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loudio killed CT
Recorded: May 30, 2025 Duration: 1:03:39Space Recording
Short Summary
In a lively discussion, crypto enthusiasts explored the latest trends in the industry, including significant fundraising efforts, the impact of partnerships, and the challenges of user retention. The conversation highlighted the growing intersection of AI and blockchain, as well as the need for sustainable marketing strategies to foster long-term growth.
Full Transcription
Music Thank you. It would be really nice if I could pull the correct spaces link, but no.
It wants me to go out and use a new link.
So here we are.
We are here.
Just give me a moment, guys.
I'm going to try to shoot this one out.
What's going on?
I see El Tankway, Zach.
What's happening?
House, Jordan, what's going on?
You guys want to take over for a moment?
I absolutely
love takeovers, especially when they're
hostile.
That's lovely.
Yeah, man. You know, nothing like just
going into a company, acting
like you run the place, acquiring the shares,
then kicking something out. I've never
actually done that. I've never actually done that.
I've just been watching... Shoot, what's the show called?
Not Entourage.
It's not HBO.
This is going to crush me.
Jordan, you know what show I'm talking about?
I think it's on HBO.
They're essentially after the Murdoch family at Fox.
Succession. Succession, that'sdoch family at Fox. Succession.
Succession.
That's what it is.
Oh, Succession.
What a good show.
That possible take over time in mind.
Just wanting to rule the world.
Such a good show.
Are you talking loudio?
Yeah, we're going to get loud while we do that.
That came out weird. Yeah, we're going to get loud while we do that. I just went to
one of those super hip
TikTok bakeries
and I'm eating the best chocolate croissant
of my life, so it was worth it.
That's a whole W.
It's such a W.
Got a hip little pole brew,
hip little chocolate croissant,
hip little Twitter space.
Croissant! croissant. Hip little Twitter space. Croissant.
Croissant.
Bro, a chocolate croissant heated to the right temperature where the chocolate's melty,
but it's not going to burn your tongue when you bite in.
Goated.
That's exactly what I'm eating.
I'm honestly jealous.
I haven't had breakfast yet, so that would have been a great thing to grab
I'm on the Lower East Side
Because I'm getting a haircut
At one o'clock, I'm going to cut it all off
And I was like
Full bald, no
But my commitment to the space here
I decided to come down an hour early
So I could just walk around
And do the space Instead of having to bail to travel here I decided to come down an hour early so I could just walk around and do
the space instead of you know having a bail to travel you know we could have
planned this Jordan which part you want to move you want to move to space
because of my haircut no no I mean I could have I could have came to New York
we could have done it together could have walked around the city oh you could
have gotten a haircut with me and gone actually need a haircut, so that would have
been great.
Next time. We should do
something soon, though. I'm going to be in Jersey a lot.
Cool. Yeah, I'm around, so...
Are you going to get some cannolis
when you go to Jersey?
You sound like you're
making a joke, and I will absolutely
be getting cannoli when I go to Jersey.
Because Jersey has good cannoli.
See what I mean, Cardi?
As New York and New Jersey natives...
I'm a, uh, I'm an eclair person personally, but, uh, cannoli are good.
I gotta ask you guys, as Jordan's New York, Cardi's native to New Jersey, when it comes to Buddy's Cake Shop, not the guy from Cake Boss,
what are your thoughts on it?
I'm going to dox my location.
I live right next to the Cake
Boss place.
It's right there.
I go down the stairs and I'm right
there. I won't say what direction, but I'm right there.
That was
from back when I was in high school. I had a friend
in Coboken who lived right there and i went a few times i yeah so what are your guys thoughts on
the desserts and pastries there i don't remember i've had 15 years of desserts and pastries since
so yeah i'll be honest i don't even eat the desserts i go in for the breakfast special
so the breakfast special is fire i'll get
like a coffee i'll get a croissant like a uh what do i get on that like a big and egg and cheese
on a on a croissant it's fire and then they'll give me like a hash brown you just can't so good
there is like i've always been a bigger fan of their like breakfast food than their bake shop
i don't know what it is but i feel like after the show started taking off,
the quality of the dessert started going downhill,
but that breakfast sandwich stayed the same.
See, this is the mark that you know that this...
Listen, I'm a foodie here, right?
When Jordan says he hasn't remembered,
because he's had 15 years of cakes since then, that's, that's how you know they were mid.
Because, like, I can still remember the best pizza I've ever had in my life.
No, it's completely true.
I can still remember the best cannoli I've ever had.
Right, and I was thinking, like, at the same time, there was this hip cookie place that had opened up called City Bakery. These things were like wide and flat and goopy.
And the chocolate was somehow melted into like super thin layers throughout the cookie.
And I can taste that thing right now.
You gotta stop or you're gonna make me go order some desserts or something.
But the secret hip bakery alpha, like Carney and everyone else was saying,
if they have a breakfast sandwich, it's probably going to be better than any of the pastries
That's correct 99% of the time I completely agree
I'm not a big dessert guy. They're only doing it if they're serious about it, right?
Like if they're doing a breakfast sandwich at a bakery they mean business
No, you're spot on and especially like, you know, you're getting the croissant is like top tier there you can't get a better croissant genuinely like that's too good um welcome to the
stage we got andrew saunders what's happening man we're talking uh we're talking pastries we're
talking desserts we're talking bagels what do you have for breakfast uh oh what oh i had a
homemade cinnamon bun my wife bakes a lot
so i'm a i'm a lucky guy marry marry a woman that bakes no i mean you'll get you'll get fat
he is 100 right holy shit like it is genuinely the greatest thing ever you just like you're in
your office and you just smell something and you're like oh she's she's cooking something
dude i have the worst dad bod which
i'm currently focused on but like yes she will make like belgian waffles on like a tuesday i'm
like fuck yeah i'm winning at life god damn see i'm i'm the cook in my in my household so this is
my wife when it comes to cinnamon rolls is the loudy loudio technology sophisticated enough to
hear these audio uh conversations and then register points for us?
We're actually farming live on the space.
We just got to say loudio every 30 seconds.
So stay tuned.
Did you say loudio?
I've been wanting to like comment on people's, but I have not tweeted the word loudio yet.
And at this point, I'm not going to.
Andrew, very important loudio question in regards to the cinnamon rolls and the baking.
Has your wife slash significant other Laudio gotten on the sourdough train with the sourdough starter Laudio?
Okay, so we haven't done the sourdough Laudio yet.
But I know she's been looking at fermentation things and stuff like that.
Laudio.
Actually, she's getting pretty good at Mexican food, which I'm surprised. She's like been looking at like fermentation things and stuff like that. Laudio. She's getting into,
actually she's getting pretty good at like Mexican food,
which I'm surprised she's from Maine.
Like she,
you would not think it,
but she's getting pretty good at that.
So I'm excited about that.
Laudio.
But yeah.
Laudio.
Laudio.
I highly recommend.
Do a,
do a side-by-side taste test.
Regular cinnamon rolls,
sourdough cinnamon rolls it may or may
not change your life laudio oh laudio i'd like that sourdio it sounds amazing to me
yeah can we connect guys laudio laudio
let's connect by the way i gotta follow laudio laudio follow i gotta say something funny i'm
not gonna throw shade laudio. But I've had two calls.
So background, like I worked in big tech AI for years.
I was like on the Alexa team.
But I talked to a couple.
Actually, one thing that's exciting to me, I've been talking to a lot of founders in
the past couple of weeks.
There's a lot of new founders coming in.
And these guys are not like first time founders.
These are guys that have built like very, very successful, you know, businesses already
that have sold or like M&A deals gone
public. And a lot of them are now coming into crypto. My guess is because they're just feeling
more comfortable with like the new administration. But it's been interesting because two of the
projects I talked to this week were AI projects. I can 100% verify this is like legitimate AI
technology, not skin vaporware. And I always ask these guys, because I'm curious, like,
have you seen anything in crypto from an AI perspective that you think is like interesting or real and they're still all on the no on the
no train like there's a couple there were two that I had been looking at obviously for a while which
were Eliza because I know one of the developers there who does seem quite legit and virtuals just
because like it seems to be one of the bigger projects but yeah they weren't they weren't
super excited about either of those,
which I was kind of surprised by.
So anyways, just a little info.
If you ever have a follow-up question for that,
that you can ask,
what I would want to know their thoughts on
is like, no, there isn't a crypto project
that's actually innovating on the AI side.
It's not really the focus of it, right?
They're using existing AI
and they're doing stuff with it. But they are innovating on the automated financialized
incentive structures around AI in a way that AI companies aren't doing. And so I would be
interested to know if they see the value in that, or if they think we're all just trying to justify
use cases. I think they think we're trying to justify use cases, but like the things that are kind of coming up
in most conversations are data, like big data in general,
training, like training the models in ways that maybe
like licensed data deals with big tech aren't.
And then the other thing that's coming up quite a bit
is actually around this notion of like privacy
and personalization, meaning like if you train the agent you know for yourself you know
you can license it to others rev share that type of thing so there's a lot of interesting
conversations around like data privacy um uh monetization and licensing things like that but
things like that but uh yeah that's been that's been pretty much it
uh yeah that's been that's been pretty much it
loudio call me mid-tweet oh sorry loudio loudio call me mid-tweet loudio um no i had a friend
that also worked at eliza who felt very similarly to your developer buddy so that was uh definitely
i don't know. I also thought,
by the way,
I also thought
virtuals was an
absolute rug
based on what I was
hearing like two
months ago.
And then it
proceeds to be the
biggest topic on CT.
So I guess my
judgment is completely
off.
No, no, no.
In your defense,
it was an absolute
rug two months ago.
They got rid of
everyone.
And then they come
up with this points
thing and then bam,
it's Laudio.
It is Laudio. What are you going to add though, Jordan? Laudio. rid of everyone and then they come up with this points thing and then bam it's loudio it is loudio
we're gonna add though jordan loudio oh i mean no we don't need to talk about virtuals anymore
i've been beating this dead horse but it's interesting like they had some some things
coming out that were tech like this agent commerce protocol that they posted about and i was chatting
with somebody from the team about it gdc it sounded very interesting they had a few things that were tech like this agent commerce protocol that they posted about and I was chatting with
somebody from the team about it GDC it sounded very interesting they had a few things and then
it's like a couple months went by and they were like uh no new tech but here's the brilliant point
system uh instead I hey listen you gotta you gotta respect game you know people just want to at the
end of the day crypto is all about social farming and points campaigns and that's really what what makes the ballroom so i hate you so much
by the way he's right though like it's look i and i i have a new way of talking about it that
makes it sound more legitimate but it is i do mean it i think that the biggest value that like our
ecosystem is putting out to the world is in incentive structures.
It's like everything I've been thinking about recently. And if you say it like this,
it sounds less bullshit than, you know, like points and airdrop grinding and stuff. But it is
like no industry on the planet has anywhere near the pace of innovation in social incentivization
as crypto does. And I think it's absolutely going to be something
that our industry exports out to the wider tech world.
Yeah, 100%, Jordan.
Jordan, real quick, I need a CTO.
I'm launching Physicals,
which is going to be a skin version of Virtuals.
And instead of Points, they're going to be called Coins.
Dude, that is such a good idea.
Innovation.
Yes, yes. And if you give people those those coins
for talking about it on twitter uh but the funny part is the funny part is that tge you're not
gonna actually get coins you're gonna get points for the coins right right right no and also you
don't actually need to build any of it you can just pay 150 000 us dollars to kaido and use their
uh ranking system instead so they continue to be the important ones.
And then you need to give your token supply, of course.
Oh, wait. Sorry, guys. Laudio.
I gave my whole token supply to CZ and they didn't even list me.
GG. Ali, let's connect. Laudio, what's going on?
Laudio, what's up? What's up? What's up? What's going on?
Did you guys see Bracer AI? They raised like million dollars bro from kind base ventures like nobody even like
spoke about it but probably you know i was reading the paper it's like they want to make an ai agent
twin so that you know they could like talk to each other do financial transactions and xyz because
we were very focused on talking about virtuals and again
Laudio so you guys might have not seen the phrase AI also get like this investment probably and the
whole reason virtuals again pumped back up right so one of the meta that started on Solana is like
this past enough thing you know internet capital markets where he was curating this uh you know
projects from either backed by YC Combinator or it's in the list of YC Combinator projects.
So base wanted to do something which is very closer and they had to follow the momentum,
right?
So obviously, virtuals was one of the best thing, you know, that got the push as well.
And a lot of market makers are involved as well.
There's a lot of volumes coming in on virtuals and that's one of their success point.
Laudio, guys.
Laudio, no, I appreciate the insight loudio um i i definitely was interested to see virtuals make the comeback
i wrote i wrote it off i was early to the virtuals ecosystem and yeah it seems like from what i'm
learning market making i mean this was well known but market making is a pretty big tactic throughout the industry.
Whether it comes to NFTs, tokens, it seems to be how tokens end up pumping.
Laudio.
I saw a couple of hands housed.
Laudio.
Yeah, so I really like what Jordan's talking about and his kind of thesis with the main thing that big tech can pick up with is the incentive structure, aligned incentives.
And I think something that, you know, my theory with Laudio or just a lot of the similar social farming campaigns is it's a really good experimentation ground and eventual case study for companies that want to dip their
toes into good and bad incentives to look at the after effect, right? Like if you look at,
you know, Taito or Cookie, the mindshare that Laudio has taken in the past day since it's
launched is up to like 70% by however they generate that metric, I'm not sure. But it's like,
does that turn into a positive or negative thing in the long term?
And what are the ramifications and consequences, right? Because to Jordan's point, if people are
really trying to figure out what are these good aligned incentives, you have to look and wait and
see until the end, right? Portal ended up kind of losing hype. I feel like people have kind of
forgotten about it. But you look at
something like Uniswap and ENS, and whenever someone announces an airdrop, people are begging
for it to be something like that. And it's like, well, they had good incentives, and it was also
retroactive, and no one knew it was coming. So everyone looked at it like a gift. But I feel
like that's going to be the biggest takeaway is isn't what Laudio does while people are farming
it. Personally, I think
it's annoying as hell. But at the same time, I'm like, hey, if there's free money on the table,
it's not something that I'm personally going to chase because I don't want to tweet Laudio all
day. But at the same Laudio time, right, other people want to go and chase that money. There's
money to be chased, right? I'm not going to be mad or angry if someone wants
to use their X account for three days, five days, whatever it is to go farm money. So I think that's
what's at hand, right? Is people are experimenting with different incentive models and trying to
figure out, is this something where we can just keep people's minds on Laudio based off of X
amount of dollars? Or is something in the long run going to be more sustainable,
like just a retroactive airdrop that people appreciate
because they got something after the fact for using a platform?
I mean, I think for this specific example,
obviously, I mean, you nailed it on the head.
Basically what we've seen,
we've seen this social farm thing pop up once a year, maybe multiple times a year.
Obviously, we're seeing it like kind of spawn all over the place with, you know,
integration of AI makes it a lot more seamless. So what I want everyone to do is, you know,
you're all in the audience. and this is just being very straightforward.
Again, none of this is financial advice, yada, yada.
Consult a financial advisor, Laudio.
Look at the portal chart.
Look at the block chart.
Look at PacMoon.
PacMoon was pretty cool and a fun experience, but everyone knew it was going to eventually tank.
Look at all these charts.
See what happens.
Just recognize what you're getting into i would be very curious i'm very curious to see the tokenomics for
loudio again i i gotta check they they're released like an abstract but i don't think they kind of
dove into the specifics isn't the isn't the whole thing you have to like keep talking about it for
months loudio yeah loudio audio oh wait you have to talk about it for months? Well, no. I think it's just the first year.
I think that there's some ongoing thing.
If there isn't, it's going to be straight to zero.
So it's like the US dollar.
Emissions don't stop.
It forever keeps going on.
You keep seeing the top 25 creators keep getting the allocation.
But it says it very clearly on the site that it's going to,
emissions never stop every single week,
that they're going to give away a certain number of prizes.
What I'm interested to see here is like,
I don't think that there's many lessons.
I mean, there's lessons, but I don't think that,
Laudio has 70 plus percent mind share,
so says Pido on crypto Twitter right now.
We can't have five of these at once.
Only one thing can have 70 percent mind share at a time.
And it's a zero sum game of whatever these Kaido designated smart yappers are tweeting about at any one moment.
are tweeting about at any one moment.
And so it's not like we can see an explosion
of this style of thing following this
without it all kind of cannibalizing itself.
Because again, there's just this like finite group of people.
But so I'm interested to see
how this kind of like percolates out after this.
Myself as well.
And it looks like Ali, you just pinned it up.
I'll throw it to you.
It looks like the snapshot was just taken
You know the snapshots taken so but now there would be still people trying to farm stuff, right?
Because it's a fly
But yeah
This happened as well when the crypto volumes overall board is down and we did not making the last time this happened was in 2023 we got friends
tech emerging and the entire city was just mad at it and then the entire social fight narrative
picked up so probably this might be a start of a new narrative and you know because of social
fine narrative we got kite to air drops and stuff like that so this might translate into some bigger
money in the future when new products emerge and things like that. So pretty interesting, honestly, this experiment is.
No, definitely.
Again, a fast, I mean, I'm going to be honest.
I don't think we've seen a takeover, a timeline takeover like this one.
Yes, we saw it with Portal to a degree.
Laudio.
But we have not seen it like this before.
Laudio.
Andrew, throw it to you.
Yeah, I want to go back
to something that house was talking about i want to just kind of double down on it um i think here's
the problem in crypto like and i talked to i talked to vcs about this i've had the funds about
this i've had founders about this there's just like a huge actual marketing talent deficit like
of folks that actually come from marketing and are trained in marketing and i think like if you if
you go back to kind of traditional marketing, you know, you have typically media side and creative side, but in media, I mean,
really what you're doing is, is this notion of like peaks and valleys, right? It's like,
you know, if you're doing, um, I'll give you an example. Like when I was launching feature films,
we would do kind of lead up campaigns, you know, two weeks before the release,
then you do like a blitz campaign, you know, going into opening weekend. Then if, you know,
the rotten tomato scores were good, you do like follow follow up campaigns, but there's a whole kind of like,
like a playbook for it. Right. I think the problem in crypto that I've seen over and over,
and then someone else just brought this up with like, there can only be so much mindshare,
which I agree with is folks don't seem to understand how to build like sustained media
plans. You see a lot of these like hype launches even like
agencies named hype right which all makes sense in crypto but but the
challenges and you see this actually quite a bit like post CG for projects
there really aren't like these sustained kind of plans that one of the only
projects that I've seen that's done this well is is Pendle and I think like the
way pendles done it and you'll see like you know peaks and valleys like there's periods where there's a lot of chatter around Pendle, there's periods where
there's not a lot of chatter, but they're constantly creating peaks and valleys. And I
think where it's coming from is what they're really good at is they're really good at like
identifying like, what's the next narrative, right? So they saw, you know, Eigen is building
mindshare, let's build this system around Eigen layer, then they were like, okay, the narrative's
going to be Bitcoin for the next, you know next four months. Let's build something around Bitcoin. And so I think for them,
they're really good at basically taking advantage of what the current focus is. I'm surprised I
haven't seen them doing more in the AI stuff lately. And I think that's how they're able to
create those peaks instead of being stuck in a valley all the time. But what I see with most
projects is they basically blow their load on this giant peak, kind of like what
we're seeing today. And then they live in a valley for three years, you know?
Yeah. I mean, you know, I think everyone kind of knows that the KOL campaign to TGE
is what you're highlighting there. And it's like this, like, you're going to be the most talked
about product on the market for this, you know, a couple month period. And then you're just getting
kind of railed. It's not sustainable. Yeah. It's not, it's not. And I think the key piece to that
is like creating, you know, content pipelines internally, also having, like you mentioned,
you're talking about, you know, this blitz campaign, you can't just have a blitz campaign and then nothing else happening. You know, you got to have lead up, you got to have
consistent, you know, sustainable content that can go out and making sure that you're kind of
spreading apart that marketing budget. And you're not just going all out on that one moment, which
is why CT is how CT is now, you know, like even like one even one thing, like Falcor and I talk about this all the time,
was the launch of Off the Grid.
Listen, they did a great job owning the timeline.
I mean, they brought in traditional gaming influencers,
all of that.
But what actually probably would have been better
for them long-term,
because again, they want to build a loyal player base.
They want to build revenue streams,
would have been more of a trickle approach
where they're just creating small peaks over and over and over again,
and slowly onboarding real gamers into that game. And yeah, maybe they're not owning the
mindshare, but at least they're building an actual player base that can be monetized over time,
you know? Can I jump in and kind of devil advocate,
Laudio advocate Andrew's point here? So completely true when it comes to a game
or when it comes to a piece of content media, right? Like you want to build up sustained
activity over time. But I don't know that that is actually the same incentive for something like
Laudio or for something like everyone knows the virtuals Genesis points eco right now is a Ponzi and the bubble is going to pop
at some point right but we're talking about a token here the amount of money I assume
Laudio is capturing fees on this I saw like there's a 10% sell tax like the amount of
money they're going to make on that first day trading fees is astronomical right the
amount of money that virtuals has sucked up in trading fees over,
you know, the last month and a half and however long this sustains is astronomical. And
there's an argument to be made that attempting to create a long-term sustainable incentive
structure around token rewards has so far proven to be pretty freaking difficult and,
and oftentimes impossible. And I don't know that it's like fundamentally illogical or wrong of them
to therefore focus on something that, you know, will work for a short period of time,
you know, slurp up all those fees, make your money on a much more sure thing. And then you get
another, you know, you get then you get another hit at the
ball whenever you're ready to go again, and you've got plenty of money to try.
Yeah, I don't disagree with you. I mean, it kind of goes back to what I've seen, which is just
the majority of founders that I've encountered are not building for long term, they're building
for short term. And I think, again, if you're building for short term, or to your point,
if you're not trying to build a, let's call it like traditional business long think, again, if you're building for short term or to your point, if you're not if you're not trying to build a, you know, let's call it like traditional business long term.
No, you don't need to do that. But well, it's it's like it's a different model potentially,
because I'm like with you, like I'm trying to build long term traditional businesses that
sustain and grow myself. But like virtuals having a three month flash in the pan and then collapsing. And then now, let's say, having another three month flash flash in the pan and then collapsing, and then now
let's say having another three-month flash in the plan, let's say, and then collapsing,
isn't not a long-term business model if the team can continue to innovate and hit those?
You know what I mean?
Like making a bunch of money for a few months and then not making any money for six months
and then making a bunch of money.
You can string together short-term plans into a long-term sustainable business. few months and then not making any money for six months and then making a bunch of like you you can
string together short-term plans into a long-term sustainable business it's just like different you
know i think that i think the challenge becomes do you want to attract net new users or do you
want to swap the liquidity around right like if you're trying to basically you know take advantage
of like the natives and the dgens that are here are here. Sure. Like, I think that model works. But I'll tell you, like when I talk to, you know, crypto curious friends
who have gone now, OK, I'm beyond Bitcoin and Ethereum. I'm looking at some new things.
That stuff scares them. Right. Because there's already so much volatility even on, you know,
some of the high caps for them compared to what they're used to in the stock market.
And then all of a sudden, if they see a project that just continuously launches things that,
you know, pump and die, pump and die, I just worry like we won't
be able to retain them as crypto users in a sense. That's the whole I saw. This is not verifiable
because I do not remember where I saw it or what they cited. But I saw something in the last few
days saying that like 80 percent of new crypto users are out within six months, within a few months right now. And I think like the issue
with the cycle currently has been what kind of almost feels like giving up, but at minimum,
a general like, like acknowledgement that all we're doing is building stuff for the same group
of people at the moment. And so it's become purely about extraction, about sucking your
bits of fees out of those same groups of people. I don't think that's sustainable for the space,
and we need to build stuff again to attract new people
and not burn them when they get here.
But it's not what's been going on.
You should listen to a Safari Club meeting.
That's all I'll say.
That's the same topic that keeps coming up over and over and over again.
And there are teams that are trying,
but the reality is it's incredibly difficult.
Uh, yeah.
And I, I love the, you know, shout out to Safari club. Cause I think everybody that's in that is, it's really good.
It's a really cool like marketing group for people who don't know what Safari club is.
Um, but like, is that a, is that a marketing problem or is that a product problem?
Right.
And, and like like and i always sometimes
i hate bringing these things up because like i've spent many years in gaming and the two people that
hate each other the most are product people and marketing teams but like you know i think portal
you could say and loudio up to this point is like phenomenal marketing, right?
But Portal and Block and all those things,
they didn't have the product to back it up, right?
And so I always just have this conflict of like,
does crypto have a marketing problem or does it have a product problem?
And I would say, yeah, right?
And I would say a lot of these marketing teams are actually like,
I do agree with Andrew. I think a lot of these marketing teams are actually like, I do agree with Andrew.
I think a lot of the marketing teams here are actually horrific and it's really painful as a marketing guy.
But I think there's flashes of marketing brilliance and Laudio is doing it right now. I think, you know, Portal did it, but then Portal had nothing to show for it afterwards.
Right. And so it's more of a product
issue in my eyes than uh in anything else yeah kyle you wanted to hop in yeah so all right for
me i i don't consider it marketing brilliance i consider it marketing laziness i I mean, it's as simple as pay people to say stupid shit on the timeline.
I'll be real. It's demoralizing to see people like ICOBs top on this train because I had his
notice on like the last year and I shut him off because the Laudio project, I just can't get
behind, man. I think it's stupid. I think the same 25 people who get
paid for everything are going to dump on everyone's head. They have a 4% tax that they cooked in.
They're not saying on their marketing page, the 4% tax means that they're planning on
the retail investors paying for those KOL, basically paying for the KOLs to dump on
everybody's head at some point. Um, there's no
supply or there's no demand for this product at all. After the, after launch, there's no long-term
plan here. Um, I just think it's stupid, man. I'll be real with you. I think this is, this is
like peak bottom of marketing for crypto Twitter. It's there, there's's there's just no point to it there's like i see
the the that kaido has long-term use because they have captured like a real use case for the
um yapping on the timeline whereas i don't understand what laudio will do after day one i think that token will go up
and token will go straight down once all the top 25 dump and then we'll never hear him speak about
it again just like the last seven social farming projects that they've all talked about um i mean
it's to me it's just the same kols from 2021 2021 that are coasting on the cloud that they built back then that haven't done anything useful in this space in five years.
Besides tweet on the timeline, they're not builders.
And because of their influence, they're able to get all the small accounts to do the volume tweeting for them, which gives them the market size that they wanna reach.
So it's really these small accounts
who are giving them all the leverage here.
And then those small accounts
are gonna get the least of the pie.
So to me, this is just another bullshit marketing ploy.
It's lazy, it is stupid. and i don't know man it's just i i'm really
disappointed to see that this is where we're going it's just getting lazier and lazier and lazier and
to jerry's point when he said is it a product problem or marketing problem you're seeing it
in action there is no fucking product so so can i just like ask about a specific word
you just said because you're critiquing it for being lazy when i think in marketing laziness is
is brilliance is the absolute goal laziness by definition means loudio is doing very very little
for how much they're getting right like loududio is effort has effortlessly gotten everybody
to market for them by building a simple incentive structure being connected to the right projects
and people and getting the right initial mind share like isn't laziness what marketing is like
optimizing for wouldn't you rather do less work and get more
um i i see your point i just i don't know i don't see it pushing our space forward
i don't see it benefiting uh anybody in the space long term and sure i mean you're right
in the point of saying that that by definition that's what they want right but is it what we
want as a collective in this space
i mean i don't i don't know who said it but someone had just said you know the average
person leaves six months after well this shit is why this is why because they get in i completely
try to take part you know and then they get dumped on loudia like do you do you guys honestly think
any of those kols are gonna hold their bags longer than a day?
What if they say they're not...
But hold on, hold on.
I think the counterpoint, and again, I don't disagree with almost everything you said.
The counterpoint is everyone knows what's going to happen.
And people are saying it.
You mentioned ICOB specifically.
He has said that it's going to zero.
He's very publicly said that this is going to zero like he's he's very
publicly said that this is a very stupid experiment it is an experiment it is you know a degen
social game quote unquote does that make it morally acceptable he also mentioned uh i don't
remember it was him specifically or someone else i don't think it's morally or i don't think it's
moral or immoral it just like is like it's
just there it's happening we need it though we need experimentation in this space right now right
and like good bad or indifferent like we we all you know andrew kind of made a reference to
something earlier but we have like no blueprints in the space of how to launch anything, right? So I think experimentation is fine because
it will give people, you know, better understandings as like we become more legitimate and more
mature, you know, you start to pick the good and bad from some of these marketing campaigns,
you know? So I don't, I just don't, I understand people being annoyed by, like, how often they're seeing the term and how often they're seeing chatter about it.
But, you know, I don't think you can call this, like, bad or anything like that.
Because, I mean, it's 70% mindshare.
There's nothing to scoff at.
You know, that's huge.
That's really successful.
So, yeah, I don't know.
People get paid all the time. Every market in the world
is influenced, right? Go look on LinkedIn jobs right now. Influencer leads are a very in-demand
job right now because that's one of the best ways to do marketing. You hit your exact target
audience, right? So, you know, I don't know. Like, I don't see any way that this is, you know i don't know like i i don't i don't see any way that this is you know a net
negative you know uh and just they've done their job and they've got a lot of a lot of attention
i want to i want to throw it to andrew and then josh but i also i i do agree in the sense that
we do need experimentation and blueprints.
I think this would be a really cool experiment if it was a really quality product. But I think I saw someone in the comments saying there is no product.
You are the product.
You are also correct there.
Andrew, throw it to you.
Yeah, Claudio.
I forget who brought it up.
Like the question was, you know, do we have a product problem or a marketing problem?
I would argue we have both.
I do think there's more of a marketing problem than a product problem in crypto.
I don't want to name names, but like, let me put it this way. There are some really,
really good projects and really good tech that are effectively not marketing and they haven't
really been marketing for a number of years. And I think what it boils down to is there is a huge talent deficit, right? So
when I joined crypto three years ago, there were not a lot of us that had like real marketing
backgrounds. And I think if you go into marketing, and I built eight agencies at this point, like
eight marketing teams and orgs, you know, most marketers will come from either, you know, agency
side, creative agency, media agency, digital agency, they'll, you know, come from client side, creative agency, media agency, digital agency. They'll come from client side or a lot of
agency folks work their way in the client side or the work media side. I worked for a platform and
was architecting things there. What I find in this industry is a lot of folks where they really
haven't done any marketing before crypto and they think because they're crypto native and because
they live on the timeline and because they because they understand memes they're quote-unquote marketers and they're not like
like they're you know maybe they're content creators or they're interns yeah they're interns
right and so what what happens is and i've seen this and i'll give you kind of like a couple of
the reasons this is all happening like what happens is you have a lot of founders the majority of them
where they are either academics meaning i was a professor at a university.
What does that mean?
They've never been exposed to marketing.
They've never worked with a marketing team.
They've probably never worked in corporate America.
They don't understand P&L.
They don't understand budgets.
You know, all these things, right?
And then on the other side, what you have is a lot of what are called IC developers, independent contributor developers, where, you know, at Amazon, I worked with developers.
But these were, you know, cross Amazon, I worked with developers, but these were, you know, cross team high level developers. You know, we're talking about folks
that, you know, at Amazon would have sat there and coded for Alexa all day. So same thing, like,
they're not exposed to marketing, they've never worked with a marketing team. And so what ends
up happening, I've seen this is, there was, I would say, maybe about a year and a half ago,
a wave of like pretty good marketers coming into crypto from web two. And then what happened,
and I've seen this firsthand,
is they join these projects with expectations of, I'm going to build a marketing team. I'm going to
start to develop brand strategies. I'm going to start to develop campaigns. I'm going to start
thinking about my targeting and segmentation. And then they're basically up against these founders
that either don't want to make the hires that they agreed to, or don't want to fund the marketing
budget, or genuinely think everything's organic, which is total bullshit. And so most of these
guys that I know, they've all left, they've all gone back to web two, they're just like,
fuck it, I'm done. Right. And so that's the problem. And then what's happened in the past
year, which is really, you know, candidly upsetting to me, is there's been this huge
rise of what I call like marketing grifters. So I'm seeing like all these folks come in, you know, quote unquote,
like from web two that are now CMOs.
And I look at their background and it's like,
you weren't even on the marketing team of that company,
or you were only there for like five months.
Like I'm not going to name names,
but I saw a podcast the other day where it was like, quote unquote,
marketing experts. And I was like, well,
one of them never really did any effective marketing for their project. And then the other one has
literally no marketing experience, right? And these folks are running around and they're, you know,
they're basically burning bridges. And then the other thing that happens, and you see this in
Web 2.2 is these agencies, right? So you'll have an agency that's good, right? Because they've got,
you know, maybe five folks that actually have marketing backgrounds. So they do some good work
for some projects. And then they get greedy and they go, you know what,
now we're going to work for 50 projects and, but there's no one to basically, you know, hire. So
we're just going to hire these young kids and have them do it all for us, but they don't know
anything. And then the quality suffers and then all, or they'll jump and they'll start another
agency and you know, the, the, the five kind of senior people. And now that's the new hot agency.
And then they repeat the whole thing. And so what I hear from most founders is they're like, well, we went to an agency because we had to and then they sucked. And then we went to another agency and then they sucked. And then we went to another agency and they sucked. So then we tried to build our own in-house team and they sucked. And it's all related to the same thing, which is just like there's not enough real marketers coming into this industry. And I do think a big reason is that the ones that do get burned by founders and then they
tell all their friends, like, don't go into that industry, you know?
So it's definitely something that, like, needs to be solved.
I mean, I probably have a conversation about this at least once or twice a week with VCs
because they don't know how to solve it.
They're like, we don't know how to solve this issue.
I'm actually kind of working on something that might help with this, but like, it's
a real problem because there are some good products out there.
Yes, there's a lot of vaporware.
There's some good products, you know, for sure.
Yeah, absolutely.
Especially like where we were in 2021 and now where we are, where we have like, you
know, session logins, you know, I'm calling out abstract specifically there, but also,
you know, sequence, third web, all of these, you know, seamless logins, you know, I'm calling out abstract specifically there, but also, you know, sequence, third web, all these, you know, seamless experience, login experiences, you know,
it is, it is very possible to break out and for teams not to notice that, or, you know,
users to not notice that there is blockchain and integration.
And like Phantom, like, like Phantom and, you know, Phantom and Jupiter, they now have iOS apps.
You know, there's no reason they can't be marketing those to, you know, everyday normal people that are crypto curious using traditional Web2 strategies.
And those will probably become much stickier users long term for them, right?
Correct. And yeah, everyone downloads Phantom, like all my, you know, friends who are getting
into crypto, it is immediate Phantom. It's pretty fascinating. You know, the old way was like,
you got to set up the MetaMask on this Google extension, write down this and do that. You still need to write
it down, but you know, it's a lot more seamless and it's so easy to buy a token if you wanted
to or get involved in crypto with Phantom. It's really simple. Josh, I wanted to go to
you. I saw your hand nut come up. Welcome to the stage. Also, do you want to give a shout
out to Josh? We had a big announcement this past week.
Yeah.
What's happening, Josh?
Yeah, we just announced that I'm joining the team at Uprising.
So super cool.
Super excited to continue on with my mission in this space.
And the Uprising team is super solid there.
Carney here is great.
One of the most grindiest persons,
people I've ever met,
just from the past like month, really.
Like he is on top of it.
I don't know how he's candling it.
And especially with the, you know,
the startup culture,
not really being, you know,
as you're kind of getting organized
as you're starting with the company,
it's tough to do.
So he's crushing it.
I'm super proud to join the team.
The rest of the guys there are crushing it too.
But I wanted to touch on the topic here too.
You know, I generally overall, I'm going to have to side with Swine here of, you know,
Laudio, there is no product.
I went through all the documentation, went through the site, went through everything
that they've posted, had chat GPT, you know, analyze everything. There is no product.
There is no end goal. The end goal is right now, what is happening right now to get attention.
And it's an experiment for sure, but it's an experiment for who's the dumbass who holds
it at the end, right?
It's what NFTs and tokens,
what people have been hating about it forever.
You know, who's the dumbass who's going to be left holding the bag
when it goes to zero?
And that's kind of like,
that's kind of the experiment that it's doing.
How many times can we run this same experiment
until people are like, holy shit,
I'm not going to do it anymore.
But people keep doing it. So it doesn't really matter. So people are going holy shit i'm not gonna do it anymore but people keep doing it
so it doesn't really matter so people are gonna keep running it whoever's the guy ultra who's
running this is gonna make stupid bank off of it um and then everybody's gonna dump and the last
people holding it are just gonna be the dumbasses holding it but there needs to be more experiments
see how many times these dumbasses will actually hold the bag still zero
and it's gonna just keep happening right but uh i was talking with my friend uh from china
and he works for alibaba or alipay really and they're experimenting with uh the the tokenized
standards of of their pay and everything like that in china and one thing that he had noticed, he does risk management for PR for them.
So like if they should get it to crypto,
how they should do it, all that kind of stuff.
And he has said that the issue with crypto
is that it is so immature
and it's still, every time it gets to a point
where it starts maturing, it takes a step back.
Take OpenSea, Coin coinbase where they drop their their
tokens their their experience tokens and stuff like that it continuously immatures itself over
and over and over not to on the space that we love but there needs to be a stopping point where real
tools take precedent over these kind of dumb experiences, experiments, really.
I, if I can chime in, and thanks for having me up. But I mean, I do see Laudio and even Kato
as the Uber for KOLs. And I don't agree, or I don't believe, and I do agree that
it's a net negative for the space and what
it's meant for. It's a lot of Web 2 ideology being wrapped in Web 3 veneer. So I just,
anyway, I wouldn't throw that in there and we need to interrupt.
No, completely fair to drop your take in there. I appreciate that. I go back and forth on it. I'm
relatively indifferent. It is an experiment. I think what I I go back and forth on it. I'm relatively indifferent.
It is an experiment. I think what I'll say to you, Josh, is you're completely correct. That is
exactly what you're saying. And that's exactly the purpose. I think, yeah, you want to make
sure people aren't framing this as the next big thing or something like that. And maybe people
unintentionally receive that signal because they're seeing all the
ct mindshare i also think it's a really fascinating experiment at least as a marketer seeing excuse me
seeing the the i guess the data on if you have this mindshare what does that equate to
for an fdv of a token with absolutely no product. I think that's a very fascinating number to learn about.
And you can kind of use that.
It used to be like Discord members that are online.
If it was an organically grown Discord,
this was like an old strat I used in 2021.
And if you knew the amount of members you had
and the amount of collaborations you were doing,
you could actually estimate the amount of revenue
you were going to receive.
So this is a very similar experimentation
where if you look at it in terms of mindshare to market cap,
which again is not exactly related,
but in this instance, it kind of is.
So I am curious in that space,
at least for the data point of view,
what that ends up looking like.
I didn't see what was next.
I think House has had his hand up for a bit.
I'll throw it over to you, House.
Yeah, first off, Josh, congrats.
Very, very excited for you.
Big fan of uprising.
But no, I loved your take and agree with a lot of it.
Yeah, I think CUT really needs to snap themselves out of the Stockholm syndrome
of chasing every bag for every product that doesn't exist.
It almost feels like that meme of the dude digging the wall, walking away.
They get the dude below going for the diamonds.
But like behind that wall, there's no diamonds.
It's just like 25 cents and three tokens you don't actually want in your wallet that just get left there forever.
And everyone has an on-chain registry of how dumb you were for buying those tokens or farming that thing.
But I think it's both.
It's not like, is it a marketing or a product problem or lack there of either?
I think it's a mixture of both, right?
I think everyone's kind of gone over, hey, we have some serious product teams and some really cool stuff being built. It's no recognition because they either don't know how
to market or their lack of marketing has made it so they can't race around or they don't have the
network to get in front of people and get the money to establish a good content strategy and
marketing kit. And then you have the other side of it, which is projects and teams that get
funded because on paper, they've done something cool. But it turns out like Andrew said, hey,
he wasn't like the CMO of the marketing firm, or he wasn't the lead game designer. He was like the
intern or the janitor for the game design part of the office, but he worked at EA. And then that guy
gets a bunch of money and is able to market hey we're
big in the we're building the next big P to E game they raised 10 million dollars two years later
they're announcing they're shutting everything down because hey he didn't actually know how to
make a video game he knew how to mop the floor really well so I think it's it's a dual side
issue where like you can say either is wrong but it it's, or either is missing, but it really is case by case, right?
So it's, you have a quality product
that doesn't get marketed
or you have a shit product
that gets marketed so well
that everyone feels, you know,
really disconcerted
and like they were wronged and rugged,
but it's, you know,
hey, the marketer was doing his job.
It's the, you know, the team that did it,
but the marketer's just there
to get paid for doing his job. You know know he marketed and did the best to his ability
maybe he did it a little too strongly for how poor the product was or he or
she but yeah I think it's I think it's an equal weighted issue absolutely and I
saw I just wanted to comment on Terrace's comment here it's not an
experiment it's building a marketing agency
without hiring people to amplify your message. The speculation around this is insane, but it's
stupid, simple, and genius. So just to comment on this, Balsa had a pretty good thread today. I
recommend checking it out. But he wrote like community-owned systems are king. And that's
completely true. Like community-owned systems where essentially,
you know, for some of these speculative, you know, especially in this meme coin era,
the lack of like team allocation and limiting everything and that it's going to the community
is pretty much king. And it's how you capture Mindshare with no product. It's an interesting,
again, it's an interesting experiment on that element.
So yeah, thank you for the commentaries.
Andrew, Laudio.
Laudio, yeah.
Two things I want to call out.
So I forget who it was,
but someone was talking about Alibaba,
like a hundred percent, right?
So when I was at Amazon headquarters,
I was on a team that worked on like Bezos special projects.
Like I sent Alexa to space, right? And so things like crypto oftentimes would like, on headquarters i was on a team that worked on like bezos special projects like i sent alexa to
space right and so things like crypto oftentimes would like you know become topics of conversation
amongst those of us that worked on these projects right because we were the ones doing things that
were very outside the box right and there were definitely conversations about crypto because
you know and i'll go back to like where you know i was just the cmo scale like scale is a great
example where they can hide the blockchain technology. So if you want to bring, you know, the Amazon prime member program into crypto,
like you can do that in a way that there's no friction or barrier for like everyday,
you know, people, the problem becomes, and we've seen this in the gaming sector as well, like
up until Trump coming in, there was a lot of risk, right? Like if I launch a token or if I do
something in crypto, you know, hypothetically that could create risk for my traditional business and
my traditional revenue stream and my existing customer base. Right.
And so I think, again, like most of them have kind of, you know, waited for the industry to
mature. Or even if I go to like the celebrity side where I used to, you know, rep celebrities,
you know, they've seen the ones that have come in that have either been taken advantage of by,
you know, bad actors behind the scenes or the ones that are in on it. And they're like, again,
I don't want to ruin my fan base. I don't want to ruin my ticket sales, you know, bad actors behind the scenes or the ones that are in on it. And they're like, again, I don't want to ruin my fan base. I don't want to ruin my ticket sales, you know,
all these things. And so I think candidly, like if we're thinking about kind of mass adoption,
whether that's through, you know, enterprise businesses or let's just call it like media
and culture and entertainment, they are waiting for this industry to mature and grow up a little
bit. And I do agree that like the more we do things that just appeal to us as DGENs,
sure, it's fun. Sure, it's cool. But like, it is going to slow that adoption down. It is, you know? Um,
so yeah. Um, and the other thing I wanted to call out, like, I do think it's important to also look
at the difference between like a Kaido and a Laudio. So for anyone that's not a marketer,
like in marketing, there's a, there's a tool that a lot of brands use, a lot of agencies use called
Sprout Social. It's very expensive, right?'s very expensive right you know thousands and thousands of dollars a month um i think when kaito first came out i looked at it as oh you
know they're building a you know an alternative quote-unquote web 3 version of sprout social
you know the same way like an addressable is building a web 3 version of trade desk and i'm
like okay i get it like that's a valuable business that makes a lot of revenue you know i know what
the potential valuation of that is so for me like if i'm going to invest in Kaido, I'm kind of looking at it that way.
I think what's interesting though, is that they've taken obviously a little bit more of like a
consumer product facing approach. I don't know if it's, let's create a diversified revenue stream by,
you know, letting, letting us monetize users as well, or that's just like an attention strategy,
marketing strategy. But, but I do think like they could evolve into a Sprout Social. And candidly, if they can offer the same level of
tooling at 50% of the cost, I mean, both Web3 and Web2 marketers might be interested in using that
product and paying, you know, $5,000, $10,000 a month. So just calling it out. Yeah.
And that like fully circles back to what I was saying all the way at the start, which is like we're talking about how can Web3 make legitimate things that actually appeal and have real use cases to the wider tech industry so that we can legitimize ourselves.
And that like fully circles back to what I was saying all the way at the start,
social, but it also isn't, right? It kind of comes from a very different angle,
and it comes from a very fundamentally Web3 angle, and that there's just this inherent
native way that we've all learned to think about marketing with base organic incentivization
as the bottom of that kind of structure that I think is incredibly valuable and will give us an
edge against these kind of incumbents from the traditional space that at least we can use
to stand out and kind of solidify our footing.
I don't know.
This all reminds me of when MLMs hit Facebook.
And I hate how I go to Facebook.
And I just came from Amazon looking at toasters.
And I want to see what my family's up to.
And now I'm all of
a sudden thinking about the toaster again because it's every four cards is an advertisement but now
instead of advertisement we have people and you don't even know if they're being legitimate about
what their uh convictions are and I just I don't know I just I can't get outside of that if someone
can convince me that it's not that happening right now. Oh, we got a hand up.
There's Andrew, yeah.
What's up?
No, you're exactly correct.
That's the issue with the TikTok shop as well.
They push those store links forward.
And, yeah, that's kind of the UGC component
that really isn't very organic.
Yeah.
I got a drop.
Just want to say great space, everyone.
Laudio, Laudio.
I'll see you all next week.
I think I feel sorry.
See you, Jordan.
I just feel a little bit robbed of the niche interest
and the things, the products or services
that may be getting drowned out.
Let's say they don't have a marketing budget, but in a perfect world for me, I'd rather
be a part of an algorithm that really just curates the right product or service. I don't
care how big they are. If they're doing the job that I'm looking for, or giving the entertainment
or scratching the itch, dopamine hits, whatever.
I would rather participate in a system where it's a curation, but not, you know, enhanced by, you know, people talking about it where they're not necessarily all into it or not.
You know, I do like the idea of finding, you know, in marketing where they, you know, it's a lot to do with storytelling and you want people who really believe in your product.
So a lot of the legwork is finding those that do have a high interest in it.
You know, those influencers that actually use it and will rep it like that.
They actually say if you're authentic, you have four times the energy output.
If you're authentically being yourself, I don't know if many people know about that one.
It's cool.
But I think, you know, if
that is more the case, I would much so buy into it. But I think discovery is the real issue. Like,
there are no real good discovery mechanisms. And I want to participate in a Web3 that's more like
a Kickstarter with algorithmic discovery. And that way people are getting their shot in all
different forms of industries.
Like I talk about the candy bar and how the candy bar in the U.S. has had zero innovation over the course of I don't know how many decades.
And I'm so tired of Snickers and Butterfingers.
And I know for a fact we're getting robbed of better candies.
And I'm sitting here just settling for the ones with the best marketing budget.
sitting here just settling for the ones with the best marketing budget and it's just frustrating
And it's just frustrating.
no i mean every a lot of valid points in there uh russ no i think you're that's actually funny
you mentioned candy bars um did not really think of that one before andrew i'm gonna i'm gonna
throw it over to you russ i've worked with pretty much every major candy company in the world over
the past 20 years um what i will say is there is candy innovation.
They're just not targeting you well.
Like I would say probably like Tony's Chocoloni is probably one of the best examples of like, here's a company that innovated more from like a sourcing perspective and manufacturing perspective.
But that business is crushing it right now.
So like, yeah, there's interesting stuff going on.
But what I was going to say is I do think you get the nail on the head. There's a discoverability
issue. And I think like, again, where does this come from? I'll go back to again. Do we have a
product issue or marketing issue? This is the marketing issue side. Right. So what I find and
I found this actually like six, seven years ago when I was working with all the direct to consumer
brands like the Casper's of the world was there was a shift where they went from like brand marketing, which had been, you know, what
pretty much every brand has done for the past, you know, a hundred years to performance marketing,
which, you know, quote unquote is growth marketing, but it's, you know, dollar in HBA or, you know,
action out, you know, monetize it, um, you know, drive costs down, make it more efficient.
The problem is with performance marketing, like you're not driving awareness because it's so hyper-targeted. And so what I've seen in this
industry in the past three years is a lot of founders that really, and again, I think it's
because they don't understand marketing and they come from more of a technical background where
they only believe in this notion of performance marketing, right? They're like, we want to be
able to show direct action and ROI on the back of every dollar.
And the analogy that I always use that I love is, is a fishing analogy, right?
So, so, and this is why there's no discoverability.
So if you're a project, like a great project, right.
And you're like, we're just going to do performance marketing.
What you're effectively doing is you're like, I'm going to walk up to this pond that has
20 fish and I'm going to fish them out as fast and cheaply as possible.
Like, great.
You just did that.
Right.
But now what? Like you
have an empty pond, right? What brand marketing does is while you're there fishing those 20 fish
out as fast and cheaply as possible, brand marketing is continuously making the pond larger
and adding more fish to it so that you don't stop at 20. You just keep going. Right. And, um, and I
would say in general, every brand, even, even like the legacy brands, the Coca-Cola's of the world
should be doing a mix of both brand and performance marketing. I think where it changes is, you know,
in, in early stage startups, the percentage of brand marketing tends to be higher, you know,
than a later stage company where I would say the percentage of performance marketing tends to be
higher than brand. Um, but again, what I tend to see in this industry is a lot of just very
inexperienced founders that are going like 100% performance
marketing or, you know, organic Twitter.
And then nobody, nobody sees it.
And it's like, how do you expect to, you know, build positive perceptions?
How do you expect to drive intent?
How do you expect to convert these into users if they don't even know you exist?
And I would argue like this is probably one of the biggest issues in crypto right now.
And marketing, it's the cornerstone is reach and frequency right and everybody's very very focused on reach but
they're not focused on frequency and so even if they are driving awareness nobody's remembering
them you know so i think we need consumer reports for web 3 that's what i interpreted
we need real marketers to come into the industry that's and we need existing founders to not piss
them off and send them back to Web2, which
is what they're all doing.
That's fair.
No, that's fair.
Yeah, I've had a handful of takes on this one.
I agree.
I think we recognize the top quote unquote marketers are influencers in the space.
And a lot of them are, you know, a lot of these agencies, space, and a lot of them are a lot of these agencies, again,
and a lot of hustlers, which I respect,
and that is the case for many agencies,
not just in Web3,
but tends to taint the quality sometimes.
So, Andrew, great takes.
MVP of the show.
I appreciate you pulling up, man.
Ross, Josh, House, Maddox, Falcor, Jerry. the show. I appreciate you pulling up, man. Ross, Josh,
House, Maddox, Falcord, Jerry.
Yeah, what are you going to say, Andrew?
Laudio.
We're going to wrap up the show here. I appreciate you guys. We host this
every Friday, 12 p.m. Eastern.
We talk about gaming. We talk about other things.
I mean, this was a really hard one to not touch
on. We also announced
Night Spawn. I think we'll dive into it next week. Not a huge reason to do it this week, but we was a really hard one to not touch on. We also announced Night Spawn.
I think we'll dive into it next week.
Not a huge reason to do it this week.
But we launched a really fun Discord experience.
Almost 5,000 people joined up from that one Discord experience.
So a really cool organic campaign there with very little spend.
Just a lot of people enjoying a fun Discord gamification experience,
going through trials, riddles, solving the different puzzles that we had in there and that kind of hints towards the puzzle
co-op horror game that we are launching and we are publishing at uprising labs we will have a stream
next wednesday i don't have the time just yet uh but it's going to be with the somnia community so
keep an eye out for that. But until then,
we will see you next Friday, 12 p.m. Eastern. Appreciate y'all. Appreciate you guys hopping in.
Stay loudio.
