Projects
![]()
No projects found
Investors
New
DAO Treasuries
DATs
Lend / Borrow APRs
Chains
Categories
Spaces
most beautiful woman in the world AMA
Recorded: June 24, 2025 Duration: 1:13:39Space Recording
Short Summary
In a candid discussion, musicians explore the challenges of launching new projects in the music industry, the impact of AI on creativity, and the need for financial backing in a competitive landscape. The conversation reflects broader trends in both music and crypto, emphasizing the importance of innovation and adaptability.
Full Transcription
Music
Music
Music
Music
Music
Music Music Thank you. Hello? Hello Swarajit.
Hello Zintani, how are you?
How do I pronounce your name?
You're pretty close, Swarajit.
Swarajit, how are you on this fine Tuesday evening?
It's not too bad, yeah. I think it's just gone Wednesday for me, yeah.
17 past midnight here. So, yeah, I'm good.
How was your... What time is it now?
It is 7pm. It's good.
I just moved to New York.
I have angered the New Yorkians with my boxes.
And they called me immediately angry.
As I've noticed is like normal here.
They call me and they're like, you have boxes down here.
And if you don't get rid of them, we're going to throw them away.
And I was like, that's fine.
I didn't know I had boxes.
Thank you for telling me.
So now I'm just opening them.
Where have you moved there from?
I was in Colorado.
Yeah, I went to Colorado because I was sick of LA but then I went to Colorado and
I went through the mountains and the trees and stuff but then I missed the city because nothing
happens in Colorado ever so I'm back to a city what what's the plan like so is it for work because i know you're a musician aren't you
yeah i had like three to four jobs lined up for new york and then all of them fell through
and um so now i'm just like chilling here uh i'm probably just gonna make music until
i figure out what i'm gonna do my life tends to be like that though like
nothing is ever set in stone and i sort of just fall into into life it's not not new for me
that's cool that's cool um where are you i'm in um i'm in the uk so yeah Not as skilled as you
I mean I wish I could play music
But I didn't learn at a young enough age
And I think yeah it's just too late for that now
Oh yeah
I mean the neuroplasticity required to learn
It depends on the instrument man
Honestly depends on the instrument man honestly depends on the instrument
some of them are easier than others i'd say like piano is easier to get good at
um if you just want to be okay it's a pretty easy instrument to just like
get okay at but it's quite difficult to get really good at piano.
Yeah I tried starting piano like in my late 20s and I sort of got into it but
yeah I couldn't do something like a stringed instrument where you really
have to like be natural with your fingers like with your whatever is the fingering the chords and
stuff so yeah um but yeah i i think piano piano just the layout of piano just makes more sense
it's more intuitive yeah exactly yeah you're exactly right hello kingsley hello zingtani i don't know how to pronounce your name jack and hello suara jeets
hello you know another another thing about guitar though is also you you have to train
your fingers man i mean you need to develop calluses which is painful which like i'm just speaking it's not a big deal at all but
for beginners that is a big deal you have to walk around with like basically have to rip open your
sore fingers over and over and over again until they're hard enough to play which i think i think
it does deter people because it is painful i I remember when I first started doing it.
Yeah, that was enough.
That was enough to stop me from ever even picking up a guitar.
But yeah, I think I just prefer the sound of a piano as well.
It's just like much more pleasant somehow.
Oh, man, I love guitar for so many reasons.
I just, I'm okay at piano. Like I said, I can,
I've even composed songs on the piano, but only from, I'll like play one portion and I'll edit
in another portion I'm playing, but I, I'm just not interested in getting super good at it.
I love guitar way too much.
But yeah, that's what I don't remember if I answered what you said,
but I think that's actually what I'm just going to do is I'm just going to
write an album because I don't know what I'm doing.
So until I find another job,
I think I'm just going to chill here and make music.
I remember you shared a clip and it was some of your music but it was imposed super like
imposed on top of like some BBC wildlife documentary but I couldn't work out if that
was just something you did or if it was actually used by by the tv program no I made it it's kind
of sad because I don't even see the point really of like making an album
like i got super super good at something that's basically going to be null and void because ai
is just coming for our ass and anyone who says that ai isn't coming for our ass they're in denial
like any of the artists i'm sorry you're not going to be able to make better art when ai gets better
but yeah i yeah i made made that, the sound.
I don't know if you're talking about the spider or the rabbit.
Yeah, that was it, yeah.
The spider one, yeah.
Yeah, that's how I taught myself how to produce.
So as I would, I really like animals.
So I literally taught myself how to produce by asking twitter i'd be like here's a
frog a rabbit a blah blah blah blah blah like a list of animals choose one and i will make a song
inspired by that animal and then they vote and then i'd make a song that's how i taught myself
so when you say produce you mean like um video i'm not sure what producing means like
because producing videos separates the producing music isn't it but producing music i did not make
the video uh okay right yeah but yeah the video was bbc something you were right yeah yeah but i thought like is is imposing the music on top
is that like a that's probably not not all that difficult then well producing music is complex
it's um like i can say sorry i meant i meant like putting the music with the video. I don't know if that, I assume that's,
is that just clicking a button these days?
Well, I don't know which one you're talking,
you're talking about the spider?
The spider one, yeah.
Oh, I just edited it so that like,
it would be like little clips of that BBC thing
at different times of the song, yeah.
But not, I mean, that was lazy.
I mean, even the um there's a
I haven't posted much of my music on Twitter but there's like a gorillas slash Beatles song where
I mixed the gorillas and the Beatles I did like well I didn't mix them I did a cover of both of
them and then I produced them together and I had to I took the original music video for the gorillas but I had
to do a bit of editing there I had to slow it down to match the bpm of the the song I made
I remember that too I can't remember which songs you used um but yeah they're two of my favorite bands. And they're British.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Wait, the Gorillaz are British?
Yeah, yeah.
Damon Alban.
He's from Blur.
I mean, he works with, like, loads of international artists.
But, yeah, he's the lead creator.
He is so good, man.
He is so talented. Even the recent stuff he makes is so fucking
awesome i haven't heard any buzz about it his recent stuff is really good
i think yeah he's just he's genius like he's um maybe this generation's john lennon um
kind of thing like just being able to come up with,
just sort of think completely differently.
That's what geniuses do, isn't it?
Like they just think completely different to everyone else.
I forget the name of the guy in the Beatles, but he's the same way, man.
He was the one who introduced to modern music the idea of adding weird chords,
like odd chords or variations of chords,
which make, when you listen to the Beatles, it really bothers me.
Sometimes people will say that a popular thing is bad because it's popular,
but the Beatles were more popular because they were genius that
specifically the guy who did the chords i don't i don't know which guy that is but he um i mean
he made music interesting yeah exactly so um that's why i said like damon albert is probably
this um generation is john lennon um so john lennon john lennon and paul mccartney were the two
um lead writers for the beatles and um but they they always got they always put themselves down
as joint writers um and i think john lennon was the more experimental one so they he would do
like some weird weird stuff with like um looping tapes it was all done on tape back then and yeah
it's really like there's some really good documentaries about how they did it
and so yeah I think John Lennon was more experimental so if you look at the ones
basically it's almost always whoever did the lead vocals for each song they were probably the composer of that song
so something like um i am the walrus that's that's got like those weird chords that you
were talking about um and that's lennon so yeah i think he was the more experimental one whereas um
Whereas Paul McCartney, it was new for the time, but it wasn't like really experimental.
It was just a bit sort of building on top of what came the decade before.
So like the rock stuff that Elvis and people like that used to do.
that what used to do but yeah they're both geniuses to be honest yeah i mean that is the
But yeah, they're both geniuses, to be honest.
job of an artist is to um be as be normal enough that it can attain attention of the masses but
also also while maintaining that to be different enough to get a cult following so if you can if
you can do both of those things
if you can break the rules because there's always rules in modern if you break the rules too much
then your music is crazy and really no one likes it i mean you'll have like a couple cult following
whatever but you'll never be able to make enough money to support yourself so it's really it's
quite challenging to like uh follow the rules but also break them just enough
and the beatles did this beautifully i mean their music still is beautiful it's still nice to listen
to um which is difficult man you listen to older music you'll find it boring because it's just well
music now people think it's simpler but it's not it's basically we've figured out like
how to turn if you understand that music releases dopamine we've essentially figured out how to
get people addicted on like the most highly synthesized methamphetamine we possibly can
so a lot of like younger generations listening back to old music
will be very bored by it because it's not uh you know like people there was no auto-tune for
example so back then people were more tone deaf than they are now now kids these days are super
sensitive to if someone is out of key for example like uh they they will
be able to tell if you're out of key and so everyone's using autotune because it sounds bad
or it sounds off if you're not so in some ways music has gotten more uh like better more precise But then we're also
Losing
We're losing variation
On this quest to make like the most
Addictive music possible
Songs are getting shorter
And shorter the structure of a song
Is changing so that it
Keeps it interesting all the time
To suit the ADHD
You know
Gen Z and Gen Alpha, whatever.
So it's, that's sort of why I want to, I want to make an album because my career was basically like,
I was a ghost producer and I think if people knew who I produced for, they'd be very impressed.
But the thing with it is, it's embarrassing to me.
I don't want my name out.
At first, I felt like I was struggling against the industry to get my name on it.
But when I think about it more, it's like, dude, it has a big name on it and the songs are ass.
I hated working on those songs they're
boring they're simple they're i listen i don't listen to them i know i i helped make them but
i don't even know what the final product sounds like because they're i'm embarrassed by it
what so i was gonna, are they big names?
Are they songs we would have heard of?
Oh yeah, yeah.
I don't even know what the titles of the songs were.
I don't know what they titled them.
I don't know the lyrics they put on top of them
in all cases sometimes.
You have to understand
the music industry has layers
of people with tons
and tons of people.
And then you have like the artist at the top who usually doesn't make their own music. So you've got like I was at times a ghost producer for a ghost producer for a ghost producer.
Like literally like three rings down of people that aren't on the title.
And everyone thinks that these people are making their own music, they're not
there's tons of people working
on this stuff, so
yeah, but they're embarrassing because
there's basically like
it's weird because the music industry
wanted, I say
wanted because AI is
I think this is going to change, but
like, they want musical
geniuses, they want musical geniuses.
They want people who know the rules well enough to break them and still, I guess, maintain them.
But they put you basically they basically want Ph.D. musicians to make music for kindergartners.
That's what the music industry is now.
And it's gay.
And it's stupid.
And it's embarrassing.
And I hate it.
So I think I'm fine with no one knowing that I was on them.
Yeah, I mean, I don't know how old you are,
but when you get to, like, a certain age like me,
it's just a job. Like, people, if you get to like a certain age like me, it's just a job.
Like people, people, if you watch things like American Idol, X Factor, and you see these people going on there saying, oh, it's my it's my dream to be a pop star. And, you know, I've wanted to do it ever since I was a child.
And all I want to do is tour the world and record albums.
And really, they probably have no idea, like, how much work it is.
And it is just work.
And I'm sure they just sort of squeeze every drop that they can out of you,
these record companies, just to make all the profit.
You never sign with a record
label is bad news if you're getting an offer that is not a good thing they want something bad from
you it's like my motto unless sorry unless you're like a nepo baby i mean no label is gonna hand you
some uh your dreams for you that just never that does not happen way more
likely they're signing you into a deal because you are talented and they want to wipe out competition
that's way more common with labels but yeah it's regardless of this it is highly competitive because there's 50 people, you know, you, you, there are always like 50 people that are just
as talented, maybe more talented than you that will do it for cheaper or do it for next nothing
like 99% or I don't know. I don't want to guess, but a massive amount of musicians literally pay
people to listen to their music. They're not making a
dime. Most musicians are in the negative. So making money in the industry is extremely stressful
and extremely difficult. And you also have to be a people person. This is another thing I didn't
like. A lot of it is like people have to play chess with people so you have to be talented you have to
be good at what you do you have to be willing to take scraps to sign away your name sometimes blah
blah blah yeah i mean whatever that's the thing though it's it's so it's one of those jobs or
careers that's so romanticized that people want to do it before
they even know what they're getting into like um acting is another one you just want to be like a
famous superstar and you want all the perks that come with that but i mean maybe acting's more fun
i don't know but i don't have the the talent in any sort of artistic field or anything
really but also like the other the in this country in the UK football is is the other one that people
that kids really aspire to when they're when they're younger and that's that's pretty short. You retire from football in your 30s, probably.
But I guess you have to be really good, though,
because there really aren't that many teams
where you can earn a huge amount of money in 15 years.
So most people don't live that dream at all.
Yeah.
Also, it takes away the artistry man i
mean you have rules you need to follow you need to learn what is trending you basically just have
to follow the rules so they want someone who knows how to make intricate music but then they allot
you to not that it isn't intricate but they allot you to making boring music. Is the whole, like, there is no artistry, at least in the music I was working on.
Which is why I was embarrassed by it.
It's like, anytime I got artistic, too artistic, they shut it down.
Which is why, like, if I make an album album i'm not necessarily going for like money or anything
i just kind of want to i've never gotten to just make music that i want to make i have once but
i didn't market it maybe i'll market it this time or something let's just see
um but yeah there's no artistry and yeah, people think they want to be musicians, but then they run into what you're going to run into, which is like, there's all these douchebags that are like, they're musicians by hobby.
And they'll say things like, oh, well, it's not about the money for me. And it's like, well, then you're not that deep into music in the first place.
Because you need to pay your bills in order to make music all day.
So what are you fucking talking about?
Do you live with your parents?
If you live with your parents, you have parents to live with, then shut the fuck up.
You're not an adult.
You have to make money.
Or you can't make music.
So if you want to make music So if you want to make music
Then you have to make shitty music
That's the only way to do it
Unless you get lucky man
You know
Occasionally you have like
XXX or Kanye West
Or the Beatles or Alt-J
Who I would say
Make music
Interesting music that isn't just following the rules and
they get famous enough that they can you know they have the best of both worlds but
you're probably not gonna make it like that so yep tip for chat there's there's a payoff
to everything but it really does irk me. People try to talk about
music as if they know what they're talking about or give insight about it, and they really don't.
You mean they don't understand the process of making music or the industry?
the process of making music or the industry?
They don't understand anything that they're talking about.
When I say, you know, I'm annoyed that I can't make music
like artistic music, they'll say, yes, you can.
Yes, you can.
Just you don't do it for the right reasons.
You're thinking about money.
It's like, shut the fuck up.
I need to pay my bills, obviously.
If I can, you know, but that's the position i'm in now is like i can pay my bills so i can make music
interesting music so i think i'm going to do that
yeah that's a great position to be in um i don't know if ai will i mean you're saying it's definitely going to take over. Oh, yeah. Will it be able to do, like, the really artistic experimental stuff
that you kind of need a human brain to do?
I think that it will be able to do way more anything.
I already was competing with AI. I lost my biggest client to AI. And that's
when I realized, like, I knew it was coming a long time. But when I lost that client, I was like,
I need to pivot. I mean, this is over. Maybe it's still lagging. But like, sometimes I hear people
say, like, I want to be a musician. And I'm like, well, you're too late.
Stop.
It's over.
You want to be an AI musician?
Go ahead, figure that out.
But don't start like cranking around on a computer, figuring out how to produce stuff.
It's not going to be useful in a couple years.
It's going to be completely null and void.
No doubt. years it's going to be completely null and void no doubt so i think people are attracted to this
space because you're the most beautiful woman in the world yes what's that been like um it's great truly i've got no complaints um jenny's here i recognize jenny from um hitchlap space um the second most beautiful
woman in the world well i'm just gonna say going by a picture it's uh it's pretty close. She might be. I don't know. She can't be the first, though, if Jenny's listening.
Are you here to challenge me or what?
Is this going to be a problem, Jenny?
I think Jenny should come up.
I think, yes.
And fight a corner.
Do we have a challenger?
Oh, thumbs down.
Okay.
No, okay.
Hello?
Jenny?
Jenny?
Are you here to steal my throne?
Is she
bugged?
She had
Jenny had her hand raised but she's still showing
as a listener so I don't know
She's a speaker for me
Oh now she's a listener again I don't know. She's a speaker for me. Oh, now she's listener again.
I don't know.
Oh, she dropped.
Yeah, I'm over the whole industry thing.
That was a weird phase, but I didn't...
Yeah, I think I'm over that meme so in terms of um these people you wrote for
are you are you not allowed to tell us like yeah no they i don't know what they do i just know
they're scary yeah they'd be really upset because some of these guys guys and girls um don't even know that a woman was working on their stuff like i said there were
are some cases where um like it would be a big it would be a big thing if it came out that these
people especially for the men who who a part of their marketing a part of their whatever is that
they make their own music.
If it came out that a woman did, this would be humiliating for them,
and they would absolutely say it isn't true.
And also, they don't always know, because like I said,
I've been a ghost producer for a ghost producer for a ghost producer.
The people at the top don't always know that the ghost producer
paid someone else to do what they're supposed to do.
So this has gone down the line to me.
So, yes, if I went around saying I made music for this person and that got to their ears,
it would be interesting to the media for like an expose, first of all.
And it would also be largely humiliating to their brand so it's a big no-no
i don't even tell my friends um who i'm who i've made music for
but i got up there i mean i got pretty up there i wasn't at the top top but i was pretty close
and johnny you are at the top I'm just gonna say you're yeah
and I'm I'm like an older sister in a way I think you're a badass I've heard you just be yourself
in spaces and hit slaps and I that's why I'm in here because I was like oh shit I like listening
to her you're fucking adorable and you're talented and I just it's exciting to hear a woman who's
just like herself and and you nobody can stop you. I know that sounds ass kissy,
but no, I really like powerful women when I see them. I am a mother. I'm not gay. I just think
that talented fucking chicks are cool. And I would never challenge you at all. I saw your videos
recently. One of my favorite was the dramatic one with the dog where you fell onto the ground and then the dog came over and it's like that had me rolling laughing and you are
adorable so no i'm not dumb my days are over and i'm totally a happy woman to celebrate women
whose time is now so i that's that's me
jenny i think i would have preferred a challenge i mean I know you would have but then I would have just
beat you right here and I can't do that right now I'm fucking with you I'm totally kidding I respect
your strong like people can't beat me either and my favorite person is a person who says the same
shit because then it's no you know you're dealing with somebody who has some substance because I I
don't want you to challenge me.
Because I'm too old.
We're not in the same category.
But you can't anymore.
I'm sorry.
But I'm off limits.
You've got to kid up the young chicks.
I will help you beat their ass.
How's that?
I will help you take them down.
I'll be on your teams in Tawny.
I can do that. I can do that. As long as you have to miss some shit when i need it well that's
what i'm thinking is like the only thing stopping me from being the most beautiful woman in the
world is all the women more beautiful than me so i just need to get rid of them and then i can i can
maintain my position just tell them that's the deal. Then ask them, are you the most beautiful woman?
And then they're never going to say yes.
So just, and say it with confidence and then be like, prove it.
Say it with a sword in my hand or something like vaguely threatening, like a big stick.
But yeah, like vaguely threatening, but not, that wouldn't incriminate me.
I do want to ask you a really quick question.
And this might be to make me, you might hate me for this question,
but that's okay.
I think that'll fuel your desire to answer it.
Sia, in my mind, I was shocked when I found out the number of songs
that she had created for so many artists.
And, you know, when she came out, she did this weird thing with her hair
and didn't want to show her face.
And it was like her looks or something that kept her.
But I thought, I don't know a lot about her but I really did like the power behind some
of her music so is that something that is kind of like that happens where you find out who writes
these freaking songs and you're like whoa you know and Sia was she wrote a lot well she's um she's on the top so her name is on it um so she's like got that set up to where
she's happy with it she wants to give those songs to other artists and then she keeps the songs
that she wants to keep for herself or sometimes she might be uh i'm sure to get to her position
she had to give away songs that she didn't want to um I could have had my own career doing this, but I never
gave up the songs I wanted to give up. So I could have had my name on stuff, but I was kind of like,
you know, it's weird because I have songs that were approved by Capitol Records where I wrote
the whole thing, sang the whole thing, produced the whole thing. I'm thinking about one in particular,
but there's a couple where Capitol Records wanted to release it. But the only caveat is I needed to
be the feature on my own song. I did not do this. And sometimes I look back and I'm like, was that
a mistake? Because they do that to you, man. If you're new to the industry and you wrote something magnificent um sort of like a
gateway into the industry is you have to you have to do something you always have to do something
ditty party you're gonna be the second and you're number one like are you kidding me yeah yeah yeah
the what really pissed me off too is like the guy who wanted to take credit for it mind you
i wrote it i sang it i produced it i made the whole thing
this guy comes in throws on a baseline and he says yeah uh he takes it to capital records
uh capital records approves it he comes back and he says yes perfect now sign this document
and i look at the document it says i would be a feature on it. And I say, why am I a feature?
He said, feature means you're the star.
You're the star of the song.
And I was like, do you think I'm fucking stupid?
What do you mean the feature?
You put on a baseline, dude.
Like, I can take out the baseline and tell Capitol Records that I'll just do it without you.
I don't need you.
They like the song. Well, I made made the whole thing you put on a baseline um well obviously you know and this is where the
threats come in and you realize like oh these people are crazy they'll blacklist you blah blah
blah and he did threaten um he threatened in a way that was like, I think the sentence he used, which was so funny,
he framed it as, you know, I think you're a really talented musician,
and it would be such a shame to see if other artists in the industry and other people here didn't want to work with you anymore.
He tried pulling that shit on me.
Then he had lawyers emailing me about how he has intellectual property rights over my
song that I made. So like they do this in like, if you have nothing going for you, you don't have
a record deal. You don't have any, anything. They'll, they'll push you into stuff like that.
If you don't accept it, you don't get in. That's it. But I didn't accept it because fuck him.
I'd rather no one hears my song. And it is a great song.
It's a good song.
But I'd rather no one hears it than to say I didn't make it.
I made the whole thing.
It's mine.
But it is weird.
I do have two.
No, three, four.
I think I have four.
Four songs that major record labels really liked,
like personal songs that I made for myself that I sang.
You know,
there's that apartment you're in and you're walking out on the,
on the roof of it.
I know that sounds awkward.
Like you're like,
why the fuck do you know this?
But look,
I'm looking through my feed and I see talent when I see it.
When I used to do fashion like stuff.
So I've,
you know,
clothes models and I just have an eye for
things a little bit, right? There could be a fucking music video that you could actually film
probably on your own. Given the ability to edit video now, you already have done it a whole bunch
when it comes like the bug stuff. That's fucking hilarious. You have a tweak about you. I don't
know if that, what that word means in this today's age, but there is a twist.
Like, I like the pixies, okay? I also like a whole bunch of other stuff, but there is an artist sort
of a flair that you have that, I mean, your hair is fucking gorgeous, so that's in itself. You don't
have to wear a bunch of fake shit, and you could film something that I think, just like, and I know
Tom McDonald's fucking controversial as fuck, but whatever, that you can actually independently, independent artists are kind of really backing each other a little bit more than they used to.
You can blow through Fuck Capital Records and do it yourself.
You're young.
You can still be wherever the fuck you want to be whenever you want to be there.
I do, while I'm here, because these other job offers, because I want to pivot out of music, because the music industry is just shit.
It's just not a good time to commit more to anything music.
It's just not good.
Basically, when AI takes over, what it's going to be is, it's already a people chess game, but it's going to be basically fully.
Like, are you in or are you out?
And talent isn't going to have anything to do with it anymore.
So if you're not in, you're fucked.
It will get even more nepo.
So, but I do just not to get exposure or anything.
Yeah, I am working on getting a, i have to get a license for a drone and i want to
make a video not to it wouldn't bother me if i'm sure it'll get like a couple hundred likes on
twitter and that's it um i don't it doesn't need to no dude i would just like to make it more than
that well i want to see it i really do and I'm just telling, I know I'm blowing smoke up there, but I tell you, there's talent
and then there's not talent.
And you have something about you that is absolutely fucking badass.
And I don't know.
I'm done with the compliments.
And I know you probably are very uncomfortable with that.
So I'm going to stop.
But, and I, and I just feel like at some point in time, I was going to tell you, I was going
to say it a while back and I had my hand up in Hitch's place for like a fucking hour.
And I was going to be like, Zantani, you fucking rock.
Because I know you're going to hate most and love few, but that doesn't mean you totally hate people.
But anyway, fucking rock on.
So, yeah, I have this argument with these like really big, because I do have some relationships with, like, these really big music people.
But I don't know how to define them.
So not just musicians,
but also, like, leaders in the industry.
And some of
these people have, like,
expressed to me that they think I'm a genius.
Okay? So that's a
point. So they acknowledge
to me, sort of, like,
I'm a musical genius. And so, you know, for example, Okay, so that's a So they acknowledge To be sort of like Musical genius For example
Maybe this
Now I would like you to listen
To, oh shit, did I lose
Connection? You're back
I'm back? Okay
So these guys said I'm a genius a musical genius i was
like thank you for acknowledging that now listen to my ideas i was like uh i think that modern art
is really straying from reality and we need a reality check as in like the idea for a music video that I had was you take this is going to sound intense
listen they whatever this is what I think um I wanted to take cadavers cadavers dead bodies
okay everyone shut up like Australians shut up stop this is my idea there's a reason for it and I want like a man and a woman
to tango dance on the body it doesn't necessarily have to be human but I think it would be better
if it's a human body maybe not necessarily jumping or like anything not anything disgustingly macabre
I want the point of it to be that the body is ignored, almost like it isn't
even there. The camera doesn't focus on it. It's, if anything, slightly out of focus, um, to signify
sort of what we do in, in our culture. Like my idea, it sounds disgusting and whatever, I get it,
whatever. But that's the whole point is like, do this now we dance on top of we have like
beautiful dresses and whatever and we dance on reality and pretend like it doesn't exist
and so that's why i was saying it's like this would be a really good idea for a music video
and i acknowledge like you know yeah this would cause a ruckus and whatever but then they look
at me and they're like you're fucking insane insane. They're like, you're insane.
And I'm sitting there like, did you not just say I was a genius?
Like, the fuck am I even doing here?
We sit here and we're writing music saying that the lights are so bright and we're having so much fun in the city.
Yeah, yeah, falling in love.
What do people know about falling in love these days?
No one's falling in love.
We have fucking Tinder and people choose yes or no no that like we're so disconnected from anything real and like after i had this experience i was like i'm
just fucking done like you they can't handle it would work not only would it be good it would be
art it would also work because it would piss a lot of people off,
which would make a lot of people watch it. So I, you know, it frustrated me that they say I'm a
genius, but then when I tell them my ideas, um, then I'm, I'm insane and I should be in an insane
asylum. Sorry for that ramble. But this is like why I'm sick of the industry. I'm done. Yeah,
I do want to make art. I do want to eventually make that music video. I don't have a song for
it, but I want that video to exist. And maybe I'll get myself into trouble, whatever. But
that would work. Or someone in here could steal it. It's a good idea.
No, no, they can't. I just heard it. So no.
Would you want real cadavers?
That might be the issue.
If you could get like really close to real cadavers,
it provokes an emotion.
And that's what art is supposed to do.
Just lottie gagging around the world,
that's half the reason we're in the position we're in.
And we are trampling on human beings on a daily basis.
And human beings are dying regularly
for people to be able to tango dance
and drink fucking whatever the fuck they want and do whatever they're doing. So provoking a human emotion to
tie people in, like, do you really care about humans or not? So I think it's beautiful,
but I just am going to warn you as a nurse, I've worked with cadavers. There's a big list of how
to get them. I'm sure maybe someone would donate their dead body if they happen to be alive now
and are potentially trying to die soon, but I, you know, or you could just do wax. I want it to be real.
I'd rather get in trouble. And well, this is a recorded space. And maybe I shouldn't say that.
But you know, like, I want it to be real. And one night, hang out in New York City, be ready,
girls ready in the tango desk, guys in the tux, you're walking around
Then just go through the scene really fast
If there's an accident and then there's your footage
That's what I'm saying
I know it would be disgusting
I've relayed this story a couple of times
And people have said, you know, there's legality issues
Blah, blah, blah
It's like, well, that's what an artist does
So I don't, you know, artists Real artists do shit like that I blah blah it's like well that's what an artist does so i i don't you know
artists real artists do shit like that i mean it was like this is a difference between like
making a justin bieber song and i'm not shitting on justin bieber he's actually very talented but
like um but it's like the difference between making a pop song we've heard a million times
people are sick of it people are sick of it there's no art
anymore everyone's calling themselves an artist no one's doing it art is supposed to be provocative
but but the point of the whole music video that i want to make is it's not macabre to be macabre
i'm not gonna have them like jumping on the head of the okay i'm not it the the point is to like
illustrate what we do the the body is out
of focus it's not focused on the dancers completely ignore it um yes it's it should be shocking uh
yes a dead body would look ugly i'm sure it would stink really bad whatever um the the dancers in
the scene can get over it i'll pay them to get over the smell or whatever.
But,
yeah,
I want to do that.
And,
fuck anyone who says no.
they,
I haven't seen anything like this.
I've seen macabre art to be macabre.
Like,
Ooh,
look at all this blood.
I'm so bloody.
I'm so,
I'm deathly.
I'm killing people.
it's not,
even that is fake. Even that is like a front. I'm, I'm rambling. Um, I, I don't know who was first.
I'm going to jump ahead of Australian cause he's a homie and I'm sure he'll be fine with it.
Um, and if he isn't, well, fuck're australian i'm american suck my dick so
uh whoa you had to go homo so quickly man what's up with that
uh no actually he's the reason why i came in here because i was like oh this sounds interesting
most beautiful moon in the world and i was like fuck it's clickbait. God damn it. So, no, I was just curious
because you were talking about music
and I spent over a decade DJing
and I couldn't really find your music.
So if you can't-
Have you seen Zantani?
This was not clickbait.
This is actually the truth.
So I'm not sure if you've not seen her.
I don't know.
No, hold on, hold on.
Let me get to that.
So first thing, music.
So can you put like your SoundCloud, MixCloud, whatever in the comments
so I can just listen to some of it because I'm kind of curious?
Yeah, I'll grab it.
I do want to give it – okay, yeah, go ahead.
I was just going to say, and then I did because you have your Instagram linked.
So I did check that out, and you are very pretty, so I'm not going to like, you then I did, because you have your Instagram linked. So I did check that out, and you are very pretty.
So I'm not going to, like, you know, beat you up about that.
The most beautiful woman in the world.
Yeah, well.
Well, it's not debatable.
Well, yeah.
I mean, it's hard to tell unless you meet in person.
Yeah.
So, you know.
But anyway, are you in Australia, or are you in the u.s or
i just moved to um to uh new york i just got here so i'm sitting on my terrace okay cool all right
um so have you mainly just in production or have you dj at all or i was a ghost producer
majority um i made this while knowing how to produce i do want to give a disclaimer i have
never marketed this or said hey like listen to this for a reason and the reason being that I'm protective
over my art.
Yeah, that's perfectly fine.
Yeah.
Here, I'll link it.
While you're doing that,
I apologize.
Go ahead.
I want to give an explanation, okay?
Okay, I want to make one Quick thing before you do that
The drone thing you don't need a license if you get
A mini so you don't have to
Go through all that bullshit as long as it's under
249 grams so just buy one of the
Minis you're going to be fine okay continue
The drone
No the type of drone I want
I need to get a license I need to get a license
For the drone I want to make to get a license i need to get a license for the drone
i want to make the music video it requires a drone legally or it requires a license uh the the
so i i pinned it to the top but the disclaimer i'm giving okay and the reason i don't want to
like market it is that it doesn't it it starts out sounding interesting, but when you read the lyrics, it's fucking stupid.
And then the lyrics get more interesting and more real, but the music sounds, I guess you'd say, I don't, I wouldn't say uglier, but less appealing on purpose.
Okay.
So I just want to say that.
But I did link like a little EP thing that I never marketed.
Majority of my career was making music in, I don't want to give genres,
in genres that I'm really not interested in.
Well, yeah.
You would not know that a Zintani song is a Zintani song.
If you listened to my SoundCloud and started understanding how I make music,
you wouldn't be able to spot it.
I was basically making music that a fucking cow could make
and getting a lot of money for it, which is stupid.
Yeah, there's definitely a pop aspect to music
where you kind of have to follow a certain formula for it to get popular.
Yeah, it's just technicals.
It's just following rules, very, very, very strict rules, following trends.
You're allowed to be a little interesting,
but you can't throw can't like throw in
like a major to a minor or like you you can't start getting crazy with it when you're dealing
with music that's meant to be marketed yeah because it needs that mass appeal and most people
don't understand music in general so well. Well, that's the job.
It needs to make mass appeal.
So when I insult this stuff, I'm not insulting, like,
I'm not saying that modern music is simple.
I don't mean that.
I just mean it's just technical.
There's, like, no artistry allowed.
You have to follow the rules or they're not going to take it.
Yeah, unless you create a genre or not even create a genre
because I think about Skrillex, right?
When Skrillex got big and Dubstep got really big,
I don't think he created the genre, but he kind of popularized it.
So then it's kind of like, oh, it's this new thing, you know?
Yeah, I said that earlier sometimes artists do start something new and they get away with it and they get the best of both
worlds yeah yeah it's gone to shit since then though i really felt like that whole that that
whole style itself when i first heard it it really shook me and i don't know that maybe it was before like 2009 maybe is when I really 2012 11 whatever
and time is weird for me but don't you think since then I would go try to find something that
had some I felt like it was going to open into a bigger genre and now it's just fluff you know I
can't find the same yeah drops like I that are used to be you know there and quick question for
you Zantani I like Grimes I know I know I care. People think that's weird, but I don't give a fuck what people think about
my music taste. I think she's badass and I like her artistry. She's always been a little funky.
She's got a little lisp and she's just neat. And I like whatever. I use her videos behind like my
fuck around art. And my question to you is if I found some stuff on yours, would that be something
I could do? I don't, i'm not monetized i make no money
whatsoever i just put music behind everything i post and if i find music i like i usually do that
or i is that what would you think about that would i get hate mail or death threats maybe or what
for me yeah if i yeah i don't know where i am where so like i am planning on making an album a whole album here um but once i'm at that step
once i'm done with it then it'll become about like do i want to sign this over to someone or
whatever and then it just depends on that like uh so i don't know right now i don't have anything
to anything on my soundcloud you can have i don't give a shit. I don't have anything to anything on my SoundCloud. You can have, but I don't give a shit.
I totally,
I actually screen record parts of it.
It would go loop in with anything like I did AI or I do beach scenes and
animals and shit.
So that's,
I'll find a tune I liked.
It makes me have an emotion.
And then I apply that to like art,
you know,
my photography or whatever that I do.
Okay.
I'll follow a photographer.
Let's go.
That's what I do now is I do photography.
That's my creative thing um but yeah i followed
you on uh on here and yeah i'm gonna look forward to listening to your music and um i'm i couldn't
really get into producing because i'm more of an editor not not really a creator because i have
more logical kind of mindset um so that's why DJing is nice for me
because it's very pattern-based.
So yeah, if you ever want some feedback,
feel free to send me whatever.
I'll listen to it and tell you what I think.
I'm no expert or anything.
I just have a tuned ear from DJing.
And I've DJed open format.
So I started with Electro House.
That was my favorite back in the day,
but then kind of shifted.
And now that I'm a little older,
I like the chill stuff.
But yeah, I just wanted to say hi
and shout out to Australian.
And yeah, I'll let him speak now.
It's your turn now.
Yeah, Australian. Okay, cool turn now. Yeah, Australian.
Okay, cool.
Thanks a lot, mate.
So, Zintani, is that production?
And it is interesting that you volunteered.
What is it?
You want to have some people dance on dead bodies.
So is it going to be –
Okay.
Is the exhibition going to be titled Murder on the Dance Floor or something?
No, there's going to be no mention of the cadaver.
No mention.
The title of the song, the type of song, is not going to be death metal.
It's going to be something because it's representative of what you see in the world today,
which is supposed to be what artists do.
That's what we do, man.
Even with dead bodies, we never look at dead bodies.
Like, Jenny's a nurse, so she knows what dead people look like.
People don't even know what dead people look like or how they die.
Like, we...
I'm not trying to be like we live in a society.
I'm not trying to be like we live in a society. I'm not trying to be like Joker mind.
Okay.
Joker brain.
But it's true that we alienate ourselves from truths to live a sort of fantasy.
And the result of it is like first world countries are fucking depressed as fuck.
Like we deal with suicidality in a way that that third
world countries don't deal with well because we don't have any executive function because we're
if you get sad then you go get a a drug that makes you not sad anymore but your life is still
depressing that's why you're depressed you just don't want to fix it anymore, which is depressing. Like, like this is crazy.
So, yeah, I want I want to signify, you know, like it's insane.
There's insanity in luxury or in in first world comforts.
And it ultimately I mean, ultimately it hurts us.
So maybe there will be something in the music video
where they dance themselves to death or something like that
and someone dances on top of them or something.
I don't know.
Maybe not.
That's too much probably.
So obviously the shock element of it,
the thing that have the visceral element of it would be the dead bodies, right?
So people are going to be spellbound by that or they're going to be revolted or captured or whatever it would be the dead bodies right so people are going to be spellbound by that or
they're going to be revolted or captured or whatever it may be or at least it's going to
serve as a talking point but then secondarily that though that the song itself and what it's
trying to present and there's going to be outrage and they're going to say well look what they're
doing they are desecrating those dead bodies and therefore this is a serious question entirely that i'd like to put to you we've never had
an option to do it previously but i guess now's the perfect time right since we've gone there
so what's worse because there would be individuals out there that would say
desecrating a dead body is worse than desecrating a living body
i know there are people out there that would make that argument.
I've already thought about this.
You want my media answer?
Yeah.
How could people make that argument when one is the desecration of somebody who is living and the other one is to a dead body?
So how could the dead body be worse in terms of repercussions
than the living body i don't get it go ahead well my my my media answer when i get asked this
question in the future is i'm going to say well yeah i asked it for consent so we're good
yeah of course but not everyone is a volunteer and that's it they've dragged up until they're
dragged right up to the line right some people are volunteers like as you're talking yeah i will
i will let everyone know that i let the dead body know that it could object and say no at any point
and i would stop the whole thing but the dead body did consent all the way through. So as far as I'm concerned, we're good.
But I appreciate all the people offended on behalf of the dead body.
I will clothe the body.
It won't be naked.
I'm not going to have people jumping on it.
They're not going to be stepping on it.
It's just going to be right below them.
I mean, they might step on it, actually actually i don't have a problem with that but nothing like intentionally no blood spat spattering
or anything like that from another section of the community would come at you as well as in tiny
they would say that if this was not a body that died of natural causes if it is somebody that
euthanized themselves to volunteer for you to then commit the desecration on the dead body, they would say that somehow you're sinister for having someone commit or euthanize themselves just so you could perform your art.
Well, people are going to talk.
I wouldn't be.
Well, hold on, hold on.
Actually, I would not be comfortable getting someone to euthanize themselves.
I would not take that body.
I'd rather take a body for, well, okay, here's what I'm saying.
There's dead bodies in museums, okay?
Are they being desecrated?
What were they donated to?
I'll get one of those.
So it's the same thing.
Wait, if you manhandle a mummy, it's the exact same thing as desecrating it, though, correct?
manhandle a mummy it's the exact same thing as desecrating it though correct i mean if if people
don't have a problem with um dead bodies in museums there's whole you know you have bodies
that have been sliced apart like 50 different times and they're fully naked and they're on
display in museums so i i will clothe it okay okay? I don't care.
I mean, the ultimate, the over and under Australian is like,
I recognize people will be upset.
I don't care.
They're stupid.
I think that's the beauty of it, though.
That's the genius of it, though.
It's your indifference to how people see it because it's your art.
It's your expression.
How they wish to interpret it, who cares?
And that to them would be even more infuriating,
but I think to the true lover of the artiste out there,
they'd say, oh, my goodness, they were so bold.
Look what they did.
They simply did not
care they did not care about the standards of the time or the era or the morals or the ethics
they're beyond all of that they had transcended those those types of um things that would hold
you back from being able to fully explore your expression so is as in time, you go for it. Well, no, like, the reason I even think about these things in the first place
is because I saw the body of my mother desecrated, in my opinion.
They did what they do with all the bodies,
but I remember being a young child and seeing the body of my mother
in the casket with rosy pink cheeks uh that they put makeup on and like bright
lipstick and i remember seeing this as a child and it was so fucking demented because i understood
my mother was dead why is she being like in my opinion that desecrates death when you're hiding from death and like
almost from my you know 10 year old eyes in my 10 year old eyes um this was more way more offensive
um why why can't you look at death why am a child's understanding that we're hiding from death
more than the adults in the room that are supposed to understand? And that's what I
thought really is. I was like, I feel more adult than any of these retards. I remember thinking
that I didn't think retards, the word retards, but I remember thinking these people are crazy the adults are insane and i
would like to see my dead the dead body of my mom and i can't i'm looking at a doll specimen like
atrocity because they can't handle death we can't handle death hey choose play um child psychiatrist
for a second the child presents to you okay, they're now telling you what the symptoms
or this child is presenting.
This child is refusing to attend their mother's funeral
unless they can view their mother's body
in a completely dead state, preferably over a made-up state.
What would be your findings to that child's mind initially?
Honestly, it's not that unusual of a thing.
Because I'm pretty sure that would be a preference that the funeral home would probably ask about.
Or if I think the disconnect is that you were a child.
So like you had no decision-making agency
in the matter at all,
because obviously the other adults
would have made those decisions.
But honestly, I think,
I don't think there's anything wrong with it.
I think you were just being rational about it.
And you were like, why are we putting makeup on her?
She's gone.
She's like, she's in heaven.
So she's not here on this earth anymore.
So that makes no sense to me.
So I don't think there's anything wrong with it.
Like I said, I think it's a logical,
I don't even want to say reductive,
but it's a very simple way to look at it.
But it makes sense because you were a child.
Like, I don't know how old you said you were, like 10? Yeah, I was 10, but it was a lesson my mother actually taught me.
So I don't know if you're a psychologist, you can tell me what you think of this, but I'm very
grateful for this. My mother and I grew up raising sick animals with my mom.
Turtles, raccoons, geese.
We'd take in lobsters.
She used to go and buy out all the lobsters at those Chinese places
and we'd let the lobsters go free.
My mom loved animals.
So we were always taking in some sick, broken animal.
And so my mother, at a young age, you know, there was a bird
that fell out of a tree and died. And she walked me up to this bird and she let me look at it. And
she explained to me what death was. She let me look at it. She explained what it was. She wanted
me to see it and to understand it. I understand maybe people would think this is odd, but this is something she needed to do because we were going to be around animals that might die.
So I needed to understand.
And I appreciated this immensely.
So, yeah, it was this juxtaposition of I learned a truth that I knew was a truth because I'd seen death.
I understood death before
she died and then here they are hiding death from from my eyes on her body which she wouldn't have
even wanted uh and i i found as like a total atrocity um i understand why people do it but
it's uh to me that's desecrating a body.
I remember, it reminds me of this video that I saw recently of, because you know how often
when, like, young children, when their pets die, they'll say, like, parents will say,
oh, like, the dog or the cat just went off to a farm or something.
Like, you know, they'll say something other than the dog died, right?
They'll try and protect their child from the fact that the dog passed away.
I saw this video recently of a father, like, actually showing his son
the body of their dog that had passed away.
And, like, saying, hey, like, he's passed away.
You know, they did say he's in a better place.
They said he's gone to heaven, which I think is, you know,
in line with saying that he's died, right?
He's no longer with us.
And then, like, had the child, like, help him actually bury the dog.
And I'm like, man, that is such a better way to handle the passing of a pet
or a person than just denying reality and pretending that, like,
nothing actually happened.
Like, I think that child will grow up with
a far better perspective on life than they would have otherwise if their their parents had just
pretended that no the dogs don't die dogs never die or your dog never died it just went off
somewhere else like to me that child look it's probably it's probably i don't know maybe it'll
be a nothing burger as far as their overall life perspective,
but that's certainly putting them in a better place to understand reality,
understand life and death than just pretending that nothing sad or bad happened.
You should appreciate life in part because it's going to end at some point.
Yeah, exactly.
And if I'm going to put my psychologist hat on,
you mentioned something that was kind of interesting. You said hiding from death.
And everything else is pretty logical and rational, especially it makes a lot of sense when you talked
about your mother and your animals. Because yeah, when you're a kid, there comes an age
when your parents should teach you
about death because like you said and like mon said um you know life is finite we only have so
much time on this earth uh and you know after we die you know if you're religious you believe we
go to heaven or hell or whatever or you know maybe you're not religious and you believe there's nothing after this, which personally, I think that's kind of, you know, apathetic to think about.
But yeah, you mentioned hiding from it.
So I kind of want to dig deeper into that a little bit.
Why do you say hiding specifically?
I think that all people to an extent hide from death and it's probably a healthy thing
to a point but i think that we have gotten unhealthy about it uh like when there's a dispute
over is it okay to be fat for example um We have this back and forth, back and forth,
back and forth forever about it
because everyone's in denial about death so much,
for example, I'd say, that it's unhealthy.
Like if you want to find the solution there,
cocoa, cocoa, come on.
If you want to find the answer there,
it's do fat people die sooner?
Yes, they do.
End of conversation. So it's do fat people die sooner yes they do uh the end of conversation so it's okay
to be fat uh but they're they're they're gonna die quicker so like things like this it's just like
you see humanity get crazy the more out of touch with nature we get
yeah i think there's kind of a fine line going on between like being like totally conscious
and completely aware of death at all times like i think that's kind of silly like you see like
the doomsday club yeah where like they're constantly counting down to how long before
humanity like evaporates and i'm like okay that's just ridiculous like i there's a yeah that's
rumination yeah exactly so it makes you depressed right yeah that's just ridiculous. Yeah, that's rumination.
Yeah, exactly.
So it makes you depressed.
Yeah, that's not healthy either.
Right.
So I think the proper stance, and I'm kind of riffing here,
but I think the proper stance is the acknowledgement of death,
the recognition that, you know, at some point,
everyone's time on this earth is up, but not,
and I don't know exactly where the line is.
I kind of have to figure that out.
But without like the constant, as you said,
like rumination on it or the constant obsession over it as a fact of life.
It's just like a fact of life that should be acknowledged in the same way as
most other facts of life, just recognised, integrated into our experience,
but not like constantly, you know, focused on or catastrophized, I suppose.
Well, do we need to find some type of comfortability in death?
Like death's something we all want to grapple with and, you know,
it makes us experience things in our lives that we'd prefer not to go through.
But some people are extremely stoic through that process.
And it's almost a personal challenge to themselves to remain resolute and
stoic throughout the entirety of that.
The burials of funeral proceedings, everything.
They're the ones that keep themselves together.
But is it always true that they inevitably have to crash or,
or some of them just comfortable with it and they can move on and,
and accept it without really looking back, reflecting too much?
Well, everybody handles it differently. Everybody handles grief differently.
So that's kind of a hard question to answer because when my mom died,
uh, she died unexpectedly.
And I was that guy that was stoic.
I have a sister.
She's two years younger than me.
And I was like, okay, I have to be there for my sister.
I got to be strong for her.
Because she was a wreck.
And I was stoic probably for a good three months.
But that was me not really dealing with my grief
because I was really close with my mom. So after that, I had to deal with my own grief
and I had to face it and, you know, really work through it. So yeah, some people might be fine
with it. Some people might be able to turn their brain off and just say,
hey, it's a fact of life and it is what it is and just move on with their lives.
And some people will be grieving for years and years.
Like I said at the beginning, it's kind of a hard question to answer on a general basis.
What do you think, Zinn? and Is anyone still there?
I was wondering the same thing.
I was like, did I get disconnected or what?
Can you guys hear me?
I can hear you, yeah.
A couple of people dropped off.
Okay.
Zinn, could you hear me?
Yeah, I can hear you again now, Chus.
And in regards to what you're saying, yeah,
I think that's certainly true.
Everyone will take it however they can best deal
with the challenge ahead of them.
At some point in time, they will crumble.
But I think you have to do that because that's the process of healing, right?
If you keep burying that within you, you're only going to cause yourself more harm over
time. But I did find it pretty cool that Zintani once again volunteered
when she was a young person or a child.
She went through something like that,
and she was looking around in almost bemusement,
and all the adults, they'd gone to these hilarious antics almost
to dress up what was a dead body before her.
And she's like looking at it and just saying, well, it's dead.
And I guess that sort of demonstrates or at least illustrates to us
that children and adults see death very differently.
That's a black and white issue for children.
Yeah, of course, it can be far more traumatic for them as well
for a young child to lose their mother or father.
But in the overall, the way they look at it, they don't look at it similarly to adults.
And you'll notice if you go to a wake or a funeral and there are kids of one of the adults that have parentage,
