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LIVE FROM CANNES AT THE TPLUS VILLA
Recorded: April 2, 2026 Duration: 1:06:47Space Recording
Full Transcription
I can't fuck this feeling any longer
I can't fight this feeling any longer
And yet I'm still afraid to let it flow
What started out as friendship has grown stronger
I only wish I had the strength to let it show
I tell myself that I can't hold out forever. I say there is no reason for my fear. We're together, you give my life direction, you make everything so clear
And even as I wander, I'm keeping you in sight
You're a candle in the window, on a cold, a winter's night And I'm getting closer than I ever thought I might
And I can't fight this field anymore
I've forgotten what I started fighting for
I forgot what I started fighting for
It's time to bring this ship into the shore
And throw away the oars forever
Cause I can't find this feeling anymore
I forgot what I was gonna fight for
And if I had to cry
Come crashing through your door
Baby I can't fight this feeling anymore Hello, I'm Khan. Hello, there's Ellie. Dargo, Marcus. Ellie from 2 Plus.
Rambling off the week in France. How could you be, Jocman? What a week?
That was actually great, honestly. You can actually be outside and not sweat.
We were in Khan last year and I had sweat in your wood in the whole summer and I had a big glit at the scan.
Starting off with hot takes but I'm pretty sure it's a scan.
I looked careful all week, I was still bathing.
I was jumping down for the scan.
I was the executive dean.
It's been really good. The only downside was early on there was a lot of dining room.
Yeah, so I made plane travel kind of pressure. Right. And we do a lot of dining room yeah so i made plane travel kind of pressure
of it right and we do a lot of like yeah of course yeah so a lot of stories i think i don't
quite know much anymore um but it was i mean because i was like six days what just yeah
I don't think I've ever stood on a plane before.
I have.
Oh, it's just going to be awesome.
I think it's a terrible experience.
It's an emergency.
I sometimes I'll fly and I'll dress up in a suit.
I sit in college.
For a pre-seat conference.
I still sit in the college.
I'll wear a suit just so I can sneak into first class and then you go to the bathroom.
And it's not any better, but I like can sneak into first class and then you play the bathroom yeah and it's not any better but i like it i like to stink first class
Orwellian.
I think I just got like
proletariat in a moment.
I'm going to London next week.
I'm excited to hang out with you guys.
Yeah, Wetherspoon.
My first ever trip.
I met you guys.
I was going to say, yeah.
It's cool.
I met you before.
I met you on Argentina.
Yeah.
But then we linked up in London.
That's Wetherspoon.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I didn't even know that Blockmates
was like a real thing.
I was like, who are these guys? Well, no well no you're just talking about schizoprotic
and then they got me a spice i was going sorry oh yeah yeah i even remember what you ordered i
was kind of modified i was like having his first like chips Experience in the weather spills in central London
That's true, it's true he ordered like a bad guy I do
One of the perks of growing up fat is that when you went to restaurants
Like to go out with me because i still split the bill
communist
i also drink dinner with cryptid people especially traders like me and charco do a lot of like trader games and these guys are off the
hallways amongst other problems they're great i mean i like them a lot they're great guys and um
i just don't drink but i end up still spilling the bill okay which is something i think is
under discussed a lot of people talk about splitting the bill on first days not that people
are talking about the sober person it seems like i hate to ask for itemized check but it feels only appropriate it's a terrible thing it's nice it's a terrible thing I have the least fun because I'm sober and I don't
you don't need that guy at all no no because they need a good stitch what I'll do is I'll order a rum
and coke but I'll ask and ask me to mix it yeah so I feel cool to the server that I wanted to run
coke I just don't get the wrong thing that's cool
why because if you if you're gonna have to pay your first year anyway
you might uh
It's been a lot of fun.
It's been a lot of fun.
It's been a lot of fun.
It's been a lot of fun.
It's been a lot of fun.
It's been a lot of fun.
It's been a lot of fun.
It's been a lot of fun.
It's been a lot of fun.
It's been a lot of fun.
It's been a lot of fun.
It's been a lot of fun.
It's been a lot of fun.
It's been a lot of fun.
It's been a lot of fun.
It's been a lot of fun.
It's been a lot of fun.
It's been a lot of fun.
It's been a lot of fun.
It's been a lot of fun.
It's been a lot of fun.
It's been a lot of fun.
It's been a lot of fun.
It's been a lot of fun.
It's been a lot of fun. It's been a lot of fun. It's been a lot of fun. It's been a lot of fun. It's been a lot of fun. It's been a lot of fun. do business while he drinks. Right. Sometimes cold training is a business.
I'm a responsible one.
You've got to be a purposeful alcoholic.
Like you guys.
What was his name?
Winston Churchill.
Yeah.
Winston Churchill.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was.
You know the guy who helped to be
you should know
mark around three times this week
i've been a bunch of games
you know
amsterdam is not in there
you had four different names for the time
you should make an old Paul Winson chip
and just post like about
world world
that's in the jungle it's funny also because like the USSR and the UK were both like these empires are really
yeah I spent a bunch of time in Belarus as a teenager I volunteered to organize
and a fun fact about Belarus is why I'm getting to this part of the story is they're still in
the US as well the only remaining kind of that was like a real real big crescendo i feel like we
were working up to that time just like an like an hour. We actually just before we went live, we've just seen the fact that Grant mentioned there's
been Hitler's watches at the auction.
Yeah, 1.1 billion.
What's ever watched it?
It's pretty fucking sick to be fair.
Is there a brand on it?
On the back of the big fucking Swats.
It's fine, it's fine.
As long as please don't search
up the address and so his name is H H Moser and there's a German launch company named H Moser and
they famously made pocket watches for the German army in the first world war.
60th birthday, I got a German army pocket watch.
It says H. Moser.
All this is 65 year old Jewish.
All right Dave.
Good luck.
What's going on man you on that sofa.
Sorry. yeah my hands on my knees
choice uh yeah we were in an event yesterday
we were in an event yesterday
barry says worst cam girls i've ever seen
barry says worst cam girls i've ever seen. Thanks, thanks, Barry. Barry totally appreciate it. You spend the most much.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He says, well, since I'm watching Japanese.
He's a strange thing.
You speak about the data.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
I've been active on the dating apps recently.
Yeah.
It's been a lot of fun.
It's really difficult to get a third date.
And someone was saying that they should make a dating app about third day.
Because in New York, you can get a first day really easily. You can close deals on the first day. You know, get a third day. And someone was saying that they should make a day they have a third day. Because in New York you can get a first day release
and close deals on the first day.
You know, with a good margin.
Your pack is quite good.
Yeah, and then third days are hard to come by.
Why do you think that is?
Some of that, the problem everyone has.
I don't know, I'd like to think so. I'm also not on hinge which feels like the appropriate app you gotta be on hinge i know
i'm mostly on j-swipe and j-day what do you think that says about those i'm also on muzhuz like people watching this movie like 50 split if they think they are absolutely fucking suckable. Yeah, yeah, for sure.
People are probably enjoying it.
So, yeah, that's good though.
You gotta polarize the eye.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's important.
Sitting on the fence.
Dude, dude, we should talk about TPL.
Yeah, yeah.
And like Marcus is getting twisted.
He's a ugly subject.
He's explaining TPL. So funny. actually do this do the TLDR yeah people is a prime exchange we have a off-chain order book
running in a trusted execution environment especially the execution environment is a
specialized piece of hardware that gives you a really strong privacy and integrity guarantee. So you can think about it like a private off-chain smart contract, right? Like
very safe, very secure, but it's also very fast. So we have one millisecond account to tick.
We don't have issues with networking because we can horizontal scale. So good trading environment.
And then we go and make that composable with every piece of external liquidity we can find. So
if we have a deposit ball from the chain, you can actually interact with that chain stake out using your T plus account. So if
you're like short ETH and you want to get out of the position, you can just start exiting
it to UnixWelf over time or immediately. Yeah. So basically pulling funds, doing whatever
you want, returning the proceeds, all atomic. So there's no risk on these loans. It's just
an atomic interaction. We approve it as long as the margins
will stay to post interaction and then we cross margin with centralized exchanges so that means
that we can just ingest liquidity and products whenever a new coin wants we have it whenever
it already already boxes we have it we have access to finance public book like all this stuff right
so very good prices very good product product service uh that expands by itself
we don't have to do integration nightmares um and then the last piece is we use matchbook margin
to make this all kind of efficient it's i think uh you don't lose fungibility with spot it's
basically optimized spot margin uh so you have like the uh you have longs and shorts and what
we can do is we can adL cross a positions against each other so
auto-releverage if when you force a long to five not sure if it's being liquidated if you can't
clear it into the book so it's very efficient and it also allows you to scale the exposure without
sourcing the underlying uh normally spot margin doesn't scale very well because you need to have
like actual assets to borrow but if we have a long and short opening into each other or even like
shifting around the book doing a full line exposure you don't you don't need to have like actual assets to borrow but if we have a long and short opening into each other or even like shifting around the book doing a full line of closure you don't you don't need to source
the other line for that um so it scales quite nicely and then we control it all with skew based
monitoring uh or skew based funding rates um so if you end up with more longs than shorts you
kind of want to balance that uh because the excess is treated as spot margin needs to be liquidated
um spot margin position would be so it's less safe So we start making the longs pay the shorts,
and then you get more shorts in,
and that's a less volatile funding rate than CurpStop
because it's not premium based.
Premium is gonna be very volatile as like the overweight flow,
they say in the book, and the book's trying to absorb it,
and you're trying to find a counterparty,
you can get pretty big spikes.
I mean, I think that we saw like,
what, didn't Bitcoin just wake up lighter lighter to 300 a little days ago yeah yeah so if you're trying to charge funding
based on those weights it gets all over the place the carry cost is hard to estimate um we don't
have that issue with math but margin but we get the same level of capital efficiency the first time
so that is the that is the long explanation of cclus but i wanted to explain how we go
of these less but I wanted to explain how we go I'll give you three seconds
plus supports every asset with perfect pricing and it's a new type of leverage
oh better than first yeah I think one thing that's really cool is the T's that
Mark just talked about a lot of T's so I my background is like
centralized changes and one of the biggest risks you have in centralize
exchange operator is the exit scams or they just run run in to see your
positions one thing is that people I don't understand about sex is in general
and kind of like you heard a lot of HTX Alameda back then
because when you when you run any changes see the focus the other positions
and if you're running a beep book you're running your own remark they're doing
any kind of liquidity sourcing as they change you can see all
your thoughts so you can get on true you can because it really does happen
they wouldn't because that's not right of course oh yeah but T plus I think it's
one of the coolest parts about T plus that I think is perhaps discussed or or
not realized well not this because we're running a tease we actually can't see
use positions so I would argue that it's operator list and I think most lawyers
regularly agree with us that's the facts that matter but the best part
your position no one can see your position I mean L2 data is the public
but no one can see and then your access system and your size what you're doing
and that I think is massive advantage traders so people come to me like oh
why would I just use you know whatever other exchange you guys are it's like
well I think this is
And then honestly we have a
So we have really good relationship market makers who get all these capital
There's something that's a bit of privacy because we're talking about a little bit here
Um, it's also very important for cross-margining. No one is going to give you an API key
That means they can see what you can see what they're doing on another exchange
Uh, there's not a single custodian that's gonna integrate cross margining with you
if it means that you're exposing their users positions
on a public blockchain, right?
So you need to have all of that.
You need to have the margin engine be the only person,
or I guess not a person,
access that data only.
It's very sensitive.
The only engine you need to do is this autonomous
barrier by itself that we can access from. Yep. And because we're running it to you last
thing on the teeth is so for people aren't clear to break it down I'm
retarded so this is my understanding it is and I'm sure there are people in the
chat that are smarter than anything this guy's idiot these are really good you
put the code in the tea the tea gets creates a waiting for the code and then
we have security council go through changes that but um once you change the
code in the tea it's kind of like a smart comment track where you go from you swap do you want to use puppy too
so you get an attestation when you when you talk to t-plus when you when you log in it's
called a remote attestation so if we were to change anything let's insert malicious code
and you know in the previous version or some you know actor gets in there and does someone
hacks and they get in they update it you would do it your attestation would break you know after that's in there it does so an accident they get in the updated you would do it your attestation would break you know it's approved it's a great
the nice thing about that it's part of the TLS handshake that
just web to check and if your clients notices that the attestation is wrong
the connection doesn't work.
Privacy alone is not enough.
There's a ton of perplexes that have come out,
they're private, but they have no other.
And I think they're not.
Okay, arguably they're not.
Yeah, there's some that are like,
we're private, but we do all the encryption
on the operator side.
Like, well, who's the operator?
Yeah, yeah.
Bookstops and more. Yeah, yeah yeah like it all goes through a centralized
sequencer only the sequencer gets in your positions okay so what why tease over ck or
well fhe is uh not very usable um very slow it's out of building
um very slow
um so that's the fhu1 zk stuff uh well you use the privacy if it's just like zk based l2 um you
also like proving times have gotten a lot faster but the simply composability is really important
for us we have to have just like instant constant 100 millisecond finality on state um otherwise
like you're trying to hit uniswap and you're waiting for the proving
window to end and that's like the price not right yeah so you need very fast finality which current
rollups that doesn't really support on top of that we can kind of put whatever code we want in these
seeds like it's just rust you just write rust authorize it throw it in the right in the box
um for zk we have the right circuits for all of those operations for uh optimistic roll-ups you'd have to be able to re-execute with that on chain on another one and that's just not feasible for an exchange that's
doing uh millions of orders per second right like imagine the gas cost imagine like the blocks with
it wouldn't be for the most it's like a limitation of business yeah i mean zk zk probably will get
good enough for us to start using it as an additional security
layer because like right now our roof trust it isn't just hardware based that would be
um but it's like a it's like a threshold plus trusted execution environment uh security route
so we have a network of clearing engines that's all validating all these typically state transitions
that are proposed by the order booth um and in order for like someone to explode the network, they'd need to,
you'd need a quorum of all, or I guess validators,
a quorum of validators to agree to be malicious.
So 51% attack people are used to that.
And they also all have to be able to crack their,
their just execution environment,
which means they need data center access,
which means that they need to be a pretty specialized team.
It would be extremely difficult.
I think realistically probably impossible once you add in
like box rotation and key rotation for people.
Because then the hardware is changing.
So one of the cool things about using Google.
So we're running TX and ECP, Google Cloud.
And the cool thing about Google is they employ
when they use Serbian ex-military dudes.
It's inside their data centers.
These big gods.
They were like, oh, you're using T's?
Isn't that unsafe?
What if I got access to your T? I'm like, well, Google, I guns they're like oh you're using teas isn't that unsafe what if I got access
to your tea I'm like well Google I think they're really I think the market capital Google's what
hundred trillion dollars I think it's bigger than our market and I don't think that yeah they are essentially accurate.
Yes, we are trusting their management.
But we don't judge these people that we use,
like, because that would be,
if Google decided to kick us off, we'd say,
sad, we use a variety of different cloud operators
and bare metal operators.
But the point of the matter is every single,
there's actually, I won't get into the proof,
but it's a really cool cryptographic method
to prove that you're in a data center.
It's called Google Cloud.
Flava worked on it.
But yeah, like all of the boxes have to be in different jurisdictions.
To pivot off a T cluster, I can go to data centers.
I think it's just a fun anecdote.
Have any of you been to a secure data center?
So I used to work in centralized exchanges and we used to run our staging server out of the Wall Street Center and I was the young kid I
lived in you know most the team at this point I think 23 it's the founder from
from party the service I was like the only guy around to like the boss and
he was like a real old-school tech nerd so he built all the servers himself in
data center so one day like hell you got a car on Mars zero
markings you show up so deep New Jersey but not that far from city like it's if
you go there empty gray boxes kills them you walk on the door stupid the gun
and checks your id make sure you're allowed to be there listen to our vacation boss or
i'm being you know you show up literally do the guns you go into the booth right so you walk through
the first door pull through door pull for glass you go in and you wake up while they verify it
so you're not like getting verified in a like in a lobby you're getting verified literally in a
killed one it's like you're in a maximum security prison.
It's not secret.
Like an opaque glass walls,
you're standing there.
It's like a six by six box.
You're waiting for them to through.
Yeah, you walk in.
That way, if you're like malicious,
then you can't just run back out the door.
You're locked in.
So then you're in or you're out.
Then you go, you get past security.
You go in and everyone's got their setups.
And there's like a bare metal center.
So everyone's got their own setups running into the data center but everyone's boxes are still behind
like the right with prison cells so they buzz you into your own box so you walk through you see all
the boxes it's grading like a prison cell and you get to your box you look up at the camera they
close you into your box for all the servers um yeah that was a really cool experience to like
first-hand see data center security in real life like if you think about the size of like sounds like literally better than bombing a prison it is probably better than a prison if you
think about it prisons are house and burgers and uh data centers are house and wall yeah and the
funding to house wall street's a lot better than the funding down in sweden maybe not i've heard
the sweden are really nice nice yeah in the states in the state the data it's great i mean you think
about what's the size of one the size of the usdfx market is about 100 million dollars
a day it's like there's an absurd amount of money exactly so like i think for one of them fairly
comfortable with the security risk of being there that's also has a lot of failures at risk of like
i don't focus it's going to be like a full child about tifas i want to talk about with that you know like everything you've done this
week that's a strong question everything you guys have done deliberately how you've done
the time been like uh it's i think it's an interesting position you see it's really strong
pitch right it's really well and what point in the industry can be made, we're having a little bit of an identity crisis in terms of like this like
TradFi entry and everyone kind of is understanding what's really important that we put our institutions
on side and take ourselves more seriously and understand the shit and then being pulled in the
other direction it's like the original like crypto cytopunk ethos that we all kind of want to just like
this like original like crypto cytopunk ethos that we all kind of want to just like maintain
in a certain level like how do you like think about how you perceive in that entire question
i've been thinking about this term i've called uh non-consensual violence the lads were like what can we not say much just like anything i tell you to delete is quick
don't say it on the stream i think charcoal pitched that one internally and i was like
yeah we're not doing that
live yeah it's permissionless it's like look
i don't need permission to integrate you i don't need permission to absorb all your liquidity i can do it yes you know what i mean and so we don't need to do partnerships or like you there's
no bd thing that needs to be done with these other venues so we don't need to do partnerships or like there's no bd
thing that needs to be done with these other venues like we don't need a partnership with
the nasdaq we don't need a partnership with x-stox we support x-stox x-stox works for the nasdaq
great like we have a partnership with hyper liquid whether they want one or not they're going to be
ahead together so the nice thing about crypto is that you can just go out and do things. These systems exist. You can use all of the, all of the different things that are around and build your own best product.
And ultimately, ultimately, if you've got the volume, everyone loves you.
And it doesn't matter.
I'm a little bit more grounded on the original question.
Um, and not about permissionless stuff.
Um, yeah, yeah yeah yeah whatever uh but yeah i think that the greater point is that like
yes a lot of what we do is like very kind of like silly and out there and like abrasive and loud
and people are often like well like it doesn't scare institutions and like no the vast majority
of the time the institutions are like this is this is cool this is different you guys
seem to have a lot of emotion with the people that we want to trade you know
just yeah I was gonna throw this to you Dave yeah from an outsider's perspective
you guys have done a great job of lore building and building culture through
all your events you're all like everything's like a little bit you guys don't hop on things whether it's Chinese
cigarettes yeah six came about folks like things are cool again because I
think in a large part T boss and he put in here yeah our first collaboratory
event was the chiefs boss evenon Bushwick's exotic cigarette convention. And then after that, Chinese SIGs were everywhere.
We were on Instagram, we were on Twitter.
Yeah, we were very early in the Chinese meta.
Chinese SIGs are on the United States.
Yeah, but the most...
Who is the guy who built the site we started?
Did you see it?
Yeah, that's all true.
Yeah, I know.
But what you guys do a great job of is like having people have an opinion about you
and having people care about you whether they're bad or bad the most important thing is that they
have their attention as i said what i was going to say that well like it's also like
like t plus can treat different people as well russian charcoal it's about like capital for
example yeah when you talk like stable coins like trading venues it's a entirely different thing and I think that what I'm conscious of is as an
industry there's like people panic and still have the irreverence you know some
people would like it some people want in my yeah I also think you just do both
like we had a we had a very silly snail raising event in the afternoon yesterday where it's on a flan a bunch of people showed up people had a very silly snail-raising event in the afternoon yesterday
with a ton of flan, a bunch of people showed up, people had a great time. But during the
day, we were doing product in. I was giving extremely in-depth talks about how T-plus
works and why it's cool to a room full of market makers.
Wearing a tuxedo shirt.
Yeah, I was wearing a tuxedo shirt.
I was pissed off. I didn't have cufflinks.
We need to get you cufflinks. a t-plus color so we've been shooting with the Lord's
up to yeah with them actually because that was on whatever day it was we had a
similar conversation and Tim one of their gold ones say interestingly enough
because I think it's section that crypto should be trying to impress all who's scared of like drag-by
The other way around like what we've been doing for the last hundred years is how do we access it?
It's just weird like psychological thing.
The 24-7 market stream is something that is so ingrained and part of the industry now so you see it because it's just so grand and it's like and then he's not
just like dude but i got it and he must be like
you know it's like interesting like brand case study talented yeah that makes you know
dead fishes and they got a very in vogue brand yeah yeah yeah it was in the match bro yeah that's
in the thing they built culture yeah bar builder they lord build yeah the jackets are almost so
good that you forget that they killed people
i'll see dave's done a little job with each bushman like each bushman yeah
global phenomenon in new york city crypto wealth but also like expanding out of it and it like literally started as me it wasn't me was a joke was literally
it was like real and they became real I can take this bit to the first possible
conclusion yeah there we are having exotic sick conventions yeah
yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah one of those well-dressed socialites I've ever met and I'm not sure that's a green flag or a red flag I think he's really good at being a lawyer but also
I'm like a little bit certain this you know that meme like when your CFO
wears a brown leather shoes they're super ugly to pay less or my savers or
something you know you're in good hands it's like I kind of want my service
professionals to be kind of boring but then he shows up drip down like see you should just like embroider billable hours I went to Emily. I'm a kid. I'm scared. He gave me a long explanation of Jewish summer camp.
Last night.
Oh, let me hear it.
Let me hear it.
It sounds like a place where men come of age,
that women are promiscuous.
I went to an all-boys summer camp.
A lot of men came of age, but no women are promiscuous.
I went to a Jewish summer camp.
Did you go to a jewish summer camp Mike's a really good boy right I highly recommend anybody watching is looking for counsel. Yeah, all of the trouble in the mic. I'm just chilling. Yeah, yeah.
I like to get my cats raffling.
But not raffling.
I am with you.
So we did our snail race.
Got a lot of fun.
People loved it.
It was hilarious.
Snails race.
Fast, but it's a lot of fun, I think.
We made up.
There was a French. I don't know if we made it up, but it's apparently maybe a french tradition to snail race no it's british there's
so float float nation yeah yeah they should be blocking still feel cheese bureau oh yeah
who can we get to run down a hill after a two-year-old yeah ellie ellie
down a hill after a two-year-old
Ellie
people get like seriously
I get bugged up all the time I just don't love cheese
I mean like
coming down the hill like
why don't they wear helmets
that would be
it's like
yeah
you're in it or you're not
the prints are harder than I expected yeah I think that represents you guys play rugby no i don't feel too soft you play every day i played semi-pro rugby in brazil
did you in brazil yeah tell the story yeah yeah professional rugby in brazil yeah so I go down there to sell you abroad 2014 yeah and well well yeah so
my first day in Brazil I go to this cafe the waiter comes up to our table
doesn't ask for my order because be in a rugby team it's like yeah i played american football for nine years
so i'm like sure so i go and i join this rugby team no one speaks english only one guy does
so there's just like i go practice and to get to practice i had to take an hour and a half bus
to practice every day and i was like and i played rugby very differently than Brazilians like this I just played rugby like soccer
So they are just running up and down the field and I played football. So it's a lot of
Lateral movements a lot of like let me like you know, not person's light off
And so yeah, then I played a game and it was a lot of fun. I was a hooker
nice oh yeah we're gonna have you in this ground yeah that's crazy I would
put you read it it's from yeah man I'm really
oh yeah exactly here's a lot of fun I'm so friends with those guys like they
actually when we were in Brazil yeah I had a bar and I ran into my rugby boys yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah
inadvertently there were maybe a couple too many friends there to be comfortable and off-site it was more of a gathering gathering yeah wasn't super
no I worked and I was working the entire time
you were working the entire time I had a great time yeah yeah yeah
show them the wonders of 40 bucks yeah I just people like i brazil is weird to me because like
my i i don't know if you guys do this too but like my natural language is english right yeah
foreign and uh my second language is family family so when i go to these countries i speak like
poco poco spanish but they speak portuguese portuguese yeah which is confusing it doesn't sound like spanish so i just evolved to keep it
and the brazilian uber drivers are more confused than i am
and they don't get it
i don't get the hummus they don't get the money
the good thing about being american is their currency is very universal it's kind of like bitcoin it's really it's beautiful everywhere pretty much except for iran at the point
everywhere pretty much separate around at the point
i don't know if i just i was like whoa it was like 60 billion or something 600 billion
it was a crazy yeah they're taking gold gold yeah change yet the other people saw this big
yeah yeah it was kind of real yeah really what's that big boy i didn't see that there's
been a there's been a bit of a conflict. Oh really? Yeah, a bit of a conflict.
A little spot.
Yeah, it's kind of like calm, there's bond filled everywhere.
I didn't even know.
Vang.
I'll be all day.
So they quoted the straights and it moves us where all the oil flows through and more
importantly fertile, they put the corn in.
Yeah, so. But then you want but anyone adult oil trading
but I heard his friend no grub drug is like max loss and 75 yeah
well kill you can miss the odds
I reopen the street.
I'm a big shout out guy.
I want you to shout out.
Shout out Wynn.
Yeah, what else?
Shout out to France.
Shout out how many toes out on stream?
Three toes.
Three toes.
I'm like Palmer Luffy yeah the goal with t-plus
is to get big enough and unavoidable enough i can just wear flip flops in public all the time
and hawaiian shirt with a suit i was thinking hawaiian shirts i just want to adopt pomeroy a lot of common he's a west coast guy so i feel like we probably wouldn't get along
I think
the official Tetris app you can see my name laser was top ten for quite a time
here today like what's the test you have the Tetris I would I played a single
game for half day oh my god I think a girl time be landing man actually playing
measures she's so angry
it doesn't mean much to you but it's never an impressive number
i would say it's like Tetris yeah good decision-making like this faster yeah
yeah so I don't wanna they're looking for you were you providing like max 11
from binary options which are you know a controversial subject in the United
States throughout the world do you think that they'll be able to retain?
these people get it to you. because the UX is phenomenal. I think if they make it faster it's perfect.
they'll have a million users. what if they did sub penny? 10 million.
I feel like if you're playing with serious life for you you're probably going off pretty quickly.
and then if you block on your first go for you, you're probably going to go off pretty quickly. And then if you go off, you're going to go off on your first go-round, your second go-round, your user retention rates will be created as well.
I mean, the long term is, I'd say, better digitalization for buying options, right?
You can use it to buy long-dated options and drag squares.
I think it's been true
um I think like with what you guys doing so it's not a pub
right so easy isn't it yes and I think that's where they are so like if you
look at look at the risk guys they're on B12 yeah it's now gone to the point where they've positioned it and
packaged it in such a way that is accessible so again they're just setting right that's not what
everyone else is positioning it as it's like two companies they're not going to give any time
of day to the channel because then what the hell's going on sure right so more you can just throw
your course uh complex exotic type of product into the
house of the aperture i think that thing then act as a you know
i think that for matchbook marketing for us similar too where like we kind of packed
packages crypt markets and best pricing which is it was really cool
I mean you don't really need to know much about match before you understand that what we're giving you is better access
Yes information to be there. You should be able to learn about how this works in the back end, but you can once we're online
People don't need to know the details. It's just like the best price you're gonna get
It's the most liquid venue. It supports every asset. Come try it out. You're gonna like it. You're gonna get it's the most liquid venue it supports every asset come try it out
you're gonna like it you're gonna stick around yeah people ask me a lot like boy so what's the
draw for like traders like we're not for like not static guys like guys that are using ui's
why would they use this yeah well like you talk to talk to any large trader and they're most of what
they do is they trade leverage on majors and then occasionally they want to buy something weird and having to move funds around is like a horrible i wanted to buy bvv the other day
and i gave up because all my liquidity was on hyperlicular and i just didn't
have to do the breaking and so i missed out on that trade it's been lazy it was a d plus i would
have been lucid so don't like this not being here is he's an edge of itself
like there's been times where like i've literally been in bed always in bed no i'll buy it in the morning i'll buy this in the morning i'm just laughing my laptop shadowy yeah
I was just thinking about it when you guys were talking about it.
yeah shout out asia yeah
I never really thought about it too much, but it's absolutely bananas that most options
protocols in crypto didn't have an options chain, like the terminal.
It wasn't an options chain.
I was like, what?
Like, have you guys ever traded options?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like, why are you putting in there? give me a chart no change oh yeah I
mean that's part of it but it's like still like just do an options change
that yeah options that are like bolt style yeah there are two strikes and
expiry that's that's the amount of like demand there is you know like market makers
don't want to quote crazy edge case well a lot of people like are a few minutes options too you know
and uh yeah even they didn't have an option they were like yeah you can input whatever
strike and uh expire you want to ask for a quote for it that's like so give me an option yeah
if you're gonna assume i'm always requesting a quote and post your quotes Oh, give me an offer. Yeah.
Assume I'm always requesting a quote. I post your quotes next to each strike.
You know, RFQ all the time so I can see.
Well, the request per screen.
If you're good for it, I'm going to drop an in there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Request for stringing.
Mm-hmm.
So outside of the sound.
No trumpet.
Those memories. Outside of the sound. So how's the sound. No Trump. Those memories outside of the South.
So how was the salary?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
That possibly.
Don't worry.
It was concessional.
Oh, right.
You take the ball.
Yeah.
I was.
Shit this week.
I'll just whatever.
I'll just, whatever.
I'll just, whatever. I'll just, right. You take the ball. I was just eating whatever bread.
I don't know if it's going to take like half hour for food to come out or two hours for
food to come out.
So you just don't get food.
I mean, if you keep going to meetings with that you know just forget to eat yeah yeah by the end of the day yeah literally like
oh yeah i had like seven blocks of organ glory yeah i believe i think because i was like i don't
know where i'm next gonna get any sort of like fun nutrition stopping your face i was just okay
i had like a fish of malware i love your podcast bro
my wife i love your podcast bro like we've seen like his father's uh
fucking deb connect with him i don't know why i just ate steaks and drank red wine the entire
time and had zero water because they didn't have water anywhere and ate no vegetables yeah
we literally what i would say is we did very well yeah yeah we even did a nice day we did
yeah yeah that's great we have a lot of each other yeah what do you guys
know about highlights of the week like anything likes to go to you I mean like
insights or trends you see
revolving credit lines yes revolving revolving credit lines. Give me a revolver, Dave.
If only there was something out there.
Oh, yeah.
It messaged me early.
I had a stream.
I'd like to shoot up.
I don't have time.
I'm sure it's all.
Yeah.
My advisor just called to it.
It's like, fuck it.
It's going everywhere. That's it. That is actually what I meant to be. I'd rather have sit next to me on a couch yeah let's talk about dating in new york like right away so we asked her right away like you guarantee that third day
that's why you go wrong yeah yeah really nice girl uh we're on the second day we're in central park we're walking her dog
and she asked me my boat and i thought it was good and i was like i did the whole spiel like
you know there wasn't really anyone else to vote for
and the date you know kept going well i didn't really have much confidence in kamala
but we don't align politically we don't see eye to eye it was a really big learning lesson
for basically now i'm uh how's the right voter
it's a really good guy yeah i've been doing it's a good trend
you want me to get right i think the number one tried you still
and then the second one's probably moved to pushing i don't know if you find her wife
you'll definitely get a lot of kids how do you uh how do you navigate being in this industry yeah and then the second one's probably moved to bushing i don't know if you find her wife
how do you uh how do you navigate being in this industry as a single man yeah is that good show because i feel like this is not an issue i have um it's been married up for a long time
i've played many times quite difficult as soon as you drop the c word
it's a tricky one yeah i went on a different date with this girl recently. She was cool. She was from Mexico City, Charlotte, Mexico.
Yeah.
You call me Nintendo, too.
Yeah, it was.
Thanks for having that.
All right.
All right.
All right.
My first date is wonderful.
It's really nice.
She texted me. I told her I've done a lot of mushrooms. I don't do much anymore but i've done mushrooms
yeah also somehow we came off and i'm on the scene and she texted me like you know i we were
setting up the second day and she's like you know normally crypto and shrooms are a huge red flag
so i texted back it's a picture of a stick figure guy but his head is replaced with red flag and i wrote literally me when i tell a girl i work in crypto and i didn't get a third day
so yeah i think i've changed my title now to um building a financial future for a better world
i thought you're the ceo of sex cex centralized exchange software yeah Yeah. Also that CEO of sex.
I believe so. I have not been on it. I am a Zoran supporter. I've not been on
muzzhuz. I do love like I have a taxidermy. And it was really cool.
John, you know, it was good because we were reading that. Yeah, which is how
they got you know, it was all locals. joint you know it was good because all the uber average yeah which is how they got you know it was all locals i was the only gringo in the restaurant
and i walked in and i obviously did not fit in super i was wearing a blue oxford
button-down shirt tucked into my dress pants and i walked into this joint it was like la I didn't know. Couldn't tell.
I got there before.
I walked out. I went to my car.
He's like, oh, I'm here. I'm going to go with me, too.
I just got there. I walked back in to the restaurant because I was so intimidated.
Not that they're scary people.
I didn't speak
English.
When I was living in L.A.,
and L.A., it's just all Chinese.
And like the best Chinese student I ever have.
Me and my friend, she's Chinese, on Christmas, we go get hot pot from San Gabriel.
And like, all, everything's in Mandarin.
We walk in, there's not a white dude in a 5-mile radius.
We walk in to this place, and the only white dude there is the best hot ever had you know shout out china you know you know like they're in the 80s they're advertising
uh like east la uh in china to people everybody to come over there like you don't even speak
like learn english you can just like so yeah that's heck yeah we tried to horse down with
yeah i went to flushing the other day for the first time dude
i don't think of east l.a so much plus i had a friend in crypto who uh chinese guys speaks for
evadron and he's like oh let me take your question i'm born and raised and i've spent a lot of time
in china town but i've never really been in flushing so he takes me to join just like a
schedule i'm doing and i at the time to look at the time, was going to a Szechuan joint for real attention.
Yeah.
But I didn't, however, discover that day for the first time, plum juice.
Which if you haven't had plum juice, it's great.
You know you get the hot wings, they serve your milk.
Yeah.
Plum juice is like superior to milk.
It's incredible.
Yeah.
We can go to the restaurant, like Dave said, I'm the only green go in the store.
No white people for miles.
And these orders are full of matter.
And so the food comes, I have no idea what I'm eating. And I chomping down it's really spicy it's basically kind of crunching my name
oh it's a chicken yeah yeah damn these are really good I just watched out I'm just gonna talk It's quite a bit of experience. um i don't know whether you've ever been like harabee and table they have such an interesting
as a white boy which walking up the germanican guy he's like what you want
and like my friend to this real say that you is not sure like rice that you want it
i grew up in fly bush that's two stick ghettos so there's a Jewish ghetto and a Caribbean the Caribbean ghettos we've all become the coolest neighborhood in New York the Jewish
ghettos they've all the most stayed in the morning ghetto of New York it's a very different ghettos
but up there's a pepist jerk chicken which is fire I've got a bunch of location now the OG
it's on Flaabush Avenue right before I get near where I grew up
Yeah, where I grew up
By somebody
Yeah, this is a vanilla question
Sorry before you guys yeah, I grew up in a lot of shabby J where I grow up and
There's the father the car piece of his brains the number one cheese in the
world by day four okay the old man dong was such a G he didn't pay tax ever and
then they're IRS closing down and there was such an uproar and they closed down
the CJ the IRS sending his taxes because it's actually chill you don't need to pay
them true story you can google it I mean you open his pizza I didn't pay the taxes because it's actually chill you don't need to pay them
it's a true story you can google it i mean you open his pizza i didn't pay the taxes
it was my favorite pizza road was ranked nine two at the time that's true the highest day wow ever but then the old man passed away r.i.p dom what a legend and just takes to go for anything
corporate life just like frozen to park fell off of class my old answer would have been to far
is not only because i lived
like 10 blocks in there growing up but also jadama g it was the best piece in the world but now it's
in my hometown there's a place that i had an 8.9 yeah jersey pizza's crazy columbia
it was they had a very special thin dress pizza and he goes on this you know he does the thing did quite know it because it's only
I think better yeah yeah great take my wife my ladies is from the june she spent a lot of time on it cheers yeah yeah yeah
i think there's a displacement with like my music so i've like traveled on the app and I'm like, I'm going to go to the sports industry.
And I think you like bar pizza better than me.
I like a boardwalk slug.
That's my favorite pizza.
I'm a foreign race brookman.
I love brookman pizza.
I'm going to give you my first recommendation.
Things are pretty buggy rec.
But I like Detroit pizza.
And in fact, I'm'm gonna say even one more
thing Pizza Hut crazy whoa pizza they do it for us Detroit style
yeah cheese sauce then you put the pepperoni on it and that takes it to
the next level and if you want to go crazy you know everyone's talking about
honey what we do is get super soft so that's the hot pepperoni and you play pineapple yeah that's hot honey that's
true honey everyone that likes hot honey on pizza like it's crazy when you put
pineapple on pizza it's totally wrong yeah there's just great pizza places
that's what LP pizza yeah I like it I like my favorite it is gonna be
beaded but beaded was my favorite pizza they do South Brooklyn and kind of your park, your crossing park. But Beaded
was my favorite pizza. They do sourdough pizza.
So it's a thin crust, jerk style slice, but it's sourdough.
Oh! As opposed to traditional pizza
and it's phenomenal. But a good
friend of mine growing up in New York, shout out Ari.
Shout out Ari. Shout out Ari.
He's a restaurateur in my neighborhood right here on the South
Brooklyn and he recently opened up a pizza shop
called S-E-O-R.
It's a huge shout out. S-E-O-R. S-E-O- you shot out seo are a sore pizza sore pizza's bomb he did with the weed he got
the recipes another pizza man and then he like just turned it up just the best I
Biggest
They haven't got their new they're open up like for three months. Oh, sorry, and
My favorite slice bar is with Gia's.
She's great.
Best vodka slice I've ever had.
Well, not really, like vodka sauce, not Dane
in Southern Italy.
And they're not Dane growing up.
So like, yeah.
Vodka sauce, so or also doesn't go.
Yeah.
Hello.
So Josh is going to do the five minute moment.
So I'm going to do something really
engaged when you do it like this shit.
We'll go around with you first.
What do you think the next six months look like to you initially?
Sentiment-wise, market-wise, where do you think we're out, where do you think we're
going?
I think the institutional and financial need to accelerate.
I think I see Southernized Aquinas just take more and more of our concern.
If you have the volume and attention, then you're going to be able to do a lot of cool stuff.
And yeah, the continued institutionalism of the space, but at the same time,
as crypto neighbors, you have to kind of like, not come to terms or like
how can we maintain our values and maintain our
e-posts while catering to this new crap?
Like Ben can totally, you know,
but yeah, I think we'll still push those regulations,
especially as we look at the upset but uh as we move towards
our waz reports trading oil and a gap of all these trading coins um my change is that i think we've
had a bunch of really interesting i would say t-plus do this is obviously t-plus is decentralized
especially but like through a new we've innovative all of them technology i think we can actually go
ahead as well as like centralized regulated entities to the ability to social believe in us.
I think it's going to be really interesting to see how the furniture goes, watch these
decentralized products.
RWA, for its oil and gold, things that actually impact the real world.
It's like, why do we need this regulation?
Because it impacts the real world, it impacts the actual people's daily lives.
Trading Bitcoin, trading, you know, property that day, whatever, doesn't really impact
the other people's lives. It's like, okay, fine, but, doesn't really impact, you know, the other supplies.
It's like, okay, fine, but we don't really need, we don't need to do anything.
Like, when it impacts regular supplies, I think it'll be really interesting to see both that on the centralized side, but also how it will be.
So I agree with Dave, I think it's going to be a merger.
How do we, like, go into the production? I'm going to tell you what. You're going to have a boss now. All right, fine.
I think there's a parallel universe of developing between permission and permissionless,
KY and KYCless,
and I think that you're going to see a shift
where people start getting all the advantages
they might want from a KYC venue
and the advantages of going
to their split venue.
And so you'll see the KYC side development between the NQs, the long chain and the rate
of the display.
And then you'll see a mirror image, the same liquidity and exhibition, so it becomes more
atomically accessible. And then in terms of macro, I think that we see a bad job sprint.
And I think the next couple of jobs, friends, look scary.
I think foil does not get resolved in the near term.
I think the price of everything gets more expensive and it's not too expensive.
And that's going to have to respond.
And I think growth gets even further so that's
the that's the trade i put on for a bear um a lot of my opinions have already been said
i'll go on the more technical side i think for excusing environments take up a lot it is an
incredible tech and you can build really cool stuff with it so i see i think we see a lot of innovation and uh decentralized trading venues
and uh decentralized products and uh people tighten up their act a lot especially with like
the weird uh we're not a hedge fund we're a we're a risk manager uh things that are running around
and have proliferated and created these like crazy days
there's all these different things that I think I think my point is I think we're
gonna see a lot of churn I mean I think we're gonna see some people leave these
go things on competitive and there's and to see. And yeah, I think we're going to see new exciting venues.
Also, I think options are going to play.
Yeah, especially like, oh, one of the things
I'm most excited for about two of us
is we're going to have spam margin.
We're going to have spam margin one day.
And we'll be able to press parts and options
and leverage positions.
And that'll create really interesting getting
strategies that you can do with uh with the good
football equipment
i would say like it on a more generous level
like in a weird way, kind of moving spirits,
it's a dog shit. And it's really interesting that I was going through the school there,
like four people in private conversations said to me in the last four hour, these are
words scary and I think how do you get that really unsentimented enough?
Like in person, like what's the highest signal now to get the cheaper,
then that's the figure of the money and the after things that it's doing really useful so you can trade the value information
as well the great we are and i think that we are in a better position than editing
in terms of growing the industry but it just feels like it's because six again yeah that's the other one great yeah
yeah uh before you do that can i have one more point sure um i think one of the things that i'm
extremely excited about is uh those little tags on the table i don't say that but like one of the
uh i don't say that but like one of the one of the advantages that centralized
Australians have always had over indexes is uh they have kyc which means that they can
give like accounts for features that can't be simple so they have pretty good similar
resistance to kyc um and it's not accessible you can buy a identity for 10 bucks um but i
think that stuff like this that is actually a civil resistant uh identity product
is going to make trading that you super interesting because you could start offering
that cases that are tied to someone's identity and someone can't spin up like 100 different
accounts to access so rate limits are a great example like rate limits are a great example
uh rate limits are really hard problem for decentralized venues because they have limited
networking um but if you can give someone a higher rate limit because they can prove that they're like an actual team they don't
have to kind of counseling um yeah that's really cool so the intersection there's going to be fun
go ahead yes no question yes no the tokens come back yes yes no yes all right there we go not
the existing tokens unless the existing tokens start to whopping their charter game profitable We will come up either side.
We will come up either side.
But I think that every time a stock is going to be profitable.
I think stocks are going to become tokens. yeah i think like on the token things i know we've got faces on the people yeah it's like
there's so much it's not to watch out of the video like 2020 i mean blazing like the low flow i thought it's still there right and it's got the teams that
are still best in the next three four five yeah so they're like they are completely
out i would go like i wouldn't say that any tokens that do come to market now best have
like a direct or not actually exist sure if AI actually needs to exist.
Anyone who's just like a lazy,
I like that.
Layers on the playbook of yesterday.
They will be dead.
You have to have a reason to buy it.
You have to be a reason.
Well, it's got AI in the end.
Yeah, that works.
That works in stock.
What do you mean? Have you seen Tensive?
Hot take.
Hot take.
What do you want to give one more shot or two?
Oh, man.
Shout out to Ellie.
Ellie, my boy.
Yeah.
Shut up.
Oh, man.
Thanks, guys.
Thanks, guys.
See ya.
Bye.
