ご視聴ありがとうございました Hello, hello everyone!
It's great to be here hosting another Moik Live. Today we have very
special guests with us here from mEath Protocol by Mento. And before we get started, if you haven't
checked out yet, yesterday here at Moik we posted a very long and deep article talking a little bit
about mEath, about the the protocol their new expansions to
hyper evm a lot of metrics so make sure to check it out even if you are new to crypto if you're
already a d5 dgen we have a lot of good information there a lot of alpha for you to check it out
and here today we have with us john from mif and also Jess. I will let them introduce a little bit about themselves
And I'm very excited for this.
Here at White, we love working with METH and METH,
John, feel free to introduce a little bit about you.
And then Jess can go ahead.
Hey, happy to be here with you guys.
I lead growth at METH um and i think previously you
know was uh working at crypto exchanges used to work at asset managers and threadfi
but you know really really saw the value of what crypto was as i dive deeper into it you know and
then like it's got just got peeled into the entire space and i think never really looked like ever
since um so i've been around for about four to five years,
you know, seen some things, experienced some ups and downs,
but you know, overall, just a great place to be.
So happy to share with you guys.
I think everybody that comes from Threadfy also falls involved with crypto.
This is the same thing that happened with me.
Jess, feel free to introduce a little bit about yourself.
Yeah, nice to meet everyone. My name is Jess. And then for myself, I am currently handling more on
the ecosystem side for ME protocol. And in terms of my experience, a bit similar to John, but of a different, like I've joined crypto roughly
around late 2021, 2022 era.
And before a mentor and I was previously more often focusing on the infrastructure side.
So I was with an Oracle company and afterwards I was with a custody provider. So it's very interesting to stand in the shoes of being like an asset issuer and trying to
understand a bit more on what we can build up here.
Thanks very much for coming.
I'm very excited for this conversation that we're going to have here.
So guys, yesterday we posted a very deep article talking about mif and in our audience
here at moik we have a lot of different types of people in the crypto space we have beginners we
have d5 dgens but for the audience that still doesn't know anything about mental about mif
john can you explain a little bit for them what is and if and its relationship with MENTL,
which is a very strong name here in the crypto space?
Okay, maybe I flip the question on the side.
Right. So, you know, METH protocol, METH protocol is basically one of the business
arms of the MENTL group as a whole. So M Mantle operates as most people would know now as Mantle L2.
But actually beyond that, we do have many, many other business arms.
So other than the L2, there's also FBTC function,
it's basically a very large alternative BTC asset.
There's AMETH protocol, which is a vertically integrated if staking and restaking
protocol and then after that we still have you know upcoming launches of the enhanced index fund
and mental bank and as well as mental x which is a ai focused um so just to tldr right emmeth
protocol is one of the business lines of mental group right amongst all the other things we're
going we're pretty well-rounded.
But to dive deeper into MEth protocol, what we are, as I said,
vertically integrated liquid staking and restaking protocol.
So for those who may not be familiar with what that means,
is that at its base, MEth protocol operates two types of assets.
One is MEth, which is our liquid staking token.
ETH onto certain validators, they receive a liquid version of their token means that they are able
to use it even though they continue earning staking yields. And then that in itself allows
them to use that token to generate even more yields across the ecosystem but how we juice that up one step further is by restaking that mental
ETH asset right into CME which is our mental restake token so how that works that and what's
more interesting about that is that you know typically what you'll see if we stake tokens
is that you will have you know specific like eigenlayer tokens or symbiotic tokens
have specific eigenlayer tokens or symbiotic tokens, specific assets for that.
But I think for us, what we do is on an index basis, we locate EMEF across many different
restaking protocols, and that allows our users to basically get access to a whole suite of
yields of symbiotic and corrupt in a risk-adjusted manner.
So that's an essential TDR of what we are, right?
We do staking, which is on the validated side of things on Ethereum.
And then from there, we take it one step further with re-staking.
And then, you know, you get additional yields from there across all the re-staking layers.
I gotta say that you guys are doing a very good job.
We are a huge fan of your work here at Moik.
For example, you were the fastest liquid staking at the time protocol to reach 1 billion in
That happened in only, I think, 60 days, 66 days actually.
So this is really impressive.
And for those who are following Moik for a little longer, they will remember that last
year I released a post that even I'm the one who wrote it.
That was the MF thesis or the Cook thesis where I talked a lot about your growth inside
mental and how you were dominating the L2 space specifically when you were talking about
liquid staking, liquid restaking.
I got to say that I'm a huge fan of what you guys are building.
And still talking about that,
you guys are the biggest protocol on Mento.
You're also operating on Ethereum.
But recently, you announced an expansion to Hyper EVN, right?
So Jess, I'm going to let you answer this question.
What was the decision process of choosing
hyper in the end and your thoughts for for the future yeah for sure so back in 2024 i mean
everyone would know that hyperliquid built one of the most active on-chain trading platform like it
was such a big news for every single person that are very pro on decentralization and
also on trading and having a perplex hyperliquid was such a blast for all of the community
And also, I guess a lot of the central exchanges also felt a bit threatened, having such a strong player in the space.
So having that strong foundation and them launching HyperEVM, which is like an EVM compatible layer on top of this already very mature infrastructure, has opened up this ecosystem to like a growing wave of builders. So that's also why for METH protocol, in our view,
it's basically a natural next step for us to have a chance
to integrate our assets into an environment,
which is already rich with usage and also liquidity
from all these growing traders and also growing builders
that wanted to come into the Hyper-EVM ecosystem.
So we basically want to bridge ME and CME and help the Hyper EVM ecosystem to grow with
their e-liquid staking and restaking strategies and to enhance what they've already been building
for their capitals there.
And also, I think for Hyper EVM, one of the very unique side of this chain is that it has
a very strong momentum of growing and also innovative ideas on DeFi landscape. And we
definitely would like and we would love to have MEs and CMEs to be a part of this process for
builders and also for participants to discover more fun ways
of play to play around with MEs and CMEs.
So that's also that's basically the reason why we want to expand into HyperEVM.
Yeah, I think Hyperliquid basically brought all the attention from Twitter since launching
But even before that, even when they had their points campaign, they were basically dominating
At the time, their main focus was the Perch Dex.
Now they launched the Hyper EVM.
And I think you guys are doing the right move, because they have the ecosystem, a lot of
innovation can happen there. And sexes are afraid of Hyperliquid, I could say.
This also brings me to the next point here.
So last week we saw a specific situation happening with Hyperliquid,
specifically with the jelly market.
And how do you guys see Hypers EVM after that, especially after the way Hyperliquid
kind of concluded that event? What are your opinions on it and how do you see the future?
Yeah, I think you can kind of split this two ways, right? There is one on, you know,
why the event happened and your views on that.
And as far as, you know, how they handled the event, right?
So I think let's tackle the first one first, right?
Of like, why the event happened, right?
At the end of the day, it's really just, you know,
I would say maybe, you know, on hyperlinked part,
and I'm not speaking on behalf of them,
but perhaps, you know, certain miscalculations on, on you know certain parameters when they decided to lose jelly jelly or maybe
other different tokens right so in that sense as a protocol there's so many things they need to
consider and I would say that okay you know from experience like advising protocols and taking a
look at protocols you know in the in on a more technical level,
many different facets that could go wrong.
And it just so happened that on that facet,
it's something that a lot of the people in this space
have something to say about.
Typically in lending markets, you have risk managers that do this.
Consider a lot of different facets of it.
On centralized exchanges, you have entire teams looking at that.
And I would say that, OK, fine.
Perhaps there was a misjudgment on their part
that certain things could be done better,
certain parameters that would be dynamic or caps or whatever
has been suggested 1,001 times by CT already.
Could have been explored.
So that's just my stance on that.
It is something that they could have done better
and they could have improved on.
But on the second part of the question of how they
tackled the solution, and I think a lot of people
had criticism about what they have done or how they
approach it, where it's almost like a very, very quick decision
where they decided, OK, let's delist jelly jelly in that sense.
I think on that front it is something that I would resonate with right at the end of the day
you know decentralized protocols to a certain extent or rather like no matter how it would
decentralization to a certain extent every protocol
has uh you know a responsibility towards their users and at the end of the day if let's say for
example jelly jelly was going jelly was going to basically be something detrimental to the protocol
on their side it's probably a right move or rather a very very pertinent move on their front to
basically come together and quickly have the asset listed and basically make sure that the protocol is safe
but yeah i think i think we lost uh uh pedro for yeah we just wait for him to come back on first
yeah i think we will we'll just wait for him for a bit. I think we lost our host.
Yeah. We had some problems.
Hello, hello. I'm back. Yeah, some connection problems. But you handled it very well, to be honest.
Very good answer. And yeah, I fully agree with what you said. And I mean, it's normal that
you said and i mean it's normal that in all types of innovation and also not only in crypto but in
technology as a whole we have to pass through these challenges and in my personal opinion
hyperliquid handled it very well i i can understand both sides of the argument some
people talking about centralization issues some people talking about how they handle it
but i mean at the end at the end of the day, when you're building a project that handled trillions of
dollars in volume, like hundreds of millions of dollars in TVL, you need to go through
some challenging decisions.
And I'm also very excited about your expansion there, because as Jaz was talking in her previous
answer, there are a lot of things that can be built there.
Hyperliquid started just like in a perpetual stacks.
Now you can integrate a whole decentralized financial system there.
So they have a strong liquidity.
You can build lending protocols that integrate with it.
I saw an article that was talking about perpetual futures as collateral
so there are a lot of innovations that can be done on hyperliquid and being able to use mif or cmp
as collateral is a really interesting expansion and i think you guys are moving exactly in the
right way awesome guys going now to another topic here.
Recently, you announced and if announced metamorphosis season
three, right, together with the Hyper-EVM launch.
Can you share a little bit more on how the season three
Maybe I'll just take this then.
So on this, maybe I'll just explain a bit more for those that don't really know or not
so familiar with what's a metamorphosis campaign.
So at its core, our metamorphosis campaign are the heartbeat of our incentive strategy. So these campaigns are actually designed
to reward every single members that contribute liquidity by staking either ME or CME. So when
you're staking ME or CME, you're earning something that we refer to called Potter. So it's basically
a unique reward that you can convert into COOK, which is our governance token and also there's also a way to
incentivize and also to say thank you to all of the supporters that are building out such a solid
foundation for a thriving ecosystem. So now we just announced our launching of season three for
Metamorphosis, but back in season one and two, we actually did very different
kind of approach. So for season one, our focus was more on driving the adoption of ME. So we designed
the reward structure to be very based on users activity across different networks, and also our
partner particles such as EgonLayer and Pendle. Then follow up by season two, our focus
was more on the adoption of CME,
which is our liquid restaking token.
And for our season two, we actually wrapped it up very well,
That's why we are pivoting into a season three.
So for season three, our main focus and target
is actually to expand the usability
and also the more fun functionality of CME across not just on the layer one and also on mental
ecosystem, but on various different exciting ecosystem. For example, like what I mentioned
earlier, our decision to dive deeper into the Hyper EVM ecosystem.
So we wanted to incentivize and also give our supporters an option where you can play around
with what's happening there on Hyper EVM ecosystem, which I think they've already had a very solid
foundation built up there. That's something that we are very excited to work together
with the Hyper EVM team about too.
That's also why we've announced it together
with our participation into the Hyper Beat Vault.
And I can definitely tell that you guys handled very well
the previous campaigns because one metric that I have here,
is that and if was actually the second largest realistic asset on eigenlir like you mentioned
this was part of one of our first campaigns so very congratulations on that very very good job
so guys for the moik followers there and the audience you are you can listen here or watch our live stream first hands
to get all of this alpha here from from and its team thanks just for sharing it and again
definitely very excited for it and i will participate as well in this in the season
awesome and let's go john you talk to yeah i mean i like to put my money where my mouth is
John, you talked a little bit more in the beginning about the technical aspects of the protocol and how CMIF works.
But can you expand a little bit more on why a person or CMIF holder should use it as a go-to DeFi asset in this key bin?
Because it could be integrated in multiple DeFi protocols.
What makes it different? Why should someone use it?
So I think fundamentally the core differentiator,
because at the end of the day, right,
if you take a look at restaking assets,
there are so many, or staking or restaking assets,
there are so many across the board.
And I think I want to stress this for users as well, is that a lot of what happens in
staking and restaking protocols typically happen on the back end.
And then on the front end, you tend to see all the different integrations and stuff.
There's a lot of optimizations that happen in the background that you may not be aware
of. So let's say, for example, on Emmys itself as a U-bearing asset,
typically our staking rates would be higher than most of the competition.
And I think this is because at the end of the day,
we are doing some fee optimizations to give back to the community as well.
So this definitely juices up the base staking use a little bit.
Of course, that caters to a certain type of audience
that perhaps has a lower risk appetite.
They just want to basically hold the liquid-staking token,
maybe lend it on the collateral market,
earn some extra yield on top.
But then once you go into CMRIF territory,
that's where it gets a little bit more interesting, right?
Because instead of needing to figure out, you know,
what kind of restaking protocols are going to be on,
what kind of AVS is going to be on,
with a lot of top quality
which also give points, by the way,
to basically allocate that to the different restaking
protocols as I mentioned on the index level.
So we optimize it based on returns as well as the amount of risk that these things are
We do consider all those aspects and then allocate it to either layer symbiotic, Kairaq
and all the different AVSs there according to our internal measurements. So CME itself becomes a very, how do I put this, a very simple one-stop shop to basically
get access to the entire restaking ecosystem.
And so that's just on ME protocol itself.
When then you use this CME or ME across the different ecosystems, let's say for
example HyperEVM. What we're doing right now in the
greater HyperP, I think as of today we are probably majority of the HyperEVM
fault, the CME. So thank you for the support of all our community in CME.
But as well as you know having deeper conversations with all of these different applications on
HyperEVM to create what we call golden pathways.
And I think that's very important for us at Hemith Protocol, to create these kind of
golden pathways that allow users to juice up their yields in a very easy way.
So let's say, for example, having a very good money market with very good supply caps to
provide CME. Borrow the USDC, use that on hypercall to basically trade your perps, go delta neutral
on it, earn extra yield on top of the juice-top yields you already give on CME.
Or let's say for example they want to do other things like LP on certain protocols, we basically
have those compensations going up, all the incentives going up there as well.
So at the end of the day, I think really core to this is that when you choose a restaking protocol or a staking protocol,
you want to choose one that basically has a lot of insight into the ecosystems that we are deploying into.
You have to remember that as a whole, Mento Group has a lot of deep industry partnerships across the private and public markets a lot of different assets that we have dealt with before
be institutional or retail we do know the different games that are being played at different levels
and we consider that in every aspect of what we do and what we are doing here with CME is basically
just making something that's very, very accessible for both retail
So really just catering to an audience that in different levels or in different ways to
make it easier for them to end extra you.
And I fully agree with you and I think that's the right approach.
Also just sharing a little bit more on what we shared here at mollik in our article yesterday we made
a comparison of w if and r if rocket pool and cn if and cn if had the highest yield and like you
mentioned you have multiple integrations and it's an easy way for users to get a interesting risk
adjusted return for their liquid staking or risk taking assets right i'm going to another
topic here because i really liked what you mentioned about institutions and i see that
you guys are going more in that way now initially you had that fixed yield vault product which
is still live but right now we are also seeing other projects
starting to pursue institutional frameworks.
Do you guys see that this fixed yield vault
and also with this expansion to Hyper-EVM
is also positioned you guys closer
and to become the leader of this institutional adoption space
inside the liquid staking and
liquid risk taking sector just feel free to to talk about it yeah for sure maybe i will uh
answer this but actually i think john earlier for the previous question he actually covered
quite a bit on this so for for amy protocol, we are dedicated to provide not just interesting
and also fun pathways for retail users to play around our chain. But also at the same
time, we are very keen and also very, we are very much very actively trying to build up
products that are also feeding up the needs from the institutional players. That's exactly why we wanted to launch the CME fixed out vote
because we knew that for a lot of those institutional players,
they don't, they're having a bit of hard time understanding
what does it mean by me staking by eigenlayer
and also symbiotic, I'm getting all these points for,
what are some of those ABS points?
And when am I ever going to
redeem those? How am I going to put those on my balance sheet or P&L sheet ever? So that's why
we launched this fixed sale vault product with the aim that we are going to upload your risk.
We can be your counterparty. We are holding up with a very strong treasury, and then we have a very good
branding and also a well-known reputation within the space. We can offload all of your risk in
return. We give you a clean ETH vanilla yield of added up maybe around 5% for now on your ETH.
That's something that we are actively trying to figure out for our institutional
clients. In fact, for these kind of conversations, we are exploring very heavily with different kind
of distribution channels, for example, with custody providers, and also with different kind of
product or applications in the market. And going back to the topic on the HyperEVM integration,
like what John mentioned earlier,
we want to build up stuff that is very interesting.
And HyperEVM has happened to be like a place
can be utilized in another different like
where you can have a CME fixed-up vault
and you are getting all of the benefits of holding on to like a yield bearing asset.
At the same time, you can go to HyperCore and you can use it as an underlying collateral
or you can like do some kind of lending and borrowing on top of this.
Or you can even go on to Bybit and use it as a collateral to do more arbitrage trading,
all different kinds of things for those players that wanted to really enhance the yield that they
can actually get out of it. And one more thing that I also wanted to mention on this in general,
our view on institutional adoption is that for Mento, we're having different kind
of business lines. METH is a part of these business. We are also launching very institutional
driven and focused business lines, such as Mento Index Fund, which a portion of them are also holding on to our MEF assets.
This is something that we are getting into the market for.
That's why I think personally I'm quite bullish on our future in the institutional adoption
That's very exciting. future in the institutional adoption space.
That's very exciting. Now we're getting to a point here, especially in DeFi, where we have, like you mentioned,
multiple different restaking projects.
You can restake on IDL or on Symbiotic, on Carrot, a lot of different project and protocols.
And it gets hard for the average user to use all of them, to integrate all of them.
I mean, it's multiple different ecosystems, different tokens.
So just by using CNIF, you can aggregate it and get a good return, a risk-adjusted return, and also utilize in other places.
So I believe this is the right approach.
When a specific sector starts to get more institutional or starts to develop more, it's normal that we see solutions like yours that help the average user and also institutional users to make the ecosystem easier to use and also get better returns. And I think you already answered a bit of my next question, but I would also like to see if there are anything else coming.
And John, if you want to talk about this, feel free.
So especially in the HyperEVM space,
are there upcoming projects or partnerships
with other protocols being built on HyperEVM?
And there's a ton of them, right?
So I think on HyperBeats Vaults itself,
there are a bunch of protocols
that are already connected to them.
So those we are already in conversations with,
I think we'll be working with them as well.
But beyond that, there are also a bunch of protocols
that we are also in deep conversations with.
I mean, not just even on an integration level, but even underlying their protocol,
you know, in the utilization of CME.
I mean, that's really our goal, right?
Because at the end of the day, you know, more CME usage means, you know,
more value for the entire protocol.
And that definitely, you know, helps with our growth efforts, right?
We compound that into more ecosystems
and more growth programs.
So I won't name names for now,
but eventually, once CME grows live as an OFC or HyperEVM,
we start to get those protocols on board.
If you follow our socials, we'll definitely have those.
You can definitely keep track of us.
Or if you're lazy, just check back once in a
while and through our ME protocol webpage you can see the earn page and you can you see the bunch
of highlights that we are of the protocols they were integrated with you know it's simple to check
over there just see where you're on the farm look at the kind of use that you want to obtain and then
just go on from there right it's uh it's almost like a guidebook i would say of all the places
they were integrated with awesome and i will add even one more point or you can also follow moik because
you'll be sharing all of that in these new updates yeah as well yeah but guys make sure to be following
at if mental and moik so you stay tuned and and stay ahead of all of these new integrations and
new partnerships that are coming for the future and, we are getting close to the end of the live stream,
but now I think this is one question that a lot of people are interested in. Are there
any other ecosystems in mind? Because you guys are expanding to HyperEVM and I can pretty
much see a future where you guys are totally multi-chain, a lot of different ecosystems.
So are there any other plans in mind?
Jess, yeah, you can go ahead and do this.
OK, then maybe I'll just answer this.
And then, John, if you have anything
that you wanted to add in, then feel free to share more.
So I think what I briefly touched on earlier in the chat,
we are actively talking to different ecosystems.
And also at the same time, it's hosting this season 3
for Metamorphosis is also trying to help our supporters
to find different ways to play around with MEs and CMEs.
So the answer is definitely yes.
We are keen to explore more ecosystems, not just HEPA EVM.
But definitely when it comes to deploying MEs and CMEs
there are different kind of criterias that we look at. So first and foremost, we are going to look at it in a way
that whether this new ecosystem is going to be a value-aligned ecosystem
with METH protocol, not just us trying to do some liquidity mining from that new chain, but rather we really
want to make it as something that is more directed to our users and also for the community.
And the second thing is that we definitely want to look at the chains that has a very active DeFi
For example, HEPA EVM is definitely
one of the top-notch ecosystem has presented
And the third thing is for sure that this
will be some kind of ecosystem that
would create a lot of high potentials for
in general, like the on-chain market. So these are some of the criteria that I could think of in mind
on a more macro level that we would look at when it comes to making such decisions. Yeah. I think to add on to Jess's answer, I think we do have certain ecosystems in mind, but
I think at the end of the day, like Jess said, they have to fit the criteria that we mentioned,
because at the end of the day, the team here at EMI protocol and as well as mental, we are,
it's been said many times on Citi,
we are long-term people playing long-term games, right?
So at the end of the day,
if it's an ecosystem that is looking to be here
for the long run, trying to do something different,
trying to do something different,
we're more than happy to work with them, right?
And so that's really part of our consideration set.
A few ecosystems in mind,
but when they come live, they will come live.
For sure, yeah. I think you guys have the right
approach here here at moika i have the same vision when we are working with partners with multiple
projects you want to be aligned with them like yes it's easy for example to launch a new chain
and just simply put a mining campaign but that's not sustainable for the long term so i'm this
makes me very bullish on you guys after hearing that directly from both of you.
You are aligned for the long term, you have a very good product and this is the way that
everybody should build in crypto.
Unfortunately, it's not what we see for most people in most projects, but you are in the
Guys, this now is my last question and we hereIC, we are huge fans of the Cook token.
But can you talk a little bit more on what role will Cook have in the future of Hyper-EVM?
And feel free to both of you answering.
Okay, we can go on that first.
We can go on that first, right?
So Cook itself, at the end of the day, like I mentioned, is the governance token of AME protocol.
And I think in previous AMEs or town halls, we've always been talking about how we are focused on COOK's growth.
It is basically a very direct correlation with how fast ME goes as well, right? Because the more revenue we generate as a protocol,
and I think it's very clear, right?
The higher TVR we have, the more ecosystems we are in,
the more people that use us.
It's more revenue and more revenue means that we can do,
you know, a lot more things with either compounding back into ME
protocols or directly to Google as well, right?
Directly on Hyper EVM itself, just a quick tidbit, if you check on the
Hyperscan dashboard, you will see that someone has purchased a ticker called Cook. So that should
be pretty interesting. But right now, Hyper EVM is very, very much focused, or rather we are very very focused on Hyper-EVM's side on CME growth and distribution.
Cook itself will govern ME protocol as a whole.
So no, not directly on Hyper-EVM. Cook will not have a direct effect on Hyper-EVM.
But Hyper-EVM is basically the first step in our expansion towards generating that additional revenue or that more revenue lines for us to basically re-invest by InterCook.
Guys, if you are not familiar with Cook here from the audience, in our article that we posted yesterday, we basically dive deep into all of the documentation, explain everything in easy terms
for anybody who might be interested in learning more. And yeah, here at Moic, I can pretty much
say that most of our team is very bullish on Krook. We have Krook on our wallet.
That's not financial advice, but we are huge fans. Also, we made a very good comparison as well in our article because
if we compare your growth with other projects market cap tbl ftp all of these metrics
i can pretty much say that i view you guys are as undervalued so if anybody here from the audience
is interested in learning more and seeing this metrics go to our profile
it's pinned right on top of it our new article our recent article about an if and cook so feel free
to to go read it guys i appreciate a lot both of you coming today you gave a lot of good insights
and good information we have almost 1 000 people live so So I'm very happy with that. I see that
a lot of people here are getting a lot of good insights. And it's great to have contact
with people who are building serious products in this space. And again, congratulations
for this recent expansion to Hype AVM and for everything that you guys are building.
Was a pleasure to have both of you here. Guys, please go follow everybody
on the socials. Follow M.E.M.T.O., follow Moik, and Jazz, and John too. And yes, if you guys want to
add something else, feel free to do it. If not, it was a pleasure to have both of you here.
Yeah. Thank you so much, Pedro, for your time too.
It's been a pleasure to be here.
Thank you so much pedro for your time it's been a pleasure to be here thank you very much