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MAX IMPACT EP. 396 How Crypto is Fixing Water π§ @Oxygenchain
Recorded: Dec. 28, 2023 Duration: 1:12:00Space Recording
Full Transcription
You know, I said that Lauren's the weapon, but that's with my voice in y'all.
They can be catching.
Alright, so Oxygen Chain, I've sent you a co-host invite here and I've also DM'd you a link from
the Tregens.
Jump on the video and let's grow!
What's up, brother?
Check your DM's from the Tregens.
What's up, brother?
Check your DM's from the Tregens.
The Tregens.
I'm going to know the voice in my hand.
Run, baby, run.
I light up your path.
I'm going to let the sun go.
I'm going to let the sun go.
I'm going to let the sun go.
I'm going to let the sun go.
You'll be seated through the clouds.
I'm going to let it out.
You'll walk with no fear.
You'll talk with no fear.
Your vision will be crystal clear.
Operate.
Operate.
Operate.
Let's grow.
Did you see my DM there, Daniel?
Damn, Daniel.
Check your DMs.
Jump on the video.
Everybody, if you haven't typed let's grow in the chat, I don't know what you're doing.
We got a legend from Let's Grow Live here.
Daniel from Oxygen Chain was a host on Let's Grow Live.
Here he is.
He's on the video.
Let's grow.
All right.
Happy days.
Okay.
We're sharing this time.
We're getting it growing.
All right.
Three.
Can you hear me?
Yes, sir.
Okay, good.
Okay, okay, okay.
From the top.
Once upon a time.
Yes, sir.
There were beings who wanted to create something.
These beings who carefully guarded an aspect of consciousness called light.
At different times, these guardians of light met and worked together in the different realms of reality.
And they designed a time when their plan would go into effect.
These beings are you.
And that time is now.
And each of you knows in the deepest portions of your being that you have come here for a purpose.
You are beginning to feel what may be coming.
Hello and welcome, everybody.
Welcome, everybody.
Oh, I'm hearing some feedback there, buddy.
If you could pop on some headphones or just mute yourself on the computer.
Is that better?
Okay, you know what?
I think it's better now that I muted myself on the mic there.
Hello and welcome, everybody, to the Max Impact Show.
This is the live spaces show that is all about empowering you, the changemakers, to maximize your positive impact in the world by leveraging the latest and the greatest technology.
Okay, with me today is none other than Daniel of Oxygen Chain.
So Oxygen Chain is a baby of some solar punks, some chemical engineers, some political scientists, specialists, soil and water remediation wizards, some chemical analysis, weight water treatment monitoring, technology development extraordinaires who have created some interesting incentive mechanisms around wastewater treatment.
Shockingly, only half of the wastewater treatment around the world is actually treated.
And we're fixing the water, baby.
We are fixing the water.
Before we get into all the juicy stuff of all the great things that you're working on, I'm excited to dig into that.
I want to first start with your why, good sir.
This is a tradition that we have on the show, and that is to always, always start with why.
So I'm going to ask you what is your why.
I'm talking about your personal why, your inner drivers, your motivators.
What gets you specifically out of bed in the morning and fuels you to burn the midnight oil?
So how would you encapsulate it if you were to encapsulate into one succinct description?
What is the why of Daniel?
You got to unmute yourself on the spaces there, buddy.
There he is.
Nailed it.
But I'm hearing myself again for feedback.
Am I muted on the computer?
You got to just turn the volume off on the computer.
Okay, hold on.
I'll just do that.
Sorry about the technical issues, guys.
Thank you for your patience.
Okay.
You got it.
It's okay.
You got it.
You got it.
Okay.
So from the top, what is your why, good, sir?
Okay.
Good.
Okay.
Before I get into that, am I hearing myself again?
Are you icon hearers?
I mean, I hear you once.
Okay.
The volume is off on the computer, right?
The volume is off on the computer, right?
I do actually hear myself a little bit.
You've got earphones in the phone and the computer is volume off.
Should not be having...
Oh, you're unmuted here.
No, you should be muted there.
Okay.
Okay, now you're good.
Grow right ahead, good, sir.
Now I'm good?
I think so.
Okay.
Yeah?
I don't know.
I can still hear myself.
Hold on.
The volume is off on the computer.
The volume is off on the computer.
Okay, it's not off on the computer, I think.
Yeah, hold on.
Let me see if I can fix this.
Just mute yourself while you fix that.
No problemo.
We got this.
I know it can be a bit of a technical challenge.
Hey, by the way, this is some alpha for you relating to spaces.
Okay, Elon Musk, the Musk team, have actually announced that as of Q1 next year, potentially
January, or Q1 of next year, spaces will be integrated with video.
So we don't have to do all these magical dances of video plus spaces.
Although it is fun.
And I thought we cracked this, Daniel, but I believe we're trying different things.
So the mute button, you see volume up, volume down, completely volume up.
Either just turn it down or click mute, and then you should be good.
I think that is the problem.
The volume is coming out of your computer and into your phone.
Not good.
All right.
Let's try it one more time.
We got this, Daniel.
The volume is completely off on the computer.
All right.
Grow ahead.
I have to unmute.
Are you still playing with the volume setting?
Hey, look, a lot of people have gone through this struggle.
And the audience here, I just want to recognize that we do have Let's Grow.
Let's Grow DAO, by the way, is a decentralized, autonomous organization.
It's all about uniting and growing the regen movement.
Shout out to Let's Grow.
It's an amazing community.
Welcome, Fractalia.eth.
Welcome, Endangered Pokens.
I am very surprised about the amazing humans that are connected to be involved in Oxygen.
I did not know that Ignacio was involved in that.
Also, Marcelo.
I had the great pleasure of meeting Marcelo over in Dubai at COP28.
That was amazing.
Marcelo is on your team.
I'm very likely going to Brazil soon because of Marcelo and how he can help us navigate the carbon markets there and play mangrove trees.
So, amazing stuff.
Welcome, Mr. McGee is in the biddling.
Kawagoomba, Lumineum Vision.
Great to have you back, Carl.
Much love.
The tree gen, La Madriguela.
Oh, man.
We are having a bit of a reunion of Let's Grow.
Arg Kovlin, welcome.
Aliyoati, welcome.
Green Chain Africa and the projects.
Okay, grow ahead, Daniel.
I think we're good.
I think I'm good now, right?
Yeah.
Okay.
Nailed it.
Hey, high five on the video.
Ready?
Three, two, one.
Nailed it.
All right.
All right.
Okay, from the top.
What is your why, good sir?
What gets you out of bed in the morning?
Okay.
Okay.
I like to surf.
I have a 13-year daughter who likes to surf.
And actually, she's 14 Christmas Day.
I would like her to continue surfing without getting poison and without getting skin cancer.
Okay.
I'd like her to enjoy some fish.
I can't see everything I've seen in my long career,
all the contamination and not act.
So what gets me up in the morning, this is an invasion.
This is something that I have to do.
This is something that I'm passionate about.
I'm from Rio de Janeiro in Brazil.
Look forward to seeing you, Jimmy.
It's going to be great.
Marcelo told me all about you.
And I wish I could have gone and hang out with you guys in Dubai.
He told me all about it.
He's a great guy, kindred.
He's been with us for a long, long time.
And I can't wait to have you here in Brazil.
You know, Inacio used to, Inacio lived here in Brazil for a while.
So, in fact, I was just thinking about you the other day with one of my friends
that is looking after some trees.
And there's some beautiful, beautiful places with incredible trees.
And I plant a lot of trees in Brazil for my consulting company in the, you know, private sector.
So I look forward to introducing you to some of my friends.
And for you, have you ever been to Brazil, Jimmy?
I have not.
I have not.
Okay, I'm excited to get into Brazil, good sir.
But, okay, before we go down that rabbit hole, because that's going to be an epic thing.
And I'm very much excited to go there.
And I have not, I've just heard wonderful things and super excited to meet you, IRL, man.
It's going to be amazing.
But I want to, so you mentioned that you want to make sure that, you know,
that your daughter is not going to be poisoned in the future
and is not going to be blasted and getting cancer from the sun.
How did you then go about addressing those challenges?
Okay.
Well, if you look at the problem, Jimmy, it's misaligned incentives and lack of transparency.
And I found this out going back to my, starting on my story a little bit.
I was responsible for monitoring a big petrochemical plant.
And that's when I realized that over 60% of effluent treatment systems today
are either inefficient, non-existent, or constantly wound environmental standards.
Consequently, only half of the wastewaters in the world today is treated.
And we felt, you know, that we had to act.
And if we don't do something now, by the time my daughter reaches my age,
there won't be any fish in the water.
And it's a chronic problem.
And it's a worldwide problem.
But you feel it a lot in beautiful places.
Like when you come to Rio de Janeiro, you'll see some very beautiful beaches.
And there's some other beautiful beaches that are completely contaminated.
And so how we go about this problem, prove to our blockchain that you're complying with
environmental standards, and you'll get a reward.
But you have to prove it.
Multi-parameter sensors at the untreated waste, and then multi-parameter sensors at the treated waste.
And we just calculate.
And if you're complying with environmental standards, you'll get a reward.
It's really, in a way, it's kind of simple, but it works.
And then you create a situation where it makes sense to do the right thing as opposed to now.
Unfortunately, there's very little consequences for companies to continue to contaminate.
And there's very little incentives for companies to do the right thing.
Yeah.
Misaligned incentives and transparency.
Definitely, you know, problems that I have also set out to tackle.
I think those are really crucial ones.
And it's really cool that you're addressing that in the water space, too.
So, I'll give you an example.
Okay.
Let's do that.
You have a treatment system.
And you have a broken pump.
And you really should be using better chemicals.
But there's a cost associated with that.
Well, instead of fixing your pump and using the correct reagents, you pay a corrupt official to turn a blind eye.
And it's cheaper to pay that.
Unfortunately, that happens.
Especially in third world countries.
So, Oxygen Chain is about creating a situation where it makes financial sense to do the right thing as opposed to do the wrong thing.
Got you.
Yeah.
That makes sense.
I mean, that's an example that unfortunately, yeah, I'm sure must be fairly common.
But, okay, so, they're getting a reward.
And I assume a lot of the people who are getting this reward are going to then sell that crypto, right?
You're rewarding them in a form of cryptocurrency.
So, and this is a common thing with, you know, refri startups that are trying to give rewards.
It's like, how do you balance the sell pressure with the buy pressure?
Or how do you give incentives for people to hold on to the token, for example?
How do you manage that reward mechanism such that it can continuously generate value and, yeah, to do that incentive realignment?
Okay.
You know, that is challenging to do that.
And I think that the most important thing is to realize that everybody wants this to happen.
Everybody wants, no one wants to live next to a toilet.
So, you know, through our sponsorship program and our subscription programs, we can create enough awareness so that people will mitigate that.
But, yes, that's an issue that I'm sure you have also.
I think refis in general have that.
That's one of the challenges that we all face.
Yeah.
So, what's this journey been like for you, man?
Like, when did you set out to do this?
How have you gone about this process?
Where have you gotten up to up until this point?
And, yeah, what were things looking like at the end of 2023?
Okay.
Like you said at the beginning, I'm a specialist in remediation of soil, remediation of water, and chemical analysis.
And I started with a chemical analysis lab.
And we analyzed waste and water.
And then I got into effluent treatments, development of effluent treatment systems.
Okay.
And one thing that I realized is that the current way of measuring efficiency and mitigating impact is every month or once a week, but usually once a month,
you have to take a sample of your treated waste, and you take it to a certified lab, and it's analyzed, and you get your results back in at the quickest 7 to 15 days.
By that time, a small problem can turn into a huge problem, as you can imagine, Jimmy.
So, that's when I got into real-time monitoring.
And that's what Oxygen Chain is all about.
Real-time monitoring and validation of the efficiency, so that you can generate this reward.
And where we are right now, we have seven systems that are operating in multiple industries.
And we hope to bring that up to 50 systems by the end of 2024.
That's where we're at right now.
Nice.
So, can you break it down, some of the nitty-gritty, the details of the monitoring, how you go about doing that, and really enhancing the transparency side?
Okay.
Like I said, we have multi-parameter sensors at the treated waste, and then multi-parameter sensors at the untreated waste.
And we just calculate the difference between the input versus output.
And then that calculation generates a reward.
Basically, if you are putting β why are we called Oxygen?
We're called Oxygen because dissolved Oxygen is one of the most important parameters that you can treat.
And biocabal demand for Oxygen as well.
So, prove that you're putting more Oxygen back into the water systems, and you'll get a reward.
Phenomenal.
Okay.
So, it comes back to putting more Oxygen back into the water systems, and there's different ways of tracking that.
Yeah, and β
Yeah, the problem β the problem when you release wastewater that's very high in organic matter, it sucks up all the Oxygen.
And when you suck up all the Oxygen from the ocean or from our water, there's not enough Oxygen for life.
That's the problem.
So, really, what we need to do is put more Oxygen back into the water.
Obviously, there's many different types of waste, you know, from sewage to industrial to agricultural food processing industry produces a big mess.
We've got cosmetics, and then we've got mining.
And those have other problems and other parameters that need to be measured.
You've got to understand that the most basic one is Oxygen.
But the reward β you can't give the same reward for a system that's treating sewage as you can for a system that's treating, for example, industrial waste or textile waste or agricultural waste.
And then, of course, there's a petrochemical side, which is oily water, you know, drilling mud.
And so, that's another scale of reward.
So, the reward depends on what you're treating.
I don't know if that makes sense.
Yeah, I think so.
So, the reward depends in terms of scale.
And you have different ways of measuring that on these different categories, right?
Exactly.
To a different extent, yeah.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Okay.
Exactly.
So, you're worried about the fish dying, affecting biodiversity in regards to the water quantity that is in the β sorry, the oxygen quantity that's in the water.
And so, what are all the ways to inject oxygen back into the water?
Okay.
Well, you β Jimmy, you can't really inject oxygen back into the water.
You just treat the wastewater that's generated, whether it's generated in an industry, whether it's generated by us.
You can put oxygen back in the water by treating it.
Water already has oxygen.
Pure water has oxygen in it.
Okay?
The problem is when you β when we deplete all that oxygen and we release it into the ocean or into the rivers.
And, you know, that's β but obviously, you know, lack of oxygen isn't the only problem.
And when you release toxins, it can actually kill fish.
And, you know, that's a whole other issue as well, which is why we go β oxygen chain goes straight to the source.
Okay?
Where is it generated?
It's generated at the treatment system facilities.
Okay?
The industries generate that wastewater.
Municipalities, we generate that wastewater.
We actually have a residential program because only two out of three houses here in Brazil have basic sanitation.
So, that's another big problem.
Wow.
That is a big one to tackle.
Sorry.
I think I am still hearing a little bit of feedback.
Are you sure the volume is completely off on the computer?
Sorry.
Yeah, I'm just hearing a little bit.
Not like it was before.
It's light, but β
Okay.
Mike, check one, two.
Is it β
Okay, I think we cracked it.
We cracked the code.
I think we got it.
I think we got it.
Okay.
Nailed it.
All right.
Cool.
So, okay.
So, it's not about β it's really about minimizing the negative effects of wastewater that has not been treated,
which then affects the oxygen levels as opposed to trying to just add more oxygen.
Yeah.
There's really no way.
You can't just go into the water and add oxygen into the water.
We just β we're not really treating the water.
We're incentivizing those who are treating it to do it with more efficiency.
And the more efficient you operate, the greater will be your reward.
The greater will be your incentive.
And that's the way we operate.
So, what are the β are there incentives right now beyond this at all?
Or is it just β is it just regulation?
And then, as you're saying, some people get around that.
Well, yeah.
Right now, it's β the systems generally are punitive.
You know, if you don't comply, you get a fine.
If you keep β continue to not comply, you might lose your license.
If you persist, they might close you down for a short period of time.
With big petrochemical companies or big industries, the fines are often insignificant compared to how much money they're making.
And that's the problem.
And a lot of times, you get, Jimmy, the situation where you've got one company that has invested in dealing efficiently with their wastewater, and that has a cost.
And then their neighbor, their competitor, just releases it into the ocean untreated, and they're outcompeted.
Yeah, that's sad.
And so, yeah, so how do we drive enough demand for these rewards such that there's always a value to the reward token that you're distributing?
Is it that, like, companies can say and make some kind of claim?
Like, folks can say we're carbon neutral.
They can say we've, you know, retired this many, like, water credits.
Is that a thing?
Okay, well, there are water credits as being created as a class.
We're actually have on our own map creating our own credit class.
We're going to call them sanitation credits.
And that's going to be approximately a nine-month process, which we're starting in February.
Actually, Shama's helping us with that because he's an expert in carbon credits and creating credit class.
And so that's actually something that is being done.
Waterdow, I don't know if you've heard of Waterdow.
Waterdow was β they were actually in Gitcoin.
Yep, yep, I've heard of Waterdow.
Yeah, yeah, they're kindred, and they did pretty well.
They're also creating a credit class.
So that's kind of how it's going to happen.
Got you.
I mean, is that what the reward token β can you walk me through your tokenomics?
Like, how that works?
Is that going to become a credit, or is this a utility token?
Or is it β yeah.
Can you walk me through the details?
Yeah, yeah, sure.
It's a utility token, okay?
Okay, and we got liquidity pools with Ethereum, and so, you know, you'll be able to generate the tokens, and then you'll have a liquidity pool, and you'll be able to trade it for Ethereum or whatever.
Okay, and what's the process been like raising for that liquidity pool?
Have you gone to market makers or investors?
So far, we've been self-invested from all the co-founders, and, of course, we've gotten some money from Gitcoin, and we have a few other investors.
Yeah.
Nice.
A few other investors as well.
Very cool.
So, yeah, you've assembled a pretty awesome team.
Like I said, Marcelo seemed like an amazing human, Ignatius, and, of course, your sub, you're crushing it, and you're building this team around you and some experts in different fields.
What is your approach to bringing the right people into an organization?
I really feel like an organization is only as strong as the people behind it who are going to make it happen.
So how do you attract great people?
How do you bring them all together and create the best organization possible?
Okay.
During my career as an expert in remediation of soil and remediation of water and chemical analysis, I've actually met some of the leaders in this industry.
And so these guys, a lot of them are old school, and they love the project.
They love the complex.
They love the idea of oxygen chain.
And so this group of subject matter experts are the ones behind the boots on the ground.
I'm the, you know, boots on the ground guy.
And we, they, a lot of them, you know, it's, we had some challenging challenges onboarding some of them because we're a DAO, and they're used to the more conventional approach.
But right now we have, we, we have, uh, um, a group of subject, subject matter experts in, in, um, waste treatment field, uh, in the waste treatment field.
And then Robert, Robert Colvin, it takes care of the whole tokenomics part.
Is it appropriate for us to bring Robert on to talk?
Would that be okay?
Yeah, why not?
Come right up.
Actually, we're, we're officially at the halfway point of the show.
So, this means it's all your turn to Shim'on up.
Don't be shy now.
Don't be shy.
Shim'on up to the stage.
Tap the mic in the bottom left.
Get up here.
Get on up!
All right.
And if you have questions, if you have queries, if you have comments, we want to hear them.
I don't, I don't know which one of these PFPs is Robert.
Um, is he here right now?
Or you want to text him?
Yeah, he's R. Colvin.
Hold on, I'm going to text him.
Ah, okay, okay.
Nice.
And we got Solar Roof coming up.
Welcome, Solar Roof.
Okay, R. Colvin's here.
Oh, there you go.
The Robert Colvin.
Happy days.
Following you.
Try to follow him.
Yes, sir.
I hear you.
Okay.
What's up, Robert?
Hey, everybody.
Yeah, how you doing?
Hey, good, good, good.
Yeah, I know.
Um, um, as Daniel was saying, you know, um, we have a lot of different, uh, skill sets.
Um, of course, in this field, um, most of the people, uh, that are in the area that understand
how the system works and with these big industries are, are going to be, you know, the, the kind
of a roughnecks, uh, roughnecks, uh, so to speak.
Awesome.
Uh, sorry, David, Daniel, could you, uh, please meet yourself while you're not speaking?
I'm still hearing a slight feedback.
Go ahead, as you were.
Yeah, no, so, uh, Daniel's saying my, my, um, I'm more on the, uh, crypto side or the
tech side of the house.
I do help with some of-
Apologies, Daniel, I meant spaces, not, not the thing.
I turned the volume off the slider on the video.
Okay, sorry.
Go ahead.
Go ahead, Robert.
Sorry, I interrupt.
I do help with some of the, um, the hardware aspects of it, but primarily, you know, from
the, the, the point where sensors are coming, the sensor data is already coming in and then
making sure that it flows all the way through the nodes and onto the chain, on chain.
Um, so if you have any questions around that, let me know.
Um, outside of that, we've been running everything on Polygon Edge, uh, which is, uh, its own
blockchain or, you know, turnkey solution coming out of Polygon.
Now they're called SuperNets, I think is the new name, um, or the next evolution of Polygon
Edge.
Originally it was called Polygon SDK and then Polygon Edge.
Um, so yeah.
Um, interesting.
I haven't actually heard about Polygon Edge.
Could you shine a bit more light on that and why, uh, you decided to go with, with Polygon
Edge?
Yeah.
So, um, really initially we met, uh, a part of the team or the main team that was working
out of Serbia, uh, to build this, uh, technology.
And this was a couple of years ago and we were looking at a few different things like, you
know, Cosmos and Tendermint and some of these other solutions already out there, uh, that
people have jumped on.
Cosmos was a really good option, but we were trying to get everything to run on, um, smaller
devices.
And so the memory requirements of some of these other blockchains is a little too high.
So we're running on Raspberry Pis and we're also, um, starting to move everything across
the board from the, the traditional PCLs that come, you know, like the ones that you buy for
China that has all the, uh, monitoring capabilities and pluggable sensors, we're moving to Arduinos
for those.
So Arduinos to Raspberry Pis, um, and actually I'm testing on a Raspberry Pi 5, like right
now as we're talking.
Um, so the idea is like, uh, can we get everything to run on these devices that are much cheaper
because some of these, uh, systems and Daniel probably can give you a better idea, but I believe
the, like a Mitsubishi, uh, make manufacturers, some of these, uh, components for, uh, these
large facilities and, you know, they, they can run $250,000, uh, for, for some of these,
uh, equipment.
So obviously what we want to do, not just from the, you know, Hey, is your pool liquid?
Can we get, uh, people in and out, you know, as far as being able to pay them, but also can
they even get on board to begin with?
Like, how do you get people or systems, right?
A system owners to onboard it, uh, with the least amount of resistance possible.
And so the first line of defense is bringing down the price so that they're not like, well,
you know, we can't even afford to make that move.
Um, so that's kind of what we're focused on right now is that first line of defense.
How do we make it so cheap that it's, it becomes very easy for them to just add this onto their
existing systems and start to make the improvements needed so they can get the maximum reward for
the system already in place.
And then we can talk, you know, awesome.
Yes.
Uh, Mr.
Oh, did you want to time in there, Daniel?
Yeah.
I just want to say, yeah, and Robert's working on that, um, on, on his end and on, on, on my
end, we're working with Chinese, uh, collaborators, uh, um, to develop, uh, a very inexpensive systems
for our upcoming, uh, for the favela projects, favela or shanty towns, shanty towns are a big
problem, Jimmy, here in Brazil.
So, and they, they, they're responsible for a lot of, a lot of the contamination of the,
of the beaches.
So we're, we're creating, uh, um, uh, uh, oxygen ready treatment system that can go into
these shanty towns with, with sponsorships from the governments and from, uh, homeowners
associations.
So of course, no one wants to live next to a toilet.
So, so we're coming in strong with this.
Actually, I'm going to, uh, favela Vigigal here in Rio tomorrow to, to talk with a representative.
Uh, and the thing is, the nice thing about these small systems, Jimmy, is that they're
going to be revenue stream.
So they're going to be taken care of.
And that, you know, we, oxygen chain doesn't care who owns these system on who operates these
systems, as long as it operates and proves to our blockchain that they're, that they're
doing its job of not dumping sewage into the ocean.
And so that's, that's kind of our kindred, you know, a project that we're working on
right now.
And, uh, shanty towns all over the world, especially in third world countries are responsible for
large, large amounts of contamination.
So yeah, we're working hard on that.
That's another thing that's getting me up in the morning right now, this, uh, upcoming
project, which I'll be happy to show you when you come to Brazil.
Looking forward to it, buddy.
And yeah, no, I, I've heard about, so, um, in Kibera, that's Africa's biggest slum.
It's actually in Nairobi, Kenya.
Um, I was speaking with a guy, um, who actually met in, in Dubai who, um, came through there
and he had this like river cleaning initiative because yeah, like by those, by those slums,
there's, there's a lot of pollution that flows into the water systems and it can get
pretty bad.
So I can only imagine what that must be like by the, um, by the slums over there.
And, um, so is the idea that this will get treated and then become a water that will be
reused for other purposes?
And if so, is that like for agriculture or, um, you know, human consumption?
That's a good question, Jimmy, the quality of the water that, uh, that is, um, released
from the system depends on the necessity that, that each individual, uh, company or factory
or person has.
It's, it's very possible to make, in fact, the project just came out in California where
they're turning sewage into drinking water.
It's quite possible.
You just have to have an extra phase at the end of the system that makes the water appropriate
for, for drinking.
Uh, if you are in a steel mill, for example, and you need to, you need the water to go back
in for a cooling.
Well, then you, you, maybe you don't need it as, as, uh, as clean as drinking water, but
you do need it within a certain parameter.
Uh, if you, if, if you're in the cement processing industry and you're, you're treating
and you need water to, to produce cement, it has to be a certain way.
So it's, it's, it's, we have tech out there today, Jimmy, that can, uh, that can, um,
bring water, take water to any quality that you want.
It just, it just depends on what, what do you want to do with it?
In this particular case, you talk about the shanty towns.
We just want the water to have enough oxygen that you can put it back into the ocean without
having a big problem.
I think, um, and if I can just add ultimately, Jimmy, um, yes, the goal is to get the highest
quality water possible because the incentive system, the way we have the incentive set up
is that the more parameters you have in your system and the better those, the outcomes are
of the readings on those parameters from input to output, the higher the, the oxygen rewards.
Um, so you can imagine that if, if we can move the needle in that direction, initially,
of course, Daniel's right.
Initially, we're going to be trying to work with existing system owners instead of trying
to, you know, go through the process of installing new systems easier to onboard existing.
Um, yeah.
And of, and they'll have certain requirements that they just want to meet.
But as we move that needle and the rewards get, we get more and more of an ecosystem in
place, um, where we've got the funds available to increase the, the rewards, then obviously,
um, that's, what's going to hopefully happen.
We're going to see much better quality coming up systems.
Let's grow.
Love it.
Um, yeah.
Thank you for, uh, let's doing the walkie talkie with, with the mic there, Daniel, but,
uh, we got Mr. McGee up here.
What's growing on, Mr. McGee?
How you doing?
How you been?
Question, queries, comments, the floor is yours.
Yeah, as always, thanks for having me.
Um, I would suggest looking at using the DeFi tools available to us to give value to
cleaning water long-term.
The power of compound interest is remarkable.
$50 into an account that yields 10%.
Over 100 years, you'll put over a half a million dollars into something.
We're talking about building stuff for our children and our grandchildren, clean water.
Uh, these small acts of generosity today can lead to huge influences on the future markets.
So, thank you for doing what you can to make these systems work.
Hopefully, we can get people supporting you, uh, and, you know, not only buying coins, but
helping creating liquidity, uh, and even locking some of it away permanently to create permanent
demand for these kind of works.
Boom.
Boom.
Yeah, thank you.
That's, that's, um, awesome.
Love it.
Yeah.
Love, love hearing the support.
And, uh, yeah, when, when new problems and solutions are, are proposed, I mean, I didn't
even know the extent of this problem.
Um, so thank you for coming through and, and shining more light on it, Daniel.
And, uh, you know, and, and yourself over there as well, Robert.
But, uh, so half of all of the wastewater that is produced in the world is not treated.
So, like, I don't even know what that, it must just be this absurd amount of water.
Like, have you, do you know rough figures, what that looks like, what that equates to
into something that we can understand?
Okay, let me, um, first of all, there's a huge difference, Jimmy, in, in how different
countries deal with their wastewater from countries like, um, Japan, on top of that, uh, Robert
and I were in Japan a couple of years back and Japan, the whole culture recycles, they
treat all of their liquid waste and they, they, they treat all of their solid waste, all of
their solid waste is turned into energy.
And all of their liquid waste is, is, is, uh, used, treated with the technology that we
work with too, which is catalytic oxidation, which produces no by-product at all.
And then on the other end of the spectrum, you have countries like Haiti that doesn't treat
one single cubic meter of its own waste.
I mean, the Caribbean's turning into this big toilet and, um, it's, you know, uh, it's
a huge, it's a huge problem.
So that, that there's a huge, you know, uh, um, discrepancy there worldwide, uh, with third
world countries, obviously being, being the most responsible for, for the most.
Uh, and it's, it's, it's very sad that we, um, we, you know, we can get, get the world
together and rally behind, um, weapons, but we can't get the world to rally behind helping
a country like Haiti have basic sanitation.
I mean, you go to Haiti and you try to help them and they, they basically say, look, yeah,
do whatever you want.
Just don't ask us for any money because, you know, we got enough problems with earthquakes
and our, our, um, healthcare was bad before COVID.
So sorry if we're, you know, polluting, uh, there are other big problems.
So yeah, that's a huge problem.
Yeah.
Wow.
That is, uh, so, so yeah, in those, in those cases where the money isn't really always there,
they've, they've got to use it for different things and they have all kinds of different
challenges.
If you can just come in and, and incentivize, I mean, do you, what, what, what, what, what,
what percentage of the costs do you think could be covered by these incentive mechanisms?
I mean, I'm sure that it'll, it'll vary as the token price varies, but you know, what
are you forecasting in, in terms of trying to get stack as many incentives as possible?
Have you, have you run that, that kind of percentage?
Yeah, I, I, I, yes, yes, we have.
And one, one thing I'd like to bring up is the oxygen chain foundation, a nonprofit out
of Florida.
And, um, what we're going to do is have projects as well as incentivizing, um, companies to
have the most efficient treatment system possible.
We want to help clean up some of the mess that already exists.
Like I mentioned, I'm into remediation of soil and remediation of water, and that includes
actual new systems.
And that's one of the, uh, you asked, uh, you know, about our tokenomics.
Basically, if you, if, if, um, the example I used before, you know, you, you, you're a small
industry and you have a large operating costs.
You need a pump.
You need to fix your pump.
You can't afford it.
Well, submit a pro your project to the oxygen chain foundation.
If it gets approved, we'll, we'll fix your pump for you.
And you can pay us back with oxygen tokens.
Plus, you know, percentage, you've got to keep the lights on.
And once, once we get enough, um, in, in that pool, maybe we can tackle, uh, some basic
sanitation problems.
And, you know, uh, Robert's creating this, um, directed sponsorship so that you, you know
that the sponsorship that you're putting into oxygen chain goes towards that system, which
you want to benefit.
You want to sponsor.
So you have an apartment in Ipanema or Copacabana and Leblanc, and, um, you want to sponsor the
treatment system that is going into the Vigigal favela, which is dumping waste.
Well, you, we, we, we, you want to make sure that, that, that, that, um, uh, that sponsorship
goes towards that system where we're creating a mechanism for that.
Um, so yeah, it's, uh, it's a big problem.
We can't tackle it all at once, but if we can just do, Jimmy, one system at a time, one problem
at a time, one beach at a time, and, you know, we, we can make a big difference.
That's, that's how we do it.
You tackle a big problem just one at a time, which is why I love the, the idea of decentralization.
I've always felt that even before I knew what blockchain was, Jimmy, I believe that big
environmental problems are better solved through decentralization.
It's much better to have 50 small systems than two big ones.
100%.
Couldn't agree more.
Solar Roof.
Richard has been, been very patient with his hand up.
What is growing on, Richard?
Oh, hello, hello.
I'm happy to be here, uh, to, uh, you know, look at this, uh, this issue, uh, which I think
is so, of course, fundamental, um, and, you know, my background, maybe I can say for, uh,
for your guests, uh, probably don't, uh, know about, uh, solar roof technology, um, but I'm,
I'm in a, um, regenerative, uh, environment design and, and that, that includes, uh, you
know, water and sanitation and food and energy.
So in other words, uh, you know, a whole, uh, life support system, uh, that can be off
grid and, um, that is regenerative.
And, you know, one of the issues that we, um, that we see with human waste is that it, you
know, all organic waste should go back into an ecosystem and, uh, you know, inevitably,
uh, waste, uh, becomes, uh, you know, food, like all waste is food for some living system,
right?
So, um, the waste that we're concerned with here is food for bacteria, the bacteria producing
the colloids that become, uh, food for the plants, right?
And a lot of our problems here, when we do treat, let's say we even treat with good organic
practices, right?
In other words, there, there's two basic approaches to, uh, waste treatment, whether it's animal
waste, human waste, or just, uh, biomass.
Um, you have the physical chemical methods and that's what we've been practicing in the West.
And, and that's, you know, started, uh, with, uh, sewage and, uh, well, actually kind of
didn't start exactly with the sewage, right?
Because that was, uh, you know, the original formula was, um, dilution, right?
Dilution is the solution for pollution.
This was from the very beginning because everyone thought that the world is so big and human beings
are so small and when we had, uh, you know, 1 million, uh, 1 billion population, it wasn't,
uh, wasn't so bad.
But then now, of course, we realize that that won't work.
Um, so therefore people became concerned about the treatment, as we say.
So the two basic treatment, the physical, chemical, and then the biological, well, the problem
is they both have problems.
The biological people think the biological is the answer, but, uh, you know, what you
get is a super nutrient, uh, that comes out as effluent from, uh, biological waste treatment
that can be, uh, even the anaerobic, right?
Anaerobic waste treatment.
And then I lived in Norway, you know, a few, a couple of years and, and they're world leaders
in this and that's where, you know, my technology was, uh, received, uh, because the concept was
that those, uh, that those, uh, organic colloids could, could be metabolized by growing crops,
by growing plants, not necessarily food, right?
So we have this issue.
Do we use, uh, you know, human waste into the food system?
Um, and one of the concepts is you do it indirectly, you know, so that you don't get a complete,
uh, linkage.
And the real reason is pathogens, right?
The, in, in, uh, in, in, in these, uh, bio biological systems, you have to be, uh, very
concerned about, uh, pathogens.
Um, but then there's the, uh, oxygen, yeah, the, the biological, uh, oxygen demand.
Um, and, uh, the problem with this is that even if there's a zero biological oxygen demand,
um, there can still be eutrophication.
What does that mean is that, um, the, uh, after you have the waste treatment from anaerobic
treatment, let's say that there's a zero biological demand, uh, oxygen demand.
Um, and yet the colloids are very miscible.
They, they flow in the water table, uh, so the effluence can get into the rivers and the
lake.
And these are super nutrients.
So you get algae bloom, algae bloom results in, uh, results, results in, um, a dead, uh,
biomass.
And that's, uh, creates a biological oxygen demand and you get these, these dead zones.
Um, so this can, the dead zones, uh, you know, offshore and in our lakes and rivers and offshore
and the ocean and, uh, in the, uh, sea, this can still happen with, with fully treated and
biologically treated waste.
Um, so there, there is still, uh, issues here that need to be resolved.
Hmm.
Yeah.
Anyway, so, uh, just as a, you know, further background on that, this is a real, um, uh,
intro, you know, this is a fundamental, uh, human, uh, problem.
And as our guest said, we put, uh, you know, vast, uh, energy into weaponry and, and whatever,
and so many other parts of the economy.
And we don't look at this fundamental issue.
It's been with us from the beginning of time.
How do we, uh, you know, how do we live, uh, in a clean, clean environment, right?
A safe and healthy environment.
And, and, uh, how do we deal with, with waste product that have, uh, pathogens and have,
uh, certain, you know, definitely dangers, um, in terms of how we deal with this.
Yeah.
And I'd like to add that, you know, we're always looking for, um, other participants, uh,
that bring their own solutions to the, to the table, because there's gotta be, uh, better
and better systems out there that are trying to laser in on, um, viable solutions that
actually make a difference.
Yeah.
Can I, can I, yeah.
Um, I'd like to add, um, fantastic.
It's great to hear another kindred soul who, who understands, um, treatment systems.
And, uh, what Robert's saying is correct.
Actually, um, a good system for me doesn't just use one technology.
It uses a combination of technologies depending on what you're treating.
So, so when I'm designing an effluent treatment system, I, I, I take a sample of the untreated
waste and I analyze it and I see what I need to treat.
And then I designed the system composed of a group of, of technologies working together
in harmony to reach your desired results.
And just to clarify, we don't only monitor for, um, biochemical demand for oxygen, dissolved
oxygen.
Actually we're, we're capable of monitoring real time up to 45 different parameters and
except it can be expensive.
So you have to kind of, you know, pick and choose a little bit.
And of course the reward depends on, on, on what you treat.
You're absolutely right.
Just putting oxygen in isn't enough.
Like I mentioned, Jimmy, that there are toxins that can go in.
And even if, even if you have a clear effluent, um, it can still be very, very harmful.
You know, uh, it's, uh, kind of like radiation just because you can't see it doesn't mean it
won't kill you.
And that's, that's very, very true of wastewater.
Now, uh, what, what oxygen chain is all about is total transparency.
We mentioned before, there's a transparency problem.
And once, once we have enough dots on the map of, of systems that are efficient, others
will start looking and seeing the rewards because you can see how much rewards were generated.
And so you have, um, uh, uh, if you have a, an inefficient system and you know, all the
systems you mentioned, you know, biological anaerobic, they're, they're, they're all great,
but they all have problems.
I mean, a biological system is, is great, but it's very delicate.
You know, you, you throw in some chlorine in there and you can kill off all the bacteria
and then it won't work.
So once, once, um, you, you have that level of efficiency, other, other system owners will
start looking and saying, Hey, why is this guy getting so much of a reward?
Maybe I'm going to go in, maybe I'll get his system.
Um, I, I like to work, uh, and actually I'm developing with my subject matter experts.
I have, um, you know, an atomic physicist and a couple of chemical engineers and a couple
of physicists that are working together, um, to develop this, um, OCA system, which is,
um, heterogeneous catalytic oxidation, which oxidates.
And that is very, very, um, good for heavy metals and any wastewater with high organic matter
or with metals, but it doesn't work by itself.
You have to have a polishing agent on the other side.
Um, you can, you can use reverse osmosis, although I don't like reverse osmosis.
Reverse osmosis is used a lot in treating leachate from landfills.
Uh, problem is it produces, it, it itself produces a concentrated byproduct, but then it's very,
very difficult because it's blocked.
So it's very difficult to treat afterwards, but it's okay if you use reverse osmosis, uh,
just as a polishing agent, um, and to create that, uh, result.
So anyway, thank you.
I'd like to respond.
Um, actually, I, I do have a, um, a question and, and, um, and really a proposal as well
about, um, um, utilizing a biological process, which is, uh, and I think you, you probably know
a lot about this is the, um, the black soldier fly larvae, uh, type of, um, waste, uh, especially
for human waste, uh, disposal.
Um, it's a very, I find this very interesting and with a friend in, uh, Chicago, who's been
in that, uh, you know, domain for quite some time, uh, we created what we think could be
a, a, a very, uh, exciting kind of solution, uh, for, um, uh, the, uh, you know, uh, well,
most of the world or a lot of the world, as you say, has, uh, very limited sanitation.
So in, in, in some places, uh, it's almost nil, especially like in slums and so on.
So, you know, we thought about creating this environment, which we call SaniPod.
And it's basically a community toilet, uh, but it, uh, but it functions with the black
soldier fly larvae, uh, for the solids and for the liquids, you know, which, you know,
fundamentally I think should never be mixed.
And I do think one of the real problems is putting human waste in the water system in
the first place.
I think that should never happen.
But anyway, so that's a question.
Would, would you like to look at something like that?
Because we have, um, we have that under development and, um, my friend is actually working with the
National Science Foundation in the U.S.
towards this solution.
Um, yes, I would love to take a look at it.
Um, and, um, there are lots of, uh, grants out there available for, for that kind of research
and development.
So, uh, let, let's have a conversation outside of this, uh, and let's talk about it and see,
um, see how this behaves.
Um, there, there are a lot of technologies that, um, and some of them even work.
It's not just, they have to make sense financially as well as technologically.
There are some, uh, it, it, otherwise it's, it's just, you know, that, uh, unfortunately
there are these great solutions, but then they're too expensive or the operating cost is too expensive
or they're too fragile.
It's really difficult to get, you know, sweet spot.
Um, yeah, there's also depends on like Daniel was saying, you know, um, some have a very
limited space.
So the technology might have to fit within a certain space because we've talked to oil
platforms, for example, you know, trying to treat their heavy mud.
So those, those kinds of things come into play, all different parameters, obviously.
Right on.
Okay.
Well, it is time for some wise words.
Um, before we conclude this space, Daniel, I want to give you the floor to share anything
that you want to share and share some words of wisdom with the wonderful people who are
tuning in today.
I will share with some of the best words of wisdom that I've learned recently.
And I learned it at the Gitcoin realm.
And that is, let's grow.
Let's grow.
This is so wise, you know, it might seem super simple, but let's, let's is a key part of
that, right?
Um, it's not, it's not about one of us there.
There is no single individual or even organization that can solve these gigantous problems that
we're talking about here from the water crisis to, uh, you know, pollution and, and, uh, you
know, the climate crisis as well.
Um, it takes all of us.
So let's, let's grow.
Yeah.
Let's grow.
I, I didn't just say that to compliment you.
I believe it.
I think it's, uh, let's grow just really, really, um, you know, speaks to the, the way, the way
that refi should be, that we, we, we, we need to grow together.
We need to do this together.
It's a big problem.
We're all dependent.
And, uh, and I, I think these, that, uh, these projects are great that are coming out in
danger tokens, uh, tree gins, you know, um, watered hell, uh, uh, you know, the measure
reef who I've, I'm collaborating with and all of that.
And this really, they just, we just need to keep growing.
Like you said, keep growing, baby.
I love it.
That is, uh, a great place to end, um, but, uh, not, but it's an end.
Uh, oh, we got, sorry, guys, trying to come up here.
All right.
We were just concluding.
Yeah, go ahead.
You want to, you want to say, I just wanted to, to, to, to left some words also.
Uh, I've been working with, uh, with Daniel and, and Robert for, for some time.
And it's, uh, it's also amazing to see, like, for example, here we are in the European side.
We are, we are from Portugal and we are already adapting their, their technology of, uh,
uh, for, uh, catalytic oxidation.
And one thing that's, uh, that's really, like, uh, it was amazing for us.
Like no one in Portugal is using this type of technology.
Like every, uh, gas station that we go, every hotel, every laundromat, no one is actually
recycling.
So, uh, we don't need to focus on, on things that doesn't exist right now.
Like for example, the part of treating solids.
Uh, but I believe that just starting by these like simple things, uh, all of these business
that are not actually recycling that water will be amazing and, and already a huge part.
And, and thank you guys for, for sharing the technology and also, uh, for us to start
this, uh, in, uh, in a new European journey, I guess, at least in Portugal, because we are
not using to, to recycle that type of water.
Let's grow.
Love it, brother.
Uh, oh, are you trying to talk there, Daniel?
You're still muted on the spaces.
Yeah, go ahead.
Oh, did you see that one?
I see your mouth moving on the video, but you're not on the space.
Okay.
Yeah.
Go ahead.
Go ahead.
Okay.
Can you hear me now?
I just want to thank, uh, to thank Enrique for his kind words and, uh, we're, we're actually,
um, into Portugal and, uh, that's, that's, um, very, very kind.
Thank you, Enrique.
Thank you, Jimmy.
No worries, mate.
Let's keep growing.
Let's keep growing, baby.
And, uh, and growing so many things, right?
You're growing nature as you regenerate it.
You're growing community, which is absolutely essential.
We're growing the movement.
We're growing these public goods funding ecosystems.
We're growing many, many things together.
Um, so thank you for being along for the journey, Daniel, for being along for this Let's Grow
Dow.
You were there for the, the Genesis of it, and it's just going to snowball and snowball.
By the way, I don't know if you guys know about this, but in a two week period on a brand
new account that is at Let's Grow Dow in two weeks, we got more listeners than Gitcoin did
the entire year.
Matter of fact, we got 52% more listens than Gitcoin did for the six, 365 days they've been
going, they got hundreds of thousands of views and we, uh, of followers.
We, it's a brand new account.
That is the power of community of everyone coming together and putting their hearts and
souls into building something like Let's Grow.
And, uh, and yeah, it's just gonna, it's just gonna continuously grow.
Uh, and we're gonna get more and more massive distribution partners.
I mean, it's, it's both decentralized inputs and decentralized outputs as we distribute what
refi can really do for the world, uh, to the masses.
So thank you so much for coming through, everybody.
I love each and every one of you.
Um, and I hope you have a wonderful rest of your holidays.
And, uh, until next time, friends, keep doing what you love, keep spreading love, and make
an impact.
I'm gonna end on a song here.
And this is by Lost Frequencies.
Sky is the limit.
Um, and, uh, yeah, if you think you've reached the limit, keep reaching, baby, because you're
probably not up at the sky yet.
All right?
Boom.
Boom.
Boom.
Boom.
Boom.
Let's see some hearts.
Let's go on and seize the day.
Fall no matter what they say.
The sky is the limit.
Just reach out for the stars.
For all that you wanted.
Inspire the way you are.
We can make it happen.
This is when we start.
Because nobody's perfect.
We all have our stars.
Let's go!
Let's go!
Let's go!
Let's go!
Let's go!
Let's go!
Let's go!
Let's go!
Let's go!
Let's go!
Let's go!
Let's go!
Let's go!
Let's go!
Let's go!
Let's go!
Let's go!
Let's go!
Let's go!
Let's go!
