What up, what up, what up, every time I see you, I see you, I see you, I see you, I
Everybody just give us a few moments to get our speakers in here. We will get this
thing started, but you already know what we going to do until then, baby, we're
going to dance and we're going to listen to these vibes.
Big announcement today, baby. We about to turn it up. Let's get it.
Just give us a few more moments, everybody. We just waiting on our special guest, which
already know what to do until then. Just keep on dancing and listen to the vibes.
Oh, yeah, our special guest has arrived. Everyone is up here, man. Let's get this thing on started,
everybody. I would like to welcome everyone to the announcement space for Redacted.
Until we officially announce it, we're going to announce it at this very space. Everyone,
I am joined here by some lovely, lovely, lovely speakers. We have JF Sane. He is head of DeFi at
Gogolpool. Say what's up, my friend. Hey, everyone. Happy to be here. Hey, happy to have you here,
my friend. I am also joined today by, of course, Stephen Gates, co-founder and CEO, Gogolpool.
Please say what's up, my friend. Hello, hello. Hello, hello, me amigo. Nice to have you here
as well. And I'm also joined here by another special guest. We have Luigi DiMeo,
vice president of Ava Labs. Say what's up, my friend. How's everybody doing? Nice to be here.
GM, GM, me amigo. We are very, very appreciative of you being here with us
and super appreciative of the moment that is about to happen. Let's see, man. Before we even
get this thing started, I said I'm gonna get this space hype and I got to get this space hype,
so this is what we're gonna do. If you love Avax, this is a vibe check. I got to make sure the vibes
are right before we get this announcement. If you love Avax, if you love Avalanche,
I need to see hearts in the chat right now, everybody. I need to see hearts in the chat
right now, everybody. Let's get it, baby. Let's get it, baby. Yes, Jason, I see you.
Hearts in the chat, everybody. I see you, Jason. What's up? What's up? Hearts in the chat.
Hey, man, I see you. Nice. I see you. Pixel, I see you. What's up? What's up? There it is.
I'm loving it. See, this is what we need, baby. Hearts in the chat, everybody. Hearts in the
chat. Let's get it, baby. Keep doing them. Keep doing them. And I'm gonna pass this thing on to
Stephen Gates for the official announcement. Keep these hearts going, though. Stephen Gates,
the floor is yours, my friend. Yee-haw. So, Goggle Pool is a decentralized liquid
sticking protocol. Our mission is to help Avalon subnets grow. And to that, with the core DeFi
protocol, we have two really big announcements we'll be announcing this week and next to make
the GGA Avax, our liquid sticking token, the highest yield-bearing LST in all of Avalanche.
The first one is that GGA Avax token holders are now going to benefit from MEV rewards
automatically. No additional work has to happen, but your Avax yield on GGA Avax is just going to
increase from here going forward. Let's go! Wait, wait, wait. So, what do you mean? So,
it's going to be like, uh, it's going to be like GDO? It's going to be like GDO.
Interesting. So, how do you know? Technically, it already is. The first prototype, well,
we've been experimenting with this. We haven't talked about this at all, Luigi. I don't even
think we've talked about it externally whatsoever. But we first started experimenting with
sort of an MEV framework actually exactly 12 months ago. 12 months ago, we wrote the first
MVP. We started working through it. We didn't launch it because MEV is extremely cyclical,
but with the mark coming back, it makes a lot more sense. So, we ran the first prototype
starting December 14th, I believe, or December 10th. And the yield was good in December. And then
now coming through January, numbers are still continuing to look good. The system is looking
healthy. We found a few amazing partners to help out with it. So, retroactively, we'll be adding
in the MEV rewards and 100% of the rewards are flowing into the GG Avax token.
Damn. And that's valid as of today. Yeah, it's happening. So, that's already happening to the
GG Avax token. So, do you guys have any... Sorry, I'm just going to rip here because
I don't really know. We're pretend like there's a private call. Have you guys done any analysis on
what kind of rewards or what kind of yields the MEV might generate? I know it obviously is very,
very lumpy depending on how many meme coins people are trading, but I'm just kind of curious.
Yeah, it's super lumpy. In December, it was an additional 2.5% from the capital we put
towards the prototype. In January, it will seems like it'll hover between 2% and 3%,
but one of the first product updates we'll be doing is releasing a transparency dashboard,
and that will go live in one of our next engineering cycles.
And then that will have the actual numbers, and you get to see it kind of retroactively.
Because it's, for us, the reason why we're not marketing an APR number at Luigi is because of
that. It's like just so up and down. It's really tough to say. So, instead, we're just
going to expose all the data and let people make decisions.
Awesome. Awesome. So, that 2.5% is annualized, correct?
Yep. Got it. Awesome. Well, that's pretty exciting. I don't know how much you can
reveal, but I'd be kind of curious to understand how many nodes you have to run to do this,
how complicated it is, what you're seeing on the inside. I think one thing with respect to MEV,
in particular, is people feel like it's like the dark arts, and you're passing these dark arts
yields back to the good people, and that's kind of the way people view it. But I think giving
people a little bit of a better sense of what exactly happens could be beneficial.
For sure. So, we'll be releasing more information as the weeks progress,
starting with the transparency dashboard. After that, it's going to be letting
mini-pull operators stay to MEV-enabled infra. Then, after that, this is where it gets a little
bit fuzzy, but we'll see over the next kind of four weeks, we'll see how the system keeps
performing, and then we'll go to, hopefully, open source everything. But, again, we'll see
as it goes, no promises. But our whole goal here is, like you said, to kind of be mevinhood,
kind of flow profits back, only do, hopefully, block out all the shitty MEV that's happening,
and then flow profits back to GGA DAX takers, and then have all that yield
kind of be directed towards helping subnets decentralize further.
Yeah, just to state the obvious, I mean, this is, I think, a really exciting use of
blockchain tech. Like, this is kind of, I think, why everyone came to this space.
In tri-fi, this happens routinely, and all the profits get kept in, like, you know,
some tower somewhere close to the exchanges. But, in our case, we're going to be able to
flow all of that profit back to every ecosystem, every ecosystem user that wants to participate.
So, really, really exciting.
Yeah, I think, I think it's a natural extension of, you know, what I would do if I was managing
a liquid staking protocol. You already have the stake. You already run in your experience with
nodes. So, I think it makes a lot of sense. Like, if people are going to get, you know,
sandwiched and be paying fees, I guess they can indirectly participate by also owning GGA DAX and
some of that yield. So, I think it's very comforting for people to know that at least
there's somebody out there trying to capture an MEV that's going to, you know, pass it back through.
And hopefully, you know, hopefully the yield makes a lot of sense over time.
I'm actually pretty curious. I'm going to be the curious one just for the audience out there.
Steven, just for anyone out there who might not even know what MEV is, can you kind of just go over
like the basics? Yeah, so MEV and Luigi, you can chime in however you want as well with your
perspective. But MEV is blockchain's way of doing high-frequency trading, essentially.
So, validator nodes store all transactions that are being gossiped before they get posted to
the chain through what's called the mempool. And it turns out this mempool, because it has
all the trading data before it gets posted. If you can get access to the mempool,
then now you can start entering your own transactions and order them however you want.
And you can sort of construct the next block that gets posted to the blockchain. That's the
idealized end state of it. There's a lot of nuance as we dig deeper into it.
But by posting these kind of available transactions and optimizing the blocks that are getting created,
they're able to optimize how much profit is being generated off of each block.
And then the big question is, so far, all that profit, as Luigi referenced, all that profit
is flowing to sort of dark forest, shadowy, centralized entities. So we're not really sure
like what's happening with it. All we know is that use is getting arbitrarily higher prices.
And then you see Flashbots, now you see JITO. These are attempts on their own networks to
help even the playing field of the NICOGO pool. They're on the same thing on Avalanche for the
C-Chain. But what I'm also really excited about is being able to apply these learnings to start
creating a very healthy subnet ecosystem. Because I think this gives any new subnet that launches,
if they have a sufficient amount of transactions, it gives them a built-in revenue pipeline. It's
a new source of revenue that they can direct for it, and they can build on top of the
GOGO MEV platform. What do you mean by that, Stephen? Why don't you pull that apart a little
bit? When you say that they become their own revenue generator, what exactly is happening
behind the scenes for them? Yeah, so every subnet is its own blockchain that has its own
transactions. Maybe it has its own liquidity providers on it. And then we'll see how liquidity
kind of gets dispersed throughout the universe or the Avalanche ecosystem. But typically,
if there's, for example, two pools out of WAC on one subnet, it takes a specific team.
They call these guys searchers. It takes a searching team to go off and find those
opportunities, do the arbitrage, and they capture the profit. And that's a lot of
very specialized skill set to actually perform MEV and to manage the infrastructure.
It kind of runs everything from finance to chain-stooping to hardware to some sales and BD.
So it's a very, very specific, nuanced skill set to capture this profit. It can be enormously
profitable. So for these subnet teams that are launching, like I'm thinking of
Movement Labs specifically, they would be a prime candidate. Like, how can they
expose their mempool to this open MEV market that lives across? You can think of it as a
how do we help construct a global mempool for the entire Avalanche network? And then once that is
there and with the pipes need to get laid down with AWM, so that searchers now have an easy way
to look at this global mempool, perform their own transactions, submit their own bundles.
Then suddenly, because it's all running on this framework,
these rails can split the profits. So a lot of the profits that derive from MEV that's happening
on the M1 subnet, that can actually go straight back into their protocol, their team, their token,
however the team wants to handle it. And the cool thing is, I'm imagining Fusion,
which is not too far off, but where that team can specify their own rule sets,
saying we want this type of MEV, or we'll only allow up to this much,
or this is our revenue take rate on it, or here's the cost to access our mempool,
et cetera, et cetera. So that way, any V becomes not so much just these teams of searchers
extracting as much value as they can, but now all that revenue can just on rails,
like clockwork, flow back to these subnet VMs who have implemented or kind of tied together
into this framework. Interesting. I guess one thing that's been hotly debated across different
ecosystems is like, is it better to have independent teams do this on their own,
or should there be something like MEV boost on Ethereum where everybody aligns to the same client
and shares the MEV? I really don't know, to be honest, my view on this in particular,
but I'd be kind of interested to hear what you think, because I can see both sides.
Of this, to be honest, but it does present challenges. There are a lot of trade-offs, effectively.
There are a lot of trade-offs. I think the one trade-off that can't be made
is that subnets need to maintain control, right? So that they need to be able to say...
I think I'm talking about for the C-chains.
C pro challenge I take. Oh, for the C-chains, specifically?
Yeah, for this comment, yeah.
I don't know, man. I think they're just two different models, right? Obviously, on one side
with having sort of the JITO client, like now you have one entity who can push the JITO client,
get all these slanted validators to switch over to this, and that presents its own challenges,
but it provides enough of a concentration of effort that kind of we're seeing this good,
even though on Cosmos we'll skip protocol, you're seeing it get repeated where it's like,
you're seeing it get repeated where it's like, okay, that can be very successful
because if it's all just different entities with their own clients,
they're not all working for the same incentives, not all working for the same reason,
but if you're able to create one framework that's hopefully as open and permissible as possible,
then that's where I think things can get pretty good. But yeah, I mean, they both have risks.
Yeah, I think that's right. I mean, like, generally speaking, I guess like the trade off would be
something like this. Like, if everybody aligns to one client, all the MEV-ers in aggregate
would generate more MEV than if everybody runs their own client and tries the MEV, right?
But if everybody does it for one client, the actual MEV-er might be a little bit more powerful
than it otherwise would have been. So it's like this natural, and I'm talking from the network's
perspective, right? Because that's my perspective. So it's definitely an interesting trade off,
both waves, but I kind of like, you know, I've always been a fan of competition. I really
don't. So I kind of like having them duke it out. No, for sure. I mean, what we see,
like, I don't know, I don't know if you talked to the searching teams on Avalanche,
but the feedback that we got was, like, for, well, essentially, the risks get richer,
right? So some of the teams were able to get a head start. They're able to go to 200,
300, 400 nodes. They're able to lay down some extra vd types because of that,
and they're able to conquer most of it, and then because of that, it took most of their
profits themselves. It's not all of them, actually. So it's, you know, for us, I think we approach it
more from your perspective as well, where as a network, we're here to try and grow the
Avalanche network. Google pull is not cross-chain. We're not deploying our forks on different,
you know, wherever liquidity is. So for us, it's all in on helping the Avalanche
network grow as quickly and as big as possible. So we definitely take more the perspective of,
look, there can be one client, people can plug into it, not have to worry about all the ops,
that's their value prop for it, but it'll be more competitive, right? And then hopefully,
in aggregate, they'll generate more profits for everybody. And then with these rails,
those profits can now be kind of channeled to key initiatives to keep growing.
I mean, this is pretty exciting, from my perspective. So congratulations to you guys.
I do think it was something that's a natural extension of what you're doing. And
I think, like, especially if you extend it to subnets, it's strictly better for not only the
network, but for the subnets, because, you know, you need these pools armed. I think that's
something that, like, is lost on certain people. You don't want stale prices and people forget
that. Everybody just automatically assumes the worst when they hear the words MEV. But,
you know, it's just naturally arbitrage, and you need these things to be armed for them to be
functional. Why do people assume the worst about MEV? Because they think they're getting front run,
because they technically are getting front run. But they're getting front run to pay the price
that is prevailing on other exchanges, right? So if, let's say, like, you have an outbox
USDC pool, and the price on that pool is $20, and then you have another, you have a
Binance market that's at $20.15, you know, why would I sell at the $20 pool if it's on Binance
at $20.15? Somebody's got to bring those prices in line. And, you know, that's what the MEVers
do, right? So they effectively bring those prices in line. But in order to do that, sometimes they
front run your orders. That's an additional thing that they do on top of simply arbitrage in the
prices. Yeah, so they're sort of like good arbitrage and bad arbitrage, right? Yeah.
And I think on top of that, there's a lot of other negative externalities as well. For example,
with MEV, you're incentivized to spam transactions, because one of them will propagate and get
through, and you can basically calculate, like, okay, I'm going to spam this many transactions to
cost me this much gas, because I know when I win this transaction, I'll make 2% of profit.
So it's still worth it for me to do so. And I can really clog up prices. I think historically,
that's where you see on Ethereum, that's where all the, you know, gas prices were really,
really high. And then on Gido, or rather on Solano, you see the network being destabilized.
On Avalanche, it's actually not that much of a problem from what we've seen. It's more the
sandwiching, and then kind of people being disjointed and having their own incentives.
Yeah, the sandwich. Do you know why on Avalanche, it's not as bad as, let's say, Ethereum?
Luigi, do you want to say it, or should I? You got it.
Well, I think it's because of the Snowman consensus, right? It's just strictly faster.
And also the way that the mempool works as well, it's just tougher to make your MEV pool efficient.
Like, you need to hit a critical mass of nodes to work together, and that takes capital and
a lot of know-how. So I think overall, the barrier to entry on Avalanche is a lot higher,
and the people that do play the game, like Snowman's, they're just the supercharged stuff,
so the consensus makes it more flexible as well. Yeah, I mean, lower gas fees equals better
arbitrage, too. Yeah. But I've seen transactions get front run on Avalanche in a single pool,
so it wasn't arbitrage. For sure. So it does still occur, right? Oh, for sure. So it's still
a problem. Yeah, there's a lot of, and the meme coins, I think we're really good at showing this,
and especially if it's a uni v2 pool, uni v2 decks, it's super easy to sandwich, and people were
sandwiching for like, six cents from what I was seeing. So like, there are bots literally buying
in front of my order, you know, for six cents. And you know, I have a lot of, I've been talking
about this since 2021. But like, in my opinion, a lot of the sandwiching problems are more UX issue,
right? Like if you really think about it, whatever you set your slippage to, let's say your slippage
is set to like, 50 basis points, you're basically saying like, I'm willing to pay up to 50 basis
points. Like, that's not really a great way to put an order in because you're basically saying
like, buy it up 50 basis points, and then sell it back to me. Right. And so the UX should be more
like it should, there should be a feature that automatically detects what the, you know, given
spread is and tries to like, set your slippage to that because, you know, when people are,
are shit coining, they might set their slippage to 5% and forget it there. And like,
they've been basically getting front run on every transaction afterwards. So I do think part
of the sandwiching issue is like, you're basically submitting market orders with very high limits.
And like, you know, that's like, not a great way to try.
I never thought about it from that perspective. I just buy things just willy nilly. I've never
even touched the slippage button. And you have that you have an appropriately shit coined.
That's for sure. Because, you know, if you did, then you if you haven't set that 20%,
then you haven't appropriately shit coined.
Means if you haven't been robbed by 20%, you haven't shit coined yet.
Steven, so I know, I know we got a big announcement coming up next week as well. Can you can you
tease it a little bit for the people or you just drop the outfit if you want?
Zero fees anywhere. Zero fees anywhere. The EVX token is going to turn to a pure utility
staking token. So if you need to stake a VAX, but you don't want to mess around with moving
to the pea chain, suddenly using a liquid staking token is just as viable now. And the UX on it is
going to be unparalleled. Wait, so what are the what are the fees now? 15% and then 10% on
SA VAX yield jacks. I'm actually not entirely sure. So we're bumping ours down to 0% and
going all in. And where does it where does it? Yeah, so so sorry, go ahead. So we know that
so we're going to be getting the basic validation fee and then we're going to be getting the MBV
fee. And there's going to be nothing taken on the whole stack, which is why we know for sure that
we're going to have the highest yielding LSC. I mean, almost for sure there could be like weird
things that happened. But it's very unlikely. So yeah, so that's why we're making this
announcement and calling it that. And also, we no longer have a space next Monday. Yeah, clearly.
Completely wrong review of his next space.
Dude, I got so excited, man. Drop that out.
Yeah, you told me to do it. So we're doing it.
He did bring in all to himself. I yes, so you know, because I like to be the wet blanket always.
So where were the where was the 15% going before the fee that you were you were charging before?
15%. Well, on the mass GGA vax, that 15% goes to node operators, or mini poll operators,
essentially 50% fee goes to the mini poll operator who got matched with your liquid stake. And then
anything that's unmatched went to the protocol treasury. So now we're phasing out the node
operator commission will be paying or will be paying out all the node operator commissions to
honor everybody who is running a mini poll right now for the validation periods, new mini pools are
going to have the 0% commission and then coming very soon is going to be allowing many pools to
partake in the MEV pool. So we'll be earning a boosted a fax for words from that. Got it.
If I'm understanding the rationale, it's basically like, we don't need to like,
we don't need to like, charge this fee and pass it through. We'll simply do MEV work instead on
everybody's behalf and replace that fee with that. Is that is that correct?
Yeah, exactly. And hopefully with this, this is just going to be an actual primitive building
block for defy on avalanche, where it just becomes strictly like, okay, do I want to stake
on the P chain myself? Or do I want to use GGA vax? Nice. So we
charge adoption. Yeah, and we looked at sort of the situation from the mini pool
runners point of view, who's already earning the underlying rate and earning GDP on top of that
and then earning any sort of airdrops plus access to like Ava launch, like early investment programs.
So there's already so much going to the mini pool holders that sort of our takeaway was that
they probably don't even know that they're getting this this fee because it's a very small fee.
And then if we get rid of it, it allows us to have like, the most competitive LSD, I think,
ever, it's sort of the, I think, Stephen, you sort of point us out like the purest
form of yield, that you can sort of generate, because there's essentially no fees on it.
And we boosted it with never. Yes, the trade off. Yeah, so the balance will naturally be,
you know, people will have to do the math on what it's on what's better, right?
Holding GGI box. Yeah, and I'm going to keep saying about GGI box and, and being able to
collateralize that versus running the mini pool and getting the airdrops plus the the GGP that
you were in the mini pool. So like, there'll be some like, that's like generally speaking, the
setup. Exactly. Interesting. I love that there's no fees.
Good stuff, guys. Proud of you guys.
Hey, appreciate you, Luigi. I guess I guess right now, I'll open the space up for closer remarks from
our panel of speakers. For everyone out there, welcome to yield week. I know we say we're not
gonna have the space on Monday, but we are going to have this space on Monday, because it's going
to be more of an AMA format. So people can come up, ask questions, and talk to the and talk to
the go-go team. But yeah, up until then, I'm going to ask closer remarks from our speakers,
we're going to go ahead and start off with you, JF. Any closing remarks out there for the people?
No, I mean, I sort of was ready to talk about come to the space next week, but I think everyone
knows why now. So I mean, I guess, you know, just sort of, I'll talk my, you know, going back to
why we are in this industry, really quickly, like, front running is actually illegal. If you know
what your client is, like, intratify, if you're front running, like, a known trade, this is like
illegal, but if you call it order flow, and you do a deal with, let's say, Robinhood, and you buy
all of their order flow data, you are legally allowed to trade on that. So I just want to come
back to the MED point. And like, this is, I think, a super exciting way to use blockchain tech. And I'm
really proud to be part of this team that is actually pushing that forward. So yeah.
Oh, we're happy you're on the team, JF. We appreciate you.
I'll just go real quick because I got a job. But yeah, I mean, like, pretty, pretty excited
about the announcements today. I don't think I knew too much about them. So I think it's,
it's, I think you guys are doing a great job. You're always thinking you're very aggressive.
You guys have your, you guys have the right sort of longevity in mind in terms of building
this protocol. And, and you guys have avalanche and subnets front, you know, you know, front and
center for your thinking. So really excited about this. And, you know, love to see what's next.
Appreciate the kind words, Luigi. You know, we were just trying to expand
avalanche in the subnet economy. And of course, you already know our mission is to bring blockchain
to the world. So yes, we appreciate you, brother. Stephen, you got any closing remarks for the
people out there? All good. Stay tuned. Come next week, one day. Pretty excited to get this
roadmap shipped and start getting that transparent dashboard up so that we can have a rolling
conversation about it. And I'm also very excited to start using like integrating ggavax more closely
rather the growth of ggavax much more closely as fundamental pipes that any subnet can use
to generate their own revenue. I think that's one key thing that's missing for a long time.
People have been, I said the deals that I've been a part of one of the key reasons why they're
considering an L2 is because they're getting promised like, look, if you roll your own L2,
use our sequencer, this is now a built in way for you to generate revenue. Now on avalanche,
we have something competitive as well, through MEV, both on chain and on C chain. So extremely excited
and big shout out to one of my buddies who messaged me that he's on his alt account.
So shout out to him. Shout out to Dave. Dave's been everything to me stuff like that.
Shut out Dave, everybody. Everybody's hearts in the chat for Dave. Hearts in the chat for Dave.
Will you? On my close remarks, just want to say I appreciate everybody for coming out today.
If you guys can all do me a favor, it's like 70 people in this in this Twitter space,
which is absolutely crazy. It's super exciting. If everyone can look at the top,
there's a post at the top, go ahead and tap on that post and hit the share button. We would
really appreciate it. This goes a long way towards helping avalanche expand as well as the subnet
economy. The more that we can incentivize GGA VAX holders, that means the more avalanche
validators that we can launch in one click. Yeah, I said that in one click and for half
cough, baby. Right now we got enough available for 39 avalanche validators and we want everybody
to know what's going on here. So if you can please go ahead, tap that post at the top and hit the
share button. We would really appreciate it, but also I'm sure you would really appreciate it as
well because I know how bullish everyone in here is on avalanche, but that's the end of the space.
Everybody, please make sure you come to the AMA on Monday. We'll be announcing more information
about that very soon. On Wednesday, we'll also be coming out with a more detailed article about
our Mev program. So you guys can go ahead and look forward to that. Look forward to reading that.
If you just kind of pop into the space, you definitely miss some Alpha. There's more than
just the Mev. You definitely missed Alpha if you just got into the space. So you need to go
ahead, rewind this thing on back as soon as we hit in and go ahead and make sure you listen to
this recording because it's very, very important that you get all the Alpha. But until then,
my friends, I'll see you guys tomorrow, Wednesday, and again on Monday. Appreciate y'all, everyone
out there. Actually, no, I'm going to end with my old sign off. I miss my old sign off. You don't
got to go home, but you got to get a phone out of here, y'all. Peace. Shout out to Dan. Shout out Dan.