Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you are in the world, this is Dr. Darskoin coming through the Obertal Command account today. The next day we're going to be having a chat with Nordicus, or at least the team from Nordicus. Just bear with us a moment as the space begins to fill in, we bring the right speakers up.
Of course, if you haven't heard an OC Twitter space before, we do typically tour these per week. If you enjoy them, if you're enjoying the conversation, you are invited to share them via Tweets or in Telegrams or Discord, wherever you are, helps for the word of the projects that we are speaking with. Now I'm going to bring up
Max. And we'll bring up Mad Men as well just for a quick conversation. No Mad Men's not part of that.
and madman can you hear me
What am I to with madman is just leave you there as a speaker because usually you have some good questions that you ask me behind scenes so we'll leave you there as a speaker and maybe a little bit later on Sorry about that my my headsets for again batteries low I've got to charge it How I say
I'm otherwise doing fine. I just wanted to tune in before Terris Space has gotten started recording just to say hi. I'm a little daily dollar short on the on the case. So I'm going to try and do my research in the background. I can dig upon it. Yeah, fantastic. And as a saying, I'll leave you up to recently.
Yeah. And if you do have a question, just, just, um, do you feel free to jump in before your battery dies, okay? You got it. You got it. Um, if anything, I might just, uh, you know, step down as listener and, uh, charge it up for you to come back up because I could always like, you know, repress and speak again or like shoot you with DM or something like that. I know#
And I'm going to delete the dollar short before and the last one. My question didn't even get in. Oh shit, there's a visitor. Gotta go. Gotta go. Alright, so we've got Max is on his way up to the stage. Max is who we'll be speaking with today. Head of research. Risk Harbour. And is behind the scenes.
at Nordicus. Now, I should be up in just a second. Share the terraspaces, whose icon you've just seen in top-up clear spaces, of course, records all the spaces across the cosmos. You can check out pastterraspaces@terraspaces.org. It's a great little resource. I love using the website when I need to do some background research on projects myself.
and so cannot speak highly enough. Also, if you're someone who enjoys listening to things in Double Time, my ADHD brings loves of Double Time, so I also listen to it. Therospaces.org on or TherospacesRather on Spotify. So you can find there, with that being said, Max is having some trouble coming up. I'll try to add it as a speaker twice.
I think we're in business here.
I don't know, didn't guys drink? We'll try that. Third time lucky. Here we go.
max of proving you as we speak, hopefully this time it goes through.
Loud and clear. Can you hear me? Yes. Okay, we're winning. This is half way there. Max, how are we this morning? All afternoon evening. Where are you doing it? I'm in San Francisco. So it's way about noon for me. Perfect. So you've eaten some food. You're feeling anything?
you ready to have a conversation? Yeah, I am. That's fantastic. So as I was just saying a moment ago, the spaces typically go for about an hour. They don't have to, but usually they do. They will be kept at an hour because I have a meeting to jump onto at an hour mark. But in that time what I want to do is, yeah, basically
a conversation with you, help get the help with the people get to know Nordic is a little better. The floor will be open up in the middle of the call if people feel cool to ask some questions there most certainly. Welcome to, in fact I encourage that more often than not when I open the floor. You know, it gets a little quiet and people get a little bit of stage right.
Nothing to fear here. We're all buddies feel free to come up now some questions I know we've got some big minds in the call like madman mba. I'm sure that there'll be a good conversation could conversations through flow With that being said at the end of the call sort of do the final you know call to actions and summaries and all the rest of it but to get us stuff
max have about just because it's a small call at the moment. This will go as time goes on and more of course share it in our discord and telegram afterwards but for the people that may or may not know you, can we get a quick bit of background on you? We've done in what has brought you to work on Nordicus.
Yeah, sure. So my background actually did my undergrad math at Michigan and then did just finished it up with masters at MIT in Econ last summer. So I guess my focus there was always kind of mechanism design things algorithmic came theory.
which happened to be a very good fit for crypto. I got involved in crypto while I was still in undergrad actually been working at risk harbor for about a year and a half and we kind of saw a need for a fixing come protocol on
Terra on the Cosmoverse in general. And so we just kind of decided, let's go ahead and build it. We have all the resources and the brains and engineering talent. So we decided, let's go ahead and build a fixed income protocol that's as good as we can do. And it was kind of a
pretty open market on Cosmos for that sector as well. This of course isn't just where you've started. You spent some time with Riscava. I actually believe that Raff or Ralph, not sure how to say the name, but they're chatted with one of your co-workers a while back in the Riscava.
and I have a feeling you were on that call too, is that accurate assessment? Yeah, I think so. Fantastic. So, risk-carb is originally where you guys were. Is there anything to relay voice sort of, "Dragon to Nordicus," comprehensively? Is there anything to relay on the risk-carb for instance?
I think we're still going strong on risk harbor side as well. We're we've launched new vaults recently on several chains and if you look at the landscape of insurance protocols actually ton of them kind of blowing up recently putting their funds in places that they should
And luckily we have been, have avoided that carnage, which is kind of swept through the industry and especially after the FTX collapse a lot of other protocols were hit pretty hard by that with severe payouts after that. So I think that
is going really strongly and I think Nordic is a kind of complimentary business to that and there's a lot of synergies there where it's fixing income and insurance and together those two things are really about risk management and reducing variance in investing.
So yeah, I think there's a strong synergies, but yeah, we can move on to anarchists since that's what we're here to talk about. Yeah, 100% and so the team wise the team that's behind Nordicus are there extra people outside of risk cover? Or is it literally just the same team that are working on Nordicus?
Yeah, so we have dedicated engineers who are working on the auticus or not working on our scubber at the moment. Fantastic. And so for anyone that is tuning in, it is a complimentary product essentially to
risk harbour being that there is fixed interest and you're basically providing a risk management or protocol rather for risk management across the board. Let's talk about Nordicus at E-Life 5 and then AD-Dive level.
Yeah, so I guess the place to start is that if you think about yields in DeFi, I think there's a lot of uncertainty about where those yields are, how much the yields are going to be worth. And in particular, that's because there's a lot of token and
missions that start to come into the picture. And when you have a bunch of token missions that you're counting on for your rewards, there is kind of a bunch of uncertainty there. Two factors. One of them is the protocol going to continue emitting at the same rate.
And the second one is what's the price of that token that they're meeting going to be? And so that can cause a lot of uncertainty. It can be hard for kind of risk of worse investors or people who have certain mandates that they need to hit to meet those risk
to the point where they feel comfortable harvesting high yields that do exist, just because the interplay of those two factors that token price and amount of emissions is a lot of uncertainty for them. So the idea of non-accus is,
allow trading between people who are willing to accept that risk. In fact, maybe even want more of that risk and return for more expected returns with the more risk of worse side, which might be retail investors or institutional
players who have certain mandates that they need to follow. So that was the main idea behind the holocus. Any questions on that or should I drive into the specifics of how we do it? No, of course it's us. We're happy for you to continue to do all of it.
Yeah, so the way that we actually do this is we take a yield generating token. So maybe like a Luna X is a good example. It's kind of a staking derivative that generates yield. And then we can take that token and split it
into a yield and a principal token. Now the principal token in three months say whatever the maturity timeline that we said is in three months the principal token is going to be worth one Luna basically. And the yield token is going to be worth whatever yield the crude
on that token over in the three month period. And since the principle is known, right, that allows us to generate fixed rate positions by looking at positions that only hold the principle tokens. And then the way that we craft those positions is after you
mint your yield and principal tokens. You sell your yield tokens to people who are more risk tolerant or who want that extra expected return. And you end up building a position that's exclusively principal tokens. And then you have a fixed rate.
position with no risk from the token emission rate or the price of the token that's being emitted that is triggering the rewards. So, certainly. And I've had a few conversations recently with protocols such as Prism and also
chat with Zodiac just a day. Both have features of refraction and splitting into principle and your tokens. How does Nordic is differentiate itself from Saicrism and Zodiac? Yeah, so I think obviously that core mechanism of
Yield splitting is pretty common throughout the space and it's not just you know prism. It's also a bunch of players on main on Ethereum who are also doing similar things and I think it's been around for a while. I think the core way that we're trying to differentiate is kind of leaning into our expertise and trying
trying to build markets that are as frictionless as possible for these tokens. Because at the end of the day, the splitting is only one component. There's also the trading that has to go on. You can split the yield in principle, but if nobody wants to buy the yield tokens, because
there's a lot of friction in the market, then the protocol doesn't work very well. So that's what we've been focusing on and what we are focused on in terms of our roadmap is trying to bring those markets to as frictionless as state and as expressive as state as possible to allow trades of the yield and principal tokens.
and of the principle and underlying tokens as much as possible? Sure, and when it comes to the trading of those tokens, is that going to be taking place on, say, a short report or are you planning on sending up your own marketplace for them? How is that going to work specifically? Yeah, we're setting up, I mean, currently in our
the version that's live now, we do have they are trading on our support, but they just don't have enough flexibility in terms of the type of market that's needed. So we're actually working on our own, which is launching very soon, our own AMM. And then after that, we're going to be looking at some non-AMM solution.
potentially including order books. Fantastic. Let's dig into that a little bit. Your own solutions is an mm that you're working on functionality UX-wise. What can users expect when they are using it? And sort of do you have some more concrete
time goals in place for when it will be launched.
I think it'll certainly be one for the month and I think probably sooner than that. We're just, I was talking to the engineers working on a yesterday, so it's very close to being done. It's a deployed on mainnet actually right now, but
In our testing capacity. So it's very close to being done. Yeah, let me talk a little bit about how it works. I think one of the things about fixed income is that you know a little bit more than you do in the standard case of just
two tokens trading. You actually know that at some point in the future, the principal token, which would be like the P Luna X and the Luna X are going to be trading one to one. So what you want to do is design your market maker
such that you know that those two tokens are going to be worth the same in the end. So at the end, you want kind of a stable swapping curve. Before that, there's some uncertainty. But the uncertainty is really only with the rates of the underlying token.
So at what rate is Luna trading? So that uncertainty is less than you would normally see in, say, an E-BTC pair on Ethereum and Mainnet, right? So the shape of the curve can be shallower, which means less
slippage, which means you get more bang for your buck basically. And as time goes on, the maturity data approaches and the principal token, which is basically what we call a zero coupon bond, which is a fancy terminology for its work
worth $1.00 at maturity. That becomes almost, I mean, if you think about, if I give you $1 tomorrow, it's almost worth the same as a dollar today. So we can trade them more like a stable swap pair.
And regarding the audiobook, you said the audiobook is the next step. Are there some details you could profile on that? And maybe it's all just some of the challenges that you faced along the way of the design process and then some maybe unforeseen circumstances that have a reason during that time that you've had to over
how you have overcome these things. Yeah, I think the real challenge with order books on Shane, there's two of them. There's one which is a technical challenge with the memory and computer
Expense of running an order book and matching and these kind of things I see that it's kind of a secondary problem I think the primary problem is actually the fact that blocks Take a while and that the process for building these blocks
It's not clear that that's going to be possible with the
current systems that are in place for getting transactions on chain because you're going to have issues like we have with AMMs but even more severe with front running and sandwich chain and all these issues with sniping that we see. So I think ultimately the reason that we want to have
an order book like system. And I would also classify kind of a uniswapy three style concentrated liquidity as pretty similar to an order book. Because if you kind of take a limit, they look pretty similar from a research perspective. The goal is to have that so people can express their information
and their preferences over these risky assets appropriately. And so there's less kind of value leakage to people who are sniping stale orders. So that's the end goal is be as flexible as possible and that's what an order book allows you to do.
We got it. And the question that I just had pop up moment ago in my mind was around the redeeming. So the, for example, the maturity date of a peach open is one year. And so
In this current state, the market has been very quiet and array of rug pools and things over the course of the last few years.
For 10% what do you think the update is going to be like for people? Do you think there's trust there from people to have their being a position for at least the next year on a new protocol?
Well, I think in terms of even you look at the execution of how this actually works, it's not that complicated. So if you think about maybe a compound or an anchor or something that's
is like a very sophisticated blending product. There's a lot more moving parts there, a lot more ways that things could go wrong than just a simple yield splitting protocol. I mean, I could explain it in one minute, right? We just take the
yield generating token, say Luna X, then we split it into two parts, okay, principal and yield and at maturity, all that happens is we withdraw all the tokens that have been generated, okay.
Repay the principal token holders with their principal and the remainder goes to the yield. So if I can explain in 30 seconds, that's pretty simple. And so there's just not very many places for stuff to go wrong in the code. So I would actually say that the
The whole goal basically is we're taking the risk out of what could happen to osmosis or astroport or whatever token is being provided to supplement the yield. That's the bigger risk than any kind of
protocol level issue on the nautical side just because it's so simple. And then once you have those principal tokens, even if something happens to osmosis or as long as the initial principal funds are lost, fight.
whatever exchange or whatever yield generating protocol is using the funds then whoever's holding the fixed income protocol will still earn their fixed rewards. Yeah go to succinct and very concise I appreciate that. You use Luna X's
the example for the revenue generating token or the auto company token there, are you planning on, you know, will this be workable with, you know, for example, I can see backbone labs are in the in the call today. Will this be operational with the tokens from say backbone labs and other liquid-staking products
calls that provide auto-company tokens? Yeah, absolutely. It works with anything. I just use that example just because it's on the tip of my tongue, but it works with any, and I don't even know if we have a pool for that right now. I think we have pools for like AstroPort, LP tokens right now. So,
Yeah, it works with any yield generating token. So of course, and it's one of the things where the deeper the liquidity, the better off it is. So how are we attracting liquidity? Or how, rather, are you track? What is, what measures are being taken to incentivize traffic liquidity?
Yeah, so I think there's two aspects here. One of them is how do we get liquidity in the system? And the other one is how do we make the liquidity that we have go as far as possible? And I think they're kind of related.
And we're focusing right now on making sure that the liquidity goes as far as possible so that we don't need to do a bunch of emissions or other kinds of things that other exchanges might be doing to bring in a bunch of liquidity that
you actually use it properly don't really need. So that's our goal right now. I think there are plans possibly to bootstrap liquidity if necessary. But if we're going to do that, we want to make sure that the liquidity
So that you're not just throwing money at the window. Like I think basically it has been happening in a lot of AMM particles recently where they're just sublimating.
subsidizing, bringing money into a pretty inefficient system, and that hurts the pokeholders in the end. 100%. On the question I have was around, this is terror specific at the moment. Is that right?
The contracts are flexible enough to be deployed on any of the Cosmos chains. But I'm glad you're here. Great. Now we'll be deployed on Terra. And what do you say being the next Chinese that make the most sense?
I'm not sure we've had formal discussions about this yet. Internally, because I think we've been focusing more on the product than about expansion. We want to nail a product first and then expand, but I think you know,
some of the bigger chains, especially Osmo XS to keep in mind. But I think we haven't looked into it too much because we're really focused on nailing a product first and then seeing where the best place to expand is.
Right, and so it was November, I believe you released an auticus beta. What's the feedback being like so far?
I think it's been great so far we've had we did a kind of a guarded launch just having a limited amount that was allowed to be minted and most of that got used up I think so that was a great response
Ultimately, we were able to see what kinks needed to be ironed out in the product. Thanks to that. I think it was a pretty successful beta launch. Like I said, we're launching our next version very soon.
love it. I'm just looking through a couple of things, sort of playing with the website and doing a few different things, all we're being chatting. Functionally, I was using the ability. It's super simple. There's nothing too technical about it. One of the things I did noticed, oh that was it, in the
In a recent tweet you were saying or someone on the team at least was saying that Participating users will be considered for huge surprises and so I'm just curious to know if you have any more details about what those surprises may be If I reveal those details, they wouldn't be a surprise anymore with it but
Yeah, so you get it you know no No little mini alpha drops for the crew today You're gonna leave a phone. Sorry. I cannot drop any alpha. I think it will be very surprising What I'll do here is we are arriving at the sort of halfway point of the goal and as I said at the very start
the purpose of the outcome and agenda of the core purposes to help educate the people, let them get to learn about Nordicus. The agenda was that it was going to be sort of half an hour of you and I having a conversation and then I'm going to open the floor up so that time is happening basically now. So if you're sitting there with some questions in your mind, Madman, you said you might have some
questions earlier, definitely bring yourself up as a speaker, MBJG. I see you all in the audience there. I feel like there might be some good questions that we can riff on for a little bit. And then the end of the call, we'll go back to the sort of CTAs in the rest of it, but I'm going to put the call out there for Madman.
I'm going to do what I'm going to do. I'm going to do things differently today because you love this invitation. I'm going to invite to speak. Here we go. I invite to speak you as well and invite to speak you. Okay, so now they've all got something on their phone that will say there's an invitation.
Here we go, and B is up. And B, you at the floor, right up. Hey guys, thanks and a great talk so far. We look very clear, especially compared to someone with the other similar protocols I've listened to on spaces recently.
Just a quick question. Maybe I'll have another one is regarding future funding. I think Nordicus receives some emergency runway from Tara. Will you be seeking further community funding? Or are you guys set? Thank you.
I think we're self-renewed. As we approach the launch of V2, I don't think we will need any more of that.
that you could run into issues if there's not enough demand-side price pressure for those tokens to make sure that the protocol could work efficiently.
Yeah, well, ultimately, it needs to find an equilibrium where people are trading off risk. So if you're on the principal token side, you're holding fixed yield, you're getting a lower variance return. And so in the end, you need to trade off expected return for that.
And that tradeoff of the expected return for risk premium basically is what needs to find an equilibrium so that the people who end up holding the yield tokens, which are riskier, are getting paid enough more in expectation that
they feel comfortable. So at the end of the day, that's an open market operations thing that needs to find an equilibrium. And if we try to mess up, if we try to go in and incentivize on one side or the other, all that's going to do is make it take longer
to find an equilibrium there. So ultimately, if the principal tokens are earning too much yield, then people will come in on the principal side and they'll want to buy more of the yield tokens, and that will make the, or they'll want to sell more yield tokens.
That will make the yield tokens cost less. And so the expected return for purchasing yield tokens will go up. And so it will bounce out that way. Ultimately, there's not really a question of whether there will be no demand. It's just where the
where the equilibrium is, where that price will settle. Because in a situation where there's no demand, it basically means there's no yield. Yeah. Right. Now, have you considered LP state derivatives in
your in your journey here because I know like Spectrum Protocol has their C tokens, you know, which you're basically their principles for like the LP positions that you know that they're setting when they when they compound and I'm wondering if you've you know if you
you thought of doing something like that or if you look in and incorporate something like that with your future endeavors. Yeah, so I believe I've already had a pool in the beta that was based on an LP token. I think it was based on USDT,
USDC pool if I remember correctly. So we have thought about that. There's a couple kind of benefits to this. One is that there's additional yield from the trading and making that into a fixed yield product is nice. The other thing that's kind
of something to keep in mind is that when you're an LP you have market risk, inventory risk, and that can... So what does that mean basically if you're an LP in a pool, say, Luna, USDC or something?
Then you're exposed you have half your reserves in Luna you have half of them in USDC So you kind of have inventory risk on that Luna and then you have Some stale order sniping basically impermanent loss risk as well and so
Those are not risks that noticus, the principle yield splitting primitive is designed to address. It's really designed to address the trading fee accumulate
So it's unclear whether it would be desirable on a risky pair because you're getting rid of some of the uncertainty, but the vast majority of the uncertainty is still out there due to that impermanent loss risk and the inventory risk.
So that's why we did it with stable coin pair, where there isn't much risk in terms of USDT or USDC depagging, but there is that uncertainty about how much trading is going to go on and how many rewards are going to be accrued in the pool.
Gotcha. Now I see that the protocol is like dealing with a matter of like maternity dates like this expiration date by which I'm not exactly sure what happens completely. I can only imagine.
understand correctly, DIDEX, you know, moving into cosmos was working on a short token concept where you could open up like a, I would guess like a, you know, like a one week or, you know, say three month kind of token that would, you know,
You know, represent a short position on, you know, on a asset like if there's something like that. Could you, could you see any benefits or, you know, risks to, you know, like the type of
LP pair that kind of sits down to neutral where you have the main asset paired with the short. I'm thinking back to how we had a mirror protocol and being able to long for
and short-partement at the same time and having like, you know, delta-neutral gains. Do you see anything in that, you know, in exploring, you know, positive fixed rates, you know, for yield?
Well, I think the interesting part about longing and shorting is actually longing and shorting yield, right? Because what this allows you to do, if you want to go long yield, you can purchase the yield tokens. If you want to go short yield, you can purchase the principal tokens and get into that fixing composition.
So if you think about it, a fixed income position is actually short rates. If you go in by a US Treasury bill right now, which is a fixed income bond, right, then your short rates, because if rates come down,
all the sudden your fixed income rate is very nice right because you're earning 8% and the wheel risk for your rate is maybe 3% so now you're making a gain on that and I think that's what Monica's a lot of you do is long
shorting on basically placing a bet on whether tokens will continue to be admitted at the same rate and whether the token price that those emissions are denominated in is going to continue to stay at its current level or the
up or go down. So I'll just, if, if, maybe say, if asked reports are meeting at a certain rate, right, and you think that that rate is going to slow down because you have some, you've been reading the governance forums and you've been seeing that there's a post about about them slowing down emissions.
right? Then you can place a bet that is you can get into a fixed yield position there. Okay? And then if that happens, all the sudden a vote passes emissions come down.
Now you can exit your position. You've made some money because you bet on that. Those yields coming down. You don't even have to wait for maturity to make that money. You can just enter the position and exit the position after the information about rates coming down as revealed.
Does that make sense? Does that answer the question? Yes, it does. I like that perspective. I'm going to chill in there for a while. JG, I saw you had your hand up.
Hey guys, yeah, you know, I'm just trying to understand I was just on the site Is this this is like prism like they're fracking yield? System with futures is that what it is like a maturity like I'm kind of just trying to wrap my head around What the market is and are you gonna be doing this with multiple assets multiple?
Yeah, so we let me answer the second question first. Yes, we are going to be doing this multiple assets. Yeah, we're just looking at our beta right now. And then the first question is it's similar to prison with the refracting yield.
It's similar in that we have the principle and yield token mechanism underlying it. And the maturity dates basically that that is when the fixed income
period rolls over. So that's when all the principal tokens that you have are now redeemable for one to one underlying token. So maybe your P Luna is redeemable for Luna.
one to one. And then your yield tokens are then redeemable for however much yield has accrued over the maturity period. So it's three months like how much yield has been accrued over those three
months, including the token emissions as well, that were associated. Are you guys going to have your own governance token system or is this a real yield type of thing? How are you guys controlling the platform?
Yeah, we have plans to launch a token at some point. Right now the platform is using yields from other sources, right? And just trying to give an opportunity for people who have
of interests that coincide to trade with each other. I think this is something I really wish people in DeFi would think about more, which is how does the protocol generate value by finding people who would benefit
from trading with each other. In this protocol, we have people who are risk averse, they want fixed yield, and people who are willing to take on additional risk for additional expected returns. We can match them up, but the goal of the protocol is match them up so that they can
have a mutually beneficial trade and that's the goal of the protocol right now and yeah we are finding out launching a tab again some more. Cool I really I really like the whole connecting like P2P kind of system. I'm totally about that and I dig it. It was good. This is cool.
Fantastic. Good questions there from Madman, MB, JG. Just checking in. Is there anything else that you guys want to know while you're up here? Anyone that is listening, if you are still sitting on the sidelines, we want to perhaps have a question answered. Now is your time to jump up.
Those are the questions I have for now. I think I'll just be mulling this over on tarispaces.org, you know, to kind of take reference, take notes.
I feel like a lot was discussed. You know faster than my handker right it down so I'll be going back to Terrispaces.org to try and get that.
I fell a fellow pen man. I'm a fan of the pen to slower, much slower but it feels like it feels more human. I'll be up in the sword to ride. Okay well I've got some questions I can press on with. First of the first words just being, are there any sort of partnerships, collaborations, anything in the world?
that we can discuss and that makes sense to you. Max. Well, I think I already mentioned this energy with core risk harbor product. Once you partner those fixed yields with protection as well, then you really have the true risk free rate of DeFi.
And I think that was the initial goal of these two products synergizing so well together. Another thing I think anything that produces sustainable yield is going to be a killer synergy, especially the, we know that
But as long as these blockchains exist, there's going to be emissions from consensus itself. So the liquid-staking derivatives are going to be, I think, huge... I think they're already a big part of what's happening in DeFi now. And I think they're going to become an even bigger part.
fixed rates on those are going to be important. I've got a great question for you and then I'll shift it back over to JJ on such answered. But that to me just jump to that. There's a point of difference there when people are asking what's the difference between yourself and Prism or Zaryax. Is that you
You will have the way I'm imagining it. There will be a risk-carb button that's integrated on the website, which is as you're choosing which route you're going to go to high risk or conservative. It will say, "Would you like to ensure this with risk-carb?" Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the way I'm imagining it.
into that, you would have you be generating whatever yield it is effectively insured by risk alpha. Yeah, that's absolutely the goal. And that was kind of the first vision that we had. And then I think we everything else got built around that idea of a seamless
fixed income plus protection in very few clicks. Yeah, very cool. I've got questions for you on that. We'll come back to that. Daiji, Jumping Brother. Hey, so you know, you started talking about LSD, Liquid Staking derivatives and if you are looking for
collaborations, backbone labs is down there and they resurrected Beluna and we would, I think I've actually reached out and wrote Risk Harbor and we spoke and I left the contract information to have it updated and I don't know what necessary to participate on this platform but we're always willing to synergize if you want to do that.
Yeah, absolutely. I think, uh, wait, can you guys hear me? Let's for sure, uh, keep a line open and discuss that further because I think we're always looking for new yield sources.
Love it. The question I have then is regarding the fee structure on risk harbor. Let's say for example, person A is going to the principal token route and is wanting their 10% ish.
10% rewards per year. What are the fees collected on the risk harborside and what's the profit be? Less fees is what I'm getting to.
Right, so again, we have a situation which is really about what the market is going to bear. And I think this is another thing that I think we could do better in defy of understanding is that prices
which include the prices for premiums are not set by the protocol, they're set by what the market is willing to bear. And so ultimately that is something that I can't answer about without more context on what the
protocol is how risky it is and how risky the underwriters, the potential underwriters would think of it as because ultimately what it has to be if we want a functioning protocol where people are trading back and forth and making each other better off, both sides have
to be engaging at a price that makes sense for them. And that is dependent on how risky the underlying critical is, that makes sense. You got it. Yeah. Essentially, it's out of your hands to determine its market forces were so.
Yeah, exactly. I mean, and even if we do determine it, which I mean, we set some parameters for the AMM at risk harbor, even if we do do that.
Right. We still have to set it according to what we think the market would set it as because it's really about setting a fair price for both sides.
Got it. So with the last sort of, you know, 10 to 13 minutes that we've got here, I just want to check in, is there anything that we haven't touched on yet, anything that you wanted to speak about any messages, maps that you wanted to convey that we've just not yet jumped onto, because all it makes is that we cover
Those topics before I go asking any other questions.
Yeah, I think I just let me just reiterate that you know the the data is live right now. Certainly go check it out. And then we're launching soon another the next version, which I think is going to be a
a lot more comprehensive. I'm going to have better market makers, which use liquidity better. So this is going to be more ability to trade back and forth and enter those fixed yield positions. So certainly check it out now and check it out.
soon when we launch our next version. Love it. And regarding, you know, as I was scrolling through your discord, as I was reading through the docs, I was going through your password of course, the Twitter is relatively young. There's only 30 posts I think that are being on the
to put out rather on the Twitter since it's inception. A generic question that always gets asked is, you know, is there going to be a token from what I can see in this card? No is the current answer, but is there any update you can provide on that?
I mean, I think the plan is eventually. So that is the plan. It's ultimately also about there's certain things that we need to make sure are in order on our end, especially since we're based in the United States.
So there's those things need to be sorted out before anything can happen on the token front. Sure, what would be the considerations for you? Like what when you look at it and you consider the possibility of having a token in future, what would be the why behind having it and what are the considerations? Is it possible that you could have
Nordicus operate and be a revenue generating protocol without a token for your business, for your company? Absolutely, I think that's a consideration. Ultimately, there is always a consideration for token to basically allow
governance to take part in crucial decisions. And especially because if you don't do that then you like decentralizing the entity can allow it to be more censorship resistant as well. So we anticipate kind of a crackdown.
It may be better to turn it over to the community so that the community can make decisions and not the SEC. So that's one thing that's interesting about decentralizing and making it a Dow. Although, I mean, as we speak, I think these things are being
litigated right and it's unclear what the legal status of a Dow is right now. So these are all considerations. I don't want to say anything more than that, but the situations I think is evolving and
It's just, I think very unclear on the legal and what is legal and what can be done and what should be done. Ultimately, I think we'd like to turn it over to the community because that's kind of the spirit of decentralized finances that it's not run by centralized entity.
100% correct. And on that I know you said you didn't want to talk about specifics, but just generally speaking when you look at the current landscape of DeFi and you look at the perhaps increasing pressure from regulatory bodies, how do you see 2023 playing out for DeFi in general?
In general, I think regulation is a force that generally helps incumbents and hurts new entrants.
In some ways unfortunate, I think it will be maybe a little bit good to have just a bit of a consultant force in the ecosystem because
There is this kind of dispersion of talent throughout the ecosystem, a dispersion of liquidity. And I think ultimately regulation will come in and maybe consolidate that a little bit around the companies that are really trying to build and really
have the resources to compete in a regulated environment and I think we'll stop seeking so many kind of pump in them forks coming out who are not actually whose goal is not actually to build a great product and connect to users who want to make beneficial trades. Ultimately everything in finance about connecting
users who want to trade with each other, but who can't right now. And so I think we'll start to see more of a focus on that. And in some ways regulation will hurt that. In other ways it will help it because it will focus the beam of DeFi on more important and more
and you know, focused towards the user experiences.
Yeah, well put I think I think this is really interesting one for sure But you know, I'm here for the ride as we all are and so that's a good point just a good time to say shout out to everyone that's here in the space, you know, this has been a brutal year and here we are all still
paying attention to what's going on keeping abreast on the topics of on the new topics that are arising in the crypto sphere and so you know I see a few familiar faces like ZJK and Rony and obviously the OG sort of madmen and that
that are sitting here, there are a few faces that have been popped up consistently on these calls. So shout out to you guys just being in this space still as time's yet tough. I'm sure that it's going to come back around eventually when that is, it's yet to be determined. But in the meantime we do have
products like Nordicus that are building, that are shipping, that are creating the next evolution of DeFi. So if you're not already following Nordicus, do so. Nordicus buy, at Nordicus buy on Twitter, that's the one. And so, recommend that.
give max a follow anything else that we should be suggesting here. You might be jumping to Discord for Nordicus anything else max. Yeah, definitely jumping to Discord for updates as well.
I think we have a GM chat, so just pop a GM in there. So yeah, we'll check out risk harbor as well. Yeah, definitely check out risk harbor. And I think the thing I'd love to see too personally when I was clicking through the discord on the Nordicist discord.
it is fairly quiet at the moment. So I'd love to see the participation picking up there. I'd love to see more information and more clarity for people about how there's going to be the integrations between risk carbon Nordicus because I suspect there's
probably people that don't even realize that that's the case. And I think that's a really key point of difference that's worth mentioning. And the last thing I'd say too is if you have, and this is actually a question, do you have any roles that you're trying to fill within the company, of course, talent, this plan of
talent in this space, just in case of can we match the talent with the businesses that are building so do you have any need for any one at the moment? I don't know if we're looking to fill any open positions that I'm going to think we're we want pretty lean but
If you feel like it might be a good fit, feel free to reach out to me and DMs. And let me know. I think we're always looking for exceptional people, but I don't know if we have any specific roles open at the moment that we're looking to fill.
It's always worth putting a call out just in case. You never know who's in the space and you never know who's looking for jobs. I've certainly done a little bit of finishing in the background and help hook up a couple of projects with some new talent over the last sort of six to 12 months. So I'm always happy to do that where I can. Updates for everyone that's listening to Twitter Spaces, we've got the Yumel#
And Unlet is the next one. Unlet. I'm not sure how to say that, but we have them coming on in a few days' time. And then if you have any suggestions for who you'd like, or will command to have a conversation with over the coming months, definitely reach out. Let me know. Feel free to shoot me at DM if you haven't put it together yet. I'm Dr. Dostcoin. You can see my little#
just sit me a damn and say hey, reach out to these guys and have a conversation with them and I'll be happy to follow it up. With that being said, I think everything I wanted to cover is covered. So I'll just say thank you Max for your time, your energy, your input, your expertise, appreciate this conversation. And I'm really grateful. I hope that Nordicist does well in 2023 and beyond.
y'all some thanks for having me and this was great space thanks for everyone to ask questions and just chillin and hangin' out thanks down the excellent paper, farewell