Trippie, a long time no see.
Chelsea, would you like to be one of my illustrious co-hosts
We're going to get started in just a couple of minutes here.
If you guys want to retweet, I would appreciate that.
But first, space back in a minute.
So a little background on what I want to talk about.
I titled the space deliberately this way.
There's a lot of manipulation happening across all platforms.
And the extent to which weaponization is happening
and mobilizations happening around influencing voices,
points of view, perspective, is going
to become a central issue to the 2024 US presidential election.
It's going to become a longstanding issue after it,
no matter what the outcome.
There's going to be a giant scandal.
And this is going to be, this is going
to transcend TikTok, YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn,
x will probably be one of the most central platforms on it
because of the degree to which spaces,
the degree to which autonomous AI is going to,
and speaking AI is going to be central to the issue.
So I just wanted to have a, and I'm recording this space
because I wanted to have a record of like,
I've been saying this for about a year now, Sunny.
Trippie, you guys have been around long enough.
Radu probably, you've heard me talk about this before.
Chelsea probably as well.
But I mean, I really want to have a record of me very
clearly laying out what's about to happen.
Not that I expect to really even be a payoff,
but in a world of like taking victory laps
and maybe getting some sort of a credit for my work,
I wanted to just kind of lay it out.
And as things happen precisely as I lay them out,
maybe people can reference back to this moment and say,
hey, like this guy was trying to try to raise the red flag.
You guys see your hand up.
I was going to say, do you see something about it?
They were doing like bot traffic on the different sites
and like everyone else had like 2%
and x had like 76% or 78% or something.
That's crazy, because they said most of the traffic
and engagement during the Super Bowl
was probably mostly fake, which is crazy.
Because think about, like you said, the election.
And this is something that is not
going to make me more popular with Elon
and the Elon crowd, right?
So if you guys want to invite, if you guys
want to send DMs to people who you see
are active in the big, normal, regular spaces,
I would happily have them up.
And not everybody's corrupt, not everybody's bad,
but people are participating in this system
without even realizing it.
And I think that this space would
be really educational for them to understand how it works.
And the degree to which, relying on that group,
relying on the regular spaces hosts,
relying on the competitive nature of the Terribles
and the Catherines and the Brock Peirson's
and the Krastenstien's and the Mario novels,
relying on them wanting to compete for the cloud
and compete to have Elon come in their space
and to compete to have all the regular big name
accounts, the CB Doge's and the whole Mario's catalogs.
I invited them, by the way.
They probably won't show.
But the extent to which that is a reliable infrastructure
is actually part of what is making this all possible.
And so it's almost like this red pill moment, potentially,
for the platform, where it's like understanding how, even
if you're not actively participating in this,
even if you yourself are not corrupt,
the reliance that Gary Cardone is going to open up a space
and is only going to have up the people who
are on the Gary Cardone bandwagon is part of what
is going to be weaponized.
And those guys, they're just out to benefit themselves.
And they're looking to monetize their own platform.
They're looking to monetize their own audience.
But again, the reliability of us to compete
for that advertiser revenue share bag,
the reliability for us to compete for that clout
is what is going to be so predictable and so malleable
into the 2024 election and beyond.
And I don't want this space to become super politicized right.
So this isn't going to be about Biden versus Trump.
This is not going to be about right versus left,
who the right candidates are.
I want this conversation, and let's face it,
it's probably going to spill over into that a little bit.
But I want to try to, the goal is
to keep the conversation really on focus
of what are the mechanisms and the tools
and the platforms and the weapons
by which are going to be exploited going
into these moments, these key pivotal moments.
And you guys are early arrivals.
Hopefully the space fills out more.
Of course, I'm going to leave the recording up
so people can listen to it later.
Myspaces tend to do better on recording, guys, by the way.
So for those who are in attendance,
just know that you're welcome to raise your hand,
welcome to come up, please retweet the space.
Really helps with the Elgos we're
going to talk to about why I have 100,000 followers
we'll start with very briefly and why
I get so little engagement, right?
And this speaks, again, I don't want to make this about me,
but I'm a prime example of I'm sort of the canary
in the coal mine of one of the sort of consequences of this.
I was speaking to Dan, Kettlebell Dan,
from X on the DM quite a bit the last week,
and about shadow banning and about this issue.
And hopefully he's escalating this
to the right people internally.
But the problem is, the conundrum is,
when you look at my account,
if you plug my account in that shadowband.eu site,
it comes up as all green across the board.
Now, by the way, X has at the account level,
they still have account restrictions, by the way,
But they did remove a lot of what the traditional
shadowbands at the account level could be.
And so for me, for instance, on my account,
I have been taken care of in that sense,
the account level shadowband that had been grieving me
for so long has been removed on my account.
But the first tentpole of these platform manipulations
is algorithmic manipulation.
And on X, it's sort of a rolling,
it is what I refer to as effectuating a shadowband.
It's having the effect of a shadowband.
And the way that works is,
when X open-sourced their algorithm,
they basically revealed to the public
all of the little dials you could turn,
all the variables that are involved with
the evaluation algorithmically of,
will any single post do well or not?
And the lifespan of a post is really important
because the lifespan of a post typically on X
And so that's where you're gonna get the vast majority
of all of your engagement.
And from that point forward,
time has a dramatic effect on a post discoverability,
So, first of all, there's a clear target window now
of where you can focus your resources
and focus your influence.
That gives, right off the bat,
I'm gonna say bad actors of the world,
I'm gonna consider them as people who have a motive
for any reason to manipulate the up or down,
the success or failure of a single given post,
either theirs or an enemy's or somebody else's, okay?
So, it immediately gives a target for bad actors to aim for,
inauthentic actors to aim for.
Now B, then it reveals what buttons,
what other variables will affect it beyond just time.
So, you have your time wanted to aim for,
now you have different buttons like the retweet button,
retweet with comment button, repost, we'll call it now,
and then when you click the triple dot button,
you have your hides, your mutes,
your leave conversations and your reports.
All of these buttons signal to the X algorithm
something differently on a per post basis.
So, it's not an account level shadow ban
that's happening anymore, it's per post.
And so, when you manipulate a post,
when I say manipulate, when you retweet a post
or you hit the like button on a post,
that's a positive indicator to the algorithm.
So, what it does is it's a drop in the,
hey, show this to more people box.
Not only does it show it to more people
so it'll show my tweet to more of your audience.
But then beyond that, it adds an extra little drop
that says, hey, show this to the for you section
of a percentage of all the people
who have retweeted it or talked about it,
So, if the three of you retweet my space,
and not only does it show my space to your audiences
if they don't know the following tab,
but then it gives that post, it tells the algorithm,
hey, show this to even more of Josh's audience
in the for you section right now, as soon as possible.
Now, on the other side of that,
if somebody, for every time somebody reports my space
or reports a tweet or hides or mutes me
because of something I said,
that has a different effect.
If you report a post on that post alone,
it gives you a heavy negative rating.
So, it immediately tells the algorithm,
hey, by the way, for every five retweets,
negate five of those retweets
because for every five retweets,
there's one person who found this offensive.
And that's about the ratio.
It's actually a lot worse.
almost immediately kills that tweet.
And we're talking about a single report, by the way.
Now, this gets more complicated
if you have a history of reporting,
like let's say that you report a lot of fucking people,
The algorithm does have a way of detecting that.
So, this gets really complicated in the sense
that then there's like these groups of accounts
that you, these botnet of accounts
that you, it's called round-robbing through,
you rotate your actions around
so that no one account rises
above a certain threshold of suspicious behavior.
But we won't go down that rabbit hole for now.
Let's just stick on the individual variables
So, then hiding has a different effect.
if my account gets reported
by lots of different accounts over time,
that gradually adds a weighting to my,
my account level, not just the per post level.
So, then if let's say for 10 days in a row,
I consistently get reports on 10 of my tweets
from each one of those days.
Well, now there's a slow build of negative weighting
on anything that I post going into the future.
And so, this is a really complicated algorithm.
And the fact that they open sourced,
it means that it can be reverse engineered
and there can be bad actors who understand
the effects that this has on an account
and somebody's ability to speak.
Now, this can either be gained to the positive
You can inauthentically pad your performance
or you can deboost your performance.
Now, why is this a real systemic level threat?
Well, this is a systemic level threat
because by this merely existing,
if I know that there are people targeting me
to artificially negatively suppress my voice
for any reason, just pull the thought experiment here,
then it forces me, kind of like an arms race,
kind of like a nuclear arms race, if you will,
it kind of forces me to start deploying resources
to artificially counteract that artificial censorship.
So, what it's doing is it's incentivizing both sides
to start engaging in this black market subterfuge
to defend myself because the fact that I know
that it is happening to me.
And then even worse, it creates opportunity and incentive
for people who maybe aren't getting censored
to go, well, you know what?
I want a bigger revenue sharing bag.
I wanna perform even better than everybody else.
So, I'm gonna start studying all the techniques
that artificially amplify my voice that I can do.
And then I'm gonna go into black market
and I'm gonna pay botnet accounts
to do all the positive stuff for me.
And oh, by the way, or maybe artificially buying likes
and retweets might get my account red flag.
So, I'm not gonna do that.
But instead, you know what?
I'm gonna throw in and I'm gonna say,
I'm gonna take my top three competitors
and I'm gonna buy some stuff to deboost their posts.
Because if I deboost their posts,
my posts have a wider market viability.
My posts will do better intrinsically
because I've removed the voices of my top competitors
who talk about the same stuff I talk about.
So, now you start to incentivize gray area,
like marginal behavior that is really toxic.
And this is what X, above all other platforms,
The Google algorithm isn't open source, okay?
The YouTube algorithm isn't open source.
The LinkedIn algorithm isn't open source.
This is why the X platform has gotten this so bad
is because of that one decision Elon Musk made.
And I don't know, it's unclear to me
the extent to which he understands that
and is okay with it temporarily, right?
Because he has a bigger mission on his mind
or to what extent he really hasn't thought this deep
about it and this is why I've been trying to speak
about it and bring it to his attention.
Because I have raw data, like this is not hypothetical.
I'm talking about it in hypothetical terms with you all
because to try to present the raw data
in a public forum is really complicated.
This is not simple stuff to consume.
It's vast networks of interconnected behaviors
and mechanisms that you need to consume.
Any engineer on X's team would be able to follow my data
and understand, wow, yeah, that's coordinated behavior.
But to the public, it would just become highly,
It would be a very impractical venue
to present that information.
But the point is, it is happening.
And so Trippie, going back to your question
about 78% of X's traffic with bot driving.
Yes, I don't know the exact number.
I doubt it was 78, but it was probably 48, right?
It was probably close to half, which dramatically,
which is kills any claim they have to record-breaking numbers
and stuff like this, right?
Like 48% of bot driving would still be absurdly ridiculous.
Because that was such a profitable motive, was Super Bowl.
Generating clout, generating clout around that moment,
there was such a premium placed on that,
that you saw the behaviors was more people participated in it.
So if on an average day, there's only
25% platform manipulation, we saw in proof of concept
that on a big, big global moment like a sporting event
like the Super Bowl, that there was a more incentive
to artificially inflate your voice
that three to five times as many people participated in it.
Now, what other events are coming up
that we know will be a similar incentive?
And look, Taylor Swift too,
that was just such a huge more market for that Super Bowl,
just like the millions and millions of people
Oh man, like I saw so much,
they blew up Travis Kelsey getting a little heated
at Andy Reid, they blew it up like,
oh dude, as anger, they blew up like,
oh dude, he was wild man.
Yeah, so the fact is we already are seeing
the market prove and validate these assertions
that I'm making, that around opportunistic moments
where there is already going to be these premiums,
these coefficients placed on attention
and valuing of the attention and the attention economy
that the weaponized manipulation is exacerbated.
And boy, I mean, now we start getting into the territory
Like there's no like state government or state actor
that is trying to manipulate the Super Bowl, right?
That's all conspiracy theory land.
But guess where there absolutely is state involvement,
state propaganda, state manipulation,
And we thought 2016 was bad with Cambridge Analytica
2024 is going to be remarkably bad for democracies.
Now, to the degree that you see OpenAI
publishing articles just last week,
they wrote how they introduced plans and initiatives
to mitigate political generative AI interference.
About a year too late, right?
I was trying to get them to start this last year.
So about a year too late and it's gonna have,
I'm not saying, I'm not like criticizing them.
Yes, they should have done this just a year ago
Because I don't know to what extent
that's gonna materially impact this issue.
The issue is more of a platform level issue
than it is the GenAI side.
Because the amount of people using OpenAI
those are just your average lay people.
The real threats here are people
with their own inferencing engines,
their own local open models
that are not gonna go through OpenAI services anyway.
And so, you know, and I wanna speak to the degree
to which the reliable, like how reliable
our predictable behaviors are.
Because it is, even for state actors,
even for all the threat actors
and the bad actors of the world,
it is hard to generate virality.
That is just a tough nut to crack.
But the reliable mechanisms that produce virality
is the nature of meme culture.
It's the regenerative, progenitive nature
of ideas and thought germs.
So the way memes go viral
is for every one really funny meme post,
there's a thousand that didn't do well
that you never saw because it didn't do well.
But it took a thousand iterations of that idea
for one of them to become so hilarious
that it spread or so popular that it went wide.
And so the fact that like this platform
is becoming more meme-ish is an advantage
to anybody who understands how that algorithm works,
how that curation process functions
and can pour resources behind manufacturing
and tipping the odds in their favor.
It's not as though that like a state has to have control
over Twitter's servers for them to control
the narrative on Twitter.
That's the point anymore.
We all thought, oh, Twitter files exposed
the internal corruption and now the platform
will never be corruptible again.
That is such a dangerously false sense
of security narrative that I can't emphasize enough
how the platform is orders of magnitude riskier now
because of what they did.
At least the state that we knew was acting
Now the gloves are off and it's an open warfare battlefield
and I'm telling you, we're losing right now
and no one's having that honest discussion.
And it seems to, again, to me,
to the extent I can understand the motivations of Elon
and the people who run the platform,
it seems to me like they either don't care
or they're oblivious to it.
So anyway, that's the sort of primer for the space
and I'm happy to answer any questions people have.
And obviously, hopefully the space
will see some form of success.
This is also an experimentation for me
being one of my first spaces back,
being some of the things I've been doing
for the last couple of weeks,
just priming my own algorithm.
This is an experimentation of sorts.
Hey, Josh, what's Google's AI called again?
I'm seeing all these posts where you'll be like,
and it's black Mark Zuckerberg
or show me an English like knight or something
and it's like a black, I don't know.
Is it like people blowing up the woke shit?
I saw Elon tweet something about that too,
just like it's too, I don't know, too inclusive.
So people are making that up just for correct.
Oh my God, dude, the farming is sick, Josh.
I'm tempted to literally just start spewing.
But you're in such a vice, that's exactly right.
If that's what's doing well
because Elon's created an environment where that will do well,
it's this anti-woke thing.
This goes to the broader geopolitics of the issue, right?
Why did Tucker Carlson go
and sniff Putin's throne during that interview?
Why did Tucker Carlson go to Russia
and pretend like getting groceries for $100
is like they're so much better than America
when he knows that the actual average earned salary
is $200 a week in Russia.
So it's half your earnings
is what it takes to survive a week in Russia.
And Tucker is a smart and educated man.
So for him to present it in such a skewed light
Am I saying that Tucker is a spy plant agent for Putin?
No, he's just a useful idiot for Putin.
Putin understands that what Putin has done
is Putin has aligned Russia and Russian politics
with anti-wokeism in the West.
And because Putin is so smart,
he's noticed that because it's no longer
communist versus capitalism,
it's no longer, really, it's no longer right versus left.
Really, it's woke versus un-woke.
And in a woke versus un-woke battle,
the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
And so if Putin is very anti-woke,
if Putin is pointing out all the bullshit
that the far liberal left is doing,
then the conservative right is now aligned
And the conservative right, the real right
and the conservative right is the lack of any principles,
the lack of any backbone.
And they will capitulate and kowtow to anybody
who is furthering their populist agenda.
And right now, the most popular,
the most populist agenda is anti-wokeism.
So this is what we're seeing.
And because that is so compatible
with all this inauthentic,
like algorithmic manipulation stuff,
those types of motives and agendas
are gonna do very well in 2024 on these platforms,
the worst of which being X.
And I can't emphasize enough that like,
all for every CB Doge, for tomorrow,
not all for every whole Mars catalog,
for every Elon Dick Rider account that you see,
they don't understand that while for them,
For them, they're just trying
to maximize their revenue share bag.
They don't realize that they're part,
they are creating the ecosystem
under which weaponization is gonna happen.
And it kills me that I can't get
this message across more clearly.
I went into a space with like,
it was moderated by this guy, Norwood, right?
And someone else, Derek something.
And like, they just were towing that party line.
They were pretending like what I'm saying is ridiculous.
What I'm saying is not ridiculous.
What I'm saying is really easily like explain,
I feel like I'm doing a really effective job
They have this cognitive dissonance that's baked in now
where they acknowledge that what I'm saying is true
would almost be to surrender
the entire purpose of their identity.
Cause they think they're popular for a reason.
They think they've earned it.
And they don't wanna surrender that position, right?
But the reality is they're all just sort of useful idiots
in this broader campaign of manipulation.
And so by aligning that reality
with a lot of what is the current established
successful voices on the platform
is you've made it almost impossible
for anybody to try to correct the issue.
And this is where I empathize
with Elon's of the world, right?
Elon's in a tough spot where it's like,
if he were to completely like just listen to me right now
and start to combat this stuff,
it would ultimately result in a 70% drop of the stats
which would immediately result in 100%
of his advertisers pulling out,
which would immediately result
in the defaulting of his loans,
which would immediately result in the destruction of X.
That's the harsh reality that he's in.
it gets to the heart of to what ends justify what means.
Because does that mean that doubling and tripling down,
he's forever caught in this servitude loop
of creating an even better ecosystem
that allows the inauthentic actors to thrive even harder.
And he'll never escape that ever.
And so it's like, how deep do you go with that
just to tolerate and just to try to survive
when is it time to like correct that ship?
like this is where I have seven because
I don't have the answer to that.
I'm not hosting the space to suggest
that I have all the answers.
Cause I don't, I'm one guy,
but I certainly have the closest,
most accurate diagnosis of the issue.
And I would welcome more minds,
more thinkers and more problem solvers
to help me solve the problem
because I can't do it on my own.
And again, not to make this about poor,
but just as a canary in the coal mine,
like when you look at my account,
I've never purchased a follower in my life.
I've had my accounts since 2008.
I've been verified since 2010.
So I've been verified for 14 years.
And what all that's changed during those 14 years
I've been just as pragmatic.
I've been just as transparent.
I've been just as popular as always.
But what's changed are the goalposts.
The degree to which my type of content
is successful on a platform
eroded infinitely to zero.
ridiculous reductive posting is popular,
which I've never participated in,
the degree to which that succeeds in the platform
and because I'm ethical and authentic
and authentic and I don't do subversive behaviors,
well, those are all the behaviors
that are rewarded right now.
So I don't get rewards anymore.
And so you can use my account as a case study, in fact.
I'd be looking at my account to go,
well, this is one of these consistent motherfuckers
that's just seen his engagement fall of a cliff.
I would get tens of millions of views on my posts
and now I get 30,000 views.
I didn't change in that 12 months.
I'm serious, yeah, Chelsea, it's that bad.
I haven't changed the way that I post
in a world in which really high quality,
valuable perspectives is cherished and rewarded,
my content tends to do very well.
But in a world where that is not rewarded
and instead Elon memes are rewarded,
my content does very badly.
Is this correct pronunciation, Josh?
I'm curious, you mentioned a problem,
solving a problem, so I'm kind of problem solver myself.
So I'm curious, what is the problem you were referring?
I want to share something very quickly about engagement.
I'm not sure if you join spaces
about algorithms related with X.
I was recently in a few of these.
there were two or three ladies
who were active on the community outside.
And there were other people who were creating software
to track and see engagement
and how the algorithm punishes
and punishing is punishing
or not punishing different activities.
And what they found out is that
if you engage with negative posts,
yeah, that's a bad thing.
Also, they said if people engage in your post,
it's really weird at the moment.
Sorry, I didn't, I didn't.
We didn't talk about this yet,
so this is a great point, Nicolet.
Thank you for bringing this up.
One, wouldn't it be useful
if there was a button you pressed right now
that says bring me up to speed?
And because for the last 15 minutes,
I already talked about this, Nicolet.
And if you click the button that says bring me up to speed
and there was an inferencing engine
that was listening to the whole thing
and it just spent out a summary,
you'd immediately have your answer
and then we wouldn't have to retread so much ground.
I will retread some of the ground real quick
Two, so the problem we're talking about
is that this algorithm is so weaponizable,
it's so manipulable because they open-sourced it
So threat actors, bad actors,
anybody who wants to manipulate the algorithm
either for benefit or for subversion
if they're gonna target somebody to subvert them,
no longer is it like some employee at Twitter
that clicks a button that puts you
into a shadow band category.
Now it's anybody in the public can go on the black market,
can engage with these botnet services
and can effectuate a shadow band,
can basically impose a shadow band on any person
by just repeatedly targeting their account
and their content with different techniques,
either fake reporting, fake muting,
things that put deboosting flags
on certain pieces of content.
One of the techniques that you just alluded to
that I hadn't covered yet, which I'm gonna do now,
is the engagement and replying of other people
So yes, it is true that if I start engaging
with a certain profile of people,
let's say I start interacting
with a lot of the fake NFT AirDrop accounts.
Well, if a lot of those fake NFT AirDrop accounts
are all flagged for being inauthentic,
then because my interaction with them is on the increase,
I'm now, it's kind of like a lookalike profile
They apply a sort of assumption
that, oh, I am like these accounts.
my account now gets treated like that account.
And this is particularly important
when it comes to deciding what accounts
to show partner ads alongside of.
So if I interact with a lot
of white supremacist accounts,
well, then I will be disqualified from ad revenue sharing
because there's not a lot of advertisers
that want ads showing up next to that kind of rhetoric.
And this happens whether or not
I'm directly posting white supremacist content myself.
If every day I go and reply to accounts that do do that,
I will inherit the bad reflection of their status
just because I've interacted with them.
Because people will go, well, they just don't do that.
No, you don't have to do that.
The problem is you can be tricked into doing that.
And this is happening to me all the time.
If you look at the people who at reply me,
and I can sense it coming out because I have software,
but like the way that they do this
is they will choose to slip into your mentions.
And because you are so desperate
to get interaction and engagement,
you will reply to their mention.
I love the content you're making.
And you hit the heart button on one of their tweets.
You just hearted a white supremacist account.
And you didn't realize that
because you don't have the time to go in
and investigate every mention you get
to see what kind of profile they have.
So this is another way that you weaponize this technology
is you take a group of accounts
that you know are shadow banned.
And then you use those accounts
to interact with the target you want to inherit.
You want your shadow ban to metastasize too.
And then completely unwittingly,
that target will start interacting with their mentions
because they think they're people of their community, right?
And Trippie and Josie and Sonny,
where all of those threat actors,
all those hacker motherfuckers were coming in my spaces.
This was what they were doing.
Anytime I gave them a co-host,
and I can inherit with that.
Oh, I retweeted somebody.
hey man, try out web requests.
Guess who some of the loudest supporters of web requests
and the products I made became.
They became the worst accounts
to have supporting your technology.
So if all of the accounts that talk about my technology
and my startup are white supremacists,
it looks like I have a white supremacist product.
And the algorithm materially reacts to that.
So do you start to understand
how this can now be weaponized at any level,
So now anybody who becomes the target
can be censored by any organized,
motivated group that wants to do that.
now the most authentic, most critical thinking of us,
I'm going to put myself in that category,
not for humble brag purposes,
I'm one of the ones who figured this out, right?
I'm one of the only ones talking about this.
So I think I belong in that category.
I understand what's happening to me.
And I understand, I know exactly how to beat it.
I have to compromise my ethics
and get down in the mud and do the same fucking thing
and perpetuate the problem.
That's the only way I succeed in this world.
So what you're doing is you're creating an environment
where the most ethical among you
and become part of the problem.
That's what we're doing is we're creating a toxic,
reductive loop race to the bottom society.
Now apply this mentality to society.
And that's what we're doing to society as a result.
And you mentioned some great points
and thank you for sharing that in detail.
I think that the worst thing is
it's actually the opposite of what Elon is trying to do
because if you know that,
especially it's gonna be well known by people
in the next few months, this is going to spread.
And everyone who is creating content,
especially who is creating content
with the purpose of business, et cetera,
especially if you're a brand already
and you're a business or a personal brand,
well, that will discourage you
from interacting with those people.
And these are a lot of people.
And also some of these people are not necessarily bad people.
They might be journalists or something else
that are accounts that are being shadow bound
And what you incentivize rather subconsciously
are treating and programming people is,
well, do not communicate with other people,
ostracize other people, segregate other people.
And the actual idea was to be the town square
Where anyone has a voice, even the bad people, right?
Because sometimes you wanna hear your enemies
because if you know what they're speaking,
sometimes they're gonna sleep
and you will know what their plans are
So you need to be able to communicate
with everyone and anyone.
But this is actually the poor opposite.
And what will happen is instead of,
let's say some of these accounts
are spreading bad information or they're twisting history
or some other facts that is right here, right now
and everyone can check it and see, well, that's false.
And if you want to engage with that content,
well, if I engage with that content,
I will be, as you mentioned,
I will be getting mud on me, on my account.
Well, here's the paradox, right?
Nicolay, please understand, I don't know you.
So I'm not accusing you of anything.
But I wanna use this as an opportunity
You are saying very agreeable things with me.
By the way, anybody manipulating this platform
effectively would understand
and be able to say these things too, right?
Now, let's say you don't have a verified account,
you have an account that's very young
and you are in here talking like I want.
I'm starting to like you, I'll follow you back,
I'll applaud, I'll give you applauds when you speak.
Again, signals to the algorithm that I like you.
Let's say though, on a daily basis,
you're actually one of those accounts
that is here to muddy my account.
You're one of those accounts that is on a daily basis,
that negatively attract negative behavior.
And now you come into my space,
you talk like me when it matters,
and I start to say, yes, this guy's awesome.
And I start interacting with your posts more because of it.
You've just infiltrated me.
You see how effective it would be, guys?
Just for argument's sake,
let's pretend that's what this guy is doing right now.
I would have no defense against that.
And it forces me to either paranoidly isolate everybody
and reject the Nicolays of the world
because I suspect him, right?
Either I become extra suspicious of everyone,
in which case I isolate myself,
mission accomplished, you shadow band me.
Or I accept the Nicolays, I trust them,
they actually do the thing that I was paranoid about,
and I'm shadow band anyway.
It's a lose-lose scenario for me.
Yeah, that's the problem with this technique.
But do you see the problem, Chris?
And I was the first time I heard this one month ago
where bots or people can simply come on your post.
You're just posting your daily content
and some bots decide to come to reply to your post
and all of a sudden you're shadow band
because people engage with your post, which is the idea.
And I think maybe you covered this or we've covered this,
but I think part of the problem is the code
that they have old code from Twitter.1.
And I think that might be one problem.
And something else, also,
I'm not sure if you talked about this,
but I've been in spaces, we talked about that,
where Grok and the algorithm collects the very audio
And so that is probably also used in some way or form.
And also in one space we were talking about,
just to give that as a sign-not,
spaces that are not recorded.
Because I've been in spaces that are not recorded
specifically for AI, where people just want to communicate
and they work in companies that in open recorded space,
if they use their name in their company,
they might get in trouble.
So they want to be not recorded
and be able to discuss AI technology
and sometimes crack a joke.
And some of these people that I met,
some of them said that they were testing
whether that is being recorded or not by Grok.
And kind of these speculations,
they kind of find out that it's highly to be recorded
and to have a result in Grok, if you ask it,
Which is unlikely, I think,
but at the same time they said just,
At the same time, someone who was,
I was talking with them in a open big space
that they were talking exactly what you're talking about,
X, the algorithm, the shadow banning,
and they said, oh, we don't agree with that necessarily
because it's more speculation.
But at the same time, they were talking,
when they were talking about the task,
they said explicitly, it said in the terms of service,
that any audio, even not recorded,
is being held for 30 days or something like that
So they are actually having it.
I'm an AI engineer and researcher by trade.
So I can speak to this very, very knowledge of me.
So right now, if you go and enable the captions,
you'll see that they don't perform
the way that they did a year ago.
It takes a few seconds after you're done
with sort of a thought before your transcript will appear
and it appears all at once
instead of one word at a time.
Before it used to be like one word at a time
and it would just be pretty much real time.
There'd be about a half a second delay or a second delay.
Now it's like a five second delay
after you finish an entire thought, boom,
all your text gets transcripted at the same time.
The reason why that is a sudden change
is because they just made a switch
probably about a month ago to inference with Grok.
So this was not the case the whole time.
So back when like people were doing these research studies
and like testing this out,
Grok had no knowledge in the spaces.
It would hallucinate your answers.
So like if you were to ask it,
hey, there's a space titled,
let's talk platform manipulation and censorship
starting at five, please RT.
By the way, I'm gonna change that title now.
And you asked it, can you please summarize
what the conversation was?
It would hallucinate a response or a summary was,
it would guess what we were talking about
and oftentimes it would get it right.
People didn't realize that they was just hallucinating
based on the title of the space.
It didn't actually listen to the whole thing.
Surely though, like I said, it would be great
if there was a catch me up to speed button
that summarize what the conversation was before you joined.
Yes, they can totally do that.
And it looks like they have the opportunity now to do that
because they are in fact doing
internal local inferencing.
To what extent that is currently wired into Grok
is I haven't really tested it lately myself.
I would seriously doubt if that is trained yet
and has access to the spaces quite yet,
but that's clearly the direction they're headed.
And then yes, strictly speaking from the TOS standpoint,
absolutely even non-recorded spaces
are retained for legal purposes for 30 days
The way they went when a non-recorded spaces
archive guys even deleted spaces.
Let's say that you recorded the space
then you hit the delete button.
It doesn't actually delete it from the servers.
It puts a delete equals yes entry in the database
that just says, hey, this is labeled deleted
so no longer show it on the platform,
but it's still the file is still there on their file system.
So all of that, what you said is true
in the sense that it's theoretically capable
and certainly is where they're headed,
but to what extent it's currently live, I would question.
But like, yeah, so you roll in the autonomous AI
capabilities and future into this problem
and it starts to get terrifying the extent
to which this problem is going to manifest.
On LinkedIn and other platforms, Reddit, whatnot,
there is similar manipulation that happens,
but it's all very limited
because they have an open source, their damn algorithm.
So like Elon under the guise
that this is gonna make it impossible to be corrupt
just ended up creating the most corrupt platform.
And it's so frustrating that nobody has really gotten,
and anybody who tries to speak about that seemingly
gets the most shadow banned by it.
And it almost is like this aligned.
So whether Elon is deliberately doing that
and it's like part of that censorship or not
is hard to say, but it sure looks like it.
What you mentioned, they were talking exactly about this.
They had some bigger accounts, I think bigger than you,
but one account was just someone
who is related with news and politics.
And they said that you should be careful
what you talk about X spaces and everything related with X
because it's probably going to be giving you bad points.
So they were saying they were testing it.
Yeah, Adrian brought that up one time.
Well, yeah, so by the way, he's a huge part of the problem.
I was going to ask, did he infiltrate Elon?
Like literally Elon follows him out.
He introduced his mother to him.
He was talking to his mom and he was like,
oh my God, he was like, I can't tell the difference.
Adrian different is one of the proprietors
of this manipulation that I've been talking about.
He's one of the central ring leaders
of those active organized campaigns.
Like he's part of an organization.
That's not his real voice.
He lied Elon's face saying that this is just,
oh, this is the byproduct of being J.R. Jervin
and learning English from a Western speaker.
I've known Adrian for years.
I've known him back as an NFT grifter.
His real voice is not that.
He has about a hundred voices.
The guy is a professional voice impressionist,
which means that he sat there practicing
for months his Elon accent.
And if you go back to some of the recorded spaces
from years ago, which sometimes they stick around
by the way, they don't delete the recordings all the time.
So you can find some old ones.
You'll hear, he sounds different.
So like, and you'll also.
Oh, he was doing impressions, Josh.
He did this American accent so good.
I was like, holy shit, you know what I mean?
No one realizes that this is just who he is.
And he's a very deceitful person.
And he's deploying that tried and true sort of Russian tactic
of like accuse the other side of the thing you're doing.
So he accused me of being the guy
who's doing all the platform manipulation.
He accused me of using DDoS botnets and stuff,
which is just what his group does against me.
So like, and what he does is he creates this,
he preempts the accusation.
So it looks like I'm just like jealous, envious of him.
And it's like, so it's a distressingly effective tactic
and it's working at the highest level.
Whether Elon is like deliberately collusive
or not with the guy, worst case scenario,
it's demonstrating how even on what we consider
one of the brightest minds of humanity,
Well, I think when that article came out
about Elon's burner being Adrian,
Elon had to kind of react to that and respond to it,
but not directly to the media.
And that was what Adrian's goal was, by the way,
That was for months, like all last year
when Adrian was sort of rising in popularity,
what he was doing, it started preying on women.
It's the twin flames thing.
So women really think that Elon Musk
is their twin flame, their soulmate.
And so there's a huge network of scams,
multimillion dollar business every year
of defrauding women who think that they're falling
in love with Elon and then Elon convinces them
they need to send him money for some reason.
And women are so infatuated that they don't realize
why I would have built multi-billionaire
and acquired my money, but they do.
They send him thousands of dollars.
And so it started as that.
And what Adrian did was he very rapidly,
as best I can tell, I'm not in his head,
I couldn't tell you what his motivations were for sure,
but it would seem as though he recognized very adeptly
that there's a more lucrative, less risky,
less short term, because eventually you defraud enough women,
you just get your account suspended,
So I think what he realized was,
oh, this is working with the Elon Dick riders,
where like the Elon fanboy reply club,
they are so conspiratorial minded
that they think there's a real chance
So I'm gonna lean into this idea that,
oh, this could be Elon and he's just,
he has to get his message out
because the establishment media won't let him
on his main account, the advertisers before revenue.
So he created an alternate persona and it's clearly him.
It sounds identical to him.
And so what Adrian would do
is anytime somebody would ask him point blank,
He'd go, no, of course not, ha ha ha.
Like he would just, he would say no,
but he would do it with a wink wink.
And so like strictly speaking,
did he violate the terms of service?
No, but he's effectively obviously leaning
into the conspiracy that this is his alt.
And it just made him skyrocket through the charge
for no reason, and again, he's a criminal,
he's a very bad person, toxic, toxic, bad person.
And yet he's one of the most successful people
And that's what I'm saying.
I've got demonstrable proof chains, evidence chains
of this technique working at the highest order levels.
And to what extent, and again,
you better have a good point again, Nicolet,
which is this is massively like rewarded.
Like these are the people, it's only people
who are actually getting any significant revenue share
and meaningful revenue share are these people.
It's forcing everybody to either participate in it
or just accept the fact that I can no longer
have success in this platform.
My audience in this platform was my biggest asset
And in the last year, I've found
that this is my least valuable platform,
And I didn't change one bit during that time.
The world changed around me.
By world, I don't mean the real whole world.
I mean just this ecosystem changed around me.
And that's terrible to me.
And I'm not the only one.
I'm just certainly one of the loudest, most persistent,
most stubborn one that won't capitulate
and throw in with what the rest of the people are doing.
And everyone around me I'm seeing is doing that,
including some of my friends,
people that I consider friends, just to go, you know what?
You're right and you know what?
I'm just gonna not be so stubborn as you
and I'm just gonna start participating.
And they succeed and they're rewarded for it.
Josh, you were right, dude.
When you called out that AI generation
for heinous sexual acts and stuff,
that one girl, Bobby, I can't say,
Altoff or whatever, that one interviewer girl,
it looks fucking crazy real.
Coming up with the presidential election,
you're gonna get shit like that, dude.
Get someone saying something crazy.
And then dude, if you get enough people pushing that
on Twitter, you're not gonna think.
And you know, like I see people post,
And it's a fake image of an image that came from a reader,
like an AI generator or something like that.
Yeah, it creates just a scenario.
And in a world where you can't tell,
in a world where everything is equally confusing,
then nothing is not confusing.
And the chaos, the proprietors of that chaos
the ones that are creating that chaos.
By the way, when we were talking about Elon,
it's actually easy to attack him this way
because he's actually showing all of his weak spots,
especially after he's being so overworked
and anyone who can construct an avatar,
like a persona that is liking everything from space,
from AI, from technology,
even playing Diablo 4, making streams as he does.
All of a sudden, he can easily lower his guard.
Also, he can find it funny, he can find it amusing.
And when you do that, that's,
because I'm a hypnotist for a long time,
So that's what you want if you want to hypnotize someone.
Or rather, if you want to influence them directly,
you want to make their subconscious mind come forward.
And their conscious mind, the critical mind, get inside,
meaning that you want to evoke emotions.
Sometimes you can make it hostile
if you want to make negative emotions
and directly affect them that way, but you don't need to.
And so if you put the emotions forward,
the subconscious mind forward,
you can more easily connect with that person
and therefore influence them or appear as you like to appear.
And so I think that this is a weak point he has.
And he mentioned information
that is dated back years ago.
So if he's actually someone who is lying,
that he's actually, this is not his actual voice,
and he's using his ability to mimic a voice,
like impersonation, because I think he asked him that,
or someone asked him, and he said,
no, that's my real voice.
That means he's actually lying.
and you have actual recordings of that person,
and you can combine them, like say in a YouTube video,
that's another, I think that's way more as a fact,
as something real that people can look.
And as you mentioned, if it's a spaces that he had
or something here that's concrete evidence,
you can make a video how you get that voice from there
and actually use it from his account, something like that.
If that's true, I'm just saying like that,
because if that is really true,
if he's lying and he's manipulating Elon in this way,
that in itself is really scary,
and it should be brought to the public eye.
And probably to justice, if it's true,
I'm not familiar with this.
I'm just saying if you have proof,
anyone has proof, should come forward,
because this is concerning, especially nowadays,
using all kinds of altercation,
like programs that change your voice.
Well, let me be clear, I have all that proof.
This is something that I've been doing for over a year now,
and a couple of people in the space have seen this,
that like, I have the tech
that can demonstrate how that works.
And everything that I've said, everything that I've alluded to,
I have like documentable chains of data that, again,
can all be verified if you are X,
you have direct access to your databases,
you can just go and confirm everything that I've said,
look at all the accounts I've said,
confirm the collusive efforts between all of them
and understand, oh my God, this is a huge threat vector.
And actually, this is interesting because you said
you're working with AI, with technology, with programming.
This is interesting for someone who is actually a journalist,
investigative journalist, to be given to such person.
Yeah, I could do this, I could do all of this.
And again, I don't because, hey, one,
it's very difficult, it is not easy to do this.
So that's why it's like only the most motivated people
can figure this out and can hire,
and the most wealthy people can hire engineers
And they piecemeal it, so no one engineer understands
what they're doing and how it's gonna be deployed.
They fragment out the assignments, right,
But yeah, the problem with investigative journalists,
I've been in the DM boxes of a lot of journalists,
some of the ones that are in Elon spaces.
Nobody wants to carry this down.
I'm in Forbes, if you Google my name,
you're Josh Olen Forbes, Ethereum Max,
or E-Max, E-M-A-X, Ethereum Max.
You'll see that I'm the whistleblower
behind the E-Max crypto scandal from 2021.
So the way that came to be is John Hyatt,
the author, the journalist,
he wanted to piece together this guy, Russ Davis.
And Russ retrusts crypto,
they're doing a bunch of pump and dump schemes.
And I happened to be in that community doing,
like sounding off on how they were doing
all this insider trading, all this platform manipulation,
all this algorithm manipulation.
And in order, it took weeks.
It took like two, it says it was like four weeks
of me and the author, okay?
So he had to take four weeks of his time chasing down
all of the, probably more, probably like six weeks,
eight weeks of like chasing down leads,
So he had to like go and collaborate
with his internal tech people
to confirm that what my data was real.
He had to go talk to his legal people
to confirm that we can make these accusations,
that there's not gonna be blowback.
Because we're basically saying these guys
did commit a crime and were doing that before.
It's one of the few media,
essentially media outlets that had the balls to do that
before anybody, before any court judgment was issued
that confirmed to the affirmative that that was the case.
Like if you're just covering courts rulings,
then you aren't personally liable
because you're just a media outlet
covering something that did happen.
But the second that they took a risk on me,
then they're also culpable for being wrong
So the problem was, if you read that, you'll see,
now the problem was it took so much time.
That article did such small circulation
As soon as that article came out,
those guys deployed these techniques on social media
platforms to make sure it didn't do well.
I mean, during the Twitter files escapade,
I released what was called the crypto files,
And I can pin up tops of those posts.
If you search my profile, you'll see them.
Where I exposed all the top influencers
for their court, like their,
their collusive participation
in some of the biggest defraud,
financial defraud schemes in the world.
Stuff that like coffeezilla eventually
would make a video on and eventually get invited
on Joe Rogan because he finally made a video about it.
Stuff that like, and by the way,
who only covers a fraction of what I was exposing
My stuff was suppressed with such coordinated,
like efforts that it didn't go anywhere.
I was exposing all the top creators
on this platform right now who are,
who are being rewarded with thousands of dollars a month
in advertising revenue share.
The platform had aligned incentives
to not let my message spread
because it was going to hurt their own revenue
and hurt their image and reputation.
And so again, to what degree people who push X
are collusive in this is anybody's guess.
But I've noticed that it is no surprise
that the stuff I'm saying right now
in this space isn't doing well, is it?
We're not trending in the algorithm charts.
We've had maybe 30 unique people come in
and out of this space so far.
And it's one of the only spaces,
I think in the world that is to such clear granularity
and depth articulated the problem and the poison
and laid out what the problem is
and created a pretext for a solution.
Which by the way, I wanna say,
anybody in here who has an idea
for how we can solve this problem
or work towards solving it,
Cause I've been, I'm exhausted.
I've been working on this for years at this point.
I don't have a clear path forward to how to solve it
without, you know, without cooperation
by like the e-lines of the world.
Yeah, that's a really good point that you mentioned there.
Because I asked this question,
I actually mentioned these things with combining facts
and creating, let's say a YouTube video
or investigative journalist pick it up
because it's an allegation, right?
So you're saying this and you need to back it up.
Oh, sorry, I'm sorry, real quick.
I never finished my point on that though.
I'm not saying that that would be the reason
why they didn't want to do it.
It's not necessarily just the risk element.
Really what the problem was,
is it wasn't financially rewarding
because there was all that coordinate effort
to make sure that it didn't succeed and didn't go viral.
Like it didn't convert any clicks.
And the business of Forbes,
Forbes is no matter which way you cut it,
I mean, I think that they're of the media outlets,
they're one of the more independent
and ethical outlets that remain.
Hell, they took on that story.
But what John Hyatt learned,
I think he got probably demoted for it or something.
Like he started ghosting me afterwards.
Not that they got in trouble.
Like we were completely accurate in our reporting.
But he wrongly thought that that would be a blow-off story.
It would blow the lid off of all this corruption.
And he was an ethical person.
He's one of the few journalists
who like me really badly wanted to expose this.
Not only were we not rewarded for our efforts,
we were kicked in the dicks.
And we paid a heavy price me and him.
to dying on that fucking cross with me.
Like I refuse to compromise my ethics
and it's going to continue to hurt me.
But he probably didn't want to do more stories like that
because it hurt his career and set him back.
He produced one of the least clicked link,
one of the least clicked in the right articles
That's how devastatingly effective this technique is
and why it's risen to such prominence in its utilization.
That's why I mentioned YouTube and other platforms
because it seems that if you try
to do something like that here,
even if it's something good,
like you have everything, you have the evidence
and everything is aligning 100%.
The platform itself, as we talked in the beginning,
it's not going to reward it anyway
because it's kind of negative
because even though you're giving good information forward
and shedding light on something that is shady or criminal,
it's still probably going to be deemed as negative.
Yeah, it's a little bit depressing.
That's why like the coffee's in the way
that coffee's in the way that coffee's in the way
that coffee's in the way that coffee's in the way
Yeah, it's not going to be promoted
or it's going to be the boosted, et cetera.
people will be not incentivized to engage with it
because it's going to tank their accounts as well,
which kind of ties back to why that is so bad
because things like this can go unpunished
and people who can actually broaden these things down
and give people clarity are de-centivized to do that.
So that's why I mentioned YouTube or another platform
where you can actually record
and whoever is the journalist can,
it might be a smaller journalist,
someone who doesn't care and who wants to build a brand.
This actually could help them be their case
that can build their career as well.
So that's my point because if it's really true
and you have the evidence,
I think that you should not necessarily do it yourself
but use the help of others who this is their calling.
They want to find the truth
and expose liars and cheaters and scammers
and also criminals because if that's true
and behind that, if it's not just one person
or an entire organization and you don't know who that is,
that might be, in a sense,
infiltrating even, it's not just Elon Musk
because he directly affects his companies.
His companies affect not only the world
He has government contracts as well.
So it's kinda, I think that the government itself
If that's, I don't know, if that's true
and this is a scam, that doesn't sound good.
It's like a Trojan horse being...
Let me just tell you this.
So there's Nelson Ipega who just started a space.
He's got 250 people in it.
X, talking bots, monetization and more, right?
He's basically exactly what my space is
but he's doing better with it, right?
And I promise you if I ended this space,
went into his and tried to go up and talk,
I would not have any success.
I'd be, the rest of his panel would talk me down
They wouldn't, they wouldn't.
And like, that's another problem is
if I try to go into other spaces and litigate this issue,
it's this coordinated effort now
of other people who control that space
where it doesn't matter how right you are.
One versus three, you will lose the argument.
You can't win an argument against three people.
It's not about the points being made.
It's about the way it's made to look.
It'll look like they all agree with each other
and then the audience will agree with them.
It's a psychological game here
which plays to this advantage.
Now you use this also in a similar vein,
this point you made about using other people
who are the same mission as me.
That's a huge problem because let's take
Coffee Zilla as an example.
Again, I'm not out to sling mud, right?
I don't know where he stands ethically because he ghosts me.
And in my experience, the people who ghost me
are the ones that do not want what I want, right?
Because I am authentic, I am ethical and I know this.
So it's like the ones who don't want to work with me
and collaborate, generally the ones who are either
on the take, on the payroll.
So I'll give you an example.
I tried to give him all this fraud stuff.
I also gave him all this stuff
about this guy named Zach XBT.
He's a crypto investigator who's the most successful.
He's basically me, but is allowed to succeed.
You have to ask yourself, if he's allowed to succeed,
It's probably because he's paying kickbacks
to the people who control those networks, right?
And that is the point is that he is basically a crook.
The what Zach XBT's game is,
is it's investigate the people who are committing crimes.
He finds them and instead of actually exposing
all of them equally, he goes and tries to extort them.
And if they give him half of what they took,
then he doesn't expose them.
And now he's in business with them.
And the ones that refuse him, he exposes them.
And then those people who get exposed,
they're already, they are in fact guilty.
So it doesn't matter if they try to claim
Zach extorted them, no one believes them.
Everyone goes, oh, yeah, Zach just goes,
yeah, that's what everyone says.
And it's like, wow, it's wildly effective.
And on Coffeezilla's videos, he constantly applaud Zach.
He gives him shots at Zach XBT,
one of the best and brightest investigators in the market.
So I'm sure they're going, Jesus, fuck.
Like the most, the people who you would think
I should collaborate with,
they don't wanna collaborate with me.
And there's probably a reason why that is.
And so, yeah, I can't say for sure.
I've not investigated Coffeezilla,
but all of the indicators are there.
That, huh, this guy has never spoken out
against the same people that I've spoken out against.
He doesn't have an Ethereum Max video.
He doesn't have a Saitama Inu video.
He doesn't have a Marshall Rogan Inu video,
all these crypto coins that were scams.
He doesn't have videos exposing the same fake gurus
He only exposes the fake gurus that seem to argue with him.
And it almost seems like the same technique.
So all this is to say that while it seems like
it would be an easy, obvious strategy,
and you just find other YouTube creators,
this problem is the same on that platform, too.
The problem is the same where you can,
while they have an open source of their algorithm,
what X did by open sourcing theirs is kind of gave people
an idea for how other algorithms probably work, too.
And by the way, that is how it works.
That's why at the end of every YouTube video,
like, comment, subscribe, turn the bell on,
because every one of those actions creates
a positive favorable trend and the vector in the algorithm
for helping to float up and surface their content
to more general organic audiences.
And which stands to reason,
the antithesis actions would have negative deboosting
effects, things like reporting content,
reporting YouTube videos, striking the channels.
And so there's a whole underground economy on that platform
as well of trying to deboost your competition,
artificially boost yourself.
And so, like I said, this is not,
I don't want to make it sound like
this is only a problem with X.
This is a problem on social platforms in general,
that it would benefit us if fang companies
would kind of coordinate around solving,
but none of them seem to want to take that first step.
I don't know how to get that to happen.
There are a few ideas I can come up with,
but it's 1 a.m. here, my brain.
That's why I asked, the first question was the problem.
Because there are many ways that you can solve
such a problem, especially the bigger the account becomes,
if it's really a scam, so you can kind of easily,
well, it's not easy, of course, it's not easy,
but you can find ways to expose them more easily,
especially why I'm saying this is because
the bigger the account, the more successful,
especially if the target they have,
the biggest target they have already is under their spell,
the more easy for them to drop the guards,
the more easy to get arrogant and confident.
And that's when you can take them down, if you know how.
So why I'm saying this is this is a really good principle
in comment, that comment have.
Comment comes from confidence men and people
who actually cheat other people
who are actually creating,
some of them make magic as well.
I learned it from the magic perspective
because I also do magic for a long,
like over a decade as well,
along with hypnosis as hobbies, professional hobbies.
So the best and the core principle of comment is,
and con games is, it's actually a question,
who is the easiest person to manipulate in the world?
Who is the easiest person to manipulate
and to fool in the world?
Uneducated, poor, uneducated masses.
Hmm, interesting, interesting.
Well, anyone else on stage want to try their guess?
Who is the easiest person on the world
to fool and to manipulate?
The answer is probably yourself.
Exactly, the answer is actually
the one you see in the mirror.
So the moment, even that's where some con men
who are actually experts can be tricked,
who know the game, who know everything.
So the moment, so it's the person you see in the mirror,
meaning yourself, as you mentioned, Josh, and then.
So the moment you become so confident in yourself
that you cannot be tricked,
you're already easy target
and you already be able to trick
because con men and con games,
as I mentioned, come from confidence.
So the idea is when the moment you become confident
is the moment they get you.
It is infinitely easier to fool a man
than to convince a man he's been fooled.
Yeah, yeah, I just mentioned that as,
to give you a perspective, not necessarily to answer,
to solve the problem, but that's one way.
And if you, depending on-
No, I think it's a really interesting point you make
because it does speak to, like I said,
I'm presenting a problem here in this space.
I'm open to proposing solutions.
I have ideas for how to move in a direction,
but this is a great contribution you've made
because it's like, you know,
if we do have to resort to sort of guerrilla warfare,
if you will, if it's gonna prove impossible
to get platform level support behind abating this problem,
then yeah, how do we, as maybe a resistance movement,
try to fight back against this
and effectuate positive change?
Because more broadly than just me personally,
of course, I am an entrepreneur, I run startups.
I would like to have less targeted manipulation against me.
That would benefit me greatly.
I would get off of the couch that I'm staying on.
I would stay, I'd be able to afford a car.
All the things that I think are normal quality of life
especially if you work as hard and honest as I do.
But beyond that, we are creating a world
in which I don't want to live in
because I don't wanna have kids in,
I don't wanna have a family in
because it's going to be a bad future
if we don't fix this problem.
So definitely beyond my personal incentive here,
it's like, I badly, badly, badly think this is important.
By the way, Josh, not to interrupt you,
but came to mind before I forget it,
like I said, it's 1 a.m. here and I'm sick in a row.
So here's something else that it's good
to have it as a perspective, not only in this case,
but in general, when you face other problems,
How to approach and how to look at them is,
sometimes try not to make it personal
because as you mentioned,
people especially the bigger they become,
the more unique they are,
like in this case, using their voice, et cetera.
It's hard to go up against such an opponent,
even if they are the one who is the criminal,
as you mentioned, criminal, deceitful, et cetera,
because they are a human being
and people sympathize with people.
So instead, what you should do is go after the scheme,
after the thing that people are using,
and this way you're hitting not just one person,
you're hitting everyone else who is using them.
No, no, I hear you, to be clear,
like let me be clear, right?
The reason why I use me as an example
is because I know about me.
I understand, like this is the most obvious
like talking point that I can most accurately
The problem, the paradox here with what you're saying,
because I agree with you,
the second that I use myself as the example,
it immediately gives the other side this opportunity
to make it seem like I'm just jealous
that it's just I have a personal dog in this race.
So in an ideal world, I would have a meet
It would be happening to Radu down there and listeners,
or it'd be happening to Chelsea,
to a degree to which I could diagnose
and I could go, hey Chelsea, this is your problem.
Chelsea is the example of the victim of this.
We need to protect the Chelsea's of the world,
but the problem, the paradox here is that
because of how effective this technique is,
I never discovered the Chelsea's.
I never discovered who else this is happening to
because while it's undoubtedly happening
to a great effect to other people,
the very nature of it being effective
means I don't get to hear about their story.
It's hard for me to discover them.
It's hard for me to make that story known.
So the only person's story I have is my own
and I put my own story out there as broad as possible
in the hopes that other people listen to it,
in hopes that one of the other people that it's infecting
goes, oh my God, this sounds familiar.
And then like also bands together in time center.
So you need to expose the structure
Maybe the variations as how it's used.
And maybe people, you can give directions,
kind of lead them to an obvious conclusion
where you don't necessarily say
that's a person who uses that scheme,
but you make it so that they combine one and one
So there's this guy, Nord Trades in OR,
Nord Trades that Coffeezilla has been exposing lately.
I follow Coffeezilla just because he's one of the people
who I think is of the same ethics
of being in the same mission,
but again, I can't get a read on it.
I haven't been able to, I'm not a YouTuber.
I haven't been able to really investigate the guy thoroughly.
But the point is he's been exposing this guy to OR Trades.
Oh, and I've been trying to understand his effectiveness
because if he is just actually authentic,
then he's highly effective with it.
And of course, it seems to me
that he's combining showmanship, entertainment.
He makes these videos where he's in the Million Dollar Studio
and he very much is charismatic in that way that I'm not,
in the sense that I'm not gonna, he's an actor.
He really is an actor, but on top of which
is accurately exposing accurate scams.
So this Nord Trades guy is this fake guru who's 19 years old
who says that he turned $200 into 2 million or something.
And he's selling this aspirational path
that anybody can do this.
Just subscribe to my Hustle University
and you'll be fritched too, right?
And so Coffeezilla has been exposing this kid.
One of the things that makes his,
to Coffeezilla's video so successful
is that this kid will have a call with him.
He'll say outlandish things.
The reason why is because Nord Trades is a fucking idiot.
Nord Trades is not the architect
behind complicated vast networks of influence
The ones who are, like the Adrian Dittmans of the world,
they don't get into it with me.
He slipped up one time on stage, called me a terrorist,
and then he got kicked out of a room and he made one mistake
and he never made it again.
And so he doesn't engage with me because he,
it's impossible for me to make my exposés
as entertaining as Coffeezilla's
because my targets aren't the idiots
who would be dumb enough to give me good content.
My targets are the ones who know better than that,
and who don't make mistakes.
So I don't have remotely as compelling of a story
because the people who are actually doing
what I'm talking about are real talented fuckers.
They're real professionals who don't mess up like that.
is only having the raw evidence to present.
But the evidence is so convoluted.
The evidence is so densely packed
and it's so well laundered
that it makes it really hard for anybody to follow.
It makes it hard for without like a more compelling
sort of reality TV show style narrative.
It's really hard to follow all that material
because it's like just trying to go watch
an advanced level economics class from Harvard University.
It's like that video on YouTube
is not gonna get very many views.
this ties back to the beginning of,
well, not the beginning of the conversation,
but when I was mentioning someone else to help me with this
because from what I gather,
this is not your focus content, right?
Exactly, so it's actually, even if you're right,
it kind of hurts your engagement.
People are like, okay, that's cool,
but I'm here to hear about companies,
entrepreneurship, business, how to win that.
and I want to learn about this,
not some scams or stuff like that.
No, I see the point you're making.
You're making a good point here.
No, it's like, I see it like this is a passion for you
because you see it hurting other people
and also affecting you as well,
directly or indirectly and other people as well.
And so it's something that you should focus it
on your spare time when you're discussing it
in spaces like this, for example,
or maybe with people you trust
and then with them, communicate that
and find people who are actually there
for being journalists who are actually there
and their content is focused on that.
So their whole day is, how can I expose this?
How can I track the money?
Let's say if it's related with money scam,
how can I connect the money, like follow the money?
The famous saying, because it's always true.
How can I follow connection between these people?
How can I track voices, audio, video,
and I'm not just speculating like talking
about something without any evidence.
And so if you connect with people like this,
you're having your focus on the strategy on,
as you mentioned, you're having on understanding technology.
So you can find the clues, you can help them with that,
help them with big picture things
and there could be the people who are actually taking it
to the ring, taking it to the masses
and this way you provide them with content.
But at the same time, you have your problem,
not necessarily solved right away,
but put under the light of the sun.
It's a really good point you're making
and to your credit and also to Dr. Kalki Zilla's credit,
it's entirely possible, if not probable,
that his problem, like look at it from his perspective, right?
One of the reasons he might be ghosting me
is because he understands that what I'm presenting him
is too dense and he goes, you know what?
This isn't gonna help my business grow.
I'm just gonna focus on the stuff that is still bad,
like with Northridge is still a fucking crook, right?
He's still a piece of carpet.
So Dr. Zilla is still making good content
and the Zach thing, he might incidentally
does not realize that Zach is that corrupt, right?
So like there's absolutely explanations
that don't lead to Kalki Zilla being a corrupt motherfucker
that could also just align with what you're saying,
which to your point would be like,
I think it would be great if he would,
if he could like put some time,
people like him could put some time
to understanding the complexities of what I'm saying
and they're the creative minds who understand
how to present it and tell that story in a way
that I don't know how to.
And they could do it to an audience
that is there to consume that content
where my primary audience probably isn't there
So yeah, you're making good points here.
Also, you can, when you were talking, two things.
One is I'm not sure this guy,
you're talking about how big he is.
Sometimes people who do this
and they're on the right track, they're growing.
They probably prefer not to take something
that was mentioned, it's a little bit bigger,
requires more time, more effort for them
They probably would prefer to become bigger first
if they're already on the path of becoming bigger.
So they don't want to jeopardize their success.
which means you should be focusing
not necessarily on these accounts
and not necessarily think that it's not gonna happen.
Maybe it's gonna happen in half a year or in one year.
And the second thing is collaborations
or rather if it's really something you're passionate,
you want to solve this problem
and it's really affecting your business or something else
or someone in your vicinity or friends and coworkers,
what you can do is collaborate.
And what came to mind was Pegasus, I'm not sure.
That guy who they made a movie for child trafficking
that everyone tried to push back,
which is kind of ridiculous.
Everyone should be for that
because that's fucking scary thing
and we need to eradicate this.
But that guy, he was ex-Navy CEO or something like that
in the USA military, if I'm correct, I remember properly.
And he went out chasing bad guys,
but he also has a network that helps him do that.
I'm not saying to collaborate with them, but you could.
And so what you can do is say,
hey guys, I can help you, this is my expertise.
I can help you write software
or help your software become better
so we can track bad guys.
And here's in return, you can help me with this thing
that I think this is a scam, this person is a criminal
and I have proof, can you work on that?
So in a way, you are also helping them with your expertise.
You are not wasting your time trying to be a journalist,
investigative journalist or someone who catches bad guys.
And also they will do their part.
they're probably related with law enforcement,
specifically that guy that I'm talking,
they're connected with all the countries in the world
or most of the countries in the world
and are related with legal departments
So they not only have access to things,
but they can gain access to restricted areas
and information, surveillance, et cetera.
If that person is really a high risk
and what you're presenting to them is valid proof.
And so this way, you also are not going to be the person
who's going to be the face of this operational collaboration
because you're communicating with them directly, right?
So that's an idea that I'm just giving you as an example.
I'm glad you could join the space.
You mentioned that you're a part of a,
that you, I guess, well, you're a magician
You know, because what I wanted to say is,
you know, what we're talking about here
is in large part like mass hypnosis, right?
It's like hypnosis of the world, in a way.
And so I'm wondering like, if this is,
do you feel like it's your experience and expertise
in that area that is allowed,
you kind of see this stuff for what it is
or to what extent maybe your experience there
might be able to help frame a little bit better
this mass sort of psychosis that's befalling people
or whether it certainly is being preyed on so effectively
with these manipulation campaigns?
Well, they definitely are being used.
I just need to look at what specifically you have in mind
because this is not something I'm kind of looking right now.
I'm entirely focused on actually developing
the first human mind manual.
For example, addictions and habits.
I already have like achieved in minutes,
write something in a piece of paper, proper way.
So you need to use the language,
understand the language and you eliminate it.
But at the same time, to give you an example, yeah.
No, sorry, go ahead, I was interrupting.
I'm not sure it's the same thing
that's happened here on social media,
but it's partially because there are different ways
that you can like brainwash someone,
program things in their mind
and depending on what you want to do.
But there is something that I was really enraged
in the beginning when I was starting
because when I understood how it works
well, I was learning way before that about the human mind,
but so 11 years ago or something, maybe more.
When I started understanding hypnosis,
I saw some clips of these churches,
some in Africa, some in, I think in the United States,
you have certain churches like this
that you have a pastor that makes people like chasing demons
and he makes like a gestures
and all of a sudden like 50 people from the front row
are falling left and right
and he's go away demon and stuff like that.
So he's literally using hypnosis and techniques like that.
And people are thinking that he's having magical powers
and God has come down and true him is cleaning people.
No, that's effectively using hypnosis
and combination of many techniques, also stooges.
And some of these people are being proven
to be like fakes and criminals.
But when I saw that, I was like,
wow, people are so easily fooled.
Of course, when I sat and actually using that
and I saw how easy it is,
well, you quickly understand that there needs to be someone
or something to watch for these things,
especially on social media where young people
are using that without any supervision
is because well, the one thing that I should say here
and that example that I gave is authority.
So this is something you should look at always
when you want to find one of the easiest ways
to find brainwashing propaganda in terms of
changing people's perception and doing it in a bad way
is look at who is being put
in the authority figure and position.
Because in this example that I gave someone in a big,
like how is what in English stadium,
like cover stadium where you have like winter sports,
but it's big and he's on stage.
He's making a gesture saying a few words
and people falling from their chairs left and right.
Why, how is that happening?
Well, as I mentioned, he's using tricks
to directly start speaking to the subconscious mind
of these people and put them in a specific state.
And they are using music, like smells,
the different smells that directly affect the mind.
Also, they use stooges as I mentioned,
they use something that is truthful,
And the key component is that person positioned themselves
in the position of authority.
So he's on the stage, the simple fact he's on stage,
you might not know that guy, but in your mind,
if he's on stage, he probably someone important, right?
So this automatically puts him in an authority position.
Some people would not accept him as an authority figure
just because he's on stage.
If you're more rebellious, you're more intelligent,
If he has dressed in a certain way, a suit,
or maybe something religious,
another cue for your subconscious mind
to perceive them as authority.
And so the moment you put someone in an authority figure,
I will give you examples, your father, your mother,
your grandparents, a teacher, a policeman, you name it.
The moment you put them in an authority figure,
you're signaling to your subconscious mind at the same time
what that person says probably is true
and I might need and probably will follow.
Not necessarily, but the position of authority
And so when they're in a position of authority,
you are less likely to challenge what they're saying.
And even if you challenge it and you need to decide
and you're overwhelmed with stress from your work,
from the scales will tip on the side where,
oh, well, he's authority.
It's a very crucial component.
So this is something to look for.
That's why I said, you haven't given me a specific example
to examine, but look for the authority figure
that is being pushed or it might not be a human being.
It might be a program or something else, or an idea.
And look at it and look where it's leading people
and what is the call to action it gives them.
Can I ask you a question, Nicolay, before we go to Jess,
what is, are you Russian?
Is your nationality Russian?
Then, by the way, yeah, no, go ahead.
Many people think that I'm Russian because of my name,
but in the interesting part is the translation is incorrect
because of the EU translation.
We need to have it in Latin alphabet,
but the Cyrillic alphabet is our own alphabet.
It's a Bulgarian alphabet.
It was created for Bulgarians for Bulgaria.
In Russia, Ukraine and other countries
that use the Cyrillic alphabet,
they use it to form their language.
So the letters themselves.
So that's why people often think that I'm Russian
and well, Bulgaria is very old.
I just think that we need to be a little more concise
and just keep the conversation going.
Yeah, sorry, Jess, go ahead.
So, Josh, what was your question about hypnotherapy
because I did have a few sessions with a hypnotherapist
and a lot of it was more about visualizations.
I'm not sure if you're talking about how we hypnotize
the masses or, I mean, obviously that's not what we wanna do.
It's not, well, hypnosis, it's not a bad thing.
It's not like people, like when they do those shows
with hypnosis, it's like all these people on stage
and it's like, oh, you're asleep.
And then, oh, you're a duck and, oh, you're awake
and now you think you're a duck all the time.
My experience was it was stupidly expensive.
And the guy was like a former CMO.
So it's like living in San Fran,
but he did like walk me through this visualization,
these visualization exercises.
I will say that they were fairly helpful.
I was never like not conscious or anything like that,
but I don't know if it was worth the money
because I haven't done it again, but.
Hey, Jess, yeah, just to clarify something
because Josh asked me about how brainwashing,
how these techniques and hypnosis, mass hypnosis are being
or probably can be used on social media.
I never said that hypnosis is a bad thing.
It's actually amazing thing.
And it's helped many people.
It can be used to do some things
that like modern medicine cannot explain
because if the hypnosis is good enough,
you can actually make your scar disappear on its own.
Well, it's not on its own, it instructs your body
and heal you from some extremely bad diseases
that are incurable in quote unquote.
So it can be really powerful.
Addiction being one of them, as you mentioned.
Yeah, addictions, fears, smoking, weight loss,
I'm speaking that some people
just that are really high specialists
who learn Chinese medicine and not just one thing,
they combine that and can heal people
So I never said that hypnosis is amazing.
And my example was in a religious setting
where they have a huge place where people believe
that the person on stage is being possessed by God
and he's dispelling demons from people.
But actually he's using hypnosis
and other tools that he enforces on these people.
Some of them, like I said, are stooges, actors.
And when you have one to four,
others follow these who are more suggestible.
You have 10,000 people or 5,000 people.
You screen them before they come in the big stadium
and you know who is more suggestible
because someone who understands hypnosis,
greets them, looks at them and says,
oh, this person is easily hypnotizable.
We have also terms for this,
which means if you apply the proper technique,
you can hypnotize him even in seconds.
So they choose people like that
and they put them on the front row.
And so that I gave as an example
how it can be used and how negative it can be
and what to look for for the authority,
how it's set up, not that it's bad.
So the reason why I asked you that originally, Nikolay,
is because let's be clear here,
particularly with Russia and China right now
and other places as well,
but particularly with Russia and China,
there's, I'm just telling you as the researcher
on the front lines of this subject matter,
there's a much bigger majority effort out of those areas
than it was, than there is out of like the US.
It makes me feel like this is the one area
where the US might be and Western nations might be lagging
where so like the way that America exerts
its dominance over the world
or influence over the world
is through its military industrial complex.
The way that we make sure that our oil prices
and we pay a much better price at the gas pump
than say Europe is because we will arm the opposition regime
of whoever is currently in control of those oil fields
if they don't cooperate, right?
That's basically what it is.
We say, hey, you're gonna keep our price stable
or we're going to overthrow you
and we do that time and again
and I'm chuckling for this,
not that it's a funny thing or a good thing,
but just like that is, to me, it's very obvious
that's how we enforce our influence on geopolitics.
Russia and China have not.
Russia, if anything, we've forced them
into a gradual drawdown of their armaments, right?
China doesn't, they can't exert influence
over the US with a military might, no one can.
So they need to use information
and they need to use subterfuge.
So they've spent a long time getting their own influence,
their own agents, their own actors
into corporate espionage positions.
There's a long-standing history of them
basically stealing Western ideas, Western innovations.
And the reason why, let's say China
has industrialized 10 times faster than the US
is because, large part, thanks to the US,
it's because they're able to follow our path.
We were the first nation to successfully industrialize
and they're able to just basically copy us,
take a lot of these innovations from all of our businesses,
avoid the pitfalls that we had to go through ourselves.
And so, of course, they're able to achieve
industrialization much, much faster than us.
That stands very logical reasoning to me.
But one of the ways that they would exert influence
over us, and certainly Russia in the same vein,
is informationally, it's influencing,
it's soft influence, it's influencing ideas.
And so this is why there were a lot of Russian,
Iranian, North Korean, and Chinese state actors
in the underground community, the hacking communities,
and our replete with them.
And the reason why is because that is the only really way
that they can reach out and get their tendrils
into the Western society.
They can't just send a war fleet over like we do, right?
So, in this sense, the reason why I ask the question
is because in this sense,
there just is a larger presence in that way,
looking to influence for their own reasons.
And again, I don't wanna get into the nitty-gritty
of geopolitics, but just to say that this is,
like the alignment, like where the motivation is coming from
and to what end is really of critical importance here.
And it's why we're seeing like that the timing of things
like the Tucker Carlson interview, right?
Was very deliberate, like the timing of that
just before they're going to assassinate
his big number one political rival was deliberate.
And so like when I speak about like mass hypnosis
and mass manipulation, there's a lot of cross over there.
Yeah, yeah, I understand that.
I think that I can't really speak to this
probably on the level that you are speaking to it, Josh.
I just wanted to mention that I've pinned up top
my thoughts on the X algorithm and as it relates
to like a chat GPT and Grock.
And I do understand that chat GPT has,
or opening eye has a different business model with chat GPT.
So, you know, it doesn't really bother them
if you're paying $20 a month, you know,
whether you want to engage with it all the time or not,
you know, maybe it's more data for them
if you've opted to let them use your data
for training or whatever,
but there's not a financial incentive
for them to constantly keep your eyeballs.
Like literally there's incentive for X to
for you not to sleep and have your eyeballs
like develop insomnia and have your eyeballs
So it's, and my, I wonder what you think about
the Grock angle of this and whether we can say,
whether we start to talk about how not fixing X algorithm
is going to make Grock either quadruple in difficulty
because you're basically going to be saying,
we need X and the anti X in Grock to some degree.
What do you think about kind of that angle
of like Grock can never be,
can only ever be as good as the X algorithm.
So change the X algorithm
or accept that Grock is not going to compete.
Well, you know, to the extent that,
well, but before we do that,
maybe I can just recount the room
because we do have some new listeners
on what the point of the space is
with respect to algorithmic manipulation,
because this is going to speak to the way
that LLMs and AI is being deployed
and the proximity Grock has to doing that
because it's built into X.
So like, remember guys a year ago
after X was acquired, we had this Twitter file scandal
and Twitter files was basically revealing that,
oh, there's all this internal manipulation
and manipulate and censor the far right ideas
or right ideologies and make the company woke.
And that was the big scandal.
And so the way that we censored people back then
was that you had internal agents of the company
basically putting their thumb on the scale
and X's proposed solution to that
was open source the algorithm.
it removes any opportunity for impropriety that there is,
because if there was any such mechanisms
that we would be revealed through their GitHub repositories.
And the problem with that was
instead of there being an internal faction
that was able to influence and censor ideas and voices,
they basically open sourced that to the world
where anybody's so motivated.
You and I are not motivated enough to reverse engineer.
I'm just saying you and I have,
but you the average listener is not so motivated
to reverse engineer the algorithm GitHub repos
and understand exactly how each level you can pull
to effectuate different results in the platform.
You're not gonna do that,
but there are motivated factions that will do that.
And then hacking conglomerates and syndicates will do that.
Corrupt NFT motherfuckers will do that.
And so they'll pay engineers to do that.
And cause they have all the money already
cause they're already corrupt, right?
So, and what happens instead
is instead of the company going and saying,
I'm gonna take this account that I disagree with
and I'm gonna make sure he gets no more circulation.
What will happen is any opponent of you,
anybody who doesn't like you for any reason
will just go, you know what?
I'm going to take this account
and I'm gonna go on the black,
with the dark web on a black market somewhere.
And I'm gonna say, I want to acquire,
I want to hire this botnet of compromised old accounts
that have been hacked and stuff
and that are just operating by bots
and by farms of influence people,
negative influence people,
will go and I'm gonna purchase negative engagement things.
And what are those negative engagement things?
It's kind of like purchasing fake likes and fake retweets,
but instead of doing things
that would artificially boost your discoverability,
a opponent to you will purchase things like hide on hide,
hide on hide, hide on hide, leave conversation.
They'll purchase things like fake reports,
report post, report post, report post.
And because they have this network they're purchasing from
has a vast network of bots, bot accounts.
because they round robin through them.
So they'll only do a few fake reports
from each account every day and they'll rotate around.
So it doesn't tip off the fake reporting algorithm
detection scripts that X has.
And so this can effectuate
the same results of shadow ban,
but now if it put that power in the hands of anybody,
anybody can go do that to anybody they want.
And so this is very, very bad.
It creates this incentive
or it creates an arms race to the bottom.
It creates an arms race to just,
everybody has to participate in that
either to defend against it
or to help yourself succeed more.
So even people with just like moral flexibilities
will actually capitulate and go do this stuff.
I've seen it happen to friends
who just finally learned this was happening
and they went, okay, fucking, I'm gonna go do it too.
And I've not, and so I have spaces
with nine people in them instead, right?
But so like this technique is what we're talking about.
And it's not just exclusive to X.
So X has particularly bad
because they open source their algorithm.
But this technique can be used on YouTube,
on LinkedIn, on Facebook, on Instagram, same idea here.
Cause their algorithms, they do have algorithms
while they're not open sourced.
and they're a top competitor tech firm in Silicon Valley,
you can infer that there are similar tech,
like there's similar weighting algorithms
on these other platforms and there are.
So the same idea is if my account,
the worst one is the lookalike,
the affiliation inheriting of accounts shadow bands.
So like if you have a botnet
that is known to post antisemitic content
or racist content or woke content or anti-woke content,
whatever the profile is of that account.
If you engage, if I have a bot form of bad accounts
and I start replying to your content all the time,
the odds are you're gonna eventually like one of my replies.
If I reply to you saying,
hey man, great fucking post,
I love what you say all the time,
If that's what I say to you
and you hit the like button on my account,
well, if my account is a white supremacist account,
then you just got a ding to your record.
You got an affiliation ship point
with a white supremacist account.
And so this is another technique
of weaponizing the censorship is that,
you don't have time to look into everybody
who's engaging with your content.
It's not just that somebody
with a negatively labeled account,
if they keep liking all your posts,
that that will spread to you.
It's not even that simple.
And they might've even removed that part of the algorithm
and thinking that that was the only part of the problem.
That wasn't the only part of the problem.
The other big part of the problem
is when you interact back.
Because I don't have time to research Nikoleil again,
like I said, hypothetically speaking,
let's say you're one of these people
that's come in here to pretend to be my friend,
to pretend to say all the things
that you know are gonna resonate with me.
And I start following you
and I start interacting with your posts.
I don't have the time to look through
your whole account history and be like,
hey, this guy's actually like
probably a pretty negative account
and it's gonna hurt me if I interact with him.
I don't have time to do that
with every person who I talk to and interact with.
So I just take it on face value
that you seem like a smart, trustworthy guy,
you're a nice guy, and I interact with you.
But with completely unwittingly,
knowing that I'm inheriting all of this
negative associations along with your account,
that's the real threat that no one's really talking about
and no one's mitigated yet.
So that's the purpose of the space.
And then so just bring it back around
to what your question was, Jess.
And we'll go back to you.
I read the Nikoleil first, he has his hand up.
But is that yes, Grok, to the extent
that it can be weaponized like this,
is going to be part of the arsenal
of these people who are gonna influence it.
It's gonna have direct access to spaces histories.
So like as we talk and those transcripts
if you turn on the captions, they're written in real time.
Well, that means eventually Grok is gonna be able
to also have that in his memory.
And so you're gonna be able to ask
You're gonna be able to create API bots
that like monitor the spaces,
any space that starts talking about something,
you'll be able to get a push notification
and then you'll be able to send in
autonomous speaking bot that goes into that space
and starts talking to you, starts debating you,
It's another tactic that I've been trying to expose
for over a year now for those of us who are regulars
in my space, is these autonomous agents
that are listening to the transcripts in real time
They go in and listen and then transcribe it in real time.
And any time a space starts talking about
something that they disagree with,
let's say that it's a space talking about pro-Ukraine,
they'll send a Russian dissident to come in
and start fucking derailing it, they'll just start arguments.
They'll start making controversial statements
that get the space banned.
They'll come up and start saying
all of the keywords you don't say
that will autonomously trigger a shadow man.
Like if you start dropping racial slurs,
this space will shut down.
And if I don't immediately kick you from the room
and you drop a racial slur, then this space
will immediately get put into a red flag category
of it's probably a racist space,
So there's entire accounts that exist
just to go in and do that.
And they use AI increasing AI voice generation
to go in and pretend that they're just saying
And if you're a host or a co-host,
and you're not aware of this,
then you just got yourself harp lampooned.
You got yourself derailed.
And yeah, this is terrible.
Wow, that you just mentioned about the slurs
and certain words that can stop this space right now.
I didn't know that that's actually really good information.
Because I'm gonna host basis in the future,
but entirely for people to not need to pay
to a lot of money and be able to do everything themselves.
But what I wanted to add is what Jess was mentioning
about people scrolling here on X and being
like literally like zombies here.
I watched our interview with Jimmy, Mr. Beast,
and he said to the people who were interviewing him,
he was in VidSummit on stage.
And he said, he spends like 15 minutes, 10 minutes,
something like that on YouTube,
was the other one was Instagram, I'm not sure.
And he said, I spent one hour on X
and I cannot get off of it.
It's super addictive to me.
So he said, he's someone who creates content
His whole life is focused on YouTube.
And he's all in on YouTube.
And he said on stage, on VidSummit, I think was it,
on stage in front of people saying
that he spends one hour a day on X
and he's like, he admits like it's addictive to him.
So that's not a small thing.
And he's a busy guy as well.
And as Jess said, the more people are scrolling,
And that's another thing.
So you were asking Josh about mass hypnosis
and different ways of mass manipulation
on people using social media.
It works in real life as well.
It is, as I said, authority.
So you need to get the focus and the attention
Jess, you probably know when you were visiting the hypnotist,
the first thing he tries to do is get your focus.
Look here, do this, to follow his instructions.
And so when you combine these things, authority and focus,
and spend time on the platform, you also build trust.
And when you have authority, trust and focus,
then you can start putting your messages,
subliminal messages, direct messaging, whatever you want.
So that's just something else.
You already know it, but in order to hypnotize someone,
He needs to follow your instructions and be focused on you.
And that's why people who have mental problems,
like I'm not sure, schizophrenia.
I think schizophrenia is in English as well.
They have this mental condition.
They're hard to hypnotize,
maybe some of them are almost impossible to hypnotize
because they cannot focus on you for a long period of time,
just enough for you to hypnotize them.
So that's a crucial focus and attention.
And attention, as we know,
is everything with these language models.
Jess, you have your head up.
Yeah, and Josh and I are hard driven to hypnotize
because we actually go the opposite with authority
because you mentioned authority.
I'm definitely a person who's like,
so tell me more about this fucking authority
that I already hate by default.
But anyway, I want to tell you something about authority.
So you don't fool yourself.
who is the easiest person to manipulate, look in the mirror.
Yes, I am also as well the same by character.
but I also do like authority when it's the proper one
And I see, I should follow that authority.
It's like having a leader, your father, your mother.
So you need to define what authority means
because that's very important.
You do follow authority in your life and you have.
The question is, what do you perceive as authority?
Because in this conversation right now,
Josh is the authority, he's the host.
He automatically have, let's put it this way,
he automatically has one point for authority.
If you click on his profile and you look at the numbers,
he gets second point for authority.
Already two points without you even thinking,
But your subconscious mind does.
And so if your subconscious mind is trivial,
so you have a strong character
and you say, I don't appeal to authority.
Well, if the authority figure
that has been created in front of you
is someone you like, as Joshua was saying,
is someone who is speaking your language,
then you already subconsciously start to like that person
and you allow them to build themselves to that point
where they are already authority
without your understanding that, I don't see.
So why I'm saying this and why I interrupt you,
is when you understand what authority figure means,
it doesn't mean authority as the government per se.
It means everything, not even a person,
it might be God, might be a cat, might be an event.
You can put them in that position.
In a position of authority, you need to understand,
learn what that means for you and how it works.
And then you can see the things
that you already have put in that position
and you be sure that they affect you.
And sometimes they affect you
without you even understanding.
to know what you put in that position
because you can give them attention and focus,
away with your authority,
away with your authority and you oppose it,
you would not allow what they're saying
to come to your subconscious mind
because your conscious mind,
the critical mind is refusing to accept it.
But if you already like that person
who you put in a position of authority as well
and they say something and you say,
And in what they are saying or telling you to do,
there is that what we were discussing with Josh,
there is that nugget of poison or the Trojan horse,
and you don't listen for it
because you like the person,
it's going to go straight to your subconscious mind.
And that's how manipulation on mass level can occur.
And you can see it in history as well.
Sometimes slowly, step by step, drop by drop,
and give directly the brainwashing in one way, in one goal.
But this is something very, very important
to understand what authority actually means.
It's something that you position in that state,
Not a person, not a government.
They can be, but you put them in there.
And you need to understand how you put them,
why you're putting them in that
and who's already in that position.
I think that, I tend to call that like influence
I don't particularly like the word authority,
but I understand generally what you're modeling there
and what you're saying architecturally
when you put somebody in that position,
whatever you call it or whatever.
But yeah, I guess the thing that I wanted to add as well
is just I still see a lot of people arguing
or saying, get out of my feed,
like replying to somebody and be like, get out of my feed
and then like quoting it and be like,
this person's in my feed and fuck them.
And it's like, I don't know how smart
you think this algorithm is,
but based on my experience with it,
what I've seen in the actual code and whatnot,
it's not intelligent enough to like be like,
oh, this person is quoting this
because they hate this other person.
So I'm gonna make sure they don't have to see
this other person as much.
It's not like, and then if you go to like your for you feed
and there's like three little dots up at the top right,
at least that's what it looks like for me,
but you'll see this menu that says at the top,
it says not interested in this post.
And if you click that, it will then further ask you
if you're not interested because it's irrelevant,
quote unquote, which I love by the way,
an engineer clearly made that.
But, or if you're not interested
because you're tired of seeing stuff from the person.
So it's basically asking, are you not interested
because of what the content is?
Are you not interested because of who is,
making this content, creating this content?
And so if you don't wanna see any more like Doge Designer
or Elon Musk or whoever the fuck in your for you,
and if you still wanna fall,
it will also influence the following feed as well, I believe.
So I would just be like not interested in
and then be as accurate as possible
about what you're not interested in.
If you don't wanna mute Elon Musk
but you wanna see less of his shit,
then by all means, say you're not interested
in seeing as much from Elon Musk, you know?
So I just like, we have like all these smart people
that are arguing in replies and it's like,
I mean, I understand that maybe you're trying to get eyeballs
on this high profile reply,
but the same time you're telling the algorithm
that you wanna see more of this, you like this,
you support this, like engagement is engagement.
It's like, are they indifferent or are they engaged?
If they're engaged, that's good.
If they're indifferent, that's bad.
So this is the time to like,
where avoidance or just like ignoring stuff
is good, like if you don't like it, ignore it,
don't like argue with it.
It's my opinion, but that's it, thanks.
Hey, Josh, if you're speaking, you're on mute sometimes
Hey, Jess, I have a quick question.
Maybe you want to answer or not, you decide,
about the hypnosis that you went,
how do you say it, was it successful or not,
Yeah, I think it was successful.
I think that, yeah, I think it was,
I'm not sure how much I wanna share about it,
like on recorded spaces, but.
Sure, don't share if you don't want.
I just was curious if it was successful,
Yeah, mine was not for, it was not for like a specific habit.
I do think it's like highly successful for specific habits,
like smoking, for example.
There are many examples of like podcasters,
particularly that, so I actually learned about this guy
on a Bad Friends podcast.
And, I mean, if people want, if you want to DM me,
I can give you the name, but.
So, and he helped, he worked with Bobby Lee
to help him quit smoking.
I believe he might've worked with like any leader in too,
or that was somebody else,
but she also quit smoking from a hypnotherapist
and so like, if you're trying to lose weight,
if you're trying to like eat healthier,
exercise certain number of times a week,
like all of these very muscle memory sort of
type of habits are really,
can really be effectively helped by hypnotherapy.
Mine wasn't quite that way.
like there's a lot of visualization that happens,
like deep visualization where they're like,
you know, you're closing your eyes and kind of laying back
and they're using their techniques to kind of
help your nervous system relax to a state.
It's not like voodoo or anything,
but it's just like, you know, calming sounds
and calming voice and, you know,
they have you like go through things in your mind
that can help you get to,
so there's an elevator and I'm gonna have you
get in the elevator and we're gonna,
as we descend, as you descend in this elevator,
get to this sort of more relaxed state sort of thing.
So, I'm not saying it the way they would say it
because they're, they need it professionally, but yeah.
The idea is to relax your body so you can focus more easily
and engage your subconscious mind,
which is your, through the imagination is the easiest,
the fastest way to engage with the inner child.
That's why this is occurring
because he is good enough or she,
the hypnotist can hypnotize you
without even talking much and you being with open eyes,
but I just asked them because I was curious to see
if it was successful with you.
Sometimes I see people who use that technique
and they have 30 years experience, they claim that
and they generally don't have much results
They have some results, but that's why I'm curious
because they use it, they see it as, it works,
but they don't really understand what they're working with,
which is the subconscious mind.
Hypnosis is just a tool, it's like a knife or something.
I see you put something on Jim Batron.
Luna wants to speak, I'm not sure.
Josh just stepped away for a minute, but he'll be back
and yeah, we're just going to keep going.
Yeah, so Luna, I'm here kind of.
Hi guys, thanks for the space.
It's been very kind of helpful.
I'm very glad I came across it.
I was wondering, firstly, I had to keep to the topic.
The first question I had was to Nikolai,
could you possibly, if you have a minute,
send me kind of the studies behind that
because from my knowledge,
hypnosis is actually pretty dangerous
and exposed to it can cause schizophrenia.
So I'm not sure which way round it is
because for me personally,
it caused those sort of symptoms.
So I feel like it's probably quite dangerous,
hypnosis, I don't think it should be.
Yeah, I don't think it should be
kind of sold or something that's safe.
In my opinion, I don't know the scientific research,
And then the second question.
So yeah, maybe if you just get back to me on that first
and then I'll ask the second question to Josh.
I can answer this, but the species with another topic,
I'm not sure if I can answer this right now.
Josh, Jess, Josie, you're the host of the conference.
Do you wanna answer it, Nikolai?
Yeah, I can answer it very quickly and easily.
I can send you information, but you can google it.
I'm not working with proving anything to anyone
because I learn it, I use it and learn from professionals.
But I will give you the perspective.
So if you're a true professional,
when you are about to hypnotize someone,
and unless you're a teenager,
even if you're a teenager, just learn that
because you can learn it at any age
and hypnotize anyone who wants to be hypnotized.
So the first thing you should ask is
whether the person has mental illness, mental problems,
has heart problems, is pregnant,
and those are the main ones,
or has some past and taking some pills
that can alter his mind or his state.
So this is the first thing you start before the hypnosis.
this is the one thing that you need to ask them
because yes, you can hypnotize them,
because you don't know what's going to happen.
you're working with a subconscious mind,
you're not working with anything,
if you just hypnotize someone
understanding what hypnosis is,
and not the matter that you're using,
the topic, the actual material that you're working,
which is the subconscious mind,
you're simply having, let's say, a knife or a tool
that you're using blindly,
and you're seeing an effect,
but you're not necessarily understanding
what you're actually doing.
And that's why I mentioned some,
I see some professionals that
not really understand how hypnosis works
and can do some harming to some people.
Not everyone, but some people
who are in a bad situation,
they don't have something that is extremely bad,
but when used improperly,
it can make things worse.
I'll give a quick example and finish here.
And this is the example that I have here
that I mentioned referred to a person
who has 30 years of experience,
diplomas in psychology, et cetera, and hypnotist.
And so a friend of mine went to that guy
and he had problems, mental problems,
and he just needed to release these things
Instead, the hypnotist made him imagine
not invisible, but you can see through a glass box
and put all the negative things in that box
So that, I will translate what that means.
It means that you have garbage
and instead of throwing this garbage away,
you put it into the closet or under the carpet.
And so what will happen is, at a certain point,
this can blow up like a bomb in your subconscious mind.
And all of this is going to get out.
And at the same time, what happened with him
was the guy didn't do it even properly.
He locked some of his emotional sentiment.
And when I was talking with my friend, he said,
you know what, I don't really care
about anything right now, you know?
About anything, I don't feel anything.
He was like in a state where whatever he does,
he doesn't really care much.
So something along that process was improper.
So he put there not only the negatives,
but some feelings that he had related with them
And since the person who was quote unquote professional
didn't do his job, he created more problem
And that's why it wasn't even successful with him.
And it's something simple.
In his case, it was something simple.
And so in this sense, it can be very dangerous
because as I said, it's a technique
that works directly with your subconscious mind.
If Josh will give you the example with computers,
you're giving access to someone,
to your bios and to your operational system,
to your back end program.
And he start coding things directly in your code.
He can mess it up, right?
And so that's really important to understand it.
It's a very, not just dangerous is not the work,
but you need to take it very seriously as a professional,
as a person who is hypnotizing someone else.
And differentiate between having fun
or making changes within that person.
You can do it for fun on stages.
Jess was talking about it on stage for fun
Or you can make changes within that person,
which is totally different thing.
And so it can be dangerous for that reason
because it's direct to your subconscious mind.
It's like you working with the bios
or the programming of a computer.
that mistake will affect many more things
And then you need to go back and fix it.
So that's why it's also both dangerous.
And that's why you need to be conscious about it
or the person you want to be hypnotizing you,
and know that they understand that part,
that they are not just hypnotizing you,
they are working with your subconscious mind.
And by the way, to tie it with what we were talking
with Josh and the actual topic here on the space,
in terms of social media,
even for people who use it to manipulate someone,
The bad thing is they get money, they get result,
but the people who are affected by their crime
in a court or court or deception,
they can develop thinking that in the future,
we will affect them back because it's not one time.
It can, some of these propaganda and brainwashing things
can stay with you as habits and perception
of way of looking at people around you
and communicating and engaging with them.
And that, yes, at this point benefits you,
but things quickly can turn around
and then you might be in the focus of that,
or maybe your children or the people around you.
So that's how we can tie this conversation
Yeah, thank you very much.
That's a very clear perspective.
Thank you for offering that.
Yeah, definitely that opened my eyes quite a lot
to it being kind of a possible tool for health.
Yeah, I mean, I can see, because basically,
this is my story with it, yeah.
When I first discovered it, it seemed like an exciting tool.
And then I kind of rushed into it
and then went to the wrong person, right?
And then just got burned.
But yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense,
I had a second question, obviously, just to answer something
that I didn't, I will message you
and give you a perspective of what you can do,
because hypnosis is like, if you have a number of tools,
this is like getting the jackhammer
or something that is really powerful.
So sometimes that's not necessary.
It's the fast way to do some things.
So you have so many other options
to clear whatever you want to clear
without even touching hypnosis.
That's why I stopped actually using it
and developing things that you can do to yourself
or listening to something.
So I can DM you if you're interested about that.
Oh yeah, definitely, yeah, definitely.
And I'm back, go ahead Jess.
Yeah, so just a few things.
So Luna, if you are talking to a hypnotherapist,
I can tell you that my experience,
I had like a free consultation,
which is pretty standard for any sort of service
similar to that, including that.
So I would recommend trying to do that
and then see if like there's any obvious red flags
But yeah, so this whole lock it in a box sort of thing,
is that the, like, I don't know that I love that,
I, it may work for men's brains better, perhaps.
Or it may work for like, like cigarettes.
Like you could literally like visualize yourself
taking like a pack of cigarettes
or something and lock it in a box
or like alcohol or something like that, you know.
But I, it's just not my fate.
Like, I don't know if there are others,
because you mentioned that one, Nikolai.
And I will tell you that I had some success myself
like I learned several programming languages at once
And I think it really engaged like a certain part of my brain
for like, like many, many hours.
Like I was like intensively learning this right thing
and looking at like Java and PHP
and all these SQL and Python all at once, you know, too.
And so, like, after that time,
it became easier for me to just tell myself, okay, run,
like I've created this program for this and this for this.
So like I had this program I called the Good Enough Program,
which was like identified when like I was like obsessing
over something and like refining it,
you know, when you refine something,
you actually end up making it worse.
Like you peaked with refining it
and then you like ticket it and it's like worse.
So I just run the Good Enough Program
and it would, I would do that for a while,
but interestingly enough, like I,
it activates some part of your brain
that like you're not doing it as intensively.
Doesn't really happen naturally,
but I found that to be more beneficial.
I would prefer that to like locking something in a box
I'm going to have to store this shit.
Like I'm going to have to store like this is storage.
Like, should I pay a monthly storage fee or something?
Like, um, and mine, I guess I'll tell you mine,
mine happened to be like in, so chose Hawaii, right?
Because he asked me like where I've been
that I really loved and where I blah, blah, blah.
And, um, so just kind of like basic,
like I think the process is they choose a relaxing place
to you and then they do this whole like visualization
of going through the relaxation,
get you your nervous system, relax.
And then, and then at some point you just literally open
a box and put the thing in there and lock it.
And you put the key around your neck because you can always
like you're in control and everything,
but it's in this fucking box.
And mine was in a cave in Hawaii.
And so like, I don't know.
I imagined it like got flooded, but I don't know
what happened with all the specific hypnosis experiments.
And just to clarify something before we change the
subject, just mentioned the example with the box
because it's extremely stupid.
I will not call it stupid, but it's the worst thing
or what you can use because this shows the person
doesn't understand how the subconscious mind works.
As I mentioned, he just told your subconscious mind
to take the trash instead of like disposing it
or using it for composting your garden.
He made you to put it in the closet
or underneath the carpet.
So eventually it's going to start to smell, right?
So that is a very ineffective way because you're locking
it already, what are you doing?
Really not, you're just taking the problem
and putting it from one place to another place.
And not only that, but you're-
Yeah, I agree for certain things,
but I think that I wonder if this could be
a successful technique for addiction
because people are, they get so physically,
emotionally, mentally attached to something
that it's hard for them to-
I mean, he also said that I put the key,
I can put the key around my neck,
but I can also get rid of the key at any time.
So if somebody were to lock these cigarettes in a box.
Just this worst, you don't know why?
Because he put the trash in your closet
and gave you the key to the closet
and tell you, throw away the key.
And if you want to remove that trash from there,
So understand that you're working with a topic
that the people who use that technique,
they learn it from someone
and they don't even think about how it's affected.
And that's ultimately my point, Nikole, here,
is that it doesn't matter what the effective technique is.
If that's effective for some people,
all the more power to them, right?
I understand what you're saying, Nikole,
where I don't fundamentally understand
or agree with that as like a widespread approach
to solving something like addiction.
I know that addiction, like one of the key mechanisms
is thinking about whatever it was.
Like if you're a heroin addict,
if you see a movie and you see like a needle
going into someone's arm,
it's gonna bring you back to,
oh my God, last time I did that, it felt really good.
Or any time you even think about it in your mind,
if you just like remember a time
of putting a needle in your arm,
it's gonna give you cravings.
And like, I just saw an interesting documentary,
I think it was 60 Minutes or something,
where there's somebody using sonogram technology sound waves
to like target non-invasive brain surgery, basically,
where they target parts of your brain,
blast it with these high-free sound waves
and disrupt that part of the brain that is activated
whenever you start to see different like images
that remind you of your addiction.
They put somebody and showed them images
they put a heroin addict in his chamber.
And then what they did is they just bombarded
that little like nickel-sized part of the brain
with sound waves and the guy's like foot was shaking
at first in terms of like he was agitated,
he was clearly anxious and he was describing,
they're awake when they're doing this.
And so he's describing like high urges to use.
And then once they turned on this machine,
his foot settled down, he stopped having these urges,
he reported a much like lower desire to wanting to use.
And I thought that was really fascinating,
but that's obviously a more medical approach.
What to describe is, Luma, excuse me,
I don't know of this, but
this is literally torturing your body.
It's like, as I mentioned in the beginning, Josh,
I'm not sure if Jason Luma heard that and everyone else,
maybe I mentioned it to someone else, excuse me,
because it's today I'm here.
So there is a difference between the brain and the mind.
A computer has hardware and software.
The brain is the hardware, the software is the mind.
So what you described is someone frying your brain out
And they don't even know what they removed,
Yeah, you have some relief.
No, by the way, I'm not advocating
for anything in base like that.
Josh, I'm just sharing it with you
because we're talking about technology as well.
That is scary, you know why?
Because some people who have diploma and degree,
they say, oh, that's amazing, we have a result.
You just tortured someone and you call this success
instead of, because I'm working right now
with addictions and habits,
an addiction is actually a habit in its core.
And a habit is something you can affect
within seconds really, but if you want to create it
or remove it, you need a little bit more time,
like minutes to describe it, et cetera.
But you can actually do it in seconds as well
to know how, if you skip notice, for example,
or you're at that level with your own mind.
But you can remove them so easily because it's a program.
You know how you can get into the back end of the program,
choose the code or even write a code to say,
hey, fix this and heal it.
You don't need to fry your GPU or CPU or motherboard, right?
You just need to access the program and fix the fucking bug.
And I see many people who are specialists.
I don't have diploma in that area.
I don't need to, because what I'm developing.
Yeah, I think that certain degrees of addiction.
We have to skip it, Luna, by the way.
I just want to say, I believe that certain degrees
of addiction can become part of somebody's identity.
So it depends on the level of addiction,
but yeah, go ahead, Luna.
That's definitely, excuse me, just to point something
because literally in seven minutes, I removed my addiction.
And this is one of the things I found that I had.
I created this addiction, it was related with sugar
and I cranked it up to the point
where it was an addiction.
I was looking for it, spending money, 100% addiction.
I find so many things actually,
but one of the things was exactly part of the things
that drives not only an addiction,
but the habit as well, is your image of yourself.
And for me was, I love, I love sugar and sweet things.
That is a form of me putting a line of code
I'm someone who loves sugar and sweet things.
And combine this with an addiction,
it's going to amplify it to the moon.
So you're hitting something really important,
your image of yourself is something you can actually
directly change by yourself.
You don't need anyone else
and you can change almost anything, except your character.
Like if you're a character who says away
from you with your authority, you cannot change that,
but you can change how you perceive yourself.
Yeah, I would definitely agree with what you guys said
about addiction becoming part of your identity.
Yeah, recently smoked again, but yeah, I mean,
when I was quitting at first time,
it was almost impossible because it was like part of who I am.
And then when I quit for the longest time,
it required changing my self image.
So that's what I needed to do.
And I found kind of taking up support help with that,
if anyone needs any random advice.
But I also, I mean, I'm really fascinated by,
I'm still fascinated by this point you brought up
with mental health and kind of schizophrenia and hypnosis.
And is it kind of like a superpower
that you can't get hypnotized?
Or is it like the effects of being hypnotized too much?
And it's actually is actually more like a disability,
which is pretty more, I don't know which one.
I'd have to analyze that kind of both theoretically
and kind of creatively and kind of look at the data
as well to kind of counter conclusion on that.
But I was wondering if I could change the topic.
Josh, you mentioned about accounts
getting kind of derailed and accounts kind of interacting
with even negative accounts,
getting derailed because of that
having vendettas against you.
That is the nature of the space.
Did you have an example of that?
No, I don't hear her either.
Okay, yeah, Luna, when you stop drugging,
you're welcome to either talk about that.
I'm happy to talk more about it if you want.
That was the nature of the space.
That's how we all got started.
And in fact, while we wait for Luna to get back,
raise your hand when you're back, Luna.
We'll just recap kind of where we were.
Because we got our topic with the hypnosis stuff
a little bit, but I mean, it is related in the sense
that this is a mass hypnosis that's happening in a way.
There are like, yes, con-finance men, con-men,
that their job is to be really likable.
Like Adrian Dittman's job is to be likable.
He's so very good at being likable,
but that doesn't mean he's not doing something
really not good for society.
The way that these platforms and the algorithms
are being very manipulated right now and weaponized
is what the purpose of the space was.
And the ironic nature of her rugged, right,
when she tried to bring the topic back up again
But the two primary ways that the algorithms
are manipulated and that people need to be more aware of.
And it's the worst on X of all of them
is that because they open sourced it,
people are able to study what levers they can pull,
what variables matter in terms of content curation
and what the algorithm decides to show you,
what advertisers decide to advertise alongside.
It's all algorithmically curated.
And because those algorithms are now open source,
anybody so motivated enough to take advantage of them
and to deploy them to great effect for themselves
is able to, they're able to basically have a roadmap
to exactly what levers to pull when.
Some of those levers are things like muting,
using muting strategically, blocking and unblocking,
leaving conversations, of course reporting the content
for any number of vague reasons.
There's an other reason you can report for.
So like, you don't even need it.
And as long as your account isn't,
you don't create like a history
of lots and lots of reporting,
then you'll never get your account flagged
And so what they do is there's botnets with thousands,
hundreds of thousands of compromised accounts
that then are commoditized, they're then commercialized
and you can go on the dark web
and basically hire these accounts to go deploy
and censor any voice you disagree with.
This could be your number one competitor in your category.
This could be someone you're jealous and envious of.
This could be somebody, a competitor in business.
It could be somebody, in my case, right?
A lot of crypto fraudsters do this to target me
because they don't want me exposing them.
They don't want me to have success with my exposés.
So these are all valid motivations
and they're like valid, they're all obvious motivations.
And so they hire these accounts that then go through
and they rotate which buttons they press,
Also, there's vast networks of accounts
that are deliberately shadow banned
that then they use their own shadow banned status
to go infect other accounts.
And so they'll go into your at replies,
like I'll have a bunch of people start at replying me.
And if I'm not careful, if I don't look at
what their accounts are and who they are
and what they post about,
it's not gonna be obvious to me that,
oh, these are all restricted accounts
and they're just trying to get me to like their posts.
So like they'll say something nice to me.
Hey man, I love your video.
And the second I hit the like button on their compliment
which I'm inclined to do, I've just infected myself.
So like these are the techniques
that are being deployed, speaking bots.
I've talked a lot about this exhaustively
about how now you can combine LLMs
with these auto voice masking systems
and you can create a system script that is in real time
just like the real time captions
that are in real time listening and converting to text
and then inferencing what the text is saying.
And then if certain spaces start talking
you can deploy an autonomous person into that space
an account that's armed with a speaking voice
that's completely autonomous
that then raises their hand, goes up on stage
and then we'll start talking about the topic.
Sometimes they'll just be direct trolls
that just immediately start to derail
the conversation with arguments.
They start to spam porn in the nest,
all that bad stuff, right?
But that's the obvious stuff.
They start to talk about the conversation
but then occasionally sneak in a red flag word
like the N word or fascist words
or a white nationalist speak
that they know are also algorithmic triggers
that will then cause that space to be delisted, right?
So I can't tell you how many spaces I've hosted
that don't get listed in the spaces section.
Even if you follow me with the bell on,
Because of this technique,
sometimes they're not AI accounts, right?
Sometimes they're just operators,
the people who are doing this deliberately
because they're part of a club that hates me.
and I'm using me as the example,
but again, this could be anybody,
any number of people who are affected by this.
And so the fact that X's open source through algorithm
this type of algorithmic manipulation
has existed for a decade, guys.
But the number of people aware to it
and being able to deploy it effectively
It was a very small group of people.
So it wasn't as exacerbated of a problem,
but now because they made it so obvious
with the open sourcing of the algorithm,
everybody and their brother,
everybody, so to speak, right,
is able to basically participate in this practice.
there are a ton of people doing that.
And so it is much more pervasive
and by the way, it's not just X.
X is the worst platform among them,
just in the sense that they literally
open source the algorithm.
So you have a direct roadmap
of exactly what you can do
to get exactly what results.
It's the most effective way to Shadow Man and Censor now
is by using the X algorithm and gaming it.
But every platform has algorithms.
So, and it stands to reason
that similar buttons affect similar things
because it's Silicon Valley,
it's the same engineers rotate across different companies.
So they all affect basically
make the same decisions, right?
So yes, this can be done on LinkedIn,
it can be done on Instagram,
it can be on YouTube, TikTok,
for those of you who've just tuned in now
of what we've been talking about.
Did you have a specific question that you wanted to
or example you wanted to talk about with respect to this?
So, I mean, I just wanted to know
where to find the resources
because I don't know where to start.
Like I know this is a ridiculous,
I mean, I learned to code,
but I'm just not that tech literate.
crypto kind of excited me for that.
and the whole art world started to get invited into it,
where like I finally felt like it would be made
But yeah, I don't even know
like where I would find this algorithm,
how I would work it and how this,
I mean, should I employ people to do this for me?
Should I say how do I make money?
No, no, see you're an upstanding person
this is the paradox, right?
You've come to realize that if you don't, you lose.
It's sort of an arms race,
where like if you do, you're forced to do it.
And so I'm not gonna encourage you,
but like if you're gonna take any AI agent,
the one AI agent that I make,
you can ask WebGPT through chatGPT store,
you know, to find the Twitter X open source.
Oh, no, you misunderstood me.
I'm sorry to interrupt, but you completely misunderstood me.
I said like, what if you're the person
Like, how do you find out?
What do you do to counter it?
How do you, what's the cure?
I'm not gonna like go out and tell people.
No, no, no, no, I hear you.
But the counter to it would be to do the same thing,
but with the positive side of the algorithm.
So there are ways that you can artificially engage
that will positively help your algorithm.
So that's the other end of it is the one side.
But see, again, I'm not encouraging you to do that
because you're just participating
and exacerbating the problem.
Because if you do that to great effect,
then it forces me to do it.
And then everybody's doing it.
And now nothing means anything.
Everybody's traffic is fake and inorganic.
So, you know, what's the point?
So like, that's the problem here.
But like the other side of this is fake likes,
fake retweets, fake engagement, fake followers.
And unfortunately, very frustratingly,
that's the side of this equation of this false manipulation
that these platforms have focused the most at eradicating.
They haven't focused on eradicating the false suppression.
They focused on eradicating the false amplification.
So what that's done is disarmed your ethical people
from even their one line of defense, right?
Because now if you fake engage, if you fake retweet,
if the ratio of retweets to likes
is not exactly the ratio it's supposed to be
and it's not the exact ratio it's supposed to be
to your followers and your average reply counts.
Like there's vast complex ratio algorithms
that create a standard distribution of statistics.
And if you don't coordinate,
if you don't calibrate your fake engagement
to maintain that exact precise ratio,
that you will get actually,
they'll ban your account even faster.
They'll suspend your account.
They'll flag you for falsely pumping your data.
that's one of the weaponized tactics the other side uses.
So now the other side, other people,
they can go and buy fake likes and retweets
that are deliberately outside of the distribution
For me, they'll buy that on my account
and that actually accelerates the rate
to which my account then gets flagged
So it's the perfect swarm of all of the wrong decisions
is what Elon Musk's acts has done.
I mean, I just didn't expect,
I thought he was very kind of-
Yeah, not smart, but tech savvy.
Like I thought he knew that kind of stuff.
I've sent this to all of his people,
not to like throw a saw shade.
I've deeply explained this to him.
He's their analytics guy.
And I think that there's what unfortunately
might be true of X, right?
Is no matter who you talk to,
there's probably a culture there of fear
because of Elon's sort of ego
and cult of personality mindset.
Where if you were to mention and bring up internally
you're limiting your career.
So nobody wants to internally
even really rock this boat.
And it's created a really unfortunate
like relationship even internal to the company.
Cause I think there's smart people and engineers there
who if they were to hear my space,
they're to listen to the things I'm saying would go,
this guy's bringing up a lot of fucking good points.
But that would potentially really limit their career
if they were to say that to Elon, right?
Yeah, that's just, I guess our culture, right?
Like we've got this individualistic,
yeah, that's the dark side.
Well, they see how much consequence it brings to myself
and they don't want that, right?
No one wants to be in my shoes.
You look at my engagement,
you go how can a guy with a hundred thousand followers
who's never purchased accounts,
how could he have such a hard time succeeding in the world?
But it's because of the problem I talk about.
And so it's very terrifying for anybody
to wanna throw in with me and go, yeah, you know what?
I'm gonna go do that in a meeting tomorrow.
No, they don't wanna lose their $280,000 a year salary.
Yeah, and I was wondering my second question.
because at the moment I have suspicious suspicions
that people are doing this, but I have proof.
How would I go about if I wanted to kind of find out
which accounts to avoid proving they're doing it?
I mean, apart from just trolls,
like I've had a lot of trolls as well sent my way,
but like, you know, like.
The answer to your question is unfortunately Luna,
you don't like, unless you're me
and this is not like me not trying to be condescending
here, but I've spent years doing this,
investing in this, I've developed technology.
It was principally developed for blockchain fraud
for detecting standard distributions
of blockchain transactional patterns
and then finding the outliers.
I basically recalibrated that technology
and I retrofitted it to work with hyper parameters
around the X algorithm and around Twitter.
So I can now basically instead of blockchain transactions,
I can map that to engagement transactions.
Think of it like in a tweet
as a transaction on a blockchain.
And that same algorithm I've made works very effectively
at identifying where these pockets of coercive behavior,
the pockets of fake accounts
and manipulative actions are taking place.
I've freely offered it to X, not literally freely
because I'm tired of being literally homeless
So I think I should be compensated
for this work I've done for two years, but I'm not.
They don't want to buy that from me.
They don't want to compensate me for that work
and neither do you, to be honest, right?
No offense, but you're not gonna,
there's not enough interest in this
to crowdfund support me either.
I can't grow up that support.
So am I just gonna freely give everybody that tool?
No, but I have that solution and people,
we need to find a way to incentivize
the further investments into that technology
It takes a lot of my time
and I think it's important work,
but to what degree can I afford to further develop it,
It's not in a releasable format.
It's just, it's all hacked together on my local machines
and I just run these scripts
and I know how to use the tools
because it's, I built them,
but to turn it into a product is something X could do
if they wanted to, but I can't force them to do that
and I don't have the means
to create a commercial product around that.
I have to focus on things that have a high likelihood
of getting investment and generating me revenue, right?
So that kind of brings me to my second question,
which you kind of answered.
So my second question was like,
how would I work towards gaining access to that technology?
But I guess the answer is to wait for it to,
for you to kind of do a startup
and when you're rich and famous.
Which I do have a startup by the way.
I have one, you probably never heard of it.
Cause again, I'm a victim of my own like expose
is me trying to raise awareness in this.
So there are a lot of AI competitors out there
cause they are using these techniques
to fraudulently get themselves likes, engagements
and purchases because they just are out to grift.
They're out to get as much money for themselves selfishly
without any regard for the consequences.
And part of that means they don't want me exposing them.
So I have regularly, and by the way,
this is not me just musing.
I get threats all the time.
I can hit up on telegram.
I get DMs of people basically telling me,
you're gonna get, we're gonna make your life hell
So it's very overt and obvious to me.
And again, X can just look at my account,
look at it as a case study and go,
wow, all the answers surround this guy's account.
He's one of the canaries in the coal mine, so to speak.
It's right there for them.
If they want to solve the problem,
the unfortunate side is their incentives
are actually not aligned with solving this problem.
Cause again, like I said, short-term
that could potentially cause a lot of loss of revenue
for them and that's not something
Elon can afford right now.
So again, it's a real complicated problem.
Could I solve this problem without him?
Yes, I would basically take what RUG radar was.
I would make a Doppler radar style system for X.
It'd be like, I envision a site you would go to
that my tech would basically create
these front end visualizations of
here's a grouping of accounts
that are clearly moving in a course of manner.
So go ahead and blacklist all of them
and you could block all those accounts
with one click of a button, right?
How I would price that, I don't know.
Pricing strategy is difficult.
Another part is X made their access to their API
so goddamn prohibitively expensive.
I can't afford my own place.
I can't afford my own car payments.
How am I gonna afford a grand a month to access the X API?
So I don't even have the ability to develop
a really scalable piece of software
that could be publicly accessible.
I need a lot of people first to go,
hey, give this guy a free license.
If there's anybody to give me a free license to, it's me.
But give him a free license
so we can develop this tool for us.
No one's doing that for me.
And I've tried and they won't give it to me.
So like, I could give you the solution I want to.
I need the support of, and again,
not even like technical support.
I just need the financial support.
Yeah, so this sounds like something that,
you know, I'm gonna do some research
how startups work and maybe,
because I mean, people raise funds in crypto all the time.
So there must be a way to do it.
Yes, but it's the wrong people, right?
It's the people who are saying
you're gonna thousand extra money if you invest in me.
And I'm not gonna say that.
I could apply these same techniques.
I could go out and say, hey guys,
I'm gonna make you rich, just invest in me.
And that won't be true, but I'll get my million bucks.
But it's like, again, to what extent do you want me,
are you gonna force me to compromise my ethics?
Are you gonna, just so that I can succeed?
And I refuse to compromise that ethic.
the second that I compromise that ethic,
the other side will actually have actionable evidence
that I've committed to crime.
And they'll coordinate very hard to expose me, you see?
So then I'll actually be the one that goes to jail.
So I have to be on my best behavior
because the second that I deviate from it,
the other side will have actionable evidence
that I've committed to crime.
And I have evidence they have,
but my evidence doesn't get heard
because of the paradox of them suppressing the spread
Yeah, I mean, I guess, yeah, I guess,
I mean, I'm willing to play the game,
like if you're not willing to do that, then.
No, like I said, I don't have a luxury of it.
The second that I effectively play their game,
they will just deploy their,
they'll point their fingers at me and say,
hey, you just did this and then I'll get in trouble.
I'll be the one that gets in trouble.
Well, I want the software,
so I'm gonna try and like research how to help you,
like how to do a start-up.
So hopefully, because I do really wanna trace
how it's done, basically.
you know, I actually had a blockchain company once.
I released a token once that was part of a legitimate
project and it didn't work
because it launched at the exact wrong time.
The market crashed the next day.
So like we just were, we got really unlucky
and of course we had all these forces working against us
And even though I didn't commit any crimes,
they created these PR scenarios
where it looked like I rubbed my own coin,
when of course it was just the market tanking,
but they tried to make it look like
I was the one doing the thing
that I was accusing them of doing,
My, our coin lost value because the whole industry did.
Theirs would lose value because they were selling
and dumping their own supply insider trading
on top of their consumers.
Those two reasons that your price would drop
are two very different contexts.
But even though I didn't create the committed crimes,
they used that to like negatively affect my public image.
And so that's how I know that if I did actually
play their game, if I did try to do like underhanded
things, they would expose that
and then I'd actually have something to answer for
and it would hurt me badly.
So that's why I'm saying like,
I don't even have the luxury of fighting fire with fire
because of that reason, they're waiting for that.
They're hoping that I do that, right?
Yeah, and in crypto, it's very, very kind of,
yeah, I guess I can get that.
And again, you found that if I tried to buy
my own engagement, if I tried to artificially inflate
my own results, again, the second that I started
actually being the one doing that, they would report me
and they'd find the evidence that showed
I actually did purchase that.
Like there's probably little traps on the dark web
looking for people like me who go and do the real,
and then they would go, hey, this guy just tried
to order fake engagement, you should ban his account.
But they, of course, they're not reporting
and everyone else doesn't, they'll only report it
when I do it to somebody who is their enemy.
So I don't even have the luxury of trying
to fight fire with fire, it's nightmare.
Hey, Josh, how's it going?
I know you're talking about buying engagement
on the dark web, but there's a lot of above the line
engagement to be bought just on the regular web that.
You know, I don't think that it's all dark.
No, no, it's journalists, you know,
have been using that corporate system for years.
It's not all dark and paying an influencer
For sure, I don't have any money to pay them with,
so I can't even fight it up and up, you know what I mean?
So it's like, again, it's a self-fulfilling loop.
I'm just using me as the example, guys.
Yeah, I'm not trying to like.
No, I'm not trying to cut you down on that.
I just, you know, I just, it's a lot more,
the system is a lot more prolific than it may seem,
which I, I mean, you know, I concur what you're saying
But here's my question with relation
to the manipulation and censorship,
because, you know, we're looking at being
on social platforms that are corporate entities, you know,
so we're engaging with whatever they decide the agenda is.
That doesn't necessarily give us a right
to free speech even on X as we may, you know,
be told over and over again.
So what's a better system than that and have, you know,
I don't know if you've been exploring
or if anybody else has been exploring
the decentralized social platforms
that are built on ActivityPub, like, you know,
the one that just launched BlueSky and Mastodon
has been around for a few years,
but, you know, the thing that they offer,
and I'm not trying to promote any of those at all,
but the difference is those are server-based social platforms
where you retain the control over your information
and the engagement you get,
and you can actually interact seamlessly
across all platforms, including this one, by using those.
But it is another layer or shield
that sort of you can put in there
to effectively not be treated in the same way.
So I don't know how, you know,
of course I'm just experimenting with it now,
so I just am offering it out there
because, you know, I think that there's a lot coming
on the radar for most people
with understanding that they're on these platforms
and they're getting subjected to certain,
you know, agendas and propaganda
and intentions of the owners of the platforms,
but I think as more people come on board with it,
they're gonna be looking for a solution
so to not be subjected to that, right?
So then where do you go, right?
And how do you maintain better control over your data,
because like, you know, if X doesn't make it,
next week gets shut down or something,
no joke, you know, this is all gone
and your followers and everything,
so everything that you've built up,
so you know about all these things
The big deal is we have made a deal
with any of these platforms
where we are being told that we have equity
Like either in the form of you build up your followers
and you get to a certain amount
and you're able to monetize you
and all kinds of things like this, right?
So they're insinuating that they're giving us like equity
based on this time that we spend.
However, you know, the reality is
the platform can shut down tomorrow
or even an hour or five minutes from now.
We have nothing to say if it does happen that way
and then we realize very quickly
that actually what we've been doing
is renting our time on the platform, right?
So like they, not only have we been-
I know what you're saying.
You know, we've been rent.
We haven't been building equity.
We've actually been renting
and that's the big idea here.
You know, the big idea is that they're renting time to us
and well, they're renting a space for us
to actually spend our time, right?
And then they're actually monetizing our time
instead of us monetizing our time.
So there's a big distinction there
and I think more people are coming online
with being able to define that,
what their time means when they spend it on the platform
and that they actually don't have any right
to any of their information
or free speech on a platform like this, period.
So, sorry to cut you off, but there's a lot here.
I tend to think about it, I'm sorry.
I hear what you're saying though.
and it's got a lot of people wound up
and I just wanted to take a step back here
because I have a lot to say about this.
The first thing is on decentralized platforms,
you need to think, you need to unpack this
and think about what is a platform?
And the platform is an attention marketplace
is what this platform is.
So whether it's a decentralized attention marketplace
or a centralized attention marketplace,
it doesn't really matter.
I understand what you're saying that it matters
that there's a central control or authority over it,
that it is corruptible, excuse me,
and if there is not, that it is not corruptible
and not just corruptible, but again, like you said,
if the servers had shut down,
they're just running on servers like any other company.
If they go out of business, the servers go out of business,
I get what you're saying and on decentralized network,
of course, on a blockchain, that wouldn't be the case.
It would always be hosted on this decentralized network.
because if that network went down,
if all the Ethereum validators stopped validating,
then the Ethereum network would go down.
There would be the servers you're hosting on,
on a blockchain are in fact, just computers.
They're computers that are incentivized
to loan their time to the decentralized network of computing.
And they're all held to account
because they all have to match all of their hashes together
and the current state of every transaction has to match.
And if one person gets out of sync,
it means they were being the one that was deviant
and they get kicked off the network.
So this is how the network self-polices.
It is in fact valuable, but make no mistake,
it can go down absolutely.
All those servers just need to decide to stop.
Now, it's very unlikely any one central authority
like the government would get all the servers to shut down
because they're in every country all across the world.
And no, we can't get all of our countries
So they're not gonna all agree to shut down these servers.
The power, it became just shut down the power.
Let's be clear that the incentive to keep working
is the fact that they get these mining rewards.
They get these rewards in ETH.
They get these rewards in Bitcoin if you're a Bitcoin miner.
And the second that the math of it,
the second that the financial institution of it
becomes no longer a reward,
then those servers are gonna convert.
The price has gone up a lot,
but back when it was $17,000, $20,000,
the electricity cost to run those miners
literally meant you came out at a loss
and with AI hyperbolically improving
and all of these people were basically taking
their Bitcoin miners, which are largely GPU arrays,
and they were converting them into AI inferencing arrays.
And they're getting a much more higher rate
of profitability on that.
So we started to see the threats play out directly
to that sustainability of that network right there alone.
So just the changing times can cause
that network to go away as well.
So when you talk about these decentralized social networks,
they're not impenetrable and invulnerable.
You're still renting your time.
Now, another thing about this is
while they are less corruptible
in the traditional sense of corruptible
in that you couldn't just go in and change the code,
there are still people who are programming that platform.
What they're doing is they're proposing the updates
to the validator network and the validator network
is all voting going, yep, we want to adopt those changes
and they all adopt them at the same time.
And that's called a fork or it's called a merge
or it's called some EIP thing for Ethereum.
And the point is all of those servers upgrade
at the same time and they all run
the latest version of the code.
And they all agree that this is the version
of the code we're running.
And the idea that the more democratic it is,
That also means that their algorithms are open source.
So their algorithms are gonna be just as open source
manipulable as the open source Twitter algorithm.
This is the paradox of what you're saying.
while the proprietors of those networks
are really selling the narrative
of how much more secure, reliable, stable, ethical
and transparent their network is,
they aren't telling you the honest truth,
which again is hard to hear,
but just like X, the very nature of their curation algorithms
being open is what other people will be able to target.
And there are no more or less prone to that.
Now, the reason why their manipulation
is happening less right now on their platform
is because there's way less incentive to manipulate.
There's way fewer audience on those platforms.
Those platforms have of the reach
in the thousands, not the millions.
And so wherever the attention is the most convertible
and the motive to influence the ROI
on investing time, energy and resources
in manipulating the outcomes,
the higher the ROI that you stand to gain,
that's where you're gonna put that investment.
And right now that's X, that's Facebook,
it's Instagram, it's all the traditional platforms.
If one of those other decentralized platforms
were to rise to this similar ROI value proposition
in terms of just sheer audience,
then the incentive would absolutely shift
to gaming their algorithms, to manipulating their algorithms
and it would work fundamentally the same way.
That's the unfortunate truth about those.
Oh yeah, I mean, I really do appreciate
that nothing is sacred when it comes to this stuff
that yeah, it is all open source
and certainly it's vulnerable.
I think that on the upside, the only thing I'm saying
What you really want flow ideally
is you want a closed source trustworthy ecosystem.
You want a closed source trustworthy ecosystem.
You do want an arbitrator of that.
You want somebody with uncompromising ethics
like what we are told Elon is,
but who actually then reinforces that through their actions
that they listen to transcendence like that.
They listen to dissidents like this.
They listen to criticism and they honestly go,
you're right, instead of egoistically going,
no, I'm the meme Lord, ha, ha, ha, ha.
Instead of that, you need somebody that goes,
you know what, that is a flaw.
and then they deploy a fix for it.
I wish I was hearing from X right now
because then X would be that sacred place we could trust.
It all comes down to just,
you need to trust inherently
your ushers, your stewards,
your ushers of that integrity
and a truly fully decentralized self-governing system
is actually in a lot of ways less,
like weaker in that regard
because you have no one to hold accountable but each other
and that's a really messy thing.
Hey Josh, very quickly I saw Luna has had her hand up.
Excuse me, it's 3 a.m. here.
I thank you guys for this amazing space
and Josh for you hosting it,
Jess and Chelsea for co-hosting Luna
Flaw chiming in as well and everyone listening.
So I wanna wish you an amazing evening,
day or afternoon, whichever you have.
I'm gonna give you a follow back.
I appreciate your contributions.
I hope you're not a white supremacist account
Yeah, no, as far as, no, you can say that.
Josh, thank you for these amazing tips
because I'm going to be hosting spaces
related to helping people understand the mind.
So that's very useful because I was wondering
whether to bring more people on stage
or just one or two and use them as,
them asking question and actually applying the things,
different types of results.
But this will be very helpful.
do you have a list of these things that can ban you?
Like it would be a great if you have one,
if you don't, if you create one will be amazing.
So people can look it and learn from it.
You mean a list of accounts that are doing this?
No, no, no, no, a list of the things
that can tank your engagement.
Yeah, no, I haven't created one of those yet.
Look for, because you were dropping gyms.
I was in several spaces of people hosting
and people talking about the algorithm.
But half of the things that you mentioned,
Like they covered everything else.
But you mentioned very specific things
Here's the paradox that you're saying.
If I were to make that list, right?
Even me talking about it like this.
Once there's a critical mass of like people
learning the lesson, they'll change their tactic.
So that list will become outdated.
This is the paradox of by open sourcing
What you really need is you need a service like mine
that doesn't publicize the list,
but that enforces and stays on top
of the latest trends for you.
Because the second that during the time
it takes for that list to adopt and to spread,
the other side will already adapt
and no longer do the things on that list.
Then that list becomes outdated and people go,
well, your list is wrong, bro.
So this is, I created rug radar.
You can go to blog.rugradar.org.
R-U-G-R-A-D-A-R, rugradar.org.
You can go to blog.rugradar.org.
You can read about how that worked with crypto.
I came running through the same paradoxical debate
with that where the web three people were like,
why can't you just open source your algorithm?
And I'm going, because that would give them
the roadmap to how to not be detected
So like it's kind of like that.
And so in a perfect world,
I would have a consumer product that would like
be directly like layered into your like feeds,
but I don't have the time to build that.
I don't have the financing to build that, you know.
Art of war, don't tell your moves today, I mean.
Thanks for your participation.
Because I'm coming from Clubhouse
and I'm trying to find the cool spaces,
I intend to host more again.
Yeah, I used to host a ton last year.
I kind of went into hibernation
when some attacks happened on me,
and I'm about ready to go back out there again.
So yeah, I'll be hosting more.
Well guys, this has been, I think, a really good discussion.
We had great participants.
I don't want this space to run super long
in the sense that I want it to be a packageable,
We're at about the three hour mark,
which is like that perfect Joe Rogan length, right?
So I want to kind of wrap things up.
If anybody has any last minute questions,
contributions you want to make, I'm here for it.
Otherwise, let's try to share the recording
and circulate the messages here
because I spent a lot of time organizing these ideas
and I'm pretty happy with how tight this debate had been.
We detract a little bit with the whole hypnosis things,
but of course my spaces have always been charitable
and it was an interesting discussion.
Jess, Chelsea, my lovely co-host,
if you want to have some last words.
I have freedom of speech.
Well, I would say to kind of try
to connect some things together,
there's this classic technique in hypnosis
and I would encourage you to take the algorithm
and be just prioritize quality,
authentic engagement and content.
And if you want to follow somebody
that has a weird following ratio,
but they're a good creator, follow them.
If you are angry at something, ghost it.
If you're, you know, it's just like
you have to decide for yourself
if you want the algorithm to train you
And for me, I'm training it.
I'm not gonna be, it's not my authority.
I don't accept the authority.
And so it's in a box and the keys missing currently, so.
Chelsea, have anything you wanted to plug?
I was on a phone call for a portion,
But I think I just want to encourage everyone
to use their critical thinking skills
when assessing these situations
and actually take a good look at it for yourself.
And I mean, sometimes it does become a bit of a rabbit hole,
so you don't want to do that.
And I think that's a good thing.
Sometimes it does become a bit of a rabbit hole,
so you don't want to get too far into it,
but you definitely, I think,
I don't know, there's a lot of things
people are missing out here
and I'm glad you're bringing awareness to it.
And I hope, I'm hopeful that things can change,
but we really need to stick together with this.
And that's what I really had to say.
And when we get on top, right?
Like, let's say we succeed
and we return the platform to a status,
a place where like value additive ideas,
not reductive ideas are rewarded,
where good behavior, authentic behavior
is the thing that succeeds.
We don't want to turn into the whole like cloud mafia thing
that Jess was talking about, right?
We want to make sure we stay above it
and encourage just that authentic competition.
And in that way, then we create an environment
where the best, brightest ideas,
voices and minds rise to the top
instead of the most reductive,
the slowest bottom of the barrel,
I think that that's also really important
we maintain that conviction of principle,
because yeah, it's like I said,
it's not me that's changed.
It's from when I had wildly popular success
in this platform into today
where I can barely get a goddamn space full.
It's like what changed with the goalposts.
And me, adapting for the times is one thing,
but this isn't me like refusing
and others like in my position,
It's us ideologically disagreeing with that adaptation.
It's saying, no, I don't want to become
a fucking idea pedophile.
I don't want to become an idea like racist.
It's an idea like it's a regressive mind state
that is required to be successful on this platform
and I disagree with that.
So I'm glad to surround myself
One more thing, the second pin back,
It was really funny from this guy,
Dick DeKraker, Benjamin DeKraker.
Google's head of AI, AI responsibility,
I guess is named Gen, Gen A,
So Gen, generative AI is the name
of Google's head of responsibility.
This couldn't get more meta, more red pill than that.
Thanks guys for the great space.
And we'll talk again soon.
Follow your co-hosts, everybody.