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Live now ICP X Data
Recorded: June 25, 2025 Duration: 0:29:28Space Recording
Short Summary
In a dynamic discussion, key players in the crypto space unveiled exciting project launches, including a new lending protocol leveraging Dfinity's Chain Fusion technology, aimed at enhancing liquidity management. The conversation also touched on strategic partnerships, growth indicators, and emerging trends in decentralized finance, signaling a vibrant future for cross-chain innovations.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. guys here we go x i don't know what to you guys, but we need to build our own platform that we actually adopt.
We've been having this same issue for months.
But here we are.
So, I guess the last speaker, Ryan, I wanted you to talk.
Can you, are you up here on the podium?
I accepted you.
It should be coming up.
We will try this, guys. If it doesn't work, we will have to reschedule part two.
If Ryan is not able to speak, we can go over to Jay.
Up really quickly
um yeah to wrap up uh there's reserved liquidity in the world and blockchains don't account for it and um we use Dfinity and some interesting cryptography uh infrastructure to allow
blockchains to know where liquidity is and do defy on it basically
but all yours jake
very nice thank you for that jay tell us
so what's the specific question again sorry i i with all of the new spaces, I kind of lost.
actual space?
How are you guys contributing to this?
How is it helping with your liquidity?
Talk a little bit about what you guys are offering
and how the technology is actually enabling
what you guys are doing.
Sure, sure.
Yeah, I mean, for the WTF product,
we are using ICP's Chain Fusion on the lending side.
So everybody who is familiar with Bitcoin layer one,
it's not as easy to spin up
simple smart contracts like on evms or evm or on solana so we had to try a different approach
and so we work with um dlc's discrete law contracts to basically escrow um to these to decentral decentraly escrow the the assets right and um before exploring or using
um icp um the lender basically had to do more steps um to lend out his bitcoin or her bitcoin so the lender just the tdr lender put up the offer off chain um the borrower
accepted and as this is like a psbt a partially signed bitcoin transaction the lender always had
to sign again meaning it wasn't as capital efficient as we wanted to borrower had to wait
for lenders to accept their loans most of or sometimes um like a 10 to
15 percent rate people just didn't accept the loans um so we implemented icps chain fusion
so on the wtf side um chain fusion is used in a way that lenders basically have their kind of it's not smart as of right now but a lending vault where they deposit native btc
and the um this vault um basically helps the lender to sign transactions on their behalf
um just uh for for people wonder wondering about a vault we don't have any access to the world only
wonder wondering about a vault we don't have any access to the world only the lender um has access
to the wall we also spun up a recovery tool so if liquidium is down um due to some reason which we
make sure that is it isn't going down people can still retrieve the funds from um that vault and
this basically improved capital efficiency by a lot because people
now can take instant loans on runes so borrowers just come to the platform say hey i want to
for example collateralize my dog borrow 0.1 btc against it and they can do it with one
click we are soon rolling that out um for the owner side this is in in testing right now and this will be going live around about two
weeks one and a half to two weeks um and that's the wtf site on the on the liquidium five side
slash crushing on site it's different right so we have the approach here that we do have great lending protocol as aave on on eth um camino on on solana but there is basically
like there they haven't been good attempts to solve these cross-chain loans problems right so
right now we see that a lot of liquidity is siloed in the ecosystem so a lot of illiquities in evm a lot of liquidity is
on bitcoin um there's like a different scenario because there the liquidity is um mostly locked
up by a lot of people just holding bitcoin and not doing stuff with it and obviously we got a
lot of liquidity on solana so what we are using chain fusion for there is exactly um that what
radu mentioned is that we use chain fusion as a piece chain fusion in the back um so people come
they deposit bitcoin for example they want to borrow usdc or usdt against it on eth for and
those people it will be a smooth process um two clicks and we abstract all of the complexity um in the background with
chain fusion and this is in my opinion really strong because now people can come to our platform
um use bdc borrow eth against it use eth or bdc against it like they're like a lot of um different um yeah possibilities
on how to play stuff or how to use the platform and obviously we also um yeah this is also um
it's really important for us we we designed it in a way that it looks like a a swap so um yeah swapping looks nice but we wanted
to um yeah bring this to borrowing and lending so as i said before to everybody check out the demo
and give us obviously feedback um but that's how we um use chain fusion on both
That's how we use Chainfusion on both ends.
And yeah, I'm excited for cross-chain loans
as I think or as we think this opened up
so many great possibilities.
And just imagine someone in a country
where the currency, like I'm from Europe,
but I'm getting dollars as my salary,
but someone who's in a different country, right?
And it's getting the local currency and the currency, for example,
is inflating a lot, they can just be paid in Bitcoin,
hedge against their local currency and borrow USDC or USDT against it
to pay their monthly expenses.
So that would be one use case, for example.
Yeah, that's basically the TDR.
Very nice.
So we have like these cross-chain instant loans
and I could do something with my runes.
I've been holding that for a bit.
Very nice.
You can, but just to summarize this. So so wtf liquidium wtf is live right
now it's for runes orders and bsc20s this is the one side this is happening on bitcoin layer one
cross chain loans has nothing to do with runes ordinals or bsc20s it's more focused on the bigger
fungible tokens like bitcoin like eth and so on that's
why we do use different colors and so on to really um draw that line that there are two products out
there one is bitcoin layer one focus and the other one is obviously bitcoin layer one focus we always
see bitcoin as its core but it taps into other ecosystems.
Very nice. Thanks for that. Totally makes sense now. I got it. I got it. I will definitely play with it, demo and give you some feedback.
Shadow, do you want to go next? And then I'm going to hand it over to Zeya after.
You want to talk a little bit about how ChainSight is using ChainFusion
using Chainfusion, and you could even touch on how we're working with everybody here today.
and you could even touch on how we're working with everybody here today.
Yeah, definitely.
So, I mean, it's similar in premise to how we are working with ICP, where any improvement
to the other stack ultimately just makes our end product better.
makes our end product better. So the more chains and the better, like the more
seamless that experience is between these different ecosystems, ultimately the
better it is for the data that we're able to provide across the different
applications. Obviously everyone, like all of the builders you know are I see the
focus as well so happen a lot these capabilities but yeah I guess this
answer is a bit more simple because it's already like the ICP stack is already
embedded pretty heavily into what we're doing. So any improvements thereafter is basically just like an upgrade to Chain Sight in a way.
Very nice.
You're still a little bit choppy, but I did hear most of that.
I hope that everybody else could hear most of that as well.
Zeya, do you want to talk a little bit about what you guys are doing with Chain Fusion or anything that you want to share?
Yes, yes, I'd love to.
I'll tell a little story.
I think it will bring everything right around.
We were, I always wanted to, I basically, I love index funds like the s&p 500 or whatever else
and i i really wanted that but uh like a decentralized version for crypto and i really
wanted to build it but uh sorry i really wanted to like just invest into it and just forget about it
um i'm not one of these stock pickers who like researches researches into tokens and stuff like
that and i'm like if it was auto rebalanced and uh maybe like
even a dividend structure just like the srp 500 it would be ideal for me um but nothing really like
that existed from a decentralized perspective so then i went to a hackathon and i that was the
original idea and then i got into the bitcoin startup lab and in the bitcoin startup lab is
when yarn from the definitive foundation came in uh and talked about canisters and me and my
co-founder at that time we were using a different blockchain called Stax and this was in the
beginning of 2024 so this was a year and a half ago and then they were like you have these canisters
and they have like they explained to us how it works but more importantly how it connects to different chains at the time i thought to myself we may be able to do cross-chain on-chain auto rebalancing and to
me that was always the biggest thing because no one it just wasn't possible so a little bit forward on to today um we obviously we use change fusion technology but i think most
people are forgetting how useful a change fusion technology is i'll give an example of how we do it
so when you do the rebalancing with the sb 500 for example every quarter a bad company gets out i.e
drops out of the top 500 and a good company gets in into the top 500 and we want to do the same thing with the top 10 cryptocurrencies so the position number 10 gets out position number 11
is now in number 10 you know depending on the market cap uh and that and uh we finally figured
out if we use canisters we can use canisters and then those uh we could we figured out a way where you we can connect it to its its
separate dexes so for example we could connect to like uniswap with ethereum based tokens and we
can buy and sell it when we have to rebalance our collateral and we can do the same thing with phantom
and we do the same thing with ton we can do the same thing with we figured out how to do it with
six layer ones um and that was like a big deal for us because now we could do on-chain
auto rebalancing of the top 10 cryptocurrencies and it was only possible with chain fusion
technology and we were very lucky to be like uh to be in that pre-accelerator it was called the
bitcoin startup lab liquidium was in there as well like uh in our previous cohort but that like this
technology came about and me and my co-founder were just
looking for it because we knew we had to use a layer zero and um definitely doesn't really
advertise themselves as a layer zero but really the cancer infrastructure allows you to connect
to these different blockchains and in my personal opinion the biggest problem with all of web3
blockchain crypto whatever you want to call it is number one the ease of use and number two
interoperability a new user coming in doesn't know what the hell interoperability is they don't
understand why you can't swap solana for bitcoin or bitcoin for ethereum whatever it just doesn't
make any sense and to be honest with you they're kind of right about it like in web2 world
everything is nice and simple and we have to make it that simple with with the championship technology that icp is
offering we can definitely make it a lot simpler uh obviously liquidium is doing uh well hopefully
i can't wait to see their um cross-chain uh lending platform that's going to be really
really interesting obviously we're doing cross-chain uh auto rebalancing of index funds
um and that's almost then we have users using it right now and
can't wait to allow everyone to use it but yeah that's one way that we're using chain fusion
technology um hopefully that my story wasn't too long but yeah no very good i always love to hear
like these like hackathon dev stories like and how people get started. Yeah, it always takes me back.
I've been to a few of those and watched people like evolve in the space.
Ryan, I want to bring it back to you because we kind of got cut off like right in the middle.
And I know that you guys are using like Usher Labs, right?
The ZKTLS tech.
That's how you're utilizing ICP, correct?
That is correct.
So I want to talk a little bit about that yeah yeah definitely definitely so icp has a has a default mechanic for sourcing data
into your canisters and for any builder that's unfamiliar with the term canister it's smart
contract with on steroids right um so you can source this data, except the way it does this sourcing mechanic is
super decentralized, which is fantastic.
But at the same time, compromise is on privacy, right?
And so we do, we incorporated this cryptographic primitive would you know mpctls or zktls more commonly known
uh to the icp as a way to say okay like if we want to learn how much money you're banking without
revealing that data to the blockchain and only a specific portion of that amount you want to reveal
to a smart contract then you could do this with complete and utter privacy.
And this is generally the premise around the infrastructure that's powering Fiat protocol,
but also, you know, that's connecting private data to the internet computer.
And with respect to like Chainfusion as well, you can syndicate that data to literally any chain. So Chainfusion plays a big role in not only like asset management, like what Zaya is referring to,
but also state management, right?
You can tell Ethereum and Arbitrum
the same thing with the same proof verification
and you get synchronicity across chains.
So yeah, there's quite a few interesting things
that are unique to this particular ecosystem.
Yeah, very nice.
I know that you guys have been working with Chainsight and I had,
we've listened to some of the recordings that you had with Shadow.
And yeah, it's amazing what like this entire ecosystem is actually enabling
as far as, you know, all of it, you touched upon it in various levels.
And it always goes back to so that we can have that seamless user experience,
like at the end of the day. And for the builders as well, between scalability, interoperability,
the privacy aspects, right? I think it's all intertwined. I want to finish up because it's
kind of like the last quarter. And I always like to give everybody an opportunity. And thank you guys for,
you know, staying with us through like the tech issue and having to come back on that always kind
of cuts off like the energy, but you guys were able to hop right back on. And the good thing is
this is recorded. So a lot of the people that dropped off, I get a lot of people that listen
later and we do get feedback. So it's always good to have on the timeline. I wanted to end with like
this last quarter, giving you guys the opportunity to kind of give a little bit of what's going on as far
as your roadmap, what people can look forward to. So that these anybody who listens now listens
later, they can join the communities. There's always, you know, a way to onboard new people,
whether it's a builder, whether it's a direct user, and so that people can kind of like,
look forward to what you guys have next.
So anything you want to share in the roadmap, go ahead.
We can start with who wants to go first. You can just, the space is open,
open up your mic and go ahead.
I could always call on people as well. Okay. Jay, your turn.
GM, GM again. Um, yeah.
So anything to say? Yeah. I mean,
most importantly for us or for the community here and for the people is really,
um, try out the cross chain loans demo. i think i can voice that um from our side we are really
like supportive we have a good support structure set up you can join us in our discord you can
follow us on x the cream wtf and liquidium 5 or just dm us try to answer all of the messages but
man i'm excited to to build on the ic and to to leverage that um also shout out to
radu i met him twice in zurich um yeah really like just for people in the audience really how icp
is doing it and tried like managing their um investor relations really great to see and you
feel understood and so on i think that's really important if you want to build on the tech layer right um yeah so really try out um the demo
that is what you think and man i'm excited to launch that go to market and um yeah also explore different different ways um on how to maybe collaborate yes that's it from my side
awesome definitely we'll try out the demo and give some feedback on that jay
let's let's let radu speak since you kind of introduced him rod do tell us a little bit
you know what's ahead what other integrations maybe for chain fusion or
whatever you want to share yeah so the cool stuff about and by the way thanks jay i mean it's a
pleasure interacting with every single one of you uh on a daily basis we get so much energy from from
all the builders in in our ecosystem so shout out to to all of you here um it's great working with you um so yeah the
cool thing about us is that our roadmap is uh completely public so anyone that wants to check
it out you can go on internetcomputer.org roadmap um so the the immediate milestones milestones are related to the Solana integration and to VET keys.
So VET keys are a feature that allows basically privacy protection and privacy preservation on chain, fully on chain.
So that's something that is coming up, like both them are coming up in within the next uh month
for the long term uh stuff i mean we have the the caffeine events coming up mid uh mid july in san
francisco i'll be there a lot of people from the finiti will be there so if you're in uh the san
francisco area make sure that you you join us for the launch of
uh caffeine we also have an interesting uh hackathon happening there um so yeah i think those
are the the the immediate roadmap uh items and in general yeah i I think for Chain Fusion related stuff, we usually, yeah, just to mention, we have a Bitcoin working group that meets monthly.
And actually, most of the ideas of what is being implemented on a protocol level kind of come from that working group related to Chainfusion.
So make sure you join us.
You can find it in the events calendar.
It's first Thursday of each month.
So yeah, I think that's pretty much it.
But it's very hard to talk about ICP's roadmap
because I could probably talk for an hour only about that
we'll have to have you back then caffeine is the ai uh innovation right or am i tripping here i
think i've read something about exactly exactly exactly so you can check out uh definities twitter
handle you can check out uh the demo that happened on June 3rd during the World Computer
Summit. So yeah, that's something that it's immediate. And I urge everyone to check it out
because I think it's another game changer after Infusion.
Very nice. We'll have to have you back then. We had an AI space one. It was very successful. We
had a lot of people and it was a good network. We have a lot of DMs there. And a lot of this, guys, I hope that you guys also get the value, like the network effects when we do these. It's very helpful. And like builders supporting builders as well. Plus users. We get a lot of different new people into the community this way as well. I think I'll hand it over. Shadow, is your service a little better?
I would love for you to talk.
Hello.
Hopefully this works.
Yep, it's better.
Okay.
Yeah, so we were hearing a lot about indexes
from indices from ZEA.
So that kinda actually segues a bit
into some of the stuff in our roadmap. so that kind of actually segues a bit into
some of the stuff
so what we're
going to be working on
rolling out onto
chains
certain chains which are to be announced
is basically
a more
an extension of the original
index feed framework
that we had built back in as far back as 2023,
like late 2023.
On the first chain sites,
like the composition and gravity features
was this concept of like a single feed
which could house the logic
for any arbitrary index so any combination of assets fitted with like any methodology
and any rebalancing trigger so the direction we're going in with this is a bit more of the exotic side of indices.
So what if you could have baskets, data feed, like certain narrative baskets or macro factors.
So yeah, we're going into a more exotic direction when it comes to indices.
I'm looking to get that given the space that we're in with the more exotic we're
I'm looking to get that.
looking to get into the more speculative features of that so a teaser I can drop
there is on the future trading side of the markets and generally just giving
users a way to get exposure into these more exotic indices.
Very good.
I was able to hear that, but I'm just going to repeat it in case anybody didn't.
Basically, you'll be able to long, short, entire RWA baskets or whatever it is,
DeFi baskets.
Very cool. And looking forward to seeing more of this
as it evolves and becomes public as they build. As you guys know, we have Sean Pay, our CTO,
he's actually worked on this methodology for a long time with the researchers over at University
of Keiko in Japan. So they have these PhDs, they write research,
and all of this methodology is available.
We have it on Medium as well.
I'm going to hand it over to Zeya.
Tell us a little bit about what you have coming up,
some roadmap, and then Ryan will finish this off,
and then the hour is over, guys.
Thank you so much.
Yeah, thanks. what's coming up a lot is coming up where obviously
testnet is available for everyone more importantly we're going to allow more users to start using our
mainnet and with our mainnet features it's it's amazing like we're the only people who are able
to have like like a decentralized asset managers
like BlackRock but you can see everything on chain and stuff like that so uh yeah um we did a lot of
customer interviews and my goodness that took a long time but what we uh realized from that is
yes people want the top 10 cryptocurrencies uh in one sort of ETF but they also want uh specific
chains so we have we're going to do an auto
rebalanced uh top 10 solano tokens top 20 top 10 bmb tokens you know so instead of just uh picking
and choosing you can just chain on you can just pick the chain that you think is going to go
forward and that'll be it but that's something that we're going to be working on but again please
guys remember the testnet is available for everyone if If you want to use the mainnet, get in touch with us on Twitter primarily,
and we'll definitely figure out a way that you can start using the mainnet with real crypto.
I do want to say I met Radu and Jay in Zurich a couple of weeks ago at the World Computer.
It was great meeting to see if you, Radu particularly, because my goodness, that was an introduction.
He knows what I'm talking about.
And Jay as well, it was great meeting you.
But yeah, at Bit10, we're gonna be building.
And plus, what...
My goodness, I always forget his name, Shadow.
Oh my goodness.
I've been on so many calls with him, I always forget his name. But yeah, what he just said about
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