What's up? You're around today?
Hey man, how are you doing?
Yeah, good. Just wanting to do a casual chill spaces.
I think today is quite a good day.
Finally nice to see Bitcoin doing its thing.
It's been a while. It's been consolidating for so long and sleeping at the wheel.
And it's nice to see that it's broken and strange and yeah, looking good.
I haven't even checked the prices for the market the past few days.
That's fine. That's why I'm here.
I mean, you've paid me a lot of money to be here today and I do appreciate that.
But literally I realized that I haven't checked the charts in like three, four days.
Like when I saw Bitcoin was 45K, I was like, what? When did that happen?
It's pretty cool how it just gave the finger to everyone at that 38 to 800 level and just said,
well, I'm not going any lower. Fuck you and fuck you too and fuck you too.
And it just carried on doing its thing.
It was actually quite cool.
It's been pretty boring and pretty shitty, but at least it didn't shit the bed too badly.
So it was a sell the news, sell the event.
But what was cool about it is that it kind of maintained that bullish trend that it's held pretty much for a year now.
Which obviously a lot of people don't realize because we also focused on kind of like the alt coins and what most of us saw anyways.
Yeah, I mean, it was clearly like I was convinced it would be sell the news, but it didn't give any kind of like serious dip.
I mean, it gave like a I don't know.
What was it like a 20% dip something like that?
Which is like in tune with what's been happening since September, October.
Like the dips are like there are some dips, but these people who have been fading the bull run are they just don't don't get their entries.
They just will never get their entries.
It's kind of like Pandora.
Yeah, Pandora has been having an interesting I mean, it's it's having a much needed kind of like dip at the moment.
I'm actually super happy.
We're doing this space on a massive dip massive.
Yeah, like yeah, I mean, it's it's it's quite important that it does do this.
It's also quite what's quite interesting about and maybe we can get into it.
It's kind of like the the fad that's come out of, you know, this whole thing where, you know, obviously all the people that are on the sidelines are coping and they're saying, well, you know, this isn't really a real like standard.
And it's not really something that's approved by the relevant authorities.
I mean, obviously that's all bullshit, but it's just interesting to see kind of like our focus contrive and try and manipulate information to suit their narrative.
You know, it's like, you know, we kind of like we're definitely off piece here with this thing.
But in my opinion, this off piece is pretty damn fucking cool.
And it's actually does something that people have been trying to do for a very long time.
You know, NFTs and tokens hand in hand with liquidity.
Pretty much in between the two of them.
It's pretty damn sexy as far as I'm concerned.
Yeah, I mean, there's been there's been stuff that has been similar, right, but never as simple as this where I realized like I had a few realizations around this.
Like I kind of realized that I was looking back as like to what I was writing to you on Saturday and to others like the messages that I wrote was like what I thought about it.
And I was like, shit, that was actually really good.
Like I never obviously never imagined they would get this far this fast, but it's it's very elegant and very simple.
And I know there's like pseudo swap and I know there's like rappers and stuff, but they've been they're kind of disconnected.
And what one thing that I've done and I think that really helped me with this play was hanging out in in the telegram and like actually going through messages and it's crazy.
Like even now people are jumping in the telegram and you see there's like people who are absolute noobs and they have no idea.
Like they keep asking the same questions like, oh, if I send the NFT to another address, I can sell the NFT and the tokens, right, and stuff like that.
And I realized that for people like that who just like, you know, they're just writing the hype or they don't know much about it.
They imagine like trying to explain pseudo swap to them or like trying to explain, hey, you have to go to this rapper and like wrap your NFTs and then you're going to get tokens on the other side.
And then you can and the other thing that I think is really cool.
And again, it's like it's stupidly simple.
Like I'm not saying it's any kind of like crazy innovation or anything like that, but it's like they're intertwined, right?
So there's no like with the rapper, you you're going to basically split the liquidity and split the tokens or like the supply, whatever, whatever you want to call it into two because you're going to have half NFTs and half tokens, right?
Or whatever the distribution is, whatever the proportion proportions are.
And this way you can have liquidity kind of like on both ends and you just decide which way you want to make the transaction where you want to buy and where you want to sell.
And that's not been done before.
So, yeah, there's like immense scope.
And that's actually like when I saw all those tweets yesterday.
So like I sold some at like eight thousand because I was like, whoa, this is going like up way too high, way too fast.
And then when I saw like it gave a really shallow dip and I saw I was like kept pushing out, I'm like, OK, this is definitely going over 10K.
So I bought some back and then I was like wondering, OK, did I do the right thing?
And then a few hours later, I see all the tweets about like, oh, this is not the first thing.
Actually, there's this other protocol insert my bags, which has done this before.
And there's this other one on Solana, which has done this before everything else.
And I'm like, dude, like it like, first of all, they didn't actually do the exact same thing, but it's irrelevant.
Like nobody gives a fuck.
Like nobody actually cares.
Second of all, they didn't take off.
Right. Like the brilliance in what these guys did.
Yo, yo, the brilliant stuff with what these guys did was that they.
You better because I can hear myself in your.
Yeah, they also did like a really good launch.
Like if you look at everything they've done, it's it's been really well thought out.
Like they launched it with like very, very high liquidity.
I didn't understand exactly what they did.
They create like two contracts or something to like fend off the snipers that they didn't know which contract would be it.
And they managed to avoid sniping.
Yeah, everything was done like really, really well.
And because they didn't have like any influencers and you seize anyone to like, you know, like dump like crazy.
I mean, there was that that big dump like 12 hours in when they were sleeping, which like shook a lot of people off.
But yeah, basically, it's the combination of all these factors that led to this exploding.
And yeah, like people are just going to adopt what exploded, right?
Like what's gaining traction.
So regardless of whether this is officially approved by the Ethereum Foundation or whatever or regardless if it's like the first iteration or the fifth iteration,
it's the one that stuck and got the most hype.
So I guess that's matter.
That's what matters again.
You know, there's that saying that, you know, the numbers and the opinion of many really does matter.
And if you see how the markets essentially rallied around this whole idea.
Firstly, I think Etherscan initially just you couldn't see what was going on.
They sorted that out really quickly.
I know that the NFT exchanges also have adopted it.
I think a couple of them have said, cool, we're in, we're doing this.
So, you know, kind of like the whole the whole infrastructure side of things has kind of accepted that.
Well, people are doing this.
We now need to facilitate said transparency on the blockchain and let's do it.
So it doesn't really matter what anybody says.
It's actually what people are doing and what people are doing right now is that the most insane amount of liquidity is moving into these 404s.
And as far as I'm concerned, that's what matters.
I have I am slightly concerned that there hasn't been a willingness from the so-called powers that be especially at the Ethereum Foundation coming out and saying at least coming out and saying, hey, this is really cool or this is we're cautious, but we find it interesting.
And perhaps there is, you know, an opportunity here for us to explore something beyond just, you know, these other standards that we have as far as I'm concerned.
I mean, it's just I think DeFi is going to be a lot more interesting.
It's been super boring for far too long.
I agree a thousand percent.
And yeah, I share your sentiment about the Ethereum Foundation.
I'm so surprised that they haven't said, okay, let's they should be all over this right now.
I mean, even if it means just improving the code, you know, I would think they'd be all over this, but maybe they are.
I mean, maybe the team got contacted by someone who'd be interested to know.
Is it that important that they actually come out and say something?
I don't think it's important.
I just think it's about being actively participating in what's going on.
It's kind of like, you know, what you know what it is.
It's kind of it's almost like this whole thing of do you want to be a part of what it is that you've built or do you want to sit as the kind of like, you know, I don't know, kind of like in your little white palace.
And and at the moment, it very much seems like they're sitting in their little while they're very big white palace with the very big bags and they don't really give a fuck about anything.
It would be a nice boat of confidence.
It's not that it really matters, but it would be a nice vote of confidence and it would be like a nice attaboy to the just for the community as a whole just to see that.
Okay, these got the the devs are they like this.
They like what they're saying here.
You know, it's just a nice vote of confidence, but it's not that important.
These guys are doing all that.
I was going to ask what you guys thought about kind of like the ideas that might come out of this, you know, I mean, obviously we have a whole new paradigm essentially.
Not necessarily a new paradigm, but a whole new way of delivering something that was almost impossible to deliver, you know, and that's liquidity within the layers that are NFTs and not the opportunity is there.
And I'm just curious if you guys had any thoughts as to where we could potentially go with this thing, because I suppose that's what narratives are about, right?
Just to be able to kind of like make educated guesses as to what's coming next.
You guys had me curious about the Ethereum Foundation shit.
The team hasn't even submitted ERC 404 as an official standard to be approved by anyone.
So like yeah, the ecosystem.
It's like all open permissionless.
It looks like these guys just created a GitHub slapped ERC 404 on it and ERC 404 again isn't even a proposal to be reviewed accepted.
Like signed off on by official Ethereum Foundation people.
So I think you guys are giving that stuff to stuff too much weight for participation approval, whatever.
Like the team hasn't done shit.
They created something they slapped 404 on it and that's just kind of what's going on.
I didn't think it was that important for them to come out and say anything and it's like, yeah, it's like we're way past 404 anyway when it comes to EIPs.
So yeah, it's like it's more of a meme and like marketing thing which caught on really well actually.
Yeah, and it's hilarious to see and it's hilarious to see people who are like actually know how these EIPs work and stuff like go absolutely crazy and how these guys name this and it's catching on and they're like absolutely seething.
It's it's it's hilarious, but yeah.
Yeah, I'm sitting here looking at it now just to see in 404s and anywhere on here is anything that's been withdrawn, submitted, approved, like under review, literally anything I don't even know the team's calling that far as to doing this shit.
They just created it, named it and now are winning.
Literally winning just just from a from a what also what I noticed and it's quite interesting is just how liquidity has pretty much migrated from everything in DeFi to the 404s at the moment.
Have you guys noticed that you noticed all your other bags take a slight slight dip along the way?
Yeah, dude, it's like DeFi summer.
I swear it feels like DeFi summer.
What's amazing is that I think what helped a lot is the Solana crash.
For some reason, it coincided perfectly with the with the launch of this project and everybody was sort of like at least on my on my timeline.
So a lot of people saying like, you know, fuck Solana going back to Ethereum and then boom, you got ERC 404s.
It was like the perfect storm scenario.
Yeah, it's perfect timing, especially since like if people are like desperate, like they were absolutely desperate for something to happen on E.
The SPL-22s are running pretty heavy over there too now and they were like, I know you said earlier, like, oh, they were around before, whatever, but it sounds like people are using those as the beta plays.
There's two or three tokens over there.
SPL-22s that are similar to this that are are running pretty hard now.
Yeah, everyone's chasing beta and yeah, that's only more bullish for Pandora.
So for the first time in my kind of like my journey and DeFi and that's been pretty much since the beginning, I've never been exposed to kind of like the Chinese community and now all of a sudden I found myself following a whale Twitter account or so.
It seems and it seems like the following and the interaction is seems legitimate.
We've never had this before and I've also like just monitoring the price action and looking at some of the trades that are going through.
I'm seeing Chinese and Korean text on Etherscan.
So I find that really interesting.
I've never really had an overlap like this before.
This is the first time that I've seen that and I mean, I made a comment earlier when we were on stream that it would be
interesting if Pandora was the one kind of aspect that kicked off this bull market like properly.
Yeah, that's why I'm saying it's kind of like DeFi summer.
Yeah, like the similarities are very both in terms of like timing and like everything.
You're talking about this BTC Dayu guy, right?
I don't know if you want to link it for people that are listening, but it's yeah, it's it's a super interesting accountant.
Oh, he actually he actually wrote.
Yeah, it's exactly what I was saying.
I haven't seen this tweet so far.
Yeah, he's like in this way in this world.
The iPhone simply removed keyboard Mac simply an operating system, etc.
404 simply just a few hundred lines of code.
Yes, the thing like it's stupid.
It's like stupidly simple and if you're like, it's exactly, you know, I don't know how many of you use Mac.
I used to be like a big Windows guy and like big Android guy until I got my first Mac like I had an iPhone before and then I had an iPhone and an Android phone and then I got my first Mac and my mind was completely blown.
I was like, holy shit after like two days of using it.
I was like, why would I ever want to use Windows again?
And then I started appreciating just how fucking simple and intuitive everything on Apple is and I understood why it caught on and this is the exact same thing is like everyone with Windows machines will tell you like, oh, you can't do this on Mac.
You can't do that on Mac.
Yeah, but like for 95% of people don't don't care like they just don't care about that stuff.
They want something that's easily usable and this is the same right?
Like this is just makes things very simple and standardized for projects to to adopt and have liquidity for NFTs and again, like NFT people.
I don't know how this doesn't make everything just that much simpler because like NFT people, I don't know.
I never liked going on OpenSea or Blur and like looking at rarities and shit and like figuring out where to put my bids, etc.
It was like two time consuming.
I would just if I wanted to speculate on an NFT collection, I would just like sweep the floor and then just dump them at floor price.
And that was it. And this makes it so much easier.
It's like I don't even have to think about it.
If I want to like buy or sell something, I just buy the token.
If I actually care about rarities, I look in my wallet and I see what I have and maybe I stash those away in another wallet.
I tagged Yuga Labs yesterday afternoon and I said, come get off, get off your asses.
Get off that pile of money that you're sitting and fucking do an ERC 404 with the punks.
I'd love to trade the punks.
Do you imagine if they did that an official launch on the punks?
I reckon that thing would do 10-20 billion in like a month.
Yeah, I think it depends.
So like they've been talking about, I don't know, coming up with a solution for existing collections.
So I'm not exactly sure how they're going to do that, but they have to talk about that.
This is how they do it, right?
How else are they going to do it?
This is the perfect solution.
No, no, no, but I mean, but I mean like I'm not sure what you actually have to do like at a technical level to enable.
Those collections that were like launched before to actually function this way, but they seem to think it's doable.
So I know they're working on it amongst like million things they mentioned that they would work on.
Yeah, I mean, there's been quite a few collections that came out that, you know, like there's the one on Arbitrum, which is Crystal, which has actually done quite well, surprisingly, for Arbitrum.
Because Arbitrum, you know, people tend to dump things a lot harder than than most places, you know.
So a lot of people tend to dump really hard because I think the majority of people that are on there are actually first time users for the most part.
So you get huge, huge variance on a lot of players there.
And then there's Crystal that started on Arbitrum, which is pretty cool.
I was just wondering what you guys thought about kind of like EOC 404s, like first arrivals on chains.
Do you think that's a thing or do you think that's just people coping?
Wait, say that again, what?
Do you think first time arrival, EOC 404s on chain?
So for example, Arbitrum, there's Crystal.
Do you think those become kind of like stalwarts for the 404 narrative or do you think it's just people coping?
So I think it's both in a sense.
I don't know how to evaluate exactly.
Well, let me put it this way.
I was super early to Pandora and I still have most of my bag.
So like I'm anything really I will do speculating on other 404s is not really going to surpass what I do with Pandora.
So I just choose to focus on my attention on Pandora itself and like figure out how it goes and like stay informed, etc.
Usually when I missed on narratives, I would look for the derivatives, but it's very hard to figure out which ones will have sticking power and which ones will not.
I know a friend of mine is literally buying all the first ones on every chain.
So he bought Crystal because it was the first one in Arbitrum.
He bought, I don't know, this there was one on base.
He's like, okay, now I'm going to wait for the optimism one to launch or whatever.
So yeah, that's one way to do it.
But it's very reminiscent of for those of you who were around before summer with like all the all the food tokens.
It's just literally mania.
And I think it's like it's not in the first stage.
It's maybe like in the second stage.
I don't know how much longer this can go on, but it's going to go even fucking crazier.
And I have no idea how to tell.
It's kind of like even with the NFT craze, right?
Like I had no idea how to tell which collections would do and which not.
I guess it's a matter of figuring out who's in, who launched it, looking at the community, looking at the price action, looking at liquidity.
I mean, there is a bunch of stuff and there's so much shit launched.
Like literally everyone will want to launch 404s because that's where all the attention is, right?
What I would say and what I'm betting on is I think like I'm fairly certain that the ones that are officially endorsed by Pandora itself should do really well.
So there's the first one.
So the first one that was confirmed.
So, you know, the Anon one that launched when I was hanging out in the telegram, like in the first day or two of Pandora, there was this account Anon, which had like super good feedback and stuff.
And then on the spaces they did on Sunday, I want to say it was.
They actually shouted out the Anon guy like, oh, yeah, I know you from the telegram.
You had some really good suggestions, let's talk, etc.
So I always thought that would be like a first like a first project or like a project endorsed by them.
But I don't know, they launched and somehow, I mean, it's not like they're it's not like the Pandora team is disapproving of them, but the Anon guys didn't like work with them to launch it or something.
They didn't like coordinate and stuff.
So it's not like they don't they don't have their approval either.
The first one that actually does is the one they announced on Sunday, the CFW collection palette.
Yeah, it's called the palette.
So that one for me, I sent a bunch of my NFTs to different wallets.
They said they haven't done this so far.
They said in the telegram last night, I think like 18 hours ago, they said that they would announce the criteria for the airdrop.
I know they're also building like a front end in the website where you can claim all the airdrops from all the tokens that are airdropping them.
They're like organizing everything.
So they mentioned they would they would say what the criteria is for the airdrops, but we don't know yet.
Let's say, for example, you have like 10 Pandora in a wallet.
Do you get like the equivalent of 10 whitelist spots?
Or if you have like 10 Pandora in a wallet and like one Pandora in another wallet, you get one whitelist spot for each wallet.
So does it make sense to spread your NFTs to different wallets betting that you might get more whitelist spots or airdrops or whatever it is because we don't know exactly what they're giving out.
Does it matter if you have like a full Pandora or will you also get something if you have like if you're like a fractional owner like you have 0.5 Pandora.
So like we don't know the answer to all those questions.
And it also depends on I guess there would be some cell pressure on the CFW thing because obviously like Pandora holders, it's like free money for them.
But I also think there will be a shit ton of fight.
Because it's like the first officially endorsed project.
So yeah, I actually think you kind of have to balance those things out and see which one wins out.
But yeah, I know it's not necessarily the most helpful answer, but I'm like not sure what to speculate on with all these 404s popping up.
So I think what's also just coming back to the anon thing and it's coming to the fundamentals of launching a protocol fundamentals of launching a protocol.
There's actually only one way to do it in my opinion.
And that is that the fewer amount of people that know about it, the better, obviously, and obviously removing the opportunity for sniper bots to actually come in and essentially take precedent over the whole operation is key to the whole thing.
Or the third option is that you get exactly what happened with Pandora is that there was that really hard dump after the initial three hours of launch.
The initial three hours of launch saw the chart go up.
Everyone dumps and literally goes all the way down to almost zero.
And then there's an uptick from when the devs get back and that down trend from the top to the bottom of that initial 12 hours is the reason why this thing took off in my opinion.
It's because everyone got rid of their bags and pretty much everyone was on equal footing and anyone else who had extras kind of in it for the long term anyways.
And I believe that's the reason why this thing took off the way that it did every single protocol that's had an LBP with pre seeds and all that kind of thing just does not follow sustainability and I think therein lies a whole lot of lessons in terms of how to approach launches.
You know, that's why there's visiting periods.
That's why all of these locks happen because you're trying to avoid the stuff.
Now we're trying to fast track it with these launches within the bull market and I don't think it works.
I don't think it's sustainable unless you've got, you know, billions of dollars of movement through a protocol during the course of the day.
It's just not sustainable.
So I honestly believe that Pandora did as well as it has because of the initial down.
So anyone can go and look at that chart.
I woke up in the middle of the night and I saw it was like 380 and I just dumped everything that I have had left and then I woke up like four hours later and it was like 380 or I don't know like 400.
I can't remember what it was and then I woke up and it was like 500 and like trending up and I was like, okay, like this is interesting.
And then I went into the telegram.
And when I saw how control talks like what he talks like I was like, I remember writing in my telegram groups like I actually like these guys like I like the way they talk.
They seem like they know exactly what they're doing and when I realized that these guys were awake for like 30 hours to ship this thing and like making sure they took a lot of time to make sure that they wouldn't get sniped.
They really thought it out really well.
I was like, okay, there's like no way this doesn't pump.
And it's like the it was a perfect combination of factors like the fact that they also added a ton of liquidity from their own pockets.
They bought the reason it pumped so much in the first place was because they added too much liquidity.
They're also buying back tokens and they telegraphed.
They said, okay, we're going to pull liquidity because there was too much and we're going to buy with the additional if we're going to buy back, but they telegraphed that.
Then people started front running them.
That's why it like pumped to a thousand something because people were like front running them.
Then they're like, okay, we're going to sleep like fuck this.
We're going to stop the buybacks.
Then they said they're going to stop the buybacks and that's when it dumped then they went to sleep and like people just kept dumping.
I know so many people who are following this launch and they dumped like on that they sold everything and then they never bought back.
So yeah, in a sense the team then accumulated like I don't like they said 50% but I think like tons of like those tokens they're using them for, you know, like community stuff incentives, maybe like sending them to exchanges for liquidity and stuff.
They have like 23 or 24% or something, I think.
So you started off with like a 5,000 supply for everyone else.
And as you said, it's like very anyone could have gotten in, right?
Which is why it pumped this much because of distribution is very it's very clean, right?
And the team also has like a ton of tokens like they're gonna they're gonna make bank off of this like they're happy and I found it funny because I saw yesterday and that's the reason why because I told you I bought back at like 9,000 or something what I had sold at like 7,800.
It wasn't that much like compared to my full stack, but I wanted to have like bigger size again and I was like, did I do the right thing?
And then when I saw yesterday, like some of these influencers is like, you know, how there's like groups of influencers that always show the same project before it launches and you can tell if you're if you pay close attention, you can tell like who they are and like how they how they coordinate do all of them all of them were like, oh, but this is not the first implementation.
Oh, but this project did it first.
Oh, but this and that I'm not talking about.
And some by the way, and some like I like answer means just like Solana maxi by this point, but I saw and some sweet as well.
And I was like, is he really trying to make the argument that the Solana one is mispriced because of this one?
But anyway, when I saw all those influencers like coming up with reasons why this shouldn't be where it is because it's not the first thing just like ridiculous reasons.
I was like, there is no like it's so early still.
There is no way this doesn't go higher if so many people are coping so badly.
And one of the things that I like to do and that I did the past few days was I wrote about it in like a few different groups and I had a lot of I have some like people that I that always argue about this stuff and lots of people were arguing with me about it.
Saying it's shit, you know, it's like speculation is going to go to zero at some point, blah, blah, blah.
And all of that is like clear sign that this thing is going to go higher one way.
And we know when we know for a fact that when something is hated for for whatever reason, it doesn't matter whether it's frickin corbongo, whether it's Hex, you know, the thing is that they always land up.
Well, I don't think Hex anymore because I think that's kind of like done and dusted, but I think the rest they're always going to land up running and it's like that's just the way it is.
And there's also a whole lot of cope going on with, you know, guys who are running projects who are seeing the liquidity leaving their protocols and are actually making an effort to tell people how like this is not a good thing.
And these are the reasons why and, you know, the irony that that donkey, what's his name, Pauli, who launched that that silly meme coin recently was saying, no, this is a scam.
And but that's just because everyone just frickin dumped their meme scam and went to to all the ERC 404, you know, it's like they're just everyone spreading their bets at the moment and these guys don't like it.
It's not people are not happy.
The last I think like one of the last stages of this like cope or like sideline way of thinking is, I mean, I think you can do it on wasabi already, but I think once there's like perps for it.
Some like more perps for it to like short it.
I think that's like the last thing that is going to send this like super high.
Yeah, I remember we haven't arrived at that point yet.
Yeah, we're not at that point yet.
But yeah, that's like one of the last like when they actually bet with their money against it and like it actually ends up sending it higher.
Yeah, I mean this I mean this pork thing was a 230 240 million market cap and not at 174.
How it got to 174 million is beyond but it's there at the moment and you know, these guys are unhappy and they are blaming and or because of that.
Yeah, but there's also another thing like we always look at these numbers and we take them for granted like oh with went to I don't know like five whatever 500 million market cap or whatever it went to guys like I know I know this like like liquidity matters.
With being let's say like with and Pandora at the same market cap the money on you have in with the it's more like paper money.
It's on paper because you do not you have like like what like 20 times less liquidity than on Pandora.
There's no way everyone realizes that amount of money is going to be 20 X less people or 20 X less amount realize.
Let's put it that way at those valuations versus Pandora, right?
So in a sense, the market cap of Pandora is much more real than a project that has very little liquidity and that's what's crazy about that.
It's pumped to this valuation with this much liquidity, but it's also why you see the dips are not that that deep, right?
Because there's a lot of good to dump into.
So we're having like 10 20% pullbacks 30% pullbacks which are like very very healthy, but it's not like you look at those coins and you see all the candles on the chart have like Wix in both directions.
They always can like go down 50 60% and they pump up again.
So like yeah, technically, it's the same market cap.
The pork thing is like the same market cap, but it's not actually the same amount of value generated because liquidity does matter a lot.
So yeah, you're 100% right.
I don't think I've ever seen a DeFi token in all the years that I've been in DeFi with as much liquidity ratio than I have with Pandora.
I'm not sure whether people actually appreciate that, but that was one of the first things I noticed.
What does everybody think happens once they do the reveal for the NFT?
I think that's a solid news event in my opinion.
It's very well could be I'm like, I'm not sure but yeah, it depends.
I think it really depends on how they execute.
They would have to execute this thing gracefully.
Gracefully is the key word, dude.
I mean you hit the nail on the head.
They have teased that the NFTs so the guy's been saying like a lot of time.
There's a few things that he said about this and that's another thing that I've been trying to tell people like people initially value this as a 10,000
NFT collection and comparing it to like, okay, it flipped whatever like mutant apes, whatever would flip pudgy penguins, etc.
But it's not it's not it's not like it's not an NFT collection, right?
It's more of an infrastructure project and that's not apparently that's not apparent yet because it's still like lots of these details are not out yet.
I don't know the details, but I've seen what the guy what control has said in the telegram.
So he's alluded to this a lot of times that one, it's more like an infrastructure play to the teased some sort of like someone said something about a launchpad or something and he said, yeah, you're you're very close.
Not quite, but you're very close.
They're going to do something in that way.
He said multiple times that when he said something on their space, he said something like we want to do the reveal like the NFT reveal in stages and we also it will coincide with the reveal of the project like what the project is actually about because people don't know what Pandora is actually about like what they're building.
But the thing is these guys like they basically launched this functionality like the few lines of code whatever to facilitate 404 is in like 30 hours and they launched the collection, right?
But they've been like the devs are like it's only control pretty much talking, right?
Like devs act me and everyone else and they're super silent because they're like fucking coding nonstop.
They hired like shout out to my FT people my friend tech people who have been waiting for racer to hire someone for like six months and approve the fucking app and nothing happened.
These guys have already hired like I don't know like five people or something.
There's like seven people on the team or more.
They have interviews to hire more people.
They're like continuously building towards some stuff, right?
So when he mentioned the launchpad, he also mentioned that he love he hates a lot.
He said he hates Solana, but he loves what tensor has done.
For those of you that don't know tensor is like an NFT marketplace on Solana and they have this like NFT collection called tensorians.
And if you stake tensor you can stake tensorians on on the platform and you get I think you get a percentage of the fees that are generated by the platform.
I'm not exactly sure but there's also like heavy heavy speculation that it qualifies you for like the retroactive airdrop on Solana for tensor on Solana and like tensor is like super used.
So it can be like quite a high valuation for an NFT platform.
So he sees that the NFTs themselves will have utility.
He did say that he also said that people think it's a PFP collection.
And while it has some like PFP elements, it's not what people think and that is they that they want to like think creatively about it and that like they're doing something that hasn't really been done before.
Of course, it could be bullshit.
And depending on what they reveal, you know, they like hype it up so much that there's nothing you could actually reveal that doesn't make it a sell the news event.
That's entirely possible.
But there's definitely like a utility element probably to like taking your boxes or whatever it is after the reveal that should keep people engaged.
I think it depends when it happens because like if this goes to like a billion FTV and the reveal happens, it's really hard to keep people from selling at that point.
So it depends on a lot of factors.
I'm also tending towards sell the news, but I'm not like I'm not a hundred percent sure.
Well, it doesn't really matter what happens from this point onwards unless you are desperately trying to make a whole lot of money and you are invested.
But I think what really matters is where this goes in terms of this narrative and the possibilities that it presents on all those levels, whether it's loot boxes, whether it's card games, NFT collections that trade in conjunction with a token like they are now.
But you know, there's so many different levels to this thing.
It actually boggles the mind.
And I think we're in for a very interesting year in terms of how this thing unfolds irrespective of Pandora.
But I think Pandora is very much and potentially could be like another Pepe or another Sheba or another one of those in terms of the narrative and the difference here is that it's actually something that really can make a change in many ways.
I mean, imagine kind of like NFT markets and trading perps in this manner with this liquidity.
And I mean, it's just I think just the infrastructure players that are going to come out of this.
Anyways, I mean, that's what I'm seeing at the moment.
Yeah, imagine having OTC NFT transactions where you can trade NFTs directly for cash.
Like there's so much that can be done with them now.
I mean, I mean, this is going to do for NFTs with Wi-Fi and Aave did for DeFi.
I really strongly believe that.
I mean, this is really amazing.
The composability that now has been completely enabled is just it's it's it's mind-boggling.
I mean, it just takes the right people to come along.
I mean, it's what got me excited in the first place when I saw how it worked and how it like burned them into the NFTs.
I never thought I would get here.
But yeah, it's like what excited me because it brings liquidity on NFTs.
And there's like no way I mean, did you see the Binance thing that they're supporting BRC?
I was about to say BRC 20s.
I mean, they're going to support they're going to support BRC 20s as well.
I mean, isn't this the same as inscriptions and what's happening with Bitcoin in a way?
Like, I mean, obviously it's not the same thing, but it's potentially the same kind of like, you know, your maxis stepping out and saying, no, no, no, this is a problem.
Like you can't do this and gas costs are going to be astronomical and it's just not cool.
It's deviating from what the foundation would prescribe to and it's this it's potentially the same thing.
I think it's wonderful going to have people hating on each other in the next few weeks.
It's going to be hysterical.
Yeah, because it's like go for it there.
What do you think is taking the exchanges so long to start listing?
What do you think the holdup is on that?
Because Binance did just really announce their support for it.
But that's for their tweet.
Yeah, the tweet got deleted though.
I share it in the space like scroll.
It's the first tweet that I shared.
Maybe the intern made a mistake and they weren't supposed to announce it yet.
I think there's like a bit of because it's not recognized.
It's not like Etherscan wasn't recognizing it.
Blur took some time to integrate it.
Like it takes a bit of time to like adapt to this.
So I think they want to do that.
And then they also have to sync up with like the Pandora team because what they're doing
is they basically have like a function in the contract where they whitelist certain addresses
so that the NFT doesn't get minted.
So basically whenever you will send tokens to Binance, it won't mint NFTs for Binance
It will just like they'll just it will burn the NFTs and that's it and the NFTs will be
recreated when the tokens are withdrawn to like a regular address.
So I think that it takes a bit of time to like implement and like check and everything.
Plus, they also don't have audits yet.
Like they said they should be done soon, but they also don't have audits.
So I guess that maybe that influences stuff as well.
If you go to your deck screen, all right, and you go to the the security part on the on the bottom right,
there's an issue with you'll see there's a little red triangle that says an issue and it says it has a whitelist.
And that essentially is what you just described for everyone who's wondering what we're talking about.
So there is a functionality in this in this contract, which obviously allows you to bypass the minting of the NFT.
So just to recap for those who have just come in and you don't quite understand this is that one token equals one NFT.
If you own one token and you look in your wallet, you will see a Pandora's box.
If you have 0.9 of a token, you will not get an NFT.
If you add 0.1 to that 0.9 and make one token, you will have an NFT in your wallet.
In order for this thing to work on an exchange, you would not want NFTs to be minted.
It would effectively just be a token and then once it hits the wilderness again, it will then start minting NFTs.
There are rarities in the NFTs and this is a dynamic that I don't quite understand at this point in time in terms of just
understanding how you would say you get one of the rarest of these NFTs.
Does that now become a tradable item with its own price range separate to the token?
Do you know the answer to that, Dragos?
Wait, say again, if it's going to trade separate from the token, like price.
Yeah, so if you know, so you've got the rarest Pandora's box, right?
It's like there's I think there's a very small percentage of them and I think it's the gold ones.
I'm not sure the red ones, the other just the red ones.
So you want to keep the red one.
So does that red box now sell for more and opens?
So I actually quote unquote farmed a lot of red ones on the first day.
I don't think anyone was doing that.
But basically, I was just like sending and resending tokens from one address to the other to randomize them and get more red boxes.
But they're not really trading at a premium, to be honest.
They're like maybe like 10% higher, 15% higher and like it's
You can put like a bit to sell, like you can list it and then like the price pumps and you're selling it for like much cheaper.
There's like no clear premium.
Yeah, that happened to me.
Like I sold some boxes and then like instantly like bought them back on your swap.
But what I would say is I think I kind of screwed myself with that approach because I had initially I had like a lot of like red boxes in like I don't like 3000 because every NFT has a serial number, right?
And the serial number keeps going up.
So like when an NFT gets burned, it gets burned.
And then when it gets remitted, it gets remitted with the next serial number.
So I'm not even sure where we're at now because every trade of token, like every token trade burns NFTs and like remints them.
So I don't know maybe we're at like a hundred thousand.
I don't fucking know but I basically pushed the serial number on my NFTs much higher because I did that.
So he did say that it would be interesting if like the number one NFT or like whatever is still there.
So the serial numbers themselves might actually carry some weight.
So like imagine to have a low serial number, you either would have had to buy the NFT off the person or like just you would have had to like buy Pandora like in the first few minutes and like just never sold those tokens.
So once these actually start trading, I think that I don't think the rarities play a role now, but I think they will once these actually start trading.
I think another thing that's very interesting is that the fact that they're supposed to be 10,000 tokens correct and 10,000 NFTs that pair with them.
But we will never see 10,000 NFTs because so many people only have fractions of the tokens.
So I'm sure that means that we're actually going to only see maybe what 9,000 some change at best.
What do you think about that?
I think way less than that because there's also like the ones that are be like imagine all the tokens that will be on centralized exchanges from market making all the tokens that are in the Uniswap L people all the fractional ownership.
Like there's not like no one no one there's not going to be like a perfect distribution of like integer numbers.
You can take off like you can take off like thousands of NFTs just like that.
So that would make them even better, right?
Wouldn't that make them more desirable?
So that's that's what I'm thinking.
I'm thinking right now until the reveal there's not much difference between them, but I think post-reveal if it doesn't nuke that's when the NFTs might start like catching bits because of rarity.
Especially because once it lists on exchanges, that's going to be even more deflationary for literally think about it.
Every token that gets deposited on an exchange is an NFT burnt.
Like you might end up I don't know with like 2000 NFTs only or some shit like that, you know, and imagine out of those how many people are still holding their initial purchases like I'm not.
I'm definitely not all the people who got shaken out on that dip 12 hours in basically fucking burnt NFTs with like a thousand two thousand serial number.
Yeah, this is the ones the low serial numbers are going to be super super valuable.
I feel but I don't know if it gets like a like an NFT speculation frenzy as well.
Why the hell wouldn't it you've got the liquidity to support it?
I mean, this is exactly what it is that I was saying early on is that the levels that this thing potentially can create or this narrative can create is very interesting.
NFTs right now for me or they're not interesting to me anymore.
Like honestly like pudgy penguins.
They're really cool in the rest of it, but they should be that should be created in this in this space on this medium on this protocol.
I mean, this is the way that it needs to be.
Imagine being able to trade those things as popular as they are right now.
The volumes would be through the roof.
I don't know just does my head in thinking about it.
Yeah, dude, I agree and every time there's a new narrative like this and this is like on steroids.
This is like like everything going right for it.
I always say like whenever there's a wave like this it always goes way higher and last for longer than you ever imagined.
Not like I'm imagining it's going to go on for a year and it does that but like the best way that I've I framed it for myself because I've been on the other end of this where you're you miss out on
something or like you wanted to buy something you didn't buy it and then it like keeps going up and there's like people gloating about it on Twitter and you're like absolutely seething.
You're like fucking wanted to go down every time it dumps your euphoric.
I mean, that's what that's what being a bear is right?
Like that's that's basically why you guys.
It's like I remember in summer time like I was traveling but even before I was traveling like in June.
Unibot came out and I didn't even see it like that early.
It went all the way to $40 and I was like, oh fuck.
I missed it and then it like dumped like 30.
I was like, oh should I buy like a thousand unibots just so that you know, like it's like a nice round number and I could have bought it like it wasn't for me.
It wasn't like it was a decently like size trade like I do those trades all the time.
Like I usually put more and I didn't and then it fucking went to 200 something in the end.
Yeah, and I can't I can't describe to you.
I was like, that was the stupid.
Are you like everyone is using telegram telegram bots.
It's like a new meta a new narrative you fucking didn't buy it at like $30.
It was like pretty low market cap like all the other bots don't have a token.
This is literally the only thing that you can buy to get exposure to that and you didn't buy it.
I didn't capitulate in buying it, but it was really and I didn't I didn't have any robot and I didn't have any Harry Potter Obama Sonic.
You know, which were the three tokens that were moving during the summer like I really I really internalize that and I really thought about it and I told myself look, I'm never going to be fucking early.
Sorry, I'm never going to be scared to ape into a new narrative again, and that's why like I went super hard on friend tech.
Like everything that's new.
I'm like, okay, if it makes sense, let me ape it.
So like all the people who are not exposed to this are seeing all these tokens.
That's why all these other like 404 tokens are exploding because everyone's like they're not they faded Pandora at like two thousand four thousand six thousand ten thousand twenty thousand.
They keep buying the derivatives and all this stuff keeps fueling Pandora and until it gets to like a point where it's like way way way too big and too many people take
profits. It's not going to stop.
It always keeps on going.
It has to like kind of torment them for a bit, you know, for like a good amount.
They have to go for like really serious trauma.
It actually is like I actually think it's psychological trauma like in the Unibot really killed me last summer.
And I don't think it's been enough so far.
So yeah, that's how I look at it.
That's why I think it always if you think about it, it always goes and I've also been on the other side of this where I bought a lot of stuff last cycle, which ended up doing like crazy, crazy, crazy multiples and I sold after like a 5x or a 10x and like there's this token called XOR.
I bought it like at like two dollars.
I sold it like six dollars fifteen dollars twenty five dollars most of my stack then summit.
I had like 20 percent left.
I sold like 10 percent at like 60 and the last 10 percent at 120 and it and it went to like 800 or something and I was like, dude, you sold most of it at like for like a 10x and the shit went like 400x.
So whenever there's something like this that catches so much hype.
It always you can never tell how early you are like Jedi Jedi thought that I was like, oh shit, I'm too late.
And he quit he quit the telegram group.
I wrote my thread and I was like, dude, what do you mean?
I even replied to you on like the project telegram, but I think you had to quit the group.
I don't know if you even saw that and I was like, bro, you're not.
There's no way you're late.
So like you can never tell how early you are, right?
Obviously, I read your thread and I ate in like a soccer.
Yeah, like but lots of stuff can start like this and then it just fizzles out and you lose all your money.
So it's this is not a rule, you know, but this is like one of those times when it's actually something that takes all the attention in the space.
So it's definitely got the attention.
I mean all of the fires is being is being beaten on on the head with the sticker in terms of liquidity.
That's interesting what's playing out.
All right, shall we end it there?
I don't know if anyone wants to come up and give comment to ask any questions very happy to.
Oh, yeah, I can I can stay on for like another 10 minutes and then I have to go.
Yeah, so I just want to give the opportunity.
It's don't want it to be a one-sided thing.
So if anyone wants to come up and tell us how this thing is just the worst thing or the best thing you're very welcome to do that.
Otherwise, we've got quite a few people in here.
I'm glad you guys enjoyed us pantering away.
I hope you didn't was and you know been really cool.
Well guys looks like we're going to wrap it up.
Someone someone requested.
Wait, he's still connecting.
I'm adding them as speakers.
Hey guys, how's it going?
I heard first heard about this from Jedi and I'm like, oh, okay.
Pretty much Ape then and a little bit later, but it's all right.
But what I liked about it was from what I've understood initially was that it kind of opens up the door for
a lot of liquidity from other people that aren't necessarily going to be able to afford an expensive NFT.
So they can like keep saving up for something like a, you know, part of a coin until they get one full coin.
And I think that's really cool.
It's it's a it's brand new, you know, so imagine like you kind of own part of an Ape.
So say for instance, Ape coin did that, you know, they would probably be way more popular if they are like, okay, if there's a certain amount if they save that for one whole Ape coin that would really attract a lot of people.
And also when it comes to like I knew we weren't too late like when I was like buying it like I think it was a thousand and then ten thousand or whatever.
All you have to do is look at the market cap and there's so many crappy coins out there with billion dollar market caps.
I'm like, wow, there's this is actually something that's useful for people.
So I mean, that's one thing.
I don't look at the price is in to to think, okay, this is expensive or not.
I look at the market cap and I mean anything we're in a bull market.
So at the top of last bull market, there wasn't anything under like what ten billion dollars in the top one hundred.
So this is this was that like a hundred million fifty million.
I mean, when I first got on I think was nineteen million.
I'm like, oh, this is pretty cheap.
But then I went to a hundred million whatever and I still think it's cheap.
You know, this will be probably a couple billion dollar market cap before you know it.
You know, especially if this is a brand new what do you call it a narrative.
So yeah, that's what I have to say.
Did you're a hundred percent correct?
And that's nice to meet you, Toby.
Dragos is losing his mind when he when he said two billion.
Yeah, please don't don't.
Yeah, please don't throw those numbers at me guys.
Don't don't do that to me.
Okay, let's take it one day at a time.
I mean this whole thing about earning part of it and being able to save up.
I mean, it's been kind of like a conversation around Bitcoin, you know, being the one the one Bitcoin Bitcoin.
And it's the same with with NFTs that, you know, will end up having potential a lot of liquidity behind them.
And you know, people are dismissive of that market, but it's a market that exists and it's going to continue doing well.
And I think this is just another way to be able to deliver it in spades and in a better way.
So yeah, it's it's fucking cool and I'm super stoked and looking forward to what how this thing plays out.
Yeah, I think this would have been like way higher market cap if the liquidity was lower, but not as sustainable.
So that's something to bear in mind as well.
But I think one thing that I think it's very clever what they did because normally, you know, how people want stuff to launch with low liquidity so it can pump faster.
That would pump it faster.
But as I like as I explained before, like it wouldn't it wouldn't realize as much value for most people.
But I think what's what's really intelligent with what these guys did because they launched it with and they prioritize liquidity.
It becomes appealing for everyone because all of a sudden, like crypto whales exchanges, every big player in the crypto space feels like they can buy size that actually satisfies them.
Like look at the liquidity.
You will never see a project like this on a deck that you can buy with this much liquidity.
So all of a sudden, like and it's and it's on Ethereum, right?
Like the place that the chain where like all the whales like the biggest whales reside.
So like these guys, they never really have tokens that they can buy with size on chain because there's like very few tokens that actually have this kind of liquidity.
So they're very clever that they did it this way because they made it appealing for all these guys.
And I'm sure that's one of like a huge reason why they actually get so much interest from so many parties, right?
Because if you're like Binance or like OKX or whatever, you also want to accumulate the coin before you list it, right?
Like it just makes sense.
That's what they do. And it would be way, way, way harder if it didn't have the liquidity that it has.
So yeah, I tried to add the other guy, but the crypto guy, but the guy crypto, but for some reason, I accept him and it doesn't work like it doesn't connect him as a speaker.
Is there anyone else that wants to step on stage or do we rug this?
All right, let's do this.
Maybe next week again, we'll be spontaneous as always.
Thanks for tuning in, guys.