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Macro Report: Signals to Look for Impacting the Market
Recorded: Aug. 19, 2025 Duration: 1:00:18Space Recording
Short Summary
In a dynamic discussion, industry leaders explored the latest trends in the crypto market, highlighting the launch of new DeFi initiatives, the impact of regulatory clarity on institutional adoption, and the significance of upcoming IPOs in driving capital into the sector. The conversation underscored a resilient outlook amidst recent market fluctuations.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You want me to come over, I got an excuse
Might be holding your hand, but I'm holding it loose
Go to talk, then we choke, it's like our necks in the noose
Avoid the obvious, we should be facing the truth
Start to think it could be feeling bad
Kind of chop it, cause I never really had any past
Look into your eyes, imagine life without you Love kick starts again.
Starts again.
Love kick starts again.
Starts again.
It's the same on you, the same on me.
You get bored and I get cold feet.
Get high, get wondering eyes.
Forget I've never ever had it so sweet.
I realize where I go and I'm out of town.
Cause deep down you're my girl in the golden crown.
My princess, I don't know what to let you down.
No one don't want to let you down. one don't want to let you down down down down down
you want me to come over i got an excuse might be holding your hand but i'm holding it loose
but to talk then we choke us like our necks in the news avoid the obvious we should be facing the truth Start to think it could be
Filling out
Kind of sharp because I never
Really had any doubts
Look into your eyes
Imagine lies without yours
Take, take
Starts again
Start to think it could be
Filling out
Kind of sharp because I'm never really happy now.
Look into your eyes, imagine lies without you.
Imagine lies without you.
Without you.
Without you.
And the love kick starts again.
Starts again.
And the love kick starts again.
Your love kick starts again.
It starts again.
Kick, kick starts.
It's the same old you, the same old me.
You get bored and I get cold feet.
Get high, get wondering eyes.
Forget I've never ever had it so sweet.
I realize what I've got with the man of town.
Cause deep down you're my girl in the golden crown. My princess under no one to let you down. I'm going to go. GMGM everybody welcome back to another banger show with rank launch your d5 fund build a transparent on-chain track record deploy no-code algo strategies attract investors today we're
doing a macro report signals to look for impacting the market
in the crypto space and beyond. And we've got some incredible guest speakers to dive
into this conversation with some incredible builders who are also building in the industry.
We've got Nibiru Chain with us today, the web-free hub ushering in the next era of money.
Nibiru is a blockchain and smart contact hub with defi rwas and more we've got
eric speaking on behalf of nibiru chain today head of ecosystem we've got nick with me in the
co-host spot as always the co-founder of rank trading building the future of decentralized
asset management full-time builder we've also got cryptoo Texan with us today from Katana, DeFi at Katana.
And did I mention Kronos? I don't think so. Kronos Research we also have with us. Sorry,
the PFPs all jumbled around on the show there through me. Kronos Research is a global quantitative
trading powerhouse shaping the future of financial markets. So I'll get the mic over to Nick before
we go any further
in the co-host spot with me today. Nick, how is it going? You're excited for the show today.
What's on your radar in the macro? Yeah, GM guys, nice to have everybody up here. Some familiar
faces as well. So looking forward to this one. Yeah, I mean, obviously a lot to talk about,
a lot of news, a lot of people panicked right now on twitter because we had
one red day and so i'm sure we'll have a good discussion looking forward to it yeah honestly
it does just take that sometimes doesn't it and um a bit bit concerning when most of us have been
in this space for a couple years minimum now and we've seen plenty of red days but when there's a
bull market those red
days do hit a little harder i guess um look yeah i can't wait to dive into it and see you know is
this overly panic is this oversell and is there some other news that is actually incentivizing
this panic a little bit we're going to dive into it on the show for our speakers if you've not been
on a show with myself or nick or the rank team before, quick TLDR about how we try and run this show and then we'll just jump straight
into the conversation.
Basically, we're just going for organic conversation today, which means you guys get the mic when
you want it.
You know, we really, you're building in this industry.
You know what's got your attention.
That's what we want to hear.
We just want to hear where your genuine thoughts are within the space right now.
How we get there though is a little bit of a helping hand from you guys. So if you're on stage, there is a
hot plus function at the bottom right hand corner of your screen right now. And there is a hand
raise function that you should be able to see as well. I'm demoing it right now. If you check out
my PFP, it should have a little hand raise there. Basically, if you want the mic, get the hand in
the air. There we go. Crypto, Crypto Texxan gets it so basically get their hand up in the air and we'll get the mic straight over
to you guys at any point in time like when i say organic we really do mean it here it means
yes of course i'm going to ask a bunch of questions about the macro right now about the
industry yes speakers are going to have takes on this, but you guys come
in where you want. Like if it's off the back of another take from speaker, if it's your own
question for the other speakers on stage, or if it's off the back of one of my questions,
literally free game, think of it, IRL. Think if you were just in, honestly, in a pub, in a coffee
shop with a bunch of people, all just having a conversation around the macro right now.
Let's keep it free flow. It's going to be the best conversation for our listeners today and also for you guys as well. So that's what
we're going for. Hopefully that's enough messing around. If that isn't incentive enough though,
we do also have jack points. Jack points are the most worthless point system in the entire crypto
space, maybe even the world. But you do get jack points every time you raise your hand in the air.
At the end of the show, we'll bundle all those points together and we'll see which speaker comes out on top today that is it
let's dive in where are you guys where are you guys with the macro right now what currently
is leading the global economic signals what in the crypto market is relevant right now that you guys
want to talk about ether'sTH has been doing really well.
I know that's hit my radar.
But yeah, we'd love to hear where it's all going from here.
Is the panic on the red day OTT or is it actually a sign of some more issues to come?
What are your guys thoughts on all of this?
Waiting for those hands, maybe undersold those very worthless jack points
now here we go love to see it let's get the mic over to crypto texan first and then we'll get the
mic over to chronos after texan hello gmgm everyone happy to be here uh yeah i guess just just to get
started maybe with this could could start some other conversations.
I mean, I think in general, the pullback in prices that we've seen over the past few days,
there's always negative sentiments on crypto Twitter when things like that happen.
But I think the current price action, it doesn't really represent a good indicator of, you know, the activity that's going on in the crypto space specifically.
And I felt this way throughout the entire bear market, right?
Like, you know, prices were suppressed, but, you know, if you were on the ground and going to conferences and building new innovative things in the space
and working closely with builders, you would look at the price and you would say,
this doesn't match the global enthusiasm and the innovation that's taking place.
And I think something that is really exciting that we're seeing, at least in the U.S.,
is just this regulatory clarity in pro-crypto policies that we're seeing.
We've got this huge shift towards a more favorable stance in general under a pro-crypto administration.
I think we got one bill passed on the regulatory side and there's even some market structure bills. I think it's called the Clarity Act that'll provide even more just guidance for how like large institutions and banks and regulatory agencies interact with this space in general.
And that just like furthers the adoption and the flow of capital that comes into this space. So, um, yeah, I think the short term price, uh, drawback that we've seen is just,
it's just natural, healthy. Um, and I, I don't think it's anything indicative of anything more,
more broader, uh, that I've been able to see. I mean, you can talk about like any like type of
geopolitical tensions or, um, interest rates, the sovereign debt issues that are always a concern.
But I think in general, when it comes to crypto, you need to look for areas for growth.
And I think crypto and AI are number one and number two when it comes to that.
Now, that's a great start to the show.
Appreciate the take there.
And honestly, yeah, that's definitely where my sentiment is.
You do get days
like this right where you know it goes red and sometimes that red in itself does spare a little
bit of like oh well what could possibly be happening this is like yes funnily enough markets
don't just continue to rip just because it's a bull market for the whole time like sometimes
there is a little bit of pullback when people are taking profits. But all that being said, I haven't seen anything hit my radar that screams it's the end.
Anytime soon, we've got some great speakers with the hand raise as well.
So let's keep getting the mic around to our industry experts.
Cronus Research, over to you next.
Oh, hey, guys.
I mean, I just wanted to piggyback on what he said is that, you know, I think a lot of
things are going on in the reporting from the US like inflation, you got people expecting
rate cuts, all these things are happening so often and so concretely that I think that's
really messing with people's determination on the bull or the bear market.
And I think the last inflation report really spooked people.
Not saying that spooked me per se, but it just made people rethink about interest rates. And
I think maybe people are just too short-sighted right now. They're just looking at like, oh,
and maybe they won't raise rates. So as far as macro, I think that's what's happening right now.
As far as what I think in the future, I mean, I think people are going to potentially get rates cuts and then people will always wonder why they
didn't buy on the dips. And if not, then there's like, you know, another thing I've been thinking,
just to be honest, is what are people selling for? If they are selling, I mean, they're getting like
USD. And if you look at USD, the amount of debt the US has is at all-time high.
So I don't really understand what people are selling into.
Maybe I'm just confused, but I think that's a really interesting thing to think about.
That's, again, really loving the start to this conversation.
And yeah, that's definitely a psychological chain that I've had,
which is, hey, I don't really want to be stabling up anymore.
That term in itself, stabling, is kind of concerning me at this point. I would rather
go into Bitcoin than I would into US dollars at the moment. And honestly, for me, I'm a UK-based,
but I work with global companies. USDC is awesome. USDT is awesome. So oftentimes
I'm happy to accept those currencies, but it's been like a 7% drawdown for me, like just in my
local currency and like making those changes. So when you talk about stability, a 7% cut
is not, it's not super stable to me. Like, you know, I'm just sat here like, yeah, I guess that is just where we're at at the
moment. Really interesting to dive a little bit further into what the inflation numbers mean,
what this idea of not turning the printers on as quickly means as well. Because yeah,
I do keep seeing that narrative come up time and time again. So can't wait to dive into that a
little further and pick the brains up on stage to figure out where we're at and what delay that might cause um let's get the mic over to nabiru
chain got the handle hey guys how's it going it's august here looks like today's morning pullback
was due to the fact that canada's cpi numbers actually went up which is not good. So what does CPI mean? That is the consumer price
index. And it measures the changes in price consumers pay for everyday goods and services
like food, rent, and gas. And then there's core CPI, which does not include food and energy.
And these tend to fluctuate, which is why they remove those numbers
and just report on core CPI.
And so that having increased for Canada last year,
our prints also increased.
So that's not looking good for consumers.
And, you know, Powell's concerned
and he does not want to cut interest rates
until he sees that number come down closer to 2%.
And also, it looks like this morning, U.S. electrical wire producers are also increasing prices.
Just after weeks, Trump decided to exempt copper imports from tariffs.
So right now, we're also seeing the cost of wire being passed down to consumers.
So that's not great for us. And then also, you know, just looking at numbers for July,
our producer price index also jumped 0.9%. And that's the biggest rise since the mid 2022s.
And that's the biggest rise since the mid-2022s.
And what that tracks is like how much businesses pay each other for goods.
So we're not seeing businesses eating those costs.
They're really being passed down to consumers.
So everything from like furniture, appliances, electronics, metals, anything that is heavily imported is already rising in prices.
And as you guys all know, like the data numbers are delayed.
And so we haven't been seeing those increases until as of recently.
And so as much as the markets are begging for a rate cut,
Powell is not going to budge on CPI and PPI numbers.
He's not going to budge on rate cuts until the CPI and PPI numbers actually come down.
And so he even said during the last Fed meeting, he was like, you guys should be thankful I didn't
raise rates yet. So yikes. Yeah, that's scary. Because look, to distill this, and correct me
if I'm wrong here, that was a great contribution great contribution by the way i think we definitely needed that context around canada it is at the end of the day you know if you're
going to turn the printer back on you for the best case scenario you are putting more of that
underlying currency in people's hands to spend which means generally at least when we look at
the last time the printers came on that will further increase people's spending power which generally increases the cost of goods because
those goods are still you know finite like there's only so many teslas or whatever's now popular and
there's only so many like there's only so much food and electricity and everything else that
comes along with it right now so if people have more cash in
their hands then basically it seems to just reflect that the goods themselves are going to
be inflated and that seems to be what canada is sort of hinting at and why they aren't looking to
necessarily put the printers back on now and i guess with that theory then what you don't get
when the printers do go back on is usually people going a
bit more risk on and that's where crypto does very well that's where other you know risk on assets do
well so we're essentially seeing people just not expect the return to risk on assets as quickly
because of these figures but correct me if I'm wrong with any of that.
Absolutely.
You're spot on on that.
And the bottom line is right now,
inflation is sticky.
Tariffs are adding fuel to the fire.
And the feds will not be cutting rates.
And I know every trader is waiting for rate cuts. But when that happens,
BTC, it's going to make its next big move up to all-time high
and similar to how inflation is going up you know the price of gold is going up the same with bitcoin
so yeah but bitcoin has traditionally went with the stock market right that's the it's kind of
unusual because a lot of us do see that as more of a parallel to gold.
We compare it to gold all the time in every single circle, even people who do want to see
Bitcoin do more than just be this asset that accumulates value. But do we think even if the
stocks take a bigger hit because inflation isn't under control and we don't get the money princes
back on anytime soon, that Bitcoin will still see a rally? Is that what your sort of
suggestion there, August? That's a great question. I think that Bitcoin has been a bull market for
quite some time now. And it's a hedge against inflation, which is why it's been able to bounce back from when the SBF collapsed until now.
So it's made just tremendous move since, even within the last year.
However, I don't think it's going to make new all-time highs until we see the rate cuts.
And Bitcoin hasn't made a new all-time high this cycle.
It's not impossible that it's already made its all-time high.
I don't
think it has honestly like right now you see the media pushing um bitcoin's price ethereum's price
you see all these ipos from crypto projects happening so i don't think it's made its all-time
high it's it's gonna happen soon though yeah this is such an interesting line of thought around yeah when do the printers go back
on what happens if they don't i i am still under the theory that bitcoin is by no means seen at
all time high this time around and i think it's just the sentiment around the crypto space but it
has also been about as far off as i can i can remember when it comes to like what i am seeing
here on the streets almost you know like when you look at like your ct feed or cx feed whatever
we're calling it these days crypto twitter crypto x when you look at the feed for the most part it's
just reflecting what's going on in the world but people have been screaming for the printers to go back on now for
what feels like at least a couple of quarters and when you do look at the fed and you do look
like generally what's at least like for me in the uk stuff's just getting more and more expensive
here like groceries electricity food like like all these things are just going up and up and i'm
sat here like unless that is now just
completely separate from the rest of the world doesn't feel like a moment to be turning the
princess back on um and yeah that yet there's definitely this like theory that it's all just
going to be turned back on tomorrow we're all going to be hitting jenny wealth numbers um so
yeah that's this is the big big question i think for today's show and love that we're already
getting into the crux of this.
Cryptotexin, Mike, over to you on that.
Yeah, I think something I just want to touch on here, too, is that just because there's a decrease in rates at the Fed level, it doesn't necessarily mean that that's turning on the
money printers because when we talk about money printers go burr
in the crypto space,
what we're talking about
on the more traditional side of things
is that you're starting to see quantitative easing
or that type of large scale money creation
where like central banks,
they cut interest rates first
as like that's like the first stop
of like as like a tool to stimulate
borrowing and spending within an economy. And then quantitative easing is where the central bank
will create new money to buy assets. It has some sort of correlation with long-term rates. I'm forgetting
exactly how to describe that. But so like decreased interest rates, you know, it's not necessarily a
money printer going burr, but it is like, oh, now that they've decreased interest rates,
are they going to decrease them again? Or are they going to turn on quantitative easing where
like central banks start buying assets again um and then another thing too that
that i think uh the speaker in naburu was talking about is like yeah low low interest rates uh they
they typically do benefit the the crypto space right and i think you know kind of what i was
talking about earlier like we've got all these positive regulatory headwinds uh at least on the
u.s side but you're starting to see other sovereign states
also implement pro-crypto policies. If you take that positive regulatory headwind and combine it
with the lower interest rate environment, that just increases the liquidity and increases the
risk on appetite for investors because investors
in like the traditional sense, you know, they're looking for a specific type of return. So if
they're looking for X percent return and then interest rates decrease, they've got to go a
little bit further on out on the risk curve to kind of hit that, that percent of return that they were looking
for initially and low interest rates, like allows them to borrow at a cheaper rate and allows them
to, to look out on the risk curve to try to look for that a little bit. And the crypto space is
still seen as pretty far out on the risk curve. And, um, yeah, and that's, that's where we see
a lot more capital flows and innovation. So, yeah, low interest rates plus more positive regulatory change, extremely bullish for the crypto space and the capital that flows into it.
Yeah, absolutely.
Do you have any ideas where you feel that's going to come from?
Do you feel like we are going to see a bit more of a delay than maybe people were expecting over the past couple of months?
I don't think so.
I mean, I think once the market structure bill, I think it's called the Clarity Act, passes through Congress, I think there are already a lot of financial institutions and traditional finance companies that are already positioning themselves to take advantage of the policies within that market structure bill once it does go live.
And I think you've probably seen some very prominent banks kind of hinting at this a little bit.
And yeah, I think as long as we continue to make progress on the regulatory side
there's there's no slowdown uh in in my opinion yeah that's the words that are music to my ears
and and look like wrapped in logic as well right like we yeah we are getting more bills passed
and more clarity and regulation to this space where it has only felt like that's been the one hindrance.
It's not like there's all these other levers that need to be pulled at this point.
The user experience is better.
The real builders are here.
The opportunities just honestly compete aggressively with what is on offering in the traditional
markets right now.
And yet we have just been waiting for some time for the US to get a little bit less anti-innovation
and that's exactly seemingly what's happening right now and I think to see other countries
take that sort of path and follow it as well is really really positive and yeah I agree I don't
think there's any winding back that clock. Nick your hand is raised would love to hear your thoughts
on this. Yeah I mean mean, on that topic specifically,
we have some good news with the dropping of the appeals
between the SEC and Ripple.
That's something that a lot of people are waiting a long time for.
And then, of course, increased regulatory clarity in general
is going to be really positive for the space.
I also wanted to piggyback on that to talk a little bit more
about quantitative easing as well,
because I think that people have maybe unreasonable expectations due to what they associate the idea of a Fed rate cut with,
which would be the QE infinity spending that the Fed was basically buying up every bond.
And he's basically said, we'll buy as much as it takes. And that just shreds the dollar value.
And so that's why now since that period of time when inflation just went absolutely bananas, the Fed has been getting rid of a bunch of the assets that they were purchasing.
And that's been like this tightening that we've had.
So our Fed rate cut this time would probably do a lot for retail market psychology because of the expectations that everyone has and obviously still have some
institutional impacts. But generally, the catalysts for what we have in this bull run are the amount
of institutional inflows. I mean, we had like a Bitcoin all time high within the last week. So I
think we should it's far too soon for us to be wondering if it's over. You know, maybe if we have
many more days or weeks of some capitulation, then we have some worries.
But for now, this is a healthy retracement.
And Powell has a speech on Friday.
We'll get some hint about where the Fed's at probably by then.
I think that a lot of big bags like to use these periods of time, obviously, to take profits. Also, if you can sell into some fear that
people have that maybe we don't get the Fed rate cut that the market is expecting.
But I mean, ultimately, markets are really good at pricing and information, even if it's
supposed to be secret information. So just have the expectation that basically everything is priced in
and watch what's happening on more than just the dailies
for a better idea of where we're headed.
And if you look at the chart, it does not look like it's anywhere near exhaustion.
It doesn't look like we're anywhere near exhaustion in terms of institutional appetite
for adding Bitcoin to corporate treasuries or even to more of these ETFs that more people
are filing for.
So I think generally now we're in a stage where this is a legitimate asset class that's
viewed by more than just some kind of edgy people on the internet and a couple of companies.
This is now obviously a part of the new financial world, and we're going to just see even more
liquidity in a giant sense for us come into the space over the next few years.
So yeah, I would be looking at accumulating
during periods where everyone else is freaking out.
Generally, that's a positive strategy
when it comes to investing in crypto in general,
as I'm sure many others can attest as well.
Yeah, yeah.
We think, you know, we've all seen
how the market reacts in comparison
to the crypto market of late.
We were all told it was over when Sol was at $13 and Bitcoin was at $13,000.
Things have happened since then that are quite positive.
And even a more closely held narrative to the believers was that ETH was definitely cooked.
And we had that narrative run up until about two months ago and now you know
Aoife is also being suggested to get near all-time highs if not already so yeah yeah I do I do think
there is definitely a little bit of salt to take with some of the conversations and some of the
timeline sentiment especially when it comes to food Nick johan came back up there yeah i just
wanted to say also that it's important for all of us i imagine we're all pretty much on twitter a
lot but it's also important to remember that twitter is actually a very small niche of a very
small niche market so just remember that everything that you see on twitter doesn't actually always
reflect the market sentiment because it's really easy to get more freaked out than necessary if you just look at Twitter because it rewards being sensational and having some secret thing.
Oh my God, you wouldn't believe this and that.
I mean, you look on here, you see all kinds of crazy narratives about all sorts of villains
in the space and sometimes it's even completely misdirected.
So it's important to remember that too too just to keep your head on your shoulders
and not get uh you know too caught up in the fear I guess yeah no absolutely I think that's such a
good um a good call out which is yeah social media does not reward common sense or just staying neutral and calm like it rewards engagement and normally
the way you get engagement is by basically sitting on one side of a fence like either
so bullish that everybody is like wait this guy's just crazy if he thinks this is gonna happen
or so bearish that people are incentivized to say you're crazy for being so bearish
and if you're saying what everybody else is thinking or what the logical are thinking, then generally
that's just noise that gets tuned out by social media and honestly, traditional media.
Let's be honest.
It's not just for this space, but definitely some of the places we should be looking.
Eric, your hand is raised.
We'd love to hear your thoughts and your first take on the show.
Yeah, I really like Nick's points.
I think that I really want to highlight how detrimental social media can be for assessing the market.
You can make your feed very bullish or bearish depending on what tweets you like, right?
Because you'll see everybody's posting, oh, ETH just broke all-time high.
We're going to rip the 15K. You'll see that posted like 10 oh eth just broke all-time high we're gonna rip to 15k you'll
see that posted like 10 different times by 10 different people and then you'll see somebody
below that crazy how eth is at all-time high and nobody's even talking about it and it's like what
do you mean nobody's everybody's talking about it but if you like tweets that are bullish then
you're gonna make your feed very bullish if you like tweets that are bearish you're gonna make
your feed very bearish like it'll show you more of what you want.
So it's really – it is not an assessment of where the market is.
It's an assessment of how you're feeling exposed through other people's posts.
So definitely minimize your reliance on that and like think about like the greater
where we are like the trends like the macro right like stay stay grounded even you could be bullish
like that could be grounded but um definitely avoid like crypto twitter as like uh an indicator
yeah again great great take and yeah i feel quite seen right now as my whole timeline is still fairly bullish um but yeah
yeah that's definitely where I am at right now Eric tell me this where do we look if not to
social media or is it just about curating your social media feed a little bit more positively
as well or not positively but you know a little bit more logically in terms of like following the
right people curating lists of those people to just
get that more spectrum view of where the bulls and the bears are and what logically makes sense
to you with a broader market outlook or is there just places outside of x entirely where you guys
are like okay this is you know some solid data points that we need to factor in here yeah i think
you well i mean yeah you can make lists
um and then you can like diligently check the lists but i think that like even within the lists
right it's not like recent it shows you like most relevant so it still factors in like what do you
agree with and showing you what you agree with i think i mean i like to i like to browse the news
incognito so it's just kind of like fresh um and then i think also
like as you see when you see it mentioned kind of as you start seeing it mentioned in out in the
real world like i just went to go see the the the f1 movie and they had bybit okx and um
well say they had uh another crypto crypto.com, right? And it's like, whoa, like if this happened in 2017 or in 2015, that we had like crypto exchanges, like just appearing in like, like top movie blockbusters like and then that broke the internet so I think that like
seeing the adoption in pop culture uh and then the more you see it in pop culture the more like
normalized it becomes um looking at app store downloads I think is good because that shows
like how many people are like using it I do like the posts about like google search trends and
seeing like how the trends are changing uh and I i think it's like yeah it's more holistic because we're talking about like
institutional adoption or like more more people um adopting crypto and like buying bitcoin and
getting into like these uh or like buying into etfs right i think that the the technology is there
like etfs are now there for people so now it's about like
what are what is the external interest for like new people that are coming in um and then at some
point i think we should talk about that's because i think that's are what everyone sees is like the
next trend for for institutions okay elaborate no let's let's do it and by the way just slightly off topic and okay incredibly
off topic if you haven't seen the new f1 movie go watch it i actually only caught it yesterday
probably my favorite movie this year and yet not just because it had a bunch of crypto
brands that were plastered all along that it was such a cool thing to do by the way they basically
if you do if like you're not familiar with the movie starring brad pitt it like basically a completely fictional f1 team as the center point of the movie with all
the other teams being real teams and all the main like people linked into being the actual drivers
and but all the logos on the fake team were like companies who'd paid to be advertised on this one movie.
It was like Apple found a completely different revenue stream for this. And funnily enough,
crypto were at the forefront for that and paying some big money to get there. But yeah,
as Eric mentioned, that can be quite bullish when people do just start seeing those names
as like an accumulation of just the market instead of like oh there's a crypto company but
iraq talk to me a little bit about this um this thing that we should be talking about right now
yeah i think digital as a treasury people have seen the success of uh of micro strategy and so
i think over the past few months uh like a lot of people have been getting on to like starting up
new treasury companies or converting existing,
partnering with some existing company
and saying like, hey, here's a better business model
is to just issue out stock and then buy a token.
But do that with ETH or do that with Sol.
So I think now that it's hitting crypto Twitter
as a strategy, people anticipate the creation of more
for other tokens.
And I do see this being a big bubble,
like how every company added blockchain to their name,
or every company added metaverse to their name.
I can see every company adding Bitcoin to their balance sheets
and then issuing more, or skipping Bitcoin,
because everyone thinks that Bitcoin is already too big
and that there's not enough to make on Bitcoin.
So they try to do alts.
But I mean, year over year, Bitcoin is like the best performing asset.
So, you know, but people are going to try to do alts.
And so I think there's going to be the dats on the alts.
We're already seeing that.
But the problem is that they're not going to have as much risk management policies in
place as companies like MicroStrategy.
So I could see that going bad if like's leverage with that kind of leverage and then just companies
getting blown out on the next pullback or the next bear cycle, right?
And then they close down.
So I think there's a lot of ways to go up, but that'll also retrace.
I don't think that's ultimately the best thing but i do i i it looks like that's
going to happen so i'm curious like what other people think about those yeah that's that's a
really interesting line of question and yeah definitely something that we've seen alongside
eve performing really well with a couple of micro strategy mirroring companies on each side um
yeah yeah opening that one up.
I haven't heard from Kronos in a second.
Kronos, do you want to come in here?
How big do you feel MicroStrategy
and other businesses trying to, you know,
do the accumulation model
are for the industry right now?
And where do you see that ending up?
Is there any sort of milestones
or metrics that you're looking at
with these sort of businesses
in terms of giving you any indicator of what's next?
Oh, maybe we haven't heard from Kronos because X is bugging a little bit.
I do see them still in the speaker list, but Kronos, give us a wave or a thumbs up or down if you're not hearing me or you just can't come off mute right now and we'll keep this one going anyone else nick a rank looking at this at all
oh wait here we go chronos okay i was just trying to get my microphone to work sorry about that
i mean i i was just trying to figure out uh one of the things i think we haven't talked about too
much is like what if let's just say the right cuts do actually you know happen then like
is that going to be the bullish sentiment like going forward is it's done because that's what
everyone's looking forward to i don't really know uh that's too forward looking but i just wanted
to mention that because i think a lot of people are concentrated on that but i'm also trying to
figure out to myself like you know what's next after that that could be a bullish catalyst you
know what i mean yeah i guess it does depend
on what actually does happen next right like if um if the the rates do get cut and the printers
eventually go back on then obviously if there are more and more inflows to crypto with the
regulation that it now has and the stability that it seemingly is starting to incur, then you would
expect that, yeah, maybe it does just find new all-time highs and that the volatility
to the downside is mitigated a little bit more because now we have countries coming in,
regulating, giving us some stability. You've got the banks coming in. You've got all of these
things happening that are to the positive. And then you've just got a period of time where people can accumulate as well and do it more cheaply. So that's where my head's at with
this. But yeah, I'd love to hear from some other speakers here because there's still obviously
going to be downside to that market. There's going to be euphoria. I think whether we have
hit that in its prime, I've definitely seen the greed numbers look pretty euphoric at
a couple of points in time during this current market. But yeah, if you look at previous cycles
and the history of 2021, even 2019, 2020 with DeFi summer, we haven't really hit that euphoria yet,
right? And we definitely haven't seen retail coming in floods. It is definitely more of an
institutional wave that is coming in and buying
these assets right now um but chronos any any response to that anything else that you're
thinking alongside what you believe the next metric might be i'm other than those two things
the only thing else i'm really looking at is uh what happens around not just the u.s i think a
lot of people are focused on what the US does,
but like the previous person in this space was talking about like Canada and how that reflects around the world. Because, you know, as we know with like the economy, like it's very reflective
about other countries. So like if you see some good news from like, you know, I don't know,
like Canada, for example, or India, then that can actually signal like a bullish sentiment
for the crypto market. So it's like forward looking. I'm actually really looking at that
indication and also seeing if there's any difference within the stock market that will
transition to the crypto market, not just the treasuries, but like any bullish sediment that
I can see. Because right now I feel like, I don't know, you said the timeline on yours is really
bullish, but I feel like everyone's just panicking a little bit so i think i think i like too many middle way tweets that are semi
bush and semi bearish maybe yeah maybe we're both out to lunch here maybe after this show we can
both like like some of the tweets that we've already liked as in you like some of the tweets
i've liked i like some of the tweets you like and then it might even itself back out and get back to neutral but
um yeah look it's it really is hard it it's i think for the most part there are definitely
and we said this right at the start of the show there was just too many many big changes that are coming to the industry in terms of regulation for any sort of macro news to be like the be-all and end-all, unless it's the the way i just i don't think they're as transparent with their figures um at least from what i'm experiencing because i've got some canadian
friends who've been over the uk recently and they are shocked and appalled by how much it costs for
a loaf of bread and just for your groceries here in the uk so like i i do think some big big
countries are feeling that grip right now and so yeah, definitely some stuff going on there.
I think residential is another figure that I'm looking at. When you look at just the amount of
people just not being able to get on the property market right now, the black rock is coming for
your family home. That narrative has never been stronger to me. It hits my timeline constantly.
It's like these Vcs are just buying up
every single property and not just like these big commercial properties anymore but like just
traditional little full bedroom houses that families used to go for now they can't even buy
them because blackrock's here to invest so there are definitely some areas that i think outside of
the crypto space could have a little little reflector to if the whole market comes in.
But I don't know. Yeah, I still feel fundamentally super positive about this.
Also, we talked about Bitcoin earlier and like if it's ever going to separate itself from following the stock market.
I feel this could be the time, but I feel like we say this every every sort of uptick, and it never, ever is.
And it always confuses the life out of me.
So, yeah, we'll see.
We'll see.
Guys, look, we're 45 minutes into the show.
I hope you've all been enjoying it.
For our listeners, if you have been enjoying it,
do follow Rank.
Do follow Nick, who is speaking as co-host
and the co-founder of Rank right now,
and any of the other speakers.
If you've enjoyed their insights and takes to the show right now, go give them a follow. We've just made it abundantly clear
how important it is to curate your timeline and make sure it still mainly has a foundation of
logic and truth to it. You can do that by following the speakers up on stage and
knowing that they're building in the industry, not just here to polarize you with their takes to get more engagement. So that's definitely a positive. Nick, I'll throw the mic
over to you here. We've got a couple of different questions and different things to highlight.
Anything caught your attention or rank's attention right now?
Yeah, I mean, I think we're really, as I mentioned before, watching some of the deeper fundamental
metrics, like we're not so concerned with the short-term some of the deeper fundamental metrics like we're not
so concerned with the like short-term status of the market uh i mean we're trading so we're taking
positions in both directions so for us it's not the the end of the world if we see a retracement
it's actually good for us to not have uh you know constant movement in one direction or even worse a flat market.
So yeah, for us, what we're watching right now, more than anything,
are pending alt season, I guess.
We're really excited for that.
We were talking just last show, I believe we were talking about how
everyone expected that maybe the four-year cycle was a myth and that this one would be different.
And we also kind of thought that as well.
And we also spoke about and agreed with Flagship on the last show that it seems as much as we tried to say that, oh, perhaps this one's different.
It's sort of following the exact same pattern as the other two.
So I guess we'll see what happens exactly with that. It does seem to us that there's more of a correlation now to traditional finance than previously. But that's also hard to say
because the extremely bullish periods of crypto also coincided with pretty crazy unprecedented times in the entire world.
So, yeah, it's hard to say exactly how things are set up.
And will we see a departure from the four-year cycle?
Are we seeing more correlation with TradFi markets?
It's too soon to call it for sure but i mean
again we just had a bitcoin all-time high within the last week uh we had one a month before that
and people have called top and that it's all over like three or four times uh in the past two months
and people said eth was dead and the stable coin. People say a lot of stuff. We're
watching the market. Now, I, again, really like the way we have focused on the macro right now
and stayed away from some of the more polarizing takes that, yeah, the market is dying or is definitely definitely going to be a new bull
market in the next 15 seconds guys tell me okay we you know great great conversation we had today
we are coming up to the close of the show what are the next things that we we should be looking
at like what macro shifts could open up the biggest opportunities right now. Are there any indicators, anything at all
that you would say is going to give you more clarity on where the market moves next?
Are there anything specifically that you guys are looking for in the market to give you a little bit
of a better sense of, yeah, where does it move? Is it going to go back to the upside? Is it going
to stay choppy for a little while or is it going to go back to the upside is it going to stay choppy for a little while or is you know is it going to go down from here eric over to you yeah i'm going to be looking
for more uh data announcements um i mean you know gamestop bought half a half a billion bitcoin in
june they're already up 75 million on that so like what point does what point does your bitcoin
holdings like outpace the revenue of whatever the business does and then you just become a dat yourself so i think that yeah more more and more big names announcing
dats they do that then great until there's too many of them and then it's like oh it might be
an issue um and then uh yeah and then just like more pop culture pop culture stuff like seeing it
uh coinbase adoption numbers and and wallet adoption figures
yeah is isn't it like a self-fulfilling prophecy that if that's do especially if it's just bitcoin
that's if more of them do come about is it possible for there to be too many like isn't
that like sort of like doesn't it just you know there's only 21 million bitcoins if they're all
buying it aren't they all just pumping all of each other's bags like i don't see the downside to that unless
they start selling well the downside is that they don't i mean if they don't have proper risk
management then as soon as there's a pullback then you know now gamestop is down 75 million
instead of up 75 over leveraged yeah the over leverage issue so it'll be it'll be fun for like a few months, but then I'm worried after that, you know.
Fair, fair. That's a great take. Let's get the mic over to August on the Niberi chain side.
Yeah, so what I what I have my eyes on would be the Clarity Act, given that it's one of the most important crypto bill.
And then also more IPOs from crypto companies. So I just, I don't know
if you guys know, but last Wednesday, Bullish, which is a crypto exchange backed by Peter Thiel,
they also are the parent company CoinDesk IPO. And they listed on the NYSE at $37 a share,
and it more than tripled that same day, bringing their company's valuation to
13 billion. And then of course, like Circle's IPO back in June, that was the most successful IPO and
the most profitable in the last seven years. So there's going to be more of that coming.
And just yesterday, I saw a notification that, what is it, Figure Technology just filed for an IPO as well.
So we're going to be seeing a lot more of that.
I'm just really, really excited to see projects getting listed
and seeing the merge between traditional equity markets and crypto finally happening.
Yeah, like that's always bullish if they keep doing well as well.
It's just more institutional funds coming into the space and more eyeballs on the space, right?
That's like what drove retail last cycle.
If that just continues to drive institutional, you expect that at the same point in time,
retail to start seeing this stuff and go, hey, wait, wait, why is it that there's always a correlation between IPOs
and when it's got the
crypto in its name and all of a sudden they keep doing three x's four x's out the gate like come
on um let's get them i go for crypto texas next yeah i think a couple things that i'm paying
attention to and we're paying attention to on the on the katana side is not only like that's
been a good can y'all hear me? It shows that my speaker is muted.
No, no.
Yeah.
We got you.
We got you.
Classic Twitter bugs.
Yeah.
I think things we're paying attention to, like DATS have been a good conversation that I think could probably warrant its own show.
But I also think, you know, what are these DATS and even ETFs?
Like what are they doing with the assets that they're custodying?
When are they going to be allowed to stake Ether? Can they use liquid staking tokens? Will they
then start using those in DeFi? Because I think if we start seeing DATs start to, you know, try to
obtain some higher yields and returns by using DeFi, that's going to unlock a huge catalyst for
DeFi resurgence and innovation and capital flows.
And then also even on the Bitcoin side, I mean, there's projects like Lombard where
you can stake your Bitcoin in a way through Babylon that's a little bit similar to Eigenlayer.
Not really, it rhymes with it. And then you know, using Bitcoin in DeFi in a way that we
haven't seen quite yet. There's a lot of like regulatory red tape in some like FASB accounting
things that need to be unblocked for those ETFs and DATS to actually do those things.
DATS have a little bit more leeway on what they can do there. So that, I think that's really something really big to pay attention to on the DeFi side,
but then also paying attention to crypto companies that like, like the speaker at
Nibiru said, not, not only going public, but we also have two crypto related companies
in the S and P 500, which is also very exciting, right?
We've got Coinbase and then we've got Square, which is now called Block.
And I think that opens the eyes to a lot of institutions and hedge funds saying like,
oh, okay, this is something that we actually can invest on because every hedge fund and
institutional investor has their own policies on which type of stocks they can invest in.
And a lot of those companies, it says they've got to be in the S&P 500 first.
They've got to be over X amount of market cap.
And that's just going to, you know,
it's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy there.
So those are two things that I'm paying attention to.
And also the bear market will come someday.
So look for projects that are preparing for,
and have that bear market resilience. We've got some mechanisms on the Katana side. I'm not going to shill Katana too much that, you know, we're
already preparing for the bear market on our side while enjoying the fruits of the bull market right
now, currently. No, look, I really appreciate all the takes from our speakers today and definitely
will be looking further into the
projects that you guys are speaking on behalf of today and the dats theory and like what they do
if they can open up that liquidity or those assets a little bit more to defy i i've heard that a
couple of times now i even spoke on a on a live video show another day to a project that have
completely reshaped themselves to basically set themselves
up for that exact inevitability like that's what they're building to make it really easy for that
to get more exposure by doing exactly what you've just referenced crypto text and so yeah yeah really
really interesting take definitely seeing projects built towards that as well which is a good sign
to the likelihood of that scenario. Nick, I'll throw
the mic over to you. We're basically at time, so we'd love to hear your final take on the
show and don't be afraid to give us any updates, milestones, or anything else you'd like to
share on behalf of Rank before we close out. Yeah, I just quickly wanted to say another
thing that we're really watching is going to be the adoption of crypto rails into different
existing payments platforms. We have PayPal, several others that are really interesting.
That's going to be really exciting and drive a lot of
users to the space.
I also wanted to mention that as we have a bunch of institutional inflows
into Spot for all of these DATs and so on, we're not seeing so much trading
activity coming from institutions yet.
I think that's still because of the constraints that we have around
overall liquidity in the market.
Still, fairly small-sized trades have tremendous market impact.
And I'm including not just retail exchanges into that, but also larger OTC venues, which there are quite a few now. I think the fragment in liquidity is a problem, too, in terms of of execution if you talk about larger institutions trying to trade.
So there's a lot of like sneaky tricks, not tricks, but a lot of sneaky ways that we have to make larger trades in crypto.
And I think that as that becomes more, oh my God, I have to say it, more centralized into exchanges that can handle larger sizing,
handle larger sizing that we'll see even more institutional inflows from funds that actually
want to trade with larger size too so that's what we have our eyes on as well outside of what's
already been mentioned lots of good stuff here everybody i recommend you go and follow the people
on the panel these are some of the most knowledgeable people in the space that we've had
several spaces with everybody here so yeah it's been great to have you guys all here and appreciate your time.
Awesome stuff.
And we'll close it out there.
Thank you guys so much for tuning in.
Obviously we can't do these shows without you as the listeners.
So really appreciate all the support,
likes,
retweets and everything else.
And we'll catch you on the next show.
Same time next week.
Oh, and anyone paying attention,
it was a tie across the board for the Jack points that time round.
A lot of back and forth,
so, you know,
struggle to keep a track of it,
but yeah, you guys all crushed it.
GG's. GGs. Thank you.
