waiting for tests to heat up his coffee and then we're gonna start.
Thank you. All right. I'm requested.
You'll test. - Eat up. - Oh great. Drink a little bit of pre workout. It's been my coffee lately.
Well, my work out is typing on the blockchain. So does that count as a workout? I might have fingers. There are.
Yeah, you have the death grip. Yeah, I could I could I could take a nut off a bolt that's been arrested on there for 10 years. Well, it's good for holding your hive to this bear market. That's for sure.
Yeah, it's interesting. You know what I've been doing with your D-Headens account and the time frame of the information we're putting up was the last bear market and it's just very interesting.
interesting to a lot of what you were doing was video so I didn't watch them but a lot of what you were talking about it's real interesting because it's like I say but damn things have changed so much in five years but then it's
same time you sit there and say damn nothing's changed in five years. Yeah, it's pretty funny. Yeah, I've probably sent a lot of safe things up and saying to spare market. It's always doom and gloom. It's so crazy when the bull markets hear people think
it's never going to end and then when the bear market here everyone's all as dead packed up so it's the same sentiment all the ways around it's pretty funny to watch though when you've been through a few yeah I'm just going to hypothesize you're not going to be talking about ICOs like you did five years ago
No. When you get in, everything is shiny and new. And then as you start to evolve your understanding, you should get to a place where...
You can sort of get into a project that has some legs, but I also figured out that all of these ICOs, all of these projects trying to be built, they're trying to be built on
a censored layer. So it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, let's take a step back before we build all the shiny things. Let's find a base layer that can't be censored. And this takes time to understand and appreciate. It's just the ones that
Learn it, but then choose to ignore it to capitalize on profit. That's the problem with this bear market or this last bull market because there's a lot of people who've been in the market or the encrypt a long enough to understand what's going on.
Still, you still see the same focus on the applications and not the censorship of the base layer. It's like focusing on the windows before you have a foundation for the house to be built.
Yeah, I agree with you wholeheartedly and it's interesting to go back and see what was being talked about and of course there's the Bitcoin which is still the big bear in the room these days or big elephant in the room, the big player.
But a lot of the other stuff has drifted by the wayside. Yeah, most of it was shit, but there was also stuff with a lot of promise, but did not work out. EOS being an example of that. And now as we fast forward,
forward to today and what you talk about with censorship resistance and what I talk about with money and what we're going to cover some year. It's very interesting because it's like all roads lead back to hive in my opinion and I believe in your opinion because of exactly what you're talking about
At that base layer, we not only have a lot of the pillars in place, but we're also seeing a lot of the infrastructure, not only base layer infrastructure, but layer 2 infrastructure built with the mindset of decentralization, distribution,
censorship resistance, sovereignty over your wallet, your account, your money. And where do you find that? And it's, I just follow your co-tales because I know you've run out there into the wall looking for it and you haven't found it and you come right back and you say, "It's on high."
It's really not anywhere else. There might be a few corners of this ecosystem planet or of the crypto currency planet you combined it in. But you did. And to me that carries a lot of weight because now when we look at where we stand with high fit to be kidding of 2023.
versus where we were at the beginning of 2022, not only with the censorship, but more importantly with high back dollar, with high power, with high, and the sovereign of
money is I think and now that we have Elon with the everything app and Twitter and he's going to incorporate payments and I believe he's going to make that a full-blown financial network. But as I said a number of times, a benevolent
a Dictator is still a Dictator. Account ownership is a account ownership and non-account ownership is non-account ownership and Twitter is centralized. You don't own your account. You don't own your data and you're not going to own your money on there.
Yeah, you're just a renter. The thing about life is when you realize this the older you get, it'll give you exactly what you'll put up with. And if you put up with a little bit of censorship, that's what you're going to get. And eventually a little bit turns into a lot because it hacks away, hacks away, waves at the beach. And the interesting thing about
about Hive was the last you know you could call it bear market. The price is really low, the founder is pretty much non-existent. The morale was if the morale was going to be low, as low as it possibly could have gotten. Just literally you know just stopping the community into the ground and somebody came in and gave us
and out gave us something like, well, you know, you can accept this. This is an easier way out. And he said, no, you know, we're not going to put up with that. So it's, it's just about looking around at the projects and seeing what the community puts up with during hard times. Do they give in a little bit, you know, do they get a little bit of weaker? Do they compromise?
And we've seen that very clearly with the theory. I saw one, somebody a lot of followers, he has a lot of respect and he made a prediction saying he thinks that the censorship on theory will peak out of about 80%. And you've got lots of likes and all that and I'm thinking, that's unacceptable.
You're saying that you're a good thing. You look around and I see it creeping into Bitcoin as well, the laziness with the miners, sailor trying to organize miners and make jurisdictions. That's the last thing you want. That makes them easier to control.
A lot of slippery slopes out there people have to realize that the game here is to create something that no one can control. Truly you can say you can make words and make it sound fancy but if you're not actually doing that in practice there are people out there who studied this enough to call you out. You know yeah five years ago
when I quit YouTube, I actually quit YouTube because of I was in a fan of Alex Jones, but I remember when they all, you know, he got banned on like every platform. I was like, this is getting creepy. My first censorship was on Cora about weight loss. People don't understand like how deep the censorship gets. It gets to the point where they, they, they will
So some of the top writers on court, they don't talk about what things that they want to talk about. So it literally steers the narrative. It molds people in the way they think and walls what they can and can't talk about subconsciously. And I thought this was very strange behavior. I was new to online. I wasn't someone who's online all the time. I just kind of came out of nowhere.
And I experienced it very well. I left Korra. Same thing happened on YouTube. I left YouTube about four or five years ago. And as you start to progress, you have to say, "Okay, how do you actually get this in a practical way?" It's fine to say it. It's fine to trust other people. It's like, "Oh, you know, someone else would do it, and you're going to get censorship." Or you can#
people do. It's pretty crazy. People, you know, they just don't take the critical thought process of how to make this in a practical way. We're high. That's all we do because we've been forced to because there's no person that we can just rely on. We need, you know, the people are good at certain things, but not everything. And you need a
complete package to get this through. So we're saying, you know, this is the speak network, the the layer to smart contracts, the stake weighted voting, the way we've done things to make it a data availability layer, which is what all blockchains basically strive to be an immutable place to store transactions in order that you can reference from.
We've just said, "Hey, this is what we believe. We're not paid by anybody so we can do what the hell we want. There's no narrative." I think a lot of these chains, and I've gotten a lot more outspoken lately because I've become more involved in
and what I'm seeing. And it seems like most people who are layer one that raise money want to have the high fee so they can get on the exchanges, they can get in bed with the centralized infrastructure so they can have the high market cap with the market makers. And it's just a money game to them and they were never ever even
thinking about censorship resistance ever they could care less about that. And then they're going to slap on the risk from the SEC handed over to the powers at B and that's what we have. That's exactly what's happening.
So yeah, I mean, I don't know, it's weird. It's very strange. I think there's so few protocols out there that this is. It's scary really because I have a lot of faith in hive, but you know, I wish there was more, not a hive, Maxi. I wish there was other protocols that did other things that were.
You could rely on if things went up in smoke but it seems like we just have a flicker of a flame here People can rely on Bitcoin. Sure you have your store of value, but you know how I feel in 50 years and 50 years matters right you have to solve problems in 50 years out now today You don't wait 50 years for the problem to be at your door and say up. Well, sorry kids
You know, you're kind of screwed because we dropped the ball there. And obviously can't build applications on Bitcoin. You can't build the money system that we're going to be talking about on Bitcoin. Not in the way that it can be. You can utilize Bitcoin as a layer, but it's going to need a censorship resistant micro payment, which lightning network is not
It's censorship resistant. In fact, yeah, sure you and I can open up a channel, but what's going to happen? The banks are going to come in. They're going to offer no fees. We can't compete. So it's like, sure, I can send you money, but I can't do any kind of e-commerce. I can't do anything because all the masses are going to flock in the
liquidity, the bigger to get, there's no laws here. So monopolies will form and essentialize. There's no parameters to stop these monopolies from forming. Same issue with proof of stake mining, or staking, and proof of work mining. No parameters to stop monopolies. So here we are with hive, you know, elimination
of the middle infrastructure. We don't need any middle people to run our things. It's kind of left us out in the wild because we have to build all of this from the ground up. Where's fucking open sea? Where's coin base? Where are all these people who talk about being humanitarian care about crypto and all these things? They don't baddie at us because they can't make
money off of this. That's simple. I last time I checked Coinbase's giant ETH Staker, right? They're making bank off of that. Of course they want Ethereum to have a high market cap. They make money off of Ethereum. They can't do that with Hive. They're going to power up user funds for three months and get complaints when the users can't withdraw. There's no business model for them to exploit.
Yeah, well, we see it from a mile away and we'll say, well, whatever you're trying to do, you're not going to do. By the way, as an FYI, talk about synchronicity, you posted about leaving Coral August 15, 2018.
So that's that's when your core adventure ended. Yeah, that's crazy. This is an FYI. But what you were saying is I think this it's so important to understand the structure of things. And what we have is we have blockchain.
And I'm going to use the term application not as in YouTube or website. I'm going to use application as in use case or utility. And just like the first application of the internet widespread application was email. Well, I guess you could say porn, then email. The first use case of
of a blockchain was obviously finance money and we see that with like you said Bitcoin and with Bitcoin it's a ledger it's a distributed ledger technology that's what's a touchy was able to bring the market solve the double spend engage in finance sovereignty your keys your code
the second application I see in social media and this came about because of steam and it's involved into hive and like you said you can't do that with Bitcoin because Bitcoin you really can't build these applications it's it's a lecture like a bank lecture it's not a decentralized
data base of immutable text. It's just a decentralized database of transactions that the miners validate and put in the blocks. Then we have whatever the third, fourth, fifth are going to be. You could say maybe Governing, you could start to deal with all
ownership and music and copyright and and all that stuff and who knows where all of this stuff's gonna go But what I would do Dan is I put all of that under the umbrella of sovereignty, you know, whether it's sovereignty of My wallet and my money whether it's sovereignty over my account
and you can't touch what I write, you can't touch the video I put up, you can't touch the audio I put up, you can't stop me from saying what I want to say, freedom of speech, and you have this based upon what you were saying and then we go back to the structure. If you go below those application levels
the finance, the social media, the whatever, you get to the censorship resistance, but you've got to find that at the base layer. If you don't have that in the base layer, all that's built on top is not that there is no sovereignty because ultimately somebody could say, "I want your money. I don't like what you're saying. I'm going to
your account, I'm going to take down your video, I'm going to do whatever and there's nothing you can do because 80% censorship is 100% censorship. If you have 80%, what's the difference between
1% and 80% that can still stop you. Yeah, I'm getting a little bit of back voice. For me? Yeah. Was that better? Is this better? No, I can hear my speak like an echo.
You can hear an echo? Yeah, I can hear an echo.
Can I still hear it? Nope, it's gone. Yeah, something coming through your speakers.
That better. I'm technology. Yo, testing. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's still there. Do you have a headset on? No, I don't have a headset on. Let me try this. Let me log out and I'll come back in. All right.
So just talk to the audience off the top of your head. Yeah. Yeah, trying to find censorship resistance.
The reason is difficult to find censorship resistance is basically there's no money in it. It takes a community. Before Hive, we had Steam which was obviously centralized. So they are pretty much everything coin
voting that we've ever seen starts off in some form of pre-minor ICO or if it doesn't, it doesn't get enough critical distribution because they had a distribution issue where only minors got
New coins. The thing that really helped.
Inject a distribution for high was the incentivized stakeholder distribution, which we've inherited from the steam era.
You're back. See if, uh, see if he could test. Is that any better? Testing, testing. Not like the still on my self. I think I just got to meet when I talk because, uh,
I'm getting the background noise from your end. I don't hear anything in terms of noise.
It's weird because when I talk I can hear like an echo. Do you hear an echo when I talk?
No. Oh, it's only when I talk. Okay. Well, I'll be muted then while you talk.
So we inherited the distribution from steam or steam. Steam it played a large role in that because they had the ninja mind so they basically gave a delegation out to people and people were pretty much up voting, distributing coin farm while
and I believe Hive has the best distribution, at least in the most areas, in the most countries. And I could definitely argue that it's maybe aside from Bitcoin, just because of Bitcoin's liquidity.
has changed enough lives. It's what you do when you have boots on the ground and people always say every person on high is a doubt because they get to distribute where the new inflation goes.
And since stake vote is staquated voting, coin voting, the only thing that matters is the distribution. You can have thousands of nodes. One person has a centralizing vote, none of that matters.
So as we're high, I really got it right. I feel like right now to try to start over, to try to create censorship resistance from nothing is very difficult. It's like starting without the tools to make a fire as opposed to already having a fire going. That's the way I look at it.
Because censorship resistance is not to just one protocol.
It grows. If you want to spread fire, you throw more wood. You don't create another fire from scratch, 100 yards away. So you can look at hive and you say, look, I hate this technology. It's stupid. But they have a great distribution.
So I'm going to do some air drop to the community knowing there's no pre-mind, knowing that there's not going to be some founder's stake. And then it's going to be distributed. And then I'm going to open source my technology and build on top of it.
And that, a perfect example of this, the speak network. What if we would have said, hey, we're just going to leave and create our own censorship resistance from scratch and not give five any coins, and we're just going to do our little pre-mindsetter such.
very difficult if not impossible to get censorship resistant in that case. But what we did was we saw the fire, we just came through a log on it.
What does that mean? Well, we built an open source layer, dropped it one for one in a very fair way. No one got any more than anyone else in terms of pre-mind or ninja mind, anything like that. It was all fair drop for hibars.
We had 60, 70 nodes run in infrastructure. We have people who give a damn about the network.
We didn't make that. We just spread that. That's how you treat censorship resistance. You don't even have to like the technology. It's a data availability layer. Like there's nothing to hate or like. It's either useful for you or not. It's useful.
10 validators. It's not how it works. These are people who have to voluntarily come to you and it's best if they're in different locations. You don't want them all in the same location. So this is a worldwide thing. You have to incentivize these people by being open
source, spreading the value so they actually have a natural incentive to get involved. And then they're double incentivized because they also have hive. So it's helping hive. Now they have a piece of what they're going to be building on. It's all open source distributed.
That's the method. That's how you build on top of censorship resistance. Whereas so many people are trying to still in this day and age. I swear, 2023, we're going to have another Tara or another whatever layer one, Salana, whatever layer one, these VCs can
magically and market and make money off of we're gonna have another one and People are gonna buy it and it's got a billion dollar market cap It's gonna be a big fat joke you get to keep recycling layer ones like it's like they're clothing It's the more the longer you get in the crypto it becomes very
painful nice like I can understand someone new but to see the same cycle over and over and over again and they always get greedier it's like you know the thereiam it was like what um they did the 80% um
But then you had someone like Cardano had like 10-15% forget what it is. And then you had to EOS was like 10%. And they're like, "Oh, maybe we'll get a fairway." And then you have these 100% pretty much.
So they're just coming out to the audacity to 90% plus is choking the market dropping 10% on a centralized exchange using a market maker to pump that up while they slowly bleed out the back end usually called a hack.
Yeah, I mean, in high just the opposite, right? We've been doing nothing but becoming more censorship resistant. Oh, how do we store video in a decentralized way? How do we scale the layer one so everyone's not storing their LOL comments on an immutable chain where they can get censorship resistance but not the immutability?
Which most people want I'd say 95% of people if you were to ask them that want the ability to delete a Post if they could only them not someone else to big difference That's why it's censorship resistant because you choose not Twitter not anyone else now you post it on high if you don't get the choice anymore. It's there. It's done
So it's, oh, 2023 is going to be the separation year. We're going to start to see
People building on censorship resistant understanding what it is, they might still overlook hive. There's a reason for it. We don't have to centralize markets. We're not on those US exchanges. You know, these VCs can't get a pre-mind deal.
You know we don't get any love there but people you know what what what are we seeing we see nostrils we see the web Jack Dorsey with five people started to understand least the basics but they're going the wrong way with no incentives. I think this year is the year people understand yeah you need incentives.
I would agree with you. I think we are certainly at a turning point. And from my perspective, and I'll be interested to see what yours is, since you and I really don't talk on this too much, I
maintain, if you will, theorize that the medium of exchange for cryptocurrency is stablecoins. And I think all the other cryptocurrencies, all the other fungible tokens will leave NFTs aside, but all the other fungible tokens
I don't want to say the S word in case Gensers listening, but basically they operate as whatever the ecosystem is worth that should be reflected in the value of the token. Now we know markets are markets and they do in saying things, but that's my
That's the mental framework I approach it with. And one of the reasons why I think hive stands out, in addition, everything you just said, is the fact that we have both at the base layer, both are undecenteralized
notes, you have the medium of exchange in high back dollar, you have the value capture in hive, which, oh by the way, is also an access token because it requires hive state, i.e. high power, to have
access to the ecosystem. So now you have your backing agent, if you will, your hive, which bats HBD, where the utility actually drives value to the token, to the value capture token to hive, because the more
more activity that takes place on the blockchain, the more resource credits that are going to be required. And I don't see that out there anywhere else. And when people talk about, let's say, the stablecoin market, we won't even go into what you just said, which probably destroys 90% of them right off the bat.
your USDC is not safe because they can lock your wallet, whether it's circle lock in your wallet or the Ethereum node is locked in the wallet, it doesn't matter either way you're locked. We saw BSC's eGIS said, "Well, stop the chain and let's fix this."
time you have any of that activity being done, you know, you're back in the world where the commercial banks can freeze your check-in account because they decide to freeze your check-in account. And you know, when we start to look at things from a monetary perspective and we start to look at the
of this industry in terms of sovereignty, sovereign money, the ability to engage in commerce, the ability to engage in finance, the ability to build out these financial systems, the social media systems, the integration which I believe is fully coming.
I believe that Elon's going to do it on Twitter, which is Web 2.0, but the integration of finance and social media. They go hand in hand these days. We're going to see it on Twitter. We already have it on Hive, but everybody overlooks the monetary component and sitting here saying, "Well, wait a second."
What is the one monetary network out there that's out of the reach of any central bank, any government? It's a Euro dollar system. And like how I've, that was kind of just, that was the banks that got together, but they really didn't get together because starting in the 1950s, they just
started doing their own thing to produce their own money and a couple banks got together and they did bilateral agreements and all this stuff and it just grew over time where it's central, it's not even centralized, it's decentralized but it's closed because you've got to be a bank or a major financial institution.
to be in this. But there is the model. The decentralized monetary system is right there. It's there for us to see a copy. And that's basically what blockchain and cryptocurrency and Hive can do because we have the decentralized base layer. We have the two types of crypto
that I think the medium of exchange and the value capture built at the base layer. Then we can build all the layer two tokens we want and breakaway communities and all that other stuff. And yes, some of them may be decentralized, some of them may not be. That is at the second layer. So that really doesn't matter.
You can opt in if you want, you can opt out if you want. But at that base layer, we have that covered. And do you agree with that assessment of how I frame the tokens? And do you see that as another aspect that just takes high and sets it apart from everything else?
Yeah, it's a very good assessment. When you're talking about the closed system, you're saying, yeah, it's decentralized because it's not just one, you have these different entities that have their own interests. So it's sort of like, you know, a bunch of strong men have
to come to an agreement where they have to all compromise a little to get a better deal. So there's some decentralization in that aspect but it's closed obviously it's you got to be a part of the club to be in. When we're trying to do it from an open stand
point, you have to first have a base layer that has some sort of value. And the crazy thing with this blockchain technology is we've been able to create something called censorship resistance in the digital realm, which has never happened. You don't have it.
Really don't have censorship resistance in any part of your life. Anyone big and strong enough can come take it except now. If you have the number, if you have the words in your head, you're strong enough willed, no one can take that from you. It's the first time ever we've had something like that.
We've come together and we've sort of magically created this invisible value called censorship resistance. It takes an entire community to do. We all have to compromise, right? I want to feature too bad didn't get consensus.
Oh, I want to do it this way. Well, too bad you got to come to an agreement with everybody. So everyone has to compromise. But at the end, we get something called censorship resistance, which is better than nothing. So that's the deal. Now that we have this value floating around,
We can harness it into a stable coin or a stable form of value, anything we choose that comes to consensus on. So you have to have that. That's the chicken. You have to have the censorship resistance, which needs a community. It can't be forced. Everyone hears because they hear voluntarily. No one's being paid by a central
to be here in any way. Once you have that, which is serendipity, it's lucky, knock on wood that you have it, be thankful that you have any of it. It doesn't matter how small it is, you take that because no amount of money, high market cap marketing can scare it away or force it. So you can say, "Oh, we have a little quiddity.
too small. What does it matter? You don't have censorship resistance. You're not even on the boat. Your opinion is irrelevant on this topic. I'd rather take the small fire than a rock because a rock's not going to heat me up. So you can keep playing with the censorship over there. What we have, what we're focusing on, short, small, but we know the fire can grow if it's harnessed right.
And we have stable form of value called HVD, which I think is the only censorship resistant stable coin in existence. How can I say that? How do I have the audacity to say that? Well, we've been attacked. Someone tried to take over. They tried to censor us and they couldn't.
So I'm not just speaking gibberish. I'm not saying, you know, I have a practical history that we've been through. I was on the front lines with a lot of many, you know, many other people and we've lived it and we survived it. So we understand that, hey, if someone wanted to censor my HBD transaction, come and get it. Come try it.
other blockchains don't have that same mentality because they can't. If the walk on egg shells play nice, play with the regulators, 80% compliant is okay to them. And that's usually the best case scenario, right? The rest of them are, you know, got Salano or whatever
or even in worship. So yeah, you have censorship resistance, harness that as a bandwidth token, tie it to governance, which is valuable. Now you have something useful you can
hardest into a stable coin happens to be fast and fearless. Those are features built on top of the censorship resistance that make it desirable. But CBDs are coming, you know, banks are going to have their own digital currencies. They're going to be accepted everywhere. They're going to be super easy.
Fast, fearless people are going to love it. It's going to be way better in PayPal. They're going to be tied to your Twitters. They're going to be tied to every social media. All these things, all the games, going to be so everyone's going to love it. It's going to be so much easier, so much more convenient, highly, highly centralized, very dangerous.
The one thing, we're not competing versus that. We can't compete versus that. It's the thing. When I first came up, when I realized how to actually create wealth, I realized
I could charge for the knowledge I have and then I'm competing versus everyone, or I can give it away and get so good and so knowledgeable that people desire my knowledge to the point where they're eventually going to want to pay for my time.
So we get into a point where it's going to be boom or bust. We can't compete versus that sort of mentality. So what are we going to do? We have to make it to where communities can
create their own value and they can't be attacked. Twitter is not going to allow you to make your own coin without KYC, without pushing the buttons, without having every lever in their control because you're a money transmitter. People are playing with these protocols
like it's a joke. Oh, I have a stable coin. I owe 90% of the staking voting rights. Ha, ha, ha. I'm cute. Say, well, what if a terrorist uses that? What if somebody bad uses that? It's no longer a game. Now you're in prison or now you're in some very scary company.
people think it's a joke because it's new. Give this a couple more years and the bad guys you're going to have to start worrying about. People think, "Oh, I have to worry about the SEC or the government." They say, "Okay, wait till some fucking people who you really don't want knock on our door coming because it's very important to have a transfer of
value transfer wealth. We haven't seen this happen, but it's going to happen. These bad people are going to start creating their own or hijacking others because they're like, "Hey, if it's going to be so much centralized, it's going to be centralized under our control." People have no idea what they're playing with. They think it's a joke, they think it's cute. You have to protect yourself.
What does that mean? Well, if you come after any hiver, no one can pull the lever. You can't control the network that way.
And if any protocol has that issue, has that centralized point of failure, it is going to fail 100% no doubt. So yeah, HBDA, I believe is the only censorship resistance stable, I'll go coin. It's very small. You can say it's a liquid. You can always convert it to high, which is a little bit more liquid.
But you don't build things to get liquid. You don't build sensitive resistance that way. You have to take the long route. There's no shortcuts. First, you have sensitive resistance and then it's a slow, painful, non-grind to get that liquidity, to get that adoption because you don't have any centralized entity pulling you.
seeing this happen in real time. How did how did hive do it? Very smart. Build some wells and Ghana, host some events in Venezuela. Do things that no one else is doing. And what does that mean? We're on local news stations. People are thankful for the protocol. What happens when people are thankful for the protocol? They want to support it. They want them to see it grow. They want to help it in any way they can.
Why do any protocols have any value because humans there's not humans that care about it So hive is doing everything correct everything that you should be doing and we're seeing it play out in real time You get out of the box thinking right if you're trapped into a hole and you say well, I can't climb you'll figure something out maybe you you start digging
on one side and putting dirt up and making stairs. Like if you're not in the hole, you're never going to think that though. It's blind to you 100%. But when you're in the hole like we've been, we understand all the little nooks and crannies and things you can do incentivize stakeholder distribution.
clever, building, helping people, you know, why it's counterintuitive. People think, oh, you should be, you know, putting that money to go on centralized exchanges and buying, you know, TV ads. It's like, no, we're going to give it all away because that's the way you get true wealth because if you, what you're
giving away has any value it's going to come back 10x and what happens we didn't have to pay for the to go viral and Ghana we didn't have to pay to go viral in Venezuela and get all those new stations and that's the way you do it. So it's just about merchant adoption for the HBD the more we get the more games you build around it
So more, these games don't have owners. Ragnarok is an example of this. This is something you can't do on Web 3 or Web 2.5. You can't do honorless games in a centralized way.
So that's the new battle. It's the battle is, okay, forfeit. We're not going, you know, we can't, their convenience monsters way too much. We're never, ever going to be more convenient than a bank digital currency, ever. Never tied right to your Twitter account. You're joking. You're out of your mind. Super convenient. But we can do things that they can't.
we should focus on that tokenized communities. It's always been that. You've been saying that for years, you know, since I've joined way back in the day, that's something that no one can compete with in a centralized way. And once we get there, you know, sure, use your bank digital currency. You're never going to
people are always going to use that. It's not about eliminating that. That's dumb. That's impossible. It's going to be here. It's always going to be here. It's about at least giving an alternative. So if someone is censored, hey, you know, having an alternative to fall back on it, you don't have an alternative. That's a scary world. And it's like being in a relationship where the person knows no matter what#
Well, that's not a good position to be in. And it doesn't matter how nice or benevolent they are, everyone's human at the end of the day. And they have to understand that there has to be an alternative that just has to be.
Let me ask you a question, Dan. Because I think this can frame this whole idea of money in a bit of a different way.
There's a payment processor basically.
Visa is nothing more than a glorified computer network. If you think about that's all they are. People call them credit card company payment process or in their right they're not not exactly wrong about it but Visa the reach of Visa is because there are
and they can access merchants all over the world and deliver the information in nanoseconds and milliseconds to all these people all over the world and basically take their database of information and so you Dan you go swipe
your credit card wherever you do it in the world and within a few seconds it's able to go into the visa database and say yes Dan can have this purchase or no Dan can't have this purchase. And if we understand that and we understand that the monetary system
is really nothing more than a ledger accounting and a communication network, which communication networks in this era means computer network, computer systems.
That's exactly what blockchain is. Blockchain is a communication system and it's a ledger.
Hive is not only decentralized, Hive also technologically is one of the most powerful, if not the most powerful blockchain out there when you think about. You look at the three-second blockchain. You look at the one-second
or millisecond one block your reversibility which means on average we have reversible blocks I think block trades said at like 1.5 or 1.6 seconds you look at a network that is
You have to make an investment to use the network. Yes, you have to get or somebody has to get high power. They have to take the coin, stake it. So somebody needs to make that investment. So he or she or others can engage in the network.
With resource delegation, you don't have to even do it yourself. Somebody else can make the investment on your behalf, i.e. an application, and allow you to transact. When we look at that infrastructure,
structure. And when we sit here and say, I challenge anybody to find in Web 3 a more powerful monetary system than I have asked.
which by the way, this is a more powerful monetary system than Visa than the banking system because what happens with those is they are ledgers built upon ledgers tied into other ledgers because everybody's running their own ledger and they're trying to interact with
with everybody. And then they have the big ledger gatekeepers, JP Morgan, Chase, Bank of America, Visa, you know, the Federal Reserve, the BIS, all these entities are keeping all these different ledgers of money. And they're
All gatekeepers and they all like you said have not only the ability to censor, but they have the ability to influence. They have the ability to set policy. They have the ability, I don't say they really have the ability to fix or improve anything because I don't think they fix or improve anything, but they have the ability to screw things
up and we see that and I take exception with Powell and the Fed a lot because I see them screwing things up. So when we factor all that together and you want to sit here and say well what is high, what is high I have to offer to me if we look at the technology you're sitting there saying this is one of the most
powerful monetary systems on the planet right now. And then we incorporate the fact of distribution. Well, how is Bitcoin distributed? You have to be a miner. That's where the brand new coins go to. They go to the miners. Then the miners have to sell them.
people after buying. I guess the miners technically can give them away, but they don't do that. They sell them into the open market. With Hive, because of the social media aspect, there's two things that come into play. We have the ability to create social media applications that not only distribute Hive,
but distribute other layer 2 tokens which people then if they so choose can swap into hive to give them all the stuff at the base layer. And all of this is tracked at the base layer in this monetary system even the layer 2 coin
that are tied to hive, I believe hive engine and some of the other things being built deluxe, they at least send custom J-Sones to the blockchain so you can at least see what is happening with the transactions at an immutable level. That's unheard of. And this is
something that I think people overlook. And then we throw in the fact of stablecoin, stable-ishcoin. We won't call it a stablecoin because it's still way too small. But a medium of exchange coin, a value capture coin, and the correlation between the two
I mean, I don't know why people are looking elsewhere.
Yeah, you're right about how hubs technically superior. There's nothing out there. You can't really get faster than your reversibility within two seconds. The immutable data store on commodity hardware makes it pretty much infinitely scalable.
because hard drives are only getting more and more and more space. Terabyte used to be a big thing, even five years ago. It's huge. Now it's not much. You got that on phones.
Same thing in 5, 10 years. So everything we've done, you know, we parameter or devalorator accounts so you have to have a minimum of 20 where most networks are run by just a handful.
Not only have more nodes, but or at least more nodes that matter. That's very important. It's kind of like when you work out, it comes to a point where it becomes dead reps. You're just moving weight, but you're done.
there's no need. You're going past the exhaustion. That's what most chains have. They have one or two that really matter and just hundreds of useless ones. So when it comes to actually useful working nodes that actually do something in consensus on the network,
We're about five times more diverse, five times more, yet we're a lot faster.
So it's pretty lopsided. This technology is going to be used this way. Shore banks can run their own blockchain, and they can even copy our tech, get to a point where they can send it fast and feel it, so whatnot.
At the end of the day, obviously, it'll be centralized, and I'll just prove that we've done it right in terms of the tech.
censorship resistance is knock on wood. It's something that we have to curate. We have it now. It tends to grow. The more you cultivate it, we've only seen that. I don't think we've grown weaker since we've forked. I think we've only gotten stronger and stronger even through this down market.
We're at a point now, stable-ish coin. More and more merchants are starting to adopt it.
I think we can definitely handle many more years of a down market because it's very cheap to run a validator at the end of the day, especially if there's less traffic than, right? So it's just time to focus
on building this layer to node system to where we can start having true defy and in a way hive is going to do it because even defy, you know, you hear, oh, well, even if you think Ethereum sense of your persistence, you think, oh, defy can just
You know, go dead weight. Doesn't need to worry about that at all. It's like, no, you still have to run your own infrastructure and you still have your own consensus mechanisms for the roles of that application.
So in a video game it might not be important, but the rules of a DeFi application are damn important. The variables, the interest involved.
So I think hive is going to be able in the spirit of things. We have a group of people. We're going to have a decentralized node system on the second layer.
Look to build DeFi applications in the same spirit.
That's when it gets very interesting because now you have real tangible world assets that are generating yield. Let's say potentially, right? I'm not, I'm not somebody who's saying what's going to happen. I'll talk of two roads.
They'll say, "Either it's not going to happen or it's going to happen." Mr. Miyagi, you know, stand in the middle of the road. Well, it could or it couldn't. Well, you don't get anywhere that way. So, in the spirit of if this was successful, then, you know, very hard to bring that down.
And those things tend to grow and grow and grow. So we have a we're at least attempting to build an alternative that's Practical because right now, but we're seeing none of its practical. There is no real defy out there. Oh, this is run on a highly censored base layer.
The applications themselves are run on pre-mines coin voting.
So, well, it's going to try. And the experience is going to be miles, miles, miles better. Fast, fearless. Yeah, you have to perform a smart
Well, we have a layer two node system that's built in a way where the application will have their own node system. So I don't have to worry about what application B or Z are doing. Because we're about what they're doing, much lower fees.
We definitely have that head start. It's just a matter of building it. We have such a superior product in that aspect that people will want to use it just because there's a next bull run, people paying what?
300 dollar fees, finance, smart chain, permission, D-Post about is, if you're going to be a quote unquote layer one smart contract system, just not smart in my opinion.
That would probably be the fastest you could achieve it. What Binance is doing. They pretty much said, "Hey, we're picking the nodes. They're going to be a small amount and we're going to make sure every one of them are awesome." Everyone has to do exactly what we say. Any update gets passed that we want.
centralization still had like fifty dollar fees at the end of the day and you call that mass adoption it's not mass adoption at all so you're looking at four five hundred dollar fees on the most technologically savvy centralized approach if you're trying to go the other route
So, um, next, you know, these bull runs, whatever, I already like using those names, but the awareness wave as it grows. I remember last time in 2017, we're like, oh, I wish Gary Vee would talk about us. And now it's like government's adopting and, you know, what the next wave is going to be, who knows.
But $500 fees, $1000 fees are going to cut it because that's what you're going to be looking at even on proof of stake on Ethereum. So just yeah, putting censorship resistance aside, which is all important. It's number one. It's the first step putting that aside just from a technical point of view. Even if we were centralized, we have a clear
cut advantage here. So it's up for us to use that. We shouldn't be resting on that. We got to, we have to understand that the awareness is going to go one way. It is going to be centralized blockchains with a strong alternative or we're just going to be smothered and there's not going to be a choice. And that's going to be a fucked up world.
Yeah, I think one of the other issues we have is because people tend to not understand money currency. They have these outdated beliefs. They don't even under
They're saying really what the monetary system is. It's kind of announced to us every single time the U.S. and its allies want a sanction. Anybody? What's the first thing they do? They threaten to kick people off the swift network.
do they do that? The Swift Network is in a settlement system. It's a messaging service. Well, that's because the monetary system is up most important communication. And so when we look at that and we look at what's built
at the base layer. Then you take on what you were describing as the framework of what you guys are constructing in Unison with disregard Fiat between the Speak Network and implementing Honeycomb technology that he's working on.
I've written so much over the past year about the high back dollar our staplish coin.
And I don't think people realize because they're in this well They have this misunderstanding of fiat and well the central bank controls the US dollar which they don't and How the US dollar is really evolved from a currency to basic
I call it a measure. It's right now it's like an ounce or a kilometer or a mile. This is how we measure stuff. You know how many dollars are in a ounce of gold, in a bitcoin, in a barrel of oil, in a house, in a tuna fish sandwich?
in a liberal future contract in an interest rate swap you have all these forms of money that have evolved and been created a lot of it by the euro dollar system and the international financial system
And they tend to gravitate all towards the US dollar. And so what you have with HBD, in my opinion, is you have a couple different factors here that could really position high very well. First off, we have an algorithm
stablecoin, which to the regulators that's awful, but to from a market needs or an economy needs perspective that is vital because we can expand the amount of HBD
without needing the amount of USD to expand, because HBD can be converted to $1 worth of five.
But there's flexibility in the amount of hive you'll get for each HPD because as the price of hive itself moves up and down in USD. The USD is the constant the amount of hive up and down can change. So unlike circle and USDC for
from circle or tether, which supposedly, we don't know if they are, because they're not audit, but supposedly each of them are backed by either US dollar cash or cash equivalent IET bills. They require the expansion of USD to
really meet the market demands, which is a problem because banks aren't lending. With Hive, we solved that problem with HBD because if we needed to create $10 trillion in HBD, we could do that. Now obviously the market cap of Hive would have to be
Astronomical, you know, it had to be about 40 trillion dollars, but the point being is it could be done the other thing and you mentioned games you mentioned some of these other things with layer two which I think is really fascinating is HBD allow
also is people especially in the Venezuelans and the Cubas and the the Nigeria's and all these other countries where they have currencies, fiat currencies that get obliterated. I mean your major currencies get obliterated against a dollar in times like these and bad economies and stuff like that.
But they have the added disadvantage of more corrupt governments, banking systems that are even less trustworthy than in the developed countries. Just outright fraud. People deposit money, they go to banking the banks.
was never deposit here and all that type of crap. At least in the U.S. they have to tell you, "Oh yeah, you deposit it, but we have to close your account because you're a terrorist." So what happens in these countries is the only protection they have would be to get into dollar-denominate
assets, but they can't go to their bank and get dollars because either A, the bank doesn't have them or B, the bank won't give it to them or C, if it is given to them, they'll get hit over the head the second they walk out of the bank. And with HBD, we can give people in those countries access to dollar-denominated assets.
Simply on the blockchain at the base layer no counter party risk because there is no single entity that is back in hvd or in control of it your only counterparty risk is the blockchain if the blockchain still running So we have that but then the flow
the next evolution, in my opinion, for the resiliency of HBD is the derivative level. The layer two, full of derivatives in the financial economy, whether you're talking just a wrap version of HBD,
which Leo Finance has done on both BSE and Polygon right now. So you can see Rapp versions on Honeycomb, you can see Rapp versions on whatever Honeycomb, whoever uses Honeycomb's Speak network,
whoever else, but then you also get into the bond, you get into all these other financial assets. And the big point here is what I don't think people realize is as assets become liquid,
They become money because they become tradable. They become transferable. So when you take an asset that suddenly is liquid and can be transferred, you now have a form of money.
And that's going back to what I was saying about the Euro Dollar System. That's what those banks and financial institutions have been doing for, you know, we guess about 70 years. They create a financial product that
Over time, a market develops with the liquidity. And so suddenly, if a bank in Sweden has to send a million dollars to a bank in Japan on behalf of a customer, instead of going to BLS, they pick up the phone and call the bank in Japan and say,
We got to send you a million dollars to go into this account at your bank. What do you want? And the Japanese banker says, "What do you have?" "Well, we got three monthly book up futures. You want them?" "Yes, that's a million dollars and three monthly book." Boom, it's transferred on the ledger, it's liquid, it's right there.
Now the Japanese banker got the million bucks. That bank just takes in and pulls out whatever the equivalent value is in yen and puts it in the customer's bank account, which you know it's just numbers on a screen so they don't even print up the yen. They just put the numbers on a screen.
And that's really what we have the capability of doing when you think about it. We have this capability of taking HBDS this foundation at this base layer, at this decentralized center, it's resistant at this layer which is penetrating many, many countries.
especially second and third world nations. And then we have on the layer two with a decentralized node system the ability to create a replica if you will for lack of a better word not only of the node system and of the censorship resistance but we have
the ability to create derivatives that end up being a defense and providing more resiliency for the high back dollar. And so when you look at that or when I look at that and I go out there and I say okay, how can you
you have this monetary elasticity in the open marketplace on a global scale when you're dealing with the USDC because that is dependent directly upon what the US commercial banks are doing. And there's a major problem with the US dollar right now.
A threat of term many may not be familiar with called trifans dilemma trifans paradox where the reserve currency ultimately the decision has to be do we look at the short term? Impact on our domestic economy versus the law
long-term impact on the global economy. And the US dollar hasn't had to have this problem because of the Euro dollar system, which since the great financial crisis has been breaking down. And that's why I see an opportunity for these stable coins, especially one like HBD, to step in and say,
We can provide the monetary elasticity on a global scale. Yes, it's going to take the price of high-visculating greatly. It's going to take the growth of the network. It's going to take a lot of different things. But that's something I don't see out there in any other realm right now. Yes, USDC could expand it, but their contingent on
the dollar theoretically, same with Tether. And if they are audited and they don't have the backing because they are claim to be asset backed tokens, then they're going to get themselves in a whole heap of trouble at some point, which I expect to happen because they're going to have to be under banking regulations. And maybe you
right, maybe the banks create their own tokens, they're already banks, and they'll just back it with whatever or they'll do whatever. But the problem is, is you're still beholden to the same entities where banks operate in their best interests, and when it's in the banks interest to land, IE, when times are good, they'll land. When it's not
to banks interest to lend i.e. when times are bad, they're not going to lend. But when does the economy need the money most? Obviously, when economic conditions are contracting, that's where you want the stimulus. And unfortunately, there's this fraud that the Fed and other central banks do with their quantitative easing, their quantitative
I mean, they're printing bank instruments that only go on the balance sheets of the depository institutions. They can't even be collateralized. So to a bank, it's absolutely of no value whatsoever. And that's really where, from a monetary perspective, I think I've
out even further because this is something realistically I see some of the infrastructure being built that's why I've watched what you guys are doing with Speak Network and what Honeycomb's doing because we have the potential to have the infrastructure I don't know how far you stand but after talking to Matt the last couple weeks it sounds like
you're getting pretty close where some of the base infrastructure is going to be out in the wild there, where then applications can start to be thought about to build on this. And now, suddenly, we're talking about having real world solutions. And it's like, okay, who's going to touch it? It solves a real world problem on what
I see a global scale and you're again outside the reach of any of the central banks, any of the commercial banks, any of the governments, any of the regulators. We couldn't even put that, we couldn't even be in compliance with regulation if we wanted to because there's no company name to put on any of the paperwork. That's really the situation I think I find to itself in.
Yeah, that's all great points. Especially how, because people talk about banking, the unbank, and we've gotten to a point where we're able to infiltrate some of the hardest places to get, you know, cell phones have turned them everyone into their own bank. The problem is
is most need some centralized application that they don't have access to, cash app or whatever. You see somebody centralized businesses starting to try and to branch out. I've leapfrogged all of that and it's just person to person. Somebody earns a little bit high, they start opening their community and before you know
the community starts up voting the harder to reach community members and then so on and so forth. And eventually there's going to be enough people who are like, look, it's hard to get dollars or any kind of staplish asset where we are. And we have access to one really easily.
As you can say, it's not limited. There's no limited supply. So if people need to, they can always market by hive, convert it to HBD. If they can't get access to HBD directly. And that's going to create a positive feedback loop.
Because now it starts with the merchants and then the governments because these governments, you know, they're not really on the inside of these banking cartels. They're, you know, they're sort of Independence and just kind of hop in, you know, using what they what's most convenient at the time. We're starting to see what we've been seeing.
fall of fiat currencies in the smaller countries, the hyperinflation, and just aspiring out of control. And they ultimately end up adopting a stronger currency and just forgetting having a native one. So these sort of countries are going to be primed. And you might think, oh, that's really grandiose. But you know,
having this technology, having it so readily available, tying it to the social media. So it has the viral spread opportunity, giving people the opportunity to spread the coin where they see fit. That's going to get us to a lot of places. And then before you know it, we're creeping up and people are actually starting to
utilize the DeFi applications you talk about the layer 2s being built. Right now we have the technology to do it. We're trying to build a node of node systems to make it to where you really don't need to bring your own validators. You can just plug in your DeFi application and the validators come
to you. I think that's the future of how how layer two node systems are going to work. Once we get to there, then we should start seeing some baby DeFi popping up. You know, you see Leo Finance, but this is sort of, you know, building
ahead of time, right? Leo Finance was very early. They could easily adopt this node to node systems and if they have no validators, cool. If not, they'll have some that can fill in the slots at any time.
So yeah, more DeFi applications, more penetration into these other countries that really need it truly banking the unbanked. You have a 5 cent fee, 10 cent fee, that's too much and a lot of the world. You're literally excluding
90% of the people if you have such that sort of fee on at least a transfer basis and one of the good things about being fearless is a currency is ultimately strong when it's distributed and valued.
If people are too scared to distribute it because of the fees that hurts distribution, when you distribute HBD is a Trojan horse for distributing hive as well, because at any time that HBD can become hive, well it is hive, but
It can become hive that is then powered up and voted in government at any time. So yeah, I think we're in a really good spot and We're starting to see the baby steps. It takes a long time. We don't have centralized funding.
But you're right, we're in a place where the sky is the limit in terms of the adoption and it doesn't really make sense not to adopt it. And when you start to think very practically, how would you do it in any other way?
Here's something very interesting, Dan, that I don't think people realize. And I'm sure you've heard of this term, "Gresham's Law," which basically in short and farms says, "Bad money drives. Good money out."
And this is, I guess you could say, an economic theory that's been held for a long time. And in many ways is correct. But what's very interesting is in the non-physical monetary world,
bad money drives good money out. It's only applicable.
When legal tenders involved, IE to government.
When something's legal tender, then you have the situation where the bad money, because it's legal tender, can drive out other forms, alternative forms of money.
When you're not dealing with legal tender and this is why you know all these bit coiners pushing for. Bitcoin to be legal tender.
That ends up becoming underbrushed from law.
And what I see is when you take that out, Grishon's Law actually works in the opposite. That good money will drive bad money out. And that's exactly what you're saying with, and you've talked about, with trying to get into these third world nations and trying to get into these areas of poverty.
trying to get to the areas of the bank in the bank because they have a situation where due to a variety of reasons within their monetary system, their banking system, their financial system, their government system, their currency subs, you know, and you can go to
then as well you can go to Zimbabwe, you can go through Nigeria, you can go through most of these countries. We all bitching alone in the first world about our banking system. There's legitimate problems with the banking system, but the corruption that you see in
banking system in the United States versus the corruption in Venezuela or Nigeria. They're not even close. And so when you start to look at a currency, when you start to look at money, and we start to talk about HBD, we start to talk about the availability
of a stablecoin that possibly has its derivatives and can take on many forms but still is tied back to that core HBD. So even if you have AHBD and BHBD and CHBD and DHBD which all these people could create on
and they're all tied back to HBD at the base layer, i.e. a one-for-one backing if you will or something to that effect. All that value that's derived is first off push stage BD, but the value of HBD that's enhanced is then pushed out
to all those corners of the world and it's also is going to push out all of that other money in the world whether it be Fiat, whether it be digital, whether it be virtual, whatever the asset is that people are utilizing as money, if all of a sudden you have
this HBD, let's talk about high bonds. Well, if you have high bonds based upon what you and I and Matt have discussed in some of the writings that I put together and you have this bond that's tied to HBD that's in the time ball. So you have full transparency, you have the
the future value money that you can figure out. You know the exact rate or return, you know the time period, you know how many units were put in there. So now you have something that's pristine collateral. That's also going to drive out euro bonds. That's going to have to drive out Japanese bonds. That's going to drive out a lot of the sovereign debt that is
used as money in our financial system. So what I see is potential here is we have the ability to flip Flip Gresham's law on its ear and say, you know what, we are creating better money. This can push out all that bad money at
that's out there because of the simple fact we're not dealing with legal tender. Hive HBD will never be legal tender. No country is going to make HBD their legal tender. We don't want them to make it legal tender because that's counter to what we want. We want all the people in Cuba, in Venezuela, in Nigeria, and
all these people who are displaced, they're not part of the financial system, they're really not part of the monetary system. If they are, they have to deal with shit currency that is backed by just, you know, basically loan sharks and say, you can come into the high-vego system, you can come into this realm
And you have access to this. In fact, we have ways of distributing it into your country where you don't have to leave where you are Dan. I don't have to leave where I am. Matt doesn't have to leave wherever the hell he is this week. And we have the ability to push the money into those systems into currency into those areas.
without having to even leave where we're at. And that when you think about it is pretty powerful.
Yeah, given them an alternative Very important special well to some assignment alternative. It's just the only option There's literally no other options available a lot of people in some of these countries actually trade phone credits So it's you know, they're trying to capture value in any way they possibly can
So, yeah, obviously, Hive is going to be very powerful for these people. You tie it to a social media account. You can say where you're at, maybe even access Dow funding for community ventures, a ladder for a lot of people and some of the holes that they're in. And I've seen people climb up and utilize it and get to a
place of high at least higher elevation. We've seen what happened in Ghana, Venezuela. And I hope this happens more and more, more and more places. It's going to make HBD more valued and give these people an opportunity instead of trading these phone credits or whatever to adopt a
a sophisticated currency comes with a lot. It's not just HBD, you get your high of account, you can do a lot with that. A lot of access there. Well, I think one thing that is very important in this discussion
And something that most people don't look at is when it comes to a currency, what ultimately backs your currency is the economic productivity type. Because money is really a tool, especially currency. It's not wealth. If it was wealth countries could make themselves wealthy by just printing a
We've seen countries in Bob Bay and some of these other countries have tried that. Obviously that has not worked out because it's simply not how things work. You need the economic productivity, you need economic expansion. If you are a country that has the
capabilities, the skills, the people willing to invest, the entrepreneurs, the risk takers, the people who have the know how and are willing to put themselves out there to try to build companies or try to build this technology or try to build whatever they're trying to build and enhance the economic productivity by building
more factories or expanding into new markets or expanding the product line or starting a new company or whatever the case may be. When you have that and you have that economic productivity that's expanding that's what ultimately is back in your currency. And you look at a lot of these countries that we're talking about
And you look at the people who are in these countries, they are fully and totally dependent upon what's taking place in their geographic area, their local area, and when I say local area we'll call it within our national borders. And you talk about the phone credits, well phone credits are just another way of the community, of the population.
We are going to redefine money. We are going to develop a new medium of exchange. And since phone credits, or I guess you could say that's an access token, this is what gives us access to the mobile network, we are going to use these phone credits as an access token.
To the mobile network and for people who want access the mobile network that has value so these people have on their own Created what what's what's traditionally can be called ghost money because these phone credits are on the ledger They just transfer it on the ledger and all of a sudden they're basically, you know
It's credit. It's money. That's out there. And so people are swapping it for goods or services or whatever the local population is doing. But what gets very interesting about what we're talking about here, and you mentioned Ragnarok. And I've listened to you talk about it.
have invested a great deal of time, you've invested a great deal of financial resources out of your pocket into this. And ultimately, if you fulfill your vision and then turn it over to the community who takes that vision and enhances it, you have the view
that that can bring more value to high, to this ecosystem, to the high economy, which ultimately that's what's back in these coins. So my point here is you take somebody in Venezuela or Zimbabwe or Ghana or any of these countries.
What's great about these currencies is as we build up the high economy, that strengthens these currencies and these people have the ability to tap into it and they have the ability to supersede the economy in their local physical area and their national economy.
which right now are not very good and they can tap into something much bigger. So all of a sudden you sit there and say okay, Ragnarok becomes, I don't know, I'll just pick a number, but it becomes a game that has tens of millions of dollars in value because of all the players and the network effect
and all the different assets and the gambling that's tied to it and all that goes along with it. Tenz of millions of dollars from this one game that is creating value on hive that's tied to these tokens to these coins at the base layer. And now somebody who has either hive or even HBDS as
the medium of account, the medium of exchange, excuse me, because you're looking at use in that token or that coin as the medium of exchange in Ragnarok, you're looking at use in for your price pool, locking up HBD and savings and maybe ultimately
some time-off and using the interest as your prize pool. Now all of a sudden somebody in one of these countries is just riding all the effort, all the money, all the time that you put in and other people put in and you're in a first world country or, you know, I guess
Mexico is first world country and they're able to all of a sudden tap into an economy that is much stronger, much more active, growing at a much quicker pace than their present economy and they have the currency that they can tap into and oh by the way all they need is a smartphone and they don't even need
to deal with Apple or Google to download the app because this is all resonant to blockchain. They just they can even enter it through a browser. I guess they have to get keychain or high sign or on that phone. But outside of that, they're involved. And I mean, that's just when you think about it from that perspective, or at least
when I think about it from that perspective, that's why this high economy is so important because this thing could be truly global and if we have 150 to 100,000 dedicated people building and viewing themselves as a business in whatever way they are and building whatever is of interest to them,
Now you have an economy with 150,000 businesses, some not having a great impact, but some others having a huge impact. And that's something that everybody else around the ecosystem can tap into. Yeah, it's a perfect point.
Basically every person who joins a network just by holding HBD joins the high ecosystem has access to all sorts of different opportunities you can say rag and rock splinter lands front ends what have you and that ultimately strengthens the sensors
resistance or at least the network effect of the hive coin which is backing HP. So it's another circular loop in a positive direction. But test has been about an hour. I'm actually going to have to hop off soon. You have any less thoughts?
No, I think this was a very productive conversation. I think when you look at the, I just can't stress enough the idea of finance.
and social media because I think that's where the online world is going and we when I say we being blockchain and high
That basis is in the financial. It's basically from Bitcoin. It's basically from the idea of mutable money, all of this other stuff. And then, over time, the evolution of the creation of Steam by Dan Larimer.
and then the evolution into hive that it had the social media element to to blockchain whereas you got Elon Musk who's going the opposite direction he's taking a social media platform and saying okay let's integrate finance into this so I think that's
the race. It's just that's a web 2.0 and that's a web 3.0 race. It's like who is going to incorporate both finance and social media together and the difference between Twitter and high, forgetting the size, the difference is stark,
One is centralized, one is server based, one is going to be under the control of Twitter and the Twitter organization, and one is decentralized, distributed, and not under the control of anybody. Yep, and then there will be a third class, you could say Jack Doris.
his web 5 but it's unincentivized which ultimately leads to centralization. Well obviously I have to see how that plays out in practice. Maybe everyone runs their own node and I'm out of my mind and I'm just not seeing it but I don't believe that. I don't believe people aren't going to do anything unless they're incentivized to do so.
So yeah, I think if you had to pick one, you'd have to go with the one being decentralized and offering incentives for the infrastructure it's running. Well, if I could ask you because I really don't study
it enough. Where is Dorsey claiming his or how is he claiming hit what he's building is decentralized? I know we got web 5, I'm web 3 and web 2. But what's his claim to even decentralize
I'm not even sure could you explain that? It's going to be open source. Anyone can run a node and spin it up. It's the same ideals of the Lightning Network. You can call the Lightning Network decentralized, which it is.
is it censorship resistant in practice? Well, if I need to send you money for an emergency and you have a node and I have a node, that's fine. But our millions and millions of people are going to run their own node. No. Is a centralized entity like Chase Bank going to
around and run a node if it becomes popular and offer zero fees for your data for you to use them. Yes, that's ultimately going to happen. So what does that mean? It means the free markets destroyed because it's only going to be on a need to need basis and how inconvenient for me to have to spin up a node
have you spin up a node and then send you money and then close my node and then you close your node because that's what that's the only thing we want to do with sender transaction. No, ultimately we're going to use one of these centralized servers as well if there was no other option because that's just not practical. It's risky. Most people don't know how to run a node.
So it's going to be the same problem with Jack Dorsey's Web 5. We see it's very popular now. People are running nodes and they're spinning up and everyone's having a good time. In a year's time that will die down. And people won't think it's as cute. They'll realize how much work it actually takes. And they're going to get really sick and tired.
of their data being deleted over and over again as these nodes pop off. And eventually, Jack will come around and say, "Hey, I'll give 100 Bitcoin for this one." And then there'll be this one awesome node. And everyone uses that and then eventually it becomes, you know, it has to come up with a business model.
If it's not him, it's going to be someone else. Someone's going to say, "Hey, I'll offer you a better user experience for your data." You know why? Because people will do it. People will accept that trade. Billions of people will accept that trade. They already have. So there's a business model there, and someone's going to do it.
But unless we can build a censorship-resistant way where people are attracted to it, they want to actually use it. And the only way to do that is to offer things that Web2.5 can't do and Web.5 can't practically sustain.
So for Jack Dorsey's, if it comes to user experience problem, it's going to be terrible. I'm not going to say it's going to be terrible. Who am I? I'm not no should, I believe it's going to be a terrible user experience. I believe the masses aren't going to do it. And if there is going to be any good
user experience. It's going to be from a centralized point of view. And then I believe in Web 2.5, it just goes to doing things they can't do. I tokenize communities, immutable sovereignty over your data and your account. These things that they just can't offer.
So we have a lane. We have our own lane that's unobstructed. We just have to make sure we build the foundation to where A, people know how to use it and B, people want to use it. So far, we've been doing that. We're just doing it quietly, but
We're building a network effect nonetheless So so basically what Dorsey is his idea of decentralization is basically Replicating what the lightning network is Yeah, I mean yeah in layman's terms is basically bring your own infrastructure
but you're not getting incentivized to do so. Accept the incentive to host your own node and be heard.
which has its uses. I mean, it's good. It's like a bullhorn. It's like a flare gun. Like if you really need to sense a money and you're in a pinch, that's a pretty cool option to at least have. But is it going to be what the mass is used? Is it what the application, the mass application is going to be built on and they're going to be able to offer a true censorship resistant experience?
I mean, I can say yes, but I think Hive's going to be far, that's a superior. So it's like, yeah, it's an option. I'm glad it's there at least. I just hope that it doesn't become a
black hole where people go and they join it and then they're sort of lured into a centralized node.
And then everyone just flocks to that and then there's no competition. And then the years go by, people become reliant on it, like they do Twitter, et cetera. And then of course the node has to need a business model. So that's the problem I see with it.
But I'm glad it's there because we can always incentivize it with I've we can build applications that incentivize these things. You can say do the same with them. You know, you can build a D-Post system with Lightning Network with nodes with like a Wacomool and they're, you know, they're incentivized.
to do so we would do that because why because high Bitcoin is liquid and it's you know we're not gonna we're not looking off chain the fiat looking off chain of Bitcoin which is essentially fiat for crypto right you have Bitcoin you can go to pretty much any currency you need
Well, it's very interesting. You just struck an idea with me and I wonder if this is an overall sentiment or a testament to the sentiment that's out there. And you're talking in the financial arena with his web 5 stuff. But we've seen in the social media
world. All these alternatives, we saw a bunch of Twitter things pop up before Elon took over. Almost all of them have failed. And so what you're saying, if I'm reading it correctly, potentially we could be looking at a market where
Okay, everybody maybe runs and tries this thing out, but then they realize, you know what, this is just more of the same. Yeah, I ran from Twitter to Rumble or whatever the hell that they'd expect. I went to high social and it's more of the same. It's no different. So maybe we ultimately are watching people's rejection of the
these new centralized social media platforms, as also an indicator of what people are going to be doing in the financial saying, okay, you claim this is a new financial system, but it's really the same damn thing. Yeah, I just find it funny that Jack Dorsey ran a centralized
website with the centralized infrastructure is now against incentives for infrastructure. He's pretty much saying, "Oh no, the people run it themselves." Knowing damn well exactly what's going to happen. So, yeah, you can make anything sound decentralized in theater, but when you actually run it in practice, you really have to
to say, well, these are going to be problem points. It's very obvious what happens with no incentives. We have plenty of practice to learn. You know, at the incentive, someone is going to do it because there's always an incentive. It's just, is it going to be you? Or are you going to be incentivized by censorship resistant protocol? That's non-biased.
That's the difference. So, Web. Web 5, whatever it wants to call you're going to end up the bait. You know, that's just what it is. You're going to get offered a free experience somewhere and
And exchange for your data is saying the same thing over and over again. I don't see another option for that route. I just don't believe everyone's going to happily run their own node. We've already seen it with lightning network. It's good as use cases, but it's not what mass adoption. Getting mass awareness and getting action.
We have a lot of additional scalable applications. That's not where it's going to be built in my opinion. Well, everyone, I hope Matt returns soon for those who don't know. Disregard Fiat said honeycomb needed some notes up on some grizzly bears up in the Arctic.
I think that's where Matt is, his week attaching nodes to Grizzly Bear, so they're fully decentralized. But then this was fun. We talked about some different things, and maybe you guys will do a CTT here shortly. Yeah.
Matt's back from spreading those nodes out from the forest. Hopefully we'll have one next week. Last month he was in the Amazon with the crocodile. He's committed to decentralization and censorship-resistant. We have like 60-70
know it's but people don't know about 5% of those are wild animals. Well you put on the right animals nobody can take the animals out because you get a protected animal like a bald eagle or something put a note on a bald eagle nobody can shoot the eagle.
nothing's above Matt man he'll do it he's out there he's but he's doing the Lord's work he's the medic alright TASK uh yeah that was fun fun as always little spontaneous money talk so glad to glad to have you on speak soon cheers everyone