loud and clear brother loud and clear
just give me a but just give me a good minute or so let some more uh... people
that will get started man
all right we'll go ahead and get started
what's going on guys wonderful day in the markets
we kind of pulled back a bit
later on after the new york open but
i see coinbase is doing quite well
they're damn near eight percent up
uh... haven't taken a look
at their earnings but uh...
i did take a look at some of robin hoods
there up uh... quarter by quarter i think chillin said that in
on the crypto side of things
things are looking more bullish than ever we had larry thank
and we saw some of our beloved alts here at bb
make an all-time high today
uh... damn near dollar it ninety nine cents to the t
uh... dimension yesterday in all-time high of about
eight dollars and eighty cents
little bit below that depending on
you're looking at and uh... as far as the equity markets go
we're getting closer and closer
so if you keep it all that man
uh... less than sixty days out
and the blast unlock should be coming
and the next uh... week-and-a-half two weeks
so you're talking once again as i've been hammering on the show you're
talking over a billion dollars
coming on to uh... the market
for some of these newer charts
really just off of the cusp of
any new narrative things just start flying right so on a
uh... far off to making new
eith is knocking on the door at three thousand dollars and
you know if we take a look at eith against bitcoin
eith has a lot of catching up to do and
you know i know it's uh... it's been at the tail end of
people like myself making fun of eith
performance and all that stuff but
put in a ten percent fifteen percent candle
then all of our other alts are going to go up you know
two times three times more of that
i think we're finally starting to see
some of that q one seasonality
at total two today and we're just under nine hundred million and
we got a small push above that ends
you know even if we just have a weekly close at these levels you're talking
you know the highest weekly close that we've had across the board
i think that's pretty bullish man and uh...
things are looking even more uh...
you know i think we were hanging out
we're like fifty thousand dollars and eighty bucks something in fact just a
and now we're well above that
man i'm doing well man seeing the markets up seen finally getting some
sort of uh... some sort of bull sentiment on on twitter and you know i
see everyone is finally calling for the pre-having
really screaming this for a while uh...
but you know it definitely and we're thirty two percent or thirty
uh... from a new all-time high like i mean at this point
it's in our sights and it's just a matter of time whether it comes pre-
uh... you know flows are bullish
uh... catalyst are bullish
and you know one of the best things that i looked at i'm actually uh... i'll
probably post something about this a little bit later
but you look at the bitcoin chart you realize it's just so like thirty some
percent away from all-time high but they look at total three
uh... and you realize that
you know it is completely
uh... over a hundred percent below its its previous all-time high so
uh... we know that you know when
uh... the all-time high hits that's when we get media coverage that's when retail
you know get their toes in again
and that's where the you know the true all season
uh... either will begin or continue depending on how things uh... go these
uh... weeks and months so
uh... yeah man i'm i'm excited i'm ready to see you know total three back at one
and uh... you know looking forward to when it hits four trillion
yeah for having before all-time high man i was discussing this with our discord
is something that's looking
the continued inflows from these ETFs start
and they definitely shocked me right if
you told me you know during the summertime
half a billion dollars a day
talking to the market which is basically
it's basically on-chain kiwi i would have called you
like this asset class right
you're trapped in your bubble
and someone says hey you know total crypto market cap is going to double
from here in the next three months you call yourself
call that person crazy but
the total crypto market cap
is basically comprised within one of these blue chip companies right i think
uh... still has like a higher market cap
and you're talking about only one company
i think yeah during one of uh... nvidia's
just to be here right now to witness like
it's a beautiful thing man
i can't wait for that sort of stuff
to happen to some of our alts where
and everyone's just taken
and then price does nothing consolidates and it keeps on trading higher
and i think what you're seeing with bcc
especially if you look at like
you know the eight-hour time frame it's just
beautiful beautiful trend upwards i think
eve might be at the beginning stages of that and
mind you full disclosure here
i do have some quote-unquote
you know eat beta through
i'm mostly exposed to like
modular ecosystems the parallel uvms like saying stuff like that
it's the boat that lifts all tides right
but uh... i see max has joined us man max
how are you feeling uh...
let's get the thirty six hundred brother
uh... yeah hey wabi hey everybody
all man how am i feeling about things
trying to figure out how how i want to approach this right now
about met max max before before before anything before you say i was about
guys book but you got a good one
guys got hold on i have to pull off on max in market check man
i have to go into market check mode so
doesn't take that much really helps out with the algorithm
if you guys open up the chat box you'll see something where it says twitter.com
really helps with the algo doesn't take more than three seconds and uh...
it does uh... a great favor for us when it comes to the algorithm so
uh... thank you guys for that but
yeah that's a great point i like to hammer that home on market check guys
it's a very fair ask a very fair exchange of services all that we request
while we do these free spaces is that
you could find the kindness in your hearts to to help us and continue to
support us just by hitting that like button and also throw in a re-tweet
but anyways yeah guys talking about why crying wabi
what was that why are you crying there's no reason to cry
the emojis as nomad says there's no need to be upset
there is no need to be upset it was crazy that
he put out like uh... a bearish tweet
like this this guy called the crypto path
he like re-tweeted one of his tweets
uh... from november of twenty twenty and he says infinite bid
right within forty eight hours which
is a beautiful thing to see some of these like
crypto twitter profiles just go at it man
you know nomads a beast man do not fade nomad uh... but here's what i think man
he was the biggest fish in the uh... in the aquarium
until larry fink got here man so i i don't know if he has that same
i don't know if he has the same weight that he used to pull man out of the
institutions are here but i love nomad he's uh... he's an absolute chat but
anyways talking about the market guys i mean look i i'm not here to hedge my
you know my opinions and my thoughts and beliefs on where the market is that
i mean i i'll just narrate exactly what i'm seeing and i mean a lot of you guys
tune in on our youtube show and you probably heard me talking about this
i'll be as clear as i can i mean i i think
last space i was on with you guys i said this earlier today on our youtube show
i mean the the meme of last cycle that there was only twenty one million bitcoin
uh... i don't think it's a meme anymore and we now have the data to back it up
i mean the institutions are here guys that we previously thought were whales
you know would would take thirty fifty hundred million dollar positions and we
all kind of marveled and oogled and and odd at
you know the size that they were trading
i mean those guys are minnows now you know that there there's new
there's a new orca at sea world you know
and uh... as a matter of fact there's what like nine of them
and they're the spot ETFs and
we're seeing inflows on a daily basis uh... you know five hundred
uh... ten nine hundred million in daily inflows and
what i find really interesting about it is that
it all seems to happen like the pump in the bullish price action seems to mostly
towards like the second half of europe session
uh... so all the you know
all the americans wake up to to green price action
and then we kinda just like churn and sell off into the afternoon it seems
like that that's the new pattern so i don't know what the buy algo is right
maybe somebody else does know but
you know actually work where most of my focus has been recently is has not been
i mean honestly if you still need to be shilled on bitcoin you know and and
you know i'm happy to explain it right but like if you still need to be
convinced that bitcoin is a legitimate global reserve asset
the world's first digital commodity
being that it has no issue or
it has a cost of production but
it's a decentralized commodity and the first digital one at that
i mean you're coming come on now we're working past this and for those of you
you tune into the spaces regularly my main objective is to outperform bitcoin
i've you and i treat bitcoin kinda like the s and p five hundred
where if i have a really great year you know i'll dramatically outperform
and it's similar to how guys in legacy landwell
you know how do they how do you determine how hedge funds performing you
know how do you determine how
uh... family office is doing or an individual
you know are you beating the benchmarks you know are you outperforming that of
the s and p five hundred or the nasdaq because if you're not
consistently outperforming
uh... these benchmarks than you might as well just mindlessly dollar-cost average
uh... just like the rest the population right or you know dial in your skill
where i'm really focused right now is which all coins are are sort of popping
off and where these rotations are happening because
for those of us that have been around for more than you know couple cycles
you recognize the signs of these all kind of rotations and we're starting to
see the writing on the wall
meet today is actually a prime example and hopefully continues but
media is up a percent a half earlier today was up to two-and-a-half i think
almost three percent of the highs
bitcoins half a percent red
when i look at the e p t c chart
it's kind of a meat grinder
right if we're being honest
he's been you know severely lagging that a big plan and a lot of other all
there seems to be a stubbornness not only to break out to the upside again on
but also a very prominent stubbornness to break down below point oh five one
so you have that that that duality of it you know it's stubborn but i'm
interpreting it right now as
i think the sellers of kind of enough quote-unquote run out of the cell
maybe not literally right but i i think that there is a certain degree of
for a theory of against its bitcoin pair here
all right that doesn't mean bitcoins a bad investment not at all bitcoin is
i'm simply talking about the cyclical rotations
you know if you know where to look
you can do you can kinda seem common you know within a few weeks or so
what i'm really interested in is is when bitcoin takes its next
leg up when it marks up to fifty five sixty k
typically what we'll see is one more spike in bitcoin dominance
then we'll see a kind of like
you know you turn immediately from that that local top
capitulate to new lows and then you'll get all season so actually
contrary to you know popular belief you know maybe not in these rooms but a lot
when bitcoin makes a new all-time high is actually what i don't want to own
that's what i want to rotate in all coins for those that are looking to
outperform and you know try to time rotations which is not for everybody by
but that's something that i spent a lot of my time on a wabi spends a lot of
a lot of guys in the because bitcoin discord community that's really what we
uh... and we do have a you know a solid track record and use of years of
experience doing it so it's it's different
but yeah i mean look what when bitcoin makes an all-time high
just overlay the doge chart
typically within a couple weeks bitcoin dominance will will start
start to go absolutely not eat btc will go absolutely not
and then you'll start to see a rotation in the like the smaller caps like
the newer quote-unquote blue chip all coin projects
uh... meme coins all the shit coins right all that fun stuff
that happens when bitcoin goes in the price discovery so it's like
you know what do you what do you want to do here you you could buy bitcoin as a
break through sixty nine k goes to seventy k makes an all-time high
maybe you hit in the short term you know two extra three acts which is a
fantastic return by the way and if i had a billion dollars i'd probably be doing
that but i'd i'd twenty eight years old i don't have a billion dollars
i'm looking to chase a little bit of beta and i think we are getting up into
uh... but of course you have to recognize that like
tommy said this to me the other day
and it's a really salient points i'm gonna repeat it here
the higher we go without a pullback
ultimately the deeper the pullback will be when it finally comes because pullbacks
so you know everybody wants to cheer on up only up only up only you know
i would rather have this like mechanical little stair step up where
you know every night i go to bed prices are bleeding i wake up larry fink turned
on the bid you know or the bio go
right i'm kind of you know
there's an entertainment factor to what i just said but there's some truth to it
uh... but either way i mean bitcoin ranging about fifty k between fifty to
i mean that is that is absolutely fantastic
ethereum hanging out at twenty eight hundred
in that swing failed that we had or that retest at twenty two hundred
was fantastic guys you absolutely love to see that so
i'm actually prospecting a lot more all coin strength and longs uh... in the
next few weeks that i am bitcoin
bearishness or bearish sentiment around bitcoin whatsoever
it's just that i play these rotations i've been playing them for years
i can recognize the writing on the wall
you know maybe bitcoin dips back into fifty k we build a little bit of
support some confirmation around their east goes back to twenty seven hundred
and i think when you spring out of that next low that forms maybe tonight maybe
tomorrow next week i don't really know whatever happens
i think you're gonna you're gonna see your leaders be like you know the alt
the quote-unquote shit coins you know
say suey baby salon uh... hopefully each shows some strength
uh... you know a lot of these new projects looking pretty promising anyways
i could go on forever i'll kick it back to you wabi but yeah happy to be here
max let me ask you this man do you think this time is different
in the sense that you have someone that is basically doing
some somewhat on chain kiwi
right and if history is any indication right
you know we are going to a more i don't want a macro larp here but
uh... if history is any indication when fed cuts
uh... policy gets easier and capital
becomes more easier to access
would you say that what we're seeing with larry fink is simply just
a taste of what's to come in twenty twenty five
during the post having year which once again if history is any indication
that's the year where quote-unquote retail comes back
and you have parabolic froth
so i i've been entertaining uh... scenario that we might have a slightly
expedited cycle this time around
though if that means like a shortened cycle time wise uh...
but i guess i spent a lot of my days
you know really focusing on like this
the bitcoin cycles and and the timing of all of it
we are technically a little bit ahead of of the previous two cycles guys like two
it isn't much right we're talking about you know multi-year like bull market to
bear market parabolas uh... and re-accumulations but
it is noticeable right like if you know where to look i've got some tweets on
you can go find them on my uh... on my timeline but
uh... of where we have been in previous cycles and
you know that the big question is do we pressure the bitcoin all-time high
uh... the previous all-time high before the bitcoin having which of course has
and i would say it's possible we don't have a lot of time right it's already
february fifteenth we have about two months
just over two months uh... until the bitcoin having so
twenty seconds so yeah i think we actually have nine weeks exactly from
so we don't have a whole lot of time but i certainly think it's possible
uh... i don't really think it matters too much though i don't think it matters if
we pressure the previous all-time high before bitcoin having because i know
what's going to come after
or at least i'm very convicted in what comes after
and i think you did bring up a good point as well that
you know this this cycle is in fact different right every cycle is different
you know we like to kind of mean about it back and forth you know people that
say this time is different
it's never different but the truth of the matter is on a more granular level
every single cycle is different
you know i could point out uh...
your technical factors that were different about
the twenty twenty one bull market than the twenty seventeen one
you know or the bear markets right a lot of them are different from one another
they rhyme but they're different
and one very prominent difference
about this cycle is that we have a new
payment rail we have a new on ramp into crypto
you know for the first time obviously
that have his uh... previously had
uh... a little bit more caution or hesitation about
getting exposed uh... to bitcoin but maybe they were curious
now have a you know a certain sense of regulatory clarity uh... an institutional
that one that they're comfortable with in my opinion they shouldn't be right i
would prefer to try to custody all of my assets if i can
but for most people you know it's a daunting task to think about
what if i lose my keys you know i don't even know how to set up a a hardware
wallet right that could be scary and then they read the the horror story
propaganda that gets put out by some journalists about
uh... you know all this guy he lost ten thousand bitcoin you know on his hard
drive and he's trying to you know literally like literally mind them out
of an old dump and you know
it's like these crazy stories that you hear they turn off a lot of people
uh... but now for the first time i mean you you are seeing
uh... you are seeing in real time i mean half a billion dollars plus a day
and i mean this is real bitcoin this isn't paper bitcoin i mean this is
uh... and i mean if you really try to break it down like what percent of the
it's it's quite astonishing and potentially even alarming for those that
understand where wick where to look at how to interpret it
i think it's it's something like seventy percent of all bitcoin is already
and in long-term holder hands
you have institutions like two or three times
accumulating bitcoin more than miners are
you know basically mining every single day
you know i i might be frankenstein in those numbers a little bit i read the i
read the report on it like
but it it's crazy you know we're on the verge of a supply squeeze but i do see
matt has his hand up some that you feel
feel free i feel like you probably know this this information that i'm that i'm
you're largely right uh...
yeah i i do is is matt speaking max yeah i don't know matt matt is speaking
you can hear more of the i'll even come yeah yeah yeah matt he's he's gonna
even come back we'll just give him a second
he'll pop right back in okay
guys in the meantime if you guys can open up the chat re-tweet the room really
helps out with the algo i see there's almost two hundred people in here if we
re-tweets guys that would be awesome only takes a few seconds
yet mad just requested i'd love to get um... i'd love to get gary appears well
gary if you're uh... if you're free i'll send you an invite would love to get
again nope no pressure if you're uh... if you're able to speak note no problem
but i did send you an invite gary if you'd like to come on up
yeah matt if you want to do a mike check we can see if uh... while we can hear
so i mean i know we've talked about this
i agree with max you know uh... every cycle uh... sure does
have a lot of similarities and rhymes of the past
over and over about how much i'm reminded of the twenty fifteen twenty
everything from literally the double bottom
everything from the bear market in twenty fifteen twenty sixteen
lasted almost exactly the same length of time that this one did two hundred and
interesting similarities i also see the uh...
raise the glass ceiling on how high this uh...
asset can go dollar value this cycle
very similar to twenty fifteen twenty sixteen where
in the past you know everyone was having to mess with mount gox
but then you had going base all the sudden
uh... come on the scene for
a lot of money flooded into it
back in twenty fourteen twenty fifteen twenty sixteen
i firmly believe that raised the glass ceiling on how high bitcoin could have
gone back then in that cycle you finally have an onshore u.s.
the shady offshore offshore exchanges and so similar to this time finally
uh... tradfi and family offices and hedge funds and etcetera they have
you know everyone from blackrock to fidelity to ibit to etcetera
to get exposure to bitcoin
it's definitely rate gonna raise our max ceiling
and it's sure fascinating watching
uh... like you said uh... daily minor flows cannot possibly satisfy
the bitcoin ETFs appetite
uh... day after day week after week max which is great because
good that makes them have to go out to OTC desks and OTC desks have to go out to
exchanges and buy all that bitcoin that's just sitting out there on
it's in the millions on exchanges
doesn't matter as long as you're buying it
as long as some of it is getting bought
price is going to go up over a medium long-term time
i'm definitely medium term long-term
uh... in the short term uh... i am fully
uh... maybe one or two more twenty percent corrections for the rest of
twenty twenty four we all remember the several
corrections we had ever since the lows of uh...
twenty twenty two twenty three twenty twenty three was full of
negative twenty percent corrections and every single time it happened
everyone was uh... doom panicking
it took a long time for people to recognize that actually we're just
we're just going from level to level to level
we just had another twenty percent correction
with uh... with the spot before uts yeah go ahead
not not not to interject here man but
did you see coinbase earnings brother
i'm looking at it right now dude
they crushed earnings by over twenty
percent expected revenue uh... yeah
no so so their their estimate yeah it was
uh... eight hundred and twenty six point three mil
and they brought in almost
of uh... over a quarter billion or
a little over a dollar per share
of twenty twenty two right
that that that is actually
of twenty twenty two they had a loss of just over
sunshine and rainbows and
i'm hammering this on the show man for the last like couple weeks now since we
right because three years ago when we eclipsed forty k
you can go onto youtube or tick tock or twitter without seeing a broccoli
a broccoli haircut zoomer talk about what crypto he bought
and now it's just you know still within
are in closed bubble right btc a thirty percent pump away
from retesting the all-time high ends
barely a single peep out there yep and i'm uh...
i think we were talking about this two weeks ago or might have been last month
but i was trying to say bitcoin is the most misunderstood asset
to think that having high
it doesn't matter if you actually believe in the
supplies please the system that having does it that doesn't matter we simply
submit to the narrative and there was no way that having high
rocketed off of forty forty one k straight to fifty two k
and and it's not even done yet
uh... to uh... to your earlier point wabi i feel like
you know you you've got a lot of veterans and og's
and people who have been in the space talking about having and what is fact
just wait till cnbc and bloomberg
i'm you know i'm very bullish medium long-term
matt and what are you leaning towards to right if you've got
topping in half a billion dollars a day
and it seems week over week that daily twap just get stronger and stronger
what are your thoughts as far as
now compared to how they were a couple of months back when i mean i'd love
well i i'd love for us to retest all-time high
see we're already we're already flirting with resistance right here fifty three
k is the top of the range right here right now
uh... i i think having hypo absolutely punch a hole through that
but then call it thirty days after or forty five days after the having
i have a feeling we consolidate right back to here
and retest this as support
uh... if you pull up twenty sixteen the exact same phenomenon happened about
forty five days out you had this massive pump just straight up candles
and then forty five days after you can start you drained down you consolidated
right back to where you were
that it's okay a lot medium term long-term who cares
but short-term just keep that in mind
it's not the time to leverage your house is not the time to
pull out that second or third personal loan
uh... so if you make a plan for both scenarios i think you'll be fine
but it related to this related to this we we're talking about this
fifty two week highs all-time highs nazda same thing all your blue chips
they're all either making new fifty two week highs or all-time high so money is
moving farther out on the risk curve
and i mean pull up the russell two thousand
that is screaming for a break out
it's been in a multi-year consolidation going back all the way to early twenty
and it is absolutely on this on the verge
of a legit break out uh... and
bitcoin lives out on the risk curve
so as money is tired of buying
six hundred thousand dollar all-time high berkshire share
they it moves farther on the risk curve and that's what they couldn't lives
and that would be a site brother that would be a site for my bags
to the coinbase i p o p i kinda feel mad that like
point is doing an i p o three years ago man so
we'll see man will see and i think
a lot of people are going to be shaking out and probably wiped out on leverage
post having turned that initial that bright
like we always talk about all i can't wait for the bull market
like little do people know when you're in the moment during a bull market
greed is a hell of a thing
and people sometimes forget that spot and chill is the way to go
and that leverage button is meant to be used as a tool
and during access froth right that leverage button sure looks pretty but
you know if you've taken a look at the price action and in uh... early january
like these are majors the top
would would basically start small
at twenty percent range within a thirty minute candle
yeah it is just so it's just so important to go back into
prior cycles pastor bitcoin just so you get a mental idea of what to expect
and again i'll bring up the twenty sixteen fractal because
uh... the coin sure did seem to repeat
it's bear market so it's it's useful to look at it in the bull market
that bull market in twenty sixteen going into twenty seventeen was absolutely
with thirty to forty percent corrections
uh... i think i think i remember like a dozen of them easily in two years
thirty and forty percent corrections in every single time
felt the panic everyone's like odd not we're going to retest a thousand
or five hundred or or no no this is
uh... but no it was relentless we almost flirted with twenty k
i have a feeling it's just gonna keep on doing that this bull market too we've
is about twenty percent so you should expect
minimum those types of pullbacks
the longer we go on uh... again we just had that
less than a couple weeks ago with the ETF launch
where everyone was calling for twenty k again
just keep it in your mind i'm not trying to tell you all de-risk here sell here
buy back later or whatever
you just need to make your own mental plan
that was our first ten k candle correction
are we corrected by ten thousand bucks right
it's going to be crazy man to see corrections
twenty thousand twenty five thousand dollars on it
he said local high that's going to be right when we when we ricochet when we
ricochet off one hundred k and flirt with eighty one k
like people had kind of crap their pants
just be mentally prepared
yeah yeah that that that initial rejection is probably going to be
either at ninety k or ninety five k i kind of feel that like
shortly before we go to a hundred k i think that's going to be like
i think that's going to be what
in twenty seventeen where we kinda
tested and we went back down to like sixty five hundred
uh... i wasn't active at the market at the time i just looked at the chart
right after i got into the market which was at the top
now when they connect fell i started looking at charts and all that stuff
this thing doesn't just go straight up in a straight line but uh...
i think there is up here man when i get some thoughts from him gary what's
going on brother welcome back how are you today
what up players has everybody doing
fantastic man other day in paradise to talk markets man in the luckiest man in
yeah i agree with you buddy
i'm really lucky cuz i just heard matt tell me that uh... i don't have to pay a
premium that bitcoin brings like i think this is one of the greatest things about
if we look at slightly different
got it wants to be a value investor
we're not possibly going to compete with the
this kind of money right so twenty and thirty percent pullbacks when we know
we should be able to plan us a program so we're buying in those spots
usually fits with most people i know that make money right like i've got to
make money to buy more bitcoin
what can i sell what can i sell
should've done this shit three years ago what can i sell that
would allow me to go into bitcoin at forty grand
plow another million in it
whatever i could sell that trophy car
because the performance here the upside potential here
in history and i've been doing this a little while you guys are
just have front row seats man
uh... and what's the downside
pretty decent return while i wait
uh... i think i think that this is right so
or should be so impressive to everyone
gary and talking about the inflows
did it shock you compared to your thoughts you know that you had six
or did you have a gut feeling that
gary would just be hammering the ask right and
it's wild to think that all this buying pressure is coming from
right all eyes on think now too
i guess be the michael sailor
yeah but not see not see i don't really look at that way i i think they're like
and and that's all they're really they're facilitating
uh... highway flows so the government can watch everything in
like i i think these guys are going to be good for this market
uh... cuz the they have a much bigger play in tokenization than just big
so i and and i don't think they're going to ruin their multi trillion dollar
some fees i mean it's just
maybe some sneaky stuff in the background but
it quite frankly for the last
fourteen years this industry is already been
okay all we're doing is changing where the power is
and i i do think there is a structural change as of the last three weeks
where the amount of money and the volume
and then the the real question we should be asking
how long is this going to continue
it continues for a long time there's a hundred and eighty ish days working days
what's the analysis you want to do
there's a one percent allocation to a quarter
a quarter a quarter billion of buying pressure
that that's basically what a sixty percent reduction
and how the daily flows of them so
if we just continue that right half of the inflows that we've been
that basically puts us at an all-time high going to the summertime
and if we continue the current flow
roughly half a billion per day
at an all-time high basically right around the having
well let's even let's even pretend like it's not that much it just does twenty
percent of what it's doing right now
thousand a hundred million dollars a day
what is that eleven billion
i'm not on a calculator about a hundred about a about
about a hundred mill hundred eighty days of a hundred million day being
yet that that that's like tens of billions yes i think it's eleven billion
see how else are we going to get to fifty
in order to get to a multi-trillion dollar market cap
get to a multi-trillion dollar market cap right
well we are going to so uh... max brought up a good point
there's a lot of the pointers
for one reason or another the higher the price goes
uh... you unlock some sellers
people like max want to go farther out on the risk curve
uh... and realize some profits
the other people are you know what for whatever reason they bought sixty k in
twenty twenty one in a finally breaking back even in
okay i'm out of this thing like this is it
i couldn't take it out and so that you know they're running away
the higher price goes for whatever reason we will unlock
uh... different cohorts of sellers as we go along
i'll just touch on that real quick so
in one sense i'm a bitcoin maxi right i i have a a core fundamental belief that
bitcoin out of all the digital assets that i've seen is the only
concrete store of value digital money whatever whatever you can determine it
it's the only asset that i can find at this point that i have
will be here five hundred years from now i don't know exactly what it'll be
but i i have confidence in the asset to know
a million dollars into this thing
i've got a more likely than not chance that one you know it's not going to just
and to its got a pretty pretty
darn good chance of being significantly higher and appreciate against the u.s.
over multiple decades i can't really say with confidence the same about a lot of
these other crypto assets i think summer may be promising
we'll see how they develop with time but you really cannot go toe-to-toe with
the decentralized nature of bitcoin it was a gift given to humanity by satoshi
whoever he or they i guess or she was okay we don't know
uh... you really can't compete with that
some people might call it like kinda get cute with bitcoin right is i guess i'm a
trader you know like i have
core positions that i prefer not to touch
you know i'm i'm also twenty eight years old and
i'm a trader and i'm looking to
spend more time than most is my full-time job right besides running and
building because bitcoin with wabi and my team
you know i'm a trader and i pull income from these markets including bitcoin to
like gary was was mentioning this is volatility that we don't have to pay a
premium for it's actually expected and we work it into our models that we don't
and there's no contango or decay
you know uh... there's no fated decay on spot bitcoin and
and there's no contango like three times leverage q q q e t f s
it's the apex asset of the world so from a trader's perspective
it doesn't really get much better than bitcoin
you know it really doesn't
and then you go out further on the risk curve and you start looking at a theory
i mean you say wow that's
that's interesting it's even more volatile than than bitcoin and
oh interesting i can kinda time this thing out
and then you go even further out you've got meme coins
you know the dog coins the new altcoin projects the micro caps
and you're in traders paradise and even like swing trader paradise right
where you recognize that when bitcoin makes a new all-time high
that's kind of the market saying confidently okay
it's real especially when it times out with you know the bitcoin having which
so right around the bitcoin having bitcoin makes new all-time high
that's basically bitcoin the king
telling all these other all coins alright it's time to go out of the risk
curve you can start moving now you know
and it's it's just me narrating i don't really care what happens right but i'm
a decade well not quite a decade right a lot of coins are not a decade old but
you know five to seven years of price history
comparing and contrasting bitcoin against certain all coins
or now as we call them dino coins these all coins that have been around for
these rotations happen as bitcoin begins to pressure its all-time high so
i don't like to become a seller of bitcoin right i don't i wish i didn't
have to ever sell bitcoin right
and i prefer not to have to trade you know if i was
if i already had an established career with a ton of money behind me you know
i'm talking tens and tens of millions of dollars
and i was looking to just build a portfolio into retirement
it's gonna go into spot bitcoin and it's never gonna leave spot bitcoin
and by the way i help certain individuals in my real life accomplished
there's some opportunities that i deem
you know even though my philosophical core belief is that bitcoin is the
just because bitcoin is the better asset doesn't mean it's going to
outperform the new worthless vaporware shit coin
and that's the unfortunate reality of of these markets is that
bitcoin is the best store of value but
poop coin number one is probably going to pull 50x multiple over whatever
and uh... you know a lot of us young guys are looking to play those
uh... for better for worse right so you know
i hope that a lot of people with my mindset
you know let let me put it this way i hope that the institutional buyers
don't have my same mindset because then bitcoin's probably gonna get stuffed at
uh... but at the same time i can assure you they do not have your mindset
i think i think you're right max does represent a real
large cohort of bitcoin voters that do have to make
the off of these holdings
uh... it my point wasn't what max personally is going to then
profits and buy it's just that there's a there's a lot of people out there
that also have to sell bitcoin to pay the bills and make money
and do right by their clients
but the higher it is a real simple
just keep in mind the higher we go with price wise the more
but and and and to that point though i i think we have so much higher to go with
bitcoin and everything and i and i do think that everybody's price targets are
i was kind of franken steining together a a point earlier where
you know that the institutional demand thus far
four-spot bitcoin has been two or three times
what miners are actually freeing up on a daily basis so far
when the bitcoin having occurs in sixty days
you know that number becomes even more you know heavily weighted towards a
or minor block rewards are going to get cut in half at about sixty days and of
you do the math right i mean we're talking about
demand that is six seven eight times potentially as much as there is
available supply being freed up every single day now i know it's not one to
one there's other factors that come into play
but you are talking about i mean a serious issue for
you know institutional investors high net worth individuals that want to own
bitcoin there is a small window of time when it's actually feasible because
in the truth of the matter is after the bitcoin having you might see
like the parabola you were talking about that like the twenty fourteen through
uh... or what was it that the twenty seventeen cycle
or twenty fifteen through twenty seventeen
uh... yeah twenty twenty sixteen twenty seventeen those two years just like a
clean parabola right you know the the the bull market that we had in twenty
twenty one was i mean is pretty the first half of it was pretty
it was it was a little choppy right uh... i'd i'd be more favorable clean
you know at the end of the day it's uh...
i think that everybody's price targets are potentially you know way too low and
with our community is that
you know we we we have this inherent glass ceiling on sort of what is
and i tell the story a lot so forgive me if you've already heard a couple times
years back i was driving to chicago i live in minnesota i was driving to
chicago with a buddy for the weekend
and i was on my uh... my t d m air trade thinkorswim app
and it was right as apple
was about to cross the one trillion market cap
territory for the first time ever
and i remember saying to him i was like oh sam this is crazy man this is i can't
a publicly traded companies worth a trillion dollars that is insane man
that's insane i was like i would never buy apple here like that's just
oh man i i mean at the time i didn't you know i didn't have much money or
anything but it's just like i would never buy a company worth a trillion
and then what what what did it reach you know recently i mean it's like
two-and-a-half times that at least i don't know the exact market cap but
point being is it took multiple decades for apple to go from zero to a trillion
to go to two trillion plus
so a lot of people are looking at bitcoin going alright you know it's
already worth a trillion dollars like it's really expensive
yeah man i just can't even imagine maybe it goes to two trillion you know that
that that'd be interesting you know what you have to keep cheap his house
on every neighborhood in every city man
you know the the old rule about real estate right
welfare pay by the cheapest home in the neighborhood
yeah don't buy the most expensive bitcoin is the absolute cheapest home
in the wealthiest neighborhoods in the world
getting ready to be coming to a theater near you do
i i like that i i think that's a really good point
because people are viewing bitcoin like an individual megacap tech company it's
i mean bitcoin should be compared and contract is an industry did
okay i mean just wrap up the whole industry up this is i think we have to
because and and to me the analogy of facebook and
uh... bitcoin are quite similar in that
there are a lot of people talking about bitcoin like it's a lot of gravity
occurring i would not met you guys
there can't be possibly a dollar value between
that you and i paying for that brought us together yet you get my point so
they're worth one point three billion
and how much of that is network effect or community
you know i think we start punching through some of these
right and that's what to me which is like we're on this big race and we're
uh... closing out players
until we get to the three trillion dollars
which will then get us to the six
trillion which i think we need to hit on goal not to thirteen
and look what goals doing
didn't take much for bitcoin to
man we have money flowing here that the only thing i'm worried about
and you didn't ask for advice but
uh... i would not be a thousand percent convinced that
the cycles we've seen before
or not going to be terribly disrupted by this polar shift
because this money man this is not crypto bro money
this is three hundred grand
thirty million three million per family
uh... in their in for five years did like they have no interest in a look at
price unless they're going to review to do more
as an industry is ever seen this type of volume
and i'm saying it could last through the end of the year quite easily
uh... if we don't freak you know go spiky
that i think would scare people
offers a huge opportunity for us if we're smart and able to catch the dips
like my preferred situation is that
i'm not sure taking off four hundred fifty
coins a day is going to have a massive impact the next day
mean we we we handled the grayscale volume and we're handling the demand
we moved a ten thousand dollar ban
thought we were gonna go test thirty eight
i mean this is surprise everybody i know
uh... so i think we could have you know it'd be worth
i think we have a different beast man
i mean this is like a twelve-year-old he has become uh...
the prince is becoming a king
and you might not want to fuck with him he might change his mind do something a
little crazy and that's one thing you guys have taught me about bitcoin
when everybody thinks they know what bitcoin's gonna do it does something
different and it does seem to have that kind of iran irony to it
gary i have a question for you
uh... you seem pretty tapped into the institutional mindset
and probably because of your network and i mean yourself honestly but
do you anticipate some of these higher net worth players or institutions moving
further out on the risk curve and dabbling with altcoins or do you think
it's going to be strictly bitcoin
well that's kind of why like if i look at the having thing i think we could
heavy-duty before the having
well could have little to no effect on the news
and then what if you get clarity
and by that time you'll have clarity but
they either say hey they're gonna rush it
and it's gonna launch in may
is that a good scenario for the altcoin world i think it's a good scenario for
you gotta expect if it doesn't happen in may it's gonna happen in october
the reason i'm going there is i if i were people i would be planning
for one of those two events to occur and put right in front of the having
that we have tax payments too
case that we could see a dip
uh... just through tax payments being made
so to me that would be the most beautiful scenario do because i think you
complete nine to twelve months of price appreciation on bitcoin
under any of those scenarios
and i don't i don't think the families are going to go touch a bunch of that
uh... the the guys that are advising them
they're they're not really gonna want to push that man
plus they can look at forty percent
return go ahead that's cool
that would really boost the ethereum
same advisers that just put some family into three million dollars bitcoins up
four-and-a-half million now
they're gonna supercharge the ethereum ETF if that's their performance in
april or may and it should be
the there's a lot of money moving into the ETF right now and getting priced
you know got priced at forty bucks
uh... i want to touch something that max had said
about apple eclipsing a trillion dollars in market cap
that occurred in late q one of twenty nineteen and apple right now
is close to three times as that right so
in market cap and right now btc sits at a trillion
since uh... the all-time high
if you're having the traffic money actual traffic money
come into crypto now that there's quote unquote clarity whatever that means
i honestly think that if these inflows continue
btc by the end of the year quite honestly man
i still think that this cycle
is going to play out like the rest where you'll probably have some sort of blow
i'd just think that the bear market will likely look
not only from a time perspective but also from a drawdown
uh... and mean if you just if you guys just take a look at what happened in
in june of twenty twenty two
only two months into the bear market because in q one of twenty twenty two
btc rallied to almost fifty k and all coins were doing tremendous right
a bunch of cosmo's tokens hit all-time high luna hit all-time high
avax and soul were really that far off all-time high
i think avax was still trading above over uh... a hundred dollars
in march of twenty twenty two
i think bear markets might look
it'll probably only be like
within within like six months and then gradually
uh... will start to trail back up because there's there's a there's a
liquidity backstop i think now
with uh... with these inflows and
i don't really think what occurred in twenty twenty two is going to happen
the same degree where crypto natives end up blowing up the ecosystem
if anything it'll probably be like one of these e t f custodians that
decides to hold funds on their own instead of trusting
institutions like a coin base i think coin base is actually
the custodian for like ninety ninety ish percent
uh... that are currently live so
uh... gary what are your thoughts as far as like how bear markets
might look like in the future uh... for bitcoin
well pay listen just on that like you mentioned coin base the icy coin base is
a really good token trade for somebody wants to
not play bitcoin play the industry i'd to me it's better than some of these
tokens because it's got so much supporting it
right i mean just got and it's got
blessing from the from the bishop in the in the pope
first off i'll take a hundred bucks okay i just wanna
pop you this little thing
i'll do a hundred bucks with you just as a gentleman
that we pierced a hundred grand before the end of the year
whether we stay there or not
i'm in agreement i i think i think we pierced
uh... a hundred k if the inflows continue
just as they are right now
i i i well they have to they have to that that they have to continue
look man these spickets these are like dams okay this is the value i bring you
y'all have never seen money like this okay these people terrify me when i go
okay they're terrifying okay once they're in
they're in for two and a half mil man
and then they'll review it and they'll be some people
you're gonna see people walking in here buying three to ten bitcoin
it just is a family that's going to be a small acquisition
because they they don't they don't
everybody keeps talking about the one percent allocation
hey these are super wealthy people
okay they're not going to deploy thirty thousand dollars
if their portfolios a hundred grand okay they might
that group of people might make an allocation
but no one's showing up to a family that's worth a hundred million dollars
and hey let's poke fifty grand at this so we can send your lawyers
a bunch of reports all year
and we charge and feed the shit out of you
like they're going to put two million five million ten million twenty million
into the deal and leave it there
i mean you want to see hot
and gary fun little fact i'm sure you know this but
i think there's estimated to be about sixty million
millionaires in the world
sixty two yeah alright so there's a
there's not enough bitcoin for everybody right let's say every millionaire wants
well we already know there's billionaires that own over a hundred
michael sailor being one of them micro strategy controls a hundred ninety
his personal stack is probably another thirty thousand fifty thousand bitcoin i
so what happens when repeat
the irony of all of it is that
and it kind of feels like you're late because you've been here for a little
but bitcoin sub two hundred fifty k
unironically is is very very early because this is this is trad fives first
your first cycle that twenty fifteen twenty six hundred cost man a medium
oh yeah these two fifty billion this is a piece of real estate that has
parallels in in real estate terms you start at like
games changed about how the products used
it's gonna morph into then it can morph into real estate
like it this thing has like it's gonna be like this is why i have the octopus if
you guys have ever seen these little interviews i do
the octopus man he's got like three brains
he's got his hands and everything this is bitcoin
it's been my little code for bitcoin it's just super smart
it gets more intelligent you cannot stop it or contain it
it's the perfect emblem really
i think you all you got you guys gonna be surprised what's getting ready to
i really do i've been surveying a lot of people and i think
i don't know if you've ever seen a waterfall
uh... or or dam break but i think you can see a dam break and i think it's
because that this money is going to move in smaller tears
to medium-sized tears to then big gorilla tears
and it doesn't care like you and i
they're they're they're insensitive to the price they'd be happy about it a
hundred eighty grand that was the average price
it's uh... it's nothing that you mentioned parallels to real estate and
half-decade of my uh... my professional career i started a property management
acquired about two hundred units with uh... with a friend of mine from college
did a couple development deals and i found bitcoin
and i completely divested from
i still own a couple buildings uh... that are passively managed i don't
you know i don't play a huge role in a day-to-day i get small dividends from
when i went down the bitcoin rabbit hole uh... i knew i had to get more
you know it's interesting you know hearing you compare it to real estate
i wanna share some thoughts i'm i'm sure you've discussed them and i know that
uh... some real estate investments as well and and i know that you're
you know your family specifically your brother
uh... of course is a pretty large presence online with his real estate
i'm actually not sure you guys in that together i know you guys do a lot of
is is that uh... a joint thing that you guys do together now we don't do
oh no no that's okay i was one of his i was probably his first investor
and i've been in the fun for a long time but i don't add to it
it's not that i don't think it's a great
private equity companies are a builder company
and and it's just a different
different cash it's different it's a completely different strategy
uh... grants business is very very uh... shall i say
boring boring business uh... real estate that does not mean that hasn't made you
know many billionaires private equities made more billionaires than than uh...
uh... we're witness to where we go with that
acts when i was going to suggest chaos i'm supposed to be hosting a show at
can you guys tweet out just have those guys show up here we merge the two
groups i don't know how long you plan on going
yeah we we can go on brother sometimes the show's go on for four hours why don't
we instead of me like sucking off for you guys what we do is we just do some
kind of push maybe everybody could follow me and go look at the link at
everybody come here we're going to do a gang time six eastern time so fifteen
yeah that's right but whatever the link says in gary cordon it's a six p.m.
i do that every third world instead of me won't worry about that from uh...
worry about that from because they're going to say well uh... let's bring gary
up as a co-host wabi she can
yes about i'll do that i'll uh... already to him but
compare contrast real estate bitcoin right i mentioned that i you know i
spent the first five years of my career i fell in love with real estate and what
i loved about it gary you mentioned this is
operationally got to know what you're doing but from an investing perspective
if you've got a good property manager it's really just it's simple addition
subtraction and division right
you know what what am i bringing grows what are my operating expenses what's
my operating expense ratio
uh... you know what's my what's my r o i right and there you can break it down a
little bit more granular than that but just for the sake of time
volume matters very much in uh... apartments and real estate you're
talking about so that's for sure and and what i what i really appreciated about
multifamily investing specifically
was that you could more or less map out your returns for a decade in advance and
you know but you get pretty close
i appreciated that from a stability standpoint
you're also investing right now buying into
you know multifamily apartment buildings
a much more mature asset class
as a young man i like i mentioned really i'm i'm twenty eight years old
i didn't quite see the opportunity in real estate that i see in an emerging
asset and asset class being bitcoin and crypto
there's a couple things that i that i think real estate beats bitcoin at but
it's being worked on presently one
bitcoin is difficult to access
your equity unless you unless you decide to sell your crypto right it's
extremely difficult to in a safe manner
draw against your equity what did we see last like we saw block five go down we
saw celsius go down we saw voyager go down we saw ftx
a lot of these decentralized you know lending protocols or even it you know i
mentioned ftx in exchange
you know they they attempted to solve the two major issues one bitcoin
doesn't have a native yield and two
how do you borrow against your equity you know in an interest only cheap
fashion like a home equity line of credit
there's not been a decentralized way to go about that there's certain l twos or
you know people are working with right now to make that possible
where it's possible right now is right i mean
there's bitcoin ets you can borrow against your equity from your broker
you know interest only and draw against your uh... draw against your liquidity
ultra wealthy people don't sell assets they don't want to incur the tax hit
you just you buy something that appreciates over multiple decades and
then you borrow against it
you don't pay capital gains on debt
you know where does real estate you you you don't pay your you for your
groceries with with bitcoin gas
i heard a man say that earlier i'm like dude why would you do that
and i always say that you hear i don't want to spend my bitcoin a lot of people
have this dream of hyper bitcoinization where they're spending bitcoin to buy
i just want to appreciate forever against my my d base dollar and i can
borrow against it in like a home equity line of credit fashion
if it just gets there it see that's all the wealthy will want
so you just sold me on why the wealthy will pay
four hundred five hundred grand for this
that's all they care about and they don't care about self custody in fact
they don't want to self custody
they want somebody else to do it for them
so then it feeds a whole industry of lawyers and
accountants and auditors and
and so there's a massive industry that protects it and guess where the price goes
oh my gosh it goes from five hundred thousand to seven fifty
then they'll compare this to the Berkshire Hathaway
fund that started at you know a hundred bucks and ended up
who knows where it is today
i have yet to find anyone that has a downside
no matter how you hold it
it's really staggering and that
kind of tells me that we're all underestimating the way that's going to
i don't want to jump in real quick on that point gary
i was on the space with a lot of
krypto native folks that i
be the right quote you might not be the right person asked but just for the
there was an argument the downside argument to bitcoin was
acceleration of quantum computing and how that could kind of break
cryptography of bitcoin i'm just curious like
is that actually a concern like
say the technology is ten fifteen years out
what do the bitcoin like maximalists think of like that argument
what was that a question for for gary
or is that there is anybody i think any like wabi max feel free to jump in on i
i don't know maybe gary if you have a little bit there's a guy requesting to
speak his name is the real
the real shot two fifty six he might have an answer for you
i think we could just bump it up to five twelve couldn't we
uh... i'll give my thoughts man on uh...
you're going to hear guys i'll give my thoughts on like
the whole quantum computing thing
i think that is going to be a market that's tradeable just like a i stocks
and i talk into all that stuff
it's just a matter of one
and will cross that bridge
trade for a quote-unquote value
it was all about you know industrial stocks
and then going into the nineties it was all about tech stocks
in the two thousands it was you know uh... like land real estate
you know back to industrials and things like that
and then going into the two thousands it was all about tech
and going into the twenty twenties it was all about
digitization of everything
and i think going into you know twenty thirties and beyond
it'll probably be some form
of uh... of a i whether it's quantum computing stocks or tokens or whatever
it's going to be reminiscent of this asset class and
i don't i really don't think crypto is going anywhere to be honest i think
crypto right now is basically like investing in america post world war two
this thing is going to go up into the right
that those those those are my thoughts i tend
about doom scenarios or anything like that cuz
in every market there's always some sort of like two thousand and eight event and
you know these track five guys and they're they're good for now but
i seriously don't doubt that one of them
get destroyed at some point cuz it happens every like
every twenty years every twenty years there's always some like catastrophe
in financial markets and cryptos not susceptible
i mean crypto is not like
invulnerable to that right so
uh... yeah just play it i just play it
i don't really think about that stuff
uh... what about chill or max or gary what are your thoughts on that stuff
i don't have anything to concrete on i'm certainly not the best person to
uh... i would agree while the i i guess i don't hyper focus on it too much i
suppose it's possible but
uh... i think if there was
actor the encryption could be attacked
that's something i don't know i mean i don't even see i don't know enough about
like supercomputers to even
formulate an argument on that right like i i guess i lean on other people that
cream you ask the question do you do you have concerns about it i mean that's not
really where my focus there's been out
it could i just poke in here it is the uh...
see i didn't say anything on to the question cuz i uh... i really will
struggle with the question itself
let's go out of our way to come up with a scenario
like if i worry about everything and i'm not gonna get out of my bed
like they could drop the mps all over us tomorrow morning and we're all
but we should've been talking about firewood
we have to like have some faith
that that and i do think it goes back to my last answer which was the bigger this
the less it will be want to be
like you you're buying your way into the club now
we should be happy we're getting into the club
and gary that that how much we
go out and say that that you brought up uh... a really important point
if you hyper focus on all of the negative there's always a million reasons to stay
sidelined or not invested something
i think this past year has been a prime example
of what being paralyzed with fear
of the imminent little looming recession
has done to a lot of people that i've seen publicly
you know here on twitter on x
and you know of the yield curve has never been this inverted
all this is the fastest you know fed tightening cycle that we've had in the
this is the everything bubble
this is the debasement bubble this is it you know this this is going to be the
the nineteen twenty nine crash
that this is going to be black monday but meanwhile
you know we can even have black monday anymore because after that circuit
breaker halts were invented right
so people like to just kind of fear monger and i'm not coming to kareem not
at all but just something gary
brought up to your question maybe think of this that
there's always a thousand reasons or more to not invest in something but if
overanalyzed to a point of
you know sort of paralysis or deer in a headlight syndrome
you know you're basically just gonna hold on
and during certain small windows of time you might be able to generate a
you know perceived risk-free
you know note from uncle sam
but at the end of the day you're basically just tracking debasement
yeah maybe you know maybe it's a good question right like what about this
i don't know enough about bitcoin security to formulate you know the
answer that you might be looking for
uh... maybe somebody up here does but
you know i i guess i would lean on the experts that i have listened to that
they don't seem overly concerned with it and that might be a left curve answer to
uh... up by the way yeah by the way guys
to add to that answer though
we're gonna spend a lot of time attacking bitcoin
and had the sophistication to do so
why wouldn't they just attack the bond market
cash markets or you know the credit card like
there's a lot more vulnerability across the payment system than
bitcoin i i i just think that we're coming up with a scenario that says okay
it's an evil plot by the evilness of evil
i think we're all underestimated maybe this is just a gift that came at the
and we need to use it to the best of our ability
uh... well i mean i dropped do you drive a car show
is that is that you know do you drive a car an automobile no no i i live in
manhattan so luckily i don't have a car
yeah a hundred percent i mean that's how an airplane works
do you know how an airplane works
i think it could be attacked easier than bitcoin
yeah and and by the way my i was just responding by the way i the thing is i
want to never sell my bitcoin i think it's a great question
great great question if we don't billy-dally around i mean at the end of the day it's
it cost me ten thousand uh... bitcoin
yeah okay no no i sat here and went oh gosh gary
uh... and he blows up and
and i'm so close to the credit card industry at that time i don't think shit
i'm not going to be able to use my credit card either
that's how dumb a smart person can build gas
and i cost me ten thousand bitcoin for a hundred grand
i'm cool with it if i share it
we don't have to repeat that lesson though
totally the only reason i was
i brought that up because it was a real it was a concern that i had first heard
i i'm not personally concerned with it but
there to be some sort of change according to these folks that i was
it's like a ten fifteen year window and i'm trying to hold bitcoin you know for
much longer than that so figured i would
like never selling and bar against it like that's exactly the way that i'm
if i'm thinking about it you know that long-term in
you know ten fifteen years bitcoins you know
five hundred k a million dollars a token like
yeah i just hope there wasn't some sort of a long tail
vulnerability i'm not even sure
uh... how trivial it is nowadays even make a change to the bitcoin
i'd imagine the response to that on the technical level like if that was ever a
kind of consensus amongst other
just bitcoin developers that would be a change
that would be so interesting
and i don't know either it's it's an interesting hypothetical discussion and
you know perhaps a decade from now it'll have to be one that's taken super
seriously because maybe there is a concern why
the most attractive quality of bitcoin in my opinion well there's there's many
you know they draw me in one the uncomfortability of it if you think about
this feature of bitcoin that you can put your bitcoin in a cold storage
let's just use ledger or treasure
and you have a seed phrase
and that's basically your key to access your crypto
and you can basically memorize those twelve or twenty four words
and you could put a billion dollars on that hardware wallet
and you could effectively become a cyborg
you can store a billion dollars of value in your head
like it's kinda funny to think about
but what happens is that you know that there's been countless examples in
i mean of of government overreach you know freezing people's bank accounts
that don't follow the national narrative
uh... people having to flee their country you know what what if god forbid
you know i'm assuming most of us are americans maybe it's a silly assumption
uh... what if i had to flee my country you know what if my country is under
you know am i gonna pick up my apartment buildings and i gonna take them with me
to you know uh... and become a refugee in some other country no
am i gonna take my business with me
very very unlikely i mean i suppose i could take because bitcoin that's my
am i gonna take my u.s. equity portfolio
it's probably gonna crater if we get attacked here on home soil
am i gonna take my cash with me
try to go through an airport with ten thousand dollars
i mean seriously see what happens
they're gonna flip you upside down
they're probably just gonna take your money from you because they're gonna assume
that you got it illegally
but guess what i could put a billion dollars on a hardware wallet and i can
memorize the twenty four word seed phrase in my head and i can bring a
wherever i want and i just need internet access
the uncomfortability that the permissionless nature
you know that the borderless nature of bitcoin we've never had an asset like
you know and i know a lot of institutional investors don't really
deem that to be a priority
but i also think it's a little bit short-sighted to not entertain a
you will need borderless money
or border lies it's an it's an economic insurance policies what it is
perhaps you're a multi-billionaire and you don't really care if it goes up but
you know i'm not here to be political at all okay
but think about what happened when
uh... rush what what happened to the russian oligarchs
when the war with ukraine just started
they had all their assets frozen their yachts were seized
guess what i bet anyone of them
for that you know multi-month period when they had their assets frozen
would have basically said are you know what i'm worth fifty billion dollars
you can take forty nine billion of my dollars just give me one billion in
bitcoin you know i bet i bet all of them
had wished at that moment that they had a billion dollars in bitcoin
you know as an economic insurance policy
the the the features of bitcoin
is the permissionless nature the uncomfortability
we've never seen anything like it
you know and that makes it the apex asset again the only shortcomings of
it's difficult to draw against your equity
you know and i suppose if we if we live in a paradigm in the future
where you can actually spend your bitcoin like you could in el salvador
then you don't really need to draw against your equity because you're just
spending bitcoin but right now
day-to-day use fiat currencies
you know so it's difficult to draw against your equity in a decentralized
fashion and to it doesn't have a natural native safe yield like owning an
apartment building does or owning a dividend stock does
you know so it people mean that they say it's a pet rock but it doesn't matter
those are two those are two shortcomings which are very old you know easily
uh... in my opinion hurtleable that's a real world word
everything else about it is so fantastic
so again i i i just think that a lot of people are going to wake up and go why
would i not have one percent of my net worth in bitcoin you know i don't really
like it i don't really get it i'm scared by it why would i not have one percent
of my net worth in bitcoin and guess what one percent of a lot of families
family offices net worth is not a hundred thousand dollars
it's multiple millions of tens of millions
i agree with gary man like that p p people just do not understand what's
coming and it's not just bitcoin as well as this whole
it's this whole digital economy
right it's this whole digital economy where we're gonna have
multiple multiple my opinion deck a trillion dollar valuations
you know decentralized lending protocols
you know other proof-of-work networks something like caspa
caspa is something that if you guys haven't looked into i would certainly
look into as well it draws a lot
it's more or less like the uh... the grandchild of bitcoin
alright i'm not i'm not gonna come up here to show caspa but anyways it's
it's it's not exclusive to bitcoin right it's not bitcoin only
i'll leave it at that i'll let somebody else jump in
i definitely agree with that i mean one thing that i was thinking about we're
talking about ten fifteen year
uh... time horizon right i mean
we saw what bitcoin did over the first uh... you know ten years
uh... it paved the way for many other innovations in crypto to to kind of come
uh... heading into two decades and i mean the next we don't really know what
the next ten to fifteen years
is going to look like right we don't know what
other innovations i mean we
max is just talking about something like caspa for example but there are so many
for so many things that are possible uh... within the space and over a ten
fifteen year horizon i mean
uh... for anyone kinda worried about that kind of scenario the
you know it's almost like do we do we even know what the the space would look
or really do we even know what the world
would look like at that point right and what other what options may be out there
in terms of uh... you know how we can how we can protect ourselves and things
of that nature so you know it's one of those things where
you know my response my simple response to that question is you know it just
take a year by year you know what i mean i mean it's definitely something to keep
with it being a full decade out
uh... you know it's it's definitely something that uh... as gary and the
other uh... others on the panel mentioned already
uh... you know it's it's not something we don't want to give ourselves an
not uh... you know invest in the space not to be involved in
and beyond the you know the cutting edge of what's going on
uh... because ultimately this is something that could lead to you know
uh... kind of financial freedom but all just just ultimate freedom to
anywhere and just be on your own terms just like max said you can hold billion
dollars walk to the airport without with people without being uh... interrupted
uh... so you know it's it's one of those things where
you know if there's always going to be a reason but you know definitely wanna
uh... definitely want to just take it one year at a time and and you know no
reason to over complicate things and not saying this to you korean but more so to
uh... kind of rattled by this idea
uh... that that could not cause a huge disruption
over the next ten to fifteen years
i mean creating a fair system right i mean since nineteen seventy one we've
been off of the gold standard
why is everyone okay with it i actually have a funny story about this and this is
not to pick on anybody in particular but
i've got this cousin she lives in the hamptons
she's alright you know family whatever but she's she's she's got this boyfriend
uh... he graduated from MIT
nice guy actually i like both of them you know
there's a little different you know they're a little different it's a
different lifestyle uh... i'm from the midwest you know
i went to a small private private school you know that they went uh... you know
this this kid is brilliant right he's he's twenty eight twenty nine years old
he graduated from MIT he's got an MBA
somewhere else to i don't he's got like an aerospace engineering degree from from
MIT and he's got an MBA from
some other ivy league i don't know
and i'm sitting with them to thanksgivings ago
he's like what do you do for work and i kind of know they're like they're kind
of looking at me funny you know they're like i hear here's the bitcoin guy you
here here's the weirdo right
and i'm looking at them like alright here's the like you know
here's the east coast geeks
you know he starts asking about what i'm doing i'm telling him you know at this
time i just started because bitcoin
yeah i'm starting this this media company called because bitcoin you know
it's going to be financial news and
we're gonna have podcasts and premium services and analysis and
the underpinning of all of it is going to be you know to de-stigmatize the
crypto space because there's so many just like
like literal clowns and grifters people that just prey on the innocent that are
looking to educate themselves
um... and we want to do things differently so i'm gonna compile a team
of what i believe to be some of the best in the business
and uh... you know we're gonna make some noise and collaborate and have some fun
and you know we start talking about bitcoin you know bitcoin fundamentals
well bitcoins not backed by anything how do you you know why would you invest in
bitcoin and like you know it's way too risky and all this stuff
i said well what's the dollar backed by
i can't remember what ivy league school he's also got a uh... you know an
aerospace engineering degree from m i t
this was like two years ago guys
and i said uh... no no it actually isn't it hasn't been for about five decades
and he just kind of stopped and was like
he didn't really respond to me
but i just then i kinda went on like a diatribe about bitcoin and its
fundamentals and why it doesn't need to be backed
by you know the government and how the
the the actual the the federal government's backing you know
uh... you backed in backed by the full faith in credit of the united states
government doesn't actually mean
what you believe it means and and here's why
you're basically spending an un-collateralized debt-based fiat
currency which is being debased in perpetuity and at the time you know this
was right after they have effectively doubled the m2 money supply in about two
years less than two years
right so i quoted that example
where i'm going with this is
there's so much education that still has to be done
and that's a lot of what we spend our time doing is yes trying to navigate
you know my team here because bitcoin is traders right
i wish i had the luxury of just being an investor and i could just
hold uh... thousand-spot bitcoin on uh... you know hardwood man you give me a
long lunch with you give me three or four hours with you i will convert you son
hey well gary we got a phone call on tuesday so i will talk on tuesday
you know that there's so much education that needs to happen
in this space you know educating people about what money is
what bitcoin before we can teach people what bitcoin is
because right now they associate it with the silk road
i read that this guy spent ten thousand bitcoin on pizza and i read that this guy
throughout his computer and you know he lost thirty million dollars and
that's what they associate bitcoin with
you know but they don't actually understand what the technology is
what the revolution is because they don't even understand what the money in
which actually isn't their money
they a lot of people literally think there's this famous picture of mohammed
in this bank vault you guys are probably all seen it where he's sitting on a pile
of cash or holding a pile of cash
and he's clearly in a bank vault that's like him with his millions that he earned
and a lot of people have this misconception
you got a hundred thousand dollars in wells fargo
or u.s. bank or jp morgan
and your hundred thousand dollars and maybe not you guys but a lot of people
out there they literally think like oh my
you know my hundred thousand dollars is like sitting in the corner of a bank
vault and you know i'm paying them a few a few
few bips you know every uh... every month you know to clean my money you know to
like scrub it make sure it's all nice and
you know shiny and that's my money sitting there no no no no no
your hundred thousand dollars
is on a is on their own digital ledger and your hundred thousand dollars is in
you know it banks are the biggest ponzi of all time
bank most banks are leveraged like i think it's seven or nine to one
i mean talk about an absolute ponzi you know a run on the banks is far more
likely than anything being corrupted with bitcoin it's the immutable ledger
you know so there's so much education that has to happen around what your
cash actually is because people they perceive cash to be safe
from an accounting perspective we mark cash on our balance sheet
cash is only an asset in the sense that we can use it and it's an open door
we can spend it on whatever we want it's opportunity that's what it represents
the cash inherently is a huge liability
i do not want to hold any cash
it's a major major liability
so again we need we need to be better about educating people especially our
young people about what bitcoin is
i had an interesting conversation as well
you know somebody asked me what's going to be
what's the most important thing for bitcoin you really think a bunch of
you know old people are gonna are giving in a buy-in of these ETFs and i said
yeah i do think a bunch of old people are going to buy into these ETFs and i've
you know right it's like look at
look at the look at the flows that we know i wonder how that would sound if
you said instead of old people
i wonder how that would sound if you change it to the largest wealth
that's going to leave you guys seventy trillion fucking dollars bro
yes no and and i agree i don't know by the way i didn't flow into the digital
ecosphere it will not flow in the old legacy world
yeah and i mean that that's exactly i was actually getting to one of the
points you made there uh... i said yeah i do think that a bunch of
older people are going to one because
they're going to see the value in it
and their money managers probably gonna see a good opportunity in it
to i said actually what's what's more important than that in my opinion yes i
that generation is going to buy in and clearly they are buying in
the next generation the generation that hasn't even joined the workforce yet
to educate around what they claim is if not more important
then the fifty an older crowd
and like you mentioned gary they control majority of the wealth and a lot of young
people are gonna have heard a lot of money
in the not too distant future
so it's equally important right
but when i talk about education i'm talking about
the fifteen fourteen to seventeen-year-old kid
that is still you know five to seven to ten years out from getting a job
that's the generation that is not afraid of bitcoin
that doesn't need quite as much of a nudge
to get around the idea of bitcoin
you know it's an entirely new generation that doesn't have money yet
and they're going to inherit a lot of money
so yeah i mean what we're talking about an asset bitcoin
that is in you know you're what fourteen fifteen
you know you're talking about buying land in manhattan in the year eighteen
you can even wrap your head around the valuations
i mean it's it's almost like the self-fulfilling prophecy
but anyways i i've been going on for a while i'd like i'd like somebody else to
jump in here too or i'll just keep talking i want to have more of a
well we can we invite and welcome all the guys that
invite up wherever you want gary who do you want i can do it for you
no it's okay and then hey you guys really appreciate you coming over i was
just with these guys spent half an hour and i just thought
why leave like let's combine resources
follow these cats they're cool they they run a good program
we want to chat a little bit too much but you know that's cool
and we quit the space okay let's get a thousand people in here and let's talk
what i would love i'll pay someone a bitcoin
and convince me why bitcoin isn't a the greatest investment
for an old person or a young person without any debt
why it's not one of the greatest investment opportunities for the next
uh... one bitcoin i'll pay no matter what the price is
so that's a cool little incentive don't you guys think
i think bring the i think bring the people from cambridge
all right who's in there where where that where the bitcoin haters at somebody
request to come up if you hate bitcoin and you want to go toe-to-toe with gary
please request to come on up
you might get cooked full disclosure
i don't know if i want to climb that mountain but if somebody's up for feel
and also if you were going to join gary space
you know feel free to request to come on up i'm not sure exactly who you had
yeah well i'm not a big nanny so they know who they are they can pop up if
these guys are giving you total access just request don't even think about it
make a comment tell them how good i am compared to them
or vice versa alright just
alright so i'm gonna bring up everybody who requested to speak
it's a bit of a gamble okay
so gary i'm i'm i'm gonna trust you on this matter yeah well listen i look my
rooms never get out of control dude i'll fucking mute and boot so fast to make
your head swim they know what the rules are okay
so the rules are behave the way you would
in front of us it's like another kind of kiss
hey how's it going guys gary you were rugging for me for a bit i don't know
uh i heard the last bit of that he was on my end as well he sounded
good when he said hello to you uh but gary maybe we could do a quick mic
check you sounded like you were cutting out just for
maybe 10 seconds yeah how's this that sounds pretty good
is this better yeah welcome man bro hello hello how y'all doing
great man how are you fantastic
yeah so i caught the last maybe five ten minutes of uh
of the show here just got um home from work so was hopping around
seeing if any good conversations were going on and
kind of heard some of your monologue there max and
wanted to hop up and just throw my two cents into it
um i really think one of the things that's underappreciated right now
a lot of people i really haven't heard talk about all that much
i've heard it mentioned a few times but um
the potential for bitcoin to change the logic of violence at the sovereign level
in the long term i think is really interesting
and um at the individual level as well and i'll give kind of the example here
right is world war ii all of the gold was sent into the u.s
because the nazis were gradually blitzkrieging their way across europe
and nobody wanted them to get their gold so
we ended up with all of it here right and um
the interesting thing to me is you know in the future
somebody shows up with threat of violence and as long as you don't have
that seed phrase written down on a plate for them to take
they've got to at least sit down and negotiate with you and the very simple
um example here would be robber shows up to your house
you have your bitcoin keys and a multi-sig
and they put a gun to your head and say hey give me all you got
and you say sorry i can't bang they get nothing if you've got a
safe full of gold and they show up to your house hey
give me all your gold no bang okay
they just take all your gold it's theirs now and i do think that
in the long run there is a potential there for that to be
a truly novel thing that really could rewrite the incentive structure for
violence for human beings i know it's a long
that's maybe who knows 50 100 250 years out
but i just think it's something super interesting that i don't hear people
talk all that much about but i felt that it was at least
analogous or maybe somewhat aligned to some of the stuff you were talking
about max i think that's a it's a really interesting
point um i mean i'll be completely honest if somebody
comes into my house and holds a gun to my head and just wants my my money
i'm probably not going to die you know i'll probably just
i'd rather give him my my seed phrase than uh than die
you know i have a wife and a kid but i think it's the point you're making is a
salient one right and it's important right it's
hypothetically it's the unconfiscatability
of your property right i mean you don't have to give it up right but
it's also about the storage of it the facility right so you use gold as a
prime example you know imagine you have you know how are you going to store 10
million dollars of gold in your house you know you're not
right if you want to store 10 100 million dollars of gold you're going to
have to rent a warehouse right then you're going to have to make it
climate controlled then you're going to have to put in a security system
then you're probably going to have to hire you know a security guard
right and you know then what if you want to transfer your gold what if you move
from uh from new york to california and you want to transfer you know hundreds
or thousands of pounds of gold you know then you got to hire uh you
know uh i don't even know like a fleet of armed trucks
you know and it's going to cost you two or three or five percent i don't even
know what it would cost to transport that gold across the
country right so we're trying to compare and
contrast you know a traditionally uh you know sound money asset being gold
and juxtapose it to something like bitcoin it doesn't even come close
right it doesn't even come close at all i mean i like the example you gave of
you know you can't take my money it's in my head you know fucking kill me
but you know at the end of the day moving in a more practical sense
where would you rather store you know 10 to 100 million dollars or a billion
dollars would you rather store it you know in your head by memorizing 12 or
24 words or would you rather buy a bunch of gold
bricks and you know build out you know real world
infrastructure to protect that investment and then
you know it's effectively just sitting there and you have to pay
annually to basically maintain it i mean what would be the the maintenance cost
of holding and protecting 100 million dollars of gold
two percent a year three percent a year you're better off just holding cash
because it's going to bleed at that same rate
right so i mean i i really like your points you know it's it's a very
interesting um you know abstract discussion you
know the sound properties of bitcoin greatly greatly triumphs every other
asset and i've done this this hypothetical
you know do it with real estate do it with your equity in your business do it
with cash do it with bonds you know everything you know and i'm happy to do
it do you think any of do you think any of that though in
fairness is driving the market forces today
and i mean do you think the industry is really aware of the
structural shift that's occurring right now i don't think so yet personally
i don't think they care at all gary i don't i don't think that the big money
that's buying bitcoin right now cares at all because if they did care they would
have bought five years ago you know now they're buying through
etf because they don't care about the sound properties of bitcoin
like we do and we're discussing up here which isn't inherently a problem
right you know just just because you know you
might buy a house and rent it out as an investment i might buy a house
and put my family in it we're using those assets for two different things
it's the same thing you know but i'm using it because bitcoin
is sound money you know it's concrete property and a
good store of value and it's efficient somebody else might be buying you know
a hundred million dollar clips of of the new spot etf
and they don't care they just recognize that you know bitcoin is probably going
to trend up as the fiat currency that it's
denominated in is debased over time and that's fine as well
i wouldn't say that there's a right or wrong you know i think exposure for
whatever reason is good whether you want to buy bitcoin
and hold it because it's digital cash or you want to hold it because it's
digital property i don't really care and i don't think
anybody should it can be whatever anybody wants it to be it's flexible
i love that max because uh you sound like a freedom maximist
which is what jay satoshia you had your hand up
yeah you can't you know you can't hear me i'll drop down
i'll drop down so he can hear me if he can bring me back up yeah
we'll get you right back up sorry about that
shoot yeah i don't know what's going on with um wabi we got max max max max max max max max max max max max max max max max max max max max max max max max max max max
cooking today brother yeah man I uh I'm in a Bitcoin mood man I'm just uh
just ready to go we got DJ Satoshi because Bitcoin.com right so I'd hope you're in a Bitcoin
mood with a name like that absolutely absolutely man but let's go on brother what's going on man
yeah it's good to see you good to be here with you guys thanks for having me up good to see Gary
again second time today um and I just wanted to mention something I mean you know you don't I
really like there's a lot of people that say this and it worries me like remembering 12 or 24 words
in your head you do that only in case of an emergency like if you're fleeing a war zone
which is actually what we saw like in Ukraine and Russia and you know many other parts of the world
unfortunately where people couldn't leave with anything on their back because they knew they
would you know be basically searched at the border and robbed which is what happened a lot before
Bitcoin and this is actually very interesting that macro brought this point up which I love
because it's totally changing the whole rules of violence and the whole rules of confiscatability
like Bitcoin is unconfiscatable money it's fuck you money so if you want freedom like and you
don't have Bitcoin you're kind of enslaving yourself because you're living in a world today
where you have Bitcoin available to you and you're just opting to not use it and that's the beautiful
thing about Bitcoin is that it's an opt-in system this is a currency that we've never seen
before where people get to actually choose to use it you don't choose to use the US dollar you are
required to use the US dollar there's a big difference between the two so you know that's
the beauty of Bitcoin is that it's an opt-in system it's a choice and it's unconfiscatable
so I really love that macro brought that point up and then back to the ETF point that you were making
max like I'm afraid of Maximus as well so if people want to ride the price and play that game
that's fine but as soon as they approve the ETF the only reason they even approve the ETF was
because it was a cash-in cash-out basis that's the that's not even the cherry on top that's the
foundation they would have never approved it had it not been cashed in cash out if it was in kind
then it would just continue the bleeding they recognize that this is a bleeding point and that
the ship is sinking their fiat currency and they needed a way to keep the liquidity from exiting
and they know people are opting out of fiat currencies and opting into Bitcoin and so they
needed to ride the wave now because it's more than riding the wave it's literally stopping the
bleeding so yeah people can go and ride the wave of the price action but it does not give them the
freedom tool that Bitcoin is so the freedom technology is I think why most of us are here
even though we all came for the money we all stay for the freedom
Tiger what's going on brother?
Not the brothers just going through Coinbase's earnings
I'm not able to hear Tiger I think X is having issues today yeah my connection is
I can I can hear Tiger's perfect brother I've got I've got four bars on me man
so Tiger gold bars you're carrying gold bars where you at man
no no service bar is Tiger yeah just uh request we're gonna speak and hey Wabi I'm just gonna be
unavailable for like five minutes um it's about time to go be it no problem I'll be on the space
but yeah yeah yeah just I uh I'm gonna be driving so I'll be around I'll be up here
no problem man uh so Gary look man I know you wanted to start your show right about 30 minutes
ago what are some topics that you wanted to cover uh for your segment maybe we can cover them uh
up here man yeah man and and uh yeah I'm not gonna run too long uh I I think I was just trying to
understand from the marketplace if they're really aware of what kind of volume we're looking at and
the consequences of that volume you know message to me is hey if you were ever sitting on the
sidelines this is time to really reread the book any book about the subject because like I think
we're seeing history right here and uh if you're dibbling dabbling long-term investing and some of
these other things this train could leave the leave the station bro leave a lot of people behind
so that's my message right now I just think there's a very small window here where it could
be closing before you know serious money comes in here that's my point that was what I wanted to
talk about and I think other people are excited about the bullishness of the whole market so Gary
glad to join you guys I'll hang for a little bit and then I'll book Gary before you bail did you
see that report where they said that you need to have like 85 percent bitcoin allocation and that
was a tradify report I think what was it black rock that put that out yeah yeah that was black rock
like maybe six months ago right so do you think they did that do you think they did that it's
hilarious do you think they did that just because they want to pump their etf bags or do you think
it was a different purpose I think an analyst did a mathematical mathematical evaluation said hey
it's 86.3 I actually agree I think it's much higher than people would expect based on what we know
yeah this is not a little baby this is not this is why I keep saying I think the bitcoin community
as a whole is underestimating what's getting ready to happen yeah I mean I'm 99.99 percent
bitcoin like I just keep exactly what I need just to spend for like the next couple of weeks that I
know like that's what I need to spend you know and just because that's I know those people don't
accept bitcoin anyone who accepts bitcoin like I pay them in bitcoin yeah see I would never do that
see I think you grossly undervalue bitcoin on through my the prims the the prism the way I look
at it I would never like I'll loan you the money bro and use fiat you're better off paying interest
in my opinion in fact mathematically it'll show you better off paying interest yeah but the thing
is is are you spending dollars Gary yeah yeah exactly and so am I exactly and that's my point
though I am I am because you know why anytime somebody spends even one US dollar they're
spending bitcoin because bitcoin exists so the reason that the reasoning I have is that like
look if somebody is a vendor and is I'm about to get a service or a good from them and they
understand bitcoin and want bitcoin it doesn't cost me anything to send them bitcoin it's it's
actually cheaper and I get to keep my privacy better than to pay them with a credit card yeah
but you have you're denominating your dollars in bitcoin and in your you know we denominate
bitcoins and dollars what you what you really have to take into consideration is there's not
very friendly tax incentives for me to spend my bitcoin unless I'm unless I'm spending it at a
loss have you heard of strut bitcoin tracks all time have you heard of strike you can send dollars
on strike and they'll receive bitcoin on the other end of it and you don't get a taxable event
so you're sending a hundred dollars in USD and then they receive a hundred dollars worth of bitcoin
do you do you dream about living in a paradigm where you spend your bitcoin
I don't dream it I live it
like you pay for your entire life and yeah like you're not embellishing to make a point
like you pay your rent in bitcoin you pay your mortgage whatever no no no that was my point
that was my point is that unfortunately like my land lady she won't accept bitcoin right
because she doesn't get I tried talking to her about it and she's like you know 85 years old
he's doing you such a blessing it's unbelievable but but see the thing is I genuinely believe that
living in this this bitcoin maximalist paradigm and I don't mean that in a facetious way where you
spend your bitcoin is actually one of the worst things for bitcoin right if you want your bitcoin
to increase in perpetuity forever it needs to be denominated in a currency that is being debased in
perpetuity if ever if one bitcoin is one bitcoin then it kind of loses the the crazy appreciation
appeal and that's the truth well so I actually respectfully disagree I think that is actually
the biggest problem we currently have in bitcoin is that we're still using it as only a store of
value we need to start moving beyond that and use it as a medium of exchange and actually if you
look at other countries developing countries especially like go look at peru go look at el
Salvador go look at you know like all these countries that use it as a medium of exchange
let me ask you a question bro let me ask you a question yeah okay look I'm gonna give you
I'm gonna give you a hundred thousand dollars in um what's the Mexican uh the peso currency now
the peso and I'm gonna give you the same amount of money in say uh any coin you want bro
bitcoin like okay cool you want bitcoin now why would you go and use that money wouldn't you
use those Spanish dollars let's say we I said hey you know what I'm gonna give you half in bitcoin
half in Spanish dollars which ones are you going to use to buy a hundred percent the peso I totally
agree but but if the vendor yeah no but I just moving the conversation I don't think I don't
think your scenario is in my next five to eight years of I could see corporates moving money
around with bitcoin I personally think that you may not really fully although it's a beautiful
social thing that you're trying to do because I think you're trying to put fuel into the social
network I for one would prefer to get fucking very very very very rich and then I can deploy
capital into some infrastructure in this industry so that it expands see I think that's a better
use of our fuel but and then use pesos you know there's US dollars somewhere in those in that name
um use US dollars and burn that because you're literally I think you're costing yourself 50
more for the coffee and where Gary made a point here and I think this is the real institutional
use case for transfer of wealth is I mean if you've gone to a bank for you know for business and
you've attempted to send like a $50,000 wire and some banks are a little bit more friendly
unfortunately I'm working with a bank right now that is not super friendly for sending wires over
a certain amount they sit you down can I see your ID give me your 29 bro what's that you're 29
yeah no I'm actually 28 I'm actually 28 but where I was going with this is like they they flip you
upside down to spend your own money right so okay I want to I want to send some money
all right give me your ID who's the recipient what's the the purpose of the transaction all
this garbage just to send you know a measly wire you know over a certain amount right so I mean I
could see a use case where institutions they determine that it makes more sense for them to
eventually custody their own crypto rather than buy through these ETFs because if they want to
transfer a billion dollars you know from from California to a factory in China you know they
can do that in 10 minutes or even quicker you know using Bitcoin as a payment rail rather than
going and trying to send a billion dollars standardization of business to a cheaper more
efficient economy which I really see as the institutional use case not a paradigm where
you know people are making like little payments or doing payroll in Bitcoin you know like I think
maybe you know certainly I think it should be an option right I think it'd be nice if it was an
option but I don't really I don't know if I believe in a paradigm and I don't even know if
that's the best thing to just have like one Bitcoin is one Bitcoin like I love the conversation
but I don't know if we want that like I think I think it kind of ruins it truthfully like I'm
hearing you you know and I want to keep listening but I don't know I think Bitcoin I think you want
Bitcoin to be its own separate payment rail and I don't think you want it to become the federal
you know the the federal reserve asset you know I don't because then it's not Bitcoin anymore
you know then it's not you see I don't even think it has to but I don't think it has to I think
it's going to become whatever it becomes really like it's now morphing from a 12 year old into a
18 year old now how old was Alexander the Great when he began conquering entire nations
whoa younger than 18 I think this this asset class is flexing its muscles it's becoming King Kong
and we're getting ready to see if it has any gravity that gravity's going to come from a
monster amount of money and I think it's going to rip anyone that's been around here for like
10 years I think it's going to rip your faces off and unexpected momentum force and resulting price
and volatility come with it I think a lot of people are going to get massacred in this next
cycle but I still can't find anybody either one of you guys I cannot find anyone one that can
tell me how this is a no-brainer of a no-brainer I mean I could tell you if you really want
do it he's paying out one Bitcoin if you can tell him why it's not the premier asset of choice
do it I mean the biggest thing is that most people don't know how to use it yet like don't know how
to properly safely and securely store their seed phrase and so like that's the biggest risk so like
for most people that aren't tech savvy and who aren't willing to learn that side of it they're
better off just not playing around with something they don't know because they're going to either
get scammed rob or they're going to lose their seed phrase you're selling me against this yeah
I'm telling you if you're not a techie if you're not willing to become a techie then you're going
to shoot yourself in the foot by playing around with a gun that you don't know how to use basically
so you're going to lose your seed you're going to I should not buy Bitcoin well yeah if you don't
if you're not willing to learn and study it then yeah don't bother so I should not invest any money
in the Bitcoin industry if I'm not well in self custody exactly because then you're not using
Bitcoin if you don't have your keys you don't think the ETF is good let me touch on that real
quick so you're talking about just like the everyday individual yeah that's what you know
maybe only has like a thousand bucks to invest something like that kind of your normie you know
playing with fire they're going to get burned because they don't understand the technology
and you know the custodianship of it I've had this thought for a while and I guess it's not
really a counter because you are right in some degree but I think that the next billion users
of crypto are going to come from smartphone integration right we've had a little bit of
a preview with like the Solana saga phone which you know whatever but I think that I mean you look
at Apple you look at Android Google I mean these companies have the ability to put a crypto exchange
and a hardware wallet in the hands of billions of people overnight if they choose to do so so I
think you're right in our current state you know we can't truly have mass adoption of digital
assets because there is a security there is a custodianship scare an issue and that's a real
one and you've addressed that but I wouldn't discount the possibility that some of these
smartphone companies and wearable technology companies you know implement again hardware
self-custodianship abilities into their smartphones within the next half of a decade and I think
that's where we're moving and that's going to be the next billion retail that are onboarded into
crypto and I think that that solves that problem let's pass it over to some of these new guys that
I brought up Don of an empire what's up man hey um on from what Gary was saying um hey um
I'm 55 years old so I'm kind of in the same wheelhouse and uh I've got um I've got kids
they're all kind of growing up hey yo man hey Don Don hey I'm getting ready to have a full body
stem cell replacement well not replacement but infusion two in my knees one in my shoulder two
in my hands and I am so excited about it dude I'm gonna get back into being like 30 bang bang
anyway that sounds interesting I um I wanted to echo what you were saying though Gary that
um as you begin to really and I've been in your spaces uh many many times just listening in
and I have to agree with you as you begin to really understand what bitcoin is and uh the
paradigm shift that the world is heading towards and I see it every day around me it just be it's
your eyes open to to to where things are going um I'm in the same camp I my daughter's got um
her school uh tuition that she needs to her college tuition that she needs to pay
and I deliberately had her go out and get a loan for that and every when she had to pay the school
loan um uh sorry when she had to take out a loan and the the fees came in um I had her take out
uh a loan for for half of it and then the other half um I bought a portion of bitcoin
that equaled the amount that she had to pay um in for her loan so I I'm in a point I'm where I
I'm saying no use the fiat system uh and milk it for everything you can get and uh you put your
hard earned money um into uh the strongest the hardest asset we've ever had and use that um
as best you can if if bitcoin goes to half a million dollars uh I'm not paying off my house
hell no I got a two and a half percent mortgage rate uh for the next 27 years or whatever there's
no way I'm gonna pay I'm gonna convert my bitcoin uh into fiat to pay off my mortgage I'm not doing
it and I'm sure as hell not gonna convert uh the uh bitcoin I put aside for my my daughter uh from
from her college tuition I'm not I'm not paying off that college tuition hell no it's it's just
not happening and so I I totally agree with what you were saying and I think there is a paradigm
shift coming and and it's just in the last week or so you if I find myself getting a little bit
sort of nervous that I think you know we we're getting closer to a time where I think things
are just going to get away from from all of us who have been in this space for uh you know a few
years now and I think you're right I think the doors could just blow off this thing and we're
we'll wake up one day and all of a sudden we're like holy shit what what the hell happened
anyway I've ranted enough but thank you for having me up
that'll be proven to be right not sure if it'll be up or down but it will come one way or the other
hey because uh bro I didn't mean to take over the the the right it's okay you want to handle this
uh we we can just accept people that come up and if they have any statements or questions
in regards to what we've been discussing for the last two and a half hours
we can just go with the flow like that right um yeah man look and if you want to run it for 12
minutes and then close it down it's fine for me I've been on these spaces all day long I'd be
it'd be okay with me actually oh good man are you in south Florida as well man
yeah where are you at I live like five minutes I'm in Tampa Tampa St Pete yeah I live right near
Grant's office so I'm not too far away from men but um well tell that little tell that
little cat hello from me man next time you're bouncing down man I'll take too much of him
for sure if I ever um see him and have insurance stuff like that um but I think I think um like for
the second half of this year I'm probably live in another state just uh just to experience like
something that's not humid for like 90 percent of the year right because Florida's great man
Florida's great like we have good weather here right from October all the way to April
beautiful weather right but from April all the way to September my goodness man
it's basically a swamp here it is a swamp um it's like a steam room almost but um yeah we're
going over now to uh the Bengal tiger you're 10 degrees warmer than I am anytime I'm down in
Miami man no seriously literally 10 degrees warmer every time I go down there from Tampa
yeah it's it's a it's a steam room man and yeah yeah like what I've noticed is that
they're all those Ferraris and Lambos that can't get out first gear bro it creates a lot of heat
and they're cutting off a lot of um areas where people can walk they're creating Miami basically
into like what New York used to be I think that's the road that South Florida is kind of heading
towards right it's sort of what NYC was in the 70s right in the 80s that that's that's how I'm
looking at it personally and you can even see like some of the real estate developments that
they're trying to do they're trying to build like the Miami bridge or whatever it's like it's like
a techie version of the Brooklyn bridge but either way let's go on and get to these hands
I saw uh the Bengal tiger ma'am how are you what's going on hi good evening hi hose hi Gary
um I wanted to take a cheeky shot at the Bitcoin scenario like obviously in real life I'm a huge
advocate for it but in this particular scenario just imagine completely hypothetical situation
uh power plant goes down let's say there's an attack all the grid but literally the whole power
grid goes down there's no power at all digital everything goes down no cons like in a situation
like that you probably want to have the goods that you can barter with so I don't know a watch gold
coins bars things like that and completely have bullets situation but I'm just saying like Bitcoin
probably wouldn't be that much of a value asset if society completely crumbles and we have no
infrastructure that was my two cents thank you if that happens you got bigger problems than Bitcoin
yeah that that was uh the story I was told in 2022 um Sean Dunn what's up brother hey what's
happening yeah I just kind of jumped in here a few minutes ago and caught the tail end of uh
Gary and DJ Satoshi going back and forth about self-custody I hope I got the context enough
and you know DJ I respect a lot of what I hear what I hear you say in spaces and whatnot and
you know clearly I'm a laser eyed maxi myself you know but um if I understood what you're saying
correct I mean us maxis we got to realize that not everybody's going to self-custody um you know
should you right now is it possible right now absolutely but in the long term it's just not
going to be possible you know and I think you're aware of that and I see the hundreds um and so
maybe I missed some context what you guys are debating there but also to say that anybody
shouldn't be here because of how they're going to use Bitcoin you know I I actually dropped a
Bitcoin in email he don't care you know so um so just kind of my two cents on that I'm you know I
encourage the same things of teaching self-custody and and all that to the people that I orange pill
but then I also try to give them a snapshot of the future to let them know like you hey you're
not always going to be able to interact with this thing this way and so now starting to teach about
utxo management you know and things like that so they can move forward with self-custody in a
sustainable way so just want to drop my two cents on that I hope that was in context enough to what
y'all were talking about yeah I totally agree with you man that's that's the point is that you're
totally right there's only going to be so many people on earth that are going to be able to
actually self-custody their Bitcoin so if you want to be one of those you know Bitcoin billionaires
then you got to get in line now yep absolutely and for anybody in the audience that wants a great
um description of the future look for uh Bob Burnett that bit block boom uh 2023 he did a
real good about 30 minute talk that really breaks this down he just gets into the numbers kind of
average and median block time you know transaction capacity uh for the network and then the reality of
onboarding eight billion people you know to this protocol can let's say something
yeah after you man I'm gonna I'll probably wrap up here man
yeah good for me too thank you man yeah the question I'm from Netherlands sure from English but
if you see the bill market right now it's not it's not even begun I think so but um in the early
states but if you uh look back to uh November uh you you you see gas you see mover and made a lot
of money up in that in the in the and and and say and sui you know but why that's the question
why why are they uh we're pumping and the rest was yeah I don't know but why why are these coins
tokens pumping that's my question yeah it's just because we're in a bull market that's
that's my answer man uh but either way man I want to thank everybody uh for coming on here I think
I'm gonna wrap up Sethi Tiger I'll probably do a space I'll probably do a space man uh maybe in
like five hours or something like I did yesterday at like 2 a.m or whatever but I want to thank
Gary everybody else who contributed to today's talk and also Matt uh bangle tiger macro DJ Sean
everybody else who participated thank you guys so much you guys bro sorry hey sorry for smashing in
I know it was a bit of a weird experiment it didn't work right so apologies see you later bro
it's all right yeah yeah it's okay all right guys thank y'all thanks guys as always space is recorded
uh feel free to follow the speakers and all that stuff and uh feel free to follow us here because
bitcoin to keep up with our of our shows content stuff like that uh I run these spaces throughout
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leverage be careful out there and may the candles being your favor god bless you all bye bye