Alright, welcome into the next edition of Money Moves, excited to talk to Michael and
the Trips team today about tokenizing creator copyrights on Avalanche. So we're gonna get
started here in a few minutes. We're gonna get our two speakers up here and then we'll
get our conversation started. So thanks everybody for joining so far and we'll let a few more
folks trickle in the room as I add up our two guests today. So it looks like Morgan's
is up here. Morgan, how are you today? I'm good. Can you hear me? Yeah, sounds good. Happy Friday.
We are here. Michael, how are you doing? Great, happy Friday. Can you hear me as well? Yeah,
we definitely can and happy Friday to you as well. You're the only one joining from your side as
well, correct? I am indeed. Amazing, amazing. Well, thanks for hopping in. I know more and more
people will join as the thing gets started, but I'm sure we can probably kick things off with a
little bit of introduction and kind of high level of what Money Moves is and then we can jump into
the conversation. So Morgan, I'll let you take it from here to say hello to everyone and then
bring our special guest, Michael. I have thought we should change this to a meme spaces because
that would just garner a lot more participation, but no, all kidding aside, thank you guys all
for joining the latest Money Moves. I think this is the second one, Kyle, of the year that we're
having, but I don't know, like maybe the seventh overall. Yeah, I think we're at number seven
overall, but we're just getting to the second one of 2024. Yeah, but yeah, all that's to say is for
those that are kind of new to the Money Moves series, what we basically did was kind of set
up the spaces as a safe space where we can kind of talk all things tokenization without all of
like the jargon that a lot of people always throw around and really kind of get into talking
about like really like what it is that is tokenization, what are the different components,
why different people should care, why it might matter to them. And we've had on different kind
of guests that are focused on tokenization in different ways, whether it's from like an
infrastructure perspective, tokenizing money market funds, we've had a lot of different
traditional financial services players come up. And today, I'm super excited to have Michael
Finkelstein on, founder and CEO of TRIPS, which we will definitely get into, but it will be all
about talking about the tokenization of creator IP, why that is important, what TRIPS means and can
do for creators going forward, what the kind of master plan is. And yeah, I'm really excited to get
into this. Maybe before we do, Michael, I'd love for you to kind of come up and introduce yourself,
talk about like your background as well. And then we'll get into TRIPS.
Thanks, Morgan. Hi, everyone. Great to be a part of this. I'm incredibly excited to chat about
IP, all things IP, tokenization. And I'm assuming everyone can hear me okay. If not, just Morgan,
let me know. So my name is Michael Finkelstein. Great to meet you. I'm the CEO and founder of TRIPS.
TRIPS, I guess, let me give you a couple minutes on myself. And then we'll get into a little bit
around kind of why we're here and how we all kind of came together. So I started my career
in investment banking, TradFi, as I guess people like to say, I ended up going back to business school
and have been a builder, creator, entrepreneur for since that time. And I think that, you know,
really kind of the two most germane businesses to trip were in 2008, I helped build a company,
which built one of the larger copyright businesses and music, which we ended up
selling in 2012. Copyrights, really interesting, esoteric, largely misunderstood asset class. And
I think we're going to get into IP a lot today. Copyrights being one of the three pillars. And I
think incredibly important as the next generation of kind of the web comes to bear and whether it's web
three, AI, and the intersection of all things in the future. So we'll chat about that. I'm sure
at length Morgan and then in 2014, I ended up building one of the leading content lending
businesses and rolled out the first data driven asset based lender and think of us as using
technology and data to allow any small business to open up their balance sheet and access capital
is really reserved for the very high end. And we were able to kind of bring that down market and
democratize, if you will, access to capital for small businesses all over the country,
built that for five and a half years. And I think really those two businesses led to me thinking
about what was next and the manifestation of both of those really was the seed of how
trick is born. So let me stop there. And, you know, we can get into obviously a little
bit about the vision and what have you. But Morgan, is that a good kind of jumping off point?
That is a great jumping off point. But all that all that's to say is and from what I hear,
and why I think we were excited to partner with you is like, you actually have a lot of
experience in the space. And so, you know, firsthand, like a lot of the team points,
which I'm sure we'll get into and kind of how potentially what you what you're building
can address a lot of those things. So, you know, that's why that's why I'm definitely
excited to kind of to dive into. But maybe before we get into the details,
can you talk a little bit about where the trip's name came from? I was kind of wondering that
myself. And then when you explain it to me, I was like, Oh, I had no idea. So maybe
talk about that. And I think those of us in the space who may be our creators, like,
there's varying levels of kind of understanding of kind of problems, pain points,
legality is that exists. And so we'd love to kind of maybe let's start from from the
trips name and we'll go from there. Absolutely. And I think, you know,
we're going to get into a lot of this. And I think content, copyright, you know,
dare I say, IP is having its moment right now. And incredibly important in understanding what
creator rights are, how they come to bear, and how they're enforced, I think is going to be a
large part of, you know, the discussion today and why I think and I know we'll get into this Morgan,
why I think blockchain as an underlying technology is so interesting. And the IP use case really
kind of is a match made in heaven. But coming back to your question trips, the trips name is
actually based on a multinational accord. It's one of the most comprehensive multinational
multilateral agreements on IP that really governs IP protection around the world.
It was in the mid 90s 95. It was called the trade related aspects of intellectual property rights
where a I think I think it's 160 or so countries came together to effectuate a incredibly
comprehensive agreement on how IP should be governed on really creating a mechanism by which
intellectual property which which by the way, I'm a believer that it's just as important as real
property, just like someone may own a home or a car, they own their IP. And we'll get into what
that means. But the trips is based on that title. It's a trade related aspects of intellectual
property rights. It's called the trips accord. I figured why not grab that name and 30 years later
as IP becomes the center storm of the next generation of content distribution. I think it's
important. And so that's where it came from. Cool. And so as you kind of think about that,
can you talk to us a little bit more about kind of what exactly is kind of the problem that
you're looking to solve? Why is kind of identifying, identifying provenance of IP such
such a kind of difficulty these days? And then potentially why kind of you decided that blockchain,
I feel like we threw out all the buzzwords at the beginning were like blockchain tokenization AI,
but but kind of getting into like the details of why do you feel like kind of the blockchain
component is something that will be instrumental in kind of helping some of those pain points.
Absolutely. So, so, you know, the problem is really kind of one of where creators are headed.
So, you know, kind of not to throw out too many stats, but a billion people self identify
as creators in five years, one in four American kids want to be YouTubers. I think when you look
at that, the core kind of problem we're trying to solve at a very high level is how do you
provide them a path to financial independence? How do you provide them a path to pursuing their
dreams and earning a living out of it? And they are, dare I say, the largest unbanked
community in the world. And when you look at those numbers, it's a staggering number
of people that are trying to do what they want and fulfill their dreams in doing so.
And so to me, that starts with two fundamental beliefs, one of which is how do creators prove
what they own is theirs? So from a common perspective, they clearly lack the tools
and infrastructure necessary to protect their IP. We'll get into what I believe is the next
generation of IP landscape around tracking and conveyance and having a system where
actual rights and the rightful right owners receive just compensation. And the second thing they need
is they need access to capital to grow their business. And I think when you talk to these
creators, which we've done a lot, you hear a couple of things. But thematically,
they all believe they're small business owners. And they believe that they want the tools necessary
to make that small business a reality. And that's what we're doing. We're happy to be
doing it through what we think is an elegant solution using the blockchain. And we're going
to talk about that. But at its core, that's the problem we're trying to solve. We're trying to give
a billion people in five years a path to financial freedom. And to do that, we needed
to build a system where they can effectuate ownership and they can access capital.
And when you say creators, you really mean across the spectrum of the different types of web2
and ultimately, I guess, web3 platform, right? Absolutely. I think the creator, for lack of
better bucket, the creator economy overall really falls into music, long form video,
a la YouTube, Patreon, Twitch. It's interesting. Long form is a minute or more. Short form video,
TikTok, Instagram, and you've got all sorts of other areas. You've got artists and you've got
writers and what have you. But we're talking about, at its core, copyright. Copyright governs
all of that. And we're going to get into probably a little bit of the weeds on why that's important
and how you can effectuate permanence. But copyright is the enabling feature which allows
creators to actually move themselves to financial freedom. But yes, I'm talking about all creators.
We happen to be starting, as you know, Morgan, on YouTube and we happen to be starting in long form.
But extensively, the future vision is all content. Yeah. And I think that was a really
critical component that you just went over in terms of all those different well-known and
already well-used web2 platforms that you guys are looking, you mentioned you're starting with
YouTube to really integrate with. That, in my mind, is what makes it so exciting in the first
place because it's really effectively plugging into a traditional business model and really just
making it better, helping people that already use these platforms, again, solve a real-world
pain point and really take things forward and inherently bring them on chain without them
knowing. And I saw the demo of the platform and it was awesome because you can't tell it all that
it's blockchain-based. But it's really how do we improve real-world businesses, real-world
business models. And so I think it's awesome that you guys started with YouTube and obviously
plans to expand to the different web2 platforms and then ultimately web3. But when we're focusing
on trips as a platform, can you maybe talk a little bit about what are the core products
and features that potentially exist today that when a creator comes onto the trips platform,
what can they expect? And then maybe, I know you don't want to give everything away, but
a little bit more about what people can expect or what are some of the things that you want to
build into the platform going forward. Sorry, I was on mute. Absolutely. And I think, just to
kind of touch on the point around web2 and web3, I do and I appreciate what you said, Morgan.
You know, right now, creators are living in the web2 world. That's where they're monetizing. And
we very much believe that, A, we wanted to focus on the amplification of those efforts and allowing
them to supercharge, if you will, what they're doing today while slowly introducing them to what
we all think is going to be the next generation of the web. And I think that, you know,
the word bridge, kind of web2.5 or bridging, that to me gets thrown out too much. But I do believe
there is an introductory component and then allowing them to migrate to what, like I said,
in five years, I think the web will look slightly different. And, you know, we are already looking
forward to that and talking to some great web3 partners, maybe on the Twitter spaces as well.
And so to me, you know, it was important to start with web2. What did that mean? What does that mean?
That means making it a very web2 style interface, allowing them to dip their toes into
why blockchain is important and really abstracting kind of a lot of the things. And Morgan,
I know you've seen the platform, abstracting a lot of the things that may be scary or nervous to
them. And so today, we're live. We just launched recently. Today, any YouTube creator can come on
in three easy clicks, kind of accomplish what we're about to kind of talk about, which is
they link their, they authenticate themselves through Google, they link their YouTube,
they click the button, and we effectively spin up a mirror of what we call TCI, so tokenized
copyright interest. So if I'm a YouTuber and I have 100 videos, you come to trips and you kind of
make a couple of clicks. And what you'll see on our side is 100, again, what we call TCI,
think of them as a 721 wrapper that has stamped copyright ownership on chain. And we can talk
about how we do that in a more technical way. And you have almost a Robin Hood-esque, if you will,
dashboard of your IPS, because that's what they are. They are assets. They are yours.
And they are the means by which you should be able to kind of grow your business.
We then allow on one click for creators to effectively expose their data securely to
third-party institutional capital providers that we have partnered with. And so behind the scenes,
there's a lot going on, which, like I said, we can talk a little bit about it. But effectively,
that's it today. We have obviously high hopes in the future. I know we're going to talk about the
future a little bit further into the spaces. But today, that's what happens. And so any
YouTube creator can come on that's monetized, click a button. We meant 721s around each piece,
I think it was a wrapper around each piece of content that they own today. It's an existing
library. We have an auto-min feature, which our creators love. Every time they post a video on
YouTube, we meant their own kind of distributed ledger around that piece of content. And think
of those TCIs, if you will, as A, the stamp of carbonons on chain, and B, what I would say is
the central source of truth around how that content performs. And I think that's incredibly
important in the future, especially with what's going on with copyright infringement and where
we're headed. I'm pacing myself, how many times am I going to drop in the AI?
I know, I feel like that's going to become a meme in and of itself, if it hasn't already. But
I really like the idea, especially if I'm, I mean, to be clear, I'm not a YouTube influencer.
But if I was, I thought it was really cool how, on your platform, you can log in and
upload your entire library of videos. And you don't have to go one by one and just
mint, NFTs are minted, your entire discography, if you will.
I thought that was really cool.
Yeah. And the word influencer, you are an influencer, Morgan.
The word influencer has a meaning right out there. But we also, when we start thinking about this,
it's an incredible, broad group of people that are on YouTube and run effectively a small business of
one. And to your point, we really wanted to make this open in a system where anyone can come on.
And we bring their entire library individually at the asset level on chain. And I think,
and it's for, I mean, you know, come to trips and three clicks and you're in. And I think,
you know, that's becoming increasingly important. You brought the word discography,
and I think a lot of the Web 3 focus has, you know, rightfully so, but in music.
And I think next is video and hopefully we're at the early stage of that.
And so, you mentioned that once kind of creators come on and mint these
TCIs, which are copyrights and which establish provenance, why is that so important? Like,
what's the so what there? And like, what do you think is the implication kind of of that
minting and the establishing of the provenance?
Yeah, it's a great question. So I think there's, I'll tackle that a couple of ways,
because I think if we if we maintain our long kind of vision of two arcs, right, one is,
how do you allow creators to protect what they make and monetize what they make. So on the
what we'll call protection tracking convey inside. And then the second is how you access capital.
And I think the TCIs have implications in both. And so we'll take the latter first,
we have created a mechanism by which creators of any kind can, on YouTube, have any size
that are monetized can access institutional capital. One of the things I did at my last
company in Fintech was understand that there are incredible products, financial products that
sometimes are limited to the high end, if you will. And one of the themes at my last company in
here is how do you use technology and data to bring what is done at the high end or limited to
the 1% down to everyone. So that is what we're doing, we are allowing just just as if Justin
Bieber, you know, sells his catalog, or Katy Perry, or whoever has monetized their
copyrights, we have created a mechanism and a system for everyone to be able to do that.
And so that starts with ownership, that starts with data, that starts with proving kind of
an understanding of why copyrights are important. And copyrights, you know, not to kind of get
into the weeds, are incredibly interesting digitally native asset, which I know we're going
to talk about a little when we talk about kind of RWAs. But they're an incredibly interesting
digitally native asset. And just to kind of give a simple kind of understanding, any YouTuber, TikToker,
any creator that creates something unique and original and publishes it to a permanent medium,
a platform, has created their own copyright. It does not need to be registered, it is one of the
rare assets that is a first use paradigm. And so if you think about the data movements in those
things, you can actually create really interesting notions of provenance, which are incredibly
important because as we bring capital, institutional capital in, which I believe is one of the three
pillars of making kind of the creator economy and financial freedom a reality, as we bring capital in,
understanding copyright, IP and ownership is important. I think in the future, and then I'll
let you ask questions more in the future. I think in the future, let's come back to kind of the other
arc, ownership of copyright and IP is going to be table stakes, period, full stop. I mean, if those
of you who haven't seen Joanna Stern's interview with Mira Marati, the CTO of OpenAI that occurred,
I don't know, at this point a week ago, Joanna Stern works for the Wall Street Journal. If those
of you haven't watched it, I would encourage you to watch it. And he talks about a lot of the IP
copyright ownership implications that we are facing today, and that is going to be a monumental fight
over the next year or two as the next 20 years of content distribution becomes ironed out.
And so starting with who owns what is to me base level, and we want to be that place, we want to
be that blockchain based IP registry that can effectuate that. So that's why it's important.
I was going to say, I remember we were talking this week and you're like,
copyright is distinctly different from patents and other things, or you have to register it.
How do you establish a legal recourse around copyrights?
Yeah, so copyrights are at a very kind of broad level, one of three pillars of IP.
Copyrights are first use paradigm, meaning once you publish it in a permanent medium,
it's yours for, depending on the type, but called 70 years past your natural life.
Copyright law has actually been around, not to kind of geek out too much, for 400 years.
First copyright law was written into the actual US Continental Congress in 1790, and it's well
formed across the world. Suing on it is a different story. To sue on copyright, you actually do need
to register your copyright, which, candidly, blockchain is, I believe in the future,
an incredible mechanism to effectuate permanence, having automatic registrations.
The Department of Copyright is probably a long time off for that.
And then once you actually prove provenance that you created this and this is yours,
you can pursue infringement. Those infringements vary. Some of them are statutorily kind of
driven. Some of them are more contractual driven. They happen to be, you know, we're not
going to get into a kind of a session on copyright law, but effectively-
That'll be Money Moves Part 2.
Okay, fine. We'll lose three quarters of the audience. Okay, but needless to say,
establishing copyright ownership is the start of where everything goes. And I think that's really
incredible use case for the blockchain, right? Because if you think about,
I mean, what is the blockchain, right? It cryptographically records things that are
immutable. It's a recreation of facts that are in an immutable way. And I mean, IP to me is the front
and center of digitally native assets and should be recorded on a blockchain and then kind of
move forward from there. I think that's actually a good segue into kind of the liquidity and
institutional side of things. And several of the conversations that you and I have had over
the past several months has been around how and why firms like private equity firms historically
do invest in kind of comparable assets at like a much higher level. And we talk about kind
of the likes of Justin Bieber and Taylor Swift. Can you just shed some more light on that for our
community in terms of like, who are the types of institutions that play in this space? What is
their interest in it from, frankly, from a financial perspective? And then we can get
into how TRIPS is added in that space. But let's maybe level set with why and what types
of institutions are interested and invested in this space and what types of things that
they look for from an investment perspective. Absolutely. And we'll keep it general and we
can circle back to TRIPS on this if you want. But I do think it's important because I think
understanding institutional capital drivers is what really kind of will make this work in the
future. And I think, you know, you're starting to see obviously more and more institutional
adoption. Dare I say, Avalanche and Morgan, you're leading the space in that. So thank you
for that. But I do think, you know, one of the things that has happened over the last five or
seven years is institutional capital has woken up to the value of copyright. If you think about
a copyright, whether it's music, whether it's a YouTube video. I mean, if you go on YouTube
right now, anyone and type in whatever search you want, you're typically not getting a video
from yesterday. You're getting it from six months ago, a year ago, five years ago. And
when you watch that video, that creator just made a fraction of a penny or whatever it is.
That is arguably the definition of an annuity. And so what I think as institutions
search for basically one thing, they all want non-correlated long duration yield bearing assets.
And as they search for those, a large part of what copyrights are are exactly that. And,
you know, they're part of a broader category called esoteric assets. And that's become
very kind of nouveau and very much in vogue the last 10 or 15 years. And I think so when you
look at kind of the landscape, some of the biggest institutions in the world have kind
of dove into this, whether it's Apollo, whether it's Blackstone, whether it's KKR,
Carlisle, the list goes on and on. And they've dove in because they there's a match, right?
A creator has the ability to roll forward some amount of revenue streams moving forward. And,
you know, anyone surprised has done on a DCF NPV, lots of different kind of calculations.
And capital can pay for a long tail annuity. And so those have come together and primarily have
come together at the high end. We've seen this across products, right? In the last hundred years
of financial products, right? It starts with one group. And then how do you bring it to the
masses? And I hate the word democratize now, because I used it 12 years ago. So I'm not going
to use it. But how do you bring it to the masses? And exactly. Okay, fine. But but that's what we're
doing. So from an institutional perspective, they love the asset class, they think and believe and
have been rewarded in understanding copyright to perform over a length of time. And that's what
they're looking for. So that is why we're so excited because the use case and the proof of
it has played out at the high end. And if we could effectively build a system to solve scale and trust,
then we believe we could bring that to every single creator. And that's not a small undertaking,
but that's our vision. I was gonna say it's definitely not a small undertaking,
but I have faith in you guys. Thank you. Thank you. Well, I also think I mean, frankly,
to that end, I think, just from a builder perspective, it's when we met you, it was very
refreshing to kind of get the sense that you have experience at a network, both from like the creator
and copyright and IP side of things, as well as from the institutional capital side of things,
I think a lot of, you know, different people in the space kind of bring one or the other.
But to really kind of have that network of effectively like buy side and sell side or supply
and demand, however you want to phrase it, I think is really important in order to,
frankly, to get to market and really identify and operationalize like the product market fit
and the adoption. So that's something that, you know, I think you realize you have that
network and capability to kind of drive that forward, which is exciting for us.
Well, I appreciate that. And I did, you know, I obviously have experience in the copyright
space. And then in my last business, as you know, Morgan, but for the broader group,
I did partner with institutional capital, some of which folks I named on this call some other folks
to actually allow small businesses in that case to open up their balance sheets to access capital.
So it is an area I know, and it candidly, it's an area that we have built for. So when we started
thinking about trips, one of the things we said obviously was how do we bring value to the
creators? So if you will, the supply side. But the other thing we did was how do we architect
a system that would be appealing to the demand side? And I think that is incredibly important
as you start architecting how, you know, what we hope to be the financialization of IP ecosystem.
And so we put ourselves in their seats. We went to candidly, we went to talk to a lot of folks
around that as well, understanding why that was important to them, how it was important,
what was important. And we went out to solve that specifically. And I hope we've done that.
Yeah, I mean, I think I think for me, it will be very exciting to kind of see your I mean,
I know, well, maybe without giving anything away. I know you guys have invented or there's
been a lot of how many TCIs have been invented so far on the platform?
Well, we haven't released it. But oh, sorry, a lot. That's okay. Yeah, fair amount. We're
a fair amount. We should be releasing it soon with the first liquidity announcement. But yes,
we are we are happy with the uptick in traction in the first 90 days.
So there's some awesome for everyone. But no, I'm excited to correct to follow your guys journey,
whether it's kind of the first TCI has been to the first kind of capital liquidity and kind of going
forward from there. And as you guys kind of look ahead, I know again, we you guys are starting
with YouTube, what are kind of some of the other channels that you want to be expanding to?
What are those that you feel like from a web to perspective are important to integrate with?
Like, what are what are the future plans around liquidity? Let's talk a little bit about
kind of next steps and future plans. Absolutely. And I think I'm gonna laugh because Morgan,
you know me too well, I'm gonna say we are we're obviously incredibly focused on executing right
now, right? I think YouTube is our first use case. And we're thrilled with the uptick so far. And
we're going to kind of continue bringing value there. But to your point, obviously, we're
thinking ahead. And we're thinking about, again, circling back to how do we move the needle on
both, both kind of long term visions. On the creator side, clearly extending to other platforms
is important. Whether we make the choice to extend in and around long form to Patreon or
Twitch, or what have you, or whether we branch out to short form. TikTok, Instagram is is honestly
TBD. But but understanding that I truly genuinely believe IP is having its moment right now. And
and it is clearly going to be the central focal point about how we are going to consume
content in the next 20 years. And I think, however, we can aid creators and helping them
navigate what that is going to look like is crucial. And part of that candidly is opening up to new
platforms. I think on the liquidity side, it's equally interesting, it is not a one size fits all
we have one type of access to capital offering today, we have obviously visions around expanding
that. And whether it's type of capital that are access, dare I say, you know, into DeFi, and we've
had some really interesting conversations with some of the protocols that I'm sure people would know.
And I think allowing for creators to control their destiny. And if you think about how we've built
this, and it's incredibly important, it is always at the creator's control, they can control,
they always retain creative control, they have the ability to take a la carte offerings. And so,
you know, I think bringing capital in each of those different areas where they may want to take
different types and styles of capital is something that is definitely on our radar. And I think
finally, just, you know, kind of bringing those two together in a way to move creators from
unbanked to banked, to allow them access to traditional financial products, to allow them
access to all the other things out there, I think is part of the longer term vision.
So yes, we will move to other platforms. Yes, we will bring in other liquidity.
Hopefully, as we kind of build out and become, you know, the dominant player,
dare I say, on the YouTube side. And so when we look five years out, which in crypto years is like
500 years. What do you feel like is the kind of IP landscape, as we know it, especially, and I'm
going to say it again, with the kind of introduction, integration and adoption of AI? What do you feel
like that looks like? And how do you think kind of trips would would fit into that landscape?
Yeah, so I'll start with the first and I may try not to wax to poetic here. But I do think there is
this kind of and I've written about this a little bit. There are these three pillars that really will
define success and its authentication protection of rights and capital. And I think on the first two,
you know, a lot of this is not necessarily the most popular view in the world right now,
but I am a firm believer that AI is infringing on the world's IP. I think that that from this,
there will be monetization schemas that come from it that I do believe that original rights
holders have rights and they will get paid for their use of derivative rights and their use of
their copyrights in future generative content. Clearly, you know, there are folks that agree
with me, right? The New York Times, Universal Music, some of the biggest companies in the world
have taken a stance that they haven't given the consent needed to generate future derivative rights
content from things they own. I'm a firm believer in that. And what I'm also a believer in is it
shouldn't just be limited to the New York Times and Universal Music. Every creator should have
the ability to protect what they make. Period. Full stop. And so I do believe over the next five years,
this is the line in the sand. You're seeing it play out in the legal cases. You're seeing it
playing out on socials. You're seeing it play out in a host of different ways. We've clearly
picked the side and we'll see how that shapes up, but it's going to be a fascinating next few
years as IP moves front and center in everything and anything we do. By the way, not just in the
US, but globally. And so that to me is everything. And how we kind of play a role in that, where we
fit in, how we open up access to capital to creators is kind of, you know, what the next
five years look like. And I can't tell, I'm like incredibly excited because I think for the first
time, like intellectual property is rolling off the lips of everyone. And I think it is long overdue.
Yeah, it's very timely. It's very topical. And I think it will only kind of continue to do
to be so. So I feel like you guys are really kind of well positioned to take advantage.
I would be remiss if we didn't talk about kind of the technical components underpinning trips.
Obviously you guys are building on Avalanche. For those who might not know, you guys decided
to build on a subnet, notably an evergreen subnet. Talk to us a little bit about why you feel
like, well, Avalanche and specifically the subnet capabilities were fit for purpose for trips.
I know you're not the CTO, but what kind of got you excited about the technical components?
In terms of enabling the platform from a business perspective, talk to us a little bit about that.
Yeah. And let me start with, and this is not, I've said this before in one-on-ones and multiples,
I think one of the things that Morgan, you know this, that very much attracted us to Avalanche,
especially the subnet product was twofold. One was the institutional ethos that Avalanche has,
full stop. We're big buyers in institutional capital, tipping their toes in and starting to
actually drive adoption of various tokenized products. You're obviously seeing it all in the
news and BlackRock's announcements and what have you. But I do think from day one, when we had
the chance to meet you and the team, that institutional ethos was very aligned with
where we're headed. And so I think that's important even outside technologically.
I think from a tech standpoint, what was really important for us, especially out of the gate,
and we'll be a part of whatever we do moving forward, is operating on a permissioned,
quote, unquote, private subnet or sidechain. And in this case, subnet product is,
in my opinion, the market leader and offered us the ability to do certain things,
especially when you talk about institutional liquidity. Bringing institutional capital in
is not a small undertaking, as you know, Morgan, and your team knows running point on a lot of
the great things you've done in the last six months or announced in the last six months.
I think starting on the evergreen subnet was clear and away the right decision, full stop.
I think as we move forward, we will think about what parts of our protocol we expose on
the main avalanche versus keeping on a subnet. But I do think the ability to operate in a
permissioned environment with institutional capital was incredibly important. And
for me, there was no other decision to make. I know in terms of that ultimate hybrid approach,
the RE protocol team on the spaces as well, I think they were taking a very similar approach as you.
So we are seeing a lot more teams that have particular requirements and use cases to keep
some data private, others public and permissionless, really leveraging this hybrid structure,
which I feel like you ultimately alluded to in terms of your go forward plan. So it's something
that is exciting to see start happening in multiple different projects. So it's
cool that you guys are already thinking about that.
Love that. And we're totally aligned. We believe that we will be hybrid and we think that certain
things should be totally open and other things will need to operate in a permissioned environment.
And I think that's good for the ecosystem because it will bring more and more people in
to allow all of us to realize the fruition of our efforts.
Yeah. And I think we were like, obviously, transparency is a huge proponent or
factor in the context of public permissionless chains. But at the same time, you're talking
about bringing institutional levels of capital on chain. There's a lot of concerns that they're
raising around transaction privacy or balance privacy. And all of that stuff is what they have
and what they're used to, and frankly, in some cases, like legally bound to in the traditional
Web2 world. So being able to kind of bring that same capability on chain, but leveraging
all the same benefits of interoperable blockchains, I think, is proving really compelling for
institutional capital overall. I couldn't agree more. And I think
mirrors and parallels the same thing with creators. They're in the Web2 world. We have to
migrate them over in a way that makes them comfortable. And I think having had, and I
know you have two more in multiple conversations with institutions, this to me is the right
approach. They will most likely get to a fully open system at some point, or maybe they won't.
But this is the way in. And I think we are all kind of working in that way. So I couldn't
agree more not to kind of belabor the point. And I do want to take some questions from the
audience before we do. Just for those that would consider themselves creators that are listening in,
talk to us about the call to action in terms of if they're interested in learning more about
trips or want to potentially test out the platform, where do they go? Do they come to you? Is there
a website? Tell us what are next steps in terms of learning more and engaging more closely with
trips. You know what? We want to talk to any and all creators. First and foremost, thank you
everyone for the time. Thank you, obviously, Morgan. I know we're going to take some questions.
But anyone can reach us at TripsIP.io. TripsIP.io. If you're a YouTube creator and you want to sign
up, click sign up. Three easy clicks. And the power of the platform is yours. If you are not...