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LTO strategies, STR expectations, and macro with Andrei Polgar
Recorded: Sept. 5, 2025 Duration: 1:49:10Space Recording
Full Transcription
Andre, just to prove you, what's up everybody?
Back finally from a long hiatus.
I've been at Burning Man for probably 10 days or so.
Just got back to Puerto Rico two nights ago. Good to be back. I am exhausted, but having
been out there and just seen some amazing art and people and music, I am feeling recharged.
I'm ready to hit the ground running back in the domain game
what's up with you andre
yeah so hey uh glad to be back um i'm for now trying to make sure my wife doesn't kill me
because i'm about to buy another plot of land after buying two previous ones that I mentioned on the other show. So yeah, that's going to be something.
On the domain front, I'm at 1,500 or so names at Unstoppable right now, which is kind of cool.
And I want to expand that.
And I also do pay attention to macroeconomic conditions because I'm, I am an economist, A and B,
the current situation warrants, I think, special attention. And I think we should maybe cover it
in a show. So as to kind of give people something here when they listen to us that they don't find
anywhere else, I think that's going to enable us to provide a lot of value. But before going
too broad and worrying about macroeconomics, with your permission, I do want to address,
because I've mentioned me having 1500 domains at Unstoppable, all of them are .com, since that's
what I focus on. I think we should talk about portfolio size because i mean one of the most common questions
i get is how big should my portfolio be if i use your method you know people asking me and
the answer is that i don't know in their case what that number is i can tell you looking at
what that number is. I can tell you looking at domainmarket.com, which is Mike Mann's project,
that 200,000 domains is achievable. Or you can look at huge domains, which has an order of
magnitude more, and they're a bigger operation, even more than that. So I would say that it should be a function of your risk tolerance, right?
So personally, I'm nowhere near as risk tolerant as Mike Mann is, for example.
And so I'm going to keep my portfolio size a lot slimmer.
And to kind of help people figure this thing out,
I would try to introduce the concept of the decreasing marginal sell through rate,
right? So I'm a hard worker, you can I spend I don't know, let's say six hours a day going
through deleted domain lists, which is what I like doing. So to understand the concept,
it sounds like a mouthful, but it's simple, simple you know let's assume that i'm super super
picky and in one year i only pick up a hundred domains you know my sell-through rate will be
amazingly high but it would kind of be a stupid thing to do because six hours multiplied by 365
that's about you know 2 000 hours per month just to get a hundred domains so I'd basically
spent 20 hours per domain which would be kind of dumb because even at minimum wage rates in the
west I'd still be paying hundreds of dollars per domain so that's a stupid idea right now let's be
a bit more realistic and and take it 1 000 domains time and say that, look, if I get 1000 domains in one year, I can expect a sell-through rate of, say, 2%, which people are going to say, oh, that's kind of low.
But it's not low when you get inventory this cheap. 2% is superb when you get inventory this cheap, but it is too low if you pay hundreds of dollars per domain.
So it all depends also on your acquisition price.
Because, you know, people see on X people bragging about high sell-through rates,
but, you know, A, many people are lying.
B, many of them have acquired domains not at direct cheap rates, but at, I don't know, three figures.
And so for these reasons, it's a bit misleading.
But anyway, you have a thousand domains, you have a 2% sell-through rate, maybe you net $1,500 per domain, which means that you're
at 30K per year for that portfolio. You have renewals at 11,000. So you're super comfortable
with 19,000 left for taxes and whatever else you have set up.
Great.
But you want more, obviously.
So you add another 1,000 domains, but the sell-through rate will be diminishing for each 1,000 domains you add with a given method in most cases.
So with my second set of 1,000 domains, I'm going to maybe have 1.75% sell through rate. With
my third, I'm going to have 1.5% and lo and behold, you know, 3000 domains in, I'm going to have an
average sell through rate of 1.75%, which is just super comfortable still. Now, where would you stop?
Depends on how risk tolerant you are.
I would definitely want my sell-through rate for these specific conditions that I've outlined
to be over 1% because, you know, you'd be at 10 sales per thousand domains there,
15,000 per year from which you subtract 11,000 renewals,
and you're still left with a comfortable something
on that domain group, not to mention that your overall sell-through rate will be higher because
1% will be the sell-through rate on your least performing part of the portfolio. So that's how
I choose to see things, one dimension. And the other dimension for me is, as I've mentioned in previous shows, that I sell by the thousands to resellers.
And I do this, A, because I can keep a little something as profit and replenish my inventory.
So I'm happy and the buyer is happy.
B, I establish a network of people who buy from me.
So whenever I have to liquidate, either because the market is problematic or because I
have something personal going on, like buying land or whatever, I have people to sell to.
And it's a nice thing for diversification purposes. And so I like to be very lean and
nimble and keep my number of domains under 10,000. So once I get get close i sell a bunch of inventory then i acquire more
and it enables me i get i'm convinced that i could make more money by being more risk um tolerant
but for me i'm kind of already have some income producing real estate i live here on this farm
on a hill somewhere in eastern here i don't really feel the need to add stress to my life just so I can make a bit more money.
And, you know, your mileage may vary.
But all in all, I think, I hope at least that in terms of portfolio sizing, what I've said makes sense to people.
Yeah.
And of course, like, I'm sure we can boil all this down to like a nice little equation.
You know, you have size of your portfolio times the sell-through rate times the time spent per domain.
And then you can sort of, you know, throw some constants in there and then your budget, of course.
And then basically reverse engineer any one of those variables if you understand the rest of your constraints.
So I think that's a useful exercise for people to do,
is to really think critically before they just go hand-wrecking into oblivion
and not really thinking from first principles about how they want to attack this. I think it's also useful, Andre, if you could map out the space of strategies out there.
Because I think your strategy is quite rare
in the grand scheme of things.
You do high volume,
you're largely selling to other domainers
in the wholesale market.
And so you're quite upstream
and you're not really dealing with end users
and your hold times are very short.
Like that and your portfolio is of course quite large
which is why you have this fixation on portfolio size.
And then for a lot of other people
the strategy is much more opportunistic let's say.
They scour auctions and then they're,
you know, acquiring them here and there. They're not really going for volume so aggressively. So
I'm curious if you could like, I don't know, map out the like pie chart of different strategies
that various domainers use, uh, and how common they are. Um, and then I think that would help inform, you know,
to whom this portfolio sizing is most relevant to.
Of course it's relevant to everyone, but good to like, you know, narrow in on the target audience here.
You know, in the spirit of starting from first principles,
I think it's smart to think about it
in terms of what resources do you have. And I would say one important resource is the amount
of money I have, obviously. So someone who just inherited $10 million will have a completely
different strategy compared to someone who lives in a super low income third world country.
Obviously, I live in a second world country, moving on first world, let's say.
Okay, so the first variable is how much money you have.
The second variable is how much time you have at your disposal
and whether or not you like what you're doing.
Personally, I'm willing to invest time in something like domains
because it helps me kind of
see the internet under the hood and I enjoy doing it. And so I'm willing to invest more time in it.
If I hated it, I wouldn't be investing time in it. So money, time, but also health, I would say,
you know. So personally, I like my strategy, even if it involves hard work, because I'm willing to trade in time by working hard in exchange for health, for reducing stress, if that makes sense.
Because obviously there are ways to make money in domaining that are far less work intensive than what I do.
But everything on this planet is a trade-off
ultimately.
So you're willing to kind of risk taking on a higher level of stress, but you will be
saving a lot of time.
Personally, I'm not willing to do that, but each listener I think would be well served
to at least have these
three resources in mind, I would say. How much money you have, how much time you have, and how
much you value your health. And based on that, you can make decisions with respect to what you want
to do in this business. I personally, over the years, have learned not to be judgmental. You know, like,
if you ask me, would you buy .ai domains, would I buy them at these prices, even with the end user
adoption, even with all of them? It's not for me. But at the same time, I personally know people
who have done very, very well with these types of domains.
So more power to them.
The same way, you have people like Luke, many of you probably,
or some of you might know him,
who do very well with country-specific domains.
That's his industry.
And that's, I guess, the beauty of it.
You have so many models to choose from.
And why I spend my time in the domain industry,
rather than doing a bunch of other stuff, is because despite the fact that it has been around
for many years, it was never as hot as crypto or anything like that. So it's still a space with a
lot of inefficiencies. I think that's why Unstoppable will do very well,
because there are so many inefficiencies that you can correct and then build market share by doing
that. It's such an inefficient market still that it's super easy to kind of find your corner there.
You know, what I do is super well tailored for my personality, for my kind of way
of seeing things. Other people do very well bidding like crazy on expired domain auctions that leave
others scratching their head. But who cares if others are scratching their heads at the high
prices they end up paying for these auctions if at the end of the day they make money by doing
whatever it is they're doing so i don't think being right or anything is or being judgmental
makes any sense in this industry because you know there's more way to skin a cat so to speak
exactly what's up jack welcome up hi what's up everyone what were you doing doing well i don't think
we've ever uh spoken so it's good to finally connect and i see you all all the time on
domain or twitter so it's good to finally chat absolutely thank you so i i would like to and
thank you to andre that was speaking right now i would like to to join the conversation and ask him if he can give any advice or explanation regarding to the how to escalate the main portfolio. many podcasts i read some ebooks over there i read blogs name pros whatever information is there i i
i take it and until now i never stoop up with someone speaking about how to escalate a domain
portfolio correctly because from from my side and i think this is i am speaking maybe
Because from my side, and I think this is, I am speaking maybe to everyone, we just jump to the pool and just start to register names.
And when we get the sale, we reinvest the money, but we have no clue how to do it correctly, how to do it in a systematic way in a term of how many percentage should i reinvest how much
should i put on the side from my experience i just start to register in domains without even having
too much clue about it just following my logic and my own taste and my gut feeling and when i got my first sale that was uh about two months was a hand
registration name was for a crypto it was a crypto domain with the keyword the beat at the end and
was a short domain and i sold it for two thousand dollars from an after nick and that was for me
the beginning so i just put back all the $2,000 in registering more domains.
And then I grow and grow and grow.
And then I came to the point where, you know, the renewal has begun to come.
And I say, okay, what I should do, what I should renew.
So then the income went down.
the income went down.
So I think that most of the mainers
will love to hear from someone
how to do it the right way,
how to escalate the right way.
Someone can give some explanation about it.
I will really appreciate it.
Okay, yeah, that's a super good question.
And I like that you've mentioned the name pros.
I think I registered my account there about 20 years ago, if I'm not mistaken.
I mean, it's just crazy.
And I've gotten to know kind of, I guess, the life cycle of people who are on name pros, on forums, and broadly speaking in the domain industry.
The blessing and the curse of our
business is the low barrier to entry.
You know, you can get in so cheap and this gives people super unrealistic expectations,
I think.
So the average person on Nameprose, for example, I notice it time and time again, they kind of come to the industry with a lottery ticket mentality
rather than a statistics oriented mentality. And I guess as an economist, it's easier for
me to be statistics oriented. But again, you have people like Luke Federer on NamePros,
if that sounds familiar, you have to know him. Yeah, sure. Luke has about 10,000 domains or even more.
Yeah, he's also super enthusiastic about statistics.
And you're going to find this common denominator among people who do well in the business that they're excited about statistics.
The problem is, I think, what does it mean to have unrealistic expectations?
It means that people come know, people come,
a lot of them, with relatively short attention spans, and they become frustrated when things do
not work. They don't really map out the plan for what they're doing. And what I mean by that is,
okay, what is my strategy for building the portfolio? What should I be doing if what I'm doing works?
How should I scale?
What should I be doing, as you've mentioned, if what I'm doing does not work
and I find myself losing money?
You know, a common denominator I've seen on people on forums is that they treat
losing money like a badge of honor.
They're like, oh, I've been, to give you an example,
DotTV was huge on NamePros many years ago.
And some people made good money on DotTV, I'm sure, don't get me wrong,
but many people lost.
And you could see that on the DotTV sub, you know,
on the DotTV thread they had, the section they had on the forum,
people were like,
oh, yeah, I've been in dot TV for four years, I've lost this much money, but I'm confident,
and I'm hoping and I'm wishing and that's not the way to go about this business, you know, like,
they were more so, I guess, cheerleaders for dot TV than actual investors. And the fact of the
matter is, and there are many people who are very blunt
about this, like Paul Shaw, like Snoopy, you know, him on, on, on Twitter.
He's quite popular.
Yeah.
An asshole.
He's an asshole.
Is, but he owns, I think he owns wrestling.com.
He owned a, he was part owner in a domain forum back in the day and he made he's
among the people in this business who made a lot of money and yeah asshole or not his points i think
are quite valid a lot of times because you know at the end of the day you're here to learn and
who you should learn from anyone who has value to provide. And he's done well for himself. And he always mentioned one thing that is common sense.
You know, the fact that you need to be making money from your portfolio each and every year.
So personally, you know, if I register a bunch of domains and I'm not making money after one year, I would definitely not say, well, it's time
to sell my car and pay for renewals and then hope for the best. No, I would get just rage mode angry
and I would say, no, I have to make money this year. And if this means that I'm going to spend
15 hours a day doing outreach, I hate doing outreach, by the way,
but I would do it. I would do whatever it takes to get my inventory sold to enough of a degree
to pay for renewals and also think about the general portfolio overhaul. Because on the one
hand, I want to be making money. But on the other hand, I would be saying, wait a second,
what went wrong? What can I do better with the next domains so that I don't have to outbound like crazy
just to make back my money, you know, but even if you're failing, you don't throw good
money after bad.
You make the most of the portfolio you have, whether it's selling on the wholesale market
for whatever you can get or doing outreach or whatever.
And then again, a statistics
oriented approach where you rinse and repeat, you try to replicate what you've done right,
and you try to avoid what you've done wrong. And something else that I think bears repeating is that
these unrealistic perspectives also pertain to the amount of money you're going to make.
You know, the same people who approach it with a lottery mentality think that domaining is a great avenue to get rich.
Whereas I would say domaining is a great avenue to become financially independent.
You know, like my net worth personally, with real estate included, you would have to be
reasonably optimistic. It's barely at a million euros. And most of that is real estate that I've
accumulated over the years, you know, but my online stuff enabled me not to be rich, because
nowadays, come on, 1 million euros is not rich, for sure. But I don't need more. I'm just some
guy in Eastern Europe living on the farm
he's building and kind of doing his best to make the most of this life and I
think that's a favorite ask of your career
Andre forgive me for my for my accent or or my level of English which is so low
maybe I didn't express my question correctly.
I will reformulate it because I would like to hear from you since you are an economist.
If you have any strategy speaking about numbers, specific numbers for escalating the portfolio,
how much percentage you put on the side for renewal how much percentage for for reinvesting
what is your strategy in speak speak with me like i am an economist too don't be afraid feel feel in
your how you say in your area feel free to speak with me about numbers and if i don't understand
at least someone else in the audience will will understand. What you can tell me about the strategy with numbers?
Yeah, don't worry about it.
I'm not the native English speaker either.
Don't worry about that.
I'm not really sure that's the right approach
because it's very difficult for me or anyone else really
to just give you a recipe, so to speak,
because a lot of what you're doing is going to depend on context
you know how much to set aside from renew for renewals well the economy ebbs and flows and
domains are a function of liquidity ultimately the domain industry itself so if the economy is
suffering liquidity levels will suffer whether it's domains crypto or anything else so it's very
difficult for me or it's impossible for me or anyone to say, this is how much you should set aside for renewals each
year, because you should treat it less like an exact science and more of like a combination
between an exact science and being a surfer, riding the wave, so to speak. So you need to
be statistics oriented, you need to be thorough, but you also need to ride the wave, so to speak. So you need to be statistics oriented.
You need to be thorough, but you also need to ride the wave. And so, you know, if the economy is experiencing a Super Bowl period and everyone is out there
betting the farm that the party will continue, then it's time to take some money off the
table and renew some names in advance.
Not too much.
Don't renew your names like many people say three, four years in advance.
That's just, it's just not worth it.
But renew them enough so that you don't have to worry about being bombarded by renewals
because when you're in panic mode, you don't make the best decision.
So give yourself that buffer, but ride the wave, you know.
It's kind of like how people said with austerity that you should you need to implement anti cyclical strategies, not pro cyclical.
So when the economy is overheating, you as the government should not throw more money at the economy.
No, when the economy is overheating, maybe it's time to make your public sector more efficient.
Maybe it's time to cut costs because the economy can afford to handle it the same way. When the economy is suffering, you don't do what those imbeciles
did with Greece by implementing austerity when the economy is already suffering, because that's
a pro-cyclical approach. It doesn't work. You're basically hitting a guy who's already down.
And so the name of the game
when the economy is, I don't know,
maybe a panic like the COVID panic
or a financial crisis
or an economic crisis,
whatever happens when you find yourself
in that situation,
then it's just a matter of surviving.
So I think adaptability really is the key
to kind of surviving this industry.
Adaptability coupled with hard work and kind of making hay when the sun is
shining, Jack. I hope what I'm saying makes,
what I'm saying makes sense to you.
Andre, I do appreciate your, your trying to, you know,
couch all of the advice in uncertainty.
I think that's like very refreshing and not what you're going to hear
everywhere.
And I know Jack wants a straight answer and I appreciate that Andre is
willing to say, no, there is no straight answer.
However, I'd like to propose some like middle ground here.
You know, Andre is, you know,
preaching this religion of data-driven decision-making, of course correction, of critical analysis of how your portfolio is doing over time, and constantly iterating your way towards your desired end state.
Now, of course, this course correction is quite difficult because the cycle times and the feedback loop inside the domaining space is so
long. You just do not have sales come across your desk at the rate that other types of
investors see, where it's more or less instant feedback or one, two, three week timelines on
your trades. With domains. It's,
it's much longer lead time. Uh, and then you have to make your renewal decision very often without
even knowing, um, you know, how the, you know, views look, uh, on your, and the trends look on
the traffic to your domain. So what I want, what I, I think one happy medium we can get to here, Andre, is if you could suggest some sort of like review protocol for people's portfolios.
Perhaps this would be like a quarterly review that you do over your portfolio.
And I'm going to spitball some things here and then you can refine from there.
things here and then you can refine from there. But I would imagine this should look something
like going through your tracking spreadsheet or whatever you use, analyzing your names,
obviously looking for duds, things that in hindsight you should have dropped, perhaps
chunking your portfolio by various categories or strategies. know if you have seo domains with particular stats
or you have um you know some some geos or some brandables you could analyze the sell-through
rate for each of your various strategies and then be able to decide which of my strategies are
actually working well and which of them aren't and therefore figure out which strategies you should double down on
and then from there um you know drilling down into various stats so pulling the the searches from
from various marketplaces and how many views each lander has and how many leads you got
what percentage of those leads converted to uh an offer which of those that you decline what does the whole funnel look like
throughout the domain life cycle and then basically using all that to input some quality
score to each of these domains and then culling the ones that are not pulling their weight
and doubling down on the strategies and domains that are you know showing promise
even if that means they haven't sold,
that means they're getting leads and getting closer to the mark. So there's a rough outline,
but Andre, I'm curious, what does your protocol look like? Do you do quarterly reviews? I'm sure you do much more frequent reviews than that on your portfolio but what what would your course
correction protocol look like um and and walk us through that in some detail i think that would be
really helpful for people okay so right off the bat i think a book i would recommend to all of
the people who are watching this it's great for beginners to understand what i mean why all this
how numbers can fool us thing is if i were to read one book written by Nassim Taleb,
it would be fooled by randomness. And to address your question as to how frequently you should
renew your, you should analyze your portfolio to review it, that's also a function of portfolio
size because it's one of the mistakes I've noticed actually people make a lot of times.
If you own a hundred domains, it doesn't make any sense
to, let's say, review it quarterly and adjust prices every now and then quarterly or whatever,
because with just 100 domains, if you do that, you're going to be fooled by randomness because
you don't have enough inventory to draw statistically significant conclusions of
whatever it is you're doing. For example, tweaking the asking prices on
your domains, you know. And so if you own 100 domains, you should probably, you know, someone
in that situation should wait well over a year before making decisions. Because think about it,
you know, you have a 2% sell-through rate with 100 domains, it only means two sales a year. It's so
easy to be fooled by randomness, you know, and you have two people.
One of them has two sales.
Both of them have 100 domains.
One of them has two sales.
The other one has five sales.
No, let's put it differently.
The first one has zero sales.
The other one has five sales.
The first person thinks he's stupid and he stops playing around with domains altogether.
The other guy thinks he's a genius and then sells his house so as to buy domains because he's so
smart. But if you would have actually waited, let's say 10 years for things to unfold, maybe the first
guy would have gotten two sales the next year, two sales the next, two the next, two the next,
and then two sales per year for the remainder of those nine
years whereas the first guy maybe would have only got one sale the next year zero sales the next
one sale the next year so even if he had a good start it was due to randomness he just got lucky
whereas actually the portfolio that initially had zero sales was the one which performed better over a 10-year time span, which is why it's so tricky
to draw conclusions when it comes to these smaller portfolios because you get fooled by
randomness. The same way, if your huge domains, I don't know how much they have,
5 million domains under management plus infinity, okay? In their case, I can assure you that,
you know, you know,
that you're going to need your quants to go through the data and comb through it and see trends, traffic numbers, whatever. And, you know, in my case, yeah,
I review more than quarterly because A, I have a lot of domains. B,
I have a lot of turnover because I sell so much to resellers.
And so there's always this recalibration of your portfolio
that you have to make, because at the end of the day,
my goal is always being stronger.
When I sell to resellers,
I don't sell from a position of weakness.
You know, I sell to resellers because I can give them,
I can give them a fair price.
I can book my profit.
I can replenish my inventory and be left
with a little something extra and that's fine by me.
And I would also mention that as your portfolio grows enough for you to be able to draw conclusions,
you're going to find out something interesting.
And someone on X had a series of tweets about it a while back, which I think were very good.
Tony Names is his name.
I think he's from India, the guy.
And he mentioned, which is a very good point to make,
that once your portfolio grows, there's no such thing
as my portfolio.
It's going to have subsets of portfolios within.
It's going to have categories.
So I can promise you that Mike Mann,
for example, doesn't just say, well, my portfolio of 200,000 domains. No, he has his portfolio of
.com domains. And within that portfolio of .com domains, he has his portfolio of geo domains.
He has his portfolio of current trend domains. Then I know he also bought back in the day a lot of one word.co,
Columbia's cctld domain. And so that's a category. So as your portfolio grows,
you need to be aware of the fact that you're going to have these subsets of your portfolios
that are going to be similar enough to one another, the domains in each subset to draw
conclusions pertaining to that subset rather
than to the entire portfolio.
But anyway, long story short, people with small portfolio need to realize that if they're
looking for a way to, for example, draw conclusions by analyzing their portfolio quarterly, the
short answer is you really can't. The only instance in which you could do that
is if you say, look, I'm a small domainer for now, so I'm going to put in the work,
I'm going to sacrifice my time, and I am going to outbound each and every domain. In that case,
everything changes, and then it becomes a lot easier to analyze because for each domain you're going to see how many emails have i sent how many replies to those emails have i gotten how many of those
replies have resulted in an offer how many offers have resulted in a sale so even with
a hundred domains if you outbound all of them then yeah yeah, then that's a juicy, that's a lot of juicy data
to have. Because you send, let's say 100 emails per domain, and all of a sudden, you have 10,000
emails worth of data to analyze. That's something, that's something you can base, you know, that's
something where you can hope to have for sure, statistically significant findings.
And so that would be kind of my advice to people. I would beg you to read Nassim Taleb's book,
because there's just so much that it's impossible to cover in a show. But so many things in business,
in markets, in our personal lives, or whatever, we, you know, we're pattern seeking
creatures. So we have the tendency to ascribe meaning to all sorts of crazy stuff. But a lot
of things that happen, they just happen by pure chance by pure randomness.
Yeah, important, important context. Do you use any, you know any specialty tools, Andre, specifically for doing this analysis?
I mean, of course, you can download all of that juicy data from various marketplaces and registrars and crunch the numbers yourself in a spreadsheet.
But I'm wondering if you have other tools that you use, if there's other sasses that you suggest that people look into.
I mean, I'm an old school spreadsheet guy, and I'm kind of not ashamed of it. But honestly,
nowadays, in like the age of AI, I do think that, you know, especially as a beginner,
it's something that I wished I would have had, but I didn't have when I was beginning,
but people do have it now, this ability to talk with a reasonable counterparty and say, look,
here's all my data. You can give them your Excel spreadsheets, or you can give them,
you can have your data in a notepad if you want to, and give, feed that data to AI and tell them,
look, interpret that data for me, help me figure out patterns, explain it to me, dumb it down for
me. You can tell anything on this planet to your AI and it's going to do it. And eventually you can even, you know, $200 a month to gain access to GPT-5, the high-end
version of it may seem like a lot, but once you own enough domains, it's going to be worth
it for you.
And, you know, it's not difficult for one of these models to make your life easier enough to justify
the price tag associated with it. So honestly, just, I don't think you should be ashamed to be
a beginner, really. I think you should just, even if you just feed your data to AI, if you tell your
AI, look, pretend I know nothing about anything on this planet, dumb it down for me,
explain it like I'm five, and you're going to grow so much by doing it, and you're going to learn so
much about your own data and about how you can interpret data in general by doing that, you know,
that, to me, the best solution adjusted for today's reality is literally just that. Collect your data,
feed it to AI, chat to your AI, talk to it about it.
When you think it's hallucinating, second guess it. You can have multiple models checking one
another. There are so many ways to skin this cat, but it's just super simple to do. So why
wouldn't you do that? Yeah. I see Arif shared his portfolio projection calculator, which has a nice spreadsheet view, and you can see it in the reply to the post that has our space in it.
If you back out a little bit, I invited Arif up if you want to walk us through it. But basically you input...
Is that Arif?
No, it's me.
Arif is the data guy.
He's the numbers guy.
He's great doing that.
I saw many spreadsheets that he shared of sales in the $100 range, in the $1,000.
He's great.
So I hope he can come up to the stage.
Arif, we love what you do.
You're sharing real data, real numbers.
You go straight to the point.
So come up and enlighten us.
We do love numbers here.
And Arif, if you could share the link to the spreadsheet,
that would be super useful as well.
I'll just talk through it here while we wait for Arif to come up up if he does um but basically the spreadsheet allows you to input a couple of
variables um so you're you're starting portfolio size your previous profit acquisitions per year
per month whatever um and then sell through rate average sale price and then sell-through rate, average sale price, and then the average commission that you pay.
And once you've configured all of that, you can look at the scaling of your portfolio and what
you can expect at different time periods into the future, three years, six years, on and on.
And then you can look at your sales volume
that you could expect.
And of course, you need to have trustworthy inputs.
You need to have the variables
that you're configuring on the spreadsheet.
You need to have some level of trust with them.
You can't, of course, Andre is fooled by Ram
and it holds especially true here.
If you only have, you know, three months of data to input into here, the variance is going to be quite high and you can't really trust the outputs.
But if you have a decent track record, then this, I think, provides an interesting way to at least visualize the size of your portfolio growing.
way to at least visualize the the size of your portfolio of growing of course you
know the hard work of figuring out how to do that and what names to acquire and
what strategies to employ you know that's that's a more of an art than a
science but in any case that's a really useful tool appreciate you sharing that
Arif hey guys yeah just let you know um can you hear me wait yep okay yeah uh let's go by uh arif although there
are some people the same name that do go by a reef so it's like you just gotta thank you thank
you yes and and yeah first thing i have to say is listen exactly to what andre said right it's
what i posted is theoretical right there's totalness. Any given single domain sale is random either at,
was it bought with like the randomness of timing somebody wanting that domain or also the price
point, right? So all these things, what's good about this kind of spreadsheet is you could like
just talk strategy and long-term planning, but you'll never get these exact results, right? This
is just purely theoretical. That's, that's one thing I really want to stress because some people
look at that and go, oh, you can get this result and that result and really at the end of the day what it
really comes down to is you can never put in a spreadsheet understanding what makes like a one
percent sell through domain at three thousand dollars you just have to know that right and
that's experience and so like you know just saying as he said before you know yeah two percent self
rate one percent self-through rate it sounds easy but it's not. And the difference between a 1% sell through rate and zero or even 0.1% sell
through is enormous. But most people, like when you're starting off, they don't get that difference.
So that I really need to stress before jumping into the, into the numbers and whatever it is.
And so I was listening before I didn't get here at the very, very start. So what I plugged in was,
you know, he was talking about a thousand domains.
So this is basically if you buy a thousand domains per year, right?
And you keep on that pace, the average acquisition, I didn't hear what he had for that.
So I put 25 because I'm assuming it's going to be some hand reg, some closeouts, mostly
probably five and $11 closeouts and maybe the occasional auction domain in the mix.
My personal stealth rate is 1%, even a little bit below,
but my average sales are like much higher.
So I, but the, you know, 1.5, 1,500, that's what I put in there.
And again, it's just to help you guys, you know, visualize,
you know, how it works and the growth of the portfolio.
And as you said also, like, you know,
sometimes there's certain opportunities you want to take them.
And other times it's like, there's a glut of,
there's not really great domains around.
And, you know, you want to set that aside. L it's like there's a glut of there's not really great domains around and you know you want to set that aside lately last few months since mid april i've
actually acquired uh almost a little over a thousand domains right my and my portfolio now
is about five thousand so but up until like up until early 2024 i was about three thousand and
i was steady at three thousand for about four years since mid 2020 so that's just a bit of
the background.
But yeah, if you have any questions, go ahead.
Oh, hello.
Yep, I can hear you.
Okay.
No, it's fantastic.
Context to share.
Yeah, lovely to see. Well guys, i want to um i mean anything else there rf before we before we change gears jack i know was that helpful for you jack i
mean you you were talking exactly about scaling your portfolio so that seems right up your alley
to be honest not so much but i appreciate it. I appreciate the good willing.
So for me to answer that question, actually, it goes a little bit to what Andre says about
just quality of life and all that kind of stuff.
Like I just go in phases.
There are times when I don't want to bother with, you know, the hustle of really, you
know, being deep into the list every night.
And I just stopped, right.
I stopped at one point for three years.
That was between mid 2020 and early 2024.
So three and a half years.
Right.
Uh, and then again, like a couple of times, like I've had some, you know, really some
family health issues, uh, that I've, I've been dealing with.
And so I've, I go in waves, uh, but lately I've been buying simply because actually
late at night,
I go through a list and for me, it's like Zen time.
It's almost therapy for me.
So for me, that time isn't, I don't really consider it a cost.
It's more like, okay, I enjoy going through a list.
But yeah, so to say like, is there a specific strategy to growing?
No, I think when you start off, you have a huge problem, right?
Because I said, most people do not recognize the difference between a 1% sell through a
domain at $3,000 and a 0.1% sell through domain, right?
And the difference is losing all your money versus, you know, making a nice profit.
And so at the start, you got to start slow.
But the problem is it's difficult to, to get a grasp of what makes that, that domain
that you need to be profitable unless you have experience.
Right.
And that's where, you know, coming to rooms like these and reading all the reports and,
and, uh, you know, looking at, uh, the end journal and all, all these things, it helps
a lot.
But again, like if you're starting off in the, in the bread and butter domains, right.
The closeouts and whatever it is, like you can listen to domain Sherpa and all that stuff,
but they don't really talk about those domains too much.
Right.
So you really got to come to the rooms and, and, you know, share stuff and listen to domain Sherpa and all that stuff, but they don't really talk about those domains too much. Right. So you really got to come to the rooms and, and, you know, share stuff and listen
to when people talk, uh, you know, um, Josh reason, he's a good guy to listen to. He has his things on
Thursdays. So he, he, he gives a lot of tips that I would really consider very wise. He's, he's quite,
quite a good, uh, he also deals in the upper range stuff, but he does talk about lower range stuff too, and how you want to progress going forward.
Like for me, 95 plus probably even 97% of my portfolio were mostly closeouts I've acquired
like over the years.
Right.
However, you know, uh, now I'm venturing into the auctions, right.
I'm buying some stuff at auction.
Uh, actually reminds me I have to make a bid, but, uh, yeah, it's, uh,'s uh you do want to scale up at some point because you know uh once you
increase in quality you know that the self-through rate will go up in those domains and your hold
times will be lower but what i like about going in the lower level stuff is that you with volume
you get consistency and relative predictability like with single domains you never know what's
going to sell or not.
You can spend $10,000 on a really nice one word domain and it could be a great
domain, but you might be sitting on it for 10 years.
Right.
And so then you're stuck.
That was your budget to start.
Right.
So, but if you put in a lot of domains, you get decent quality and spread it out.
You know, then, then the numbers start to be more statistics and like, you
know, averages as opposed to luck, right? That's,
that's, you know, the casino mentality, right? As if you forget the winning and losing, but
like, if you're the player, you're only playing a small number of hands, you have a small number
of domains. Well, you can be up or down in any given time, but if you're the casino on the other
side, right, you have like literally millions of bets and play per week or per month or whatever
you're calculating. Right. And in that side, you get consistency and law of averages kick in and like
5,000 domains, like honestly, month to month, there's very little consistency,
but year over year, the last several years have been actually eerily consistent.
You know, this year I'm having a little bit of a better year.
Um, but it's, you know, it's still in kind of tune with the last few years and the last four years before that were pretty much, you
know, predictable year over year.
But I had months where I sold five domains and months where I sold zero domains.
I just missed it.
How many, the size portfolio you holding, did you say that you have a less than 10,000?
Oh yeah. portfolio you you're holding did you say that you have a less than 10 000 yeah yeah yeah uh i have
uh so up until up until early 2024 at 3 000 3 200 whatever it is early 2024 i bought a batch about
400 last september october i bought 800 and i just recently in the last four months i've acquired a
thousand which i haven't placed for sale yet right i got to price them. So you're around the 8,000?
I'm just hitting 5,000, but only 4,000 are for sale.
The other newest 1,000, I have to price and list, which is...
Wow, congratulations.
That's amazing.
And it's very difficult, by the way, because when I start, I just start with 100 domains.
I got my first sale.
Then I just put back all the money and I repeat the process every time.
And then in the second year, I think,
I reach up the 1000 domains.
Then I just start to grow slower
and I reach to 1200.
And that was the maximum.
And now we are decreasing the portfolio size.
I trying to increase the quality and less the quantity.
And also I am not investing the same amount of time,
but when I had the thousand domains, 1200,
it was not easy at all to keep up with everything.
So how you help yourself to to manage all that
you have any any um uh tool there is some platforms uh i'm pretty proficient in in in
spreadsheets as you might be able to see so yeah my my spreadsheet is quite complex like there's
many many sheets but i have like you know i i have one sheet that where i
import let's say all my domains from godaddy another sheet all my stuff from spaceship and
my main sheet will rip all the data from that the expiration dates will rip out which which uh
register it's at and then i it also automatically generates like my upload file for after nick and
that kind of stuff so it's not it's not a simple spreadsheet but like the other advice i have when
you're starting off get organized right away it doesn't have to be super complex but get
your spreadsheet in there get your acquisition dates your your you know your acquisition prices
all these things because once you get to a thousand domains or three thousand domains when i kind of
started getting more serious about it like i had more columns it's it's it's it makes for a very
long weekend you go back and put them in your spreadsheet.
But it's important to have that information, right?
Just so you can...
I can imagine that your spreadsheet is not so simple.
But, you know, I am very honest here.
I found some success.
I can say that I have like a two percent search rate and
i only do 100 registration and plus minus i get one cell inbound i don't do outbound i don't have
time for it every month and even though i i can say that i am a little bit successful because I am not in in red I am in revenue every year but I still going freestyle
I don't have any you know any guidance any strategy I just flow and it's going well I don't
know if it's because I am lucky or or what is the, but I am going like kind of blind, just follow my gut feeling.
And this is what I think that we need in this industry.
We need some kind of, because even in the DN Academy and in all the podcasts,
they never spoke about how to do professionally, how to escalate the portfolio, how to grow. Everyone seems like going like me or most of everyone, going like freestyle.
So that will be nice to one day to build up together, bringing each one some piece of
information and then come up with a strategy, with a strategy a professional strategy how to do
it in the right way yeah are if you want to walk us through these wholesale acquisitions i mean it
sounds like you've been hitting them in a pretty steady clip recently uh you know where where did
you where did you acquire those what was your reasoning and strategy behind them as much as
you're willing to share and then you know how did you actually execute them and and then how's that going yeah i pretty much operate with uh you know in godaddy
um expired auctions it's mostly closeouts again i've ventured a little bit into uh into okay
these were not these were not portfolio acquisitions it sounded like you were you were
you know buying a whole portfolio oh no no no yeah no no i say like a thousand domains over the last four months it's like okay okay and a day more or less now sometimes 15 a day sometimes
five a day sometimes i take a day off you know but relatively it's like it's really bit by bit
and again most mostly closeouts uh you know typical bread and butter domains like two word
dot coms or short phrases uh or, a couple of made up brandables,
but you know, it's all, so it's a mix of the, you know, the typical, you know, again, most of us call bread and butter domains. It's stuff that sells 1% sell through eight.
It used to be 3000 average this year, my average sales way up. Cause I've had,
I've had three, five figure sales. And for me, I don't need five figure sales. Like the last few
years, I had one last year and years before that I didn't have any. And that's again, like, I don't, you don't need to have these superstar, like one-off sales.
They certainly help. Right. And you will get them every now and then. But at the same time,
like I never needed them. So in previous years, my average is a $3,000 sales. This year, it might
even be five. I haven't really checked, but but again I've had a few really nice ones lately um but uh you know overall like it's just you want some consistency you get those
solid domains but again it's it's hard like in this in the short little lesson or session here
it's hard to really get to the explanation of what makes a good domain a lot of that it really
it's experience it's gut check it's gut check, it's your world knowledge, even stuff you learn, you know, from before coming into domains, right?
Like if you know a little bit about certain industries, you don't need to be an expert
on any given industry, but you need to know enough about it to know, oh yeah, these words,
this word combination is going to be useful to a company who's going to try and sell this
product, you know?
And that's, that's, you know, again, it's, it's experience.
It's sometimes it comes with the age. Sometimes it comes like me most of my life i've watched the news probably you know
at least five times a week that kind of stuff it's it's really um uh you know it it adds up with
world knowledge like i don't consider myself an expert in any one thing but i do consider myself
knowledgeable in a wide variety of things enough to see value, right? Again, you don't have to be the expert.
It certainly helps, but you don't need to be.
Yeah, all that doom scrolling on Twitter is paying off.
That's the moral of the story there.
As long as you're on the tech parts of Twitter,
then at least you're on the frontier
and you're keeping up with all the buzzwords
and you're seeing where value is accruing.
I want to change gears, guys, really quickly and talk about LTO.
So LTO is a feature we are about to roll out at Unstoppable next week, at least in a closed beta.
And so we're very excited to give that to folks.
It's been long awaited by a lot of people.
We've seen great data i think
you know adam and others have have shown that lto considerably increases sell-through rate um for
you know various portfolios um to the tune of something like 10 to 20 percent i think your
your sell-through rate can increase if you have an lto. Don't quote me on that. I'm sure we can dig up a post where I'm recalling that from. But so we know that's critical for you guys. And of
course, the lower the barrier to entry you can get for the buyer to pull the trigger and get that
domain, the better the results are for you. And of course, people harp on defaults of LTOs,
but free money is free money at the end of the day.
And so it's good all around to have LTOs.
So we're really excited to share that with you guys.
Some of the critical features that we are launching
as part of the initial rollout
will be a configurable two to 120 month term.
So that's 10 years, up to 10 years. You as a seller can decide exactly what the max will be.
And then the buyer can pick anywhere between two and the max that you set. So you're not going to
find a larger range of terms anywhere else. And that's,
I think, a key differentiator that we're offering people right off the bat.
We'll also allow you to configure the down payment. And that means that you can decide
exactly how much or how little you want that initial payment to be, whether you want them to get the
foot in the door or if you want to scare off defaults and unserious buyers, that's completely
up to you. I just want to interrupt one second. The option is gold. That's the most important
thing that's missing in some of the places. It's been started a couple of places. And the fact
that AFNIC doesn't have that, it'skers you know they bought out dan and they're supposed
to the whole point of that they said was for lto and to have that lto without having that initial
like higher down payment or higher first payment or whatever you want to call it technically like
that's it's just amazing so good good on you guys for doing that. Sorry. That has to be said.
Yeah.
All good.
Well, I appreciate the feedback.
We've heard it time and time again.
So another big one that probably won't be launched next week, but hopefully soon, is the ability to do a graduated payment schedule.
And this is something I've talked to
a handful of domainers about,
but in the same way that you wanna be able
to configure the down payment,
you also may want to be able to configure
the rate at which payments change over time.
So imagine you ramp up each payment 5, 10% month over month.
Imagine you ramp up each payment 5%, 10% month over month.
And so early on, the buyer is spending very little, very close to the down payment amount.
But then as they become more attached to the domain, as their business develops around the domain, as they start using it in marketing and becoming more invested in that domain uh you know as a business then you
can ramp up the uh the installment sizes such that uh you can minimize the overall length of the term
while not seeing a huge drop off um or an increase in default rates so um you know, I envision that basically being, you know, a little percentage, you can basically have a straight line, you know, graph of all of these, you know, payment installments.
And then you can just change the slope of that straight line by saying, I want the installments to increase 10% month over month or 5% month over month or whatever the number is.
increase 10% month over month or 5% month over month or whatever the number is.
So anyway, that's, that's another critical piece that we'll try to get out soon.
And of course that helps you really strike the balance between getting the,
you know, barrier to entry quite low to get that in those initial payments low
to get those initial payments low and easy for people to come in and get hooked.
and easy for people to come in and get hooked.
And then it also protects you as the seller by ensuring that as the buyer is more invested,
they are being required to pay more.
And that keeps the terms nice and short and makes sure that both parties are satisfied.
So we are, yeah, we're extremely keen to roll that out.
You may have seen, I posted recently,
that we'll be rolling out new lander design as well.
Now, of course, our existing landers already have
Buy It Now, they have Make it now, they have make offer, configurability, as well as self brokerage
direct message abilities. So all of that will still be allowed on the landers and then you'll
just get LTO as a new option. So lots of new stuff coming down the pipe for you guys and
even more that I can't share with you right now.
So we're very keen to share that with you guys.
One last thing is in the scheme of figuring out, there's a lot of options now on our landers.
You have message seller, you have buy it now, you have LTO, you have make offer.
That's probably information overload.
That's probably analysis paralysis
inducing for buyers um and so i think probably the best practice that we'll settle on and this is
still to to be discussed perhaps you guys can give me some input here um is probably the the default
template will be to encourage buy and out price ltoTO and then a make offer button.
And then basically you don't wanna encourage people
to just send you a message like that doesn't cost anything.
It's non-committal.
You wanna scare away, you know, unserious buyers
and really only have serious conversations with people.
And of course you can still, you know dm back and forth with the with the buyer
after they send you an offer so if they send you an offer um then you can respond to it you know
in text and they can dm back and forth and then you can send a counter offer what have you um so
it's not that self-brokerage would go away if we took away that button, but it would, you know, encourage, uh, you know,
making an offer rather than chit chatting and low-balling you, uh,
and all this other stuff. So if you have feedback on that, I'm curious to hear.
If you allow me, I would like to ask the two question.
One is regarding the LTO and one is regarding the landers.
Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Um, regarding the the landers yeah okay thank you um regarding the lto the it is possible
will be possible to for example close the remaining payments with the with the with the buyer for
example in atom they have this option if there is like $4,000 remaining in payments, you can tell the buyer,
okay, listen, if you close the remaining payment at once,
I can do it for you for $3,500 or $3,000, for example.
And they can make a deal because it's a win-win situation.
This kind of thing will be possible?
Yeah, absolutely.
That's on our radar.
Not coming immediately, but it's something we want to help with.
Also being able to send an early payoff offer and say,
hey, I know you're one quarter of the way through the term,
but if you pay it all off right now i'll give you a 10 off discount
uh something like this i think is a is also you know we've seen around the industry uh and is a
great way to encourage those early payoffs uh and just gives you more options uh if you're strapped
for cash and want that that cash now um and just offers you more flexibility so yes all that is on the radar and
that's amazing and also reduce the risk of a canceling the LTO at some point and
the second question is regarding the lander it is possible to to make
customizable personalized landers like it was in done that you can just upload a picture and put it as a background yes
so i mean on our old landers we allowed you to upload a picture uh it was a bit clunky but you
could do it um and of course you can configure the listing by saying whether you're not well currently we're working on on making sure that you can do that
um currently i think we we allow make offer and um and self brokerage on every lander uh but we'll
let you toggle that on and off in on an individual basis going forward um as for you know i think the
the two critical customization pieces that people talk to me most about are like an image, a background, capitalization of the domain, and then a description.
Exactly.
So those three things are certainly on my radar.
We're working towards a world where you can customize those.
We're going to be doing where you can customize those.
We're going to be doing some other things in the meantime.
So, yeah, that's not coming imminently, but I know that you guys want it,
and it's on the roadmap, so perhaps in a couple of months we'll be able to get to that.
And just an idea I would like to throw right now, I thought about it. Maybe a good idea maybe not but i will share it what about adding to the lander an option that you have like the social media
buttons that you can put uh the buyer can just click and go directly to to your whatsapp or to
your your telegram or or your x account or your email account or whatever, we can contact you with
different, different ways. This is something that you are thinking or it's not necessary.
Yeah. So this is an interesting one. We've been, we've been thinking about as well. I mean, my,
my counter question to you is, well, obviously you have, you have self brokerage chat already. So as the baseline, you will be able to send and receive DMs with each other.
And so we've got that covered. Now, of course, you know, it's nice for the buyer to be able to see that you're a real person and talk to your actual social accounts.
And obviously it gives you guys much more flexibility. The question is, and I would love to hear your feedback on this, is if you were given the ability to freely chat with these buyers,
and I know David Sustiel had a thread about this yesterday. I think David was in here earlier,
but he's gone now. The question is, if you were able to freely chat in Telegram or WhatsApp or whatever else with these buyers, are you going to, you know, use a GoDaddy checkout link or an Aceto checkout link or even PayPal, Venmo, wire transaction and then just push the domain?
Like, is that usually the end state when you are self-brokering a deal elsewhere?
when you are self-brokering a deal elsewhere?
Is there any need for the buyer
to pay through the lander at all at that point?
This is a business question for us,
but I'm curious to hear,
given that freedom and flexibility,
would you be using a custom checkout link from GoDaddy
to use the GoDaddy badge, which is highly trusted, you know
I think I
Know where you are going you you you are trying to say like if
You you think that maybe this is a way for for the seller to
To take the lead away to pay pay less commission or something else?
This is what you mean?
That's right, yes.
First, I cannot answer for everyone, but personally, I wouldn't do that for two reasons.
One is not looking good, not just from the platform, also for the for the buyer because you know it show if if
the buyer contact you from from one place and you're sending it to to another place so it's
look a little bit you know dishonest so this this is what i think it's not transparent it's not a
what i think it's not transparent it's not a showing a a good side from from you as a seller
the second thing is that i i don't think it's even worse to do that because the commission on the
unstoppable is already low so how much will I pay the commissions?
Okay.
So I have no point to do that because it will even cost me more to do that.
Well, people do talk about the trustworthiness of the GoDaddy brand.
And, of course, that has some impact.
It's not out of the question to think
that would be a 2% boost to your sell-through rate
if you had the GoDaddy badge assuring buyers
instead of the unstoppable badge.
The thing that if people wanted to do that,
they wouldn't choose any landers,
third-party landers to begin with.
If people want to go in that way they will
just put a you know a personal lander with their personal details whatsapp a phone number email
whatever and that's it and then we'll bring the lead to the go that link but i don't see people doing that much only people with with the high
priced domains you know valuable domains have their personalized their personal landers the
rest 95 or even more percent of of the sellers are using landers so uh also you can do that from
from spaceship for example if you are talking with
the customer you can also send your personal details but nobody nobody doing that nobody
asking also personal details from the buyer to open a lead in in godaddy so if people are not
doing that already i don't think they will do that in the future with unstoppable if they give such an option just just my point of
view yeah i tend to i tend to agree because uh it's kind of like game theory right would people
risk the opportunity would people risk coming across as sleazy basically by getting people to
hop on another on another platform even if that platform is GoDaddy, fair enough.
The likelihood of losing a sale, I think is too great for people to do it.
They definitely wouldn't do it to save on commissions. You could make the credibility argument, but I would say that A, if they were to not
want to use the unstoppable lander, then that sale is lost to begin with.
Also B, chances are that
domains are also going to be added in the registration path at GoDaddy anyway. So if
someone's such a huge fan of GoDaddy, they could buy it that way. Personally, due to the fact that
I keep my prices low, I don't really like to chit chat with end users and things of that nature. So
to me, a landing page the simpler
it is the better it is for my specific prices and purposes but in this instance i don't know you
know it's it's it's it would risk coming across as such a sleazy move that i don't think people
would take the chance absolutely and also let's let's not forget that the buyers are not giving away that easy their
information their personal information in the opposite they try to hide their information from
us so we cannot check who is the buyer where he's from he which company because today anyway almost
anyone that is looking for a domain for a startup for, for a company, have a LinkedIn, have already
a project.
It's not the first company they want to open.
So the information is already online.
So they don't want to give that tool for us.
They are afraid.
Also, there is hacking and everything.
So nobody will give.
And as you say before, the seller may end up losing or risking to lose the sale just for asking their personal details.
The buyer will say, why you need my personal information? I want to buy the domain, that's it.
So I don't think that, as you say before, that sellers will risk the sale just to save a few dollars on the commission,
which is not even the case
because they are ending paying more and all that.
So this is my view.
And maybe you should ask for more people for feedback
or maybe just make a test
and then check how it's going.
But it was just an idea that I throw i throw it there yeah of course
well it's it's certainly an idea we've heard before um so yeah that's it's good to hear that um
sort of the game theory keeps everyone aligned here already uh you know i was gonna say like
i understand your dilemma right because obviously you want to keep the sales on platform.
I would say in normal circumstances, you, I would be very skeptical that, you know, you wouldn't lose some sales.
However, like you guys, I don't know how long you're going to keep the 3% for, I don't
know if that's maintainable long-term or not, but I mean at 3%, like why would anybody go
elsewhere?
Plus if the lead already initiated from unstoppable, that means the person is already comfortable with unstoppable, right?
It's not like I have my own landing page and the guy,
the person had the offer of unstoppable or go daddy, in which case, yeah,
the brand awareness might be a difference maker, right?
But if a lead comes from, from, from unstoppable, then, you know,
you're going to just assume that that person is,
wants to deal with unstoppable, right? So combine that with a 3% or even 5%, whatever it is,
I don't see it being an issue with those variables in play.
Now, again, if you change things up, it might change.
If you guys ever went to 15%, I could see some people, whatever.
But 3%, it's kind of hard to beat.
Yeah. All right, right guys i'm sold you're you're getting you're getting telegrams and whatsapps on the landers congratulations you
talked me into it um i mean i know that's big i don't think any other major platforms offer that
that maybe like FD I'm not sure do you guys know of any other major landers that offer that
maybe like fd i'm not sure do you guys know of any other major landers that offer that
no not that I know of with your own number I don't know uh I don't know about Adam Whitepages
but uh I don't I don't think so actually uh FD obviously it's a different it's a different sort
of thing because it's your own you're paying them for the actual product right so it's a different sort of thing because it's your own. You're paying them for the actual product, right?
So it's a different, it's not like a commission-based thing.
So that's why it's different.
But other than that, like it's, you're going to offer that.
It's a fantastic difference maker.
Yeah.
Put a number up there or any kinds of contact.
I mean, it makes a difference.
Are you guys also going to be doing, like having your own brokers there?
Or is it strictly like
self-brokered like I mean is there would you guys also put like unstoppable's
phone number like for a sales thing or so in the medium term we're looking at
integrating third-party brokers so in a in a way somewhat similar to Adams
cloud brokerage you'll be able to contract and and
work with third-party brokers all integrated into the marketplace to make it super easy to actually
you know enter a contract with these brokers establish the commission rates establish the
rules of engagement and then um and then let the brokers go out and do their thing and trust that you'll get your regular updates and that everyone will be paid out automatically.
So that is what you can expect in the medium term. We're going to be hopefully tackling that
pretty soon. But I think that gives people more flexibility. It to you know network with a bunch of brokers in the space
and I think it's just a better product overall because these brokers are going to be competing
for you guys for your business as domainers when that happens that means you know their commissions
get driven down that they have to hustle a little bit harder because otherwise you choose the next guy. So I think for domainers, that's the ideal product.
And yeah, we'll be looking into that quite soon.
If you guys are about to successfully do that, that's like a huge advantage as well,
because, you know, between me and you and AFNIC, there are some fantastic brokers,
but then there's also some like that really drop the ball, you know, regularly.
Right.
And that's, we having a choice is a good thing, right?
If you have a guy who sells a couple of your domains and like, oh, you're happy with the way they interact with you and their communication methods, then yeah, it'd be great to be able to have that as a choice.
You know, it's going to be a big task for you guys to get that going because, you know, again, control is is not an easy thing when it
comes to staffing and especially sales and brokers it's uh i wish you luck because if you can you can
pull that off it's going to be you can have something really good in your hands yeah well
i appreciate the heads up um that's something we'll certainly think about and we'll probably
you know that's the initial brokers that we bring on, or at least the broker organizations, you know, we'll try to onboard SAW and, you know, media options and, you know, some of the bigger players, not necessarily individual freelanc is that we can show you their track record. We can show you exactly what you can expect from these folks.
And so you can make a clearer decision about which broker and which tier of quality and price that you want to engage with.
So, yeah, all that's coming soon.
We're going to get started on that quite soon. I do want to circle back and this will probably be the last segment that we do before
you wrap. But, you know, as we're on the topic of LTO, you know, what are the, you know,
configuration settings that you guys have for your domains?
How does it vary between the various price points that you have?
Or even do you vary LTO configuration based on what kind of domain,
whether it's a tech-oriented brandable versus a, you know,
sort of a low-tier geo domain? You know, how do you guys, you know, sort of a low tier geo domain.
You know, how do you guys, you know,
and what data especially have you seen on, you know,
optimizing your LTO strategy?
I just go by the maximum.
I always set up the maximum payment amount. If it's 2,000, 3,000, I put the maximum. 36 payments, 24 payments. This is the overall.
payments uh at least you know to to have a sale because uh money is money so if i don't get it
today i will get it tomorrow and and sometimes it it does the difference because uh if we translate
it to to regular uh product when you go to a store sometimes you don't have uh two thousand dollars
or one thousand dollars to spend spend on a cell phone,
but you can do it in payments in $50 per month, for example.
And if you don't have the option to pay $50 a month
and the store is asking you for $100, maybe this is a deal breaker.
So I don't want to have any limitation for the buyer.
I like to give the maximum freedom.
And then the buyer will choose what is comfortable for him.
If he wants 60 payments, 36.
Most of the LTOs I have with the maximum payment, let's say 36, they never choose the 36.
They choose less.
Nobody wants to stay and hook it up for for for so long so so this
is my my experience yeah do you have any issues i mean what is your default rate that's the corollary
to you know high term limits Until now, so far,
I had only one
domain that was cancelled
after the first payment
from after it.
And I didn't have any
anymore.
Just one.
One out of how many?
That default.
One out of a few hundred.
You've had a few hundred LTOs. One out of a few hundred.
You've had a few hundred LTOs.
Ah, LTOs.
From the LTOs, let's say maybe from 20 to 30.
Okay.
But the reason I think the reason I don't have
too many cancellations is because the price
of my domains is already low it's between 1000 to
3000 so and the the payment plan is is very flexible too it's not something that that someone
cannot keep paying that is not they cannot afford to keep paying it's always $70, $100. This is plus minus the range.
So far was only one of them.
And to be clear, you said 20 to 30 LTOs that have been started, correct?
Yes, and from that, only one was canceled.
That's pretty good.
And, you know, even at the end of the day, that's free money.
I think I just pinned a post on the space here.
It's the second one if you scroll right.
But I think, you know, a lot of people, you know, their instincts are to have a large upfront down payment for an LTO.
When I think, and again, I'm spitballing.
I'm not a domainer.
Well, I've started to domain.
I don't have any sales yet.
So you should not listen to me.
But it would seem that you would want to copy the freemium model that every SaaS under the sun has adopted over the past 15 years,
which is make the product free for the most part, get people in the door, get them to sign up,
get them in your email drip, and then get them using the product, get it stickier,
get them uploading their data and starting to become reliant on that product. And then,
as soon as you have them hooked, then you start charging, at which point you can convert the sale at a much better rate.
And I think this is a great allegory for LTOs where you want the down payment and you want the upfront payments,
the early on payments to be as low as possible and then creep up until they've become attached to the domain.
And they basically have to pay the remainder.
So the only very issue with that is if I look at my sales, I can tell you certainly more than 50%
of them are never built out. They never use them, right? So too long an LTO at some point,
they're just going to realize, oh, I don't have the time to build this business or it didn't work
out the way I thought it would. People always these people always have these dream wake up one morning and they buy
your domain as long you know we're talking four figure domains right we're not talking five and
six figures but even then some of them are not ever built out either so that's why for me i always
like i think the down payment or the first higher first payment is is imperative because it gets
them to have some skin in the game right you don't want you want to give them like that sunk cost
but it's like okay they don't want to.
But worst case scenario, Andre, you get the domain back
if they decide to not.
What else are you doing with that domain?
You might as well earn some money on it, right?
Like it's not costing you anything.
Otherwise, you're probably not going to get a sale
for another year plus for the same domain.
So why not give it a go?
There's still a chance they, if you didn't offer LTO, they might've bought it at the,
at the full price, right? It's still, there's still that chance depending on the price points.
That's why LTO, sometimes it might be depending on the performance. Like I've had before even,
like I've only recently added LTO as an option for my, my stuff on AFNIC. I've had, I've had a few,
but before even off as an option, I had a brokered
sale where the broker was trying to get lower the price a bit for the buyer.
And I go, well, look, I'm not gonna go below this point, but I can offer it
over 12 months.
And so that was my first LTO and in a strange twist, like it was the.
The implementation was a disaster, but like once it got underway, it was okay.
And it was 12 months
and i got like nine or ten of the payments and then the person stopped paying so that was like
the perfect scenario right it was a good domain i got like you know uh 80-ish percent of the payments
and i got the domain back right so it that was a good thing i've also recently actually talking
about paying off the stuff like Like again, GoDaddy
platform is a bit of a disaster. You know, I had somebody pay off, it had already made two payments
and then he paid it all off, but I got like four different emails. So like the last four payments,
I got an email for each of them and it was like, oh, it was all convoluted. And anyways,
it wasn't very clear, but that's, yeah, that's typical for GoDaddy. But you know, again,
you want to have the option where they can pay it off.
But again, yeah, you know, I know the SaaS model is what people want, but when it comes to starting a business, you got to keep in mind most businesses fail, right?
And you have a five-year LTO.
Well, if that business fails after the first six months, you're not getting the rest of that money, right?
So get a good job.
Sometimes it's a good thing.
For example, for me, what happened when they defaulted the LTO,
I got happy, you know, because after I made the sale,
I realized that I sold it too cheap.
I was desperate.
And sometimes, you know, you price in a bulk, many domains.
And when someone paid for you the domain, then you realize that you didn't price it well.
You got to work on that.
That's the problem then, right?
You should not have a regret making a sale.
You should price your domains at a price point where you're confident with the sales price, right?
Where you're happy with it.
But they always happen.
It's like in life when sometimes you
you separate from from a from a woman from a partner and then you understand that you made
a mistake that you you shouldn't let it go hey you you should keep her yeah this is the same life
go ahead andre go ahead andre sorry um if i can interject i don't think the analogy with the lady
friend is is on point because after you break up
with the lady friend you know there are many fish in the sea whereas when it comes to my domains
at least in theory it sounds good that you're like well they made some payments and then they
stopped but i get to keep the domain but practically for my own portfolio it never once happened to me that somebody bought the domain through LTO, then
stopped making that payment and I got then stopped making the payments and then I got the domain back.
And then later on, somebody else bought it. Chances are that you're not going to get any other action.
So let me put it different. The probability of getting additional action on that domain, at least for my inventory, people's mileage may vary.
The probability of getting action again on a domain that has been defaulted on through an LTO is far lower than the probability of finding another girlfriend.
I don't know about probabilities, but I do know, we all know, because we see another domainers always sharing on X, for example, that people sell the domain.
And then someone pay full price, even worse, not stop the LTO, pay the full price for the domain.
And after a few years, they drop the domain.
The domain got deleted and the seller took again or hand registered again the domain and sell it twice.
It's happened many times.
Those one-offs do happen.
Admittedly, they do happen.
But you can't base your strategy based on one-offs and the exceptions, right?
Oh, no.
It's not a strategy.
But it's something that you cannot control.
Like I said earlier on, like Andre was saying, you have a portfolio, it's law of averages, right?
Any single sale is luck and random and unique in its own way but if you're if you want to build your strategy you have to have a solid strategy based
on you know what happens most likely right when when when when the the the lto stop it from that
domain um when they stop at the payment uh i i didn't really get happy.
This is not the war actually, but then I realized that I should
price it more and I think it was about
$1,500 a sale
and then after that
I just priced it about $4,000
the domain so you to understand
how big the difference was.
So sometimes
it's good if they stop paying.
I'm not saying that you're wrong
there in that specific one exception but like ideally that price that dimension would price
at 4 000 from the start right that's what i'm saying also uh speaking on making decisions based
on what you see on x yeah of course you see instances of the weirdest things happening on
x and don't make and don't get me wrong they do happen but the other question to
ask is how many domains do people on x who post on x frequently have collectively so obviously over
uh if you have a sample of i don't know collectively millions of domains then the
strangest things in the world are gonna happen but as arif said i think he was spot on with this
these are such outliers that really you cannot make a strategy.
It's like lottery.
It's like lottery, right?
After all, every year someone is winning the mega billions or the power ball.
But how many people is playing for that?
You know, so yeah, I understand.
You can't plan your life, but you're going to win a big lottery.
That's exactly what You can't plan your life that you're going to win a big lottery. That's exactly right.
It sounds weird, but let me work with your lottery analogy and say that statistically, probabilistically speaking, playing the lottery doesn't make any sense.
The odds are so stacked against you that it makes zero sense.
And then someone can come and he can say, I think you're wrong, Andrei.
I think you're stupid.
I'm going to sell my house, buy lottery tickets and become a multimillionaire. And you know what?
It's not impossible. Maybe that person wins the lottery, becomes a millionaire and then laughs
at me. But the reality is that even if it's possible, and even if that person actually won
the lottery and became a millionaire after selling his home and spending it all on lottery tickets, it doesn't mean that selling your home
and buying lottery tickets is a good strategy. Even the strangest things can happen, but the
important thing is to make data-driven decisions so as to actually have the strategy you've
mentioned. I'm sorry we couldn't give you kind of the perfect strategy, but more like general, you know, an overview of how to navigate so as to figure out what works best for you.
And kind of as an answer to Brady's question, I think Arif is right when he mentions, you know, that you do want to extract, you want to milk each sale as much as you can because, you know, we're in this to make money at the same time, LTO
is such a great option that it, because it enables you to get buyers that you normally
couldn't, you know?
So to give you an example, if you have a domain priced at 2,500 and you have it, and
if you sell it through LTO as in five months for 500 per month, then, you know, 500 per month is still
a lot of money to a lot of companies. And so it's not really opening you up to lower budget buyers.
Whereas if you do it at 100 per month in two years, you can have defaults. But at the same
time, the domain, you know, let's face it,
statistically speaking, the overwhelming majority of our domains will not be sold in our lifetime.
That's just the nature of the game. But I think it's all about finding the right balance between
having LTOs low enough so as to gain access to a pool of buyers you wouldn't have access to otherwise,
while at the same time, not shooting yourself in the foot, and ultimately earning less revenue due
to default rates and whatnot. So I think that the SaaS, you know, business model, it has legs,
but it's just kind of like a balancing act. And also within a portfolio, it's going to matter,
you know, you can look at a name name and you have these subcategories.
You have names that work well for, you know, personal blogs or hobby websites or whatever.
So for those, having an LTO even below $100 a month makes perfect sense.
Even if you have to go with long time periods, I think it's going to be an interest experiment.
I'm going to play with it for some of these domains that you, I think you mentioned
120 months, so 10 years for certain domains, like these blog type domains or whatever,
for which the pool of buyers is usually not very well funded. It makes super perfect sense and it's
worth testing. Where on the other hand, if you have super high end finance names with cost per clicks and the two digit area, then obviously
in that case, you're probably not going to want to have your LTO price, uh, uh,
below a hundred.
So at the end of the day, it's kind of just like with any tool it's, it's up to
you to kind of figure out for which subset of your portfolio it works and how to go about it personally i'm
going to try unstoppable because i have my pet peeves with after nick and the 60 day rule and
i don't want to get started on after nick now so i will use it personally for sure
but andre let me ask you something if in a city there are two car agencies car dealerships where
In a city, there are two car agencies, car dealerships, where one is offering to the buyers a down payment for the car and then installments.
And the other one is asking for no down payment.
Which agency you think will sell more cars in a month?
It depends on if you ask me just this, which agency will sell more cars in a month, I can
confidently say that the second agency will sell two cars in a month, more cars in a month,
because the price is low. But I don't think that's the question you should be asking.
What you should be asking, in my opinion, is which agency will make more money. And that's a
more difficult question to answer, because the agency which sells without a down payment will have probably a very high rate of delinquency, is going to have a lot of people who try to game the system and kind of steal the one that makes more money so to answer your question yeah but it's not a matter of closing more deals whether it's selling more domains or
selling more cars in your example but rather which strategy enables you to
make more money and kind of that's where things get tricky and why it's important
to have this balancing act of sorts but you don't think that they don't think
that they it's revenue overall right that they. It's profit and revenue overall, right?
Like sometimes people say, okay, well, look, this domain, nobody, he's
accurately said, right?
Most of our domains will never have a second seller, right?
If a 1% sell through means your domains, each domain sells once every
hundred years on average, right?
So you all look at it that way.
However, you know, I bet what Brady was saying before is like, well, what else can you do with that domain? And you're not making
money from it. You can make some money from it. But like a clearer example would be, okay,
well, I have a domain. I have it priced at $5,000, right? And I get an offer for $1,000 coming in.
And people go, and I go, no. People go, well, why wouldn't you sell that? That's $1,000 in your
pocket. But it's not about, it's not about what that would do.
It's a question of what do I think the possibility is of closing that sale at $4,000, right?
And if one out of two times, I can close it at $4,000, well, that means I would have made $2,000 for similar domains at $1,000 when I say yes, or $4,000 if I say no, right? Just selling one domain.
So which is better? Well, in this case I'm giving, it's the $4,000 obviously, but it's never exactly
the same. Every domain is a little bit different. Some of them you might want to be a little bit
more lenient on your pricing. Again, you got to know your domains, you got to know the portfolio,
you got to know the business, you got to to all these little things come into play where it's never the exact answer every
single time.
But, you know, what he's saying before, it's exactly what it is.
It's not about how many sales you make.
Sell-through rate is a meaningless number without the accompanying, you know, average
multiple that you sell it at, right?
Sell-through rate can only be used as a metric when you have the average selling price.
And you also compare with your holding costs of all the domains you don't sell right and so that's why it's important but like
at the end of the day as you said profit is what matters right it's the amount of profit that you
make and sometimes you can make more profit by selling less domains if you price them more
strategically and sometimes it's the opposite right you got to know your domains you got to
price them properly that's the most important thing in this business. And even worse is that domains are very wishy
in terms of evaluation, right? One buyer could legitimately value a domain five times more than
another buyer based on their business plan. And they'll both be right. And they'll both be
accurate. It's just that sometimes you got to get lucky to get that one with a bigger vision
or a bigger plan or bigger, bigger pockets to put in initial funding that they value that business higher and therefore can justify spending more for that domain.
It's all about profit.
Yeah.
And obviously, you know, if you take our term limit to the max and you're doing 10 year terms on your domains, you might run into a problem.
Like the average, it takes the average startup, I don't know, a year and a half, two years
to fail.
It takes the average startup seven plus seven to 10 years to IPO.
If you're doing an LTO over the course of 10 years, then you're very likely going to see the, you know,
actual use of that domain go out of style
before the full LTO ends.
And so you're not getting the full price out of it
because, you know, that business will have, you know,
been born and died all on the term.
That's why, exactly.
That's why the type of business also matters. It's not it's
not the same rule for all of them. Like if you have a political domain, let's say like, I own
like America votes 2026, right? Well, I can't put that on a five year LTO, right? Because I know the
person is going to default in 2027. Right? So like, that's a really clear example. But I mean,
you know, it's a really got to keep in context what the business is, what the probabilities are,
and it is no right or wrong answer.
It's just good to have the options.
Like you giving us the ability to choose what we want.
I think that's the best we can ask for, right?
Exactly right.
Well, guys, a very rich discussion today.
I appreciate both of you two coming up and Andre for being here and giving us a ton of detail as usual.
coming up and Andre for being here and giving us a ton of detail as usual. Yeah, I mean, we are
hot on the track of just giving you guys as many options and as many tools at your disposal as
humanly possible. And yeah, there's just a lot of good stuff coming down the pipe. So LTO,
like I mentioned, should be live next week. We've got new landers with probably these social links
for you as well, also deploying quite soon.
You should see listing from an external registrar
go live soon as well.
So that means you can list for sale
at Unstoppable Domains without transferring in
and get exposure to,
our unique set of crypto and tech buyers,
as well as making those listings visible on OpenSea
and Magic Eden and some other Web3 marketplaces,
which just goes to illustrate some of the composability
that tokenizing these domains and these listings gives
you is being able to automatically plug and play into external marketplaces similar to how
syndication via Afternic works except in a Web3 context. What else do we have? We've got
what are your current promotions? You haven't mentioned those since I got on.
What are your current promotions?
You haven't mentioned those since I got on.
I know that's right.
I'm not shilling as hard today,
but today is $5 Friday.
So you can get dot coms for $5 each up to 100 of them
for the next, let's see, eight hours.
You can get $5.coms.
Of course, many of you are already in our Domainer Club, which gets you $5.coms any
day of the week. That's for serious domainers only. And then besides that, we have our transfer
deal, which gives you roughly $365.55.com transfers. So that's a ton of savings that you can have right off the bat. You're not
going to find more generous deals elsewhere. And if you guys have maxed out those $360,
$5.55 transfers, let me know and we can talk about increasing those limits. We'll probably
increase them across the board for people quite soon soon and that also applies to all of our uh transfers so you know com org net ai whatever
it is all of them are basically five dollars and 55 cents off and you can see that on our pricing
page if you go to our home page and then scroll at the bottom, you'll see our pricing page and you can see each of the individual TLD pricing.
So, guys, that's it for today. Thank you, everyone, for the rich conversation.
It was great to get some feedback on Landers. Jack, thank you for your questions and drilling Andre, trying to pin him for that answer. How do we scale up our portfolio? Andre still simply would not give it to us,
but we got some great information out of him regardless.
Andre, I really appreciate your wisdom.
And just to close with a funny fact for Andre
that say that the lottery is not a strategy.
There is a guy, an old guy already 83 years old uh holocaust survivor
which won 14 times the lottery with a strategy because he was a mathematician his name is stefan
mandel you can check it out it's a great story so he ha he by by using mathematics he find out
that he can just uh can't win the lottery as much as he wants so he he just
did that so it is possible to win many times as a strategy the lottery but there are 8 billion
people on the planet don't forget 8 billion people on the but not not not not the 8 billion people
are are smart enough that's why there is not enough enough billionaires
wow have a great weekend good to meet you jack take care i'll have to study up on mandel here
i can tell you over the years there have been some lotteries where the uh the numbers were generated um through computers like i know there was a, well, from the Montreal casino,
when they first got Keno in,
the numbers were generated electronically.
And it was a loop.
They were feeding the random number generator
with the date or something.
Yeah, there's somebody's able to select, yeah,
but that's not random, right?
That's somebody who's sitting around them.
So, you know, there are ways to beat systems,
but there's other times when it's not, right? That's somebody who's sitting around them. So, you know, there are ways to beat systems, but there's other times when it's not right. I mean, if you're putting walls in
that tube thing, it's going to come out randomly. But I just want to get back to saying like,
I really appreciate what you guys were discussing with Andre earlier on. I really recommend people
who are especially new to the industry, go back to the beginning, listen to what Andre says,
not just about the numbers, actually specifically the other things that he was talking about.
About things are not always predictable.
And there's randomness.
And you have to deal with the personal stuff.
That stuff is really important.
And we often overlook it.
So I really recommend you guys do that.
And thanks for having me.
Where you were hiding, Andres?
So long.
I am in the industry many years.
And I'm following almost everyone and I never
hear about you before. Where you was hiding? Well it depends and I'm also running if you know my
YouTube channel One Minute Economics. I write books so for example if I have an economics book
lounge like I had with The Age of Anomaly which kind of got to the bestseller list and I ruined
my health to get it there then i only did that
publicly speaking so every now and then i have things that kind of occupy all of my time so my
public appearances in the domain space are kind of i guess hit or miss i think arif mentioned the
same thing because you know life happens and also to his point i I think, you know, whether it's the main idea here is that whether we are talking about outliers, like being super long lucky in the lottery, or outliers, like being super smart, being so amazingly smart that you can that you can find out a small inaccuracy in the system and exploit it.
You can find out a small inaccuracy in the system and exploit it.
These are amazing stories.
I think there's a movie on it.
I haven't seen it, but the guy from Malcolm in the Middle, I think, plays the guy.
I should see the movie.
But they make for great stories, but bad strategies for the average person.
A good strategy, in my view, has to be boring.
It has to be predictable.
It's kind of like the education system.
You cannot organize an education system just for geniuses because practically nobody is a genius.
So the education system needs to be somewhat something for the average person to give the
average person, let's say a good, a good shot at light, so to speak. And I think that's a pretty
good, that's a pretty good takeaway from, from the show. It's possible possible but i would personally recommend to everyone watching us to just keep it boring you you were under the radar
but not anymore my friend now i follow you and and i think many many more will also follow you
well you can find him here every week so come heckle and ask good questions and uh andre is
happy to share much more wisdom i just looked
up mendel it's like the most dissatisfying story ever the guy just like looks for uh lotteries
where there's like three times as many as much jackpot as there is the price of all the possible
combinations it's like literally just positive ev calculation so there's your there's your government run
lotteries uh you know protecting your tax dollars for you right there yes they didn't allow him to
come back to israel but now he's fighting for that oh i see fascinating you know you you you
you stole from us we are the only ones that can steal from people, the government say.
Exactly, exactly.
No one knows what the other way around.
If you want for another day,
I also have my personal stories about cheating the system.
I went, no, I didn't win lotteries,
but I win many draws.
So that's for another day.
Yeah, for another day.
Well, guys, I i mean some good sobering
discussion you really should internalize what andre is telling you there's no magic bullet
uh there's a lot of randomness there's a lot of uncertainty in the domain game uh but you can't
make sense of it if you're willing to be diligent uh and you're willing to you know really scrutinize
your strategy day by day
and do the hard work.
So with that, I will leave you guys.
Have a fantastic $5 Friday.
Stop in and get some hand regs
while you still can this Friday.
And we will talk to you again next week.
Bye guys. Það er það er það.
