Hey Boris. I even shall hear you.
Good, how are you? Yeah, quite good.
Is John going to be with us today? Yes. So, maybe maybe obviously Jacobo, but I mean maybe we have
No, it would be John and Huckleball.
Someone from Europe here, you can type in a vintage.
I'm wondering how cool it is right now there.
We can. We can. Wait a minute because I'm having some blue to the issues. Let me mute myself and see if I can get a sorted.
Good. Are you John? I'm not bad. I want to see a question, Paris. In the north of England at the moment, it's a bit cold. Oh, is that, I mean, a bit cold, is that a few degrees? Yes. Minus three. No, it's five degrees, four degrees.
There are no other things in UK that's pretty boring. It never normally gets too hot. It doesn't normally get too cold. I'm aware of it. It's going to be my first Christmas. It's going to be weird. I don't know how I'd
react to uh... you know how to barbecue christmas day well i'll tell you what you said it's a part of it so i think i've sorted out the blutin so borris where were you that you can be in a warm having a warm christmas
Yeah, I'm in Cambodia. Oh, cool. Lucky you. Lucky you. Yeah, yeah, fair enough. I guess. Excellent. Yeah, yeah. So here we are. Another month. I see that the
the bear market is definitely taking the toll. We will soon be able to say that we're running the smallest community calls ever. How fun is that going to be? I would, I would necessarily say that a couple. A lot of people listen to this. I'm, you know, it's in the middle of the day for our vehicles.
I was just dropping the joke. That's all. That's all. I mean, a gen of the days recorded so they can listen to it later on when the bull market comes back. I know. And they can pull their hair then down. I can't believe I missed that one. I know.
Yep, exactly. Just joking. Okay, so John, would you like to maybe ask?
I've taken a look at some of the questions that are on the Discord channel. We've, like every time, can we just start with a general update and just a
obviously the work and shiver and switch have been done since the last community call. Yeah, then we can go through questions. That's what I was going to say, boss. I'm going to try and avoid things in the update that people have asked questions about. So we don't pay as often enough.
So yeah, it's busy. We've thankfully picked up one new hire, which is always nice to the team grow. We've got a new senior DevOps person based in Buenos Aires. Actually, we've
True. Very true. So, yeah, we have a new senior DevOps person and a new front end developer, which is nice. So, yeah, we've grown the team a little, which is always important. We are continuing to look for backend engineer and possibly senior friends and engineers.
So as we've said on previous community calls we are hiring during a bear market which is generally a good sign. The company has not been affected and I mentioned this on Discord the other week. We have not been affected by any of the recent market turbulence particularly
around Alamader, FTX, etc. We try as best as we can to adopt very sensible, very small-seed conservative principles when it comes to managing the company treasury. That means cold storage, multi-signature wallets, hardware wallets, obviously.
and it doesn't generally involve ever using exchanges and when we do have to use an exchange for whatever reason we try to minimize the amount of time our funds are helping. So company remains well capitalised. The biggest news is probably around Nomey 3 and I know a lot of the questions are around Nomey 3.
We are very close to having a feature complete testnet. We have had a testnet up and running for a while now. It's just a case of adding a few pieces that we needed to build from scratch. So things around NFT bridges to help Kiwi work the way we want it to. I think we'll start with 721.
proposals that were at the moment were expected to come back to us any day now. And to be absolutely clear that proposal is to build something on Nami, not to build something on anything else. So yeah, that's thanks to the exciting news for us. And yeah, co-ord, in terms of the, in terms of the
We've had the Nomey 3 Testnet running for a while. One of the tasks that we've been working on is taking existing Nomey 2 products that were built on that testnet, making sure they'll work with Nomey 3, getting them deployed, getting them tested, making sure they're okay, ready to go for launch, and also the products that we haven't
some of those are still in development, some of those are the testing stage, it's all about getting those onto Nome 3 as well to make sure everything works as intended. So I don't want to give too much away in terms of the answers to the questions that have been put on Discord, but the cobb always very anything else you'd like to add to that in terms of a summary.
Now, other than the, then the, then the search still remains and the focus still the same, getting, getting feature complete of number three, that's at ASAP and half border all the product there. And then we have put together a pretty decent, straightforward strategy and wrote up for the next.
two quarters, which we'll consider on product deployments, integrations and partnerships announcements and more to come. So we're in good spirits and busy. There is one partnership that hasn't yet been signed but has been effectively agreed and printed.
But I think the community were quite like when you're not going to announce that until the time's right. I'm going to announce it with them. But that's been a key focus for us over the last month getting that one nailed down. There's something that Venetia has very kindly just reminded me of which was the hackathon that took place. So the hackathon was a
in Lagos, Nigeria, it was with our friends at Web 3 Bridge and we posted some knee tokens, some USDC as an incentive. We had a couple of really, really strong entries who split the prizes. The winning team, team Bondy, if they call it, they've been looking into prototyping some protocol
the quality type solutions for us. We have our own spin on that kind of thing that we're investigating. There's no guarantee it will definitely be turned into a product but we're pretty confident that what we've mapped out will make sense as a retail product. So that one is something that we've, like I said, we've looked at for a long time. I know a lot of people on this call
all of our ask questions previously around, succulating supply of knee tokens, do we have any plans to get people to lock tokens up to reduce circulating supply? The answer is always yes, we're always interested in anything that might be tempting in that respect to lock up tokens to reduce the circulating supply. Obviously we don't comment generally
on price directly but we are clearly aware of the fact that the fewer tokens there are in circulation the better the price of the token might well be. So yeah we've been putting together a proposal for the team that built the winning entry. They're a really interesting team but 6 to 7 I think we were very
very impressed with what they did. So yeah, they'll be getting a proposal from us in the next few days to see whether or not we can bring them on board as an additional development team to chat out some code quite quickly. If we like what we see and we do like what we've seen so far, we might work with a monofil time basis. So yeah, they're
We generally as a company try to explore every possible route to scaling up the team's capacity. Sometimes it's internal hires in the conventional sense, sometimes it's bringing on board contractors, sometimes it's bringing work to outsource teams like the hackathon winners, basically anything that we can do
to speed up the process of getting people to build on Nami. That's the clear goal for us. But it was nice. The hackathon went well. It's the first time that anyone's had a play with Nami 3 Tessnet in the wild. It was stable. It was a good experience. The developers to build on, obviously, Nami 3's EVM. Equivalent
which makes things easier than the norming 2 was to build on. So yeah, it's looking bright in that respect. So Boris, would you like to start us off with a long list of questions? We've got some good ones this week. Sure we can do that of course. Just leave me two seconds.
Right, well, I mean, you already answered this question, which is about Nordbank, obviously. Do you believe that they will use them in their commercial CBC rollouts? In that? Yeah, okay.
And even if we knew we couldn't comment on that. So nobody knows. First of all, then you could click question, which is mine. You mentioned a new client, a new bank, John may I ask if it is simply you giving them a service in exchange of money
or them actually making a partnership, we vote that benefit for the government. Very interesting question Boris. So strangely this central bank was recommended to use an army by Norgesbank. So the Norgesbank work we've been doing
has opened a lot of doors for us. And I'll work with Nogis Bank actually continues they're doing a large scale hackathon at the moment, building on top of the sandbox environment. It's given us fantastic exposure to different companies in Norway, different banks, tech companies.
So yeah, in terms of this other central bank, there's a proposal to them at the moment nothing's being signed. So we are a little bit limited in terms of what we can say at the stage, but as soon as we have some news, we'll share that with the community. Yeah, I can imagine. Okay, cool. Thank you. All right. Can you give in?
update on the patents, NAMI patents. Will you have your registered thirded patents? How do you think these will positively impact NAMI and affect other players in the industry? We will not comment on that. Of course, if nobody knows what is going to happen in the future, but
We agreed five years ago that we're going to follow the IP protection of our work, which so far is going pretty well. We're going through the necessary steps where the very end of the process and how is going to affect it? Nobody knows. We have of course
I'm curious, once you would like to follow in the future, but it would not be very smart of us just to give any hints away in terms of what we want to do. But again, our focus is to build the best technology and get mass adoption. Everything else is secondary or not even that.
Next one then. Nammetry, launching. Nammetry. Will D apps be launched directly?
Or will we have to wait a bit more? It will be MX, is the answer. So we have a release schedule. I've designed around maximizing the impact of the products that we have ready to go. And those products, they'll obviously be the ones that we've talked about having built internally.
but there are also features that will come progressively over time. So those will be partnerships, those will be partner products that will be deployed on NAMI and are internally built products as well. So the short answer is they won't all be ready at launch, they'll be tripped
Fed. So I'd imagine we're probably leaning towards the DeFi side of it first with the NFT thing coming later on. So yeah, I'd expect that most of them will be, most of them will be deployed within that say three months of not be going right. It very much depends on the individual products that
Let me ask you a more specific question than the apps we can find already on, for example, scan the website. Will they be launched anonymously or not?
We'll certainly have the existing NomMe 2 applications, right? So that means obviously Nephi and QIrib, so the question for us is which order of released products gives us the best possible chance of making them success?
and we'll probably group them in terms of their verticals. So we have DeFi-related products, they'll probably launch together, and we have NFT-related products, they'll probably launch together. The game-Fi products that tie the two together, they'll come probably in the worst of that makes sense.
What we are talking about the apps, how is NIFA doing? There is a few questions about it, I'll just roll them in.
This pan if I to move from beta will it roll out fully with the launch of na midi 3 which is censored to include on off ramps and a full section of tokens to trade.
to trade a genie. So, yeah. So, boss, we get questions about Nephi every community call and we always send the same thing. Nephi is absolutely central to what we're trying to build. Nephi is called to our
Nify strategy, Nify has seen more work on it recently, obviously the work that we're doing on Nify internally hasn't necessarily been released. But I think it's important for people to remember that with Nify we said it'll launch, obviously as beta, Nify has performed consistently and has done what was promised in terms of the
core functionality day in day outs since it launched. The Uptime is good, the performance is good, anyone's actually launched, actually played around with it knows how fast it is, how much easier it is to use than an Ethereum-based equivalent but Uniswob, but we also recognise there's a lot more we can do with Nephion.
Obviously there's a long term roadmap planned out that was talked about the time that it was released. There are additional things now knowing about NRM3 and the products we're building that we want to link Nephi into. I believe previous calls we've talked about Nephi potentially powering a gain-fire solution where we tie NFTs and
and mean coins perhaps together or something similar to make it interesting. So the community has been able to dig and find evidence of these sort of things, but Nephi hasn't gone away. It's still up and running. It's absolutely important for what we're trying to do in the future.
It's Nami working with EY. Bob Brady notes says that they are laser focus on the TH. The laser tools are the most important battle in blockchain today and that the largest industrial client means alpha million and
50s per day. Those are left number obviously, but just making a point. So we are not working already with EY, no, but we have a friend, I have on the UI system and we are in regular contact with them, but we're not working with them, no.
Cool. John, some questions from Denise. I'm sure you'll like them.
The main upgrade is to be EVM equivalent, but are there also other changes that will different or new on NAMI tree? And if so, will the WAP get an update on this? - The WAP is the WAP? - Yeah, that one. Yes, yes, yes.
So, there's the exciting enhancements, but we are not going to be talking about those just yet because those are kind of the unique selling points that feel free to jump to. Yes, so there are things that we can't talk about and it's cool and things that we can't. Obviously, one of the main benefits of Nomey 3.
over NOMI 2 is not just EVM equivalent, but how you will deploy smart contracts and what you need to do to those smart contracts. So with NOMI 2 you would need to slightly change a smart contract to get it to work. So you couldn't just pick up one from a possibility smart contract from Ethereum.
and drop it straight into numby 2, it had to be fland. There were numby 2 basically added a small overhead to the size of each smart contract that was deployed on its network. numby 3 doesn't do that and actually this is one of the reasons that pushed us down the road of going for numby 3 and evm equivalence. So we
We had a number of partners that approached us and said we'd like to deploy our solution on your network and the only way to get these very large smart contracts that were at the limit of the size you can get on Ethereum to work on nummy2 was to start refactoring the code. Now if you have a battle tested, audited smart contract,
that's moved large amounts of money and it's been used for storing or transferring large amounts of money. You don't want anybody to play around with that because it's your name on the code. It's your reputation on the line. So to make things easier and to avoid costly audits, to avoid
that we really focus on ahead of the launch and make a lot of noise about the specific new abilities of Army 3. But EVM equivalents and easier deployment and development of small contracts, they're huge for us, there are other things as well, but we can't necessarily talk about all of them right now. In terms of the white paper,
it almost certainly will be updated to affect the new changes. It'll probably be me that has to do changes to the white paper at some point, but generally speaking we will do that later so I wouldn't expect the white paper update on day one. I work a little bit too busy working on other things.
The par-ride moving on to the next. As I read in messages from Sir and Doven, it is very smart that the upgrade requires the user to withdraw, move their own assets. But what can you say about this basket that you're going forward?
is expected that NAMI tree will be final number. For example, if the businesses or even countries run their products on NAMI tree, will they also face the threshold when there is a better NAMI 4 and we cannot simply update to the latest version.
Sorry, who is the question from? That's from Dennis. So no, I would not expect Navi3 to be the final version because by definition any software that doesn't upgrade, update, improve is an idle software that has no value.
no no props anymore. So we do expect more more features to be added in the future. We will also be making sure that those features can be deployed in a in the less traumatic less less disruptive way.
So we will, we're paying special attention to credibility as well.
But I do expect that these Nami 3 version will be the one that will take us to my adoption. So from that of course we will have to capture a lot of data points which will help us to improve n number of things and we will
We'll continue with the iterative process of capturing feedback, improving, deploying, capturing feedback, improving and applying. The point that the data is about upgradeability, I think, is an interesting one that's worth highlighting here.
We envisage that Nami 3 will be upgradable, in other words, that we won't necessarily have to have this withdraw and re-deposit into a new version. Whether we can sustain that as we continue to work on it is tippy-sync.
But one of the design goals for Nami 3 was to avoid the upgrade changes that we've seen for Nami 1 to Nami 2 and Nami 2 to Nami 3. So ideally this almost certainly won't be the last version of Nami. If we live
as long as we're hoping to. We're talking about building something for decades, not just for months or years, but it would be very much desirable to maintain upgradability with this version so that we don't have to have people withdrawing and read-positing again.
Actually, in the comment about building something for decades to last, in the year stamp will they have we for a first decade jump on enough?
Yep, and are many, many monthly adrops, which we still think is the longest running adrop program in crypto. I don't think there's been a long one.
I couldn't find one of my own at least. One more from Dennis actually two more. In some interviews the fees mentioned were about 30 cents for swath.
and 10th and fix with transfer. It is something that will be programmed on NEMI 3 to make the fees fixed in USD terms and maybe also payable in other tokens.
you can go ahead. I'm in a car guys so sorry about the background noise by the way. We can't, I don't know if anybody else but I can't see anyone here. We can't always want to call those speaks. So in terms of the fees being fixed in a USD equivalent that is the way that we plan to do it. Obviously in Nome 2 and Nome 3, the
fee currency and actually will be ETH, whether it's wrapped ETH, the NUMMY 2 will be ETH in NUMMY 3. The exact dollar amount, or dollar equivalent amount, is for a swap and a transfer we haven't decided on. We have an idea internally, it's not fully finalized. Again, that will be announced as you course.
The other point there is fees payable in other tokens. So for those of you that have been around for a long time, one of the cute features of NAMI 1 was that if you made a payment in USDC, the fee would be in USDC, if you made a payment in ETH, the fee would be in ETH. Now that's obviously a huge improvement over
of most systems, including Nomin 2. So we always had a roadmap item, an internal roadmap item, to add fees and other currencies. It's very, very much on the roadmap for Nomin 3. So it's a thing we've built before. We recognise the value of doing that. We understand that having to have ETH
So you perform transactions on a network is annoying and the cobalt tomorrow actually will be at the Nordic blockchain conference giving a presentation about how we move the world over from Web 2 to Web 3, what are the challenges that people face, building solutions for not just millions of Web 3 users but potentially billions.
This kind of thing is one of them. How can we make it so that people who are familiar with the Web2 environment can move seamlessly across the Web3? And if you have to pay a transaction fee for a transaction in one currency, the fee ideally should be in that currency. So yeah, it's very much on the road one.
And last one from Dennis, the Fisinerity of Nermy 2, what will happen to these?
So the fees from Nami 2 have not disappeared into the ether, they have been kept back and stored, they will be distributed, we'll probably part of blog post about the specifics when we launch Nami 3, we'll have a plan for transitioning away from Nami 2 to Nami
3. I will have some dates around how long Nomi 2 will run for, how you exit Nomi 2 to get to Nomi 3 etc. In terms of the fees, that will be covered in more detail, but effectively the fees haven't gone anywhere. We've been collecting the fees for transactions as you would expect.
they've been put into wallet, it's just a case of distributing them. So that one will probably end up being something more like an adrop, although don't necessarily take that as gospel truth, it needs to be confirmed internally and then we'll make an announcement as such.
Do you consider an army to as a close beta, John?
So, numby 2 is a closed beta in the sense that you couldn't deploy on numby 2 without our approval effectively. So, we always said that numby 2 would launch as a beta and as a public beta. But the fact that it was closed is simply a fact that you needed our consent.
You needed help from us to be able to actually deploy smart contracts on Nami too. So it's been that way since the start, even if it might not necessarily have been publicly announced like that. We certainly said that Nami would launch as a trusted public beta, whether we mentioned that it was closed, I'm not 100% sure.
that's tried to deploy on Nami 2 without working with us, but it weren't very quickly that you need help from us to be able to do so. You know, we need to white list your addresses to deploy on Nami 2. So that's been our position from the outset. With Nami 3, we're moving into a whole new world.
in terms of an open beta from a product perspective. It's really exciting. It's also satisfying when you have lots of people being able to deploy on your network. So we will need to keep an eye on what people do. We're not giving away the keys. The thing to
Obviously, there are certain conditions around what we will let people do on NAMI 3. When it is live, if people start spamming the network with large number of transactions, we can throttle them, we can blabber them if we need to be. But generally speaking, we're really looking forward to this. It's something that
If you stay as a closed beta, you're unlikely unless you're building credibly exciting applications that you sign up for the right partners. You're leaving a lot of interesting things on the table. So by going to an open beta, yes, this does.
create some issues for us in terms of content moderation in terms of network monitoring some of these things we do anyway because we allow people to use the products that are already on the network in number two's case but allowing people to deploy is a bit different so we'll need to be careful
We'll need to be slightly cautious about how we do it, but it'll be fantastic to see people building products on Nami launching their own things on Nami. And as we've always said, we don't have a monopoly on good ideas. So, in a word.
we will see a lot of copycat products, I'm sure people will just take existing Ethereum products and deploy them on NAMI, there'll be a lot of those I'd expect, but the good ones will rise to the top. So yeah, should be really good.
A bit of marketing now. I understood that you planned on marketing in a way that simply there are new features which some people never saw. I mean, you said it a few minutes ago, but is there any other plan which you came up with?
since life's communicable obviously.
Yeah, so like I said, there are some things that we can't go into too much detail on at this stage. I know that Coco probably has a sniper rifle aimed at the back of my head at this moment in time. In case I do say something out of the line, but there are some
some very interesting additional features that we think are unique beyond the core of the core of the fact that we have incredibly low latency, instant finality, critical cost, all those good things that we've been banging the draw about
for years and years now and it seems like the industry is finally listening. Certainly institutional adoption depends upon. So there are some interesting extra features that were relatively confident the community will like when they hear about it.
Certainly, those features are requested by companies and will be obvious, not only by us.
that also by industry companies and some of the with three products that would like to play on NAMI. So it's going to be very good.
Guys, I'm sorry, I'm going to skip some questions which have already been answered in previous commenticles just referred to those. We've got one from Red which is Aus was a W
and cloud service provider, now Microsoft and Google have captured sizeable market share, and crypto, arbitrage and polygons seem to have to crown today. Will we see Nami do a Google Microsoft?
I think that that is more of a more of a marketing stunt unless unless details are being provided and the metrics reflect
what those partnerships tend to announce. So I think that we have shown several times that we like to have something more tangible, like yes, we did announce a partnership because we did have a partnership with Microsoft. Now it's just to do business development together and to launch products together.
the market was so ideal, then some of the, or many of the companies that we approached to weren't ready for it either. But it was a partnership that it had something very tangible. It didn't play out as we were expecting. Now, most of the partnerships that we hear about on a daily, weekly basis
and crypto twitter are mostly their sign just to push the price of the tokens of those companies. While I'm saying that, I'm saying that just because if you announce a company with a billion users and the metrics on the blockchain still show you that
only a few tens of concurrent transactions are being done, then that is just proving that either you're a liar or your product is not being used or maybe both of them. I don't know. So all I'm saying is that the pharmaceuticals for the sake of it to be
to announce a big name. It doesn't make sense for us. Punishment with a big name to announce a product or a corporation that has got something, some value and some clear RIs and yes, that would absolutely make sense. I'm not sure if that answers the question.
So we can always say that any of the size of Google or Microsoft are delivery. But in terms of will we do a Google or Microsoft? It's almost impossible to say. What we can do is focus on the things that we know we do well. All successful businesses require
a little bit of good fortune, but as a Cobos favorite phrases, I think it was Gary Play to say, "How do you work for Lucky You Get?" So we will continue to work hard. We have a plan. We need to execute crisply on that plan, and Nami 3 years hopefully the vehicle to get us to the next leg up, which is where we're aiming.
And luck is basically timing and preparation, right? So, you get lucky. I mean, those who get lucky are not generally those who believe by the sulfatric in beers and many.
eating crisps, but those that are having worked in their after-south and they are the right place of the right town to deliver value. That is the finished off like. But yeah, hope that makes sense anyway.
You just said you are higher than you employee. I'm interested in knowing actually if to attract those employees you just use normal things as LinkedIn or you use your network.
I mean, you're a little connection people. Yeah, so we use everything we can to be asked. One of the employees just came out of nowhere. He sent a job proposal, sorry, he sent us his CV and we had a couple of meetings with him. He's a guy with 20
years of experience. So it's pretty solid. He knows his stuff. He can add value pretty much from the very beginning. He has proven that the case. And the other guy came recommended by one of our guys. And kind of the same. So we know the areas where we need to improve.
And when we interview that person, particularly then we put extra attention to detail to that particular article that we need to improve. And, you know, he he answered the questions correctly. He should kind of show the right attitude. We give him an initial
simple task and we saw that he delivered and now we have given him a much bigger task. A new product that we are signed last month, we are building this month. We are aiming at deploying it to testnet over the next few days.
And again, that has gotten the job done very well. We hope we will use code regularly and the problems that we have had before those are not present on the solution on the code.
that he has built. So again, in some cases, people have applied out of nowhere, in some of the cases they come from referrals of people that we trust and like. And in both cases, this time has worked very well, so we're very happy.
I'll get that answer from my question. Can we, okay, that's very priceless, so feel free to answer. But can we get some liquidity back on each HL1 for average opportunities?
So I did understand that question. Are we going to put some liquidity incentives back on a very ML1 as we had previously with Uniswalt V2? Uniswalt V3? The current plan is no, but the plan is always open to change.
more realistically we have a certain number of tokens every month that we use for incentives and we would prefer to see those tokens used as incentives for products that generate fees on NAMI 3. So we're always open to conversations with people who want to build on our platform.
about what we can do in centres of helping them in incentives to increase adoption, but unless we see a compelling case for putting those initiatives back on L1, it's on what they will do. So we'd much rather incentivise you some of our own network rather than incentivise Uniswap. - And Kaobo, would you say that's fair?
Yes, that is fair. And also when it comes into rewards, keep in mind guys that we have a network that we have built, a protocol platform, whatever you want to call it.
And we want to incentivize the usage of it and we have a number of products coming out. So we need to be very strategic on the front as well.
Yep. All right. Well, everyone heard about the FTX collapse. Here comes the first question about this. In the light of the FTX collapse, workers in the north's phone have been used for handling through a number of complicated transactions. Who we share the light on how DeFi and NAMI NIFI
particular is a more secure option than cify. One thing I don't fully understand is how Ethereum layer 1 secures Nami layer 2. They're a way for me to use Ethereum layer 1 to check my own design Nami layer 2. I'm thinking about both my oldings have been deal with the old tokens on Nami
and my old things, liquidity both is the transparency of old things only available on the mixed or also on either scan. Okay so many questions and I will answer a little bit of it and then John if you want you can also some other ones. I will talk
But if TX so so the biggest problem here is of course the educational set of things right so as this person is is asking and not fully knowing the differences between C5 and D5 is of course concerning and I can say that as as you indicated at the beginning of the call we have not
been affected by FTX directly because we didn't use it before either. But what we see is that indirectly the sentiment around the industry has clearly changed and not in a very positive way. So I'm not going to say that this is taking the industry back, a number of years, some
oracles in crypto twitter like to announce. But what I can say, and this is from somebody who has been doing these death-around blockchain back in 2018, is that the sentiment has changed and not very positively.
most of it is due to the fact that those parties don't really understand the differences between D5 and C5 or TROD5. And unfortunately, that
has got to do with us and by us I mean now me but I mean also it wasn't this cold and I was not having that our work properly right so we haven't really spent enough time with our peers educating them on why defi
is better than C5. We have noted to get them well enough to make a separation between essential Essex change is not actually a web-through solution. It's just a proprietary service.
that it is fully commoditized, very often run by shady actors and from shady jurisdictions with shady purposes. So, DeFi is fine.
Central Atlantic changes are not fine. Really? I'm not saying that they're not good or central Atlantic changes because there are many and we personally know a few of those so um
The work that we're mostly doing these days with those financial institutions, but we have access to them and we talk relatively with is showing them a high degree of empathy because often when you speak with third parties that are powerful dominant in their industries or well-educated, you actually
We don't like to feel stupid. That is why the very often they will not ask and there will be a fried-up asking questions. That's why you need to show them the group empathy and then take them step by step, explain them how things work and why X is better than Y. And with that, of course,
you also earn their trust. And I know if we say abortion, just don't trust, verify. So everybody should be spending more time educating our peers, friends, family, and other third parties. And we should be pushing towards
more DeFi world, but still it's true that there are a lot of friction points to comfortably use DeFi. That is what we're here doing, what we're doing. But yeah, I think that I really think that it's pretty good. The 3AC
Celcius, F2X, F2X, Alamida, and all those guys are being flushed out. I know at least one or two people on this space right now that spoke to me in the past about F2X and about
I don't personally know some, but we have friends in common, and Quintet is in common, and maybe he knew about us. I can tell you though that we have spoken in the past to some people from his circles, from FTX or RIDA.
There were a lot of blind spots in this story that he was selling. It really surprised me how he went from nothing to everything, just another couple of years.
Now of course in Hanford World's mother, but I would say that his track record is actually showing that he was pretty bloody good at scamming and that he was going to end up this way.
Nobody should believe that he was doing arbitrage in Japan making millions of dollars. We, John and I are pretty close to some individual who have made a living out of arbitrage way, way, way for Alamida, and there and then the
the opportunities that he was talking about never existed or didn't exist. So, so differently, there's a lot of bullshit around these factors and it's only good that these factors are being flushed out and of course there should be in jail and I personally feel very sorry for those who have lost money.
But in the long term, mid term, and even short term, it is good for the industry. It's actually pretty damn good. Also, particularly, it's very good for us, because we have been labeled by as well some community members in the past of being too proper and too boring and too kind of
adult but big important companies and players are realizing that having some adults in the room is actually pretty damn good for the industry. Jo, I don't know what you want to add on this topic. I have a few things to say and let's start with the obvious point.
It doesn't matter in the long run whether this is good or bad for the industry and it will probably end up being good in the sense that as the Web 3 space matures these kind of slightly rogue actors or very rogue in this case are shaken out of the ecosystem and things become potentially more regulated they become more structured
people start asking for things like kind of an exchange pay me out if I want my money. All the things that DeFi does well, not just proof of reserves, proof of liability as well, but let's start with the main and most important point which is there are some people who entirely
really innocently put their crypto tokens, put their wealth into FTX, not just because they thought, "Well, I can trade, I can be a DJM with 125X leverage." They literally thought this was a safe place to put their tokens, and those people have potentially lost.
most of all of the funds and some of the stories that you hear coming out of this are really, really sad. So while it might be a good thing in the long run, it's very difficult to tell people who've had life savings or life changing amounts of money wiped out through someone else's casino actions when they were meant to be running a bank.
that, oh, you know, it's good in the long-run for crypto, it's a disaster. And it's going to take a long time for us to bring that sort of level of retail-based trust back in. Now, how might that happen? Well, we saw a DeFi somewhere, we saw an FT craze. Those kind of things
may pull retail investors back in and that's how you'll end up with them at the ball market. But everyone likes to think that next time we'll be different. There will always be people trying to do this kind of thing, borrowing from Peter to pay Paul and then back to Peter and it's happened in much more regulated environments at the past
It just happens less over time, as regulation becomes more important. So I think crypto will probably splinter in some ways into a purely decentralized, like decentralized, maxi kind of world where things like permissionlessness and trustlessness become more and more important. That will carry a lot of weight for
a small section of the market. But over time, I think things like regulated defy will become extremely important. It's something we're interested in. It's something that we know that the institutions we speak to are interested in. Defy solves a lot of these problems, but it also creates many
So, going back to what we said earlier about a cobo presentation tomorrow to the Nordic blockchain conference, the challenges for defy are things like self-custody, wallet management, recovery of private keys and things like that. These are all really big problems.
while we love to push people towards a world where they understand not your keys, not your crypto, etc. Until we get to the point where most people are comfortable managing their own keys or we have services in place that could do that in a way where they can lose part of a private key or they don't even need a private key that uses something else, they use it kind of too fast
with education. Whatever it is, we won't move to a defy world without solving those problems. So people use centralized exchanges because they're fast, because they're convenient, and because they seem to be safe. But a normally based solution for defy
is just as fast as centralized exchange. The convenient element, this is where you start looking at the partnerships, this is where you start thinking about what tools are available to make account management better and how can we make it safer? Well, this is where regulation will play a big part.
For us, it completely justifies the narrative we've been pushing for a long time, but people will always go for the convenient option over the more complicated, safer option, until things like this take the first one away from them.
We'll never reach an industry where there are no sams out there. But over time, I think retail investors will learn to spot the difference, or at least we can make it so that it's obvious to us, or to people that know about crypto, where they should be putting their cash.
actually a more important point potentially built into the question, which was talking about how Ethereum layer 1 secures an army layer 2. So this will be familiar I think for most people in the call, but it's worth a quick refresh about how it works. So when you deposit your funds into an army, you move them from one address to another
on the Ethereum layer 1. So everyone's funds end up in one pooled smart contract. It's known as the client fund. It has a crazy name on Nome 2 because something like "Oh, two splash proxy, which will be fixed for Nome 3. We'll go back to calling it a client fund, but basically everyone's funds are pooled."
We then credit you with a balance on the Nami layer too and you can make transactions. So all those transactions should open our own block explorer. It is possible for other block explorers to integrate with Nami's backend services to see those transactions. But the most important thing is every time there's a transaction on our network there's a receipt.
that receipt is your ticket to claim your funds back on the layer 1. So the receipt-based system is really important. If the person who, the operator of the network or operators of the network start doing something that's wrong or fraudulent, there is a receipt, there's proof in the formal disc receipt that something's gone wrong.
But if we assume that that's not the case, what happens next is simple. When you want to withdraw from NAMI, you simply use your receipt as evidence as proof that you should be able to take funds out of the collective part of the pooled contract on the low wall. So the Ethereum
layer 1 secures the NAMI layer 2 because if something goes wrong on the NAMI layer 2 we can use the smart contracts on the layer 1 to demonstrate that there's been fraud to pause the protocol to do things that secure the funds of people that have them in this pool contract.
I advise anybody who's really interested in this to read the white paper, it's quite difficult to explain this in a comprehensive way on a community call like this, but effectively the answer is that the layer one provides security oversight during deposits, during withdrawals and during potential times of any fraud.
side of that, the transactions are the way to a quicker, they're cheaper than more predictable in terms of cost, they have instant finality and they have very low latency, all things you don't get on the layer one, so that's why we abstract from one layer to another. I hope Boris that was clear, it's quite a long-winded explanation. It is very
clear but indeed very low. Alright we were getting to the end of it but I'm worried. Yes, just very quickly. I've got a call happening in three minutes so I'm going to have to go and I need to drag John with me. Apologies for the
for the for the for the abrupt one, but, um, and also I'm living in three hours, so I still have to pack and grab a bite and something. So I'm so sorry guys, that we need to get it short-lake. So one last very question and then, and then we wrap it up. Yeah. Sorry. Yes. Where are you going to?
So I think it's better to ask the one of Quavin, which is another central bank. This one actually building on NAMI, do you expect this to be the public information as soon as the contract is signed? Will it be worked on a secretly for a period?
I did not hear any of that. Just simply the next bank which you're gonna work with which you talked about a bit earlier in the talk and the call is gonna be
credit for a long time or is it going to be signed and yeah, talked about the on-community calls for example. The answer is we don't know. Okay.
Well, then that's it. I guess. Good stuff. Well, thanks, Boris. Thanks for each year. Thanks everyone. As always, it's always a pleasure. If people do have other questions, by the way, they add on to the Discord. I'll try and answer them.
the moment later on, I'm on my own way. Oh, this call. So apologies for wrapping up a little bit quickly at the end of the call, but thanks again, everyone. - Good guys. - Thank you guys. - Bye. - Bye.