GMGM, thank you for joining us here this morning. We're gonna start the show here in just a few minutes. We'll give it a few reflux to filter in. Get our speakers up on stage while we wait. Here are some tunes.
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Good morning and welcome to the Lucky Lead. Today is Wednesday.
May 24th. It's a beautiful 70 degree and sunny day here in Chicago. The Bitcoin bulls are bearing their horns. They are everywhere they cannot be ignored. We are reluctantly diving in on today's show. Also, art keeps moving. Ledger
back tracks. There's a lot to break down. I see some friendly faces out there listening. Huda, Bill, Alex, Woody. Thanks for joining us. As a reminder for any new listeners out there, we do run this show every weekday Monday to Friday at 10 a.m. Eastern. It's a 30 minute show covering all the major news in crypto.
and in a T's. The show is meant for those interested in discovering the space, those actively buying and selling in the crypto and in a T markets and those here just doing research. I'm your host Tyler D and I'm joined this morning by my amazing co-host and we've got a full house. We've got Emily loves crypto, a web 3 security expert in
co-founder of the foolproof app. We've got Logan, Hitchcock, Edder, and Chief over at Lucky Trader. Reppin the Lucky Trader account. He's a tennis addict. Distracted a bit this morning by multiple tournaments. Got Ghost, content star over at Lucky Trader. He's quiet. Well, dipping his toes in AI Reppin. That new
Banger, Opep and PFP. Pretty timely. We saw another all-time high sale right before the show. So Ghost got in good on that one. And today we've also got CT. She's a writer and producer for Web3 companies. Our resident Bitcoin NFT, Whisperer, and I had the pleasure of meeting her in person in Indianapolis at VCon.
last week. C. T. Good morning. How are you doing? Hey, what's up Tyler excited to talk about Bitcoin NFTs. I loved your newsletter this morning. It was awesome. Well, thank you for that C. T. and same goes back to you on your ledger and security topic. So we will definitely hit that. So on the docket today, what are we talking
about. We're going to talk about Bitcoin and our tea blasting off. Maybe some Bitcoin Miami takes here from Liz. She's up, going to be up on stage with us here shortly. We're going to talk ledger delays. Jack butcher keeps cooking, shacking and sued, plus all the news. Before we dive in ghosts, any housekeeping items for today?
Yeah, as always, Tyler does a great recap of the NFC space every morning in the morning minute newsletter as C.T. Just mentioned. So we've got that pins at the top. Make sure you subscribe to that. And then we've got C.T.s newsletter pinned at the top too. Make sure you give that a subscribe as well. She's covering the NFT market and the broader crypto space. So great information there for you to follow. Support#
we can get. All right folks, well, let's dive into our first topic today. Bitcoin becomes the second biggest blockchain for NFTs. If you spend any time on crypto Twitter or NFT Twitter this week, you've seen Bitcoin NFT and ordinal talk. It is all over the timeline. I mean, we had this early boom back
February when Ornals first came on the scene, it was the Wild West, but now it seems that this Bitcoin anti-movement is starting to permeate through the the ETH native NFT audience. So the question now is this hype real or just a fat? I want to explore a little bit about what's been
happening and some of these drivers and then hear from our speakers. So first, what's been happening? A few recent headlines that have caught the market's attention. One, Bitcoin NFTs are second and 30-day total NFT trading volume with $170 million in sales that's only behind the Ethereum
block chain, which is done about 390 million. So they've done about 50% slightly less than ETH, but the coin's done over 3x, what Solana has done in an empty volume, which is the third place block chain. So they are solidly, squarely in second place, in the past week two of the top three
three products by volume with crypto slams, wash trading data removed, our Bitcoin project spacepeppes and the Bitcoin frogs, which we've combined for over 13 million volume. Then those daily ordinal inscriptions, the inscriptions just keep ramping up. Back in March, we were seeing three to 4,000 per day.
Now we're seeing 200,000 to 400,000 per day as the total number of ordinals is Approaching 9 million it might have actually broken overnight. It was pretty close when I last checked this is an addition to some of the splash Action we saw from major brands like you
and Bugatti who have chosen to drop projects on Bitcoin. So it feels like momentum is building. So why is this happening? I think one big reason for me is the infrastructure. So infrastructure to support NFT trading on Bitcoin is being developed rapidly. Again, back
in February, it was the Stone Age and CT can attest. I want to hear her firsthand story more later. People were trading NFTs tracked on spreadsheets. They were sending seed phrases to middlemen to do transactions and just praying that they would either get an NFT or some Bitcoin back. Now we've got several new walled options. We've got Magic Eden launching a Bitcoin
market place along with a launch pad. I feel like the how-to guides, the educational materials are popping up left and right. And that's making it easier for those who are, you know, Bitcoin amateurs curious to start dipping in their toes. And that's what I'm seeing in the chest that I'm in. I think another interesting aspect of Bitcoin
NFTs is this concept called "satributes" which I picked up from Leonidas on the spaces with Darren last week. NFTs on Bitcoin are all described directly onto Satoshi's which are the lowest in nomination of Bitcoin. This provides an additional provenance
option for NFTs on Bitcoin beyond just the NFTs characteristics. So a few examples of variables, the toshies that a Bitcoin and a T could be minted on. So those stats tied to the 10,000 Bitcoin involved in the Bitcoin pizza transaction. That was all over the news this week. You could have a Bitcoin
NFT on a sat that was owned in mind by Bitcoin founder Satoshi Nakamoto. And then there's also just the oldest sat. So there's other ones that had picked up in value. And I think the bottom line is it adds a new level of collectibility. So now that we've said this, this intro, I think that the last question is, should you care?
And I think at a minimum, it's time to pay attention to what's happening if you aren't already. But at the same time, I don't feel like anyone needs to rush out and buy a bunch of Bitcoin NFTs right now. I mean, several that I've tracked over the past week on Matt.
are down 30 to 50 percent. And frankly, I think many of the projects look pretty low effort. We're seeing a lot of animal-based PSPs with orange backgrounds or derivative of ETH and FTs. We can do better.
better than that, but I think that the trend is here and it will pay off to start getting ready for when good projects actually are launched on Bitcoin. So that's my spiel. I want to hear from our speakers now. I think CTI
I'm gonna tee you up first, you were early to the Bitcoin and MT movement. I think very early, you know, perhaps like first 500. So I'm curious, how are you feeling? Is it what are your thoughts on why we're seeing this kind of explosion and interest?
I think during that time in early February, I quote unquote minted, which is basically like, you claim inscriptions that are already done somehow, and they get sent to you. I've minted like a couple of them. Got lucky on a couple, but right now I still have, I think, a bunch of them in different separate electrom wallets.
are not even really built for ordnance anymore and I think still need a middleman to get out maybe. So the reason I haven't looked back on those is because I don't know how to get them out of the wallet. I'm really not going to lie. Some of the communities though that are like, you know, sub 10k inscriptions, they are, you know, running, allowless, skibberways, sort of like a
I think it's a theory that a team did or still do and trying to build communities around it, especially because there's so many different inscription groups. The sub 10k is trying to be the main community for most of those. I think it's remains to be seen if that even matters because we had
12 will come out other valuable the quenna of teas that aren't in the first 10 p inscriptions. I think for me personally if I'm going to buy anymore, I'm not sure I would mess with any that aren't in that block because it's just like too risky and too out there for me, but yeah
Yeah, I think the reason I got into it in the first place is because canto and a tease are one thing, but these are on a tease on Bitcoin. People care about Bitcoin. They care about Bitcoin and they care about Ethereum. That is why I didn't ignore it, but BRC 20s, they're making up a huge amount of those inscriptions as well.
And so that whole world kind of confused me. I feel like a two DGEN even for me, but people have seen a lot of success, you know, DGEN into those as well. Yeah, so there's kind of two aspects of what's happening. There's more than two. I think I've seen classifying this for, but to keep things simple, there's more of the NFTs
that are more of our traditional entities, with JPEGs that we expect. And then there's the BRC20s, which is kind of similar to, in concept, to ERC20s, it's like the Bitcoin version of meme coins. But a significant difference is that each of them are
And I'm going to botch their inscribed specifically on Satoshi's which makes their trading a little bit different than trading coins as we know it on the Ethereum network. So I don't know that we're going to get into detail on those significantly a part of that volume that we've seen is from the BRC 20.
I do think we need to take these volume numbers with a grain of salt that the Bitcoin meme coin trading is effectively bumping up this and it's not just those projects. I will say, like there are definitely a few dashboards you can see like those text-based inscriptions because the DBSC or text-based inscriptions are basically JSON file.
the people are describing. Anyways, you can see they make up a huge amount of them. And so when I see tweets being like, just hit 8 million inscriptions, just hit 9 million. I'm like, okay, I guess I don't really know if that's a great metric. Yeah, I didn't agree. It is mostly just showing interest
and activity, I'd say above anything else. It goes, maybe I'll tee you up. You're still a fairly active trader for ETH NFTs. Has the Bitcoin movement caught your attention? Are you looking at any projects on like Magic Eden or what you're taking on what we've seen here in the past week?
I mean, I probably should be looking. I feel like it's definitely a movement. I still feel like I have my head in the sand a little bit when it comes to that. And it's hard to track when like we mentioned, there's not a lot of like, I feel like most of us are watching blur or open sea dashboards and I'm not really seeing the Bitcoin stuff.
top of mind. So I'm just not paying a ton of attention to it, but I do think that it is here to stay. And I think kicks yesterday on the Nifty Morning Show had a really good point where he's like, this isn't like a canto or another like emerging chain. Like this is Bitcoin, like the biggest cryptocurrency in the world. So like, it's probably something that's worth paying attention
to. And it will be interesting to see what type of projects develop on there because I like you guys mentioned with the BRC like I'm not super interested in anything like that and the ones that are just minting like a million different words in the blockchain. But I do think that there will be some serious new projects that probably emerge and those are the ones to pay attention
to not like the random copycats that are getting minted on there. Yeah, so I think I agree and I disagree with kicks there. So is Bitcoin bigger than canto? Yes, of course. Is the broader movement going to be bigger? Yes. But whether the same is the
the quality of projects that we're seeing. If you look at what's trending on the Magic Eden Board and I put it in the newsletter this morning, I mean these are trash projects. I'm sorry. And if you caught a cook and you minted and you got a great flip, that's awesome.
But I think I don't buy that what's turning right now will be relevant even in the Bitcoin entity space in three months. So I would encourage folks to tread carefully out there. Emily, you've had your hand up and I'll go back to CT.
Yeah, I just think Bitcoin ordinals are in a funny space because since they came out people have been saying is this just a flash on the pan and it's been going on for months at this point so I think it's probably over
that. I think that, you know, Bitcoin, Bitcoin, Maxis in general, are divided on ordinals. But I think that there is a large portion of people that trust the Bitcoin blockchain over anything else.
and having the ability to put content and data on it in addition to just financial transactions. In the answers that throw us in us, I don't think it's going away. Yeah, no, I agree with that. You know, at a foundational level, CT, you hit your hand up some additional thoughts.
Yeah, I would say like, you know, you say that a lot of the, you know, collections aren't great right now and definitely see that. I think, you know, when it comes to stuff like canto or, you know, any of those kind of emerging things, they have smart contracts. So inscriptions are kind of weird because like you people just inscribed bunch of stuff together, or they try
have it as together as possible. They're not always in the same grouping and then they call it a collection and then they hand them out. So for example, you could have a project that like the first two are in the first 10k inscriptions and then the rest of them are in like the two million. So I see that a lot. If you were trying to use
as a marketing gimmick. And all these communities are trying to establish themselves, but it's kind of hard. I don't know, it's kind of weird to do that, but it's also kind of addicting because it is so Wild West and Djang's love that. Yeah, I mean, it's addicting to be early and it feels like we might have an adjunct
I've been trying to think like what's the analogy to what stage of the ETH NFT market is Bitcoin right now? It feels earlier than 2021. Maybe it's 2017, ETH NFTs, I think we're going to speedrun that four years, I don't think it's
to take four years for the Bitcoin movement to get to where like 2021 was, but we're not there yet. I mean, can you name five good projects, CT on Bitcoin? Like I'll pop my head. I don't really want to pump the bags because I think the like Discord I was in was like pretty early to one. So
It would be very obvious if I mentioned five good projects, but no, I mean, I'm honestly to be honest, I'm not deeply involved in one community or another. I think what I like to focus on is that sub 10k discord, which grossly grants rules for people that have like a sub 10k interruption.
I think a lot of people early to Bitcoin and FTs were also ENS Maxis who wanted the three-digit ENS names. I don't know how those are doing now, right? Or if anyone cares about the first six NFTs in the script on Ethereum or first 10K, right? So just think about that, I guess, for the future. I mean, I'm still trying
I'm not totally buying like the historical value. They'll be valuable to some people. I bet against the broader public. But Logan, I want to get your thoughts on what goes on. And I want to get Liz up. And I want to hear her first hand story from Bitcoin Miami. So so Liz get ready. But Logan, go ahead.
Yeah, I just wanted to comment on the project piece that you're just talking about and asking, you know, are there any notable projects? I think it's gotten lost a little bit because the degeneracy recently with the BRC 20s and stuff, but of course, you know, you got did launcher project on Bitcoin, Frank DeGaz did launch a
project on Bitcoin. These are notable enough teams where if you're not ready to undertake the level of risk that comes with some of the technical stuff or literally the financial risk as well, you can sort of just keep your
to the ground on some of those notable collections and ETH projects or ETH people that have started transition or create projects elsewhere. And those are likely going to be, and I'm speculating of course, but likely going to be slightly better right
within the myriad of projects that are just coming out that are like, you know, Bitcoin, this animal, Bitcoin that. So maybe that's a little bit of a better starting place than just completely square one. I would agree, but CT says no. She was given the thumbs down. We'll circle back to her in a few ghosts, some thoughts on your end.
TT if you want to respond directly to that, you get jump ahead of me here. I was just saying, I'm, I have said before in the spaces, I don't really understand like people that are like deep into multi-chain. You know, Entry to Monkey is, Pudge is our, you know, D-guides are like, I love that for them, but as a
I don't really care if I have a version of it, I'm Bitcoin. I feel like maybe 12 fold a little bit different, but in my opinion, I think some of the, you know, ordinal, native, or Bitcoin native, and if tease, might have a better chance in the long run.
it's very difficult and very degenerate because you have to bet on a bunch of horses, right? And so that's the challenging part. If you're looking for an easy entry, maybe go with the Ethereum one, but also they're pretty expensive. So I don't like to buy into things that are that expensive except for my squiggle. That was the only thing. Yeah, I should clarify because I totally
agree with you there that you shouldn't hop onto those projects just because they have projects on the other chain. I don't think the on chain monkey thing is going to be as as pumped up as the Twitter feed would lead you to believe. But I think those are good places to at least pay attention if you're looking for information or source gathering or like
How do you get started? Some of those maybe more established brands as thought leaders is that the right way to characterize it, probably not. But just a place that feels more comfortable than just diving into that wild west that it feels like right now. - Yeah, logical take, ghost, get your thoughts and then one of your stackable for less.
Yeah, I think that those are all great points and I think that the a good project on Bitcoin is going to sneak up on a lot of people because we've been kind of conditioned during this bear market to like be skeptical of a lot of these crappy projects and so it's really hard for new projects at all to get any traction because everyone just assumes it's kind of a rug pole or a scam here. So I do think it's going to sneak up on someone when#
someone really talented or an innovative project launches on Bitcoin here. But on a personal note, I've found it hard, like every time I look at Magic Agent or starting to look at ordinals, I find it a lot harder still mentally to trade or to use my Bitcoin to buy NFTs. Like I feel like it was it was a gradual thing to kind
of look at ETH and just be like, "Oh yeah, this is like something that I'm going to start trading with and look at it more as money." And I still look at Bitcoin as like that digital gold investment. And it's a lot harder for me to touch that stash than it is for my ETH right now. Like digging into your savings to buy JPEGs, it definitely does feel a little different. I appreciate that commentary. I want#
here. So Liz, if you're not familiar, she runs awesome spaces in Spanish. She is bringing the news to a Spanish audience. She's based in Miami. I believe that she was able to go to Bitcoin Miami. So Liz would love to hear how your experience was, what the vibes were like and maybe any takeaways.
Hey Tyler, BD everyone. Yeah, I was down here and I saw you kept posting about Vcon and I was like wait a minute, I need you to know that VTC 2023 was actually happening guys. There was a BTC builders, builders conference on
Wednesday, the Shitcoin conference on Wednesday, an ordinal's conference on Thursday alongside a WTC 2023, and all of them had a lot of people. Mostly people that were traveling from out of town, not a lot of locals, and Miami has a really deep
So I was surprised about that, but people were really building ordinal. So I happened to be, oh well, wannabe, tap wizard. So we were out there definitely deep supporting beauty. Definitely took over the stage. They were everywhere with the wizard tats supporting.
I felt it, but mostly you saw people really building. There were a lot of products being shown of BTC builders, like people were really trying to make this a global thing and it wasn't just the fun part of it, but institution banks, the educational part, the art part of it.
people doing things on BTC that kind of let you know like hey people are building it is the future it's not going anywhere. Or the nose aren't going anywhere. So it was a very positive vibe. The happy hours were amazing. What else can I tell you about the happy hours? The de-god ones was probably one of the better ones.
And then there was a BTC after party which was thrown at Oasis and they hired a DJ and it was almost like a little like free rave. So the vibes were definitely happening. Awesome. That's great to hear. The taproot wizards feel like one of the biggest
projects communities, I don't know what the right word is, that I saw them in NFT and YC, clearly they are building and growing. Did you go to the shit coin comments? Was it how to launch a shit coin or what was that discussion about?
No shakones were chilled. You know it was just people building projects actually on Ethereum or on BTC and just I'm getting started. It was more like a workshop if you ask me and there was drinks and there was food and people talking but it was more of a meetup of people that are just kind of like into shakones or
have new projects coming up. That's good to know. I'm curious maybe the same question that we threw to the speakers on stage was I'm curious have you been following the any Bitcoin entities from a market perspective? Are you thinking about buying and you're just kind of watching on the sidelines right now kind of what's your current view?
actually got thrown into the taproot wizards because one of my friends got um was like hey let's uh go to this party and I'll teach you all about it you should know since you're like all into eat and salana so um just really fell into it and I got approved to go to their party we had to like hurry up and get wizard outfits and well you know me once
I had to go and get a bunch of wizard stuff and then get in there and realize how kind of Coltie was and I loved it. So now I don't know exactly where I am because I'm doing the quest. I did the whole pack my bag. I showed up to the... I've been doing everything. I got the pin to
I don't know exactly what I'm doing with the top of wizards. I wouldn't say that I'm just standing on the sidelines anymore like I was and on chain monkey was there. I heard you guys speaking of them and actually managed to get a white listed for that. It's excited and then or games was there. So I don't know what I'm doing really with BTC but I'm getting in
involved in setup a wallet and realize also someone told me not to worry about the lower inscription numbers that some of those aren't really going to matter in the future until you know value more the project. So I would see tea on that one. Well, I think that's good advice. Right. Just you know, find and do some boots on the ground research find a community you vibe with and then
get set up with the infrastructure right and then just get ready to make a move if you want to. So definitely appreciate that Liz is deep in the taproot wizard's cult now. You can find her with a wizard hat and her PFP here in the next few days. I'm just waiting for it. Well Liz thanks for your thoughts. We were running deep into the
show. So folks, we got to hit the headlines. Today's top news powered by Lucky Trader. Trade volume was again over 13,000 teeth on Tuesday as the PFP market saw a mix of red and green while art continued its upswing. Our blocks speaking of continue to surge on Tuesday with the mid-tier
in low tier collection, saying a 20-30% bob led by anti-cyclones and the harvest. Ledger made major headlines with the post-poment of its recovered launch after community backlash, also sharing that it will now be open source, audible, and they'll publish an accompanying white paper. Blur added Pudgy Pinkwins to their Blend Pro
yesterday as new daily additions continue this week. Pudges did run up on the news to about 6.2 before falling back to 5.5 in the minutes to come. Jack Putcher is first three checks elements auctions at Christie's closed yesterday fetching 13th, 28th and 17th respectively.
for Earth, air, and water. So about 50 eat in total sales. The Bitcoin bears will be the first 10k collection to launch on Magic Eden's ordinal launch pad with launch details coming soon. In that first, our moving chain moving on chain in the community led initiative while also sharing news of their collab with lows. We had them on the
show yesterday. Campy Pan does launch its first ever TREATPAC murdered out with a raffle giveaway on ppdex.io. Patrick Amidon launched a new innovative art collection in doppelganger and we heard some rumors of a ringga game coming this Friday along with the meme coin from meme land.
coming in June. In Web 3 and crypto news, crypto did fall in a day, Bitcoin down 2% at 26,700, ETH down 2% at 1815, Pepe down 6% at 620 million market cap. Another news, Shaq is facing a class action lawsuit for his role in the Astrols NFT project, which is being claimed
as an unredistored security. And then blockchain move and earn apps stepping is the first Web 3 app to successfully integrate Apple Pay into its platform. That was a mouthful. A lot of headlines to unpack there. Ghost logo. Anyone, any of those headlines that caught your eye. Ghost, maybe I'll see you at first.
Yeah, I thought the price action around Pudgy's getting launched on Blur was pretty interesting. Not sure if the front running has just gotten so strong that it's a non-issue now or it's just not going to move the market that much. That's probably healthier overall. So it's nice to see some stabilized
movement there. And then I thought the Shaq class action lawsuit was really interesting. I'm curious to hear from you Tyler or maybe Logan if you know what was different about the Astral's NFT project than any other NFT project that that caused it to be a security. I think that's my concern as well.
And what precedent this might say. I haven't had a chance to dive in on this one. I think the news broke late last night. But yeah, I don't know that there's much they did different. I think they're making claims of what the project team was promising.
the fact that the people who bought it were expecting value increases based on Shaxx presence and the management of the founders there, which is a pretty similar argument that you can make about almost every NFT project.
It kind of feels like we're all about to get a Gary Gensler sending us on OpenCA, see some desist on registered security note on the block. Yeah, so don't love seeing these, but of course, you know, anyone can file a lawsuit about anything. So we'll see what the what the courts have to say. Logan, you've had to hand up a couple thoughts.
Yeah, I don't know too much about the the shack piece. It feels like one of these very typical. We've seen it happen a couple other times class action suits when the you know the project founder is just of notable regard. So I can dig into that more. I thought that Patrick
Gamadon thing was awesome. I don't know how much people have gotten to take a look at that. We published a post on Lucky Trader this morning if you want to learn a little bit more about it. It started minting already, but opens it up. The contract didn't work with transient labs like opens up some potential
And just new use cases and different ways for people to deploy NFTs and necessarily deploy it's probably not the right word, but anyway, just read the post. It's super awesome. It comes right on the back of the rip cash thing from the day before and then also of course,
all the stuff that Jack butchers doing. We spend a lot of time talking about how boring this market has been with just regurgitated themes. And you have actual people who have been working on things for a long time starting to finally get to a point where they've worked on them long enough that we can actually finally see them. And so that's really, really, really fun.
for the entire market and all our all I agree I think some artists are really trying to drive at least the art space forward right now We've also got a cool new innovative art box security drop today, which we might talk about here in a few minutes Emily you've had your hand up some reactions to these headlines or additional ones
I can never get past the argument or the the station that like price should have gone up because celebrity was there. That doesn't make any sense in any other context.
I mean you have you have like the rare occurrences of items that are somewhat collectibles associated loosely to a celebrity right like things like Air Jordan's or whatever if those are like limited edition price goes up Michael Jordan right but at the same at the same time most of
the time when you buy a product you expect the price to go down and I just find that so weird naive response because no one is saying oh yes this price is definitely gonna go
people speculating narrative. So like I just I need to see that brought to as well because it just seemed so unreasonable. I'm with you and I think what's also unfortunate is the media is probably going to latch on to this because it's Jack and that's a huge
household name and now we're going to get more bad press. You know, Ruto, I want to welcome you to the stage. Thank you for requesting. I think this is your first time on the show. I know you from the daily alpha community. You have thoughts, reactions to any of the headlines that we've been talking about here.
Yeah, for sure. I mean, I came in a little late, but I was listening into the discussion on Ornals, which I wanted to touch on, but you know, I don't want to revert back to a topic we were just talking about. But in speaking on the whole shack thing, it's interesting because I remember exactly when that was minting. I mean, he went and like changed his PFT.
on Twitter to one and everything he wrote. He was on spaces. Yeah, he joined in on spaces. He was like co-hosting spaces for like Astrols and with his PFP change and telling everyone that he's not he's here for the long run. He's not going anywhere. You know, this
things going to take off and you know everyone should get excited about it. Granted, I'm in the same boat as Emily too, where like I'm a big proponent of like personal accountability when it comes to making financial like either investments or purchases or whatever it is. But I mean, the fact of the matter is that we've seen
that people with large influences can move markets. Like we understand that, we all work in the NFT space or crypto space. So we've seen that time and time again. And it's interesting because I think, and this is going to be bad for us, I think if they can
I believe he's also in a class action suit or not class action, but he's in a lawsuit as well because of crypto zoo and then coffeezilla covered it so I mean look we've all been waiting for regulations because Even if we may not want it to happen. I think there's just no way and at the NFT space as a whole and
can grow unless there is some level of regulation, but it's going to be interesting to see how it plays out. I think that's a great take. There's some pros and cons. Certainly the negative attention is going to be bad, but at the same time celebrity pump and dumps with false promises are also not great. Introducing some level
of consumer protection would probably be welcomed. So Kayla, I haven't known you, but I think you know Emily, maybe a few others. Welcome to the show. Do you have some additional thoughts on this? Hey, I love that we're talking about this. I haven't really thought about it from both sides until Emily kind of brought it up, but I have.
at the same time. So like as somebody who's been brought, web to clients and then like, how do I do this? Everyone else is. All of my famous friends are getting in and they're all really good photographers and all that. It was kind of like tough. And this is like 2021 to explain to them like, you're not popular or not.
you're not Snoop Dogg. So that was kind of an annoying thing to go through at the time is to be like yeah you're not you're not gonna be able to ride this hype train and they I won't hate to say this but they were looking to ride the hype train a little so what I was trying to do is be like you can do this but what you're gonna have to do is build a community and you're gonna have to go to discord#
these people and what they're buying is like you. And so they really didn't understand that. Just flat out. Web 3 Web 2 is super different. But then like to touch on what Emily said, we have really not given Web 2 a good idea of what we're looking for here. Like that was just me trying to do that
and they don't understand that. So in Web 2, when Shaq does a commercial, there's no market movements. Maybe you go by his shoes. Maybe you buy that shoe, but it's not moving markets, right? It might help their brand, but you're not going to see a dip in Tesla because someone sold their Tesla.
I think that's an interesting comparison for what Emily is saying and I think it's a lot of like the web to community using us and bringing in those like celebrities like Matt Damon and being like he's here and then Matt Damon being like I was low on cash quite literally. You know, okay, thanks man. Thanks, thanks Staples.
center so that it makes us look bad and it's very hard for me to talk to web2 investors and be like no you've got to come and you've got to make a discord but I think that's the only way we're going to work. I do agree with Emily and Routzo, like we have a new market here and it's a lot of our community height being like two dogs doing it. It's going to go well. We know very well#
it's going to happen now. So it's definitely a responsible financial decision, but at the same time, new people who come in, you can't go buying Snoop Dogg's NFT in the same way you'll buy Shack's sneakers or his NFT. That's why I think that's a very valid point. You made a lot of good points.
There's just a clear difference between celebrities who are coming in and are staying and continuing to show up and make connections with the community and tie-in versus ones who are coming, saying they're doing all those things and then dipping out immediately post-sale. So we will certainly see how this case progresses. This is going to be an important one to watch.
CT, if you're still with us, I'd love to get maybe you just quick reactions to the ledger recover post-pomant. This was one of the bigger headlines of yesterday. They're kind of doing a bit of an about phase, kind of recognizing that they may have made some mistakes you wrote about it. So I'd love to get maybe your quick thoughts. Yeah, sir.
my dog right now so it's kind of loud. I mean I got to tell end of the space yesterday where they have like 2000 people in there and they were talking you know about what happened with ledger recovery long story short you know folks were not happy that ledger announced a new product where it offers a recovery
service for your seed for it isn't that kind of requires obviously some centralization some KYC people were wondering you know are you going to get the government my information if they asked it for you like all these questions about it right so they held this space yesterday and they basically were like you know I understand your questions or concerns you know we're going to delay the product
But also, like, at the end, the guy was like, "Also, if you just wait, you know, and you just use the product, you'll see how it's great it is, and everyone's gonna forget about this." And I was like, "Oh, okay." I mean, he's probably right. But, you know, I don't think that's something I'm gonna be doing. It is an optional product. So I think#
I think alienate their original customer base and I think that bridge is likely burnt unless they make some bigger moves But the move to being open source definitely does help a bit You really think that people are gonna switch from their ledgers to like treasurer either or something like that even if it's an optional product that's the present to me
I mean, it's not up. The risk factor is I understood it is there now. They have opened up an API into digital devices. So whether or not I personally subscribe, there is now a new channel to perhaps have
back into more ledger devices. So that was my understanding of the risks that were being raised. I haven't used ledger anyways because the first time I tried to use one, it didn't work with my Mac and so I tried to fix it with the YouTube hack and I literally broke it open physically and then I thought that on my crypto was gone but then I realized
It wasn't a USB drive. It was just so I use a treasure anyways, but that's surprising to me. I guess we've got to read more about like that API thing you mentioned fantastic story and also the birds singing in your background are just amazing and I want to be where you're at CT. I wrote you had your hand up some thoughts on the the ledger situation.
Yeah, for sure. We had a space to the day where we had one of the members of Ledger on our spaces. So we were able to ask a couple questions and stuff like that. And I was also in a space. I had my buddy double there with me. And we both kind of brought up the idea like, Hey, we understand that you wanted to implement either a new suite or
products or maybe you thought this was viable for pre-existing consumers viewers, but we were like, "Why wouldn't you have just come out with a separate product where you could have that opt-in or opt-out function on a separate product?" So your existing consumers didn't
have to feel like they were pressured or had to go and take this route and use a piece of tech that might have a potential attack vector on it. So we brought it up and we're like why not just a separate product. And then obviously if you're a company coming out with the whole other product you have to go
the design process, you have to go through the distribution channels. So there's a lot of stuff that was probably a barrier or a hurdle for them that they just stopped themselves, okay, maybe let's just not go that route. But I mean, he pretty much made it pretty clear and I've read multiple threads on this. It is an opportunity to
up out function so like you can agree or not agree to having that downloadable onto your ledger for example but even then the mere fact that they're capable of attaching new kind of like attack vectors on your ledger with even if
they didn't have your permission, for example, again, you have to remember that there are other products out there that people can use. So I didn't really understand the huge uproar because Tyler, I feel like you and I both know, there's amount of people who talk about security and not your keys, not your crypto, this and that.
probably don't even own my manager or cold wallet. So at the end of the day, there's other products that you can use, treasure, arculous. There's just like a bunch of different stuff. So I would say if you don't like that idea, then just get a treasure or something. Yeah, I think that's very fair. I think ultimately it was a financial decision that led to
I don't know that it was a bad one. I think maybe their shareholders are happy with the move, even with some fallout. This is a product that they're trying to reach the masses with. I get the move. We'll certainly see how it seems to make it continues to track. We are over time, but this is some good discussion.
won't keep running. Oh, let's go Kayla and then CT. Oh, I want to say is that, you know, basically ledger just like in my opinion, they've created a backdoor for data in any capacity, just involving other people and as somebody who's been in this like, see a while, what if I wasn't in your my ledger or something and they made these decisions.
and I wasn't able to go get it. That's kind of why ledger existed. I'm curious if anyone agrees with that backdoor comment. That they've created a backdoor. Basically, yeah, I think that is the major concern. I think it's still very... I don't have clarity on the
How open the back door is for the opt-in versus opt-out. I don't know that letters really address all that well, but perhaps open sourcing the code will finally address it and folks will be able to see for themselves how all this works. I think that is an important move. CT, some additional thoughts.
This just goes back to our never-ending discussion around, you know, we want more people to enter the crypto NFT space, you know, to make a provider adoption and more clarity and all that stuff. But then a lot of people like they don't want to hold on to their own things. And I'm not saying it's right or wrong, like I kind of
I'm gonna get roasted this. I'm gonna get roasted this. I'm gonna get roasted this. I'm gonna get roasted this. I'm gonna get roasted this. I'm gonna get roasted this. I'm gonna get roasted this. I'm gonna get roasted this. I'm gonna get roasted this. I'm gonna get roasted this. I'm gonna get roasted this. I'm gonna get roasted this. I'm gonna get roasted this. I'm gonna get roasted#
I'm just like, I guess, yeah, I guess I don't know if I didn't opt into it and I just wouldn't opt in or use something else. So pretty slow, I guess, but I think that's just talking about that. I mean, the product makes sense, right? There's a huge.
percent who will be happy with custodianship right? That's why people hold crypto on exchanges like coinbase and You know, I've been one of them and it makes sense that you get to sleep a little bit more soundly Even though there's the true hardcore camp that disagrees with that Emily some thoughts on you're in
Yeah, so my participation is kind of awkward because I only hear of the people on stage. I am not surprised Ledger walked us back in any capacity. I think that they did not address it or advertise it in the right way. I think Ledger has been going in a very unsecure direction.
for a while and encouraging weird behaviors ledger as jewelry was the one that really blew my mind. It seems as if they are significantly more committed to their brand story and brand identity than actual blockchain security.
And you know, if I was in ledger shoes and my business was selling hardware devices that you only needed one of, I definitely would consider what can I do to make other people buy these ledgers when the crypto user base of the world is something like less than 5% in let alone how many of them are you
using hardware while it's that's a big question for them to answer what they're doing makes sense from business perspective. Is it providing the best tool for the actual user in the reality of what crypto is? No, I don't think they are. I think a lot of people
are asking for custody without understanding how crypto works and what it is. And I think that, you know, a company the size of ledger should be doing more to educate people on what self custody is instead of saying sure will be your bank.
I think that that is not the direction I would like to see the biggest security company in crypto going down, but that's the world we live in and they have investors like anybody else. So it makes perfect sense. I just am not a
I think that's a great take. I agree with everything you said. That's a good way to close down that discussion. We are well over time today, but this has been a fun one here. But before we go, I want to talk about what's dropping today.
There's several drops. We've got the memes by 6529 and 11 Nike our force won the public sales coming at noon. We've got symbols at noon. Overlords are cana at 1210. There's the art blocks curated human unreadable by operator coming at 1 p.m. Crypto is Star Wars coming later today.
It is what it is by Marcel Schwitlick. I'll also coming later today. I think the main drop of today is that our block security drop operator following the resurgence of our blocks demand over the past few days. This will see a spike. It's in a claimed and unique project. The artist is using live models to create a
choreography based gerniv art theme Sam and his tis is today nice video on this so go check out his page if you want to learn more but i think we're gonna see some big demand for this one it's gonna be a nice test for the art blocks market but folks other than that that is it for today we'll be back tomorrow at 10
and Eastern thanks to our listeners for tuning in. Thanks to my goals. Thanks to Liz, Ruto, Kayla for jumping on stage. Everyone enjoy your Wednesday. Let's make it a great day. Bye everybody.