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Moments of the Unknown - 100
Recorded: July 16, 2025 Duration: 0:46:28Space Recording
Short Summary
In a lively discussion celebrating the hundredth episode of their podcast, the hosts reflect on their growth journey, the importance of creativity in the crypto space, and the need for mental health awareness amidst the hustle. They emphasize the value of partnerships and the evolving trends that shape the future of digital art and NFTs.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Good morning, everybody.
This is a very special day.
We've made it this far.
Jai, I sent you a speaker request. You got it okay cool good morning man or should i say good
meat what the fuck what's going on the fuck is up homie nothing much dude how's it going
good man thank you for joining today being our guest is our hundredth fucking podcast in a row.
I don't even know how I'm doing this shit,
but we're,
but we're doing this shit.
Well,
you've been doing it solo or what?
or is there a guest every day?
I'm listening to a couple,
like the Blondie one was fucking dope.
but like,
yeah,
a hundred days is,
is really fucking nuts,
dude.
Congrats on it.
Thanks man.
I appreciate having you as the,
the milestone and,
you know, congrats again on your awesome show, uh I saw last week that was a good time oh man what what did I even do last
week I don't even remember was it um it was Alfonso you're a doppelganger I think oh yeah
that's right yeah man I you know him and I uh we don't fucking kind of tread in the same places
anymore you know I mean like he's a sketch't fucking kind of tread in the same places anymore.
You know what I mean?
Like, he's a sketchy-ass dude.
I try to keep things together, professional, pristine.
Yeah, but, yeah, Alphonso Knudsen, man, give it up for the guy.
I mean, the guy is a marketing genius.
I can't believe that he's the first ever person to let you timeshare out.
And I feel like, dude, it's big.
And it's not just a timeshare in florida either no exactly dude this is this is bigger than boca
well uh well let's focus on you fuck forget about alfonso we can talk about that that guy later i
really i really i don't know if you're in persona that like you know i don't know you
well i don't know the persona i don't know your process but however you show up i'm just curious
to learn about your story from from your words or alfonso's words whoever we're whoever we're
talking to i have no idea i'd love to love to hear your love to hear you yourself, if that's okay. Yeah, absolutely, man.
Well, yeah, so Die With The Most Likes or Alfonso Knudsen or, I mean, I go by a ton of different names.
But, yeah, man, like my LinkedIn bio says that I'm officially a fuckable malt liquor energy drink floating in a retention pond outside of a Sam's club in your hometown. But really, yeah, man, I, I, other, other people, experts have called me the lips
and buttholes of a generation. But like, yeah, really just fucking, you know, Mark, die, whatever
it is. I just love making shit, dude. And like, honestly, the craziest part about all this is
like, it's almost like I turn it around and I say like that's me as an artist but i think like
the craziest part of all this shit is uh people contributing to the world um that like i've kind
of constructed but then people have just like gone on and built all their own shit on it you
know what i mean like it's like it's it's kind of transformed into this like uh living organism
itself that i just love uh that people come in in and kind of bask in the absurdity and the madness that they don't normally get to indulge in.
So that's, like, my favorite fucking part of this whole thing.
I think that's what, you know, is so familiar for all of us because it's like we're tired of all the bullshit and you are kind of, like, hammering the nail on all the shit and really exposing it in a beautiful way.
And it's so poetic.
Even your super long descriptions.
That to me is poetry.
And I know it's like also absurdity and comedy. in how you can encapsulate that feeling of almost the Midwest Americana,
corporate, you know,
consumeration of objects and, you know, obesity.
All these things are wrapped into this character
you've created, this world you've built.
And where did it all start?
Like, how did you even fall into this meat pie?
We lost you there.
I'm going to invite you back up.
Going through some technical difficulties, I guess.
Let's see. I'm'm gonna invite you back up maybe leave and come back if
you can hear me I think we lost our guests now he's back are you with me
well shit Are you with me? Well, shit.
Are we back?
Are we live?
The rugs keep on rugging.
I can't hear you if you're trying to speak,
Mark, are you with me?
Let's see.
Maybe leave and come back.
How are we doing?
This is becoming a performance
unto itself
what better way to have a hundredth episode than
this happening
well that's okay, I'm patient
and so are we.
It's like Harry Houdini's disappearing act. Well, until he comes and join us,
we're going to talk a little bit about his work.
Di, are you with me?
I've never experienced this before, but...
Hello?
We got it.
What the fuck? I had to take a break and huff some jank. I'm sorry about that.
I have some fermented shit that I just needed to get a little
nibble off of.
It's all good, man.
Yeah, it's all good man yeah no i mean
it's uh yeah it's a good question um i've been making shit forever uh and actually kind of
started more as like an author uh really because like that's what i really thought i wanted to do
um so like uh i've been like drawing and like and just making like kind of weird like the funniest
thing was in high school
when I knew shit was getting super weird was like I had made this like 200 page catalog of this math
teacher that I um kind of despised you end up getting fired you know getting fired for being
like a pervert too which is which is like fucked up and insane but I made this catalog of these
different robots with his head on them and it was like literally 200 pages of these different robots with his head on them. And it was like, literally 200 pages of
these things. And then so eventually, it was so funny, the he found these things eventually,
and he said it was the most fucked up thing he's ever seen in his life and was like trying to get
someone to admit it. And get that person suspended. Everyone knew it was me, but nobody wanted to
admit it. So like everyone just sat there in awkward silence. I kind of looked around, you know, desperately searching for the
culprit, even though of course it was me. And yeah, it was, it was very funny. But then like,
I got more into writing like after college and wrote a couple books for the hell of it,
like assume that no one would ever read them. And they really, they really didn't for a couple years and then yeah I was painting all
sorts of shit and at the time it was it was funny I wasn't really making a ton of digital art this
was like probably 15 years ago now or something but I was painting so much shit that like everything
that I was making was filling up our apartment in Chicago so my wife convinced me to get an iPad
so that I could like consolidate some of this without, yeah, essentially suffocating in the shit that I was making.
So then the rest was kind of history, man.
And then it was like all sorts of madness on Hick and Nunk and fake super rare applications and like just all sorts of things that people couldn't really discern what was true or not, which is like one of my favorite things, too is like obscuring this reality where people can can never really tell like what's a
joke or like what's satire or irony no I I'm in that boat too because you know
there is a human by this force like I I kind of see you as like the dolly of our
time because he's so funny funny you're in character all the time you don't know
what's character what's real and it's all one but I also want to i also want to say when i look at your work i really feel like
you're somewhere between william s burroughs as a writer and uh francis bacon as a painter and i
love that honestly like that's when i see your work i feel those those you know what your writing
speaks volumes because you do encapture this Americana voice that combines all these different fucking notions of crazy shit that we deal with every day.
And the brands that you just hoop on the brands.
No mercy.
We need that sort of criticism.
We need that sort of parody.
Because fuck Sotheby's., fuck Sotheby's.
We got Sotheby's.
And what's the obsession with Arby's?
I got to know.
Oh, man, I just love their beef and cheddar sandwich.
And then also they've got a hell of a horsey sauce program.
So those were both childhood favorites of mine.
I think, like, the big thing with Arby's, and I think this has been explored before, but it's just the hilarity.
And like I think that I would be more comfortable if it was like just even slightly more expensive.
You know what I mean? Like the sandwiches, the sandwiches are like 99 cents for like a pound of, yeah, pound of lips and buttholes.
And you're just eating it. And it's like, oh man, I would pay, you know, $3 or something to think that this was not like some type of like horrifically abused,
you know, creature or, or, or just like nothing at all, you know, perhaps just matter that was
never living. So that that's kind of hilarious. But that is the obsession. I agree. Like
the South Arby's thing came about where it was just like, you know, ridiculing that,
the South Arby's thing came about where it was just like, you know, ridiculing that,
ridiculing the idea that, that, that we need some type of, you know, merit or some type of like
justification to create. So like on the whole website, it was this whole thing where it's like,
look, your art is not valuable unless, you know, South Arby's has endorsed it. And, you know,
the whole purpose of creation is to accumulate these endorsements like it's some fucking stupid LinkedIn profile.
And so that was like part of the frustration and like the creation of it.
And really, like, I think that through the absurdity of Gristle Buddies, which hilariously took like an insanely long time to actually make.
it's very easy to make hilarious criticisms of things
versus just kind of throwing a tantrum
or just kind of having stream of consciousness stuff.
You know what I mean?
I like when it's super nuanced
and a little bit more difficult to digest.
No, I totally see that come through your work.
And you do come with this surrealist,
free associated consciousness.
When I'm reading all your posts, it hits it's like you're like you're a great writer in this strange
fucking ridiculous way and i think like i said it's poetry it's like a whole new form of poetry
who are some of your inspirations i gotta know well man it's funny girl growing up i was reading
uh well of course i was reading a lot of palo Nuik and stuff in high school, which is just like, now I find it kind of almost like cringe, I guess, like where it's like Flight Club's my favorite book. And it's like, dude, I don't know, man. There's like, there's a lot.
I read all of his books too, dude.
but it was very formative for me in high school on those things.
Now I read a lot of like Roberto Bellano or Michelle Hulabek or Blake Butler is an incredible
author who's also a collector.
He's got a lot of really good books.
Yeah, dude, it's kind of all over the place.
Of course, like Kafka is a huge inspiration.
Like I've talked about this before, but his story called The Carousel of a Family Man,
which is only like three paragraphs long, essentially got me into art as a whole.
So if anyone wants to read that, I think it's a free PDF that you can just download.
It's an incredible story about purpose and the illusion of legacy and what makes one creation more important than another, even though that that importance is um is a farce and
it just doesn't exist like the creation just it's as important as the viewer deems it and as
important as the creator who creates it so it's just a really really good book that i would or a
short story that i could not recommend enough for anybody who's like hitting a slump or
who just wants to reflect on like legacy and you know
everything that they've made i think you raise a good point about that and you referred franz
kafka not not that painter hofka in the space right i couldn't hear you no but he's awesome
too yeah i do like i do love kafka yeah i love i love hofka as well but yeah franz kafka i could
see you and uh hof Kafka doing a dope ass collab piece
I'm not sure if you've ever done that
no I haven't but man
he's an incredible painter man I love
it when people explore like yeah with your
it's always cool looking at like a master
of a different medium right like you know
even though our
artworks seem like they're very far
apart there's like
definitely through lines there
with our imagination and like how we interpret things and the kind of hopefully the nuances
that we're able to communicate in like those images. So yeah, a huge hats off to you as well.
And like anybody who's exploring the physical side of things, I just, I always have a deep,
deep respect and appreciation for them because it is like a really, not that digital isn't difficult,
but I don't know, man.
What do you think?
Like, I feel like the physical side of things,
I'm...
I was going to say, I fucking...
I'm able to feel it.
I was going to say, dude,
like when I saw your Beef Brothco,
the blue one at Hef Gallery the other day,
it made me feel something like so emotional.
And like, I know it's a derivative and a play on the the rothgo has
been in a way it fucking transcends it in this insanely grotesque but beautiful way
and like fuck that blue whatever whatever you're doing with that blue really hits my soul
when you mix in those red meat blood meat with that with that with that sky turquoise it's
fucking hit man yeah it's like yeah it's like
meat being grilled on the damn sky or something in the india in the polluted indiana clouds um
and that was kind of the that's always the idea with those things it's always this like
communication of uh this communication of decay and then like i think that it was funny i just
saw like a tiktok of somebody who had made a tiktok like that i'd think that it was funny. I just saw like a TikTok of somebody who had made a TikTok like that I'd never seen.
It was like, oh, this is Brothco.
This is Die With The Most Likes.
Who's making beef Brothcos, I guess.
But it was a really well done one.
And she was like, just pointing out kind of the absurdity of it all.
And like that, yeah, that, and again, I think that goes back to the earlier point where
it's just like, what even matters, you know, like just make, like I always say this, just fucking make things.
And, you know, the existence or absence of a cabal doesn't matter.
Fucking paint, create, do whatever the fuck you want to do.
And I think that in that joy in making those things, I think it'll eventually find the right people.
I don't know.
That's kind of how I've approached this whole thing and how I continue to approach it.
Well, you're being yourself.
And I think that's the most important thing.
And you're not holding back on the ridiculous and the ridicule, because I think that's where the strength is.
And I actually want to talk a little bit about because I always see your posts every single day.
And I'm always resharing because it it can it connects in a way where it's like yo this dude
speaking the truth we're making fun of the shit that people take so seriously that value so much
and it's and I want to understand where that came from from you what was the first you know
you make the like the Rafiq piece or the Grant piece or any of these pieces that we've seen
and and you need a fire I don't know know what term you would call it when you transform the vision
from their work to you.
Where did that all come from, and what was the first one?
Shit, dude, that is a good question.
You know, I don't know.
I'll have to, like, look back through my iPad archives
to see what the first one was.
I think eventually it so like, it started
out where it was just like, you know, we're all in this like horrific, this horrific eternal doom
scroll that's just constantly eroding our memories and eating our retinas. And so I just had this
like idea where I'm just like, dude, all everything just eventually becomes meat. So it's like meat in the end. There's no specific feeling to that descent. There's no specific pain or anything
like that. It's just everything becomes meat under this constant scroll, under your thumbs
bleeding out into this blue light. And so when I saw this really beautiful, I think I saw a super
dope piece. And I was just like, how, how fucking funny is it
that we just like look at these pieces and we, we think about them for two seconds before,
you know, shitting them out back into the toilet that we call, you know, our, our digital existence.
And so I'm like, what if I just did a, what if I did a meat variation of this? Would anyone even
notice, or would it just be consumed the exact same way and so um it was
kind of a play on that and then it developed into its own whole thing um and like my obsession with
meat is has gone uh very far back because like um yeah i've mentioned this in a pod but my high
school is next to a dog food factory plant so like at the height of summer when there was no ac you'd
just be smelling beasts being slaughtered to feed beasts i became like kind of obsessed with that idea and um so that's that also definitely plays
into it and all sorts of other kind of rust belt uh i don't know just iconography and um appreciation
for it too you know but yes and so like it's funny because no one can ever really tell like
if it's an ode or if it's a like ridicule or you know like i've made ones that are
like of like this this dumbest shit as well and then i've made ones of people who i really love
like grant who's like an incredible he's like one of the nicest dudes to ever exist or sam or a
couple any other of these like uh awesome artists so it's just it's kind of a funny dichotomy there
i guess between like things that are like repulsive and, um, like
I would just not, some things I like don't appreciate and then other artists and arts
that I just like love. And I really appreciate it. Well, I was going to say it's totally
making sense now growing up next to that dog food factory. Cause like your environment
shapes how you interpret things and perceive things. And, you know, I really love what
you said earlier about how the doom scroll and the retina is eating at us.
Like the flies are eating at the meat.
You know, it's like a metaphor.
And when you when you when you look at it like the first few times, it's like, whoa, this is disturbing.
This is disgusting.
But when you look deeper and I could see your your your style and your and the way you think is you're brilliant.
your your style and your and the way you think is you're brilliant and it's kind of like this mask
this meat mask you you wear as as comedy but in really like it's all a tragedy
yeah that's uh yeah thank you man like i think that's the goal and what i didn't really understand
at the start was like when i was making these things with these like very exaggerated colors and uh
you know like faces and and things that they they really were they really did function as kind of
like almost a fly trap in some ways where it's like you know lure the people lure whoever it is
into that thing by kind of like the the insane slaughter and like gore and in some cases just
like complete uh completely disgusting underbelly of humanity.
And then like once you're in that thing, it's like, oh, wait,
there's like this kind of this like line of prose
or like the short story that's accompanying it.
And like there's all these kind of very, very detailed meanings
behind the different pen and brush strokes and these things.
So, yeah, that's dead on.
Can I ask you a question?
And I don't know if this is like too personal,
but like,
was there a moment where you questioned your,
your confidence in wanting to share these disturbing,
disgusting, grotesque things?
Cause it's not easy to reveal the ugly in a place where we want to feel
beautiful and seen. So, you know, it sounds silly,
but I'm genuinely curious.
No, no, that's, that's a, that's a really good question.
And like, I would say, I don't know about you,
but I definitely have pretty severe anxiety just overall,
like just kind of just an anxious person.
But in terms of like the sharing of them and stuff,
like honestly, dude, it's funny.
I found freedom in the onslaught of, of things that I was making, like where, and also the,
the exploration and, uh, and like constant remolding of, of these different like universes
of, of absurdity, like that, that's where it becomes like so fun because kind of like you
were saying, um, no one can really tell like what, what is like real or like what is going on. So
it's, I consider myself very lucky and very
like happy to be able to just explore in kind of relative freedom because like there's just
one so much of it which which like i think all artists and anybody should should be doing at
least like that's where i find freedom is again, like just create, create, create and like put put everything out there and let people let people fuck with it or not fuck with it.
But when there's just so much to sift through, eventually it's just like, yeah, it doesn't matter.
Like these things just much like the much like I was talking about earlier with like the the legacy and like the everything is impermanent everything becomes inconsequential eventually so you may as well just create your fucking ass off
and be as relentless as humanly possible and um yeah like people can people can can like it or not
uh that's that's the thing but if you if you're creating out of a place that you have to make
that thing which i think i see that in yours and many artists here
where it's just like, oh, holy shit.
That's like their imagination being completely evacuated,
dumped onto a photograph or a painting or a digital piece.
Like that's when you can truly, I don't know,
just find something in their work
and hopefully people find in mine sometimes.
No, I think you're right.
I think also that dumping
of our expression of our soul of our consciousness is potentially maybe how we process anxiety and
and how we see the world you know oh yeah absolutely i don't know about you but there's
like the first in the crazy like the first book that I wrote, um, it's like, well, actually no, the second one, which is called sparsely attended funerals. Uh, that one is like a hundred thousand
word book. And I wrote, wrote it over the course of like three weeks. Um, so it was like, and it
was like at the height of COVID. So yeah, I was having these like horrible anxiety bouts and just
feeling like absolute dog shit all the time. And so I would just plunge myself into that blinking
cursor for as long as I possibly could. And it made me feel all right for a little while um and so
that's what yeah like i yeah for for most of this shit it really is like you just get in there and
it like can help um it can help distract it can help like i think the nicest part is when like
you're feeling so bad and then like you create something out of that you're like okay
well at least there's something here that wasn't here before and i'm not just wallowing in it it's
something that like is created and people can find relatable or people can find you know small
snorts of humanity or like emotion or anything like that so that's what i try to do is it written
on like one giant scroll like caro actedacted on the load type of deal?
That would have been sick, man, if I had done that.
I bought like a shitty Chromebook from Costco because I didn't have a computer.
I think it was like $200, and all it could really do was word process
because it just came preloaded with like so much junk like i don't
know if anyone has had any experiences with 200 costco uh chromebooks but um they're aggressively
stacked full of stuff that uh will just completely slow slow you down so like really all i could do
was write on it which was kind of awesome too like you could barely browse the internet uh so it's
pretty tight so i want to ask you a bit about um
some of your projects like nameless dread beef broth co and gristle buddies you know what is
the message that you're underlayingly writing in nameless shed because i'm trying to understand
i kind of get broth co i have a couple of them so i just I want to like walk, walk through your, your, your projects and your
process. Oh yeah, man. Well, um, yeah. So nameless dread was created. Uh, I like, so I, yeah, I've
been working this, this job for like, uh, 12 years now. Um, this like corporate desk job where I
essentially get paid to spam email market people. Um, and so like so like, through that 12 years, you know, I've
accumulated a lot of, of dread. And like, I was wondering every day, like when I just wake up
feeling like vaguely ill, I started to wonder if other people were feeling that way. And of course,
like maybe assumption that yeah, of course, like every, many people feel that way. Like most jobs
just fucking suck. And they're always going to suck.
And you sit there and you kind of wither away in your desk chair.
I always say becoming lube for the wheels of the next sorry fuck to take your place.
And so like there was one specific thing that set me off this.
It was a couple of years ago.
I was on this call and this lady was like, oh, I was going to be an acupuncturist at some point.
She's like, what a dumb thought that was.
Now I'm doing this.
And it's like, she's like, you know, middle management, which there's no shade on that.
But I'm like, dude, like to call a dream that you had like dumb and then to submit to, yeah,
this kind of lifeless corporate existence is, it just like depressed me massively.
And there's like tons of those, like, I'm just
like, I would, I would just get those things all the time. Like I'd be in these meetings that were
like six hours long where nothing got accomplished and you just be sitting there like disassociating
and losing your shit. So when I created Nameless Tread, it was really a manifestation and
distillation of those horrific feelings of illness that we all kind of have.
And like, it may not even be that like desk job. It may be like, you know, it may be doing calls
of stuff that you like too, but there's like things that just eat away at your inside. So
what the hilarity behind dread was that like, I wanted to create these. So it was partially generative and then partially I hand illustrated and painted 669 of these people that were like in varying states of decay, suffering, celebration in some ways, like in this kind of tedious, tedious existence behind the lens of a probing camera. And so those things were like really these,
these poems that I'd accumulated throughout the year, visual and written. And like the,
the importance of that project was like a glitch Marfa hit me up. They're like, dude,
do you want to do a residency? I'm like, yeah, fuck yeah. But I got to like check with my,
my boss and like, see what the hell's going on he he wasn't super aware of uh yeah he wasn't
super aware of what I was doing uh in this world so he's like well and I was like hey so I just
kind of said like hey I'm gonna be like in and out for hopefully like a month like I'm just taking a
couple little vacation or whatever and so the hilarity behind the Marfa residency was like I
was technically working that entire residency so I'd be like joining calls and like kicking my mouse around
and like painting and like programming those things
with Sydney, this incredible programmer and illustrating.
And it was just this hilarious, like this hilarious, again,
like two worlds colliding in the, under the desert sun.
But yeah, it was just really like that.
That project is so important to me because
like, it's, it's so expansive, like, and not just from a time perspective, but it's like the amount
of like memories and, and like things that I think are shared like tentacles between all of us that,
um, yeah, I don't know, dude, it just, it was crazy to have the reaction that some people did
and some of the threads that people have written and stuff i'm like it was so uh it was so important
i dumped so much myself into it uh it was very cool oh well you could you could feel the subversion
and hearing the story of how you were how to work and we're getting inspired and probably in the in
the moment painting the person who you're talking to as on the call it's kind of it's kind of
hilarious as like a
performance but as an as a living artwork and it was that was that all digital did you make
paintings so i'm trying to understand when you where your digital paintings start and your
physical paintings and yeah so so they were all digital but then i made i think i ended up painting
69 watercolors while i was in marfa as well. So like, that's like,
yeah, that's just like that upset that obsession with creation. And I felt like the story,
that's the other part about dread and all my works really is like, sometimes I don't feel
like the work can necessarily be fully realized just in digital. So I, so like when there's
something that important, like,
especially with a lot of my, like one of ones or like these larger scale projects,
I really want to explore those things in written form and in physical form too, because like,
I just feel like the concept is, is not, yeah, it's not fully realized until I like navigate
every crevice of it. So were saying something earlier i actually wanted to
follow up a little bit on was um you know the woman who gave up on her dreams right and she
kind of laughed at that it's like going back to earlier too it's like this angst that we have
just to be alive we're born into this fucking system you know it's shredding us apart it's
killing our confidence you know and kind ofding us apart it's killing our confidence
you know and kind of being an artist is like fighting back fighting against the matrix fighting
and being yourself but how how would you even saying how would you advise someone if you if
you had to give advice to someone to to step into that confidence and don't kill your dream and don't
step into that dreadful job even though it gave you influence to make it an incredible, beautiful, beautiful work.
But what, you know, society, and you can see it breathe through your work,
is what's killing us.
All these Fortune 500 companies that are literally branded into our being.
I don't know. What are your thoughts?
Yeah, it's going to be like, hey, welcome to the MoMA, sponsored by FanDuel.
Like, go and bet now.
It's going to be like, you know, these different art pieces where you can, like, bet on fucking shit for them or something, dude.
Like, that's coming.
But, yeah, like, for me, it was throughout my creative existence or whatever you want to call it, like it, it's finding like
those small, those like small holes to just exist in for a minute and find like those,
those, those moments of happiness, like, like even, yeah, again, before, like I was able to
share with a lot of people who were also feeling the same way I did. Like, and now, you know,
this like awesome community that has been built on the, the, I'm like what I did like, and now, you know, this like awesome community that has
been built on the, I'm like, what I call like the strip mall of meat that we all kind of like
celebrate in like feast on. Yeah, like, like, when I would get home from work, I would just be like,
well, shit, dude, like, you know, you, you have to get, you have to have a paycheck. So like,
I have to be able to like, afford a place to live and afford food and stuff. But I think if you can find some small, like whether it be a creative outlet,
whether that be like, you know, visiting, visiting places you want to go or whatever,
that, that was just so important to me and maintaining my sanity and not like being
completely flushed down this corporate drain is just like, you know, finding those moments and
just like reveling in them when I could. And for, and it's difficult because like, you know, finding those moments and just like reveling in them when I could.
And it's difficult because like then it's just another day is another day.
And you truly are like working for these like weekends that become shorter and shorter. And like you're just like all panicked and like full of this like, yeah, horrific like sickness that's eating you alive.
While you're like pushing these inconsequential projects forward another day with like a manager that you hate.
Can I ask you a question on this?
Because there's so many amazing artists in here who are listening.
And, you know, we sacrifice our life to create.
We put ourselves out there.
And a big question for you is, you know, again, that lady is so inspiring to me to hear that she squashed her dreams and thought it was silly. But it's like, for me, it's like, I'm crazy enough, you're crazy enough to pursue
those dreams, to create this work, to believe in ourselves, you know, that, that did the main
question I'm trying to ask is, does everyone in the world serve a purpose that's higher than
working for someone else or working for the
company or are some people just happy to do that personally i don't think i can because
i feel like there's a fire me that needs to put shit out in the world and create and whether it's
businesses or art but you know are people okay to be subdued by that shit i think i think probably dude honestly and
like i don't think that yeah it's like i don't think there's even anything like necessarily
wrong with it um it's funny because i think that if you did have that passion to create or like
that passion to like that was outside of that i think you i think you would be feeling the same
pain that many of us do that were like
forced into it. But there was like so many people that I work with,
there still is so many people that are just like, yeah, they're,
they're chilling. Like they just go, they, they log in at nine,
they kind of do their, their jobs. Some of them, it's like the most,
it's very important to them, which again, like, yeah,
that's like what their their kind of purpose is in some ways
and so yeah but are we are we trained to think that our that is our purpose like to be
subjugated to work versus being a free human and you know how we were millions of years ago we've
evolved to sitting at a desk on zoom that's that's a good question dude i yeah that i cannot answer
um it's yeah it's funny yeah is it a trained is it a trained behavior and those people like That's a good question, dude. Yeah, that I cannot answer.
Yeah, it's funny.
Yeah, is it a trained behavior?
And those people have just been so beaten. I feel like everyone has something to give to the world, to contribute, to offer themselves.
I don't know.
Maybe I see – maybe I'm the one that's crazy and think the goodness is in us and we all have a superpower.
I don't know. don't i don't
think you i don't think you're crazy there dude i think that um but i think that maybe that uh
yeah that may not come across as is creation like every time and potentially that does come across
as like more of that kind of collaborative thing where you're like you know in a book club or you
know you're reading books and you're you books and you're talking with friends about that
and finding fulfillment there.
I would probably agree with you that
sitting in a desk and moving
around cells on an Excel sheet,
I feel like
there probably is not a ton of people
to find complete and whole
life satisfaction in that.
Well, thank you. Thank you for letting me express that because it's like, we're human.
Yeah, for sure. Let's, let's move on to Gristle Buddies. And then if there's anything else you'd
want to talk about, or just get the word out or what you're working on or what your vision is for
the future, like, are you always going to continue this style of humor?
Or do you plan on, in a way, transforming into other styles or performances?
I'm curious.
Is this something that you'll see yourself do for a long time?
Yeah, definitely, man.
Well, yeah, hopefully.
I definitely hope so.
And I don't think, like, it's funny, dude.
You're probably the same way, I would think.
And, like, you know, let me know. But it's like I could never see myself the same way i would think and like you know let me know but
it's like i could never see myself just not making stuff no matter what happens so like i that's like
all the i feel like that's the only guarantee that i could really have you know it's just like
i i have this desire i i make stuff that's just like what my fingers are like
programmed to do is to like just just do these things and like i i just it's like i have to do them um
and like the the thing i always love to say is i have to expel these things or else uh rot from
within so like it's just very much so like uh it's definitely a thing we die if we don't it's
it's an eternal yeah it's just this eternal kind of feeling i hope um but yeah like uh the humor side of things
like i i'm obsessed dude like i love comedy like one of the book the book one of the huge books i
wrote was like and like pretty much like a is another hundred thousand word satire like that
i just like wrote it's like this like i think it's super funny um it made an old woman physically ill
on amazon reviewer she said that she was physically ill
reading it so like that was my claim that's like the best i feel like artistic review i've ever
gotten and then um yeah like i think that my my favorite part though is like i'll be posting like
dumb shit i tweeted this the other day where it's like i'll be posting about jankum and dane cook
impersonators and you know matlock Matlock and Blue Mountain State,
just dumb shit that you see on TV on one hand.
And then on the other hand, like, it'll be like a second later,
and I'll be posting, like, you know, something,
a poem that I've written about, like, you know,
an unbearable loss in my life or, like, you know,
just other things that are, like, super serious in some ways.
And I love being able to explore both of those things, absolutely.
So I think that it helps to be able to express myself
in both of those really, really specific ways.
And you do it so successfully because it comes across as you in both ways.
Thanks, man. Yeah, I hope so.
Because they very much
so are both parts of me so yeah i appreciate that my pleasure man um and early i wasn't speaking
much as uh are you going to be an artist or all that i meant like stylistically speaking oh right
right yeah dude i've been like i've been loving painting so much these past couple years, like I always have.
And now that people actually kind of want the paintings, it's been a nice, it's been
a very nice shift in terms of people not wanting those paintings before.
So I'm not just sitting here creating and filling our house up and destroying us.
It's been very cool to have those hung in people's houses.
I don't know how you feel, but like... I was going was gonna say i want my beef brocco as a fucking painting and
i think a lot of people in this room would agree that they want the physicals like i don't know
i'm i'm a i'm a traditional classicalist i like making silk screens i like making paintings and
photos i like i like the tangible and there's something raw and real in your brush strokes
that you can't quite communicate as clear when i'm looking through your uh open c and shit i
i just feel it you know it's so thick it's laid on heavy and i don't know i would say
provide more paintings dude i love them we all love them i appreciate that dude yeah do you find
do you find it different for you when
you're like i appreciate seriously thank you so much for the kind words and like because it's
taking a while to get like that style the way i want it to um do you find it different like
like when something is hung up and one of your pieces is hung up in somebody's house
like i just find it to be such an insane thing you know like they're walking by that and enjoying
it every day yeah i don't know do you
you know what's funny about that someone earlier today who i haven't spoken to in like five years
randomly texted me and they worked at maps the psychedelic company and we had a big oh yeah we
had a big maps partnership with like um what's his name hamilton morris and he came and we did
a panel and we talked about psychoactive cactus and And it was a, it was a San Pedro exhibition back in 2019 on Orchard Street.
And there were all these beautiful blue cyanotypes I made in Peru. And, you know, we donated some to
Freya Shaman who was in jail. And we donated some to the orphanage in peru and she texted me today the fucking picture i haven't seen
in a year since it was sold and like hey my friend saw the shaman last week and he's in the jungle
and i'm just like i whoa like this still exists like holy fuck and then and then another point
since i'm back in new york i gave one of my big ass twin flames, uh, physicals that I made. I made
like a few of those as an addition thinking I was going to fit in the photographer world and like
have these big edition prints like they do in the galleries. And you know, before NFTs, this is how
you had to think as an artist, like what's, what's your scarcity? What, what, what kind of additions,
what sizes? And I get another text by my old roommate, who I haven't spoken to in five years,
with him taking a selfie in the same Brooklyn cafe.
And that cafe is closing,
so I'm about to go pick that shit up and bring it home.
Oh, damn, dude.
Oh, so did you just like, yeah, it was printed out.
You loaned it there, or they were going to possibly sell it?
So, you know, back as an art,
like back before I was know back as an art like
back before i was anything really as an artist or in the nft space i was just like i want my
work to be seen i want to put it in my local coffee shop that i literally go to every day
and they and they accepted me and at that time i felt very seen by by someone and you know it
feels good to be seen when you're no one, really. Dude, I completely agree. Yeah, it's funny.
We have, like, a same trajectory there because I was making –
there was, like, this stoner sandwich shop under our place in Chicago
that I would make these, like, funny – I just, like, went in there.
I'm like, hey, do you guys want some funny signs of, like, Shrek, you know,
eating one of your sandwiches via suppository or, like, some other, like, insane shit?
And they're like, yeah, sure.
So they just hung them up in the
window and i was like dude it was like awesome and then like other people would see that in the
community and stuff it was very cool like yeah i completely agree with that i can't tell you how
important those moments are for us to like put ourselves out there to like somebody and also
on the receiving end for these businesses to say yes, to say yes to us
and giving us that next, that next confidence boost forward and look where we are now. And like,
they're still eating sandwiches with the suppositories. I know, I know you're, I didn't
really think about that. Like that morsel of confidence was insane. Like it made me so fucking
happy. Um, and still does like like that they put that thing up there
but and at the time it was like nobody was yeah again like nobody was buying anything nobody
cared nobody was doing anything so to have that thing up there it was like a huge accomplishment
like i was just so happy um and it was just a small drawing but man yeah you're you're dead
on there it's like those little wins that you can kind of notch and then um lube up for the next big
thing so man remember if any of you guys
have a coffee shop and an artist is trying to push their shit on the walls to say yes because
you might be the next die with the most legs right hell yeah dude i think that's a good um
place to end our talk unless you want to talk a little bit about anything else no no thank you so
much man i appreciate it you all your questions were so uh kind and and you're you're and like so uh well
thought out i just really appreciate you having me on and like uh happy to do it dude and ground
beef recognize ground beef i love uh what you're doing here and like uh all the all the shit that
you've made it's just it's cool man it's cool to to be around so many talented people like it's
fucking wild and it's cool that
we all get inspiration from each other and we're all kind of like again legs on this like uh
organism careening towards the abyss i'm stoked dude thank you so much for having me i want to
echo that from a beyond meat point of view and to a ground meat i fuck with you and you know
most importantly i think what's important that you give us is to let go of our
egos to laugh at our to laugh at ourselves when we're being and laugh with the with one with
everyone because that's that's the magic and i think that's the healing that you're given to
the space you know thanks man oh yeah dude i appreciate that hopefully yeah hopefully can uh
provide some sweet some sweet sweet icy hot for the wounds of our generation, man.
I appreciate that.
Much love, man.
Thanks again for coming on.
Thank you, dude.
Yeah, we'll talk soon.
Later on.
Awesome.
See you guys tomorrow.
Have a beautiful day.
