All right, good morning, good morning everybody. Thank you all the sailors for tuning in for another liquidity alliance spaces. Super excited about this one. Today we have zero cap with us. So really excited to
to hear about their perspective and how they view things. As we know, each market maker and firm that we have up here, they have different views and different ways to view the crypto markets. I'm really excited about this one. I got Vasco with us.
I believe Lengor or Nathan. Awesome Nathan. How's it going sir? Very well. How about yourself? I'm doing great man. It's a beautiful sunny day here in the Midwest and yeah I got a lot of exciting things.
things in the works for say and exciting spaces right now. So thank you for joining us. Of course. And we'll also hear with now now from the ZeroCaptain. Okay, awesome, awesome, perfect. That's go are you with us, sir?
Yes, I am. Yes, I am. All right. How are you doing? Good. Have me worry for a second there. Okay. Well, I think I think we got everyone we can everyone we need to kind of get the spaces going at once again. Thank you guys for joining us and I usually
like to start these spaces off by kind of getting to know who's up here with us. So, you know, getting to know Zero Cap, getting to know a little bit about the team behind it. So Nathan or the, I already forgot the name of the person behind the Zero Cap account. Go ahead, tell us a little bit about yourselves.
Yeah, sure. So yeah, zero cap, we're an Australian based institution, I've got an native institution. So we obviously therefore service other institutions, financial institutions, as well as family offices, high-levels individuals, and have been quite
quickly venturing into the fields of just speaking and working with token projects and communities. So what you know at its core, what ZeroCup does is sort of act as a bridge between these institutions and as I mentioned
and other groups who are trying to get into crypto but lack the education but but still want to do it in a regulated way. So we're regulated in Australia by our version of the STC who are called ASIC. And what we offer is an OTC desk we do of course
market making or relevant to this discussion. We do structured products and options and we do custody and we also have an innovation hub which sort of focuses more on the community trying to add value with research content. We do white papers and technical buildouts
But yeah, we've been around since late 2017 and it's been, yeah, I think Malmarket probably speak more on the growth and the history of ZeroCab, but we've been changing a lot with the market and it's been, it's been a lot of fun.
I'm chief operating officer at ZeroCap. Prior to working at ZeroCap, I worked at a crypto high frequency trading firm, doing primarily market making starting from 2018 onwards. That was a really fun time to crypt the markets, 2018, 2019, and
2020 and like Nathan was saying, we've had an interesting growth trajectory over the years. Zero cap originally started way back a day as a venture capital firm, but then in 2020 we launched this wealth magic platform for most of our
for primarily our family off-s clients. That grew really well because everyone loves crypto when the price goes up. We saw a lot of rapid growth at a time and now we see a different kind of market regime. We've been re-adjusting our approach to targeting more
family officer great you know bless their heart we love them. They're so our core client profile they're generally buying hold or selling hold you know and so there's not really a lot of active trading going on during a market like this where it's not so volatile and so we've been working a lot more recently
with hedge funds, you know, FX brokers, safety brokers, these more kind of institutional financial players and you know, trading volume here at Zurich app is picking up again, you know, after a slow search the year and I'm very excited for the rest of the spare market.
Thank you very much for the inset, Mama. Actually one of my first questions would have been like what is the difference in operations and day to day basis for market makers between a bear and a bull market, but you pretty much answered that. So I think since you guys have been around for quite a while, I'm curious to know like what are the
core differences, again, on an operational perspective, I would respect what you guys do between 2018 and 2017 and today. The market obviously has developed, has matured that there's a lot of products, DeFi exploded in 2020. Which one do you feel is the core difference that our work mentioning and underlying?
I guess maybe in Nathan? From the, I think again, Manlub probably would be better to take this away because he actually has experience in that field of the industry in 2017, 2018 to now. So Manlub, you're going to fill this one? Well, you know,
I actually think your opinion would be pretty viable too, because you're way more in a DeFi set. But I will say that, as when I was primarily an outgo trader, they're in a bull market. We're always worrying. Our positions are too large and during a bear market, we're always worrying they're too small. What I mean by that is in a bull market,
like everything is going great, you are printing money, whatever, and what you are always worried about is something going wrong, these exchanges are all expanding and growing so quickly, like let's say there is a big ICO or IEO or whatever or listing and their servers are going to overload it, and so you are always worried about, you are just
to quickly and then your positions get really big, get too much directional exposure, you know, get smashed that whereas in a bear market there's no volume anywhere and then markets are super crowded, you know like especially the there's this problem which happened every time where when the price goes up all these institutional players come in and they build up all this capacity and then
and the market drops and all of a sudden you have all these sharks going after a smaller and smaller amount of alpha. And you know, you had like really up their game and then it's really become like, okay, how can we increase our volumes? You know, like even if we have to decrease our profit margin. So it's like, it's stressful both ways, but you tend to worry about different things.
Yeah, and if I was to add, I mean, I think what's really interesting, especially as it pertains to this, the space itself is, you know, back in 2017 and 2018, there weren't that many applications or depths outside of, you know, a couple on a theory of
And even those that were on Ethereum were so rudimentary compared to what they look like now. For example, if they've learned to Arve. So what I've noticed from then to now is that at the moment there's this opportunity to do so much more.
that even though there is more liquidity in the market now in the DeFi space specifically, liquidity is spread so thinly that it becomes a competition to think you can make the most capital efficient versions of different protocols. For example, there's been so many attempts to build
new versions of AMM's even looking at Unisop, the 1v2v3 and now there are AMMs that are after the managing liquidity automatically. So it's always about how to best treat the limited liquidity, especially now as there are so many different applications and opportunities.
opportunities for users, retail users institutions and, you know, market makers are such to get involved in and deposit their funds in all of these different opportunities. Yeah, Nathan, I wanted to pick your brain a little bit on this as well since you're a little bit more keen on the D5 side of things.
So how do you envision this liquidity fragmentation problem being solved? Maybe taking a little bit of stance of how track-firing markets work as well. Do you, there's a lot of aggregators cross-chain aggregators popping up or is there a DEX that is going to king make and go over and turn
of infrastructure and tech and it's going to attract a little bit of liquidity and be like the on-chain de facto trading venue like how do you envision where do you think the space is going and how do you envision the future solving this problem? Yeah, interesting.
I think that although I'll still go back to it specifically what you've asked, but I think that there's a unique opportunity as I sort of alluded to a minute ago for those protocols that can be able to handle large volumes, large trade sizes, whether it be Perps or just, you know,
general swaps, whatever, you know, options and more, without needing too much liquidity. And that's obviously, you know, the the whole the grail of any sort of financial vehicle or product or exchange, but but to answer what you asked. So, you know, in Shadfighter, all of these really
popular clearinghouse systems, right? And they're slow and they're outdated and generally blockchain will be a much better alternative, but it's all about having share liquidity. So, you know, one thing that stayed out really well is it has that you have the ability to pick up an order book as a module for a new exchange for a new protocol,
which allows the opportunity to share liquidity, which really fundamentally solves that fragmentation issue. But with so many different protocols and blockchains, there's this issue where there's almost like a framework or a blueprint on how to build a successful DeFi landscape. You want to have a deck, you want to have a money
market. You want to have a liquidity hub, you want to have a Pertz protocol, and you want to have a launch pad, and you want to have protocols building a top, those initial four. So it's really clear framework where it works. But the issue is we have limited liquidity. So when every single new blockchain is launching with the attention of building out their DeFi landscape in the exact same, you know,
that is talking then, finances now taking and Salana talking, you know, Cosmology has taken, then we have the issue of where do we go, you know, so generally users are chasing the best liquidity incentives, which is really understandable, right? And this was very quickly seen with optimism when they would
doing their OP rewards for trading on Unisoppa or depositing, borrowing and lending on Arve. And then when that ended, the TVL halved. Right. So it's always a temporary pump in TVL and activity based on the query incentives. But the solutions that we're seeing is we have
agregators, but again we have 20. So we're going to eventually have an agregator extraction where there's agregators for the agregators for the Dexas or whatever we're speaking about, which is again another issue of where the people trade. But the goals, I mean, in my opinion, is having trusted
and this is again another holy grail, trusted cross chain, like smart contract executing bridges. So a good example of like connect. So what they're doing is you can actually execute, you know, a smart contract, for example, a borrowing smart contract on Arve within, you know, on optimism.
And on Ethereum, right, which is which is solving some of those issues, but but fundamentally there is still different there's still an arbitrage in terms of what you know what benefit you get from liquidity on a more liquidity intensive protocol, or you know, or the protocol that has more liquidity versus one has that liquidity. So there's still going to be an arbitrage and
and therefore, essentializing force in the crypto industry because one fundamental truth from economics, that's interesting, and tradify and being replicated in crypto is that liquidity drives the market. So when there's ways to actually bring it together so that a trade-acquired the best experience, sort of like at one inch
initially where there's one team that almost doesn't need to beat everybody else but just does it to benefit the other protocols without taking a cup on top then that's a great solution but you know thinking specifically to say you know going back to that what the the approach of using a sheet
shared order book is very similar to what's been done in Chodfight in terms of having a shared clearing house where all stock traders and brokers will will revert back to is a great solution, but it doesn't solve the issue of cross chain incompatibility and how much growth is happening outside of the SAE ecosystem.
I got to say back and unfold here. I wanted to find like the whole debate about protocols. I totally feel on that one. There's a lot of tokens. Probably a lot of them are useless. There's a lot of people that would argue that tokens are always good to bootstrap the network.
effects that are so much needed in our industry. So I'm curious to know like where the pro and cons there's obviously a lot of regulation, regulatory pressures today for projects that obviously influences the decision on whether launching a token or not, but we also know that Dexas have to, you know, get that firewall
It's kind of like a chicken and egg problem. Where does liquidity come from? Where does trading activity come from? And normally token solved this. So to what extent do you think in the future, Dexas are going to be reliable on token? Is it going to be more than now? Less than now? And how does the future look like?
Quickly before before we get to that one man. I did you want to add something? Yeah, I just want to go back to the earlier question about like is there gonna be one for who that rules them all and I just want to say I find like the whole conversation about Hello, can you hear me? Yeah, that's go. I think you I don't think you can hear zero cab right?
I think the space is kind of doing that like taxi law. Yeah, it's just kind of one of those moments. If you want Vesco while kind of zero cap kind of answers and memo answers that if you want to leave and read joy and I think that might be a solution or I can just be the intermediary.
Okay, there we go. He's gonna take care of that. Maybe you should hire some test such years. Some engineers. Some engineers. Yeah. Get them on a blockchain. But anyway, so I do find like, I do find a whole conversation about like one from
call to rule them all. It comes liquidy kind of weird. Um, can you guys still hear me? I can't see like my little yep. Yeah. Okay. All right. Fuck me. Anyway, I find it kind of weird because, um, I mean, the tour is a hard to outstart outsmart markets. And I feel like now that we've got to like the
The evolution of equity, equity markets, futures markets, effects markets, the crypto markets. I feel like the problem of market structure or these protocol in terms of market structure is fairly clear is that in the sense that there's basically three main factors that influence liquidity and those are, you know, getting the most market participants for the best market
participants or having some kind of directional acts or providing incentives using the form of fees or the whole thing about providing preferential market data. So some kind of preferential incentive to some of those market participants. And so getting more people on there.
kind of a no-brainer getting some kind of directional ox from a sense of a market maker, it's well, you know, can I, like number one, because I use this to offload some of my positions number two, can I use my army of quants to figure out some kind of alpha generation, which will help me outsmart the market, which is
kind of like how dark pools work. The buy side investor doesn't have to reveal their preference and then the insta gets to either they get the offload at the enterprise or they just charge that service of not revealing their bias and fees. That's why you see like in exchange
like that's like you have all kinds of weird fee structures that tend to benefit specific market participants and that's how they get attracted to these venues or you know on the other side you see stuff like payment for order flow which is you know like the world yeah this is how I'm going to get that liquidity by just you know by going to the right kind of parties to get my does
and order float too. And so basically depending on whose implementing the liquidity source, these are the various factors that are pretty much universally implemented at least in traditional markets. And so I think one thing that could be interesting when we think about market structure and going back is there going to be one source? I mean,
In equities, there often isn't. Equities are very fragmented and features are often is. Equities being fragmented in the United States has a little bit of history because of REC and MS, which really messed up the market a lot of ways. But even outside the United States, it's still pretty fragmented. You have your big
changes whether it's funding exchange or whether it's New York Stocks change. You have ECNs top and you have dark poles on top of that. Then you have the direct counterparties. It's like a waterfall structure. A big reason is because inequity is fungible. You can take one stock and buy it on
buy it from Wolverine and you can sell it to NASDAQ or sell to someone else on NASDAQ. And so when you have that fungibility, then it's easier to have a more disputed kind of liquidity. Whereas for futures, futures are not fungible. Futures are unique to the venue. And so that's why you have
have a few big futures venues, whether it's CBOE, CME, and they just suck it all for liquidity. They just become decentralized source. I think number one to summarize, I think is there going to be one main liquidity source? I think it kind of depends on the nature of the asset and why going back to that cold start problem.
get liquidity, I think tokens are fine, but tokens are just kind of like they're a tech solution. I think really what tokens allow you to do is sign incentives around liquidity. And I think really that's the big one is like how really incentives are the thing that attract people to do for buy liquidity.
Can you guys share me just a test before I go on? Yes sir, a lot of clear. Mamma, I just wanted to thank you for this amazing background story about the presentation of the equity markets and bringing that back to crypto. Love that.
I wanted to dig a little bit deeper and go a little bit away from the theoretical and research aspect of our industry and more towards, on the practical side, on a day-to-day basis, how does zero-cap operate in our markets?
How do you integrate with centralized exchanges? How do you work with projects? What are the differentiators that differentiate, sorry for the game of words, zero capital respect to other players in the space? I'm curious to know about this. Maybe we'll start from my mouth now and maybe Nate and next.
>> Sure. Well, how do we deal with centralized exchanges? I mean, it's like, you know, not just exchanges, how do we integrate them? Money that we keep on there, you know, what symbols we trade there versus, you know, decentralized exchange or counterparty or OTC. And it's not just that. You know, a lot of our trading is -- is -- is -- is -- is -- is -- is -- is -- is -- is#
is to be at, so how do we handle banking and then you know, all these dollar banking, US dollar banking and that's not even like, then you know, how like operation, how's it, how's it work, you know, we have some clients that want to trade on telegram, some clients that want to call us, some clients that want to trade via email and then we have, on the flip side, we have some clients that want to#
see candles, see an order book, some that just want to see streaming quotes, some that want to connect to the API. So there's a whole breadth of optionality that influences our decisions. And so on one side, you kind of have-- on one side, it's really like what do our clients want, slash what are the--
because we even make this transition from family offices to hedge funds and hedge funds generally, you know, they want to trade the API or they want direct market access. So, you know, what are our new clients? Well, I was like most of our flow coming from. And then on the flip side, you know, I'll try to align to that kind of reality and provide best service and the best equity to our clients possible while also managing risks.
And a lot of that comes from centralized exchanges. You want to be, especially last year or last fall months, you want to be really careful what you're putting on there. There's recently, with the kind of regular changes, there's been a lot of changes in how central exchanges handle their VR conversions. And so, you might have
a bunch of like you know, you have a stall around there and next day you can't take it out or you can't take it out after a few days but it's like you got a 3% withdrawal fee or something and so just kind of navigating that landscape is just constantly shifting and just I mean there's no there's no way around you have to understand the market and your options and go out next
Nathan, anything to add here? No, I think that covers pretty much everything. And then I'll definitely more on that side of zero cap as I see, oh, then then I am to great explanation.
Yeah, I just want to reiterate this has been extremely informative so far. I just wanted some clarity. So when you when you're talking, there's a few things that I'm a bit like I don't know the definition of like to the team. I'm sure other sailors, they don't know as well. But when you talk about
something like I think they're dark fools and then also family offices. So what is a family office compared to you know just like a regular firm is this is just like a really small firm or I would just love some clarity there. I'm the average Joe so
My IQ is a bit lower. Not at all. But yeah, sure. So, yeah, I think in, I guess in the Chad Foy world and now I know what as well. A general firm will just be like a company being started because they haven't much of, you know, they're
have an idea, they want to raise capital and they want to sort of go from there in terms of building something or doing something or investing here, you know, being involved in the market and some capacity. Whereas a family office, as right from the name, generally, we'll start off with a family, or a group of families or individuals who represent their families.
coming together with an existing sum of money to allocate funds. Right. And this could be, you know, what we're experiencing in zero cap is a lot of family offices looking to diversify by, you know, holding Bitcoin or making trades or gradually moving towards D5, but taking on, you know, you know,
So, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to#
market make or something on those lines. A family office will just be group of individuals with funds who represent their families and then will invest as such potentially as a VC or as just buying and selling as a market participant.
I just want to add a return profile. The main thing that differentiates them from hedge funds. Otherwise, it looks very similar. It's just like a pool of cash. There's my company.
of the family, like other families might be investors in a family office, or our seed investor, VSG, they manage money for a bunch of other family offices. So what the main thing from a return profile that differentiates the family office from a hedge fund is that they have like most a lot of hedge
They roll on like three or five year kind of horizons whereas family offices their investment horizon is infinite because you kind of assume that the family is going to be around forever like that's kind of what you're that's kind of why the family also exists to facilitate that and so you know it really changes a lot of ways that they think about things like and that's why a lot of our you know family off the climb
They're buying old. They're like, "Oh, well, I'm like Bitcoin five years. Five years of flip on a radar for them." Which is really not something you see all the time with hedge funds. They tend to invest in real estate, agriculture, gold, things that have are stable in the long run. So that's making them kind of interesting as clients.
Okay, perfect. That's just the type of clarity that I was just curious about. And then, and I know if I have this question, I'm sure some other sailors do, so thank you guys for just kind of clearing that up for me in my smooth brain. Vasco, are you back? How's it going? I am a...
Hope I am. We got you, sir. Yeah, well, I got back and you were talking about agriculture and gold. So where did the conversation go? But I just want to bring it back to the DeFi side of things. I just had a question. I'm curious to know. We asked.
We asked a lot on DeFi side and we I would like to have a little bit of insight on how you guys actually integrate with Dexas and when you decide to collaborate with a team for example the centralize exchange or any type of protocol What is the the process that you go through and what do you offer to these clients?
Maybe Mama? >> Sure. Well, one really exciting way that we integrate and work with DEXIS is through our research lab, which Nathan heads up, providing all kinds of research and advisory consult with them. So we can talk about that in a second. But in terms of just market access,
I mean, we integrate with Dexas by integrating with Dexas now, like usually whatever we look at their documentation, connect to them. The thing about Dexas is that, like, honestly, you know, for a lot of exchanges, crypto exchanges, but also actually exchanges. They have a lot of hidden rules. They don't really tell you about
You know, they have like hidden marketers, hidden fee incentives, you know, faster market data, whatever. There's all kinds of weird stories about that kind of stuff. Which has a market maker we sometimes have the benefit of enjoying, but also as a market participant we obviously have to be aware that other people
people might have an edge that we don't. I don't really see that much with Texas because everything is out there. Obviously, you still have to think about something like MF. So it's kind of got its own things that you've got to deal with. But that's kind of the short answer is just connect to them, whatever whatever way you're supposed to.
Okay, that's very insightful. And to do a little bit deeper, maybe Nate, on the research side of things, how does the research process work for new ecosystem? Do you target specificity
If I are also NFT focused, what is your stance on gaming for example? Yeah, I think that's a question. Yeah, yeah, no, very interesting. So generally what we try and do is
I mean ideally is find projects that aren't very well known that are doing something interesting or projects that are quite well known that have some unique feature that isn't very well explained. And you know, I grew this, you know, I'm related to sell
So it calls us as IBC and then Adam, sorry, Avalanche has their Avalanche, you know, what messaging, right? And they're often, you know, put in a box together because they're quite similar, but explaining it is where the fun comes in.
going to the zero to 100. So the approach would take in terms of finding that difference or that unexplored idea or this new protocol or this new tool in the ecosystem is generally just just being subscribed to like at least 100 you know emails
and writers that are constantly having like emails peeing or big subscribe to you know notifications on to the to you know those outfors and those you know educate tours on Twitter so then we'll find it that way we'll generally reach out and because we have a data reputation we have a
We have a good lab with some good articles out and most of the team is quite well connected. We'll hear back and you know just generally start chatting. You know, no call. It's often the best part about a research lab is that our research lab on the zero type side is that we don't charge for you know,
And I'm trying to be able to do that.
to speak to the community, so this is that vehicle. But we'll get out of call, not looking to get anything, just to get a better idea of what they're working on and idea of whether it be a good fit for someone to build a research-related relationship with. And then gradually just get better
We have two members of the research team who are quite apt at coding, so we'll generally do a deep dive into the code, not at the same level as an auditor, of course, but just to understand how the infrastructure works together.
will put together a structure of the piece that we want to write, we'll share it back with the team to make sure that they have, you know, that they're happy with it or if they have any corrections or things to be added, we'll do those, we'll make those changes, then we'll put through a draft, again, get feedback, and then we'll finalize it and publish the article.
Very interesting and I've read some pieces of your research, obviously specifically on C under extremely insightful and I would suggest you know anyone listening right now on the space to go and check it out on our website. You have a link on the Twitter page right Nathan? Yes we do. Yeah and on that note we actually published our second article on C which is which is
a deep dive on how say actually customizes and optimizes the Cosmos infrastructure for the SDKs, specifically, tendement and the features that adds in like, you know, SBAs and the auto books. So it's a really interesting article if you're passionate about Cosmos, but you want to know how say is breaking out of that of those barriers.
I have dogs here. Definitely recommend reading that. We touched upon providing liquidity under centralized exchanges, we touched upon the research side of things. I know you guys have different offerings also for example on treasury management side. I'm curious to know if you happen to operate also for a token generation
events for projects and how those look like. So yeah, Mahmoud, if you can walk us through that process to give a little bit of insight to our builders community. Yeah, we're very excited about our token treasury product. It's been something we've been building for the past few months in pushing out the market. I was an awesome
in last month for consensus and just kind of obviously a lot of token products there. Basically what the token treasury product offering is, is just kind of like kind of
And that's hard enough. You know, plus in crypto, everything is changing all the time. Everything's so unproven. There's like risk kind of laying out like every street corner. And so that's like another layer of complexity. And on top of that, you also have to manage kind of mundane things, which is, you know, where is our, like, what is our operating capital?
Where are we spending money on? How are we going to manage the TGE or the initial listing?
So there are all these questions that you have to figure out and it's a lot of work and it's a lot of money and so on and if you get wrong you die or yeah, you basically die and so what our token treasury product is is it tries to take a lot of this load off token projects so you know like zero cab all
offers institutional grade custody for family office clients or hedge funds and other people. And so we, for that, did token projects just to wait to keep their funds safe. We offer way like governance around how that money can be spent, how those funds can be withdrawn, offer stuff like automate payroll, whether it's be a stable coincidence or your own token.
or Fiat, zero guys banking all across the world. We help you get a hold on the markets. Obviously we are a market maker, but then we also help you like Modger, how you're talking it's doing, cross venues. I helped you track what kind of news is out there, was something you know, basic kind of crawling and stuff like that. We help you Modger.
you are a treasury. So if you happen to have a lot of e-thring lying around, a lot of atoms, a lot of stablecoin, I'm on congratulations. Number two, using our structured our derivatives desk, we're able to basically produce yield on those holdings.
you can make more money while it's not just like flying there. We can also use those derivatives to produce cash flow if you need hard currency. For currency it's not your token. We help you generate it without dumping on the market. So these are all things that are
all that's idle we call our token treasury. And then quickly just touching on the TGA specifically, we'll generally, I mean, you know, we have the research lab. So one thing that we look at very specifically and, you know, we're very tightly working with Eclipse pad now.
that's going to be one of the main launch pads for the stay. So me personally, I'm pretty close to Simon the CEO and he's done an amazing job. I guess educating the me and the rest of the advisors on the minutia of TGE and really, you know, lock drop models or how to continue to drive value even when talking to locked.
So what we can sort of derive from that may personally, in the rest of the team, is we can almost do a deep dive into economics, into the go-to market to help assist with BTG, whether that, you know, that might be helping out with introductions to exchanges, or determining how to best approach
to play liquidity across a DEX or between certain ranges if it's some sort of V3 model or a blockchain liquidity model. So we almost add that in as a module, as NAMMA mentioned, that comes underneath our, this service of helping monetize the treasury.
I wanted to pick your reign up and maybe get you to share some alpha on that as well. You talk about advising projects on TG process and what it has to happen on decentralized exchanges or on decentralized exchanges and to what extent. What are the pros and cons of launching a token on a Dex or on a centralized exchange today?
We know tokens, especially the AMMs, decentralized exchanges, especially AMMs support, you know, deep liquidity on day zero without, you know, on a passive manner to long tail assets and we know centralized exchanges are much more efficient since in terms of activity. So I'm curious to know what your take is on this. Yeah, and before you go, TG for
my fellow smooth brains is token generation event if I'm not mistaken. So just a bit of context. Nice good thinking. Yeah, and then I know all some questions. So there's definitely point and answer both. I mean, the most important con that I want we want to mention and highlight and propagate and tell everybody
is that obviously if we're doing an IEL and that sounds for an inch of exchange offering, typically that exchange, the e indicates the central exchange, so obviously it's centralized and that's the biggest con. So, you know, there's going to be requirements to potentially KYC, there's the fear of depositing liquidity,
or your funds on to the party and we see what happens with that with the F2F and other changes going down in those scary few months last year. The pros are also quite obvious. Generally, it's easier for a market maker as a zero
a cap or other teams in the liquidity lines to integrate with central exchanges because generally the infrastructure that you be plugging into is quite similar across exchanges and if there are different fewer modifications we need to be made as
compared to if you were plugging into an AMM-based Dex or even potentially an auto-book Dex in certain situations. So, you know, that's a big pro. Additionally, generally the exchange, the central exchange will have quite a large user base and they manage marketing when you're doing a
listing through an exchange, essentially a change that is sorry. At the same time, most of the time when you're listing on an exchange, a lot of exchanges will provide the USD side of liquidity for the pair, which only requires you to put in tokens.
And as the saying goes, token projects are token rich, but for yet poor. So that is often quite a big deal for a token that's just launched in their project or just launched in their token. Sorry, a project just launched in their token, never go. So that was probably the pros and cons in my opinion for listing on exchange, but then for a debt on that other hand,
which are a refer to as ideas, initial decks offerings. The pro is that it's open to everybody, right? So there's no barriers to entry. It's often quite engaging with the community because, you know, natively and inherently to a deck, you can allow the community to benefit from the growth or the trading
on the exchange, particularly with AMMs. It's obviously different with with autobook based exchanges. But on the flip side that will be a con as well for a sex listing whereby the exchange will take all the fees.
So it's often more communal and community-envolving when listing on a deck for the first time. But similar to the pros of an IEO, when you're listing on a deck, it requires the project itself to, you know, unless you're definitively positive that there will be
be enough liquidity from the community to ensure that there's enough depth in the market and hence low slippage. And this is for auto book based Dexas and AMM Dexas. Then the token project will need to place liquidity on both sides.
which will necessitate having tokens in the game, token rich, but also USDC, for example, or USDT. And that's often the hindrance in the situation where a project would want to put down liquidity on both sides, but they don't have enough liquidity to match the tokens they have or the tokens value they have.
often results in a negative effect in the trading frenzy that will occur because liquidity will be clearly skewed towards the tokens which is negative in terms of, it's not scarce, quite the opposite of scarce. Does it abundance of tokens in a
Harrison to the other side. So that's probably the biggest con. There's also obviously marketing done by the Dex, if they're involved in the launchpad experience, for example, but it doesn't compare to the marketing done by the, I think we
Yeah, I think I think I think we're doing great on time. This has been extremely informative. Yeah, if you guys don't mind kind of bring up some sailors some of the questions just a fair warning maybe on
hinge or they may not be relevant at all, but we'll kind of see what the community has to ask. The community's been doing a great job of the questions, actually. So I'll go ahead and bring up a few.
Let's see some familiar faces.
I'll try not to say anybody's name wrong or misgender anybody this time. I apologize in advance, but this this person, DeFi lover, using name to say, how's it going?
Thanks, Elon. Yeah. And a lot of times, I'm just like, I think people get a big camera shot to bring them up or they request early on and then maybe they just-- oh, here we go. How's it going? Hello.
We can hear you here a lot. So my discord board has kicked me out. So how can I join? Because I was a very early sub-botter. No, I can't join.
If you can't pass the cabsha or get past the simple verification, I'm not sure what to say there, but we did just get our server capacity increased from 500k to 700k as the light is 10 minutes ago. So go ahead and try now.
Okay, the capacity will be extended to your exp 1. One more time. The discot capacity will be X 1 right? Yeah, so we
The capacity has been increased, so there's no longer a limit at 500k. So a lot of sailors are finding their way to discord now. I'll make an announcement after kind of I'm done with this basis. All right, all right, awesome. Let's see. Let's get some
maybe some D5 questions or some MM related questions. Appreciate it though. I mean, if you're having this question, other people are having it. So it's never a bad time to answer a question from the state community. So how's it going, Safer? You live?
Right, well, see you I got a list of speakers so
I'm not doing much due diligence before I add people up so I don't know what's what we're gonna get but let's see say for it are you with us
or say Africa's up here, how's it going, crypto boy?
I don't know. I can hear a lot of good on my. All right. I mean, no biggie. Like we have a couple more spaces later today. If people want to have their questions answered so badly, they can
is fascinating and really easy to understand. So I just want to commend you guys for that. And for having the decency and courage to just come up here and talk with us, because it's not a thing that a lot of market makers do and we really do appreciate it.
No worries at all. Right to chat. Yeah, I like including statement. I will say that having been doing a lot of trading for a significant part of my career. I don't want to sound the fucking hype about it. It's like it's all this work. It's all this stress. You don't even make that much money.
I was standing on the screen all day long looking at a fucking like what is my position is 0.1 big one I got to head it out looking at going to logs like a microsecond I'm going to second what happened here why didn't my worry at place off because of my SAP
I was fucked or all this stuff. It's really not that interesting. You know, you don't even make that much money. And, yeah, I mean, I guess, like, Mark and Megas come from like the quant finds background, fucking Jane Street or whatever. And it seems cool, but, yeah, you know,
always have to come and hang out. We appreciate it and I do respect your candidness and honesty and you know working in crypto in general can be a bit stressful let alone adding leverage and other people