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LIVESTREAM with THORChain Co-Founder Chad Barraford #182
Recorded: March 19, 2026 Duration: 2:13:51Space Recording
Full Transcription
Mexican up there.
Check him out.
Look at his shirt.
Look at that smile.
It's unbelievable.
I'm so happy you're here, brother.
I hope you guys are having a great week.
I'm going to go ahead and kick it to my main man, Kenton.
What's going on, Kenton?
Hey, man.
Good.
I was telling the guys earlier, listeners, I think we should skip our intro because there's
probably a lot we got to talk about and go over.
Maybe just a quick update for me on the marketing side um um sorry i'm getting moving
forward with getting the thort chain data in there um and so when you search now when you search by
revenue like you type in top 20 protocols by revenue i think thort chain comes in ninth or
tenth i forget depending how it's measured so um and and I got to finish going through all the Masari,
double check everything, make sure it's right.
We're showing up, we're popping up, but we're getting there.
It's almost done.
And the website, the .org site, hopefully it'll be done.
I'm hoping by the end of the month, maybe even next week.
We'll see.
It's just, we're so close,
but these little design things keep going back and forth.
It's like little things need to be fixed.
And then, yeah, maybe I'll zip it there.
And we all know Chad,
but maybe we'll get Alux to do a little quick intro of himself
and say hi to the community.
Hi everyone.
Alux here, co-founder of Maya Protocol.
Also contributed to ThorChain for some time now.
And yeah, happy to be here.
Glad you're here.
So the big news everyone wants to talk about is Nine Realms.
I've had a bunch of DMs.
I hear somebody typing.
I don't know who that is.
Denny?
And people on Twitter, people on Discord, everyone has questions.
What's going on?
So I'm really glad Alix and Chad, you guys take the time there to talk to us
and the community about it.
And, you know, just, you know, I trust everything's okay.
Maybe you can, I don't know which one of you guys want to start, but kind of maybe just,
maybe some people don't even know the news yet.
Maybe just kind of recap what's going on.
Well, yeah, Nine Ramos has been involved with ThorChain for a while.
During the development of ThorChain, it kind of, during this adolescent period, it needed
kind of some grown-up accompaniment, and they did that job very well as stewards of ThorChain
for some while.
ThorChain has continued to develop and mature mature and it's now ready to be a tad
more decentralized also in the development and management process as it already is in
the actual chains and operations of it.
So yeah, Lightroom has been great and developed a lot and done a lot but i'm also excited of how this opens up a new chapter
for many ecosystem contributors to also get more involved uh in the in the direction fortune is
going so uh that's like i guess my take uh chad i'm not sure what you'd like to add
yeah so night realms has been around for a long time. I don't know when it started really off the top of my mind.
I remember I met – Gavin was the one that started it.
I think it was like – I want to say 2021 if I'm not mistaken.
Yes.
And Gavin started it because he was just a big Thorchad initially, and he just loved what we were doing, loved the problem we were trying to solve, and wanted to help from a different perspective.
So initially it started on the idea of doing like institutional liquidity, right?
That was like the founding kind of notion was that the Nine Realms wanted to play a role predominantly just trying to pull institutions into this kind of liquidity on ThorChain.
And that didn't end up working out so well, that particular thing, for numerous reasons, which I don't even necessarily need to get into.
But, like, GABA is such a positive person and just wanted to contribute in any ways possible.
So they raised, you know, funding to build this new company called Nine Realms.
And they just wanted to contribute in any way, shape, or form that would be beneficial to the protocol.
beneficial to the protocol.
And over the years, like what they've been doing
for a while is I think like three or four things
primarily, development work, running infrastructure,
some biz dev stuff, and then what was the other one?
Oh, running nodes and like infrastructure
and that kind of stuff.
And we're now like kind of stepping back from, from them being running as much as what they were running.
So the nodes, for example, those, the bond providers are going to be moving to other, other nodes out there and kind of having just redistributing those people to a larger group of operators, which is kind of further decentralized in that particular context.
Which nodes they go to is up to them.
Like, I don't have control over those people.
They can do whatever the hell they want, right?
So, but, you know, we'll be reaching out to them and giving them opportunities of contact
information for individuals who run nodes as a service.
The infrastructure thing is being, like, that's like it's like running like you know public thornode you know apis and dashboards uh snapshots for like syncing up a
node like just kind of various miscellaneous things a lot of that's being uh kind of moved
over to liquify some of that being moved over to um to the maya team helping out in this kind of
context um the biz dev stuff we got you know we
just we just have a new hire that's it's going full at it uh so i'm really happy to get a you
know fresh pair eyes breathe some new life into into uh biz that like i've been doing biz dev
myself as well lately i've i've probably done more biz dev like meetings and calls uh with other
projects than i think nanromams has probably done in the last
six months or maybe even a year possibly it's like like we're really like invigorating some new kind of lifeblood into that kind of aspect of the of the project and the development side
like we haven't uh we had about one and a half or one and a tenth developers uh from
nine realms working predominantly ursa uh and then then I think Apollo was spending maybe like 10% of his time
working on Thorchain-related things.
Ursa myself, I'm so sorry to lose him.
He's a great guy.
I've known him for years.
Just all-around good character, strong worker.
He's been working half-time for the last, I don't know,
I want to say a year or two
i'm not sure how long it's been going on but but in any case like we have new hires already uh we
have more engineering talent coming into the into the protocol than there's you know exiting uh and
so i think you know while it's not a good thing or a great thing that nine rooms is leaving
we are already poised to to have a smooth transition on all fronts, on nodes,
on business development, on infrastructure, on development. All that's already been handled,
and everything's been having a smooth process, you know, over the next, was it 45 days, I think,
until 9RMS has their official exit. So obviously, we're very appreciative of the contributions
they've made over the past few years. Sorry to to see them go in one sense but also we're ready for it
and another absolutely yeah and i think one of the founding things we've always talked about
chad i mean especially you is you know thor chain's development should never be centralized
contingent on one team right um and so the ability for us to transition like this in a really harmless and seamless way is just, I think, a really bullish catalyst.
Really cool.
Alex, I see you're back, buddy.
You want to check your mic?
Make sure you're looking good over there.
Awesome.
Oh, good.
Sorry about that.
Don't worry about it, man.
Should be better.
No, you're totally good.
Did you have anything you wanted to add, Alex?
No, I think those are the main points.
Maya will also be a little bit more involved.
We were already with TCY a little bit more inside ThorChain,
and that has only grown over time.
One of the devs that Chad is mentioning
that will be involved on Thor note comes from Maya.
We're very happy to see him contribute to the father chain
and things looking good.
I'm excited and hopeful and ready to go
with what this next chapter is.
I am too.
Yeah, I think this is, i've had some people reach out you know
questioning wondering this is bad it's good what's going on and like from my like i don't really
contrary to maybe what you guys listeners might think like i don't know all the inner inner
workings of door chain what's going on so a lot of stuff with dying realms is doing you know i
know as much as everyone else.
And to be honest, like, I didn't see them doing much over the, you know, the past year.
And I was kind of wondering, questioning, you know, how much is being done.
And so I'm kind of looking forward to, like, maybe some new eyes and some fresh blood kind
of going in and, like, reinvigorating things.
And so, like, I'm, you know, and the Maya so some of the MyDevs come over.
I'm like, you guys, it's a similar code base.
So those devs hit the ground running.
So I'm not worried about that.
Liquify taking over these API endpoints, that's great.
I'm biased with Liquify because because these um you know with node
operators but you know they've been around for a while and they're doing a good job um so I feel
pretty strongly they'll continue doing good for for door chain so um I'm I'm not too worried about
any of this I think it's just a bit more of a no one likes change right you know change always is
scary um but um I think this could be good.
You know, kind of just, it's like some cold water on our face to like kind of refresh things.
Chad, you mentioned Randy, the business guy.
Like, I was on some of those calls and these aren't rinky dink wallets with 20,000 downloads that they bought from India.
We've been on some calls with some top blockchains and top wallets already.
How long has he been around?
For a few weeks?
And we're like, already.
Yeah, he's not been here long.
I think he started this month, so it's been basically a little over two weeks.
I've had meetings with, I'm not going to say which project, but top 50 coins.
I'll say that. And i'm not going to say which projects but like top 50 coins i'll say that
um and i'm not promising anything it's obviously early conversations these takes these conversations take months you know it's a long it's a long process but but you know he's he's doing a good
job he's reinvigorating a lot of energy into it he's he's he's a go-getter right he's like he's
working at you know and he's very good at doing what he does. So, and I'm holding hands with him the whole process because he's new to the project.
I'm obviously old to the project and you kind of push together.
We're kind of a good team or a combo and we both do these meetings together.
We try to understand what the other project is doing and how we can be of service to them
or they can be of service to us, vice versa, whatever, mutual benefit or whatever.
And, you know, we've been working together pretty well for the last couple of weeks
and meeting with a bunch of different projects and wallets and whatnot.
And I'm not sure that's going to continue.
We were actually talking about going to, like, the Bitcoin conference, possibly.
I'm not sure if that's happening quite yet.
But, like, or at least we're going to be going to conferences together, him and I,
and just, like, roaming around and just talking to as many people,
as many projects and teams as we can
to just kind of like spread the the valhalla gospel you know if we can i'll be i'll be i'll be
i'll be in miami for consensus too so hoping you both are there as well i might be there i might
be there yeah yeah yeah yeah i applied to speak at that conference. I should hear back I think next month when they're starting to like go through all the speakers or whatever. I think I'm going to talk about, if they invite me to speak, which I don't know if that's the case or not, but I was thinking I was going to talk about like Hugin and just AI development because I think that's just a fun thing that like almost everybody wants to kind of hear about or know about and that would just bring a larger crowd to my talk or whatever and then I would obviously plug Thor Chain in the beginning and kind of hear about or know about and that just bring a larger crowd to my my talk or whatever
and then i would obviously plug thor chain in the beginning and kind of uh brag a little bit
how good the project is and then go on with the actual you know academic talk
i think that's great i think the synergy here i this is what i this is my feeling right like
in kenton i you know i don't have necessarily a bird eyes view
in all the internals I'm working,
but I really feel like just on a team level,
on a community level,
there's just this powerful synergy here.
We've got so many good people doing so many good things
in many different directions.
And it's coalescing into just a really unstoppable force.
I really feel that.
I'm not trying to just spread bullish emptiness here.
I really feel like we're really on a good run here. And it makes me so happy to see Maya devs, you know,
in dev discord for ThorChain. And it just feels right. Everything's feeling good. And I love the
fact that you and Chad and Alex are getting out there. You've always been out there, let's be
real. But, you know, getting and talking to people,
that's what we got to do.
We got to spread the gospel of what we've built here.
Because now I feel like we're ready.
I feel like we've done the hard work.
We've paid our toll in blood and sacrifice,
figured out all the hard questions.
It took a lot of work.
We're there.
It's time to ship.
It's time to promote ourselves.
Because we've already delivered, right?
I was going to say we need to deliver.
We've already done that. We're going to keep shipping. We're going to keep delivering.
The time's now. This year's big. Let's go.
Yeah, I think I put out a tweet recently because somebody was
in a thread or whatever. I'm here.
I've come back full-fledged to the project and I'm putting everything I got
into this project again. I'm trying, right? And I've come back fully full-fledged to the project and I'm putting everything I got into this project again. And I'm, you know, trying to get as creative as I can,
trying to allocate my time as effective as possible to contribute as most amount of value
as I can to get this project moving in a great direction. And so, you know, I'm still here,
I'm still working hard, I'm fully dedicated, fully present. And I have no worries about, you know, the future of us.
No worries. That would be not entirely true.
But like usually I have some worries to be concerned about and to avoid.
But like, but I'm here and I'm fully present and I'm fully kind of pushing forward to get this project moving in as best of the position as I can.
And I'm going to be allocating as much time as my resources I have
to, to achieving that goal. Yeah. And, and, you know, before, cause you did mention the BTC
conference and I think Kenton maybe we just have time, a good time to talk about. So we don't
forget is guys, we are planning a meetup, um, for BTC loss. Oh, I should, I should have the link on
me. I'm sorry. I usually put that, I usually have the intro. Sorry about that, but we'll share it soon. But you guys, if you can go to BTC Las Vegas,
please reach out.
We have an RSVP that we're doing.
Would love to meet you.
We already have a good list of people
that have already declared they're going.
Let's get together, guys.
I really feel like the needle moves forward
when we all get to know each other,
when we all get that human connection.
I've met every man on this live stream in real life,
except Kenton, which will be changing in under two months. I am so unbelievably excited to do that. get that human connection um i've met every man on this live stream in real life except kenton
which will be changing in under two months i am so unbelievably excited to do that it's been a
long time coming but you're gonna be you're gonna be disappointed this is a one giant smoke screen
i don't look like this in real life oh are you a lizard you're a lizard that's what you're saying
oh no we got a globalist you guys oh no
oh we have a lizard man.
Well, that's okay.
I still owe you a steak dinner anyway.
Or we go shooting, whatever you want to do, buddy.
I want to shoot guns.
You said I want to shoot a propane tank with a shotgun.
We've got to make that happen, man.
Okay.
I have never done that before.
You've got to visit
alux in mexico for that one that's what he's doing that's what he's doing a few days ago
during the cartel revolts he was the one that set the costco on fire oh man i was i was just
practicing it was which which by the way everyone is perfectly safe there.
I was actually there a couple weeks ago, and I was totally fine.
The news is blowing out of proportion.
But yeah, I posted that link for the invite in the chat,
so if you guys can RSVP.
Actually, can I touch on that quick?
Yes.
So I've had some people troll me that is stupid, is dumb, a waste of money or whatever to do a meetup in Vegas.
And so I just want to walk you guys through it to kind of justify it.
We need to rebuild morale, right?
And, you know, meeting people in person is always great.
You know, we get – you know, our Thorchads are our salesmen, right?
So if we get people who love Thorchain going to the conference,
they'll talk about Thorchain to others.
And if we can help build and foster that energy, right, in a meetup, it helps.
And then also, too, like, I got to start meeting people who are,
you know, switched on to Thorain so we can promote within right
like you know we need you can't pay someone to like ThorChain right it's just like Chad you
mentioned Gavin was a ThorChad he started Nine Realms Coke was a ThorChad he's helping us with
the videos now I was a ThorChad I started a fund to do run nodes now how I am doing these podcasts. This is how we find out, find the next
wave of contributors
to the protocol
is through these meetups, these events.
I'd like to get to the point
where they're getting bigger
and they're fun and we have some notoriety.
People are asking to be invited.
And we get people from other communities to come.
And they want to come and meet everybody and have fun and whatnot.
And so it's really good networking.
And so there's a reason all these other projects do it.
The networking is fantastic and we've got to start somewhere.
We've got to start doing it.
And I promise you guys, I'm not spending a ton of money on this.
It's going to be cheap.
I'm paying for my own flight to get there.
I'm not charging the marketing fund.
So, yeah, we'll start small and build our way up.
We should never apologize for fostering our community.
I mean, that's a ludicrous stance to have.
If somebody is giving you a hard time about this, whatever,
like, I don't know.
The amount of money we'd
be spending on this meetup
is pretty
trivial. The value
we get out of it is far higher than what we
invested into it.
It's pretty obvious to me.
At this rate, there's only
five of us going.
Hey,
still fun.
It's also good market research to see of see, like, how many people are we in touch with?
So if we do want to do a real side event, we'll have an idea for the size, right?
Because, you know, get a venue and make reservations, all that kind of stuff.
So, yeah, it's a good place to start.
And so, yeah, guys, if you're going to be in Vegas, please come.
Great to meet you.
Bring whoever you want.
The more people, the better.
I'm going to try and bring some girls.
I've got a few girls I know that lost in Vegas.
Well, not paid girls.
Some Thorchex.
No, no, they'll come free.
My charm is all I need to pay them with, buddy.
That's it.
Don't worry.
There's no money involved, Kenton.
You can't pay somebody.
It'll be a Thor chap at your time.
Somebody to come with you to a Thor chain event.
She loves Jenny, but we can't pay him to love Thor chain.
Well, she's a business owner, so we'll see if I can get her to come.
I'm thinking long-term, like, you know, you get people,
like maybe primitives like Mocha or B-Or Labs or something. Like, I really want them to get in touch. What's possible because we're not quite
the I think we're early, but these days are coming. So I just want to do anything I can to
spread awareness. And the people are giving you a hard time about this meetup, Kenton. We will
duct tape them to the propane tank that we blow up. Okay. No violence, please. No violence.
we blow up okay no violence please no violence you you sound more mexican than me danny
cool well all right i've got a list of questions that maybe i think the average
thor chad would have um um i guess so like what's going on with JP?
Is he still
involved? Is he kind of stepping back?
Yeah. JP
is stepping back a bit, unrelated to Nine
Realms and all that stuff but like
JP, similar to me
over a year ago, he's going through
a very rough time in his
life. I'm obviously not going to go into more detail than that
and I totally understand what is going on and my heart goes out to him. I think he just needs a
break. You know, he's been working on this project nonstop since 2018, technically, right? So he's
been around for a super long time and I can totally understand just needing like a breather.
I suspect he'd come back one day. I don't know that for sure. It's up to him,
of course. But yeah, just to kind of take a breath.
Okay. So we can kind of like, kind of you, Chad and Alux, you guys are like,
you are fearless leaders now. You know, you're kind of, not that JP might come back one day,
but for now you guys are kind of,
yeah.
Yeah.
I'm happy to step up and play a bigger,
bigger role.
I didn't actually want to do that for a while,
but just circumstances weren't great for that in that particular time.
So I'm actually excited to take into that role and,
and like really push hard on this project and,
and get things shipping,
get things moving,
get some forward momentum,
all that kind of stuff. Yeah. And I in my mind like people always i feel like would say
you know jp has too much control on this and that and i'm like well he might have a lot of influence
but functionally i don't know that he has yeah functionally he's he's been stepping back from
the project function from like he's been engaged for a long time for for obvious reasons but like
he's been offloading a lot of his roles and responsibilities or things
that he was maintaining or managing like like in the early early days you know
he was really like all of his time was just like an investment business and
that kind of thing you know in like the 2019 2020 days but like a lot of that
investment stuff has kind of already been here and gone.
The people who originally invested into the Treasury, for example, I'm pretty sure they're all not gone, but they got their tokens that they wanted, whatever.
So he helped build the Twitter account, for example, and he offloaded that Twitter account to some interns, you know, a couple of years ago or whatever. Like he's been stepping back slightly over time just to let the community take over certain aspects and things that he was building or maintaining, you know.
So his engagement has been slowing down in a positive way over years to become a more decentralized, you know, thing in some sense.
And Danny, you mentioned this the other day, I think, when actually talking about
Cal leaving, is that
this is the point of a decentralized network.
It's not reliant on any
one person or one group.
Even the founder
can step back. Everything
keeps humming, keeps ticking.
Even Nine Realms can step back.
Everything keeps going.
Other people didn't come in and whatnot, but the protocol itself Nine realms can step back. Everything keeps going. We can just other people
then come in and whatnot,
but the protocol itself keeps functioning.
Blocks keep getting produced.
So it's just kind of like
the natural evolution of things
that change is inevitable.
So, okay, cool.
Well, then we went over nine realms a bit d are you still looking
for more devs to like to hire to help replace um i mean i would i would i would love to have more
devs it's just a question of budget more than any other reason to be honest with you uh that's
something for the treasury to kind of you know think about all that kind of stuff um i've been in conversation
with other people like i was just there was a guy i was talking to on one of our our merge requests
for bit tensor asking if he'd be interested right this is a couple weeks ago whatever it was
yeah so i i think i'm always open to new talent and if there's somebody that comes by that is
that would be an amazing fit for the project like i think i'd push the treasury to hire that
individual um and you know and all that kind of stuff so but i think we're good for right
now to be honest to you like we're not like you know we have everything we need to be honest you
know we got a chain that team we got multiple devs on the thornette side we got i mean we have uh
70 i think 70 pr's merged for 317 right like we're getting a lot of thing a lot of things like
done things are getting shipped we just enabled rapid swaps you know earlier today i've got just
flipped on we got uh memos outbound's probably gonna be flipped on probably next week we got
solana just rolling out we're increasing the pool size there we got zcash coming out i mean there's
a lot of things happening.
And we're able to do all that with the team we have now.
You can even exclude the nine realms people.
And we still have the team needed to achieve and accomplish all those things.
So it's always good to be on a lookout for new talent because, you know,
when new talent shows up, you just kind of – you have to snatch it before somebody else does.
But we don't really – there's not like a gaping hole that we need to fill right now. So can I interject real quick? Because that was actually a question,
a community member wanted me to ask on the show was the whole bit sensor integration. So he wanted
to know what was looking at. So apparently the integration was good because you want to hire
the guy. So is that a fair statement? Well, to be honest, I haven't even reviewed that code. So
to be fair to the situation,
anybody who's actively trying to contribute to this code base signals that they have an interest in working with this project,
that they like this project, that they want to work with it.
And that, to me, is a green flag that they have it.
At least, you know, starting position, have a good mentality.
Obviously, they have to review their skill sets
and, you know, their skill sets warrant the salary that they might you know collect or whatever but like I just
when somebody you constant on a merge request that's not part of our
development team like I'll probably just poke the person are you interested in
working and then we can have an actual conversation about you know if their
skills you know would be valuable here or not or whatever perfect Kenton I'll kick it back to you since you were going through it.
Yeah, I'll add to this BitTensor thing. So like bringing it back to Randy,
I told him he's going to be my new BFF. We're going to be working
together and doing stuff. And I told him about
the community is hot on BitTensor, Tao, getting the pool.
And so I'm like, well, can you reach out to them?
Maybe we can get a grant and they would seed the pool or help pay for development.
So he's looking into that.
So far, I think he's like, he's not sure about grants, but he's going to try.
He's going to try and talk to the foundation, see if he can get in there.
Maybe they don't do a grant, but maybe they have some devs that can help our devs whatever right but um you know i'm listening to the community um we got some
background noise i don't know who that is um yeah alex i think you've got like a fan or something
i don't know what that sound is okay um anyway just just to kind of highlight my new bff randy
like he's he's already on it he's he's you know i'm
giving him ideas and he's running with it so um so we'll see you guys about tau you know um
yep see how it goes and i was i was talking with the chainette team about tau um earlier uh on
wednesday i think yesterday and um i think what i think the the intention here is to generalize
this implementation i think it can be reused for like a bunch of different like substrates like Polkadot, for example. And so we might generalize this thing to, sorry, getting a phone call. Generalize it so that we can reuse this code base for any kind of substrate based integration we want to make.
any kind of substrate based integration we want to make nice like wait do you
mean like any chain or is this like this is a certain certain type like you have
like EVM chains like aetherium you know UTX social like a big chain like Bitcoin
and you got like substrate which is like kind of like the polka dot universe you
know and then you have cosmos change like like Thor chain and everything else
like this is kind of like little like universes yeah you know and then you have cosmos chains like like thor chain and everything else like this is kind of like little like universes yeah you know and once you get one of those chains in
that universe like to do the other ones becomes kind of low-hanging fruit that you can just kind
of easily just kind of copy and paste and and clone over uh and then there's sometimes there's
like chains that are like very unique uh that are not like anything else out there and that's kind
of like a one-time shot deal and that would be like solana would be probably a good example that ton has a very fascinating and odd
way of doing a lot of different things that adds a lot of complexity to our how we integrate with
them you know um sui's probably the same i would presume cool got it um'm going to keep going down my list, guys.
Yeah, keep going.
Make sure my – I'm going to ask my questions in the right order so they make sense.
You mentioned the nine realms, nodes, and bond providers should be – in theory, the BP should stay.
They're still bond providing now they
should continue to want to bond provide later they just just need a new node operator so that makes
sense what about nine realms themselves like that's the group or entity like did they did they own
rune and are they gonna are they gonna start selling it or do you know how much they have
if they can have you know dc deal if there's anything like that can happen like we have to worry do we have to worry about nine realms dumping rune on us basically it's it's uh i do know they
have some uh i'm not going to reveal like the amounts or anything like this i don't think i
don't want to dock some in that kind of way it's to me it's not an amount that's large enough that
would that would create any kind of significant change in the price right like if they were to
dump it all right now and just do, like, a streaming swap out of it
into Bitcoin or something else,
then, like, you probably wouldn't even notice it in the price,
to be honest.
And it's not like this is an ex-girlfriend
who hates her guts throwing her clothes off the balcony.
Like, it's, you know, they, you know,
if they want to exit the position,
they'll do it, you know, gently, you know, without affecting the position they'll do it you know gently you know
without without affecting the price right like there's no reason yeah i think like it it's the
way for them to do that is is to do a streaming swap and if you do it in a streaming swap you
you do it over some period of time whatever period of time that is and it's not going to be
now in my opinion it's not going to be enough to actually change the price anything more than what you just normally see in the day-to-day just fluctuations of of ruin's price
and in any case it's it's uh it's a smooth thing like uh nairomc stepping out in good terms
everybody involved with the project are still going to be contributors in some way or part of the community or you know still holding thor chain uh closing their hearts like there's no
it's not a like dumping the table out kind of thing so uh yeah people people sometimes extrapolate
things uh too much uh this is uh somebody that took the brunt of a lot of heat for already three, four years now, since 2021 and those hacks.
And it's very daunting.
It's heavy to have that responsibility in your shoulders.
And they're saying, you know, now we want to transition out and pass the baton to the next guy, you know, pass on the torch.
So, yeah, they have a position.
I will agree with Chad.
It's not really significant or of a size that would affect anything.
They're welcome to stay on the position.
It's their capital.
They're welcome to exit it over time.
But I don't think it's even
relevant for you know the strategic direction of fortune whatsoever gotcha so then okay passing the
baton let's go with this keep going with that uh the dev fund the five percent you know going to
niner realms where is that going to go to who's taking that over yeah so an adr has to be created on that
um i guess that will happen in the next few weeks uh one one thing that chad and i had thought is
um there is a um continued development of development of fortune is what should exist
so having this kind of def Fund go to a treasury,
operating treasury that also goes out
and carries out the development.
But instead of being one entity,
like it used to be with nine realms,
maybe this fund can have a little bit more ecosystem
players in there.
So that's kind of where our minds were going this way.
It's kind of, yeah, again, less centralized.
We're moving away from
this into progressively more and more and more distributed development so I
think it's a natural step on that front not sure if you'd like to add something
more chat yeah I think there's two ways of going at this so you're right that we
have to get an ADR together that moves in place and it's up not to me and it's
enough to a lux about where that actually goes through that's have to get an ADR together that moves in place. And it's not up to me and it's not up to ALUX about where that actually goes through.
That's up to the community, right?
Up to the validators to vote
in the direction they want to go.
The two choices that I see that the community kind of can vote on
and decide which way to go is one way is to send it into the treasury, right?
And the treasury is used now to pay a bunch of money every month to,
you know, my salary and other
dev salaries and and dashboards and liquefied running dashboards and like all these things
that's one way to go at it um there's been some conversation about that and within the community
i know i've had like a couple kind of quick little conversations with random people
about like if that money is going into the treasury what does that mean about the how
the treasury is spending that money like right right now the treasury is a private fund
and privately funded and you know there's a good amount of transparency about how that money is
spent and to some degree and when everybody knows what the addresses are you know and you can you
can look on chain to see where that money is and how it's going or whatever um but then there's
a conversation like if if the money does go to treachery,
does that mean that the relationship of how the treachery
is with the community, does that need to change?
Or does it stay the same?
Like, I don't know.
It's a conversation that the community can be having.
The second way of approaching that
is that as the technical kind of like lead of the project,
it can go into a wallet that i control that i you know i have
a wallet now that i've been using for a little while to pay uh people some money or whatever uh
for some devs or whatever and i could go into that wallet and that would just that would be just
allocated for paying devs and their dev salaries right it's not enough money to pay all of the
devs their dev salaries because there's more salaries than what that 5% of the dev fund makes to actually pay for everybody their salaries.
But that would at least give a separation between the dev fund going to pay for devs or the dev fund going to pay for the treasury, which the treasury pays devs plus infrastructure plus this plus that plus this plus that or whatever that is right and so that's
a conversation the community should be having over the next like couple weeks to decide you know
collectively what we think is the best way to go at it i'm not going to push my weight on this topic
quite yet i want to let the community you know like mingle over this idea and debate and you
know on on our discords or whatever and have that that conversation. But in the end, it's up to the Valerians to decide how they want to move that fund.
I think that would be probably the main sticking point,
that if the dev fund does go to the treasury,
then do the nodes then have some more say over the treasury?
And is it better to keep the treasury separate and isolated from the nodes?
Alex, you're going to see something.
And it doesn't even really need to be the same treasury.
It can be like a new treasury or distributed wallet with the same or different members.
And that definitely, I agree with you.
Where that 5% is going should be completely transparent
to the community and the nodes.
And nodes should have a say on maybe this is too expensive,
maybe this is too cheap,
maybe you should get this expense going on as well.
So I think that will start to open more
those types of conversations, So I think that will start to open more those types of
conversations, which I think is good. And looking into how the development process
operates, I think there's a lot of room for improvement. Things have been managed some
way for a while now and having this fresh blood and new beginning, I think it's also
great for posing some questions.
Should we keep doing this? Is there a cheaper way to do that?
Like just an easy win, for example.
Maya will likely end up running Stationet for Thorchain in a bare metal setup,
because a Stationet doesn't need 100% uptime.
Stationet is you go in, you test, and then if it has
a little bit of downtime,
it's not a problem, really. It's a station.
It's for staging tests.
So why are we running it in AWS
that costs
dozens of thousands of dollars
a month,
which, of course, is a drag on any
setup you have. It'd be definitely treasury be
whatever it's money you have to pay uh so that's just one example but there's countless others
uh for example another one is uh gtlab you can try and get a grant or not a grant like a wave
from gtlab if you're an open source project we're gonna try we have that for maya we're gonna try
and have these for ThorChain2,
et cetera, et cetera.
There's many, many rooms, a lot of room for improvement,
and that's a lot of the process to get less money out.
But then on the other end of things also is
some more money in.
There's, you know, the TCY,
or the tertiary probably will be eventually staked.
The nodes it delegates to should have some,
some of the money go back to the treasury.
I also don't know why Thortune has never applied for grants.
There was like an informal one with Monero
that didn't really happen.
Can I stop you for a sec Alex?
Maya has, yeah go ahead.
What do you mean about the nodes that the Treasury is not getting any money for?
Can you explain that?
So the Treasury, over time, has decided to delegate via bond provider to ecosystem participants
in exchange for some service.
It does it at its discretion,
and it's kind of a way to rent a contributor
in the sense that, you know,
the treasury decentralizes the network
by having more participants validate for the chain.
And instead of paying them for a salary,
they're keeping the node rewards of that node.
I believe that's a good model model but it shouldn't be 100 percent uh
there may be their option of the rewards their node operator fee is set to 100 so they get the
operator gets all of the rewards correct and the treasury doesn't get anything you just keep your
principle and that's it okay correct you want to you want to change i believe that
i i'm suggesting uh we will see what happens it's not up to me uh uh you know only to me but i i i would say there's some opportunities to decrease the money out increase the money in and
does make thor chain more viable in its development for the next five decades and with a bigger team and more
investment in the things we want to do. And all of that takes just responsible management
of its funds. So that's something I would personally be a little bit more involved in as
well and try and make that happen. And I interrupted you. I'm sorry. You were talking about grants, I believe, when I interrupted you.
Yeah.
So actually, this is one of the ways that Maya has remained viable for a while.
We clearly have less volume than ThorChain.
We cannot rely exclusively on our DEF fund, which is the Maya token.
So what do you do then?
And, you know, of course, there's running nodes.
There's doing all sorts of things.
But one very important way is Maya, when we're
going to integrate a chain, we go out and ask the chain, hey,
how valuable is this to you?
Would you like to support the development process?
Would you like to add the CDLP? Would you like to subsidize part of what this is this to you? Would you like to support the development process? Would you like to add the CDLP?
Would you like to subsidize part of what this is gonna cost?
And most times they say yes.
So we got a grant from Cardano,
we're getting a retroactive grant for Zcash.
In the case of other chains, they have said,
no, I don't wanna pay it, but I have the devs to do it.
I'm gonna develop it myself, great. So now to pay it, but I have the devs to do it. I'm going to develop it myself.
Great.
So now we don't lose time and spend the dev time and efforts and money on that.
So that's kind of a key way that I, you know, I'll actually be meeting Randy with Randy
soon to that end on how can we send out these proposals to many chains.
And, of course, they have to make sense. They have to be chains that we want because of the volume, users, daily activity, market
cap, openness to the situation, amount of wallets, all of that thing, all of those good
old stats.
But when weighing different chains to add next next um key principle is are these guys willing
to food part of the bill or not and that should be a a big a big reason why we end up deciding
between two relatively you know similar chains well these guys are willing to to subsidize the
development let's go with them and that way you're not paying for everything that it takes. It takes a lot, guys, to integrate a chain safely and in a decentralized way.
It takes a lot.
And it's why there aren't many protocols doing this crazy thing of cross-chain swaps out there.
It's tough not to crack.
And if we can get these chains to subsidize part of development, it's an obvious thing to consider.
That's all great, man. Like, when you say all that stuff out loud, I'm like, why wasn't this done
five years ago? So it's like, it's nice. I mean, hindsight's 20-20 and you can always kind of,
you know, point fingers at people, but it. But at least it's being done now.
Great to see you come in with all these ideas and try to do this stuff.
So this is great.
One thing is abundance is bad.
It makes you be slower.
And one of the key things in Maya
is we've always faced scarcity.
We've always been in a bear.
We've always been in the minimum amount of things.
We launched very fairly.
We're a dev team in Mexico.
So we've always operated with a scarcity mindset, and that leads you to be creative.
I like to call it creative scarcity.
When you have scarcity but hope together, that becomes this kind of, like, energy for creativity and ways to do things differently.
And I think that's one of the key things we can bring to the table.
Fortune doesn't have scarcity, but it should operate as if it did,
because then it's when you really create something that's sustainable for the ages.
And that's what we should be working on here. Speaking of that, I don't know, Chad, I know you've
been super busy, especially with the rabbit swaps, things and all that jazz, but we did do a live
stream with the Xano guys. And I've actually been doing a lot of spaces with them on the side um shout out to uh dash um joelle um and i've got a good relationship to them uh they
are a fork of crypto note and uh kent and i talked to them for a while and they're releasing something
called gateway addresses i don't know if anyone's talked to you about this yet but it basically makes
the integration into a dex much simpler forecasted to come out in two to three months, but super solid community.
And they already said, Kenton, you can correct me if I'm wrong,
but I'm pretty sure they said, you know,
they'd be more than happy to contribute dev resources,
whatever needed to help get a chain client going.
And their community reminds me of the passion of kind of like Luna.
Like the cool thing about Luna, what happened on Thorchain,
like we had so much swap line because the community was so freaking down
to have Luna available for a decentralized thing.
So I just want to put that
in your ear.
Super awesome community
and they share our ethos 100%.
And they said they'd provide liquidity.
Yes.
So, like, I don't know if,
to be frank,
I don't know what their treasure is like.
I don't know if they'd actually pay us,
but they'd probably do
as much for free as they could.
Like, help everyone write the code,
give liquidity.
I was actually thinking about them like Dash.
Like, I was really, I feel like ThorChain kind of fumbled.
We should have integrated Dash because their community was engaged.
And that's why I see Xenol, like their community is engaged.
And, you know, it's one thing to add new chains,
but when we add new communities
who then become our fans and they go sell ThorChain for us they talk about it this is great
this is awesome but you can't pay for that you know and when we find them yeah go ahead
interestingly the grant process helps with the community building because during the grant, we're out there explaining, you know, getting that proposal on.
You start getting some stakeholders involved and invested, and that, you know, gets some connection with their community.
But then once they actually pay for it, now these guys, whoever, let's say it's the Solana Foundation.
Now these guys have a cost.
Now they have
a an incentive to actually make that investment worth it so they will actually help go up you with their community uh so you know it's one of those things that's counterintuitive
because they're paying they're actually wanting to bring their community even more
which is great and of course we should also be doing a big effort in, you know, reaching out to them,
in welcoming them, in keeping our culture toxic-free and, you know, friendly.
We are, you know, the glue of crypto.
We should be a very friendly glue.
So we should work on that.
It's also why I suggested, you know, having to bifurcate the dev discord
into the dev discord and the other discord we have
for the open community.
That's something I suggested and it did happen and it's great
because that other discord can be much more open
to anyone that comes and joins.
So that's a key thing.
We should be somebody that's great to hang out with
because then people stick around.
100%.
Yeah, years ago, I remember coming up with an overly simple mathematical kind of equation on this topic.
Like, I've always thought, like, if you thought about how much trade volume is this coin, right, or market cap could go by either.
Trade volume is probably a better metric to use. On a 1 to 10 scale, like how good is it? Like 10 being Bitcoin and, you know, one being,
you know, barely existent. And then you have another one where it is like, how engaged are
they with the protocol, right? Is it a zero? Meaning they don't even know that it's happening
and there's no cross-chain anything. There's no liquidity providing. There's no nothing.
Or is it a 10 where
where you know luna was kind of like a 10 in this way that they were they were engaged we were going
to have them integrate with our with their wallets directly into thor chain and their dexes or like
other kind of defy applications and plus like adding liquidity that would be like a 10 and you
take these two like numbers zeros to tens on both sides you just multiply them together and that gives you some sort of like general idea of like how valuable this chain would be to add
to like Thor chain as a as a chain and I think people underestimate this side of the equation
meaning the the cooperation aspect to it and people are more focused on or overly focused on
how much trade volume or you know what the market cap is of the token and it's so many times we've added chains and we get almost very little volume
from it just didn't because nobody knows that even we even support that particular asset or chain
you know a lot of the times and so i i'm more interested in adding somebody that's a smaller market cap asset but
is highly engaged with the protocol than i am with adding the next you know uh polygon or something
that's very uh you know very large market cap system i i would argue that's pretty much xano
because um kendan can back me up on this you know they made the effort already to make gateway
addresses you know crypto note they made um they already to make gateway addresses, you know, crypto note,
they made,
they want,
because we asked them a question,
like,
well,
how do you buy Xano?
And this guy who's like,
got 50,000 followers on X,
like,
well,
you know,
you can use MXC or,
you know,
cake wallet.
You have,
like,
their answer wasn't clear,
right?
They did not have a click to have such a simple question.
How do you buy Xano?
And they didn't want it.
So I,
and them making the gateway addresses before talking to us shows that they're thinking ahead,
like this is what they want, right? They want to be integrated. They want to give their customers
a way to buy Xano. And so I do think this is an opportunity here for sure. I just got a good
feeling about it for the same reasons that you alluded to, Chad. And if their devs are engaged,
And if their devs are engaged, they could be working on Xano in parallel to another token being added to Thorchain, right?
It doesn't necessarily need to be an either or.
We can have multiple tokens being worked on at the same time being added to Thorchain, right?
I'm glad you brought that up, Chad, about how to pick it. Because this is, I've noticed this conversation has picked up in the community about, you know,
who's deciding what chains and how they're getting on.
And how do we decide on like TonCoin and Cardano and whatever.
And I remember in the past when we only had like, I think we had five, we started with five chains
and was like, what's the sixth we're going to add? And I think it went to a node vote.
And I'm curious, like, should we kind of reinstate that where nodes vote on what chains they want to
see added next? You know, yeah, we could do it that way. To be honest, I would recommend not
doing that way and
the reason why i say that is because it is comp it's not just about what chains you like right
it's more complicated than like you know i might want to add a chain to the protocol that i think
that chain is stupid right like i have no interest in that chain personally but that's not my bias
feelings about that chain has nothing to do with whether they add it or not add it or whatever.
And there's a lot more than what meets the eye.
Like part of it is like who we can actually make a contact with, right, from a business development side.
And if they're willing to engage in that sense.
And it's really and it's also like the technical complexity of adding this chain.
It could be really low hanging fruit.
It could be highly, you know, highly expensive technically like xmr would be very expensive for example so there's like there's too many kind of
attributes or complexities to it to for a node vote because most node owners probably don't
deeply understand these things well enough to be able to make an informed decision about these
things so the better way of going at it in opinion, is we switch the protocol to being an opt-in chain security kind of model where we can just like release a new chain.
Let's call it like Solana, for example.
Right.
And then if nodes want to add it, then go ahead and add it.
And if you don't want to add it, then don't go ahead and add it.
And that way, like your nodes are voting in effect because they get to choose which chains they want to add or support or which ones they don't want to support.
And so it does come down to a node vote, like, in the end.
But to get everybody to, like, a 67% kind of agreement on whatever the next chain is, that's going to be an extremely hard thing to do because some people are going to say it should be Monero.
And some people are going to say it should be Zcash.
And some people are going to say it's going to be Zano or Zeno, whatever how you pronounce it. Like it's just,
it's just, there's too many opinions and there's like, so the cleanest way to do it
is really for like for the team to decide which is the next chain to be worked on from a technical
and business perspective to offer these up as efficiently as fast as possible to our community
to adopt whatever chains we want to adopt and then we just roll them out as fast as possible to our community to adopt whatever chains we want to
adopt. And then we just roll them out as fast as we can. And then Nose just kind of adopt whichever
ones they want to add. And also like the dev team is not the only one doing this. Zano can go ahead
and do the development themselves. It's all open source. It's very clear how to do it. Or somebody
can run a parallel dev team and say, I really
believe we should add Polygon. And, you know, we're going to do the work and propose it
to the nodes. Like the dev team is not the sole kind of force that will guide this, but
there has to be some direction. As you're running like a chicken without a head, direction
is so important to a blockchain.
In the end, what the nodes are is like a Senate, but you need some executive direction too.
Else it doesn't work, you're just frozen. And that's something that needs to be avoided at all costs.
Yeah, decentralization is great for security. It's awful for governance.
I know ThorChain is a beast.
For someone new to it, it takes some time to get used to the code base and understand it.
What about for adding a new chain?
Can somebody off the street come on and pick up, learn ThorChain quick enough that they can just you can mention polygon alix
someone could just come in do polygon get it done and then leave like can we have like part-time
or contract or you know whatever type devs add these chains for us is that possible uh it's a
little bit complicated because uh there's a few things one is I've been working with the Chainit team
to help build some AI skills to build chain clients
so that you can more easily and more effectively
build chain clients with AI doing, you know,
almost all the heavy lifting in one sense.
That's one thing to make it easier to build new chain clients
and faster to build new chain clients.
The second thing is just building the chain client itself is actually not enough.
You have to maintain that chain client, right?
And so when there's some sort of bug where a swap gets stuck, right?
For some reason, we can't.
We were into this with Tron recently where we sent some Tron to some wallet address,
and the wallet address just rejected the Tron being sent to it entirely.
And so the funds just got basically stuck in ThorChain, in effect.
And sometimes there are unique things about these chains that make it not so smooth.
And we need somebody who will maintain that chain client for as long as the protocol is servicing that particular chain.
So having somebody come in and just write a chain client
and then dump it on us and then walk away
is generally not the best outcome.
And furthermore, you have to merge this stuff
into our mainnet branch on GitLab.
And so whatever change that somebody else wants to make
to add a new chain like Polygon,
even though Polygon's actually already merged and it's already in the code base,
but it has to go through code review with our devs for our devs to look at
and make sure that the implementation is correct
and it's not some massive exploit that could cause funds to be lost
or something like this in that sense.
So it is multifaceted. It is complicated.
It is open source to ALUX's point,
and anybody can help contribute who they want to,
but we also have to maintain a code quality.
We also have to be, you know,
maintain that code base onto the future.
We have to maintain the node launcher stuff,
the helm charts, the infrastructure side as well,
and when a new version of that chain comes out,
we have to release that to the community
and that takes time and energy and money and attention from us even though i'm going to be
working on huguen to work on that for us and then hopefully in the near future but like that takes
a lot of that takes time out of our schedule as well so it's it's very complicated how this all
kind of comes together and it's not as simple and clean as you as we'd like it to be but we're obviously going to be doing the best we can to add and support these changes as fast
and as quick and as you know safe as possible which is why we have a dedicated chain that team
entirely and that and that team like that star squid and and someone else right and they're
they're not a part of nine realms they're They're separate. They're staying with DoorChain.
Everything's fine.
They continue.
Okay.
Okay, cool.
That makes sense.
Yep.
So I'm curious and kind of going back to Alix earlier saying about,
you know,
all these opportunities to try and save money and perhaps even make money.
That could create like a really huge surplus for the treasury.
I agree with you guys, you want to run a tight ship,
but at the same time, this is a bear market.
Bear market is for building.
This is the time people should be investing.
This is when we buy.
This is the time to be investing in ThorChain.
So if you can find some of that surplus surplus that extra cash under the couch cushions do you think that could be enough to get chad another
another developer or even two to kind of bring forward all these features everything we want
to build instead of waiting for them to be done for two years get them done now
for two years, get them done now.
So do note, any team of more than two people,
every person you add has diminishing returns
because every person you add needs to coordinate
with the people that were there before them.
So some people say, oh, you know, we're 10 people.
Let's add two more.
We'll go 20% faster.
It probably will be 5% or 10%, especially because, okay, let's say with more codes, more PRs.
Well, that means we need also more reviews.
Do we have experienced senior people that can do reviews?
Well, the senior people is Chad and it's Amna and Maya and a few more people.
It's very few people to do reviews
so you know okay let's say you reviewed when we need people to merge and test it so it's not like
just adding one person magically you go faster and if even if you go faster in one side of the
pipeline you need to also increase the rest of the pipeline. So it's not effective. So it's either you kind of like double everything,
or it's really not worth it to just hire marginally at all.
In the case of the recent hires,
it was to kind of backstop things that we did identify
were limiting factors.
But that's been addressed already.
So that's one thing.
And the other thing is, yes, bears are for building and for the greedy teams that develop, but we should never lose star that one of the key things is this will not be the first or last bear market. We need to be around for many more of these. And that's something that the Treasury should take into account as well.
And that's something that the Treasury should take into account as well.
So, yes, people are short-term oriented at times and they want, you know, the best kind of like smack as possible right now, tomorrow, to kind of move up the price now.
And while I get it, you know, the future is for long-term people.
And we need to have a long-term view of things too
uh so uh yeah that's that would be my take that doesn't mean that the treasury should pull back
and not invest you know and not develop and just freeze that of course is not anywhere near what
we're suggesting just that it should be responsible. Responsible is the word.
Right, right. We are coming at the top of an hour, you guys, and I think we've been talking about the nine realms, treasury, and all those funds. I think we're doing pretty good on that
front. I just want to remind, I did not say in the beginning, you guys, this space, this live
stream, whatever thing we talk about is never investment advice, okay? It's informational
and educational purposes only. chad i'm wondering
if we should transition i know we have a lot of topics we want to get it to um maybe i'll kick
it to you um router v6 um maybe i'll hand it to you from there good sir yeah router v6 is something
we've been working on for quite a while probably longer than i would have liked to be honest with
you what if i didn't get this thing earlier? But it's finally getting out there.
We just, I think we're just about finishing testing on StageNet. I think we're getting a little bit of feedback from the SwapKit team to test it on StageNet and find any more bugs
that they can find. And we'll be rolling it out probably starting in two weeks just to give
the wallets and integrators time to know that this is coming and we're going to have a new system.
And we're going to be posting some information to the community soon about that kind of transition from router V5 to router V6.
I'm hoping that we'll get this thing fully rolled out to all the chains uh over the next maybe six weeks eight weeks
something like this um and we'll be rolling it out like one chain at a time uh starting with the
lowest market cap you know evm chain which i think is base chain from memory and we'll go to base
chain and the next chain and like avax and whatever then ethereum will probably be the last one because
that's obviously the most highest risk and so we want to put things in mainnet kind of slowly over time to have a slow and steady uh controlled kind of
roll out of that but that's that's one of the things that we're kind of actively working on to
to roll out to the community is that v6 of the router perfect guys you heard it here um and yeah
that makes a whole logical sense i'm really excited to see how that transpires.
I know people have been really asking me about that. So there you go, guys. Alex, I wanted to
kick it to you. I know you're a little limited on time. I want to make sure if you have any
final thoughts or anything before you got to go, my friend. Alex, you're muted, my friend.
It's all good.
Happy to be here.
I will definitely be joining more
Thursdays with ThorChain.
I think I had one of those.
I might have come up with that
when we were in the DCY time.
So it's good to see it's being carried on.
But yeah, I will be joining more often.
I'll also be in that Thornton Discord, whatever you guys need.
And happy with this new chapter and collaborating with somebody like Chad
and all of the teams involved.
So yeah, thanks for having me.
It was great. And by the way, yeah, thanks for having me. It was great.
And by the way, somebody wrote me that's listening.
A good thing for the previous point that we were mentioning
about maybe hiring one or two more devs.
Nine women can't make a baby in one month.
Which I think is a great saying.
There's some things that just need time.
They can't be accelerated. We're going to go
and we're going to go fast,
but we're going to go at the right pace.
Not faster, not slower. At the right
pace. And to be fair,
we are shipping.
Catch you next week.
Take care, brother. We're shipping.
We are shipping.
It's not like we're falling behind or
anything like this or whatever like you know we have i think i just mentioned like 70 mrs in the
current release you know and i don't expect that to change significantly uh some for sure but not
significantly from you know after nine realms uh uh parts from the protocol but like you know
we're doing great to be honest with you uh it doesn't mean we doesn't mean we can't improve
doesn't mean we can't do better doesn't mean we're not necessarily hiring whatever know, we're doing great, to be honest with you. It doesn't mean we can't improve. It doesn't mean we can't do better.
It doesn't mean we're not necessarily hiring, whatever.
But like, we're just, there's not a strong need for it in this particular moment, to be honest.
Yeah, I hope you didn't take it with me saying like you guys aren't getting anything done.
Of course not.
Can more be done?
Is there more room to do it?
And like Alex, his explanation is actually perfect.
I mean, it makes total sense. I get it. And like Alex, it looks, his explanation is actually perfect. I mean, it makes total sense.
I get it.
Yeah.
But if anything,
sometimes adding more people makes things slower.
Yes.
Like,
I mean,
this,
you know,
you shouldn't talk smack about people,
but this is why I let Reggie go.
Cause like we're,
we're behind because of him.
And so now I got to catch up and like,
it's just,
that was just set us back.
So there's that risk to it too, right?
So it's not just as simple as just adding a human,
all this and everything is going better.
And it sounds like the replacement is doing a fantastic job.
He's doing okay.
Okay, this boss is a bit of a hard ass, but...
His boss is a bit of a hard ass.
Yeah.
So, forgive me, I might have missed, maybe I didn't hurt, but Alec said we can...
Is the treasurer adding some Solana to the pool?
Yeah, I think it's happening today or tomorrow, about another 50, 60k being added to the Solana pool,
and then we'll probably add more in a week or two or
whatever it is just to kind of slowly roll up the solana pool and after that point i kind of want
to investigate stables because i always like adding stables to thor chain it's another source
of information for the tor kind of um kind of algo there um and whenever we pause trading on like
ethereum for example we like lose a bunch of
stables because we've paused at that chain and we don't have a lot left over. So if we have another
chain where it has stables on it, like a Solana, I like to investigate, you know, if there's more
stables to be added to the protocol. So one stable that keeps popping up in my mind is um um ripple the rl usd and like you know we would
i'm i i don't know i don't know xrp that well but i would think i'd imagine we'd be one of the only
dexes that has xrp and the stable coin yeah and that's something we could promote to their
community and like you found this earlier denny like they get the problem
with sexes because xrp was delisted and um so i'm like we even it's just like 25 grand just something
to get it going um and so this is what i was hoping with randy that he can like poke around
these foundations and maybe get them to to seed some of these pools for us. Yeah. They got money too.
They got money to burn.
Yeah.
Can I interject here?
Because I'm in touch with the XRP community quite a lot.
That's the story I tell them all the time, Chad.
I don't know if you remember this.
I think it's like 2022.
It was a long time ago.
But that's when the SEC cracked down on them, right?
And said that there are security.
2021, actually.
2021.
Thank you. Yeah.
Yeah.
And you said at the time if xrp was on
thor chain then they would not have to have worried about it right they would have had an
alternate way to made it and that's really impactful on them that you know the core you
know co-founder thor chain said that so i have a pretty good relationship in fact kenton um their
xrp made up is actually the same time i'm going to be in las vegas for the btc conference and i'm
already planning on going on the 29th of april so i'm going to so i will i will be in touch with
them and um uh yeah i'll do my best if you got some in like can you ask them if they if anyone
anyone has any ins with because i know ripple is the entity right that and it's separate from the
blockchain yes and so i'm assuming ripple acts like the foundation uh you
know for for the blockchain so like do any of these people have ins with with ripple the entity that
could perhaps you know give us a grant to fund this liquidity um i don't know can you poke around and
ask because then we can stick yeah of course we can get you know get these get these names to randy
and randy can work his magic and that's his job is basically networking right and so yeah he's a place to start so uh for those who don't know um xrp is a really huge community like they
have a deep like they have a whole different factions right they have like the institutional
players they've got the really cool d5 players and they're really cool you guys they have the
same ethos i'm telling you don't don't talk smack on the XRP. Those guys are
awesome. And they believe in a multi-chain world and all the stuff, privacy, no KYC.
Yes, I'll absolutely do that, Kenton. I'm going to do everything I can because I,
because they've been asking for that stable coin, RLUSD, 100%. So, yep, you can, you can count on
me to do that. Yeah. Cause it, and forgive me if I'm wrong, Chad, but now that the XRP blockchain is there,
adding RLUSD should be simple, right?
It shouldn't be that hard.
Yeah, it should just be, yeah, just add the pool.
And it won't be immediate.
It has to go through a pool churn,
which I think happens every three days.
But as long as the quantity, it's not like,
I figure what the exact amount minimum requirement is.
Off the top of my head, I think it's like 10, 000 rune or 10 000 that's what i thought too something like this
so it's not like a huge amount of money you need to throw into it just to get the pool started
but just go and get it started and then you know get 25 grand 50 grand 100 grand in it
so 10 000 rune plus the other asset so it'd be be $4,000 something. $4,000 of room, $4,000 RLUSD.
I mean, those people in your network, Denny,
all those guys, I mean, if they can't scrounge together
$8,000 of RLUSD between them,
stop talking to them.
They're not worth your time.
Those losers.
I mean, even like $100 each or something
yeah well I guess
the issue is there's no yield going to the pool
so it's hard to sell them on it
yeah I think it's more like
at this point it's more of a strategy
from the ecosystem's
perspective rather than a strategy
as an individual perspective
same thing with Thor chain,
like in terms of like our treasury,
like we,
we invested what was a hundred K,
whatever it was into the XRP pool.
We didn't do it for the yield necessarily.
We did it because we wanted,
it was valuable to the ecosystem as a whole to add this chain and get
access to,
XRP and all that kind of stuff.
So it has to come from the same kind of mentality.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The time being.
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Yeah, I'll do my best, my guys.
Really cool people over there.
I still have a lot more people to meet.
It's huge.
Such a big community.
Much bigger than ours.
So, you know, finding the winners is difficult.
Okay, so we had the Solana rollout, Chad.
A next topic, Zcash.
Maybe you want to talk about that a little bit?
Yes, Zcash will be the next one after Solana.
Right now it's being tested on the chain net, kind of stage net infrastructure.
We're working on getting the infrastructure, like Helmetchart stuff merged.
The code's already merged, it's being tested.
I think we'll be able to get this done probably in late April, maybe May.
We'll be able to do like a main net launch for Zcash and get that kind of rolling out.
So that's going to be the next chain added, and I think it's going to be a big one.
Because if you look at Solana's, not Solana's, sorry, Near's volume, a huge chunk of it, a surprisingly large chunk to be honest with you, it comes from Zcash.
I don't know if you can share the chart or whatever i'll send i'll put it in the chat here um
put it in the uh chat there if you want to bring it up on the screen dennis you can
but um yeah i think last i looked it was a huge chunk it was was zcash it's actually
for a while zcash was getting more volume on Near than Bitcoin was.
And that was like for, I don't know,
like a month or two or wherever it was.
And I was surprised that Zcash
was getting that much volume
on the exchange on Near.
You can see right there in that donut graph.
Most of it is USDT or USDC.
That's like, what is that together?
That's almost 70, 80% of their volume is just the stables alone.
And Bitcoin is at a 6.5% for their total trade volume.
This is in the last 24 hours, by the way.
And Zcash is only like 1%, less than 1% behind that.
That's pretty surprising if you ask me.
And those stables, like, I cannot but wonder if this is just all wash trading.
You know, they're just juicing up the metrics to show they got volume.
It could be.
But it's a green dollar going back and forth.
Wash trading back and forth between, you know.
Yeah.
Yeah, man, it is unusual to me how much is stables.
And those are just the two stables.
Like, there might be more stables, like, in the smaller little cuts of the pie. It surprised me how much is stables and those are just the two stables like there might be more stables like
in the smaller little little cuts of the pie uh it surprised me how much that is and and um
i wonder if yeah i don't know what's going on i don't want to make any accusations or or assumptions
but it's it's unusual that that that's like almost 80 is stables that that's kind of unusual
at first if you look at thorchain, the stables is good,
but it's not even 50%. I don't even think it's like 30%.
I think it could be bigger.
It would be bigger if we had bigger pools.
I think because the stable pools are actually small relative to ease.
Yes, you would get more uh yeah our our uh yeah traffic
going back and forth yeah yeah yeah and that's like it's the pools are small there in large
part because the market has pulled back significantly right ruins out of 40 cents or 42 cents whatever
it is right now which is obviously historically kind of low relative to the last few years but
the whole market is pulled back you know know, in such a big ways.
And so the pools get shorter just because of that reason alone.
And obviously the inverse is true.
Markets go more bullish, pools get deeper, more trade volume, so forth and so on.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, going back to the watch trading, it reminded me,
I saw a joke Elon put on Twitter the other day.
There's two economists going for a walk,
and one of them sees a piece of shit on the ground.
And the other guy says, I'll give you $100 if you eat that shit.
He's like, all right, fine.
So he eats it, he gets $100.
They keep walking.
They come by another pile of shit.
And the guy who just ate it got the $ bucks he goes to the other guy says i'll
give you a hundred if you eat that pile of shit and the guy's like all right sure deal so we eat
the people by the way yeah yeah they don't end up anymore no one has any more or less money
but they both ate you know two piles of shit but the economy is growing by $200.
That's wash trading.
They could have just eaten their own shit.
Exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
Their body naturally produces it anyway.
Yeah.
They didn't have to pay for it.
Yeah.
So it's, yeah.
It's, all right.
That's, I always question it.
Like that's same with Binance.
Apparently CZ. Yeah. Washing trading is totally a thing, right? Yeah. Um, especially,
especially centralized exchanges is even more true than decentralized exchanges.
This is a reason why it's illegal or there's like laws around it, right? Because it's, uh,
it can be so paints a really different picture from reality
and can really screw people.
By the way, I've never gotten that vibe from ThorChain.
I always felt like...
I don't think there's any wash trading.
I think it's all real.
Well, who would do it if somebody was doing it
other than the Treasury?
The Treasury has no interest in wasting money.
Yeah, right.
Because you're still going to pay the fees when you do it if you were
trading just between stables on thort chain you're still going to pay whatever the fees are right
yeah and like is it really worth the money no it's not worth money i'd rather just spend the
money and like actually get the volume by like doing something that would bring more volume to
us rather than just like blowing for the
treasury's funds that would be just so silly yeah and that's why i question that the stable volume
on neer because i'm pretty sure there's no fees that it's all going back and forth without well
i don't know what it is anymore they've made statements that they're going to change it i
don't i don't know what's going on there and part of me doesn't really even give a shit to be honest yeah yeah they're doing their thing
they can do whatever they want we have we have our strategy we know what our we know what our
roadmap looks like we know how to achieve yeah you know so we're gonna just keep moving forward
we we chatted about this yesterday chat offline but i'll say that again to the audience like i
you know the thort chain community often looks at near as like our competition and
like you know they are in a sense but it's like even if if they didn't exist and we had all of
their volume the room price would probably still be pretty much the same maybe it'd be up 50 or
something like it wouldn't be thor chain wouldn't be marginally different than what it is today
like our real competition is coinbase and binance
the centralized exchanges that's that's 99.9 of the volume is all there that's those are our
competition that's what we got to go after and um so yeah it's just near just kind of like you know
they're the first guys kind of taking some volume away but it's like you know it's like a sports
match you know you're never always leading
the score all of the time there's always some give and take and um we could have easily lost
some volume to centralized exchanges if it didn't exist so it's it's really yeah but that's why we
have to build kind of like feature parity with you know a binance or a kraken or whatever and
that's part of the reason why we wanted to add, you know,
limit swaps, for example, to get that kind of feature parity.
It's why, you know, we want to build like a pro interface to ThorChain's trading, right?
Like you have a pro interface on, you know, Kraken and Coinbase or whatever.
And get that, at least that feature parity.
And then at least you become more, you know, a stronger
competitor in that sense.
So that's one of the, I'll just mention a word of our goals or one of our roadmaps is
like is in that kind of direction, which is why I want to do limit spots, why I want to
do these programs, which is why we have the app, the app layer to help us achieve some
like, you know, futures, you know, and kind of more advanced trading methodologies and
leverage and the things you tend to get that are so popular on these on these sexes. So that is the direction
I think I want. I would like to see the protocol head towards and become more competitive with
a Coinbase or a Binance without you needing to send a picture of us of your passport,
you know, and all that kind of stuff, you know to this day like i i got kicked off of
coinbase personally right like i i this is a true story i used to trade on coinbase years ago
and then all of a sudden they said like well we don't want to service like service you anymore
you have to answer all these questions and they gave me like a list of questions i was reading
through i'm like dude this is fucking crazy like i can't remember i can't give them a good example
i have to go back to my emails and find it.
But the questions they were asking were so freaking up in my shit
that I'm like, I don't even want to deal with this.
I'm not going to answer your questions.
And then six months later, they turned off my account
because I refused to answer their silly fucking questions.
And I went to a different exchange for that reason.
It's ridiculous. It's absurd.
It's insane.
We're literally at the point where we have to prove our innocence.
And it's just, it doesn't end.
And like, it's so bad.
It's so onerous.
And like, man, it's just, when you're used to crypto,
and then you have to go use TroutFi.
It's like, oh my God, it is.
We can't win soon enough.
And it's like, we're all deep in the weeds in crypto.
So I think for me anyway, I'm assuming you guys too,
it's just obvious this is the new technology.
This is the way the world is going.
And it's just a matter of time for everyone else to figure it out.
Well, they want to be able to...
Yeah, finance them slowly.
Yes.
They want to KYC know everything about us, be able to audit us, but we can't audit them, right? And it's just, yes, they want us to, they want to KYC know everything about us,
be able to audit us, but we can't audit them, right? And it's just, no, we're done, right?
Well, and there's, there's been, even by like traditional, like, I want to say like,
maybe like KPMG or like some big auditor or something like that. But they say like more
money is spent on compliance and AML than is actually caught like it's like a net negative for society right and um
you know we're not actually the vast majority of it still gets away still isn't caught whatever
and then you know it's kind of like no different like gun laws like it's just the honest people
they get hurt right and you know the criminals still find ways to get around it but the honest
people get hamstrung and then you know we're we're excluded from the financial system chad can't
have a coinbase account right he can't he can't buy any bitcoin he can't you know so like it's
but they can wash trade up the wazoo exactly yeah like get out of town yes they they can have bank
with the glass window.
This is the perfect size for a briefcase to fit through with a full of $100 bills.
Like, that's okay.
But, yeah, I come to the bank with $500 to deposit in my account.
Where did you get this money?
So, yeah.
You can look at, like, look at Binance and CZ.
Like, they got found guilty of massive amount of you
know what's just called illegal activity and cz was you know got guilty and was going to jail and
then something happened with trump and got a pardon somehow uh i presume money was involved
but i don't know that act and like the whole system is just like corrupt from the from the
ground up.
You can be found guilty of the worst things, and you're still fine.
Nothing happens to you.
I'm just like, oh my god.
We are ruled by criminals.
Yeah, it's absurd.
Sorry.
Go ahead.
Honestly, Andreas Antonopoulos has some good stuff on it in the early days about it.
Like, if these, like, JPMorgan, HSBC, every year or two is getting fined for something.
It's just, you know, it's just a speeding ticket.
Yeah.
You can drive 150 miles an hour on the road.
That's fine.
You just, every now and then, you're going to get caught and pay a $500 ticket.
Like, it's the same with money laundering and whatever.
They'll just keep doing it.
Okay, they get caught.
They'll pay the fine.
Just start doing it. Yeah, and nobody goes to jail because you have to prove intent and, like, good luck trying to prove intent.
That's a very hard thing to do.
I remember I looked it up out of curiosity a few years ago.
I was like, how much money has your J.P. Morgans, your Bank of America's, your this, your that, whatever,
has your JP Morgan's your Bank of America's your this your that whatever how much money have they
paid to the government in fees or like in like you know in settlements or whatever and I looked around
and I was like oh my god it's like it's like almost the market cap of ethereum it was like
it was so much money I didn't look at America I look at like across the world as well but I was
just like it's so much money they paid out. And the time that they were caught, right?
And the times that they like settled or whatever,
they paid out so much money.
There was like almost the entire market cap of Ethereum.
And then you also have people like Jamie Dimon saying,
like, oh, Bitcoin's for criminals.
I'm like, dude, dude, what the heck?
Are you for real right now?
So ludicrous.
And then it begs the question,
well, the government is getting hundreds of billions of dollars
out of these fines.
Do they want the gravy train to end?
No, of course not.
They want that money coming in.
They want that money coming in.
And here's the crown jewel of it all.
This is what really ignites me as a person on this thing.
Is that, okay, Wells Fargo gets caught opening up checking accounts
with for people without their knowledge or awareness right totally illegal shouldn't be
doing it right they get caught they pay a fine do they pay the people they harmed in the process
no they pay the government the money that you lost in this fucking scam, you don't get the money back that they scammed you out of.
It gives it to the fucking SEC and they spend it on more lawyers to find more money to just...
It's so fucked.
Like, how can you just be like, okay, this bank just fucking raped 100 million people out of like $3-5 billion.
Let's just give it to the fucking government and to the people that were actually harmed by that
fucking organization or corporation get the fuck out of town I it ignites me as
a person it's most ludicrous idea that you all we're for you know law and order
here except we don't want to we don't want to protect the people we want to
protect our personal wants and make us make as much money as we can oh my god get out of town with
that how do you really feel chad oh i think it pisses me off it's so corrupt i mean come on
you cannot be saying i've heard you know a gensler and all sorts of sec people we're here to protect
the american investor no you're not you're looking for opportunities to make money for yourselves.
You don't protect the investor.
You protect your own wallets.
It's just not the case.
Get out of town.
Yeah.
This is why we ThorChain.
This is why we need ThorChain.
This is why we love transparency, right?
Open source code, open ledger.
Anybody can see all the transactions.
If there's no opportunity
to be like conniving no no opportunity it's extremely hard to be conniving because everything's
in freaking clear text you know and guys if you're out there listening to this and you believe in the
ethos that chad just said remember swap.thorchain.org swap.thorchain.org. Try it out, you guys. It's all there for you.
No KYC, permissionless, decentralized, layer one swap.
Swap.thorchain.org.
Join the team that's actually trying to fix the world.
Don't use TradFi.
There you go.
Don't use the TradFi.
There's your clip right there, boys.
Gosh dang it, I love you guys.
So, guys, we do have a couple more topics here.
Let me topics here.
Let me go here.
I'm going to your list, Chad.
I want to make sure.
So, oh, yes.
Memolus Outbound next week.
Do you want to break that down a little bit, sir?
Yes.
This has been merged on Mainnet for I don't know how many months,
and it kind of fell off the back burner or something like this.
But it's been running on Stagenet for quite a long time,
so I presume that it's been vetted pretty hardly, actually.
So hopefully, they'll flip that on on Mainnet next week,
I'm hoping, which is not an exciting feature.
It just means that when we send outbound transactions,
we don't use the memo field anymore.
And that's really nice because it just saves on gas and it gives it gives a little like a little anonymity a little bit harder to track where money is coming
from or whatever because it's not associated with a particular transaction hash and all these kind
of things um eventually we'll be getting rid of like memos entirely like we have memos we have
we have memos inbound which is what we we you know we launched and swapped that torch into org
has been using that for a while to do inbound memos. Now we have outbound memos being kind of removed.
And then the last one to do is like internal memos.
So like that's like UTXO consolidations, churns,
cancellations of transactions of like on Ethereum, for example,
a bunch of like small little things internally,
just to be a little more efficient on our gas and how we interact with the chains.
Perfect. Awesome. Nice and concise answer there. I love it.
Let's see here. Okay. ADR-23. That was by Boone. It has passed.
So maybe you want to give a break up down of how that's going to work now that
it has reached consensus?
Yes. So ADRr23 is largely about
just burning a bunch of the room i think this whole this whole thing started on this on this
thursday if i'm not mistaken started from a conversation i think me and kenton were having
weeks ago or months ago it was um and it's just about burning a bunch of the room that's in the
treasury from whatever it is now which is probably probably like 75, 76 million, whatever it is.
I'm thinking about the number off the top of my head
of what it's being burned down to.
I think it's leaving, is it 8 million or 9 million?
9 million something, I can't remember.
Yeah, something like that.
So we got passed and then I just opened up a GitLab issue
and assigned to Huguen, which is so, I find that hilarious.
And so Huguen's going to be working on that real soon
and then myself and others will review that code and you know get it merged and hopefully
we can get into 317 to make that burn happen and uh it's like like to just say you know this was
an adr you know we've been talking about it right but this is a bond provider not a node operator
bond provider he wrote this adr process um and it has reached consensus on the network, guys.
So this is just a reminder, you don't need to be a node operator to have an interesting change and affect the network.
So I just encourage more community activity, more community engagement.
So shout out to Boone. Good job and a great answer.
Kenton, were you going to say something? I hope I didn't cut you off.
I was just going to expand a bit in case someone who's listening isn't quite aware of what the ADR was.
But the 75 million-odd ruin in the reserve, which makes the total supply like 425 million,
and the max supply right now is 500 million.
And so the point of the ADR was to burn some of the reserve because we're technically not using it and reduce the max supply and get the total supply and max supply down to 360 million.
So it basically just tightens up the token structure so that the fully diluted value is basically equal to the market cap.
basically equal to the market cap.
And so that we, when ThorChain shows up on,
when analysts research,
people are researching different protocols,
that our FDV is much lower and looks more attractive.
And I love this.
This really tickles my OCD.
And cleaning things up and making them organized.
And I'm really looking forward to getting these metrics on all these uh like the messaris and token terminals of the world you
know getting these things going so um i feel very strongly that the the next wave of money coming
into crypto generalist investors these are the numbers they want to look at. And it's better for us to have the, it's like, like, kind of like your first impression. Once they see it, then they'll believe it. You know, if they see the wrong number, then it's really hard to explain to them that it's actually different. So, so I think, I think this will be good. And if worse comes to worse, we have to mint more rune, you know, one day for some reason in the reserve, then so be it.
We'll cross that bridge when it happens.
I think once this actually gets merged and live, we'll probably also make another change to the reserve
where we set the maximum supply of reserve to, let's call it $9 million or some number,
so that when the reserve makes a little bit more than 9 million, like 9,100,000 room,
or whatever the number is, the 100 gets pulled into system income as part of the network system
income. And then, you know, so it'll just, it'll like basically float. It won't, like,
it'll be 9 million and a little bit below, a little below, like a little below, like it'll
just kind of float around that number, you know, from block to block. And we'll just make a little,
a little bit of extra system income from that change as well.
We'll have to, won't we?
Because if the total supply right now is $360 million
and then we reduce the max supply to $360 million,
I guess we have the burn.
But let's pretend the burn doesn't exist.
Oh, no, but it's the same tokens.
So, sorry, guys.
My brain is a bit slow catching up.
Well, the burn is coming from the system income.
Yeah.
But if the rune is going into the reserve,
it's also coming out of the circulating supply.
So the total supply isn't changing.
It's just, okay, that's right.
Sorry, forgive me.
Yeah, I'll stop talking.
You're right.
No, you're right.
You're right.
So we're taking Rune out of supply, and we put it into the reserve.
And there's a handful of mechanisms of how we put Rune into the reserve.
I can't even remember what they all are off the top of my head, to be honest with you.
I have to go look it up.
But nothing's crazy, nothing's significant. But if we put it at $9 million now, we could come back
X number of years, 100 years from now, and it'll be back at $75 million again. Theoretically,
that would happen eventually at some point in time. I don't know how many years it would take,
but at some point in time, that would probably be true. But by setting the max supply of the
reserve to be at $9 million,
that whatever it makes over the next 100 years is just going to be kind of absorbed by the LPs and node operators as income.
It's the 0.02 RUNE gas fee and the excess gas fees charged on Ethereum and Bitcoin.
That's that extra little bit that goes into the reserve, right?
Yes, those are two of them.
There's probably a couple more mechanisms in there somewhere that are spread throughout the code base.
I have to go crawl into the code base and find out.
I forget off the top of my head where it all is.
But it is making approximately 5% of the system income we're making now is the reserve is making you know so we would increase the system income by about five percent
ish when we make this change um you know this i go back and forth someone said something confused
me and now i'm not remembering slashes from poor performance on notes does that does that
reallocate to other notes or does someone that go to the reserve uh so slack when you get a slash you don't your your your rune doesn't get touched it just creates
this adds more slash points just right to your node and then that just influences how much out
of the uh the bond module which is separate from the reserve you get for you know for income right
so if i'm a node operator and a lot of my daemons go down and i'm
getting slashed to hell all the rewards i would have gotten from from my performance assuming i
had done good that goes to gets redistributed to other node operators or does that go to the reserve
uh i would say it's probably most most accurate to say that it gets redistributed over time to
other node operators okay because like because when we when you. Because when we do the churn, we calculate how much rewards
should each node get.
And we minus slash points as part of the calculation.
So you may have been like, originally,
you were getting 1,000 rune, some quantity of rune.
But you're actually going to get 900 rune in this scenario.
So the 100 just kind of stays in the module
in the background there. Right. Okay. Okay. And so then when next time we, I think I have to
go through and look, look again to be, to, to, to convince myself of, of how that works again.
I haven't looked at that code in probably four years. Yeah. I haven't thought about in a while
myself. That's why I'm like doubting myself yeah like i'm going back into like the archives
over here to remember this which i could be misremembering too maybe i'll do it this weekend
or something just to kind of refresh the memory yeah well it just shows you how complicated uh
thor chain well it's not it's just so big right and there's so many little nuances to remember
and people like us were like wait a minute is that how it works yeah imagine just designing it all oh my god i
could not no i didn't being tasked to like architect all of these behaviors everything
from how we manage gas to how nodes churn in and churn out and how you get churned out how i mean
it was a it was a i did not know at the time how gargantuan it was going to be to to design
actually this whole thing but right. Now that you know,
would you go back
and do it again? No, I would not have done it.
I would not
have done it.
I did not know when I first started
to work on this project
how complicated this was going to be
and how difficult it was going to be.
And that difficultness became more
clear over time you know as it
was like kind of like a little bit of a drip rather than like a flash of a flash of lightning
in my brain that realized well this is actually really complicated this is why nobody else has
solved this problem yet it's actually really hard to solve this problem this is why it's been a holy
grail in crypto for like three years at that point that I started working on this, on this issue, four years went, you know? Um, so no, longer than that. Uh, yeah,
seven years, I guess, or something like that, whatever the number is. I think
shapeshift started in 2013 and that was the core problem that they were trying to solve. And we
didn't really start building this in 2019. So that's a long time, right? Well, there's a,
there's a really famous, sorry to interrupt you. There famous um well i call it famous uh soundbite that you've said multiple times and that is you talked to a
builder i don't think you disclosed who that was and you asked him why aren't you doing native
bitcoin swaps and he said well it's really hard and then you said yeah yeah i remember but it
needs to happen right but looking back you're like gosh, I wasn't sure I was ready to chew on all that.
But you did it. You know what I mean? I do remember that was I'm not sure if I should dox who that was at the time.
Right. But it was it was on it was on Clubhouse. I think it's called Clubhouse.
The name of the the Twitter spaces before I was on Twitter, think it was called clubhouse if i remember correctly this is like 2021 days right and i was on some clubhouse and
one of the speakers was uh a very a founder of a very popular uh protocol on ethereum at that time
and it still is very popular one of the og rock solid things you know like the uniswap level
you know and that person was on there. And I went
up on the stage to kind of ask the question, like, have you guys thought about, you know,
doing cross chain? And he's like, Oh, yeah, we thought about it. I was like, well, why aren't
you? And he says, well, it's, it's, it's a really hard problem. And I don't, I was like, yep,
yeah, it is. I know that. Because like, even at the time, I think when he was talking about,
he was like, Oh, well, maybe we just do like EVM to EVM because that's a lot easier to do.
And I was like, why don't you just do like Bitcoin? Because Bitcoin's Bitcoin. I mean, come on, like it's Bitcoin, right?
And he's like, oh, that's really too hard of a problem.
Like, well, I get what you're saying, but it is needed.
You can't just like omit the most important asset of the entire crypto industry and be like, eh, whatever.
You kind of have to include it, you know, for obvious reasons.
That was a really fun conversation.
Yeah. The reason why I asked you is just,
I wanted people to understand that it's not anyone could have built this
protocol. It only took the most determined individuals that understood that.
And that's why Thor chain and my protocol,
we stand apart because we tackled the hardest question. I do,
I do have some community
questions i know we're coming on two hours here not many um and kenton my question might trigger
you so you might want to go get a little little earmuffs okay but just remember it's it's all
about swap volume okay so this person wants to know hey what are the odds that thor chain would
create a pool for xaut or paxXG, which is a gold derivative?
Gold's been on the high demand, great way to pack up some extra volume.
They're both ERC20 coins.
Would that be something that we could add to ThorChain?
Why would I be bothered by that question?
Because you don't like LARPing derivatives for gold and silver.
Oh, it's so different than RAP Bitcoin, right? Right. Yes. Because you don't like LARPing derivatives for gold and silver. But hey, you're all...
You're only so different than RAP Bitcoin, right?
Right.
Yes.
I was playing with you, Mike.
RAP Gold, effectively.
Yeah.
We're in exchange.
From ThorChain's point of view, I don't care what you trade.
Just trade it on ThorChain.
That's right.
Right, so...
Same here.
Same here.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Those coins could be added.
I presume they're already part of the whitelist on accepted ERC-20s.
We do have a whitelist that we ban specific...
We have a whitelist, so we whitelist specific coins that can be added.
I don't think we maintain that list.
It's really like a rip we took from like one inch, you know?
And we do that largely
because we don't want people putting up you know fake uniswap you know tokens or fake ethereum
tokens on our on our you know exchange and people kind of get rugged in that kind of way we don't
like people getting rugged for obvious reasons we do the best we can to stuff that could happen
um and so yeah if somebody wants to add that pool go hey man go right ahead like you can
there's nothing really i don't think there's anything stopping you from adding that pool if you really want to.
Would the treasury do it?
It's probably not worth the treasury's money, you know, as a net benefit to the ecosystem of ThorChain.
But if any individuals out there who are big, giant, you know, PAX Gold, you know, fans or whatever, have at it.
There you go.
I gave – I talked to randy a bit
about this i gave him a list of 30 tokens they're like like on ethereum solana base whatever um
and they're like the top 100 by market cap top 100 by volume and i asked him like could you maybe
reach out see if we can get some kind of grant or something where they can see the pool um because the for the the person asked the question denny like i totally agree like i would
i personally would love to see all these different pools um but just where do we get the money where
does it come from and you know if we can get there these foundations to do a grant and then great
um the other thing i was thinking of you know i keep I keep bringing it up, is that I've, you know, my mind is stuck on, you know, why are we having the POL just kind of just stay fixed?
Why don't we use it, you know, rearrange it a bit, and we can maybe use some of it to use the POL to seed some of these new pools?
Like, for example, the Bitcoin pool doesn't have to be that big, that deep.
You know, it's pretty darn efficient.
Like, I mean, we all celebrate a $32 million trade, but we're not doing them every day.
And like, to be frank, there's nowhere else to do it even close.
So like, if the Bitcoin pool is slightly smaller, we're still going to be able to do $32 million trade, no problem.
Yeah, the funny thing is that if we have,
in theory when rapid swaps is fully swinging,
which was just enabled today,
and it'll take wallets,
wallets have to use the feature.
It has to, like, you know,
it doesn't just, every trade just becomes rapid swaps,
but that'll happen over the coming weeks, I'm hoping.
But, like, if we were to half the size of the pool and then enable rapid
stuff with just you know two rapid steps per block then that would effectively
cancel out that in some sense so that 32 million trade the dollar trading time
out took about 12 hours to execute on Thor chain and so we can take out half
the liquidity and then enable rapid swaps and and then it would be the same, you know, 12 hours to execute the same trade.
Or, you know, so the rapid swaps is in itself
kind of creating more efficiency in that kind of way,
meaning that you could do a smaller pool
and get just as fast performance as a larger pool
because of the rapid swaps, you know, functionality,
to your point, Kevin.
Yeah, that's really bullish um i do someone uh
coke did ask a pretty interesting question there's another one from soda but um uh and i don't really
understand fully but it says pack g they have a fee a transaction fee does that affect an integration
on thor chain really um is this something that we can calculate is this i guess this is like
an additional fee on the rc oh that's a good question
oh is it like this like an annual fee like like uh when you hold the token it's it's being
it's losing value on yourself or have a transaction fee so i'm assuming the money
they have gas fees which is the ethereum gas fees but i'm assuming he's referring
to that there's a there's a transactional fee as well including a gas fee on top of that uh i don't
know how a fortune would handle that to be honest i'd have to look more deeply at it to to know but
what's most likely to happen i presume is that we would send a transaction to send you like 10
PAXG tokens or whatever the hell the acronym is. And instead of you receiving 10, you receive
10 minus 0.02%, which might be a problem from an observational perspective. Like the network
might say like, we signed 10, but we actually sent out 9.8 or whatever it is, right? And then we might slash ourselves because we signed a
transaction in a different amount than what we intended to, which the network would interpret
that as like, this is an unauthorized transaction because it's not the exact transaction that we
wanted to happen.
So it actually might even trigger like a slashing event to be honest with you.
Wow. Okay. So maybe there are some issues with that particular asset. Good question,
Coke. Thank you for doing that. Let's see. A lot of alts launched with 5% traction fee in bear market. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I don't know.
I don't know if we have any current. Or we do, and we already handle it appropriately.
That's also possible.
Okay.
There's another question here.
This is relative to the transaction fee, the gas fee on Rune.
It says, you know, it's historically been 0.2 cents.
Could we, instead of do 0.02 Rune, could we do relative to a stable coin, so just like make it 10 cents or 8 cents instead of just 0.02 rune could we um uh do relative to a stable one so just like make it 10 cents or 8 cents instead
of just 0.02 so it's always 8 cents 10 cents instead of just you know whatever the value of
ruin is yeah yeah we could do that uh i think that i remember us actually doing it like year
like a couple years ago and i don't remember if it was actually deployed or got delayed or
i remember talking about it i thought it was going to be fixed at 20 cents i thought it may already be done to be honest with you i can't even
0.02 um but yes we can use we can use tor to effectively figure out how much room we need in
this particular transaction to charge 20 cents yeah yeah the only thing is man is so nice having a fixed gas fee
so you don't have all this dust sitting in wallets um that is true it's so nice um yeah but i i get
what is okay yeah i think about it more um okay yeah good question guys um let me see i thought
i had one more oh shoot I lost my thingy.
I got another question.
Go ahead.
Maybe we're looking there, Denny.
Chad, you mentioned with rapid swaps that the wallets have to turn it on.
So is this like a brand-new type of swap?
Like is it – I thought this all happened in the background.
It's just automatic.
Well, I could have done it in that kind of way, but I chose not to.
The reason why is because you should be able to say, I want to use rapid swaps,
and also I do not want to use rapid swaps.
You should have the choice to do either.
So it's not really a new swap necessarily.
It's just like the memo that you use to tell the network what your intent is,
one of the little attributes you can put into that is the interval.
And the interval is like how fast do you want your subswaps to go in a streaming swap, right?
You want like one every block, one every two blocks, one every five blocks,
or you can do like one every like 10,000 blocks if you want to do a DCA kind of thing, right?
And so rapid swaps uses the zero mark.
So if you want to use rapid swaps,
you set the interval to equal to zero,
and then it'll swap it as fast as humanly possible
that the network can withstand more or less.
And if you set your interval to one,
you're gonna do one sub swap per block.
So you're not gonna use a rapid swaps feature
at all in that scenario.
So for the swap. death or china.org we would just need to change
the that one character from a one to a zero and you're good well so sorry i'm i'm bit confused so
like on a streaming swap if we set the interval to zero, then the protocol will decide how to break up this, break the swap up into increments.
That's quantity. That's a different attribute.
That's a quantity. Okay. I'm giving you 1,000 rune. Quantity tells the network how many sub-swaps you want to make.
And zero is basically like a wild card notion of like,
give me the maximum number of sub-swaps that the protocol will allow,
whatever that number is, right?
I mean, for 1,000 rune, let's just say it's 10 swaps in that scenario, right?
So you could say 10 in the quantity.
You could say 5.
But you could not say 20.
The network wouldn't allow it, and it would just reject the trade entirely.
So most people, 99% of the time, people just put 0.
It just means give me the fastest, the best execution, like the best price,
and they'll pay the least in fees of the most amount of sub-swaps.
That's quantity.
Interval is how often we want those those sub swaps to be traded.
And so one is every block, two is every two blocks, three is every three blocks,
and zero now represents rapid swaps of like as many trades as possible, as fast as possible.
Just give me, just execute this trade, you know, as quickly as possible.
And then the quantity will give you like the most amount of subswaps possible.
Does that make sense?
I think so.
So, because before,
the zero on the interval
was like a market order.
Like, sell as fast as possible.
And so it is still the same.
Sell as fast as possible,
but now we have rapid swaps.
Yeah, I think, like uh i don't think i don't know i can't remember what the behavior was before i think zero would have been
an invalid or either it's another invalid and went into a refund or maybe it would have just defaulted
to one right because one would be a market swap and like that would be as fast as possible well one is one block yeah one is one
is one block but if you did like one quantity and one block it would be like it would be a
non-streaming swap it would just be trade everything right now in a single block that would be like a
market swap as fast as possible no sub swaps everything in a single block, like, you know, ThorChain OG days, like 2.2 days.
Right?
And so I think off of memory, I don't think zero made any sense for intervals before the rapid swaps implementation.
But I could be mistaken.
And the reason I'm asking this is because I'm trying to hash this out on STO.
And I can't, I'm getting it wrong and same with the
unstoppable guys like we're going to the docs and we're like we'll get something wrong here
so okay i thought quantity one interval you said quantity one interval one is like old school just you know sell it right away yep i thought if we set the interval
to zero that defaulted the trade to the old way to the just um just sell everything um
okay it's one and one one and one and i think using zero as an interval before rapid swaps
i think was a non think was an invalid request
because you're telling the protocol,
like interval is like,
how often do you want to make your stream?
If your zero is like,
zero means nothing before rapid swaps.
Or it was like,
because the fastest you could do is one every trade,
one every block rather.
So one would be the smallest number possible
before rapid swaps.
To ask for something zero
would have been nonsensical
from the network's
perspective because it only has you know it only can do one every block right you can't do more
than one trade every block but now rapid swaps you can do multiple trades in a single block
you know okay so we can still do uh quantity one interval one to have like that instant cell order um now if we want to do rapid swaps are basically as fast as we can um we want to set the the
interval to zero now the what if the quantity is one but interval is zero then it's it's the that would be the same as uh quantity one and interval one
okay because it's just it's you're if the quantity is one you're only got one trade to do
yeah it doesn't really matter if it's happening like yeah at the beginning of the block or the
middle block or the next like it just it's just gonna execute the entire thing so i think what's
probably going to happen for for something like uh forO is you're going to do interval zero and quantity zero, just zero, zero.
And that just tells the protocol,
I want you to execute the best price execution possible as fast as possible.
I think that's probably going to be the default for every UI out there
in a short period of time i would i would suspect
that's why i want to try to make sure i understand it so that um we can display it properly and like
i'm still in my mind i'm like we maybe we should still give the person the ability to do one and
one like like like that instant self or whatever um but i gotta just think about how to make warnings or explain it or whatever
um okay this actually this is really good so so for sto for example they'll just have to change the settings in the back end to to enable literally okay um now it doesn't does it but that
doesn't hard code it to rapid swaps it just it's now giving that wallet the ability to do rapid
swaps telling it what zero means yeah okay okay okay all right cool yep perfect and that's like unless you don't want
to use rapid swaps you can set it to one and that would be the same behavior as it was yesterday
yeah yeah yeah okay so then why would somebody not want to do it what why would uh it's there
but like if if uh i put it there for a couple reasons but the primary reason was that like if
there was a problem with rapid swaps like say swap kit was using rapid swaps and they found some sort of something they didn't like about the behavior of it they can just
opt out right and say i just want to do kind of the old behavior it's just like it's good to have
an ability to opt in or out of any new behavior just so you can you know revert back if you need
to without us needing to like turn off rapid swaps entirely and default everybody back to
you know the older behavior which we might do if there's a significant issue of some kind, but most likely that wouldn't
be the case.
I have a crop of fingers, hope to die.
And it's up to each individual user interface or wallet or aggregator or whatever to decide
or wallet or aggregate or whatever to decide what they want to do.
what they want to do.
My hope is that people like SwapKit and STO will adopt it hopefully this week or next week
and we'll start testing the feature out with a lot of good volume.
And my hope is that once something like SwapKit uses it,
all of a sudden the time it takes to do the actual streaming swap gets halved, right?
And so the amount of time it takes to execute on Thorchain becomes quicker, right, from a quoting perspective at least.
And that should give us more competition against your chain flips and your nears and whatever.
And we'll probably win some more trades against our, you know, our quote-unquote competitors and get a little bit more volume relative to them.
Is this in the docs?
How do I send a PR to the
unstoppable, to the devs?
How do I communicate this
that they've got to change the setting?
I would just tell them
set the interval to default to zero.
That's it.
That's all you've got to do.
Like I said, one character change.
They're probably already defaulting to one right now, I presume.
If they're not already defaulting to zero, I presume they're to one right now.
You can ask them.
I'm pretty sure it's one.
Yeah, and just tell them to change it to zero.
Okay.
And that's it.
Okay.
Although it would be nice for STO to have the ability to do DCA, right?
That is a feature I want to work on in the nearest future. for STO to have the ability to do like DCA, right?
That is a feature I wanna work on in the nearest future. It's actually not hard to implement it
from ThorChain's perspective,
but just having the option of being able to DCA,
you know, into or out of any particular asset.
DCA means dollar cost averaging
for anybody who doesn't know.
And it's a fancy way of saying,
I wanna buy a little bit of Bitcoin, you know, every day,
you know, day you know or
every week or something like this i want to buy a hundred dollars of bitcoin every month right
and so you can just get like a bunch of usdc throw it in your wallet whatever you know do a trade
like a little bit of usdc at a time over six months or one month or three months or one year
or whatever uh and so that'd be a nice feature to have can you and the reason
that you can't do now is because you have to set in a slippage tolerance and so if the price gets
away from you your your cancel will order yes well you wouldn't normally if you're dca you wouldn't
put a slippage tolerance in general right you're just you're like you're blindly just buying
whatever the market's happening it It's an investment strategy.
So you just put it at zero.
The target of Bitcoin that I want is zero,
and you just kind of buy a little bit every day, right?
The problem with this, though, from a technical perspective,
is that right now market swaps can't really be canceled, right?
And so if you start like a six-month process
to buy a little bit of Bitcoin over the next six months, it's like, once you set the order, like you're kind of screwed and you're
just going to be buying for the next six months, no matter what happens. And that is obviously not
a great user experience. You can do that for limit swaps where you can like cancel a transaction,
right? But you can't do it on a market swap. And this kind of goes back to what I was saying
months ago on this podcast, where I was saying that we've had this organic kind of evolution of the swapping mechanisms of
ThorChain over the last, you know, since 2020. So it's been like six years. And we've just added a
little feature here and like limit swaps and streaming swaps and this and this. And it's
kind of had this kind of this organic kind of growth.
But it really could use a complete kind of refactor
so that we don't have different types of, oh,
there's regular swaps and streaming swaps and limit
swaps and DCA swaps and this swaps.
And it just becomes kind of overbearing or confusing
to the client or the customer or whatever.
And just say, we just have swaps,
and there's basically two attributes that you can control, right?
It's like how fast you want to trade
and what is the price execution that you want to receive.
And then a trade target as well, a third one, trade target, right?
Which is basically a limit order gives you more or less.
So it's like these little kind of these three attributes control all of these different types
of swaps, and maybe it makes sense to like just kind of simplify and refactor so that's not so
complicated. And then everything gets the same treatment too. It's like you can cancel market
swap, you can cancel limit swap, you can cancel a streaming swap, you can cancel this swap,
because it's all the same thing in the end.
Perfect. I do have two questions. One I think I can answer. Someone wants to know when the next
update for ThorChainAge. Correct me if I'm RomChad, I believe it's April 3rd from memory.
Yeah. April 3rd. Sorry, let's be clear. April 3rd is when we're going to cut through 17. So it's about
two weeks away. We're going to cut it. We have to build the release. We have to notify our partners
like Binance, for example. They go through their like two-week process, I think it is,
and then we release it at that point, and then it gets adopted by the protocol.
There we go. And the next question is, this is a request from somebody actually on the Rujira side, and they were wondering, could ThorChain.net be, gosh dang it, where did it go? I got it right here. Yes, here we go.
They wanted to know if we can transform ThorChain.net into a more user-friendly block explorer with maybe the help of AI and some other features?
That was their story.
Maybe, sure.
I mean, there's a dev that works on that.
I'm not going to dox their name
because they haven't given me permission to do so.
But yeah, we have a dev that works on that particular UI.
Yeah.
I was actually working on this myself for a while
and I got distracted with like Thorchain work, but I had a fully, um, functioning beta that you
could, that would allow you to have like a chat GBT like interface as a block explorer slash code
explorer slash document explorer. And so it was a fully customized AI, that thing that you could talk to, like in a browser.
It was going to work in Discord and even Twitter or like Telegram or whatever.
And you could interact with it and ask it any question you want about Thor Chain, you
know, or Bitcoin.
It's going to work for multiple different blockchains.
And you could ask, like, oh, what's the balance of my, this Thor address, right? Like how many runes in this Thor address? oh what's the balance of my this thor address
right like how many runes in this thor address or what's the volume of thor chain of last
seven days and you could just ask arbitrary questions and it would generate you know answers
to everything yeah it sounds it sounds helpful uh kenton were you trying to say something
i think it was but i totally forget
no we've been talking a while we've been talking a while yeah what jesus but um we're on two hours right now um it's been a great great he was actually
he was asking me about thorting.net when when i oh that's sorry you're right um i was gonna say
in in discord his his handle is uh who he rent um yeah yep um yes okay um so we're coming at two hours you guys i don't think i have any
more questions thank you to everyone who submitted questions throughout the week and the ones who
did new questions always appreciate the engagement i hope we're doing a good job answering them we
don't care we'll answer anything you want full transparency as always um chad is there any well
okay i know it's coming i this is me. This is selfish. Hugin?
Hugin's still kicking butt?
How's that going?
Hugin is kicking butt.
I'm sorry.
Okay.
Mostly it's been about just, like, correcting some weird behaviors
around how it comments on PRs and that kind of thing.
It's contributing a lot.
I mean, it's getting better and better.
And I think the – what was the next,
I think, again, the next major thing is monitoring mainnet,
but that's a huge amount of work
that requires a lot of time and effort,
which I do not have time for right in this particular moment.
But I do want to work with the, probably the Liquify guys
to build some infrastructure that Huguen can pull from
to generate time series,
it's called time series data, which is basically like kind of like just data graphs about every
metric you can think about in ThorChain's world. It could be block times, it could be swap volume,
it could be, I don't know, arbitrarily just tons and tons of different data, and then do a
mathematical analysis of that, and then generating events from that mathematical analysis,
and then populating that into Discord,
and then pulling that Discord stuff into Huguen,
and Huguen can get those events,
and then Huguen can analyze those blocks
to find out anything unusual.
But that's a huge amount of work
that I do want to work on in the next quarter or so.
That does remind me a question
someone asked me i forgot to ask it um i forgot to write it down um people want to know with all
the transition we could have talked that's way good it's my fault um what about thorsec are they
still a thing or is this okay so thorsec is an unchanged is that fair to say uh yeah so it's not
the same team as we had in 2021 to be fair but we still have a full-time security team.
Right now, it's predominantly an external firm called Soda Labs that we've been employed for, I don't know how long, I think it's been two years, one year.
I don't remember how many years. It's probably two years.
And so Soda Labs has been doing the role of that.
They spent a lot of their time just responding to bug bounties.
We just got a huge influx of them,
largely because of Claude and there's the AIs
that everybody's just submitting forms all the time,
which can be quite time-consuming to look at them all
and making sure they're valid or not valid or whatever.
They do have on the roadmap a couple more things
they've been pushing them on.
One is improving the invariance of the protocol.
An invariant is a sanity check,
to use a kind of layman's terms.
It's like, you know, one example would be like
the supply of runes shouldn't be above the max supply,
which is like 500 million, right?
If it gets above that number,
then that's something's fundamentally broken
if that happens, right?
So there's like a, probably like a dozen
or I don't know how many there are off the top of my head.
So there's more work to be done to improve those kind of standard checks,
those real-time alert systems that can automatically pause a chain or whatever
when some invariant trips.
That's one thing I have them kind of focusing on.
And the other thing I'm focusing on is DKLS,
which is kind of far away from even working on it,
let alone getting it deployed to mainnet.
But they have the right team behind them to be able to implement DKLS
in a way that's compatible with our necessary needs.
And so that's something I want them to be delivering for the community
at some point in this year.
Perfect. There you go. Awesome.
And, oh, shit, I forgot what i was gonna say now gosh dang it
um oh i want to say to you chad you got a lot of praise on the community um that's been spreading
the word about you know hugan and finding half of an exploit right half the half of the equation
and and and it saved a lot of money from the bug bounty that we would have had to pay.
So kudos to you.
People wanted me to relay that to you, so good job.
Okay?
Yeah.
And after that, I don't think I got anything else.
Kenton, can you think of anything else, good sir?
Actually, I was going to bring this back to Vegas and the meetup.
Yes, go.
If you guys are going, please come.
Please RSVP, let me know.
I was just thinking about
actually Liquify.
If I remember correctly, Chad,
Isaac told me he met you
at a side event at a conference.
You guys stayed in touch.
Liquify started running some nodes.
They started getting involved in ThorChain
and the community. That's how I found them.
I met them.
I run more nodes with them.
Now they're taking over infrastructure.
So, you know, it's just, this is life.
This is how it goes, right?
You never know where a chance meeting
and introduction to someone, what it can lead to.
So, guys, if you're in Vegas, please come say hi.
Let's meet each other.
Let's hang out.
Yeah. I, yeah.
I met Isaac.
Go ahead.
Isaac's great.
He's one thing I love about Isaac is he's just got like a really positive attitude and
he's like always down.
I feel like I could throw anything at Isaac.
You know, like Isaac, I want this done, whatever, like this could be anything.
And Isaac'd be like, yeah, I'm totally down on getting that done.
Like he's in such a positive attitude and he's always just down to like contributing more
to the protocol like whatever it is i need he'll he'd be like down to doing that which i just love
the love the attitude of him so like yeah absolutely he's been around for quite a while
and he's been contributing you know on and off in various ways and and it's been slowly kind of
growing and and now it's even more so as to your point you were just making.
So yeah, I love that attitude
and anybody who wants to come out to the
Bitcoin conference, say hello to Kenton.
I'm going to try to make it myself. I'm not guaranteeing
it right now. I need to make sure that
I have a daughter and things would make it
more complicated for me to travel.
But I
would love to go down and I could meet
some Thor chats out there or some Thor chicks maybe too.
Who knows?
We do have a, I think it's a female name who RSVP'd.
Oh, is it?
Okay, good.
Yeah, yeah.
Positive, positive.
Actually, my girlfriend, she's been joking about going to these events
as like Lady Sif.
I think she's kind of like, I think she's taken the name Sif as her own person,
even though she's not really engaged in the community
at this point in time at least.
She wanted to come with me to Vegas
and maybe come to the Thorchat event.
Yeah, awesome, for sure.
Is Sif a Norse term or word?
It is.
It's a Nordic term.
I forget what it means exactly at the top of my head, but yes, absolutely.
I think it's one of the warriors in Thor's guards or something like this.
I don't know.
I can look it up real quick.
I looked at the genesis of the word Hugin, and I thought that was pretty cool.
I thought that was aptly decided by you, Chad.
So pretty cool.
Yeah.
I like that one too, Huguen. I think it's like, it represents intelligence in the Nordic mythology. And that just made logical sense to me, you know, like, I have
a good fit, you know, perfect.
But then like, if I do a build another one, I wanted to call it Huguen and Munen. And
Munen would be the chat GVT open AI implementation of Hugin. And so I
have two bots running concurrently with each other and maybe even having communications
APIs to each of them. And so they can freely talk to each other and make phone calls to
each other. Phone a friend, I guess, if you put it into who wants to be a millionaire
terminology. And they're dealing with some problem, whatever.
Hey, I'm a little stuck here.
Hey, friend.
And then have a conversation across some sort of API or whatever
so that they can reference each other as aids in their process.
I thought that was really a fascinating notion.
I don't know if that's really going to work out in reality,
but I thought it was really cool in concept.
Yeah, yeah. Speaking of B going to work out in reality, but I thought it was really cool in concept. Yeah, yeah.
You know, speaking of BTC, the girls in company, I think it was two years ago, it was Ethereum.
I think it was your sister that came, and she's really cool.
Yeah.
Yeah, your sister's really cool, too.
Yeah.
So, yeah.
My big sis, yeah.
Your big sis, yeah.
She's legit.
She's gotten big into crypto ever since into crypto ever since I got into crypto.
I think she started to get into it in 2020, I think it was.
And she's been working in it for a long –
she worked for a few different projects in the crypto land
as a communications writer, editor, that kind of thing.
That's cool.
Yeah, we need more Thor Chadettes.
That's what we need.
So, yeah, if you know any girls, bring them in.
You know, it's a bit of a sausage mess around here.
Thor Chadettes.
You know what I mean?
It's what we need.
It's what we need.
And Coke says here on the thing, Vegas Coke and Chicks.
Yeah, so as Kenton said, you guys, there will be hookers there,
but they might not have any teeth.
We are on a bit of a budget.
Okay?
Well, hey, Dad that some people might pay
more for hey it's why we gotta get alux to bring him up from mexico hey lux help us out brother
perfect awesome oh yeah well thanks coke coke says i come with a dress so the hooker will be coke
okay it'll be don't be coke and it will be coke. Okay. I'm just saying, um, it'll be B Y O H bring your own hooker. Perfect. Okay. Guys, you think we
should wrap it there? What do you think? All right. So yeah, I can wrap it there. Okay, guys.
Uh, let me check the list here. So, um, uh, what is it today is, um, okay this saturday guys we're gonna have peer a no key uh kyc fiat on ramp off on and
off ramp excuse me really excited to talk to them um always remember guys um this is not financial
advice the fuse express here are solely of those of the hosts and guests any action take based on
this information is zero and risk past performance is not indicative of future results uh you guys
heard from the early in the conversation you know nine realms a lot of bps are going to be switching
around this might be a really great time guys if you're out there if you want to be a node operator
um there might be some free floating bps so please if you want to be a node operator reach out to at
rune tard on x he can help you get up and find bond providers as well and lastly guys um you know for thor chain data
and insights follow ray analytics on x he does a great job writing the recaps of these live streams
too so you guys can definitely look forward to that with that being said you guys this has been
a fantastic live stream i had so much fun thank you to alex for coming out and thank you guys for
all the questions this is great boys you guys have a great rest of your week and we'll see you next time thanks guys see you peace take care guys
