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Measuring Impact in a Unified Superchain Ecosystem
Recorded: June 11, 2025 Duration: 0:59:49Space Recording
Short Summary
In a recent Twitter space, industry leaders discussed the evolving landscape of Web3 conferences, emphasizing the importance of strategic partnerships, the shift towards intimate networking events, and the need for projects to adapt to changing market dynamics. Key insights included the impact of partnerships on growth and the necessity of meaningful connections for long-term success.
Full Transcription
Music Thank you. Thank you. Music Thank you. Thank you. Good morning, good morning.
It looks like we have almost everybody here,
so we can go ahead and get the Twitter space started.
I'm Nick.
I'll be your host over here at the Ancient Age space,
where we'll be discussing in real life
conferences and the impact that it has on the ecosystem, including your product and
company.
So before we do that, we'll go ahead and do some introductions.
I'll go ahead and start.
I'm Nick.
I'm the BD over at Ancient8.
Been in the Web3 gaming scene for a few years now.
I do see some familiar faces, so great to see some of you guys.
Great to meet some of you guys as well.
And we can go ahead and just go around the table real quick, some quick intros and then we can hop into the topic I'll go ahead
and start off with Medicaid how you doing yeah good afternoon everyone I'm
Russell the CEO and founder of Medicaid our main account is up here today as
well yeah we've been building in the gaming space in Web3 for two and a half years in the public domain.
Started on ETH and moved over to base, which was a great decision.
And yeah, we're fully built, fully docked team.
Loving the kind of shift in gaming right now.
A lot of big studios leaving the space, leaving a lot of market share for some of
the other builders to pick up on and drive forward so uh yeah very eventful in our category and um
this is a great topic today as well so looking forward to dive in absolutely russ great to have
you here uh i believe i met you at eath denver as well so it's great to see you up here as well
again brother. Yeah yeah
good yeah how you doing? Yeah I do remember now actually. I'm doing good man I'm doing good good
to see that you guys are still building and you know still paving the way in a sense. Yeah absolutely.
All right we're gonna go ahead and pass it over to Openloot. How you doing today brother?
Good good guys so Openloot is a web3 gaming platform uh we have seven fantastic games
uh right now we just made an announcement with finance live and we'll have a couple
more announcements coming out very shortly so definitely stay tuned
awesome sounds great and is that uh thomas behind the account it is not who do we have
behind the account today open loot i've been behind the open? It is not. Who do we have behind the account today?
Openloot.
I've been behind the Openloot account.
I apologize.
Or do you not want to say?
It's Ryan, but I don't think it matters.
No, no worries.
Yeah, absolutely.
Just asking.
But it's a pleasure to have you up here, brother.
We can go ahead and pass it over to FLB.
What's up, guys?
Here for Orderly today. yeah really just uh joined recently on
the ecosystem side of things and looking forward to uh to chatting absolutely great to have you
up here flb it's a pleasure to meet you likewise we'll go ahead we'll go ahead and pass it over
to adam as well good morning brother how you doing today gm guys yes good to see you good to see you guys
so adam here i've been in the space since the ico mania of 2017 and never looked back so just
rolling out an agentic crm for x space hosts so capturing all your listener data transcriptions and also a pretty cool
ai dj that you can deploy as an agent in your space to just get you know the audio quality
up to the next level for those musical interludes pleasure to have you up here ryan or adam i
apologize that's that's pretty awesome man i'm tired of hearing the same boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop. So that's absolutely awesome. We'll go ahead and pass it over to our last
guest. Please correct me on your name. Is it Sheik? Are you here, brother? It says speaker
on my screen. It might be glitching on my end from Twitter spaces, but no worries. We can go ahead and start off with a topic then. I apologize.
I'm still getting the coffee in my brain right now. I'm on the West Coast, so we're getting this
going a little bit, but we'll go ahead and start off with the first question here, which like I
mentioned, we're talking about conferences here and the impact that they have.
We've had tons of conferences over the past few years.
I know that we've seen conferences have a lot of attendance and a lot of impact certain years
and also certain years that be really, really slow, right?
So I really want to discuss the impact that it has on us because I'm sure we've all been to conferences,
whether it be by ourselves representing our companies or buying a booth or even sponsoring a side event, right? There's a couple of ways that we can be
involved. And so I'm curious to hear you guys' thoughts on what success looks like at a Web3
event, right? As mentioned, we have booths, we have side events, we have a lot of networking
opportunities, a lot of marketing campaigns as well. And I'm very curious to hear you guys'
thoughts on what you find would be a successful conference for your company we can go ahead and do a raise of hands uh and if not i can
always go ahead and call on some people beautiful ruts yeah absolutely i know that you guys had
um speaking you know um speaking i can't even think of the word but you guys spoke at uh
at eat denver so definitely would love to hear about that as well yeah sure so when I saw the lineup of questions I was like
how am I not going to be like the grumpiest person in crypto today um because um yeah events are very
polarizing um if we take ETH Denver for, it was great because we were being announced as a global partner of Coinbase.
There was a absolute reason for us to be there amongst other private meetings.
But from a project and a founder's point of view, and a lot of us are spending hard earned money to go to these events.
And we're obviously going there with a particular reason, particular meetings.
And we're obviously going there with a particular reason, particular meetings.
I would say the bulk of the results and the ROI come from what happens outside the events.
We're obviously going there to congregate with key people we want to meet, whether that's influencing individuals, VCs, technical partners, whatever it might be.
I think the main events are good for people looking to educate themselves in
the space, absolutely. Whether or not it's a solid ROI for projects, I would definitely lean on the
side of no. I think there's an opportunity to disrupt the event space in crypto now. I think
people are starting to try different different setups
i can't for the life of me understand why some of these things aren't tokenized or there's
something beyond gating going on i think there's a massive opportunity to really double down on
making these events far more engaging and unfortunately we've been to a number of them I thought ETH Denver was good
I think a number of the Asian events are very good but the main events always suck for project
founders and teams so polarizing I know but we stay away from main events we do a lot of side
events and we do a lot of private meets and that's where for a project we get our value for people getting
involved in the industry those main events are great because it's just one big two to three day
education absolutely i appreciate that russ i think i can completely agree with you right the
main conference is being very good on the educational side even kind of seeing what's going on
in the industry i saw your hand back up.
You want to keep going, Russ? No, I've got a funky hand at the moment. It goes up, it goes down.
It's not me doing it either, I don't think. Oh man, that's just Twitter, man. No worries,
no worries. But like I was saying, yeah, conferences are really good for keeping up with the trends and keeping yourself educated, like you mentioned. I've been to a few conferences, more on the gaming side.
I've been to GDC a few years.
I can definitely say the side events are the great opportunities to make connections and kind of move the needle forward.
But behind the scenes, right, as opposed to big marketing campaigns or anything along those sides.
So I completely agree.
And I appreciate your take, Russ.
I'm going to go ahead and pass it over to Adam,
and then we got FLB.
So I'm with Russ on this one.
I totally agree that the – I can't believe I've actually spent money
on the conference, the actual main event before.
It's just – it's all about the side events and private meetings
and parties or whatever.
But definitely there's enough going on.
And yeah, there's some lack of imagination, I guess.
I think it kind of was a bit of a gravy train,
the conference circuit for a while.
And so in some ways, I think the organizers
have just been kind of milking
the industry and it's it's it's it's kind of i don't it's not it's not sustainable i don't think
it's gonna i don't think it's gonna continue so um i mean you never know but like and they're
pivoting into ai now right so token 2049 is doing the super AI next week, which will be I'm not attending, but, you know, interesting to to get a sense of how how that plays out as well.
But, yeah, it's it's it's. No, also ETH Denver, I hit ETH Denver in 2022.
I hit ETH Denver in 2022 and frankly like it was it was for me it was like a total washout I thought
it was I I actually I really you know made some some good kind of meaningful encounters but but
the whole I think it didn't it didn't connect it didn't I didn't really get any value out of that
at all and that was I probably should have just been competing in a hackathon or something, which I think is really like where the action is
at East Denver.
But yeah, and then lately, I will just do that.
If I go into the main event,
it's just because I'm competing in a hackathon.
And that's actually a good,
that's a good hack for these events.
You know, get in, apply for the hackathon.
Like often they'll give you a ticket
and then you just go in and you can go and do the hackathon or not right but it doesn't doesn't really matter
but that's what i've been uh that's what i've been up to more lately like i wouldn't bother to
to spend money on a ticket but definitely like if they're going to give me a give me access and
the opportunity to to hack with some you know with some interesting web3 folk from around the world i'll take that
yeah absolutely those are some some interesting points too and to to reiterate what you said it
sounds like you're saying that the the conference scene is unsustainable but had a good ride these
past past few years do you think that we're still going to have conferences going on or do you think
these are going to kind of just turn virtual well i i don't know because you know we it was so virtual like everything was so virtual during
covid right and so i don't i think it is i think that the conference circuit is is somewhat
necessary i just think that there's two that it just feels like there's just too many right like
i just i don't think and and it's really like the problem with
crypto the problem with the crypto events everybody's spending so much money like the
sponsors are spending so much money on these damn parties and everyone's trying to one-up each other
on you know like their stack and like who raised the most and all of that and it's like you know
it's it's not that's not sustainable right i mean i love it i love the
parties you know that's that's great but it's not it's funny because i was in token 2049 i was at the
i was at a music industry there was a music industry conference and actually there was a
gaming conference as well like a non-web3 gaming conference and and and there was you know the
parties there were so dry compared with
the the defy parties right like if you go to a defy party it's like you know champagne on tap
you know there's like all kinds you know gourmet buffet all of this stuff is great i love it but
like come on like we can't we're not gonna it's it's not like the most important thing to just go
and and party right like i mean it is
that i agree there's a time and a place for it and you know hats off to those guys that that kept
us entertained but i just think that it's like the the psychology of like raise money throw party
you know and then raise more money throw more party you know that's kind of i think there's
like uh that's something that's kind of somewhat endemic to web 3 these days and uh i don't think it can it i just it cannot persist right like because you look at an industry like
the music industry very mature like they will not do that and but that this is this is also partly
the reason i love the web 3 scene because of because of this like new money like what a show
show your show your you know you want to you want to show who you are and all
of that stuff so yeah i i have two minds on that right as i think you can hear from uh from my
experience there yeah absolutely i appreciate you diving deeper into that um you know champagne on
tap doesn't sound too bad right but i completely agree there is some crazy parties that we that we
see and it's it's it's interesting the way funds are spent because some projects are, you know, kind of shifting out of Web3 or running out of funds, running out of runway.
So it's definitely interesting to see how funds have been used over these previous years, especially from certain companies.
But I appreciate that take, Adam.
I'm going to go ahead and pass it over to you, FLB.
Yeah, for sure.
Thank you, Nick.
I mean, definitely agree with some of those points uh quite some scattered thoughts on my end though I think it very much depends on the
objective of uh what you want to achieve through through a convention or through an event um so
take well I don't necessarily name any names, but there's companies out there
that have millions or tens of millions, even hundreds of millions to spend.
Um, and they're really just like burning money for PR sake, I guess you could say.
Uh, and you see that as well with not just events, but also, um, kind of web two sponsorships
where it doesn't necessarily directly translate to, I don't know, 10,000 new users, but
it does put you in front of eyeballs, even if it isn't necessarily your core target demographic or
your core target user. And I think what Russ and Adam mentioned about side events is the kind of the the crux of it all uh because the main event for example I went to
ETH Denver this year I walked into the main convention when the first days was pretty empty
um which was unfortunate to see but then you go to some of these side events like a
polka dot party or a bariachain party or whatever it may be and it's it's packed to the brim and i remember seeing a newborn
child at a party at 1 30 a.m which was quite a sight uh but disregarding that i think the main
thing for events is really um the the networking um and figuring out more about new brands. And then from there, I think what success really looks like
is being able to have these kind of tangible follow-ups
from different connections,
whether it's you looking for new devs, for a new idea,
or networking with founders about partnerships,
or meeting new investors, and generally as well,
just being able to portray a particular narrative
that maybe you're shifting towards.
And I guess just to wrap it up,
in terms of main convention and all that sort of stuff,
and like Adam said for side events,
I think the budget and the amount spent
can definitely get a little out of hand sometimes.
And there is cases where it's worth it and cases where it's not, to put it simply.
Yeah, absolutely. I appreciate those takes, FLB.
It kind of seems like we all can kind of agree that the real value comes from side events and not as much as the conferences.
Right. I'm pretty sure all the connections that I've made over the years, especially in real life, have all been through side events.
You know, and then you kind of check out the main event with a couple of buddies or a couple of people that you meet up with.
Right. Or even the company that you're with.
So I can completely agree with everything that's said um a little story about me i was with a game studio for a few years and the
first year we went to gdc and we had a booth and we immediately realized after that that we would
never do that again just because how much money it costs right for gdc and the booths to to have
a booth there and the ro ROI just wasn't necessarily there
for what you're looking for and I also I always think too if you're going to a conference really
understanding what you're looking for I think Russ was kind of touching on that as well right
like investors or partners or if you have a campaign coming up but just really understanding
what you're looking for when you go to conferences. FLB, I see your hand up, brother.
Yeah, I think just to kind of build on top of that,
it's simply too expensive for a lot of companies.
I mean, when you look at TradFi, TradFi companies in a lot of cases
have more stable revenue streams and longer revenue history
to be able to afford, i guess you could say risks but also
just generally these these one-off and more pr focused expenses where transparently and to put
it bluntly a lot of crypto companies don't have that and they're using um some of their funds
which in a lot of cases can be uh can be limited or then a runway um in a manner that may not be the most appropriate
yeah absolutely i think that's a great point right there too right mentioning how a lot of
these companies have revenue um you know we do we a lot of these companies have raised money
especially you know my expertise is more on the gaming side right and a lot of money has been
raised but as as we all have seen the biggest issue in gaming right now especially in the web3 side is revenue and continuously bringing money
in to sustain all of these costs whether it be internally or even on the marketing side
so completely agree flb i'm gonna go ahead and pass it over to you adam
yes and i i just wanted to clarify to be clear clear, I'm not I'm not complaining about the parties.
Right. And I wasn't I wasn't I'm not inferring that you were kind of making out that I was or something.
But because I love the parties, you know, the parties are that's that's been you know, that's as I said, like that's what I was there for.
Really, in the end, I discovered, you know, after leaving the stupid conference hall and realizing what a waste of
space it was but uh it and it's it's really it's it's more an observation that yeah i it's not i
don't think it is sustainable sadly and uh and and we're not so i i think that there's gonna
that there must be some kind of crunch i mean i don't know like if the new if if the you know the the kind of macro like
arthur's take that we could uh you know see the ipo meta right post circle and uh many crypto
companies like looking for this new source of liquidity and and that will be what can you know
like just turn you know open up open up the uh the market for some of these projects that
are just like really bloated and uh but not really able to uh turn it around you know so
it looks like wall street has got an appetite for it so that's that's very interesting
yeah absolutely and and i definitely didn't see you as portraying it that way but i definitely
could see you playing devil's advocate right so i do appreciate that um so i just see the emojis
there that makes me laugh as well but no 100 adam i appreciate that russ i'm gonna go ahead and pass
it over to you brother yeah so i agree with everyone And the more we talk about it, the more wound up I get, actually, because when you think when you think about the whole premise of what we're trying to do for the life of me, and maybe I've missed a news announcement or something, but LoomUp clearly is the go to kind of side event platform for the majority of crypto events and the only crypto capability is to gate
potentially any of these events with wallets whether they're evm or solana or whatever but
i i can't understand why and i would probably start seeing this soon is that um a lot of people
turn up to the larger events mainly to merch hunt and to look for free drink and food. I think
we've all been on the receiving end of that. And I get it. But a lot of people turn up for 10
minutes, see what's available, grab what they need to grab and then head off. So achieving an ROI as
an event holder is borderline impossible unless you create your own token environment within your event.
So I don't know why Luma doesn't create the opportunity because ETH CC, some of the bigger chain operators, you're minting NFTs to access, there's airdrops, there's potential opportunity
for token interaction at these events, B Base have started doing it as well.
Why have we not got to the stage yet where if we want to prove ROI
and we want to prove an effective outcome
for our event or an event
where a few projects get together,
if you're a games company,
if no one's playing your game there and then
and using your token,
then you've failed at the event, in my opinion.
There's an opportunity to tokenize the experience i don't know why people aren't setting up utilities
and token mechanics for these larger events so if you attend you get an airdrop if you don't attend
you give up maybe a five five dollar uh deposit on your entry because a lot of these things are oversubscribed as well
I think it's ripe for disruption personally because every event I went to in Dubai on a
side event was oversubscribed yet when you got there it was undersubscribed so people aren't
getting in a cab they're not going to see your business because they see 5,000 people queuing up
to get into a 500-person hall.
Whereas if you ask them for a couple of dollars up front
or to prove that you own the token before you come in
and you start actually creating hierarchies in your attendance,
then I think you could easily tokenize or create token structure
or incentive around an event because we're doing it every day in our projects.
I've got the itch to do something different and that would be very much around OGs in your group NFT holders there's certain perks and privileges and if you haven't got anything to
do with the project you're going to visit then you do the live quest you play the game you buy
the token you earn you earn your badge in the community, you know? And if you did that,
you'd be able to prove ROI on every single event.
And I guarantee you the grifters wouldn't turn up.
I absolutely love that take Russ,
especially because you segue into my next question,
which was basically,
basically going to ask how would you be able to track ROI from either
sponsoring or
hosting a side event, right? And what would that look like? And how would you go about it,
right? Even hypothetically in Russia, that's absolutely awesome. And I completely agree
because some of these bigger companies, to your point, right? You look at Luma and you see 5,000
people registered and you're like, holy crap, like, okay, am I even going to be able to get
into this event, right? And you might find value in it, but maybe 4,000 people to your point are just merch hunting.
They're for the free food, the free drinks, et cetera, et cetera.
And so really tokenizing and using this technology that we work with on a daily basis would only make sense, right?
I really like the idea too of, okay, then if you don't pay or you're new, quest it, right?
And not something that's vanity metrics such as follow us on Twitter, retweet a tweet, but try our game, try our products.
Maybe leave a survey, right?
I think that's amazing.
Did you have something else to add to that, Russ?
Yeah, just KPI number one.
API number one, holders get the free bar, non holders don't.
Holders get the free bar, non-holders don't.
I mean, you really could break down and have zones and areas where people run the gauntlet
to get to the free bar.
You could do all sorts, you know, but anyway, I've spoken enough on this.
I'll let someone else come up.
Absolutely.
And you laugh about it, but I mean, that makes sense though, right?
Because we have so many grifters in Web3 and having people that actually support you and
then supporting them back only makes the most sense right and we're able to do that with the technology
that we currently have so i do appreciate that russ that's amazing adam i'm gonna go ahead and
pass it over to you yes it's yeah i totally hear russ on that and uh it's it's kind of it's it
really what's required is is a liquidity protocol for
events right it's just it's because the meta right now is that everybody signs up to everything as
far as i can see so everything's oversubscribed um you know if if we were able to just you know
use some of our tokens to measure who's arriving and who isn't then that that is liquidity right you
know so you you make it you know you take the the the irl uh social tokens right you know it would
be a soulbound token or or similar something like that um or even a po app right i i you know that's
it's it's like this stuff has been around for a while you know it's not like we don't need to yeah go go the whole hog uh with uh you know like with uh you know your um
with your sole wallet right but uh it's yeah i see that that that was always something that
that struck me this kind of liquidity liquidity protocol for events it's uh yeah you know we're
all everyone is there builders with the ability to to roll something out like that events it's uh yeah you know we're all everyone is there builders with the ability
to to roll something out like that and it's not going to be perfect but it's a good way to prototype
a new kind of infrastructure for something like that that could absolutely tap into you know some
of the like token gated stuff you're talking about as well or not depending on how many people have
have shown up right because like you'll get some events surely where nobody even nobody even turns
up because they they're all trying to get to the popular one or i don't know or they put off because
it looks like they're oversubscribed right so yeah it is it is interesting how like we haven't
managed to materialize anything really useful for all of these IRL events that are happening all over the world all the time.
Right. So it's like I kind of have FOMO every day.
You know, I feel like people are someone's flying off to Paris or Vegas and I'm like, damn, what's going to Toronto?
No, no, no. Oh, back to Dubai. Yeah, it's all over the place. Right.
back to the buy yeah it's all over the place right yeah absolutely i once again i think these
are all kind of great opinions i would say right on on the topic that we're talking about here
because there's definitely a better way to go about this because i i believe it was what you
said adam i think it was you that said it where you said that the meta is to sign up for every
single event whether you have interest or not.
And it can really be misleading for a lot of us.
And it really could help us or no, I'm sorry, not help us in terms of getting the most out of these side events and conferences.
And I think that kind of circles back to like understanding what you're looking to get out of these side events, even as a host or as a sponsor.
Right. I know we have a few more conferences coming up this year.
I know a couple of companies are going to these conferences,
might even be sponsoring.
And so really understanding how do I get the best out of this?
Because there definitely is a way to get the best out of it.
I think that's just where it comes to being focused
and understanding how to go about that.
But FLB, I'm going to go ahead and pass it over to you, brother.
Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and pass it over to you, brother. Thank you. Yeah, I guess two things.
One, kind of jumping off of what Adam and Russ were talking about,
and this is more so just an idea that came to my mind right now,
but it'd be interesting if Luma down the road had something
where every event you go to, you scan a QR, you claim a POAP,
and then if you signed up for an event and your wallet doesn't
have the po app that you then have like a luma score that gets slashed and then people could
maybe put uh like event organizers could put a minimum luma score or something that that you
need to have um to to attend uh just a random idea but two i think uh kind of building on top
of what you were just saying, Nick, I think
there's a way to make it work. I guess ROI in terms of event, I see in the form of a funnel
in the sense that there's kind of different layers to it. At the top, you have the booth that you
have and the promotion that you can do on social media about the booth,
those vanity metrics as well, like your Twitter follows and whatever else.
But on top of that, I think it's pointless to have a booth just for kind of merch or whatever
else without having any sort of demo or being able to showcase your product and have people
actually use your product. So I think that when you have things like that at the top of the funnel,
they help you more towards your, I suppose, measures of success that we were talking about
earlier, like the follow-ups from
connections that you may have made and then that can funnel down towards uh potential new bd
conversations and product demo requests partner integrations maybe new funding whatever it may be
but this is a bad joke but how do you you track ROI? You accept it's negative.
But no, no, I think there, there's a way to make it work. And it's really about how you
organize this, this funnel. And I think it, it doesn't have as much thought put into it a lot of time as it should. It's more focused around just having a good time per se,
as opposed to having a good time
and promoting your brand and your product.
Yeah, absolutely. I appreciate that.
And how do you, what did you say?
How do you track ROI or you realize it's negative?
What did you say, FLB? That our eye or you realize it's negative what did you say
flb that's you that you accept it's negative that you accept it's negative man that feels more like
a web3 thing but i hear you on that one i'm curious openly do you do you have any thoughts on on any
of the like any of the discussion that we've had or i'm pretty sure you guys have been to a couple
conferences as well so if you can definitely touch on any experiences that you guys have had whether it be from hosting or
attending. All right we might be having a connection issue no worries at all. Okay so yeah
we can definitely have talked a little bit about conferences, a little bit about side events and the ROI and the success factor of those. I'm curious to know when it makes
sense, you know, your guys' thoughts on when it makes sense for your company to attend conferences,
right? What stage of your company should you be making revenue? Is it when you have a product
you're ready to launch? When do you guys feel it'd be most valuable, right? does cost money it's marketing dollars at the end of the day so when would it be worth it
for a company to use that that budget go ahead flb pass it over to your brother thanks um i think
i think it varies on the project i think um i mean stating the obvious for example if you haven't
changed much or don't have any new big integrations or whatever it may be,
that you're not going to get too much new kind of added value on top of what you already have and assuming you've already been to previous events.
But I think you can definitely find opportunity in attending events as a brand,
opportunity in attending events as a brand, especially if, for example, you make a pivot
or you add a new product like Orderly recently added the Omnivalts, which is essentially
letting market makers control your USDC to earn yield on top of that and being able to push new
narratives like that. Or if you're celebrating a TGE and things along those lines
to bring attention to your token and potential incentives there. I also think even as a smaller
brand, there's definitely a lot of potential value to be found at events. The question there is,
is it worth having your own booth? Or as a founder, should you just go to the events and then network with people at all these
side events, et cetera? Cause you may, to be honest,
and in a lot of cases be able to achieve just as much value from events by
being an attendee, if not more value,
cause you get to kind of float around more than by being a host can definitely
blabber on some more but i'll
let the others add on absolutely brother stop blabbering man we're we're here we got time man
always happy to hear your thoughts and uh you know could always spark more more thoughts with
other speakers but i do appreciate flb i believe we had adam and then we can go over to russ
Adam and then we can go over to Russ.
So there is definitely a value and there is definitely a time as a brand that you can capture value.
And I think one of the problems is when going to an event, you go to an event just to kind of show up to kind of validate that you're still alive, right?
show up to kind of validate that you're that you're still alive right or or you just need to
you just need to kind of it's about flexing right rather than a really tactical objective and it's
and it's the same in every industry actually like it's you know and and and they've all been
disrupted and it's really interesting in in crypto because it's such a new industry and it's kind of all happened at the same time and
and the money's so fast that people and and people really want to connect at these international
events as well so but uh i think what's what's even what's even my point here but but there's
definitely yeah i think that the booth thing is very interesting because, you know, in my former company, I think that, you know, having attended like numerous trade shows and and found that like really like the max impact came from the total minimum spend.
And it really wasn't the only thing that was the only thing that was required to be there and to demo.
Right. And and the value of that was the only thing that was required to be there and to demo right and and the value of that
was so great right from one event that it kind of convinced you know myself and my team that we
should go back year on year on year and frankly and scale up like our efforts with booths and all
this stuff and in the end it's like you just realize like what are you even paying for anymore
like you're just there to kind of prove to everyone else that you've met that you're still going.
But actually, like, all of that, you know, that ROI that you achieved in, like, event one, kind of by breaking out, was eventually kind of started to dissipate.
And really, like, you know, to capture mindshare in this industry it's it's all digital really you
know i mean i think i think that the the the conference thing in crypto is like these really
really really good strategic partnerships and these relationships that can help to open up
the market and and i but i do think it's it's it's a digital realm. It's digital assets, you know, like this is, it's, you know,
and the tools are so sophisticated,
like what we've got coming out now with all of these InfoFi products.
So like how you could justify spending money to try and like,
what is it, do you think your retail, like, you know,
the guys that are playing your game are like walking around like a
conference like that, you know?
So I do think that it's definitely you've got to be very strategic with your
your marketing dollar and digital is is definitely you know you can get an outsized return from that
for sure uh so i would be i i think that yeah it's it's being very strategic and precise would be my suggestion for dealing with events because they are still worth attending in some shape or form.
Absolutely. I totally attest to the value of being of showing up in person and meeting, you know, some important people that move the markets.
Right. Strategic and precision.
I love that, right?
I think that's kind of a common theme
that we've had throughout this space
is discussing having a clear focus
of what you're trying to push
or what you're trying to achieve at these events.
And I think it's another common theme, right?
With doing this digitally,
figuring out how we can have an impact,
gain mind share, but without spending you
know million dollars on a yacht right how can we do this with the lowest budget budget possible how
can we bring an experience right that these people will remember and and be able to showcase our
product to as many eyes as possible and get as much roi as. So I appreciate that, Adam. Russ, I'm going to go ahead and pass it over to you, brother.
Yeah, I view the value of all of this based on old school networking. So this industry has expanded and contracted at a rapid rate in both directions.
And we've seen the prolonged market and what it's done to trust.
You've seen the prolonged market and what it's done to trust.
I think people that are here building something serious that want to get to not the cabal level,
but the high table of respected professional individuals have to get on that plane, whatever it takes.
If you are a project founding team, if you're looking to make breakthroughs and challenge the status quo in your
category so for gaming for example the previous cycle ogs are kind of the big market cap projects
and you're kind of looking at it from a micro cap point of view and as a as a founder you have to
look at that and go first of all how do i climb that ladder second of all how did they how do those guys get there
was it just a first to market opportunity or do they have a certain network or do they work with
a certain set of partners so if you're serious about building a business you have to go to these
things with a goal and that is to find high quality people that are turning up and doing the real life
commitments because I guarantee you the big names
on the CMC list aren't the ones that turn up at the events the people that turn up at the events
are the real OGs the people that have seen the market for six to eight years you learn a huge
amount from people that when you least expect it so I think there's a lot of undiscovered value
when you do go to these things you end up at that
end of day side event and you end up talking to a random guy or girl at the bar whilst waiting to
hand in your one drinks token that you've got and you end up talking to someone that's
literally blazed a trail in gaming for 20 years unfortunately never heard of them because the
market's so vast but by the end of it you're exchanging details not
just a usual telegram selfie but but a meaningful conversation and then a year later you end up
working together and we're seeing that going to these things for the last 18 months and truly
spending time with select individuals by chance by design design as well, that when you come to have a
notable event in your project or business like we do next week, it's a matter of making a phone
call and saying, look, we're doing this, would you like to support us in any way? And you get to a
point of scale very, very quickly. So I think it rewards people that are serious about building in this industry for
a number of years. I also think that, yeah, the events model needs shaking up, probably stripping
back and doing differently. But I think the people that have been in the space long enough know that
and they go because the critical mass all congregate to that particular location. But
the amount of meetings in hotel reception areas,
private dinners, all of the more intimate small group get-togethers are 10x value anything else
that you can go to. So it doesn't cost an arm and a leg but you've also got to have a concern
confidence to put yourself out there to do it. So I know that's not for everyone but doing it and throwing yourself out your comfort zone is definitely rewarding if you
have a mid to long term time horizon so yeah for me that the partners that we roll in with now and
in the next few weeks some of them I've spent 18 months getting to know and building trust with
because they've done far more than us and they
know far more than us but that's where you that's how you get somewhere in any industry and it's not
just crypto and I don't necessarily agree that you can build and scale great businesses online
there comes a time we need to sit across someone have a coffee or a beer and learn a huge amount
from each other and those interactions are where the
ROI is in all of this and they're not on Luma and they're not in any kind of main event that's for
sure so it's trusting that good people head in that direction it's then a scavenger hunt to find
the quality and that's a skill set in its own right. And I really like what FLB was saying around Looma and the PO apps and the kind of loyalty point, the XP, if you attend, you bonus up.
Because imagine that mass audience.
Like if you started really segmenting that audience based on attendance, commitment, engagement, you've got an incredible funnel on your hands.
And I hope luma do something
about it although i'd imagine crypto is probably a very small subsection of their overall business
but i think there's a business that should appear and disrupt the out of that
it's part of my french because i think we have the tools to do it really easily
yeah absolutely i russ i i really appreciate you flb and adam being on these spaces because
i think you guys bring a lot of value and a lot of great thoughts around the topic of conferences
and and i really liked what you touched on on this takes years to be able to build that network
of people and to go to these conferences and to make these
connections and to find people that are truly worth working for and working with. I actually
met Justin at GDC, I think like three or four years ago, and now we work together. So it's
definitely interesting to see the value in conferences and, you know, meeting these people
in real life, but understanding that sometimes those fruits don't bear for years, right? Months, years, anything along those lines.
So I do appreciate that. I completely agree. We are kind of coming on the end of it. I don't have
many more questions. I do have one question that we can kind of touch on the last 14 minutes,
but it's kind of just geared around with these Web3 conferences, right? And are they growing? Or are we kind of just in this Web3 echo chamber, right? Is it the same consistent people going to these conferences every year? Or do you guys really see this continuously growing and finding value in these conferences to be going on a consistent basis?
conferences to be going on a consistent basis.
I'll jump in. So I was really surprised at the scale of token 2049 Dubai in terms of the side
events and the evening events. Like these things were queuing out the door. Yet most people I
were talking to were looking for a job so I was
massively confused to be honest with you I was wondering how many sugar daddies were kicking
around for this type of event to exist but anyway I think as this cycle this kind of natural
clearance I call it every cycle creates a set of successful projects or businesses in each
category then we see a lot of participants leave again goes quiet we all know the bull the bear but
i do feel this time around that i think people are after two or three years and for free a few
of us that have been in it a bit longer we kind of know who's going to be around now for a while and have intentions to be sticking around after this cycle as
well. So in that sense, I do see probably a more fractional, more focused, more mature
approach to things like I think we're seeing a mass global economic change and adoption of stable coins, which will evidently involve crypto as a whole, Bitcoin, etc.
We all know what's going on in the macro market.
I think then that shifts this need to go out and effectively create these huge events to attract participants or it's just an excuse for a party.
I really don't know what the total intent is.
The education is proven to be online.
So if people want to learn about it, it's super easy to do.
With AI, it's even easier to learn now.
Agents will be able to trade and manage your portfolios
and do that already.
You can vibe code through text and voice.
So I'm really not sure that mass events would exist because the people getting together are probably getting together to talk about some pretty serious stuff with what's on the horizon.
events that are kind of invite only. It's 10, 20 people, incredibly successful, all prepared to
share and support and advise. That's where the mature market comes from after this year. And I
would be surprised if we see such a lineup of events next year. I think if we do, they'll be
much smaller. But I don't think you'll be able to justify $1,000 a ticket to token in Dubai next
year. But I could be massively wrong. But I think the market is now shifting into a maturity curve,
which requires a smaller group of business owners, project founders and communities to
take this industry forward. And I think we will shed a very big skin next year. And I think that
will be the time where we see fundamental change
across the board. Absolutely. I think this ties into what you were saying in the beginning of
this space as well, Russ, where you're mentioning that you see a lot of big studios leaving Web3,
which is leaving a lot of mindshare and a lot of room for builders to kind of come out, right?
So it seems like maturity is where we're're going which of course that makes sense right
we've had a lot of ups and downs and in crypto and in gaming and we've tried a lot of and
a lot of hasn't worked right but a lot of has worked so uh completely agree and i do think
that we're maturing and it's interesting to see the direction that we're going with all of this
so i do appreciate that russ i'm gonna go ahead and pass it over to you adam
so i do appreciate that russ i'm gonna go ahead and pass it over to you adam
yes so also yes speaking speaking to us i i it's i i think there's there's something like
you know there's there's some part of the industry or some part of the events component
of the industry that's that's looking to target retail right and i i think that that is is part
of like what has kind of turned these events into into kind of festivals almost right i think that that is is part of like what has kind of turned these events into
into kind of festivals almost right i think that the the last that you know the one recent one
um i recall that was massive was devcon right in bangkok and that was really just astonishingly
you know i mean it was astonishingly well attended every event.
But I mean, and the impression is, you know, the industry is thriving. Right.
And that was actually kind of all time high for that was just post the, you know, the Trump election and all of that.
So, you know, exciting time to be a conference um but i i don't think that yeah those those kinds of events
that's not really or i mean you know of course like the devcon itself and like you know when
you get inside into like what's going on with the hackathons and the and the workshops and
everything and like the real connections that are being made that's that's the kind of meaningful
piece but it's definitely i think that i don't mean i don't know how important it is to
to be attracting retail to these kinds of conferences uh frankly and uh yes so i i think
i i mean i i very much i i hear you and i can kind of um sympathize with uh your situation going through these kinds of these different events. But yeah, it's hard as well,
because I think that, you know, it's people like to see the feet on the ground, right? And that's
what the event organizers need. But then, you know, crypto is not an events business. And sometimes
it feels like it's kind of it was almost trying to become that uh so yeah just uh some some interesting interesting dialogue we've been having here
tonight for sure oh 100 and yeah that's interesting on that retail side right because
it seems like i think russ even touched on it where there's a lot of people looking for jobs and
it's definitely a different crowd outside of retail at these conferences.
Right. But FLB, I am going to give you one last opportunity.
If you have anything to add, if not, no worries, brother.
We can go ahead and end on some outros.
But just thought I'd give you the opportunity one last time.
Sure. Yeah. I mean, in terms of the echo chambers, I think, honestly, many, many events can kind of be.
But I don't think that's always bad
especially if you're earlier stage product or ecosystem these echo chambers can kind of help
you uh make those those fundamental connections with the uh i suppose the ogs or the classics in
the industry um that being said i feel like if you're not actively trying to design moments for outsiders and especially people from TradFi backgrounds or Web2 devs or your core users, then you're really just, I guess, passing the mic around at the same table every year, which is good for kind of being in the loop on things, discussing narratives,
et cetera.
And like Russ mentioned, I think there's definitely value to having these smaller events and those
closer connections.
And oftentimes that can lead into blossoming into something further down the road.
blossoming into something further down the road. But I think in general, kind of the best events
really have some form of deliberate on-ramps, whether it's those kind of cross-industry panels,
introducing new audiences or native experiences with your product or not too heavily jargoned
workshops, et cetera, et cetera. I feel like we don't necessarily need fewer events.
We just need to change how events are done and need a better,
I guess you could say, like a translation layer almost.
Yeah, absolutely.
I'm sorry.
I apologize.
No, absolutely.
I completely agree.
It looks like we lost Adam as well.
I do appreciate all your – oh, Russ, we got one more. Go ahead, absolutely. I completely agree. It looks like we lost Adam as well. I do appreciate all you. Oh, Russ, we got one more. Go ahead, Russ.
Yeah, sorry. I can't stop talking.
I forgot to bring this up earlier, but it's very true for people either speaking or listening that are in a community.
If you want to prove ROI and you want to definitely succeed in this space,
we did a get together in Amsterdam with our Dutch community last week.
15 people in a bar, custom T-shirts printed, the cost of an easy jet flight.
Those three or four hours we all spent together,
which bearing in mind has been a couple of years of building
and going through every event possible in in the netflix series which is crypto but um us all
sitting around a table talking business talking fun getting to know each other a bit better
is is it equally as value to the founding team because they come away knowing why people stick
around why they love your project why they trust you and what you're doing and vice versa.
They get to ask the questions that maybe they don't feel they want to ask in group environments.
And obviously, when a few beers are flowing, you tend to get more questions about certain things.
So all of that, I have to say, in terms of ROI from a clarity of community culture,
from an ROI of why people are committed and why we're going to win as a collective
group. Sometimes it just takes a round of drinks and sitting down with the community that have
trusted you with what you're building to get a clear understanding of what you need to do next.
I would say it's probably one of the best events, if you want to call it that, I've done in the last
six months. It was equally as valuable as going to Dubai to
Token and spending six hours in a cab trying to find key people you know so sometimes the obvious
is on your doorstep is what I think what I wanted to say absolutely I completely agree we uh when I
was over at Mixmall we actually had a side event and we had like 20 community members show up to
that side event and it was absolutely awesome community members show up to that side event.
And it was absolutely awesome to kind of hear their thoughts and to pick their brain.
And they were able to pick our brain, right?
Community is massive, especially in crypto.
I think it's one of the biggest backbones of crypto.
So I do appreciate that.
It does look like we're on the top of the hour.
So I just want to say thank you once again, FLB, Russ and Adam.
I just want to say thank you once again,
FLB, Russ and Adam.
I appreciate you guys taking the hour
out of your busy schedules to be here
and to give your thoughts and your opinions
and your expertise on this topic, right?
It's absolutely amazing.
And thank you to all the listeners
for also spending an hour here
to listen to what they had to say as well.
And I definitely learned a couple of things
and I hope all of you guys did as well.
So I'm going to go ahead and end it on that note.
I do appreciate once again, everyone being here,
go ahead and follow all of the speakers up here as well as ancient eight.
We have some cool things coming.
We have a couple of games that are launching under our chain.
We have GM Vietnam coming early August as well.
So please give us a follow and give these speakers a follow as well,
because they are all building things that are absolutely amazing.
And I've been here for quite some time,
which is a very huge factor in Web3.
So once again, thank you so much, guys.
And I hope you guys all have a great rest of your day or evening or night,
all that good stuff.
Cheers.
Cheers, guys.
And thank you, Nick.
Yeah, nice to meet you guys.
Let's jam. For sure. Thank you all. Well done. A blast. Thanks, guys, and thank you, Nick. Yeah, nice to meet you guys. Let's jam.
For sure.
Thank you all.
Will do.
Have a blast.
Thanks, guys.
