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Let's GROW Live 24/7 Gitcoin Community
Recorded: April 7, 2025 Duration: 0:31:57Space Recording
Short Summary
The Green Pill Network is making strides in community growth and innovative project development, with a focus on partnerships, grants, and user-friendly tools. As the ecosystem evolves, new revenue streams like squad staking are emerging, alongside a commitment to sustainable funding and governance structures.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, I got you.
Got you guys.
Got you.
You're alive? I have no idea.
Okay.
We're back.
We're back.
We're back.
Okay.
Whoops.
Lord.
Okay.
It's funny.
We're going to try that one more time.
We're thinking of streaming the whole thing. One more time. Here we go.
Okay.
All right.
Okay. This is a bit risky
doing everything on the hot spot, but
okay. You know what? I'm going to
give the grow host invite to Matt.
One sec. Thank you for your patience,
Afo. This is the world's
worst timing ever.
Marcus and PhiloFact, you just
got completely
Wi-Fi rugged.
Okay, did you get the host invite, Matt?
Okay, amazing.
Okay, we are set. We are set and rolling. Okay, from the top, from the tippy top.
Okay. All right. Hello and welcome, Apo, to Let's Grow Live. I appreciate you being here. Thank you
for your patience with the challenges that we have endured today. So I want to start off by hearing a bit about your story.
I know you're very much involved in the Dev Guild of Green Pill.
So lay it on us.
Share some more about your journey to getting all the green pill
and then we can get into all the juicy stuff about what's cooking in the Green Pill Network.
Yeah, I would love to.
Thanks for having me on.
This is great.
Love the Let's Grow DAO community.
And yeah, so a little bit about my backstory. So I got into the region space specifically around
2022. Before that, I was working in the Web2 space as a software engineer. Then I started
doing some contracting gigs in the web through a
web three space um but they weren't really like regenerative they're mostly like on the nft
token side of things um and then uh started getting more into this space uh just first from
train league i was inspired by kind of that notion of bringing off-chain data on chain um like you
know to from my perspective i went to to school as a civil engineer. So finding
ways we could better manage resources like water, electricity, and use blockchains to be a part of
that to where it's more transparent and how we're using these resources and things of that nature
was very attractive to me. And that's what brought me into the space. And then from there,
it snowballed into the Bankless podcast and the Green Pill pod. And then I was working on my own personal project called WAFA, which stands for Water, Earth, Fire, Air, inspired by Pokemon Avatar Last Airbender.
And basically, it's the application to create a symbiotic relationship between actual plants and creatures, digital creatures.
So I was working on that and looking for a community where I could incubate it and kind of work with other people.
So joined the Green Pill Discord.
And then from there, just kind of slowly snowballed into getting more involved.
First with the California chapter, used to be formerly Los Angeles chapter, then getting
into the Dev Guild.
And that's something like, yeah, where I really put my roots in and just help started that
up, like bootstrap the dev guild in late 2023. And then from there, just got more involved in the network. And now also I'm a
network steward and then also involved in the region coordination. And it's kind of snowballed
from that time since late 2023. Right on. I love the snowball effect. Okay. So for those who aren't super familiar with the Dev Guild, tell me the core premise of the Dev Guild and what you guys are up to amongst the Guild.
for the network where it provides support on the technical tooling level. And what does that look
like? That looks like doing workshops, providing technical support for different region tools,
creating our own tools that are specifically honed in for the Greenville community and the
region community at large. So that's what the DevGills focused on. Really last year was really a community building effort, you know, getting that core people
that are involved consistently throughout.
And then now our projects are starting to mature and we're starting to get them more
into a production state.
So we're now, I feel like this next iteration of the Dev Guild for this year is going to
be very tooling based to where we're going to be rolling out tools, helping people use
these tools, you know, doing partnerships with other tools, et cetera.
So, yeah, the DevGills focus on supporting, you know, the Greenpool chapters and the communities and the region space at large.
And hopefully we're doing a decent job of that with this, you know, providing different resources, whether that's like the YouTube workshops or, yeah, different tooling.
workshops or yeah, different tooling, but yeah, that's the depth.
But, yeah, that's the DevGills.
Yeah, sweet.
I'm sure this tooling is super useful for a lot of the different chapters and
people in the region space.
So can you shine a bit more light on what the tooling looks like currently,
what you guys are working on in terms of tooling and then where you hope the
tooling is going to evolve into?
So currently we've had a couple projects we've done. One
I highlight from last year was Impact Reef, which was an OP mission request. And that was simply a
OP-specific site where you could view OP projects in different retro rounds and then provide
endorsements. So qualitative proof of, hey, this project is doing good. They're building well. And then from that, we've also worked on
Green Goods, which is a biodiversity project first funded by the RefineR grant last year.
And that's a PWA where you're able to install it on your phone and then use it to capture different
biodiversity actions, such as identifying plants, planting native species, and then use it to capture different biodiversity actions such as identifying plants,
planting native species, and then have that be attested on chain. And an idea with that is to
aggregate those attestations into different types of certs, hyper certs, different impact claims
that you could then go to say, hey, this is all the impact we've created. And currently,
we've hyper-focused on the biodiversity use case, but definitely want to expand it to more use cases in the future for like anything. You're
doing an event, capture some photos, attest to what happened, you know, and then also connect
on the backend to emerging primitives like Karma Gap, so that when you do this reporting,
it automatically updates your Karma Gap or updates other sources, so you no longer have to to worry about that um and another project
is greenwell um which is more focused very on the greenfield community and it's focused on getting a
strong rich data set of activity uh and yeah kind of
in uh in greenfield are you good you're good So basically the idea there is to look at people's
on-chain activity within Greenfield.
What events have you attended?
What rounds have you donated to?
And use that to create a picture of your Greenwill,
how involved you are in the community.
And that's important so we could, at the network level,
figure out more governance and kind of the weights
for different processes and different decision-making. Yeah yeah good things so that's green will and then trying to see there's a
couple more uh so well and i like to kind of center things in the sense that we have three
pillars in the dev guild we have impact tooling um so that's focused on tooling that's focused on
impact measurement and tracking and capture we have capital allocation so those tools you know using like basically aloe base where you could allocate
capital better and then community coordination so that's tools that help with communities better
coordinate so greenville falls under that coordination bucket uh impact refunded the
impact one so so is green goods and then another project that's under the capital allocation pillar would be
Alloyator, which was a Gitcoin RFP to build a simple distribution app where you could send
multiple funds to multiple people, or you could send to multiple people funds in a single go.
And now we're looking to refine that and bring that to the Celo ecosystem and help Celo regional
hubs and other you know grant
programs being run on cello use as a tool to do you know distribution for payouts and and stuff
of that manner and then last project i know it's a lot actually i got two more things to mention
then we get in yeah we're doing a lot here um the last one of the last ones is uh community hosts
so that was an ai agent project that we did from the ETH Global Agentic Hackathon.
And then from there, we built an agent that's heavily focused on supporting onboarding. So
right, somebody comes on your server, a lot of times, you know, being on the network side,
we have to hold their hand, walk them through the process, get them set up, ask what they know,
what they don't know. And it takes a lot of time.
So having an agent that can support that, and then as well as do different on-chain features,
such as create a wallet, make them unlock NFT membership, and then kind of get them already
started to be able to participate in the community with minimal effort. So we're working on that
within the Greenfield Network, and then also to build it for Unlock Protocol. So we're working on that within the Greenfield network and then also to build it for unlock protocol.
So we're currently working on a proposal there. And then the last project I want to mention is Obo squad staking.
So that's where you're able to have a set of different validators, not just one staker, and able to distribute the effort.
So you have a squad staking 32E. And the reason that's really interesting is because given that we're public's good focus,
Lido is willing to provide that 32E so that you don't have to have that up front, making lower entry costs for people to get involved. And from my perspective, for the network and for the dev
building at large, this is one of the more solid revenue streams, right? That you could kind of
track, measure, engage in something that's not fluctuated,
something that's not based on decision-making as much, like grants and stuff like that nature. So
very bullish on growing global squad-taking. But hopefully, yeah, that's the core tooling
we're working on. So, yeah. I love it, man. Yeah, you know, yeah, finding sustainable revenue streams when you're really trying to regenerate the world has been a bit of a challenge for some people in the spaces. But it's cool to hear about all the innovation that's happening in the space. And that sounds like a cool, interesting revenue stream. Maybe there is some other kind of revenue opportunities that you're seeing, you know, with the finger on the pulse of everything that's happening in the regen world you know what what do you see as some some sustainable you know
revenue structures or streams for the regions who are really hoping to to do the thing as as much as
possible yeah i think it's a good question i think it's still it's tricky i think um if you're just
looking and looking within insular within our our space, right now the market's not
in the best position. And a lot of times that does dictate opportunity and the ways we could access
revenue and capital. So I think for our space, like building in the region space,
I think we need to more so look outwards and look at where there already exists funds within a traditional space. And we need to create tools that just abstract away. I think we
are now moving to a state of maturity to where before we're just building within our ecosystem
within tooling for that. But the tooling gets to a point where you can abstract it to where
anybody could use it outside of our space and not even need to know what's web 3. so i think we need to like kind of move more outside and those
are what that's where the revenue is at you know uh that programs within the traditional space you
know government funding for different you know local projects and things of that nature so given
that regenerative is so human and community based right that to my opinion is to like start building, start reaching
out to these local governments and, you know, tapping into the funds that they have to build
different tools to better manage X resource or, you know, yeah, different things within that
community. So yeah, I think right now it's still the name of the game is grants for a lot of,
for a lot of things, which is is you know um nice at times then
there's some cool on chain things happening but i don't think they have as big of revenue behind
them yet like streaming things of that nature where you know you can set up a stream and if
you know that could go over time with different voting mechanisms um so i'm very optimistic about
that but i don't really want to mention that it's like right now like oh this is because it's still something that's new and most of the streams set up are still very
minimal and not something that you could really sustain off of currently. So yeah, that'd be my
take currently when it comes to funding opportunities and where to find the money.
Yeah, we got to bring the traditional on chain in a way where they don't even know that they're going on chain.
You want to abstract that away, make it as smooth as possible for them.
So what does that look like?
Is it like the Web3 mullet in a sense where it's in the back?
Or how do we bring more people on chain?
How do we have them experience it in a really fluid and smooth way in your view?
What does that look
like tangibly yeah what does it look like that looks like you know my mom my dad or you know my
family being able to um and it's getting there because they could i could i already have a link
now that i could share for them for this round to donate right and they're not gonna have to like
worry about creating a wallet and all these things. And I think it's a very gradual process.
Right.
I'll say it again.
Like PayPal, for example, is that what you mean?
Yeah.
The PayPal integration.
Yeah.
Things like that.
Right.
So yeah, some of it's tapping into already existing tools. And then the thing is that, because I look at blockchains, because then there's crypto
and that's more of the user facing.
That's what people see the mainstream, but the tech is blockchains everything's powered by blockchain so just same as the internet like
you're aware of it like you know even when you're young you kind of get onto it like you're aware of
it but you're not really aware of what's going on fully you just know like it connects me to people
connects me to things i care about it connects me to knowledge and these things I want to, you know, learn and communities I want to be a part of, right?
So I think a lot of this is tapping into what are the strong elements
that like, you know, asset ownership, transparency,
that you can then abstract away from to where people are feeling like they're,
and they are truly feeling, you know, I own these things and stuff of that nature.
I have more control,
but in ways that's not like in your face,
like, hey, you own these things.
Here's your wallet.
Here's your, I just go look at all your transactions.
It's just like, oh no, I just own these things
and it feels like I have control over my digital assets.
And then I think a big part of it too,
that we're really not focusing enough on the space is privacy.
Because that was one of the big pushes to go like the web three like one of the
in my opinion is the pillars it's like we wanted autonomy wanted like strong ownership rights and
then also privacy of our data so um that it's not just being you know manipulated and sold and we
don't have that right now so i think until we get that more enshrined as a core primitive within our space, I don't
know if people are working on it.
I think it's going to be, oh, and the last one, identity too.
That's huge.
Being able to have a stronger identity that's not tied to current state governments and
just different current entities that exist.
So yeah, I think there's a lot more work to do to get us there.
But those things, identity, privacy, that enables abstraction, right?
Because then people are able to really build these things out fully.
Got you, yeah.
Maybe think even like if there's like a Apple Pay or a Google Pay option, right?
That's like such an easy transaction
imagine if that were that easy for people to donate on gitcoin or things like this
you know like that's my paypal is i think a good step forward in the right direction um
definitely for the community rounds i mean there's a there's an argument to say like oh if you're
voting on like dev tooling or eth infrastructure maybe you do want web3 people
voting on that right um but for all these community rounds and regenerative stuff yeah
then you want really everyone to be voting on it with their dollars so that makes a whole lot of
sense um so i'm curious how the how the network is set up in terms of governance? Because Web3 governance is a very, you know,
constantly evolving, you know, arena of creativity, design space.
So what does it look like right now for people looking to get involved
in terms of governance and how maybe, like,
the strategy of the treasury would be deployed in the future?
Yeah, that's all good questions and all things we're figuring out in real time.
And, you know, I like actively figuring out,
like probably going to discuss some of that
on this call today, our network steward call.
So kind of give you a little breakdown
of the structure right now is we have network stewards
who are, you know, people with high context
on the network, actively involved
in like helping it grow
and stewarding it,
you know, doing different operations
and core processes,
you know, posting Twitter updates,
you know, getting in grant applications
to that nature.
And then also on the flip side,
reviewing grant applications
from the chapters
and helping with the region coordination round.
So it's kind of, you know,
trying to get the network to grow
while also supporting chapters in the guild. And then of of course we have stewards which are you know kind of the first
um core role and stride within green pill which is you could be a chapter steward you could be a
dub uh you could be a guild steward and to be a steward is to lead um if it's a chapter a local
community of people where you come together uh to work on different things and then you have
the guilds where you know more skilled based writers gub guild dub where you come together to work on different things and then you have the guilds where you know more skill-based writers gubguld dub guild and come together to work on
skill skill-based activities um and currently the governance is pretty minimal there's not there's
not we don't have there's no token uh we don't have anything like on chain that's like a governance
contract well we do have like multi-sigs and for my opinion, that's one of the first levels
of governance, right?
It's just having a multi-sig and having a side of threshold.
And we're currently exploring ways to come on chain.
So HATS protocol, we've been exploring that
to create different roles, NFT roles, and then also gardens,
which a lot of this then ties into the GovGuild, because the GovGuild is
the governance guild, which focuses on experimenting with different governance mechanisms,
trying them out, kind of being the guinea pig for the network to validate some of these tools
before then promoting it and using it within the network. And yeah, currently we have a network steward call every Monday.
And then we have a monthly call every month.
And the network steward call we recently opened up to like all the stewards.
So any steward that's a part of a chapter of guild can join that call, voice their input.
And the goal is we definitely want to start creating like conviction pools,
like signaling pools with gardens to where we could start getting more sentiment
from the broader steward community
to how we should use the funds.
Because currently we don't,
besides the grant rounds and stuff like that,
we don't really touch the treasury.
Even for, that's just something I recently got on
like the multi-sig four.
So we still now wanna figure out like,
okay, how are we gonna use these funds?
What does the community think is most vital for us to focus on?
So I think we'll get a lot of that input from Gardens and then go from there.
But yeah, it's an ever-evolving process.
But what I do appreciate a lot is that the fact that we're not on-chain,
we don't have a token, it allows us to have the space to grow and evolve,
I think, more easier than if we had these things,
which would become constraints.
So, yeah, I think we're in a good position to keep growing
and taking advantage of all the new tooling
and all the new, you know, experiments happening in the Dallas space.
That's an interesting perspective.
Can you go a bit deeper there?
Like, why do you see it as a constraint to have a token?
Can you hear me?
Okay, cool.
Yeah, I think once you have a token, it creates a lot of potential.
Well, depending on how you define a token.
But this creates a pressure depending on if you only have one single token and now you need the price to go up.
Like, here's all these decisions around asset management, treasury, like when to swap tokens and all these things that a lot of times it just creates more friction.
And it just adds to like, yeah, it's your cognitive load like you gotta focus on these things and um at
times i feel like it's well from what i've seen in this space currently it's been very
much more of a thing to where people because i'm most of them aren't into token economics
even myself like i don't really know about token economics like okay we're gonna do different swaps like but then it becomes a scene
that becomes important that's like a core thing of your community and then like people are now like
don't have as much context and it's like and then at times you can see uh conflict arise because
people that like maybe super into tokenomics or aren't and like it just creates this like dynamic
at times.
I don't think a token is bad.
I just think that the token model we've seen where it's like kind of a single token governance structure,
I don't think has really worked that well, in my opinion.
I think exploring more NFT based, soul bound tokens for them to control and having those be role based and prevention based for different resources capital included i think it's more powerful than uh going to a token by something tokens could be
very useful in certain use cases for certain communities um and i do see us having a token
at some point i just think the beauty right now and not having a token is that uh once we have a
token would be hyper focused because yes if it goes down people that
are viewing the community through the lens of your token that's another thing people start viewing
the community through the lens of the token price not a strong correlation at times um oh yeah most
of the times of my opinion to where okay token price going down doesn't mean the communities
going down or they're not doing something right um so I just think the volatility in this larger Web3 space in the markets doesn't create
like, I just don't even think it's a good time for DAOs to be super token focused right
now.
I'd be focused on NFTs, finding ways to scope permissions and create bodies that could efficiently
work and progress things, and then could create a structure
that could then be able to create a token within its own structure. So it's like, you'll need a
token that has a structure, you can create the structure, and then that structure could then
create the parameters for a token, maybe multiple tokens over time, rather than having to come first.
Interesting. You're saying NFT governance first,
like NounsDAO, for example,
and then the token comes later
through the structure of the governance,
which is NFT.
You're saying the token would be non-governance
or do you think some decisions should be like
one person, one vote,
or one NFT, one vote,
and some decisions should be one token, one vote. And you should start with the one person, one vote, or one NFT, one vote, and some decisions should be one token, one vote.
And you should start with the one person, one vote,
or one NFT, one vote.
It depends.
I think there's no one shoe fits off.
It depends on your community,
what type of tool you're building,
what you're trying to do.
So I think there's a multitude of ways to go about it. So I't want to like prescribe like the perfect path because i don't think there is
i just think it's more so about approaching your structure to where you're not viewing the token as
as a core it's a pillar right so when you know rather than like you know plants like they don't
i think tokens have been defined at the core of a lot of systems and dial structures
and looking at more like a pillar to where you could have a three-legged table to start
and it could have that fourth pillar that just makes it stronger with the token.
So I think that's just like the metaphor in my head that I think of it.
Yeah.
Gosh, you build the product first, then do a token later kind of thing if you're building a product
right if you're building community uh it really does depend but typically if you're building a
product i'd focus on um and greenpool networks i really built the dev goes building products and
tools but the network isn't really building tool it's building community building a knowledge base
and uh a resource hub for people um yeah but
yeah you don't need it like that's sort of like yeah what we're trying to like what our core focus
is right now in my opinion what we're doing isn't really token dependent um besides the side the
fact that that could like maybe potentially provide some capital to like you know compensate more but
compensation shouldn't be tied to a token like there's a lot of ways to get compensated and other, we were talking about other revenue
sources earlier.
So yeah, this thing is like, what's your community focused on, right?
Certain DeFi projects or communities, they're going to need a token at the beginning.
It's going to be, because it's a core pillar, like, you know, trying to build something
that has liquidity, like, so this depends on what you're building, really, you know?
Because some things need tokens right at the beginning.
Other things, in my opinion, do not.
True. Really good perspectives, man.
Thank you so much for coming through.
Always a pleasure speaking with you.
And is there anything that I didn't ask you about
that you'd love to share with the people
before we conclude this interview?
Trying to think. Just give me a couple seconds. I got some notes that I just saved.
Okay, here it is.
Now we talked about the governance. I think, yeah, I'll just do this shameless shill of support Greenfield Network as much as you can in these rounds.
We're really, we're a young community.
We're growing.
We need all the support we can get.
I also want to shout out to Dev Guild, which is in the region coordination and the DAPS
and DAPS round.
I would love any support from the community.
And also, yeah, if you need support for your project,
reach out to me, I'll look to support.
And yeah, I just wanna keep growing the space.
Thanks, yeah, thanks Jimmy for having us on.
This has been a great combo and nice to chat.
And it's, yeah, kind of always,
typically head downs in the work.
It's nice to like head up and kind of just
have a conversation and discuss where the space at,
where my mind's
at so yeah appreciate you taking this time thank you for coming through i'll see you on let's grow
live see ya for now let's grow bye Thank you.
