accommodate and get used to how the young generation the young people play the games in
general right so you may need to you may need to skip the long tutorial you may have to keep them
engaged and getting the fun part in a very short time period while also on the other side you still
have to provide the long tail content iteration potential for people to spend tens or hundreds
of hours in your game which is a very hard balance in my opinion right i think that's the problem of
the whole gaming industry with that said sorry it's a little bit long-winded as a contest i think
for the game developers coming into web 3 i don't think web 3 is a silver bullet to save those people
who can't succeed in the traditional web 2 area web 3 is not making that better web 3 is making that
even worse even more difficult it's because it's not something while raising money for those people
for those investors who don't understand gaming may be easier but it's not true right i think web 3
users and gamers in general are even more picky it requires you to not only understand how to build
game products how to provide fun experience but also understand how web 3 works what type of value
web 3 would be able to bring over there that further level up the bar for the game to be successful here
in web 3 so along the way in the past two years we navigated a lot of difficulties learned a lot of
lessons but i think the key part is that for the game developer you firstly you have to be respectful
about how the industry works how to organically integrated web 3 and gaming together and two is
that i think it requires the development operation to be even more agile than the traditional game
builders and three is that i think live ops is something that requires the understanding of not only
the content but also the market and sentiment um to make that agile and flexible enough to ship the
good experience in the right timing yeah timing certainly seems to be important because uh you
know in this industry something is uh cold and the next day it's extremely hot and that's just kind of
the way yeah that seems to work um but i'd love to like double click on a couple of things that you
mentioned you know one you know where do you kind of see most games like making mistakes that are
costing them on user acquisition and community longevity and then you you know you mentioned
attention span you know is that like one of the keys to making a game sticky is kind of solving that
riddle um like how do you kind of make it a game sticky for the long term versus just a flash in the
pan like you were talking about yeah so i'll answer the second question first and then talk about the
mistakes right so i think the attention span is the reality right it's it's a fact so um i think
changing people's habit is extremely hard um try to get used to it accommodate that and then provide
the right experience at the right time definitely it matters a lot so with that said i think the
stickiness requires a different type of mind mindset from a game developer or publisher perspective
in general again this is not about web 2 or web 3 right i think that's a general problem of gaming
so that means that keeping keeping people feel sticky about a game experience require
uh the game builder and publisher to basically thrive at every single stage right so at the
beginning from the visual from how it looks like you have to make it attractive enough for people who
wants to bother their time stop a little bit and try out the game after see how it looks like and then
along the way when they are playing the game they need to get the fun part as soon as possible so
they feel that oh this is worth my time uh so i may play that further for another couple of minutes or even
hours then opening my tick tock also right and also along the way when they are playing the game
how that's being reflected on their social experience identity building progressing and
achievement feeding etc is a part to require the game developer to think more about the we call that
live ops live operation um so i think only being good at one part of that good at visual good at only
gameplay is definitely not enough anymore right so i think that's that's what's being changed right now
that's a key part for the failure of the people that we saw uh if we are looking at web 3 right i think
they are there's different well there's one way to be successful there's different ways so many
different ways to fail a project i think the way that i saw people fail there is they either stuck in
the traditional um traditional mindset of thinking about game development and publishing in web 2 or
they take their own stance to assume how web 3 works but ignore how quickly it's being changed from
the community and the user and partner side right so those people who don't spend enough time to
understand uh web 2 and web 3 and how that's been organically integrated in my opinion are the key
reason that fail right so i'll quickly give an example right so the the key challenges the most difficult
part of the uh of fear of the game development and operation in web 3 is about live operation right
live operation means that put it this way if it's a one-off chip game i think in web 3 it's really hard
to survive because the content is going to be consumed very quickly no matter how heavy the content is
and then if it's like a live ops game meaning it's like valorant league of legends also it requires the
content to be constantly iterated to provide a new experience for people to come back and engage uh as
much as possible then that means that you have to match that together with how the market is changing
while also being able to plan the content in the right way right so for the game development for new
content new skin new campaign usually it takes months um to plan in advance about how to build up the
pipeline how to keep the developers artists engineering etc being lined up to build something
for halloween or christmas but you will never be able to predict where the market is is that going
to be super hyped or is it going to be tumble if the market is tumble but my content is ready should i
ship or should i not ship vice versa right i think that's that's going to be the key part without enough
understanding of the audience and the market i think it's very easy to fail from a traditional game
dealer person yeah i couldn't agree more man i mean this industry one moves in the speed of light and
like you're talking about predicting where the market is going to be throughout the year that is a very
tricky task to successfully do um so couldn't agree more there um let's shift the conversation back more
to about you know what moon veil is doing and then you know the ag layer as well um how will connection
to the ag layer level up the moon veil ecosystem and then what does ecological identity mean for gamers
yeah so i think ag layer is uh resolving the key problem of how we unify the liquidity of the
market in general in a scalable and a secured way uh i think that's a long-term vision right so uh
there's two things to go into a little bit details about that number one is uh why that matters for the
unified liquidity and and why that matters to people i think in the end for gaming projects and ecosystem
etc i think the key part for web 3 that we see the value from there to brought to the gaming industry
is that that's been further help to validate the value of people in general right so uh i'll take
myself as an example i'm a core very hardcore gamer so i spent for example elden ring i spent 300 hours on
ps4 elden ring i got the platinum achievement finish everything and at some point uh when i moved that to
steam i have to start everything from scratch because the data is not being interoperable or
transferable from ps ecosystem playstation ecosystem to steam ecosystem right no matter how good i am
over there i have to start over from scratch uh vice versa right so i used to be a starcraft one
competitive player but today if there's an rts game who wants to find the old competitive gamer back
to 15 20 years ago there's no evidence to showcase that i used to be there because the publisher
no longer published the game locally in the region and uh it's hard to find the id along the
achievement around that time together with who i am today right those things because it's not being
trackable because it's being blocked by the monopolies and the giants in the industry it's not friendly for
people for gamers like me um i think in the end for games and gamers i think your ideal world it should
be a meritocracy approach when i'm saying meritocracy approach means if i'm a gamer
i want to play the game in this platform or that platform or those ecosystem etc it should not be
blocked by an ecosystem only because that they want to keep the mode for themselves blocking other
ecosystem to coach their users then that means that for me it's not even possible for me to transfer my
assets behavior achievement from one to the other and vice versa right so for developers if i would like
to if i have a good game i would like to retain sorry acquire and retain the high quality gamers
from some other ecosystem or games that has been proved right now because it's being prioritized as
the core business from their sake it's impossible for me to get access to the data to understand who
those people are but this should not be how gaming works in general right in the end i think games again
should be a meritocracy approach that the gamers and game developers should always be able to obsess to
the best people or best counterparty whenever they want the way that a game stand out is not because
i'm building the unfair advantage compared with other people it's because my game is fun that's the only
reason that gamer will retain my ecosystem longer i think that's where i see aggregation layer is going to
be able to be able to bring is that right now i think the gamers experience especially in web 3
in web 2 it's the same is being very fragmented right so for the achievement the identity you've been
building extra in one ecosystem one chain it's so hard to transfer or change to the other one that as a
gamer right think about how many chains um of the history that you have to keep to make you feel that oh i can get
used to the web 3 gaming today um so that's where i saw the aggregation layer is bringing the core
value there to make the gamers experience being unified among different chains different ecosystem
to highlight who are you why your identity matter um the second question is ecological identity right so
that's the part that we saw the long-term strategic vision of polygon i don't think that's an easy thing
i understand right now it's still at relatively early or middle stage of the product production
iteration of the cdk and aggregation layer but i think we would always try to find a partner who
focuses on the long-term strategic right and maybe difficult thing that can build that can make the
ecosystem can make the industry to the next level right so for the ecological identity is that we saw the
vision from polygon we would we want to be at least in the gaming sector in general we want to
embody that vision to make that real to make that true as experience for the users for the gamers
that's part of the reason why we escalated our brand and strategy from a pure gaming studio back in
the days to an ecosystem as where we are today is that not that many people in the industry are literally
building the ecological identity with real application scenario that can make people feel they belong there
there are a lot of people building platform or ecosystem but they are lacking products there are
people building products but they don't highlight on how to make people feel their belonging of this
ecosystem of this experience to make that sustainable right so we feel grateful and lucky that we have a
strong team with good experience from the gaming industry and web3 together with polygon support that enable us to
have the potential to build up the ecosystem highlighting on the ecological identity to validate the
gamers behavior like who are you where you are today what's the best way you can contribute to the
ecosystem are you a hardcore gamer who can spend time or if you want to spend or if you want to provide
the constructive feedback all those behavior of contribution should be respected embraced and compensated if
they can help the ecosystem to go much further to the next level 100 and you know really appreciate
that breakdown and um you know we have a few more questions here and then also uh the audience has
questions feel free to drop them in the comment section and i will ask moonville as well um maybe
like diving a little bit deeper into the polygon relationship you know what has your experience been
like working in polygon so far and then maybe like why build with polygon cdk like i know you mentioned a few
uh things before about the ag layer but just be curious about just hearing from your perspective
yeah uh that's a great question so um i think we also took as what i mentioned the difficult approach
instead of uh setting nft raising a lot of money at the end of the bull market in the last cycle
we actually started as a pretty bad timing so we started the company with myself and a few core members
2022 uh that was right after lunar crash right before ftx 4l so we feel lucky we were able to
raise money to start building but all the way down here until today it's never been easy so we got in
touch with polygon around mid last year uh and around that time we started to get a better understanding
of each other try to discuss about the future collaboration when i was still at our early stage
that we heads down working on the products for nearly a year already but we haven't started building
the community at that time i think the community side was like a few thousand ish so we saw that type
of relationship is a trust building process for nearly a year so far and it's constantly validating
each other as a good partner along the way right so we appreciate the trust that polygon gave us
when we were super small with only a small community and had nothing no traction at all
to showcase the industry well from our side we kept constantly evaluating what that means
about aggregation layer about cdk why the tech stack is adding value in the long term for us to see the
not only the fundamental but also the traction being built up in front of each other for nearly a year
right so so far i think polygon is providing a lot of support from technology marketing leadership
endorsement um that i have nothing to complain about uh and i definitely look forward to what's
going to happen in the future so why polygon i think that's uh that's a part that i elaborated a
little bit to put more context on there right is that i think the way we are looking at who we are
working with we actually spend a lot of time talking to different ecosystem won't point out the name
different this ecosystem different l1 l2 in the end i think we would prefer to consider about that
based on different criteria um number one is that um i'm not necessarily have to go to the most hyped
or one l2 or ecosystem that we work with but i want to make sure that from our evaluation due diligence
the tech stack is um being stable enough there right at least someone who navigated the full cycle
uh being going through the challenges from the hackers but at least i feel comfortable it's not going
to be done it's not going to be hacked someday that we feel the tech itself is strong that's
number one makes that scalable and secure enough number two is that we have to buy in the vision and
strategy to make sure that's not something necessarily easy but it must be something that
could be beneficial for the whole industry that can bring that to the next level if it works
and if we believe in that and believe in the tech capability we would like to take the risk to
co-build that together to some extent to see how that's going to be thrived one day to bring that
to the next level that's number two and number three is we want to see how much support that we can get
from there to build up the synergy with us right at some point we will be able to embody the vision
and strategy to showcase how that works but that require those people who believe in our vision our
strategy moon wheels approach which is quite differentiated from other ecosystem or products
and so far i think based on those criteria i feel that that polygon provided definitely enough
support for us to make us where we are today that's awesome and again shout out yourselves for
doing incredible work and shout out polygon for supporting people that deserve to be supported right
i think there's a lot of great organizations and projects and games that just don't have the uh
the support to to get to where they need to be and look what happens when you support the real ones
look at how moon veils is doing and what they've done in the industry so far so that's great to see
um i do want to ask you a little bit about astra arc you know mobile gaming seems hot right now what
are your thoughts on how web 3 and mobile gaming will intersect and then maybe you know we'd love to
hear a little bit about bushwhack as well yeah so um the way that we see our products right is that as
an ecosystem we do have an in-house products that we want to showcase as the flagship games or the
potential benchmark that how good the gameplay could be to make a fun experience as a fundamental
right so that's always a cool part of our ecosystem uh so after our bushwhack extra are two of our
signature game we are shipping that we are highlighting those are aka mid-core games that we
are highlighting on the casual core experience meaning that we want the game depth to be there when
people play the game they can easily feel the fun part the interactive and the engaging part of the
gameplay and also feel the depth of the gameplay and often the strategy that they want to spend more
time to explore right so that's the depth of the game over there which is going to be deeper than
the aka traditional hype like super hyper casual game etc um so people will feel that oh the gameplay
itself is fun for me to think about that as tens of hours or hundreds of hours gameplay that i want to
spend my time on the other side we want that to be as flexible accessible as possible so some of the
rules for both of the game is that we want that to be easily accessed so mobile first um and also per
game is always like five to seven minutes maximum that people can feel that this is the game i can play
anytime anywhere without being committing too much about my time and where i play and what type of gear that
i have to guarantee my experience so that's the uh philosophy that we have different people have
their own expertise and know-how on different genre of the games and that's where we play basically
um so um on that on on that side i think for the game that we have astral arc is more like a
relatively benchmarkable gameplay so it's um strategy game or more like a tower defense pvp game
that we are highlighting the out of the game deck building experience for you to think about the
diversified strategy what what do you want to highlight to build up your deck technically
with one champion five soldiers each with different skills and synergies etc and also in game is more
like a mergeable tower defense game so um i'm on the other side you i'm on one side you're on the other
side we are defending whoever can stay longer to defend the minions attacking us whoever wins right so
it looks very easy as a tap tap game but the core strategy part is the outside of the game deck
building together with the in-game uh layout optimization for you to either make your defense
more effective or make your opponent defense more ineffective by trolling your opponent etc in the
end that you can win that's a tower defense game that we have i think the core is more of a strategy
tcg game with the in-game layout optimization over there um bushwhack is to be honest is a more bold
approach right so um i think for us we have a sense but it is really really hard to say how large is
the addressable market of the genre and who are our comparables etc because this is the gameplay that we
actually haven't seen in the traditional web 2 area so very innovative in my in my opinion so it's a
stealth battle royale stealth spot battle royale means that uh it's kind of a typical battle royale
concept that 10 people are fighting against each other last people standing will win and there's
some extraction element there you can bring treasury out of the game to maximize your return from the
game but the key part is that there's a lot of grass on the map right so when you're moving slowly
you are invisible nobody can see you if you are moving too fast or if you got exposed fighting
against each other people will see you people will know where you are so they can assessing you
ambush you so the way that we think about the gameplay right now is that we actually want the
game to feel that that it looks like an action game but we don't encourage fighting right if you
choose to fight that means that you are proactively exposing yourself the whole point of the gameplay is
that try to hide as much as possible don't expose and whenever you want to assess someone or make
action it's always a cost that you pay right does it worth it are you able to kill other people at
once and then hide again and try to do with other people or otherwise you might expose yourself at
high risk so it's actually more of a strategy game from a mindset perspective instead of an action game
um we have never seen this type of gameplay pushing the styles assassin part to that extreme there might
be some element from broadstar from supercell or some people see that as a uh metal gear phantom a
little bit but we have never seen this type of game pushing that element to that extreme right so
from the feedback we got from the traditional game designer and also some quick play tests in brazil
etc we saw huge potential over there that even without web3 element it could potentially be a blockbuster
right so we feel super excited about this game as well that's awesome man and those both sound
really interesting and again even the name of them you know bushwhack and astro arc you guys are
you guys uh did did well there um i appreciate it um a a and b so i haven't got a c yet so
i'm sure the c i'm sure the c is coming um well look man the last question that we have for you
40 minutes has already flown by um you know q4 is here apparently that's when the excitement begins you
know what is moonvale looking forward to for the rest of this year then i have to ask you to look
into your crystal ball for 2025 you know how do you see next year panning out for our industry
uh yeah let's talk about industry and uh sorry so i think for the industry i'm super bullish on
gaming right so i always feel gaming is the best scenario best application scenario for web3
because the reason that one visually it looks more straightforward and pretty cool potentially
and two is that i think it's by default content iteration is very fast so it's easier for people
to find different type of content every single week every single month that other application cannot
provide and three is that i think for the games especially the um game theories among people is
provide is kind of by default naturally correlated with the web3's uh game theory fundamental that we see
it's uh it's good for traders it's good it's good for people who want to get rewards from there by
standing out so i always feel that gaming is the best part to be correlated with with web3 integrating
into web3 uh it's only about the people's capability issue in the past but i feel bullish that with for
example off the grid and also a lot of other awesome founders join for us together the bar of the
industry is going to be significantly level up rose so i feel super bullish about gaming next year
um and for our site from moonville uh keep cooking uh keep building i'm kidding yeah so um i think good
thing is that we um spend a lot of time iterating the product the strategy and also building along the
way by learning the lessons so far i think that right now we are on the right track to focus on the
product while also in the same time providing uh holistic multi-dimensional experience on operation and
infrastructure to enable the user experience gamer experience um and with the products operation being
further iterated we only see the experience will be further enriched on different level right not only
on the gameplay level but also from the operation and the infrastructure it's enabling us to be ready
to stand out as stand out as a complete ecosystem than previously more as a studio so there would be not
only the products going to be shipped soon so we got about six to seven games either ready to play test
or ready to ship uh but also we got the operation uh with the games data being aggregated that kind of
enabled us empower us to work on a lot of interoperable partnership and operation with other ecosystem
with other community in the same time and also the testnet is going to be launched very soon so we will get
ourselves ready to embrace the third parties coming in as our ally super excited about what's going to
happen in 2025 that we can't wait to share a lot of good stuff with you guys so there would be more
awesome content coming in uh well starting from tomorrow uh and then more and more in the next few
weeks and months beautiful and the last question i have is where can people learn more about the node
sale is it the twitter is it discord you know is it your personal page like where should they go to maybe
stay informed on what's going on yeah so i would suggest i think twitter and also website are the two
go-to places that can get a thorough understanding of what that means how the rule works etc um and i
always highly recommend people signing up into mobile ecosystem during our discord that's where the
discussion is happening every day every hour uh and we are super responsive right so myself and also
my team members literally are spending a lot of time like hours per day talking to the community
on discord etc to make that engaging and also we are at the front line to understand the feedback
and the input from the community so i think that's uh i would say go back to the question right website
discord twitter are the best place to understand how to know sales works and also the best way to get
in touch with us directly we have mod but my team myself extra are spending a lot of time there
what you're talking about what you're saying what you're complaining i will see that and i will
definitely get back to you outstanding well look man i appreciate you joining us it was awesome to
learn about more what you guys are doing folks make sure you follow moonvale make sure you pay
attention to the node sale and the games that they're making there's a lot of stuff that's going down in
their ecosystem and yeah just really appreciate the conversation awesome thank you very much alan
appreciate it all right guys enjoy the rest of your day and we'll be talking to you guys soon
until next time peace all right talk soon