother ladies first
you would you would call on me uh it's usually how it's been uh around here but hola bitches um
dude i'm excited for that was pretty good right um dude i'm when it comes to ledger i mean i guess
i'll try to get on like a real topic for a little bit um i it could be pretty important for mass
adoption i know the crypto community is is going nuts over it but there's just no world where people
will be using crypto wallets where everyone's writing seed phrases on paper like it's just not
a thing um so people like us who want to focus on controlling our assets and the decentralization
piece that's going to be there for you if there's someone who doesn't care about that which may end up
being a majority like people often like to sacrifice like security for uh convenience uh in
many aspects of life that's there for them um so i don't think people should be getting crazy over it
i'm sure tons of people already went and bought like treasures and other stuff and like swore on their
like family's grave that they'll never use ledger again because that's what web 3 does uh and that
kind of goes back to flurry's point on why they just spit on you and walk away um because everyone's
fucking stupid um but that's kind of my take on it and side note i am excited for vcon i can't wait to
go uh to an nft related event that's actually about uh the conference and technology uh instead of just
watching a bunch of plastered uh dgens walk around the streets of hey man new york and get stuck in
potholes i i didn't get stuck in a potholes let's just be clear about something but real quick real
quick thank you zemi um let's let's just kind of reset real fast and kind of i don't know if literally
like i think i think just about everyone in here has heard about what happened with ledger today
but uh if there's one person that didn't let's just kind of frame what happened so ledger kind of
soft announced their upcoming product release that product release is called ledger recover what is
ledger recover essentially it is ledger's way of allowing a user to have their uh to have their
seed phrase split into three encrypted pieces sent to three different entities three different companies
uh such that you know once they've kyc'd and kind of verified themselves as being a legit human
on on the way you know starting off later on if they ever need to recover their private key
they verify hey i am a real person and they connect their ledger their ledger nano x and boom
they can have their prep their private key which was split into three encrypted pieces into three
different companies put back together and have their ledger nano x functional again with their own
wallet now that is great for like a very specific type of retail customer who wants to not have to
worry about you know oh no i have this piece of paper that i lost or my house burnt down and uh i
can't i can't access it anymore like that's you know realistically it can be a pretty big problem
but at the same time uh the the bigger question that a lot of people immediately became concerned
with was uh hey wait a minute you just you you've been saying for a long time that my private key
is going nowhere but staying right here with me and uh here it is in the according to this firmware
update as being able to be sent out willy-nilly to any of these three companies and that that pissed
off a lot of the og crypto crowd now there's a lot to unpack there and a lot of questions to unravel
but that's the that's to you know kind of frame the discussion that's what the all the hubbub's about
and what's going on yeah and i'm actually going to pin something to the top um this is coming
directly from the team at ledger uh coming directly from charles uh we guillament i i mispronounced
that for sure but he wrote a whole entire thread um breaking this all down for those of you who are
curious so i'm going to pin it up to the top uh right now and so just a quick soundbite ledger
recover is our upcoming and optional service for users who want to secure backup of their secret
recovery phrase do you want to learn more about the onboarding process and specificities
a threat so he goes let's first clarify something key ledger recover is a service that you can choose
if you want to use it there's no auto opt-in with firmware updates now if you plan to subscribe
to ledger recover through ledger live you will have to create an account and go through an id
verification process i think they ask for a passport also if i'm not mistaken um and then on
your device after pin verification you'll be asked to initiate a ledger recover backup process
there are no further exchanges with the device whatsoever without this explicit consent so then
after the consent's verified your identity and everything else with your device the os will compute
a two out of three sss of your seed and encrypt them with this symmetric key and then what happens
with the symmetric key is that they send it to different companies around the world um so remember
guys that this is an opt-in feature that you need to sign and verify yourself if you even want to
utilize it otherwise you're essentially using the exact same ledger people have been using this entire
time now i know zk for example he had like some huge issues in regards to this like the fact of the
matter that it's even an option is a huge issue and concern for a lot of people now the question
i'm posing for everyone in the audience or those tuning in is what are your thoughts on this do you
think it matters whether there's an opt-in or an opt-out um system to it or do you think they
shouldn't have implemented this at all in the first place so i have like a few questions and i've been
speaking to the ledger team so one any questions that are like said here that we're still unclear on
i'll relay back but i think the way that it was announced made me realize that a lot of us really
didn't understand how our ledgers were working in the first place right like i think i was under the
assumption that it generated my 24 words one time and then like it just never touched those again but
that's not true every time you interact with anything on the blockchain like it is using your
seed phrase in this encrypted way and so from like what i've come to understand throughout today
is that like this is a capability right like these keys existing have it's always been possible so
yeah the like opting in sounds kind of scary but at the end of the day like i know i do a ton of
onboarding and education and like not just with people like us that are here every single day
um but also for like companies and like you know more web2 people and everyone always is like why can't i
have two factor for my wallet why can't i have insurance that's another huge part that they're
insuring it to up to uh 50k for you know people that opt into this program and it's only if your
stuff is accessed through you know identity theft or whatever but like that's big right i think these
are things that people have been asking for was it the best communication of it maybe not um but it
actually really inspired me because i was like this is fucking cool because so many people care
right like i feel like there's all these conversations around mass adoption it's like
no one cares how it works no one cares if it's decentralized but like we do and i think it's
important right like this tech working in the way that it's supposed to and the way it was built to
is why we're here and people still care about that so i think it's like a good takeaway for
companies building in this space that anyone that's here now understands to a degree but might
not understand the tech to the level that the builders do so we still need to keep educating
people and making that information available um i know this is like something that i want to work on
with this specifically with ledger right is like nothing is changing and so i think a lot of us need to
have a deeper understanding available um to understand how like all of this really works
and jen let me just say real quick i i i actually think that that was the crux of the issue like i
think the crux of the issue here was that people just straight up did not know how things worked with
ledger and you could hear that you could actually actively hear that in the uh in the conversations
that were held by the ledger team where they seemed almost confused because of course they know
like they know exactly how their product works because they built it right but like as they
described how it worked to them to them like as they talk to each other and this was one of my
frustrations with them holding a space with only each other on it like as they talk to each other
they're like i feel like we've just clarified everything like this felt you know kind of obvious
uh and it was like yes it was obvious to you but not to everyone else here who uses your products
yeah and just really quick on that because i know i asked a question in the space and they
move me down that they like dm they're like we're so sorry like we didn't even think about the fact
that you might have a follow-up um and i asked i was like why not have this as like two separate
updates right like one update where you have the option to opt in and then another one where like
that functionality isn't even there and they were like well that would kind of be a lie right like
it wouldn't you either opt in or you don't and so i think like that one i was like i like that you
said that right you're not trying to just like mislead us um but we we probably just need to
understand it because i don't think any of us or a lot of us i don't want to speak on behalf of anyone
but yeah i think a lot of us just didn't even know that our seed phrase was ever anywhere past the
first time you set up your ledger yeah and and i and i see your point and i want to give a shout
out because i try to read the comments as well as we're going through this then i want to call in
some hands and coming from crypto polls ledger has always said that our seeds can never ever leave
our device but now with this ledger recover bs they all of a sudden can't then they go on to mention
ledger has always said blah blah blah uh ledger give me my money back we bought a cold wallet
because it was supposed to be goddamn cold wallet okay so those that's kind of the sentiment in the
comments section right now um but i want to go ahead and give a chance for some people in here
to go ahead and give their take as well um by the way just real fast if you guys are enjoying the
space or find the space at all relevant to your interest feel free to leave a like or a retweet on
the bottom right that purple button it does mean a lot helps out the space a ton so that's your way
in the audience of of helping out the space so but ruto what's uh who's next um i'm curious to hear
what uh misteen crypto has to say mainly because most of us here are jpeg connoisseurs uh misteen
crypto has been actively working and defying the crypto space for years and years so i want to give
i want to hear your personal take on this uh misteen crypto honestly guys i'm not a fan uh because
fundamentally why we're here is to be our own bank we left the traditional financial system because we
didn't want to trust anyone else to store our wealth to have access to our wealth we some of us
made the same mistake with exchanges you didn't use an exchange like an exchange you know you use
an exchange to swap your fiat for a cryptocurrency you take that cryptocurrency you put it in your
wallet now when you get those wallet obviously you have those recovery phrases and you shouldn't
share those with anybody and i think even with what's going on in the world when you saw the
trucker protests in canada what happened was the government was sending um you know emails and
notices to all these web3 companies and wallets asking for the recovery phrases now is it possible
that maybe they could do the same thing with these three custodians that are holding your private keys
maybe um but i do think if you're you know truly about decentralization if you're truly about
onboarding people into crypto you should direct them in the fundamentals of the space which is being
your own bank so i think what ledger is doing is really contradicting the point of why they exist
and i think if we're gonna onboard people into a new system we should onboard them into the
fundamentals of what this is which is being independent and not relying and like like right
now with the banks we're always relying like we have someone holding our hand saying okay i got you
don't worry we have to cut that off we have to stop that we can't let people hold our hands forever
with the banks going down with the world turning upside down that's what this has to teach you
so i think uh what ledger is doing is going in the wrong direction beautifully said misting crypto and
i appreciate your take on everything and mind you guys i'm i'm gonna be sweden in this case i'm not
gonna die on any hill mainly because i want to operate as like a consistent host i want to hear
other people's takes um i want you to back up your opinion as well don't just say nah bro like i just
don't i just don't like it like actually get some ideation behind it like give us your reason so
with that said let's go and pass it over to begin um go ahead begin let's hear your take brother
yeah so uh whether the argument is this product is good for a group of like crypto uh newbies or
whoever that's like one thing i mean we all can agree it was a terrible rollout and one of the big
big reasons that it was a terrible rollout is even if it's opt-in it's still a firmware firmware update
to a device that you already bought if they would have just said here's a new device it's for crypto
newbies that has this no one would have cared it was the fact that wasted they said here's an update
that happens that now there's something that makes you uncomfortable now even if you say it's opt-in
well it's on my device if i do the update correct can i not get other updates anymore now but block
from this one even if it's not if opt-in it is a new attack vector it seems and i'm trying to
understand tactically if it is or if it's not people are working through that so i don't know yet but
it was definitely just a terrible rollout if they would have just said check it out we've got a new
wallet for people even if it's in the ledger space ian you know the ceo or whatever he is was like
this is not for people who have a five million dollar bitcoin bag right they insure up to fifty
thousand dollars right like that is it's not for a bunch of us and so the fact that they put it on an
already existing device i think was the major fuck up and then obviously communication they should
have known all these questions would have come out and they should have been ahead of it with a
million threads and they should have already hit up wale to like write a thread about this ahead of
time so the product might be good for some people right it might be it's you know a casual person
but you know bad rollout stuff that's all thanks and you have to kyc and pay them every month for it
so it's like you're just throwing your digital identity away at that point as well so it's like
i don't know sorry although real quick if it is like for a regular person wouldn't it just be better
if it was just like a password-based system where they controlled the private key entirely
like this this feels like a measure well no i think the point of it getting split up into three
different pieces held in three different countries by three different companies is to like still add
multiple layers of protection right so all three of those pieces would need to be put back together
and decrypted for your wallet to work i think like and this is something like i we are all crazy
about passwords in this space right like i used to manage talent and i have people that will come to
me like years after where like i'm like hey do you have a password system with your whole team and
they're like hey jen like by any chance do you still have my password and like passwords to things
that make them a lot of money and should be really important right like even me who has like a very
crazy thing with all of my c phrases right like there's still room for error and so i i think like
the part that to me that i just think we need to think about right is like when account abstraction
was announced everyone was so excited and everyone's like oh my god we need this um and so i guess like
i totally think like consent is a thing right and this feels like it's just being pushed on us um but
at the end of the day like i know that a lot of other wallets that are building with like account
abstraction and stuff like that it's gonna apply to historical wallets as well because i think on the
other hand if people didn't have the option right that uh they'd be like i need this or like i need
this functionality um so i don't think this is the last time we're gonna see this but i do think this
is a good way to like really decide as a community like what is the best way to roll this out for
historical you know accounts as technology gets better i like to begin's idea where it's like why
not just come out with the whole separate suite of product um and make that for the people who want
to get this opt-in or get that that firmware updated i know quarterly whatever maybe and the direct answer
i got to that is that like it would essentially be a lie and like i think i think probably and this is
me speaking not from what i know right but i i thought that too but maybe they were thinking
that people that already have ledgers would be annoyed and be like oh my god i have to buy a new
one um when they could send this update also only the nano x which has bluetooth which i think is sus
anyway um has this available for now but uh yeah i i totally agree but i also think that there's the flip
side of it where people would be like i just bought this and i have to spend 100 new dollars to get
this thing um i don't know you don't have to opt in i mean i don't know at this point those who do
have crypto or interact with the blockchain even if it's not on a daily basis but even if it's just
monthly okay gas prices transaction fees at this point will probably cost you more than a new a new
ledger product all right even if it's 50 bucks 100 bucks so i'm still in agreeance with english that i
think there should have been a completely separate product rollout for this i think at the end of the
day regardless the the term cold storage should be exactly that cold storage no one has access to it
there's no potential for a vector attack there's no updated firmware people want analog type shit they
want like completely manual completely in their control i would i would imagine most people have
been in crypto long enough or even nfts that's exactly what you want so rudo i have a question is
there any or anyone in the room is there any possibility of them falling under the possibility
of someone taking action on them like because they promoted something that was doing an x service
and now it's kind of going back on something they stated do you mean like a false advertisement
not necessarily false advertisement but like the fact that the whole product was based around cold
storage and then that now it's kind of getting switched up i just find it a little bit odd and
i was wondering like would there even be like a case for that well the u.s laws state that if if you
are going to do updated firmware mind you i'm not i'm not a lawyer okay i just only know this from
previous business experience that i have you need to have an opt-in opt-out function needs to be
implemented um like legally so i think they kind of cover their basis with that by allowing it to be
opt-in or opt-out um compatible so again i'm not a lawyer so i i couldn't really touch on that but
just based on my experience i know that to be true so one last question too so would there be an
argument for ledger being more decentralized now than than it being like like where is it sitting
at now because it's opening its doors to like a web to community uh people it seems like is it still
gonna like where's it gonna go from here because originally it i just saw this as a web 3
thing only for nfts only for nfts crypto and just keeping your stuff really secure but now that
they're introducing a back not a back door but a way to recover these passwords like what is it now
exactly that's it that's a good question i'm gonna allow someone else uh who has their hand up to
give give a crack at that actually if they want to um i want to go ahead and pass it over to someone
we haven't spoken to yet um happy tuesday cheddar love to hear your thoughts on this
yo happy tuesday um i can't give a crack at what dad was talking about because i guess my mind was
just wondering what my point is but it's kind of like a double-edged sword what we kind of ask for
in this space quite frankly we want security we want safety but we also want decentralization right
and i've noticed since the time that i've been here that it's always been that way since day one
so the problem here is you know i'm all for decentralization and me owning my
like my crypto and my nfts that being said i think if it starts to make even the option of like
opting in it starts to become a desensitized thing to us right it happens now then how they
mentioned there'll be other people wanting to participate in that then we'll start to think
that that's normal then it'll start to leave the back door open for other bigger companies to be
like well you know what the space doesn't seem like it's bothered by it let's just sign this over
and then pretty soon we won't even have a company that will actually give us full product like
ownership to our keys so i just think it's just a wrong move to in the direction and i think we
should kind of slow it down and just really realize what it is that we want if we want safety i think
the idea that vegan said having a separate product for that would be cool also um it it holds the
integrity of you know what we believe in and stuff and just in general what ledger has proven
you can't be putting like out such quality stuff and then out of nowhere it just starts shitting on
us you know what i mean it kind of just falls in the sense of like they're doing it for their
personal motive not necessarily for the space and that's just my opinion i think we really need to put
our foot down and not even allow a firmware update i think we should be like yo no one asked for that
and if this is your guys plan on trying to onboard other people you know then i think you guys should
still think about it because those people aren't joining the space anytime soon nor is there an
incentive for them to join the space anytime soon so i just feel like it gives them more time to just
go back to the the drawing board that's all thank you thank you really interesting cheddar i appreciate
your take brother um let's go pass it on to someone else too someone we haven't spoken to quite yet
also let's pass it over to english english happy tuesday brother how you doing man happy tuesday
my friend how's it going doing well brother doing well yeah yeah man so i mean i think first i'm
probably very unqualified to to to speak on this because i i don't know that much but like in the
sense that i've been following it the whole day and i've i've heard other people's takes and you know
i listen to the ledger you know um spaces zk kind of you know talk on it and this is my understanding
first of all it's like i think it's people are making way bigger of deals than it really is this
is this is how i see it for the most part most people in this space that i know are not actually
even using like the cold stores the way that you know having one cold store that doesn't interact
with anything at all having another one that is you know interacts there then you know a medium you
know wallet then a hot wallet so like everybody's just up in arms because like ledgers like our apple
and they want to get into like this philosophical thing but like and even if it's the case that you
do use it properly and you do have like this deep cold storage that never interacts with anything
the actual attack vector would be that somebody goes to your computer and does the firmware update where
they where they opt in or they get like remote access to your computer or some kind of thing and
they actually put like a firmware update to it like if you opt out of the firmware update like you're not
involved in any of that stuff for your where your keys are being sent that's my understanding
the attack vector comes that it that somebody could potentially gain access to your ledger somehow
and and upgrade it you know without your consent you know whether that's some kind of hack or some
kind of remote access or whatever the case may be so it's like if you're like this old school
btc person where like you make a new wallet for every single new transaction you don't broadcast like
these old school btc people they don't ever share their address they don't share how much stuff that
they have what they do like like look at these people like these nft mfers dude they put like
their their name and their ens domain as their twitter handle everybody can see exactly what they have
it's just ridiculous dude so and these are the same people dude these are the same people
that are up in arms about ledgers not doing the right thing dude like if you're like the old school
philosophy of like not your keys not your coins you do everything the right way if you're like of
that ilk and you're cut from that cloth i could understand why you would want like a treasure because
it just goes against your fundamental things but all these people that came in 2021 and are buying nfts
and bought their ledger last year dude like come on dude you're ridiculous dude that's that's my take
no i think it's a i think those are incredibly fair points man i there's i can't even express how
many people i personally know in crypto and nfts that literally do not have some form of cold
cold wallet or cold storage so they're just out here running the streets raw dog in their crypto and
nfts and you know they're these are the people who are up in arms um on the timeline like i can't
believe this this goes against the mission of web 3 and the ethos of maintaining ownership and this
and that and it's like you i can assure you they don't even have their the 50 of bitcoin that they
have in their portfolio inside of a inside of a ledger can almost guarantee it 100 but no i i try
to be neutral but i guess i guess you know cats out of the bottle anyway let's go over to some more
people um i want to hear from zimmy go ahead zimmy your chance to shine and then shit i actually just
totally skipped over click and jake but i promise you want to get right over you guys go ahead no i'm
just kidding um no i wanted to play a quick devil's advocate to uh what's that he riveted just
just keep going yeah this is what happens i try to be like nice and respectful i get off track i just
gotta be me um but i wanted to give miss teen like a little devil's advocate although i do agree with
the like foundation and birth of crypto and like that being why the reason a lot of us are here and
we should be pushing that type of agenda to independence um while i think that's what we're
passionate about like and there'll be plenty of more people who come on board that train i think we
need to take a step back and look at the big picture of where like cryptocurrency and blockchain will go
as an industry across the board and just recognize like a lot of people won't be using this technology
for those specific reasons and like some people may be just using it for gaming assets or event
tickets where they come and go so it's like hey if we want to prepare for the future where yes like
this piece that we're all passionate about will always be here and hopefully we continue to push that
there will be a way more broader audience who just does not care um and in order to you know be a
business like you're going to have to figure out ways to offer a product and solution uh to the
masses um and again like just devil's advocate uh there because i do agree with like a lot of what
you're saying as well um i just had a few questions obviously no one has the answer to this but to throw
out there and some concerns that i have it sounds like miss teen wants to to respond so is it maybe you
want to respond quickly and then i'll just like rattle off some of my concerns is that cool
oh yeah go first go first go first okay yeah yeah so like the three pieces besides ledger
who knows the who the companies are uh that owns them who are these trusted partners how many
partners do they have from a dedicated list what data is ultimately truly shared with each partner
um obviously ledger has had data leaks in the past like what about those other companies can they
become uh prime targets once people know who they are or there's like super encrypted process where
you don't know um you know if there's a data breach you know what does that mean then uh and how does
this affect someone who can pull off like web 2 identity fraud uh we obviously know that people
lose their social security number and people gain access to uh you know bank accounts like why would
this process uh be any different so those are some of the concerns that uh i thought of like just
during this space as we talk about it so actually at least one of those companies is coin cover uh which
is a wales like one like basically uh britain based based company uh we also have escrow tech
and then also just ledger themselves so it's actually not even uh a third like that one's not a third
party it's just ledger so it's ledger um crypto sorry ledger coin cover and escrow tech are the three
oof i would have wanted to see like 20 where it's like hey you don't know this combination but now
anyone now knows the three combination and like they can start forming some sort of intricate
attack and like the fact that you can breach we know how people with like board apes get social
engineered for three months uh before losing something like now you have these web 2 companies
where people know who works where uh and they could social engineer for three years um before going after
like a data breach i don't know that's a little scary to know that the list is only three
yeah it's great great takes emmy i appreciate you coming up here man let's get to some more hands i want
to hear i want to hear everyone's uh thought process behind their opinion here uh miss teen i know you
had probably a rebuttal for it so go right ahead then i want to pass the mic over to click right
afterwards i agree with some of what zimmy was saying i i just think that you know we're in a time
where really nothing is certain and you have bank closures happening everywhere and i think what
the self-custody issue is going to become an everybody issue where where people right now are taking
their money out of the banks if you're looking at the bank stocks they're really not doing well
most are uh down over 90 percent first republic went to zero and had to get acquired so you know
there's really no certainty within the banks people are taking their money out of the banks they ask
themselves okay i go to the bank i take my money out and where do i put my money under my mattress
like where do you store your funds that's safe that's in a cold storage device now i agree with what
rudo and others were saying before that you know maybe you could have an external uh device that a
separate one from these ledgers that give you the accessibility for those newbies that maybe don't
care but i do think everybody's gonna have to care at some point because maybe all these banks like you
know won't be there for you tomorrow um so i do think that's something that people have to think
about and i think everybody's gonna care at some point great take misteen um because i think you're
you're looking more so you're trying to have a bit of foresight here um i think you're looking into the
future uh on where a lot of this stuff may potentially go and i think the best scenario
guys is you always it's better to be safe than sorry at the end of the day right no one in a
million years could have thought um and some people did but no one would have thought that ftx for
example would have completely burned and crashed literally overnight and it all happened so quickly
a lot of people did know there are some people who were in the know who like saw the ponsonomics
on what was going on there but there are a lot of people who bought into the idea that this was a safe
and secure platform where you can store some of your crypto on um and that just wasn't the case
again misteen crypto is talking about banks right like actual banks and uh we've seen a ton of these
especially just this year alone we've seen some go under so yeah great excellent points misteen um
okay click i know you had your hand up brother and i apologize thank you so much for being patient
you don't have your hand up now but i don't know if you have anything to add to this i guess it fell down
um uh i just wanted to touch on real quick like someone asked you know is this is this like an
argument to like decentralize ledger and i just want to remind everyone that like ledger is like a
private entity like there are they are a business you cannot just like arbitrarily decide to decentralize
someone's business i mean you can in the sense that you don't rely on them as much and you find
alternatives and uh which would not be a bad idea in general anyway so don't put all your eggs into
one basket and remember that even though maybe before this we never had a reason to like
be wary of be extra wary of like ledger as opposed to like anything else out there but like
this is a good argument to this is a good argument to decentralize but like not so much on ledger
itself but more like learn what else is out there like someone mentioned trezor uh follow better like
uh seed phrase best practices and stuff like that like be actually diligent don't screenshot your phone
when you're making a new wallet address and don't forget to like don't just leave that picture in your
phone in your camera roll like come on guys that's probably just me who does that but uh just kidding
i've never done that um but for real yeah personally i take pen and parchment um and i write it down
and then i store it in a little glass bottle um and then i put that in my in my closet so um yeah let's
go and i appreciate that click let's go pass it over to um to jen jen appreciate your patience you've had
your hand up for quite some time now go ahead yeah of course two things one i did just pin a thread it
is how to set up a ledger but it has a lot of like general security information um also like while we're
on the topic of security uh download wallet guard like really easy way um to see what you're doing
but anyway i think like there's a lot going on here right now right and i know someone was saying like
this is just the beginning um i of like you know these companies deciding we don't care and just
pushing things on us i kind of see this as the opposite like one this is at least informed consent
and if you look at a lot of you know other technology and even like snapchats my ai rollout
like they didn't ask people right and people were really mad where i know that for a lot of the
beginning of my time on the internet it was like yeah facebook gets access to everything let me just
log in with that everywhere and that's really problematic and we know that now um so i think
what this is showing is that like companies really can't do that and so i do think the opt-in future
while it maybe doesn't feel like we have as much choice as we want like i do think that's on the
right direction um and i i think like the reaction today only kind of reinforces that for other
companies um i also think like you know when we come up to like what are these three companies and
also the fact that you have to use your passport your passport to opt into this system and like
that's something that's scary to me especially because crypto regulation is like up in the air
depending on where you live like the um you know like crypto might not always be legal wherever you
are and so is the is your id going to be connected to your wallet right like probably to comply with
regulations it is and i think that's like a different issue but something that everyone should
think about if it makes sense for them um because yeah i don't know losing access to your passport
because of crypto funds uh or crypto funds because of where your passport is from both of them sound
like pretty shitty things yeah so i want to give for those who come up and speak next when you give
your take i would love for you at the end to give another option that you think might be as good or
better or you know another possible option so like if yeah so jen what if you weren't going to use ledger
what would you recommend for your from your own personal experience what would you recommend using
i use a mix of a lot of different things i have it took me a really long time right and like
i've never fully trusted ledger i think someone just made a great point like they're a company how can
i trust this hardware but everyone does and you have to have trust in something at some point right
like i don't trust the bank but i don't have a better option i don't trust like the government but
like i still live in a society right like there's all these things so mitigate your risk right i have
like a grid plus i have a treasure i have you know um there's other options for hardware out there
there's you know you could make a computer that like never goes online um i think having your stuff
split across multiple options is really the only way to safeguard your stuff um and also hope that
this industry gets big enough where like we have levels of protection so yeah i'm not throwing out my
ledgers yet um i also don't use any that are the x's because the bluetooth thing sketches me out but um
i yeah just mitigate your risk and separate your assets yeah i think that's i think those are those
are you know fair that's fair advice personally i i and like if you guys are curious what my take is
you're probably not uh but i wouldn't i still personally wouldn't mind using a ledger like it's
not that to me it's not that big of a deal am i gonna put 100 of my funds on a ledger probably not
and i i wouldn't recommend anyone put like 100 of your crypto or entities or anything into one
single wallet regardless so at the end of the day look this takes some personal accountability right
you are if you are in fact a maxi of you know your your wallet your tokens your coins then take
some personal responsibility and and figure out what's going to be best for you because it's not
always going to be best also please no one come up here and tell us like your exact way that you keep
everything like just remember that information is always an attack vector um for social engineering
so speak in hypotheticals but like don't tell us where all your keys are hidden and your exact process
yeah or better yet just memorize your seed phrase um i think what i'm going to do is i'll tweet out my
my seed phrase i mean it's pretty easy to remember but i just want to give you guys an example what
like a good one looks like so anyways i'll tweet that up and at the top here in a second
go ahead eddie
what a good one looks like
you can see it's got 24 words and each of the words is pristine so yo my my seed phrase has rare
traits dude so my seed phrase has rare traits absolute one-on-ones in there so that's all i'll say
um but yeah let's get to some more hands guys um and mind you again i will reiterate if you are
going to come up i would love to hear your take but give uh if you're against it give a better option
so all right begin i want to go and give a shout out to you go ahead brother yeah so i do think there
are a couple more things to like just trusting ledger right now because ledger actually doesn't
have the best reputation in my mind if we've seen what happened you know they raised an ungodly amount
of money right almost 400 million dollars and they sold us ledgers we're all excited and then what
happens oh we have a marketplace now a marketplace oh yeah we're curating nft collections and all those
failed that doesn't seem like their core competency then they keep doing all these collabs and it's
buy another ledger buy another ledger buy another ledger no one wants to buy a million ledgers then
they say hey here's some jewelry wear your ledger around your neck which is absolutely counterintuitive
the opposite just stupid and so then it's like it's like they're trying to find a way to get people
to spend more money with them right we're not going to keep buying more ledgers it seems so now with
this new system it's insured up to 50 000 it's for one wallet we all don't recommend having one wallet
so if you want to have a another uh ledger recovery account you got to pay another 10 a month their
vcs are happy they got a great new way to get renewable revenue every single month versus buying
one ledger putting everything on there for life so i'm not saying it's the only reason they did it i
do think it could help some onboard some masses but it's obvious they're trying to find out ways to
get more money out of customers and a renewable source of revenue sounds awesome so uh with that i'm
going to step down so somebody can step up so thank you guys and keep listening yeah i agree i mean
look they're at they are a business they are trying to explore new different streams of revenue
within their business and a subscription-based model is one of the best business models you can
you can make especially if you have returning um something especially when it comes to security
you obviously want to renew that every single month or annually whatever it is so if i'm a business
that sounds like a great business model to me uh now how your consumers or your your end user feels
about that obviously they're kind of seeing what that looks like today so um with that said let's
pass it over to some more hands that i appreciate you a ton begin um i want to go to someone we
haven't spoken to quite yet and then we're going to touch on the rest of these hands um guys quick
reset if you guys are enjoying this space me and eddie are the hosts of the really good web 3 show
we do these spaces every monday through thursday starting at 8 p.m eastern to late depending on how well
the conversation is going so and we are part of the tda brand um hosted by expresso in chief so we
appreciate you guys coming in tuning in and showing support uh let's pass it over some more hands
i want to go over to alexandre lores um haven't heard from you yet brother how you doing happy to
hey ruto what's up man um welcome to good good to meet you
eddie you're absolutely rugging really hard but what he's saying is that thanks for coming up man
um we've never we've never had conversations with you and we appreciate you tuning well i'm glad
i'm here uh i've talked to jonah a lot and missing cryptos up here um yeah i've been like in my fiat
world uh for for six months so have been kind of forced to uh you know deal with budget issues but um
yeah bitcoin my ledger and uh my seed phrase is just kidding um yeah no i uh i saw it trending so
i was like what's going on uh i guess that anyway i'm just here to listen and say hi and i guess
there was a back door set up or something uh i actually had the thought i didn't realize you
mentioned there's an insurance thing um i actually saw that and i was like you know this is at the
point of every industry uh that was new in the beginning where the insurance people are you know
in the back laughing going this is my chance and there's a meme of this guy behind a tree he's kind
of rubbing his hands together you see it a lot right like he's checking out some chick but you
know it's turned into like you know you know somebody buying a dip or looking at their competitors
fail or something so i had the thought of that insurance guy sitting in the back rubbing his hands
together oh this is great but anyway look uh if nothing else web3 is entertaining as long as you're
not the one getting rugged and if you get rugged too many times you just start laughing at yourself
so i just came here to hang with you guys meet you and um i'll follow you back ruto and everyone
else jen thank you uh i've been in bitcoin and crypto since 2017 been writing about it in my blog
and now i kind of just do it kind of as a hobby and and i work a lot as well so uh i haven't had a
chance to um i also had a daughter so i'm happy about that so i haven't had a chance to really hang
in space in a while so i'm just here to listen and support and uh say hi to everyone
nice to meet you dude hold on am i not rugging anymore please tell me no you sound you sound
great man bless all right yeah dude nice to meet you and you're always welcome around
yeah and congratulations on your daughter man that's that's so much yeah i'm working hard
two and a half jobs but i'm happy and uh happy to hang with you guys for my uh 30 minutes of uh
hanging time hey we appreciate it man and if you guys um i i love showing you people support man so
if you guys can go check out his his uh go check out his twitter account um go look at some of
the documentation he's written out um all the things that he's a part of alexandre we appreciate
you a ton brother um and yeah stay tuned you don't have to drop down if you don't want to if you have
another point you want to add later on feel free to raise your hand we'll get to you if you want to
if you want to get caught up to what's kind of going on here if you look at the top scroll to the fifth
slide um and we have a member of the ledger team who wrote a pretty big thread on everything they've
just implemented so charles just uh charles is the member so charles gimme i told him i'm gonna totally
butcher this but let's try guime um so i don't know guime but that's the uh that's the ledger team
member you'd want to check out also real quick as we're about to toss through the more hands i'm just
shocked to see golden with uh lacking a golden pudgy what the hell golden
oh whoa whoa whoa golden are you are you he's i'm upset i'm i knew he was a m'lady he's i'm upset
right now damn we lost we lost another fallen soldier man you haven't lost anyone look at my
what's going on what's on your mind look look at my banner profile i still have a golden king
one um am i the only one that can't hear him i got a bigger yeah hold on one second golden one
second golden uh because we're having issues eddie go ahead and you might have to i don't know if you
have to drop down but yeah um okay yeah he's dropping out coming back up sorry about that go ahead golden
are we all just rugging today or like dude i don't know can can no one hear me i didn't hear
no but it's weird because like it's always like i've noticed i've been here for like three times
and like it's like what's up i'm back i'm back i'm killing let's keep rolling all right yeah yeah golden
you're you're back up brother i think we're all fixed up now so uh run at it happy tuesday man go
for it hey uh did you guys just have a person named miss teen crypto speak on the stage we did yeah we
did that was kind of weird no she's great man uh she she puts out a ton of super um education like
education content in regards to crypto she's been in crypto and making content on crypto since like 2017
so she's been here much longer than probably 99 of people who are even listening in the space so
she should probably change her name though on twitter because it's kind of weird
no well she's she's 20 now so she kind of has to change it yeah so she could be like early early
20s miss miss early 20s crypto miss college debt crypto i'm um helping her plan her 21st birthday
party so we will also make sure there's an appropriate rebrand yeah i was just i was just
i was like a what's wrong with teenagers double don't you dare start right now what are we on
about anyway yeah let's let's get back to the topic go ahead golden oh i don't have anything on the
topic i just saw that person speaking and thought it was weird that's all oh my god he switches he
switches his pfp to a m'lady and all of a sudden he doesn't have any more good takes golden i'm upset
i'm upset with you golden all right just initiation i'm honestly impressed that you
are like yo it's weird that we're talking to teens i i see that as growth for this space
and i appreciate it yeah i don't think i don't think golden has a problem with it i think he was
just making a subjective comment about it but okay let's uh let's go over some more hands guys let's
let's keep this rolling i want to be i want to remain on topic again for those who are just tuning in
we're talking about whether or not you agree with what ledger is implementing and if you don't
what are other options that you may deem more fit than utilizing a ledger so with that without further
ado let's go over to flame happy tuesday flame how you doing brother i'm doing great um first of all
ledger i barely even know her you're welcome um i think you know security is incredibly important
however you do it i don't have any particular issue with ledger um i just don't like the
buttoning through the menus and stuff um not that treasure's that much better but i think um good
things can be said about both but i do think like whatever the issue is with this whole c phrase thing
you know write it down on a piece of paper store it in a couple different places if you can't memorize
it and uh just be really careful you know like the the second most secure thing i think you can do
is put it in a password protector type software but even then you're running the risk don't do that
yeah you're running a risk like the only truly safe way to do it is to store it in an analog way
and i don't know enough about the new ledger implementation other than all the complaining i've
seen so you know that's one thing and then i do have something that's a little off topic but it's
been it's been making me wonder golden i love you and i don't have anything against my ladies i don't
want to bring the curse upon myself either but i i feel like they're the inverse pepe right like pepe
was created by matt fury and it was co-opted by the alt-right and then it was reclaimed by crypto
twitter right and obviously the alt-right still tries to use it for terrible things whereas mladies
purportedly created by douchebags and then reclaimed taken over by good people right but also still
utilized by douchebags so i think it's like maybe one of the most american pfps we have right because
it's very it's it's much like america america full of great people full of great ideas full of great
things also full of you know some really bad people so i think mladies can be both just food for thought
red wine blue baby these colors don't run yeah um i i see your point uh i definitely see your point
look there's bad actors in every single community whether it's it's board apes whether it's uh whether
it's moonbirds whether it's crypto or utes i'm not dissing mladies by the way just yeah you know i've had
i've had incredible experiences with a lot of different mladies so personally i'm neither here nor there
plus i'm only saying that to you know keep the ops off of me because i don't mess around with the
mladie curse that shit's real and i'm doxed so um i'm not trying to catch any strays with that
but anyways um i appreciate it flame let's go over to some more hands we have one more
the best for last obviously double my brother in christ how you doing man happy tuesday
yo rudo i'm good eddie how you doing tda everyone here what's up what's up what's up what's up um
yeah i just want to add to the conversation i'm probably like repeating what you guys already said
but like um going off what jen said like how do we even trust bitcoin at this point right if we don't
trust ledger because they're a company and they have like hardware and they can just change the
software without us knowing um it's almost the same with bitcoin right you have like two or three
companies that run the that create the mining hardware how do we know they're not putting back
doors in the mining hardware and then we have like and you know what double they can one day wake up and
just put jpegs on the blockchain like yeah exactly what would happen if they did that right so exactly so
like back in 2000 you know 2008 2009 when we read the white paper uh when michael saylor was telling
us to mortgage our homes that it's pure energy it will never change for like you could leave you
could give it to your kids like generations down the line it will be exactly the same just pure energy
now we have shit pegs being burned on every satoshi we have 22.1 quadrillion shit pegs about to be
on all of our satoshis and we're not going to be able to send a single transaction so
our imagine what what's going to look like in like a generation from now when we're passing that down
and our kids are like what is this that you gave me you know so yeah how do we how do we trust anyone
right at some point you have to trust someone it's it's almost ridiculous to think that it's going to
be completely trustless in that manner right but well for ledger i think and i think jen brought this up
before um it's a lot it's like a comms thing right communications thing i think they just need to
understand who their customer is right you can't just say all of a sudden yeah we're just going to
update the firmware i'm always nervous of those firmware updates on my on my device i don't know
about you guys but like i get them i'm like it says make sure you have your phrase and i'm like i don't
even want to do it i do it i think everything's going to be gone when it's done i'm like stop
updating the firmware dude it works like i don't know what you're trying to do
um so yeah that's scary but who but you know you just kind of keep um you know your security
um double double if you don't if you let's say you don't use ledger then what's your in your
opinion what would be a better option for you personally so what i what i liked at the beginning
were these the idea of these like hard wallets that were almost like printable so you would have
to take your um computer offline right you would create your seed phrase i forget what they call them
but they were like you print them out on paper and i used to like that i used to print them out
like bitcoin wallets i used to print them and act like there were dollars and give and give people
like these little dollars that had bitcoin on it and i'd be like there's bitcoin on this there's
bitcoin it was like a piece of paper so it's like a fake like dollar bill my ether was cool
was it the my ether that was no that was ethereum but yeah that's that was a little bit different
that was almost like metamask but these were like paper bitcoin wallets
for those who don't know in the early days of bitcoin before exchanges and all this stuff
back in the early days there was basically only one place at a time if you were like in canada
for example there was only one company where you could even buy or sell bitcoin um so in the old
days you would have to have an offline hard drive where you would um interact with the blockchain
and especially if you were a miner then you would have your rigs basically connected up to
a separate hard drive that would be accumulating the bitcoin for you um there wasn't like an
exchange or anything like that where you could keep your an exchange or like a sort of quote unquote
wallet cold wallet that you can keep and store your your bitcoin like in the old days so yeah i mean i
think what you're saying is kind of like essentially like analog right yeah like an analog yeah yeah you
have to disconnect your computer i guess you have to be running a note i forget how you do it but
you we're essentially trusting ledger to give us these devices from the factory right how do we
know just like the pokemon thing how do we know like some bad actors not sitting on the line on the on
the line and it happens all the time in like best buy right people are getting you know they buy the
ledger out of best buy they they rig it and put it back and return it and people put it back on the
counter and then you get it you get you get caught that way so there's a lot of ways to get
you know and if we're dealing with money people are going to come after it so you just got to be
really diligent what you're doing here um i heard someone say something today was pretty
interesting they were like you should laminate your seed phrase like not keep it on a piece of
paper i thought that was pretty funny that's a pretty good idea actually yeah i like i actually
kind of do like that so no we appreciate you double um all right let's go over some more i want to go
and touch on some let's i want to go to english because he he's had his hand up for quite some time
and i want to wait wait wait ruto one last thing i have to make sure don't bring your seed phrase to
like staples or something to get it laminated by someone else oh my god get the kick get home
the take-home kit i just have to make sure people don't do that no we're not still in business that's
crazy you can get these um metal cards from amazon and they like come with a pen so you can write it
so it's like you know element proof um those are hard i can i never i bought them and i never did it
because it was annoying well that's like uh that's like uh that's like arculus so like arculus is
is also another um cold wallet and it's basically just like a metal card um and you can you know put
i feel i feel like you need a hammer and a chisel or something you like chisel no if you get a good one
it's like a sharpen up pen where you just write like normal guys it's not we've
okay let's let's go over some more hands um english you you've had your hand up for literally
ever now and then i want to go over some hands that we haven't spoken to quite yet so english go
ahead brother yeah dude double dude you know without putting any value judgment on your takes
dude you have some of the most entertaining uh stuff so i'll just say that dude um always like
to hear your opinion but i guess it does dovetail a little bit into what i was gonna say like yeah
those old school hard wallets like they're that's great and everything but you lose it right like
you use like the the usb drive that the guy is trying to like dig up in like the uk like in this
you know um facility that he lost and he's trying to get like this you know landfill to like excavate
it there's there's problems with everything and i think the scope of this is that if you don't like
the idea of ledger just buy a treasure dude or buy something else like it's not really like a big
thing like what's the solution the solution is just to not use that product i think the bigger
thing that we're kind of over overlooking is that the seed phrase the 24 12 word whatever is a
uniquely bad system the only reason it's actually a good system is because it completes like something
that's beyond the scope of my understanding a 256 bit thing i'm sure there's somebody here that knows
it and so mathematically it makes sense and all that perfect but it's actually a really bad system
that people have lost the keys to their to the to their you know to their wallet and they've lost
their wealth and this has been a you know a big probably a little bit less problem i remember
reading about it like in 2015 16 17 and over time you know people have been a little bit better but
you have to be really trained really well versed and live this every day of your life like we're like
nft degens and like the people that are speaking here we're all talking to each other so we all kind
of do this due diligence there's tons and tons of people dude that are never gonna do all of that so
ledgers is a first step yeah maybe it's it's their vcs and all this stuff and they're looking
for subscription but they actually are addressing a problem and the big problem is is that it's a
uniquely bad system dude and maybe later on there's some some kind of way that at the end of the day
there's some you know seed phrase that's never really interacted with and there's some biometrics
type stuff the same way that you use like on your apple phone or whatever the case may be
but i don't think we're going to be talking about this in five ten years i don't think that the majority
like forget about the zoomers whatever next generation they're going to laugh at us about
using these keys and using the 24 things and having to remember them and put them on a plate
and all that other stuff i think that's the big thing that nobody's really talking about because
if you're just talking about is this good is this bad just use a different product that's really not
the main story the main story of all this is that there's an actual problem and ledger's trying to
address it maybe they've rolled it out in a bad way maybe they their their solution is not a good
solution but it with with no there's no doubt in my mind that having this this case is not an ideal
situation except for in a in a philosophical kind of way where it's like the most secure way but there
has to be something that's 99.9 as secure or whatever the you know the the metric might be
and is very user-friendly and i think that's what we're going to see in the future yeah i mean let's let's
be let's be honest here this is all you see on the timeline right now because i guess people just
can't talk about anything else but in like two weeks people are even going to completely forget
about this as well and they're probably literally going to still put crypto on their ledger they're
listening we've been through this we have all been through this okay this is what's on the timeline
right now in two weeks no one's going to be speaking up a word about this and everyone's just
going to go about living their lives so which is actually by the way why foobar if you guys were
paying attention uh foobar who's kind of a famous he's a famous internet dev celebrity in this niche
ecosystem uh he's actually very good but he was very very much against this and was practically
parading that like you should not use a ledger and you should you should completely evacuate the
ledger ecosystem um and udi one of our good friends he uh he was like i think you're i think
you're spreading fud here for no reason and making people panic move and like i've seen much more
damage come out of panic moves than than you know from ledger themselves or whatever and the idea
for foobar and the reason why he was doing so was hey like while the iron is hot and while people
actually care about this i have to share the message otherwise if i try and tell people in
like two three weeks they're gonna be like shut up you idiot uh or like just you're just annoying at
this point like and people just move on in their attention whereas today if he talks about it today
and shares thoughts today people are much more apt to actually heed what he has to say
so it's just an interesting conversation point and it's like an interesting reason why
you know especially on the day that certain things happen you're gonna hear the loudest takes and the
hottest takes because it's the one day that people are most apt to hear it yeah agreed and the the memes
are hilarious right now i pinned one up at the top liam um it's hilarious um all right there's a ton
of hands so i want to go over and let's i want to hit on chulo first uh chulo it's been a minute
my brother how you doing happy tuesday and i want to go over to eric and then uh go over to jen um and
then vgf um oh shit actually i saw sunshine down there listen there's a lot of hands let's just start
with chulo first go ahead chulo yo first of all like great space uh great conversation right
duh um that being said uh i think i i don't know who was talking last i think it was english uh he brought
up some great points uh truly the idea here that i'm i'm kind of getting out of all of this is that
like you know it's like hey vote vote with your dollars right i love saying that uh so you know
if you don't trust ledger and stuff like that i mean take your money out of it while while like you
know while it matters to you right if you care about those certain things right i think a lot of
people are just panicking because you know it's the first day and i think again eddie brought up a
great point it's like you know the iron's hot right now sorry we're gonna talk about it
um but you know think about it and really sit on your idea and really realize or take in all the
pros and cons of why ledger is actually helpful and why it's not um and that being said like you
know i don't have an alternate solution solution but i don't use ledger personally uh i don't i don't
own any type of wall like hardware wallets or anything like that um for like many reasons i kind
of like free ball it but in a different way i'm not going to explain how i do it but you know like
uh i'm very caveman with the with the with the tech you know um but it works you know i mean
like i don't want to jinx myself or anybody or whoever does it the way we do it right but like
there's community wait wait wait jen said not to tell us how you do it too of course of course i'm
not i'm not but i'm just saying like yo there's community of people out there who can tell you how
to protect yourself um with these kind of things and you just got to find the right people and talk
about it and you know you'll you'll be on your way um that that being said though like um great
conversation and like yeah strike strike the iron while it's hot guys talk about all those
fucking hot takes get people off of ledger and i think if they realize that it is a big mistake
they'll change it right because like you know dollar money talks right like all these takes we have
like can only go so far so money talks get your money out of there if you really want them to
make a difference that's all i gotta say we appreciate it as always true low absolute legend
um shout out to the fiends um okay let's go over to eric i want to go to eric uh right
afterwards so eric welcome to the stage brother happy tuesday how you doing yeah man happy happy
taco tuesday hopefully you guys got some tacos i'm about to like walk in and grab tacos and a beer
and send like in this like promenade area here in vegas it's nice somebody who is it that just said
that uh it's kind of like free balling that's not free balling bro that's raw dogging that's yeah
that's what i called it like like like that's that's raw dog and that's that's like anything goes
you're willing to risk it for the biscuit you know every time so you know kudos to you for having
bigger balls than me uh as far as that but uh yeah i think this is a classic bungalow where the dev
responds before pr is like hey you could you know like when this post got like sent out this morning
as much as everyone's like oh go read the faqs go do this go do that all anyone saw was hey we're
gonna splice up your seed phrase into three different things and send it to a third party
that's all anyone got from it right and it's just like well yeah that kind of happens but
all the good shit got lost in context as everyone was like up in arms about this technology that
really wasn't new but literally it's just a classic case of like hey it doesn't matter what you say it
matters like how you say it right because this same news done is like a space on a spaces where
there's no chance for people to like fuck it up and digest it differently and then you got a hundred
threads and there's so much shit going around so i just think like ledger didn't do anything wrong
except not having a person who's good at communications communicate this they're like ah fuck it just let the
dev answer the question and then this is what happens when you let devs answer questions
and dude they even had problems on their space where they said multiple times hey they're like there's
there are no new attack vectors there are no new attack vectors there are no new attack vectors
zk comes on he's like is this not introducing a new attack vector and one of the devs on the space was
like well yeah technically there's a new attack vector here and it was like are you joking
like you you've said multiple times throughout the space that there were no new attack vectors
only for zk to come push you just you know a tiny bit further and then you admit yeah there's a new
attack vector just kind of wild to me hey can i chime in real quick yeah go ahead go ahead brother
go ahead and then we'll go to some more hands go ahead all right thank you so i've had my hand up for a
while and i love this conversation um so i don't have a ledger um i don't have a treasure neither
um because they have a centralized bridge let alone now we just learned that your seed phrase is
catching different places too so but anyway the bridge alone on ramping and on ramping is um
it's centralized but um but i tweeted something a couple i should actually post it to the top it's
um which bridge are you referring to i'm talking about the transaction from bringing it like from
ethereum to the ledger and then off that that's both that's both ethereum to be clear like that it's
no no no the bridge is centralized though the bridge i don't know which bridge you're referring
to i'll be honest with you like i have no idea what you're referring to the when you send it from
ethereum you have to use a centralized bridge by ledger to get it into ledger's um hardware wallet
you do not you're talking about ledger live like the software that you have to use
i'm just saying when you bring something from ledger to your hardware wallet they need to
it still exists on the ethereum blockchain it's a weak point just to be yeah that's not true but
ledger is not decentralized it's a company that's true yes that's true but let like ledger makes
like ledger allows you to interact with the ethereum blockchain and um yeah like that's
what you said to be clear is not true it's not like a slave yeah i just hold on hold on you don't
really understand let me finish real quick um that's that's besides the point because it's a very
small minute interaction that's not decentralized is what i'm referring to but um anyway so bitfi
blockchain was a blockchain created in like 2013 and it's a cold storage blockchain so it's called
bitfi bitfi b-i-t-f-i-i and um i encourage people to look into that because there is no third party
there is no nothing um it's just a cold storage blockchain not a wallet but it is a cold storage
blockchain and i believe it's one of the only ones that i've ever seen i'll be honest with you
i have no idea what that means like what what is a cold storage blockchain that's a very good
question you should look it up um walmart sells this device i bought it in 2021 it's called the
bitfi um if i can i'm gonna post that up up there right now um it's just a small tweet with pictures
of it and it shows a description of it i will i will check it out out of curiosity but i'm not i'm
not 100 sold on it to be real uh but i'll check it out of curiosity we appreciate your time brother
um okay let's go over to some more hands um eddie can do the honors i'd rather you get flooded um
and people slide into dms with vgf is dying again yeah i know but i'm gonna hold them up just a tiny
bit longer i'm gonna go to maestro first uh socket vgf no i'm kidding we're maestro what's up
hey man guys uh great space oh my god yeah twitter today it exploded i think with the ledger stuff
um you know i think you guys were talking about this earlier but you know yeah ledger's a for-profit
company they have the the you know the secure element in the actual piece of hardware um and you
know what we're talking about they've lost trust they had a pr nightmare really let's that's that's
what happened today they had a pr nightmare regardless of the software or the firmware update
i actually think they can salvage this even with like the ogs who are very much like you know i'm
gonna i'm gonna actually spin up a bitcoin node it's gonna be offline i'm gonna generate my keys and
in the command line and then i'm gonna put those on this you know titanium seed phrase wallet
and then i'm gonna go and dig a hole in the woods and geocache it right like the way that they can
actually i think re-establish some trust is open sourcing their software and that's something that
i don't think people are actually talking about but i actually i would love to see them do that
because part of this is their software is proprietary so when they're doing these firmware updates and
whatnot um you know we we don't know what or what isn't being patched etc etc and i actually i think
this is an opportunity for an open source cold storage wallet project to actually come in and get
some market share and i'm actually very intrigued i think there's a couple of of people who are
actually talking there's some chatter about that uh coming down the pipeline uh because if you look at
it it's like ledger already had a security breach um even though they're sharding your seed phrase
into three chunks and sending two of the two of the chunks to to third parties we're not talking about
the social hacking component that can happen to this because all you have to do you have to verify
who you are and we already know that that already happens you know social engineering and so the
engineering of social hacks that's very easy to do uh and you know kudos to the dev that got pushed
into saying oops it's a new attack vector uh so you know i think it's a cluster but i do think
it's salvageable or there's going to be somebody that comes in and fills that gap and fills the need
of an open source cold storage solution that's an actual cold storage wallet as opposed to just paper
wallets you know to be fair he did say there's a new vector for whoever opts in but you're right
he still said those words he shouldn't have said he shouldn't have done yeah my my one my one thing
with him saying it's an opt-in um and i have a good friend who's a former microsoft uh dev and she she
wasn't the security person she didn't but she did work on some of this uh security op for um some of
this stuff and essentially even if it's an opt-in right option the fact is is that that that actual
capacity is still baked in via the software at that point and so you know that whether or not
you opt in or not it theoretically and this is again theoretical it could be initiated without
your consent theoretically by some type of hack so you know all that to say if you got big big bags
then like the other person said go use another product or you know put it in a true cold storage
that's never that's air gapped and not even touching the internet right so um but yeah i'm
with you on that it's they have a pr nightmare to fix today you know there's a there's a tool or there's
a piece on bitcoin i or i don't know what it is like there's a physical product uh that is at one
point in time existed for bitcoin i don't know if it still exists or not but basically in order to
actually use it it's kind of wild in order to actually use the wallet you have to physically break
a piece of it so basically like you find out what the address is when you buy it so you can actually
just send as much bitcoin as you want to it uh indefinitely but then if you want to if you want
to actually use the wallet it will not be usable until like it you cannot reveal um the private key
until you literally break a piece of it um and the actual like circuit board of that piece of hardware
software uh is permanently changed and like that's a fascinating fascinating concept um and it's been
used to like literally give people wallets like literally give them wallets and know that the person
who initially gave it to you never had the seed phrase but just like there's interesting innovations
that can be done with hardware wallets and um that's kind of why earlier in the conversation we
were like i wish i wish they just did this idea with like a different product or something like
that which i get they might you know say i get that there's difficulties there but i i think that
would have been preferred by quite a lot of people i'm with you on that i i think people talk about a
mass adoption without considering what that actually looks like a lot of times i think and you know i think
the og people who've been in the space their definition of mass adoption is you custody your own stuff
we don't make it easy for you we don't add you know we don't remove complexity for the lowest
common denominator but in actuality based off of the way that the industry's moving
right i think that that future is going to look a little different from what people want it to look
like um but i i'm with you on that i mean i have a crypto company myself and we have to play to the
grandma test a lot of times right and that's just part of the equation um especially if you want to
onboard other people to it so you know maybe this could be a tool to help pass the grandma test and
then especially whenever people start realizing that hey just because i'm trusting a bank the bank
goes insolvent i lose my money the same thing could theoretically happen if i'm trusting another third
party to make sure that something's secure i think we're going to go through this cyclical thing of
oh crap i should probably custody my own stuff over and over again as new people come on board
i love that take man i'm shooting you a follow
um same same to you appreciate you brother i and and thanks for for tuning in man i know
you're probably not typically always in a bunch of jpeg um twitter spaces but i can assure you that me
and eddie try our best to talk about multiple different topics all within the web3 space not just
nmt stuff so we appreciate your support man and i hope you enjoy the rest of your night and if you
have if you have anything else to add please don't don't hesitate to raise your hand again
um and add to the discussion because i feel like you have you make a ton of really fair points
um okay eddie um go ahead man i think bgf is probably scratched his neck at this point so
uh we can we can go to bgf and then i want to hear from sunshine as well
um i i've seen sunshine around at a couple places so i'm sure he's gonna have a really good take on this
also and then i want to go immediately to jen because jen always comes with the heat so go ahead
bgf what's up y'all it's it's been a very interesting day i i've i've been largely entertained by the
discourse but uh i've i've heard a lot about backdoors uh i've heard a lot about uh people
throwing around jargon that they don't seem to understand um and it seems like most people
are enraged because somebody told them they should be upset um and so it when i when i look at the
the cross section of of why people are upset it seems to be either from the perspective of
this this breaks the secure enclave and now provides so you know like a firmware software
opportunity that could be exploited exposing your seed phrase to some degree um the other
rest of the people that are upset don't seem to have a rational argument against the uh social
verification or like why like something objectively wrong with how they're presenting it other than
like other than the product offering excuse me other than how they presented it and i agree that it
it seems to be more of a pr nightmare than it does like an issue with the product that they're offering
um but i i think largely this is really just a lot of people not understanding how this affects
them causing like undue confusion and concern um but it nothing is perfect like i there is no such
thing as is perfectly secure uh you security is a rabbit hole you can push to the nth degree and
i think we're just at that part of the cycle where people are revisiting uh and and once again having
a microscope put on like how they approach their security um if you don't like ledger's proposed
solution and you don't like their proprietary closed source uh product offering more power to you
there are other options um i i think that they as a private company are well within their means to
to go about doing something something like this and that like it it shouldn't really be a surprise
to anyone that they're providing you know like uh alternative you know alternative means and
alternative solutions to their customers for social account recovery and things like that
uh not everyone is prepared to be self-sovereign and and be uh you know the have self-custody of their
own private keys like that's most people in this space that are active in this space aren't prepared
for that so how do we expect anyone else to then come and engage here i think there has to be some
middle ground solution whether this is it i i i don't know i don't think so personally but i think
it is a step in that direction uh and i i i'm curious where all of the outrage was uh when we were like
discussing eip 4337 account abstraction and social account recovery and all that stuff like this is
very likened at least philosophically to a lot of things that that provides at at least the protocol
level so i i can understand that this like now somehow impacts people people and they're paying
closer attention to it because they're like oh shit i have a ledger and now this affects me instead
of being like this big blue you know cloud in the sky type of thing um but yeah i i think a lot of it
is overblown i think that uh if you don't like the proposed solution that you can go and buy
something else uh money talks whoever said that earlier i i very much agree if you don't support
ledger's uh trajectory and and where it is they are going with the company i i i largely don't like
that they are advertising that people should wear their hardware wallets around their necks and
things like that um but i do think that that's the craziest shit ever to me the fact that that
was a marketing campaign blew my fucking mind i'm not gonna lie insane to me uh and also like that
should scream rob me but most of the world doesn't even know what the fuck it is so it's like crazy
that no one even had issues yet right like i think it puts things in perspective yeah but like
so i'm i'm i'm a fan of their product i'm not a fan of a lot of things that they've done uh but
money talks put your money where your mouth is uh if if you don't like it put your money somewhere else
uh at the end of the day if if we're all like fighting over a hundred dollar piece of hardware
uh and and and we get a little more educated about it i think that that's a healthy perspective to come
from if people are this concerned about their safety and security of their digital assets
uh i think that's that's a good place to be uh and that people would probably be more outraged that like
their hot wallets on metamask on ios by default are backed up to iCloud unless you turn it off
like why why why are we not running rage spaces about that on a like 24 7 schedule telling people to
like turn that off and go uh yeah weird times
wait hold on your your hot hold on your hot wallet when you said are you talking about screenshot no on
on ios by default if you may create a wallet on metamask your private keys are backed up to iCloud
in the little um ledger tutorial that i have pinned like in that thread i do have to watch all
jen's videos yeah yeah please please reshare that again it's yeah but also it depends on what your
settings are so like you might already have paranoid settings um but i do have to go in a sec i want to
like clear up one thing in that if you are using ledger right now like your crypto is on the
blockchain it's not like on a ledger centralized server um obviously this like opting in thing
is different um but i also think with like mass adoption right i mean we're talking about getting
updates how many times have you opened metamask and there's just like a new update or new terms of
service and you have to click accept to interact or else like go make a new wallet right like
i think having and i agree like i don't update my you know i have like question marks for my emojis
sometimes and i'm like oh fuck like i really haven't done any updates in a long time um so i
totally get that part but i think uh someone really hit it like directly on point when saying
like mass adoption is like not what we think it is and there's so many places out there that are doing
like complete custodial wallets people are getting onboarded not understanding the power of the
blockchain not understanding like what it is at all that it's any different that it's any more special
right so i would so much rather like onboard someone who maybe is a little bit nervous but still to using a
hardware wallet and like understanding you know self-sovereignty and being like hey maybe this
like opt-in future is not the best thing for right now um but also you know maybe it is um i think also
like i hate the system right but big companies do have compliance that they have to stick with so i
think that's like something that is vetted right um i know there's you know trezor's open source i love
things that are open source um but there's also a reason why like mac and apple products are not
open source and so i think it's you know you have to like pick what's most important to you but um i mean
i know that like my mom literally has to take her computer into the geek squad to do a software update
right so there's gonna be a large variety of people and i would much rather than be
as close to acting in a decentralized manner as possible yeah for sure and i and i think that's
fair also you know different different strokes for different folks but okay let's uh i want to touch
on uh get to some more people sunshine your patience um should be written in stone for all future
generations to uh admire sunshine i appreciate you coming up man happy tuesday how are you brother
hey hi everyone thank you so much hola from me from mexico well i have i have to add to what jen was
saying because open software you know you can you can build your own and i was going through in my
mind about this because i hated ledger and trust wallet and all that kind of stuff because
well not trust wallet sorry i uh treasure treasure treasure i was meaning about treasure treasure and
those those cool wallets or those uh you know centralized companies doing this and that and
selling these products because you can build your own i mean i just i just said before also too
uh you can you can have your your cold storage you can you can buy a raspberry pi and there is my
ethereum wallet which is me it's a it's it's open it's open source you can get those libraries
and and you can configure the raspberry pi for be your own your own wallet you know you can sign
the transactions the transactions offline load it into into an uh a usb and then plug into that usb
into into any computer that is really connected to the internet and send over the transactions
getting your phones and and having you know your your your funds really safe because i believe that
also crypto is a lot of do it yourself no we are here because we don't we hate the company we hate
the banks we hate the centralized stuff we hate the governments maybe sometimes or the everything
that is controlled by but a group of people about a group of entities and why not you what not
why not also build our own devices you know i think it's safer yeah it could be it could be tricky
because if you are not technical friendly or you don't you don't have any experience into coding and
everything and like that you can feel like this is overwhelming this is going to overwhelm you
but at first glance it's a step you know we need to take these steps because if we really want to have
the the really independence from all these systems and from all these companies and from all of these
we need to build our own and the information is over there but i don't really see like a lot of
people talking about this because you can build your own your own devices even if you let's say okay
if you raspberry pi you want to put another layer on of security into that you can buy a model for
your fingerprint and you can have your fingerprint your fingerprint uh add to the as a security layer
into the into the raspberry pi so it's like another layer of security top of that you can set up
like another encrypt encrypted uh you can re-encrypt your your device the the downside on on this is also
if you lose your device or anything yeah your your phones might be gone but you have to be cautious
i mean there is no perfect solution for anyone for for yeah for anyone to come at because there is no perfect
system every system can be hacked sometimes and that's where that's my that's my point about this
thank you thank you so much for appreciate it sunshine yeah i mean ask any any bitcoin og um in
the early days of from 2010 2012 uh prior to like some of these major exchanges coming out how do you
think they stored their their crypto funds their bitcoin they had their they had their own storage
systems so yeah um and there's a big reason why a lot of them still have their bitcoin to this day
especially like the og og bitcoin people um i appreciate that sunshine i feel like a lot of
people just assume that hey if i don't have a ledger or like a cold wallet that's being sold from
like a privatized company that i can't store my my crypto anywhere you can there are obviously hurdles
and you know a lot of self uh things that you have to teach yourself but it's definitely possible
so if you're like a huge maxi on keeping your funds and your crypto and your in your own possession
then look into ways that you can store this your crypto by yourself on your own um okay we appreciate
you sunshine let's go to some more hands eddie uh who uh who are you feeling man who are you feeling
well let's take a look see uh i want to hear from sam man have not heard yet from sam what's going on
dude how's your night treating it it's going good fam how about you guys dude we're chilling
binging killing good man this is a great convo i think vgf fucking nailed it man um there there
absolutely is no like perfect system um there was never a world where people were going to use jump
drives for mass adoption like it was never going to make it as far as i'm concerned and i think the
innovation is partly on mobile security um which is probably one of the more advanced security um
kind of procedures out there so we effectively have a version of a ledger or could be a version
of our ledger in our hands right now and and different storage mechanisms there um but i think
the bigger innovation here is more around risk management and not just around like how people
understand in this new environment like that they actually choose how things happen um but also like
from a financial standpoint one of the benefits that traditional web2 infrastructures have
is insurance and you know all of the banking infrastructure right they have fdic insurance
they have all these kind of guarantees that if you do get hacked like you're not going to lose your money
and if you you know look at the the web3 industry at large and think about like of all the digital
assets that are out there the percentage of which that are insured um it's like fractionals
and i think the real innovation is going to be in building you know picks and axes around commerce
and you know having more streamlined mobile-based um authentication procedures for wallets
um on one side of the conversation and then having more uh insurance and risk management on the other
interesting well actually you know what i was curious about you mentioned insurance
the the insurance that is provided um by opting into the service i don't think we really talked
about that at all the insurance that's provided by the service is that insurance against like
i think that's it's only if your identity someone gets access to your stuff by your energy
by your identity being compromised and up to 50 000 it's not like anything yeah it's not right yeah i was
gonna say like that would be crazy for his rug insurance right but it's baby the point is that's
baby steps towards i think the right direction in the conversation um and this might not be the right
example but i don't know if you guys remember like back when social security numbers used to always get
hacked and they came out that product called lifelock and the ceo went out there and put his like
social security number he actually ended up getting fucking hacked which is hilarious yeah he did
but the idea was sound in that like our shit is so secure that it doesn't really matter what data you
have access to because we control uh permissioning and we've built a layer of different security
protocols that you know really reduce and mitigate that risk in a lot of cases the risk in some dumb
mfr like losing their ledger and having to dig through the trash is greater than somebody being able
to like bifurcate these encryption codes and get access to your keys uh even if they are stored out
to a third party but if it's done properly um i mean it's not that big of a risk frankly
it's often way too hard for the like the amount you probably have to put in like over a hundred fifty
thousand dollars to extract like eighty thousand dollars from someone's wallet in terms of like value
versus time so it's really oftentimes if the encryption is good enough and general like baseline
protections are high enough that it's not worth it unless you're a super high-end customer that has
like tens of millions in your ledger and then even then if you've got like five if you've got like
fifty million dollars in your ledger you probably should have like paid you should probably be paying
like fifty to a hundred thousand dollars a year for other security measures that aren't a hundred
dollar ledger so it's like it's an argument for a consumer that just simply doesn't exist basically
as far as i'm concerned but let's keep things rolling um i want to hear from matthew another
newcomer to the stage tonight what's going on matthew hey thanks for having me um one concern that i have
on the ledger conversation is yes it's an optional service but i haven't actually seen whether or not
it's mentioned in any of the faqs you know i was in two spaces with their cto earlier and i've tried
to ask pretty much everybody i've come across do you opt in and then it's essentially like a forked version
of the firmware that is updated onto your ledger wallet or do you just get the firmware update that allows the
keys to be exported and then you can actually opt in to create a backup and use it it's the latter
that's terrifying because if we can get someone that is effectively able to call those functions
and a vector to call those functions that seems like pretty much just a naked backdoor waiting to
happen like i understand that the backups are double encrypted that they're sharded with
uh i don't remember triple s
then did you did you want it when you sorry go ahead i'm just curious if jen um had any thoughts
there because i know that jen has had conversations direct team
sorry it was cutting out a tiny bit can you repeat given the firmware we have to opt in after the
firmware update my understanding is you get the firmware update that enables the ability to export the
keys and then you have to opt in after that point to actually use the service and create the backup
is is that what you understand also so i will get clarity on this and i will hopefully have it in
the next like 24 to 48 hours but i from my understanding like it's always been possible
right because your seed phrase exists in your ledger like in an encrypted way you're when you're
interacting with things on the blockchain like that is being used to verify things right it's the same
thing how it's stored in your metamask on your browser um and so that's something i didn't understand
so i think like it's in there whatever this firmware update is is going to be like the next update
and nano x's will have
the ability to opt in to then send it out
um but like also it's only the nano x's will have to do so something that's always been possible
and i know i brought this up earlier right but like with wallet abstraction and erc 437 like we've
been talking about this and i know that other wallets are planning on you know adding that capability to
wallets that have existed in the past so definitely i think we all need more understanding of how it
works um but i i think the capability in the option right exists in the way that it was ledgers are
created and stored um and then what's changing is the ability to opt in you know i will say this
this is kind of like and we're going to get to chulo in a second after matthew uh oh never mind
peace chulo um but like this is kind of indicative to me like right here on stage you have um essentially
power users of their product like high level power users of their product um and we can't give you a
basic understanding question answer to that and that's like not a super like that's not super high level
in terms of like that's not me at telling you the architecture of the device that's just like
this is something that we should probably know and they've done a really piss poor job of clarifying
that exactly and one of my main concerns is what i've helped companies raise money in web 3 and
otherwise for the last five six years now i've probably had at least 10 clients that have recommended
by ledgers that are custodying i would say probably at least 150 mil if not 200 mil plus of money on
these devices and now retroactively they are just updating the firmware and i can't guarantee that
my clients are going to be aware of this so if something happens down the road they're going to
look at me and they're going to say what the fuck matthew you told me this was secure you told me that
there was nothing nothing that could happen with this as long as i did my due diligence and if i use the
wallet i go and get a new ledger and i go and make a new wallet and transfer all the funds
jen go for it like one i'm not i'm not straight now moving any money right like i i would like to
see is like the process that you go through top 10 and how that changes things in your device and how
it doesn't um and i think that totally on an educational level like i know myself and other
people i've talked to we all thought like your seed phrase was generated once and it never existed
again that's not true and i think this is important because it shows that like everyone's like oh hide
the wires like no one wants to see what's under the hood and we do need to see it right especially
all of us that have learned this way now but like opting in requires a passport right like i'm sure
there's gonna be people that live in places that won't even have the option to opt in right i don't
think it's gonna have anything is gonna accidentally happen and what i want security on is that i have
to opt in for this for these pieces of my seed phrase to leave my wallet right and as long as it's
like you have to opt in and take in multiple steps i'm not really worried about that because like
i'm not going to take those steps for me personally i also know a lot of people that really need these
steps and yeah i it's communications it's pr it's education right like you have to understand the
space that we're going into and this is the most important thing we teach everyone the most important
thing is your seed phrase and keeping it safe so information like this needs to be rolled out properly
and hopefully we can get retroactive information that will give us clarity for power custody and all of
our crypto anywhere um but i i don't think you like misled your clients in any way i don't think
they're at immediate risk any differently than they were yesterday yeah just to be clear at least in my
opinion um at the end of the day i still actually do trust ledger i think that the majority of the
problem here is just that i mean we still don't really fully understand how exactly the wallet itself is
working um and i think that's the the crux of much of our issue so i to be honest i think that's like
where a lot of our pain points are lying kiro you seem very very enthusiastic about it go for it yeah
you need a manual interaction on the actual device even enable that then you need to go through kyc which
if you do you're already giving up whatever like insignificant amount of like privacy that you have
and um it'd probably be pretty foolish for it for you to do that if you're crypto native but like
this is like really good for people that have like less than around fifty thousand or less than fifty
thousand dollars that aren't really um tech savvy and don't uh have the resources to get to people like
jen or blockchain ninja that can kind of walk them through how to set up a game plan for the future
i just don't like that everything costs ten dollars subscription a month these days like this is
getting ridiculous how much a month am i going to sign up for bro and then the other thing is stop
listening to people that can't pay ten dollars a month for twitter because all they do is complain
jen you're rugging a little bit yeah it's probably driving also who can't pay for wi-fi
i'm not at my house right now so um i do pay my wi-fi bill i accidentally was paying a wi-fi bill from
an old apartment so for my neighbors or like next neighbor whatever i don't know anyway um if you put
your shit on auto pay and then you don't go out anymore um so you don't lose your credit cards
anymore just remember to like cancel them and get new ones on the schedule uh dgen advice i had to
cancel a credit card like a month and a half ago and i kind of learned like which subscriptions i don't
really need anymore because yeah like i used to lose my shit all the time now i don't go out anymore
it's like like i i need to like for example i need to uh update i think um like xbox game pass
has been emailing me it's like what's going on dude and i'm like uh i don't really use game pass
anymore i think i'm good so i'm not mad about paying ten dollars a month i think we all need to
get used to that fact the only reason like social media was free is because our data is so profitable
so like if we want more privacy and if we want consent on what platforms are taking from us
right like someone has to pay to keep it running like i want them to keep all the servers up for
ledger i want it to be fucking functional like it's something that's important to me it's yeah i
think we have to if we all want to get paid right we have to also realize that everyone else needs to
get paid as well you know what is interesting though wasn't it like a year and a half ago
like when i entered the space it was almost a toss-up with what you'd go with like a lot of
people at the time were still using treasures and still going with treasures i asked and it was like
you could go with treasure treasure or you could go with uh you could go with ledger there's another
one that was like a whole stand-up desk solution where it was like almost like a phone that you just
put on your desk the grid yes the lattice yeah yeah so it was like there were there were a multiple
competitors and ledger's just kind of run away with the competition the past year it's kind of
nuts to watch and and now of course you know they're getting some blowback here but it's just
fascinating watching how they're like shaping out in real time i mean they have like six million
holders and there's like 10 000 of us on twitter so like while we might be the loudest to ourselves
we're probably not the majority of users yeah yeah nick go for it then we'll toss the bgs i was gonna
say i i ordered my little mini ipod touch ledger stacks like five months ago so i wouldn't receive
that so another reason for me to fuck them i don't know i want to get this little cool thing bro like
what's going on yeah once the stacks coming out i think i've got like two stacks uh claim nfts or at
least one i want one of those stacks they look pretty all right let's toss things over to vgf what's
what's going off what's going on dude um just on the topic of people throwing out uh proposed
alternatives um there's been a couple names mentioned like uh treasure grid lattice plus
uh using something like a pseudo hardware wallet an old device uh that you wipe and essentially only
connect when you need to do transactions and things like that for sake of argument there's probably a lot
of people that have a like an old cell phone that don't even need to go buy something but like i mean
that's all another rabbit hole um but there's there's always compromises like for sake of argument
the guy that was talking about you know having uh customers that have a hundred if you're in the tens
of millions of dollars and you're worried about your your asset security you should probably look be
looking into like safe or copper or fire blocks or something along that like that sort if you're
talking about they thing by the way like definitely look into safe is great like use your hardware wallet
as a key signer on your safe that's exactly what i do in fact i'll tell you this like i um i actually use
safe i used it very recently i'm setting up like a uh a i set up a safe for funding regarding an
event i'm trying to put on in vegas um which if by the way if anyone's going to sponsor a paintball
event in vegas uh let me know um and putting it together i was like wow this is remarkably easy
incredibly efficient and clean and it was just like a beautifully simple experience to make sure that
any funds that are being brought in are completely completely secure it's like it literally took us three
less than three minutes to set up a a solid safe and it's just like one of the best experiences so
let me just say that if you are if you if you're looking to recommend clients um you know a way of
managing hundreds if not more millions of dollars uh safe like that's your answer which there is is
that gnosis post rebrand is that exactly exactly that's what i've been recommending fantastic for the
last little while it's just people had already recommended to yeah i mean a hardware wallet as
like baseline like if you don't have a hardware wallet you should have a hardware wallet because
in general like the only distinction between a hardware and a software wallet is the generation
and storage of the private keys like if you're if you're okay with it having like
some semblance of a digital footprint in that it's created via software instead of a hardware device
then a pseudo hardware solution like an old phone is probably okay for you but like to everyone else
like yeah a baseline of a hardware wallet is a good place to start like let's start there and then build
on that um but then for other people like it's worth throwing in an asterisk for safe because there
are some complications with storage of nfts but for erc20s bitcoin like going like all the way down the
rabbit hole of like there are a lot of multi-sig solutions that are fantastic that probably
some infinitesimally small fraction of people that actually engage here and actually leverage
like outside of like dows and things like that there there's probably very few people that take
advantage of them for like their personal security dude safe is genuinely great and real quick i'm
gonna talk secure in a second but um just real quick just resetting the room guys i appreciate you
coming through uh this is the really good web 3 show i i'm blanking hold on one moment rudo and i
are your host for tonight rudo is the host i'm the co-host we swap every other day uh tomorrow i'll be
i'll be hosting so if you want to catch more of this we start we run these every monday through thursday
at 8 p.m and uh you're gonna have to follow both of us and you have to turn on notifications before both of
us sorry uh also just separately that's how they get you that's how we get you we not one but two
follows um and if you want to catch more of this we also speak on the the daily alpha which is every
morning tuesday through saturday starting at 10 45 a.m eastern going to 1 45 p.m eastern so if you guys
enjoy this type of conversation you go there for all the alpha and come here for all the discussions
kiro keep things rolling what's on your mind yeah i was just sorry i just have to say i apologize i'm
barbecuing so the smoke is killing me but um i'm sure it's delicious yeah i'll take pictures in a
little bit um i'm just kind of still cooking but what i was gonna say is that matthew if you're
interested i could introduce you to blockchain ninja um and he can help you come up with like a security plan
for your clients um also uh so when you're dealing with the type of funds that you're dealing with
um it might be like probably a really good idea to talk to ledger about their um their institutional
level uh enterprise hardware for uh token storage um i i don't know if any other of these other
companies that they mentioned um because i don't have any experience with those companies like
treasure and stuff like that copper and fire blocks that i mentioned are both enterprise storage
yeah yeah yeah yeah i i know um i just have experience with i was about to ask vgf what um
what what what's used at pixel vault but then i realized that that was going to be a really stupid
question and yeah never mind sorry you're usdc that's what's used at pixel vault they're they were
smart they didn't uh let their treasury go to zero okay that's for the rest of you founders maybe you
guys hit a vgf and like get an education on how to run a business it might be helpful very thankfully
i'm i'm i'm familiar with but not in charge of uh operation and finances but we pay very well to those
that are so uh if you if you need good accountants i i can i can make some referrals
oh i think we all need good accountants um i did my taxes it didn't go well uh i had to pay them
like 50 grand so it is what it is
hey vgf oh actually toss back to matthew matthew sorry what's on your mind what's on
i was just gonna say thanks for the suggestions on the security plan front i'm always happy to meet
new friends and have new conversations yeah i'll definitely put you in a chat in a moment i'm just
turning this chicken and i will put you in a chat with uh blockchain ninja
oh blockchain ninja that guy's fantastic um amazing completely amazing just like an absolute resource
no he he's like an ace i wish he was here tonight oh well um i know some people are exhausted of the
of that conversation but vgf quick question um pixel vault how do you guys feel about paintball
just out of curiosity uh i actually played d1 competitive x ball uh number of years ago i am
personally a big fan uh i'll i'll shoot you a dm okay cool um now i'm just generally curious
is would anyone in this room i'm gonna pose the same question that jen posed earlier in the uh in
the comments section would anyone in this room actually use the service or like consider using it
it i'm gonna take that as a resounding no okay uh well i'm glad we came to that conclusion
i mean i thought about it for my own accord and i was like would i would i actually use this um no
because well one spending 10 bucks a month for something that like this i don't really i don't
see a purpose in that like the only for me that's almost like the only reason why i would want to
have that 10 bucks a month is for like a concern that my house catches fire which i at that point i
would rather just buy a metal device that retains all that information because metal doesn't melt like
it wouldn't burn so like i would have no other reason so i i guess that's like i guess that's kind of
where i feel can i propose like okay so let's say for example you have about 50 grand worth of bitcoin
and you'd like to put it away because you've entered a relationship with a nice young woman from web 3
and you're planning on having children with her right um i think like it might be yeah so hear hear me out
like as a dead man switch you could use this service right but like that's a very uh unique
kind of circumstance to to want to use the the service especially because uh you're not jumping
out of airplanes and stuff are you i i i mean i might i've got a bucket list to do it in dubai but
otherwise no yeah just don't don't do it it's not worth it yeah but the other two there is like you
you mentioned finding woman in web 3 and they're like you know that whole spiel which uh bro i already
told you i guess vegas will have some fun you'll you'll meet a nice young lady that's not in oh
yeah sure she doesn't steal your private keys yeah sure dude yeah bro bro bro we're gonna go play
we're gonna go play ping pong and and do some other like normal people shit not like nftmf or shit i'm not
drinking so i'm definitely not opting in um the whole passport thing is just like a big no for me
but i do think it is interesting to go in a direction of like hey i this is my id with my
wallet i opted in this service and if i die and my family can prove death certificates then like what
goes in my wallet gets transferred to them because like anyone that i'm allocating assets to if like
i die before them right like they don't know how to fucking get it um and i know there's other services
for that and there's gonna be you know bigger things but i think in line with this is just like
a direction that this can go that for mainstream or even just like thinking about your family
jen the funds are also insured up to fifty thousand dollars in yeah but only if someone
like hacks your identity right so like hopefully that is not happening like that's the thing that's
happening it's it's fifty thousand dollars if their system fails and if their system fails it's like uh
i don't know if i want to be using that system like there's there's bigger any system can fail like
literally any system this right of course your iphone your apple like any system can fail and
we're in a period of time where like it's going to be us versus the machines right it's already there
like there's a lot more access to ways to make things fail i think there's also a lot of really
smart people that are getting ahead of it i mean like fdic insurance where it's like okay if we get to
a point where you need the fdic insurance there's bigger problems right like which you know you're
looking at the us economy right now and uh a lot of people that fdic insurance is just simply not
enough and it's like well but but individual and and this is another thing right if you have multiple
ledgers but it's to a passport like how many are you going to be able to insure are you only going to
be able to do one per identity or like as many as you can pay for ten dollars to i think like that's
a question i still have but if you start thinking in like the terms of all this shit failing there's
other ways you can need insurance right people do go through identity theft some are more susceptible
right i don't know what like the backup verifications are going to be so i i think that's if they need
the insurance it's not just on them um there's multiple other things that can fail but i've learned
about thinking about all the things that can fail is not as productive as just thinking of solutions
that can work
fact fact go for it sam yeah i was going to say and and there's other ways of ensuring that are
not like centralized banking insurance products right like as defi continues and we start to get
like some legitimacy and defi i think you're going to have other lending protocols and things where
you know you could essentially go out and self-procure underwriting against um different digital
assets so um i think ultimately where it's going to head is like a more friendly front-end ux ui um
people are going to have to make decisions on on you know what they want their level of like
custody to be there's a big difference between like custody and control right and ownership etc so um
um you know just because like you're operating through a different vehicle that maybe not be
you know it is not like as offline doesn't necessarily mean it's not like just as secure
if not more secure in my view and like there are a lot of risks associated with going like completely
offline with stuff too right like just your house burning down and you know somebody mentioned earlier
like trying to get their papers like laminated so it doesn't get wet like with their seed phrases so
like that's a bigger risk in my personal opinion than like you know pieces of my seed phrase flying
around out in in the atmosphere so i don't know it's kind of my view yeah that's the only thing i
worried about since i um withdrew my actual bitcoin and i have them in like these metal coins um that's
the tough part for me because if my house catches fire then like my bitcoin's gone then but no you made
a lot of really good points uh sam and as usual always gigabrain shit that comes out of your mouth so we
appreciate having you up here you went to the bitcoin atm and pulled out like change yeah yeah
so people are people are like complaining all this stuff i'm like dude just just take out your bitcoin
and withdraw it and then putting it into piggy bank man not that hard hey guys and bgf was bgf was
talking about this earlier too but i think this would be a dope uh dope idea bgf like build the storage
into radio and then you would have like a complete offline solution because you know you can run bitcoin on
radio if the networks ever go down so yeah but i have a quick question i just wanted to ask if there
was a possibility um because i just got in here and it seems like i'm going into different twitter
spaces about this ledger debacle and it seems like they do have some back doors because these api keys
and um these apis for the shards how do we know that one of these companies doesn't have let's say
an avaristic employee and is able to take the two-thirds of that shard and create the seed because
they already know that they already have your they already have your identification and then they can just
take the seed in accordance to the identification in that respect and lastly is it actually true
that they're actually insuring up to 50 grand which you know 50 grand but yes so to answer your second
question the answer is yes um they do insure up to 50 000 um and to answer your first question i mean
honestly it wasn't really a question but personally i don't think we should kind of speculate on like
worst case scenario stuff because obviously that is it's not impossible it is possible
but i don't think there's any kind of point to speculating on a worst case scenario obviously if
you are truly in tune with like your your tokens like your ownership then you know just personal
accountability here right like figure out what are best like security practices for yourself and then
go about doing that of course yeah i just think it's like highly on i mean it's possible that like
a cabal of employees could get together and stir some stir some shit up that uh one of these places
and then also you know create a cabal at the uh at ledger and you know have these two cabals work
together it's certainly definitely possible but i would i would say it's like it's so unlikely at this
point that it's yeah they're a concern yeah i mean hey look a supercomputer and a quantum computer could
be built tomorrow and then they can drain all of our wallets and then be the largest board a holder
like in the world okay so like again we can speculate on worst case scenarios but um but yeah
to answer your second question cory and we appreciate you coming up here brother um yeah 50k
uh for ledger yeah thank you and my last question is just simply for the people up here because i have
been listening for the last 20 minutes and you guys seem well now well versed and well and very
knowledgeable the other twitter spaces i've went into it appears that most people have the iq of a shovel
when it comes to security so let me let me get i'm clipping that for marketing content just so
you know thank you go ahead that's fine um do you got is anybody here up here who is who does own a
ledger do you guys plan on still using that ledger after this i still yeah i still i still have a ledger
um i plan on still using it okay yeah am i gonna put all am i gonna put 100 of my portfolio in it
of course not never i don't think anyone should do that ever um but yeah i'm still gonna keep some
crypto in there for sure cool all right all right that's that's kind of that's kind of reassuring
all right those are my questions so thank you we appreciate you cory and thanks for coming in
man thanks for tuning in and showing support it was your first time up here but we would love to have
you again um of course but guys oh go ahead cory no i'm just saying of course thank you no no problem
man so guys listen up we're gonna do a quick reset and um i think we've had an incredible
discussion for tonight um i mean if you aren't already if you guys are listening in right now
please give everyone that is up here right now speaking the amount of value that they've given
to everybody adding to the discussion um and obviously as being adults too uh please give them
a follow because these are incredible people i trust a lot of people that are up on on this panel
for the knowledge that they bring um i'm not saying you should always do your own research but
these guys are incredible so please give them a follow um with that said eddie what do you got
man i think we're gonna we're looking to wrap things up eddie go ahead man yeah so my thought is
guys for uh just so that you know for the rest of the week um definitely gonna have a show tomorrow
definitely not sure about thursday because not like really because thursday i'm gonna be in miami
bruto is gonna be maybe in miami maybe not we'll have to see how things roll um but if you want to
know i mean the only way that you're gonna know what we're up to is you have to follow ruto and
i and turn on notifications cough cough so keep that slide that one in there bg i feel like always
always yo listen if you're not chilling yourself then i don't know what you're doing man but um
listen guys this has been incredible i appreciate you guys so much i know i i kind of i'm it's not
like a broken record at this point but i'm i'm honestly just so thankful that i get to meet and
interact with people like you all the time and those of you who tuned in for the entirety
of this twitter space that sort of support is absurd to me the thought that i even have
10 people who are willing to listen to me and to eddie and i is uh it's huge man it's huge for me so it
is really cool and i will say this like i've noticed just anecdotally um there's no way of saying
this without without like kind of humble bragging i've noticed that like our core audience has started
to expand a bit in the past week or two um which you know genuine appreciation to you guys and
appreciation that you come and stick around and listen to us jabber on uh it means a lot but like
it's it's clearly noticeable and uh we will keep seeing you guys around 8 p.m monday through thursdays
absolutely and make sure you guys tune into the tda uh the daily alpha hosted by chief and expresso we
do work under that brand and they host their spaces every tuesday 10 45 a.m eastern to saturday uh
10 45 a.m eastern to 1 45 p.m eastern so with that said guys this has been huge eddie do you
have anything else before i uh go ahead and give with the mantra let's end it rudo listen up everyone
you could have been everywhere in the world but you were here with us tonight and for that we love
you we appreciate you we'll see you tomorrow the really good web 3 show or the tda peace peace
