Good morning, good morning, Fijio.
How are you doing, actually?
I'm getting ready for this nice little broadcast we're doing.
I've got to be honest, I have some favorites when it comes to points and tokens and utilities.
I've got a couple of favors myself, but I'm curious to see what people think about it.
I was afraid it might just be me up here talking about meme coins and marketing, but good morning,
How are you doing today, boss?
I still have a bit to talk about here, too, so I'm happy you're here.
Yeah, I saw the topic, but I also figured I could actually talk to you.
For those in the audience, if you have some takes or you're interested in the conversation
and want to ask some questions, feel free to come up, hit the request button, we'll let
you up, and I'll set up the framework for the conversation.
I think what happens in Web 3, I mean, I'm sure it happens in every industry, but especially
Web 3 is we tend to focus, we get hyper-focused on every niche move and forget to step back
and see what the larger framework of what's happening is.
It's not necessarily that important if you're just spitballing into every shit coin you
see on some mathematical hopes that one out of a hundred hits, which I'm sure there's
math to it, but I think if you step back and think a little bit deeper into why these
tokens are being launched, who's launching them, really looking into what support they
have and the reasons that they exist and why projects would be launched in the first
place, I think gives you a bit of an edge that you can mix with your mimetic perspective.
So most shit corners, it's not crazy.
If you're betting on meme coins, none of this is financial advice, you're looking at the
tickers essentially, and you're seeing which one is the funniest, which one you think will
catch on the most, which one will make the most memes, because it's really about attention.
So it signals, you see somebody else bought it, you think that because of that somebody
else is going to buy it, so you buy it because they bought it, and that has a ripple effect.
But what we're seeing is, in my opinion, more sophisticated institutions, i.e. for ease,
big chains, not directly supporting, I think for legal reasons, but indirectly supporting
meme coins more and more frequently now.
And their explanation is that it's an easier form of marketing than NFTs are.
They're not quite as sticky, but they still create community, and especially when they're
directly focused on the chain.
So if it's a meme coin that very clearly references either the culture or the technology
or the chain itself, then it's inherently identifying that ecosystem as its identity.
And I think there's a lot of intelligence as to how things get marketed and monetized.
I think what we're seeing, and then I'll pass it to Akti and board.
But you're seeing NFT projects propped up by token ecosystems or token projects, and
then supported by the chain themselves.
So they're essentially using meme coins to funnel in attention towards their NFT communities
and bolster up their NFT communities that was too hard or expensive.
I think D-God is a perfect example of that, where it might be a lot easier to just launch
a shit coin, hype that up, get a shit ton of attention, people actually using your token
as well, and then focus on retaining them in your ecosystem and driving them to the
projects that you want, whether they be NFTs or gambling platforms or functional protocols.
So Akti, I'd love to hear your thoughts.
We could also talk about which tokens you're enjoying.
And if you look at them just as meme shits, or are you looking at if they're generating
Well, I'll be completely honest.
And this is why ever since we started Moby Media, we never shied away from fan tokens,
community tokens, meme tokens, shit, whatever you want to call them.
Because at the end of the day, even it's like you said it, even the big dogs now
have figured out that all you need to push something forward is a good supportive community
So of course, it's going to be very easy to rally some troops behind some memes.
Because like take last night, for example, right, we had some people over for an AMA.
And it was it was amazing, if you ask me, you know, but having to explain to people
how creating a stable coin backed by delta neutral positions is something that's not
only feasible, but also scalable, and has nice security to it doesn't have the sort
of same ring as telling them, hey, boys, you know, make some memes, you might win some
with some contests, you know, or look at today, we're making memes with dogs tomorrow,
we're gonna make some memes with cats.
And the day after, we're going to have like a different meme contest each day of the
And that will get people interested.
And it's sort of I see it as like a foot in the door strategy, you know, if you get
them interested, just a little bit on a little bit of an aspect of whatever you're trying
to do, then it'll work out, they'll they'll try to dig deeper, or at least the people
that you want to be interested, you know, we'll see the potential.
That's why a lot of a lot of tokens nowadays do focus on airdrops and giving people points.
And we saw like Rabi Wallet just put out their point system for people, and they have
a pretty good cool system, whereas you can't really symbol it too much, because there's
a cap on how many points you can get per day and things like that.
So people are realizing that if they sort of gamify a little bit their their environments
and their ecosystems, people will use it just to get a few more points or just a few
more a few NFTs that might have some value to them might not, you know, you never
And I'm a big fan of this kind of system myself.
I've been using a lot of these platforms, you know, not just for farming the potential airdrops,
because sure, it's easy to follow, you know, Linnea and all these other chains that have
raised hundreds of millions of dollars, and you can assume that they're going to go the
Well, some of them also confirmed it, right, that they're going to go the same route
that Arbitrum did, and all these other big players, right, that sort of, well, awarded
some tokens to people that use their protocols.
And having brought Arbitrum into conversation, that's probably one of my favorite airdrops,
because when I was using Arbitrum, I wasn't doing it to, you know, get some points or
to get anything like that.
I was just doing it because it was a nice chain.
There was stuff to do there that there were communities forming.
And it wasn't just memes, of course, GMX was a big driver and everything like that.
But there were some memes too, there were some smaller projects that were forming a community.
And by the time the airdrop came, like a lot of people were surprised.
A lot of people, I know some of my friends, they got airdrops, and they had no idea,
like they saw it like a day or two late, because they didn't care about that.
They were all into, okay, this is a nice layer too, and we're using it then.
That's an interesting question, right?
Those two things I think I wanted to talk about, and I'd love to go to board, or I'll go back
to Acti first, which is, what you're seeing is rewarding for past action, trying to incentivize
current action, then with the hope or expectation or promise of rewarding future action, right?
And legally, you get into a questionable area of rewarding future actions.
And so what you're seeing is points, right?
And these will probably turn into something conversation.
So still dancing around the legalities of airdropping, but the industry has gotten comfortable with
And you see this with like Gary, you see this with the plague, you're going to see it more
frequently where they're saying, oh, we're now giving equity, right?
And you'll see the language, they said, there's nothing promised, there was nothing
promised, and we're just gratuitously giving that away, right?
That's a legal dance, which at the end of the day, I don't think it's a problem.
The requirement of the Howie test is an investment of money.
So you would expect that an airdrop for past actions where there was no expectation of
money, and skirting around a promise of money in the future, but giving away off-chain
points that may turn into an airdrop, and then dancing along the lines of what were
you expecting is most likely the biggest theme throughout all of crypto, right?
Even in the XRP ruling, the question where XRP thought they won, the judge just simply
said that there wasn't enough facts asserted by the plaintiffs, SEC, to determine that
the people who were buying XRP on the secondary market were doing with the expectation of
value, of profit, based off of the statements of Ripple themselves, and likely in appeal,
if they do assert that, that case will fall apart.
But we're talking about expectations, right, and how you're allocating your marketing funds,
and points and all these things are super interesting in terms of what you would call
in marketing conversion or breakage, which is the act of stickiness, essentially.
And so I'd love to go to board, first of all, what tokens are you messing around with?
And I'd love to hear your thought process as to why you're interested in any specific
I'm going to keep it a buck.
I kind of stepped away from most of the meme coins and whatnot.
I think they're really good for bringing people into the space.
Unfortunately, really good to get people to leave the space as well.
And a majority of these meme coins are just created by like the same people over and
over, washing and repeating their little scheme they have going on.
So I try to stay away from them.
So, board, I'll make the question in your wheelhouse then, seeing as how this is my first
bull in crypto Twitter, meaning being public facing.
And so I'm going to highlight the different kinds of silos or communities of people.
For those who are deep in crypto Twitter, they don't really touch crypto YouTube.
But if I'm not mistaken, YouTube has the biggest impact.
So I'd love to hear your thoughts on like different kinds of marketing and their effectiveness
in different times of our bears and bulls.
And I'm actually interested, who are the YouTube people talking to?
I definitely think that YouTube is the most substantial form of marketing.
People just tend to have a lot more research, knowledge and overall depth to their content
compared to Instagram or TikTok or honestly, even crypto Twitter for the most part.
But when it comes to like who they're talking with, I know like on my end, my influencers,
as of right now, it's a lot of congressmen and politicians, given the campaigns are coming
It's a really important time for not only America, but also for crypto, because whoever
is in office for the next four years is going to directly impact our crypto regulations, right?
I mean, with the cyclical nature of bull run bear cycle, etc, etc.
Like this is my third cycle.
And like the first cycle I was in, there wasn't too much content, there were like four
YouTubers maybe that I could probably put a name to.
I don't even think three of them are around anymore.
But then the second cycle, like 21 that I was a part of, you saw TikTok, Instagram, crypto
Twitter, YouTube, like shit, Facebook, everywhere, everyone was making content trying to elaborate,
expand and just kind of push the agenda and the narrative of Web3 as an industry.
So you saw like a really big influx of content being produced, created, and a lot more people
getting onboarded, right?
I think now in this cycle, a lot of TikTok got burned last cycle due to just people just
throwing a video out without any disclaimers.
I know like a lot of influencers are just getting subpoenas, getting in a lot of trouble.
So I think a lot of the content is going to be funneled through X and YouTube again
And I see a lot of the other influencers on other platforms kind of falling off, because
I think we've just grown and matured a lot as a space.
But that's not going to discredit that there is a place for these other content platforms
and influencers that do want to do their little shows and everything like that.
Because ultimately, that's an easy way to get people exposed to crypto in a micro fashion.
But once they learn more, I think they're going to go over towards YouTube and crypto
So I always thought of YouTube as being the top of the funnel in terms of, for lack of
a better word, taking advantage of retail.
And I would agree that I have to assume Instagram and Facebook and whatever other social platform
just get more and more shilling.
And we probably look at it as like an inverse of quality of project to sophistication of audience
combined with disregard for the law, meaning promises and shilling and stuff like that.
I always thought that crypto Twitter was essentially the last in terms of memetics, but the first
in terms of sophistication and the best place to go for no, Noah, you say no.
I think it would be like a close contest.
But the thing that I'll take from YouTube that I've seen is, compared to like every
other project, it's really easy to just drop a contract address and say, oh, Janet Yellen,
Inu coin, these other tokenomics, this is the contract address.
I think it's going to moon.
It's really easy to get that across the long form nature makes it makes you.
Yeah, because the long form nature, if you're covering a project and it's a real project,
you're not just trying to pump something and you're doing your job and due diligence,
you're going to have some cool aspects to talk about.
You're going to be able to dive deep into the tech.
You're going to be able to help people understand what they're doing and what makes it a good
And that's one of the key identifiers for like knowing who's a real influencer and who's
just there to pad their bags because it's you can't go too deep into a lot of these
mean coins or even like the rug pulls because they're just not well thought out, right?
Like they're they tend to be very quick, simple delivery, the elevator pitch, get people hype,
people buy, boom, your money goes bye bye.
But the real projects that get talked about, it tends to be a reoccurring thing.
It's not a one off on a creator's channel, it's something that we'll talk about multiple
times and multiple videos.
They'll be able to discuss it in depth with other people and they'll be staying up to
date with the community or the team and trying to see how they're able to help help them
because the real projects, again, they give you more to talk about and more to update
And I want to go to Noah but it's funny and this goes into the conversation we often have
about intentional and unintentional rug, right?
A mean coin is nothing, right?
A mean coin is a success if it does get that massive exposure and does get a massive market
cap and then it becomes quote unquote not a shit coin or not a rug, right?
Like we don't consider doge a rug.
So if YouTubers are pumping it but it works, who's to decide what's a shit coin and not
absent honey pots and an obvious on contract rugs?
But it's an interesting concept.
Most definitely and I think one of the main things you have to keep in mind with that
concept is we're really just in the stock market 2.0 when it comes to the whole trading
In order to make money, somebody has to lose money.
Money doesn't just appear unless you're the U.S. government and you want to print it.
So oftentimes people are going to lose regardless of what project they get involved in and
people are going to win if it's a mean coin and they got in early and then it gets to
the hundred million market cap and starts getting like a actual sound grip of like,
oh, we're going to build a foundation out because this has legs.
Let's do something with it coming from like the dev and the team and whatnot.
Most people are going to cash out and as that hyper cycle continues and it keeps bolstering
the price, they're going to exit and then people are going to lose money.
It's going to, it's hard to define the rug versus the non rug, but for me, anything
that just blatantly is going to disappear with your money or a team that has no clear
vision or understanding of a the space or what they're even doing.
They just wanted to make some money.
I consider that a rug, but then you get the unintentional rugs, right?
Where the team did everything that they possibly could.
They just showed up every day.
Unfortunately, they just didn't get that market share because people weren't interested
I mean, when you start a coin, you're essentially starting a business.
But from my understanding, it's completely illegal to even launch a coin in the United
I don't know if that's correct, Fidge, but you're the lawyer.
That's like the core entire discussion happening in the courts.
Whenever you hear that a token is not inherently a security, what they're saying is and where
I believe the law goes and where it's trending certainly globally is tokens are tend to be
again, not legal advice, tend to be considered securities under the circumstances of which
If I make a token and give you a token, right, the question then becomes by nature, by the
very nature, and this has always been the issue, but the very nature of creating a
token and the decentralized nature of our chain, you find the contract address.
You can get it listed on an exchange, right?
So even though you might not have sold the asset, liquidity can be provided and that token
can be traded in the secondary market.
That's where the question becomes.
It's supposed to be angled at the issuance, which is why you see things like fair launches,
which is why you see things like them being launched by charities that are dows abroad.
They're all trying to get away from the for-profit portion or an exchange of money as well as
But I think it's still up in the air and I think it's really interesting.
Noah, I'd love to get your thoughts and welcome Aleko, welcome out of LA.
I'm interested in these different areas of marketing and the people, and if the government
is cracking down on the shills by celebrities and stuff like that, does that mean that if
you're an influencer on Twitter, that there's room right now and it's appropriate for highly
educated influencers to start building on YouTube and spread that education?
Noah, what are your thoughts?
I think when I get thumbs down to the sophistication thing, I don't particularly find the content
on Twitter to be any less or more sophisticated than YouTube.
I think it's just more abundant and I think that it requires a bit more sophistication
for the average retail investor to navigate Twitter versus finding a YouTube channel and
But at the end of the day, I think it matters how the influencer, quote, unquote, or KOL,
whatever you want to call it, is conveying that information.
So I don't want to bash certain projects, but there's certain tokens that I see shield
across multiple circles and multiple influencers.
Here's a beautiful thing, Noah.
You're not funding it if you talk about it.
Yeah, I mean, I can talk about it.
So one of my favorite YouTubers is virtual bacon, Dennis.
I think he does a great job of actually going into, yeah, the name is silly, but he's
probably the best YouTuber I've seen as far as breaking things down at a fundamental
level and explaining why he likes certain projects and why his portfolio is allocated
He's been chilling super a few times over the last, I don't know, I've seen over the
last couple of months, at least, him talking about super.
And I find it kind of odd that when he talks about super, he doesn't go into that same
level of detail that he does for the projects.
And I see a lot of other big YouTubers, Alex Becker, obviously, Elio Traits, Super
But I see YouTubers and influencers talk about super, but no one can tell me what
I've so I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what what the point of the project
is, what the goal of the project is.
All I keep hearing is a lot of big backers, Elio Traits is the hard worker and he's
been he's been building this thing out and he knows a lot about tokenomics.
And so I would be careful about kind of these vague explain and sure, it might
pump because, you know, the influencers pump projects, but I'd be very careful
about these kind of vague explanations around projects where you don't really you
have a hard time wrapping your head around it, then it's probably because they're
not doing a good job of explaining it.
But I think like if you want to if you're trying to flip bags, and I think who
is it that was saying was it since I'm since I'm bored, bored was basically saying
a lot of the stuff is greater, greater fool theory, you just selling your bag
to someone else that's coming in willing to buy it for more.
And a lot of these projects are just they're they're rugged.
And so you don't have to physically I mean, I don't need you to literally
rug for me to call you a scam project, right?
I'll call out Klima, for example, I'll call out certain projects.
You very clearly saw for again, your community.
That was a very obvious Ponzi.
So is it still a Ponzi if you know it's a Ponzi?
So I mean, it's well, let's let's think about let's talk about all the time.
Klima own like for those who were those around these were like so so I'll just
give you a quick example.
One of the first jobs as an attorney was representing homeowners in 2008.
And they would come in against foreclosure and they would come in and
complain, you know, they had this their mortgage document was 500 pages.
And we'd go through it like, yes, it's incredibly confusing.
And then it would always end up with this odd moment where I'd go.
But just just just a thought.
In what world did you think that you could pay a thousand dollars a month
for a five million dollar home and think that you were paying your
Like there's there's some basic common sense, right?
So to your point, right, like what I was saying is if it's if you know what
you're playing in, is it still what it is?
And that's really the whole thing with crypto, right?
We want to be able to gamble how we want.
So I mean, I think that my issue with some of these projects is that they
claim if you go so you had all these Olympus South Forks Snowbank was an
example and they kind of botched their project.
They actually refunded a certain percentage of like they have a floor
price and they refunded a certain percentage of people's investments.
I remember asking Klima to do the same thing and they claim they're still
building. So I take issue with projects that tell me they're still
building and they're still cooking shit up and you look at their token
price and it's negative 1000X from the top.
So yeah, I would just kind of grabbing up my thoughts here is I would be
care I would be careful about listening too deeply to any influencer, anyone
with the platform, including me or anyone else up here.
But I mean, I don't I don't think that I I don't think any of us really have.
I'm talking about that the Alex Becker is the Elio trades that the big
YouTubers I think they make great content.
But if you go back and you look at February or January of 2022, almost
every influencer was was buying into the supercycle rhetoric, the extended
cycle rhetoric, how we're still going to go up and everyone flopped
flip-flopped really quickly after the FTX debacle.
So the truth is like no one really knows what's going to happen.
But if you I think the best way to kind of predict what the market's going
to do is just buy the different kinds of news that's coming out.
But also just like I don't like to try to predict the future with based
in the past, but these cycles so far, and this is my I guess second
cycle, second and a half cycle, they're very similar.
I have noticed a lot of similarities between where Bitcoin is now and
where it was in early 2022.
So it's going to be I think there's some interesting thoughts here, right?
I think in each sector, right, and three cycles, the what were the
noobs become educated enough to to to not get taken advantage of by
the same by the same assets that are in existence, right?
So I don't think NFTs are going to be the way that that that
As the cycles go, each vertical becomes more established.
I think the NFT one is is establishing identity and mutability
And then that'll flow pretty naturally into metaverses.
I'm interested in what the next will probably be RWAs.
Well, now it's a drops, right?
And the thing is, is I'm saying I'm seeing all these layer twos
and all these airdrop opportunities and everyone's
And all these layer twos are just like a copy paste of a
previous layer two with copy paste of the same D5 protocols
Yeah, but but but no, but in order for newbies to take an
advantage of that, they have to be basically shit corning.
And I don't think they're ready to be shit corning.
I mean, I think. Yeah, I mean, I think I think the
shit corning is probably still going to be very much meme
focused, because they're easy to understand, right?
I don't I think NFTs, I think if you want to talk about
shit corning, memes are superior to NFTs, a fungible token
that's liquid, that I can go dump on an exchange is much
easier to play around with than an NFT that I need to go
list on OpenSea and hope someone buys it for me, right?
That the knife is falling much faster.
Yeah, I'm kind of out of it.
How are you doing, by the way?
Those are just recovering.
Nice to see you, brother.
I'm doing amazing. Another glorious day.
And we're finally getting teasers of your project.
I guess that's the the ordinal way.
Yeah, I mean, you know, for me or just in general in life,
it's like managing expectations is like the most important thing.
You know, I think all the hype driven stuff is just down only.
And, you know, you just want people to be there because they want to be there.
Like, I actually just came off of a like a Chinese space
and they were like super receptive.
And I think we need more like cross-cultural spaces.
You know, I think like people that aren't leveraging that,
like that's one of the coolest things about like being in spaces.
People really take for granted like the alpha that you hear in English.
Right. And if anyone's been familiar with previous cycles, especially this one,
you know, they're always fueled by Asia. Right.
You know, and like especially this one.
So it used to be like hanging out in WeChat groups,
but WeChat actually cut down on like everything crypto.
So now they've all like migrated to Telegram, which like I'm super active on.
But yeah, do you speak Mandarin?
But if you have Telegram premium and you click one button,
it'll automatically translate everything for you.
And I think pretty soon, you know, we'll have like real real time
AI voice translation to like really cut through that barrier.
Yeah. I mean, just to speak on like what Noah was talking about,
like, you know, I've been following Alex Becker,
Elio trades, you know, like I'm friends with tons of like the Neo Tokyo citizens.
They kind of they treat like Elio, sort of like the the bastard child,
so to speak, of the ecosystem.
You know, I've been following it for a while.
They said they were a gaming studio, then they pivoted and, you know,
even though things seem like scams, I think some of the best performing
coins will be the ones with the worst tokenomics from the most predatory teams.
You know, a lot of these teams basically launched Peak Bear,
and they've desperately been waiting for more favorable conditions
so they could deploy their bag of tricks and do some market manipulation.
You know, I look at like Alex Becker or Elio and, you know,
they're just great counter indicators, usually.
I know Elio like completely flopped, you know, in terms of like he mentioned,
he lost like 30 million or, you know, something to like that effect,
like in like the previous cycle.
For me, I follow more like GCR, who like short of the top of size
and basically called everything.
He's like more of a forecaster.
And then, yeah, I mean, if people like are trying to like find an edge,
you know, look for an edge, you know, like don't just trade.
Like the best thing you could do is become a big fish in a small pond,
you know, because then you control your destiny, right?
Like if you're relying on some stranger on the internet and a PVP situation
to like provide you with an opportunity, it's not going to happen.
You're going to be exit look, but like just build real connections
in the space, be genuine, give without expectations, you know,
and like have patience and conviction and a thesis,
like focus on one specific thing.
I see a lot of people being like rotators and like that's how you get wrecked.
You know, like there's always another opportunity,
but just pick a subsection that interests you,
that you have an edge in and like you'll do incredibly well.
Some of my favorite people, Meta, Doc, Andrew, Jay, new fans.
Welcome, Kabir and I welcome.
Lot of family, always happy to have you.
I think that's a great thesis.
And it's funny how in life, especially when it comes to money,
sometimes you just need to distill it down, right?
Like it's not complicated.
You're usually good at what you're good at.
So I implore everybody here in the space.
This is something that I've trained myself.
Don't chase and don't feel bad if you miss stuff.
That's how you get wrecked.
It doesn't make a difference what you're in.
Andrew, I think you will echo that tremendously.
How are you doing, Andrew?
I'll just apply this kind of to the airdrop lens.
I think like the biggest mistake I see people making
is, you know, certain airdrops or certain projects, again,
you know, start to get a lot of visibility on the timeline.
And then everybody's like, that's the one.
But I don't think what they're really understanding is
you're now competing with a much larger set of folks,
you know, for the same airdrops.
So therefore, the percentage that you're getting is less.
And so the strategy that I've taken, going back to the last speaker,
is like, I tend to pick things where I'm bullish on the technology,
I'm bullish on the founders, I'm bullish on the vertical.
And there's not a lot of chatter about it.
And maybe there's going to be more chatter, you know, towards the end.
But again, that's my way to kind of get in
and be in a much smaller competition set.
I mean, like there's certain airdrops where I've done extremely well.
And to that point, like that one airdrop may be the same value
as had I been in 10 other airdrops that, you know,
maybe I'm grinding just as hard on.
But again, there's, you know, 100x as many people kind of going after it.
So I do think, again, like pick a lane, focus, look where others are not looking.
I definitely kind of echo and agree with what the last speaker was saying.
And there are some easier ways to approach shitcoining.
Like if you want to just dab your toe in, right.
At the end of the day, there is a thesis to the idea
that you can look at the people launching the token
and realize that they can't let it fail.
Meaning that you know that it's going to do some sort of sizable numbers
because they wouldn't be launching it without that.
Yeah, I mean, I'll just give you kind of a little strategy.
Like, here's how I approach it.
So, you know, I start with kind of the sector.
Like, am I bullish on Deepin?
Am I bullish on DeFi, right?
Then I look at kind of number two, the founders.
I'll see where they're coming from.
You know, are these folks that, you know,
come from real business backgrounds?
Are these, you know, multi-time success founders?
Are these folks that understand mass adoption?
You know, then I'll dig into obviously things like white papers.
I might go and look at, you know, community.
But really, I think at the end of the day, we're so early, right?
And you do have to think of it as, you know,
even if you get an airdrop from one of these projects,
again, if you're bullish on the sector,
if you're bullish on the founders,
if you're bullish on, you know, the technical innovation,
you know, realistically, you want to hold that for the long run, right?
Because we're in such early stages.
And so that's the other thing is, you know,
not every airdrop is created equal.
I think, again, the question becomes,
when you get that airdrop,
what's the long-term potential, you know, for that token?
Not to say you can't get an airdrop
and then swap it into something else
that you're more bullish on long-term.
But ideally, you're just, you know,
again, focused on something from a long-term perspective.
You're trying to get a competitive advantage
from the beginning, right?
You're getting it earlier than everybody else.
And then you're bullish that, you know,
you're going to ride that through the entire bull market.
Yeah, I'm not sure I fully understand the question,
but like, I just look at meme coins in as,
I mean, first off, I like meme coins.
Like, I'm not anti-meme coins.
I think there's a lot of people that are like,
well, meme coins drain liquidity from real projects
Like, these numbers are all going to go up, right?
But I'm a big believer in the value of meme coins.
The way I look at meme coins is I put them under
kind of the gambling sector, right?
Because at the end of the day,
it's like, really, what you're doing
and you're taking a bet that, you know,
could go up 1,000 or 2,000X but could go to zero.
And so I, you know, for me at least,
you know, when I'm trading or doing on-chain activity,
I really look at, you know, trading meme coins
the same way I look at using
some of these online decentralized casinos.
So that's my take on meme coins.
I do think meme coins bring culture.
I do think meme coins build community
in a similar way to NFTs.
But again, like, you can't look at a meme coin
the same way you're looking at, you know,
an infrastructure play or like a deep-in play.
It's just a, it's a very different sector, right?
Maybe I'll put it out now.
But I wanted to see, like,
what general sentiment was around points.
And I have a feeling the sentiment is fairly negative.
My take on points is what I do like about them,
but again, I don't think you have to do it as a points model.
There's other ways to do it,
is it enables you to track your performance.
It enables you to understand, hey,
I've put in X amount of time,
or I put in X amount of resources,
and now I can see the tangible impact of that, right?
So it's a nice response mechanism.
But my concern with points is, again, long-term,
some of these projects, one point may equal one token,
other projects that may not be the case.
And I just worry about, like, sentiment on the back end
if expectations and reality are not aligned in the end.
That's my concern with points.
So then I have to ask you,
and then Aleko, I'd love to hear your thoughts.
What are your thoughts on, you mentioned an alternative.
So it sounds like, how do you make an incentivized alternative
that also accomplishes the tracking?
Because I like the tracking.
But what were you thinking?
Maybe you'll see in coming months, my friend.
I can't give you all the playbooks.
But actually, I'll give you, like, an interesting,
another thing about airdrop hunting
I don't know that everybody thinks about this.
But there are, and I'll use Hashpo as an example,
there are underlying technologies
that a lot of these projects are built on, right?
And when you do certain on-chain actions
on these projects built on top of that infrastructure,
you are effectively generating on-chain actions
So you can look at the eigenlayer recent narrative.
But again, it's not just about,
what am I doing on that project to qualify me for an airdrop?
You want to think about it in two lanes.
Like, is there a project where I can do something
that's going to qualify me for an airdrop?
But because it's built on top of this technology,
is that also qualify me for another airdrop?
And like the example I'll give is,
we just launched a cross-chain on Hashpo
so I can swap from arb to sole natively,
no synthetic assets, no bridges.
Kind of traditional tradify groups
and then they launched Jump Crypto.
So I don't know, I don't know if there's going to be
a wormhole airdrop or anything like that,
but you better believe that I'm doing these cross-chain swaps
it's generating on-chain activity on wormhole.
And if they do end up having an airdrop down the road,
I'll qualify for that just by doing
my cross-chain trades on Hashpo, right?
So that's a good example of what I call the two-for-one special.
It's kind of like Jumper, the bridge aggregator.
If you use Jumper and you also use Stargate as a route,
you kind of double-qualify yourself.
So prior to this, I did use Stargate quite a bit
might as well try to qualify for a layer zero airdrop.
And then same thing, bought a little pudgy,
which the cross-chain enablement of little pudgies
was powered by layer zero.
When I took a cross-chain,
I ended up getting a token because I brought it onto BNB.
that token is probably going to qualify
for some level of airdrop or airdrop incentive bonus.
So is it the language at the end of the day
that we're talking about?
Or we're talking about the nature of value connected
to how points are distributed in correlation
to the actions that are being done.
And do those actions actually generate revenue?
And therefore, it makes sense for revenue or value
to be attributed to any future airdrop.
So I've always wondered that part, right?
Like, for example, Steppen.
Whenever a token is being distributed
for something that doesn't generate money,
how is it ever going to be sustainable?
That's the million-dollar question, my friend.
I mean, it goes back to kind of the big tech web too model.
I mean, you look at companies like Uber
that I believe are still not profitable, right?
And for them, it's, you know, if we can drive more usage,
we can drive more revenue.
But again, like, eventually the clock runs out.
And I think that's the other problem with points
is that if you do this points model
and then in the end, the translation between points
and tokens or points in airdrop is not aligned
Well, right when that's done,
you're not going to retain any of those users.
So you just went through a pretty significant amount
of time and money to drive a lot of, you know,
on-chain activity, bullish metrics.
And now you're seeing a huge dip
because folks have negative sentiment now in the end,
So I think that at the end of the day is so important,
like, that you think about, you know,
what are your qualifiers, you know,
and also the balance between how much time and money
because time is money, users are spending
to try to qualify for something.
Because again, if they don't get that incentive
on the back that made it worth their time,
they're not going to continue to come back
and you just wasted that money.
So then I'll ask you an interesting question.
How this works in web two is the value of data.
How good is the data collection aggregation
in web three currently in terms of being able
to package that and monetize it?
I mean, I'm advising for a project that's
in the web three data space.
I would say like most of what you see right now
is obviously, you know, on-chain activity.
So you can look at a wallet.
You can see, you know, what's in the wallet.
You can see where is that wallet interacting,
how much are they interacting.
I think the difference is when you look
at like centralized exchanges, you know,
and things that are KYC, you know,
they're operating more on a traditional web two data set.
I think the holy grail, and I do think
it's going to happen in the next year or two,
is when you're able to start to connect web two
and web three data sets together.
Because I think at that point,
you're able to one, more effectively target,
and two, also probably more effectively able
to, you know, segment your users
into, you know, very targeted segmentations.
In order for that to happen, would you foresee,
and I don't know from either a technical
or non-technical perspective,
but more anonymity bled into web two,
whether it be through like ZK technology or otherwise,
whereby even the web two fashion,
you can still get the benefits of quasi anonymity?
If I had to guess, I think it's the opposite.
I think, you know, listen, web two companies,
they're not going to favor decentralization
they still want some level of control.
They value first party data.
I do think like going back to your ZK note,
like that to me is maybe more of the future in web three,
which is, you know, there's one data set here,
there's one data set here,
you're using ZK to basically match the data,
but neither side is being given that data.
I mean, obviously that's more privacy centric,
more, you know, personal information protective.
But no, I don't personally foresee more anonymity
because even with like the cookie deprecation that happened,
you know, with GDPR and things like that,
I mean, most of these brands are now trying to figure out,
okay, what's our alternative to that?
They're not saying, okay,
there's now a more anonymous world,
how do we effectively target and reach these people?
They're basically saying, okay,
we can't get data this way.
You know, what's our alternative way
to get the exact same data,
or at least some level of that data?
Right, so money by definition,
drives against anonymity,
because it increases the value proposition of data,
And so it would more largely leave a very,
probably just the laser eyes,
but yeah, that makes more sense
that it would bleed into web three.
And I think you're seeing that, right?
You're seeing the conversation.
You're always going to see very anonymous focused projects
like take like a tort protocol
or even like tornado cash prior
to the legal proceedings.
there is a sector of folks that are,
And I think there's always going to be
an opportunity for that stuff.
It's just, it's going to be a more,
it's going to be a more targeted user base, you know?
you know, as I think as governments
become more receptive to crypto,
the argument for anonymity
becomes weaker and weaker, right?
It's an interesting thought process
I hadn't really got into.
I haven't heard from you, Aleko,
who would probably be more
of a fidget conversation.
But what are your thoughts?
you involved any projects,
thinking about using any coins
Yo, yo, thanks for the call out, man.
But I do agree with one of the points
like view it as a gamble.
I view us like super early
in the ecosystem to a point
where it's really like it,
Like it's I was one of the early adopters
of like Pepe and Bonk as well.
Pepe on Ethereum and Bonk on Solana.
And it really just started as a joke.
why I was like even buying it.
It could be like a trending topic.
Let's see what happens, right?
it was mainly for market share.
I would say like to increase,
like a functional utility
Like in my opinion at the moment,
whether a project raises enough capital
and has enough innovation
in order to be able to offer
and functionality, that's great.
But I honestly like view meme coins
at the current moment is like
kind of just like a complete casino
during like the end of 2021,
like leading into like 2022.
people that kind of got into it early.
really just based off of like
that was really coming in
and certain projects at times.
where you could, you know,
that has hype around a project
and flip it for, you know,
like the mint price that you buy.
But it's all really just like
speculation on hype, right?
Like it's all speculation
on what's being promised.
like I guess like fictional roadmap,
not necessarily like fictional
they're not going to do it or not.
But at the point of buying,
it really seems like it's
it's just like this like lucrative promise
from a team really just on like
So I kind of view all of these things
in my opinion as gambles.
Like I see us like extremely early,
in the scene where it's almost like
including tokens at the moment,
like a full loaf of bread
and you don't really like
offer a slice before people
have to like stake their money.
I kind of view it as like
you're really just basing
your entire investment off of
that could easily just fall and crash
Like it will die down at some point
because obviously peak hype
only lasts for a certain duration,
but it'll actually slowly make a recovery
Yeah, that's kind of like
more so my opinion on just
really buying into like hype
and fomoing into some of these
and really just like Web3 trends
I believe I can't remember
but it was another project founder
in here which I'm pretty grateful
and just like have something on
chain just because like you know,
like you're you're fearing
of missing out like on the your
It's more build something
that's like actually resonates
like valuable skill set in
understanding for so for example,
like I'm starting an art project
You know, I know what they like.
I know what their you know,
that would be valuable to them
providing them files assets education.
within like a creative ecosystem.
So that's something that like
I'm personally quite passionate about.
So I'm building my project around it.
I'm not promising anything
And in regards to what it scales,
I'm not promising any I guess,
It's definitely oriented for creators
and artists that want to learn
and develop their skill sets
within somewhat of an artistic community
and connect with other talented artists
and the I guess in the web three space.
kind of just stray off topic,
but I wanted to just like share
like a little bit of like I guess
like a double edged opinion there.
I look forward to if you got anything
that you're interested in.
Feel free to pin it up top.
Otherwise, if and when you're launching,
Yeah, so the project is actually
called Stoner's funny story.
It started as a cannabis project.
So and the funny thing is, you know,
like we actually changed the image
because we did start as like a cannabis,
like almost like a derivative style project
in January 2022 and the reason why
we actually kind of like switched it
over a little bit more to rather
it was called stoner ape club before,
but we wanted to switch the name
and shift away from the apes.
And then we even rebranded
because we have like a cannabis logo
in our main brand guidelines
and stuff like that was mainly
just because like we wanted to go
something a little bit more mainstream.
Like I wanted to take the word stoners
and shift it towards like more
of a mainstream approach,
whether you're not really somebody
who's very interested in smoking
or you're like complete pothead.
I wanted to cater the brand
to like both audiences in a sense.
So yeah, it's a 3D project.
We're migrating from Ethereum
over to Solana because I feel
that Solana has a better ecosystem
to be able to interact with
after like dealing with whales
and you know, like small holders
versus people that hold upward
of like 150 NFTs in my community.
I've noticed that like building
for at least smaller communities
at the start to have like everything
equally balanced from like an experience
point of view for your holders.
that I really like I struggled with
you know, calculating gas fees
and how many times like people
are going to have to interact
with the contract and burn
So it wasn't I didn't find like
it was like the most fair
and I love the speed of Solana.
I honestly think it's like
just that chain for like underrated
builders to like create like innovation
and then yeah, it'll get eaten up
That's kind of like my thing.
So yeah, no, we have a space
I believe we invited you.
So we're looking forward to
if you have time to stop by.
I just put the pieces together.
As you said stone and I was like,
I'm doing a space called stoner's club.
And then I looked at your page
I don't want to say the bullish shit
because that's what everybody says.
But the fact that you're that you
and I've heard some other people
are actually thinking about
is I think a really good place
I don't know how many times
I want to jump down people's throat.
I just love this lot of ecosystem.
Well, you know, just the culture.
I'm like, shut the fuck up.
Like, it's so fast and cheap.
I'm like, there's a lot of fast and cheap.
Like, understand what it is
you're saying and why you're saying it.
Okay, they have a culture
That means you're going to have,
if you have, for example,
maybe if you go to a new chain
that'll encourage increased liquidity,
and allow you to curate new users
that actually fit with the types
of products and utilities
you're going to be offering.
Maybe when you launched on East,
the people that held then
are no longer the people that hold now
and they're not the audience you want.
Or maybe your product has advanced
and it just doesn't make sense, right?
In an ecosystem that moves weeks,
are properly built for the future.
to make these kinds of decisions
So looking forward to the space
and I appreciate the response.
I do have some more thoughts.
I'll go to Andrew before I do.
Yeah, I think you nailed it.
I think, again, like this
just goes back to marketing 101,
which is like, who's my target audience?
Why are they my target audience?
Where do these people live?
What's the right messaging?
I mean, that's important.
The other thing that I think
is important to think about also
And what I mean by that is
I wouldn't build on a chain purely
because I think it's a narrative
But again, you do want to take
So like the two things I'll call out
is obviously there's a huge
modular narrative right now
also doing some modular stuff.
And then I do think we're going to
also see more of a parallel
EVM narrative start to surface more.
So that's the other thing is
do you want to align with a proven chain
or do you also want to position
and kind of ahead of the curve
I think at the end of the day,
the future's multi-chain.
Most things will become an omnichain.
But these are just things
you definitely want to think about
like period projects that are like
we're going to build a game.
And so the simple question is,
okay, what's your transaction
And those are the little things
that you can look at to go,
okay, it's not that hard.
Okay, they're doing 10,000 units.
That's a million dollars.
They're built on Ethereum
and they're promising that I bind this
because they're going to build a game
and that's going to be the value.
isn't enough money to build a game
and no game is going to function
Well, why don't you choose Polygon?
It's like, do you want to spend
$500 a month on in-game transactions?
It's just not going to survive, right?
So like, no one's going to play it.
Then the question becomes,
or alternative chain are you using, right?
Like, okay, you launched an Ordinal.
Yes, Meta, this is to you.
Explain how this is going to work
And I think the other thing
just leaning into gaming for a second
is like, I don't think the winner
of gaming has been crowned yet.
I think certain chains obviously
and training and things like that.
So I think the other thing
these are GameFi enthusiasts.
They're treasure down members, right?
Whereas gamers on Avalanche
looking at the launch of shrapnel
I think, who your target customer is
so that you can really pick
the right customer base to start.
I want to go to Meta about it
have you met Panda before?
Yeah, we did a call together.
and how do you intend to navigate.
I wanted to throw in before
then two things real quick.
Luckily, you were talking about
gambling and how you accepted it.
I think the closest analogy
but I think most sane people
when they lose their money, right?
that the massive upside wins
the high likelihood of loss
But you're getting the casino,
you're getting the drinks,
you're getting the massage
you're getting the community,
you're getting the dopamine,
you're getting the excitement,
the interest to do stuff during time.
And so you don't hear like,
It's just if you can catch it
like that was really the conversation.
and then back to what I said
once we have kind of enough adoption
where there's enough eyeballs
I look forward to the day
where people are choosing chains
yes, because of the community,
but mostly because of the functionality.
you've been awfully fucking quiet.
No, I mean, I was just gonna say,
I really liked what you guys
were talking about earlier
about like finding your niche
because like all you really got to do
is find the basics with like
and learn how to read some charts
some like fibs and things like that.
If you had fibs in your charts
and looked at the daily chart
you literally would have seen the top
of that like last run right now,
It literally topped out perfectly.
I had somebody the other day
I'm not gonna say who he is.
He's a very famous person,
very wealthy and we were on the phone
I stopped and I didn't want to say it
because it's fucking obvious.
Like I'm not gonna sit here
but like the macro markets,
don't follow like a billion tickers.
You don't have to watch everything.
Watch like five things max 10
that you can know the movement of.
You can tell how those move
and according to ETH and Bitcoin
and some of these other like assets in general
and once you see how those move
and you bring some of those other things
and you know what I mean?
RSI, just some of the basics even.
It's like you can navigate through so much easier
and just make your life a thousand times
and with less risk as well.
This is financial advice.
If your friend just told you
how much money he made off of a shit coin,
you are literally his exit liquidity
if you put any money into that token.
Like this shit doesn't start here.
It doesn't start with your friend, right?
If he's the dev, you can listen to him.
where your information is coming from.
Before I go to Motivelli and Andrew,
I did want to go to Panda
as to why you chose Bitcoin
being a functional platform
for the gaming and assets ecosystem
and I just don't know any of the projects
No, I definitely appreciate it.
I started on Bitcoin, right?
Like, you know, when you consider
where NFTs first originated on Bitcoin,
but then they were popularized
the earliest on-chain degeneracy
and gambling like with Satoshi dice
again comes back to Bitcoin.
So like when we think about
how you're going to bring in
more people and new demographics
the first thing they think is Bitcoin.
You know, the easiest thing for them
to understand is Bitcoin.
But now we're in this renaissance period
where everything that existed
is now being speed run on Bitcoin.
So like, I think it's first
being able to have that addressable market.
And then in terms of like layer twos
I think that's where stuff gets interesting
where you can take people
where you have your assets on L1
and then for specific integrations,
gaming, et cetera, you know,
that can live on an L2 and L3 drive chain.
You know, I think it's just as simple
as that and then eventually
become omni chain, right?
Where like it doesn't make sense
because you're like a maxi to one chain.
It's just you have to pick
the ecosystem you start in,
which I think the best one
Just having the opportunity
incredibly humbling, you know,
I think that's the big leagues
eventually you can spill over
and things become more cross-chain
obviously like layers of yours
on like the meme coin side,
I think meme coins are incredible,
you know, for a lot of ways,
like just being able to study,
you know, people psychology,
you know, getting to know
like the players in that space,
an attention economy, right?
It's all driven by memetics
and, you know, there'll be
a narrative that comes out.
the same thing applies to memes
is like, let's say a popular meme
template starts to propagate,
then people now create the antithesis
to that meme template, right?
And now, like the same thing
It started where there was doge
and then now we're going to see
like the emergence of cat coins,
right, in this next cycle.
And, you know, that's just obvious.
But I think everyone should
dip their toes into meme coins
because they are transparent, right?
Like all these other protocols
and, you know, governance tokens
and points that people are doing,
It's all, you know, hot potato
are like just true culture, right?
They're not trying to sell you
They're being completely transparent
So, you know, I'm not saying
you should fry your neurons
but I think just, you know,
delving into it a little,
the market participants much better
and like that will allow you
to navigate in a way where it's
like if you just buy the majors
and listen to what other people
tell you, then you're really
not going to have that edge.
Like and also like Jay mentioned,
you know, checking charts.
I'll check a chart quickly.
for like specific patterns,
but I more so look for like
If it's being showed on Twitter,
the telegram groups that I'm in.
I'll do like a macro search.
I'll see if anyone's showing it.
I'll like even save telegram
usernames of like known scammers.
in this group yet, so like there's
of a specific coin and, you know,
don't just rely on like charts alone,
especially with meme coins.
Like then, you know, it's like
that's the meme is like if you're
charting a meme coin, right?
With like not enough historical data,
like then you're going to get wrecked.
It's really just gut instinct
navigate that in real time
and you have to be able to like
fundamentally analyze like that token.
You know, obviously some have like legs
And I think if you can master meme coins,
like I mean, you'll do well,
but you know, definitely don't allocate
like a large percentage of your portfolio.
Don't use unit bias where you're like,
oh, this goes to a dollar.
It's not realistic for the most part,
Yeah, just like be careful.
Use a fraction of your portfolio
for that, like a fraction.
That's a very good point, right?
Like don't just look at a coin
oh my God, if this got to a dollar
or even a cent, I would have made mom.
I would have made 20 million.
Like that's not how it works.
Like so if and this is a problem
I see a lot where you can see
like 10,000X, if you get an early,
like early, early to a CA,
you can see a million X, right?
So a lot of times I see people
who put in a buck, five bucks,
and they're like, holy shit,
I am a meme coin, shit coin, genius.
I'm gonna take all my profits
and I'm gonna hit it over and over.
That's how you get wrecked.
So even if I agree completely
with what Panda is saying,
like you can see for lessons
you can put a couple bucks
into a bunch of different shit coins
whatever your appetite is.
that you hit it as an example
of you being a master trader.
That's how you will get wrecked.
Motvelli and then Andrew.
I had no idea why I was chasing them.
I was just following the hype, admittedly.
And then I stopped completely.
So I'm actually not interested
in the trading or the coin part of it.
in the utility of the real world assets.
And I've been trying to figure out
what real good, daily, easy utility is.
And I've yet to really find it.
Because I started on Ethereum in 2018
like the promise of dApps.
oh, well, if you have a dApp
then you can use those assets
That would be the whole point.
We're in this crazy chain world
where you have to make these distinctions
about like you made the case before
about the gas fees on Ethereum,
for example, versus something like Poly.
And then how that would affect a game,
And then someone mentioned,
about being on a specific chain
And I hit the laugh emoji on that too,
because I think of these things
as utilities, not utility
but utility like the power company.
I wouldn't think like Con Edison
and that's why I want to use them.
It's just to get that thing done
And we're asking so much of users
to have to dive through all this
and understand all these mechanics.
And I just think it's so unrealistic.
And the last thing I want to add,
because I'm really enjoying the convo
and I want to listen on this one a lot.
And I was trying to figure out
where to jump in was everyone keeps saying
we're early, we're early, we're early.
we were saying that in 2018,
like how long does it take?
This is supposed to be like,
until Bitcoin is a stable coin.
Until Bitcoin is a stable coin,
But I think early is like a way
that we just forgive ourselves
for shit not happening, right?
The idea behind the potential
meaning that there could be
one token for one person, right?
And I laughed about Bitcoin being a stable coin.
But I think the answer is
until the distribution models
are getting closer to fair
in terms of token distributions globally.
just as an example of several main chains,
we're always going to have new areas
that people want to gamble in.
And even when there's full distribution
I think we're a long ways
being anywhere near done.
we have a lot of liquidity to unlock.
And while there's liquidity to unlock,
there's going to be people pretending
that they unlock liquidity for you.
Thanks for the clarification.
I guess like when you put blinders
onto the gambling aspects of the coin
Do you think that this one's
Do you think that Bitcoin
The question you're asking me is
do I think it's going to be directly
used for goods and services?
It doesn't have to be directly
like a lot of it's about the gambling, right?
But I think isn't the dream
Yeah, but Bitcoin and I'd love
to hear Andrew's thoughts
For me, my understanding is Bitcoin
it's a store of value, right?
It's arguably the best store of value,
but it's not meant to be done for
it's meant for peer to peer cash,
quote unquote cash transactions.
But it's not necessarily meant for
what we would call point of sale transactions.
That's why you have stable coins.
That's why you have things
like Ripple that are trying to.
So do I believe that Bitcoin
always been the third party
is going to be point of sales
on their on their dime, right?
It's always been a third party,
or other liquidity providers
But when you understand that,
then it's not will Bitcoin ever
the question that becomes
transacting in on a daily basis
So I prefer to use a stable coin
and then the question becomes
do I want to keep my money
that I see a better upside for.
Yes, that's one of the many dreams
it's one of the necessary steps
in the dream towards sovereignty
Yeah, no, I do appreciate that.
the marketing concepts of Web3
they're not tracking for people
like people don't understand
I don't think most people get that
and then they're left with the shit coin.
They're left with the rug.
They're left with all that stuff
and they don't see the big picture
the big potential of that stuff
and that's going to be a problem
because marketing is traditionally marketing
that you think people need
and then you can target them
and then you can communicate to them
so that they can get that thing
that you're talking about
and it completely breaks down
Yes, communication, i.e. education
like Bitcoin max and stuff.
So they haven't been super inclined
Yeah, I actually wanted to go back
but I'll hit a couple of these things quickly.
So I think from a marketing perspective
and I think I talked about this before
like you have to look at it
as two different audiences.
You have your crypto natives
and then you have your normies
and there's different channels
of traditional web two marketing tactics
They're just not applicable
I may be leveraging different strategies
and different types of targeting
but then for web two folks,
traditional web two data sets.
kind of traditional marketing activities
that's a very different user base
with a very different kind of onboarding.
Let's call it skill set, right?
In terms of the early conversation,
and I'll give you the example.
So like my I've been a marketer
when folks think of me as a CMO,
as like the kind of person
that's typically experimenting
So like I was early in digital,
and what I saw over the years
some are still not there.
There are some that can crush
but I do think like 10 to 15
tends to be that timeline,
So I do think we're still early
when we start to see more
and web three companies and technologies,
like that's when we'll start
maybe the peak of that bell curve.
In terms of like picking chain
I look at it a little differently.
I'm launching a new project,
like any web two company,
to acquire those folks, right?
if I'm launching a DeFi project,
I'm probably gonna launch it
because there's a very large
DeFi user base there, right?
where is there an active user base
that I can potentially acquire
and I think he hit the nail on the head.
as a very normie friendly chain.
I look at that as a chain
more potential for mass adoption.
founder backgrounds from Qualcomm
it's an audience acquisition
That's the place where he
that audience is going to live
that audience is going to build
and then be able to convert
it's fish where the fish are
is basically the best way to put it.
And then the last thing is
and I'll walk folks through
like the chart patterns are,
But at the end of the day,
of history repeating itself.
But one of the observations
because I'm looking at these charts,
is when there are significant
bearish events in the market,
these are kind of outliers.
knowing it's going to impact
knowing it's going to impact alts,
knowing that as market goes down,
And then once those tokens peak,
into the things that I'm more
kind of long term bullish on,
knowing that what goes down
So I think that's a good call out.
So I have like a folder for,
tied to different verticals in there.
And so it's also interesting
general market goes down,
Solana ecosystem goes up.
in terms of how the market moves
and how market movements impact,
everything from sectors to chains.
So I just kind of call that out.
which I think I did like a tutorial
is I'm a big fan of the lines.
So I'll create lines for tops.
I'll create lines for bottoms.
within a certain duration.
And then I'm always looking
there's bullish sentiment there.
There's folks buying that dip.
When I see a minimal pullback,
there's just not as much demand there, right?
So sometimes I might also
look at those tokens and say,
oh, maybe this is a long term play
if you're seeing so much dip buying here
that's driving that bottom price up,
like there's clearly a bullish sentiment here.
There's clearly a buying audience here,
So before I go to Borden,
What's your distribution?
You don't have to say crypto
versus non crypto assets,
but in terms of your portfolio,
how are you distributing?
Just my crypto portfolio.
Yes, I've talked to those before.
I mean, I tend to have two big bags.
I have one on Arbitrum and one on Solana.
And then I'm usually like,
I'll cross chain now with Hasflow between those.
And then typically what I have is,
more of like this mutual fund model.
prefer to trade a lesser amount of tokens,
but what I found is just by that diversification,
I tend to be significantly up, right?
Like when market dips on one side,
So yes, I'm not getting maybe those 100X gains,
but I'm consistently going up
and I'm consistently outperforming
the tradify market, right?
And that's really for me, my goal.
Like I don't want super volatility.
And then typically what I do is,
I do like, quote unquote, the small caps.
So anything kind of under 50 million,
I may put like 1000 USDC against that token.
If I'm looking at a large cap,
even though there could be upside potential,
there's less obviously than a small cap.
So I might put 500 into those.
So really at the end of the day,
I've got different amounts based on market cap
and then that's diversified across everything
from AI to gaming to infra to DeFi.
So in a sense, what I have is my own
crypto mutual fund, you know?
And so before Jay, you un-miked and I'll go
and then we'll go to board.
I cut my two cents back and sorry, cut you off.
I was going to say that's why I like the horizontal
and just the lines in general,
like you were just saying,
because they can really help you map out
some like lines of significance
and especially on the daily and weekly charts.
Like if you put some horizontal lines
you'd be surprised how many times
those would end up being like a heavy support resistance
just helps you make your life a little easier.
The other thing I do too is there's a website.
It's it's coingolive.com slash en slash coin
And then what I also do is,
even if I'm bullish on something like Injective,
has performed really well for me,
all sorts of tokens in there to see
how far away it is from kind of all time high, right?
So again, if something's 80% of all time high,
I may not put a big bag in there
knowing that there's more downside potential.
But then if there's a token that I discover
that's at one or 10% of all time high,
but again, I'm bullish on it.
I just look at that as like,
regardless of macro market movement,
there's just a lot of upside potential there
as long as the token didn't peak
And since you had your hand up,
I mean, this is interesting.
Andrew, but I'll go afterwards after board.
I'm interested in when you do see something
that hits those conviction,
like plays out of the park,
but we go to since first board,
So I've like some some hot takes
and regards to what we just talked about
and primarily kind of goes around
and primarily kind of goes around
the problem of marketing in this space
is we have a lot of undefined regulation, right?
what anybody says outside of this.
for a financial benefiting gain.
I think that's kind of like
that has been instilled in this industry
is the whole generational wealth thing.
That's extremely problematic in my head.
And when you're marketing to things
like to people that are looking
it's obviously a completely different rule,
completely different game
with a different rule set, right?
not having to put hashtag
adder and disclosing their promotions
or else they get into a lot of trouble.
But on the other half of that,
and this is where my butt
has with a lot of people in here,
we're marketing financial assets
to people that for the most part,
are financially literate.
A lot of people don't have
those basic financial literacy skill sets
Like a lot of people don't have that.
especially like coming from marketing
with a lot of influencers
within the crypto ecosystem,
don't know how to write a check.
And that's not even just like
throwing it out there as an example.
Like a lot of people don't
have a budget set for themselves,
to expect to make a lot of money
because they see somebody else doing it.
But the one out of the 100 people
making money, there's 99 losing.
So I think it definitely creates
But I do think a lot of it stems
from the lack of definition
for how we can actually market 100% legally.
And I think there's going to be
in the next five to 10 years
for how to go about doing that,
especially like we talked about
and figuring out what that looks like
with more cases and whatnot.
But I do believe a really big issue
that are financially literate
and not financially literate.
That's the core point, right?
Is in terms of protections is
and that's kind of similar
in what we're talking about here is
a lot of these laws were written
before we had the internet, right?
And largely risk is allocated
and the access to information.
doesn't mean that it's not a fraud.
It just means that if it is a fraud,
they can get in massive trouble.
So that deterrent likely makes it
plus the information that's filed
more likely that you have
or in gambling in general,
we're sitting there saying,
And under the circumstances,
we have access to more information
and those laws are antiquated.
But yes, cycle and cycle again,
So how do we balance the two?
I'd love to hear from Doc
only because you're new to the space.
What has been your exposure
especially because you're an attorney,
you play around in the politics space.
that you've heard from people
and wherever you heard that from?
or are you just engaging with Army?
You're literally in my house,
You're playing with my dog.
How can you not be answering?
Kabir, I've seen you up on the stage.
You haven't spoken thoughts
I'm not sure we've interacted before.
then it's my second fuck up today.
Of you two, I'm good, too.
Do you have thoughts on the topic
or are you just engaged before me?
Actually, I have got to ask.
But the reason that I kept quiet,
I thought the space is about NFT
then I heard you all talking
So that is NFTs are shit coins
In 2022, I was in NFT space too.
But due to a lot of breaks
to be trading normal project.
what did you think is the solution
just promoting the most annoying part
is the people that you think you trust
that people are in the game
they will show you a kind of NFT
It's like the market is waiting
As you enter, then everything starts to crash.
differentiate between a good market
Most of these influencers
most they don't even trade.
They are just there for people
to ask them to shield their project
and they feed them that is all.
that is promoting a shit coin
that isn't also holding allocation
So there's more under the cover
than simply showing it, right?
or quadruple vector approach
And what's really interesting,
Whether we like it or not,
the longer you've been in this space,
the more relationships you have
and the more cachet you have
the entire industry changes.
talking about this out loud,
but every phase of your integration
as you get deeper and deeper
into how the system works
of how these things exist,
what goes on behind the scenes
And we've come a long way
and a lot of it has been,
the fact that it was normal
to allow companies to come in
of a fucking token allocation of VC
and then someone not understand
that they would be manipulating
that token from start to finish,
but it wasn't common sense.
So there's definitely levels
because it gets presented
And so there are necessities
that simply are what works, right?
I was in a space yesterday
and they were talking about hype
and they're specifically talking
and grateful and dead sold out.
But I couldn't hear what last
I'm going to go to Andrew
and then we'll come back to you.
Yeah, I'll just talk influencers
So I think the key thing is
is there are different influencers
at different levels of influence.
And then there's also different influencers
influencing different verticals
with is the audience, right?
So what usually happens is,
let's say someone's launching
There are certain influencers
is shit coin lovers, right?
So that is the perfect person
But you then have to be careful
that that's the vertical,
and you potentially get rubbed.
There's other influencers
and I'll give you a couple to follow
who tend to be more focused
on things like infrastructure,
real builders, real teams.
And again, they're looking at it differently
and they have audiences again
with stronger convictions
or different kind of mindsets.
So like a couple I can throw out
Zero X finish, he's a great threader.
Dynamo Patrick, he's great
for like general crypto education, right?
And then when you look at kind of traders,
Crypto Kaduna is probably
one of the best traders that I know.
You know, a lot of these influencers
are only going to partner with projects
where they actually believe in the project
and they believe in the technology
they're sitting on a back, right?
And again, if you're a shit coin influencer,
you're sitting on your bag with intent to dump,
If you're in some of these more
kind of long-term infrastructure,
you know, yes, they're sitting on a bag.
Yes, they want to pump that bag,
but they're also quote unquote
that have done their research
and are bullish for the right reasons.
That's a really good point.
But, like, DYOR used to be a joke.
And I guess could be what I didn't fully understand
is actually you can do your own research, right?
Do they just randomly post for anything?
Then they're probably not going to be
and they're just getting their paycheck.
who tends to also hold the token?
Well, then you know at least
that you're tied to a degree.
What Andrew was saying earlier,
researching the founders,
seeing their track record,
seeing if that makes sense.
Does the amount being raised
make sense for the things they're promising?
So there are ways to do analysis
that it's not going to tell you everything, right?
The fact is money makes people
do funny things sometimes,
but at least is better than
or just spitballing into,
you can spitball into funny tickers
for meme coins and probably make a bag.
But Rome, what's going on there?
Yo, shout out to my friends
for like two and a half years.
I love supporting projects.
And I've been asked to do
a lot of representation or marketing
or tokens of that nature,
just because my enthusiasm
for the space and things of that nature.
some of these influencers
or wanted to work with me,
I started to figure out, man,
that some of these influencers
act like they have a team
that is working with them
and they all need to get paid.
the same guy running for accounts.
two years ago in February,
the bull was crazy, right?
Projects were minting out at point two.
It was just the hype was crazy.
we started recognizing people,
I can't stress it enough.
to challenge me and FUD me
the best version of myself.
the smartest person in the room.
because I want to vibe off
just to get back on topic
and I'll land this plane,
you really got to invest in people
You got to invest in conviction,
that I had to learn the hard way.
was like eight months ago,
So you start to see people
like just turn on each other
and become vultures as well.
my best advice is find an ecosystem
and invest in conviction, right?
a little bag here and there.
because you're eventually
going to become a winner.
holding this space, brother.
Always good content with you, man.
Everybody stack your bags,
that you're ready for the bull, baby,
because you don't want to start
and buy on green candles.
So do what you got to do right now,
but definitely, you know,
developers, the creators.
That's who you want to stick with, man.
And, you know, the floor prices
at some of these projects right now
or even some of these utility tokens.
BTC went down a little bit.
The dead leaves are falling.
that don't have the conviction
So thank you, by the way.
And this is not financial advice
by anybody, certainly not for me,
aren't hard plays, right?
I think I might have been
Docker speaking to somebody.
They're like, Bitcoin's dumping us.
it would go down to 37 or 33.
Unless crypto and Bitcoin
Bitcoin going back up like.
So am I going to tell you
that it's not going to go lower?
that it's going to go up?
So that's what I would advise
like my girlfriend or my family.
I agree with Rome in the sense
that this is also an opportunity to
I was speaking to somebody yesterday
who's been around as long
while the public facing space
two years in crypto Twitter.
And he's like, I think I'm done
And I went nothing personal,
but you've gotten beat up
and bruised through the bear.
Like you've learned your lessons.
to people is it's not financial advice,
to do anything more in this space,
this is a good time to learn.
we consider getting rugged
a sign of respect almost.
it's your resume in this space.
If you haven't gotten rugged,
you're going to get rugged.
It's just if you haven't gotten
And as the bull gets bigger
You're going to get wrecked.
It happens to almost everybody in space.
we don't have mass adoption.
So do you want me to talk in?
Skittles, rainbows and not at all.
Being here is doing research.
into a shit coin is doing research.
Watch it turn into nothing in five seconds.
Watch it go to five million dollars
OK, so I was quiet when you said
that it's it's not a rug pull
or it's not what was the word
that you use for your punsy.
If you know it's a punsy.
For your ex-legal clients
by these banks and subprime loans.
that they didn't understand
that they were being rugged
And I say quiet about that.
You can't really have a waiver
Yeah, I guess you could try.
You can't sue a knife manufacturer
and cut your hand on a knife.
Like that knife is sharp.
That's confusing to them.
So I mean, you can make that argument
in the mortgage company certainly did.
it's a compelling argument.
with the previous speaker
that it really inhibits mass adoption
when you're telling people
that being part and parcel
whether it's as a developer
that mass adoption is something
that's going to be predicated
on the community dealing with
the rug pools and the degens
sort of projects that we see
that have much more likely end results
of screwing over a majority of people.
Yes, it's a learning experience,
as your friend indicated,
I'm going to pull out of this
because there's other ways
that I can monetize my time
So this is why I'm in these spaces
in the midst of the first real
for the crypto world with the ETF.
And I'd certainly like to see
the ETH ETF go through as well.
And I think the success of that
is going to be either supported
or damaged by how the market
receives the ETF here with Bitcoin.
who said it was going to dip
It didn't hit 40 in November.
There's a lot to be learned.
I do think this is the future,
but we have to get rid of this
the jargon and the acceptance
We did that stuff back in the 80s
in the securities markets.
And that's why I stopped working
Shearson pumping and dumping
that they were invested in.
And as soon as the lockout period
expired, then they were gone
and there goes the market.
if you were a smart investor,
you recovered because the product
But the financial support for it
And I see the same thing here,
and the way that they got paid
was that there was no lockout period.
And as soon as the candlesticks
blew up, then they were gone
and there goes the market support.
uncomfortable conversations
And if this sort of advice
isn't valuable to people,
then really I shouldn't be here
I want everyone that's in X
but people that come in the community
So what we're talking about
is the difference between
what we want and what reality is.
one of the fundamental goals
of this space is mass adoption, right?
And so as we bring on new people,
inherently, they are less
so that what we can do the best
is create tools and ecosystems
You know I'm launching a project
and you see new L1s all the time
and we had a whole space on
Is this just a cash grab?
actually do better than another chain?
Rails requires anybody who builds
and deploys as well as node operators
So that's I believe a way
and safety in the ecosystem.
or right having laws against murder
doesn't stop people from murdering.
It punishes them if they do
and it disincentivizes them
for fear of the punishment.
So things like the Rails network
I'm focused on reputational layers.
I think all these things come together.
Enforcement, clarity, transparency,
And that's what we're doing here, right?
We can only we can educate as much as we can.
And you know that I love you
and you know that I got your back.
But in terms of the narrative,
I felt like I needed to pull you back
And the reality is you're absolutely correct.
But every emerging technology sector has, right?
Just like when they talk about Bitcoin
being used for illicit activities.
for illicit activities at mass scale
Just because this is harder
but genuinely much easier
Doesn't make it the bastion of evil.
So I want to go to Marco,
Welcome to the stage, Marco.
And then we're going to Moto Valley.
How are you doing, Marco?
Thanks for letting me up.
I just wanted to chime in
on something that Doc said.
Or maybe it's a rallying call.
is going to onboard the masses,
but in its current state,
you're very, very mistaken.
Web 2 will onboard the masses.
Now, it doesn't mean to say
it needs to stay that way.
But where we currently sitting,
typically Web 3 for trading,
total addressable market.
Now, you said it in passing,
Fidgetor, and I stay quiet.
for Web 3 to onboard masses.
Tradable real world assets,
and trillions of dollars.
Or, you know, a number of billions.
If there's locked liquidity,
what I was trying to get at,
and I'll let you continue, please,
is that I believe that RWAs,
this almost goes full circle
for the Howie test, right?
Okay, I'll just finish with that.
Marco, if you get the exception.
No, I'm not going to say,
apart from the fact that...
maybe tech them soft note.
That's an emerging technology
And on the real world assets,
What do you mean by that?
that are moving the dial forward
with regards to potentially
And any reason, Materium specifically?
So, Materium have built a platform.
He was one of the original people
at the Ethereum Foundation
And he's built a platform
So, I'm just highlighting them
as technologies moving forward.
And the other one I said,
going back to the Bitcoin
That's worth having a little look at.
Tech Tim is a partner of Moby Media.
I see them in the chats all the time.
I'll definitely look into that more.
And I'll check out the other one.
If you wouldn't mind messaging me
I'm, obviously my name is Fidgetl.
So, before the term RWAs became popular,
there was confusion as to
I see a beautiful separation
where RWAs unlocking liquidity
And I see Fidgetl's as unlocking
the experiential potential via tokenomics
and the technology as its own
really cool value proposition.
So, time versus essentially
time versus instant liquidity.
But yeah, super interested in that stuff.
metaverse is a real thing, right?
Spending with credit cards
before they became real things,
those catchphrases were where
it's like when influencers
and they find a whole new audience
I was barking in my throat.
But I do think that the RWA thing term
might lead to a lot of fraud
for newbies as like the next sector of
exploitable catchphrases and stuff.
Motivelli, what's going on?
And then we will wrap this
Otherwise, it's been another banger.
Doc, thanks for having my back, Fidgetl.
I am an advocate for this.
I want this to all work out.
if you remove the entire coin
and the gambling component with NFTs,
Web3 hasn't proven itself
to regular internet users.
And we're not early, right?
This doesn't mean these users
But they've been taking advantage of it.
They got rugged in the past for somehow
or they just simply don't trust it, right?
okay, well, what's happening
in the world of mass adoption with NFTs?
Now, remove ourselves from X, right?
Because X is its own little echo chamber.
X removed the PFPs for the NFTs.
Instagram had a whole NFT integration.
All the creators that try to market NFTs
because the comment section is just
creators getting called out
for everything that's happening in the space.
And that's the kind of thing
that we're trying to prevent,
And that's not all rainbows.
So I just want to give you a heads up.
Like I wasn't trying to battle you.
But I also think like X is its own little echo chamber
I learned a long time ago that
I'm not sure if it was a chicken or the egg,
makes every conversation combative.
And my mother reminds me of that all the time.
I'm a brook of the night,
so I'm ready to flip the birds and all that.
I will say, first of all,
I put up a tweet from Andrew.
It says, curious friends,
how are you liking this new points model narrative?
just because I'm not sure
that's actually what I think.
But the first comment says,
I like it if I retroactively get points
for every like I've clicked on this app.
So if the points have a value proposition
or are given gratuitously,
which is kind of a theory
I was thinking about them.
I think the answer comes,
have actually converted to value
I think it will come down
to how these points to token
to dollars in correlation
posthumous, so gratuitous,
whether they were current
and how the pricing plays out
on kind of the perspective on points,
as it has been on tokens.
Rome, you have your hand up.
And then we will wrap this, guys.
I appreciate the platform as always.
So my brother who was just speaking
beforehand, it is true, man.
You go in these comment sections,
I don't mean to go conspiracy theory,
the feds do have a different sector
that they're literally just trolls
shake you out of your position.
because they can't control it.
They can't even wrap their head
So that's why we're pioneers.
carrying my daughter and shit.
We're pioneers in a new frontier,
and fucking have some fun, man.
Because if you're not having fun
stop doing it immediately.
Stop doing it immediately
something that's fruitful
for you and your family, physical.
I appreciate the platform.
So I was speaking to somebody,
the following in crypto Twitter
but good money in crypto.
obviously skill sets learned,
quote unquote, regular job.
That's a great regular job.
out social media and stuff.
And I'm like, she's like,
I'm going to go look for a new job.
I need to explain this to you.
You like what you like modeling
because it's passion for you
and you found a combination
and doing something you love.
You're not going to find another job,
especially in corporate America.
work corporate America jobs.
Same thing with the crypto
I'm going to go find another job.
what people in crypto Twitter
and this goes to your room
have a lot of them that are
even reasonably successful.
which is there's nothing better
And then it's not work, right?
It follows you everywhere
and how you look at the world.
we're such freaks on Twitter
is because it's not just money.
It's not just technology.
There's world changing opportunities.
I don't mean that facetiously.
This is world changing shit.
that the Feds are fighting
why they're fighting so hard.
presents such massive change
and the pushback is always money.
So I just wanted to heart
by kind of what Rome said is
you can be successful here.
and there's more than enough info
to be able to do a lot of it
and then just be careful.
I think we're at an inflection point
in terms of real products being built.
is the year that we really see
WebTube leaning heavily into Web3
and mass adoption in the sense
You're not as early as I was
and a lot of people in this space
but you're still fucking early.
love to hear your thoughts
and then I'll stop or enter.
So I was going to piggyback
on what Rome said about pioneers
and something that Andrew said earlier
So I've been around a little while
so I've seen a few emerging technologies.
I've been a founder in them
whilst I might have been a bit down
Hope you saw what I did there
and I'll be on the bullish side.
when it comes to emerging technologies,
is the Gardner hype cycle, right?
Anyone that knows technology,
should be aware of the Gardner hype cycle.
It's a great, great roadmap
to show how technologies move
from nothing to an adoption.
because that's what we are.
as currently in the trough
Now, that doesn't mean to say
and to your point, digital,
where we are getting real
is solving those critical problems.
We will then start to move
to the slope of enlightenment.
And when we get the slope
that's when we start to get
So I just wanted to chime in
And again, I think to like recap
or I think it takes a while
will play heavily into it.
I think reputational networks
I think education will help.
The fact is there'll always be
by virtue, as I said before,
new retail into the space.
Where there's people who've taken
it's just a crypto thing.
Unfortunately, it's a retail
in these spaces to educate.
I hope that if you're listening,
I wouldn't say take notes,
but like what we're really
He goes, this is real, bro.
In the real, real DGen spaces,
which are not very interesting
because it's usually just talking
about what they've eaten for dinner.
The fact is it's pretty hard
because they're not trying to teach.
And so it's just a reality.
That's what those are for.
are really become like community.
just hang out like it's true.
They don't have girlfriends
They don't really have lives
and they like to smoke weed
But we'll never be able to stop.
Unfortunately, portions of newbies
coming on from getting wrecked.
And if you're down there below,
when we say getting rubbed
it's not just wet three, right?
Failed business, failed relationships.
I don't believe really in nature.
most of what nature gives you
The point is we by nature,
our existing our identities
of lessons and experiences.
or hopefully 10% less chance
by hearing some of this stuff
by doing some of the work.
If you're really into this space,
nobody wants to see you get rubbed
except for a handful of influencers.
And we will see you next Wednesday.
I'll be doing spaces over the weekend.
I am launching a project.
Moby Media has been supporting.
Andrew's been supporting.
I'll be in J space later on
Marco, you better fucking support
Rome or the Valley since.
Kabir and everybody else who's here.
I'll be having some spaces
with some live experiences
with the product I'm launching.
They'll be points to earn
and level up scores and codes
and free money to give away.
I'm not selling you shit.
So if you see me, put on notice.
as many collaborative projects,
If you can't beat them, join them.
have a wonderful Wednesday, guys.
And just as a final reminder
whenever Fidjal says that
nothing you hear on this broadcast
is actually financial advice.
I mean, it's not my financial advice.
endorses every financial position.
a binding legal opinion that
so you can sue Moby Media
if you cannot sue Moby Media.
And none of this is financial advice.
you know, Fidjal is simply larping here.
We only provide educational content here.
Thank you everyone for tuning in.
This has been a great one.
We got Austin from Doodles
chatting with our boy Andrew Forte.
And then we get the AI show tomorrow.
The team is really expanding their offerings.
I fucking love the J Crypto
and mind your biz on Tuesdays.
I love Andrew Forte spaces.
or you can come get educated.