Alright, good morning, good afternoon, good evening.
All right, good morning, good afternoon, good evening.
I hope wherever you're at, you're having a good day.
I hope wherever you're at, you're having a good day.
That little intro music, I feel like we always got to let it reach the crescendo because
I feel like we always got to let it reach the crescendo because if not, it just feels
if not, it just feels like you get bad vibes for the rest of the day.
like you get bad vibes for the rest of the day, so I'm excited to join you guys on the
I'm excited to join you guys on the space today.
Welcome to Multi Chain Mondays where we talk about all things going on across the crypto
Welcome to Multi Chain Mondays where we talk about all things going on across the crypto
landscape and we like to focus on applications and use cases of a multi chain world where
applications span across multiple blockchains.
applications span across multiple blockchains.
Today we're going to be speaking specifically about Ordinals and innovation happening within
Today we're going to be speaking specifically about ordinals and innovation happening within
Obviously we'll have a nice little ICP twist to it and that kind of makes it more multi
Obviously we'll have a nice little ICP twist to it and that kind of makes it more multi
But really excited today because we got Ludo and we got Bob and I know I've talked a lot
I'm really excited today because we got Ludo and we got Bob and I know I've talked a lot
with Bob on spaces, but this is my first time talking with Ludo.
with Bob on spaces, but this is my first time talking with Ludo, so Ludo, how are you doing?
So Ludo, how are you doing?
Hi guys, nice to meet you, it's our first time, it's a pleasure to be here.
Yeah, it's our first time.
It's a pleasure to be here.
Super excited to be talking with you.
Super excited to be talking with you.
Let's start the conversation just around your work because I think the community's had a
Let's start the conversation just around your work because I think the community's had a
chance to listen to Bob talk about ordinals before, but we haven't had you on a Twitter
chance to listen to Bob talk about Ordinals before and but we haven't had you on a Twitter
space yet, so give us the quick two minutes, actually you know what, let's go all the way
So give us like the quick two minutes.
Actually you know what, let's go all the way back to the beginning because I know I first
back to the beginning because I know I first became aware of you with your street art and
became aware of you with your street art and so why don't we start there and kind of
so why don't we start there and kind of work through how that turned into NFTs and where
work through how that turned into NFTs and where you're at today.
Yeah, sure, like two minutes, okay, let's try.
All right, you got four minutes then.
You got four minutes then.
Well, you know what, I started with digital always, like I was always inspired by Star
Well, you know what, I started with digital always like I was always inspired by Star
Wars or Matchbox or Jurassic Park, so whenever I started working video clips, like music
So whenever I started walking video clips like music videos or commercials like for
videos or commercials like MTV or Nike, like back in the days, a long time ago and then
MTV or Nike like back in the days, long time ago and then I had a kind of a burnt out like
I had a kind of a burnt out, like a swap, very young burnt out, but that's fine and
a swap very young burnt out but that's fine.
then I just focused on my artist career kind of, doing things outside in the streets, nothing
really for galleries or museum, but just for the pleasure of doing stuff.
You know how being free after being walking as crazy like, I don't know, like graphic
designer, whatever you want, you want to call it in advertising.
or whatever you want to call it in advertising and yeah, I just I followed up, I traveled
And yeah, I've just, I followed up, I traveled a lot, people started to be interested in
People started to be interested in my work, I don't know, maybe new original and I had
my work, I don't know, maybe new original and I had a chance to work with like big museums,
a chance to work with big museums like Bubu or in China or in LA or the Moka in LA or
like Bubu or in China or in L.A. or the Moka in L.A. or I worked with also people I was
I worked with also people I was fan of like Pink Floyd or Radiohead or brands like Nike
fan of, like Pink Floyd or Radiohead or brands like Nike and then I did this flower outside,
and then I did this flower outside this kind of like this Bitcoin flower.
this kind of like this Bitcoin flower, I don't know how you want to call it, like I called
I don't know how you want to call it, I called it like RIP, RIP banking system because for
it like RIP, RIP banking system, because for me it was like I started to discover blockchain
me it was like I started to discover blockchain and for me it was exactly what inspired me
and for me it was exactly what inspired me in my work, like the respect and the connection
in my work like the respect and the connection in between two kind of people, two viewers
in between two, two kind of people, two viewers without a middleman, without a liar, without
without a middleman, without a liar, without you know someone like bad in the middle and
you know someone like bad in the middle and then this flower became like a kind of symbol
then this flower became like a kind of symbol for Bitcoin, Maxi, like I was seeing a lot
for Bitcoin maxi, like I was seeing a lot of stuff online, for me it was not about Bitcoin
For me it was not about Bitcoin again, it was about blockchain, the use of blockchain,
again, it was about blockchain, the use of blockchain, how we can change the system thanks
how we can change the system thanks to blockchain and so that was like 2017, 2018 then of course
to blockchain and so that was like 2017, 2018, then of course NFT hype came around and so for
NFT hype came around and so for me it was like okay so now you don't have to be shy
me it was like okay so now you don't have to be shy you know to do digital things, like even if
you know to do digital things like even if you are a sculptor you can do your things
you are a sculptor you can do your things like in 3D scan or whatever it's fine, like the result
like in 3D, scan or whatever it's fine like the result is important the technique is whatever
is important, the technique is whatever you want to do if it's digital, so for me like was a click
you want to do if it's digital so for me it was a click like okay so I want to do something
like okay so I want to do something digitally but that makes sense digitally, so we started like
digitally but that makes sense digitally.
So we started like back in 2021, I think summer 2021 to work on the concept of the flower
back in 2021, I think summer 21 to work on the concept of the flower, like how to make it
like how to make it interesting so first of all I wanted it sorry to be animated like
interesting, so first of all I wanted it to be animated, like you can't do that in real life
you can't do that in real life obviously so that's something let's say your artwork
obviously, so that's something let's say your artwork will change with you every day, will evolve
will change with you every day, will evolve with you, for the flowers it's linked to very
with you, for the flowers it's linked to the price of the Bitcoin for the Bitcoin flower, for the
maybe to the price of the Bitcoin for the Bitcoin flower for the ECC theorem, ICP, ICP
ECC theorem, ICP, ICP and on and on, but for me like I would love to have sometimes like a work,
and on and on but for me like I would love to have sometimes like a work like a piece
like a piece of art evolving with you, like changing with your with your vibes with what you
of art evolving with you like changing with your with your vibes with what you do during
do during the day with the weather outside, stuff like that, so anyway that was so my first
the day with the weather outside and stuff like that so anyway that was so my first motivation
motivation to do something digitally, and then things change actually like I don't know if we
to do something digitally and then and then things change actually like I don't know if
we reached our four minutes already but sorry I go on now I just just just like about I think
reached our four minutes already, but I go on, no I just just just like about I think it's important
it's important like innovation and evolution for me like these things change like back in maybe in
like innovation and evolution, for me like these things change like back in maybe in 2022, maybe you
2022 maybe you can sell a collection and you know it's it's like okay that's an NFT so it's
can sell a collection and you know it's like okay that's an NFT, so it's gonna sell out, okay cool,
gonna sell out okay cool but now I feel feel more that the art the visual is not enough
but now I feel more that the art, the visual is not enough, and it's like a nice, it's like an
and it's like a nice it's like an analog an album like a musical kind of you have a nice cover
album, like a musical album kind of, you have a nice cover, nice art, but then you have all the
nice art but then you have all the songs and and all the songs have to mean something
songs and all the songs have to mean something like to be a good project, so you have the nice
like to be a good project so you have the nice visual and everything inside so it's like a
visual and everything inside, so it's like a package now, and that's for me that's how like
package now and and and that's for me that's how like flower power pdc flower is like today
Flower Power, PDC Flower is like today, it's more like a package with a dowel, with the seeds coming,
it's more like a package with like with a dowel with the seeds coming with the ordinal comings
with the ordinal comings and things like that, more than just one collection and hopefully it's
and things like that more than just one collection and hopefully it's going to be
gonna be something iconic or whatever, but I don't really trust that, but that's where we are kind of
something iconic or whatever but I you know I don't really trust that but that's that's where
we are kind of today yeah yeah you you mentioned um the the um the art not being static and that
today. Yeah, you mentioned the art not being static, and that that is possible because it's
that is possible because it's a digital uh medium and and it kind of struck me that um I know
a digital medium, and it kind of struck me that I know I've been thinking a lot recently about this
I've been thinking a lot recently about this idea of dynamic NFTs I know Bob has been tweeting about
idea of dynamic NFTs, I know Bob has been tweeting about dynamic NFTs, this idea that you said it
dynamic NFTs this idea that NFT you said it perfectly NFTs that can change with you either
perfectly, NFTs that can change with you, either based on actions you do or actions that are
based on actions you do or actions that are occurring so bitcoin flowers bitcoin flowers
occurring, so Bitcoin flowers, Bitcoin flowers may be one of them, one, certainly on the internet
may be one of them one certainly on the internet computer maybe uh the first dynamic NFT uh because
computer maybe, the first dynamic NFT, because the flowers themselves, what would you call it, like
the the flowers themselves uh um what would you call it like uh oscillate uh or the the lighting
oscillate or the lighting of the flowers kind of changes based on the price of Bitcoin and the
of the flowers kind of changes based on the price of bitcoin in the direction it's going yeah the
direction it's going? Yeah, the petals are animated like the fluctuation through the petals,
petals the petals are animated like the the the fluctuation like through the petals like the
like the transparency and the speed of the petals are linked to the Bitcoin price. Same for the
transparency and the the speed of the petals are linked to the bitcoin price same for the ICP
ICP flowers, ICP flower is linked with the ICP price. So just that little bit of, I feel like
flower ICP flower is linked with ICP price so just that like little bit of um it's like I feel
like that was like a nice little touch of just kind of tying the art to the real world um and I
that was a nice little touch of just kind of tying the art to the real world, and just to give
just to give credit correct me if I'm wrong it was um clouded logic and crypto shindler
credit, correct me if I'm wrong, it was Clouded Logic and Crypto Schindler, were those the two
were the were those the two desks okay perfect um so giving credit to them and then so and then
deaths? Okay, perfect. So giving credit to them. And then Bob, feel free to join this conversation,
and bob feel free to join this conversation let's dive deeper into like this idea of dynamic NFTs
let's dive deeper into this idea of dynamic NFTs. So art that changes over time, where do you guys
uh so like art that changes over time like where do you guys see this kind of going is there
see this kind of going? Is there specific use cases that you can see? Or is this a new innovative
specific use cases that you can see or is this a is this a new innovative field or is this just
field? Or is this just kind of a nice that you do for like one or two collections?
kind of a um a nice that you do for like one or two collections um bob do you want to sure yeah
Bob, do you want to? Sure. Yeah, I'll take it from a more general perspective. Can you hear me? Okay,
i'll take it from a more general perspective um can you hear me okay just just double checking
just just double check in first time speaking on the space. Yep, you're perfectly fine.
first time speaking on the space yep okay you're perfectly all right awesome uh hi everyone uh i'm
Awesome. Hi, everyone. I'm the CEO of Bionic, which is an Ordinals Marketplace and Launchpad
the CEO of bionic which is an ordinals marketplace on launchpad that we're building on ICP
that we're building on ICP, which is Internet Computer Protocol. Regarding dynamic NFTs, I think
which is internet computer protocol uh regarding dynamic NFTs i think that as a creator um
that as a creator, I like to use the word creator because it means that you are, you know, building
i like to use the word creator because it means that you are you know building a community it's
a community. It's kind of medium agnostic, like it doesn't matter what you're doing or what you're
kind of medium agnostic like it doesn't matter what what you're doing or what you're creating but
creating. But I like the term creator. And you essentially want to, you know, grow, grow a
i like the term creator and you essentially want to you know grow grow a community around the work
community around the work that you're doing, you want to engage your community, whether that's
that you're doing you want to engage your community whether that's governance whether that's you know
governance, whether that's, you know, just sitting back and chilling with the community. And you also
just sitting back and chilling with the community um and you also want to monetize monetize meaning
want to monetize monetize, meaning provide enough value so that the people in your community want
provide enough value so that the people in your community want to pay you for that value
to pay you for that value. And so when I think about dynamic NFTs, I think it's a really good
and so when i think about dynamic NFTs i think it's a really good tool that creators have in their
tool that creators have in their tool belt essentially to grow, engage and monetize their
tool uh tool belt essentially to uh grow engage and monetize their community if you think about
community. If you think about it from a growth perspective, you know, one of the best ways for
it from a growth perspective uh you know one of the best ways for um creators to grow is via air
creators to grow is via airdrops. You could imagine wanting to airdrop existing ordinals
drops um you could imagine wanting to airdrop existing ordinals collections or existing ICP
collections or existing ICP collections or, you know, almost in like a vampire attack kind of way,
collections or you know almost in like a vampire attack kind of way but not not in a malicious way
but not not in a malicious way, just trying to grow, grow your community. And I think airdrops
just trying to grow grow your community um and i think airdrops start to get extra interesting
start to get extra interesting when you take a low, you know, high supply, you know, low, low
when you take a low you know high supply you know low low value airdrop collection and now you start
value airdrop collection. And now you start to layer on interesting dynamic features on top of
to layer on interesting um dynamic features on top of that maybe there's a burn mechanism
that. Maybe there's a burn mechanism where you can burn it for something else. Maybe there's a
where you can burn it for something else maybe there's a um a way for you to you know upgrade
way for you to, you know, upgrade or improve the traits of that collection. And I think that's a
or improve the traits of of that collection and i think that's a good way to engage your community
good way to engage your community. If you want to do some kind of like daily check-in, you know,
if you want to do some kind of like daily check-in you know tamagotchi style feature
Tamagotchi style, feed your NFT to keep it happy kind of thing, you could do that. I think dynamic
feed your nft to keep it happy kind of thing you could do that um i think dynamic nfts have tons of
NFTs have tons of potential for engaging communities. And then on the monetization side,
potential for engaging communities and then on the monetization side i think it's only a matter of
I think it's only a matter of time until you have this, you know, NFT upgrade store, essentially.
time until you have this you know nft upgrade store essentially imagine you just go to your nft and you
Imagine you just go to your NFT and you say, I really want this thing. And you can go and it's
say i really want this thing and you can go and it's like you know the the creator is adding new
like, you know, the creator is adding new things all the time. And you can just go and, you know,
things all the time and you can just go and you know essentially it's another monetization channel
monetization channel for creators. So I really, really like dynamic NFTs with our unique combo
for for creators so i really really like dynamic nfts um with with our unique combo of icp and
of ICP and Bitcoin. On Bionic, we have a lot of opportunities to do dynamic NFTs, you know,
bitcoin on bionic we have a lot of opportunities to do dynamic nfts um you know keeping things
keeping things on ICP and very, very dynamic until you inscribed a Bitcoin, and then it becomes kind
on icp and very very dynamic until you inscribe to bitcoin and then it becomes kind of solidified
of solidified forever on Bitcoin. So yeah, that's a bit on how I'm thinking about dynamic NFTs.
forever on on bitcoin um so yeah that's that's a bit on on how i'm thinking about dynamic nfts
Is it and Ludo, this question is for you as well. Is dynamic NFTs limited to just the art,
is it is it and ludo this question is for you as well is is dynamic nfts limited to just the art
just the visual, or are there other components that could be also brought into it?
just the visual or are there other uh components that that could be also brought into it
i mean for for me as maybe as a creator as pub was saying like uh it's using the tool
I mean, for me, as maybe as a creator, as Bob was saying, like,
it's using the tool provided like the best you can and the most you can.
provided like the best you can and the most you can so it's like but i mean for the flowers for
So it's like, but I mean, for the flowers, for example, everything's ready. So it's gonna be out
example uh everything is ready so it's gonna be out soon we have the seeds so basically
soon. We have the seeds. So basically, you have your flower in your wallet. You log in, you have
you you have your flower in your wallet you log in you have your garden uh you take your
your garden. You take your flower, you plant it in your garden, and your flower gives you seeds
flower you plant it in your garden and your flower uh gives you seeds every day depending on your
every day, depending on your flower. So the seeds then enter in in the kind of like flower power,
flower um so the seeds then enter in in the kind of like flower power new ecosystem so it's like
new ecosystem. So it's like the vision of a flower giving you giving you a seed. Okay, you have one
the vision of a flower giving you giving you a seed okay you have one seed maybe it can pay you
seed, maybe it can pay you a coffee or more depends on the value of the seeds, or you can reenter the
a coffee or or more depends on the value of the seeds or you can re-enter the ecosystem and and
ecosystem. And by your collection, you can support new artists, you can even buy collections
buy new collection you can support new artists you can even buy collections in the icp ecosystem or
in the ICP ecosystem. So it's not just like the kind of visually, how you
so it's not just like the kind of visually how you not only visual is for me it's just a normal
not only visual is for me, it's just a normal evolution of your of your art kind of if it's
evolution of your of your art kind of if it's digital of course if you have a canvas on your
digital. Of course, if you have a canvas on your wall, that's there's no discussion about that. But
world that's there's no discussion about that but but for me this more like yeah it's uh it's a
but for me, this one, I guess it's a normal evolution of the NFT is just like how to use
normal evolution of the lft is just like how to use the technology we have the best we can
the technology we have the best we can, and not be lazy, and just throw visual and expect and hope
and not be lazy and just throw visual and expect and hope is going to sell that's all so yeah
is going to sell. That's all. So yeah. Well, it's, I want to dive more into the seeds because I have
well it's uh i want to dive more into the seats because i have i have a lot of questions on that
I have a lot of questions on that. But before we leave the topic of dynamic NFT, and actually,
but before we leave the topic of dynamic nft and actually ludo i love how you connected dynamic
Ludo, I love how you connected dynamic NFT with also the idea of going beyond just the the actual
nft with also the idea of um going beyond just the the actual nft itself to have even more
NFT itself to have even more utility, you know, outside of, of just the NFT. And actually,
utility you know outside of of just the nft um and actually by saying that yeah i think yeah i think
by saying that, I think, yeah, no, I think it's, it's really like how to think like,
it's yeah no i think it's it's really like how to think like it's always like think more you
it's always like think more, you know, like if she's not not like just being a follower, but
know like if she's not not like just being a follower but but like being a creator so what
like being a creator. So what, what can be done like today? Like, what's like so back in the days,
what can be done like today like what's like so back in the days we explore the idea of having
we explore the idea of having the real time animation. But now it's like the vision of the
real-time animation but now it's like the vision of the flower and and it's just for me it's like
flower. And it's just for me, it's like a global project. It's not about the support anymore. It's
a global project it's not about the support anymore it's not about the blockchain anymore
not about the blockchain anymore. It's not like, let's say if you are a writer, you're gonna, you're
it's not like let's say if you are a writer you're gonna you're gonna promote the paper you are
gonna promote the paper, you are writing on it. No, you don't care about the paper, you care about
writing on it no you don't care about the paper you you care about your book or what what you're
your book, or what what you're talking about. So for me, it's like, when I think about the
talking about so for me it's like when i think about the flower power and the whole project
flower power and the whole project, it's gonna be on ordinals also. So it I don't know, if we have
it's gonna be on ordinars also so it i don't know if we have a new opportunity to have a collection
a new opportunity to have a collection on Solana, it's great. If you are on something on this,
on solana it's great if you are if we're on something on east it's great if we have something
it's great. If we have something physical in the museum, amazing, you know, so it just just like,
uh physical in the museum amazing you know so it just just like it's a whole project it's not
it's a whole project. It's not only one piece. And that's all. I don't know. Yeah, so you're you're
only one piece and that's all i don't know ever yeah so you're you're kind of i love that you're
kind of I love that you're thinking through it from, like the the collector's mindset and trying
thinking through it from um like the um the collector's mindset and trying to not just uh
to not just, it's not just one piece of art, it's, it's an experience for them in a community and
it's not just one piece of art it's it's an experience for them in a community and and kind
kind of a journey for them to walk through. Yeah. Yeah, that's great. Actually, that's
of a journey for them to walk through yeah um yeah that's great actually that's great you're
great. You're mentioning the experience because that's, that's our talk with Bob with Bob when
mentioning the experience because that's that's our talk with bob with bob when we when we started
we when we started speak about ordinals. Like, I'm sorry, but I'm gonna be against you about the
to speak about ordinals like i'm sorry but i'm gonna be against you about the idea of airdrop i'm
idea of airdrop. I don't like anymore this idea of like, white least airdrop and blah, blah, blah,
i don't like anymore this idea of like whitelist airdrop and blah blah blah this sort like
it's sort of like, kind of NFT cliche, wordings, White List, white, white list, you know. So
kind of nft cliche wordings whitelist whitelist you know so anyway so i said to bob like let's do the
anyway, so I said to Bob, like, let's do the, let's give the community the community, the
let's give the community the community the world experience so you have to go there you have to
world experience. So you have to go there, you have to take the orange peel, go on ordinals and
take the orange peel go on ordinals and do the world um you know like it's not only it's not
do the world. You know, like, it's not only, it's not like someone giving giving you something in
like someone giving giving you something in your side your wallet and you do nothing no you have
inside your wallet and you do nothing.
No, you have to experience the whole concept
to experience the world the world concept that what's an ordinal or what's bionic uh working
of what's an ordinal or what's bionic working there.
there like uh so we build this ptc flower gen 2 gen 2 will give you the 2.1 then you can link on
So we build this PTC flower, Gen2, Gen2 will give you
the 2.1, then you can link on ordinal and blah, blah, blah.
ordinal and blah blah blah but it's it's a world experience and you have to experience it
But it's a world experience and you have to experience it.
it definitely feels like um ordinals because of the the the way the tech stack is of the ordinals
It definitely feels like ordinals,
because of the way the tech stack is of the ordinals,
it doesn't it definitely goes against the idea of the traditional airdrop model or airdrop farming
it doesn't, it definitely goes against the idea
of the traditional airdrop model or airdrop farming, right?
right and so i guess um what in your guys so thinking through ordinals like what does ordinals
And so I guess, what in your guys,
so thinking through ordinals,
like what is ordinals bring NFTs that,
bring nfts that or you know the you know nfts on other chains including icp don't bring to don't
or the NFTs on other chains, including ICP,
bring to nfts like where's where's the innovation there in ordinals well i think that's a good
Like where's the innovation there in ordinals?
Well, I think that's a good question.
question like for me like okay so i just for me for for my project it's it's the it's the chain
Like for me, like a quick answer,
I just, for my project, it's the chain,
it's the chain like if if we created the bdc flower that i mean obviously we need a bdc flower
it's the chain, like if we created the BDC flower,
I mean, obviously we need a BDC flower on ordinals,
on ordinals because that's bitcoin that's all i don't know technically i don't think uh i have no
because that's Bitcoin, that's all, I don't know.
Technically, I don't think I have no idea
idea what you can really do like amazing and i don't think is you can really do amazing things
what you can really do, like amazing,
and I don't think you can really do amazing things,
but just like to have something on ordinals for honestly that's all for me yeah i think i i think
but I just like to have something on ordinals for me.
Honestly, that's all for me.
Yeah, I think I would chime in on the technical side,
i would chime in on the tech technical side and one of the key innovations on the ordinal side
and one of the key innovations on the ordinal side
is all of the assets are 100 on chain uh this is something we're familiar with on the icp side
is all of the assets are 100% on chain.
This is something we're familiar with on the ICP side,
because we also put things 100 on chain on icp the the key differentiator here is for ordinals
because we also put things 100% on chain on ICP.
The key differentiator here is for ordinals,
you have a really nice pay once store forever model so you go you pay to put your assets on
you have a really nice pay once, store forever model.
So you go, you pay to put your assets on Bitcoin,
on bitcoin and they're there forever for essentially the life of bitcoin for as long as you have full
and they're there forever,
for essentially the life of Bitcoin,
for as long as you have full node syncing the chain.
node sinking the chain and um we don't really have something like that uh that's you know easily
And we don't really have something like that
that's easily available on the ICP side.
available on the icp side um i know that i've heard talks of what kind of like cold storage coming to
I know that I've heard talks of kind of like cold storage
icp so rather than 13 fold replication of all of your data on icp essentially like in in memory
So rather than 13 fold replication of all of your data
on ICP, essentially like in memory,
you could have like cold storage which would be even cheaper and maybe even have this kind of
you could have like cold storage,
which would be even cheaper,
and maybe even have this kind of pay up front
you know pay up front and store forever kind of model to it uh so that's one thing that ordinals
and store forever kind of model to it.
So that's one thing that ordinals has
has that is really appealing you just throw it up there and pay for it and you never have to worry
that is really appealing.
You just throw it up there and pay for it,
and you never have to worry about it again.
about it again you don't have to top up top up cycles you don't have to worry about the protocol
You don't have to top up cycles,
you don't have to worry about the protocol changing,
changing you don't have to worry about anything it's just there forever so the the permanence
you don't have to worry about anything,
So the permanence of these assets,
of these assets i think is one of the key affordances of ordinals um plus it's on bitcoin
I think is one of the key affordances of ordinals.
you know you could argue bitcoin is the most secure decentralized database on planet earth
You could argue Bitcoin is the most secure,
decentralized database on planet earth.
um so take you know the permanence of bitcoin and then take the flexibility programmability
So take the permanence of Bitcoin,
and then take the flexibility, programmability,
interactivity of icp and i think it's uh you know match match made in heaven
and I think it's a match made in heaven.
um i love that i i uh i'll i'll add to that that i think um most of our industry is sleeping on
I'll add to that that I think most of our industry
is sleeping on the value of actually writing something
the value of actually writing something to the bitcoin uh you know to the bitcoin network and
and the fact that it will live forever at that point.
But I've mentioned that in a lot of other spaces,
we won't go into deep into that but i will say um within uh bitcoin um like when i when when i
so we won't go deep into that.
But I will say within Bitcoin,
when I go home, if I'm going home for Thanksgiving,
go home you know if i'm if i'm going home for thanksgiving and i see my aunt and she says oh
and I see my aunt and she says,
what do you do these days and i say oh i work in crypto um i can almost guarantee they'll say oh
oh, what do you do these days?
And I say, oh, I work in crypto.
I can almost guarantee they'll say,
you mean bitcoin oh is that bitcoin because in a lot in in most people's minds bitcoin and crypto
Because in most people's minds,
Bitcoin and crypto are the same thing.
are the same thing um they understand so bitcoin has that that brand power for sure um so what is
So Bitcoin has that brand power for sure.
in terms of bob you had mentioned kind of this idea of having uh dynamic nfts on the internet
Bob, you had mentioned this idea of having dynamic NFTs
on the internet computer,
computer and then um you know inscribing it to bitcoin uh and then that kind of makes it static
and then inscribing it to Bitcoin,
and then that makes it static.
do you want like can you give um like what what does that kind of look like is that is there is
What does that look like?
Is that open up any innovation opportunity?
that open up any kind of innovation opportunity like that it seems like there could be something
It seems like there could be something there.
there yeah this is definitely one of the unique advantages that we have building bionic on a
Yeah, this is definitely one of the unique advantages
that we have building Bionic
on a Bitcoin side chain on ICP.
bitcoin side chain on on icp um essentially you have this token that um well let me go up a little
Essentially you have this token that,
well, let me go up a little bit first.
bit first so you can technically upgrade on bitcoin it's not a rewrite it's an append-only upgrade so
So you can technically upgrade on Bitcoin.
It's not a rewrite, it's an append-only upgrade.
So they call it re-inscription.
they call it re-inscription and what this means is when you inscribe something the first time you
And what this means is when you inscribe something
the first time you take an image
take it an image or some other kind of data and you put it in the it's called the witness section
or some other kind of data and you put it in the,
it's called the witness section
on the input of a bitcoin transaction and then you connect that data to a particular satoshi
on the input of a Bitcoin transaction.
And then you connect that data to a particular satoshi,
a particular sat and now those are linked and it's basically an nft or an ordinal um or an
a particular sat, and now those are linked
and it's basically an NFT or an ordinal
or an inscription at that point.
inscription at that point and you can take that same sat and in another bitcoin transaction
And you can take that same sat
and in another Bitcoin transaction,
you can add or append additional data to to that ordinal so bitcoin does have the ability to upgrade
you can add or append additional data to that ordinal.
So Bitcoin does have the ability to upgrade.
the only difference is it's expensive um it it requires two bitcoin transactions for every
The only difference is it's expensive.
It requires two Bitcoin transactions for every upgrade.
upgrade and even under normal fee environments it's kind of uh fee prohibitive to do any kind of like
And even under normal fee environments,
it's kind of fee prohibitive to do any kind of
like daily or hourly upgrades.
daily or hourly upgrades so the way that i'm thinking about dynamic nfts is on bitcoin you
So the way that I'm thinking about dynamic NFTs
is on Bitcoin, you could do weekly, maybe,
could do weekly maybe but closer to monthly or yearly upgrades and on icp you could upgrade every
but closer to monthly or yearly upgrades.
And on ICP, you could upgrade every minute
minute if you wanted to um because of the the cost structure it's just so much more affordable
if you wanted to because of the cost structure.
It's just so much more affordable on ICP.
on icp and so um i think this gives you is like a whole spectrum for dynamic nfts if you want to do
And so I think this gives you like a whole spectrum
If you wanna do NFTs that change visually
you know nfts that change visually as you interact with some kind of game uh that's perfect
as you interact with some kind of game, that's perfect.
the game could be a web 2 game it could be a web 3 game we would build this in an oracle essentially
The game could be a web two game.
It could be a web three game.
We would build this in Oracle,
essentially pulling that data in to the smart contract
pulling that data in to the to the um smart smart contract on icp and once you have the
And once you have the data,
data then you can essentially just level up nfts visually based on based on that data
then you can essentially just level up NFTs visually
that could happen you know every every second every every minute um and then you might want to
That could happen every second, every minute.
And then you might wanna do,
do you know think about like a checkpoint or a save point or like uh you know stamping something
think about like a checkpoint or a save point
or like stamping something on Bitcoin.
on bitcoin then you can go and maybe it's every day or every week you go and say you know this
Then you can go and maybe it's every day or every week,
you go and say, this version of what I'm creating
version of what i'm creating is particularly important to me and i want to record it forever
is particularly important to me
and I want to record it forever and stamp it on Bitcoin.
you know and stamp it on bitcoin um so i think there's a lot of interesting innovation that
So I think there's a lot of interesting innovation
that we have yet to explore regarding this fast dynamic.
we have yet to explore regarding this fast dynamic um i'll call it fast dynamic nfts on
I'll call it fast dynamic NFTs on ICP
icp and slow dynamic nfts on on bitcoin i'm gonna give out a free uh million dollar idea here and
and slow dynamic NFTs on Bitcoin.
I'm gonna give out a free million dollar idea here
and just say people should be creating games
in which it's like a fixed time and whoever wins the game,
whoever wins the game let's say it's like a fantasy football league or something like that
let's say it's like a fantasy football league
the winner basically gets their trophy or their their nft inscribed to bitcoin to kind of forever
The winner basically gets their trophy
or their NFT inscribed to Bitcoin
to kind of forever record your status as a legend.
record your your status as a legend um i think that's a freebie right there but uh so let's go
I think that's a freebie right there.
into um so you mentioned the idea of like games right so you could actually have an nft that is
so you mentioned the idea of like games, right?
So you could actually have an NFT
that is playable within a game,
playable within a game which i think most people kind of understand that's that's already a thing
which I think most people kind of understand
that's already a thing on the internet computer,
on the internet computer but in which your nft uh the the pfp part the the art part of it can
but in which your NFT, the PFP part,
the art part of it can actually change
actually change based on your performance in the game with that is that correct yeah i mean it's
based on your performance in a game, is that correct?
Yeah, I mean, NFTs are just data.
i mean nfts are just data it's just around a database and if you want to change anything
It's just their own database.
And if you wanna change anything about that, you can.
about that you can um people historically have done isolated examples of this on other chains
People historically have done isolated examples
um but it feels like icp is best positioned to do something like this because we can do oracles
but it feels like ICP is best positioned
to do something like this because we can do oracles natively.
natively so you can pull in data from anywhere um you know just like with the btc flower uh changing
So you can pull in data from anywhere,
just like with the BTC flower changing
based on bitcoin price uh but it could be any any web 2 or web 3 application that you integrate in
but it could be any web two or web three application
there's an argument for keeping data within the game application rather than within the nft itself
There's an argument for keeping data
within the game application
rather than within the NFT itself.
but i think there's a lot of um interesting reasons to put it in the nft itself regarding
But I think there's a lot of interesting reasons
to put it in the NFT itself regarding provenance
provenance and knowing what can or cannot change um for the nft as well as portability so
and knowing what can or cannot change for the NFT
So being able to go into a marketplace, for example,
being able to go into a marketplace for example and seeing the the full scope of this nft whether
and seeing the full scope of this NFT,
whether it's dynamic metadata or stats or battle stats
it's dynamic metadata um or stats or you know battle stats or or whatever or even dynamic
or whatever, or even dynamic visual data,
visual data um being able to see all of that when making purchasing decisions i think is valuable
being able to see all of that
when making purchasing decisions, I think is valuable.
yeah you can almost just start to imagine cross game leveling right where an nft uh could have
Yeah, you can almost just start to imagine
cross game leveling, right?
Where an NFT could have been used in multiple games
been used in multiple games and in in each instance it it has achieved it's a specific level
in each instance, it has achieved a specific level
specific to that game and then perhaps even a level across all the games which would be kind
and then perhaps even a level across to all the games,
which would be kind of a cool dynamic.
of a cool dynamic ludo you you had mentioned the idea of seeds i want to dive deeper because i've
Ludo, you had mentioned the idea of seeds.
because I've seen a couple of tweets on the flower seeds
and walk us through like what you'd mentioned,
like the you know a bitcoin flower kind of drops these seeds and and then you can do things with
like a Bitcoin flower kind of drops these seeds
and then you can do things with it.
it can you kind of give us a overview of of the seeds aspect yes i mean yeah sure i mean it's
Can you kind of give us a overview
I mean, it's a little overview.
it's a little overview i can't reveal everything uh but i think it's it's uh it's the first one of
I can't reveal everything,
but I think it's the first,
one of the first vision I had for the flower power
the first vision i had for the like flower power is uh for me it's back in the in the old like antique
is for me, it's back in the old like antique,
uh traditional uh where to to to to swap things and
traditional way to swap things
and entity system kind of like right now.
entity stem kind of like right now and uh so yeah you have you have your flower
And so yeah, you have your flower
and you if you if you want so i don't like the term like staking and staking
So I don't like to term like staking and staking things.
things for me it's more like planting so you plant your flower
For me, it's more like planting.
So you plant your flower in the garden, in your garden
uh in the garden in your garden and it gives you seed uh seeds it's uh so it's it's it will be
and it gives you seed seeds.
It's, so it will be our token.
our token there is zero supply at the beginning because only flowers produce the the seeds so
There is zero supply at the beginning
cause only flowers produce the seeds.
So nothing for the team, nothing for marketing,
nothing for the team nothing for marketing nothing for air drops nothing whatever uh no pool
nothing for air drops, nothing, whatever.
No pool, there is no zero seeds when we start
there is no zero seeds uh when we start and and and it's just so it's the community it's
and it just, so it's the community,
the flower holders who will start to produce the seeds um then we will introduce the so
it's the flower holders who will start to produce the seeds.
Then we will introduce the,
so basically you can trade your seeds if you want.
basically you can trade your seeds if you want i don't know supply and demand i don't know how
I don't know, supply and demand.
I don't know how the market will be.
the market will be uh i don't know but that's not the main idea of the seeds obviously for some it
I don't know, but that's not the main idea of the seeds.
Obviously for some, it will make sense,
will make sense but for me it's more like um let's say we introduce because we will introduce new
but for me, it's more like,
cause we will introduce new collaborations.
collaborations that's my idea also i want to have more uh creators let's call them creators coming
I want to have more creators.
Let's call them creators coming to that space.
to that space um and so they will they will for their collection let's say like half will be
And so they will, for their collection,
let's say like half will be mintable with ICP
mintable with icp and half will be mintable with seeds so basically if you have seeds you can
and half will be mintable with seeds.
So basically if you have seeds,
you can just mint new collections.
just mint new collections uh so for free if you have flowers or or you go to a deck and you buy
So for free, if you have flowers
or you go to a decks and you buy seeds,
seeds um but yeah it's like recycling what's in real life kind of like naively a natural plan can
but yeah, it's like recycling what's in real life
kind of like naively, a natural plan can give you.
give you it's very simple actually i love it good good example walk walk um so for just for clarity
It's very simple actually.
um because you mentioned the idea of of inscribing bitcoin flowers to uh inscribing it as an ordinal
cause you mentioned the idea of inscribing Bitcoin flowers
to inscribing it as an ordinal.
is this a new this obviously would have to be a new collection i assume launched on bionic
Is this a new, this obviously would have to be
a new collection, I assume launched on Bionic?
yes no sure it's it's uh so we launched the gen 2 on icp the bdc flower gen 2 for the second
It's, so we launched the Gen2 on ICP,
the BDC flower Gen2 for the second anniversary of the flower.
anniversary of the flower so gen 2 is on icp it's animated like the first one that just for me is
So Gen2 is on ICP, it's animated like the first one
but just for me, it's like the pure version.
like the pure version i i love pixel art i don't know if i'm a pixel artist and i respect everyone
I don't know if I'm a pixel artist
and I respect everyone doing like great pixel
doing like great pixel like crypto pangs and things like that i love that um so i wanted to
like crypto pangs and things like that.
So I wanted to do it anyway.
do it anyway uh we launched it it was uh like a bumpy mint i'm sorry about it again but it was
We launched it, it was like a bumpy mint.
I'm sorry about it again, but it was quite bumpy.
quite bumpy but was uh it was a nice success the flowers are amazing and um so in about maybe a
But was a nice success, the flowers are amazing.
And so in about maybe a month,
month uh we with bubble we linked together um so you you there will be a snapshot of all the gen 2
with Bob we linked together.
So you, there will be a snapshot of all the Gen2 flowers.
flowers then you can go on bionic and you can claim a gen 2 point we we we call it gen 2.1
Then you can go on Bionic and you can claim a Gen2 point,
so it will be the almost the same flower different background orange background obviously
So it will be the almost the same flower,
different background, orange background, obviously.
um so this would be claimable for free and and then so you got your gen 2.1 reserved ordinal
So this will be claimable for free.
And then so you got your Gen2.1 reserved ordinal
on bionic you can trade it you can send it you can do whatever you want to with it
on Bionic, you can trade it, you can send it,
you can do whatever you want to with it.
and then if you want to do the whole experience so that's for me it was important like the whole
And then if you want to do the whole experience,
so that's for me, it was important,
like the whole experience, the orange peel,
experience the orange peel you actually can um can go on ordinals and have a gen 2.1 on ordinal
you actually can go on ordinals
and have a Gen2.1 on ordinal.
and then that's that's something we have to work on with the community and myself also i want to
And then that's something we have to work on
with the community and myself also.
I want to connect maybe with Magicated
connect maybe with magic elen or anyway to to to have something um going on like it's not like
or to have something going on.
Like it's not like, because there are a lot of ordinals
because because there are a lot of ordinals nft create but
in FT, great, but we need to find also the value
we need to find also the value and to give value to this collection so it's it's connecting with
and to give value to this collection.
So it's connecting with the people into that space,
the with the people into that space into the ordinal space that they are not the same that
into the ordinal space that they are not the same
icp obviously uh so that's that's going to be my month of work um yeah february we have the seeds
So that's gonna be my month of work.
Yeah, February, we have the seeds
and then we have the ordinals that's awesome a good way to start off the year so bob uh i spent
and then we have the ordinals.
That's awesome, a good way to start off the year.
So Bob, I think this was two weeks ago,
i think this was two weeks ago maybe it was last week i spent some time um uh for lack of a better
maybe it was last week, I spent some time,
for lack of a better way to say it, killing kittens.
way to say killing kittens uh walk me through what op kitten was for on bionic how dare you
Walk me through what OpKitten was on Bionic.
How dare you kill kittens?
kill kittens uh yeah so we wanted to do if you're familiar on on the bitcoin side there's a group
Yeah, so we wanted to do, if you're familiar
on the Bitcoin side, there's a group called Tapper Wizards.
called taproot wizards taproot wizards are trying to push forward this new narrative on bitcoin that
Tapper Wizards are trying to push forward
this new narrative on Bitcoin that we should be trying
you know we should be trying to help bitcoin do more and be more than just to store value in a
to help Bitcoin do more and be more
than just to store value in a medium of exchange.
medium of exchange and so they launched this taproot wizards project and as part of their
And so they launched this Tapper Wizards project
and as part of their campaign,
as part of their campaign they want to upgrade bitcoin with a new op code
they want to upgrade Bitcoin with a new Op code.
this is basically like giving bitcoin a slight increase in programmability and they want to add
This is basically like giving Bitcoin
a slight increase in programmability
and they want to add Op Cat.
op cat op cat is an op code that was originally in bitcoin um it's used to concatenate
Op Cat is an Op code that was originally in Bitcoin.
It's used to concatenate,
which is just a fancy word for join and you can uh the idea is to upgrade bitcoin op cat enables
which is just a fancy word for join.
The idea is to upgrade Bitcoin,
Op Cat enables all kinds of new innovation.
all kinds of new innovation and so in order to kind of push for this cultural awareness they
And so in order to kind of push for this cultural awareness,
released a new collection called quantum cats quantum cats was designed to kind of build a
they released a new collection called Quantum Cats.
Quantum Cats was designed to kind of build a community
community around upgrading bitcoin so to kind of honor this initiative you know pay pay tribute to
around upgrading Bitcoin.
So to kind of honor this initiative,
pay tribute to the work that they're doing,
to the work that they're doing we did a free claim on bionic uh we did a hundred thousand
we did a free claim on Bionic.
We did a hundred thousand Op kittens
op kittens and this was a good opportunity for us to dabble a bit in the dynamic nft space
and this was a good opportunity for us to dabble a bit
in the dynamic NFT space.
and you could go you um anyone could just log in the bionic and claim kittens for free uh free
And you could go, anyone could just log in to Bionic
and claim kittens for free.
Free claim, you don't even have to pay gas fees
claim you don't even have to pay gas fees or network fees because we're on icp and then you
or network fees because we're on ICP.
And then you could level up your kitten.
could level up your kit so you would essentially level up your kitten through all of the different
So you would essentially level up your kitten
through all of the different steps in the Bip Land process.
steps in the bipland process this is like the the the quantum cats team created a governance process
The Quantum Cats team created a governance process
for how things look on bitcoin it was like part meme of part reality uh probably the first time
for how things look on Bitcoin.
It was like part meme, part reality.
Probably the first time that the governance process
that the governance process on bitcoin has ever been actually written down and so we took you
on Bitcoin has ever been actually written down.
And so we took levels one through 21, there are 21 levels.
know levels one through 21 there are 21 levels and every time you level up your kitten they would
And every time you level up your kitten,
they would move to the next step in the Bip Land process.
move to the next step in the bipland um process um you know we had a little message so you could
You know, we had a little message
so you could learn about the different stages
learn about the different stages of of the bipline process and because it is kind of perilous to
And because it is kind of perilous to upgrade Bitcoin,
upgrade bitcoin there's a chance that your op kitten wouldn't make it uh you know and so our
there's a chance that your Op kitten wouldn't make it.
You know, and so our IP, rest in peace to your Op kitten
rip rest in peace to your op kitten in that case it was 84 chance of success across all 21 levels
in that case, it was 84% chance of success
so you know if all op kittens tried to make it all the way to level 21 you'd end up with about
So, you know, if all Op kittens tried to make it all the way
to level 21, you'd end up with about 2,000, 2,500
2000 2500 level 21 op kittens so that was a really fun dynamic nft project that we spun up
So that was a really fun, dynamic NFT project
that we spun up last week, carried the week before.
last week carried the week before yeah i loved it that's just like a simple use case of of helping
Yeah, I loved it as just like a simple use case
of helping people understand that.
people understand that um and in that case it was uh an nft that changed based on user action right
And in that case, it was an NFT that changed
based on user action, right?
the user had to kind of like a roll of the dice right you're like do i want to try to go for that
The user had to, kind of like a roll of the dice, right?
You're like, do I wanna try to go for that next level,
next level knowing there's a 16 chance i'm going to kill my kitten um and and you know i i kept
knowing there's a 16% chance I'm gonna kill my kitten?
And, you know, I kept getting mine to like level 15
getting mine to like level 15 and i was like well i can't stop here and then i would just kill them
and I was like, well, I can't stop here.
And then I would just kill them.
they would end up dying at like 16 17 yeah yeah let me um if anyone so uh the op cat uh if anyone's
They would end up dying at like 16, 17.
Let me, if anyone, so the Op cat,
if anyone's interested actually in learning more about that,
interested actually in learning more about that there was a song video that came out uh maybe a
there was a song video that came out maybe a week ago.
week ago um if you just google search op underscore cat song um i i swear i learned
If you just Google search Op underscore cat song,
I swear I learned pretty much everything I know about.
pretty much everything i know about like i understood op cat after listening to that song
Like I understood Op cat after listening to that song
So I highly recommend that song.
I'm assuming you watch that, Bob.
It's my favorite, it's my favorite song.
favorite it's it's my favorite song yes i i listen to that song on repeat um not not because it's
Yes, I listened to that song on repeat.
Not because it's like the greatest song ever written,
like the greatest song ever written but in terms of being technically precise technically accurate
but in terms of being technically precise,
technically accurate, but also like explaining the history
um but also like explaining the history and the context behind it and then the the bridge of the
and the context behind it.
And then the bridge of the song is actually the entire
song is actually the entire ten line code change that needs to happen in order to upgrade bitcoin
10 line code change that needs to happen
in order to upgrade Bitcoin to add Op cat,
to add op cat which was just kind of the cherry on top so definitely a big fan of that song
which was just kind of the cherry on top.
So definitely a big fan of that song.
uh it it impresses me when somebody can um creatively explain a very challenging uh topic
It impresses me when somebody can creatively explain
a very challenging topic and do it in a way
and do it in a way that actually makes it very simple to understand uh and he accomplished
that actually makes it very simple to understand.
And he accomplished everything there.
everything there so uh job well done i'm google search now it's jonathan man is the the name of
I'm Google searching out.
Jonathan Mann is the name of the gentleman
the gentleman who created this song um well let's talk through okay so we've talked through dynamic
Well, let's talk through, okay.
So we've talked through dynamic NFTs.
nfts um we've talked through you know how inscribing nfts to bitcoin is kind of um it's
We've talked through how inscribing NFTs to Bitcoin
is kind of, it's beyond just bringing NFTs to Bitcoin,
beyond just bringing nfts to bitcoin but actually you know creates this you know pay one store
but actually creates this pay one store forever,
forever you know um perhaps will probably live longer than um most other digital media uh in
perhaps we'll probably live longer than most other
digital media in existence today
existence today um because of the the nature of the bitcoin network um let's see i'm kind of curious
because of the nature of the Bitcoin network.
Let's see, I'm kind of curious if we were to go outside
if we were to go outside ordinals and if we were to go outside icp are you guys do you guys know of
Ordinals and if we were to go outside ICP,
do you guys know of any really cool innovation
any really cool innovation that's occurring within nfts that that maybe we're not familiar with
that's occurring within NFTs
that maybe we're not familiar with
between those two communities uh one thing that i would say is there are protocols like the floor
between those two communities?
One thing that I would say is there are protocols
protocol um it's essentially uh you know ripping everything out everything non-fungible uh out out
It's essentially ripping everything out,
everything non-fungible out of an NFT
of an nft and just making it a fungible token essentially you just have a pool essentially you
and just making it a fungible token essentially.
essentially you can have liquidity providers,
can have liquidity providers people put nfts in the pool and you can just trade them like they're
people put NFTs in the pool and you can just trade them
like they're straight up fungible tokens.
straight up fungible tokens uh that definitely increases your um ability to sell you know it
That definitely increases your ability to sell.
increases the the liquidity of of the nft markets but at the same time it almost devalues the
It increases the liquidity of the NFT markets,
but at the same time, it almost devalues the community
community and the culture and the art uh so pros and cons going on that path that's kind of the
and the culture and the art.
So pros and cons going on that path,
that's kind of the floor protocol
you know floor protocol and blur path um down down the nft side um the other interesting thing i'll
and blur path down the NFT side.
The other interesting thing I'll say is
say is if if you haven't seen all the excitement around farcaster and warpcast um your farcaster
if you haven't seen all the excitement
around Farcaster and Warpcast,
your Farcaster, so it's a social media platform
so it's it's a social media platform uh built on ethereum i believe um or maybe an ethyl 2 i don't
built on Ethereum, I believe,
I don't actually know where the protocol is,
actually know where the protocol is um but your like social id in farcaster is an nft and because
but your social ID in Farcaster is an NFT.
it's an nft that means you can easily trade it and so there are some low some low number farcaster
that means you can easily trade it.
And so there are some low number Farcaster IDs
id selling for a couple hundred dollars right now um and a lot of people are targeting the low
selling for a couple of hundred dollars right now.
And a lot of people are targeting
the low number of Farcaster IDs
number of farcaster id's as a means for airdrops and other things like that and so i think you know
as a means for airdrops and other things like that.
And so I think user identity is an interesting use case
user identity is an interesting use case um on the nft side that we're seeing in the in the farcaster
on the NFT side that we're seeing
in the Farcaster ecosystem over the last couple of days.
ecosystem over the last couple days would your social graph go along with the selling of the id
Would your social graph go along
with the selling of the ID?
i think the id is unique from the user um in an interesting way so i don't think it's actually
I think the ID is unique from the user
So I don't think it's actually like selling your account.
like selling your account it's just selling your uh id number essentially i think i believe
It's just selling your ID number, essentially, I believe.
there does seem to be um i feel like there is something about being able to sell a social graph
I feel like there is something
about being able to sell a social graph
that i i find um both uh maybe disgusting and also very interesting at the same time like on
that I find both maybe disgusting
and also very interesting at the same time.
Like on the disgusting side,
the disgusting side it'd be the idea of you know like somebody creates a twitter handle gets a lot
it'd be the idea of somebody creates a Twitter handle,
of followers by doing you know uh low hanging fruit kind of things and then sells that to somebody
by doing low-hanging fruit kind of things
and then sells that to somebody
so that somebody can kind of like jump start their twitter twitter activity that's probably
so that somebody can kind of jumpstart
That's probably the disgusting side.
the disgusting side but i do feel like there's some innovation there that it i don't know it
But I do feel like there's some innovation there
it just seems like there's something there
just seems like there's something there that could be really cool that you could use that
that could be really cool
that you could use that kind of a framework for doing.
kind of a framework for doing but um it doesn't sound like that's what farcaster is anyways ludo
But it doesn't sound like that's what Farcaster is anyways.
i'd be interested you know it's sorry but this also feels for me like more like an influencer
No, it's sorry, but this also feels for me
like more like an influencer thing,
thing uh like how to make money in in a beer market kind of i don't really see the innovation
like how to make money in a beer market kind of.
I don't really see the innovation.
maybe i've been too too trained from the uh past two years then yeah um i'm always interested in
Maybe I've been too trained from the past two years then.
I'm always interested in like new products
like uh new products of just thinking thinking through things from like a whole different
of just thinking through things
from like a whole different perspective
perspective and then and then by like taking that two more steps down the line that it actually
and then by like taking that two more steps down the line
that it actually creates something different
creates something different that that uh maybe the world has never seen and can be used in in
that maybe the world has never seen
and can be used in different ways
different ways than than like our traditional model so there's something i feel like uh i don't
than like our traditional model.
So there's something I feel like,
I don't know, maybe there,
know maybe there but um ludo i'd be interested in your thoughts of like what's going on outside
but Ludo, I'd be interested in your thoughts
of like what's going on outside ICP,
icp outside ordinals that is is innovative or or interesting um i'm i'm trying to connect
outside ordinals that is innovative or interesting.
I'm trying to connect with brands
with brands like how to how to really connect digital and physical for me that's uh i think
like how to really connect digital and physical.
For me that's, I think they are like super interested
they are they are they are like super interested but they don't understand anything and
but they don't understand anything.
And it's in between, it was hype,
it's in between it it it was hype so now it's not very interesting and the other side is like wow
so now it's not very interesting.
And the other side is like, wow, that's super interesting
that's super interesting and we need to be to build a community because people understand like
and we need to build a community
because people understand like the value of a product,
uh the value of a product it's it's about the community like she like i was i was talking with
it's about the community.
Like I was talking with a friend
uh with a friend and he's working for for a team let's say a football team and and like
and he's working for a team, let's say a football team.
And you can't really sell jerseys like every year
you don't you you can't really sell gels as like every year if you change your team
and you can you can ask people to always pay like 100 bucks uh every time you change uh one player
And you can ask people to always pay like 100 bucks
every time you change one player.
so let's say what about you give the some an nft or a ticket you send a digital ticket to
So let's say what about you give an NFT or a ticket,
you sell a digital ticket to someone,
someone you have this ticket you're a fan of the club you have this ticket and and you can just
you have this ticket, you're a fan of the club,
you have this ticket and you can just claim a new jersey
claim a new jersey every every year if you want to recycle your old one you you can't always ask
every year if you wanna recycle your old one.
You can't always ask people to just throw money
ask people to to just throw money and and buy new new stuff and not recycle so for for me like um
and buy new stuff and not recycle.
So for me, like it doesn't go that super far
um it doesn't go that that that's super far but i'm trying to build uh an experience with uh
but I'm trying to build an experience
with a brand I'm working with.
with the brand i'm working with uh it's it's a it's a fashion collaboration kind of on physical
It's a fashion collaboration kind of
uh clothes but they want to do something also um digital and to connect with uh with with the
But they wanna do something also digital
and to connect with the flower power community.
flower power community and so so the idea is it's it's this is this will be more for the punks
And so the idea is this will be more for the punks
because for me the punks are like the visual anarchy they don't produce seeds they don't give
because for me, the punks are like the visual anarchy.
They don't produce seeds,
they don't give a fuck about seeds.
a fuck about seeds they are just they are cool and for me it's like okay if you have a punk in
They are just, they are cool.
And for me, it's like, okay,
if you have a punk in your wallet,
your wallet uh you can go in stores and have an experience or it's not about having a t-shirt
you can go in stores and have an experience
or it's not about having a T-shirt
but more like having a special experience for you uh brought by the brand and and and me
but more like having a special experience for you
brought by the brand and me
but because you own this special punk so you can also be part of this experience if you go to
but because you own this special punk
so you can also be part of this experience
if you go to let's say Tokyo or Shanghai.
let's say tokyo or fungi so that's for me it's also that's maybe the innovation not like
So that's, for me, it's also, that's maybe the innovation
not like artifact did with Nike.
artifact did with nike it's not about selling again like shoes every month it's more like
It's not about selling again, like shoes every month.
It's more like NFT is a ticket.
nft is a ticket and through this ticket you are you are someone special
And through this ticket, you are someone special.
And the brands or people or creators,
and the brands or people or creators they have to make you special feel you you are special
they have to make you special.
Feels you, you are special
because you are like into this club, like private club.
because you're you're like into this club like private club yeah no that that's really well said
Yeah, that's really well said.
And you're kind of touching on the idea
and you're kind of touching on the idea that um you know that brands that brands that do it right
that brands that do it right
understand that it's a relationship and an experience
understand that it's a relationship and an experience and um and not just a sales pitch
and not just a sales pitch, right?
right and so you're kind of saying like look the the the the idea is that um nfts are all about
And so you're kind of saying like, look,
the idea is that NFTs are all about experience
experience and and um you know community and a shared way of thinking and that's that's exactly
and community and a shared way of thinking.
And that's exactly how brands
how brands should think about themselves as well so tap into that yeah i think we also we also the
should think about themselves as well.
Yeah, I think we also the, I don't know,
the the i don't know was it rolling stones or the times like like nfts are dead um i mean web three
was it Rolling Stones or the times like NFTs are dead?
I mean, Web3 is really a hype world now.
is really a hype world now no i don't think so it's i think it's really we need to innovate and
It's, I think it's really, we need to innovate
and projects have to, yeah, to think more.
and and projects have to um yeah to think more just just i mean to take the tech and and do
Just, I mean, to take the tech
and do things also for the community,
and do things also for the community for the people not not about just i mean we all need
for the people, not about just,
I mean, we all need to leave.
to leave i need to leave i need to make money to pay my bills of course but then it's fine like
I need to make money to pay my bills, of course,
don't need more just but need to do things also to change the system but because what's blockchain
Just, but need to do things also to change the system.
But because what's blockchain?
blockchain was was made for that it was not made for uh sorry just for white uh young kids to make
Blockchain was made for that.
It was not made for, sorry, just for white young kids
to make millions dollar on selling monkeys.
minions dollar on selling monkeys that's all i love it i love it i'm i wouldn't fit in the
I wouldn't fit in the young component of that,
young component of that but uh i certainly don't need to make a million so that's right um well i
but I certainly need to make millions.
I don't think I need to make millions.
love i love that is uh such a great spot to end it on in terms of just what our our what blockchain
It's such a great spot to end it on
in terms of just what blockchain is about.
is about and and um in terms of uh so anyone listening who wants to learn more wants to follow
And in terms of, so anyone listening
who wants to learn more, wants to follow you guys,
you guys how can they learn more about flower power and watch your work luto and and the same
how can they learn more about flower power
and watch your work, Ludo?
And the same question for you, Bob,
question for you bob in terms of following bionic uh twitter yeah sure at uh at the luto account
in terms of following Bionic.
Sure, at the Ludo account here
here that everyone can see as a speaker yes sure or the pdc flower one for the project
that everyone can see as a speaker?
The PDC flower one for the project.
then we have a discord also if you want to join it's great like we talk more um yeah cool awesome
Then we have a Discord also if you want to join.
We talk more and yeah, cool.
yeah and on my end uh definitely reach out um you can dm me i'm pretty responsive to my dms on twitter
Yeah, and on my end, definitely reach out.
I'm pretty responsive to my DMs on Twitter.
if you're interested in you know doing something on bionic as a creator uh we're really looking
If you're interested in doing something
we're really looking forward
forward to this collaboration with luto i think having btc flowers yeah you know stored a hundred
to this collaboration with Ludo.
I think having BTC flowers,
stored 100% on chain on Bitcoin forever
percent on chain on bitcoin forever uh is a really nice narrative and i think along with the dynamic
is a really nice narrative.
And I think along with the dynamic NFTs,
nft there's lots of potential here for uh some innovative things that we can do kind of combining
there's lots of potential here
for some innovative things that we can do,
kind of combining the best of ICP and Bitcoin
the best of icp and bitcoin into one on bionic so dm me if you're interested i can add you to our
So DM me if you're interested.
I can add you to our invite only creators Discord.
invite only creators discord uh we can talk about how bionic can support you as a creator
We can talk about how Bionic can support you as a creator.
love it love it i really do appreciate uh both of your guys's time and and and really your
I really do appreciate both of your guys' time
and really your contributions to our industry
contributions to our industry and and to the icp community so uh thank you very much and um
and to the ICP community.
And everyone listening, thank you so much.
everyone listening thank you so much give a quick share of this space if you learned anything and
Give a quick share of the space if you learned anything
and show some love to both Ludo and Bob.
show some love to both luto and bob and see you guys next monday for uh the next multi-chain
And I'll see you guys next Monday
for the next Multi-Chain Monday.
monday thank you everyone