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Market Talk- UP ONLY OR DOWN ONLY SOON?! WHATS NEXT FOR CRYPTO?!
Recorded: Feb. 26, 2026 Duration: 3:08:25Space Recording
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Oh, my God. Don't look down, just keep your head up.
You can finish.
Open up the limit.
Pass the coin of no return.
Reach the top, but still you gotta learn how to keep it.
Get the ring in the devil's face, try to widen open like a van of hell.
Let's go.
Let's go.
It's the game team.
Let's go.
It's the game.
Going for the back of the yard.
Nothing gonna stop me. There's nothing that's wrong.
The photos now are nearly at the brink.
So push out.
Oh yeah.
Welcome to the limits.
Take you maybe one step more.
I'll keep still playing so we better live. Oh I'm going to play a little bit. Oh, my God. Music Thank you. Welcome to the limits.
Welcome to the Limits
Stand along with raising hands
Don't look down, just keep your head
You'll be fine
Welcome to the Limits I'm continuing. I'm continuing.
I'm continuing.
Yo, what's going on, guys?
Welcome back to Market Talk, brought to you by BB.
My name's Wabi.
I hope you're all having a fantastic Thursday or Friday, wherever you are.
Man, thank you all so much for tuning in.
Whether you're here live right now or you're listening to the recording, welcome, welcome.
I hope today brings you prosperity and many blessings from wherever it is that you're tuning in right now. show was a banger. We went on for well over six hours and had a plethora of people discussing
so many things. It was fantastic. This entire week has been filled with banger after banger,
well over a thousand people tuning in live to the space, of speakers so many takes many many many hours
for each stream I think it's been like this for about two weeks now and I I'm not I have nothing
else to say except that I'm that I'm grateful that I have the opportunity to speak to so many people and
to learn so much. But today in the market, we are pulling back after retesting range highs.
And it's the day after earnings, the day after big tech earnings in the stock market and
the indices and tech, they've all pulled back today same thing with crypto
with crypto man I think we talked about power protocol a little bit I was discussing like what
the hell is this thing I don't know why it's going up and it's up another 2x this thing is now trading at a market cap of 300 mil or 400 mil
almost um i think it has to do with rwas or something like that and it's on eth mainnet which
is the craziest thing ever um it's been a while since there have actually been runners on eth
mainnet but i think it just goes to show that Ethereum is probably always
going to be here. Same thing with Solana. Speaking of Sol, there's not really much going on except
the expose that ZachXBT made was about Axiom. Honestly, I thought it was going to be World Liberty 5 or Meteora. I'm not sure why it's Axiom, but whatever.
And prices haven't really done much today at all.
Solana is not affected.
Bitcoin is barely affected.
ETH is barely affected.
I honestly thought that it was going to be a hell of a lot bigger than just Axiom, truth be told.
But that's pretty much it, man.
We just retested range highs, and we've tried to break out of 70k.
With volume is that it's not the case where there aren't enough sellers.
It's just that there isn't enough buyers.
There's not enough buyers for us to break out.
And this whole Jane Street situation,
at least I would have expected there to continue to be a breakout
towards the early 70Ks, at the very least uh the peak of
the range highs which is right now at about 72k and change and honestly the more time that we spend
below the march 2024 high the more prices are susceptible uh to to eventually make their way back to range lows or perhaps lower lows,
which I still think that the likelihood of that is still very much possible.
I'd like to see the yearly open break through, not only for BTC, but for things like ETH.
But there will be countertrend rallies along the way.
It's just that when you have these events like Jane Street and things like that and
earnings, a lot of the times in bear markets, they end up just being narratives for these
small countertrend rallies.
And I really can't stress enough, you had an amazing or lackluster speech from Trump in the State of the Union address.
Some people thought it was a banger, but if you're a market participant, it was kind of lackluster with the follow through that we're experiencing today.
Lack of follow through with a speech like that and earnings.
You'd expect the day after earnings to be a bit different than how they've been lately.
Lately, tech earnings since honestly, since last earnings reports in October, they've all been crap. I think we actually peaked out
a little bit going into, I think it was Q3 earnings. That's when the broader market topped
out. And now indices have been, I mean, we'll call it a distribution. We'll call it for what it is
for months. And that's something that we haven't seen in the equity markets in a very, very, very
long time.
And it's so shocking that just with the S&P pulling back 3% to 4%, BTC gets slashed in
half.
And perhaps it is these trading desks like a Jane Street and maybe a few others arise, right?
1010, it did expose firms like Jane Street.
A few market makers did get blown out.
And a lot of the time, these market makers are people that individuals like myself and some other casual participants of CT we don't really we don't
really know about it's really only a handful of people and if you look at the crypto market it
is a very very small entity Nvidia has a bigger market cap than the entire crypto market and I
think I think at some point that gap will be filled and BTC will trade at a market cap above
five trillion and the broader crypto market will probably trade at like a 3x multiple of BTC's market cap. I do think that
is the future. I think probably after the first big AI rush concludes after, I would say probably
after OpenAI and Anthropic IPO and then you start having some of these other beta names,
like what SanDisk is to NVIDIA and what Micron is to Microsoft,
I think perhaps something like that, an asymmetric trade like that,
will present itself in the AI and the AI run,
and that'll reflect over to crypto um but these things take
time these things do take time and uh more than anything i'm happy to be with you i got knock on
the show i see prometheus in the audience i'm trying to bring up david but i'm not sure what's
going on what spaces maybe maybe maybe we broke the system yesterday Maybe we broke the system yesterday. Maybe we broke the system yesterday.
We were also having some issues with spaces yesterday as well, man. Anytime these rooms
get packed with a couple hundred people, I think usually when the spaces get over 800 or 900
listeners, it starts lagging and all that stuff and you really start to see this
platform get stress tested after uh the numbers go to like 1100 1200 1500 that's when it really
really really um starts to act buggy so i think that's just the nature of these rooms man when uh
when there's volatility and uh prices are down and we're just compressed in a range,
but there's still volatility, it becomes entertaining.
The conversations become very, very entertaining.
It is interesting to see Robinhood showing some strength.
That's always going to be a name that i'm interested in
even if i think the indices are going lower i still think that that thing is going to be such
a good long-term trade man i mean you're talking about prediction markets sports betting crypto
um earning yield on your money through money markets, all in one platform, futures trading, all in one platform.
I think the one thing that Robinhood does not have, though,
is automated trading and I think also copy trading as well.
I think Webull has something like that,
but I don't really think Weeble
has a narrative
as strong as Robin Hood
to be honest, but
I'm going to go ahead and bring
some of the other speakers.
We're going to be having Small Cap
Sniper join us later
in the show, and also some other
speakers
that have never been here on the show but i've gone
into their spaces before and um it should be pretty cool having them on the show but um guys
before we officially get rolling for today's show if you guys can go ahead and share the space and all that good stuff, best way to do that, guys, is by clicking the spaces tab.
Once you guys do that, right above our profile pictures, you'll see a nice link that says x.com slash I slash spaces.
Go ahead, hit up the like button, hit up the retweet button, guys.
hit up the like button hit up the retweet button guys it does a number of things helps bring more
people out into the room helps bring the show more onto the algorithm helps to bring out more
speakers and all that good stuff so go ahead retweet the room like comment anything that's uh
you'd like for us to discuss and also as i did yesterday, if there's any of you guys that want to
come up on the show and ask some questions or give your thoughts on the market, you guys can go ahead
and do that. Once you guys click the spaces tab, there also is a button to the bottom left with a
little microphone that says request. You guys want to come up once again, ask any questions or more
specifically talk markets, give your thoughts on the market.
Maybe there's something that you've been eyeing in the market over the last few weeks or months that we haven't discussed.
I'd love to hear it.
And I usually do this on Fridays, but lately, just because there's so much volatility in the market, I'd like to get more views, honestly.
So feel free to do that, guys.
Of course, I just do have to ask
that if you are going to come up, man,
to provide some decent discussion
and not just, like, ask a loaded question, man.
But either way, I want to hear from Naka first.
It's been a it's
been a while since um he uh hasn't come on the show man and i think with some things popping
off on eth mainnet i think it is i think it is uh very interesting you have vitalik selling his
eth saying that ai sucks but you've got some runners on chain on eth mainnet out of all things which is
honestly baffling um and base is a shit show you've got all these like larp ais trying to
profit off of uh off of the clodbot narrative and honestly shame on the clodbot guy to be honest like
he's not a giga chad like the truth terminal guy who gave us so many runners in q4 of 2024
he's just saying that you know crypto sucks and all that stuff i'm not gonna claim anything i'm
not gonna vouch for anything. Whatever, man.
Whatever. If you just want
your consumer
base to just be one small
demographic and that
mainly just being devs
and not so much
normie users,
then by all means, go ahead.
I do think Truth Terminal
actually onboarded a lot of crypto normies onto AI.
And I think there's an opportunity for that guy to do the same thing that Andy from Truth Terminal did.
But I'm going to pass it over to Naka.
Naka, what's going on, bro?
Great to have you, brother.
What are your thoughts on everything, man?
Feel free to give some of your
thoughts on uh this lobster clodbot thing it's uh i i honestly think it's it's it's more based than
than truth terminal this is like truth terminal on on roids and i've just got this feeling man
that going into the anthropic or open ai ipo there's going to be a wave of dubious speculation
um in crypto specifically the ai sector man and you know i understand oh crypto and ai
that that's that's a fugazi that's not going to happen but every cycle since 2017, or rather, I'm not going to call them cycles, man.
I'm going to call them seasons of risk on, cyclical seasons of risk on in crypto.
Since 2017, there's always been a wave of speculation.
2017, you had AGIX, a few other names.
Cycle after that, F render and then cycle after that we had
the on-chain run
with GOAT, AI-16Z
and all that good stuff
and here we are again
these things always follow with
a big narrative
in TradFi
you had the
whole thing with chips in late 22, right? You had the whole thing with Chips
in late 22, early 23,
and ChatGPT and all that stuff,
and we had that huge run.
And I think in 2017,
that's when that AGIX dude, Ben,
he was giving the Singularity Thesis, right?
Singularity Net Thesis.
I can't remember his last name but i know his first name is ben and he went on joe rogan so every few years you get this like
big push in ai over the last 10 years there's always this like big step in ai towards a
singularity and there's always an asymmetric trait to making crypto with that
attention and i don't think this time um is any different man um maybe q1 of next year
we uh we get those ipos and truth be told man, I understand Q4 is usually a season where people want to dubiously speculate on markets.
But as far as IPOs, a lot of them are usually launched in Q1.
Can you hear me?
Yeah, you're good, man. You're good.
Yeah, sorry. I just had some audio problems.
Yeah, I mean, there's a lot to talk about there.
I mean, from the crypto side, right,
a lot of people are ignoring a fairly obvious truth,
which is that we had a very big down move from 96k to about 60k which is huge um and after a big down move
uh people are expecting another move right like the bears are expecting another um another down
move and the bulls are expecting a v reversal and guess what neither of those are going to happen
uh i think we are in chop season for at least another two weeks could be
more but i think basically it's fairly safe chop season until mid-march so you know we had um
mike alfred and um all these people claiming like you know it's a bottom, you know, NACA is bearish, it's a bottom signal,
but like, it's not a bottom signal, it's not a top signal, it's a drop, right?
Yeah, does that make sense?
Yeah, yeah, I'm listening, man.
Yeah, sorry, I just had to confirm because I'm walking through absolutely pouring rain.
I don't know whether my hardware is actually still working properly.
But basically, on the crypto side,
I think after a big move, after consolidation,
what do we expect?
Like, what's the reasonable thing to expect
if you have a big down move and then a consolidation.
Anybody?
Yeah, I'm listening, man.
I thought you were going to continue, man.
I mean, what is it? If you had a down move and then you have a consolidation,
what do you expect next?
Oh, if we have a down move?
Honestly, man, I think the next...
If you have a down move and then a consolidation, right?
Just forget about the situation now.
I'll just think about it.
Like, any chart has a down move and then a consolidation.
What do you expect next?
I think it depends on
the context, man.
Man, I'm seeing pigeons. I don't think pigeons
are real, dude. I really
don't think pigeons are real.
Do you think pigeons are
real, man?
If I see a chart,
let me turn it all the way around. You see a chart,
you don't know anything about it, you see a big up move, and then you it all around. You see a chart, you don't know anything about it,
you see a big up move, and then you see a consolidation,
what do you expect to happen next?
Dude, honestly, man, I'm not even a chartist guy.
I usually just play events.
Okay, but I mean, if you ask the chartist in here,
that probably is a...
I'm going to put it in layman terms for wabi
wabi what happens when you see a hundred mil market cap shitter stop being able to push
through its ceiling and you just see a constant swap yeah of people just cheating and dumping
their supply yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah of course bro it's fucking cooked it's over bro yeah it's it's it's it's donezo um yeah i mean dude in
in in bear markets and like i mean we'll call it for what it is this is a higher time frame
downtrend um we're in a higher time frame downtrend until we reclaim the 2026 yearly open
um of course there's a lot of moves to catch from here until then whenever that happens
but we are in a higher time frame downtrend and the way these downtrends in crypto work
is you usually have a fall event down followed by consolidation you establish a range um and
then you just have a day where everything goes to shit, like we saw on 2.5, right?
And there's usually three legs down in these higher time frame bear markets.
So, 2022, you had the Ukraine, you had the Ukraine drop, and then the Luna drop, and then ultimately luna drop transferred over to 3ac and i mean the ftx
the ftx kind of extra dude it was it was so lackluster man that that drop that drop was
that drop was not shocking like you had bitcoin down 20% which is nothing that really wasn't
anything we dropped from 19 K it was maybe even a little bit from the high
like low it sounds a bit choppy from you right now man man. Can you hear me? No, it sounds like you're underwater, man.
Just, are you
close to being back indoors?
I basically
am underwater. It's raining so badly.
Are you walking?
Here in, here in, yeah, I'm
walking, yeah.
Oh, goodness, man.
Are you
in London? Have I fucked my night? Are you in London? No, I, man. Are you in London? Have I fucked my mind?
Are you in London?
No, I'm not.
I'm about 100 miles away from London.
Oh, my goodness, bro.
I thought you were in London.
Yeah, but I mean, 100 miles away from London is still pretty close to London on the American scale.
That's on the other side of Britain when you're on the island.
100 miles is like the other side of the island
yeah dude i just i just i just imagine you living in like a british village on like a hilltop and
shit um riding riding riding a bike with a hat and like a newspaper wearing a coat and it's just
like gloomy all the time bro i. I don't have a hat, but
basically the rest is accurate. I'm on a hill,
I'm in the countryside,
and I ride a bike.
I was right
on that.
Yeah. The point I was trying to make,
though, is basically, we should expect
the default expectation
is downtrend continuation.
I don't think it happens
yet um i think we're still in the chop zone um and i think that chop zone could last for like
you know maybe maybe the whole of next month or maybe half of next month and i think it's
reasonable to expect a bigger counter trend rally before we go down.
It's not 100%, but it's a reasonable expectation.
Pentoshi seems to think we're going to hit 74K, which is maybe a little bit ambitious.
But I think, you know, yeah, maybe we go to the low 70s at some point.
That wouldn't surprise me.
Man, I just had this feeling that clavicular is going to save the
market uh the moment that that clip came out where he was like ah bitcoin is crap crypto is a scam
uh that's when we started our bounce from 62k to just below 70 but you need a bigger moment you need a bigger moment where you have a big
social event like when ksi came on spaces twice one when luna went to zero and then he was just
right over and over and over and over again after basically losing most of his money when luna went
to zero i mean he made some of it back
and then ultimately the ftx crash when dude spaces back then were so were so wild man i mean people
think our spaces are wild now bro because i mean i i would say a lot of our audience now
is probably unaware of like the spaces we did in late 22 and throughout 2023 um i do think a lot
of market participants um made a ton of money throughout the last few years where they where
they're just like tuned out so people right now that are listening to these shows um they're kind
of shocked in how and and how people express themselves on spaces.
But that's just how the market is whenever there's volatility during uncertainty, right?
Crypto has largely been compressed in a range over the last, call it three weeks,
since we bottomed out on the 5th.
And although it has been a range, there's been incredible volatility
and there have been runners on chain.
I mean, dude, you have something on ETH
that has gone up like 15X.
You know, I don't see power.
It's this thing called power protocol.
I yapped about it on Spaces yesterday.
I'm like, what the hell is this?
It's some weird RWA thing.
It's something that
chico crypto uh i think he likes that um and it's just been going up only dude and
there's always a bull market somewhere but um right now the bull markets within the crypto space
are very limited very yeah right right right now right now there's a bull market
in push options.
Basically.
Push options and short positions
are in a bull market.
You forgot to ask the question.
Good evening, my little DJs.
Come on, bro.
I can't do it now.
I've got to do it when I start.
The other thing was you did want to talk about the whole sort of AI thing.
And I'm actually still somewhat bullish on crypto and AI.
I think that the kind of like clawed agent things are a necessary condition of that narrative becoming a thing,
but they're not the end point.
Because here's the thing,
these clawed bot agents and like, you know,
open clawed and all this stuff,
they're basically just agents that go and do stuff.
And you don't really need crypto for that, right?
Like most of these things are under the control
of a particular user for a particular purpose.
Nobody's really that keen on crypto, on AI agents becoming sovereigns and, you know,
crypto helping AI agents to take over the world is not a bush. That's bearish. That, you know,
the exchanges will get delisted and it all gets completely like fucked um so what's needed is a way for
ai agents to benefit from um trust minimized you know permissionless protocols without all going
crazy and doing crazy shit and trying to kill people and end the world and all this nonsense, right?
But it can't just be like, you know, oh, our agents are going to use like crypto rails to pay each other because, you know, crypto rails are, they're not dumb, right?
Like crypto rails don't work for the human economy because crypto rails don't currently
have all the advanced features of
the financial system right like why do you have banks rather than just paying people in you know
usdc on solana or you know heather on east well one reason is because if people are just using
stable coins for everything um you know it makes it harder for the government to collect taxes, makes it easier for
criminals and terrorists, etc. Governments don't actually want full financial freedom. And I think
most normal people don't want full financial freedom. Full freedom is chaos. It's a kind of
chaos monkey thing. It's insane. What you really want is you want to
build alternate institutions, right? So that means regulators. That means, you know, KYC that's done
in a crypto-friendly way, right? And people haven't built that shit yet, right? Like nobody's built that. So people want AI agents to moon on crypto, but they haven't done the work.
And so you have this kind of, you know, open clawed guy saying that crypto sucks, right?
You have like the most bullish guy in the world right now for crypto.
More bullish than Vitalik is telling you that crypto sucks.
And Vitalik is telling the that crypto sucks and vitalik
is telling the ai people that ai sucks right did you see that post that he made that like
vitalik is now siding with the people who are trying to ban data centers because he thinks
like you know blocking data development yeah so you have the ai guy saying that crypto
you have the ai guy saying that crypto sucks and you have the AI guy saying that crypto sucks, and you have the crypto guy saying that AI sucks. This sounds like a marriage that was made in hell, okay?
things and getting an even hotter thing right you have to come to terms with the fact that the
ai people don't like crypto and the crypto people don't like ai and worried about losing their jobs
like if you go to a normie and you tell them that not only are they going to lose their job
to a corporate ai but some like decentralized ai is going to like use crypto to help it take over
the world and kill everyone they're going to be they're going to be crypto to help it take over the world and kill everyone, they're going to be calling for Gary Gensler. They're going to be saying, get Gary Gensler
back in and not just regulate crypto, but just completely fucking ban it. So there's potential
for this to be very bearish if it isn't handled carefully. And handling it carefully means we have
to build alternate institutions, but that's not exciting people want quote-unquote
on-chain runners i.e ponzi schemes right we can't it can't be bullish it can't be bullish if all
people want to do is make ponzi schemes especially if it's a bear market a lot of people have said
that the macro situation is good for crypto right now i know there's been a lot of people have said that the macro situation is good for crypto, right? Now, I know there's
been a lot of talk about when people start doing macro LARPing, it's a bottom, because
nobody in the crypto space, nobody in the crypto space actually understands macro, so
they only ever start talking about it when they're really bearish. But let's do a little,
a little bit of macro, just of macro just for two minutes.
Wabi, give me a shout if you go to sleep, okay?
You got it?
Go to sleep? What do you mean?
Yeah.
I said I'm going to talk
about macro
for two minutes. Give me a shout.
If it's too boring.
Yeah, I mean, there's only certain
things in macro that make me fall asleep, to be honest.
I mean, dude, people think macro is boring now.
Oh, boy, they were not around in 2022.
You want to talk about macro?
Oh, my goodness, bro.
The thing with macro at the moment is people are generally somewhat bullish because they see that AI is good for the economy, and therefore, because AI is good for the economy, that means the asset prices are going to go up, right?
Macro all day, and the whole thing was all nonsense.
I'm listening, bro.
Does anyone want to disagree with that?
Say that again.
If the economy is strong,
asset price is going on.
Who's that?
That's wrong.
That's wrong.
That's wrong.
Yeah.
A strong economy is bad for financial assets.
Exactly.
A strong economy is not necessarily good and probably bad for financial assets.
Why?
Because the liquidity goes into building data centers instead of pumping your shit coins.
And those data centers are not giving you returns right now.
They're giving you returns in two, three, four years.
And in two or three or four years, maybe those returns will just get pumped into building even bigger data centers. So, you know, if there are very good investment opportunities in the real economy, that may be bearish for financial asset prices.
And in two or three or four years, maybe those returns will just get pumped into building even bigger data centers.
And so this is this is like another thing I think could kind of catch crypto participants off guard. They'll be like, wow, man, AI is booming. I'm just going to go all in like fucking Shiba Inu, you know, and then it like dumps another 90%, and they don't
understand why, and I think
basically that's the explanation.
So, that's my piece on that.
I feel you, man.
I'm not sure if
Vitalik is like any signal
for...
Is this the first time I've agreed with David?
That's pretty dangerous, right?
Dude, Vitalik...
You're catching on.
What do you want?
I'm screaming loud enough.
Eventually people catch on.
Vitalik is...
Vitalik is jester maxing, dude,
and he is losing so much aura dude like the amount of aura
that that guy is losing um on a on a weekly basis for the last few years
can i can i do a little bearish rant about ethereum it gets flipped by solana that's like the that's that's that's what let me let me let me let me
give you my bearish rental ethereum okay so you know you know it's crazy bro a lot of the laser
eyed btc people they actually like solana a lot of them like a lot of them like solana a lot of
them came from solana like there was. There was some doofus yesterday.
He's like, because fiat, right?
Because we, I don't know, we talk about trading and stuff, I guess.
And then like, I seem... Can I save my name?
Dude, I go through his profile and it's like a few months back,
he's like trading Solana NFTs on mobile is such an amazing experience.
Like this copy paste AI slop on his profile.
And it's like, damn, bro, like you must have not had a great time on those NFTs, buddy.
On on Magic Eden.
Yeah.
And NFTs have a way of wrecking people.
But here's my bearish rant on Ethereum, right?
So there are two things that Ethereum has claimed to be,
two big slogans.
One, decentralized world computer.
Two, ultrasound money, right?
You all remember that, right?
So I basically think that Ethereum has tried to be two things, and if it had just tried to be one of them, it probably would have won.
If it had just tried to be the decentralized world computer, it would probably be in a better place.
But it also wanted to be ultrasound money, and this has put it in a bad situation.
Because if you want to build the decentralized world computer
you can't also be ultrasound money and i'll tell you what hey naka in order to build
yeah never mind keep going i i want to ask you a question when you're done
okay in order to build in order to build the decentralized world computer
you need a lot of developers you need to spend a lot of money you need to get a lot of developers. You need to spend a lot of money. You need to get a lot of shit done.
In order to be ultrasound money,
you can't print any more tokens, right?
And the only way that a tech... So, you know, Decentralized World Computer
is basically a tech company.
You're going to be a tech company.
You're going to print a lot of shares.
You're going to sell the shares to shares. You're going to sell the shares to investors.
You're going to take the same raise money.
You're going to hire all sorts of employees who are going to contribute to building this decentralized world computer.
What Vitalik and his buddies have done is they've kind of become a bit like he's literally leaning into being like the Linux of the crypto world.
He's literally leaning into being like the Linux of the crypto world.
So he wants to have this asset, ETH,
which is actually disconnected from the company that tries to build
the decentralized world computer that ETH is supposed to be the token for.
It'll be kind of like if Zuck decided that Facebook shares
was supposed to be ultrasound money.
So he said, we're never going to print another Facebook share again.
You can never buy any more Facebook shares.
People who are already holders can still sell them, but that's it.
So obviously it'll be very good for holders.
And we're going to fund the entirety of the development of Facebook
through volunteer work and charity.
Well, what would probably happen to Facebook?
Obviously they'd have to fire all their devs, they'd have a tiny
team of volunteers, and the
product would go to shit. And this is basically what's
happened to Ethereum, right?
Vitalik shows the path
of being a charity,
of being a
kind of nerd
charity, like kind of
free software foundation
Richard Stallman, Linux, new kind of thing software foundation and richard stallman linux new kind of thing but with
crypto and i think that path is a dead end and that's why i'm actually i'm not necessarily
bearish short-term on the asset kind of attitude if it persists forever could be like the forever
top is in for ethereum right um so that was my bear speech i think was
it max you wanted to add something oh yeah um what's your thoughts on the new like roadmap
that they laid out like post quantum encryption and all that i mean post post quantum encryption
isn't a feature right it's It's just maintenance, right?
Like, post-quantum Ethereum won't have any extra features. The user won't find a better experience.
Aren't they doing something with the L2s? Wasn't that on the roadmap as well?
Well, Vitalik's latest announcement was that he was basically dumping L2s.
It was like, L2s are a mistake, we're going to scale the L1 instead.
Now that is actually positive, right2s are a mistake, we're going to scale the L1 instead. Now that is actually
positive, right? That is a
positive development.
But how fast are they going to do that?
Are they going to have
the developers, are they going to have the money
to develop that?
More TPS is nice,
but it's not the only problem Ethereum
has. In order to get
a normie to actually use
crypto you need more than just tps right you need all sorts of other things you need all sorts of
oracles and regulation and all this stuff otherwise crypto is never gonna get anywhere
now he has kind of like made some inroads and persuading various third world governments i think
it was was it nepal or
bhutan or something that was going to like you know put some kind of identity solution uh you
know for their citizens but like i don't know how serious that was and like it's bhutan it's
like this tiny little himalayan country that nobody's ever fucking heard of.
Like, it doesn't justify a trillion dollar market.
It's a trillion dollars, right?
Which is in the same ballpark as like NZ.
And what do you actually see?
You see like, you know, Vitalik and his communist entourage trying to turn it into Linux.
If Linux had shares, would they be worth a trillion dollars? Probably not.
I mean, you know, Linux exists, but it's not really worth anything.
So that's my take on it basically i'm kind of um
i'm bearish on the fact that ethereum doesn't want to print new tokens like what would make
me very bullish is actually if the talix sold more eith right if he printed 50 million e not 50 000 50 not 50 million dollars
but like i'm putting it a treasury and saying we're going to use the treasury to build ethereum
that would actually make me very bullish like long term obviously short term that would absolutely
destroy the price right but like in terms of ethereum actually achieving something and and later on becoming great that would make
yeah and then and then in the crypto world you know we have like the college selling like you
know fucking you know a thousand years here and there and people are getting pissed off it's like
no no he should be selling way more yeah Yeah, just
one clip it like a Chad, man.
That's what I would say.
No, I don't think you want one clip it.
I think what they should
actually do is they should print
like 20 million each.
They should put it staked.
So they should print and stake
20 million each and have the
staking revenue from that go to a fund that will help develop the protocol.
In fact, better than a fund, have like 10 different funds and then let the ETH stakers vote on which fund gets how much of the money.
That would actually be bullish.
Yeah. like that would that would actually be bullish yeah um yeah whenever eth bottoms out man i'm just excited for where virtuals is going to end up
um if ai is still going to be a a thing when that happens then i think that's going to be a great
trade i really don't care what anyone has to say when it comes to virtuals fud or any of that stuff um there isn't like another
project out there that's as well capitalized and actually is doing something um i look at tau FetTOW, Render, FET, AGIX.
Those are like Fugazis, honestly.
They're capped out.
They already ran.
Maybe Render.
Maybe, maybe, maybe.
I'm going to give them like a 30% chance that they can come back in some form.
I'm still bullish on virtuals, man.
And wherever the market bottoms out, dude, and virtuals runs,
game is going to be right there alongside with it.
And I would rather not gamble on, like, a lot of the beta names that come out once the market starts to recover in a big way.
Dude, Pippen keeps
making all-time highs that's that's that is ridiculous man um they crime this thing
to near a billion and i am not sure like how the hell this is happening unless it's an exchange holding 80% of the supply.
My goodness, man, talking about some AI projects, ARK is down 70% in a day that's like the biggest loser right now
it just crashed by 70 percent today from 130 mil all the way down to like 30 mil
that is insane and i actually thought that was going to be like the token that follows Pippen.
Maybe this is like a pullback before continuation.
The only thing is, is like it just made a low that it hasn't tested in over three months.
Not my bad, over two months excuse me um but
i guess not i guess not we'll see if it recovers uh that project isn't really putting out many
updates same thing with pippin so it's just like supply control mechanics um and these euthanasia roller coasters
that really started with White Whale.
You've never played on-chain on-soul, have you, Naka?
You've never actually gone on-soul to buy a shitter?
No, I did.
I've done some on-chain on Solana.
I made, I don't know, 5 or 10 souls
trading something in 2023 or 2024.
But generally, you know, I don't like trades where you have to close it trade where the trade is going to last for between
one month
and, like,
one year, right?
Maybe two years, right? That's
my ideal zone. No rush.
You know,
see what's happening. Allocate
the money. Hold,
wait, and take profit. I don't
want to be like, well, you bought the coin
at 5pm and then at 5.15 at
rugs. Like, fuck that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Prometheus, what are you saying,
man, about this crypto pullback?
I mean, monster move yesterday, probably rebalancing coming in on
a thursday uh i mean what else is there to say i mean it was impressive what we saw you know
yeah or i shouldn't say like impressive but uh definitely quite a big bounce to the upside um
yeah i mean i'm i'm still laying in wait, kind of patient.
I still think equities are kind of in the process
of rolling over for the most part.
Finally starting to see some weakness in Tesla.
I don't know if I was able to give my Tesla thesis
the other day, but love to see that.
Core Weave finally starting to take a nosedive.
And financials, I was looking at pnc
earlier today and looking at like regionals specifically um yeah i had a buddy point out
pnc to me and i took a look at that chart one look at that chart and was like um you know just
praying for the future of regional banks really i see crypto
right now and i like the discussion that we've been having thus far obviously you know the
ethereum discussion is pretty pertinent i don't really want to get into the micro strategy talk
or trade anymore i think we've probably you know beaten the dead horse enough at this point on the show but um i mean you know
locally speaking if i'm looking at ethan solana if you can get above your 30-day rolling vwops
if you can kind of get some breadth above the range highs that we tapped yesterday on the
video earnings announcement um you know that's a fantastic look for continuation higher, probably to 2,500 for ETH.
Solana up to 110.
That's kind of like my upside targets for those two assets at this point, if we were to get it, if we were to see it.
I do want to note that, I mean, NVIDIA crushed earnings, right?
They came in and as expected, you know, nothing new, right?
They just come in, they slaughter innings, they completely be across the front.
And we open up today red and we start selling off right throughout the day.
And I think that's pretty worrisome if I'm bullish on this market right now.
And I've mentioned this in the space yesterday, I mentioned this in the space before, but that AI trade has been the
driver of flows for the past 12 to 24 months. What happens when that disappears? Do we really think
that energy and staples are going to be able to carry the market and be supportive enough in nature
to substitute the lack of participation that we're seeing in technology and software and
kind of across the board? I think not. Can I ask you a question? Why does it matter?
Why does it matter? If staples and utilities and healthcare are melting up and drinking in and
siphoning all that tech money, why can't capital just migrate to what's working? What is the religion that requires you to make money in how you want
instead of make money when the money wants?
The market.
The market's telling you to buy something.
Why are we so arrogant to not buy it?
I don't understand.
You're saying that Staples, utilities, healthcare going up
will not hold the larger index up, right?
Yeah, I would tell you. If up, right? Yeah, I have a tough time.
If tech rolls over.
Yeah, I do.
And I agree with you.
Because of the bloated evaluation.
I totally agree with you.
So why aren't we talking about people migrating capital to what's got a rising RSI and a rising skew?
Why do people have to think the only way to make money is in tech and crypto and AI,
which is collapsing? No, I mean, I don't think that's the only way to make money at all. I mean,
I've been long AROC, Chevron, Exxon for much lower. Okay. So you're buying things that are
going up theoretically that those are going up now. I'm sure they won't go up nearly as long
as the others, but they're going up now and you're making money and that's great.
Why are people so brain crushed that they have to get stuck in AI and tech?
Software was so dead.
Of course, it's going to get a bounce and they're going to cross.
I can help.
I can help answer that question, David. majority of especially the younger generation i should say the newer participants um within the
financial markets they have not seen a market for the majority of people have not seen a market
where you can actually make meaningful money outside of tech um and because of that they
don't have that experience that you do um or that you know people that have been in these markets for
a lengthened period of time multiple cycles correct
where they're so but it's our job to wake people up that's our job i agree and i wish we could
stop i wish we could stop this insane buying dips in shit that's going down okay Wabi's, your space had 3,500 listens last week, then 75 and two 14,000s in a row.
We have to amplify this message so we can stop people from emptying their bags. Now,
please everyone retweet the space right now. And then in a half an hour, Yesterday was 14,000 people getting exposed to truth, not just lies, not CLSD, not,
oh, Meta's up 20 days in a row. Go get him. Give me a break. There are things that are working.
There are things that are not working. There are things where money's going.
You don't want to buy the top on Meta. You don't want to top blast that with the bros,
with the homies and old hands?
No, but that's what Wabi's here for.
That's what you're here for.
That's what I'm here for.
David, someone says if you can yell a little bit more because he's trying to wake up the neighborhood.
Well, I will tell you, I will just say one thing.
I'm happy to be here.
I canceled my own spaces several days in a row because we're getting a message out.
But I will never participate again if someone comes up, lies about my record, and interferes
with my ability to convince even just one person there's another way other than hodling
an altcoin into zero and having nothing at the end of this cycle
instead of having real money no one will be allowed to do that again i took two guys off a block and
then a third one okay but if someone's gonna lie about me you gotta stop that it's your responsibility hey hey i had your back brother what do you what do you
what do you think about
the nasdaq here
my view is very clear we're going to lose
one decimal on the nasdaq
and more than one on bitcoin
and the reason i say this is because
what do you
what do you mean one decimal on the nasdaq can you explain
what you mean by that from 20
stocks like nvidia lose 90 percent What do you mean one decimal on the NASDAQ? Can you explain what you mean by that? From 20?
Stocks like NVIDIA lose 90%. Okay, I understand you don't agree with me now.
You don't have to.
I'm bearish, but I'm not that bearish.
Of course not, because you're not seeing what I'm seeing.
I have a framework that's called quantum finance.
Micro, macro,
we add up everything. I have $400 trillion of bonds in my model you're not even looking at.
We have a four-year, one basis point. It's actually a quarter basis point from a new low
of the year. We take out four. You've got the S&P 1% from an all-time high about,
and you've got bond yields melting. What does that mean to people? They know I'm trying to teach
them. The banks have no future in a crypto world. They have a future as agents. They don't have a future as agents they don't have a future as leveraged institutions the yield curve
has no path but inversion nobody understands this everybody steep the curve people are making money
on their two-year and they're getting ripped on their long end and they don't notice because
they're making so much money on the short end what happens we flatten? All they do is take losses. So I'm trying to get
a message out that there's something that's more dominant than what's been going on the last 23
years. We went from a NASDAQ 100 of the QQQ of under $20 on October 8, 2002, we got to $630. That's the whole time frame.
23 years in a day. We're only 9% above the dot-com peak in terms of the NASDAQ denominated
and the S&P. This whole house of cards is all hopium and fakery. There's no awareness of the no-pium.
Rates are coming down and nobody cares. They think it's good. It's a disaster. It's going to drive
the dollar up 25%. It's going to suck all the life out of gold and oil and all the parking places on
the way to its next destination, Staples Utilities Healthcare,
and then it's only going to be mortgages and bonds, and then it's only going to be bonds.
You're going to have to raise rates massively to get these bond deals up. Mortgage rates are
going to collapse. Main Street is going to have the best time. Everyone's talking about, oh,
the end of days. Can try like them but he's
like small cap are you kidding me the whole system is going to be rebuilt small caps are the last of
the people you're going to have these what do you say canter as in michael yes he was here yesterday
what what did what no he's constructed because the standard playbook is ISM over 50, you buy small caps.
But that won't work in this cycle because of the other dynamics.
We have so much deflation in the system.
The dollar has nowhere to go up massively.
There's not going to be that kind of liquidity.
We're going to have a real economy, not a financialized economy, not a World Economic Forum economy. We're going to have a real economy, not a financialized economy, not a World Economic Forum economy.
We're going to have a real economy where you're building a home and it's an HVAC and a plumber and a framer and a carpenter and a roofer.
That's not...
Well, I mean, one thing is if you believe in AI productivity, then that is probably going to...
I don't care about AI productivity.
That's meaningless to me.
I care about the capital that AI diverted away from Main Street on the belief that these things are ever going to make money.
We will have dark data centers like we had dark fiber in 2000.
There will not be a Jeppens paradox without a wormhole of time.
You're going to need a decade at least
to be able to consume all the compute potential once software really accelerates.
The problem is nobody is talking about the $400 trillion elephant in the room.
Nobody cares about it.
Nobody notices it.
And it doesn't.
It's here.
Oh, no.
No, no.
Press, press, press.
No, no. It works. It works. Okay. It's and it doesn't. It's here. Oh, no. No, no, press, press. No, no, it works.
It works.
Okay, it's got to work.
Did the elephant just find you?
No, no, the elevator's here.
The guy, anyway, he missed it.
Okay.
Oh, that was an elevator, not an elephant.
There was a fellow trying to get the elevator,
and he said he'd rather walk than wait.
Naka, what would you do if you were inside an elevator with vitalik man honestly i mean i have chatted to vitalik before um and i you know i had some
had some interesting discussions with him i think what i tell him now is basically he needs to print
i would say vitalik needs to print 20 million ETH. Do you think that will have any constructive effect on the price when mortgage rates
are 4%?
If Vitalik prints
20% of the supply on ETH,
it will probably go lower.
Are you telling everyone to short ETH or buy it?
Which one?
Right now,
I would not short.
I don't want to touch it now
because I'm bearish on it, but it's down a lot.
I mean, I hear that you're a smart guy.
You have a nice accent, but you're talking about stuff that can't make anybody any money.
You're not explaining the dynamics of this market.
When I say I want Vitalik to print 20 million ETH, that is about the long-term trajectory.
We'll be dead by then.
I'm talking about like 10 years.
I'll be dead by then.
Let's make people money today and tomorrow.
We just quadrupled this program in a week.
Let's get it bigger because people learn.
If you want to make money right now i would just not belong crypto okay
don't belong crypto you know this idea of like you know belong real stuff or energy or yeah maybe
but i don't know about that stuff like all i know about is crypto and ai and i'm telling you that
crypto is probably probably bearish right now so probably for the next nine months so don't
don't be long oh maybe if you want to short short some shorts and pops right if it pops off to 74k
i would short that so crypto is about four basis points of the world's assets how about let's deal
with the other 99.96 how about i mean a lot of those a lot of those assets have very low volatility How about that? with your own personal money you are so misdating what i do you are so misdating what i do it's so
disappointing you should know that i'm not telling people that oh let's make three percent in a year
what i'm talking about are forces beyond anything you could even calculate are building energy and
engine and entropy and force it's going to destroy so many things. J.P. Morgan won't survive
50% of its current price. Berkshire Hathaway won't stay above 50% of its current price.
These are not 1% granny type of returns. The instability of the market is at hand,
and nobody's talking about it. We have rates about to collapse to four-year lows,
and nobody's talking about it. We have rates about to collapse to four-year lows,
and everybody was promised higher for longer. Powell is an asshole. These guys are crazy.
They say, we have the power to stop a market. You're going to stop a quadrillion dollars,
you freak of nature, you hater of America. You are selling or rolling off $420 billion of mortgages.
Why don't you just not roll them off?
Recycle them.
Main Street America could get a better deal on a mortgage rate.
Well, guess what?
The clown show was over because the mortgages are laughing at them.
There's nothing they can do to stop this.
Mortgage rates aren't just going to stop at $599 where they were yesterday.
And they're not going to stop at $499. And they're not going to stop at $599 where they were yesterday. And they're not going to stop at $499.
And they're not going to stop at $399.
And all the systems and all this AI and all this tech that got diverted money,
it was a transitory diversion.
It's like Samson in the temple.
One hand on each pillar.
S&P go up.
Yields go down.
Okay.
Rates going down.
People think it's good for stocks.
They don't get it.
I mean, it usually is.
That's right, but now it isn't.
We were maximum long.
We were maximum long October 28th, 2022.
In a post, it's one of my pin tweets, just two above my pin tweet,
because you had an inverted curve and cutting steepens the curve.
And you take Citibank from $40 a share up.
And now you have the mid-cycle where the curve is actually steep in the middle of the
range, and you create barely anything. And we said before this rate cut cycle, before September 17,
25, it won't help. It won't help stocks. It won't cause long-term yields to go up.
long-term yields to go up. We are now below December 10, 25, October 29, 25, September 17,
25, December 18, 24, November 7, gone, with all due respect to Evan, whatever the
gentleman's name from yesterday, said, oh, maybe we go down there. What happens when you go to a
five-year low, a four-year low? You've trapped all these bulls or bears, whether it's a bond bear or a yield bull it's a disaster the banks that
produce a lot of credit around the world are going to see a flatter curve look at the uk
10-year guilt today it's down to a new year low yeah david um so you have a strategy when you
trade right would you ever um like if you were able to would you be able to have a strategy when you trade, right? Would you ever, like if you were able to,
would you be able to automate a strategy?
No, impossible.
So how do you usually navigate?
Is there a specific line of framework?
The primary framework, I'll put it right up in the nest right now.
It's from my fund that's going to be stood up next week.
I'm going to put it up right in the nest.
Everyone can take a look at it. I'll put up two separate, I'll put up four separate pictures. All right.
This is the basic framework. This is the understanding of volatility. This is the
this is the RDAP, which is why we're going to have deflation for a decade.
This is the RDAP, which is why we're going to have deflation for a decade.
And this is, well, we'll put this one up.
Okay.
So I'm setting these up.
And I'm going to send it up to the nest so it's easier.
Okay.
So this shows you that the markets have two poles.
One is risk on, meaning the NASDAQ outperforms the S&P,
and it did that by a 600% ratio from October 12, 90 to March 10, 2000. Two weeks later,
the NASDAQ starts to decline of 83.6% and 90% on the XLK, and 93% basically if you put your money in XLP instead of XLK.
So that's when the NASDAQ is leading on the way up.
It's 85% of the time.
15% of the time, treasuries outperform mortgages.
And when you have NASDAQ outperforming, It's because they're printing money, weakening the dollar, devaluing
debt, and innovation is
subsidized by negative cost of capital.
It's working. It's just slow.
Okay.
But now we're done.
We've taken the equity markets
to one full
turn more than we had at the
dot-com peak, which produced a
move from 120, 50 down to 20.
4,800 on the NASDAQ 100 down to 800.
People say, oh, it's different.
This time these companies are profitable.
It is not at all different.
Greenspan deflated on purpose.
The NASDAQ buy not cutting after the peak.
And this guy Powell, after the July 10th, 2024 peak of the NASDAQ over the S&P,
it stopped outperforming after 5,711 days.
And what happens?
It starts on.
What does Powell do?
Does he let it?
He's got to try to get Kamala Harris elected.
He's got to try to hurt Trump.
So he cuts rates.
He weakens the dollar by 12%, 13%, 14%.
It raises the free cash flow of these tech stocks because they're export earnings.
He steepens the curve.
He helps the banks.
He takes mortgage rates down so low
and treasure rates down so low
that now Americans can borrow money at less than 3%
using the 18-month-out SOFR curve
and you could buy a mortgage paying you almost 5%.
So you're making over 200 basis points
with no credit risk.
And that's building up in the system more and more
leverage. That's why the curves are flattening. I put it up in the nest. Look at all the sections
of the curve. The three-year minus the two-year was inverted before the auction, and now it's
almost back. The five-year from the two-year, you got 13 basis points. When the five-year is under the two-year and under the Fed funds rate, you're
talking about $20 trillion or 67% of all outstanding marketable treasuries underneath
the Fed funds rate. And if you don't think that that's going to lift the dollar, you don't have
good math skills. You can't have a rate higher than a market rate and think that that's an acceptable rate.
You're seeing our curve drive the UK to new one-year lows.
They're going to be cutting.
We're driving the German rate down a four-month low and seven basis points or six,
depending who you talk to.
You will break the trend line from their one-year low.
These countries have no growth,
their inflation is falling, and they're just holding their rates up to hurt Trump, who I did not vote for. So it's not like I'm a MAGA conspiracy theorist. It's never happened before,
they're doing it now, and it's not going to last. Our mortgage rates are falling. They're the most powerful force when NASDAQ is fully valued.
It's $13 trillion, and everybody in the mortgage market, 99% of them believe the curve is going to
steepen, and they don't have to worry about prepayments, and they don't have to rebalance
their duration, and they're all wrong. It's okay. We're talking about it. We're highlighting it. The polarity radio is the only space anywhere in finance that called for new low mortgage rates
under growth, not low mortgage rates under recession, under growth, because growth eats
away at the deficit. You collect more taxes. It reduces inflation because you have more capacity building.
The Fed then cuts rates.
You lose a fiscal deficit.
It goes away.
We drop 1.4% of the deficit.
We're running out of collateral.
These two years are used all around the world as collateral.
And as they go up, and then as the dollar goes up with them going up,
remember, everybody was told lower rates versus Europe, bad for dollar.
Well, we stopped going down a year ago. Six told lower rates versus Europe, bad for dollar. Well,
we stopped going down a year ago, six months, seven months ago, excuse me. The 50-year moving average, 50 years, 200 quarters is under 99. We're almost there. We came from 70.805 in 2008. We're just going 45 degrees.
We'll slice through all the noise, all the hopium.
When you're buying this AI, a pair trade at an institution, buy some euro, weaken the dollar so my cash flow is up.
The whole story is falling apart.
And when you look at what happened in the GFC, they spiked treasury volatility.
And when you look at what happened in the GFC, they spiked treasury volatility.
And they spiked it from its trend line called the move index for a couple of years, a certain amount.
We are, if you adjust for the balance sheet, we're like three times as much deformed as we were then.
We have so much deflation.
It's not the productivity of AI that's We have so much deflation. It's not the productivity
of AI that's going to cause the deflation. That will, over time, what is, is all the
misapplied capital that went into companies that can't possibly all be profitable. 700 billion,
they're taking out debt. Do you know that all of these companies,
Google, Amazon, they're using 100% of their cash flow to build out because they're paranoid,
and they should be. The problem is the dollar won't stay down. The flattening curves will
cause them. It will cause it. It militates it. It's not a guess. It's not an opinion.
It's a mathematical certainty. It's not an opinion. It's a mathematical certainty.
It will cause dollar strength and a policy response all over the world. And the emerging markets who people are hiding in, they will blow up like Greenspan blew them up in 1997,
99 days after he hiked rates on March 25th, because inflation was 1.97.
because inflation was 1.97. When Powell didn't cut on January 28th, it's like policy equivalence.
When you have rising inflation or stable and elevated inflation and you hike, you're stable.
When you hike more than inflation's going up, you're tightening. when you don't cut and inflation is falling like what we have now
they hike and look at the market look at look at software so you got a little overdone on the
on the microsofty okay well guess what you spend a little time converging bring down the hardware
bid up the software they're all going lower because the
dollar is going to go up and destroy the cash flow they think they're going to have. There's none,
and they're using debt. And when Google announced a $20 billion offering, I was out there saying,
they're going to Oracle this thing. Not as bad as Oracle down 60 or 55. Oracle borrowed $18 billion
under questionable financials, and the credit default swap crew
decided, you know what, let's get some more collateral on these loans. So they short,
and they kept on shorting, and they never found a bid. The same thing's happening with Google.
They issue 20 billion, people are suspect, they short. The same thing with strategy against its
preference. They all have a destination much, much lower. Everyone
is so bullish, they're buying every dip, but the institutions are not. And when we go into a down
10%, hedge funds will start shorting the stock. And when we're down 20%, they'll call the hedge,
the mutual funds or the institution and say, I can take 100,000 shares of Microsoft when it's lower.
Why? Because they've been shorting it on the way down and they can offload at a fixed price,
at their profit. The system is unwinding. You could not notice it. That's your prerogative.
But we do not have the right to not explain to you why it's happening and why it's not a feeling.
It's not a sentiment. It's not a sentiment, it's not a
guess. It's a mechanical model of the framework of a system where you have entanglement between
bonds and Bitcoin, between NASDAQ and the 30-year treasury. So when you have the NASDAQ at a high
or the S&P at a high and you have yields at a low, one of those is going to pull the other
one over that tug of war. And we got 400 billion of bonds. We have people thinking inflation is
real and it's already gone. And you have too much savings in the system. And look what we're doing
to the longer rates. We're destroying them. And as they go lower and you get a policy response,
the deficits go away. When you think about the U.S. at a three and five ace on its way to
zero again, what is that? Three times 10, 11 trillion? That's $330 billion. That's more than one times gdp just the rate cuts alone destroy all that supply
coming into the market so if you're not noticing things that are going up like the the ultra bond
had a 90 day high close today you have a 10 year about to get everyone myself included that shorted at four percent
and then trump announced you know mortgages are going to be consumed 200 billion and another 200
billion so you short the 10-year and you buy the mortgage those spreads tightens but now
staying short the 10-year it's a recipe of giving money to your counterparty.
Banks don't like a flatter curve, and I put up in the nest the curves.
All the sections, 3 to 2, 5 to 3, 7 to 5.
We had an auction today on the 7-year.
Yesterday's 5-year was not great.
Today was delicious.
We are almost at below 4. We're almost at a 3-year. Yesterday's five-year was not great. Today was delicious. We are almost at below four.
We're almost at a three-year low. Let's not have a dogfight. This is not the air over
Nazi Germany. No dogfights. So in the NASDAQ, I have the general framework it's the liquidity it's showing how when the nasdaq is
dominance 85 of the time it's accelerating versus the s&p starting on november 21 2008 or october 8
2002 one is the 32x the other is 24x but now we are the NASDAQ has underperformed the S&P since November 10th, my pinned tweet.
Nobody notices it.
Nobody wants to talk about it.
And if you trade in volatility, you would have made a fortune shorting NASDAQ volatility against S&P because you're getting paid for the higher volatility and it didn't go anywhere.
So now we have mortgages,
we have mortgage rates falling. That's the lifeblood of the banks. They're not earning
money on the credit. Investment-grade credit is tighter than it's been in 27 years.
They borrowed risk-free Placettini, but they're getting nothing. They borrowed risk-free plus a teeny,
but they're getting nothing.
They were making good money on mortgages.
They're not doing that anymore. They're getting
scraped by the independent mortgage
brokers. So please, folks,
just stop with the rearview
mirror nonsense. This is not
a freaking game.
Get serious with a stupid
print a million of this.
What is working now on a daily, a weekly, a monthly RSI?
What is durable?
Where is your money protected?
I'd rather have one times levered on an XLP
than a low-rated, low-cap member of XLP.
The liquidity is exiting.
It's slow.
Institutions meet once a month,
and they're getting the recommendation,
let's reduce our tech holdings by 2%,
one of those at least in semis.
So you'll see selling pressure.
You won't see a bit.
You'll see volatility expand in the NASDAQ,
not so much the S&P.
But folks, if you were the only person on planet Earth for the last 23 years,
and all you did was hit the buy button, you were rewarded. You didn't need to talk to people.
You do not need a sell-side analyst when the market's going up. And the last
thing you need is a sell-side analyst when markets are going down, because they're going to pump you
into it. Just watch the new high list. It's not more complicated. Once a week, take a look,
sell some of your losers, and find some some winners because there are a lot of them.
You can't have an AI data center without electricity.
Maybe it would have occurred to someone to buy utilities when they were two standard
deviations cheap last year.
Maybe.
No, you got to buy altcoins.
You lost half of your money on Bitcoin.
You're going to lose half of it again and you'll lose
half of it again and half it again because it's going below 10 000 and you can fantasize that
it's not there's not going to be liquidity in innovation it's over it's going to low beta
and low beta will become a high beta because so much money is going in there. But stop with a DCA on the way down.
How about selling on the way up,
lowering your risk, lowering your loss?
We were down at 61.
It's up in the nest.
And this is what I demand.
If some idiot says,
I said it's going to 10 in a straight line, that's a lie.
It shows my April 7th cover at 75, and it shows my February 5th levered long flattener.
Okay.
Levered, excuse me, levered short, my S bit.
Levered short, February 5th.
It's up in the nest. So I don't want anyone lying that I'm a perma bear, ride or die. I flow with the market. We had volatility spike 80%
in six hours. Do you have any idea what kind of liquidity gap that was?
Do you have any idea what kind of liquidity gap that was?
I want that liquidity gap.
I ran over my enemies.
I drank their tears.
But then I was not thirsty anymore, so I got flat.
Don't listen to liars who say, I said it goes to 10 straight.
I have two covers.
Did you get flat or did you get fat?
No, flat.
No, no, I'm not playing that game.
I'm flat. I thought we, I'm not playing that game. I'm flat.
I thought we could get a lift like we did.
I want either higher prices and lower volatility or lower prices and low volatility.
I'm not doing anything until volatility comes in.
It's illiquid, and I'm not taking random noise.
I'm not interested in that.
I don't have to have every piece of everything.
Would you just pair with your – you said you want low prices and lower volatility and higher prices and what volatility?
No, low volatility and high prices, low volatility and low prices.
I don't care about the –
Low vol with both.
Okay.
Yeah, I just want volatility down, which means that the institutional selling is dominating the hopiomites.
That means that the institutional selling is dominating the hopiomites.
Okay.
David, but remember, if hyperliquid trades between $8 to $12.
Yes, I understand.
I have some obligation.
I don't know what it is.
You got to do it, man.
If you put in a stack and it goes to $20,000, David, we got to go to Disney.
What do you mean on me, baby?
On me.
I'm doing
next...
I do monthly meetings for my
subscribers, and now we're letting our
non-subscribers get a taste
of the community of
conversation that we have. And we're going to
be in Orlando next summer.
I mean, next spring. Excuse me.
Next fall. We're going to be in Miami,
Tallahassee, excuse me, next fall. We're going to be in Miami, Tallahassee,
everywhere in Florida next fall.
Florida is the best state, man, I tell you. In the New York winter?
Are you kidding me?
It's disgusting up here.
Forget about it, bro.
Forget about it.
Get out of here.
Let's get some thoughts from Pollo.
Pollo, welcome to the hog pen.
What's up, bro?
Wow, what an honor it is to be up here.
You control, bro. 10 10 23 p.m uh had to turn the noise on my phone down significantly uh
david levinson loves a shouty shouty rant uh here for it david love the love the passion mate but
yeah definitely i had to decrease the decibel level on that one maybe you could just turn down the volume dude you should have been here yesterday man 14k 14k
people heard it dude dude yesterday was uh was was it dude it was octagon prime octagon prime
yeah it was like it was like from the attitude era in in WWF, bro. We had some guy, I think
he got blown up from
Fidelity, bro, but he came in here and he's like,
shut the fuck up. He shut the fuck up.
It was the greatest thing
ever, man. He's not Greek,
but didn't he throw some dishes down in the middle
of that rant? Didn't you hear crashing dishes?
Yeah, it literally sounded like he threw flights.
It was insane.
I am so jazzed.
It's like, if I ever become homeless, I can move into his head.
Man, dude.
Yeah, it just reminded me of, I think Prometheus said it.
It's like being on the ground floor of 1980s nasdaq bro like right on the trading floor
which i mean in all honesty man anyone who survived 87 97 2000 their their their characters
this is before my time this is far before my time i mean it's basically like i would consider 1987
2022 in may when luna blew up, where eventually the market just recovered.
But Poyo, what are your thoughts?
Wait, wait, wait.
How about 74 when oil started moving in 73 from 290 to 40, 1400 percent, and rates went to 2236?
that's a bear market these other ones are a little pishikakas yeah um in the 70s you had guys like
That's a bear market.
These other ones are a little pishikakas.
Yeah.
schwarzenegger and stallone come out to the woodwork you know what's weird man like when
you go to a gym and then you see people who go to your gym in your building it's like the strangest
thing i don't live i don't live in the building can't relate to that brother and and i and i tell you what bro i tell you what like there's a there's a lady she's an
instagram model uh here we go here we go here we go i've seen her around i've seen her around
for years dude and i remember one time i'm going through the lobby i opened the door
and uh the door the to go through the, there's like this weird section of first story apartments.
And I see her come out and like in her PJs.
I think she thought I was like some Amazon delivery driver.
And she was just shocked.
Like I almost run into her and she's just shocked.
And she immediately runs back into her room. And then later on that week, I go to this convenience store.
And that's located, like, right outside the building.
So there are these apartments in the corner.
And I'm walking past the elevator.
And, dude, this lady is, like, exiting some guy's apartment.
And she sees me again.
And she's in her lingerie.
And I'm just like like i didn't see
anything dude and then it happens again with her neighbor so i've seen this lady i don't i don't
believe this this is in the this is imagination in the penal code that's called stalking
dude no no no because i'm just walking minding my own business. I take a walk every day. And she shows up. And I have to go through this.
It's really strange.
Tell that to the judge.
It's really strange, man.
But anyway.
I don't believe these stories.
I don't believe them.
It's similar to your Subway story from this morning.
I don't know what you're talking about, bro.
This is market talk.
This isn't ATP, bro.
Yeah, this is professional, Wabi, man.
Yeah, yeah.
You gotta, if you wanna see what he's actually like.
Yeah, dude, I've never understood the concept of subway.
I mean, that's like the most un-American thing you can do.
If you're American, you should be going to coffee.
Subway is diarrhea on a plate.
Yeah, that's for real, man.
But Poyol, dude, feel free to give some of your thoughts on the market, man.
ZachXBT put Axiom under the bus.
Oh, man.
Market does not give a shit.
Solana isn't really doing much.
Onchain isn't really doing much.
Sounds like they're
after you my friend sounds that that was what sounds like some people are after you i'm getting
some background noise there oh shit uh-oh i gotta hide man yeah good luck uh you hiding
slightly probably slightly slightly harder for you to hide than most people, I'm guessing. Yeah, it's like when Eric Trump started deleting his crypto tweets, wasn't it?
Yeah, he's not a big Wolfie fan.
But no, Penguin RJ hosted a space for a few hours when it was all going down.
Heard from Brooks himself.
There's been a recording from that space that's being clipped.
It was an unrecorded space but uh yeah Brooks is essentially
owned up to what he did uh and therefore he's kind of self-incriminating in a way if you go
listen to the recording you'll know what exactly what I mean but uh yeah he probably should have
spoken to a lawyer before going up on stage in front of 400 people and giving his thoughts on what he done but I'm not lawyer
just seemed a little a little bit silly on his behalf but it's crypto you can kind of
get away with far worse I fear so probably a bit of a nothing burger in a few months
time but who knows Who's Bricks, man? Brooks. Oh.
Brooks or Brooks?
Brooks.
The main employee.
He's been...
Well, ex-employee. He's been fired now.
I mean, wasn't Axiom a thing
last year up until
Trump and Melania?
No, Axiom's still been one of the main ones.
They still have like a thousand affiliates.
I couldn't believe how many affiliates they have.
No, they're still doing well.
I just think that this Brooks bloke
was doing slightly better
considering he was tracking everybody's wallets.
He was using it,
accessing confidential data,
which he shouldn't have had access to.
But it's a whole thing.
It's quite a lot to wrap your head around.
I don't know if you care for it or not.
It's all good, man.
I mean, Coinbase is still hiring employees, man.
And what's funny is that the average Coinbase employee doesn't really last more than a year
and a half, two years.
And that's a given as to why.
I mean, imagine getting hired by Coinbase and like, hey, I just interviewed this one protocol.
They're trading at 15 mil market cap.
I'm going to go buy a stack real quick, tell my boys to buy it.
And then by the time it gets listed, you're up like 10x and you make your bag well
one and a half to two years i mean i was always under the impression in the more corporate world
you you go six months you either go shoot for a promotion or you move along and keep it keep it
pushing try and get better and better two years that's not a while to work at a company in this
day and age yeah i mean with with crypto people just get greedy and greedy and
greedy before it would just be like i'm gonna stay at a company for multiple years like you look at
cases like jamie diamond dude that guy became vice president of a of a pretty large firm in
his late 20s dude you compare most people in their late 20s they're here in the trenches with us bro
not working in some big firm.
Jamie's career max, bro.
That's what he's doing.
Yeah, dude, I think he's been in banking for like four decades.
Who has?
At this point, dude.
Jamie Dimon.
He's like the CEO of Chase Bank.
All right.
Oh, mate, We got Grant Cardone
I haven't spoken to him in years
Absolutely
He comes on like every day now
I used to speak to him in a shilling villain space
Oh my god, what a throwback this is
I think I made a weird joke to him
And he just found it funny
And then we gotta hit it off from there.
Good old Grant, mate.
Yes, I sent him an invite to speak.
We've had some characters in here, man.
Peter Schiff comes on sometimes.
A lot of heads front types come through, like Michael Cantrell and all that stuff.
I pinned up, by the way, that clip of him basically self-excriminating, if anybody cared.
Oh, Brox.
I see.
The Brox guy, yeah.
That's definitely Brox.
Okay, okay.
What's going on, Uncle Grant?
Big GC, how are you?
What up, players?
Mate, I was actually, I was creasing.
So I was scrolling, or doom scrolling Instagram,
you know, going past Cavalic and this, that, and then guess who I see pop up on my phone?
Boom, it's Grant Cardone interviewing someone, telling him to send him a cup of water,
and he couldn't do it, and he got absolutely rinsed by, he was like,
inspired he's like you don't have what it takes i'm afraid you're gone you're done
you don't have what it takes, I'm afraid, you're gone, you're done.
yeah we did two seasons of that we never sold the show but it was awesome it was basically uh
uh what happened was i was trying to hire people in miami this is probably
uh we got here 13 years ago maybe 10 years ago and my coo I was sitting down to do an interview and I'm asking the person,
how old are you? You know, where are you from? What kind of drugs do you use? Uh, who's your
sexual partner partners in my COO said, look, you can't ask those questions. I'm like, what the
fuck? I'm going to pay him. I want to know who the fuck, what I'm Grant Cardone. God, I'm fucking paying them. I want to know who the fuck they are'm grant cardone god damn it i'm i'm fucking paying
them i want to know who the fuck they are so she says no no we're going to get sued if you ask
those questions i said okay so i can't ask those people that in a job interview let's do a tv show
and get the employees or the wannabe employees to sign off that i can ask them anything
we interviewed i don't know 200 people put it on
video they agreed to be on the show it was called whatever it takes it's on youtube now
you look up grant cardone and whatever it takes and dude it was brutal it was the apprentice on
steroids the fact that it's still like there's still clips of it. Yeah, we would bring people.
People would come in and we'd put them in a lineup.
And I'd go through their bags, their phones.
I'm finding dick pics.
We're finding fucking drugs in their, you know, drugs in their bags.
What drugs do I take?
Do peptides count?
Grant, what are we talking about?
What's the name of this again?
I don't know.
It's called Whatever It Takes.
It's on YouTube.
Just put in Grant Cardone and Whatever It Takes, and you'll find.
I think there was 20 or 22.
It's fucking hilarious.
Was there anyone remotely impressive or no?
Yeah, dude.
I hired one guy that's still there today he makes
a million dollars with me now i mean yeah yeah there was there was i mean there's a guy that
came without legs fuck i mean it was insane dude he was just we popped a wheelie. We did a paintball. We did a paintball thing one day.
And I basically got the right to just, you know, whoever could outlast me shooting them in the office, shooting them in the head, the chest. They, you know, they had protection on.
Whoever could take the most got the job.
So was that dude just like the golf cart at the range?
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. He was their fucking target dude it was hilarious tv we would drag people we brought them to the water we brought them to the to the ocean
and we drag them behind a boat and is this like Mr. Beast
challenge or something?
this is 10 or 12 years ago
so nobody would pick it up
you couldn't get away with this now
not in 2026
not in 2026, games go on
check it out, it's Grant Cardone
and whatever it does
I was going to slap on Game of Thrones
but I will not be doing that anymore
I'm watching this instead.
Dude, that's like pre-UBI, bro. Before UBI becomes a thing, it's like if you want an affordable house or an apartment or whatever, you have to survive this challenge.
Or else you'll use Peloton bikes to make your salary to power up these AI data centers.
on bikes to make your salary to power up these AI data centers you know like that black that black
mirror episode you know where I think that's actually like a pretty dark conspiracy theory
right like people that are so into fitness at some point they'll just use all that power to
to go on these bikes the power these data centers. It's pretty terrifying. Honestly, man
same thing with the pump fun episode from
From black mirror people like you who skip cardio and leg day are never gonna make it. Yeah
Wow, but you definitely skip cardio brother. Yeah
Let's not start with this Italian brain rot stuff, right? I'm not I don't know this cardio
brain rot stuff right i'm not i don't know this cardio papalini tortellini whatever this is bro
but i'll have you know dude i'll have you know i can actually do 20 minutes on the stairmaster
without dying um of course i do lean and all that stuff i do i do i am a technician of sorts
and i alternate between levels two and three uh yeah you you you sound
like you yeah you wouldn't last a second in grant's office bro bro my my cool down is like level five
Yeah, look look look look look and I also use the treadmill
yeah look look look look look and i also use the treadmill
Dude I literally just used level 10
Hey, hey Grant, I have a question
Do you have like a fitness test to get the job?
Oh boy
Are there some of your vascular requirements that need to be met?
Yeah, there should be
Look, look, look, look, just throw me on a bench with 315
No, no, imagine you're trying to close a deal
Sorry, I'm out of breath
Sorry, the walk up this hill was too much for me. Sorry. I just I can't close right now. Give me a second
I need to catch my breath. Well, do I do I sound out of breath when I a little bit a little bit?
Yeah, exactly. Sorry, there's no golf cart. I'm not playing you've gotta be kidding me, bro
Do I stop do I and puff when i speak
oh man you sound a little out of breath you sound a little bit out of breath
dude it's fucking over for me you wouldn't last a second that car don't capital to have for free
mate probably not man but if we play raid the darkness prometheus can tell you man
and uh i have never ever ever participated in such activities that would tarnish my name and reputation.
That is what we call slander, and I will see you in the court of law, brother.
Raid the darkness, man.
That, my friends, is the ultimate witness test.
Now, imagine Raid the Darkness in the Cardone office.
We should do that.
That would be, I mean, instant viral sensation.
Yeah, I might.
I'm tempted to clip this space and just put it in my job resumes when I'm applying.
I mean, that's basically what my resume is, bro.
Yeah, me and Grant just kicking it.
Quite, quite.
How long do you think David Levinson would last in my offices?
I'd go under five minutes. reckon david comes in with a big
speech he starts shouting everybody and he just gets the paper guns get taken out and he just
gets absolutely no i i wouldn't say david okay rather than sell me a glass of water which what
by the way we did this everybody went through this sell me a glass of water in a minute like
it is so hard to do i'm gonna be in miami from march 9 to 12 i'm gonna be in miami
and when you come down here you're gonna have to sell me a glass of water bro
what part of miami are you in the north north i'll be in north miami i'm staying in north
miami see it's easy
hey chat GPT some me a glass of water make it sound as I'll sell you a glass
of water and you'll take me to my favorite restaurant down there when I
sell you the glass of water as my company hey Grant can you sell me a
glass of water please tell me let's see how good you are David as a salesperson
because the salesperson could take any side of an argument.
Okay.
Okay.
Tell me on why Bitcoin will go to $125,000 by the end of the year.
I can assure you, Grant, if we could just get Jerome Powell to reverse course.
He'll be out in May if he reverses course and he gives us 25 basis points at each of the next two meetings and they stop rolling
off mortgages the dollar goes to 90 and Bitcoin goes to 150 it's done so all we have to do is work on powell okay well dude why don't you say that when you
do all this ten thousand dollar night because there's no chance in the world that those things
are going to happen and when you're selling something you're talking about dude uh uh uh
a drum's gone trump's going to get lower interest rates it's not clear trump will make sure make
sure that he's going to get marked that it's easier to buy a house than it is to get a fucking wiener dog and a hamburger.
Which is the fastest way to get mortgage rates down?
Because we did get them down, didn't we, Grant?
We got them down a lot.
And they're going to go a lot more.
And they're going to keep coming down.
That's right.
The fastest way to do it is to not cut.
The single fastest way to do it is to not cut. The single fastest way to do it is to not cut.
We lost
192 basis points in less than 11
months when they didn't cut
October of... You're saying when
they don't cut... When they do not cut,
long-term rates will collapse.
It's the cut
that flooded the market
with duration. See, the reverse Silicon Valley bank effect is when Powell...
But when the Fed cuts, they're cutting a short-term rate.
Yeah, and what that does is it lengthens the average life
of the assets held by banks, insurance companies, and pensions. So they don't need to buy
anything with all the new money coming in from the life policies and the new retirees. They don't
need to buy anything. They go on a buyer strike. If, however, they do not cut and the money flows
from tech into mortgages... So when Trump's saying, I need the Fed to cut, I need the Fed to cut, he doesn't know what
he's talking about. I'm not sure he's not trying to make
sure that they don't cut to stick it to him
because he's getting what he wants. He's
got a four-year low mortgage rate
sitting on the Wall Street Journal's
front page. They just advertise
it, and they hate his guts.
You just don't cut.
If you don't cut, mortgage
rates will be at 4% before the election.
If they cut, it slows it down.
Because there's only a certain amount of money
that the system is generating in any one month.
And it can buy short paper or long paper.
If you make the short paper longer
by lowering the interest rate
that people earn on it,
you'll
make people want to buy it because the
total return on short paper
when it's going up in price is very compelling.
If they don't
cut, the money goes into the long
end. It flattens the curve.
The banks don't lend as much.
It causes the system to slow down just a
smidge and then you get it and all the money goes to the long end of the curve and we flatten and
that's what we're seeing the entire curve around the world is flattening right now the uk had a
new low in the 10 year germany's at a four-month low and's... Let's not talk about the UK please, thank you very much. Okay.
German rates, they're getting
ready to break down. What did you say
Pollo? Pollo Loco.
Let's not talk about
the UK please, thank you very much.
Except the reality is
when mortgages refinance and
they get scraped off the balance
sheets of regional banks, we just
had another bank announce they're exiting the mortgage business
because they can't compete with the rockets of this world.
So you're going to lose the leverage that the dollar earned by an investor
in a mortgage at a bank has.
They make a dollar, they make $10 worth of loans.
You take that mortgage off of them, you send it to a pensioner insurance company, you're losing
nine turns of money supply.
And that's dollar strength.
And that's going to kill oil,
it's going to kill gold, it's going to kill
inflation, and an ocean of money is
going into treasuries.
Well, let me
tell you something, David.
There's a lot of background noise.
There is.
It's not me. There's a lot of background noise. There is.
It's not me.
There is a lot of background noise.
Let me tell you something.
Action is the middle finger to depression.
Why has Matt once said that?
I don't know what that means.
We need to start seeing some more action.
We need to start seeing some more rate cuts to get Bitcoin out of this depression.
Yeah, but that's what would happen.
You're completely right.
If you got more rate cuts, you weaken the dollar, Bitcoin squeezes and runs over everybody because no one's expecting it.
You know what we should do, man?
There should be like Survivor.
You guys ever seen the show Survivor?
And you just put CZ
you put Tom Lee
Michael Saylor
in an island
and whoever
wins gets like
10 billion dollars from
Mr. Beast and Trump
and then we'll see like
how prices react. Now Microsoft is down one and a half after
hours that's right one and a half percent yeah i actually dude i actually i actually think um
i actually think uh michael saylor would win dude you know i understand some people think
cz would you know pull something out of his sleeve or something like that but I think sailor would win and survivor
You know, there's a reason why he tweeted out that picture with him on the life
That was impeccable by the way
What kind of CEO does that CZ framework sailor respectfully you think so I know so did you not see prison CZ oh
He was getting it in he said he he said he wishes he could have spent longer in there he was getting it
In prison don't worry about it
Yeah, in prison for me
Don't be judging don't be judging prison wives. Yeah, what happens in prison stays in prison Prometheus don't be judging don't be judging prison lives
yeah Dave what happens in prison stays in prison
I'm not judging him he was getting it in
you gotta survive buddy you gotta survive
you don't want your teeth bashed in
David knows
I actually haven't been in prison but I've seen movies
exactly that's what I meant by
David knows
Duolingo Duolingo is down double digits 2272 what I meant by David knows. Bro.
Duolingo is down double digits.
22.72.
And I don't know why Block is up like 40%.
That's the cash app
company, Block. Ticker XYZ.
It's up like 40%, but that stock
hasn't done anything in five years.
But, yeah, we saw
CZ getting it in with those push-ups,
and they were so shitty that his boys decided to just ruin the market.
King Rob, are you able to do push-ups?
I am, dude.
I can bench 315 for, like, 20 reps.
Okay, can I ask?
That was not the question.
That was not the question.
Yes, I've got 22-inch arms.
You think I can't do push-ups?
Can you do a pull-up? Yes, I've got 22-inch arms. You think I can't do push-ups? Can you do a pull-up?
Yes, I can.
Can you do a
Michelin? Can someone
tell us why Microsoft
is down? I just got home.
Why it's down one and a half?
Because you fudded them, David.
No, Gates admitted to the
Russian prostitutes.
No, that was yesterday's news.
That was yesterday.
Can I just say,
do you know what is so funny to me?
Obviously being a complete meme coin degenerate,
it's like, can someone explain to me
why this is down 1.3%?
Meanwhile, my little low-cap shitter
is down like 90% in the last week.
I don't know, bro.
Why are you involved in that toxic waste
if you have a good mind?
Live a little, David.
Live a little.
No, that's actually dying.
You're getting close to your coffin when you do that stuff.
Have a bigger life with more money.
I'm life-maxing, David.
I'm life-maxing right now.
Pollo and Prez are from a different algorithm.
You'll be working harder to make less.
Anyway, could someone...
Don't act like you're not part of our algorithm there, big man.
Like, how many...
I am a big man.
David absolutely is.
He's increasing low beta leverage, right?
I was talking to Bobby, but yeah, it's David too.
Hang on, hang on.
Does someone know why Microsoft is down?
There's only... There's only one big man and his name... Hang on, hang on. Does someone know why Microsoft is down?
There's only one big man, and his name is RJ. It's King Wobby.
No, no, it's RJ.
I'm not sure where he is, man.
And he's half the size of King Wobby.
He's probably here in the anonymous listeners, bro.
Let me check the anonymous listener account
to see if he's let's see if he's in there and i've out of all the tools on the internet bro like
the anonymous listeners sure is uh sure is something else before it wasn't like that before like if you wanted to tune into a space you were able to see everyone man um
everyone does spaces now dude i remember when there was only like
three crypto spaces uh four years ago three years ago now it's like
there's a constant 24 7 stream of them honestly listening anonymously really is not listening
anonymously then yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah but it's like why are you scared to to show your face man i guess but
i understand it evan what do you think bro we haven't heard from you
uh yeah i mean discuss come on yeah what am i yeah i think that you know it's it's a little
bit more bearish today i think you know based know, based on, I mean, I think the odds are, like, really close.
Dude, have you been to Brickle lately, Evan, bro?
It's like everyone's fucking streams now.
Really?
Like IRL streams, you mean?
Yeah, dude.
That's like after 7 p.m., 8 p.m., it's like that little corner in front of Moxie's is just packed filled with people with their stupid cameras and camera crews.
It's not walkable.
It's not walkable anymore, dude.
I'm moving back in the Brickell for at least a little bit in July.
Back into my condo there.
But yeah.
I don't use them.
It's annoying, man.
Go ahead.
I don't use them. What was that, David? I don't use them. It was annoying, man. Go ahead. I don't use them.
What was that, David?
I don't use them.
That's from Rocky.
When someone wanted him to sell him a condominium, and he says, I don't use them.
Condominium, condomy.
He's not that smart, Rocky.
Did you ever see Rocky Balboa?
Oh, I got you.
Grunt.
When someone says condominium, you're supposed to say I don't use them.
Let me just tell you something real quick about Bitcoin.
Dude, that's like every Sylvester Stallone movie.
It's like they say a bunch of bad things about them, and then Stallone is like, oh, yeah, you too.
They can say, like, you're a loser.
You're not going to get anywhere.
You're going to lose. You're not going to get anywhere. You're going to lose.
You're such a piece of crap.
And he's like, oh, yeah?
Well, you too.
Nobody told me that Grant had an equally handsome brother slash potentially twin.
Gary and Grant?
I didn't realize.
It's like Ethereum mainnet and base, dude.
Wow. You know? This is groundbreaking. I didn't realize it's like a theory of main net and base dude Wow
This is groundbreaking is it isn't gronny older
I'm older I'm a senior
Come on's authority
Yeah, I just want to say Bitcoin I mean it's in between right now i still think you got a shot of
like 74k i still think like you got a decent shot you're kind of jumping a little bit what are we at
point of control right now you know 67 potentially jumping upward into the next week you know into
the beginning of march i think march is probably gonna be red though i think everything's gonna
kind of roll over in march i think s S&P 500 is going to continue down.
NASDAQ probably going to continue down.
Everything looks like kind of reject-y, you know what I mean?
Rejecting from the point for the NASDAQ.
I mean, it could recover a little bit.
I think as rates go down, like your 10-year, which looks as bearish as possible at the moment, as that continues down, I think, you know, SPY, S&P 500 will likely follow that.
that continues down, I think, you know, SPY, S&P 500 would likely follow that. I do think the
bottom for a lot of things probably would be around June, if I had to guess with the new kind of
Fed chair, you know, that would kind of like go off of what you guys were talking about with
potentially when you cut rates. I mean, it doesn't exactly have to be there. You know, sometimes
people get excited about rates and then you have to wait a little bit longer. So it could be
extended. I think it'll be a milder version of 2022 like especially with trump in office like i could see a bitcoin
bottom you know may you know even earlier it could be even why is it less than 22 why
because you got you got the lion in office you got donald j trump in office that's why what does
that have to do with anything he's a a real economy guy. He's not a financial
eyes of finagler.
He wants housing. He wants
jobs. He wants labor intensity.
He doesn't want to scratch handicap.
What?
He also wants to scratch handicap.
He may have one.
Hey, did you know, and Prometheus can
vouch for this, um,
within like... don't even
Dude, you you know it dude within two months. I became a four handicap. Don't eat. Oh my god
He is he spread this nonsense to you guys as well
He claims he claims he's picked up a club once and suddenly becomes a four hand
He claims he's picked up a club once and suddenly becomes a four handicap.
Yeah, he started golfing in March and by September I was a four.
Yeah, they don't call him Tiger Woods.
After that statement, I think you've made your handicap very clear.
And it's not to do with golf, my friend.
Yeah, it's leg day.
It actually is, dude.
It actually is.
Bobby, do you know how good that is?
That's insane.
Yeah, exactly.
What golf course? What golf course, Bobby?
Well, anyways, we have Gary up on the stage.
Gary, what's up?
You know, X is now expanded.
When I want to listen to people tell me about every perfect trade they've ever done
and every momentum movement they picked, I can now also access golf experts on it. David, your mic's
open. This is awesome.
Golf, Bitcoin,
finance. Netflix
canceled the bid.
They're up to
David, how dare you fucking talk over my brother?
Breaking
news breaks up every conversation.
I just dropped in for that.
I respect you.
I respect your brother.
You want news.
Netflix is over 90.
You could have waited.
You could have waited, like, let my brother finish.
How dare you?
Breaking news kind of indicates that it's, you know, unusual.
Not every 12 seconds.
After hours, you know, 12%.
That's not nothing.
$90.
It was just $75.
David, you're getting brother-moked by Grunt and Guy right now.
I feel it's tag team from the old...
David, were you long Netflix?
I take it you were, huh?
No, I'm not long any of that stuff.
Yeah, no, I was just kidding you, dude.
No, but you guys, I would be afraid to get tag-teamed by you guys.
I would totally get smashed.
Dude, and Ray the Darkness, me and Tucker as a tag-team,
Prometheus, you know nobody stands a chance, man.
Yeah, I mean, that's like two wild gorillas with rabies coming into a donut shop
ready to just destroy all the raspberry cream pie-filled donuts.
Exactly, dude.
That's what that is.
Exactly, dude.
I'm not sure if anyone has ever met, like, a seven-foot-tall person before,
but our CFO, his name is Big Haggard.
He's seven feet tall and weighs 450 pounds.
He's like the Big Show but with blonde hair, believe it or not.
He's a beast.
He's an absolute beast.
But anyways, Gary, what's going on, man?
You were saying something.
Yeah, just came here for golf tips, buddy.
I hear you're a scratch golfer with three games.
I think that's Evan. Evan, sorry three games. I think that's Evan.
Evan, sorry, Evan.
Yeah, that's right.
No, it was Wabi.
I've been playing golf since I was six years old,
and I'm not nearly as good as what Wabi claims.
That's all I'm going to say.
Claims is the operative word there, my friend.
Yeah.
Large bet on claims.
Yeah, there's no way your hips also don't have the motion, Wabi.
You're far too large. There's no way your hips also don't have the motion wobbly. You're far too large
There's no way you even your your swing must be absolutely horrible. There's no way you're shifting that weight for the ball correctly
Not with the wobbly legs
Exactly King wabi King wobbly. That's what they call me. Of course King wobbly that accent is that present's from where? Is that a British accent?
No, that's Pollo.
Are you referring to me, Gary?
Yes, yes I am, dear boy.
Is that a British accent? Yes I am, dear lad.
My son, are you just...
Indeed it is, Gary. You would be correct in assuming that.
Have you had diarrhea for the last month with the news?
Pardon?
Have you had diarrhea for the last month just
perpetual no I have a steady stash of Imodium at my bedside yeah I don't worry about me every
British man should have right now some Imodium that's over-the-counter in fact in Britain I
think it is indeed how bad is it okay like like is that a problem down the uh no i mean what what about the queen dying the queen passing
sorry you're referring to you're still stuck on that one huh okay
what are you uh what are you what are you referring to right now
you brits we're gonna have to ask you i'm gonna have to ask you to be a little bit
more specific here gary well dude i mean it's not like the royal family has
had a lot
of great news this week on their credibility their history i mean the shit that's coming out is just
wait is this an epstein thing like it's not great yeah the royal family it's not good so essentially
lizzie was the last of like the royal family who everybody actually liked like unanimously
the older generation my grandma my grandpa whatever all very fond of her and the rest of them are just wrong ones no one's a fan of them so my day-to-day life doesn't affect me in the
slightest not the family do you still live in Britain I do I'm at university in my family
year well I'm planning on leaving
after university.
It's actually really sad seeing what's happened
to the UK over the past
maybe
10-15 years of my life
just watching it slowly get worse and worse.
I'm not going to get into specifics.
Exactly.
But yeah, I'm planning on leaving
elsewhere. Hey, that's really crazy though.
So you're like 20-ish i'm 22 yeah i lived in england for 14 years dude where you're able
to say well central london and then i moved way out to hampshire but the point is i was there
between 92 and 02 and then 16 and 20 and the difference and i think for the audience that that's one generation
dude okay the difference in london today and 15 years ago is staggeringly different and you were
only you know seven years old man it i wouldn't yeah it's like birmingham now yeah yeah it's yeah
i'm not planning on staying.
It doesn't make sense
at this point in time.
You've got to move the ATP headquarters down here to Miami, bro.
Well, Pingu and RJ are off to Dubai soon.
I don't see myself living there, but...
Yeah, Dubai is...
Miami?
I don't know, bro.
I'm not sure I'm in that
tax bracket yet, but one day
I do like Miami a lot.
Believe it or not dude, Brickle
rent prices are correcting
a little bit compared to how they were in
2024, at least from what I've seen.
We'll see.
We'll see. I'll assess some options
post-uni. We'll see
who's offering me the
cheddar we'll see if i end up in a in a room getting pelted with a paintball guns and see
how i fare well it's niche but a couple people know what i'm about hard pivot and go to zimbabwe
no i'm not sure i'm a zimbabwe kind of man dude if you go on air... Card being the operative word. If you go on Airbnb and you search up some of these places,
there are actual Airbnbs in some of these places for like $3, $5 a night.
And it's like a concrete bed with like a well.
Yeah, I'm not sure that's me.
Hey, Grant.
Write those pictures all a man needs.
Grant, let's go Airbnb for $10 a day, Grant. I like those pictures all a man needs. Grant, let's go Airbnb
for $10 a day, dude.
Let's triple
their budget and go.
Let's hit it.
Airbnb, anyone?
They're going to CTO
Zimbabwe, man.
Zimbabwe ain't
safe to go to, I would assume, right like I don't think it is yeah, but angel
Have a question did you could absolutely go to Zimbabwe with no issues?
Yeah, you can also you can also go to you can also go to Overtown and Liberty City down here in Miami
Can't you have you guys don't need to leave this country to find affordable housing.
Go to Flint, Michigan.
You can buy a house there for $28,000.
Yeah, but it would need $100,000.
No, no, uh-uh.
Yeah, Flint's way more dangerous than Mimbabwe.
Oh, I need some real estate advice.
If only there was someone who knows a bit about real estate in here.
Yeah, you need some iodine to do with the radiation.
Yeah, I actually do have some real estate advice, man.
Oklahoma.
That's true.
Hell no.
Yeah, Oklahoma and Kansas City, when in reality, they should just all be a part of Texas.
Oklahoma makes no sense. Kansas City, Kansas oklahoma makes no sense kansas city kansas in
general makes no sense dude this should all just be called texas it's all the same stuff it's the
same thing what state is between what hey dude i can guarantee you dude every person on this
on this panel right now cannot list all 50 states in a row without looking at, without looking at
like, a map or something like that.
Grant, you know?
But you have to pay for bottled water
every single day, and you have to bathe in it
too. Other than that, it's great.
Oh, it's like Bali then.
It's not
as hot. Dude, every time
I hear about a crypto bro going to Bali,
someone gets sick. Same thing with Singapore, bro.
No, I went to both and didn't get sick, actually.
No, no.
Singapore, Bobby, Singapore is completely different than Bali.
It's a complete...
Dude, Soap had almost died.
He went to Singapore and he almost died.
Singapore's a very affluent place, though.
I don't know.
From food?
No, like someone's breath or something.
What?
Someone's breath.
What?
Someone's hygiene was just so bad.
I think he went to a conference or something,
and his hygiene was just so bad that he got sick.
You know?
Okay.
Well, I mean, in reality, Bali is probably the worst for food poisoning.
You've got to be careful.
I didn't enjoy having to ask, has this been washed with milk?
Have you been to Bombay?
No, but that's not one place that's even worse.
Probably not on my list of places to go to. waste probably no no no i mean we're getting invaded currently in the
midwest so i i get enough of that every day now believe it or not like if you went to mumbai you
would just go to like billionaires row and it would be you'd be fine it depends where you go
from what i've heard i mean there's parts of india that are rich as hell in the mountains
that's actually like i've talked to people that went to India for a month and didn't get sick.
And they went to Bali and got sick. So it depends where you go.
Well, people like people see India is I mean, also negative connotations with poverty and stuff like that.
People forget how wealthy they're rich are.
Like it's one of the largest economies in the world.
There's billionaires everywhere.
There's just such a stark difference between the uber uber rich there and the poor yeah it's it's one of those countries
with a terrible genie coefficient yeah um philippines is like that too it's like those
countries just have a terrible but it's it's gotten better like people don't realize india
compared to what it was 20 years ago. It's really...
I mean, rising Asia is nuts.
Do you know what I was sad to hear?
I went to San Francisco.
God, I must have been maybe six years old.
So that was 16 years ago.
And I only had fond memories of it.
Apparently now it's not the same as it was.
It might be like a little London part two.
Can you Americans confirm this?
It's improved ever since Lurie takeover, the heir to the Levi fortune.
It's much better.
You don't have roving cesspools of human filth from drug use all over the place.
It's only localized.
Anytime I hear Levi, I keep thinking about
Attack on Titan.
Always.
Hey, Prometheus, have you conned the new
season of Jujutsu Kaisen, by the way?
Yeah, I watched
a few of the episodes.
Don't spoil it for me, please.
Next time you go to San Francisco,
you gotta download the Poop Tracker app
and you can see
live updates on the feed
of people that have taken shits in the street.
Well, this is the thing.
So it's on my bucket list.
Like a road trip and a big truck
with horns on it with some friends
all around the US at some point in my life.
I don't know. San Francisco probably would have
been on my list, but I'm not sure anymore.
Maybe I go to
that, what was that weird place
Grant recommended I buy a house in?
Flint, Michigan.
Flint.
I might stop off there, but like, buy a house.
Like, this is for you, Grant. Send him a picture.
Boys bought this house.
Yeah, try the Icy's there. They is for you, Grant. Send him a picture. Boys bought this house. Try the Icy's
there. They got great Icy's.
Actually, I want to go
to Texas for the barbecue.
I'm a big barbecue
enjoyer. Gentlemen
and ladies, I'm having dinner.
Have a nice
space.
The entire region
of the U.S., Kansas, Alabama,
Arkansas, it should all just be Texas.
Kansas is like 600 miles away from Alabama.
You guys must be losing a shitload of money right now.
Is everybody losing money today?
What are we talking about?
I know, huh?
I feel like I'm in a hair salon with women.
Losing money.
Gary, your headline is not that bad
I'll have you know my meme coins up
40% right now baby
Evan talk about the market
man we need to I need to hear somebody
let me walk back to oh damn it
in front of the screen but yeah no the market
I mean I think there's still a decent shot
if you can kind of hold the POC right here put in control that you could still come up to 73 74k but if you kind of sit there buddy 72
gets so like a i think man yeah that's what i'm kind of starting to think too it's you know you
got some decent candles you know what my indicator is it's how how much art Gary's creating at the minute.
Whenever Bitcoin's absolutely running rampant, I don't see as much art on his feed.
And I'm looking at that right now, and it just seems like he's all in on art.
No, I think you're...
See, now here's a man who is smart, but he's putting a correlation together and saying it's related.
I think there might be a correlation, but i don't think they're very related um maybe maybe i'm just doing more art because i'm doing more art
get them creative juices floating i will i got a serious question uh Yeah, go ahead there, diggity dog. Dude, I'm researching.
First off, do you want to go with me to a third world nation and Airbnb at $10 a day?
Can you wait to do that with me?
Yeah, I can't wait.
No, you can't wait.
Yes, you can't wait.
You can't wait. Larry Ellison just moved to Miami.
Larry Ellison just moved to Miami.
In the last six weeks, you got Larry,
Ken Griffin, both Google boys, Zuckerberg,
Amazon, Jeff Bezos. All their executives are coming with them, by the way,
because you know those guys. For sure, bro. They all get close to the power.
100%. They're going to dick ride all the way to the end.
And, I i mean you're
talking about almost a trillion dollars has come to this city grant do you this is one city this
is not the state by the way but that's not what i wanted to ask i want to ask this question why is
there no tokenized real real estate projects no successfully and scaled i know i know there's a one-off everybody
goes back all the aspen deal fuck it was nothing it was like two million dollars or something it
was 18 of the project why is there no large tokenized real estate assets anywhere on plan
grant you've been asking this question the last two years
i've been asking for two years
but but i'm asking it to do
what would be the benefit of tokenization grant well whether whether it's a secondary market you
create like like i would like to use the token to create a secondary market for my
current investors.
So it would provide them with liquidity and collateral.
But you mean you're not going to sign papers to transfer the ownership?
Say that again.
You're not going to sign papers to transfer ownership, deeds. You're not going to sign papers to transfer ownership deeds you're not going to sign papers
for that we're not going to be enforced in the real world no they they don't know the the the
basically when i do a project right it's an llc that wraps this asset and they have interest as
members in the asset they don't have a deed to the property each person doesn't have a deed to
the property the tokens would provide liquidity and collateral for our existing investors and
allow the rest of the world market to make offers on their shares. So my average investor is putting
500 grand in. 500 grand is not achievable for 99, you know, 99.5% of the population.
not achievable for 99, you know, 99 and a half percent of the population.
How do you buy a portion of somebody's apartment?
They're not buying the apartment.
They're buying the membership interest.
You could do that with shares.
You don't need tokenization.
I can't do it with shares the way, because the shares have already been distributed.
So I can't then, I can't then fractionalize the shares have already been distributed. So I can't then
fractionalize the shares.
You can fractionalize the shares
the same way you can use the tokens.
I mean, they're fractionalized shares
of stocks now.
These aren't publicly traded shares.
This is a private... No, no, I understand. But the issue isn't the tokenization. This is a private...
No, no, I understand.
But the issue isn't the tokenization.
There are other issues.
The tokenization is not the issue.
Right?
Okay, so tell me what the issue is.
Well, I'm not a real estate guy.
The issue is fungibility and liquidity, bro.
You'll never control them.
All the things you need to do to transfer ownership would be required, whether it's a token or whether it's anything else.
The token doesn't change anything in the real world.
It doesn't do anything.
The token doesn't do anything.
So you're saying tokens are not going to...
It doesn't really do anything different than a piece of paper that's digital.
Exactly.
It's the same thing.
And you're already there.
But Grant, the real issue is the reason none of these projects have gone along is they overpromised ridiculously.
They have not performed because there's no added value.
None.
You're trying to break up a cartel.
The people that are talking about tokenization are trying to break up the oligopoly of real estate, which is the inefficiency of all the middlemen.
Well, that takes time and effort and lobby.
The second thing is most of these properties are not very fungible, and none of them are liquid.
So, and then it brings, you do a token, you launch a thousand tokens in the market.
I buy half of them, and then you buy half of them.
Okay?
So that's our first deal.
Now, what happens when I decide to sell all mine? and then gary hang on a second gary and then i market i market that this institutional quality
asset 200 million dollar asset that has cash flow and bitcoin combined as a hybrid yeah is now
available in smaller fractions ten thousand dollar tokens and somebody could then bid you you know those some guys let's go let's go
and and and if you want to sell yours if you if you want to sell yours you could or you could go
to grant grant don't get all caught up in how cool it is and what it does what i'm asking you
is this is why every one of these projects have failed. Okay. You own 50 units.
I own 50 units.
you don't own 50 units.
That's the misunderstanding here.
You own shares in an LLC.
Yeah.
The LLC owns all the units,
the deed,
the property,
the obligations.
Cool.
I understand the liabilities.
Now you do the tokens. Who owns the tokens?
Well, you and I would split the tokens. Let's say there's 200 million tokens.
Good. Okay. So I have a hundred, you have a hundred. What happens on day one when they go live? How do we get the, so we're holding all this real estate. Yeah. That's been the problem
to me with the tokens is that nobody has a retail audience to actually market to.
What are you guys talking about with the tokens, a thousand tokens?
I don't understand this.
Seeing a token supply of a thousand each.
Well, we were saying that.
So it's a liquidity issue.
You're never going to be able to control the liquidity, okay?
And you have to ask the question, hey, what is the benefit of this?
Because a guy in Singapore, a kid in Cincinnati that only has $10,000 now gets access to say, hey, I want to put $10,000.
I believe in that project Grant's doing.
But he didn't qualify to do that when we put it together.
Yeah.
Guys, you know how like i i've i've so you're just trying to access the unregulated token market
not unregulated but it's looser than the security oh it's still very regulated though
yeah yeah yeah i agree yeah it just gives access to people that can't. Your problem will be, though, how do you control liquidity?
So I'm sure you can market it.
I mean, there's companies that have spent a lot more money than you will spend on marketing a coin, dude.
Well, yeah, but I have an audience that I can market to.
Yeah, I know you do.
So when the Aspen, the RISC deal in the Aspen, where arepen the risks deal in the Aspen where they gonna market it
They're not gonna market it. They're gonna market their room
That's right. They're not gonna market to the marketplace. Okay, a Goldman Sachs is gonna try to set it up through all their
You know the fidelity's of the world etc. But they're not gonna market directly to to mainstream
Planet Earth the institutions do not have a retail audience i i had a group in my office
two days ago they're like none of us know how to talk to retail investors we want to but we don't
know how to talk to them i'm like yeah fuck because you have never talked to them instead
you go get a pension fund to write you one check they need they need to hop in these spaces god damn it but
yeah they don't know what to talk about these spaces i mean the last 15 minutes you'd have
lost them a lot of problems not enough solutions am i right well no i'm i'm trying to bring i'm
trying to build the vehicle to bring it to the marketplace i'm doing a lot of research every
day to figure out okay why has no one done these projects?
And it might be to Tina's point.
It doesn't solve a problem, maybe.
It's a gimmick, dude.
It's not solving a problem.
You have to really think about, hey, is it solving a problem, and is it bringing in some kind of convenience?
Because really…
Right.
I know.
An iPhone is a gimmick. No, it's a tool. bringing in some kind of convenience because really right I know an iPhone
iPhone is a gimmick no it's a tool yeah but it's a tool full of gimmick I don't
need 17 different fucking versions of it well the art of innovation wrong with
that's what I'm saying but it did oh I want it it's cool it looks good you know
it's a gimmick it's a bit of a gimmick well i have a i have a question i know absolutely
zero about real estate right absolutely zero do you live do you live where do you live
do i do i lift no do you you live in a piece of real estate or you live on the streets
i i do indeed live in a piece of so you know a lot about real estate
I do indeed live in a piece of real estate.
So you know a lot about real estate.
Okay, let's just say in this example,
I don't know about how real estate transactions work
in terms of owning the properties and this, that, the other,
and signing contracts and this, that, the other.
So let's say, does crypto eliminate a middleman in this?
And it just means me on my phone
could theoretically place down 10 grand
and then yes and then the benefit of that is you would get one 200th millionth of that property
hey hey can i and i can't i cannot break that i cannot financially back to to what Tina was saying, I cannot financially break down units into those tiny portions.
And the onboarding of accredited and non-accredited investors is, look, I've raised $2 billion like this with accredited and non-accredited investors.
We've done a great job without going to institutions of democratizing institutional assets.
We've probably done more than any other group in the world. I don't know anybody that's done more. Maybe Fundrise, maybe, but they weren't
talking to the individual investor and they were buying garbage assets. My point is
to bring on, you know, we have 20,000. To bring on 2 million is like without a faster
thousand to bring on two million is like without a faster uh fractionalized that that's what i
thought the blockchain was supposed to be able to do and i think it will do it at some point and
that's why i'm bringing up this token things why has that part not been figured out so you you
could you could do this as long as it's regulatory permissible, there are these various pre-IPO marketplaces,
Equity Zen, Forge Global, Hive,
and there's no reason why you couldn't trade those there.
But they are, they would be,
what would be a market cap of one of the buildings?
Because you usually buy by building, correct?
What would the market cap be?
Let's say $300 million.
Okay, that's a very small market cap in today's world.
It's very, very small.
And if you see, if you trade around in really small stocks in the stock market, those are very low liquidity stocks as a general rule.
$300 million is not much.
So you've got big IPOs that are trading like Anthropic,
but that's in the tens and hundreds of billions.
And there are places to buy those things.
So you could do it.
The tokenization per se isn't solving anything
because you'd still, whether you had it on one of those exchanges or you had it tokenized, you might even kill liquidity.
So I think it solves sort of expanding the amount of investors that are possible.
Not really.
Not really because a lot of it's also dependent on the laws that are applicable to buying in those venues.
Correct.
You have to have a legal framework to enable people to buy.
Correct. And that's where I was going to go next, because I was going to say, like, if I was a retail investor and I was not living in the U.S., I would ask the question, what sort of recourse do I have if, let's say, for example, I wanted to cash out or something like that?
I said, hey, you know what?
I invested it initially.
But at this point, if it went up or went down, what happens when I say I went out of this investment?
Do I sell it to another investor or do I sell it back to the LLC?
Things like that has to be kind of talked about sell it back to the LLC and how, you know, things like that
has to be kind of talked about because you want to attract retail investors, they are going to
need to feel comfortable whether this is legitimate or not before they put any money into it.
I get the token idea, Grant, and that kind of makes sense because it's easier to say, hey,
here's a way we're going to split all the shares of this company.
And the company is, let's say, worth a billion dollars due to all the assets and properties it has.
Okay, now out of that billion dollars, here's how many tokens we're going to split this up amongst.
And potentially in the future, this one million tokens, let's say 1 million tokens is worth 1 billion right now.
But then in the future, this 1 million tokens may be worth 2 billion because the LLC was able to grow, expand its properties.
And so as an investor, I'm going to say, okay, well, I get the token.
Let's say I invest and I buy the token, which supposedly gives me a portion of the shares of the company.
There's going to be so many questions that are going to be asked.
So like, for example, I'm going to say, what if someone stole or hacked my token?
And this is some guy. He has no name tied to this sort of contract or anything, but he holds the token.
He actually has sort of the private key sort of token.
How is that going to work out?
Do they get to get a portion of the company?
Like, those are all...
Grant, I think none of those are really the real problems here.
The bigger problem is liquidity.
Gary touched on it.
And I think you'd have an easier time putting
together a bunch of those properties
and effectively creating a REIT out
of it to create...
If you have 10 properties at each $300
million market cap, you're just going
to have a lot of dead stocks.
I mean, I trade in a lot
of these little things. You can have
these small market cap stocks
that are very inactive.
You want to buy it or sell it, they can be…
Yeah, but it wouldn't really make sense to have, in my mind, for it to work from a market cap perspective.
You have a real world asset, like a house or a massive building, which has X amount of value.
We have REITs.
You know there are REITs in the market, right?
You know there are REITs.
Yeah, but it's probably going to defeat what he was like there's an arbitrage here between
the old world and the new world that's right that's right yeah that's what i'm trying to
trying to do yeah yeah and the reit market is 4.3 trillion dollars these guys will never trade in
this space that you're with that i'm suggesting that's the arbitrage that gary that's why you need to put them together because i still think you have a problem with the size of the assets that
you're trying and i'll tell you what i do agree with that grant i think you have to do remember
i said hey package them all up dude all 42 of them now you got a two billion dollar project that that
to me is well no no yeah yeah right whatever. Four billion or whatever. Whatever. But you got it. Because that is the game today.
Hundred million dollar IPOs ain't happening, bro.
Nobody's interested. It doesn't move the needle.
The game for big, big, big, big, big, big, big boys.
Even three billion is not a big market cap.
You know, this really exactly. But this really shows you, you know, Grant, this was back to the comment of, hey, go pay your dues.
Remember that comment?
Yeah, yeah.
See, this is a cartel, dude.
The game's rigged so that it pushes you into the public market.
Yeah, well, you want to tell them what you're referencing?
Well, no, just that, you know, we've both been told, hey, look, you know, just go pay
homage to Wall Street, do the, you know, suck it up, sign all the documents, let them get
their pound of flesh, and you'll fly like a kite.
Otherwise, it'll be difficult, is the is the message i mean that's not new it's real deal you just got to decide hey do you want to
do that i think you're going to find it's a lot of fucking headaches quite frankly
so if you're really trying to just achieve liquidity to me you just you wrap them and
you're still going to have a problem
with liquidity on the coin, though. I don't think you're going to, unless you're willing to backstop
it, which at some price you probably are. You are in a unique position that way.
And then what happens if there's no interest? What's a sample yield on one of those properties
that your investors are earning?
What's their effective yield?
6%, 5%, 9%?
What are they earning?
Grant?
Can you hear me?
I'm not going to speak for him because I don't know the numbers.
But the point is, you know, what happens if, you know, what happens if the price gets cut in half?
Yeah.
And then you're trying, and then you've, you know, you have. Well, then you don't have any liquidity, which is the very thing you wanted to accomplish for your shareholders in the first place.
So it's really clunky, very clunky.
It may work on a new project.
See, I think you have a brand new project, brand new money.
Could you tokenize that? You could tokenize the earnings, but you're not
like fracturing every apartment unit. All you're ever going to do is fracture the earnings,
which is basically already done. This is why it hasn't done anything, Grant. Because if it could
have done something, there's so much money that has been invested in tokenization of
real estate um somebody would have just said here here here's three houses man let's show some deals
that didn't even happen so because there's no value add
this is crypto's problem where is the value add
and then people are going to start asking hey where are the earnings
hey am i the only one uh is there silence here no i can hear you i can hear you
I can hear you.
I can hear you.
Hey, Grant, if I could jump in really quick.
Can you guys hear me?
Yeah, before you do, hey, Grant, did you like that little man I drew last night?
Oh, dude, that was magnificent.
Dude, I love that little guy, bro.
That was awesome.
awesome destroyed four paintings to do that fantastic i was just gonna say um i was a part
Destroyed four paintings to do that.
Fantastic.
of a uh like a web3 group that did something kind of like what you're talking about but with a
company and um they you know were trying to do everything on the up and up and had lawyers and
everything security token offering bro like this whole real estate token stuff like there have been people that have tried doing that through security token
offerings stos that was the thing back in 2018 2019 but didn't really work out not much interest
yeah i was just going to say that uh the the people seem you know they were docs they seem
trustworthy they did a lot of legwork on, you know, figuring out the compliance and everything.
And so if he'd be interested in, you know, picking their brains, I could DM you a contract.
I appreciate that.
That's why I brought this up.
So, you know, the fact that nobody's figured it out doesn't mean it won't be figured out.
And all those guys in the past were early.
We were with a different administration.
And I'm not saying it can be done.
I'm saying somebody's going to figure out
how to do something around this space
where you combine something, you know.
I'm just trying to figure out how to democratize
these great assets that have traditionally been held
by the wealthiest of the wealthy and allow the everyday man to actually participate in a long-term value play that has real cash flow.
I agree.
And a real use.
And I would also, I mean, I think with you being the, you know, the kind of the face of it, the token issuer, there'd be a lot more trust than just some random company that pops out of nowhere and issuing tokens for shared real estate.
And to the guy that was talking about moving to San Francisco, I would plug San Diego.
I would move that to the top of your list if you're looking at California.
You know, San Diego just proposed a law today that if you don't live there more than 50% of the time,
your home will now be considered a vacation home and be taxed differently.
Ouch.
It sounds like they're doing what Florida does.
No, Florida doesn't do that.
Florida doesn't do that.
Well, the homestead.
If you rent it out, you got to pay more.
No, you can't homestead unless you make it as your primary residence.
That's what the law is.
But if you come from another state
and you're trying to not pay state income taxes
in your home state, like New York or New Jersey
or Connecticut or California,
you have to live in Florida
to be out of your home state
for more than, I think it's 300,
I forget the number, 186 days,
whatever the number is.
But more than...
Six months and one day.
Six months and one day.
So, Grant, there's a REIT BRT Apartments, which is, what's the market cap of this thing?
Yeah, I was looking at them yesterday.
Yeah.
Look at these smaller REITs that are out there.
Look at those things and try to understand
what the issues are with those
because you're going to have the same issues as they have,
whatever they are.
Personally, I think people can...
The people you're talking about could just...
A share of BRT is $14.82.
I mean, somebody could easily buy 50 or 100 shares of that.
They're not limited,
and they're real assets, and they pay you cash. So in my opinion, there's really no difference
there. There really isn't. Yeah, the problem with BRT or any REIT, there's 190 of them,
is they have to, because their tax structure that was developed 65 years ago,
is they have to, because they're a tax structure that was developed 65 years ago,
they have to distribute 90% of their currency,
and they can never own or hold Bitcoin.
You're still going to have regulatory issues.
Just because it's a token doesn't mean there are not going to be regulatory issues.
Well, I understand that.
There's always going to be a regulatory issue Well, if I'm not a REIT, I understand that. There's always going to
be a regulatory issue, and there should be. But the fact that they have to distribute all their
cash is not good for the property. That may be, but again, you're going to have to have...
I think he done you every which way in that, mate, in all honesty. You know, like, that was the problem 65 years ago.
It was a different system.
We're in the real system now, the truth system, where it can't be manipulated.
Of course it can be manipulated.
That's nonsense.
But you're going to have to have a legal structure that you can sell this stuff.
Because without a legal structure, you have nothing.
So the issue is not really with the tokens.
The issue is with the legal structure and regulatory structure.
I understand there has to be an illegal structure.
I would never do anything illegal.
I mean, I didn't get this far breaking the law.
I wasn't saying that you were, but the issue isn't the tokenization.
Because the REITs are effectively tokenized.
That's effectively a token.
It's already happening today, Tina. So there's already tokenized real estates and it's regulated and it's under the SEC. And you've got
to follow SEC framework. And Grant is going to be successful with this. Real estate is going to be
tokenized. And just how it works today is you're connecting people in real life and it's on paper.
All this is doing is tokenizing those transactions. So if Grant has someone come to him and he says,
Grant, I want to buy 50 mil in this project. Grant connects that with the token holder and
they do the transaction. You don't have to sell your tokens. Well, and most people won't.
Most people will be in the real estate
long periods of time,
seven and 10 years.
And most of the owners
will not sell their liquidity,
but it would provide liquidity
and collateral.
See, right now,
in a limited liability company,
you can't go borrow against your shares.
You know, and the token would allow, while it's not, look, the real estate asset's never going to be liquid, like Gary said.
But it would allow, the token could then become liquid.
It could be moved over to a sister.
Let's talk about, okay, on day one, you got a billion dollars worth of property paying out 8%.
What's the token value on day one?
Just walk through how that gets managed.
How do we set a price?
Well, it would be the market cap of that property at that time.
Okay.
And then, and then, and then.
So you're doing.
So let's say they're a dollar.
Six months. Okay. And then, so let's say they're a dollar.
What happens if there's a market change?
I mean, what if the tokenization?
With the Bitcoin hybrid, there would be.
So today those shares would be down.
So now are you going to sell?
I'm not selling.
I believe in the Bitcoin and the real estate combined.
But maybe there's somebody in the pool that needs liquidity that day and says, I'll sell.
Yeah.
And if the Bitcoin went up.
That's just secondary.
Now, I don't know.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I'm talking about the secondary market right now.
That's all I'm talking about.
You want to do a token to be able to do secondaries on real estate. Yeah.
Yes.
Yes.
Maybe I didn't explain that correctly.
And that's why I came into the room.
By the way, Grant, I know you're not going to like hearing this, but you do understand having the Bitcoin and the real estate together doesn't add anything.
I can own real estate.
I would, excuse me.
I know, I know.
I've heard you.
I've heard you.
But I'm telling you. I've heard you, but I'm telling you that... I would just suggest to you that there's...
On my last deal, there was $300 million raised,
where there's $300 million raised that would suggest to you that that's not true.
Well, I hear you, but I'm telling you...
It doesn't have value to you.
It doesn't have value to you.
I can put that together myself.
I don't need someone to put it together.
No, no, you can't put that together myself. I don't need someone to put it together. No, you can't put that together yourself.
The asset I bought, no offense, Tina, no offense, but you cannot buy that asset.
You can't.
But I can synthetically create it.
You can't.
First of all, you can't get the first part of the transaction done, which was the asset out of bankruptcy from Blackstone.
It's irreplaceable real estate. This is not a fucking house. There's a $230 million asset that was worth $350 million when we bought it and we bought it out of bankruptcy. That's the first
part. Then we added $100 million of Bitcoin. Hang on, hang on, hang on a second. Can you,
can you go buy the Bitcoin by yourself? 1000%. Could you, could you make the first purchase?
go buy the bitcoin by yourself 1000 could you could you make the first purchase no you couldn't
you couldn't make it then and you can't make it now because i own it and i understand that but i
but so and i let me let me just i don't think you'll know the whole story about the asset the
asset has a couple hundred million dollars upside when we condo them and then it's got the bitcoin
riding there that cash flows with the whole asset. So I have cash
flow. I passed on about $50 million of depreciation to my investors. We have positive cash flow,
and we have upside in the rents, as well as an exit of about $200 million on the condo. So when
the people are looking at that project, they're like, hey, this project, most of these people
are long-term holders. They want to see it all the way through while I have Bitcoin doing its thing up or down.
And the 1,500 investors that came in on that particular project do not, 1,200 of them own no Bitcoin.
They don't know how to buy Bitcoin.
I'm providing a service to them to where I'm mixing a hard asset with Bitcoin and providing them with cash
flow and a place where they can get a feel or taste or exposure to this volatile asset.
They can buy IBIT and they can buy your...
They can buy IBIT. They don't get the real estate.
No, no, forget IBIT.bit no ibit is too late they can't buy
bitcoin they ain't buying ibit mate if they can't buy bitcoin there's no chance they buy ibit yeah
they'll do what they told right but what what the problem that you're trying to solve here right
isn't because the solution is beautiful retail and and using sorry, your home, using your home as, or land as an investment
of Bitcoin through your vehicle is perfect. But it's still only probably 10% or 1% of
the market or 99.5% of the market. What you need, wait, wait, what you need, brother,
brother, brother. It is, it is. What you need,
what you need,
hang on, Greg, hang on,
what you, sorry, brother, sorry, right?
What you need is a vehicle,
another tangible vehicle that brings value
that is available for the masses
and you link that tokenization
from buying a test
that you can test for prostate cancer
in your home for $2.99.
Right now, listen.
And then you tie that tokenization into buying the property with the same fucking token.
Oh, my God.
Right?
But you build it for the masses.
You build it for the masses.
And then you get them to buy into the idea, understand the idea,
and then put their home into it.
Yeah, okay.
Yeah, we're a little off track with the prostate and the house.
This isn't a home.
It's not land.
1-888-693-222 and get erect.
I reckon Gary understood that, Grant, I'll be honest.
Yeah.
And Tina, I agree with you.
It has to be marketed. Okay.
The number one problem with all products and services and companies and
vehicles is the marketing.
If you can't market it, nobody's going to ever fucking know about it.
No, I get that.
All I'm saying is, is you've now created sort of this muddied up product
because down the line, you spent a lot of time marketing it,
but down the line,
if Bitcoin is sitting doing nothing in five years,
people look at it and say,
I don't want your Bitcoin.
I know this looks great,
but I just don't think it really adds anything
because it's like this whole notion of Bitcoin bonds.
All this stuff is just silly.
As an investor
as someone you think you think stretch is silly what's that you think stretch is silly
stretches in a bond okay i know i'm but i'm asking about stretch it's a preferred it's a
preferred stock on microstrategy i understand but the point that i'm making but you said all
these things are silly well they are it's silly silly to mix these assets as if somehow it changes anything.
It doesn't.
And an investor, I mean, forget about people who, you're not selling to people who are drooling morons.
Someone can easily buy the assets themselves.
And I think it just muddies it up.
I mean, I can buy Bitcoin
and I can buy a REIT.
I can buy Bitcoin
and I can invest in X10.
I can do both of those.
You can buy a REIT.
You can buy a REIT.
IBM stock.
You can buy a REIT,
but you will not own one property.
No, I understand that,
but I can...
You won't even know
the property you own.
But it's not the only property
in the world.
But what I'm saying is,
what I'm saying, Grant,
is that I think you're going to find, in my opinion, that over the long run, this did not help achieve anything for you in particular.
You might have had a marketplace, but that marketplace that wants that product is going to get very saturated very fast.
Now there's no need, and now it's going to get saturated.
Well, saturated because there really is no need for it.
Well, how does it get saturated if there's no need?
That's the point. Because if there was enormous demand for it, then the market wouldn't get
saturated. But the point is, I can buy bonds and I can buy stocks. I can
buy Bitcoin and I can buy stocks. I can buy Bitcoin and I can buy real estate. There's
nothing preventing me from doing that. I may not have been able to buy that particular property,
but I can go buy an X10 share in one of your properties and own Bitcoin.
share in one of your properties and on Bitcoin.
Those are not-
100%.
100%.
You would not, Tina, you would not be a target for this product.
You would not ever consider this product.
If it outperformed everything you ever owned, you still would not be a buyer for this product.
Any more than you're going to get hair extensions.
But it wouldn't.
You're not.
You're not a buyer for that product.
It doesn't mean the product is not good for someone.
I didn't say the product wasn't good.
That's not what I said.
I said the product is easily replicated, is what I said.
And particularly in a world where you have Bitcoin ETFs, it's a very easily replicated
product.
That's all I'm saying.
And as such, I don't really see the value add to it. That's all I'm saying.
No, no, we get it, dude. I get it. I'm not hurt by the fact that you don't.
But 99% of planet Earth does not understand Bitcoin, what it is. Most of you can't explain
it to anybody without going over their heads and most of the planet except
for that one dude this earlier doesn't they do understand real estate at least that they
live in it or it's hard for them to afford and most people would love to invest in it
and so i wasn't making i'm not trying to make an argument for the vehicle i know the vehicle
the combination hybrid works.
It's how do I, you know, how do I fractionalize it using tokens?
And my real question was this, why has no one done this at scale?
And you guys might be answering the question right now.
I think you'd be better off if you had larger projects, because I think you're going to be a liquidity issue that Gary
touched on, market cap. I mean, we have markets today. There are a lot of little stocks that are
really interesting. But the fact of the matter is, a lot of people aren't interested in them.
They take work to understand. And these projects are like those little stocks. You have to have
people who are doing work on it and understand what it is that they're buying
and why they want to own it.
And people buy the S&P 500.
They buy big assets.
They buy Google.
They buy Microsoft.
A lot of people don't do that kind of work.
So I don't know that it's just this very obvious thing.
And personally, there's an advantage to putting in a REIT.
There's an advantage to having investors who are interested in your project, in your REIT.
There's an advantage to that liquidity.
And you want to take good properties, which are reasonable for individuals to own who have some money.
You know, I think you can create liquidity other ways.
I mean, again, you can do a second market kind of structure.
You just have to have the legal structure for it.
And I don't know if there is or if there isn't.
That I couldn't tell you.
Where you have people buying these things, it would still take marketing.
But I think you're still going to come up against the problem of a very small market.
And I just don't think it's that easy.
And I don't think it's not doable.
The question is how much real interest is there.
That's all.
And I think it a lot more interesting than one property in Florida, but to own something that
has 50 or 100 properties, you know, five or $10 billion market cap. Wow, that's really interesting.
And it's something which is marketable because it has some heft to it.
Yeah, that's good feedback.
Yeah, 50 or 100 separate individual projects.
Yeah, thank you for that.
I've looked for REITs in Florida.
I haven't found any.
They're only Florida, uniquely Florida.
Yeah, well, I own about 11,000 units here, so.
You could make a REIT out of it.
Yeah, you don't want a REIT today, dude.
I mean, I think you're loosely using this word REIT. No, no, I get it.
I get it.
Yeah, the REITs are done.
It is a dinosaur vehicle.
It will die in the future.
There will be massive consolidation from 190 to maybe 20 or 25 REITs at the most.
They are too small or too big, and everything in between gets lost. from 190 to maybe 20 or 25 REITs at the most.
They are too small or too big, and everything in between gets lost.
It's a garbage product.
What kind of structure would they have to be in?
Because it wouldn't be a C-Corp, right?
Because a C-Corp has its own set of problems.
Yeah, well, everything's got a problem, right? But the REIT structure has not changed for 65 years, and they're getting destroyed. I know guys in the space with 120,000 units, and they're like, dude, I'd rather be you right now. They have a three-year fucking gun at their temple telling them when to sell.
A handful of institutions, you know, run the equity on the deal or control the asset.
And then the REIT becomes so expensive to run, you know.
I mean, I know probably a dozen REITs where the board, just the board members' expenses are more than the income of the REIT.
And they have to distribute all their cash so they never have dough.
Hey, make sure I'm a board member, okay?
Of course, dude.
Inside, inside.
Fuck, I'd have Tina be one too, but he's fucking yells all the time.
No, I would never yell at you
Grant do you yell when you're just fucking waking up in the morning no I'm quiet when I wake up in
the morning okay see you always argue though no matter what I say hey you're good looking Tina
no I'm not good looking Grant I saw myself earlier today yeah see no matter what I say to Tina, you fucking do. You don't know what I look like.
I know what you look like.
You are good looking, Grant.
Well, thank you.
Always agree.
Oh, my God.
Well, I got on the scale today, so I know that's not quite true.
Tina, if I say, hey, Tina, we're having nice weather you would say yeah but it might it was gorgeous gorgeous weather
and Evan what are your thoughts on uh on the discussion I know you dabble in real estate
here and there uh it's interesting man I I, it's an interesting concept. I think, you know,
it makes sense what Grant says. Definitely. Um, you know, I think that like, from my perspective
on somebody who's like a really good macro allocator, you know, I think that it's not
something I would, you know, be interested in at the moment, but I need more data for something I
want to buy. Like I wouldn't buy, you know, something like that when it first comes to kind of fruition,
because I like to look at stuff that's been around for a bit. You know, that's more of like,
I'm kind of, you know, for my long term stuff, more of like macro allocation between,
you know, generally different ETFs, that type of stuff. I mean, I was looking at some of my
returns just like long term for the past like 12 months, and there was like 30%, which is, you know, that's always kind of
been my goal for like long term stuff. Like the goal is not like, you know, max, you know, crazy
kind of returns there. But, you know, my goal is just to outperform, you know, S&P 500. A lot of
times, you know, a good hedge fund manager gets 30% a year. So that's kind of
been my goal there. But if these opportunities, you know, are there, these opportunities present
themselves, and I, you know, I could look at some data on that. And I think I could get that type
of return then yeah, but I mean, let's be real, you know, real estate's return is on average 5%
a year. You know, I think there's different areas where real estate can outperform the S&P 500,
such as this year.
I think it's pretty likely, you know, good real estate, you know,
will outperform the S&P 500 kind of hot real estate.
You know, we've talked about Miami, Florida real estate, things of that nature.
It's the one I look at because I have exposure to it a little bit,
or I should say a lot of it to a certain extent.
But, you know, I think that could outperform the S&P 500 this year.
So what's attractive to me there is if you can get out easily after the year and outperform
the S&P 500, I think it's easy if you, that's very attractive if you can get out quickly.
I think Grant makes some good point.
I mean, I'm not an expert on real estate investment trusts or, you know, this discussion, there's a lot I don't know about it, but it seems like grants seem, it makes, it makes
a good point with, um, with that type of stuff, you know, investment, real estate investment trust
kind of being dead. And if you look at some of those charts, like I would argue, um, what's the
Vanguard one, the Vanguard real estate chart, like that probably would at least go sideways against
the S and P 500 this year. But when you zoom out on like those real estate investment trusts, a lot of them versus the S&P 500, they just generally just keep bleeding.
Like they just bleed out extensively.
And then certain times you'll get a year where it goes kind of sideways or outperforms a little bit like 2022.
I think 2018 probably.
This year is probably going to be one of those sideways to slightly bullish years for that so it's attractive to be able to get in or get out maybe you'd have a better return
with some tokenized thing um i think we're kind of probably years away from that but
if it presents itself then yeah definitely
well guys i'm gonna go ahead and wrap up i want to thank all the speakers grant gary tina evan
naka prometheus uh david thank you all so much shout out to all the other speakers as well
oh yeah poyo and prez they also came up today and uh thank you to all the other speakers about
forgetting your name we've had a plethora of speakers during today's stream.
So if I'm forgetting you, apologies.
I'll shout you out after the stream is done.
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