What's up guys? Maybe we can wait just a minute. Well, I spread this around to various discord and get people in here. Hey everyone, how's it going? GMGM GMGM indeed. Yep, doing the same as well, who sharing it in some
program groups and some discord. Kind of a lot of people that are hyped about MetaFab that did not know about MetaFab before, so I'm excited. Yeah, it's kind of like time to learn about the MetaFabs. Yep.
the world in my opinion. It's good time. I agree to agree. There are a lot of games actually that we've spoken to that basically described Metaphab and talk about it and they're like hey wouldn't it be cool something like that existed and I'm like wait have you heard of Metaphab and yeah it's a lot of them are usually
pleasantly surprised. So yeah, that's nice. And I'm going to make a strategic decision here. I'll join back on the Medefab account. Awesome. Oh, yeah. And then you got Arck joining us as well. I hope you're joining his account. He's joining up now. I'm very excited. There he is.
Hey, all right. I'll be back in a sounds good sounds good Man, it's a it's a whirlwind day, too. It's like we got hyper SDK logo. That's right. Yeah, it's like busy day and now we got met up have this is it's a good day. It's a good day for sure it
It does feel like a good day. Also core. That's right. I should probably talk about these things again a little bit, but I am still like catching up. You know, it's funny working at a company like Avalat. You're like keeping up yourself with all the the updates. Like the marketing is a little bit for you too. Agreed. Agreed. It used to be a little different, right? Like where, you know, before#
was always in the loop but now there's too many things happening which is which is a great problem to have. Yeah, for sure I could see that. I mean a lot of a lot of blockchain went from like oh it's cool it's a blockchain we're gonna do transactions on it. I was suddenly you have like gaming vertical and NF
D5 and it's all like different That's good stuff this year. All right, I'm gonna find one more tweet to pin here Before we get started. That's good How's going Ark good to have you up here. Hey, thanks for having me Awesome
some more people tuning in. Really excited to see. See that crypto nod you just came in the audience. Awesome. I'm watching turns there. Got Joe, got Parker, got a lot of the folks. Yes, tuning in. All right, cool. Well, I think we can get started.
Let's kick it off with just quick introductions who we have on the mic and then I want to talk a little bit about how you guys got into gaming after that. So I'm Coup, I'm helping to run growth for gaming on Avalanche and that's all you need to know.
Awesome. Coop is very modest. Coops like Jack of all trades and he's doing a little bit of everything for the gaming team. So I don't know. I think he's modest for sure. And if it wasn't for him, I don't think I think we'd have a lot of high quality avalanche games, but not that many people would know about it. So yeah, Coops kind of growing things, growing everything there.
So myself, been at the AWB Labs Busy Dev team for just under two years. Started on the infrastructure on Deep Eyes side, but it's always been a lifelong gamer. So I've been on the gaming team for the last year, helping grow the gaming ecosystem. But we'll throw it over to the MetaFab team. They're the stars of the show, and what I especially highlight, they're awesome backgrounds, and what they're up to at#
Awesome. Yeah, I mean I go by ARC Dev. I originally have done stuff in the Web2 kind of gaming space. One of the companies I exited back in 2016 was in the gaming space. I've been doing startups for a while. Been in crypto for a long time too, as a hobbyist and now
since NFT worlds as a project founder. Yeah, ended up building Metafa about based on our experience, building NFT worlds and just wanting to see these web3 blockchain-based games hit the mainstream and provide all the tools for developers to do so.
Sweden, who do we have behind the Metaphab account?
Iran. What's going on? I'll be more of a fly on the wall. ARCH is great to listen to. I do a lot on the growth, ops, business development side at Metaphab. Really appreciate the Abelunch team having us up here. It's been awesome to work with you over the last few weeks as we've been kicking off.
going live on avalanche and it's exciting to start merging the two communities and talking about what we can do together so thanks again for having us up. Yeah thank you. All right well I always like to kick things off it's just something a little more personal you know we can get a little boring if we just stick to the tech sometimes
and loser, loser audience. So let's talk about how we got started in gaming. And I can already tell I'm going to make art that I've speak for a while because it sounds very interesting. But maybe just like, you know, what was your gaming origin story and then specifically working in gaming. And I'll kick it off.
I think my very first memories of gaming were actually Diablo. I don't know who gave a kid, maybe like six, seven year old kid access to Diablo, but that was it. I was running around killing demons as a child and I just
so vividly then remember the dial-up internet kicking in and playing online and I was just so like enraptured by the experience playing with other people and accomplishing things together and I think from that time on I was constantly playing a video game.
And then from there, I think getting into working in video games is really interesting because I never thought I would be able to. I gave up on a dream of coding early on. Eventually, when tokens started to become a thing in gaming, I saw this option and I just jumped into a guild and started working
in it before moving to Avalyps. So that's kind of how I got here today. McKeal, what is your first gaming experience? I don't even know the answer to this. I'm excited to hear it. I got to give this a thought, actually. And a cool story and explains a lot about you now, Cooper. Your first experience was the upload. Good job.
But yeah, my first gaming experience probably not as not as exciting not as exciting I would say but it was playing called duty world at war at an older brother of an older friend's house I was not supposed to be playing this but my
parents weren't too happy about it. But it was my first experience. And I was really interested in it because there was a sort of rich, deep online multiplayer space. A lot of people were really excited about it. A lot of esports folks were involved early on. It wasn't a formal esports, but it was really cool. There's just a bunch of people who are enthusiastic
that just got together and got competitive and I always thought that was super exciting and I think that sort of pushed my interest into gaming that it's just like a whole other world that you can learn about the same sort of things about like examples where that I learned about derivatives I learned about trading I learned about like some
I learned about how supply shocks will affect the price all through gaming. People would be like, "Oh, this new skin dropped and now everybody's getting it." It's not as valuable, even if it wasn't to the word in talking about monetary value, but they were talking about cosmetic value. That was my first experience.
And then from there I was hooked but interested here the Metaphab's team. I think they'll have a very interesting answer Also, that's a classic. I remember telling my parents in high school. I'm learning about economics through the auction house Please tell me play that was my that was my justification as well
Alright, Arck, what's the most you're sorry? That's awesome. My co-founder, Tim Trinkle, he is big kind of intro into economics and stuff, was the Wild World Warcraft Auction House, I think. So it's funny to hear someone. Sorry. Yeah, for me, I think my first
experience with games and development was actually Starcraft. I think maybe at the time I got on the Starcraft I was like 9 or 10, but I had some prior programming experience. I never really built like tangible games and like fun stuff before, but
StarCraft back in the day had this map editor system where you could go in and build custom maps and all these custom game modes on top of StarCraft for other people to play on BattleNet. And so I just, I love doing that. I would build games all the time. Like I would use that programming knowledge I have back then.
to actually make like these tangible experiences and create stories
and stuff using just like the StarCraft RTS, making games all through my younger years, my teenage years, everything from like the Nintendo stuff, PlayStation, Final Fantasy, all these different types of games series. The company I was mentioning back in
2015, 2016 that I built in the gaming space was actually Poké radar. If you guys played Pokémon GO back in the day when it first came out, there was a radar app that everyone used like where to find Pokémon. That was, yeah, it was one of the
people who built that. And that was a pretty wild experience because we went from zero to I think 15 or 16 million daily active users in like one or two weeks. But I ended up getting acquired by a company called BlueMobile, which was part of getting, I think they were acquired by Activision like 2020, but
Back in 2016-2017, I was merged into the team there after the acquisition. And I basically ran a small scunkwork studio where we pumped up a bunch of early stage game mechanic demos and play test-type ideas.
before their actual studios would take them and run with them. So we were like the ones who are like the first to build their like new ideas for game mechanics and game systems. And then yeah, from there, there's some Minecraft mixed in as well in there, running Minecraft server, building Minecraft game modes, stuff like that.
I did up fiddling. Oh, hello. Can you hear me? Sorry, sorry. I think we had a little bit of lag, but I want to want to hear more about the the Minecraft.
It was a fewer yeah tell me more about that was there was there a specific actual project in there Yeah, no specific project more just like rutting servers for friends and like friends and friends and
up like that, but I would grab around to play different game modes, different enemy mechanics. Fun stuff like that. And I dabbled Minecraft since 2012 or 2013 doing a lot of that stuff.
Very great. It's so cool to hear about. I feel like so much came from those Starcraft and Warcraft like modding days where you could you know create your own game type like literally double
Yeah, it was it was so powerful just like the ability to have a pretty much ready to go game engine and you just make like the unit interactions and the logic and stuff on top of it. It was it was fantastic Yeah, it really was alright. He ran
What's your origin? I remember standing in line at GameStop waiting for the new call of duties to come out. That's probably the earliest memories that I have with video games. Then I got really into battlefield. That was my big one. I kind of grew up on the first-person shooters.
being my jam. But minecraft. What's happening now? Same here, man. I remember all the lines for Call of Duty. I think the lines and the hype started dying down after some of the later modern warfare, but I remember that waiting in all of those game stop lines.
That was that was the best. I mean, I remember I would I mean I would even skip school. I don't know why my dad let me do that But yeah, I mean, I would be like oh, yeah, call duties coming out like there's no school. It's a national holiday So we'd go wait in line and you know have her long a took and then of course, you know the rest of the day was spent playing it a lot of#
A lot of fun. And then Minecraft as well really stole my heart too. I used to build different server spawns for people. How to group that, you know, we would we would design like pretty grandiose server spawns and then also when tech it came out we would do different
adventure maps and sell those in the marketplace. So nothing technical but all build related. So yeah, it was a lot of fun. That's some of the some of my fond memories in video games I'd say. What's the big fan of both the TechEd mod pack and the HexEd mod packs? That's super cool.
that you did that there. Actually, that was something always fascinated me about Minecraft and that was one of the things that got me interested in Web3, so many mod packs, so many creative folks building all these different things and there was a, it was very weird how some of the sort of business models worked. Most of it was never monetized.
or was purely based on partnerships with servers and then having some sort of revshare agreement with MVPs, but even then it was usually not that at all. So, cool that you're involved in the tech. I had no idea about that, but that was one of the top tier mod packs that I definitely used.
Alright, yeah, I love those origin stories. It's kind of funny how we say like that the time is in line at GameStop, which you would mostly like if you heard you were in line for something you think that's a negative experience, but for almost everyone who was into those games it was a fond memory of like, oh yeah, remember being in
line like waiting for the lease. Like it was the hype of the release driving that but just an interesting experience that so many people share. I don't even know what the new experience is for that but okay that's that was great. So, Arck why don't you give us just an introduction to Metaphab itself.
Yeah, sure thing. So Metaphab is kind of like a service that resulted out of our own needs when we're building NFT worlds. So with NFT worlds we were setting out and we still are to build this. Originally it was this Metaverse layer on top of Minecraft since Minecraft like
need a ton of sense with the way they have their server architecture set up and everything like that. And so we went ahead and needed a bunch of tech from wallet abstraction to things like candlelight game currencies, like cross-chain solutions, stuff like that. None of the services really had it.
So we had to build all of the things ourselves rather than trying to cobble a bunch of different services that different pieces together to work And so yeah come back to July 2022 and Microsoft like band all the blockchain stuff. We've since went ahead and started building our own game and
But the side from that was we took the tech split it out into a service anyone could use called Meta Fab and we've since been building kind of like this chain agnostic Super set of solutions for any game developer to come in and have all the tools in different
building blocks they need to launch games on top of blockchain without any of the pain points of like doing low-level validity development. We're having to deal with like building wallet abstraction systems or making wallet abstraction systems that actually work in practice and not in theory. And so yeah, it's kind of where we are with this
That's crazy. So what was the Minecraft world? It was an NFT world? Yeah, NFT world. So NFT world was like, we took Minecraft as kind of quote unquote our engine, like if you think about
Like Minecraft servers can have custom mod packs and like plugins and things loaded in them. We basically distribute like custom plugins that would allow you to do NFT verification or like token gating for futures and game.
So, you can find game currency called world token that you could use by cell earn as a player in game across all these different worlds that were in our quote unquote ecosystem for NFT worlds. And then a game launcher that showed you like all the NFT world enabled Minecraft servers that supported like
your world token, the world token that we had so that you could use it to transact and earn and sell and buy in those different worlds and take your NFTs across all these different worlds and these different Minecraft services and for different things, stuff like that. Okay, so looking back on that experience
like how do you feel now? Because I imagine that could be pretty, well, insane that you have this great ecosystem building and then one day it's kind of like shut off, but you're your months out, if not year from that, how do you feel at this point?
Yeah, I mean I think honestly it's probably better in hindsight I think and we're going to continue to look at it this way that it did happen It sucks that it did because it put like an immediate just like hard stop on all the progress we interaction We're getting in like the snowball we've been rolling down the hill for months and months at that point I think we had like something
I got 100,000 monthly active players and something like 10 or 20,000 weekly active players at that point, which is pretty for like a web 3 game that's pretty significant. And so like, yeah, looking back now, I think it's given us the ability to one not have to deal with that looming like uncertainty.
Microsoft even though they had like up until that point been like yeah we don't really care what you guys are doing like it's fine up until the point they just out of nowhere rugdust but it gives us the ability to kind of fordrow and destiny and not be exclusively limited to just the Minecraft engine whereas like now we're building out our own that's inspired by Minecraft and kind of has taken this approach of
Let's take Minecraft and let's bring it into the 2020s and not stuck in this early 2010 type S game that never really evolved from its core like implementation and so I think there's a lot of opportunity for the future and we're excited the game engine and the new game client is looking really really good Yeah
I was thinking you would say that, and I can imagine how traumatic it was at the time, but you're clearly in a cool spot now with a couple of very distinct paths. Yeah, Nikhil, what's up? I was actually the whole Minecraft thing for Microsoft reminds me of something
I see Joe in the audience right now. I can't name the name of this project, but there's this really exciting Minecraft project as well. They're much smaller than NFT worlds, of course, but doing something similar with the cool Minecraft server. I can't hear Nikhil. I'm not sure if he's speaking. Oh, shoot.
You guys hear me now? I actually saw that. I can I can hear you. Let me I'll try and leave and rejoin. I've had Twitter faces do this before. That's it fix it or if you just let me murder join Yeah, let's try again. Yeah Elon Musk rubbing us. Yeah
You want that sucks? Can you guys hear me? I Can hear you, or can you hear anybody can hear me? Oh, yeah, yeah, nice nice. Yeah, I must be just you know you all I'm looking at some Microsoft's not the only one that's not you want to see this is why we need web 3 right guys this is why we're doing this but uh
Yeah, but no, I was just saying got you know I remember the when Microsoft came up the announcement there was this project that Joe and I were really excited about they were excited to build on avalanche but the same thing You know they got they got hit hard by the announcement but the interesting thing about you guys is that you you made a really cool shift where you guys were you know part of
or nothing. There are all these web-through gaming SDKs, now all these web-through gaming as a services there. How do you guys feel MetaFab sort of falls into this large ocean? And why did you guys build some of these key features that are this important to you? Because I think I have some of this context and that's why I find MetaFab
interesting but you know we'd love to hear from you guys. Yeah of course I mean I think for us the biggest thing was we before building our own solutions ourselves we had tried like Stardust and Fracto I think had an early SDK at the time and a few other is and like the solutions were just they're
either very fragmented or very early or it was very clear that like the way the API's that they had created an SDKs just weren't developed in a way that made sense from like a game developer consumption standpoint. It was almost like a lot of these services were building solutions like trying to best guess what game devs need but they weren't actually in
the position of being the developers themselves and recognizing from the other side of the table what is actually necessary. And the other thing too is like we ran into the problem of even though some of these SDKs sort of worked, sort of didn't work or like may have not been implemented how we felt was right, like we tried to cobble some of them together multiple
services because no one had like a single solution that worked for everything we needed and just making all the custom logic and all the custom infrastructure to just tie these different services together. It really sucked and it just became this like spaghetti mess of trying to make these things interoperate. And so we're just like, well, we're just going to build our own solutions of this
point. Like we know from a Minecraft player perspective what they need, what they need to be able to do in game and like what the friction barrier has, how low it has to be in order to get these players to actually start playing in the ecosystem. And so we kind of set out and built the systems both with like our
own consumption in mind, like how we as game developers wanted to consume the systems, as well as the end result we are looking for from the player consumption standpoint. What are the actions we want to see players be able to easily take without having any confusion? So these are things like end game transactions using the currency of
they earn, like, recognizing the digital collectibles that they're earning as NFTs for their wallet, stuff like that. And yeah, that's kind of what's been our guiding set of principles is just being focused on as a game developer, what is actually necessary, and also from a player standpoint, like, what actually makes sense for player UX.
Do you think, we talk about this internally sometimes that tools like Metaphab seem incredibly important for the next wave of games that are coming to Avalanche and to Web 3 in general because the longer we go on, the more non-natives we
to come and they need a lot more help. But like so far, a lot of the games that are developing come from Web 3 Native people, Web 3 Native developers who, I don't know, do they need as much handholding or do you think there's going to be a big shift in the type of developers that
They're coming to web 3 gaming in the near future. What we see is really interesting. We have studios that are composed and solves of existing developers who have like solidity and web 3 type experience. But even those studios using our API, they find like the development
for consumption for them and like the ease of use versus just writing like low level stuff with web3js or ethers.js or even writing like slitted contracts and everything themselves is that it makes it much quicker for them to get like proof of concepts implemented for different item systems, different game currencies using ours as a building block and
using our APIs to create the custom functionality rather than having to write low-level smart contract systems and deploy them and redeply them and retest them and all these different things. So their time to getting something live is significantly decreased and that's been a big plus for them. And then on the more traditional side, we run
games pretty actively with just indie devs that are only pretty much web 2 background we've never touched blockchain games and we find that like they come into building these systems on top of the Metafab tech and it's just really easy for them to consume and it sparks their interest in seeing like oh there's this big open space with
this large demand for fun games, but no one's really building them yet. And it's this easy for me to build these solutions like I as an indie dev want to start making my games on top of this and like I want to use Mata Fab. So it's kind of a both sides of the table. Very interesting. So even yeah, even the web three native games, they just they gain a lot of speed and
Yeah, exactly. And it kind of comes back to the thing like the systems that we build are like table stakes systems that pretty much any game is going to use one or more of the different products we have. And the implementation is going to be very, very similar instead of you spending two or three weeks to do
yourself you're spending an hour or two to read through our docs and like deploy it so it saves a ton of time and it just lets you focus on building the game the stuff that actually matters for what you're doing yeah all right this is a little bit of a sidestep from maybe like the core of MetaFab but you said you have you run game jams what's that up about like what do you do how do you do
Yeah, hey, maybe we could partner and do one with Alvin and the future is a side note. Yeah, so we launch game jams like roughly every 45 days. We just finished our second one through a platform called itch. Itch is like a game jam.
We have a lot of different game jams and contests. We have these
for a second third top-place top game gets a certain amount of dollars but they have to implement the Metafab systems in a couple of different ways and beyond that just make a fun game that uses the solutions. Each Jam we've held is primarily composed of developers we've never touched blockchain before.
and they get bigger and bigger each time so it's been a fun thing. This is just new to me as a marketer and really someone new to the gaming industry. What happens with those games that are developed through a jam? Do they go on to become incubated and keep going or do they just kind of like move on to their next project?
Yeah, it's a little bit of everything. We found a lot of the developers from the feedback is that when they think about blockchain games, we ask them, "Would you want to use Metaphab again?" It's pretty much unanimous, yes. The games that are built, some of them are kind of just proof of content.
I proof a play they don't really have a future so the devs just build them for the competition and to kind of experience the solutions. And then we have some that are like going out to be built out into more kind of a actually launched web 3 base games that'll probably come out in the next couple quarters.
And then we also have developers who participated in the game jam and then they're like, "Wow, I really want to make a blockchain-based game now. This stuff was fun. I'm going to scrap my game jam project I spent a week on and I'm going to actually build a really fun idea that I have with my head that's more of a long-term project using MetaFab."
Awesome. Also adding on to that quickly, a lot of times these indie developers also work for studios. This is something that they do kind of in their free time. And so it's a good way to introduce them and the studios that they work for to the tools, even if that studio is not necessarily considering Web 3.
some good real estate to occupy in their minds for when they do end up making that entrance. There was a game that came out of this most recent game jam called Miss Marbles, which is a really fun unique take on what is that called? What's the shuffle on shuffleboard?
using marbles where you have to knock the other marbles off and there are they are actively seeking proposals to build that out into a full game as well. So they've had publisher interest and oftentimes other games
studios that are using Metaphab, look to those games and those game developers and say, hey, I want to work with that person. Can you connect me? So it's also a good way to get them exposure for anyone who might be hiring.
Yeah, sounds kind of genius in terms of networking. So show off some skills, get acquainted with Web3 and meet a bunch of people who are doing the same things. So back to the matter of having more closely.
What does it look like to actually work with MetaFab? I mean is it is it like a hands-on experience once you're you say like I want to integrate Web 3 or I'm already going to and I need this tool like do you just sign up and and there's a login or what's that experience like?
Oh, sorry, there we go. I don't know. My mic was acting weird. Yeah, the experience is pretty much like if you come to the Metafab website, there's a few points of entry.
can and we find this is the most common approach as a developer. You can come in, sign up for a developer account, and then you pretty much are just tossed into some quick start, get started guides, as well as our API documentation, and you can just hit the ground running.
There's also tutorials and guides and stuff there as well. If you are like a studio, maybe considering that a fab or you're a developer that is actively wanting to build your game, but you maybe want a little bit more high touch support, we do
Telegram kind of support groups for any developers as well as we have a public discord where all the other developers who have used that of Abar so you can find support and community there as well or Get in touch with us to have kind of like one or one support for different needs and solutions that you might want
got it. I'm looking at your Twitter right now and reading this thread about ecosystems. Is that a specific different product? What is that all about? That's a fun one. So you guys are familiar with TreasureDow right? Yes. So yeah. So originally
when we built Metaphab, the way we had set up the infrastructure was like, if you're building a game like all your player accounts are isolated to that game and like all your assets are isolated to that game by default, and like there's no interoperability. Like if you want to play two different games, you're going to have a player account for each game as a player, you're going to have a login password for all
them stuff like that. What Treasure Wanted is, they really liked all the solutions we had, but they needed a way to have something where a player could create a Treasure Account one time, kind of like a root ecosystem of a account, right? Like the Treasure ecosystem. I have my Treasure Player account.
And I can use that as a sign-in with treasure for any game that I play, so that one I don't have to ever deal with metamass pop-ups or wallet pop-ups. To I have a kind of a frictionless, more traditional implementation of login registration, sign-in, and single sign-on across all these games as a player.
In 3, the games have a standard way to interoperate and enable different asset sharing, asset access, magic currency access across all these different games. So it makes it better for players. It gives treasure a level of network effects across all these games because now they have a single sign-on option across many
different game cartridges that just further entrench their ecosystem. And it brings a lot of different possibilities for interoperability. And all of that's built on top of the frictionless tech we have, so you don't even have to deal with transactions for those accounts, or pop-ups, or metamask, or anything. And that's for both managed wallets and EOAs, so you can do all that so frictionlessly.
So how do we get that for avalanche? I mean, is there a way that that works in a less centralized system where we have you know we have avid domains which is just they have a product yeah tell me about that.
Yeah, I mean, there's a bunch of different ways to do it. We have game studios, they have like two or three different games, they're launching like they're signing with their quote unquote, whatever the game studio name is. There's the treasure example for avalanche. I mean, you guys could launch in like some, I don't know, something like an avalanche gaming division and players could just
sign up for an avalanche gaming account and by default all of the games building on avalanche can have single sign on through like avalanche gaming through like the ecosystems product and that means that players don't have to deal with accounts setup for multiple games on avalanche they have one single avalanche gaming account
All their assets are tied and secured through in a way that allows both your games and your network to onboard mainstream players because they don't have to deal with the wallet pain points, they don't have to deal with any of the permissioning pain points, stuff like that. And it makes a standardized way for asset and our operability across all the games as well.
What is required to connect that kind of a system? It's really fast and easy. I could set up a demo for you guys after the call. What a quote-unquote avalanche integration could look like, and I could probably do it in less than 30 minutes.
Alright, that's pretty crazy. I think once you see it, you'll recognize the potential of it. We think that a lot of big organizations or businesses could be built on top of that system, just because it ties in so much stuff between interoperability, network effects,
frictionless player on board and user on board across an ecosystem lots of cool stuff. Yeah 100%. I mean, I actually think something that we've been trying to explore with with a lot of different game studios was the idea of them utilizing their own network to you know, you know, basically cross out the
between their various different games, use a single sign on so that way any titles that they acquire, any businesses they work with, they're able to. - I think I might have lost audio again. I don't hear anyone talking. - Oh, no audio, clear. - Is my audio clear, Cooper? - I can hear you. - I can hear you as well.
Oh man, maybe maybe if I leave and come back Maybe that might work. Yeah. Oh man. Elon roking one more time. That's that's two times. I guess I mean it can't stop the avalanche gaming train though. So even if Elon tries to rug us can't stop. All right.
Well, I have you then. What I was basically saying was that we're working with a lot of studios and they're basically what exactly describe they're trying to build that before subnets essentially where they have their own respective titles for their games They have all the games that they're even partnered with any games that they may have even acquired
and having them all in one subnet, use one, you know, gas token, and then they use a single sign on solution as well. So that way, the second that you're on, you're able to, you know, basically access all the different games. And it's cool because then, you know, by accessing one game, you know, if they want to cross sell you to, you know, several other games, they can basically air drop you#
you know items for that. Let's say you started playing the RPG games and they want to start pivoting you over to, I don't know, maybe RTS games. They'll say, "Hey, if you played this RPG game that we developed for over a year, you'll get a free skin air drop." And you can play these games for free on
for RTS and you'll have the most elite skin from the very start. So I think it's really cool that you had mentioned that and I'm excited for more people to explore this because I don't think anyone has properly executed on it but there are a lot of people trying to design something and yeah I see a hand up.
Yeah, this is something I thought about in my own head so it might not sound good if I put it out in words But it's similar to a credit card model where like you know you as a as a consumer can have multiple different credit cards and there might be a reason why you want to mace these credit cards
or an American Airlines credit card, right? And you're getting rewards and points and different perks and benefits from having these different accounts. And then of course like Visa is kind of like powering all of it regardless. And so it goes to exactly what you were saying, and DeKell, which
is a game studio now can almost like issue their own credit card if you will their own login product and not only allowed the games within their own ecosystem to operate within it but also you know build and bake in different passport opportunities or code mark
getting opportunities with other games and since it's all built on the same rails it all just works together extremely, extremely well and seamlessly. Yeah, you said passport there like that we are thinking about as Apple answer, Avalabs help.
put together an event that ties all these games together in a fun way where there's some rewards for playing all these maybe achieving certain things and certain games and being able to do that all from like one naming service and one connected account would be really cool.
Yeah, I mean, that's pretty much exactly like what we built. And it's done in such a way that you don't have to deal with the nontraditional flows that most people aren't going to be familiar with from the regular gaming world, like the Metamass, the popups, the understanding approvals and all that stuff.
Yeah, I think there's a lot of interesting synergy here like that we should be upon later. You know, this just came to mind as like we're talking about it, but what if I wanted to like experience what a great meta-fab integration looks like like what the power that this all enables so that the gaming
experience is really smooth. Like, who is a good game for us to look at? Yeah. I think there's some really great games from our last game, Jim. I could send you after this. There's some really, really fun ones. The bigger studios that have like the really quality polished AAA titles that are being built, none of them are
live yet as far as like game launch like their implementation with Meta Fab from what we've seen in the back and it's pretty much done but like they're still building their game out right. But I think if we send you some of like these indie or like small studio type games that have like launched a version it would be it would be pretty indicative of like what the tech is
And it feels just like a regular game but with like you have a wallet and you have your assets but all the interactions in game are nothing like crypto. It just feels like a game from that point on. There's actually somebody who was set like a game devote to and then their response was I'm sorry I don't see any any block
change here. So I don't know where can you explain it. Like what like they were like, "Berry's there." Like we don't want to work with you because you sent us a non crypto game. I was like, wait, it's back up here for a minute. This is like fully metafab integrated. It was pretty funny exchange. Yeah, I do remember that one. I thought that was so funny.
Yeah, that's great. I mean, that's sort of what Web2Gamers want to feel like, right? I think we all know there's huge barriers to the way Web2Gamers think about Web3. So I'm pretty convinced that it's got to be an experience like that that opens their mind where they just get in and feel it's a game and then also
someone's like, "Oh yeah, you can sell that thing," or whatever the Web 3 benefit is and they just have it and didn't even realize. Yep, exactly. Yeah. Well, what else is on your plate? Like for Metaphab or the other division, we haven't really talked about that in a way your
building on the other side. Yeah, I mean the more like exciting features on the meta-fab side that are coming out is we have a stripe powered cache on your solution for like all the chains that are I think most of the chains I have to double check and see which ones were supporting with them in partnership out of the box.
But yeah, games will be able to cache on ramp players through a solution that takes like 50 minutes to set up and it all just works with the wall solutions. We have the item systems, all the game currencies. And so your players can like pay to buy NFTs or pay to buy game currency, things like that through a straight powered cache on ramp portal.
Yeah, that's an exciting one coming Awesome, that's really cool and you know with that I think one of the big things and this is something that the gaming team spends a lot of time with with games is that they want a seamless experience right they want that how they describe it that's seem like experience where you have you know users with
with a sophisticated wall solution seamless via on ramp and ideally though it's not really been figured out maybe even an off ramp solution as well and there's not that many people have figured it out so it's great that you're working with a striped sort of power solution to work on something along those lines because I think that's really important and we've been
We've been working very heavily to make sure that on-prem solutions are incorporating subnets and making it as easy as possible so that the shrapnals of the world and the various different, even the meta-doses of the world in these various different gaming subnets are well equipped. The user never has to know if they don't want to about the blockchain part of it.
Yeah, exactly. I mean, I think to the to the on-ramp side too, like in people still figuring it out, I think Stripe has it right and it just has to do with the network effects that they have. I think one of the biggest pain points that I don't know if it's been realized at scale yet would stuff like
MoonPair, other cash on ramp solutions that aren't striped, but the KYC process is kind of a pain in the butt, and it can be depending on both your location as a player and other legal things related to where you are. But with the Striped solution, the way their crypto on ramp solution works is if you've ever
purchase anything or interacted and bought anything through any website that had straight payments integrated and used the credit card and like your name and other info before to purchase there. You're automatically I think KYC by default for these crypto on-rapp solutions we're about to
to launch for any purchase is under $500 on a single transaction if I remember. So like you don't even have to deal with the KYC stuff for players coming into these crypto games anymore with a striped solution because most of them are going to be like automatically KYC by previous purchase history on non-web3 stuff.
Oh, interesting. I didn't know that. Nikhil. Yeah, that's what I was going to say. That's super interesting and a great problem to solve because there are several Beyond Ramp solutions. I'm not sure if I should name them because I'm not bashing them. It's just an unfortunate reality. There's so many regions that there's
for example, it's not supported in Texas or it's not supported in the APAC region. Or if it is in these very different regions, there's several hoops that you need to hop through. So that's super cool and really interesting that you're able to make that experience more seamless by like, if there is past payments, there's no need for
for KYC, which is definitely really interesting. And for the average user, they're likely probably not going to be spending more than $500, which is, you know, so that's definitely really cool. Yeah, exactly. All right. So you guys are relatively new to Apple Ranch. I really don't even know the story. I think, Nikhil, you worked with them to get that
But that's relatively new, right? And what are you guys thinking about for avalanche? Yeah, relatively new. I'm really excited about avalanche specifically from the way that the subnet's work and also like the scalability side of things. I do think that one of the issues especially is a lot of these web3games start to get up and down.
going and seeing traction is that these games that are launching on L2s like Polygon or Arbitrum and whatnot, there's going to be a harsh reality that comes that when like one or two or more of the titles on those networks, those main networks, sees a lot of traction, the network congestion and the volatility
is just going to creep up quite a bit in the way that they've architected things from like the number of transactions per second and like scalability standpoint. But yeah, the arbitrage from infrastructure in the subnet system is interesting and being able to solve that problem would wear like the current EVM based types like network scalability.
ability is right now. So yeah, I'm really excited about that. Awesome to hear. And you know, definitely agree on that from that. I think it's one of the main things that we've been getting a lot of attention from, from various different indie game developers, studios as well, where they're looking at subnets and they find it interesting that you know, hey, if
If we have a game that scales from a couple hundred users to maybe a couple thousand active users or maybe even a million if that's ideal, what do we do? What's the scalability path there? Where do we go from there? It's the interesting thing with Avalanche, of course, as you mentioned, is that you start off on the C-chain, your bootstrap, it's a perfect environment.
for indie game developers to just try their luck out, be able to partner with other games and see how things work out. And then as this scale up, which several games have and now they're going this direction, you endeavor into building your own subnet, with the help of the AVLABS team, the various different service providers.
And even with the folks like MetaFab, that makes the sort of life and jump of that way easier. So something that I'm curious about and I definitely want to learn more about and I think that one of the announcements for the Abel and G ecosystem might cater towards this, but I wanted to get the MetaFab's team their thought on it, is what is the future for blockchain gaming? Are we going to
We have some eVM super fans, folks that love how that will test it. The virtual machine is. But we have some folks that think that something new might be more interesting. We just had the announcement today of something called the Hyper SDK, which is
It's super excited and it's about actually framework to build virtual machines in a specific format that is optimized for performance. It's optimized for thousands of transactions per second. Whereas the EVM is kind of capped in terms of performance. You can have the best performing blockchain ever, but if you have an EVM, it's sort of like having a Lambert
with a Honda Civic engine in this Lamborghini chassis, whereas this Hyper SDK allows you to build virtual machines that can basically be a nice V12 engine that can rev up to whatever speed you want to get to. So I wanted to get the Metaphab teams thoughts on that. What might blockchain games be using?
Is the EVM maybe going to be a bottleneck and how important will it be exploring other virtual machines so that games can have that juicy high TPS number that they're looking for? Yeah, it's a good question. I don't have magic balls, so I do not know. Obviously, I'm just
appearing in the future and kind of guessing. But I do think the current like EVM implementations are bottleneck relative to like the traditional ways that they're deployed and used today. Like the way AdLand and the subnet and stuff work on the EVM side is a way to kind of horizontally scale that and it makes sense. But I
I do think that my preferred outcome with all of this would be that the existing EVM solution implementation gets forked. I think part of the reason we haven't seen the bottleneck on the EVM side resolved is that with implementing a lot of these
performance optimizations and things you can do, you're going to break backwards compatibility on the network and like the chains that are already existing. But I think EVM and like the solidity side of things from the developer experience as it is is actually really powerful and like the the familiarity with the development lifecycle of solidity on top of EVM.
is something I don't think that is going to go away even if the underlying virtual machine implementation running all that stuff changes. But yeah, I would love to see someone like launch optimize a more optimized solution for like the virtual machine inside that is still like an
inherent in its implementation of being compatible on the solidity, like using solidity for the development side of things, such that it's easy for developers to onboard, but that breaks away from like the existing bottlenecks that can't change what the RD launch and existing networks because you break all the existing like on-chain implementations, deploy contracts, but
for a new network, you can get away from that. We'll see. I don't know. I'm curious to see where this base goes. >> Yeah, that's great. >> It's kind of cool that we have this opportunity to try those other options, other VMs as its own blockchain, but still connected to this broader
ecosystem as a subnet. So it could be really cool. And the key. Yep. Yeah, now I agree with that. And you know, I'd like to see, you know, how folks, you know, use these different virtual machines like I think we have somebody in the avalanche ecosystem building the cause of Mausom virtual machine. Now we have an SDK for people to use this.
something called the hyper SDK to build a virtual machine with that if someone's interested in doing that on that side. So I'd like to see people give it a test, see if games will maybe experiment on this side. But definitely excited. And I agree on the side of the EVM. Even from a security standpoint too, there's not that many security-audid solutions around different
virtual machines. So there's a lot to consider there, but I'm glad to see that people on the avalanche ecosystem are hedging a little bit, seeing what virtual machines are out there, maybe experiment there, and who knows, maybe there'll be a different one that's better, or maybe not. But definitely glad that folks are experimenting. Yeah, cool.
All right, guys, we're getting close to the hour. What should we close out with anything on your end that you haven't covered that you think is an interesting topic? I'm good on my end. I'm excited to
Yeah, to bring more games to the avalanche chain and like bring more games on a metaphor to I think I think there's yeah I think avalanche has a really bright future in gaming just with how everything's been structured on the infrastructure side versus the other chains
Awesome. We appreciate that. Nikkeel, you had unmuted there. Yeah, and I think what we're really excited about is that forgetting a lot of awesome feedback about Metafab from a lot of games in the avalanche ecosystem. And I'm sure you're going to start hearing a lot of folks, a lot of names partnering with Metafab folks because essentially they've been for a while now.
now describing the meta-fat solution without knowing them. So for folks that are building the avalanche ecosystem that are looking for having a better time in terms of getting custodial wallets, getting token support, getting a marketplace spun up, and there's various other things that of course the meta-fat team has mentioned, whether it's
even on the QA side and getting introduced to the right groups. Metafab team is well connected. We're really excited. We're going to be doing a lot more exciting things with the Metafab team. I think what's really great is that you guys blend the strength of having the traditional gaming background, but also guys are web-3 enthusiasts too.
So let's see, I think, how much we could sort of push the boundary forward for Web 3 gaming. And I think there's some exciting conversations that we'll be having, likely after this space is. So stay tuned. Avalanche ecosystem. A lot to come between Metafab and the Avalanche team. Thank you, guys. Yeah, thanks again, guys.
So we'd love to chat like this in the future too. It's clear you guys have a lot of context around the industry and we'd love to have you. Yeah, let's do it. Cool. All right, well, let's close it up. Thanks, everybody. We'll chat later. Thanks, everyone. See you.